May 11, 2026 • 28 mins
James Demmert, CIO and founder of Main Street Research, built a $3 billion wealth management firm by doing one thing differently: putting families first. In this episode of Money Signal, James shares how he spotted a broken incentive model on Wall Street, why fee-based investing was a radical idea in 1993, and how investor psychology — especially fear during a market correction — drives the costliest mistakes in the US economy. Whether you're figuring out how to start investing or want smarter financial advice for the long run, this conversation is your blueprint. Also discussed: his book Wall Street Lessons and why the best time to invest is always now.
🎙 Host:
Tsvetta Kaleynska — Consumer Data & Social Listening Expert
📡 About The Money Signal: From Main Street to Wall Street — where real stories meet market intelligence.
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Tsvetta Kaleynska (00:00):
When is the best time to start financially
planning?
SPEAKER_00 (00:03):
Yesterday.
I was a really lucky kid.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (00:05):
I'm a big believer that numbers hold
specific powers.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
We are our own worst enemy when it comes to investing
because we have this thingcalled emotions and psychology.
Technology has dramaticallychanged the business.
It's a safer world to be aninvestor.
There's more transparency,there's less cost, and markets
are more liquid.
Meaning, if I really want tosell my Microsoft, I literally
(00:28):
can sell it in one second.
To save more, you need to workmore.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (00:38):
Welcome to the Money Signal podcast from
Main Street to Wall Street,where today I am joined by James
Demert, founder and CEO of MainStreet Research.
Hey James, so good to have youhere.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
Thanks for having me.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (00:56):
I uh before I had heard of you, um, this is
like the backstory and contextof again our meeting, but before
I had heard of you, when uhPeter and I decided to do this
podcast, we were very interestedin figuring out uh and coining
specific phrases from amarketing perspective that would
work well in our favor.
(01:17):
So again, I'm the marketing guruand branding expert.
And both of us knew that Peterrepresents Wall Street.
That's pretty clear.
And I really speak on MainStreet stages because I analyze
consumer behavior.
And in financial terms,obviously, Main Street is
(01:39):
considered anything that has totouch with consumers.
So we were both pretty much seton the title from Main Street to
Wall Street.
And I started uh looking upbasically names for the podcast
that could work, and Main Streetinstantly popped up with you and
Main Street research.
(01:59):
So my first thought was like,wow, how small is the world?
Um, and then I had actuallyrealized that I recognize you
from a lot of the TV interviewsacross platforms and TV networks
that both you and I do.
So honestly, it's uh very funnyhow the stars align.
And I'm very grateful that youwere able to come here.
Now, I'd love to learn moreabout before we even get to Main
(02:22):
Street research, which I lovedata and I love research.
I'd like to learn more aboutyou.
How did you get into finance andhow did you get into investment
and uh private businesses andentrepreneurship?
SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
Yeah, thanks for asking.
It's a great story.
Um, I guess I think that becauseit's mine.
Um and there's some crosscurrents between how um I named
it Main Street and what you do.
And um, I was a really luckykid, is what I'd like to start
with.
You know, I was a um uh at areally young age, my uncle had
the Wall Street Journal, and Iremember seeing all the figures
(02:56):
in the charts on the on theactual paper back then, and just
being fascinated.
What is that?
And um, this is way beforegaming and all that other stuff,
and I just had this fascination,what is that?
And and he would teach me alittle bit about it, and I must
have been maybe a youngteenager.
And um, and then when I went tocollege, I was I was an early
(03:17):
adapter of the internship.
You know, now it's uh verypopular, hard to get internships
these days.
Yeah.
And um, I I knew I want to chasethis thing about the figures on
the newspaper.
And I worked at a company uh atthe time called Rothschild, LF
Rothschild.
And um, this is my second yearof college.
(03:37):
And so uh there was a guy namedMike Donahue.
He said, uh, you know, he was inthe investment business.
Rothschild was a popular nameback then with Lehman Brothers
and Smith Barney.
This is back in the mid 80s, andhe said, and I showed a lot of
interest and during the summerfor the internship, which was
again rare.
Um, and he said, kid, I'll teachyou everything I know.
(03:59):
You seem like you really likethis.
And um, and I think one of themessages that I try to tell uh
my students, because now we runa nonprofit uh teaching
students, is try to find yourpassion at a young age.
And so as I say, you know, I'm alucky kid.
I really found that passion.
And so I worked with this uhthis at that point older guy who
(04:19):
taught me a lot.
And uh he said to me, you know,uh, I went to college uh not far
away, he said, look during theschool year, if you want to
carve some time out, you cancome back in and you know work
uh minimum wage, I think it was.
And I was happy to do so.
And so we worked side by sidefor a couple years, and boy, it
was so inspiring.
(04:40):
And it really set the journeyfor this career that I consider
to be uh fun, not necessarily awork, um, which is, you know,
again, uh so grateful to havethat experience.
Um, so I came out of collegewith all my licenses, um, you
know, so at a really young age,so I sort of a bit of ahead of
(05:01):
my peers uh upon graduation.
And um then I went to work for amuch larger organization,
another one kind of likeRothschild, uh, which you
probably heard of, LehmanBrothers.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (05:13):
Yes, that one I've heard of.
I'm not in finance, but I haveheard of Lehman Brothers.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:17):
And um, and that's you know, the inspiration uh of
Main Street research came fromworking at big institutions like
that, where I learned managingmoney and and helping investors
that are institutionalinvestors.
Wasn't really I wasn't reallyattracted to that.
I wanted to get closer to the tothe client satisfaction, the the
(05:40):
humans, uh, the families.
Um, and so that's uh working umat um at a big firm like Lehman
made me yearn.
Where is this where's the clientsatisfaction?
And that's what really gavebirth to leaving the big place,
starting my own organization.
(06:00):
And um, you know, and the nameMain Street Research, it came
from a couple of things.
One was um, and I was youngthen, I wasn't married, no kids,
so I could take the risk ofstarting a business.
And uh I found a wonderful spotto do this and outside of San
Francisco where I was living atthe time.
And it was on Main Street.
(06:22):
And I thought to myself, this isa perfect street because it's
sort of a neighborhood.
