February 12, 2026 • 54 mins
In a compelling exchange on the Naija Filmmaker podcast, Victor Ugoo Njoku articulates his vision for a more inclusive and representative Nigerian film industry. Throughout the episode, he recounts his formative experiences that ignited his passion for filmmaking, particularly the influence of his academic background in mass communication. Njoku discusses the pivotal moments that shaped his understanding of storytelling, emphasizing the need for narratives that reflect the genuine experiences of marginalized groups. His latest documentary, This Is Love, serves as a testament to this mission, as it intimately examines the lives of three LGBTQ couples in Nigeria. Njoku candidly shares the challenges faced during the production process, including the necessity of creating a safe environment for participants to express their truths. The conversation extends to the broader implications of representation in film, as Njoku advocates for improved storytelling practices within Nollywood. He stresses that the success of the industry hinges on its ability to embrace diversity and elevate underrepresented voices, thereby enriching the cinematic landscape in Nigeria.
In this episode, you will learn the following:
- The podcast episode unravels how Victor Njoku’s path to filmmaking began not on a grand stage, but from a place of keen observation.
- Victor's motivations for making a queer-focused film and commitment to authentic representation
- Victor's self-awareness about learning and growth as a filmmaker.
Resources:
https://www.instagram.com/victorugoonjoku/
https://guidedoc.tv/documentary/this-is-love-documentary-film/
Other episodes you'll enjoy:
https://thenaijafilmmaker.com/episode/chiomaonyenwe
https://thenaijafilmmaker.com/episode/creativeoge
https://thenaijafilmmaker.com/episode/danieloriahi
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
You're welcome to the NaijaFilmmaker, a podcast about Nigerian
filmmakers, their films, andhow it can build a diverse and functional
industry. I'm your host, SeleGot. On this episode, my guest is
Victor Ugoo Njoku. He's amultimedia content strategist and
director. He directed andproduced the documentary, This Is
Love, which explores theromantic relationships of three queer
(00:24):
couples. We talk about how hegot started, the kind of stories
he likes to tell, and some ofthe challenges he faced making this
documentary. If you're a newlistener, you're welcome and I hope
you enjoy. Hi, Victor. You'rewelcome to the Naija filmmaker.
Thank you for having me.
(00:45):
All right, can you introduce yourself?
Okay, so my name is Victor andI. I don't like introducing myself
because I'm not sure what isexpected of me, but I'm going to
say that I make films. I havea podcast and I'm a student. I'm
doing my master's degree inglobal communication at the moment.
(01:07):
And what else can I say?
I mean, I think that that's agood start. I guess as the interview
goes on, we'll learn moreabout you.
Yeah, we're going to. I'mgoing to hop on that, too.
All right, so, you know, let'sstart at the beginning. You know,
everybody has that spark that,you know, pretty much, you know,
(01:30):
pushes them. Okay, this is.Making films is something I want
to do for you. When did yourealize you were interested in making
films? What was your firstexperience, you know, interacting
with this industry?
So I think the firstexperience was. Or the first time
I thought this was possiblewas my first time on a movie set.
(01:53):
Right. And I know this soundsridiculous because most people who
want to make film talk aboutthe arts angle of things and how
they wanted to pursuecreativity and all of that. I knew
I wanted to tell stories. Ihad a blog at the time. I was a university
student, but I got to workwith an actor and I had to be on
set for it. And I remembercoming and being disappointed. I
(02:16):
just thought this could havebeen better organized. A lot of things
didn't seem well thought outand I could do a better job. And
I remember thinking, whose jobis it to make all of this work? And
that's the first time Iremember trying to think about what
exactly all these titles yousee at the end of films are. I watch
film. I watch them a lot, andI watched a lot as a kid, so you
(02:37):
hear about these titles. Butif I really think about what exactly
does it mean in practice? Iremember trying to Figure out whose
job would it have been to beable to make sure that things were
seamless on this set. Andthat's when I started getting interested.
So I thought maybe I couldactually be a film producer. Because
in my head all you're supposedto do is pull things. Resources,
(02:57):
maybe production managers,something along the lines of just
being able to. I think I putit more like it's an event where
you just manage people, makesure these things move accordingly.
But also the thing about alsobeing on that set was also it's made
me first of all understand howmaking film work in spite of all
(03:17):
the chaos I discovered duringthe time I was there. And also made
me realize how big a mediumfilm is. And you think again, for
someone who watches movie, Iwould have known. And I was studying
mass communication at thetime, so you think I should know.
But it's. I mean I think Iknew in on paper, but just being
on this, on this set made merealize the value and the worth and
(03:42):
the size of what it is. And Iremember thinking about some of the
stories I had on my blog andhow it would have been so much better
if they were on picture. Thatwas the first of my thoughts. Okay,
I would want to be afilmmaker, right? But you don't.
