November 7, 2024 • 40 mins
Join us for an inspiring conversation with Ken Kunken, whose journey from overcoming a life-altering injury to thriving as a district attorney is nothing short of remarkable. At 20, Ken faced an immense challenge when he became a quadriplegic, yet he didn't let this deter him from pursuing his dreams. Through sheer resilience and a refusal to accept societal limitations, Ken returned to college in the 1970s, navigated an inaccessible campus, and eventually earned a law degree, proving skeptics wrong. His story is a testament to determination and an inspiring example for anyone facing their own obstacles.
Ken's professional achievements are equally impressive, having been inducted into a mentoring Hall of Fame and leaving a lasting impact on the education system for individuals with disabilities. Listen as Ken shares his most challenging experiences following his injury and emphasizes the importance of maintaining high expectations for oneself and others. He also opens up about his unique love story with Anna, highlighting how personal connections and mentorship have played a vital role in his journey. Ken's narrative serves as a powerful reminder of the potential within everyone, regardless of their circumstances.
In addition to his professional successes, Ken's personal life is filled with passion and dedication. He speaks about his role as a husband and father and finds joy in nature and spending time with his children. With a penchant for football, particularly as a New York Jets fan, Ken shares his excitement for the sport and the lessons it has taught him. His work with the Viscardi Center further exemplifies his commitment to empowering individuals with disabilities. As we wrap up, Ken leaves us with a message of empowerment and advocacy, encouraging listeners to connect with him through the links provided in the show notes:
Main Website: https://kenkunken.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/Ken-Kunken/61566473121422/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdUUa2hyQF8ubUmEARY9WKA
IG: https://www.instagram.com/ken.kunken/
LInkdIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kenneth-j-kunken-b4b0a9a8/
Link for listeners: https://kenkunken.com/
“I Dream of Things That Never Were: The Ken Kunken Story,” published in 2023.
If anyone is interested in purchasing the book from outside the US or Canada, the Kindle version is available through Amazon.com (the US version, not the regional like Amazon.eu or .pl). Here is the link:
https://a.co/d/1t1UWIN
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey folks, today I have my first civilian guest for
the Morning Formation podcast.
His name is Ken Kunkin.
He is a retired districtattorney.
The most amazing part about Kenis the fact that at 20 years
old he became a quadriplegic.
Now I know that many of us havesetbacks in our lives, whether
they're already there when we'reborn or perhaps something
(00:21):
happens to us.
It's important for you tounderstand that things can
change in the blink of an eye,and for many of you out there
that are listening to thispodcast or watching this podcast
, I think that you'll beinspired with Mr Kunkin's story,
because at 20 years old hecould have just quit and called
it a day and sat down in thechair for the rest of his life
and watched TV.
(00:42):
But instead he went back tocollege, got his law degree,
became a practicing attorney inthe state of New York,
eventually got married and hadtriplet sons.
So I hope that you're inspiredtoday by this podcast.
I hope you enjoy it.
I plan on still interviewingour military community, but I
think there's so many civiliansout there that have such great
(01:03):
stories of resiliency and Ireally enjoyed talking to Mr
Kunkin today and I'm lookingforward to many more shows and
podcasts for TMF podcast TMF forshort.
I do have plans on sellingthese shirts soon, so please
stay tuned and thank you foryour continued support.
I really appreciate it.
Hope you guys are having agreat 2024 so far.
(01:26):
Let's get to the show.
Warriors fall in.
It's time for formation.
You know, I've really focusedin the last two years on
interviewing folks that wererelated somehow in some way to
the military community, and overthe last couple of years I've
realized that there's a lot offolks out there that have very
inspiring, tremendous stories ofovercoming and achieving, and
(01:50):
I'd really like to expand mynetwork out as far as my guests,
to civilians and just folks outthere that have that no-quit
attitude, the grit, theresiliency, because I think
that's one thing that we'remissing in today's environment,
especially in our society.
Today, a lot of people justsimply give up and they're not
willing to fight.
And today I'm very, veryfortunate to be joined by Ken
(02:14):
Kunkin, who is a quadriplegic,an attorney and, probably most
proudest of all, the father oftriplets, which can be quite a
handful.
And so, ken, I just want tothank you today for being on the
Morning.
Formation podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, thank you for having me and giving me the
opportunity to tell my story.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
The honor is all in this end of the microphone.
Honestly, and you know, youovercame a lot at a very young
age, at a formidable age at that.
At 20 years old, you became aquadriplegic and I just want to
give you an opportunity to tellour audience how that came about
and what was that like tryingto pick yourself back up.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Well, it happened soon after I turned 20 years old
.
I had just begun my junior yearat Cornell University, where I
was studying industrialengineering, and I was playing
on their lightweight footballteam, which was a league for
people who were smaller usuallythan the typical heavyweight
varsity football team, but it'sstill a varsity sport.
(03:17):
In fact, two of our games wereagainst the military academies,
Army and Navy.
But I got hurt in a gameagainst Columbia University.
It happened to be on Halloweenday in 1970.
And I made a tackle of the ballcarrier on a kickoff and I
broke my neck and severelydamaged my spinal cord and as a
(03:42):
result, I'm a quadriplegicspinal cord and as a result, I'm
a quadriplegic.
I'm almost totally paralyzedfrom the shoulders down.
I have just a little bit ofmovement in my left arm, but
nothing in my fingers or mywrist, and on the right side of
my body I can just sort of shrugmy shoulder a bit.
So for the last 54 years I'vebeen almost totally paralyzed
(04:08):
years I've been almost totallyparalyzed.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
That's insane In 1970 , let's talk about the
accommodations for folks thatwere in your situation back then
.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Well, that was about 20 years before the Americans
with Disabilities Act, so veryfew facilities were actually
wheelchair accessible.
And when I got out of thehospital, I returned to Cornell
University where I'd beenstudying, and there was not one
ramp or curb cut on the entirecampus.
(04:34):
So every one of the buildingsthat I went to had steps in
front of them, and one of theclasses that I took three times
a week had 16 steps in front ofit, and my dorm room was in a
building that had 10 steps justto get in.
So on my first day of classes Ihad to be either pulled up or
(04:56):
bounce down close to 100 stepsjust to attend my first day.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
That's insane.
And during that time, how manytimes did you hear folks tell
you that you can't?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
All the time.
I mean, I think everybodythought I was probably crazy to
be going back to Cornell, suchan inaccessible campus,
especially so soon after myinjury.
I had only been out of thehospital nine days when I
returned to Cornell and I thinka lot of people thought that
(05:30):
there was not a very good chancefor me to succeed.
I think most people, if theywere going to bet on it,
probably would have betted thatI would not have been able to
even finish the semester.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
At any point in time were you ever like really
embarrassed or felt like youwere just part of a nuisance and
you were like you know, I couldjust quit and go home and
everything would you know.
I could just sit and watch a TVand just kind of you know
weather away.
I mean, was there any pointwhere you've kind of felt like
you know it'd be easier if Iwent the other route?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Many times, many times In fact.
Soon after I returned to school, I was approached by a student
on campus who asked me if I wasKen Kunkin, and when I responded
that I was, he responded aren'tyou supposed to be in the
hospital?
And I have to tell you therewere times when I seriously
thought maybe I should be backin the hospital or rehab center
(06:29):
or back at home with my family,because every day posed new
challenges for me back at schooland, as I say, just dealing
with the enormous number ofsteps was a challenge.
But, in addition, everywhere Iwent I was being stared at,
because it was so unusual to seesomebody in my condition on
(06:52):
this campus and that was veryuncomfortable for me as well.
I never liked drawing specialattention to myself, and
everywhere I went I was beingstared at.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, I can't imagine how awkward that was for you,
even on a daily basis.
So I'm sure that you had folksout there that were the
naysayers.
