May 12, 2026 • 66 mins
Today on the show I speak with drumming legend - Derrick McKenzie.
Derrick is a British based drummer/dj/producer known worldwide for his time with Acid Funk pioneers 'Jamiroquai' - a band who (at this point) he has been with for over 3 decades.In addition to his amazing career with Jamiroquai he has also worked with 'Purple Disco Machine', DR Packer and Matt Johnson (among others).
He has also been making numerous waves on the disco/house scene over the last few years where he is currently the only combined DJ/drummer/musician on the prestige international DJ circuit.I was so happy to talk with Derrick as in my opinion he is a complete groove master.
During our conversation, we talk about touring, pocket, AI and even drumming on phone books.For more information on Derrick McKenzie or his work, please search for him across all socials or visit www.derrickmckenzie.com.
For further information on Travis Marc or 'Musicians-Mentor' website, please visit www.musicians-mentor.com
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome tothe Musicians Mentor Podcast.
I'm your host Travis Mark and with me on episode 98, I have
none other than British drumminglegend Derek McKenzie.
Many of you may know of Derek from his over 3 decade long
(00:23):
career with acid funk group Jamiroquai, but in addition to
that he has also performed and collaborated musically with
award-winning international musicians and DJs like Purple
Disco Machine, Fernanda Rosa, Richard Earnshaw and Matt
Johnson. Derrick also teaches and
producers and DJs. In fact on the international DJ
(00:45):
circuit, he's currently the onlyDJ slash drummer slash producer
touring in that world. That in itself is pretty
incredible. If you've never checked out
Jamiroquai or Derricks plane, I strongly encourage you to.
There's an instant toe tapping, head nodding, shoulder bopping
kind of thing that happens when you hear the groove that this
(01:08):
man possesses. So as usual, I want to publicly
thank Derek for his time. I want to thank each and
everyone of you for your time. If you are enjoying these
podcasts, whether they're the audio version or the video
version, please do me a favor. Follow us on socials, follow us
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your preferred streaming service.
Don't forget to check out our affiliation with the folks over
(01:31):
at Soundbrenner. That code recently changed.
It's in our show notes, but you'll get 20% off if you are
interested in trying any of their products.
For now, I want to jump straightinto this interview.
Ladies and gentlemen, please help me welcome the one and only
Derek McKenzie. The one and only Mr. Derek
(01:54):
McKenzie. UK based drummer, DJ, musician.
Just awesome dude. I can't thank you enough for
joining me on the Musicians Mentor Podcast.
Thank you for having me, man, Thank you.
Anytime we are going to start this interview the same way that
I start all of these interviews.And it's always a little strange
(02:14):
because even though I'm going torecord an introduction post our
chat, we are beef you up. And I talk about the fact that
you've been with Jamiroquai for so long, your DJ career, the
fact that you've been involved with teaching, you've done stuff
with John Newman and the lovebirds and Matt Johnson and,
and, and, and what I typically do is I ask my guests to give us
(02:37):
an introduction from your point of view.
Tell the listeners who Derek McKenzie is so that if nothing
else, they get an idea of your mindset during today's
conversation. So if you wouldn't mind, Derek,
tell the listeners who Derek McKenzie is.
Well, I'm a drummer drum with Jamiroquai.
(02:58):
I've been with them for 32 years.
I've got hay fever, got hay fever.
I like to produce and write. I'm a DJ as well.
I'm a label owner as well. So I'm just trying to do so many
(03:19):
things all at once. I love music.
I love playing drums first and foremost.
And that's the. That's kind of me in about 15
seconds, really. Yeah.
Beautiful. Let's paint a bit of a picture
as to your upbringing and how music became such an important
(03:41):
part of your life. And if it wasn't drumming
specifically from the start, talk to me about how the
drumming bug bit you once music became a part of your life.
To be honest with you, I, I mean, I've been into drums from
where when I was a kid basicallybecause my mum and dad played
(04:03):
music all the time in the, in the house, especially on a
weekend of working the week. But on the weekend they would
just play music from the morninguntil late at night, you know,
And it would be the same with on, you know, Saturday and
Sunday it would be the same thing.
(04:25):
We'd have people come round, they'd come round, hang out,
have some dinner, have a few drinks, all that kind of stuff.
Because my dad was a great host and I'd just be listening to
music all, all the time, you know.
But I was always into the, the reggae style that which is what
my mum and dad bought me up on the whole reggae style thing.
(04:46):
And as that went on event, you know, I just kind of picked up a
pair of coat hangers and startedhitting the floor with it.
And that was most probably whereI got the bug.
But only, you know, of course, Iwas a kid.
Do you know what I mean? You know, So that's that's what
I've got the bug from. But it really hit me when, you
(05:07):
know, much further on when I wasabout maybe 10 or 11 and I
joined semi joined a band with my mates on my, on my ride
really. I just got into kind of got into
the whole drumming thing from there really.
You know, I took it seriously when I was about 3014.
(05:32):
That's when I took, started to take it seriously.
Yeah. And then really getting into it
from then. Can you define that a little
bit, taking it seriously? What do you mean by that?
You started taking lessons. No, because I've never had
lessons. I'm completely self-taught.
So what I used to do is listen to music and just play along to
(05:53):
music. I'd watch videos of how other
drummers played and then kind ofimitate the way that they
played. Do you know what I mean?
You know, And it was one of my sister's old boyfriend who he
was an organ player. He said, you know what, you can
play. You've got rhythm.
(06:14):
You know, you've got you could play.
Have you ever played drums before?
And I went, Nah, never. So he'd said, come along to one
of the rehearsals. I'm like, OK, so I did went
along to one of the rehearsals and, you know, saw this massive
drum kit and like, you know, 8 inch to like, you know, 16 inch
Toms all the way around, snare drum symbols everywhere.
(06:37):
And they were played this music playing like reggae music and
stuff. And the drummer said, oh, do you
want to have a go on the drums? I was like, yeah, go on then.
Yeah, I'll have a go. I've never played before.
So I've gotten the drums and butit was the wrong way round
because he's right-handed. So he played this way, you know,
and he straight away he said he goes, are you left-handed?
(07:00):
So I went, Oh yeah, yeah, I'm left-handed.
So we said, oh, swap it round. So we swapped it round.
And then immediately I felt comfortable because that was the
way that I was playing at home. But I remember I did have a drum
kit at home at all, you know, didn't have a drum kit at all.
And then just started playing and the guys were playing and
stuff and, and kind of good. That's when the bug really hit
(07:24):
me. From that point there, when I
had my, when I played on that kit from there, what was it a
Pearl or a premier or something like that, you know?
Awesome. Massive kit.
I was only tiny. Just massive kit, you know?
Yeah. Very kind of him to let you
switch. You know, some drummers get so
weird with this stuff. You know, like don't touch my
(07:45):
drums. It was like, I mean, it's only
the snare and the high hat. It was enough for me to get into
it. And I just thought, Oh yeah,
really loving this. And I kind of just just got it
from there really. And then just started just
practising more and then bits and more musicians and and then
a good friend of the band who, if I remember rightly, was a he
(08:08):
wasn't a drummer to start, but Ithink he was a guitarist.
And then he turned to drums and said you do rudiments.
So I said no, because I didn't know what rudiments were because
I would just be listening to rhythms and just playing.
And he said, Oh yeah, play, get rudiments is the best way, you
know, to get exercising and playing and building up and
(08:28):
stuff like that. And so I said, all right, cool.
So I then got a book. I'm going to show you the book
because. Yeah, please do.
It's a book that I absolutely swear by and even to this day
I've been. I've got a couple of other other
books as well. Stick control.
Amazing book. That's the book.
(08:49):
So I've been literally been, I started that book basically.
And admittedly, it's actually quite a difficult book.
As simple as it sounds, it's actually quite a difficult book.
But he said learn those exercises and you'll be able to
develop, develop more. And I've just basically just
(09:11):
been, and I started on that, bought my first pair of
drumsticks and they just startedpracticing.
Do you know what I mean? You know, amazing practising on
telephone books. Which is great because again, if
you think about Rebound as a drummer, yeah, the fact that you
are hitting a book like a telephone book, especially they
used to be big thick books, right?
(09:32):
It's not, it's not like you're just getting this natural
rebound. You almost force your hands and
your fingers and your wrists andto learn how to do some of these
motions, you know, I think that's great.
Well, look, before I go to my next question, since you brought
up the stick control book, what is your general approach there?
So let's let's just take an exercise.
You take exercise number six outof whatever page it is.
(09:55):
What do you typically do? Do you just play it on the snare
drum? Do you try and execute it around
the drums? What's your approach?
Always on a drum. Pad.
Oh, it's cool. Always, always on a drum pad,
starting with my weak hand. Always starting with my weak
hand because I'm left-handed so I'm not.
So what I do is train the brain to, I think, OK, I'm going to
(10:20):
start with the weekend. So it makes it kind of awkward
for me, do you know what I mean?So then by the time my brain
says, Oh yeah, you're used to doing this, you then switch to
the left hand, which is your normal hand, and it becomes
quite easy to play. It kind of makes you somewhat,
I'm going to say not, you know, like Simon Phillips
ambidextrous. Do you know what I mean?
(10:42):
You know, but I could say I'm kind of semi semi ambidextrous
and projectors. I'm like semi semi because I do
a lot of my exercises, you know,starting with the starting with
my weak hand, you know, and I'm always a fan of, I'm a massive
fan of, of exercises and, and stuff, you know, and also at the
(11:05):
minute I'm looking at Aneka Niles.
Oh yeah, she's great. Yeah, so she's, she has her book
of which I'm looking at as well,and that's got some amazing
stuff in it, great exercises, highly recommend it.
Just like the stick control book.
But these you could take, you could take all this around the
kit, as any drummer would tell you, you know what I mean?
(11:27):
And the same with Anakinals's stuff.
You could just take it around the kit any way, any way you
like. And a lot of the drum see a lot
of these exercises, they'll start with the right hand
anyway. So for me, it's just normal just
to start with the right hand, tostart anything new, just start
with the right hand and then switch to your your strong hand
and then try and work it around the kit.
(11:49):
That's my approach anyway. Yeah, that's amazing, man.
And I've got to give you props on the fact that you've
essentially reached a pinnacle that a lot of drummers hope to
reach. You've been there.
You've been there for years and you can still tell that
enthusiasm when talking about what a lot of guys would regard
as geekery. You know, like we're talking
(12:10):
about drum books. I mean, when was Stick Control
published? Like 1927 or.
Some shit way. Back, you know, it's so old,
Like, I remember when I used to teach, I would show younger,
like students stick control. They would just look at that
picture. They'd be like, oh, that's so
old. They like, did this book will
change your life, you know? OK, well, Derek.
(12:31):
So you eventually land up joining Jamiroquai in around 94,
at least that's what my researchsaid.
So talk to me about how that opportunity came about.
And again, not to like dissect your whole life here, but but
was there an audition process? If there was, what did it
(12:53):
entail? Etcetera, etcetera.
So going back, so the band I waswith before Jamiroquai was a
band called Urban Species and they're, they are like a hip hop
band basically, essentially a hip hop band, rap band.
And that was signed to Not Talking Loud.
(13:18):
That was basically. So I did a few tours with them
and I was with them for about two years, maybe three years,
you know, and coming towards theend of the second or third year,
I, I wanted a change basically. But I really enjoyed the gig.
(13:38):
But I just wanted to change. I just wanted to be stretched a
bit, let's put it that way, you know, and coming from a kind of
disco funk fusiony kind of background, I just wanted to do
more of that basically. And then and I got AI went to a
(14:03):
friend's BBQ basically I went toa friend's barbecue and met my
friend's brother, a guy called Simon Law who's a good producer,
drummer, producer. And and I just just gave him my
number basically and said if youneed a drummer, blah blah, blah.
And he'd seen me drum before with a previous band called
(14:25):
Candyland, basically. And he said if you he goes,
yeah, no problem. If I need drums, I'll give you a
shout. We're all good.
Anyway, as it goes, like literally maybe a few days
later, if not a week maximum, the phone rings and it's EMI
(14:46):
Publishing going, oh, we got your number from Simon Law.
And there's this band, Jamiroquai, looking for a new
drummer. I'm like, OK, cool.
And I didn't know who Jamiroquaiwas at the time, so they had
already had the they had the success of the first album.
