What happens when the person writing financial regulations has actually lived under them? In this episode of the Money Pot LIVE from Money2020 Asia, host Scarlett Sieber sits down with Robert Troy, Ireland's Minister of State for Financial Services, for a conversation that bridges the often-divided worlds of policy and entrepreneurship.
Minister Troy's journey is unique: at 21, he was managing customer relationships at a bank branch. He later ran his family's post office and built his own business in rural Ireland—experiencing firsthand the weight of compliance and the real-world impact of regulatory decisions. Now, he's leading Ireland's financial services strategy and modernizing the sector.
What You'll Learn:
- How Ireland's Innovation Hub (600+ companies engaged) and Sandbox guide rather than gatekeep
- Why some friction between regulators and industry is healthy, but collaboration is essential
- Practical Founder Advice:Engage early with regulators—quality regulation becomes your competitive advantage
- How proportionate regulation considers company size and risk levels
- Ireland's Investment Challenge: Shifting from a nation of savers (€180B in low-yield accounts) to investors
This conversation humanizes policy, offering founders a roadmap for engaging with regulators constructively while reminding policymakers that the best regulation comes from understanding real-world business impact.
Recorded live from Money2020 Asia in Bangkok, following Minister Troy's participation in Policy20.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
Welcome to the Money Pot, where we explore the ideas,
innovations, and individualsshaping the future of money.
I'm your host, Scarlett Sieber,the Chief Strategy Growth
Officer here at Money2020.
And today we're coming to youlive with the electric energy.
You can't feel it right now, butyou can see it out there, live
from Money2020 Asia, the showfloor here in Bangkok.
(00:26):
My guest today has a perspectivethat is genuinely unique in the
world of financial services andall the policy around that.
We've got Robert Troy, who'sIreland's Minister of State for
Financial Services, creditunions, and insurance.
You got all three in one.
That's quite a big job here.
What makes this story verydifferent, though, is before he
was writing the rules, he wasliving by them.
(00:48):
At 21, he was managing a bankbranch, one of the youngest in
the country.
He then returned home to ruralIreland to run his family's post
office and build his ownbusiness.
He knows what it's like to makepayroll, to navigate compliance,
to wonder if a new regulationwill help or hurt your bottom
line.
Now he's leading the developmentof Ireland's next international
financial services strategy: Ireland for finance, overseeing (01:09):
undefined
insurance reform and modernizingthe credit union sector.
He's just come from Policy 20,where regulators and industry
leaders have been deep inconversations about how we build
frameworks that enableinnovation while protecting
consumers at the same time.
Not an easy job.
(01:29):
Today we're going to be talkingabout something that doesn't get
enough airtime, the human sideof regulation.
And you all know how much timewe spend talking about
regulation.
What happens when policymakersthink like entrepreneurs?
How do we bridge the gap betweengovernment and industry?
And what would change if weapproached regulation with more
empathy, more humility, and morecollaboration?
(01:51):
So with that, Minister Troy,welcome to the Money Pot.
Thank you for joining us.
Thank you.
It's my pleasure to be here.
So let's dive into it because Iknow you've got a jam-packed
schedule.
Let's start back at thebeginning.
You know, I gave a little bit ofa background to start off.
When you were managing a bankbranch at 21, that's incredible,
by the way, being a 21-year-oldmanaging a bank.
SPEAKER_01 (02:11):
Well, let's just uh I suppose uh correct the record
somewhat.
I wasn't actually the manager ofthe branch.
What I was was a customerrelationship manager.
So I was dealing with my ownportfolio customers.
So predominantly uhprofessionals and SMEs, I was
their point of contact, who theywould reach out to to help with
their financial services, uh fixuh loans for them, uh, and offer
(02:35):
investment advice.
So um while I was part of themanagement team, I wasn't the
ultimate manager of the branch.
SPEAKER_00 (02:42):
But still, that that's that's fascinating.
Thank you for thatclarification.
But you were obviously directlyinvolved with your customers.
What did that teach you buildingabout financial services from
the ground up, talking to yourcustomers day in and day out?
SPEAKER_01 (02:56):
Well, I suppose uh I always viewed that role, and as
I do, I viewed the role that Ihave now is what does this, what
impact will this have on thecustomer?
Um so when I was in a bankbranch, uh dealing on a daily
basis with people who werecoming to me.
Perhaps it was a small businesswho look at look who was seeking
(03:16):
a new credit line to expand uhthe business growth.
Uh, perhaps they were lookingfor uh investment advice or
maybe to talk in relation toprovide uh pension supports for
their for their staff for thelong term.
Um and it was working with themto ensure that you enable them
to expand and grow.
(03:38):
And I saw that role uh in thebank as a key enabler uh for the
business growth and also interms of for the individual
enabler to help them progresswith their life, whether it's a
mortgage at a particular stageor an investment decision.
So I always took the view uh howwill this best work for the
customer?
SPEAKER_00 (03:59):
Yeah, that's a being customer-centric is definitely
an important way to think aboutit.
Let's talk a little bit furtherabout your journey when you
moved back to rural Ireland andwhen ran your family's post
office.
Talk a little bit about that.
What was that experience like?
SPEAKER_01 (04:13):
Well, look at it, I suppose um, if I'm being 100%
honest, the reason why I tookover the post office was because
I had moved away from myconstituency to work in the
financial services in Dublin.
I moved back home.
There was an opportunity tocontest um an election, and I
saw my interaction on a dailybasis in the post office as an
(04:34):
opportunity to meet uh all myprospective uh constituents.
Um, my parents wanted to retire,so it was an opportunity there.
Sadly, um, you know, when youare at an event like Money 2020
and you see such innovation andhow financial services has
evolved so rapidly over a spotsmall space of time, it just
(04:56):
reinforces that unfortunately,what is and was a great
financial institution in termsof uh on Pust, they haven't
moved with the Times.
And a lot of um On Pust'snetwork of offices are now
withering on the vine, um,they're dying off, people are no
longer utilizing them because umthey haven't moved with the
(05:19):
times.
Uh, and it's sad because thereis um a very it's on pust as a
very reputable brand in inIreland.
It has a very good, stronggeographical presence right
across uh all um small towns andvillages.
Um so there was an opportunitythere, uh maybe to partner with
(05:41):
some of the innovative financialum creators that we see
demonstrating their theirproductivity here in money 2020,
but um that that was nevercapitalized on, and I think um
that that's regrettable and amissed opportunity from an Irish
government perspective.
SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
When you were running your business, you were
on the receiving end ofregulation.
I totally get the points you'remaking about the technological
advancements and who was movingforward or wasn't, but when you
think about the role of abusiness owner dealing with your
own compliance requirements,reporting obligations, et
cetera, were there specificmoments or a specific regulation
where you thought, this doesn'tmake sense.
(06:23):
Why is this here?
Or something that you werereally excited about that said,
I'm I'm happy that this herebecause it's actually protecting
me.
Can you just kind of like talkabout now on the other end of it
your role with regulation as abusiness owner?
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
I suppose one very clear example was when I was
working in the bank, I was, as Isaid, a customer relationship
manager, I was a mortgageadvisor, I was an investment
advisor.
Um, I was working in the bank ata time when there was huge
demand for mortgages in Ireland.
Um, the rules in terms of howmuch and who could borrow were
(06:56):
relaxed in Ireland, and we sawthat actually contributed to um
part of our financial crash in2008-2009.
Um, and now the rules in termsof who can avail of a mortgage,
in terms of the lending limits,uh how much an individual can
borrow based on the strength oftheir income, how long they're
(07:18):
employed, the sense ofpermanency, um, their age, uh,
that has kind of been morestringently applied in the last
number of years.
Um, and I can really see therationale why, because um, back
in 2008-2009, uh, we had afinancial crash.
There was a global financialcrash.
(07:40):
Um, a lot of people suffered inIreland.
Um, some people wereoverborrowed.
Um, and I suppose there was anappetite and a lack of
regulation that facilitatedthat.
So looking back now, I can seethat perhaps if we hadn't
relaxed some of the lendingrules uh earlier in the early
(08:02):
2000s, maybe some of the peoplewho got into financial
difficulty as a result of theinternational financial crash uh
may have been better protected.
So I think going back to what Isaid at the at the outset, you
know, when you are implementingrules and regulations, you have
to think of how this is going toprotect uh the consumer uh in
(08:24):
the long run.
Um later this year, one of thebig ticket items we'll be
developing in uh in the Irishgovernment and the Department of
Finance is a new savings andinvestment account.
We currently have 180 billionsitting on low-yielding deposit
accounts.
So that's money that's notworking to as as as
(08:46):
advantageously as it could.
Um, and we are a nation ofsavers rather than a nation of
investors.
So my line minister and I,working with the officials in
the department, are currentlyworking on new proposals in
terms of how we can design anaccount that will incentivize um
the Irish citizen to startinvesting, to look into shares
(09:09):
and equities rather than justputting their money on deposit
account.
And I think critical to that isgoing to be financial literacy,
is going to be ensuring that theconsumer is advised of the
benefits, but also some of thedraw drawbacks.
Um, and that's where I thinkthere is more work to be done
(09:33):
from an Irish governmentperspective, uh, our regulator,
the central bank, uh, to CCPC,that's the consumer protection
commission in Ireland, to ensurethat our citizens are adequately
informed and educated on how totake better uh financial
decisions for themselves.
SPEAKER_00 (09:54):
That is such a, I love the the way that you phrase
that, a nation of savers versusinvestors and the role of
financial literacy in education.
That really hits home for me.
Um, I grew up, you know,financially unstable in a
financially unstable home forsome time.
And I went to college and tookout loans for 13.5% interest.
And I was like, hey, I'm goingto New York, I don't care what
(10:15):
it tells me, I'm just gonna dothis.
And I didn't realize like howcrazy that was because I didn't
build up credit.
So in any case, I can certainlyempathize and relate to the idea
of the lack of financialliteracy and the impact that
that has.
And then to your point,especially when you don't have
that, your credit, like youryour desire to go and focus on
if you have a little bit ofmoney, let's save it versus
(10:36):
invest it, where that's whencompound interest comes into
play and all those other greatthings.
So let's uh fast forward totoday.
I really appreciate that thatbackground and perspective.
You're now the person helping towrite the rules.
You get to be on the other sideof the table, shape the
strategy, set the direction forIreland's financial services
sector.
When you made the transitionfrom business owner to
policymaker, what was the thingthat maybe struck you the most
(11:00):
that, you know, how the otherside thinks?
What was most surprising to you?
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
But I think first and foremost, and I I I always I
live by the belief that um aspolicymakers, as legislators,
uh, we don't create any jobs.
Um, but we have theresponsibility to create an
environment that will create jobcreation, will support uh
businesses develop and grow.
And one of the frustrations Ihad on the first day entering
(11:26):
government, and I still have ittoday, is maybe some of the
speeds of decisions uh by thepublic service.
And I accept that government andin particular permanent
government uh have a duty toprotect the consumer and ensure
that we have trust in the marketwhile at the same time uh
supporting innovation andgrowth.
(11:49):
From an Irish governmentperspective, obviously we're a
member of the EU, and as aconsequence of that, some of our
rules are emanate uh within theEU.
We've to align rules with theEU, and there's benefits of
that, you know, in terms of evenuh the recent uh harmonised
(12:09):
regulations for cross-borderpayments, uh sees it's much more
easier for companies to transfermoney within the EU than maybe
when you look at the Asianmarket, which is a lot more
fragmented because uh the rulesare geographically uh located.
Um at the moment, the EU is verystrong now on the whole
(12:31):
competitiveness andsimplification agenda,
acknowledged that maybe um somerules went too far, some rules
were overcomplicated, and weneed to simplify those rules uh
to support uh businesses andsupport our own economies.
From an Irish governmentperspective, um the Central Bank
(12:51):
of Ireland, which is our ownregulator, has recently
published um their own roadmapon further simplification, and
that's where they're reallylooking at proportionality uh
being central uh to the rules uhthat we um implement in in back
home in Ireland.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
I love that concept of you know, it's actually
extremely hard to do thingssimply, but by doing things
simply, you have the ability tomove more quickly and you know
and impact people in a way thatmakes it easier for them to
understand.
Because the way that you, toyour point, kind of foster an
environment of collaboration andinnovation is by making the
rules simple to follow so peopleknow what they're doing and they
(13:32):
can, you know, build, we canhave a lot more entrepreneurs in
the future.
Here, sitting at Money2020 Asia,we're surrounded by innovators
who want to move fast and breakthings.
Um, and at Policy 20, which iswhere you were at a few minutes
ago, the regulators, we haveregulators from all over the
world there, and they're tryingto figure out how to respond to
this concept of moving fast andbreaking things, which is the
(13:53):
fintech entrepreneurs and whatthey like to do.