But who was your support backthen?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Oh, it was definitely my family.
My family's been so supportiveevery step of the way, and by
family I'm not just talkingabout parents, brother and
sister, step of the way.
And by family I'm not justtalking about parents, brother
and sister, I'm talking aboutaunts, uncles, cousins,
everybody that was in any wayboth involved as a relative, but
(07:41):
also a lot of friends, which isso supportive, and they
basically assured me that theywould act as my arms and legs to
make sure I could do everythingI wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, that's huge.
I don't know how anyoneespecially back in 1970, could
have gotten through finishingyou know, any type of
accomplishment like that,especially with the
accessibility that wasn't thereback then.
People probably can't evenimagine like kids today can't
imagine what it's like not tohave a cell phone right.
I can't imagine you being aquadriplegic, in a wheelchair,
(08:12):
needing all the assistance thatyou needed to finish up.
So what was it like finishingup at Cornell, and how did you
decide to become a lawyer?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Okay, first let me just comment one thing.
When you said about kids todaycannot imagine being without a
cell phone.
When I was injured it seemedlike the medical professionals
thought the best I would ever beable to do would be to someday
sell magazine subscriptions overthe telephone.
Now, at that time thetelephones were rotary
(08:41):
telephones.
They weren't even push buttonphones.
The telephones were rotarytelephones, they weren't even
push-button phones.
So I couldn't even dial atelephone back then, let alone
take notes or write anything.
So everything back then posedchallenges.
They certainly didn't havelaptop computers back then.
So everything that I was doingseemed to pose challenges, since
(09:04):
I needed help with virtuallyeverything.
But through a lot of help frommy fellow classmates I was able
to complete the final two yearsof my undergraduate degree in
engineering and I graduated asthe first quadriplegic ever to
graduate from Cornell University.
But after my graduation Istarted to think you know,
(09:27):
engineering just didn't reallyseem like a viable field for me.
I knew that what I reallywanted to do was to help others,
in particular people who weredealing with disabilities or
life-altering diseases or justpeople who were dealing with
significant challenges in theirlife.
So I decided to pursue a careerin counseling and I stayed at
(09:49):
Cornell and I earned a Master ofArts degree in counseling and
student personnel administrationand then to increase oh and by
the way, I became the firstquadriplegic to earn a graduate
degree from Cornell as well.
But to increase my counselingcredentials I then went to
Columbia University where Iearned my second master's degree
(10:12):
.
This was a master of educationdegree in psychological
counseling and rehabilitation,and I decided to look for a job
in the rehabilitation counselingfield.
To my dismay, no one would hireme.
I sent out more than 200resumes and looked for a job for
a year.
(10:32):
I was even turned down when Iwent off to volunteer my
services.
Everyone felt I was just toodisabled to work back then and I
was just really fortunate to behired by a facility called
Abilities Incorporated, whichwas part of what was then called
the Human Resources Center, isnow called the Viscardi Center.
(10:53):
They're located here on LongIsland and they hired me to work
as a vocational rehabilitationcounselor for other individuals
who had severe disabilities.
Now you asked about law school.
I loved the job as arehabilitation counselor and I
worked for more than two yearsat that facility.
(11:13):
But part of my job was to speakat conferences and
organizations to differentgroups about non-discrimination
and affirmative actionconcerning people with
disabilities, and often after mytalks I would be asked
questions and while I would domy best to answer them, I was
(11:35):
always careful to tell thequestions they should really
consult with a lawyer abouttheir concerns.
And I guess it didn't take longbefore I started to think you
know, there's no reason why Icouldn't become that lawyer.
So I left my job and went toHofstra University School of Law
.
While I was in law school Ifound a new way that I could
(11:59):
help people and serve thecommunity.
But one of the things that Ialso did I have an older brother
named Steven who was working asa trial lawyer at the time for
the public defender's office,and I used to watch my brother
in court and I found that was areally exciting type of law that
I thought I could do as well,since it involved mostly
(12:20):
speaking.
So I did an internship at theNassau County District
Attorney's Office, loved theinternship, loved the idea of
working, doing public servicefrom a different perspective,
working as a trial attorney, asa prosecutor.
So I applied for a full-timejob at the office and I was very
(12:42):
fortunate that they hired me afull-time job at the office and
I was very fortunate that theyhired me.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Ken, you're such a huge influencer and such an
inspiration Over the years youknow, with, especially, children
that are disabled, handicapped,how have you tried to reach out
(13:07):
to be sort of an inspiration ora beacon of hope for their
future and and and success?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Well a number of ways .
When I was working at theViscardi Center, they also had a
school there for handicappedchildren and a couple of times I
was a guest speaker there.
And one of the people that Imet there was a person by the
name of Robert Papier who alsoused an electric wheelchair.
He has muscular dystrophy andRob has credited me because
(13:36):
we've interacted on manyoccasions with influencing him,
so much so that he then went tolaw school and is currently a
Nassau County District Courtjudge, and I've been so pleased
to remain good friends withJudge Robert Papir and I know he
(13:57):
has credited me with being hissource of inspiration to go on
and become a lawyer and now ajudge.
So I've tried to interact withchildren whenever I can.
In fact, I was recentlyinducted into a mentoring Hall
of Fame for work I've done intaking student interns or
(14:21):
helping others with their,whether it be their educational
goals or dealing with theirdisabilities.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
It's absolutely amazing, you know.
It's amazing to find folks likeyou out there that haven't had
their stories quite reach alarger audience, and that's why
I'm so honored to talk to youtoday, and you recently had the
award that was named after youas well.
(14:50):
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Oh, as I surprised when the Nassau County District
Attorney's Office, where Iworked for a total of 40 plus
years, decided to present anaward annually, the first time
they've ever done this.
They're presenting an awardannually to an outstanding
assistant district attorney eachyear and they named the award
(15:13):
for me, the Kenneth J KumpkinAward, and I am just so honored
and thrilled that I've beenhonored that way.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah, and so that was started in just 2023, right,
yeah, just this past December.
Amazing, ken, over the years.
Aside from your family and yourtriplets, what would you say,
professionally and career-wise,was your biggest win out of
(15:44):
everything that you'veaccomplished?
Speaker 2 (15:47):
was your biggest win out of everything that you've
accomplished?
Well, the biggest win happenedto be not only just going back
to school and completing myeducation, but seeing now that
so many others are doing thesame thing.
You know, now that colleges anduniversities are being made
more wheelchair accessible, Isee more and more people going
(16:08):
to school, going for highereducation and becoming
professionals in different areas.
Now, when I was first hurt, Ididn't know of any other role
models that I could look to forinspiration and guidance or
support to know that could bedone.
I mean there may have beenpeople out there, but I did not
(16:28):
know about them.
I mean I got hurt well beforeChristopher Reeve was hurt.
Christopher Reeve was such atremendous role model for so
many people and it was such aterrible loss for us all when he
passed away way too early.
But at the time of my injury Ididn't have those role models to
look at.
(16:48):
So I've been just honored thata number of people have said I'm
a role model for them and thatmakes me feel absolutely
terrific that I can help andinspire and motivate people to
do more with their lives.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Absolutely amazing.
I mean, back then.
People can't fathom 1970.
No, that was before I was born.
I was born in 1980.
But even in 1970, there was noway to really connect with folks
unless you met them in person.
There was no Instagram, therewas no Facebook, there was no
TikTok.
There was no way for you tojust go online and type
(17:27):
something in.
You had to know them in person.
They had to be in your radiusof residence in order for you to
really know them, or just bumpinto them while you're traveling
or on vacation or something,and so finding that inspiration
outside of your own circle canbe quite a challenge.
Ken, what would you say overallis your worst day quite a
(17:50):
challenge, ken.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
What would you say overall, is your worst day my
worst day?