Um, it's about people, notinstitutions.
Um, and I said to myself, Well,I'm on Main Street, let's call
it Main Street Research, and umit'll be focused on managing
money for families and hopefullysecond generation and third
(06:45):
generation of families.
And then later, and now it'sevolved to families and
nonprofits, which is kind ofwhere our heart is.
So I was a lucky kid.
I I just got the bug early.
Um, I still have the bug.
Um, and I just love working withuh individuals, families, and
nonprofits.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (07:03):
That's such a sweet story and so amazing.
Uh it I mean, I always I'm a bigbeliever in besides research and
data, also in this is a sidenote in numerology.
Although I don't know, I don'tunderstand necessarily how to do
it myself.
Um, I'm a big believer thatnumbers hold specific powers and
so do names, right?
(07:24):
Name of a podcast or name of acompany.
So the fact that you umappreciated Main Street and
obviously your experience acrossyour professional career, and
you were able to put all of theknowledge together and create
Main Street research forsomething special that can help
families that can helpphilanthropic um also
(07:46):
opportunities and organizationsis awesome.
And I love that you have in yournaming research too.
I think it um from brandingperspective, once again, when I
looked you up, I thought it wasso interesting because very
often when you see these biginstitutions, it's a name.
So Lima Brothers, okay.
If I'm someone, I am fromBulgaria, if I'm someone who's
(08:08):
in Bulgarian, here's LimaBrothers, like I wouldn't
necessarily know what it isright away, right?
So I congratulate you again onthe great choice of naming your
company and uh on the fact thatit has to do again with like
research and data, which I loveso much.
Now let's get back to like whatspecifically, so you had your
all of your licenses, which forour listeners and viewers who
(08:31):
are in non-financial, because Iknow we have um everyone from
Main Street to Wall Streetlistening here.
Those are the financialcertifications in order for you
to be able to trade.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_00 (08:42):
Yeah, back then it was the series 65 and or the
series 63 and the series seven,which was a monster exam uh that
would take, I think, six hours,morning and afternoon, uh, very
rigorous.
And um, this the past fail rate,I think, was 60%.
Yeah.
So it was really difficult.
And I was lucky to take it as a,you know, as a college uh kid at
(09:05):
the time.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (09:06):
And when you took those exams, you basically
could then go and and trade andexecute um trades on specific on
behalf of specific clients.
Is that what you did at Lehman?
SPEAKER_00 (09:15):
Yeah, and that's what you needed the license that
sort of spoke to um you're gonnabe responsible and um and you
know, follow certain guidelinesand understand all the
instruments.
And I think it really was andstill is a great platform for
people if you're interested ingetting in the business.
You know, going and getting yourseries seven is a great thing.
Um yeah, it allows you to uhconduct business with a client.
(09:40):
And back then, as it is, I guessa little bit now, it was really
by phone or in person.
And um, so you needed thelicenses to be able to be a
licensed uh broker, is what wewould call it then.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (09:53):
And after leaving Lehman, you immediately
started Main Street research.
How did you read the signal interms of what specifically Main
Street research should offer?
SPEAKER_00 (10:03):
Great question.
And it was the driving force ofmaking the change.
One thing that I noticed in thatin that era, this was a popular
thing.
For people to have arelationship with an investment
professional, they had to pay acommission to buy and sell
securities.
And so the person who waslicensed, the broker, kind of
(10:25):
had an incentive to buy and sellmore often because the more
often they would buy and sell,right?
It was very self-serving for thebroker.
And that's why there was a lotof legal problems in the 70s and
80s with brokers doing what wecall churning, right?
Buying and selling on behalf ofthe client, but the client maybe
not necessarily benefiting, butthe broker doing so.
(10:46):
So um, back in 1993 is when Istarted Main Street research,
um, my goal was the families,hopefully eventually nonprofits,
but it was really to create adifferent um mechanism to
compensate myself and hopefullywhen I have colleagues.
And that, and so I was an earlyadapter of paying a fee based on
(11:08):
the value of the portfolio.
If the value of the portfoliogoes up, we might get paid a
little bit more.
But if the value goes down, weget paid less.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (11:17):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (11:18):
And no interest in the transaction commissions uh
or being paid for the buying andthe selling.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (11:24):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (11:24):
So it was back then that was a very unique idea.
And um, in fact, it was so itwas it's kind of funny now.
I had to explain it to people.
They they didn't understand.
Oh, you're just gonna charge me1% on the value.
I've never heard of such athing.
What about all the buys andsells?
I'm like, no, well, we'll putthe money at Charles Schwab.
(11:46):
That way I can't have access.
By the way, for your viewers,that's a safer way.
Never give your investments tosomeone and have them putting it
in their own name.
Make sure it's in a separatecustodian, is what we call it.
That's what Schwab is.
So I I had an agreement withSchwab, and and then clients
would put the money there andthey would just pay me.
(12:06):
If I did well, I got paid more.
And that was a fabulous uharrangement for the client.
And I I used um some you know,some media attention to to sort
of get some momentum around thatidea because it wasn't real
popular back then.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (12:23):
That's a fascinating model because as
someone who is very um new toinvesting, I find you you
mentioned Schwab because I justgot an email that my first
investment in Charles Schwab umwas in 2011.
So I'm a recent investor.
Um, and it sounds like what youdid and what the approach you
(12:44):
had was so novel at the timebecause it was so safe.
And um, for younger oruneducated investors, including
myself to a certain degree,that's almost makes it feel cozy
and makes it feel very nicebecause I know that you're not
gonna skin me at the end of themonth when it comes to how my
(13:05):
portfolio performs.
SPEAKER_00 (13:07):
Yeah, there's an alignment, right, between how
the investment person'scompensated and what your
results are.
In fact, we've taken that to auh uh even a bigger degree in
the last 20 years.
I can't believe I've had thefirm now for 32 years, but about
20 years ago, we we still have afee that's related to the assets
only.
But now we have a fee that'salso a lower asset management
(13:30):
fee and then a performance fee.
So it's a little bit more like,wow, if they don't do well, they
even pay less.
But if they do great, they payus a bit of a bonus.
