August 5, 2026 • 58 mins
The area we call the American Bottom is a widening in the Mississippi River floodplain that runs some 70 miles in Illinois from Alton to the mouth of the Kaskaskia River just north of Chester. Just across the river from St. Louis, the area has a deep history. For thousands of years, Native Americans lived in and around the rich bottomland forests and wetlands. About a thousand years ago, one of the largest Native American cities sprung up practically overnight, the place we call Cahokia today. French colonists built communities at the southern end of the American Bottom, and Lewis and Clark based in the area before venturing west on the Missouri River. Before the Civil War, a small group of African Americans – some free, some who had recently escaped from enslavement – founded a little enclave called Freedom Village that later became Brooklyn (also known as Lovejoy). Brooklyn offered a sanctuary for generations of African Americans in an area defined by segregation and prejudice. By the twentieth century, companies eager to avoid the taxes and regulations of St. Louis bought land and founded municipalities they could dominate, then built large factories there: East St. Louis, Sauget, National City, East Alton. In the mid-1950s, organized crime got a foothold in and around Venice. As the American industrial economy declined, so did the communities in the American Bottom.
All that deep history, much of it long forgotten, caught the attention and lens of photographer Jennifer Colten. In this episode, I talk with her about her work photographing this area layered in sediment and history. After she describes her path to professional photography, we talk about the first project that pulled her into the American Bottom. We then talk about some of the history that is too easily overlooked, what catches her attention as she driving around, what remains of the original floodplain forest, how it feels to explore places many people are too afraid to visit, and some of the stories she’s telling with her photography. It was fascinating to learn about the American Bottom from the perspective of someone who has spent so much time documenting it in photographs.
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Jennifer Colten (00:00):
It was it was it was a number of things, as
you said, a really complicatedhistory, and I mean, still
unfolding for me now, 10 yearslater, you know. I'm learning
new things and I'm having newideas. But initially, yeah, it
was the history. I mean,certainly the history of of
Native American presence herethat is all but you know unseen,
(00:21):
and surprisingly, 10 years ago,I mean, a little bit more known
now because of, I think, alittle more cultural awareness
and and a little more attentionto Cahokia Mounds State Park.
But even still, it is a regionthat has all of this History
(00:42):
that is suppressed or unnoticedor intentionally disregarded,
and that was super interestingto me that you know the why of
and that I knew I had lived inSt. Louis for, you know, a long
(01:02):
time, and I did not know any ofthis, and it was right there.
Dean Klinkenberg (01:29):
Welcome to the Mississippi Valley Traveler
podcast. I'm Dean Klinkenberg,and I've been exploring the deep
history and rich culture of thepeople and places along
America's greatest river, theMississippi, since 2007. Join me
as I go deep into the charactersand places along the river, and
occasionally wander into otherstories from the Midwest and
(01:49):
other rivers. Read the episodeshow notes and get more
information on the Mississippiat
MississippiValleyTraveler.com.
Let's get going.
Welcome to episode 81 of theMississippi Valley Traveler
podcast. Well, in this episodetoday, we're going to dive deep
into a very specific part of theMississippi River Valley. An
area that's known as theAmerican Bottom. It's a stretch
(02:12):
of 60 to 70 miles on theIllinois side of the river,
directly across from St. Louis,basically running from Alton
down to near Chester, Illinois.
Today, it's mostly farmland andsome smaller towns, and and
frankly, some towns that arestruggling quite a bit,
especially the ones closer tothe river. But man, this area
(02:32):
has a surprisingly big history,from the 1000s of years of
Native American communities tothe more modern era when it
became a corridor of heavyindustry when large factories
went up. Basically, a wholestring of single industry towns
were founded, mostly to get awayfrom taxes and regulation on the
(02:54):
Missouri side of the river. Sothey founded places like East
Alton, National City, East St.
Louis, a whole bunch of placesalong the river that were
basically founded by singlecompanies.
There's also some organizedcrime history, particularly
around Venice, Illinois. If yougo to
(03:14):
MississippiValleyTraveler.com/Venice,you can read more about that.
And as I said today, it'snot-it's an area a lot of people
in St. Louis would probably notconsider going to because there
is so much urban decay andpopulation loss. A lot of it
looks kind of run down,especially where the communities
are. But it's just got thisreally fascinating history, and
(03:37):
I'm not the only one who thinksso. Today's guest is Jennifer
Colten, who is a professionalphotographer, and she spent a
lot of time over the AmericanBottom documenting the area as
it looks today. So we, I had heron the podcast to talk about
this, her impressions of thisarea. We begin by talking about
her path to becoming aprofessional photographer, and
(03:59):
we do a little geeking out aboutdigital photography and our
transition to that from film.
And then we kind of talk abouthow she got interested in the
American Bottom, the work thatshe has done documenting the
landscape and history, some ofthe things that really got her
attention. We talk about thecontrast that's really striking
just across the river betweenthe old mounds of Cahokia and a
(04:21):
new mound that has sprung upthat is basically a giant trash heap.
Jennifer Colten (07:18):
Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you for inviting
me.
Dean Klinkenberg (07:21):
Yeah, I always like kind of start off to learn
more about how people kind ofgot on the path to their current
careers, and how did you getinvolved in the on the path to
becoming a professionalphotographer?
Jennifer Colten (07:34):
Well, it's a long time ago when I was in
college, midway through college,I really kind of stumbled upon
photography. I took a weekendworkshop class, and it was like
instantly-you know-it was aninstant thing that I knew that
that that was a path that Iwanted to pursue. And I finished
(07:59):
my college degree while I tookclasses in photography in
college, I finished my degree inEnglish literature, but then I
went to graduate school forphotography, and it was there
that it was like I was testingto see, you know, testing myself
to see whether this passion ofmine could potentially be
(08:21):
something I could follow throughon, and and that kind of led to
some teaching and and just a wayof being able to incorporate and
make a living, incorporate thethe passion of making the work
with making a living.
Dean Klinkenberg (08:38):
So, well, there's so many different
directions I suppose, a personcould go with an interest in
photography. So, in those earlyyears, what was your interest?
What did you do to kind of whatinterested you professionally,
and how did you make a livingfrom it?
Jennifer Colten (08:54):
Well, I started. It was I was very
lucky. I started teaching whileI was in graduate school, and I
didn't initially think I wouldbe interested in teaching, but I
really liked it. But all at thesame time, I was I was printing
for some professionalphotographers, you know, some
(09:15):
darkroom work, and because Ireally loved that part of the
process too, and I tried my handat a little wedding photography
and graduation photography, andI realized that I was not
interested in in that workpersonally. The business aspect
of it was not something I reallywas good at or wanted to invest
(09:37):
my my time in. So, yeah, the thelab work I really loved, and the
teaching I really loved, andthose were the two avenues. And
I was lucky enough to get ateaching job here in St. Louis
right out of graduate school, sokind of charted some path there.
Dean Klinkenberg (09:56):
So I'm I'm going to make an assumption that
perhaps when you started yourcareer, you were we were all
probably still mostly workingwith actual film and not with
digital photography.
Jennifer Colten (10:07):
Correct. Yes.
Dean Klinkenberg (10:09):
So, what was that transition like from you?
Like, were you kind of an earlyadopter to the digital
photography? Did it take you alittle while? I was slow. It
took. I resisted it for a while.
But what was that like for you?
Jennifer Colten (10:23):
I don't know that I was necessarily slow to
adopting digital. I think thatfor me, working digitally, I
mean, I was very satisfiedworking with film, and you know,
facilities at school and allaround were really attuned to
film at the time, even colorfilm, and I was working in color
(10:45):
from the beginning. It took mehaving a project that, or an
idea that kind of lended itselfto digital to get me introduced
to working digitally, and then,of course, eventually, color
digital tools and printing andpapers and all of that were just
(11:08):
so much better. And then youknow the film kind of fell away.
And even if I use film now, youknow that I will scan and then
print digitally. So yeah, forme, it was like the tool, the
project had to dictate the tool,and that's how I found my way
into digital.
Dean Klinkenberg (11:29):
Did did digital photography change your
approach to photography at all?
Jennifer Colten (11:36):
Well, that first project was one in which
my and my kids. I should alsosay my kids were very young at
the time, and so finding andcarving out some time to make
photographs was hard. So I wasmaking photographs at night, and
that early digital work wasactually something I have not
followed through on since. But Iwas making, I was making video
(11:56):
and then taking video grabs andthen digitally manipulating
them. So that's kind of it'sit's a it's a funny way into
digital, but that was whathappened for me. But in terms of
sort of more directly to yourquestion about did my esthetic
change or the way I approachsubject matter change? No, I
(12:19):
would say no. I really workdigitally very much the way I
work with or worked with filmanalog in that you know I'm I'm
I'm interested in a slow or akind of slow process of
observation. I almost alwayshave my camera on a tripod, and
(12:41):
I walk through the landscape,you know, the way one would
either with a view camera ormaybe maybe not a view camera,
but in a in a slower process. SoI really love that considered
compositional approach, andhaving the camera on the tripod
(13:02):
slows you down, of course. So Iwould say no, except for that
early introduction that kind ofgot me over the hump to work
digitally, and was kind of bynecessity in my life at the
time.