How do you personally thinkabout that balance?
It's it's quite hard.
Uh, the balance of fosteringinnovation while protecting
consumers.
How do you balance those twothings in your mind?
SPEAKER_01 (14:07):
I think regulation has to be a key part of safe
innovation.
Um, at the end of the day,particularly when you're dealing
with financial services, you'reyou're dealing with people's
money.
Uh, people want to be able totrust whatever new innovation uh
is coming forward.
And from an Irish governmentperspective, the central bank,
which is our independentregulator, established an
(14:29):
innovation hub back in 2018.
And since its establishment todate, over it has had engagement
with over 600 uh innovativecompanies who can go in there,
can uh raise questions, can umdiscuss new technology, uh, get
clarity on what type ofregulation is required for
(14:53):
whatever license they areseeking before they actually put
in a formal application.
So there's a lot of a scopingout exercise, and they can get a
lot of information from that.
Building on that, um last yearthe central bank established an
innovation sandbox.
Um, and again, um the initial uhteam was combating financial
(15:17):
crime, and this year it's uhdealing with innovation and
payments.
So it's it's the central bank,it's the regulator working in
collaboration uh with innovativefirms, guiding them through the
process, and equally from themlearning from the innovators in
terms of what can be done, whatcan be done in a safe way, in a
(15:40):
transparent way, in a way thatuh can build trust by uh the
what the wider population?
SPEAKER_00 (15:48):
Yeah, and 600 companies from you know less
than a decade of the innovationhub existing is quite a
significant milestone.
Do you think that when you whenyou think about the 600
companies, were there any, Iknow this is the central bank,
but were there specific types ofcompanies?
Was it more lending, payments,because we've been talking a bit
(16:08):
about cross-border.
What was the mix of thosecompanies?
SPEAKER_01 (16:12):
Well, I think from from the innovation hub, it was
a broad variety, it was quitediversified mix of companies.
Uh in Ireland, we're a you know,we're a global hub for financial
services.
Uh, we have a very uh strongfunds industry, we have a very
strong aircraft leasingindustry, the Irish home of a
lot of global tech companies.
(16:33):
Um we with a strong financialservice or a strong fintech um
presence also.
So we've we've quite an array ofdiversified uh subsections of
the financial services operatingin Ireland.
And as a consequence of that, uhthe 600 companies that were
participating and dealing andengaging with the central bank
(16:53):
was quite uh diversified.
Um, but I think what it shows isthe importance of engagement
between uh public and private,the importance of engagement uh
with the regulator.
And that's not asking theregulator to compromise uh
regulations, but it's to give asense of clarity uh to the
(17:17):
innovators.
So the innovators will knowwhat's required of them and the
line of direction uh they needto go.
And one of the earlier um when Iwas appointed to this role back
in in January of last year, andengaging with the various
sectors of the financialservices, one of the things they
would always uh say to me isjust we just need greater
(17:41):
clarity, um, we need greaterspeed of decision making.
Uh let the central bank tell usexactly what they want so that
we can get on and do with it.
And I have to say, um thecentral bank has taken on some
of the feedback that we've beenable to give them uh uh on foot
of our engagement.
And as I said, back in 2016 youhad the innovation hub, we now
(18:05):
have the innovation sandbox, uh,and there is um there is uh
regular engagement there uhbetween the department uh and
the central bank also givenfeedback.
SPEAKER_00 (18:17):
Yeah, I think clarity is one of the key pieces
that you were referencing there,and of course you're you'd be
very well familiar with what'shappening where in my neck of
the woods and you know the thelong-anticipated passing or not
passing of Clarity Act in the USas well, because to your point,
regardless of what thelegislation is, it is about
making it simple and clear forpeople to understand where they
(18:38):
kind of sit within theecosystem.
SPEAKER_01 (18:40):
And proportionate too, because like I mean, you
have um firms at differentstages in their in their growth
phase.
Um, you know, new innovativefirms uh don't have the capacity
that uh a unicorn has, they'renot, they don't have the
resources to hire in the adviceand uh and all of that.
So I think it's it's importantthat regulation is proportionate
(19:01):
uh to the size of the company,but also proportionate to the
risks involved uh with what uhtransactions are being carried
out.
SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
That makes a lot of sense.
So let's get practical for amoment.
You meet with fintech founders,insurre tech startups, credit
union leaders, people who aretrying to innovate within
financial services.
And based on those conversationsthat you're having, what's one
thing that you wish everyfounder understood about how
regulators think?
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
I think I think um innovators, founders know the
reason and the rationale forregulation.
Um, regulation is needed tobuild confidence in any market.
Um, but I think what we need isto have uh proportionate
regulation.
And I think Ireland is veryfortunate.
(19:52):
Um, our regulator would beregarded internationally as
strong, uh as firm, but as veryfair.
Um, so that's a a good sellingpoint from an Irish uh
perspective.
And I think quality regulationalso boosts confidence and it
boosts trust uh in a product, uhin a service, which is in the
(20:13):
long-term interest of thatcompany.
But I think key maybe from thecompany's perspective is early
engagement, is to to engage withthe regulator at a very early
stage of your productdevelopment, of your innovation,
so that you can get guidance interms of exactly what is
(20:33):
required.
And and that goes back to thepoint that I made um earlier on.
Uh when I engaged with industry,the big request of them was let
us know what is required at anearly stage.
Give us clear timelines so thatwe know when we submit the
(20:54):
information that's requested, adecision will be made in an
efficient and timely manner.
Because when you have certaintyand clarity and transparency, as
a business you can plan an awfullot better.
And I think that's where thecentral bank is is operating
currently, but we can alwaysimprove that um in greater
(21:16):
transparency, greater clarityand efficiency.
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
It's one of the things that you said which
really resonates if we thinkabout the positive uh lens from
a fintech uh perspective aswell, is the authority and
credibility that once you gothrough the innovation sandbox
or the other the innovation hubthat you mentioned, you kind of
have that stamp of validationand credibility.
And I can speak to that today.
(21:40):
We had a press uh lunch, we hada bunch of announcements from a
myriad of companies, includingMetacomp.
And one of the first things thatthe president said when she was
talking about their announcementwas around, and we're regulated
by MAS.
So there is, once you do getthat threshold and that
credibility, that it reallyhelps.
SPEAKER_01 (22:00):
It is.
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
And then it helps you accelerate to your point
around trust and everythingelse.
So I totally hear your pointabout you know, as a fintech
founder, to engage early withregulators.