And you know, clients loveanything that further aligns
their results with thecompensation.
Wow.
It's a great value proposition.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (13:47):
It's a wonderful value proposition
again.
As I love safety when it comesto finance and investments, as
someone, I'm sure, as all of ourlisteners, everyone works very
hard for their dollar.
So you want to always thinkcarefully about it.
Now, when it comes to youmentioned a few things, and I'm
gonna bring you back to both ofthem.
One of them is technology.
(14:08):
So Charles Schwab, um, I thinkmostly kind of represents like a
different thought, and I thinkthat's why they were so
successful as an institution.
So I'd love to hear more aboutlike the technological journey
of how things have changedthroughout the years and your
experience.
So starting Main Streetresearch, I mean, you saw Lehman
(14:31):
Brothers, and I'm sure there aremany lessons with Lehman
Brothers.
Um, but how has technologychanged what you guys do for
existing clients over these 32years?
I think you mentioned thatyou've had the business now.
SPEAKER_00 (14:46):
Yeah, I think technology has made it easier
for clients to understand whatwe're doing and other advisors,
I hope.
Um, and also it's made it muchmore efficient for us to do what
we do.
As an aside, um, Rothschild uhshortly after I left went out of
business.
Maybe you know thathistorically.
(15:07):
And of course, shortly after Ileft Lee Lehman Human Brothers,
they went out of business.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (15:11):
So the lesson is never let James leave.
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
Fortunately, after 32 years, we're still here.
I think those business modelsactually weren't great.
So and the world kind of movedaway from those.
But technology has umdramatically changed um the
business.
You know, I uh we've met on theNew York Stock Exchange floor,
and you can see it right there.
Not as many people, a lot moretechnology.
And that's making um, I thinkfor the end user investor, for
(15:39):
your viewers, it's a safer worldto be an investor because
there's more transparency,there's less cost, fees,
brokerage fees, commissions, um,and um and and and markets are
more liquid, meaning if I reallywant to sell my Microsoft, I
literally can sell it in onesecond.
(16:00):
I don't have to wait a long timeand maybe the price is
different.
Right.
So I think technology hasallowed for the transactions to
be more safe.
Um, there's a lot moreguardrails around safety for the
investor.
And then from an investmentadvisor standpoint, I get these
really cool statements that wegenerate ourselves from our
in-house technology that make itsuper easy for the client to
(16:23):
understand.
And for a lot of clients, thiswhole thing is like a foreign
language.
Yeah.
So I can show them this is howmuch stock exposure versus your
safe bond exposure.
This is how we've done since westarted after fees, the net
return.
And you can compare that to yourlong-term financial planning.
And we can see, oh, yeah, you'reon track to go where you need to
(16:45):
go to retire, to leave money tothe next generation, to be able
to give money back to yourcommunity.
And so that technology is verykey to the relationship with the
client.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (16:56):
I'd love to learn more about your work with
private clients and families.
Um, I'm big as an immigrant.
I'm big on um understanding howthe generational planning works.
I have two kids currently, I runseveral businesses, and really
it would be very beneficial tome as a human to understand when
(17:18):
I think of building my kids'future, are there any specific
steps that need to be taken?
And how do your current how doyou work with your current
clients, like from startingpoint to, you know, building the
generations ahead for them?
SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
Yeah, I I I think, you know, the key with families
is to bring it down to a levelthat's really easy to
understand.
A lot of our clients that are,you know, have built up some
savings and and and need toinvest, they're lawyers, they're
doctors, they're um, they'reentrepreneurs, um, they're not
(17:56):
stock market experts.
So I think that one of thethings that we've really gotten
um good at is explaining thingsin easy fashion and being an
educator.
You know, I um I think that partof being a great investment
manager is you're an educator.
Um, you're drawing a map forfrom here to where they need to
(18:18):
go as far as the the growth ofthe assets.
And you're part therapist, youknow.
Markets can make people jitteryand and um fearful um or maybe
uh overconfident.
And um so working with familiesis what we really enjoy because
of that human aspect.
And I love the idea of a clientwho who has gotten their assets
(18:42):
to a certain level, and they sayto themselves, you know, my wife
and I and and the kids, we justlike to at some point have the
option not to work.
How how can we do that?
And and drawing out, you know,in a very specific financial
model, looking at all theirassets and being, you know,
sometimes very direct.
Like you need to save more, youneed to work more longer.
(19:04):
Um based on certain risks andreturn.
We can make anything happen.
The question is, you know, howdo you want it to look and to
feel?
So it's a it's a partnership,which I think we all enjoy at
the firm.
And there really is nothing moresatisfying than seeing their
goals get reached.
Part of the education, I think,is really key because you know,
(19:25):
investors can often be scaredwhen markets go down, like
recently with the Mideast uhwar, um, or they can become
overconfident.
And part of our job is toeducate them about the history
of markets and make sure theydon't panic too much when when
everybody else is panicking, andmaking sure they don't get too
overconfident when things looklike they can they can only go
(19:45):
higher.
And and I think one of thethings that we've learned, and
because we now work with manygenerations of the same family,
is bringing those young peopleinto the conversation earlier
than even the parents think isappropriate.
Bring those kids in when they're11 or 12.
They're smarter than we than youwould imagine.
And I want to give them the bugthat I got as an early teenager
(20:07):
in investing, if I can.
So we invite and we do someeducational uh stuff around
that.
And generally speaking, it worksout really well because then the
parents are happy, right?
That the kids are learning.
It works out for everybody.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (20:20):
And when is the best time to start
financially planning?
Is it is there a too late or tooearly?
SPEAKER_00 (20:26):
Yesterday.
It really is.
I but I think that also whathappens with many people is they
feel like it's just too late.
You know, I I should have donethat, you know, 10 years ago.
So I won't do it.
Or, you know, I have inertia.
And um, you know, the it's likea planting a tree, right?
The best time to plant a treewas 20 years ago, the next time,
(20:49):
next best time is today.
Really, um, I think some peoplefeel like it's a daunting
experience.
I really don't want to know thetruth, how long it might take if
it's possible.
And I would say to most peoplewho have those feelings, it's uh
it's much more possible than youthink.