Well, that's difficult to saybecause you know there were
quite a number of them, but itwould certainly be soon after my
injury.
While I was a patient in thehospital, the doctors were
telling me very little about thecondition I was in.
I was pretty much kept in thedark about everything and it was
frightening to see that I couldnot move.
(18:12):
I had no sensation through mostof my body and I was constantly
passing out due to problemswith blood pressure.
And you know the what I couldsee in the doctor's eyes and in
the way everybody was treatingme was they were giving me very
(18:34):
little hope that I'd ever beable to leave a useful or
productive or a happy life.
So I would say it was prettymuch the entire time I was in
the hospital was very difficultto deal with on a day-to-day
basis because I felt there justwasn't much hope out there from
(18:55):
the people that I was dealingwith.
And, if I might add one morething, it just seemed to be such
limited expectations forsomeone in my condition.
That's why I mentioned thatthey thought the best I'd ever
be able to do would be to sellmagazine subscriptions over the
telephone.
I'd like people to know thatit's so important to keep your
(19:17):
expectations high for people,because a person's performance
often rises or falls based uponwhat others expect of them.
So it's so important to keepyour expectations high, and I
think that would help so manypeople do more with their lives.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Right.
Just believing in others andmentoring others and having
conversations with folks canmake a world of difference,
because some people are limitedto the end of their street and
that's it.
They think that's where theedge of the earth rounds, and
then they cannot see beyond that.
So definitely someone likeyourself understands that
there's way more beyond thehorizon that you can accomplish.
(19:57):
And I see here, ken, that youfound love late in life.
Talk about that.
That's difficult, I would sayright.
I mean, can you talk a littlebit about how that happened?
You difficult, I would sayRight, I mean, can you talk a
little bit about how thathappened?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
You know it sure is.
You know, like many young men,I dreamed of someday meeting and
having a satisfyingrelationship with the perfect
woman.
And, as you might imagine,dating when you're a
quadriplegic and trying toimpress a woman when you're
almost totally paralyzed posescertainly its own unique set of
(20:29):
challenges.
But I was very fortunate that Imet the woman of my dreams.
My name is anna.
She's actually just sitting tomy right right now, just off
camera, and anna is the mostincredible woman I ever met.
And I met an Anna.
Initially because I was lookingfor an individual to help me on
(20:50):
weekends take care of me withmy physical needs, and I put an
ad in the newspaper that Annaresponded to and I initially
hired Anna as my weekendpersonal care attendant.
And the more Anna and I talkedand got to know each other, our
relationship progressed andclearly we knew there was
(21:12):
something between the two of usthat you just could not put into
words.
It was some real chemistry thatdeveloped and in 2003, anna and
I were married and that was oneof the best times of my life,
and I say one of the bestbecause my story got better.
As you indicated before, I'mnow the father of triplet boys
(21:37):
and through in vitrofertilization, ana became
pregnant and on January 24, 2005, I was present in the delivery
room when my wife, ana, gavebirth to my triplet sons.
So if you're going to talkabout the best day of my life,
that would be it Becoming thefather of triplet boys.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Absolutely.
Absolutely, I mean somethingthat seems out of out of reach.
Absolutely, I mean somethingthat seems out of reach, right?
Because I can't imagine howdifficult it would be for
someone in your situation to goout and date, and even people
that are able to have thefreedom physically to have
difficulties.
(22:21):
I live in LA, so I'm constantlyasking bachelors and
bachelorettes in this crazysociety that we have today,
what's it like out there?
And it's a complete zoo withwith folks and different ideas
and different ideologies.
But so your three boys arethere in college now, right?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
They're all sophomores in college.
They go into three differentschools in upstate New York, all
studying three different majors, and they're doing absolutely
great in each of theirschoolings and they're staying
very close to it, which I'm veryproud of.
They text, they FaceTime witheach other pretty much on a
(23:00):
daily basis.
They've visited each other,they've gone to classes with
each other.
It's just great to see the waythey've developed and progressed
.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Absolutely amazing, and I didn't mean to skip over
this earlier but you went to notjust some midline universities,
you went to the top, basically.
I mean, I went to college too,but I would never imagine myself
having gone to Cornell orHofstra.
Why?
Why was that?
Was it just because of thequality of education?
(23:30):
Did you ever think that I needto go to a lesser type of school
that may have more?
Well, I guess back then therewas probably no universities
that had any more accessibility.
Right, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I mean, actually Hofstra, which was right near my
home, was actually one of thefirst schools to become
wheelchair accessible.
But I was a junior at Cornellat the time of my injury and I
enjoyed it there so much and Iknew I had friends in my
fraternity I was in the Sigma Nufraternity and friends on the
(24:01):
football team and I just thought, if I'm going to go back to
school, that's where I wanted togo because I enjoyed it there
so much and I am so proud of allthree of my boys.
But I have to tell you that 50years after I graduated from
Cornell, my son, joseph, becamea freshman there.
(24:21):
So one of my boys is actuallygoing to my alma mater, the
other two are going to schoolsnearby and I couldn't be more
proud of all three of them.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Nice, yes, well, sounds like they have
foundationally great parents outthere, especially, you know, a
mother that you know found love,I think, right in the heart and
the soul of someone.
Versus, you know, at the end ofthe day, everyone out there is
all about just the surface stuff, right, but it sounds like you
(24:54):
and Anna really developed somedeep, deep emotional feelings
for each other, and you've beenyou're a highly intelligent man
with a lot of resiliency behindyou as well.
Just want to ask you, you knowbehind you as well, just want to
ask you, you know, for folksout there that are listening,
(25:18):
can you talk about anything thathas to do with inspiring
someone to help motivate them tomake the most of a bad
situation?
We're all dealt a differenthand of cards.
What message do you have forthose folks out there?
You?
Speaker 2 (25:26):
know it's so important to believe in yourself
.
You need to believe that youcan accomplish anything you set
your mind to.
You know I love my secretaryonce showed me a clipping in the
mail and it showed of apussycat looking in the mirror
(25:46):
and seeing himself as a lion.
And that's how you need to feelabout yourself.
You need to look in that mirrorand feel like you are the king
of the jungle, that you canaccomplish anything that you set
your mind to.
And no, don't listen to thenaysayers, don't listen to the
people who tell you you can't dosomething or that it's just too
(26:07):
difficult.
You need to believe that youcan accomplish anything you set
your mind to it and then make upyour mind to work hard to do
that.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yes, and you know, just sitting here thinking about
it, I went to Wright StateUniversity for my undergraduate
degree, which is a very muchaccessible university, and there
was quite a few folks that weredisabled, handicapped, and I
had a really good friend of minenamed Kara, who was in a
wheelchair, who was in awheelchair, and her now husband,
(26:40):
adam, was as well, and so Ijust want to give a quick shout
out to them, just thinking aboutthem right now and and
listening to your stories andall the things that they
overcame.
She's, she was always kind ofan inspiration for me in that
aspect.
And, ken, what would you sayoverall?
What would you say overall,motivates you or has motivated
you to be the best that youcould be?
(27:01):
Where does all this come from?
Where does that fire come from?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Well, it certainly starts with my family.
I mean my family is bondedtogether.
My family has been overcomingobstacles every step of the way.
I mean one thing I don'tbelieve you know or the
listeners know shortly after Iwas born, my mother died.
My mother died from polioduring the polio epidemic in
(27:25):
1950.
So I was less than a month oldwhen my mother died and at the
time my brother had polio aswell, but fortunately his was a
mild case and he totallyrecovered.
In fact he later became aterrific athlete.
But my family, my extendedfamily, everyone grandparents,
(27:45):
aunts, uncles, cousins havealways bonded together to help
each other, and it was throughtheir help and support that I
was able to do the things that Idid.