Dean Klinkenberg (13:15):
Yeah, I feel like I was kind of forced into
it. I'm glad that I eventuallydid, but I think the the moment
that really turned things aroundfor me was we traveled to
Southeast Asia for a few weeks,and I think I brought I don't
know like two dozen rolls offilm with me, something crazy
like that, and I had to getabout half of them developed
about halfway through the tripand mailed those home, and the
(13:37):
logistics of the having a filmcamera on a longer trip. It's
like I'm not sure this is reallythe best way to handle this, and
I think digital photography wasreally just beginning to get
better, and the the sensors weregetting better, producing higher
resolution images. But that thatmoment was a pretty good
education. But I like the wayyou describe the the slow,
(14:00):
measured approach to things. Idon't think it would be very
practical to carry a tripodaround with me when I'm
traveling around the country fora few few weeks.
Jennifer Colten (14:11):
Yeah, it takes some getting used to. I mean,
when I was doing most of mywork, you know, even even my
film photography, I guess Itoggled back and forth between
working with a tripod, sometimesworking with view camera, and
then you know I had a camerathat I I forever regret selling,
(14:35):
and it was a beautiful mediumformat camera that had great
quality and hand holdable. Andyou know when I switched to
thinking about making largerprints and really trying to
refine my digital capability sothat I could have a print that I
(14:57):
was really happy with, I movedto working with the tripod, and
that took some adjustmentbecause, like I said, you you do
have to slow down and and you dohave to resist some certain kind
of forced, I don't know what howto describe, but a little bit
(15:18):
stiffness. You know, I don't. Iwant to. I want to have the
compositions really wellcomposed, but not stiff the way
a tripod can sometimes lead youto make photographs. So it was a
little adjustment there.
Dean Klinkenberg (15:35):
Well, well, let's let's transition into more
contemporary work then. You gotinterested at some point in
documenting the American Bottom.
So, when when did that happen?
What caught your attention aboutthe American Bottom? Before we
do that, maybe you can just tellus a little bit about what the
American Bottom is, where it is.
Jennifer Colten (15:53):
Sure. Yes. So the American Bottom is. So I'm.
I live in St. Louis, and I mean,you're interested in the
Mississippi River. You know,people probably know where St.
Louis is located, and that theMississippi River divides
Missouri and Illinois. So theAmerican Bottom is just across
(16:15):
the Mississippi River from St.
Louis, stretching along theriver, well, bordered from the
river and the bluffs, andstretching from about Alton,
Illinois, 65 to 70 miles to thesouth along the river to the
mouth of the Kaskaskia River.
(16:38):
And it is a place that reallyencompasses so much, like
physical and so much history andso much sort of physical
material, and I'm sure we'llwe'll talk about some of that.
But that's where the AmericanBottom is kind of defined and
located.
Dean Klinkenberg (16:57):
So then, how did it catch your attention?
Jennifer Colten (17:00):
So a couple of colleagues at the time of mine
who have now become you knowdear friends and collaborators,
Jesse Vogler and MatthewFluharty. They were both at the
time in 2015, I guess it was. Wewere all at Wash U together, and
(17:22):
they had, they were looking fora photographer to contribute to
their research, which is writingand you know other kinds of
archival research about the theregion. And I had in you know we
were all in and around the SamFox School. I mentioned Jesse
(17:44):
was part of the LandscapeArchitecture Program. Maybe I
didn't mention that, but he was,and Matt was in the American
Culture Studies department, andwe you know from very very early
on, almost immediate, werealized that you know we had a
(18:05):
bond, we had sympathetic kind ofattention to the landscape and
to history and cultural topics,and so they were the ones that
introduced me to the AmericanBottom, and it was like it blew
me away. Like it was instant.
Like this is a place that'sliterally been in my backyard,
(18:26):
in my view, and I haven't seenit. So.
Dean Klinkenberg (18:34):
Do you remember like exactly what was
it about the American Bottomthat made that blew you away?
The complicated history, thethere's so many layers to that.
Like, what what sort ofresonated with you at first?
Jennifer Colten (18:47):
Well, it was it was it was a number of things,
as you said, a reallycomplicated history, and I mean,
it's still unfolding for me now10 years later, you know, I'm
learning new things and I'mhaving new ideas. But initially,
yeah, it was the history. Imean, certainly the history of
(19:09):
of Native American presence herethat is all but you know unseen.
And surprisingly, 10 years ago,I mean, a little bit more known
now because of I think a littlemore cultural awareness and and
a little more attention toCahokia Mounds State Park, but
even still, it is a region thathas all of this history that is
(19:34):
suppressed or unnoticed orintentionally disregarded, and
that was super interesting tome. That that you know what the
why of that, the why and the howof that. So and that I knew I
had lived in St. Louis for youknow a long time and I did not
know any of this and it wasright there. So I was really
(19:58):
interested in all of that and ofcourse both Jesse and Matt and
their you know they they wererelatively new in exploring the
American Bottom too, but theyhad a little bit more
understanding and research andarchival research and literary
people who had written about andarcheologists. So they were
(20:22):
introducing me to a lot of theseideas and then places, so yeah,
it was it was the history thatis so like unseen.
Dean Klinkenberg (20:32):
There are so many stories to tell about that
area, and.
Jennifer Colten (20:34):
So many.
Dean Klinkenberg (20:35):
So many different layers to those
stories, as you said. So, sowhen you first got started then,
what were some of the earlyplaces that you photographed
when you were getting going withthem?
Jennifer Colten (20:47):
Well, for sure, the the mounds, and you know,
both the mounds that are theNative American mounds, either
mounds that we can see, andthose that have that, or the
sites where the mounds were, youknow, places like like you know,
highways have dismantled. Youknow, highway infrastructure has
(21:11):
dismantled big mound complexes.
And also, and with the work thatJesse and I do around the
mounds, the Significant andInsignificant Mounds Project. We
are looking at those NativeAmerican mounds and the
contemporary 20th, 21st centurymounds, which are like the slag
(21:32):
heaps and the landfills and andthose kinds of things that are
literally adjacent to or on topof the Native American land and
mound space. So that was thebeginning but you can't look at
those, and you can't look at thethe the history of the mounds
and their erasure withoutlooking at the towns that are
(21:55):
you know all the municipalitiesthat are just adjacent and
within those spaces. So it wasall of that all at once. And
later came some of the the thethe work that I'm I think about
as it's all it's allinterrelated. But later came the
(22:18):
work that I think about is moresort of ecologically centered.
As I started photographingbetween the levee and the river,
and learning because, of course,the levee infrastructure also
displaced a lot. You know, evenas it was protecting, it was
(22:38):
also displacing a lot of things,so I started wandering between
the levee and the river space,and that's a whole entire
different kind of feel to thatthat landscape.
Dean Klinkenberg (22:54):
Why don't we start with that since this is a
program about the river.
Jennifer Colten (22:57):
Sure.
Dean Klinkenberg (22:58):
What did you encounter when you started
exploring that area?
Jennifer Colten (23:02):
So, and I also like like we were just saying,
everything is interrelated andoverlaps. So, I already had been
photographing in that area. Infact, some of the first the the
photographs I made were of amound that resides between the
levee and the river, anindustrial mound. Or it's it's
(23:26):
residue from the washings ofcoal so, and I so I was already
in that space, but then in well,in 2020 during COVID, I you know
wasn't talking to people orgoing into municipal buildings,
and I was wandering around a lotby myself. Which I do anyway but
(23:48):
it was even more, obviouslymore. And I started talking
about this place between thelevee and the river, and it
became this defined space that Iwould go to, and the area is
like pretty much where the placewhere I go is pretty much well,
(24:08):
it's animals, huntersoccasionally, and me, you know,
and maybe some people on dirtbikes occasionally, but nobody
is there is the point, and it'swild. The vegetation is wild,
and it's changing all the time.
Whether it's changing because ofweather conditions, or flooding,
(24:29):
or whatever just happens tovegetation over the course of a
year, and I got reallyinterested in just being in
that. It was a strange placethat filled me with a kind of
peace during the pandemic, and Iwas just going very regularly.
(24:49):
And all of a sudden, I was like,"Wow, this is this is an amazing
kind of landscape that is may beindicative of what happens when
nature goes wild." I mean, thatsounds you know. I don't like
using this this this kind oflanguage. Nature, what is that?
(25:11):
We're all nature. Wild, what isthat? You know, that's also. But
it was a very compellinglandscape to to watch over time
and across seasons, and sothat's what I was doing there,
or and still am, in fact.
Dean Klinkenberg (26:31):
Interesting, yeah. It it seems like it's one
(27:40):
of those areas that, like, somany of the spaces right next to
the Mississippi have sort ofbeen abandoned by most people,
especially where there's a talllevee like that. Interesting,
like that would have been anarea if we're talking like
around Venice and the McKinleyBridge at one time there would
have been shantyboat communitiesthere. There would have been
river communities of you knowfolks living there that we don't
(28:02):
allow anymore. So, and afterthat, I guess really there
weren't that many people whowere invested in spending any
time down there.
Jennifer Colten (28:11):
Yeah, yeah, sure. No, and and right, right
around Venice and and thebridge, there was I don't know
if you know of Kerr Island,which was, you know, a place
where people would go and andand recreate and you know have
(28:31):
have time there and maybe evenlive there. Although I'm not
positive about that, but doesnot exist anymore.
Dean Klinkenberg (28:38):
Right. One of the things I was curious about,
like since you've explored theAmerican Bottom so much, you
partially answered it here. Butyeah, historically, before
development happened, theAmerican Bottom was mostly
bottomland forests and wetlands,marshes, that kind of thing. Are
(28:58):
there places you've discoveredwhere there remnants of that old
those old ecosystems, other thanthe spot along the levee that
you were just describing?