If there was any other advicethat you could give to
entrepreneurs that you talk toto kind of accelerate the
process and learn from themistakes of yesteryear, what
advice would you give?
SPEAKER_01 (22:24):
As a department, we we conduct regular engagement
with key stakeholders.
So, for example, uh we havequarterly meetings with key
stakeholders for financialservices.
We have established a specialtyuh insurance form to ensure that
we engage, we listen to, welisten to industry and we
(22:45):
respond.
But I'm always very consciousthat just to establish these
forums for engagement, we haveto be conscious that they are
results driven and that if theyare to be meaningful when people
give suggestions, we have towork through those suggestions
so we can bring about uh uh uhsolutions to some of the issues
(23:07):
that they face.
Our regulator, the Central Bankof Ireland, uh, they too operate
a financial industry forum, andthat again is senior industry
leaders working with the centralbank and addressing the
challenges that face industry,um, improving uh the
(23:28):
authorization process.
And even central bank has nowestablished uh a gateway keeping
division, which is aboutensuring greater transparency,
greater consistency, and greaterefficiency.
So the innovators, the newcompanies coming in can have
confidence that their engagementwill be dealt with, as I said,
(23:50):
consistently, transparently, uh,and in a timely fashion.
SPEAKER_00 (23:55):
Those are all very important points when you think
about how to do business moreeffectively across lines.
Like, so when we think aboutpolicy 20, one of the things
that was very important for theteam was about bringing the
public and private sectortogether.
And we talked a little bit abouttrust, but if we're being
honest, oftentimes between thosetwo sides, there's a bit of a
(24:17):
trust deficit.
I've spent plenty of time withthe industry, and they think
that the regulators don'tunderstand innovation and
they're moving too slowly, andthe regulators think that
they're not taking this riskseriously enough because, as you
said, we're talking aboutpeople's financial lives here.
There's not much more importantthan that when you think about
people's, you know, credibility.
So you've seen both sides.
(24:38):
How do we, if we could, youknow, go into your brain or you
had your ideal world, MinisterTroy, how do we create trust
better between the public andprivate sector?
SPEAKER_01 (24:49):
I think I think there's a it's a healthy dynamic
that there is an element ofmistrust.
Um, because if industry was veryum favorably disposed to
regulation, you would ask thequestion, are we are we too
light on regulation?
Uh and as somebody who workedthrough the financial crash of
(25:13):
the early 2008 to 2011 and umwas elected to our national par
parliament in 2011, uh and partof the party that had to take
some very difficult decisions inensuring that um we you know we
put the country back on a strongeconomic basis, and we did, and
(25:36):
now we have a very strongeconomy, full employment, uh,
running budget surpluses, andable to make the necessary
investments uh to the challengeswe face today.
But some of the financial crashwas as a result of maybe two
lacks of regulation.
So it goes back to what I saidat the outset.
(25:57):
How do we ensure that ourregulation is fit for purpose?
Um, that the protection of theconsumer is central, that the
consumer has trust, um, but thatit's also proportionate.
And I think that happens throughengagement.
And I've given you a number ofexamples there from an Irish
government perspective throughthe central bank of how we have
(26:20):
specific forums established forthat engagement with industry
and the Department of Finance,uh, establishment of forum with
the central bank and uh and umindustry as well to receive the
feedback.
But I think it's healthy uh thatthere is some element of
friction.
Friction can be healthy too.
(26:41):
Um that you know industryrespects the regulator, respects
the independence of theregulator, and it can benefit
industry in the long run.
As I said, uh Ireland's centralbank would be regarded as firm
but fair.
And so when a company hasauthorization from the central
(27:01):
bank and goes to do business ina new market, it is coming with
a very strong endorsement thatcan be to the benefit of the
company in the long run, also.
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
Yeah, that makes that makes a lot of sense.
You get to see hundreds of ofyou know innovators across
across obviously Ireland andbeyond.
If you were to take a step backand think on a scale of one to
ten about where we're at on theinnovation lifecycle within
financial services, one beingwe're just getting started, ten
(27:31):
being we're done.
We're as innovative as youpossibly could be, where would
you put us right now and likeglobally?
SPEAKER_01 (27:38):
I I honestly couldn't answer that question.
I'm just always amazed at thenew companies that come in with
their ideas and how to get theirheads around that.
Um, as a society, as technologyis continuously evolving, um, we
have to be able to respond tothat.
(27:59):
And one of the challenges uhfrom a government perspective is
to ensure that we have um theright supports in place, uh, but
also to ensure that we have uhthe availability of the right
talent.
And that's why from an Irishgovernment perspective, we are
continuously investing inresearch and development.
(28:19):
We introduced uh new RD orenhanced RD tax credits to
support businesses who want toinvest in research and
development.
We established a new specificdepartment for higher education
and skills.
Uh so we can we have that verymuch as to the forefront of our
(28:40):
policy in terms of ensuring thatwe are making the right
investment in our uh third leveleducation to ensure that we're
producing the talent for thejobs of today and the future.
And the only way that that wecan know that we're doing that
correctly is throughcollaboration between uh the
private and the public.
(29:01):
It's good to have the frictionthere, but it's also good to be
able to work in a collaborativesense as well.
SPEAKER_00 (29:07):
And I think that is the perfect ending because
collaboration is really at theepicenter of what we do at
Money2020.
It's around partnerships andbringing different sides,
different geos, different, youknow, industries together here,
really about the future offinance.
So, with that, Minister Troy,this has been such a valuable
conversation.
What strikes me most is in yourjourney from managing your
(29:29):
customer uh branch manager roleat 21 to running a family
business in rural Ireland toshaping the national financial
services strategy of Ireland.
This gives you perspective thatgenuinely is rare in government.
And we're, I think that Irelandis lucky to have you.
You understand both the promiseand the pain of innovation.
You know what it's like to be onthe receiving side of
(29:49):
regulation, and you know theresponsibility that comes with
actually owning it.
One of the biggest takeawaysfrom this is that regulation
doesn't have to be adversarial.
To your point, it comes all backto collaboration.
For everyone listening, whetheryou're a founder navigating
regulatory uncertainty, afinancial services executive
trying to innovate withinconstraints, or a policymaker
trying to get it right.
(30:10):
I hope this conversation remindsyou that there are humans on
both sides of the table tryingto solve genuinely hard
problems.
And that collaboration, trust,which we talked a lot about, and
mutual understanding aren't justnice to have.
They are absolutely essential ifwe're going to build a financial
system that serves everyone.