That nobody thought would bepossible, but everybody helped
me do it.
And one of the things that Iwould encourage your listeners
to is it's so important toparticipate.
(28:06):
Don't just sit back at homewaiting for something to happen.
Good things come to you whenyou work for them, and it's only
when you're actively involvedthat you have control over the
outcome.
So my message would be get outthere, participate and do as
much with your life as you can.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Life goes by so fast.
I feel like after I turned 21,I blinked and I was like 30 and
I blinked again and I became 40.
So get out there and get outthere and do as much as you can
every day.
And, ken, I want to make surethat I mention this as well.
I understand that you recentlywrote a book about your life.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat as well?
Sure.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I wrote a book called I Dream of Things that Never
Were the Ken Kumpkin Story,which is about my entire life,
but certainly mostly since myinjury, and I describe in a lot
of detail exactly what it waslike from my perspective what it
was like being a patient andgoing through what I went
(29:09):
through, and how I felt when Iwas dealing with medical
professionals, how I felt when Iwas dealing going back at
school and dealing not only withthe school administration but
professors and classmates andthe reactions that I got, and
what it was like to date again,to go out on a date, to fall in
(29:30):
love, to get married and to gothrough the in vitro
fertilization, and then whatit's like the wonderful life I
have now being the father oftriplets.
So my book is called I Dream ofThings that Never Were the Ken
Kunkin Story, and if I mightjust tell you how I came up with
that title, while I was still apatient in the rehab center, I
(29:53):
was asked to testify before aUnited States Senate Health
Subcommittee chaired by SenatorEdward Kennedy, and eight days
after my testimony, senatorKennedy sent me a glass
paperweight in the mail that hadan inscription on it that the
senator said his late brother,robert Kennedy, liked very much,
and the words on thatinscription were some men see
(30:18):
things as they are and say why.
I dream of things that neverwere and say why not?
And that's why I got the titleof my book I Dream of Things
that Never Were.
So you could look for it on mywebsite, kenkunkencom.
It'll tell you how it could bepurchased.
Obviously, it could bepurchased on Amazon, but there
(30:41):
are other ways as well.
So if everybody would like tobuy the book, they can go to
kenkunkincom and it'll tell youhow to purchase the book.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Sounds like it'd be a great Christmas gift.
The holiday is coming up soon.
Definitely something to checkout.
I know I like to download a lotof audio books.
Do you have it on there, Ken?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
You know we're actually working on an audio
book.
I've already dictated the book.
It still needs to be edited andput together, but we're working
on that.
But the book is also availableas an e-book in Kindle, so you
could buy it right now on eitherhardcover or on the Kindle, and
we're working on the audiobook.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Awesome.
Yeah, I live in a verytraffic-filled city here in Los
Angeles, so I'm constantlylistening to things on the go,
and that's what really got meinto podcasting.
Was that two to three-tier deeplevel of conversation that
we're having today as well,today's hustle and bustle.
I live in a big city myself andI can't even imagine the
frustrations that you have, justphysically and just mentally,
with everything going on.
(31:48):
What advice do you have forfolks out there when it comes to
dealing with stress overall?
I can't imagine how frustratedyou get at times about things,
but what advice do you have forfolks out there and how do you
deal with stress?
Speaker 2 (32:05):
You know that's an interesting question.
That's one of the questionsmost people never ask me or
never think about, and that'sbeen one of the difficult
adjustments I've had to make.
Before my injury, one of theways I dealt with stress was out
on the football field.
I could take out all myfrustrations, but I go out on
the football field and run intosomebody or do something
(32:28):
physically active.
Once I was injured I didn'thave that outlet for stressful
situations.
So what I found that was tohelp me was if I can get out in
nature, spend time sitting outin the garden or hopefully
sitting by the ocean or a lake,you know, or just in a in a you
(32:50):
know a grassy area and justspend some time with nature.
Now my best stress relieversare my children.
You know, whenever I'm in astressful situation, if I could
spend time with them and see howthey are handling their
day-to-day activities and seethe smiles on their faces, that
(33:12):
takes away almost all myanxieties.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yeah, I could totally see where when they were babies
they were probably stressingyou out quite a bit.
Now that they're older, theytake probably stressing you out
quite a bit.
Now that they're older, theytake care of themselves.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Right, that's right.
But you know, it is so much joyin their eyes and watching the
things they do, and they're sohelpful to me as well.
In fact, even when they werelittle, if they went out they'd
come back and say, dad, youcould go there, it's accessible,
it has a ramp.
They would notice these thingseven at an early age.
It's great to see, and they aresuch great help to me as well.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, I guess the stress question just kind of
came up in my mind where I wasjust thinking man, like we
constantly, on a day-to-daybasis, stress out about things,
but Ken, you must go through somuch more, and where do you go
from here?
I mean, you've accomplished somuch.
Do you have goals for thefuture, like things that you
want to accomplish still?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
My goal is to be the best husband and father I could
possibly be, and that'ssomething I work at on a daily
basis and it is so much fun todo.
I'm loving being with mywonderful, wonderful wife and
seeing the progress that my boysare making as sophomores in
college and watching them pointtowards a career in three
(34:33):
different professions that itlooks like right now, and just
being a good family person to myrelatives.
But also I'm involved on theboard of directors at the
Viscardi Center now, where I tryand help other individuals with
disabilities, and one of mygoals is to do as much as I can
(34:55):
to help those with needs,particularly those with
disabilities.
So I'm very thankful that Ihave the opportunity to serve in
that capacity as a member ofthe board of directors of the
Viscardi Center.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
And you've accomplished so much and you're
certainly a huge inspiration,ken, and you are currently in
Long Island, right or New YorkRight.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
I'm in Long Island, which is part of New York, I'm
about 45 minutes from New YorkCity.
Since I'm on Long Island, whichis part of New York, I'm about
45 minutes from New York City.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Since football was your first passion.
I'm even afraid to ask you whois your team?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Oh, the New York Jets For years and years and years.
I live and die following theNew York Jets.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
It's been a rough year for them, so hopefully they
can pick it up Right.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Well, they won their last game, so hopefully that's a
portent of things to come.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, do you get to attend a lot of games out there.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
You know I used to go .
I haven't gone in a while but Iwent for a while and you know
I've had the opportunity to dothat on a number of occasions.
But right now I'm glued to thetelevision set on Sundays and
watching the Jets and the Giantsevery week.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, I'm a big college football fan myself, so
I understand that that's yourfirst passion.
But hey, best of luck to theJets.
I hope they can figure it out.
They seem like a greatorganization, thank you.
So, ken, out of everything thatwe mentioned today, was there
anything that I missed oranything that you'd like to
discuss or talk about before wefinish up the podcast?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
You know, one of the things that I'd like to mention
is there's so much people withdisabilities can do if people
would give them the opportunityto do that.
I had such a difficult timewhen I was looking for a job and
I know there's so many otherswith disabilities that can work,
work well, want to work, and Iknow employees, employers when
(36:49):
they hire somebody with adisability, they find that a
worker with a disability aresome of the hardest workers an
employer can ever hope to find,and they're loyal, dedicated,
devoted employees and I wouldlike employers out there
everywhere to know if they havethe chance to help somebody with
a disability by employingsomebody who's looking for a job
(37:13):
, to do that.
I tell you, it just makes goodbusiness sense for the employer
to do that, but for everybodyelse in addition, helping others
is so important.
There's so much you can do tomake not only your life better
but the lives of those aroundyou better as well.
So find time to help others.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
That's a great message.
It's all about character at theend of the day, resiliency and
work ethic.
When it comes down to it, thephysical limitations might hold
you back a little bit, but inreality, especially in today's
world, that's really no excuse.
I mean there's especiallycoming from when you got injured
(37:56):
and became a quadriplegic in1970.