Jennifer Colten (29:09):
You know, it's hard. I mean, every the entirety
of the American Bottom is awetland, right? And we as humans
try to control that, and webuild, and we you know, we we do
all kinds of things to to keepthat wetland at bay. But I think
I was told by somebodyrelatively recently that it's
(29:32):
only six, I and I I don't knowif this is true, this is what
they told me, six inches. Youdig six inches and you start to
reach the sand that then soonbecomes the the water table,
which is incredible. That islike nothing. So whether that is
accurate, the six inches isaccurate or not, the fact that
(29:54):
this all wetland is is verytrue. So I cannot say that
there's a place. That I'veidentified that I go to that
truly is as there's nothinguntouched. that I've found. You
know, there are places,especially in high water, that
(30:16):
look like they might it mighthave looked back in in in the
day, and there are places thatI've been taken to where people
tell me, you know, decades agothey used to be able to walk
from their homes to the river tofish or to swim or you know to
(30:37):
do whatever. But I can't saythat that I know of any place.
Dean Klinkenberg (30:47):
Right, right.
I mean, I don't certainlythere's no place that's
untouched. You know, there's theHorseshoe Lake area is a remnant
channel of the MississippiRiver.
Jennifer Colten (30:56):
Right. Very interesting. Yeah.
Dean Klinkenberg (30:58):
Right. We wouldn't recommend anybody go
for a swim in it, though. It'sthe water quality there, not not
very good.
Jennifer Colten (31:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, Horseshoe Lake is
super interesting. I mean, ityou know, it's a was part of
meander, and and it it now sortof, yeah, it is, it is a oxbow.
what it's called. So, yeah, itsecology and its history and its
(31:26):
age is really interesting.
Dean Klinkenberg (31:31):
Hey, Dean Klinkenberg here interrupting
myself. Just wanted to remindyou that if you'd like to know
more about the MississippiRiver, check out my books. I
write the Mississippi ValleyTraveler guidebooks for people
who want to get to know theMississippi better. I also wrote
'The Wild Mississippi,' a guidethat goes deep into the complex
(31:51):
ecosystems supported by theMississippi, the plant and
animal life that depends onthem, and where you can go to
experience it all. If you likefiction, check out my Frank
Dodge mystery series. Each bookis set in places along the
Mississippi River. My newestbook is a travel memoir called
Slowboats, Chicken Busses, andthe Radical Choice to Trust the
(32:12):
World.' The book explores a
simple question (32:16):
"What happens when you stop asking What if
something goes wrong, and startasking, what if everything goes
right?" Find out more atdeanklinkenberg.com/bettersafethansorry.
Well, there's so many otherlayers to the history of this
area. Like probably what a lotof people might be a little more
(32:38):
familiar with is the industrialhistory, late 19th century into
the 20th century. Tell us alittle bit about that era of
history in the American Bottom.
Jennifer Colten (32:50):
Well, you know something that I talk about a
lot is that, and I think about alot is that St. Louis and the
sort of development andeconomies of St. Louis owe a
huge debt to the east side, toEast St. Louis, you know,
(33:12):
National City, which we weretalking about earlier, Sauget,
you know, these these theseplaces that are directly across
from St. Louis, where a lot ofindustry set up or was
established there, because theregulations were much more lax
(33:35):
on the Illinois side of theriver. So St. Louis could, you
know, St. Louis benefited fromand on the backs of those
municipalities in or on the eastside.
Dean Klinkenberg (33:50):
It was basically a series of company
towns, right? Like there are alot of these municipalities were
founded by a single company thatwanted to build a giant factory
within the footprint of thatcity, so you had steel plants in
Granite City.
Jennifer Colten (34:03):
Yep.
Dean Klinkenberg (34:04):
You had the stockyards and meat processing
plants in National City.
Jennifer Colten (34:09):
Yep.
Dean Klinkenberg (34:09):
Aluminum processing. Then up and around
Alton, glassworks and theammunition plant. But most of
these were like part. I thinkwhat people don't always
understand is what it means tobe a company town for these
places. They were they werefounded to serve the needs of
those individual companies, notto create sustainable
(34:30):
communities over the long term.
Jennifer Colten (34:32):
Yeah, 100%.
Dean Klinkenberg (34:33):
Right. So yeah, something you'd like to
add to that.
Jennifer Colten (34:37):
No, I mean that was totally accurate, and you
know places like Wood River andthe the Shell Oil Corporation
and and others that youmentioned. You know Monsanto
also in Sauget and you knowthese communities still and of
course all of the the industrythat was in East Saint Louis and
(35:01):
Granite City. I mean, it it itwas it was vast and it was
productive. You know, it waslike, and yet there was a huge
environmental impact on thepeople, their health. You know,
and and it's complicated becausetheir livelihoods are all
attached to working in thesefactories. And today, there are
(35:26):
still, I mean, there are stillpeople living in all of these
towns, of course. And there areremnants of a lot of the
environmental conditions. Youcan see it in in the landscape,
and you know I'm reallyinterested in in the
contemporary contemporarypeople's lives. There there's a
(35:50):
lot of complexity in thisquestion about the relationship
between the industry and thepeople who worked in these
factories, and their theirfamily members who worked in the
factories, and and the socialand environmental conditions
that that that just sort of arepart and parcel of living and
(36:15):
working in these environments.
It's it's not simple. I mean,and and yeah, it is all very
complicated, and it reallyrequires stepping back and
trying not to impose judgment,which is something that you know
I think a lot about withphotography in particular and
the history of photography,which can be a very and
(36:39):
historically has been a veryextractive medium. So yeah, a
lot of things. I mean, just inthat question, you touch off a
lot of things that I think aboutall the time.
Dean Klinkenberg (36:55):
So part of your work is going to the
communities. You must you get achance to talk with people who
live there, and I will say a lotof people probably drive through
these areas and are probablyglad. You know, probably are are
crossing their fingers andhoping their cars don't break
down because they're afraid ofsome of these communities
because they they're poor. Youknow, many of them are are very
poor at this point in time. Whenthe people that you've met
(37:17):
there, though, like how do theymake sense? From what you can
tell, how do they make sense ofthe state of their community
today, given the history ofthose communities?
Jennifer Colten (37:28):
You know, from my experience, well, let me
speak first to this sort ofdrive through and hope you don't
have any kind of dangeroussituation. I I have found that
well, I'm not naive, and if Ihave intuition about something,
(37:49):
I will pay attention. I'm notnaive to think that you know, as
a person, a woman, a smallwoman, somebody you know walking
around with the camera that I amnot being watched, and you know,
for any kinds of reasons, youknow, a camera is definitely
something people are payingattention to. I I have not
(38:11):
encountered danger, and in fact,most often people are either
curious or and just want to knowwhat I'm doing, which I'm very
wanting to talk to people andand and and share with them and
have them share whatever theywant to share with me.
(38:31):
I had a student who is from EastSt. Louis, and we did a little
bit of collaborative worktogether, and she had and her
family goes way back in East St.
Louis, and she has huge pride inwhere she lives. And she told me
that she feels that it is a verypeaceful place. And we had spent
(38:52):
a good amount of time togetherin East St. Louis, and she was
super generous, sharing a lot ofher experiences and places that
were important to her, and thatreally, I mean, it made a big
impression on me for a lot ofreasons. Partly because of this
dispelling of all of the mythsof East St. Louis, that it could
also be and is a place that ispeaceful. So I started seeing
(39:18):
things through her eyes and herexperience in that way, and I
understand it now having spentnow you know a couple of years
really dedicating in East St.
Louis. So you know people arepeople, and people have lives
(39:41):
that they're living, and andthey're making their way in the
world. And often people are havea kind of I don't know
resilience is an overused word,but a kind of fortitude and
commitment and pride in wherethey're from and the stories
(40:04):
that they have been told bytheir own family members, and I
really feel like places hold alot of that. And so people
share-that's my experience-ispeople share all of that kind of
stuff that dispels the mythsthat get told over and over
again that cause people to drivequickly through some of the the
(40:30):
you know municipalities.
Dean Klinkenberg (40:33):
So in your work then, do you tend to
photograph places or people or alittle bit of both, or what's
your approach then todocumenting the American Bottom?
Jennifer Colten (40:47):
So almost well, primarily and really almost
exclusively, it is it is theland and the infrastructure and
the you know residues ofwhatever the river has brought.
But I am slowly. I have beenthinking for a long time about.
Well, I should say before I talkabout photographing people,
(41:10):
people have always been veryimportant to the making of the
photographs of the places andthe landscapes. Partly because
people, obviously, they'remaking an imprint on on these
landscapes in all kinds of ways,just by by their presence. And
I'm really interested in the wayland and landscapes hold a
(41:35):
certain kind of memory of whathas occurred in those or on
those places, so the people andand and people often tell me
either through stories ortelling me places, suggesting to
me to places to go. People havebeen really important to how
(41:55):
I've moved through and whereI've moved through in the
landscape. But relativelyrecently, I've been wondering
whether or how I might includepeople's physical bodies and
presence in the landscape. I'mnot really sure where that's
going. It's not my usualimpulse, and it's not
(42:19):
particularly easy for me, butI'm trying that just to see
whether that's a a piece of thestory that I want to incorporate
back in, or or incorporate in ornot.
Dean Klinkenberg (42:32):
Yeah, interesting. You mentioned
earlier too. This kind oftouches on this. I think that
photography, particularly inplaces like this, has often kind
of been extractive. Can you saya little bit more about what
that means to you as aphotographer, and then how do
you document these places as aphotographer without being
extractive?