I'd heard the tracks, but I didn't know who it was.
(15:07):
But in my head thought, oh, that's actually quite cool.
I quite like that. So he says they're looking for a
new drummer. He felt to have an audition.
Yeah, OK, fine. All right, yeah, I'll try my
luck. So I went down to the audition
at a studio. So had a rehearsal with urban
species the day of the audition of which I couldn't get out of.
(15:31):
So I went along to the audition but said to them, we need to
leave early because I've got an appointment.
So I left the I left the the rehearsals, went across from
North London to West London to this to this rehearsal space and
met the guys and met like Toby, rest in peace, bless him.
(15:56):
Stuart Wallace was a guitarist there.
I don't think the guitarist was there at the time.
Maybe was Gavin was it was theremanager Kevin and they were just
like, so this is me going in on the last day.
Sorry at the as the last drummeron the last day because they'd
(16:18):
had a whole audition the day before and I was the last
drummer on the last day basically went in, played the
tracks and funnily enough, I wasgiven the album maybe like a
three weeks before. I've just given the album by a
friend of mine who said oh you've got to listen to this
(16:39):
band, they're really good, checkthem out.
Anyway, you know, put it in, listen to it a couple of times
and then didn't really think much of it.
And then of course going across to the audition, I was listening
to the tracks, but you know, I don't know what I'm going to
play so I'm just listening to the tracks as I'm going across.
Anyway, back to the back into the rehearsal room, started
(17:00):
playing and played the track. It was great.
Had a really good time, played another track, had a really good
time and then now we've been playing for like an hour
basically. So I played quite a few track,
I've been playing for like an hour, the back of the room, the
manager standing up with anotherguy next to him and I didn't
(17:24):
think anything of it. So the guy comes, he comes
forward and he goes, Hi, my name's Jay.
I'm like all right mate, nice tomeet you.
Shook his head. And then I just sat down and
then just started because I was connecting with the musicians
and they were going, oh, yeah, OK, now we're going to do this.
(17:45):
So we started playing, and I think we played.
Not when you're going to learn. Too young to die.
OK All right. OK.
Started playing. And then this guy picks up the
phone that puts up the microphone and starts singing.
(18:06):
And of course, immediately I then recognised the voice.
I'm like, oh, so you're the guy who's singing on the tracks
anyway, played the tracks, had areally good time.
It went really well. And then Jay wanted to do a bit
more auditioning. Do you know what I mean?
You know, a bit more playing andstuff.
So we just started jamming out some tracks and stuff like that.
(18:31):
They said, all right, yeah, cool, nice one, you know, will
call you back for a second audition.
So I went back for a second audition, played again for
another. However long it was, it was
forever. Do you know what I mean?
You know, because it's me and another guy and I and I and I
played. He came in the morning, I came
in the afternoon, played again. And then we played and then just
(18:56):
started making up jams, doing some jamming stuff and just
playing some good grooves and stuff.
You know, it's kind of funky, not disc.
At the time it was more funky stuff, you know, kind of break
beat, funky drummer kinds of stuff.
All that did that. And one of the tracks that came
out of it was Just Another Story, which is on Return the
(19:19):
Space Cowboy, the opening track.Great album.
So yeah, thank you and the guys.And the next time I left.
Nice to meet you. I mean, because I still had my
job with the other band. So I was like, well, if I get
it, I get it. If I don't, I don't.
So I was neither here nor there,you know.
Anyway, the phone goes, it's Kevin about shopping.
(19:41):
All right, mate. Oh yeah, there, it's Kevin.
Anyway, just to let you know, you've got the job.
I was like, oh, fantastic, great.
You know what's you know, then he started talking to me about
some business stuff and all that.
I'm like, well, I don't know. You know, this is what I'm on
with this band. I'm new to the business.
(20:01):
I'm new to the business. Anyway, he says no problem, come
down. We're going to start recording
next week. Wow, that quick.
OK, all right. So then I then had to then go to
the other and say, look, guys, I'm really sorry, but I'm going
(20:22):
to have to leave because I'm nowgoing to be starting recording.
But then I've got another job, right?
And I didn't want to say who it was with or anything like that.
But anyway, they forced my hand.Do you know what I mean?
So I had to tell them and they were like, oh, OK, all right,
cool, you know. So then I had to find someone
else to take my place with the hip hop band that I was with.
(20:44):
So I found my, my friend who, who was great, who I always call
to replace me, a guy called Paulslowly, bless him, he's great,
you know, and he came over, he took over.
And then the following week I was in, I was in the studio with
Jamiroquai. And that was kind of the
process. That was the process of what I
went through. So two really long auditions and
(21:05):
connecting with the guys. That's amazing.
I mean, especially when you consider they've been doing
auditions for a whole day and you're the last guy.
I'm the last guy in the last. Usually they so sick of seeing
dudes by then that like, you know, even if you're blazing,
they like, I just want to get out of here.
So that's incredible. I want to stay on the audition
(21:28):
thing for just another minute ortwo and then we'll move on.
Yeah, cool. What advice would you OfferUp
and coming musicians on trying to keep their nerves in check
when in audition situations? Well, I would say, but, but I'm
(21:50):
only looking at this as an unknown, not as a known drummer,
but as an unknown drummer, right.
So I'm an unknown drummer and I've just gone in there,
listened to the tracks, did did some homework.
Do you know what I mean? You know, my thing is with is do
your homework, listen to the tracks.
I mean, they might send you sometracks to learn.
(22:10):
They go right. You got to learn these tracks,
do your homework, learn those tracks.
You know, I did have no homework.
It was it could I only had the one album.
So I just had to listen to the album on the way to the
audition. It just so happened.
Blind luck or with, with God's help, should I say God's help?
(22:31):
They played the tracks that I listened to, which is just
literally just a godsend for me.You know what I mean?
You know, So you know, do your homework, be calm, turn up on
time, don't be over over enthusiastic.
(22:54):
Just be cool. Just be relaxed, calm, cool, you
know, just just do your homework.
That's the thing that when you play, you play with you play
their track with confidence. Play their tracks with
confidence because especially ifthe tracks have got stop start
(23:16):
that all that kind of stuff. Do you know what I mean?
You know, the generic 1 stuff has stops in it.
Do you know what I mean? You know, so I was lucky I
because I listened to the tracks, I kind of got the
stopped. Do you know what I mean?
You know, and then if you are going to, if they are you to
play a track which is completelyunknown track even to them, just
(23:39):
play what's required. You don't need to be going all
out. Just make it sound good and
groovy. That's the thing.
You don't need to overplay. You don't need to do any fancy
stuff. That time will come.
Basically, you got to show that you could fit into the unit, you
know? So if you can fit into the unit
you're in, basically just have agood attitude.
(24:01):
Yeah, have a good attitude, you know.
Great advice. Let's talk about longevity.
And what I mean by this is within a group.
I mean, 32 years in a group, this is almost unheard of.
I mean, it does happen, obviously, but it seems to just
happen less and less. It's like you read, I go to
(24:21):
Wikipedia and read about bands. It's like, I'm such a geek with
this stuff. It's like, I find a band I love.
I just go research everything about them and I read and some
of these dudes will have like 400 past band members and you'd
be like whoa, you know, Or it's like like especially bands from
the 90s, a lot of bands from the90s, it's really down to one guy
(24:44):
and like 3 dudes who tour and noone really even cares who they
are. But like they get, they get a
salary and like listen cool man.Like I'm not even, I'm not even
judging it. But like, what are some things
that can possibly help musiciansmaintain longevity in a group,
(25:05):
which is a hard question to answer.
So. So I suppose maybe an easy way
to look at it would be, are theyattributes or characteristics on
a personal level away from play?Let's assume a guy, a cat's got
all these playing together. Are they things on a personal
level that maybe people could work on so that they gel better
(25:30):
with people and maybe land up ending up in a group for 32
years? Because that is mind blowing.
I think it's just being humble, I suppose got to be humble
(25:52):
outside if you're, if you're saying outside of music
personality goes a wrong a long way, right?
You can't be overbearing, can't be overbearing.
I could definitely say with all the members that are, that have,
that have been and are now in the band, nobody's overbearing,
(26:15):
nobody's overbearing. Everybody works together as a
family. You see, we all listen to the
same kinds of music. We're all, we're all bought up
on the same kind of music. That's one of the first things I
noticed with Jamiroquai. We've all been bought up on the
same kind of music. We work together outside of the
(26:37):
band as well as within the band unit as well, you see.
And that's also what keeps it all together as well, you know,
we ring each other. How are you doing?
Is everything all right? No, no, no.
All that kind of stuff. Sending messages.
Do you know what I mean? You know, is everything OK?
You know, and if there's a spot of bother, we support each
other, you know, if there's a spot of bother, personal or not,
(27:00):
whatever, you know, we support each other.
And also one of the main things for me is loyalty to one
another. Do you know what I mean?
You know? Oh yeah, I know what you mean.
It's a. Really important thing.
I'm not going to mince my words here Loyalty is a is a massive
(27:20):
thing. Loyalty is a massive thing
doesn't matter what's going on got to be loyal to each other.
You can't be mincing about. You know what I mean?
You just got if one thing I havenoticed with us is that if
something is not quite right, wecan openly say it to each other
and we take it as a constructivecriticism.
(27:43):
Because I know there's beats that I play.
One of the first people to get to get absolutely habit is
always the drummer. It's always the drummer.
It's always the drummer's fault.Do you know what I mean?
Dad don't sound right. Why?
Because the drummer's crap. Not really that is it really?
You know, so you need to work asa unit, being loyal to each
(28:05):
other, being able to take the constructive criticism in as
individuals, whether it be within the band or outside of
the band. You've got to be able to take
that criticism and use it to your advantage.
Some of it could be useless criticism, but a lot of the time
you're not actually thinking about what that person's
(28:27):
thinking. So it's, you know, they're
thinking out-of-the-box. I know for a fact Jay thinks
out-of-the-box. Fact I've worked with him for so
long and he'll come up with the beat that I wouldn't even have
thought of. So when he tells me a beat, try
this, I'll go, yeah. Do you know what?
I'm actually going to try that. And he pushes me.
Do you know what I mean? Toby would push me.
(28:48):
Rob pushes me, Matt pushes me, even on his projects, you know
what I mean? All the guys, they push me.
Paul on the base, you know, he pushes me as well, you know,
Stuart is pushing me. Do you know what I mean?
You know, and if they have any kind of criticism, no, don't try
that. Try this.
Don't play this role. Play that role.
Do you know what I mean? There's a reason why they're
saying it. I can't work it out until I play
(29:10):
it. And then when I go back and
listen to it, then I go, oh, OK,right.
That works, you know, Or if it doesn't quite work, I can then
adapt it to make it work. You see, this is just coming
from the drummer's point of view.
But of course, yeah, with the longevity of a band, it's
definitely loyalty and support. You know, that's what keeps it
(29:31):
all all going. And once you're all gelling as a
band, as a unit, it just keeps flowing.
You see, It just keeps flowing because you want it to be a
family at the back end of it. The people who work outside of
that family. From a business point of view,
(29:51):
keep the train flowing along By all means, do you know what I
mean? But don't dare I say, involve
yourself in the creative process.
You know what I mean? I don't mean that in a bad way.
No, I totally get it. You know what I'm saying is this
is where we are, this is how we work.
This is how it works. It works well.
(30:13):
Do you know what I mean? What we don't need is people
from a business point of view and Brit, you could put in in
their two pennies worth when they don't know nothing about
the creative process. You know, from drum sounds,
guitar sounds, keyboard sounds, even the writing.
Yeah, you know what I mean. You don't know about it.
Your, your thing is business. I'm not going to come and tell
(30:35):
you how to run your business. So don't come in here and and
say and judge me or tell me whatI'm worth.
I know what I'm worth to the band.
The band know what I'm worth. I know what the band are worth.
Do you know what I mean? And that's what makes it all
work. So you can't be.
And this is what keeps it all together.
We stick. We must stick together, you
(30:56):
know? You know we must stick together.
And yes, it will. Sometimes the criticism ruffles
a few feathers, but the end result is always good.
Yeah. The fact that you guys are in a
position that you can openly criticize each other, yeah.
(31:16):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure it's in a very
respectful way that that speaks.Completely.