Again, I was studying masscommunication, I want to finish my
degree, get a job and all ofthat. So it became something I just
thought about and never reallytook any steps. How do we achieve
(04:05):
all of this upwards? Ifinished my. My university graduation
and I remember the time Istarted trying to now see how I could
still have my 9 to 5 and stilldo this film thing and decide. But
basically that's how thejourney started. That's for me, that's
the first time. And eventuallyafter my studies I also began to
(04:25):
get more interested in a lotof other things like topics around
representation. I don't thinkit was after my. So it was around
my time of my program studyingMassCom. My, my. My research also
was on. My bachelor researchwas on representation or rather was.
It's not so much as it's onportrayal, but basically it's something
around the topic. And I thinkthat's also what's then helping me
(04:47):
to try to understand the kindof films I wanted to make. I think
I wanted to make films thatkinda highlight or portrays people,
portray people who areminority groups and yeah, also creates
better portrayal of certainother people. But yes, so it is also
(05:10):
learning about portrayal.Understand all of this. And that's
how the journey started. Ican, I could say that. Yeah.
Okay. And you know, this firstfilm said that you are on what, you
know, role where you taskedwith. And how was that like watching
(05:31):
everybody?
I was just an assistant to oneof the actors. So as a personal assistant,
you're supposed to let himknow or the actor know when he was
supposed he's dead on set. Forinstance, made sure I got the costumes
before on time so he couldchange and then return the costume
(05:55):
when he's done. Basicallywhatever he needed on the set was
what I was tasked to help himhelp do. But also. So it wasn't much
of a big deal. I didn't haveany creative contribution to make.
I just had also read thescript and help him remember which
paper. Like when they say it'sseen whatever. And being able to
say this is what you expect incase he had forgotten what he was
(06:16):
supposed to do. And then whenhe did the script, I went out to
make sure it was available,stuff like that. So it was not any
creative work. So to say I wasjust there as an assistant. But of
course, just being in theprocess she also seen how other people
were working. I remember Inoticed a continuity error that I
(06:36):
wasn't trying to notice. Andthen also realizing, well, who am
I supposed to tell? Becauseyou know how Nigerians are when you
actually didn't like thecommunity of the job. I can't say
anything about the job, but Iremember he came up as a rude person.
I think I had wanted to speakto him about something I noticed
and he was rude and I didn'tpoint it out. But yeah, in that.
Just being in that set, Icould see that the community could
(06:57):
have done a better job. Icould see that there was no. I mean,
I think theoretically therewas a plan of which scene comes after.
But there were also timesafter if has been shot, nobody knows
the next scene. It's like theyhad to talk about which scene is
going to. It's like almostlike. Almost a random selection of
scenes or. I remember therewas a particular day we'd gone to
(07:21):
a particular set and all of asudden they said, we are no longer
going to shoot here. We haveto do another scene first. We have
to move from that state to theother. And I kept on thinking whose
job was it to make this thingnot be like this again? I understand
now. I understand because Iwas still worked closely and talked
with mop. I know a lot ofthings could come up at that time.
I didn't have the grace tounderstand all of it. But I remember
(07:43):
just being off put by it. Andalso thinking, because nobody seemed
to be taking responsibility,just, okay, we hear this, everybody's
grumbling, right? Nobody evenknows the reason the set, the change
has been made. But you justhave to show up where you expected
to show up. And even that forme was a problem because I'm also
thinking if you make suchchanges, the least you could do is
(08:04):
communicate it so thateverybody on the set can see we are
moving from this set, anotherset. Because maybe we realize the
lighting is not going to workor maybe we realize that there was
what could. Whatever could bethe reason. But that was also part
of the things that I thought.Someone who likes to uplan things
and who is very orderly. Itwas just not something I could wrap
(08:26):
my head around. But I was justthere on the set as an assistant
and I couldn't do much becauseyou couldn't also give feedback.
Because a lot of people wereseeing me for the first time. They
didn't know me. Whatever Ithought was something I couldn't
express.
Yeah, okay. And you know, youmentioned that you have gone on to
work on other films such asYahoo and Uno.
(08:50):
Yes. So for Yahoo. Because theperson who directed and produced
and wrote for Yahoo, plus theone I've known my entire life, I
had to read the script firstof all, before even anything started.
We worked on the script. Imean, I didn't work. I just was giving
feedback. I do a lot of that.I talk a lot. So I was giving feedback.
And then the film started. Iwas supposed to be on the set of
(09:13):
it, but I couldn't be on theset because I had this course I was
taking at the time thatwouldn't allow me do that. Then I
came in eventually tosupervise the. The subtitle. Right.