You made no excuses and youstill went out there, Just like
in a football game.
You put your shoulder down andyou hit life right in the gut
and you are where you are today,being the attorney that you are
, the father of three boys andfinding marriage even later in
(38:21):
life, which can be quitedifficult for folks out there in
today's world.
I'll make sure that I put allyour social media on the show
notes of the podcast, as well asthe YouTube video.
And, ken, I just want to saythank you so much.
I'll let you get back towatching Penn State and the Ohio
State game.
I'm sure you're somewhat of acollege football fan, right,
right.
(38:42):
Yeah, so that's going on rightnow, the OSU Penn State game.
But, ken, thank you so much forthe opportunity.
It's been a pleasure, it's beenan honor to interview someone
of your magnitude of lifeachievements.
So thank you so much, sir.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Thank you, and thank you for giving me this
opportunity to tell my story toall of your listeners.
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Folks, as for everyone else out there, make
sure you follow Ken and, asalways, I want you to stay tuned
, stay focused and staymotivated.
Warriors fall out.
Hey folks, today I have my first civilian guest for
the Morning Formation podcast.
His name is Ken Kunkin.
He is a retired districtattorney.
The most amazing part about Kenis the fact that at 20 years
old he became a quadriplegic.
Now I know that many of us havesetbacks in our lives, whether
they're already there when we'reborn or perhaps something
(00:21):
happens to us.
It's important for you tounderstand that things can
change in the blink of an eye,and for many of you out there
that are listening to thispodcast or watching this podcast
, I think that you'll beinspired with Mr Kunkin's story,
because at 20 years old hecould have just quit and called
it a day and sat down in thechair for the rest of his life
and watched TV.
(00:42):
But instead he went back tocollege, got his law degree,
became a practicing attorney inthe state of New York,
eventually got married and hadtriplet sons.
So I hope that you're inspiredtoday by this podcast.
I hope you enjoy it.
I plan on still interviewingour military community, but I
think there's so many civiliansout there that have such great
(01:03):
stories of resiliency and Ireally enjoyed talking to Mr
Kunkin today and I'm lookingforward to many more shows and
podcasts for TMF podcast TMF forshort.
I do have plans on sellingthese shirts soon, so please
stay tuned and thank you foryour continued support.
I really appreciate it.
Hope you guys are having agreat 2024 so far.
(01:26):
Let's get to the show.
Warriors fall in.
It's time for formation.
You know, I've really focusedin the last two years on
interviewing folks that wererelated somehow in some way to
the military community, and overthe last couple of years I've
realized that there's a lot offolks out there that have very
inspiring, tremendous stories ofovercoming and achieving, and
(01:50):
I'd really like to expand mynetwork out as far as my guests,
to civilians and just folks outthere that have that no-quit
attitude, the grit, theresiliency, because I think
that's one thing that we'remissing in today's environment,
especially in our society.
Today, a lot of people justsimply give up and they're not
willing to fight.
And today I'm very, veryfortunate to be joined by Ken
(02:14):
Kunkin, who is a quadriplegic,an attorney and, probably most
proudest of all, the father oftriplets, which can be quite a
handful.
And so, ken, I just want tothank you today for being on the
Morning.
Formation podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, thank you for having me and giving me the
opportunity to tell my story.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
The honor is all in this end of the microphone.
Honestly, and you know, youovercame a lot at a very young
age, at a formidable age at that.
At 20 years old, you became aquadriplegic and I just want to
give you an opportunity to tellour audience how that came about
and what was that like tryingto pick yourself back up.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Well, it happened soon after I turned 20 years old
.
I had just begun my junior yearat Cornell University, where I
was studying industrialengineering, and I was playing
on their lightweight footballteam, which was a league for
people who were smaller usuallythan the typical heavyweight
varsity football team, but it'sstill a varsity sport.
(03:17):
In fact, two of our games wereagainst the military academies,
Army and Navy.
But I got hurt in a gameagainst Columbia University.
It happened to be on Halloweenday in 1970.
And I made a tackle of the ballcarrier on a kickoff and I
broke my neck and severelydamaged my spinal cord and as a
(03:42):
result, I'm a quadriplegicspinal cord and as a result, I'm
a quadriplegic.
I'm almost totally paralyzedfrom the shoulders down.
I have just a little bit ofmovement in my left arm, but
nothing in my fingers or mywrist, and on the right side of
my body I can just sort of shrugmy shoulder a bit.
So for the last 54 years I'vebeen almost totally paralyzed
(04:08):
years I've been almost totallyparalyzed.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
That's insane In 1970 , let's talk about the
accommodations for folks thatwere in your situation back then
.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Well, that was about 20 years before the Americans
with Disabilities Act, so veryfew facilities were actually
wheelchair accessible.
And when I got out of thehospital, I returned to Cornell
University where I'd beenstudying, and there was not one
ramp or curb cut on the entirecampus.
(04:34):
So every one of the buildingsthat I went to had steps in
front of them, and one of theclasses that I took three times
a week had 16 steps in front ofit, and my dorm room was in a
building that had 10 steps justto get in.
So on my first day of classes Ihad to be either pulled up or
(04:56):
bounce down close to 100 stepsjust to attend my first day.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
That's insane.
And during that time, how manytimes did you hear folks tell
you that you can't?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
All the time.
I mean, I think everybodythought I was probably crazy to
be going back to Cornell, suchan inaccessible campus,
especially so soon after myinjury.
I had only been out of thehospital nine days when I
returned to Cornell and I thinka lot of people thought that
(05:30):
there was not a very good chancefor me to succeed.
I think most people, if theywere going to bet on it,
probably would have betted thatI would not have been able to
even finish the semester.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
At any point in time were you ever like really
embarrassed or felt like youwere just part of a nuisance and
you were like you know, I couldjust quit and go home and
everything would you know.
I could just sit and watch a TVand just kind of you know
weather away.
I mean, was there any pointwhere you've kind of felt like
you know it'd be easier if Iwent the other route?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Many times, many times In fact.
Soon after I returned to school, I was approached by a student
on campus who asked me if I wasKen Kunkin, and when I responded
that I was, he responded aren'tyou supposed to be in the
hospital?
And I have to tell you therewere times when I seriously
thought maybe I should be backin the hospital or rehab center
(06:29):
or back at home with my family,because every day posed new
challenges for me back at schooland, as I say, just dealing
with the enormous number ofsteps was a challenge.
But, in addition, everywhere Iwent I was being stared at,
because it was so unusual to seesomebody in my condition on
(06:52):
this campus and that was veryuncomfortable for me as well.
I never liked drawing specialattention to myself, and
everywhere I went I was beingstared at.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, I can't imagine how awkward that was for you,
even on a daily basis.
So I'm sure that you had folksout there that were the
naysayers.
But who was your support backthen?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Oh, it was definitely my family.
My family's been so supportiveevery step of the way, and by
family I'm not just talkingabout parents, brother and
sister, step of the way.
And by family I'm not justtalking about parents, brother
and sister, I'm talking aboutaunts, uncles, cousins,
everybody that was in any wayboth involved as a relative, but
(07:41):
also a lot of friends, which isso supportive, and they
basically assured me that theywould act as my arms and legs to
make sure I could do everythingI wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, that's huge.
I don't know how anyoneespecially back in 1970, could
have gotten through finishingyou know, any type of
accomplishment like that,especially with the
accessibility that wasn't thereback then.
People probably can't evenimagine like kids today can't
imagine what it's like not tohave a cell phone right.
I can't imagine you being aquadriplegic, in a wheelchair,
(08:12):
needing all the assistance thatyou needed to finish up.
So what was it like finishingup at Cornell, and how did you
decide to become a lawyer?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Okay, first let me just comment one thing.
When you said about kids todaycannot imagine being without a
cell phone.