Heaps because think about how many bands, whether they're
established or not. Yeah.
You know, something as simple asthe drummer tapping on a rim
during a sound check starts to irk the guitarist.
(31:40):
In three dates on a tour, the guitarist smashes him in the
face with the guitar. It's like these things happen.
And so the fact that you, you guys have a relationship that
allows you to be that open with each other.
Yeah, yeah. Is incredible, you know, and it
leads me to a topic that I wasn't going to talk about with
you, but I suppose we can for a couple minutes.
(32:02):
Yeah. I talk about it with so many
guests, the idea of chemistry within a group environment, and
how important I feel it is. Like I mean I'm almost at
episode 100. I know by now my listeners must
just think this dude always talks about the same shit I'm
not leaning to, but chemistry isso important.
(32:25):
And if you have good chemistry, yeah, it shows.
I mean, you can just tell there's a mutual respect,
there's a friendship, there's a family dynamic.
And yeah. Wow.
That's how the band works. That's how the band work.
The family thing, having a laugh, you know?
And we have, we are. We're a happy band.
(32:46):
We love the gig, we love the music.
Do you know what I mean? We love the gig, we love the
music, we love the vibe. It works.
We love to work together, you know, So you know, if we have,
if we even when we're doing our own projects, we call each other
up. Do you know what I mean?
You know, just the other day I just said I've got his track I'm
(33:07):
working on. And I said to Jay, I said, Jay,
oh, I need your help with this. Can you help me with this?
You know what I mean? You know, and a lot of the time,
you know, he doesn't really get involved because he's got his
head into the whole generic, I think you know what I mean, You
know, so I get that completely. But I have asked him before and
he has come up with some really good ideas that I wouldn't even
(33:30):
have thought of. I'm like, you know what?
That's a really good idea and it's worked.
Amazing. You know, so, and the same with
other guys, you know, I can't, Iget in contact with Matt.
I'd say Matt Oh, oh mate, you know, because I'm a really
rubbish keyboard player. I could put down the basics and
then I'd say, oh, Matt, can you just, can you play this for me?
(33:52):
And he plays it and he just, he makes it sound like $1,000,000.
And I'm like, I made it sound like 50 pence.
He makes it. That's awesome.
And he just goes and I'm like, Oh my God, that's amazing, you
(34:16):
know? Yeah, that's cool.
Derek. Talk to me about touring.
Jamiroquai is no stranger to touring.
In fact, and I need to fact to check this, but I think even in
regards to Woodstock 99, to my knowledge there were only two
British bands on that bill. Now I don't know if that's 100%
true, but that's the way it appeared.
(34:37):
Bush, Jamiroquai, everybody elsewas American, which is
incredible. Yeah, yeah.
And Bush, the rock band are mostprobably on there because
they're, even though they're English, they're American based.
American based? Exactly.
Because they're massive over there.
And we were most probably, yeah,we most probably were the only
(35:00):
UK from the UK on that stage, yeah.
So obviously, Turing, some guys do well on the road, some guys
don't. I'm sure you've seen some things
that you could probably talk about and things you probably
couldn't talk about. But let's talk about you
personally. What do you do to stay sane
(35:23):
while on the road? OK, so way back in the day, I, I
was a drinker basically, you know, I'm, you know, I'm very
open about it. I was a massive drinker.
And the only way I'd stay sane on the road would be to have a
drink after the gig. Do you know what I mean?
You know, and I'd go out to clubs and all that kind of
(35:46):
stuff, come back at like 6:00 inthe morning, but then I would
get up and then go to the gym, keep fit.
Do you know what I mean? All this kind of stuff and
that's what, and that was my lifestyle for a long time, a
very long time. But I've stopped drinking now.
(36:10):
And I'll be honest, since I've stopped drinking, I just
everything is just, it's the opposite.
It's the opposite now. I'd just like, I'd stay in my
room, I'd go out for walks, watch a bit of TV, hang out with
the guys, all this kind of stuff.
Practice a lot more as well, practice a lot more, get my pad
(36:32):
out, start practising, listen tothe set more, see where I can,
you know, all this kind of stuff, all this kind of stuff
keeps me sane. Do you know what I mean?
You know, so I'm always in, dareI say, work mode to going to the
gym, going out for walks. It's all, it's all kind of work
mode, keeping my mind at peace before a gig, you know, staying
(36:56):
in a calm environment, dare I say?
Like that's that's where I like to be in a very calm
environment. And this helps me to play a lot
better and to think a lot betterwhen I'm doing the gigs as well.
You know, the past. I mean, I haven't had a drink
there for eight years. Good.
(37:18):
For you, man. And, and now I've never enjoyed
my job so much than these past eight years, to be honest.
You know, I'm playing a lot better.
I'm, you know, I'm recording a lot better and enjoying
recording. I used to hate recording at one
point, but now I really enjoy recording.
(37:40):
I love tuning drums and doing all that kind of stuff.
You know what I mean? You know, because for me it's
the challenge. And that challenge keeps me
insane, you know? So whilst I'm on the road, I'm
just always thinking, what can Ido at this bit?
What can I do at that bit? What can it?
What are you listening to? Do you listen to any music while
(38:00):
you're on the road? I listen to, you know, I'm a
disco head, so I'm like listening to disco stuff all the
time. Funk stuff.
I listen to a lot of kind of like Dexter Wants All.
I listen to the Blackbirds, kindof like old funky disco disco
funk stuff was what I listened to.
(38:22):
That's what I listened to a lot of.
Anything that's got groove and drums, I'm listening to it.
That's absolutely what about potential?
I like to call them like secretsor tips on travelling with gear.
And I know it's again, possibly not an easy question to answer
(38:44):
because when a band gets to a certain level, there's crew guys
who take care of gear, etcetera,etcetera, etcetera.
So I don't expect you to just belike, well, my crew guy takes
care of it because that possiblyis the thing.
But if you're ever in positions where like maybe you're going on
a like a A1 off fly date and you've just got to take some
symbols and a snare drum or something.
(39:04):
That's a lot. What do you do to like, make
this protected while you travel,Especially with airlines
becoming so nitpicky with what you can travel with now?
OK, so I'll be honest with you. I tried to travel with as little
as possible for that same reason, right?
(39:27):
Because I don't trust any airline with my gear.
Yeah, unless I can take it on the plane myself, which is
highly unlikely or what I do is I told the the the producer or
the artist I want to hire in XYZ.
So I just send them a list of what I need and they and they
get it. Sometimes they can get it,
(39:48):
sometimes they can't. But I make do with what I'm
handed. You know what I mean?
You know, as long as the heads are new or.
Reasonable, you know, I can makeit work.
I can make it work. I just did AI, just did AI, just
did a three day recording session with a label doing a lot
(40:11):
of kind of disco tracks and stuff.
And the drums. The drums are OK, they're OK,
you know. But what I do is tune the way
that I like and I've had a lot of tracks to record within the
three days. So I try to be as efficient as
possible and they didn't have the high hats that I wanted and
(40:34):
I didn't want to travel with my high hats because the last thing
I want is for my precious high hats, which I love, you know, to
be lost because I will be very annoyed.
So I don't bring them. I just say I need this size
hats. Doesn't matter what it is, just
get me the high hats because back in the day, drums are just
(40:57):
drums. They just jumped on and just
played them. Look at the drums.
They just jumped in and just played them.
You know, you asked producers from way back gambling half
Dexter Watts, all those kind of guys.
I'd go Dexter, what kind of whatkind of drums were you using on
with MFSB on The Mysteries of the World?
He just, he just said to me, I don't know man, they're just
(41:18):
drums. Great line.
You're great line it's. A great line.
So I'm just like a drum. A drum's a drum, yeah.
It makes a sound. It's just what you do with it to
make it to get the sound that you want.
Exactly. And so that's, that's been my
attitude all the time. I don't really I I just carry as
(41:40):
little as possible drumsticks, some drum tuners, some maybe
rootsy QO rings just for quickness throw them on, makes
the drum sounds good or a big fat snare thing.
Yeah gets the sound that I want.Great.
You know some moon gel drum gauge as well.
(42:05):
Also good quick tuning as well. But I can also do it, you know,
manually. So for me it's not an issue.
Make sure I've got enough sticks, you know and I just,
everything just fits into one case.
I also carried a little and I rig.
I became a little, I rig and I bring a little 6 channel Yamaha
(42:29):
mix up. Easy, easy.
Yeah, yeah, I try not to carry no hardware, no pedals or what
pedal have you got? All right, that'll do.
And then I just set it up. You know, I'll try and be as
efficient as I can because you could be landed with any with
any situation. So you got to be prepared for
the worst. You might end up getting the
(42:50):
best basically. I love it, man.
Derek, at this point in your career, yeah.
What do you think has been the hardest part about being a
lifelong career musician? I suppose trying to think how to
move forward, you know, how do you expand on being a drummer?
(43:16):
Because people just see you as adrummer.
You just play the drums and that's it, right?
How do you expand and being a drummer?
That's most probably been one ofmy hardest challenges, and for
me it's being able to write and produce as a drummer.
(43:39):
Do you know what I mean? You know, to write tracks, to
produce tracks, to remix tracks,you know, to, to get into the
musical side, to get into the business side of it.
You know, that's most probably 1been the hardest part for me.
(44:00):
The drumming side is great because I've been doing it all
my life. It's the, it's the bits that
connect to it that you've got tolearn.
Do you know what I mean? You know, I think that's been
the hardest part, just trying tothink how do I move forward?
OK. So is that what led you to
eventually doing the production and the DJ ING and stuff like
(44:21):
that? Now that you are doing
production and DJ ING and possibly looking at music from a
different angle versus just a drummer angle, has it affected
the way you look at drums? Yeah, completely.
That's crazy. Yeah, big time.
Yeah. Yeah.
Because the the drums and instrument like a guitar or
(44:42):
whatever, but I look at it as like a as a melodic instrument,
even though it's not officially it's not, but you know, but I
look at it as a melodic instrument.
So I just think that's my main instrument.
How can I make everything work? How can I write a track where
everything works with the groovethat I put down?
(45:03):
Basically, you know, the way I record, the way the drum sound,
you know, because I'm quite, I'mnot, I'm picky, but I'm not
picky, you know, it's taken me years to get the sound that I
want. And people are always asking me
about the sound and stuff. Just like, well, a drum's a
(45:25):
drum, you know, see. And I just tune it in a certain
way, you know, I, I think the way I look at things now is I
just try to think musical. So everything that I do, it's
musical. I just try and think musical
about it. You know what I mean?
(45:46):
Baseline musical, drums musical where the kick drum is placed
without being too clinical. I mean, disco music.
It's not, it's, it's not, it's, it's not hard to play, but it's
also not easy to play. Do you see what I mean?
You know, because it is 4 to thefloor basically, you know, with
(46:06):
a couple of, you know, kick drums that have been that I
would say slightly misplaced, you know, put in different
places, you know, but it's it's how you feel that and how you
play that. Do you know what I mean?
So that's the musical side of it.
And then trying to make everything else work with that.
I want to make sure that moving forward, I understand what is
(46:31):
going on. You know what I mean?
You know, to make the track itself work.
You know, I've just done a remixfor this.
But it's right. I've just done a remix for a
band called The Wild Violets, upand coming UK band.
Amazing. They're really, really good and
I've just done a remix for them and I've put live drums on this
(46:52):
remix. One of the hardest things to do
actually. But if you want to get the in my
head, I have a vision. If you want to get that, that if
you want to make that vision come to life, you can.
You can't get it from loops and stuff like that.
You have to play. You have to play it.
You know what I mean? So I just get people to to play.
(47:16):
But again, going back to your previous question, what's the
hardest part? I actually did all the music for
it as well, but I put live drumson it as well and it's
completely turned the track around and without compromising
the integrity of the track. That's the other, you know what
I mean? How do you make this sound
(47:37):
pretty good with without destroying the song?
That's my thing because I'm I'm thinking as an artist, you know,
the last thing an artist or a band wants to hear, it's their
track cut to pieces and then andthen just turned it to something
that just doesn't work. But if they hear the song is
(47:57):
still there and they hear a different group behind it and it
all makes sense, they go amazing, great.