And that was my first timebeing on seeing how post production
(09:36):
works. I had. I was. Iactually slept on the studio for
a few days and I couldn't. Itwas very. Again, it's like seeing
these things on a differentset is a different ball game. Post
production, a different ballgame. All together now. I came. But
also you realize how it works,right? You have to watch this film
(09:58):
again and again. And if youmight have seen the script. And that
was my first time seeing thecourts and seeing what it looks like.
And I was thinking. I don'tknow what I was thinking, but I was
thinking everything was goingto be done serially, scene by scene.
But that's not even how thepost production. At least that's
not the experience I had. Soit was a different experience. Just
(10:19):
observing things. But yes, Imostly did supervise the subtitle,
being sure that everything waswell interpreted because a lot of
the conversation happened inIgbo and Pidgin, and also not because
we had to also factor in howto make sure the translation was
done, not just so that youhear the words and it's English,
(10:40):
but also in such a way that itmakes sense in an English context
for someone who doesn'tunderstand Igbo, for them to understand
the sentences and theparagraphs. And I know I was asked
to do that work because one ofthe things I do a lot when people
who know me personally, Icomplain a lot about subtitles in
Nollywood films. It is a lotof times you see films where they
(11:01):
just do a literal translation,where this doesn't make sense. When
you think about the fact thatit's an English sentence, it doesn't
make sense that you translatethis literally. There are things,
of course, that has to betranslated just literally, but there
are things that you have tomaybe use the right substitutes,
English proverbs or idioms asopposed to doing a literal translation.
(11:23):
I always ranted about it. So Ithink that was. I'm sure that's why
he asked me to supervise, sowe can avoid some of those. And also
realize for the first timeagain, when you do things, you also
begin to give people moregrace. Because it's like, this is
not as simple as I thought itwas because now you have to think
about it. There are wordsentences that we have to really
(11:45):
deliberate on a few times toknow what works. And then you suddenly
realize you don't even knowhow to speak English because you're
no longer sure if it's aplural. You're no longer sure how
Concord works and all of that.But yeah, that's the first. The other
project I worked on then forYahoo. No Yahoo. Again, I got the
(12:08):
script. I was. Because at thispoint I was more keen on being into
production. So I was more apart of the production than I was
for Yahoo. I was every part ofthe production actually was a part
of it up until the shooting ofthe film and also was part of it
(12:30):
to an extent. During the postproduction. I was in the studio,
but I still had to watch thefirst Courts and give feedback and
all the work. So I wasbasically there as maybe I would
say, as an associate producerand like as a consultant contribution
(12:50):
or suggestions and how to makethe production more seamless. And.
Yeah, okay, so from theseexperiences, like, what do you prefer?
Do you prefer being on set orin post production, like working
in post.
Production, I would say Iwould prefer being on set, but of
(13:14):
course they require differentskill set and they require different
temperament and one has to, soto say real, not real rain. But basically
you just have to remindyourself where you are. Because with
sets there are a lot of movingparts in terms of even the people,
in terms of a lot of thingsthat may be out of control. It's
(13:35):
more chaotic, I would say. Ialso think I like the idea of just
working with people. I enjoyit and just seeing how this plan
you've mapped out about howthis production is going to work
is actually working. And ofcourse there are a lot of unplanned
things that come up, but youstill would put some structure in
place to make sure that weavoid as much unplanned things happening.
(13:57):
And. But for the postproduction part is more. I think
it's more creative, whichagain, it's also more to an extent
boring or not boring, butrepetitive. Because if you're going
to watch whatever film you'reworking on several times, if it's.
And even though you've made aninteresting film, I don't think,
(14:21):
I think at some point you getbored because you've seen this scene
10 times, you've seen it 15times, and you're just looking for
the one thing or trying tothink about how to make the scene
better. And you're, you'redoing a lot of conversation with
other people on the, on theproject. And so it could become a
little bit repetitive in a waythat could bore someone. And it's
(14:43):
a slower paced work as opposedto production where there are a lot
of quick movements and peopledoing things. Yeah. So I think I
would prefer production. Andalso for me at this point, I still,
because I'm still very new tothings, I'm still trying to figure
out things. It still feels alittle more technical than what I
could easily handle withouthaving to really think about it,
(15:05):
if you know what I mean.
Okay, this project, this yournew film, this Is Love. Can you give
us a quick synopsis about whatthe documentary is about?