When I was injured it seemedlike the medical professionals
thought the best I would ever beable to do would be to someday
sell magazine subscriptions overthe telephone.
Now, at that time thetelephones were rotary
(08:41):
telephones.
They weren't even push buttonphones.
The telephones were rotarytelephones, they weren't even
push-button phones.
So I couldn't even dial atelephone back then, let alone
take notes or write anything.
So everything back then posedchallenges.
They certainly didn't havelaptop computers back then.
So everything that I was doingseemed to pose challenges, since
(09:04):
I needed help with virtuallyeverything.
But through a lot of help frommy fellow classmates I was able
to complete the final two yearsof my undergraduate degree in
engineering and I graduated asthe first quadriplegic ever to
graduate from Cornell University.
But after my graduation Istarted to think you know,
(09:27):
engineering just didn't reallyseem like a viable field for me.
I knew that what I reallywanted to do was to help others,
in particular people who weredealing with disabilities or
life-altering diseases or justpeople who were dealing with
significant challenges in theirlife.
So I decided to pursue a careerin counseling and I stayed at
(09:49):
Cornell and I earned a Master ofArts degree in counseling and
student personnel administrationand then to increase oh and by
the way, I became the firstquadriplegic to earn a graduate
degree from Cornell as well.
But to increase my counselingcredentials I then went to
Columbia University where Iearned my second master's degree
(10:12):
.
This was a master of educationdegree in psychological
counseling and rehabilitation,and I decided to look for a job
in the rehabilitation counselingfield.
To my dismay, no one would hireme.
I sent out more than 200resumes and looked for a job for
a year.
(10:32):
I was even turned down when Iwent off to volunteer my
services.
Everyone felt I was just toodisabled to work back then and I
was just really fortunate to behired by a facility called
Abilities Incorporated, whichwas part of what was then called
the Human Resources Center, isnow called the Viscardi Center.
(10:53):
They're located here on LongIsland and they hired me to work
as a vocational rehabilitationcounselor for other individuals
who had severe disabilities.
Now you asked about law school.
I loved the job as arehabilitation counselor and I
worked for more than two yearsat that facility.
(11:13):
But part of my job was to speakat conferences and
organizations to differentgroups about non-discrimination
and affirmative actionconcerning people with
disabilities, and often after mytalks I would be asked
questions and while I would domy best to answer them, I was
(11:35):
always careful to tell thequestions they should really
consult with a lawyer abouttheir concerns.
And I guess it didn't take longbefore I started to think you
know, there's no reason why Icouldn't become that lawyer.
So I left my job and went toHofstra University School of Law
.
While I was in law school Ifound a new way that I could
(11:59):
help people and serve thecommunity.
But one of the things that Ialso did I have an older brother
named Steven who was working asa trial lawyer at the time for
the public defender's office,and I used to watch my brother
in court and I found that was areally exciting type of law that
I thought I could do as well,since it involved mostly
(12:20):
speaking.
So I did an internship at theNassau County District
Attorney's Office, loved theinternship, loved the idea of
working, doing public servicefrom a different perspective,
working as a trial attorney, asa prosecutor.
So I applied for a full-timejob at the office and I was very
(12:42):
fortunate that they hired me afull-time job at the office and
I was very fortunate that theyhired me.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Ken, you're such a huge influencer and such an
inspiration Over the years youknow, with, especially, children
that are disabled, handicapped,how have you tried to reach out
(13:07):
to be sort of an inspiration ora beacon of hope for their
future and and and success?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Well a number of ways .
When I was working at theViscardi Center, they also had a
school there for handicappedchildren and a couple of times I
was a guest speaker there.
And one of the people that Imet there was a person by the
name of Robert Papier who alsoused an electric wheelchair.
He has muscular dystrophy andRob has credited me because
(13:36):
we've interacted on manyoccasions with influencing him,
so much so that he then went tolaw school and is currently a
Nassau County District Courtjudge, and I've been so pleased
to remain good friends withJudge Robert Papir and I know he
(13:57):
has credited me with being hissource of inspiration to go on
and become a lawyer and now ajudge.
So I've tried to interact withchildren whenever I can.
In fact, I was recentlyinducted into a mentoring Hall
of Fame for work I've done intaking student interns or
(14:21):
helping others with their,whether it be their educational
goals or dealing with theirdisabilities.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
It's absolutely amazing, you know.
It's amazing to find folks likeyou out there that haven't had
their stories quite reach alarger audience, and that's why
I'm so honored to talk to youtoday, and you recently had the
award that was named after youas well.
(14:50):
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Oh, as I surprised when the Nassau County District
Attorney's Office, where Iworked for a total of 40 plus
years, decided to present anaward annually, the first time
they've ever done this.
They're presenting an awardannually to an outstanding
assistant district attorney eachyear and they named the award
(15:13):
for me, the Kenneth J KumpkinAward, and I am just so honored
and thrilled that I've beenhonored that way.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah, and so that was started in just 2023, right,
yeah, just this past December.
Amazing, ken, over the years.
Aside from your family and yourtriplets, what would you say,
professionally and career-wise,was your biggest win out of
(15:44):
everything that you'veaccomplished?
Speaker 2 (15:47):
was your biggest win out of everything that you've
accomplished?
Well, the biggest win happenedto be not only just going back
to school and completing myeducation, but seeing now that
so many others are doing thesame thing.
You know, now that colleges anduniversities are being made
more wheelchair accessible, Isee more and more people going
(16:08):
to school, going for highereducation and becoming
professionals in different areas.
Now, when I was first hurt, Ididn't know of any other role
models that I could look to forinspiration and guidance or
support to know that could bedone.
I mean there may have beenpeople out there, but I did not
(16:28):
know about them.
I mean I got hurt well beforeChristopher Reeve was hurt.
Christopher Reeve was such atremendous role model for so
many people and it was such aterrible loss for us all when he
passed away way too early.
But at the time of my injury Ididn't have those role models to
look at.
(16:48):
So I've been just honored thata number of people have said I'm
a role model for them and thatmakes me feel absolutely
terrific that I can help andinspire and motivate people to
do more with their lives.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Absolutely amazing.
I mean, back then.
People can't fathom 1970.
No, that was before I was born.
I was born in 1980.
But even in 1970, there was noway to really connect with folks
unless you met them in person.
There was no Instagram, therewas no Facebook, there was no
TikTok.
There was no way for you tojust go online and type
(17:27):
something in.
You had to know them in person.
They had to be in your radiusof residence in order for you to
really know them, or just bumpinto them while you're traveling
or on vacation or something,and so finding that inspiration
outside of your own circle canbe quite a challenge.
Ken, what would you say overallis your worst day quite a
(17:50):
challenge, ken.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
What would you say overall, is your worst day my
worst day?
Well, that's difficult to saybecause you know there were
quite a number of them, but itwould certainly be soon after my
injury.
While I was a patient in thehospital, the doctors were
telling me very little about thecondition I was in.
I was pretty much kept in thedark about everything and it was
frightening to see that I couldnot move.
(18:12):
I had no sensation through mostof my body and I was constantly
passing out due to problemswith blood pressure.
And you know the what I couldsee in the doctor's eyes and in
the way everybody was treatingme was they were giving me very
(18:34):
little hope that I'd ever beable to leave a useful or
productive or a happy life.
So I would say it was prettymuch the entire time I was in
the hospital was very difficultto deal with on a day-to-day
basis because I felt there justwasn't much hope out there from
(18:55):
the people that I was dealingwith.
And, if I might add one morething, it just seemed to be such
limited expectations forsomeone in my condition.
That's why I mentioned thatthey thought the best I'd ever
be able to do would be to sellmagazine subscriptions over the
telephone.