Because you haven't. The integrity of the track is
still there. You know the the song is still
there. You're still using elements of
the original song, but you've changed the baseline or you
changed the drums a bit, you've added some effects and stuff
(48:19):
like that. It just completely changes it
up. But the song is still there, the
chorus is still there. And then you just added some
some breakdowns and stuff, Yeah.And that's it, you know?
So again, moving forward, as it's a drummer, I want to be an
(48:42):
artist first and foremost. Harvey Mason's done it.
Billy Cobham's done it. Phil Collins has done it.
It's there's another drummer I know, Stokely, from a band
called Mint Condition. He's done it, Chris.
Daddy Dave's done it. Art Blakey's done it.
(49:03):
Oh, Blakey. All that, all that.
LB Jones. All Dave Grohl.
Dave, they're all artists. Yeah, they're drummers, but
they're artists. Yeah.
And Prince. Prince, you know he's.
He's in the land of his own. Different world, you know what I
mean? But it once said drums are the
(49:26):
the first instrument of a musician and then they then
become an artist in their own right.
So that's why I have to rate people like Billy Cobham and
Harvey Mason and all those guys.Do you know what I mean?
Then they they're my 2 favourites.
You know, oh, they're incredible.
And they've just basically turned that whole thing, they've
(49:50):
turned being a drummer into being not just a musician, but
being an artist. You've.
Got your own album and you've got 10 tracks that people go out
and buy. Then people are sampling those
tracks. You go, Oh my gosh, they're
sampling by track and the track is a massive hit.
Yeah, just go. That's an artist.
(50:12):
Yeah. Phil Collins, you know he's.
Me and I love Phil. Do a whole different, whole
different thing. But then he sings and he writes,
you know, these guys, they're writing, you know, And that's
what I want to do. That's what I strive to do, to
write to, to do some really cooltracks, you know what I mean?
You know, And they use great musicians, but they're artists
(50:36):
first and foremost. They go from being a musician to
being an artist. Yeah, I want to jump on the
floor to the floor bass drum disco beat that you briefly
alluded to because, you know, you make it sound easy.
And I suppose to drummers who on, you know, locked in on that
type of field, they probably think, well, that's so easy.
(50:59):
However, things something that, yeah, something that that I've
been asking percussionists and drummers more about more and
more lately is feel. And you called it musicality.
So whether you want to call it feel musicality, a lot of guys
call it pockets, you know, whatever you want to call it.
(51:22):
I love the, I love the stank face memes, you see?
You know, like that's how, you know, the drummers really got
that pocket, right? There's a stank face.
But what do you think is a way for people to try and develop
their own internal pocket, theirown feel, their own musicality,
(51:45):
whatever you want to call it, that thing that makes other
musicians go, Oh my God, did yousee Derek play that four on the
floor thing? What is that?
How would you describe it? Because because in my opinion,
it's almost undescribable because you talk to so many
different people and they've allgot different opinions on it.
Oh, it's this. It's that.
(52:05):
It's too many different things to be one thing generally.
It's feels. It's feel.
It's, it depends on the track aswell.
You know, that's got a lot to dowith it, but a lot of it is to
do with feel, just how you. Yeah, it can be about placement.
(52:29):
But you know what? When you're doing something like
disco or dance music, it's just a straightforward to the floor
and you and it's about the drive, it's about consistency as
well. If you listen to brass
(52:52):
construction, Shalimar Sylvesteris classic case of disco, right?
Do you know what I mean? If you listen to those tracks,
it depends on the tempo as well.Those tracks, it was about feel
and energy. What gets the pocket is the feel
(53:16):
and the energy. Doesn't matter what tempo it's
at, it's the feel and energy. Because I could do one, take it,
same beat, it could sound like this, I could do another take
and it could sound completely different.
Same drum, same drum rhythm. It could sound completely
different. There's something about it I
(53:37):
don't know. That bit I can't explain.
All I know is is that I've been doing it for a long time and I
know take 1 is different to takefour and they might use take 4
or they might use take two or three.
Do you know what I mean? You know, it's which one has the
(53:58):
energy and the feel and for me what gets of the people going.
But what you want to make sure is make sure it's consistent.
So every time you play it, people are still getting that
same vibe. It's not played once.
Oh, that sounded great. Play it again.
Not quite right there. What you wanted sounds great
(54:19):
when you hear it 50 times. Do you know what I mean?
You know you want it to. So it's about feel, it's about
energy, whether it's laid back, whether it's pushed, whether
it's when you, when you play thekick drum or do something on the
high hats or something, you do aroll, do a drum feel it needs to
(54:42):
be the right drum feel. You see what I mean?
You know, when I do, if I'm playing fall to the floor, do
I'm doing that and I'll go I'm doing that for a reason at that
point, because something on the vocal might be doing that.
(55:05):
Do you know what I mean? You know, so you know, if I do
like, so when I, when I play like like let's say chorus of
Cosmic girl, when I yeah, CosmicGirl, dude, I'm doing the, the,
the, the, the, the, the kick drum doing that.
She is just the do do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do from
(55:30):
under. Do you see what I mean?
Yeah, do, do, do, do from under the Galaxy.
So they they it's not intentional.
It's just the way it's just turned out.
So that's what I mean about energy, drive, feel.
It's about doing things which are purely coincidental, but it
works. But but it works.
(55:53):
And you know it when you play itback and you hear it back 10
times, you go, yeah, man, that'sa great drum tank.
But that groove is amazing. Do you know what I mean?
You know that you that's what brings it all on.
You know, you listen to you listen to ABBA, You know ABBA.
I'm sorry, I'm naming all these bands but these.
People. Oh no, they're great.
(56:15):
Massive hits, you know what I mean?
You know, you listen to the drumtakes on that, you go, crikey,
that actually sounds really good.
Do you know what I mean? You know, people might not like
the lyrics. You listen to the music, use the
musicality of it, you go, it actually works, you know?
(56:35):
And the same with rock music as well, you know, same thing.
Listen to the grooves. The grooves are working because
when you play, he's played it once.
You might have, you might have recorded it 10 times, but
there's one take that works every time.
And that's the take. Yeah.
No, you've got, I mean, you callit the the stank face.
I mean, I don't know anything about the stank face.
(56:56):
All I want to know is people aretapping their feet.
I've got a smile on their face and they're dancing.
That's that's my thing. I'm done.
I know I'm doing my job. Great.
Answer If you could change one thing in the current music
industry for the positive, what do you think you would change?
(57:19):
AI. Why?
Because it's making people lazy.I couldn't agree more man.
It's. Making people lazy.
Making people lazy? Oh, this is the track I've done.
No, you've AI D that it's rubbish.
You know the the one that's blowing up at the moment.
(57:40):
Suno, I'm sure you got to have it.
SUNOI. I'm getting DMS weekly from
musicians. Hey, what do you think of this
song I wrote? Right.
And I'm trying to be nice. I really am like each to their
(58:00):
own. If you're using it and you think
that that's what you need, I guess, I guess that's cool.
But something a lot of people don't know about Suno, because a
lot of people don't read terms and conditions, is if you are
using the free version of Suno and not the premier paid
(58:21):
version, any idea that you put into the prompt now is the
intellectual property. And I don't want to be the
bearer of bad news for people who didn't know that and are
listening to the show. But at risk of sounding a bit
sadistic, I'm not totally against that because these
(58:42):
people who are suddenly all songwriters who've never touched
a musical instrument or listen, I get it.
Creativity works in so many different ways, right?
So I'm not trying to put my noseup at that.
But there's some people, especially on my like, timeline
at the moment, man, it's like, I've seen these guys like Devil
(59:03):
and, and you go like that, they they saying that they wrote this
song and you go like, this guy sounds like an incredible
singer, like, wow, how did he learn to sing like that?
And you go like, wait, this guy's never sang a note in his
life, you know? So I'm interested to see where
it goes. It's a little scary.
Well, it'll keep on developing because you know if you prompt
(59:23):
something enough times, it'll keep on learning itself.
Do you know what I mean? A classic case of it, and again,
I don't would be the bear of badnews.
Look at the watch the film Terminator, right?
And basically Terminator is Suno, the musical Terminator.
You know what I mean? You know, because you're
prompting it all the time. So it's self aware.
(59:46):
It's just doing its own thing, you know.
And at the back end of it, when does it stop?
Yeah, you know what I mean? You know, I mean, record
companies are already odd labels.
Not record companies, but labelsthey're already developing.
IAI generated characters doing these songs and then just
(01:00:10):
throwing them out there. Do you know what I mean?
You know, Spotify is well known for it, you know, and somebody
told me about a guy who basically has basically a
massive room full of computers generating these tracks.
And then they just keep on playing these tracks constantly,
(01:00:31):
constantly keep playing these tracks, playing these tracks,
playing these tracks. And he's just basically just
generating all this money. Yeah.
For himself. It's so bizarre because part of
me goes, part of me goes, smart dude, you know, good for him.
And then and then another part. From a business point of view.
(01:00:53):
The the moral side of me goes, well, that's just wrong, man.
Think about all the musicians who you know, especially when
you think about streaming and the the way it pays artists and
you go like think about how manyartists have put their blood,
sweat and tears and died to makethe music that they've let alone
the years it's taken. And they, they're not earning a
(01:01:17):
scene because this guy just happens to have maybe a less
moral outlook and was like, fuckthis, I'm going to go get the
money, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's what it is. It's just about all about the
money, you know, because it's one of the, if you're doing
well, if you're doing really well, you know, and then you,
(01:01:38):
you can make a lot of money, youknow, you can make a lot of
money. You know, unfortunately now
things like Spotify, but I, I mean, I don't know what iTunes
pays, but if it pays at all, I don't know all those, they're
just advertising platforms. Don't expect to make any money.
(01:01:59):
You're not going to make a cent unless you're Taylor Swift or
something. But even then, yeah, Taylor
makes a tonne of cash. She's made more money going live
and that's where it's at live gigging.
I've set my advice all musicians, gig, gig, gig, gig,
gig, gig as much as you can. It's hard work, but gigging
(01:02:25):
pays, man. Because music, live music, will
never lose its appeal. Doesn't matter where you are,
doesn't matter where you are, doesn't matter what function
you're having. If you've got a live band,
you're doing all right. If you get 100 pounds, £50 or 5
million, 50 million, a 100 million, it doesn't matter.
(01:02:46):
The thing is, live music will never go down, down the down the
drain. It will never go down the drain.
People want to see live music. People want to see live
musicians, period, Period. Yeah.
You know. Well, that leads me to my last
question. Derek, you just mentioned some
(01:03:08):
really good advice playing live,so I don't want to put you on
the spot here. But what in your opinion has
been either the best piece of advice you've ever received in
regards to your own musical career?
Or if you can't think of something along those lines,
what do you think could serve asgreat advice to an up and coming
(01:03:32):
musician who's tried to forge their own career?
Number one, be in control of your own career.
That's number one, first and foremost from a musical and
business approach. And always strive to be a better
you. Always strive to be a better
(01:03:54):
you. I think that's always a good
thing, you know, because nobody is better than you than you.
Does that make sense? You know what I mean?
You know, because today you could be here, but actually
(01:04:17):
tomorrow you could be there. And then once you get to that,
then you can be there. Don't aim too high, just go
slowly. Beautiful, man.
Listen, I can't thank you enoughfor your time.
Thanks for the years. Oh, yeah, man.
Listen, we we could talk for another hour.
(01:04:38):
I've skipped through loads of this, but it's like it's been so
nice, just flowing. It's like it's flowed really
nicely. You got a great energy.
You too, by the way. Thank you so much man.
Thank you really. Enjoyed it.
Keep on rocking, keep on making good music.
I should say keep on grooving because you're a groove machine.
(01:05:00):
But no seriously man, best of luck with Jamiroquai, best of
luck with all the DJ stuff for your own artist stuff.
And I'll, I'll talk to you soon man.
Thanks for everything. Thank you.
Thanks for having me and keep ondoing those podcasts.
They're great. Thank you, Derek.
OK, there we have it, everybody.The one and only Derek McKenzie.
(01:05:23):
As mentioned at the top of the show, I'd like to encourage you
to please leave us a rating or review.
Don't forget to check out all things Derek McKenzie related at
his link in our show notes. Again, I can't encourage you
enough to go check out Jamiroquai and some of the other
work that Derek has done. For more information on myself,
Travis Mark, please do visit musicians-mentor.com.