Jennifer Colten (42:53):
So you know the history of photography, and
especially like documentaryphotography, is one where, I
mean, inherent in the medium,you're, the photographer is
observing, is you know even inthe language, taking the
picture, capturing thephotograph, that kind of thing.
(43:14):
There is there is a kind ofdistance that traditional
photography has used in order tobe able to observe and to record
information and people andplaces. There's also a history
(43:38):
in documentary photography ofphotographers either going to
places or photographing peoplethat they are that are not their
community and their theirhomeland, and I'm really
sensitive to not doing that. Imean, I'm I'm aware of when a
(44:06):
you know when when I'm walkingaround with a camera. Here's to
your second part of thequestions, like what's my
strategy? This is part of why Ihave the camera on a tripod. I
want very much to be present andvisible and not hiding anything
that I'm doing, my intentions ormy own self in those places.
(44:31):
And my students laugh at me, butI admonish them that they should
never ever take a picture fromtheir car. I mean, I you know, I
firmly believe that if you aregoing to know something about a
place, you need to be there, andso there's that part of it. And
(44:53):
then if you're taking aphotograph out of your car
window, you really are takingsomething from those that
community or those placeswithout some kind of exchange,
and I think that this kind ofexchange is really important.
If I make photographs of people,I always go back and give them
(45:18):
some prints. I also have a partof my practice is to bring
photographs that have been madein these areas and give them as
gifts or you know as offeringsto public places in the area,
(45:40):
like libraries or post officesor village halls. So in many,
not many, but a good handful nowof places around the American
Bottom, I've given framedphotographs that they, you know,
that that are things that peoplewho come into those public
spaces might see something ofthemself, so this idea of
(46:03):
exchange is really important asa way to counter this
extraction, because thesestories and these places are not
mine. You know, there I I I'mnot I'm not even from the
Midwest. You know, I've livedhere a long time, but I'm from
St. Louis, and I'm I'm not fromthese places. But this kind of
(46:25):
exchange and thisacknowledgement, like I I'm
seeing you, and I'm wanting tocelebrate, and I'm wanting to
offer something back.
Dean Klinkenberg (46:37):
Well, and it sounds like those interactions
too, as you said before, likeyou learn about the places in a
way that you would not haveotherwise if you just stayed in
your car and took pictures. Youlearned about the quiet in East
St. Louis, and it changed theway that you approached
photographing the place thentoo.
Jennifer Colten (46:54):
100% yes.
Dean Klinkenberg (46:58):
What are I know we're an audio podcast. I
can post some pictures or a linkto your your website with photos
too. But when you think back onthe 10 years or so you've been
photographing the AmericanBottom, are there a couple of
images in particular that reallystand out for you, or a few?
Jennifer Colten (47:19):
Well, that is a really hard question. I mean,
yes, and it's a hard questionbecause I I feel like to know
the American Bottom, to knowthese multiple kinds of of
(47:39):
conditions that exist in andhistories and features that
exist in the American Bottom isis it's nothing is singular. So
if I think about, for instance,you know the mounds, the the the
Significant and Insignificantmounds, you can't look at at
(48:01):
least for this project, and andat least to understand some of
the complexity of the region,you can't look at a Native
American mound without lookingat the a landfill or you know a
slag heap because they docoexist In the landscape. I
(48:23):
photographed in 2018. A 2018,yeah, summer of 2018, a tornado
blew through and and blew down aradio tower right behind. It was
right behind the Milam Landfill,and I I found it the day after
it came down, which wasincredible because what I was
(48:47):
and it was it blew my mind. Istarted photographing. It was
massive, the steel structurethat twisted and fell in the
tornado in an open field. So I Istarted photographing it, and
for the next year and a half,photograph for probably a couple
times a week, and so that islike to look at those
(49:15):
photographs requires themultiple because I go back,
return over a long period oftime, and I was observing all of
the changes in the weather, inme, in the vegetation, and so
for sure with each of theprojects, I could pick out maybe
(49:36):
a signature or a couple of youknow images that might deliver
the idea behind that project,but I feel like the complexity
of the American Bottom is sodeep that they kind of needs
more than than just one or two.
Dean Klinkenberg (49:57):
Right. So how.
This may be a hard question toanswer, but how do you think we
can be more thoughtful as we gothrough these landscapes,
particularly like the AmericanBottom that most St. Louisans
are probably familiar with, iffor no other reason that they've
probably driven through it adozen or more times? How can we
maybe be a little morethoughtful about understanding
(50:21):
what we're actually drivingthrough, or what that area
means?
Jennifer Colten (50:28):
Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, you know,
most people are not going tohave the time, or take the time,
or have, you know, the kind ofdeep interest to spend a decade
and more on learning about aplace. There was a project in
East St. Louis too. It was partof the commemoration, the
(50:55):
100-year commemoration of theEast St. Louis program they call
it, you know the the racemassacre, and the project there
are plaques or there there'ssignage. These they're sacred
(51:15):
sites and they're positionedaround East St. Louis at
specific places that have thathave historic significance to
that race massacre, and it has alittle bit of text, and it marks
that spot. And I think thatefforts to acknowledge the
(51:41):
histories because they are sounseen and so complicated, these
are important. And of course,people can go to Cahokia Mounds
and, you know, visit visit themounds and visit the
interpretive center and all ofthat. And there's history there,
but I think that that thesethese signs that are around East
(52:04):
St. Louis are the kind of ideathat I think you know allows
people to guide themselves andguide a kind of understanding
about a complexity or a piece ofhistory about the landscape.
Dean Klinkenberg (52:19):
It's always so striking to me when I'm coming
into town, especially onInterstate 55, and off to the
left you have Monk's Mound, andthen off to the right you have a
giant garbage mound.
Jennifer Colten (52:30):
Yeah, two mounds.
Dean Klinkenberg (52:33):
Right, two. I guess if even if people were to
stop and think for a minute, whywas this one built? Why was this
one built? What does that sayabout these two different
societies or cultures. Yeah,that might be an interesting
thought process to go through aswell.
Jennifer Colten (52:47):
Yeah, 100% In fact, that particular adjacency
and confusion is exactly whatinspired Jesse's first thinking
about this, you know,Significant and Insignificant
Mounds, and because, as he tellsit, you know, when he came into
(53:07):
town, he thought he mistakenlythought Milam was Cahokia
mounds. And he's not the onlyone. Other people have have said
that, you know, just in passingto me, and or asked that as a
question, and yeah, it doesexactly as you said. It raises
this question (53:26):
like, how how did this come to be?
Dean Klinkenberg (53:31):
Absolutely.
Jennifer Colten (53:32):
Yeah.
Dean Klinkenberg (53:33):
Well, you've had a few years under your belt
doing this. What stories are youstill chasing?
Jennifer Colten (53:39):
Yeah, I saw that on your on your list of
questions. You know, I mean, inaddition to just continuing to
explore some of the places, andit's important to me to explore
over long periods of time theseplaces that I already have
identified because they change,and I'm also really interested
(54:04):
in how can you find new ways ofknowing or understanding a
place, even when it's familiar.
But in addition to that, I'malso really thinking about how
to show an audience, or youknow, show people who live here
parts of the geography that youknow is a maybe an alternative
(54:30):
kind of mapping. So, like forinstance, there's a route that
the Native Americans would walkfrom Cahokia to the river, six
mile, about six miles in inlength. And I'm really
interested and have been playingwith walking and photographing
(54:51):
that route as a way to map mapwith the body and map with an
alternative kind ofdocumentation that ancient
route. It's it's CollinsvilleRoad now, and then it also moves
into East St. Louis, which isCollinsville Road in East St.
Louis, and then winds its way inand to the river. So those kinds
(55:13):
of ideas are really interestingto me, and then I mentioned
earlier, I'm I'm attempting toget over a little trepidation of
and and difficulty of of makingportraits, and I don't know
where that will lead, but youknow we'll see.
Dean Klinkenberg (55:38):
Yeah, it sounds like a great project to
tackle, though it sounds like agood direction to go.
Jennifer Colten (55:44):
Yeah, thank you, thank you.
Dean Klinkenberg (55:45):
Well, we are out of time, unfortunately. This
has gone very fast. Where, ifpeople are interested in
following your work, where wouldyou suggest they go?
Jennifer Colten (55:56):
Sure, they can go to my website. I've just
recently redone my website,which is exciting. I worked with
with a great person who helpedme design and and implement a
new website. New work is onthere, so that's
jennifercolten.com, and also onInstagram. Oh, what is it? I
(56:20):
think it's j_colten. So those, Ion my Instagram, I almost
exclusively post about theAmerican Bottom. I don't use it
for other kinds of things. Itreally, and I used to post, It
was my practice to post onephotograph every day as a as a
(56:43):
way of, you know, developing a akind of rhythm and a practice,
and almost all of thosephotographs are made with the
cell phone as distinct from thecamera. So those are just a few
things about like someconstraints I put on the
Instagram, and the website hasit's almost exclusively American
(57:05):
Bottom because I have that manyinterrelated projects. There are
a couple on there that are arenot American Bottom that I'm
still you know still interestedin. But yeah, those are the two
best places. And I supposeanybody could contact me. You
can contact me through mywebsite. My email is on my
website.
Dean Klinkenberg (57:26):
Fantastic. I will post links to those in the
show notes. And thanks. Thankyou so much for making time to
talk with me today. This was afantastic discussion. I really
appreciate
Jennifer Colten (57:37):
Yeah. Thanks so much for, yeah, for inviting me.