Minister Troy, thank you so muchfor joining us on the Money Pot.
(30:32):
And thank you for making yourjourney to Money2020 Asia.
Thank you.
For the rest of you, to ourlisteners, thanks for tuning in
again.
If you enjoyed the episode,subscribe to Money Pot wherever
you get your podcast.
Join the conversation on socialmedia using hashtag moneypot or
hashtag money2020Asia.
If you're building the future offinance, we'd love to see you at
(30:52):
Money2020 events around theworld.
The next one is in Amsterdam inJune, to the second to the
fourth, where technology meetshumanity and where the
conversations that matter arehappening.
Welcome to the Money Pot, where we explore the ideas,
innovations, and individualsshaping the future of money.
I'm your host, Scarlett Sieber,the Chief Strategy Growth
Officer here at Money2020.
And today we're coming to youlive with the electric energy.
You can't feel it right now, butyou can see it out there, live
from Money2020 Asia, the showfloor here in Bangkok.
(00:26):
My guest today has a perspectivethat is genuinely unique in the
world of financial services andall the policy around that.
We've got Robert Troy, who'sIreland's Minister of State for
Financial Services, creditunions, and insurance.
You got all three in one.
That's quite a big job here.
What makes this story verydifferent, though, is before he
was writing the rules, he wasliving by them.
(00:48):
At 21, he was managing a bankbranch, one of the youngest in
the country.
He then returned home to ruralIreland to run his family's post
office and build his ownbusiness.
He knows what it's like to makepayroll, to navigate compliance,
to wonder if a new regulationwill help or hurt your bottom
line.
Now he's leading the developmentof Ireland's next international
financial services strategy: Ireland for finance, overseeing (01:09):
undefined
insurance reform and modernizingthe credit union sector.
He's just come from Policy 20,where regulators and industry
leaders have been deep inconversations about how we build
frameworks that enableinnovation while protecting
consumers at the same time.
Not an easy job.
(01:29):
Today we're going to be talkingabout something that doesn't get
enough airtime, the human sideof regulation.
And you all know how much timewe spend talking about
regulation.
What happens when policymakersthink like entrepreneurs?
How do we bridge the gap betweengovernment and industry?
And what would change if weapproached regulation with more
empathy, more humility, and morecollaboration?
(01:51):
So with that, Minister Troy,welcome to the Money Pot.
Thank you for joining us.
Thank you.
It's my pleasure to be here.
So let's dive into it because Iknow you've got a jam-packed
schedule.
Let's start back at thebeginning.
You know, I gave a little bit ofa background to start off.
When you were managing a bankbranch at 21, that's incredible,
by the way, being a 21-year-oldmanaging a bank.
SPEAKER_01 (02:11):
Well, let's just uh I suppose uh correct the record
somewhat.
I wasn't actually the manager ofthe branch.
What I was was a customerrelationship manager.
So I was dealing with my ownportfolio customers.
So predominantly uhprofessionals and SMEs, I was
their point of contact, who theywould reach out to to help with
their financial services, uh fixuh loans for them, uh, and offer
(02:35):
investment advice.
So um while I was part of themanagement team, I wasn't the
ultimate manager of the branch.
SPEAKER_00 (02:42):
But still, that that's that's fascinating.
Thank you for thatclarification.
But you were obviously directlyinvolved with your customers.
What did that teach you buildingabout financial services from
the ground up, talking to yourcustomers day in and day out?
SPEAKER_01 (02:56):
Well, I suppose uh I always viewed that role, and as
I do, I viewed the role that Ihave now is what does this, what
impact will this have on thecustomer?
Um so when I was in a bankbranch, uh dealing on a daily
basis with people who werecoming to me.
Perhaps it was a small businesswho look at look who was seeking
(03:16):
a new credit line to expand uhthe business growth.
Uh, perhaps they were lookingfor uh investment advice or
maybe to talk in relation toprovide uh pension supports for
their for their staff for thelong term.
Um and it was working with themto ensure that you enable them
to expand and grow.
(03:38):
And I saw that role uh in thebank as a key enabler uh for the
business growth and also interms of for the individual
enabler to help them progresswith their life, whether it's a
mortgage at a particular stageor an investment decision.
So I always took the view uh howwill this best work for the
customer?
SPEAKER_00 (03:59):
Yeah, that's a being customer-centric is definitely
an important way to think aboutit.
Let's talk a little bit furtherabout your journey when you
moved back to rural Ireland andwhen ran your family's post
office.
Talk a little bit about that.
What was that experience like?
SPEAKER_01 (04:13):
Well, look at it, I suppose um, if I'm being 100%
honest, the reason why I tookover the post office was because
I had moved away from myconstituency to work in the
financial services in Dublin.
I moved back home.
There was an opportunity tocontest um an election, and I
saw my interaction on a dailybasis in the post office as an
(04:34):
opportunity to meet uh all myprospective uh constituents.
Um, my parents wanted to retire,so it was an opportunity there.
Sadly, um, you know, when youare at an event like Money 2020
and you see such innovation andhow financial services has
evolved so rapidly over a spotsmall space of time, it just
(04:56):
reinforces that unfortunately,what is and was a great
financial institution in termsof uh on Pust, they haven't
moved with the Times.
And a lot of um On Pust'snetwork of offices are now
withering on the vine, um,they're dying off, people are no
longer utilizing them because umthey haven't moved with the
(05:19):
times.
Uh, and it's sad because thereis um a very it's on pust as a
very reputable brand in inIreland.
It has a very good, stronggeographical presence right
across uh all um small towns andvillages.
Um so there was an opportunitythere, uh maybe to partner with
(05:41):
some of the innovative financialum creators that we see
demonstrating their theirproductivity here in money 2020,
but um that that was nevercapitalized on, and I think um
that that's regrettable and amissed opportunity from an Irish
government perspective.
SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
When you were running your business, you were
on the receiving end ofregulation.
I totally get the points you'remaking about the technological
advancements and who was movingforward or wasn't, but when you
think about the role of abusiness owner dealing with your
own compliance requirements,reporting obligations, et
cetera, were there specificmoments or a specific regulation
where you thought, this doesn'tmake sense.
(06:23):
Why is this here?
Or something that you werereally excited about that said,
I'm I'm happy that this herebecause it's actually protecting
me.
Can you just kind of like talkabout now on the other end of it
your role with regulation as abusiness owner?
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
I suppose one very clear example was when I was
working in the bank, I was, as Isaid, a customer relationship
manager, I was a mortgageadvisor, I was an investment
advisor.