(01:05:46):
If I can help you with your bandor your artist type career, just
drop me Adm. I'm always happy to help.
A little side note, if you are still listening to this closing
statement, I do apologise for some of the sniffing in this
audio. Derek was suffering from hay
fever and I was getting over a cold.
But we still wanted. To do the interview and I'm so
glad we did. I'll see you on the next one.
(01:06:08):
Keep pushing, be diligent, have some fun.
There's lots of beauty in the world.
Peace.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome tothe Musicians Mentor Podcast.
I'm your host Travis Mark and with me on episode 98, I have
none other than British drumminglegend Derek McKenzie.
Many of you may know of Derek from his over 3 decade long
(00:23):
career with acid funk group Jamiroquai, but in addition to
that he has also performed and collaborated musically with
award-winning international musicians and DJs like Purple
Disco Machine, Fernanda Rosa, Richard Earnshaw and Matt
Johnson. Derrick also teaches and
producers and DJs. In fact on the international DJ
(00:45):
circuit, he's currently the onlyDJ slash drummer slash producer
touring in that world. That in itself is pretty
incredible. If you've never checked out
Jamiroquai or Derricks plane, I strongly encourage you to.
There's an instant toe tapping, head nodding, shoulder bopping
kind of thing that happens when you hear the groove that this
(01:08):
man possesses. So as usual, I want to publicly
thank Derek for his time. I want to thank each and
everyone of you for your time. If you are enjoying these
podcasts, whether they're the audio version or the video
version, please do me a favor. Follow us on socials, follow us
on YouTube. Leave us a rating or review on
your preferred streaming service.
Don't forget to check out our affiliation with the folks over
(01:31):
at Soundbrenner. That code recently changed.
It's in our show notes, but you'll get 20% off if you are
interested in trying any of their products.
For now, I want to jump straightinto this interview.
Ladies and gentlemen, please help me welcome the one and only
Derek McKenzie. The one and only Mr. Derek
(01:54):
McKenzie. UK based drummer, DJ, musician.
Just awesome dude. I can't thank you enough for
joining me on the Musicians Mentor Podcast.
Thank you for having me, man, Thank you.
Anytime we are going to start this interview the same way that
I start all of these interviews.And it's always a little strange
(02:14):
because even though I'm going torecord an introduction post our
chat, we are beef you up. And I talk about the fact that
you've been with Jamiroquai for so long, your DJ career, the
fact that you've been involved with teaching, you've done stuff
with John Newman and the lovebirds and Matt Johnson and,
and, and, and what I typically do is I ask my guests to give us
(02:37):
an introduction from your point of view.
Tell the listeners who Derek McKenzie is so that if nothing
else, they get an idea of your mindset during today's
conversation. So if you wouldn't mind, Derek,
tell the listeners who Derek McKenzie is.
Well, I'm a drummer drum with Jamiroquai.
(02:58):
I've been with them for 32 years.
I've got hay fever, got hay fever.
I like to produce and write. I'm a DJ as well.
I'm a label owner as well. So I'm just trying to do so many
(03:19):
things all at once. I love music.
I love playing drums first and foremost.
And that's the. That's kind of me in about 15
seconds, really. Yeah.
Beautiful. Let's paint a bit of a picture
as to your upbringing and how music became such an important
(03:41):
part of your life. And if it wasn't drumming
specifically from the start, talk to me about how the
drumming bug bit you once music became a part of your life.
To be honest with you, I, I mean, I've been into drums from
where when I was a kid basicallybecause my mum and dad played
(04:03):
music all the time in the, in the house, especially on a
weekend of working the week. But on the weekend they would
just play music from the morninguntil late at night, you know,
And it would be the same with on, you know, Saturday and
Sunday it would be the same thing.
(04:25):
We'd have people come round, they'd come round, hang out,
have some dinner, have a few drinks, all that kind of stuff.
Because my dad was a great host and I'd just be listening to
music all, all the time, you know.
But I was always into the, the reggae style that which is what
my mum and dad bought me up on the whole reggae style thing.
(04:46):
And as that went on event, you know, I just kind of picked up a
pair of coat hangers and startedhitting the floor with it.
And that was most probably whereI got the bug.
But only, you know, of course, Iwas a kid.
Do you know what I mean? You know, So that's that's what
I've got the bug from. But it really hit me when, you
(05:07):
know, much further on when I wasabout maybe 10 or 11 and I
joined semi joined a band with my mates on my, on my ride
really. I just got into kind of got into
the whole drumming thing from there really.
You know, I took it seriously when I was about 3014.
(05:32):
That's when I took, started to take it seriously.
Yeah. And then really getting into it
from then. Can you define that a little
bit, taking it seriously? What do you mean by that?
You started taking lessons. No, because I've never had
lessons. I'm completely self-taught.
So what I used to do is listen to music and just play along to
(05:53):
music. I'd watch videos of how other
drummers played and then kind ofimitate the way that they
played. Do you know what I mean?
You know, And it was one of my sister's old boyfriend who he
was an organ player. He said, you know what, you can
play. You've got rhythm.
(06:14):
You know, you've got you could play.
Have you ever played drums before?
And I went, Nah, never. So he'd said, come along to one
of the rehearsals. I'm like, OK, so I did went
along to one of the rehearsals and, you know, saw this massive
drum kit and like, you know, 8 inch to like, you know, 16 inch
Toms all the way around, snare drum symbols everywhere.
(06:37):
And they were played this music playing like reggae music and
stuff. And the drummer said, oh, do you
want to have a go on the drums? I was like, yeah, go on then.
Yeah, I'll have a go. I've never played before.
So I've gotten the drums and butit was the wrong way round
because he's right-handed. So he played this way, you know,
and he straight away he said he goes, are you left-handed?
(07:00):
So I went, Oh yeah, yeah, I'm left-handed.
So we said, oh, swap it round. So we swapped it round.
And then immediately I felt comfortable because that was the
way that I was playing at home. But I remember I did have a drum
kit at home at all, you know, didn't have a drum kit at all.
And then just started playing and the guys were playing and
stuff and, and kind of good. That's when the bug really hit
(07:24):
me. From that point there, when I
had my, when I played on that kit from there, what was it a
Pearl or a premier or something like that, you know?
Awesome. Massive kit.
I was only tiny. Just massive kit, you know?
Yeah. Very kind of him to let you
switch. You know, some drummers get so
weird with this stuff. You know, like don't touch my
(07:45):
drums. It was like, I mean, it's only
the snare and the high hat. It was enough for me to get into
it. And I just thought, Oh yeah,
really loving this. And I kind of just just got it
from there really. And then just started just
practising more and then bits and more musicians and and then
a good friend of the band who, if I remember rightly, was a he
(08:08):
wasn't a drummer to start, but Ithink he was a guitarist.
And then he turned to drums and said you do rudiments.
So I said no, because I didn't know what rudiments were because
I would just be listening to rhythms and just playing.
And he said, Oh yeah, play, get rudiments is the best way, you
know, to get exercising and playing and building up and
(08:28):
stuff like that. And so I said, all right, cool.
So I then got a book. I'm going to show you the book
because. Yeah, please do.
It's a book that I absolutely swear by and even to this day
I've been. I've got a couple of other other
books as well. Stick control.
Amazing book. That's the book.
(08:49):
So I've been literally been, I started that book basically.
And admittedly, it's actually quite a difficult book.
As simple as it sounds, it's actually quite a difficult book.
But he said learn those exercises and you'll be able to
develop, develop more. And I've just basically just
(09:11):
been, and I started on that, bought my first pair of
drumsticks and they just startedpracticing.
Do you know what I mean? You know, amazing practising on
telephone books. Which is great because again, if
you think about Rebound as a drummer, yeah, the fact that you
are hitting a book like a telephone book, especially they
used to be big thick books, right?
(09:32):
It's not, it's not like you're just getting this natural
rebound. You almost force your hands and
your fingers and your wrists andto learn how to do some of these
motions, you know, I think that's great.
Well, look, before I go to my next question, since you brought
up the stick control book, what is your general approach there?
So let's let's just take an exercise.
You take exercise number six outof whatever page it is.
(09:55):
What do you typically do? Do you just play it on the snare
drum? Do you try and execute it around
the drums? What's your approach?
Always on a drum. Pad.
Oh, it's cool. Always, always on a drum pad,
starting with my weak hand. Always starting with my weak
hand because I'm left-handed so I'm not.
So what I do is train the brain to, I think, OK, I'm going to
(10:20):
start with the weekend. So it makes it kind of awkward
for me, do you know what I mean?So then by the time my brain
says, Oh yeah, you're used to doing this, you then switch to
the left hand, which is your normal hand, and it becomes
quite easy to play. It kind of makes you somewhat,
I'm going to say not, you know, like Simon Phillips
ambidextrous. Do you know what I mean?
(10:42):
You know, but I could say I'm kind of semi semi ambidextrous
and projectors. I'm like semi semi because I do
a lot of my exercises, you know,starting with the starting with
my weak hand, you know, and I'm always a fan of, I'm a massive
fan of, of exercises and, and stuff, you know, and also at the
(11:05):
minute I'm looking at Aneka Niles.
Oh yeah, she's great. Yeah, so she's, she has her book
of which I'm looking at as well,and that's got some amazing
stuff in it, great exercises, highly recommend it.
Just like the stick control book.
But these you could take, you could take all this around the
kit, as any drummer would tell you, you know what I mean?
(11:27):
And the same with Anakinals's stuff.
You could just take it around the kit any way, any way you
like. And a lot of the drum see a lot
of these exercises, they'll start with the right hand
anyway. So for me, it's just normal just
to start with the right hand, tostart anything new, just start
with the right hand and then switch to your your strong hand
and then try and work it around the kit.
(11:49):
That's my approach anyway. Yeah, that's amazing, man.
And I've got to give you props on the fact that you've
essentially reached a pinnacle that a lot of drummers hope to
reach. You've been there.
You've been there for years and you can still tell that
enthusiasm when talking about what a lot of guys would regard
as geekery. You know, like we're talking
(12:10):
about drum books. I mean, when was Stick Control
published? Like 1927 or.
Some shit way. Back, you know, it's so old,
Like, I remember when I used to teach, I would show younger,
like students stick control. They would just look at that
picture. They'd be like, oh, that's so
old. They like, did this book will
change your life, you know? OK, well, Derek.
(12:31):
So you eventually land up joining Jamiroquai in around 94,
at least that's what my researchsaid.
So talk to me about how that opportunity came about.
And again, not to like dissect your whole life here, but but
was there an audition process? If there was, what did it
(12:53):
entail? Etcetera, etcetera.
So going back, so the band I waswith before Jamiroquai was a
band called Urban Species and they're, they are like a hip hop
band basically, essentially a hip hop band, rap band.
And that was signed to Not Talking Loud.
(13:18):
That was basically. So I did a few tours with them
and I was with them for about two years, maybe three years,
you know, and coming towards theend of the second or third year,
I, I wanted a change basically. But I really enjoyed the gig.
(13:38):
But I just wanted to change. I just wanted to be stretched a
bit, let's put it that way, you know, and coming from a kind of
disco funk fusiony kind of background, I just wanted to do
more of that basically. And then and I got AI went to a
(14:03):
friend's BBQ basically I went toa friend's barbecue and met my
friend's brother, a guy called Simon Law who's a good producer,
drummer, producer. And and I just just gave him my
number basically and said if youneed a drummer, blah blah, blah.
And he'd seen me drum before with a previous band called
(14:25):
Candyland, basically. And he said if you he goes,
yeah, no problem. If I need drums, I'll give you a
shout. We're all good.
Anyway, as it goes, like literally maybe a few days
later, if not a week maximum, the phone rings and it's EMI
(14:46):
Publishing going, oh, we got your number from Simon Law.
And there's this band, Jamiroquai, looking for a new
drummer. I'm like, OK, cool.
And I didn't know who Jamiroquaiwas at the time, so they had
already had the they had the success of the first album.
I'd heard the tracks, but I didn't know who it was.
(15:07):
But in my head thought, oh, that's actually quite cool.
I quite like that. So he says they're looking for a
new drummer. He felt to have an audition.
Yeah, OK, fine. All right, yeah, I'll try my
luck. So I went down to the audition
at a studio. So had a rehearsal with urban
species the day of the audition of which I couldn't get out of.