And particularly the the theearlier you you you just go
after it and just find somebodywho's a really good listener and
(21:12):
has a great, you know, number ofyears doing it and a lot of
satisfied clients.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (21:16):
I I find finance again, years ago when I
moved to the states, uh, I foundfinance just so complex and
overwhelming, really.
It it makes you uh completelyoverwhelmed in terms of what you
could do and again, risk andvolatility and like what's good
when it comes to investing andyou know, maybe what to stay
(21:40):
away from.
And having a good educator, Ifound is incredibly important.
So my mentor who lives in uh SanFrancisco, she taught me early
on in my life in America that ifyou have a dollar, that's how
she explained investing.
If you have a dollar, you wantto send your dollar to go to
work every day and bring it.
A friend.
(22:01):
So then you have severaldollars, and then you send the
two friends then back on themarket the next day to find you
a few more friends.
So you accumulate and that thereare safe spaces and safe places
basically in terms of investing.
But I love what you said aboutthe education piece because um
it it's very often it's crazy tothink, but there are many adults
(22:24):
out there who feel overwhelmedbecause they never got educated.
That's not what our system,education system, I think
globally is really doing a poorjob at teaching us about money
and finance.
So I love that you mentionedthat education piece because I
know how important it is.
I'd love to learn more aboutthat institutional aspect.
So you mentioned in thebeginning of the interview that
(22:46):
you don't only work withfamilies, but you also work with
institutions and nonprofitorganizations.
So I'd love to hear more aboutthat.
SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
Yeah, I think it's important that we all give back
if we can afford to.
In fact, with clients, we sortof teach them like if there's
room, right?
We want to inspire them to giveback.
Even if it's a small amount, ifeveryone gives a small amount,
it has a huge impact on thenonprofit space.
Nonprofits are typicallyorganizations in our local
(23:16):
communities or globalcommunities that are giving
back, helping those in need,whether it's income, education,
what have you.
So I'm just really inspired andI love to get a new client
that's a nonprofit so I can helpthem grow those assets and
protect those assets in the badmarkets.
And I and I really think thatthat's important.
(23:37):
Um, a good investment advisorshould be able to go up when the
market goes up, but a reallygood investment advisor also
should be able to let you knowwhen markets get really
horrible, we're gonna dosomething about it.
And that that's a differentiatorat Main Street Research.
Um, so our work in nonprofits umis we were very enthusiastic.
(23:57):
And um, and uh, you know, we Iwrote my second book I wrote was
actually all about investing fornonprofits, teaching again,
teaching again, nonprofits, howto have the right documents in
place.
There's there's a lot ofregulations, so we know all
about that.
But more importantly, have aninvestment policy that has a
(24:18):
roadmap of how we can increasethis value so we can give back
to the community.
But there's even a little bit inthere because I personally am an
advocate in my personal life ofgiving back.
So I'm teaching them how to geta donor, how to retain your
donors.
As a donor myself, it was aneasy chapter to write.
And it's really important fornonprofits to understand where
(24:41):
do these donors, where are they,and how can I attract them?
So we're investing fornonprofits to try to make them
bigger in assets, but we're alsoeducating them.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (24:50):
And Main Street research, if I'm correct,
has a large portfolio of severalbillion dollars.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
Yeah, 3 billion.
Well, it's 2.8 as of yesterday.
Who knows?
It moves around.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (25:04):
That's incredible.
I I love um I love the story.
I love meeting entrepreneurs andagain, I love self-built.
Um, it just reminds me again ofhow lucky we are to live in
America as someone who moved toAmerica from another place to be
able to build here and um amassknowledge along the way and
share that knowledge and alsoshare the wealth, which is very
(25:26):
important to me as well.
Um, in so you mentioned you haveseveral books.
Uh, one of them is actuallysitting in front of us, which
we'll make sure to link for ourviewers and listeners, which is
called The Wall Wall StreetLessons.
Tell me more about the book.
What prompted you to write thisbook?
SPEAKER_00 (25:41):
It what prompted me is my history of working with
families uh and individuals.
Um and you know, typically whensomebody, by the time they get
to us, they've had some badexperiences doing this
themselves, or they had anadvisor that just didn't work
out so well.
And usually it's because I liketo say um the human brain kind
(26:03):
of plays tricks on us.
Uh, we are our own worst enemyuh when it comes to investing
because we have this thingcalled emotions and psychology.
And so we often um, and it's andyou can see it in markets, when
markets go up after long periodsof time, people tend to get more
confident, if not overconfident.
(26:24):
Some of the biggest amounts ofassets that go into the stock
market are usually right beforeit collapses.
Interesting.
The long-term trend finallypeople feel comfortable.
Well, if it's gone up for fiveor six years, it can only keep
going up.
So they fool themselves intogoing in bigger and more risky
right at a time when it's whenit's probably the least likely
(26:45):
to be good for them.
And and vice versa.
When markets fall precipitously,like in 2008, when you moved to
the country, we were seeing amarket that fell 50%.
People were selling, most of theselling occurred right towards
the bottom of that market thatpeople should have been buying.
So this book was really bornfrom looking back at past
(27:06):
investor mistakes that I've seenthem make and making uh lists of
them.
Things like fear of missing out,FOMO, which we're familiar with,
right?
Of course, yeah.
Um, and lots of others are allpacked in the book.
And it's another book abouteducating investors to not let
their human brain um allow themto make these horrible mistakes.
(27:26):
And that's part of um theAcademy of Finance, which is a
nonprofit I started to teachhigh school and college kids to
be better investors.
And we start out with the bookand teaching them to get the
right mindset to be a goodinvestor, and then we teach them
all the other fundamentals ofwhat it takes to be out there in
the investing world.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (27:44):
Wow, the psychology of investing, and
again, the education that goesinto tricking our minds that we
should always be positive aboutthe outcomes, possible outcomes,
and have that mindset.
That's fascinating.
I thank you so much for the giftbecause I will read it.
And uh maybe that will be thefirst book that I start my kids
with when it comes to financialliteracy and education.
(28:07):
James, it's been such a pleasureand honor to have you.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
And uh, once again,congratulations on the lovely
marketing trick with Main StreetResearch.