Um, I was working in the bank ata time when there was huge
demand for mortgages in Ireland.
Um, the rules in terms of howmuch and who could borrow were
(06:56):
relaxed in Ireland, and we sawthat actually contributed to um
part of our financial crash in2008-2009.
Um, and now the rules in termsof who can avail of a mortgage,
in terms of the lending limits,uh how much an individual can
borrow based on the strength oftheir income, how long they're
(07:18):
employed, the sense ofpermanency, um, their age, uh,
that has kind of been morestringently applied in the last
number of years.
Um, and I can really see therationale why, because um, back
in 2008-2009, uh, we had afinancial crash.
There was a global financialcrash.
(07:40):
Um, a lot of people suffered inIreland.
Um, some people wereoverborrowed.
Um, and I suppose there was anappetite and a lack of
regulation that facilitatedthat.
So looking back now, I can seethat perhaps if we hadn't
relaxed some of the lendingrules uh earlier in the early
(08:02):
2000s, maybe some of the peoplewho got into financial
difficulty as a result of theinternational financial crash uh
may have been better protected.
So I think going back to what Isaid at the at the outset, you
know, when you are implementingrules and regulations, you have
to think of how this is going toprotect uh the consumer uh in
(08:24):
the long run.
Um later this year, one of thebig ticket items we'll be
developing in uh in the Irishgovernment and the Department of
Finance is a new savings andinvestment account.
We currently have 180 billionsitting on low-yielding deposit
accounts.
So that's money that's notworking to as as as
(08:46):
advantageously as it could.
Um, and we are a nation ofsavers rather than a nation of
investors.
So my line minister and I,working with the officials in
the department, are currentlyworking on new proposals in
terms of how we can design anaccount that will incentivize um
the Irish citizen to startinvesting, to look into shares
(09:09):
and equities rather than justputting their money on deposit
account.
And I think critical to that isgoing to be financial literacy,
is going to be ensuring that theconsumer is advised of the
benefits, but also some of thedraw drawbacks.
Um, and that's where I thinkthere is more work to be done
(09:33):
from an Irish governmentperspective, uh, our regulator,
the central bank, uh, to CCPC,that's the consumer protection
commission in Ireland, to ensurethat our citizens are adequately
informed and educated on how totake better uh financial
decisions for themselves.
SPEAKER_00 (09:54):
That is such a, I love the the way that you phrase
that, a nation of savers versusinvestors and the role of
financial literacy in education.
That really hits home for me.
Um, I grew up, you know,financially unstable in a
financially unstable home forsome time.
And I went to college and tookout loans for 13.5% interest.
And I was like, hey, I'm goingto New York, I don't care what
(10:15):
it tells me, I'm just gonna dothis.
And I didn't realize like howcrazy that was because I didn't
build up credit.
So in any case, I can certainlyempathize and relate to the idea
of the lack of financialliteracy and the impact that
that has.
And then to your point,especially when you don't have
that, your credit, like youryour desire to go and focus on
if you have a little bit ofmoney, let's save it versus
(10:36):
invest it, where that's whencompound interest comes into
play and all those other greatthings.
So let's uh fast forward totoday.
I really appreciate that thatbackground and perspective.
You're now the person helping towrite the rules.
You get to be on the other sideof the table, shape the
strategy, set the direction forIreland's financial services
sector.
When you made the transitionfrom business owner to
policymaker, what was the thingthat maybe struck you the most
(11:00):
that, you know, how the otherside thinks?
What was most surprising to you?
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
But I think first and foremost, and I I I always I
live by the belief that um aspolicymakers, as legislators,
uh, we don't create any jobs.
Um, but we have theresponsibility to create an
environment that will create jobcreation, will support uh
businesses develop and grow.
And one of the frustrations Ihad on the first day entering
(11:26):
government, and I still have ittoday, is maybe some of the
speeds of decisions uh by thepublic service.
And I accept that government andin particular permanent
government uh have a duty toprotect the consumer and ensure
that we have trust in the marketwhile at the same time uh
supporting innovation andgrowth.
(11:49):
From an Irish governmentperspective, obviously we're a
member of the EU, and as aconsequence of that, some of our
rules are emanate uh within theEU.
We've to align rules with theEU, and there's benefits of
that, you know, in terms of evenuh the recent uh harmonised
(12:09):
regulations for cross-borderpayments, uh sees it's much more
easier for companies to transfermoney within the EU than maybe
when you look at the Asianmarket, which is a lot more
fragmented because uh the rulesare geographically uh located.
Um at the moment, the EU is verystrong now on the whole
(12:31):
competitiveness andsimplification agenda,
acknowledged that maybe um somerules went too far, some rules
were overcomplicated, and weneed to simplify those rules uh
to support uh businesses andsupport our own economies.
From an Irish governmentperspective, um the Central Bank
(12:51):
of Ireland, which is our ownregulator, has recently
published um their own roadmapon further simplification, and
that's where they're reallylooking at proportionality uh
being central uh to the rules uhthat we um implement in in back
home in Ireland.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
I love that concept of you know, it's actually
extremely hard to do thingssimply, but by doing things
simply, you have the ability tomove more quickly and you know
and impact people in a way thatmakes it easier for them to
understand.
Because the way that you, toyour point, kind of foster an
environment of collaboration andinnovation is by making the
rules simple to follow so peopleknow what they're doing and they
(13:32):
can, you know, build, we canhave a lot more entrepreneurs in
the future.
Here, sitting at Money2020 Asia,we're surrounded by innovators
who want to move fast and breakthings.
Um, and at Policy 20, which iswhere you were at a few minutes
ago, the regulators, we haveregulators from all over the
world there, and they're tryingto figure out how to respond to
this concept of moving fast andbreaking things, which is the
(13:53):
fintech entrepreneurs and whatthey like to do.
How do you personally thinkabout that balance?
It's it's quite hard.
Uh, the balance of fosteringinnovation while protecting
consumers.
How do you balance those twothings in your mind?
SPEAKER_01 (14:07):
I think regulation has to be a key part of safe
innovation.
Um, at the end of the day,particularly when you're dealing
with financial services, you'reyou're dealing with people's
money.
Uh, people want to be able totrust whatever new innovation uh
is coming forward.
And from an Irish governmentperspective, the central bank,
which is our independentregulator, established an
(14:29):
innovation hub back in 2018.