I'd like people to know thatit's so important to keep your
(19:17):
expectations high for people,because a person's performance
often rises or falls based uponwhat others expect of them.
So it's so important to keepyour expectations high, and I
think that would help so manypeople do more with their lives.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Right.
Just believing in others andmentoring others and having
conversations with folks canmake a world of difference,
because some people are limitedto the end of their street and
that's it.
They think that's where theedge of the earth rounds, and
then they cannot see beyond that.
So definitely someone likeyourself understands that
there's way more beyond thehorizon that you can accomplish.
(19:57):
And I see here, ken, that youfound love late in life.
Talk about that.
That's difficult, I would sayright.
I mean, can you talk a littlebit about how that happened?
You difficult, I would sayRight, I mean, can you talk a
little bit about how thathappened?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
You know it sure is.
You know, like many young men,I dreamed of someday meeting and
having a satisfyingrelationship with the perfect
woman.
And, as you might imagine,dating when you're a
quadriplegic and trying toimpress a woman when you're
almost totally paralyzed posescertainly its own unique set of
(20:29):
challenges.
But I was very fortunate that Imet the woman of my dreams.
My name is anna.
She's actually just sitting tomy right right now, just off
camera, and anna is the mostincredible woman I ever met.
And I met an Anna.
Initially because I was lookingfor an individual to help me on
(20:50):
weekends take care of me withmy physical needs, and I put an
ad in the newspaper that Annaresponded to and I initially
hired Anna as my weekendpersonal care attendant.
And the more Anna and I talkedand got to know each other, our
relationship progressed andclearly we knew there was
(21:12):
something between the two of usthat you just could not put into
words.
It was some real chemistry thatdeveloped and in 2003, anna and
I were married and that was oneof the best times of my life,
and I say one of the bestbecause my story got better.
As you indicated before, I'mnow the father of triplet boys
(21:37):
and through in vitrofertilization, ana became
pregnant and on January 24, 2005, I was present in the delivery
room when my wife, ana, gavebirth to my triplet sons.
So if you're going to talkabout the best day of my life,
that would be it Becoming thefather of triplet boys.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Absolutely.
Absolutely, I mean somethingthat seems out of out of reach.
Absolutely, I mean somethingthat seems out of reach, right?
Because I can't imagine howdifficult it would be for
someone in your situation to goout and date, and even people
that are able to have thefreedom physically to have
difficulties.
(22:21):
I live in LA, so I'm constantlyasking bachelors and
bachelorettes in this crazysociety that we have today,
what's it like out there?
And it's a complete zoo withwith folks and different ideas
and different ideologies.
But so your three boys arethere in college now, right?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
They're all sophomores in college.
They go into three differentschools in upstate New York, all
studying three different majors, and they're doing absolutely
great in each of theirschoolings and they're staying
very close to it, which I'm veryproud of.
They text, they FaceTime witheach other pretty much on a
(23:00):
daily basis.
They've visited each other,they've gone to classes with
each other.
It's just great to see the waythey've developed and progressed
.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Absolutely amazing, and I didn't mean to skip over
this earlier but you went to notjust some midline universities,
you went to the top, basically.
I mean, I went to college too,but I would never imagine myself
having gone to Cornell orHofstra.
Why?
Why was that?
Was it just because of thequality of education?
(23:30):
Did you ever think that I needto go to a lesser type of school
that may have more?
Well, I guess back then therewas probably no universities
that had any more accessibility.
Right, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I mean, actually Hofstra, which was right near my
home, was actually one of thefirst schools to become
wheelchair accessible.
But I was a junior at Cornellat the time of my injury and I
enjoyed it there so much and Iknew I had friends in my
fraternity I was in the Sigma Nufraternity and friends on the
(24:01):
football team and I just thought, if I'm going to go back to
school, that's where I wanted togo because I enjoyed it there
so much and I am so proud of allthree of my boys.
But I have to tell you that 50years after I graduated from
Cornell, my son, joseph, becamea freshman there.
(24:21):
So one of my boys is actuallygoing to my alma mater, the
other two are going to schoolsnearby and I couldn't be more
proud of all three of them.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Nice, yes, well, sounds like they have
foundationally great parents outthere, especially, you know, a
mother that you know found love,I think, right in the heart and
the soul of someone.
Versus, you know, at the end ofthe day, everyone out there is
all about just the surface stuff, right, but it sounds like you
(24:54):
and Anna really developed somedeep, deep emotional feelings
for each other, and you've beenyou're a highly intelligent man
with a lot of resiliency behindyou as well.
Just want to ask you, you knowbehind you as well, just want to
ask you, you know, for folksout there that are listening,
(25:18):
can you talk about anything thathas to do with inspiring
someone to help motivate them tomake the most of a bad
situation?
We're all dealt a differenthand of cards.
What message do you have forthose folks out there?
You?
Speaker 2 (25:26):
know it's so important to believe in yourself
.
You need to believe that youcan accomplish anything you set
your mind to.
You know I love my secretaryonce showed me a clipping in the
mail and it showed of apussycat looking in the mirror
(25:46):
and seeing himself as a lion.
And that's how you need to feelabout yourself.
You need to look in that mirrorand feel like you are the king
of the jungle, that you canaccomplish anything that you set
your mind to.
And no, don't listen to thenaysayers, don't listen to the
people who tell you you can't dosomething or that it's just too
(26:07):
difficult.
You need to believe that youcan accomplish anything you set
your mind to it and then make upyour mind to work hard to do
that.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yes, and you know, just sitting here thinking about
it, I went to Wright StateUniversity for my undergraduate
degree, which is a very muchaccessible university, and there
was quite a few folks that weredisabled, handicapped, and I
had a really good friend of minenamed Kara, who was in a
wheelchair, who was in awheelchair, and her now husband,
(26:40):
adam, was as well, and so Ijust want to give a quick shout
out to them, just thinking aboutthem right now and and
listening to your stories andall the things that they
overcame.
She's, she was always kind ofan inspiration for me in that
aspect.
And, ken, what would you sayoverall?
What would you say overall,motivates you or has motivated
you to be the best that youcould be?
(27:01):
Where does all this come from?
Where does that fire come from?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Well, it certainly starts with my family.
I mean my family is bondedtogether.
My family has been overcomingobstacles every step of the way.
I mean one thing I don'tbelieve you know or the
listeners know shortly after Iwas born, my mother died.
My mother died from polioduring the polio epidemic in
(27:25):
1950.
So I was less than a month oldwhen my mother died and at the
time my brother had polio aswell, but fortunately his was a
mild case and he totallyrecovered.
In fact he later became aterrific athlete.
But my family, my extendedfamily, everyone grandparents,
(27:45):
aunts, uncles, cousins havealways bonded together to help
each other, and it was throughtheir help and support that I
was able to do the things that Idid.
That nobody thought would bepossible, but everybody helped
me do it.
And one of the things that Iwould encourage your listeners
to is it's so important toparticipate.
(28:06):
Don't just sit back at homewaiting for something to happen.
Good things come to you whenyou work for them, and it's only
when you're actively involvedthat you have control over the
outcome.
So my message would be get outthere, participate and do as
much with your life as you can.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Life goes by so fast.
I feel like after I turned 21,I blinked and I was like 30 and
I blinked again and I became 40.
So get out there and get outthere and do as much as you can
every day.
And, ken, I want to make surethat I mention this as well.
I understand that you recentlywrote a book about your life.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat as well?
Sure.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I wrote a book called I Dream of Things that Never
Were the Ken Kumpkin Story,which is about my entire life,
but certainly mostly since myinjury, and I describe in a lot
of detail exactly what it waslike from my perspective what it
was like being a patient andgoing through what I went
(29:09):
through, and how I felt when Iwas dealing with medical
professionals, how I felt when Iwas dealing going back at
school and dealing not only withthe school administration but
professors and classmates andthe reactions that I got, and
what it was like to date again,to go out on a date, to fall in
(29:30):
love, to get married and to gothrough the in vitro
fertilization, and then whatit's like the wonderful life I
have now being the father oftriplets.