It was great.
Dean Klinkenberg (57:44):
Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this
episode, subscribe to the serieson your favorite podcast app so
you don't miss out on futureepisodes. I offer the podcast
for free, but when you supportthe show with a few bucks
through Patreon to help keep theprogram going, just go to
Patreon.com/deanklinkenberg. Ifyou want to know more about the
(58:04):
Mississippi River, check out mybooks. I write the Mississippi
Valley Traveler guidebooks forpeople who want to get to know
the Mississippi better. I alsowrite the Frank Dodge Mystery
Series that's set in placesalong the river. Find them
wherever books are sold. TheMississippi Valley Traveler
podcast is written and producedby me, Dean Klinkenberg.
Original music by Noah Fence.
See you next time.
It was it was it was a number of things, as
you said, a really complicatedhistory, and I mean, still
unfolding for me now, 10 yearslater, you know. I'm learning
new things and I'm having newideas. But initially, yeah, it
was the history. I mean,certainly the history of of
Native American presence herethat is all but you know unseen,
(00:21):
and surprisingly, 10 years ago,I mean, a little bit more known
now because of, I think, alittle more cultural awareness
and and a little more attentionto Cahokia Mounds State Park.
But even still, it is a regionthat has all of this History
(00:42):
that is suppressed or unnoticedor intentionally disregarded,
and that was super interestingto me that you know the why of
and that I knew I had lived inSt. Louis for, you know, a long
(01:02):
time, and I did not know any ofthis, and it was right there.
Dean Klinkenberg (01:29):
Welcome to the Mississippi Valley Traveler
podcast. I'm Dean Klinkenberg,and I've been exploring the deep
history and rich culture of thepeople and places along
America's greatest river, theMississippi, since 2007. Join me
as I go deep into the charactersand places along the river, and
occasionally wander into otherstories from the Midwest and
(01:49):
other rivers. Read the episodeshow notes and get more
information on the Mississippiat
MississippiValleyTraveler.com.
Let's get going.
Welcome to episode 81 of theMississippi Valley Traveler
podcast. Well, in this episodetoday, we're going to dive deep
into a very specific part of theMississippi River Valley. An
area that's known as theAmerican Bottom. It's a stretch
(02:12):
of 60 to 70 miles on theIllinois side of the river,
directly across from St. Louis,basically running from Alton
down to near Chester, Illinois.
Today, it's mostly farmland andsome smaller towns, and and
frankly, some towns that arestruggling quite a bit,
especially the ones closer tothe river. But man, this area
(02:32):
has a surprisingly big history,from the 1000s of years of
Native American communities tothe more modern era when it
became a corridor of heavyindustry when large factories
went up. Basically, a wholestring of single industry towns
were founded, mostly to get awayfrom taxes and regulation on the
(02:54):
Missouri side of the river. Sothey founded places like East
Alton, National City, East St.
Louis, a whole bunch of placesalong the river that were
basically founded by singlecompanies.
There's also some organizedcrime history, particularly
around Venice, Illinois. If yougo to
(03:14):
MississippiValleyTraveler.com/Venice,you can read more about that.
And as I said today, it'snot-it's an area a lot of people
in St. Louis would probably notconsider going to because there
is so much urban decay andpopulation loss. A lot of it
looks kind of run down,especially where the communities
are. But it's just got thisreally fascinating history, and
(03:37):
I'm not the only one who thinksso. Today's guest is Jennifer
Colten, who is a professionalphotographer, and she spent a
lot of time over the AmericanBottom documenting the area as
it looks today. So we, I had heron the podcast to talk about
this, her impressions of thisarea. We begin by talking about
her path to becoming aprofessional photographer, and
(03:59):
we do a little geeking out aboutdigital photography and our
transition to that from film.
And then we kind of talk abouthow she got interested in the
American Bottom, the work thatshe has done documenting the
landscape and history, some ofthe things that really got her
attention. We talk about thecontrast that's really striking
just across the river betweenthe old mounds of Cahokia and a
(04:21):
new mound that has sprung upthat is basically a giant trash heap.
Jennifer Colten (07:18):
Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you for inviting
me.
Dean Klinkenberg (07:21):
Yeah, I always like kind of start off to learn
more about how people kind ofgot on the path to their current
careers, and how did you getinvolved in the on the path to
becoming a professionalphotographer?
Jennifer Colten (07:34):
Well, it's a long time ago when I was in
college, midway through college,I really kind of stumbled upon
photography. I took a weekendworkshop class, and it was like
instantly-you know-it was aninstant thing that I knew that
that that was a path that Iwanted to pursue. And I finished
(07:59):
my college degree while I tookclasses in photography in
college, I finished my degree inEnglish literature, but then I
went to graduate school forphotography, and it was there
that it was like I was testingto see, you know, testing myself
to see whether this passion ofmine could potentially be
(08:21):
something I could follow throughon, and and that kind of led to
some teaching and and just a wayof being able to incorporate and
make a living, incorporate thethe passion of making the work
with making a living.
Dean Klinkenberg (08:38):
So, well, there's so many different
directions I suppose, a personcould go with an interest in
photography. So, in those earlyyears, what was your interest?
What did you do to kind of whatinterested you professionally,
and how did you make a livingfrom it?
Jennifer Colten (08:54):
Well, I started. It was I was very
lucky. I started teaching whileI was in graduate school, and I
didn't initially think I wouldbe interested in teaching, but I
really liked it. But all at thesame time, I was I was printing
for some professionalphotographers, you know, some
(09:15):
darkroom work, and because Ireally loved that part of the
process too, and I tried my handat a little wedding photography
and graduation photography, andI realized that I was not
interested in in that workpersonally. The business aspect
of it was not something I reallywas good at or wanted to invest
(09:37):
my my time in. So, yeah, the thelab work I really loved, and the
teaching I really loved, andthose were the two avenues. And
I was lucky enough to get ateaching job here in St. Louis
right out of graduate school, sokind of charted some path there.
Dean Klinkenberg (09:56):
So I'm I'm going to make an assumption that
perhaps when you started yourcareer, you were we were all
probably still mostly workingwith actual film and not with
digital photography.
Jennifer Colten (10:07):
Correct. Yes.
Dean Klinkenberg (10:09):
So, what was that transition like from you?
Like, were you kind of an earlyadopter to the digital
photography? Did it take you alittle while? I was slow. It
took. I resisted it for a while.
But what was that like for you?
Jennifer Colten (10:23):
I don't know that I was necessarily slow to
adopting digital. I think thatfor me, working digitally, I
mean, I was very satisfiedworking with film, and you know,
facilities at school and allaround were really attuned to
film at the time, even colorfilm, and I was working in color
(10:45):
from the beginning. It took mehaving a project that, or an
idea that kind of lended itselfto digital to get me introduced
to working digitally, and then,of course, eventually, color
digital tools and printing andpapers and all of that were just
(11:08):
so much better. And then youknow the film kind of fell away.
And even if I use film now, youknow that I will scan and then
print digitally. So yeah, forme, it was like the tool, the
project had to dictate the tool,and that's how I found my way
into digital.
Dean Klinkenberg (11:29):
Did did digital photography change your
approach to photography at all?
Jennifer Colten (11:36):
Well, that first project was one in which
my and my kids. I should alsosay my kids were very young at
the time, and so finding andcarving out some time to make
photographs was hard. So I wasmaking photographs at night, and
that early digital work wasactually something I have not
followed through on since. But Iwas making, I was making video
(11:56):
and then taking video grabs andthen digitally manipulating
them. So that's kind of it'sit's a it's a funny way into
digital, but that was whathappened for me. But in terms of
sort of more directly to yourquestion about did my esthetic
change or the way I approachsubject matter change? No, I
(12:19):
would say no. I really workdigitally very much the way I
work with or worked with filmanalog in that you know I'm I'm
I'm interested in a slow or akind of slow process of
observation. I almost alwayshave my camera on a tripod, and
(12:41):
I walk through the landscape,you know, the way one would
either with a view camera ormaybe maybe not a view camera,
but in a in a slower process. SoI really love that considered
compositional approach, andhaving the camera on the tripod
(13:02):
slows you down, of course. So Iwould say no, except for that
early introduction that kind ofgot me over the hump to work
digitally, and was kind of bynecessity in my life at the
time.
Dean Klinkenberg (13:15):
Yeah, I feel like I was kind of forced into
it. I'm glad that I eventuallydid, but I think the the moment
that really turned things aroundfor me was we traveled to
Southeast Asia for a few weeks,and I think I brought I don't
know like two dozen rolls offilm with me, something crazy
like that, and I had to getabout half of them developed
about halfway through the tripand mailed those home, and the
(13:37):
logistics of the having a filmcamera on a longer trip. It's
like I'm not sure this is reallythe best way to handle this, and
I think digital photography wasreally just beginning to get
better, and the the sensors weregetting better, producing higher
resolution images. But that thatmoment was a pretty good
education. But I like the wayyou describe the the slow,
(14:00):
measured approach to things. Idon't think it would be very
practical to carry a tripodaround with me when I'm
traveling around the country fora few few weeks.