And since its establishment todate, over it has had engagement
with over 600 uh innovativecompanies who can go in there,
can uh raise questions, can umdiscuss new technology, uh, get
clarity on what type ofregulation is required for
(14:53):
whatever license they areseeking before they actually put
in a formal application.
So there's a lot of a scopingout exercise, and they can get a
lot of information from that.
Building on that, um last yearthe central bank established an
innovation sandbox.
Um, and again, um the initial uhteam was combating financial
(15:17):
crime, and this year it's uhdealing with innovation and
payments.
So it's it's the central bank,it's the regulator working in
collaboration uh with innovativefirms, guiding them through the
process, and equally from themlearning from the innovators in
terms of what can be done, whatcan be done in a safe way, in a
(15:40):
transparent way, in a way thatuh can build trust by uh the
what the wider population?
SPEAKER_00 (15:48):
Yeah, and 600 companies from you know less
than a decade of the innovationhub existing is quite a
significant milestone.
Do you think that when you whenyou think about the 600
companies, were there any, Iknow this is the central bank,
but were there specific types ofcompanies?
Was it more lending, payments,because we've been talking a bit
(16:08):
about cross-border.
What was the mix of thosecompanies?
SPEAKER_01 (16:12):
Well, I think from from the innovation hub, it was
a broad variety, it was quitediversified mix of companies.
Uh in Ireland, we're a you know,we're a global hub for financial
services.
Uh, we have a very uh strongfunds industry, we have a very
strong aircraft leasingindustry, the Irish home of a
lot of global tech companies.
(16:33):
Um we with a strong financialservice or a strong fintech um
presence also.
So we've we've quite an array ofdiversified uh subsections of
the financial services operatingin Ireland.
And as a consequence of that, uhthe 600 companies that were
participating and dealing andengaging with the central bank
(16:53):
was quite uh diversified.
Um, but I think what it shows isthe importance of engagement
between uh public and private,the importance of engagement uh
with the regulator.
And that's not asking theregulator to compromise uh
regulations, but it's to give asense of clarity uh to the
(17:17):
innovators.
So the innovators will knowwhat's required of them and the
line of direction uh they needto go.
And one of the earlier um when Iwas appointed to this role back
in in January of last year, andengaging with the various
sectors of the financialservices, one of the things they
would always uh say to me isjust we just need greater
(17:41):
clarity, um, we need greaterspeed of decision making.
Uh let the central bank tell usexactly what they want so that
we can get on and do with it.
And I have to say, um thecentral bank has taken on some
of the feedback that we've beenable to give them uh uh on foot
of our engagement.
And as I said, back in 2016 youhad the innovation hub, we now
(18:05):
have the innovation sandbox, uh,and there is um there is uh
regular engagement there uhbetween the department uh and
the central bank also givenfeedback.
SPEAKER_00 (18:17):
Yeah, I think clarity is one of the key pieces
that you were referencing there,and of course you're you'd be
very well familiar with what'shappening where in my neck of
the woods and you know the thelong-anticipated passing or not
passing of Clarity Act in the USas well, because to your point,
regardless of what thelegislation is, it is about
making it simple and clear forpeople to understand where they
(18:38):
kind of sit within theecosystem.
SPEAKER_01 (18:40):
And proportionate too, because like I mean, you
have um firms at differentstages in their in their growth
phase.
Um, you know, new innovativefirms uh don't have the capacity
that uh a unicorn has, they'renot, they don't have the
resources to hire in the adviceand uh and all of that.
So I think it's it's importantthat regulation is proportionate
(19:01):
uh to the size of the company,but also proportionate to the
risks involved uh with what uhtransactions are being carried
out.
SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
That makes a lot of sense.
So let's get practical for amoment.
You meet with fintech founders,insurre tech startups, credit
union leaders, people who aretrying to innovate within
financial services.
And based on those conversationsthat you're having, what's one
thing that you wish everyfounder understood about how
regulators think?
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
I think I think um innovators, founders know the
reason and the rationale forregulation.
Um, regulation is needed tobuild confidence in any market.
Um, but I think what we need isto have uh proportionate
regulation.
And I think Ireland is veryfortunate.
(19:52):
Um, our regulator would beregarded internationally as
strong, uh as firm, but as veryfair.
Um, so that's a a good sellingpoint from an Irish uh
perspective.
And I think quality regulationalso boosts confidence and it
boosts trust uh in a product, uhin a service, which is in the
(20:13):
long-term interest of thatcompany.
But I think key maybe from thecompany's perspective is early
engagement, is to to engage withthe regulator at a very early
stage of your productdevelopment, of your innovation,
so that you can get guidance interms of exactly what is
(20:33):
required.
And and that goes back to thepoint that I made um earlier on.
Uh when I engaged with industry,the big request of them was let
us know what is required at anearly stage.
Give us clear timelines so thatwe know when we submit the
(20:54):
information that's requested, adecision will be made in an
efficient and timely manner.
Because when you have certaintyand clarity and transparency, as
a business you can plan an awfullot better.
And I think that's where thecentral bank is is operating
currently, but we can alwaysimprove that um in greater
(21:16):
transparency, greater clarityand efficiency.
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
It's one of the things that you said which
really resonates if we thinkabout the positive uh lens from
a fintech uh perspective aswell, is the authority and
credibility that once you gothrough the innovation sandbox
or the other the innovation hubthat you mentioned, you kind of
have that stamp of validationand credibility.
And I can speak to that today.
(21:40):
We had a press uh lunch, we hada bunch of announcements from a
myriad of companies, includingMetacomp.
And one of the first things thatthe president said when she was
talking about their announcementwas around, and we're regulated
by MAS.
So there is, once you do getthat threshold and that
credibility, that it reallyhelps.
SPEAKER_01 (22:00):
It is.
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
And then it helps you accelerate to your point
around trust and everythingelse.
So I totally hear your pointabout you know, as a fintech
founder, to engage early withregulators.
If there was any other advicethat you could give to
entrepreneurs that you talk toto kind of accelerate the
process and learn from themistakes of yesteryear, what
advice would you give?
SPEAKER_01 (22:24):
As a department, we we conduct regular engagement
with key stakeholders.
So, for example, uh we havequarterly meetings with key
stakeholders for financialservices.
We have established a specialtyuh insurance form to ensure that
we engage, we listen to, welisten to industry and we
(22:45):
respond.
But I'm always very consciousthat just to establish these
forums for engagement, we haveto be conscious that they are
results driven and that if theyare to be meaningful when people
give suggestions, we have towork through those suggestions
so we can bring about uh uh uhsolutions to some of the issues
(23:07):
that they face.