Um, I would have to say that umyou have definitely coined the
phrase, and we're followingafter with Peter.
But thank you so much onceagain.
(28:29):
Pleasure to have met you and toall of our viewers and
listeners.
Please make sure to follow theMoney Signal Podcast on all
major social media platforms andcheck out our website,
moneysignalpodcast.com.
See you soon!
When is the best time to start financially
planning?
SPEAKER_00 (00:03):
Yesterday.
I was a really lucky kid.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (00:05):
I'm a big believer that numbers hold
specific powers.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
We are our own worst enemy when it comes to investing
because we have this thingcalled emotions and psychology.
Technology has dramaticallychanged the business.
It's a safer world to be aninvestor.
There's more transparency,there's less cost, and markets
are more liquid.
Meaning, if I really want tosell my Microsoft, I literally
(00:28):
can sell it in one second.
To save more, you need to workmore.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (00:38):
Welcome to the Money Signal podcast from
Main Street to Wall Street,where today I am joined by James
Demert, founder and CEO of MainStreet Research.
Hey James, so good to have youhere.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
Thanks for having me.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (00:56):
I uh before I had heard of you, um, this is
like the backstory and contextof again our meeting, but before
I had heard of you, when uhPeter and I decided to do this
podcast, we were very interestedin figuring out uh and coining
specific phrases from amarketing perspective that would
work well in our favor.
(01:17):
So again, I'm the marketing guruand branding expert.
And both of us knew that Peterrepresents Wall Street.
That's pretty clear.
And I really speak on MainStreet stages because I analyze
consumer behavior.
And in financial terms,obviously, Main Street is
(01:39):
considered anything that has totouch with consumers.
So we were both pretty much seton the title from Main Street to
Wall Street.
And I started uh looking upbasically names for the podcast
that could work, and Main Streetinstantly popped up with you and
Main Street research.
(01:59):
So my first thought was like,wow, how small is the world?
Um, and then I had actuallyrealized that I recognize you
from a lot of the TV interviewsacross platforms and TV networks
that both you and I do.
So honestly, it's uh very funnyhow the stars align.
And I'm very grateful that youwere able to come here.
Now, I'd love to learn moreabout before we even get to Main
(02:22):
Street research, which I lovedata and I love research.
I'd like to learn more aboutyou.
How did you get into finance andhow did you get into investment
and uh private businesses andentrepreneurship?
SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
Yeah, thanks for asking.
It's a great story.
Um, I guess I think that becauseit's mine.
Um and there's some crosscurrents between how um I named
it Main Street and what you do.
And um, I was a really luckykid, is what I'd like to start
with.
You know, I was a um uh at areally young age, my uncle had
the Wall Street Journal, and Iremember seeing all the figures
(02:56):
in the charts on the on theactual paper back then, and just
being fascinated.
What is that?
And um, this is way beforegaming and all that other stuff,
and I just had this fascination,what is that?
And and he would teach me alittle bit about it, and I must
have been maybe a youngteenager.
And um, and then when I went tocollege, I was I was an early
(03:17):
adapter of the internship.
You know, now it's uh verypopular, hard to get internships
these days.
Yeah.
And um, I I knew I want to chasethis thing about the figures on
the newspaper.
And I worked at a company uh atthe time called Rothschild, LF
Rothschild.
And um, this is my second yearof college.
(03:37):
And so uh there was a guy namedMike Donahue.
He said, uh, you know, he was inthe investment business.
Rothschild was a popular nameback then with Lehman Brothers
and Smith Barney.
This is back in the mid 80s, andhe said, and I showed a lot of
interest and during the summerfor the internship, which was
again rare.
Um, and he said, kid, I'll teachyou everything I know.
(03:59):
You seem like you really likethis.
And um, and I think one of themessages that I try to tell uh
my students, because now we runa nonprofit uh teaching
students, is try to find yourpassion at a young age.
And so as I say, you know, I'm alucky kid.
I really found that passion.
And so I worked with this uhthis at that point older guy who
(04:19):
taught me a lot.
And uh he said to me, you know,uh, I went to college uh not far
away, he said, look during theschool year, if you want to
carve some time out, you cancome back in and you know work
uh minimum wage, I think it was.
And I was happy to do so.
And so we worked side by sidefor a couple years, and boy, it
was so inspiring.
(04:40):
And it really set the journeyfor this career that I consider
to be uh fun, not necessarily awork, um, which is, you know,
again, uh so grateful to havethat experience.
Um, so I came out of collegewith all my licenses, um, you
know, so at a really young age,so I sort of a bit of ahead of
(05:01):
my peers uh upon graduation.
And um then I went to work for amuch larger organization,
another one kind of likeRothschild, uh, which you
probably heard of, LehmanBrothers.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (05:13):
Yes, that one I've heard of.
I'm not in finance, but I haveheard of Lehman Brothers.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:17):
And um, and that's you know, the inspiration uh of
Main Street research came fromworking at big institutions like
that, where I learned managingmoney and and helping investors
that are institutionalinvestors.
Wasn't really I wasn't reallyattracted to that.
I wanted to get closer to the tothe client satisfaction, the the
(05:40):
humans, uh, the families.
Um, and so that's uh working umat um at a big firm like Lehman
made me yearn.
Where is this where's the clientsatisfaction?
And that's what really gavebirth to leaving the big place,
starting my own organization.
(06:00):
And um, you know, and the nameMain Street Research, it came
from a couple of things.
One was um, and I was youngthen, I wasn't married, no kids,
so I could take the risk ofstarting a business.
And uh I found a wonderful spotto do this and outside of San
Francisco where I was living atthe time.
And it was on Main Street.
(06:22):
And I thought to myself, this isa perfect street because it's
sort of a neighborhood.
Um, it's about people, notinstitutions.
Um, and I said to myself, Well,I'm on Main Street, let's call
it Main Street Research, and umit'll be focused on managing
money for families and hopefullysecond generation and third
(06:45):
generation of families.
And then later, and now it'sevolved to families and
nonprofits, which is kind ofwhere our heart is.
So I was a lucky kid.
I I just got the bug early.
Um, I still have the bug.