(15:31):
So I went along to the audition but said to them, we need to
leave early because I've got an appointment.
So I left the I left the the rehearsals, went across from
North London to West London to this to this rehearsal space and
met the guys and met like Toby, rest in peace, bless him.
(15:56):
Stuart Wallace was a guitarist there.
I don't think the guitarist was there at the time.
Maybe was Gavin was it was theremanager Kevin and they were just
like, so this is me going in on the last day.
Sorry at the as the last drummeron the last day because they'd
(16:18):
had a whole audition the day before and I was the last
drummer on the last day basically went in, played the
tracks and funnily enough, I wasgiven the album maybe like a
three weeks before. I've just given the album by a
friend of mine who said oh you've got to listen to this
(16:39):
band, they're really good, checkthem out.
Anyway, you know, put it in, listen to it a couple of times
and then didn't really think much of it.
And then of course going across to the audition, I was listening
to the tracks, but you know, I don't know what I'm going to
play so I'm just listening to the tracks as I'm going across.
Anyway, back to the back into the rehearsal room, started
(17:00):
playing and played the track. It was great.
Had a really good time, played another track, had a really good
time and then now we've been playing for like an hour
basically. So I played quite a few track,
I've been playing for like an hour, the back of the room, the
manager standing up with anotherguy next to him and I didn't
(17:24):
think anything of it. So the guy comes, he comes
forward and he goes, Hi, my name's Jay.
I'm like all right mate, nice tomeet you.
Shook his head. And then I just sat down and
then just started because I was connecting with the musicians
and they were going, oh, yeah, OK, now we're going to do this.
(17:45):
So we started playing, and I think we played.
Not when you're going to learn. Too young to die.
OK All right. OK.
Started playing. And then this guy picks up the
phone that puts up the microphone and starts singing.
(18:06):
And of course, immediately I then recognised the voice.
I'm like, oh, so you're the guy who's singing on the tracks
anyway, played the tracks, had areally good time.
It went really well. And then Jay wanted to do a bit
more auditioning. Do you know what I mean?
You know, a bit more playing andstuff.
So we just started jamming out some tracks and stuff like that.
(18:31):
They said, all right, yeah, cool, nice one, you know, will
call you back for a second audition.
So I went back for a second audition, played again for
another. However long it was, it was
forever. Do you know what I mean?
You know, because it's me and another guy and I and I and I
played. He came in the morning, I came
in the afternoon, played again. And then we played and then just
(18:56):
started making up jams, doing some jamming stuff and just
playing some good grooves and stuff.
You know, it's kind of funky, not disc.
At the time it was more funky stuff, you know, kind of break
beat, funky drummer kinds of stuff.
All that did that. And one of the tracks that came
out of it was Just Another Story, which is on Return the
(19:19):
Space Cowboy, the opening track.Great album.
So yeah, thank you and the guys.And the next time I left.
Nice to meet you. I mean, because I still had my
job with the other band. So I was like, well, if I get
it, I get it. If I don't, I don't.
So I was neither here nor there,you know.
Anyway, the phone goes, it's Kevin about shopping.
(19:41):
All right, mate. Oh yeah, there, it's Kevin.
Anyway, just to let you know, you've got the job.
I was like, oh, fantastic, great.
You know what's you know, then he started talking to me about
some business stuff and all that.
I'm like, well, I don't know. You know, this is what I'm on
with this band. I'm new to the business.
(20:01):
I'm new to the business. Anyway, he says no problem, come
down. We're going to start recording
next week. Wow, that quick.
OK, all right. So then I then had to then go to
the other and say, look, guys, I'm really sorry, but I'm going
(20:22):
to have to leave because I'm nowgoing to be starting recording.
But then I've got another job, right?
And I didn't want to say who it was with or anything like that.
But anyway, they forced my hand.Do you know what I mean?
So I had to tell them and they were like, oh, OK, all right,
cool, you know. So then I had to find someone
else to take my place with the hip hop band that I was with.
(20:44):
So I found my, my friend who, who was great, who I always call
to replace me, a guy called Paulslowly, bless him, he's great,
you know, and he came over, he took over.
And then the following week I was in, I was in the studio with
Jamiroquai. And that was kind of the
process. That was the process of what I
went through. So two really long auditions and
(21:05):
connecting with the guys. That's amazing.
I mean, especially when you consider they've been doing
auditions for a whole day and you're the last guy.
I'm the last guy in the last. Usually they so sick of seeing
dudes by then that like, you know, even if you're blazing,
they like, I just want to get out of here.
So that's incredible. I want to stay on the audition
(21:28):
thing for just another minute ortwo and then we'll move on.
Yeah, cool. What advice would you OfferUp
and coming musicians on trying to keep their nerves in check
when in audition situations? Well, I would say, but, but I'm
(21:50):
only looking at this as an unknown, not as a known drummer,
but as an unknown drummer, right.
So I'm an unknown drummer and I've just gone in there,
listened to the tracks, did did some homework.
Do you know what I mean? You know, my thing is with is do
your homework, listen to the tracks.
I mean, they might send you sometracks to learn.
(22:10):
They go right. You got to learn these tracks,
do your homework, learn those tracks.
You know, I did have no homework.
It was it could I only had the one album.
So I just had to listen to the album on the way to the
audition. It just so happened.
Blind luck or with, with God's help, should I say God's help?
(22:31):
They played the tracks that I listened to, which is just
literally just a godsend for me.You know what I mean?
You know, So you know, do your homework, be calm, turn up on
time, don't be over over enthusiastic.
(22:54):
Just be cool. Just be relaxed, calm, cool, you
know, just just do your homework.
That's the thing that when you play, you play with you play
their track with confidence. Play their tracks with
confidence because especially ifthe tracks have got stop start
(23:16):
that all that kind of stuff. Do you know what I mean?
You know, the generic 1 stuff has stops in it.
Do you know what I mean? You know, so I was lucky I
because I listened to the tracks, I kind of got the
stopped. Do you know what I mean?
You know, and then if you are going to, if they are you to
play a track which is completelyunknown track even to them, just
(23:39):
play what's required. You don't need to be going all
out. Just make it sound good and
groovy. That's the thing.
You don't need to overplay. You don't need to do any fancy
stuff. That time will come.
Basically, you got to show that you could fit into the unit, you
know? So if you can fit into the unit
you're in, basically just have agood attitude.
(24:01):
Yeah, have a good attitude, you know.
Great advice. Let's talk about longevity.
And what I mean by this is within a group.
I mean, 32 years in a group, this is almost unheard of.
I mean, it does happen, obviously, but it seems to just
happen less and less. It's like you read, I go to
(24:21):
Wikipedia and read about bands. It's like, I'm such a geek with
this stuff. It's like, I find a band I love.
I just go research everything about them and I read and some
of these dudes will have like 400 past band members and you'd
be like whoa, you know, Or it's like like especially bands from
the 90s, a lot of bands from the90s, it's really down to one guy
(24:44):
and like 3 dudes who tour and noone really even cares who they
are. But like they get, they get a
salary and like listen cool man.Like I'm not even, I'm not even
judging it. But like, what are some things
that can possibly help musiciansmaintain longevity in a group,
(25:05):
which is a hard question to answer.
So. So I suppose maybe an easy way
to look at it would be, are theyattributes or characteristics on
a personal level away from play?Let's assume a guy, a cat's got
all these playing together. Are they things on a personal
level that maybe people could work on so that they gel better
(25:30):
with people and maybe land up ending up in a group for 32
years? Because that is mind blowing.
I think it's just being humble, I suppose got to be humble
(25:52):
outside if you're, if you're saying outside of music
personality goes a wrong a long way, right?
You can't be overbearing, can't be overbearing.
I could definitely say with all the members that are, that have,
that have been and are now in the band, nobody's overbearing,
(26:15):
nobody's overbearing. Everybody works together as a
family. You see, we all listen to the
same kinds of music. We're all, we're all bought up
on the same kind of music. That's one of the first things I
noticed with Jamiroquai. We've all been bought up on the
same kind of music. We work together outside of the
(26:37):
band as well as within the band unit as well, you see.
And that's also what keeps it all together as well, you know,
we ring each other. How are you doing?
Is everything all right? No, no, no.
All that kind of stuff. Sending messages.
Do you know what I mean? You know, is everything OK?
You know, and if there's a spot of bother, we support each
other, you know, if there's a spot of bother, personal or not,
(27:00):
whatever, you know, we support each other.
And also one of the main things for me is loyalty to one
another. Do you know what I mean?
You know? Oh yeah, I know what you mean.
It's a. Really important thing.
I'm not going to mince my words here Loyalty is a is a massive
(27:20):
thing. Loyalty is a massive thing
doesn't matter what's going on got to be loyal to each other.
You can't be mincing about. You know what I mean?
You just got if one thing I havenoticed with us is that if
something is not quite right, wecan openly say it to each other
and we take it as a constructivecriticism.
(27:43):
Because I know there's beats that I play.
One of the first people to get to get absolutely habit is
always the drummer. It's always the drummer.
It's always the drummer's fault.Do you know what I mean?
Dad don't sound right. Why?
Because the drummer's crap. Not really that is it really?
You know, so you need to work asa unit, being loyal to each
(28:05):
other, being able to take the constructive criticism in as
individuals, whether it be within the band or outside of
the band. You've got to be able to take
that criticism and use it to your advantage.
Some of it could be useless criticism, but a lot of the time
you're not actually thinking about what that person's
(28:27):
thinking. So it's, you know, they're
thinking out-of-the-box. I know for a fact Jay thinks
out-of-the-box. Fact I've worked with him for so
long and he'll come up with the beat that I wouldn't even have
thought of. So when he tells me a beat, try
this, I'll go, yeah. Do you know what?
I'm actually going to try that. And he pushes me.
Do you know what I mean? Toby would push me.
(28:48):
Rob pushes me, Matt pushes me, even on his projects, you know
what I mean? All the guys, they push me.
Paul on the base, you know, he pushes me as well, you know,
Stuart is pushing me. Do you know what I mean?
You know, and if they have any kind of criticism, no, don't try
that. Try this.
Don't play this role. Play that role.
Do you know what I mean? There's a reason why they're
saying it. I can't work it out until I play
(29:10):
it. And then when I go back and
listen to it, then I go, oh, OK,right.
That works, you know, Or if it doesn't quite work, I can then
adapt it to make it work. You see, this is just coming
from the drummer's point of view.
But of course, yeah, with the longevity of a band, it's
definitely loyalty and support. You know, that's what keeps it
(29:31):
all all going. And once you're all gelling as a
band, as a unit, it just keeps flowing.
You see, It just keeps flowing because you want it to be a
family at the back end of it. The people who work outside of
that family. From a business point of view,
(29:51):
keep the train flowing along By all means, do you know what I
mean? But don't dare I say, involve
yourself in the creative process.
You know what I mean? I don't mean that in a bad way.
No, I totally get it. You know what I'm saying is this
is where we are, this is how we work.
This is how it works. It works well.
(30:13):
Do you know what I mean? What we don't need is people
from a business point of view and Brit, you could put in in
their two pennies worth when they don't know nothing about
the creative process. You know, from drum sounds,
guitar sounds, keyboard sounds, even the writing.
Yeah, you know what I mean. You don't know about it.
Your, your thing is business. I'm not going to come and tell
(30:35):
you how to run your business. So don't come in here and and
say and judge me or tell me whatI'm worth.
I know what I'm worth to the band.
The band know what I'm worth. I know what the band are worth.
Do you know what I mean? And that's what makes it all
work. So you can't be.
And this is what keeps it all together.
We stick. We must stick together, you
(30:56):
know? You know we must stick together.
And yes, it will. Sometimes the criticism ruffles
a few feathers, but the end result is always good.
Yeah. The fact that you guys are in a
position that you can openly criticize each other, yeah.
(31:16):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure it's in a very
respectful way that that speaks.Completely.
Heaps because think about how many bands, whether they're
established or not. Yeah.
You know, something as simple asthe drummer tapping on a rim
during a sound check starts to irk the guitarist.
(31:40):
In three dates on a tour, the guitarist smashes him in the
face with the guitar. It's like these things happen.
And so the fact that you, you guys have a relationship that
allows you to be that open with each other.
Yeah, yeah. Is incredible, you know, and it
leads me to a topic that I wasn't going to talk about with
you, but I suppose we can for a couple minutes.