Jennifer Colten (14:11):
Yeah, it takes some getting used to. I mean,
when I was doing most of mywork, you know, even even my
film photography, I guess Itoggled back and forth between
working with a tripod, sometimesworking with view camera, and
then you know I had a camerathat I I forever regret selling,
(14:35):
and it was a beautiful mediumformat camera that had great
quality and hand holdable. Andyou know when I switched to
thinking about making largerprints and really trying to
refine my digital capability sothat I could have a print that I
(14:57):
was really happy with, I movedto working with the tripod, and
that took some adjustmentbecause, like I said, you you do
have to slow down and and you dohave to resist some certain kind
of forced, I don't know what howto describe, but a little bit
(15:18):
stiffness. You know, I don't. Iwant to. I want to have the
compositions really wellcomposed, but not stiff the way
a tripod can sometimes lead youto make photographs. So it was a
little adjustment there.
Dean Klinkenberg (15:35):
Well, well, let's let's transition into more
contemporary work then. You gotinterested at some point in
documenting the American Bottom.
So, when when did that happen?
What caught your attention aboutthe American Bottom? Before we
do that, maybe you can just tellus a little bit about what the
American Bottom is, where it is.
Jennifer Colten (15:53):
Sure. Yes. So the American Bottom is. So I'm.
I live in St. Louis, and I mean,you're interested in the
Mississippi River. You know,people probably know where St.
Louis is located, and that theMississippi River divides
Missouri and Illinois. So theAmerican Bottom is just across
(16:15):
the Mississippi River from St.
Louis, stretching along theriver, well, bordered from the
river and the bluffs, andstretching from about Alton,
Illinois, 65 to 70 miles to thesouth along the river to the
mouth of the Kaskaskia River.
(16:38):
And it is a place that reallyencompasses so much, like
physical and so much history andso much sort of physical
material, and I'm sure we'llwe'll talk about some of that.
But that's where the AmericanBottom is kind of defined and
located.
Dean Klinkenberg (16:57):
So then, how did it catch your attention?
Jennifer Colten (17:00):
So a couple of colleagues at the time of mine
who have now become you knowdear friends and collaborators,
Jesse Vogler and MatthewFluharty. They were both at the
time in 2015, I guess it was. Wewere all at Wash U together, and
(17:22):
they had, they were looking fora photographer to contribute to
their research, which is writingand you know other kinds of
archival research about the theregion. And I had in you know we
were all in and around the SamFox School. I mentioned Jesse
(17:44):
was part of the LandscapeArchitecture Program. Maybe I
didn't mention that, but he was,and Matt was in the American
Culture Studies department, andwe you know from very very early
on, almost immediate, werealized that you know we had a
(18:05):
bond, we had sympathetic kind ofattention to the landscape and
to history and cultural topics,and so they were the ones that
introduced me to the AmericanBottom, and it was like it blew
me away. Like it was instant.
Like this is a place that'sliterally been in my backyard,
(18:26):
in my view, and I haven't seenit. So.
Dean Klinkenberg (18:34):
Do you remember like exactly what was
it about the American Bottomthat made that blew you away?
The complicated history, thethere's so many layers to that.
Like, what what sort ofresonated with you at first?
Jennifer Colten (18:47):
Well, it was it was it was a number of things,
as you said, a reallycomplicated history, and I mean,
it's still unfolding for me now10 years later, you know, I'm
learning new things and I'mhaving new ideas. But initially,
yeah, it was the history. Imean, certainly the history of
(19:09):
of Native American presence herethat is all but you know unseen.
And surprisingly, 10 years ago,I mean, a little bit more known
now because of I think a littlemore cultural awareness and and
a little more attention toCahokia Mounds State Park, but
even still, it is a region thathas all of this history that is
(19:34):
suppressed or unnoticed orintentionally disregarded, and
that was super interesting tome. That that you know what the
why of that, the why and the howof that. So and that I knew I
had lived in St. Louis for youknow a long time and I did not
know any of this and it wasright there. So I was really
(19:58):
interested in all of that and ofcourse both Jesse and Matt and
their you know they they wererelatively new in exploring the
American Bottom too, but theyhad a little bit more
understanding and research andarchival research and literary
people who had written about andarcheologists. So they were
(20:22):
introducing me to a lot of theseideas and then places, so yeah,
it was it was the history thatis so like unseen.
Dean Klinkenberg (20:32):
There are so many stories to tell about that
area, and.
Jennifer Colten (20:34):
So many.
Dean Klinkenberg (20:35):
So many different layers to those
stories, as you said. So, sowhen you first got started then,
what were some of the earlyplaces that you photographed
when you were getting going withthem?
Jennifer Colten (20:47):
Well, for sure, the the mounds, and you know,
both the mounds that are theNative American mounds, either
mounds that we can see, andthose that have that, or the
sites where the mounds were, youknow, places like like you know,
highways have dismantled. Youknow, highway infrastructure has
(21:11):
dismantled big mound complexes.
And also, and with the work thatJesse and I do around the
mounds, the Significant andInsignificant Mounds Project. We
are looking at those NativeAmerican mounds and the
contemporary 20th, 21st centurymounds, which are like the slag
(21:32):
heaps and the landfills and andthose kinds of things that are
literally adjacent to or on topof the Native American land and
mound space. So that was thebeginning but you can't look at
those, and you can't look at thethe the history of the mounds
and their erasure withoutlooking at the towns that are
(21:55):
you know all the municipalitiesthat are just adjacent and
within those spaces. So it wasall of that all at once. And
later came some of the the thethe work that I'm I think about
as it's all it's allinterrelated. But later came the
(22:18):
work that I think about is moresort of ecologically centered.
As I started photographingbetween the levee and the river,
and learning because, of course,the levee infrastructure also
displaced a lot. You know, evenas it was protecting, it was
(22:38):
also displacing a lot of things,so I started wandering between
the levee and the river space,and that's a whole entire
different kind of feel to thatthat landscape.
Dean Klinkenberg (22:54):
Why don't we start with that since this is a
program about the river.
Jennifer Colten (22:57):
Sure.
Dean Klinkenberg (22:58):
What did you encounter when you started
exploring that area?
Jennifer Colten (23:02):
So, and I also like like we were just saying,
everything is interrelated andoverlaps. So, I already had been
photographing in that area. Infact, some of the first the the
photographs I made were of amound that resides between the
levee and the river, anindustrial mound. Or it's it's
(23:26):
residue from the washings ofcoal so, and I so I was already
in that space, but then in well,in 2020 during COVID, I you know
wasn't talking to people orgoing into municipal buildings,
and I was wandering around a lotby myself. Which I do anyway but
(23:48):
it was even more, obviouslymore. And I started talking
about this place between thelevee and the river, and it
became this defined space that Iwould go to, and the area is
like pretty much where the placewhere I go is pretty much well,
(24:08):
it's animals, huntersoccasionally, and me, you know,
and maybe some people on dirtbikes occasionally, but nobody
is there is the point, and it'swild. The vegetation is wild,
and it's changing all the time.
Whether it's changing because ofweather conditions, or flooding,
(24:29):
or whatever just happens tovegetation over the course of a
year, and I got reallyinterested in just being in
that. It was a strange placethat filled me with a kind of
peace during the pandemic, and Iwas just going very regularly.
(24:49):
And all of a sudden, I was like,"Wow, this is this is an amazing
kind of landscape that is may beindicative of what happens when
nature goes wild." I mean, thatsounds you know. I don't like
using this this this kind oflanguage. Nature, what is that?
(25:11):
We're all nature. Wild, what isthat? You know, that's also. But
it was a very compellinglandscape to to watch over time
and across seasons, and sothat's what I was doing there,
or and still am, in fact.
Dean Klinkenberg (26:31):
Interesting, yeah. It it seems like it's one
(27:40):
of those areas that, like, somany of the spaces right next to
the Mississippi have sort ofbeen abandoned by most people,
especially where there's a talllevee like that. Interesting,
like that would have been anarea if we're talking like
around Venice and the McKinleyBridge at one time there would
have been shantyboat communitiesthere. There would have been
river communities of you knowfolks living there that we don't
(28:02):
allow anymore. So, and afterthat, I guess really there
weren't that many people whowere invested in spending any
time down there.
Jennifer Colten (28:11):
Yeah, yeah, sure. No, and and right, right
around Venice and and thebridge, there was I don't know
if you know of Kerr Island,which was, you know, a place
where people would go and andand recreate and you know have
(28:31):
have time there and maybe evenlive there. Although I'm not
positive about that, but doesnot exist anymore.
Dean Klinkenberg (28:38):
Right. One of the things I was curious about,
like since you've explored theAmerican Bottom so much, you
partially answered it here. Butyeah, historically, before
development happened, theAmerican Bottom was mostly
bottomland forests and wetlands,marshes, that kind of thing. Are
(28:58):
there places you've discoveredwhere there remnants of that old
those old ecosystems, other thanthe spot along the levee that
you were just describing?
Jennifer Colten (29:09):
You know, it's hard. I mean, every the entirety
of the American Bottom is awetland, right? And we as humans
try to control that, and webuild, and we you know, we we do
all kinds of things to to keepthat wetland at bay. But I think
I was told by somebodyrelatively recently that it's
(29:32):
only six, I and I I don't knowif this is true, this is what
they told me, six inches. Youdig six inches and you start to
reach the sand that then soonbecomes the the water table,
which is incredible. That islike nothing. So whether that is
accurate, the six inches isaccurate or not, the fact that
(29:54):
this all wetland is is verytrue. So I cannot say that
there's a place. That I'veidentified that I go to that
truly is as there's nothinguntouched. that I've found. You
know, there are places,especially in high water, that
(30:16):
look like they might it mighthave looked back in in in the
day, and there are places thatI've been taken to where people
tell me, you know, decades agothey used to be able to walk
from their homes to the river tofish or to swim or you know to
(30:37):
do whatever. But I can't saythat that I know of any place.