Um, and I just love working withuh individuals, families, and
nonprofits.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (07:03):
That's such a sweet story and so amazing.
Uh it I mean, I always I'm a bigbeliever in besides research and
data, also in this is a sidenote in numerology.
Although I don't know, I don'tunderstand necessarily how to do
it myself.
Um, I'm a big believer thatnumbers hold specific powers and
so do names, right?
(07:24):
Name of a podcast or name of acompany.
So the fact that you umappreciated Main Street and
obviously your experience acrossyour professional career, and
you were able to put all of theknowledge together and create
Main Street research forsomething special that can help
families that can helpphilanthropic um also
(07:46):
opportunities and organizationsis awesome.
And I love that you have in yournaming research too.
I think it um from brandingperspective, once again, when I
looked you up, I thought it wasso interesting because very
often when you see these biginstitutions, it's a name.
So Lima Brothers, okay.
If I'm someone, I am fromBulgaria, if I'm someone who's
(08:08):
in Bulgarian, here's LimaBrothers, like I wouldn't
necessarily know what it isright away, right?
So I congratulate you again onthe great choice of naming your
company and uh on the fact thatit has to do again with like
research and data, which I loveso much.
Now let's get back to like whatspecifically, so you had your
all of your licenses, which forour listeners and viewers who
(08:31):
are in non-financial, because Iknow we have um everyone from
Main Street to Wall Streetlistening here.
Those are the financialcertifications in order for you
to be able to trade.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_00 (08:42):
Yeah, back then it was the series 65 and or the
series 63 and the series seven,which was a monster exam uh that
would take, I think, six hours,morning and afternoon, uh, very
rigorous.
And um, this the past fail rate,I think, was 60%.
Yeah.
So it was really difficult.
And I was lucky to take it as a,you know, as a college uh kid at
(09:05):
the time.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (09:06):
And when you took those exams, you basically
could then go and and trade andexecute um trades on specific on
behalf of specific clients.
Is that what you did at Lehman?
SPEAKER_00 (09:15):
Yeah, and that's what you needed the license that
sort of spoke to um you're gonnabe responsible and um and you
know, follow certain guidelinesand understand all the
instruments.
And I think it really was andstill is a great platform for
people if you're interested ingetting in the business.
You know, going and getting yourseries seven is a great thing.
Um yeah, it allows you to uhconduct business with a client.
(09:40):
And back then, as it is, I guessa little bit now, it was really
by phone or in person.
And um, so you needed thelicenses to be able to be a
licensed uh broker, is what wewould call it then.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (09:53):
And after leaving Lehman, you immediately
started Main Street research.
How did you read the signal interms of what specifically Main
Street research should offer?
SPEAKER_00 (10:03):
Great question.
And it was the driving force ofmaking the change.
One thing that I noticed in thatin that era, this was a popular
thing.
For people to have arelationship with an investment
professional, they had to pay acommission to buy and sell
securities.
And so the person who waslicensed, the broker, kind of
(10:25):
had an incentive to buy and sellmore often because the more
often they would buy and sell,right?
It was very self-serving for thebroker.
And that's why there was a lotof legal problems in the 70s and
80s with brokers doing what wecall churning, right?
Buying and selling on behalf ofthe client, but the client maybe
not necessarily benefiting, butthe broker doing so.
(10:46):
So um, back in 1993 is when Istarted Main Street research,
um, my goal was the families,hopefully eventually nonprofits,
but it was really to create adifferent um mechanism to
compensate myself and hopefullywhen I have colleagues.
And that, and so I was an earlyadapter of paying a fee based on
(11:08):
the value of the portfolio.
If the value of the portfoliogoes up, we might get paid a
little bit more.
But if the value goes down, weget paid less.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (11:17):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (11:18):
And no interest in the transaction commissions uh
or being paid for the buying andthe selling.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (11:24):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (11:24):
So it was back then that was a very unique idea.
And um, in fact, it was so itwas it's kind of funny now.
I had to explain it to people.
They they didn't understand.
Oh, you're just gonna charge me1% on the value.
I've never heard of such athing.
What about all the buys andsells?
I'm like, no, well, we'll putthe money at Charles Schwab.
(11:46):
That way I can't have access.
By the way, for your viewers,that's a safer way.
Never give your investments tosomeone and have them putting it
in their own name.
Make sure it's in a separatecustodian, is what we call it.
That's what Schwab is.
So I I had an agreement withSchwab, and and then clients
would put the money there andthey would just pay me.
(12:06):
If I did well, I got paid more.
And that was a fabulous uharrangement for the client.
And I I used um some you know,some media attention to to sort
of get some momentum around thatidea because it wasn't real
popular back then.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (12:23):
That's a fascinating model because as
someone who is very um new toinvesting, I find you you
mentioned Schwab because I justgot an email that my first
investment in Charles Schwab umwas in 2011.
So I'm a recent investor.
Um, and it sounds like what youdid and what the approach you
(12:44):
had was so novel at the timebecause it was so safe.
And um, for younger oruneducated investors, including
myself to a certain degree,that's almost makes it feel cozy
and makes it feel very nicebecause I know that you're not
gonna skin me at the end of themonth when it comes to how my
(13:05):
portfolio performs.
SPEAKER_00 (13:07):
Yeah, there's an alignment, right, between how
the investment person'scompensated and what your
results are.
In fact, we've taken that to auh uh even a bigger degree in
the last 20 years.
I can't believe I've had thefirm now for 32 years, but about
20 years ago, we we still have afee that's related to the assets
only.
But now we have a fee that'salso a lower asset management
(13:30):
fee and then a performance fee.
So it's a little bit more like,wow, if they don't do well, they
even pay less.
But if they do great, they payus a bit of a bonus.
And you know, clients loveanything that further aligns
their results with thecompensation.
Wow.
It's a great value proposition.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (13:47):
It's a wonderful value proposition
again.
As I love safety when it comesto finance and investments, as
someone, I'm sure, as all of ourlisteners, everyone works very
hard for their dollar.
So you want to always thinkcarefully about it.
Now, when it comes to youmentioned a few things, and I'm
gonna bring you back to both ofthem.