(32:02):
Yeah. I talk about it with so many
guests, the idea of chemistry within a group environment, and
how important I feel it is. Like I mean I'm almost at
episode 100. I know by now my listeners must
just think this dude always talks about the same shit I'm
not leaning to, but chemistry isso important.
(32:25):
And if you have good chemistry, yeah, it shows.
I mean, you can just tell there's a mutual respect,
there's a friendship, there's a family dynamic.
And yeah. Wow.
That's how the band works. That's how the band work.
The family thing, having a laugh, you know?
And we have, we are. We're a happy band.
(32:46):
We love the gig, we love the music.
Do you know what I mean? We love the gig, we love the
music, we love the vibe. It works.
We love to work together, you know, So you know, if we have,
if we even when we're doing our own projects, we call each other
up. Do you know what I mean?
You know, just the other day I just said I've got his track I'm
(33:07):
working on. And I said to Jay, I said, Jay,
oh, I need your help with this. Can you help me with this?
You know what I mean? You know, and a lot of the time,
you know, he doesn't really get involved because he's got his
head into the whole generic, I think you know what I mean, You
know, so I get that completely. But I have asked him before and
he has come up with some really good ideas that I wouldn't even
(33:30):
have thought of. I'm like, you know what?
That's a really good idea and it's worked.
Amazing. You know, so, and the same with
other guys, you know, I can't, Iget in contact with Matt.
I'd say Matt Oh, oh mate, you know, because I'm a really
rubbish keyboard player. I could put down the basics and
then I'd say, oh, Matt, can you just, can you play this for me?
(33:52):
And he plays it and he just, he makes it sound like $1,000,000.
And I'm like, I made it sound like 50 pence.
He makes it. That's awesome.
And he just goes and I'm like, Oh my God, that's amazing, you
(34:16):
know? Yeah, that's cool.
Derek. Talk to me about touring.
Jamiroquai is no stranger to touring.
In fact, and I need to fact to check this, but I think even in
regards to Woodstock 99, to my knowledge there were only two
British bands on that bill. Now I don't know if that's 100%
true, but that's the way it appeared.
(34:37):
Bush, Jamiroquai, everybody elsewas American, which is
incredible. Yeah, yeah.
And Bush, the rock band are mostprobably on there because
they're, even though they're English, they're American based.
American based? Exactly.
Because they're massive over there.
And we were most probably, yeah,we most probably were the only
(35:00):
UK from the UK on that stage, yeah.
So obviously, Turing, some guys do well on the road, some guys
don't. I'm sure you've seen some things
that you could probably talk about and things you probably
couldn't talk about. But let's talk about you
personally. What do you do to stay sane
(35:23):
while on the road? OK, so way back in the day, I, I
was a drinker basically, you know, I'm, you know, I'm very
open about it. I was a massive drinker.
And the only way I'd stay sane on the road would be to have a
drink after the gig. Do you know what I mean?
You know, and I'd go out to clubs and all that kind of
(35:46):
stuff, come back at like 6:00 inthe morning, but then I would
get up and then go to the gym, keep fit.
Do you know what I mean? All this kind of stuff and
that's what, and that was my lifestyle for a long time, a
very long time. But I've stopped drinking now.
(36:10):
And I'll be honest, since I've stopped drinking, I just
everything is just, it's the opposite.
It's the opposite now. I'd just like, I'd stay in my
room, I'd go out for walks, watch a bit of TV, hang out with
the guys, all this kind of stuff.
Practice a lot more as well, practice a lot more, get my pad
(36:32):
out, start practising, listen tothe set more, see where I can,
you know, all this kind of stuff, all this kind of stuff
keeps me sane. Do you know what I mean?
You know, so I'm always in, dareI say, work mode to going to the
gym, going out for walks. It's all, it's all kind of work
mode, keeping my mind at peace before a gig, you know, staying
(36:56):
in a calm environment, dare I say?
Like that's that's where I like to be in a very calm
environment. And this helps me to play a lot
better and to think a lot betterwhen I'm doing the gigs as well.
You know, the past. I mean, I haven't had a drink
there for eight years. Good.
(37:18):
For you, man. And, and now I've never enjoyed
my job so much than these past eight years, to be honest.
You know, I'm playing a lot better.
I'm, you know, I'm recording a lot better and enjoying
recording. I used to hate recording at one
point, but now I really enjoy recording.
(37:40):
I love tuning drums and doing all that kind of stuff.
You know what I mean? You know, because for me it's
the challenge. And that challenge keeps me
insane, you know? So whilst I'm on the road, I'm
just always thinking, what can Ido at this bit?
What can I do at that bit? What can it?
What are you listening to? Do you listen to any music while
(38:00):
you're on the road? I listen to, you know, I'm a
disco head, so I'm like listening to disco stuff all the
time. Funk stuff.
I listen to a lot of kind of like Dexter Wants All.
I listen to the Blackbirds, kindof like old funky disco disco
funk stuff was what I listened to.
(38:22):
That's what I listened to a lot of.
Anything that's got groove and drums, I'm listening to it.
That's absolutely what about potential?
I like to call them like secretsor tips on travelling with gear.
And I know it's again, possibly not an easy question to answer
(38:44):
because when a band gets to a certain level, there's crew guys
who take care of gear, etcetera,etcetera, etcetera.
So I don't expect you to just belike, well, my crew guy takes
care of it because that possiblyis the thing.
But if you're ever in positions where like maybe you're going on
a like a A1 off fly date and you've just got to take some
symbols and a snare drum or something.
(39:04):
That's a lot. What do you do to like, make
this protected while you travel,Especially with airlines
becoming so nitpicky with what you can travel with now?
OK, so I'll be honest with you. I tried to travel with as little
as possible for that same reason, right?
(39:27):
Because I don't trust any airline with my gear.
Yeah, unless I can take it on the plane myself, which is
highly unlikely or what I do is I told the the the producer or
the artist I want to hire in XYZ.
So I just send them a list of what I need and they and they
get it. Sometimes they can get it,
(39:48):
sometimes they can't. But I make do with what I'm
handed. You know what I mean?
You know, as long as the heads are new or.
Reasonable, you know, I can makeit work.
I can make it work. I just did AI, just did AI, just
did a three day recording session with a label doing a lot
(40:11):
of kind of disco tracks and stuff.
And the drums. The drums are OK, they're OK,
you know. But what I do is tune the way
that I like and I've had a lot of tracks to record within the
three days. So I try to be as efficient as
possible and they didn't have the high hats that I wanted and
(40:34):
I didn't want to travel with my high hats because the last thing
I want is for my precious high hats, which I love, you know, to
be lost because I will be very annoyed.
So I don't bring them. I just say I need this size
hats. Doesn't matter what it is, just
get me the high hats because back in the day, drums are just
(40:57):
drums. They just jumped on and just
played them. Look at the drums.
They just jumped in and just played them.
You know, you asked producers from way back gambling half
Dexter Watts, all those kind of guys.
I'd go Dexter, what kind of whatkind of drums were you using on
with MFSB on The Mysteries of the World?
He just, he just said to me, I don't know man, they're just
(41:18):
drums. Great line.
You're great line it's. A great line.
So I'm just like a drum. A drum's a drum, yeah.
It makes a sound. It's just what you do with it to
make it to get the sound that you want.
Exactly. And so that's, that's been my
attitude all the time. I don't really I I just carry as
(41:40):
little as possible drumsticks, some drum tuners, some maybe
rootsy QO rings just for quickness throw them on, makes
the drum sounds good or a big fat snare thing.
Yeah gets the sound that I want.Great.
You know some moon gel drum gauge as well.
(42:05):
Also good quick tuning as well. But I can also do it, you know,
manually. So for me it's not an issue.
Make sure I've got enough sticks, you know and I just,
everything just fits into one case.
I also carried a little and I rig.
I became a little, I rig and I bring a little 6 channel Yamaha
(42:29):
mix up. Easy, easy.
Yeah, yeah, I try not to carry no hardware, no pedals or what
pedal have you got? All right, that'll do.
And then I just set it up. You know, I'll try and be as
efficient as I can because you could be landed with any with
any situation. So you got to be prepared for
the worst. You might end up getting the
(42:50):
best basically. I love it, man.
Derek, at this point in your career, yeah.
What do you think has been the hardest part about being a
lifelong career musician? I suppose trying to think how to
move forward, you know, how do you expand on being a drummer?
(43:16):
Because people just see you as adrummer.
You just play the drums and that's it, right?
How do you expand and being a drummer?
That's most probably been one ofmy hardest challenges, and for
me it's being able to write and produce as a drummer.
(43:39):
Do you know what I mean? You know, to write tracks, to
produce tracks, to remix tracks,you know, to, to get into the
musical side, to get into the business side of it.
You know, that's most probably 1been the hardest part for me.
(44:00):
The drumming side is great because I've been doing it all
my life. It's the, it's the bits that
connect to it that you've got tolearn.
Do you know what I mean? You know, I think that's been
the hardest part, just trying tothink how do I move forward?
OK. So is that what led you to
eventually doing the production and the DJ ING and stuff like
(44:21):
that? Now that you are doing
production and DJ ING and possibly looking at music from a
different angle versus just a drummer angle, has it affected
the way you look at drums? Yeah, completely.
That's crazy. Yeah, big time.
Yeah. Yeah.
Because the the drums and instrument like a guitar or
(44:42):
whatever, but I look at it as like a as a melodic instrument,
even though it's not officially it's not, but you know, but I
look at it as a melodic instrument.
So I just think that's my main instrument.
How can I make everything work? How can I write a track where
everything works with the groovethat I put down?
(45:03):
Basically, you know, the way I record, the way the drum sound,
you know, because I'm quite, I'mnot, I'm picky, but I'm not
picky, you know, it's taken me years to get the sound that I
want. And people are always asking me
about the sound and stuff. Just like, well, a drum's a
(45:25):
drum, you know, see. And I just tune it in a certain
way, you know, I, I think the way I look at things now is I
just try to think musical. So everything that I do, it's
musical. I just try and think musical
about it. You know what I mean?
(45:46):
Baseline musical, drums musical where the kick drum is placed
without being too clinical. I mean, disco music.
It's not, it's, it's not, it's, it's not hard to play, but it's
also not easy to play. Do you see what I mean?
You know, because it is 4 to thefloor basically, you know, with
(46:06):
a couple of, you know, kick drums that have been that I
would say slightly misplaced, you know, put in different
places, you know, but it's it's how you feel that and how you
play that. Do you know what I mean?
So that's the musical side of it.
And then trying to make everything else work with that.
I want to make sure that moving forward, I understand what is
(46:31):
going on. You know what I mean?
You know, to make the track itself work.
You know, I've just done a remixfor this.
But it's right. I've just done a remix for a
band called The Wild Violets, upand coming UK band.
Amazing. They're really, really good and
I've just done a remix for them and I've put live drums on this
(46:52):
remix. One of the hardest things to do
actually. But if you want to get the in my
head, I have a vision. If you want to get that, that if
you want to make that vision come to life, you can.
You can't get it from loops and stuff like that.
You have to play. You have to play it.
You know what I mean? So I just get people to to play.
(47:16):
But again, going back to your previous question, what's the
hardest part? I actually did all the music for
it as well, but I put live drumson it as well and it's
completely turned the track around and without compromising
the integrity of the track. That's the other, you know what
I mean? How do you make this sound
(47:37):
pretty good with without destroying the song?
That's my thing because I'm I'm thinking as an artist, you know,
the last thing an artist or a band wants to hear, it's their
track cut to pieces and then andthen just turned it to something
that just doesn't work. But if they hear the song is
(47:57):
still there and they hear a different group behind it and it
all makes sense, they go amazing, great.
Because you haven't. The integrity of the track is
still there. You know the the song is still
there. You're still using elements of
the original song, but you've changed the baseline or you
changed the drums a bit, you've added some effects and stuff
(48:19):
like that. It just completely changes it
up. But the song is still there, the
chorus is still there. And then you just added some
some breakdowns and stuff, Yeah.And that's it, you know?
So again, moving forward, as it's a drummer, I want to be an
(48:42):
artist first and foremost. Harvey Mason's done it.
Billy Cobham's done it. Phil Collins has done it.