Dean Klinkenberg (30:47):
Right, right.
I mean, I don't certainlythere's no place that's
untouched. You know, there's theHorseshoe Lake area is a remnant
channel of the MississippiRiver.
Jennifer Colten (30:56):
Right. Very interesting. Yeah.
Dean Klinkenberg (30:58):
Right. We wouldn't recommend anybody go
for a swim in it, though. It'sthe water quality there, not not
very good.
Jennifer Colten (31:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, Horseshoe Lake is
super interesting. I mean, ityou know, it's a was part of
meander, and and it it now sortof, yeah, it is, it is a oxbow.
what it's called. So, yeah, itsecology and its history and its
(31:26):
age is really interesting.
Dean Klinkenberg (31:31):
Hey, Dean Klinkenberg here interrupting
myself. Just wanted to remindyou that if you'd like to know
more about the MississippiRiver, check out my books. I
write the Mississippi ValleyTraveler guidebooks for people
who want to get to know theMississippi better. I also wrote
'The Wild Mississippi,' a guidethat goes deep into the complex
(31:51):
ecosystems supported by theMississippi, the plant and
animal life that depends onthem, and where you can go to
experience it all. If you likefiction, check out my Frank
Dodge mystery series. Each bookis set in places along the
Mississippi River. My newestbook is a travel memoir called
Slowboats, Chicken Busses, andthe Radical Choice to Trust the
(32:12):
World.' The book explores a
simple question (32:16):
"What happens when you stop asking What if
something goes wrong, and startasking, what if everything goes
right?" Find out more atdeanklinkenberg.com/bettersafethansorry.
Well, there's so many otherlayers to the history of this
area. Like probably what a lotof people might be a little more
(32:38):
familiar with is the industrialhistory, late 19th century into
the 20th century. Tell us alittle bit about that era of
history in the American Bottom.
Jennifer Colten (32:50):
Well, you know something that I talk about a
lot is that, and I think about alot is that St. Louis and the
sort of development andeconomies of St. Louis owe a
huge debt to the east side, toEast St. Louis, you know,
(33:12):
National City, which we weretalking about earlier, Sauget,
you know, these these theseplaces that are directly across
from St. Louis, where a lot ofindustry set up or was
established there, because theregulations were much more lax
(33:35):
on the Illinois side of theriver. So St. Louis could, you
know, St. Louis benefited fromand on the backs of those
municipalities in or on the eastside.
Dean Klinkenberg (33:50):
It was basically a series of company
towns, right? Like there are alot of these municipalities were
founded by a single company thatwanted to build a giant factory
within the footprint of thatcity, so you had steel plants in
Granite City.
Jennifer Colten (34:03):
Yep.
Dean Klinkenberg (34:04):
You had the stockyards and meat processing
plants in National City.
Jennifer Colten (34:09):
Yep.
Dean Klinkenberg (34:09):
Aluminum processing. Then up and around
Alton, glassworks and theammunition plant. But most of
these were like part. I thinkwhat people don't always
understand is what it means tobe a company town for these
places. They were they werefounded to serve the needs of
those individual companies, notto create sustainable
(34:30):
communities over the long term.
Jennifer Colten (34:32):
Yeah, 100%.
Dean Klinkenberg (34:33):
Right. So yeah, something you'd like to
add to that.
Jennifer Colten (34:37):
No, I mean that was totally accurate, and you
know places like Wood River andthe the Shell Oil Corporation
and and others that youmentioned. You know Monsanto
also in Sauget and you knowthese communities still and of
course all of the the industrythat was in East Saint Louis and
(35:01):
Granite City. I mean, it it itwas it was vast and it was
productive. You know, it waslike, and yet there was a huge
environmental impact on thepeople, their health. You know,
and and it's complicated becausetheir livelihoods are all
attached to working in thesefactories. And today, there are
(35:26):
still, I mean, there are stillpeople living in all of these
towns, of course. And there areremnants of a lot of the
environmental conditions. Youcan see it in in the landscape,
and you know I'm reallyinterested in in the
contemporary contemporarypeople's lives. There there's a
(35:50):
lot of complexity in thisquestion about the relationship
between the industry and thepeople who worked in these
factories, and their theirfamily members who worked in the
factories, and and the socialand environmental conditions
that that that just sort of arepart and parcel of living and
(36:15):
working in these environments.
It's it's not simple. I mean,and and yeah, it is all very
complicated, and it reallyrequires stepping back and
trying not to impose judgment,which is something that you know
I think a lot about withphotography in particular and
the history of photography,which can be a very and
(36:39):
historically has been a veryextractive medium. So yeah, a
lot of things. I mean, just inthat question, you touch off a
lot of things that I think aboutall the time.
Dean Klinkenberg (36:55):
So part of your work is going to the
communities. You must you get achance to talk with people who
live there, and I will say a lotof people probably drive through
these areas and are probablyglad. You know, probably are are
crossing their fingers andhoping their cars don't break
down because they're afraid ofsome of these communities
because they they're poor. Youknow, many of them are are very
poor at this point in time. Whenthe people that you've met
(37:17):
there, though, like how do theymake sense? From what you can
tell, how do they make sense ofthe state of their community
today, given the history ofthose communities?
Jennifer Colten (37:28):
You know, from my experience, well, let me
speak first to this sort ofdrive through and hope you don't
have any kind of dangeroussituation. I I have found that
well, I'm not naive, and if Ihave intuition about something,
(37:49):
I will pay attention. I'm notnaive to think that you know, as
a person, a woman, a smallwoman, somebody you know walking
around with the camera that I amnot being watched, and you know,
for any kinds of reasons, youknow, a camera is definitely
something people are payingattention to. I I have not
(38:11):
encountered danger, and in fact,most often people are either
curious or and just want to knowwhat I'm doing, which I'm very
wanting to talk to people andand and and share with them and
have them share whatever theywant to share with me.
(38:31):
I had a student who is from EastSt. Louis, and we did a little
bit of collaborative worktogether, and she had and her
family goes way back in East St.
Louis, and she has huge pride inwhere she lives. And she told me
that she feels that it is a verypeaceful place. And we had spent
(38:52):
a good amount of time togetherin East St. Louis, and she was
super generous, sharing a lot ofher experiences and places that
were important to her, and thatreally, I mean, it made a big
impression on me for a lot ofreasons. Partly because of this
dispelling of all of the mythsof East St. Louis, that it could
also be and is a place that ispeaceful. So I started seeing
(39:18):
things through her eyes and herexperience in that way, and I
understand it now having spentnow you know a couple of years
really dedicating in East St.
Louis. So you know people arepeople, and people have lives
(39:41):
that they're living, and andthey're making their way in the
world. And often people are havea kind of I don't know
resilience is an overused word,but a kind of fortitude and
commitment and pride in wherethey're from and the stories
(40:04):
that they have been told bytheir own family members, and I
really feel like places hold alot of that. And so people
share-that's my experience-ispeople share all of that kind of
stuff that dispels the mythsthat get told over and over
again that cause people to drivequickly through some of the the
(40:30):
you know municipalities.
Dean Klinkenberg (40:33):
So in your work then, do you tend to
photograph places or people or alittle bit of both, or what's
your approach then todocumenting the American Bottom?
Jennifer Colten (40:47):
So almost well, primarily and really almost
exclusively, it is it is theland and the infrastructure and
the you know residues ofwhatever the river has brought.
But I am slowly. I have beenthinking for a long time about.
Well, I should say before I talkabout photographing people,
(41:10):
people have always been veryimportant to the making of the
photographs of the places andthe landscapes. Partly because
people, obviously, they'remaking an imprint on on these
landscapes in all kinds of ways,just by by their presence. And
I'm really interested in the wayland and landscapes hold a
(41:35):
certain kind of memory of whathas occurred in those or on
those places, so the people andand and people often tell me
either through stories ortelling me places, suggesting to
me to places to go. People havebeen really important to how
(41:55):
I've moved through and whereI've moved through in the
landscape. But relativelyrecently, I've been wondering
whether or how I might includepeople's physical bodies and
presence in the landscape. I'mnot really sure where that's
going. It's not my usualimpulse, and it's not
(42:19):
particularly easy for me, butI'm trying that just to see
whether that's a a piece of thestory that I want to incorporate
back in, or or incorporate in ornot.
Dean Klinkenberg (42:32):
Yeah, interesting. You mentioned
earlier too. This kind oftouches on this. I think that
photography, particularly inplaces like this, has often kind
of been extractive. Can you saya little bit more about what
that means to you as aphotographer, and then how do
you document these places as aphotographer without being
extractive?
Jennifer Colten (42:53):
So you know the history of photography, and
especially like documentaryphotography, is one where, I
mean, inherent in the medium,you're, the photographer is
observing, is you know even inthe language, taking the
picture, capturing thephotograph, that kind of thing.
(43:14):
There is there is a kind ofdistance that traditional
photography has used in order tobe able to observe and to record
information and people andplaces. There's also a history
(43:38):
in documentary photography ofphotographers either going to
places or photographing peoplethat they are that are not their
community and their theirhomeland, and I'm really
sensitive to not doing that. Imean, I'm I'm aware of when a
(44:06):
you know when when I'm walkingaround with a camera. Here's to
your second part of thequestions, like what's my
strategy? This is part of why Ihave the camera on a tripod. I
want very much to be present andvisible and not hiding anything
that I'm doing, my intentions ormy own self in those places.