One of them is technology.
(14:08):
So Charles Schwab, um, I thinkmostly kind of represents like a
different thought, and I thinkthat's why they were so
successful as an institution.
So I'd love to hear more aboutlike the technological journey
of how things have changedthroughout the years and your
experience.
So starting Main Streetresearch, I mean, you saw Lehman
(14:31):
Brothers, and I'm sure there aremany lessons with Lehman
Brothers.
Um, but how has technologychanged what you guys do for
existing clients over these 32years?
I think you mentioned thatyou've had the business now.
SPEAKER_00 (14:46):
Yeah, I think technology has made it easier
for clients to understand whatwe're doing and other advisors,
I hope.
Um, and also it's made it muchmore efficient for us to do what
we do.
As an aside, um, Rothschild uhshortly after I left went out of
business.
Maybe you know thathistorically.
(15:07):
And of course, shortly after Ileft Lee Lehman Human Brothers,
they went out of business.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (15:11):
So the lesson is never let James leave.
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
Fortunately, after 32 years, we're still here.
I think those business modelsactually weren't great.
So and the world kind of movedaway from those.
But technology has umdramatically changed um the
business.
You know, I uh we've met on theNew York Stock Exchange floor,
and you can see it right there.
Not as many people, a lot moretechnology.
And that's making um, I thinkfor the end user investor, for
(15:39):
your viewers, it's a safer worldto be an investor because
there's more transparency,there's less cost, fees,
brokerage fees, commissions, um,and um and and and markets are
more liquid, meaning if I reallywant to sell my Microsoft, I
literally can sell it in onesecond.
(16:00):
I don't have to wait a long timeand maybe the price is
different.
Right.
So I think technology hasallowed for the transactions to
be more safe.
Um, there's a lot moreguardrails around safety for the
investor.
And then from an investmentadvisor standpoint, I get these
really cool statements that wegenerate ourselves from our
in-house technology that make itsuper easy for the client to
(16:23):
understand.
And for a lot of clients, thiswhole thing is like a foreign
language.
Yeah.
So I can show them this is howmuch stock exposure versus your
safe bond exposure.
This is how we've done since westarted after fees, the net
return.
And you can compare that to yourlong-term financial planning.
And we can see, oh, yeah, you'reon track to go where you need to
(16:45):
go to retire, to leave money tothe next generation, to be able
to give money back to yourcommunity.
And so that technology is verykey to the relationship with the
client.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (16:56):
I'd love to learn more about your work with
private clients and families.
Um, I'm big as an immigrant.
I'm big on um understanding howthe generational planning works.
I have two kids currently, I runseveral businesses, and really
it would be very beneficial tome as a human to understand when
(17:18):
I think of building my kids'future, are there any specific
steps that need to be taken?
And how do your current how doyou work with your current
clients, like from startingpoint to, you know, building the
generations ahead for them?
SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
Yeah, I I I think, you know, the key with families
is to bring it down to a levelthat's really easy to
understand.
A lot of our clients that are,you know, have built up some
savings and and and need toinvest, they're lawyers, they're
doctors, they're um, they'reentrepreneurs, um, they're not
(17:56):
stock market experts.
So I think that one of thethings that we've really gotten
um good at is explaining thingsin easy fashion and being an
educator.
You know, I um I think that partof being a great investment
manager is you're an educator.
Um, you're drawing a map forfrom here to where they need to
(18:18):
go as far as the the growth ofthe assets.
And you're part therapist, youknow.
Markets can make people jitteryand and um fearful um or maybe
uh overconfident.
And um so working with familiesis what we really enjoy because
of that human aspect.
And I love the idea of a clientwho who has gotten their assets
(18:42):
to a certain level, and they sayto themselves, you know, my wife
and I and and the kids, we justlike to at some point have the
option not to work.
How how can we do that?
And and drawing out, you know,in a very specific financial
model, looking at all theirassets and being, you know,
sometimes very direct.
Like you need to save more, youneed to work more longer.
(19:04):
Um based on certain risks andreturn.
We can make anything happen.
The question is, you know, howdo you want it to look and to
feel?
So it's a it's a partnership,which I think we all enjoy at
the firm.
And there really is nothing moresatisfying than seeing their
goals get reached.
Part of the education, I think,is really key because you know,
(19:25):
investors can often be scaredwhen markets go down, like
recently with the Mideast uhwar, um, or they can become
overconfident.
And part of our job is toeducate them about the history
of markets and make sure theydon't panic too much when when
everybody else is panicking, andmaking sure they don't get too
overconfident when things looklike they can they can only go
(19:45):
higher.
And and I think one of thethings that we've learned, and
because we now work with manygenerations of the same family,
is bringing those young peopleinto the conversation earlier
than even the parents think isappropriate.
Bring those kids in when they're11 or 12.
They're smarter than we than youwould imagine.
And I want to give them the bugthat I got as an early teenager
(20:07):
in investing, if I can.
So we invite and we do someeducational uh stuff around
that.
And generally speaking, it worksout really well because then the
parents are happy, right?
That the kids are learning.
It works out for everybody.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (20:20):
And when is the best time to start
financially planning?
Is it is there a too late or tooearly?
SPEAKER_00 (20:26):
Yesterday.
It really is.
I but I think that also whathappens with many people is they
feel like it's just too late.
You know, I I should have donethat, you know, 10 years ago.
So I won't do it.
Or, you know, I have inertia.
And um, you know, the it's likea planting a tree, right?
The best time to plant a treewas 20 years ago, the next time,
(20:49):
next best time is today.
Really, um, I think some peoplefeel like it's a daunting
experience.
I really don't want to know thetruth, how long it might take if
it's possible.
And I would say to most peoplewho have those feelings, it's uh
it's much more possible than youthink.
And particularly the the theearlier you you you just go
after it and just find somebodywho's a really good listener and
(21:12):
has a great, you know, number ofyears doing it and a lot of
satisfied clients.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (21:16):
I I find finance again, years ago when I
moved to the states, uh, I foundfinance just so complex and
overwhelming, really.
It it makes you uh completelyoverwhelmed in terms of what you
could do and again, risk andvolatility and like what's good
when it comes to investing andyou know, maybe what to stay
(21:40):
away from.