Our regulator, the Central Bankof Ireland, uh, they too operate
a financial industry forum, andthat again is senior industry
leaders working with the centralbank and addressing the
challenges that face industry,um, improving uh the
(23:28):
authorization process.
And even central bank has nowestablished uh a gateway keeping
division, which is aboutensuring greater transparency,
greater consistency, and greaterefficiency.
So the innovators, the newcompanies coming in can have
confidence that their engagementwill be dealt with, as I said,
(23:50):
consistently, transparently, uh,and in a timely fashion.
SPEAKER_00 (23:55):
Those are all very important points when you think
about how to do business moreeffectively across lines.
Like, so when we think aboutpolicy 20, one of the things
that was very important for theteam was about bringing the
public and private sectortogether.
And we talked a little bit abouttrust, but if we're being
honest, oftentimes between thosetwo sides, there's a bit of a
(24:17):
trust deficit.
I've spent plenty of time withthe industry, and they think
that the regulators don'tunderstand innovation and
they're moving too slowly, andthe regulators think that
they're not taking this riskseriously enough because, as you
said, we're talking aboutpeople's financial lives here.
There's not much more importantthan that when you think about
people's, you know, credibility.
So you've seen both sides.
(24:38):
How do we, if we could, youknow, go into your brain or you
had your ideal world, MinisterTroy, how do we create trust
better between the public andprivate sector?
SPEAKER_01 (24:49):
I think I think there's a it's a healthy dynamic
that there is an element ofmistrust.
Um, because if industry was veryum favorably disposed to
regulation, you would ask thequestion, are we are we too
light on regulation?
Uh and as somebody who workedthrough the financial crash of
(25:13):
the early 2008 to 2011 and umwas elected to our national par
parliament in 2011, uh and partof the party that had to take
some very difficult decisions inensuring that um we you know we
put the country back on a strongeconomic basis, and we did, and
(25:36):
now we have a very strongeconomy, full employment, uh,
running budget surpluses, andable to make the necessary
investments uh to the challengeswe face today.
But some of the financial crashwas as a result of maybe two
lacks of regulation.
So it goes back to what I saidat the outset.
(25:57):
How do we ensure that ourregulation is fit for purpose?
Um, that the protection of theconsumer is central, that the
consumer has trust, um, but thatit's also proportionate.
And I think that happens throughengagement.
And I've given you a number ofexamples there from an Irish
government perspective throughthe central bank of how we have
(26:20):
specific forums established forthat engagement with industry
and the Department of Finance,uh, establishment of forum with
the central bank and uh and umindustry as well to receive the
feedback.
But I think it's healthy uh thatthere is some element of
friction.
Friction can be healthy too.
(26:41):
Um that you know industryrespects the regulator, respects
the independence of theregulator, and it can benefit
industry in the long run.
As I said, uh Ireland's centralbank would be regarded as firm
but fair.
And so when a company hasauthorization from the central
(27:01):
bank and goes to do business ina new market, it is coming with
a very strong endorsement thatcan be to the benefit of the
company in the long run, also.
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
Yeah, that makes that makes a lot of sense.
You get to see hundreds of ofyou know innovators across
across obviously Ireland andbeyond.
If you were to take a step backand think on a scale of one to
ten about where we're at on theinnovation lifecycle within
financial services, one beingwe're just getting started, ten
(27:31):
being we're done.
We're as innovative as youpossibly could be, where would
you put us right now and likeglobally?
SPEAKER_01 (27:38):
I I honestly couldn't answer that question.
I'm just always amazed at thenew companies that come in with
their ideas and how to get theirheads around that.
Um, as a society, as technologyis continuously evolving, um, we
have to be able to respond tothat.
(27:59):
And one of the challenges uhfrom a government perspective is
to ensure that we have um theright supports in place, uh, but
also to ensure that we have uhthe availability of the right
talent.
And that's why from an Irishgovernment perspective, we are
continuously investing inresearch and development.
(28:19):
We introduced uh new RD orenhanced RD tax credits to
support businesses who want toinvest in research and
development.
We established a new specificdepartment for higher education
and skills.
Uh so we can we have that verymuch as to the forefront of our
(28:40):
policy in terms of ensuring thatwe are making the right
investment in our uh third leveleducation to ensure that we're
producing the talent for thejobs of today and the future.
And the only way that that wecan know that we're doing that
correctly is throughcollaboration between uh the
private and the public.
(29:01):
It's good to have the frictionthere, but it's also good to be
able to work in a collaborativesense as well.
SPEAKER_00 (29:07):
And I think that is the perfect ending because
collaboration is really at theepicenter of what we do at
Money2020.
It's around partnerships andbringing different sides,
different geos, different, youknow, industries together here,
really about the future offinance.
So, with that, Minister Troy,this has been such a valuable
conversation.
What strikes me most is in yourjourney from managing your
(29:29):
customer uh branch manager roleat 21 to running a family
business in rural Ireland toshaping the national financial
services strategy of Ireland.
This gives you perspective thatgenuinely is rare in government.
And we're, I think that Irelandis lucky to have you.
You understand both the promiseand the pain of innovation.
You know what it's like to be onthe receiving side of
(29:49):
regulation, and you know theresponsibility that comes with
actually owning it.
One of the biggest takeawaysfrom this is that regulation
doesn't have to be adversarial.
To your point, it comes all backto collaboration.
For everyone listening, whetheryou're a founder navigating
regulatory uncertainty, afinancial services executive
trying to innovate withinconstraints, or a policymaker
trying to get it right.
(30:10):
I hope this conversation remindsyou that there are humans on
both sides of the table tryingto solve genuinely hard
problems.
And that collaboration, trust,which we talked a lot about, and
mutual understanding aren't justnice to have.
They are absolutely essential ifwe're going to build a financial
system that serves everyone.
Minister Troy, thank you so muchfor joining us on the Money Pot.
(30:32):
And thank you for making yourjourney to Money2020 Asia.
Thank you.
For the rest of you, to ourlisteners, thanks for tuning in
again.
If you enjoyed the episode,subscribe to Money Pot wherever
you get your podcast.
Join the conversation on socialmedia using hashtag moneypot or
hashtag money2020Asia.
If you're building the future offinance, we'd love to see you at
(30:52):
Money2020 events around theworld.
The next one is in Amsterdam inJune, to the second to the
fourth, where technology meetshumanity and where the
conversations that matter arehappening.
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