So my book is called I Dream ofThings that Never Were the Ken
Kunkin Story, and if I mightjust tell you how I came up with
that title, while I was still apatient in the rehab center, I
(29:53):
was asked to testify before aUnited States Senate Health
Subcommittee chaired by SenatorEdward Kennedy, and eight days
after my testimony, senatorKennedy sent me a glass
paperweight in the mail that hadan inscription on it that the
senator said his late brother,robert Kennedy, liked very much,
and the words on thatinscription were some men see
(30:18):
things as they are and say why.
I dream of things that neverwere and say why not?
And that's why I got the titleof my book I Dream of Things
that Never Were.
So you could look for it on mywebsite, kenkunkencom.
It'll tell you how it could bepurchased.
Obviously, it could bepurchased on Amazon, but there
(30:41):
are other ways as well.
So if everybody would like tobuy the book, they can go to
kenkunkincom and it'll tell youhow to purchase the book.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Sounds like it'd be a great Christmas gift.
The holiday is coming up soon.
Definitely something to checkout.
I know I like to download a lotof audio books.
Do you have it on there, Ken?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
You know we're actually working on an audio
book.
I've already dictated the book.
It still needs to be edited andput together, but we're working
on that.
But the book is also availableas an e-book in Kindle, so you
could buy it right now on eitherhardcover or on the Kindle, and
we're working on the audiobook.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Awesome.
Yeah, I live in a verytraffic-filled city here in Los
Angeles, so I'm constantlylistening to things on the go,
and that's what really got meinto podcasting.
Was that two to three-tier deeplevel of conversation that
we're having today as well,today's hustle and bustle.
I live in a big city myself andI can't even imagine the
frustrations that you have, justphysically and just mentally,
with everything going on.
(31:48):
What advice do you have forfolks out there when it comes to
dealing with stress overall?
I can't imagine how frustratedyou get at times about things,
but what advice do you have forfolks out there and how do you
deal with stress?
Speaker 2 (32:05):
You know that's an interesting question.
That's one of the questionsmost people never ask me or
never think about, and that'sbeen one of the difficult
adjustments I've had to make.
Before my injury, one of theways I dealt with stress was out
on the football field.
I could take out all myfrustrations, but I go out on
the football field and run intosomebody or do something
(32:28):
physically active.
Once I was injured I didn'thave that outlet for stressful
situations.
So what I found that was tohelp me was if I can get out in
nature, spend time sitting outin the garden or hopefully
sitting by the ocean or a lake,you know, or just in a in a you
(32:50):
know a grassy area and justspend some time with nature.
Now my best stress relieversare my children.
You know, whenever I'm in astressful situation, if I could
spend time with them and see howthey are handling their
day-to-day activities and seethe smiles on their faces, that
(33:12):
takes away almost all myanxieties.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yeah, I could totally see where when they were babies
they were probably stressingyou out quite a bit.
Now that they're older, theytake probably stressing you out
quite a bit.
Now that they're older, theytake care of themselves.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Right, that's right.
But you know, it is so much joyin their eyes and watching the
things they do, and they're sohelpful to me as well.
In fact, even when they werelittle, if they went out they'd
come back and say, dad, youcould go there, it's accessible,
it has a ramp.
They would notice these thingseven at an early age.
It's great to see, and they aresuch great help to me as well.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, I guess the stress question just kind of
came up in my mind where I wasjust thinking man, like we
constantly, on a day-to-daybasis, stress out about things,
but Ken, you must go through somuch more, and where do you go
from here?
I mean, you've accomplished somuch.
Do you have goals for thefuture, like things that you
want to accomplish still?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
My goal is to be the best husband and father I could
possibly be, and that'ssomething I work at on a daily
basis and it is so much fun todo.
I'm loving being with mywonderful, wonderful wife and
seeing the progress that my boysare making as sophomores in
college and watching them pointtowards a career in three
(34:33):
different professions that itlooks like right now, and just
being a good family person to myrelatives.
But also I'm involved on theboard of directors at the
Viscardi Center now, where I tryand help other individuals with
disabilities, and one of mygoals is to do as much as I can
(34:55):
to help those with needs,particularly those with
disabilities.
So I'm very thankful that Ihave the opportunity to serve in
that capacity as a member ofthe board of directors of the
Viscardi Center.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
And you've accomplished so much and you're
certainly a huge inspiration,ken, and you are currently in
Long Island, right or New YorkRight.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
I'm in Long Island, which is part of New York, I'm
about 45 minutes from New YorkCity.
Since I'm on Long Island, whichis part of New York, I'm about
45 minutes from New York City.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Since football was your first passion.
I'm even afraid to ask you whois your team?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Oh, the New York Jets For years and years and years.
I live and die following theNew York Jets.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
It's been a rough year for them, so hopefully they
can pick it up Right.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Well, they won their last game, so hopefully that's a
portent of things to come.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, do you get to attend a lot of games out there.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
You know I used to go .
I haven't gone in a while but Iwent for a while and you know
I've had the opportunity to dothat on a number of occasions.
But right now I'm glued to thetelevision set on Sundays and
watching the Jets and the Giantsevery week.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, I'm a big college football fan myself, so
I understand that that's yourfirst passion.
But hey, best of luck to theJets.
I hope they can figure it out.
They seem like a greatorganization, thank you.
So, ken, out of everything thatwe mentioned today, was there
anything that I missed oranything that you'd like to
discuss or talk about before wefinish up the podcast?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
You know, one of the things that I'd like to mention
is there's so much people withdisabilities can do if people
would give them the opportunityto do that.
I had such a difficult timewhen I was looking for a job and
I know there's so many otherswith disabilities that can work,
work well, want to work, and Iknow employees, employers when
(36:49):
they hire somebody with adisability, they find that a
worker with a disability aresome of the hardest workers an
employer can ever hope to find,and they're loyal, dedicated,
devoted employees and I wouldlike employers out there
everywhere to know if they havethe chance to help somebody with
a disability by employingsomebody who's looking for a job
(37:13):
, to do that.
I tell you, it just makes goodbusiness sense for the employer
to do that, but for everybodyelse in addition, helping others
is so important.
There's so much you can do tomake not only your life better
but the lives of those aroundyou better as well.
So find time to help others.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
That's a great message.
It's all about character at theend of the day, resiliency and
work ethic.
When it comes down to it, thephysical limitations might hold
you back a little bit, but inreality, especially in today's
world, that's really no excuse.
I mean there's especiallycoming from when you got injured
(37:56):
and became a quadriplegic in1970.
You made no excuses and youstill went out there, Just like
in a football game.
You put your shoulder down andyou hit life right in the gut
and you are where you are today,being the attorney that you are
, the father of three boys andfinding marriage even later in
(38:21):
life, which can be quitedifficult for folks out there in
today's world.
I'll make sure that I put allyour social media on the show
notes of the podcast, as well asthe YouTube video.
And, ken, I just want to saythank you so much.
I'll let you get back towatching Penn State and the Ohio
State game.
I'm sure you're somewhat of acollege football fan, right,
right.
(38:42):
Yeah, so that's going on rightnow, the OSU Penn State game.
But, ken, thank you so much forthe opportunity.
It's been a pleasure, it's beenan honor to interview someone
of your magnitude of lifeachievements.
So thank you so much, sir.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Thank you, and thank you for giving me this
opportunity to tell my story toall of your listeners.
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Folks, as for everyone else out there, make
sure you follow Ken and, asalways, I want you to stay tuned
, stay focused and staymotivated.
Warriors fall out.
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