And having a good educator, Ifound is incredibly important.
So my mentor who lives in uh SanFrancisco, she taught me early
on in my life in America that ifyou have a dollar, that's how
she explained investing.
If you have a dollar, you wantto send your dollar to go to
work every day and bring it.
A friend.
(22:01):
So then you have severaldollars, and then you send the
two friends then back on themarket the next day to find you
a few more friends.
So you accumulate and that thereare safe spaces and safe places
basically in terms of investing.
But I love what you said aboutthe education piece because um
it it's very often it's crazy tothink, but there are many adults
(22:24):
out there who feel overwhelmedbecause they never got educated.
That's not what our system,education system, I think
globally is really doing a poorjob at teaching us about money
and finance.
So I love that you mentionedthat education piece because I
know how important it is.
I'd love to learn more aboutthat institutional aspect.
So you mentioned in thebeginning of the interview that
(22:46):
you don't only work withfamilies, but you also work with
institutions and nonprofitorganizations.
So I'd love to hear more aboutthat.
SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
Yeah, I think it's important that we all give back
if we can afford to.
In fact, with clients, we sortof teach them like if there's
room, right?
We want to inspire them to giveback.
Even if it's a small amount, ifeveryone gives a small amount,
it has a huge impact on thenonprofit space.
Nonprofits are typicallyorganizations in our local
(23:16):
communities or globalcommunities that are giving
back, helping those in need,whether it's income, education,
what have you.
So I'm just really inspired andI love to get a new client
that's a nonprofit so I can helpthem grow those assets and
protect those assets in the badmarkets.
And I and I really think thatthat's important.
(23:37):
Um, a good investment advisorshould be able to go up when the
market goes up, but a reallygood investment advisor also
should be able to let you knowwhen markets get really
horrible, we're gonna dosomething about it.
And that that's a differentiatorat Main Street Research.
Um, so our work in nonprofits umis we were very enthusiastic.
(23:57):
And um, and uh, you know, we Iwrote my second book I wrote was
actually all about investing fornonprofits, teaching again,
teaching again, nonprofits, howto have the right documents in
place.
There's there's a lot ofregulations, so we know all
about that.
But more importantly, have aninvestment policy that has a
(24:18):
roadmap of how we can increasethis value so we can give back
to the community.
But there's even a little bit inthere because I personally am an
advocate in my personal life ofgiving back.
So I'm teaching them how to geta donor, how to retain your
donors.
As a donor myself, it was aneasy chapter to write.
And it's really important fornonprofits to understand where
(24:41):
do these donors, where are they,and how can I attract them?
So we're investing fornonprofits to try to make them
bigger in assets, but we're alsoeducating them.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (24:50):
And Main Street research, if I'm correct,
has a large portfolio of severalbillion dollars.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
Yeah, 3 billion.
Well, it's 2.8 as of yesterday.
Who knows?
It moves around.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (25:04):
That's incredible.
I I love um I love the story.
I love meeting entrepreneurs andagain, I love self-built.
Um, it just reminds me again ofhow lucky we are to live in
America as someone who moved toAmerica from another place to be
able to build here and um amassknowledge along the way and
share that knowledge and alsoshare the wealth, which is very
(25:26):
important to me as well.
Um, in so you mentioned you haveseveral books.
Uh, one of them is actuallysitting in front of us, which
we'll make sure to link for ourviewers and listeners, which is
called The Wall Wall StreetLessons.
Tell me more about the book.
What prompted you to write thisbook?
SPEAKER_00 (25:41):
It what prompted me is my history of working with
families uh and individuals.
Um and you know, typically whensomebody, by the time they get
to us, they've had some badexperiences doing this
themselves, or they had anadvisor that just didn't work
out so well.
And usually it's because I liketo say um the human brain kind
(26:03):
of plays tricks on us.
Uh, we are our own worst enemyuh when it comes to investing
because we have this thingcalled emotions and psychology.
And so we often um, and it's andyou can see it in markets, when
markets go up after long periodsof time, people tend to get more
confident, if not overconfident.
(26:24):
Some of the biggest amounts ofassets that go into the stock
market are usually right beforeit collapses.
Interesting.
The long-term trend finallypeople feel comfortable.
Well, if it's gone up for fiveor six years, it can only keep
going up.
So they fool themselves intogoing in bigger and more risky
right at a time when it's whenit's probably the least likely
(26:45):
to be good for them.
And and vice versa.
When markets fall precipitously,like in 2008, when you moved to
the country, we were seeing amarket that fell 50%.
People were selling, most of theselling occurred right towards
the bottom of that market thatpeople should have been buying.
So this book was really bornfrom looking back at past
(27:06):
investor mistakes that I've seenthem make and making uh lists of
them.
Things like fear of missing out,FOMO, which we're familiar with,
right?
Of course, yeah.
Um, and lots of others are allpacked in the book.
And it's another book abouteducating investors to not let
their human brain um allow themto make these horrible mistakes.
(27:26):
And that's part of um theAcademy of Finance, which is a
nonprofit I started to teachhigh school and college kids to
be better investors.
And we start out with the bookand teaching them to get the
right mindset to be a goodinvestor, and then we teach them
all the other fundamentals ofwhat it takes to be out there in
the investing world.
Tsvetta Kaleynska (27:44):
Wow, the psychology of investing, and
again, the education that goesinto tricking our minds that we
should always be positive aboutthe outcomes, possible outcomes,
and have that mindset.
That's fascinating.
I thank you so much for the giftbecause I will read it.
And uh maybe that will be thefirst book that I start my kids
with when it comes to financialliteracy and education.
(28:07):
James, it's been such a pleasureand honor to have you.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
And uh, once again,congratulations on the lovely
marketing trick with Main StreetResearch.
Um, I would have to say that umyou have definitely coined the
phrase, and we're followingafter with Peter.
But thank you so much onceagain.
(28:29):
Pleasure to have met you and toall of our viewers and
listeners.
Please make sure to follow theMoney Signal Podcast on all
major social media platforms andcheck out our website,
moneysignalpodcast.com.
See you soon!
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