(44:31):
And my students laugh at me, butI admonish them that they should
never ever take a picture fromtheir car. I mean, I you know, I
firmly believe that if you aregoing to know something about a
place, you need to be there, andso there's that part of it. And
(44:53):
then if you're taking aphotograph out of your car
window, you really are takingsomething from those that
community or those placeswithout some kind of exchange,
and I think that this kind ofexchange is really important.
If I make photographs of people,I always go back and give them
(45:18):
some prints. I also have a partof my practice is to bring
photographs that have been madein these areas and give them as
gifts or you know as offeringsto public places in the area,
(45:40):
like libraries or post officesor village halls. So in many,
not many, but a good handful nowof places around the American
Bottom, I've given framedphotographs that they, you know,
that that are things that peoplewho come into those public
spaces might see something ofthemself, so this idea of
(46:03):
exchange is really important asa way to counter this
extraction, because thesestories and these places are not
mine. You know, there I I I'mnot I'm not even from the
Midwest. You know, I've livedhere a long time, but I'm from
St. Louis, and I'm I'm not fromthese places. But this kind of
(46:25):
exchange and thisacknowledgement, like I I'm
seeing you, and I'm wanting tocelebrate, and I'm wanting to
offer something back.
Dean Klinkenberg (46:37):
Well, and it sounds like those interactions
too, as you said before, likeyou learn about the places in a
way that you would not haveotherwise if you just stayed in
your car and took pictures. Youlearned about the quiet in East
St. Louis, and it changed theway that you approached
photographing the place thentoo.
Jennifer Colten (46:54):
100% yes.
Dean Klinkenberg (46:58):
What are I know we're an audio podcast. I
can post some pictures or a linkto your your website with photos
too. But when you think back onthe 10 years or so you've been
photographing the AmericanBottom, are there a couple of
images in particular that reallystand out for you, or a few?
Jennifer Colten (47:19):
Well, that is a really hard question. I mean,
yes, and it's a hard questionbecause I I feel like to know
the American Bottom, to knowthese multiple kinds of of
(47:39):
conditions that exist in andhistories and features that
exist in the American Bottom isis it's nothing is singular. So
if I think about, for instance,you know the mounds, the the the
Significant and Insignificantmounds, you can't look at at
(48:01):
least for this project, and andat least to understand some of
the complexity of the region,you can't look at a Native
American mound without lookingat the a landfill or you know a
slag heap because they docoexist In the landscape. I
(48:23):
photographed in 2018. A 2018,yeah, summer of 2018, a tornado
blew through and and blew down aradio tower right behind. It was
right behind the Milam Landfill,and I I found it the day after
it came down, which wasincredible because what I was
(48:47):
and it was it blew my mind. Istarted photographing. It was
massive, the steel structurethat twisted and fell in the
tornado in an open field. So I Istarted photographing it, and
for the next year and a half,photograph for probably a couple
times a week, and so that islike to look at those
(49:15):
photographs requires themultiple because I go back,
return over a long period oftime, and I was observing all of
the changes in the weather, inme, in the vegetation, and so
for sure with each of theprojects, I could pick out maybe
(49:36):
a signature or a couple of youknow images that might deliver
the idea behind that project,but I feel like the complexity
of the American Bottom is sodeep that they kind of needs
more than than just one or two.
Dean Klinkenberg (49:57):
Right. So how.
This may be a hard question toanswer, but how do you think we
can be more thoughtful as we gothrough these landscapes,
particularly like the AmericanBottom that most St. Louisans
are probably familiar with, iffor no other reason that they've
probably driven through it adozen or more times? How can we
maybe be a little morethoughtful about understanding
(50:21):
what we're actually drivingthrough, or what that area
means?
Jennifer Colten (50:28):
Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, you know,
most people are not going tohave the time, or take the time,
or have, you know, the kind ofdeep interest to spend a decade
and more on learning about aplace. There was a project in
East St. Louis too. It was partof the commemoration, the
(50:55):
100-year commemoration of theEast St. Louis program they call
it, you know the the racemassacre, and the project there
are plaques or there there'ssignage. These they're sacred
(51:15):
sites and they're positionedaround East St. Louis at
specific places that have thathave historic significance to
that race massacre, and it has alittle bit of text, and it marks
that spot. And I think thatefforts to acknowledge the
(51:41):
histories because they are sounseen and so complicated, these
are important. And of course,people can go to Cahokia Mounds
and, you know, visit visit themounds and visit the
interpretive center and all ofthat. And there's history there,
but I think that that thesethese signs that are around East
(52:04):
St. Louis are the kind of ideathat I think you know allows
people to guide themselves andguide a kind of understanding
about a complexity or a piece ofhistory about the landscape.
Dean Klinkenberg (52:19):
It's always so striking to me when I'm coming
into town, especially onInterstate 55, and off to the
left you have Monk's Mound, andthen off to the right you have a
giant garbage mound.
Jennifer Colten (52:30):
Yeah, two mounds.
Dean Klinkenberg (52:33):
Right, two. I guess if even if people were to
stop and think for a minute, whywas this one built? Why was this
one built? What does that sayabout these two different
societies or cultures. Yeah,that might be an interesting
thought process to go through aswell.
Jennifer Colten (52:47):
Yeah, 100% In fact, that particular adjacency
and confusion is exactly whatinspired Jesse's first thinking
about this, you know,Significant and Insignificant
Mounds, and because, as he tellsit, you know, when he came into
(53:07):
town, he thought he mistakenlythought Milam was Cahokia
mounds. And he's not the onlyone. Other people have have said
that, you know, just in passingto me, and or asked that as a
question, and yeah, it doesexactly as you said. It raises
this question (53:26):
like, how how did this come to be?
Dean Klinkenberg (53:31):
Absolutely.
Jennifer Colten (53:32):
Yeah.
Dean Klinkenberg (53:33):
Well, you've had a few years under your belt
doing this. What stories are youstill chasing?
Jennifer Colten (53:39):
Yeah, I saw that on your on your list of
questions. You know, I mean, inaddition to just continuing to
explore some of the places, andit's important to me to explore
over long periods of time theseplaces that I already have
identified because they change,and I'm also really interested
(54:04):
in how can you find new ways ofknowing or understanding a
place, even when it's familiar.
But in addition to that, I'malso really thinking about how
to show an audience, or youknow, show people who live here
parts of the geography that youknow is a maybe an alternative
(54:30):
kind of mapping. So, like forinstance, there's a route that
the Native Americans would walkfrom Cahokia to the river, six
mile, about six miles in inlength. And I'm really
interested and have been playingwith walking and photographing
(54:51):
that route as a way to map mapwith the body and map with an
alternative kind ofdocumentation that ancient
route. It's it's CollinsvilleRoad now, and then it also moves
into East St. Louis, which isCollinsville Road in East St.
Louis, and then winds its way inand to the river. So those kinds
(55:13):
of ideas are really interestingto me, and then I mentioned
earlier, I'm I'm attempting toget over a little trepidation of
and and difficulty of of makingportraits, and I don't know
where that will lead, but youknow we'll see.
Dean Klinkenberg (55:38):
Yeah, it sounds like a great project to
tackle, though it sounds like agood direction to go.
Jennifer Colten (55:44):
Yeah, thank you, thank you.
Dean Klinkenberg (55:45):
Well, we are out of time, unfortunately. This
has gone very fast. Where, ifpeople are interested in
following your work, where wouldyou suggest they go?
Jennifer Colten (55:56):
Sure, they can go to my website. I've just
recently redone my website,which is exciting. I worked with
with a great person who helpedme design and and implement a
new website. New work is onthere, so that's
jennifercolten.com, and also onInstagram. Oh, what is it? I
(56:20):
think it's j_colten. So those, Ion my Instagram, I almost
exclusively post about theAmerican Bottom. I don't use it
for other kinds of things. Itreally, and I used to post, It
was my practice to post onephotograph every day as a as a
(56:43):
way of, you know, developing a akind of rhythm and a practice,
and almost all of thosephotographs are made with the
cell phone as distinct from thecamera. So those are just a few
things about like someconstraints I put on the
Instagram, and the website hasit's almost exclusively American
(57:05):
Bottom because I have that manyinterrelated projects. There are
a couple on there that are arenot American Bottom that I'm
still you know still interestedin. But yeah, those are the two
best places. And I supposeanybody could contact me. You
can contact me through mywebsite. My email is on my
website.
Dean Klinkenberg (57:26):
Fantastic. I will post links to those in the
show notes. And thanks. Thankyou so much for making time to
talk with me today. This was afantastic discussion. I really
appreciate
Jennifer Colten (57:37):
Yeah. Thanks so much for, yeah, for inviting me.
It was great.
Dean Klinkenberg (57:44):
Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this
episode, subscribe to the serieson your favorite podcast app so
you don't miss out on futureepisodes. I offer the podcast
for free, but when you supportthe show with a few bucks
through Patreon to help keep theprogram going, just go to
Patreon.com/deanklinkenberg. Ifyou want to know more about the
(58:04):
Mississippi River, check out mybooks. I write the Mississippi
Valley Traveler guidebooks forpeople who want to get to know
the Mississippi better. I alsowrite the Frank Dodge Mystery
Series that's set in placesalong the river. Find them
wherever books are sold. TheMississippi Valley Traveler
podcast is written and producedby me, Dean Klinkenberg.
Original music by Noah Fence.
See you next time.
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