It's there's another drummer I know, Stokely, from a band
called Mint Condition. He's done it, Chris.
Daddy Dave's done it. Art Blakey's done it.
(49:03):
Oh, Blakey. All that, all that.
LB Jones. All Dave Grohl.
Dave, they're all artists. Yeah, they're drummers, but
they're artists. Yeah.
And Prince. Prince, you know he's.
He's in the land of his own. Different world, you know what I
mean? But it once said drums are the
(49:26):
the first instrument of a musician and then they then
become an artist in their own right.
So that's why I have to rate people like Billy Cobham and
Harvey Mason and all those guys.Do you know what I mean?
Then they they're my 2 favourites.
You know, oh, they're incredible.
And they've just basically turned that whole thing, they've
(49:50):
turned being a drummer into being not just a musician, but
being an artist. You've.
Got your own album and you've got 10 tracks that people go out
and buy. Then people are sampling those
tracks. You go, Oh my gosh, they're
sampling by track and the track is a massive hit.
Yeah, just go. That's an artist.
(50:12):
Yeah. Phil Collins, you know he's.
Me and I love Phil. Do a whole different, whole
different thing. But then he sings and he writes,
you know, these guys, they're writing, you know, And that's
what I want to do. That's what I strive to do, to
write to, to do some really cooltracks, you know what I mean?
You know, And they use great musicians, but they're artists
(50:36):
first and foremost. They go from being a musician to
being an artist. Yeah, I want to jump on the
floor to the floor bass drum disco beat that you briefly
alluded to because, you know, you make it sound easy.
And I suppose to drummers who on, you know, locked in on that
type of field, they probably think, well, that's so easy.
(50:59):
However, things something that, yeah, something that that I've
been asking percussionists and drummers more about more and
more lately is feel. And you called it musicality.
So whether you want to call it feel musicality, a lot of guys
call it pockets, you know, whatever you want to call it.
(51:22):
I love the, I love the stank face memes, you see?
You know, like that's how, you know, the drummers really got
that pocket, right? There's a stank face.
But what do you think is a way for people to try and develop
their own internal pocket, theirown feel, their own musicality,
(51:45):
whatever you want to call it, that thing that makes other
musicians go, Oh my God, did yousee Derek play that four on the
floor thing? What is that?
How would you describe it? Because because in my opinion,
it's almost undescribable because you talk to so many
different people and they've allgot different opinions on it.
Oh, it's this. It's that.
(52:05):
It's too many different things to be one thing generally.
It's feels. It's feel.
It's, it depends on the track aswell.
You know, that's got a lot to dowith it, but a lot of it is to
do with feel, just how you. Yeah, it can be about placement.
(52:29):
But you know what? When you're doing something like
disco or dance music, it's just a straightforward to the floor
and you and it's about the drive, it's about consistency as
well. If you listen to brass
(52:52):
construction, Shalimar Sylvesteris classic case of disco, right?
Do you know what I mean? If you listen to those tracks,
it depends on the tempo as well.Those tracks, it was about feel
and energy. What gets the pocket is the feel
(53:16):
and the energy. Doesn't matter what tempo it's
at, it's the feel and energy. Because I could do one, take it,
same beat, it could sound like this, I could do another take
and it could sound completely different.
Same drum, same drum rhythm. It could sound completely
different. There's something about it I
(53:37):
don't know. That bit I can't explain.
All I know is is that I've been doing it for a long time and I
know take 1 is different to takefour and they might use take 4
or they might use take two or three.
Do you know what I mean? You know, it's which one has the
(53:58):
energy and the feel and for me what gets of the people going.
But what you want to make sure is make sure it's consistent.
So every time you play it, people are still getting that
same vibe. It's not played once.
Oh, that sounded great. Play it again.
Not quite right there. What you wanted sounds great
(54:19):
when you hear it 50 times. Do you know what I mean?
You know you want it to. So it's about feel, it's about
energy, whether it's laid back, whether it's pushed, whether
it's when you, when you play thekick drum or do something on the
high hats or something, you do aroll, do a drum feel it needs to
(54:42):
be the right drum feel. You see what I mean?
You know, when I do, if I'm playing fall to the floor, do
I'm doing that and I'll go I'm doing that for a reason at that
point, because something on the vocal might be doing that.
(55:05):
Do you know what I mean? You know, so you know, if I do
like, so when I, when I play like like let's say chorus of
Cosmic girl, when I yeah, CosmicGirl, dude, I'm doing the, the,
the, the, the, the, the kick drum doing that.
She is just the do do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do from
(55:30):
under. Do you see what I mean?
Yeah, do, do, do, do from under the Galaxy.
So they they it's not intentional.
It's just the way it's just turned out.
So that's what I mean about energy, drive, feel.
It's about doing things which are purely coincidental, but it
works. But but it works.
(55:53):
And you know it when you play itback and you hear it back 10
times, you go, yeah, man, that'sa great drum tank.
But that groove is amazing. Do you know what I mean?
You know that you that's what brings it all on.
You know, you listen to you listen to ABBA, You know ABBA.
I'm sorry, I'm naming all these bands but these.
People. Oh no, they're great.
(56:15):
Massive hits, you know what I mean?
You know, you listen to the drumtakes on that, you go, crikey,
that actually sounds really good.
Do you know what I mean? You know, people might not like
the lyrics. You listen to the music, use the
musicality of it, you go, it actually works, you know?
(56:35):
And the same with rock music as well, you know, same thing.
Listen to the grooves. The grooves are working because
when you play, he's played it once.
You might have, you might have recorded it 10 times, but
there's one take that works every time.
And that's the take. Yeah.
No, you've got, I mean, you callit the the stank face.
I mean, I don't know anything about the stank face.
(56:56):
All I want to know is people aretapping their feet.
I've got a smile on their face and they're dancing.
That's that's my thing. I'm done.
I know I'm doing my job. Great.
Answer If you could change one thing in the current music
industry for the positive, what do you think you would change?
(57:19):
AI. Why?
Because it's making people lazy.I couldn't agree more man.
It's. Making people lazy.
Making people lazy? Oh, this is the track I've done.
No, you've AI D that it's rubbish.
You know the the one that's blowing up at the moment.
(57:40):
Suno, I'm sure you got to have it.
SUNOI. I'm getting DMS weekly from
musicians. Hey, what do you think of this
song I wrote? Right.
And I'm trying to be nice. I really am like each to their
(58:00):
own. If you're using it and you think
that that's what you need, I guess, I guess that's cool.
But something a lot of people don't know about Suno, because a
lot of people don't read terms and conditions, is if you are
using the free version of Suno and not the premier paid
(58:21):
version, any idea that you put into the prompt now is the
intellectual property. And I don't want to be the
bearer of bad news for people who didn't know that and are
listening to the show. But at risk of sounding a bit
sadistic, I'm not totally against that because these
(58:42):
people who are suddenly all songwriters who've never touched
a musical instrument or listen, I get it.
Creativity works in so many different ways, right?
So I'm not trying to put my noseup at that.
But there's some people, especially on my like, timeline
at the moment, man, it's like, I've seen these guys like Devil
(59:03):
and, and you go like that, they they saying that they wrote this
song and you go like, this guy sounds like an incredible
singer, like, wow, how did he learn to sing like that?
And you go like, wait, this guy's never sang a note in his
life, you know? So I'm interested to see where
it goes. It's a little scary.
Well, it'll keep on developing because you know if you prompt
(59:23):
something enough times, it'll keep on learning itself.
Do you know what I mean? A classic case of it, and again,
I don't would be the bear of badnews.
Look at the watch the film Terminator, right?
And basically Terminator is Suno, the musical Terminator.
You know what I mean? You know, because you're
prompting it all the time. So it's self aware.
(59:46):
It's just doing its own thing, you know.
And at the back end of it, when does it stop?
Yeah, you know what I mean? You know, I mean, record
companies are already odd labels.
Not record companies, but labelsthey're already developing.
IAI generated characters doing these songs and then just
(01:00:10):
throwing them out there. Do you know what I mean?
You know, Spotify is well known for it, you know, and somebody
told me about a guy who basically has basically a
massive room full of computers generating these tracks.
And then they just keep on playing these tracks constantly,
(01:00:31):
constantly keep playing these tracks, playing these tracks,
playing these tracks. And he's just basically just
generating all this money. Yeah.
For himself. It's so bizarre because part of
me goes, part of me goes, smart dude, you know, good for him.
And then and then another part. From a business point of view.
(01:00:53):
The the moral side of me goes, well, that's just wrong, man.
Think about all the musicians who you know, especially when
you think about streaming and the the way it pays artists and
you go like think about how manyartists have put their blood,
sweat and tears and died to makethe music that they've let alone
the years it's taken. And they, they're not earning a
(01:01:17):
scene because this guy just happens to have maybe a less
moral outlook and was like, fuckthis, I'm going to go get the
money, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's what it is. It's just about all about the
money, you know, because it's one of the, if you're doing
well, if you're doing really well, you know, and then you,
(01:01:38):
you can make a lot of money, youknow, you can make a lot of
money. You know, unfortunately now
things like Spotify, but I, I mean, I don't know what iTunes
pays, but if it pays at all, I don't know all those, they're
just advertising platforms. Don't expect to make any money.
(01:01:59):
You're not going to make a cent unless you're Taylor Swift or
something. But even then, yeah, Taylor
makes a tonne of cash. She's made more money going live
and that's where it's at live gigging.
I've set my advice all musicians, gig, gig, gig, gig,
gig, gig as much as you can. It's hard work, but gigging
(01:02:25):
pays, man. Because music, live music, will
never lose its appeal. Doesn't matter where you are,
doesn't matter where you are, doesn't matter what function
you're having. If you've got a live band,
you're doing all right. If you get 100 pounds, £50 or 5
million, 50 million, a 100 million, it doesn't matter.
(01:02:46):
The thing is, live music will never go down, down the down the
drain. It will never go down the drain.
People want to see live music. People want to see live
musicians, period, Period. Yeah.
You know. Well, that leads me to my last
question. Derek, you just mentioned some
(01:03:08):
really good advice playing live,so I don't want to put you on
the spot here. But what in your opinion has
been either the best piece of advice you've ever received in
regards to your own musical career?
Or if you can't think of something along those lines,
what do you think could serve asgreat advice to an up and coming
(01:03:32):
musician who's tried to forge their own career?
Number one, be in control of your own career.
That's number one, first and foremost from a musical and
business approach. And always strive to be a better
you. Always strive to be a better
(01:03:54):
you. I think that's always a good
thing, you know, because nobody is better than you than you.
Does that make sense? You know what I mean?
You know, because today you could be here, but actually
(01:04:17):
tomorrow you could be there. And then once you get to that,
then you can be there. Don't aim too high, just go
slowly. Beautiful, man.
Listen, I can't thank you enoughfor your time.
Thanks for the years. Oh, yeah, man.
Listen, we we could talk for another hour.
(01:04:38):
I've skipped through loads of this, but it's like it's been so
nice, just flowing. It's like it's flowed really
nicely. You got a great energy.
You too, by the way. Thank you so much man.
Thank you really. Enjoyed it.
Keep on rocking, keep on making good music.
I should say keep on grooving because you're a groove machine.
(01:05:00):
But no seriously man, best of luck with Jamiroquai, best of
luck with all the DJ stuff for your own artist stuff.
And I'll, I'll talk to you soon man.
Thanks for everything. Thank you.
Thanks for having me and keep ondoing those podcasts.
They're great. Thank you, Derek.
OK, there we have it, everybody.The one and only Derek McKenzie.
(01:05:23):
As mentioned at the top of the show, I'd like to encourage you
to please leave us a rating or review.
Don't forget to check out all things Derek McKenzie related at
his link in our show notes. Again, I can't encourage you
enough to go check out Jamiroquai and some of the other
work that Derek has done. For more information on myself,
Travis Mark, please do visit musicians-mentor.com.
(01:05:46):
If I can help you with your bandor your artist type career, just
drop me Adm. I'm always happy to help.
A little side note, if you are still listening to this closing
statement, I do apologise for some of the sniffing in this
audio. Derek was suffering from hay
fever and I was getting over a cold.
But we still wanted. To do the interview and I'm so
glad we did. I'll see you on the next one.
(01:06:08):
Keep pushing, be diligent, have some fun.
There's lots of beauty in the world.
Peace.
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