So this is Love is adocumentary film that explores LGBTQ
romantic relationships inNigeria. And this is done by looking
(15:29):
at the lives of three LGBTQLGBTQ couples in Nigeria. And we're
fortunate to have a gaycouple, a lesbian couple, and a couple
consists of a trans man and awoman. So it is. Which I think to
(15:49):
an extent gives us a full ideaof not necessarily all the spectrums,
but it's expansive in itself.And I think like the woman dating
this trans man was. Has alsobeen. Is the person that has been
with men. So I, I wouldn't asfar as saying he's. That she's bisexual,
because that has never. Thatwas not communicated to me. But it
(16:12):
also gives perspective becausewe all talk about at least that you
hear people say that sexualityis a spectrum, which I think it is,
and how people all of a suddenbelieve in a straight life, so didn't
realize that maybe they mightnot be very straight or how people
who have been gay or realizemaybe they actually might be into
women. And how someone who.Their life as a CIS person suddenly
(16:35):
think or realize that they maybe transsexual. So it's not always
a constant. So being thatwe're able to have people with different
experiences, like one of thelesbian couple has also been with
men before and also identifiesas a sexual. As she said in the documentary.
So I like the fact that we areable to get different people with
different experiences. Butaltogether, this is a film about
(16:57):
LGBTQ plus romanticrelationships in Nigeria and how
people who are in thiscommunity navigate such relationships
in spite of the fact that it'sa country where gay rights is stifled
and people could be in jailfor being in such relationships.
(17:17):
I mean, it's more complex thanthat, but yeah.
Yeah. Okay, so let's talkabout your process. You know, as
you were preparing to makethis documentary. So at what point
did you, you know, realize,okay, this is a documentary I wanted
to make and how did you goabout, you know, finding, you know,
(17:37):
the vessels, the charactersthat will carry this documentary?
So how did I, for me, at somepoint, when I said I was going to
really try my hands infilmmaking, it was important for
me that the first film wasgoing to be a choir film. However,
for the longest of time, Ialso was not. Was very sure I didn't
(17:59):
want to make another sad queerfilm. And why was interesting important
for me to make a cure film?It's as simple as the fact that growing
up in Nigeria as an affemineperson, even before you get a chance
to identify yourself, peoplewould identify you as a gay person.
And the implication of that isthat you get treated as the way people
(18:20):
treat gay people. Withbasically, you be at the brunt of
Nigeria homosexual, sorry,homophobia, in the way people treat
you. People are not going togive you jobs and people are not
going to want to work with youon certain projects. People are going
to say very mean things. Weare going to try to bully you. People
are going to bully you. It'snot just a trying. People are going
(18:42):
to try to hurt you in so manyways. And I have lived in some ways.
Some of these examples I knowI remember the first time I had the
first interview I did afteruniversity. I had gone to an interview
and this woman says to me thatthey wouldn't consider me for the
(19:02):
job just because I'meffeminate. And actually told me
that as an affirmative personthat the only choices I had is to
either work in going toentertainment and be another version
of Din really or Bobrisky. Andthis is. You just think about it,
you're just out of university.This is you've applied for a job,
(19:24):
you are happy about theprospect of doing an interview and
this is your first experience.That definitely can be crippling.
And that was not. That's notthe first time I've been to an interview.
And people are trying to makeassumptions based on my sexuality
or just saying things areproblematic and all of that. So for
me it's been. But also thething about living some of these
(19:45):
experiences that you also tryto mold your life around it. Around
it. There are things Iwouldn't do in 93 Nigeria alone.
For instance, I wouldn't wantto go to a big market in Nigeria
alone. And it's not becauseI've had a bad experience in the
market where you know that itcould happen. So just going with
someone is the shield. Itcould be the difference between it
not have the difference of itnot happening. I sometimes I wouldn't
(20:08):
go to a certain place when Ilived in Lagos without an Uber because
you don't want to be on thebus. Especially the places that are
described as rough. You don'tjust know what to expect. And it's
not just about having themoney. It's just about. I mean, I
think I'm in love that I couldafford it at the time, but I know
people couldn't afford it. Sobasically some of these experiences
(20:28):
means that you have to buildyour life around protecting yourself.
And for me it meant that alsothere are things I wanted to try
that I never tried out becauseof the. Not. Not necessarily the
fear, but also the. Thelogistics of protecting yourself
in order to do certain things.Yeah. And so when I said I wanted
(20:52):
to make a film, it wasimportant for me that the film is
a quiet film for me. It's insome part me saying to. Trying to.
Because how do I explain it? Iknew, for instance, if I'd done a
film, think about a subject,it could be Science fiction. And
it's a good film and I have totalk about it. If I do an interview
to talk about it, I can tellyou for a fact, after the interview,
(21:14):
the question is going to beabout my accents, my voice, maybe
my, my demeanor, how I, I'mmoving my hand around a little too
much. And all of that thingthat has nothing to do with the film.
So I already know that itdoesn't matter what I do. My, my
effeminacy is going to takecenter stage. And so for me, it's
(21:34):
in some way saying that I'mtrying to shed off the fear of not
doing things just because ofthe implications of it. Right. And
in some ways also adding myvoice to something, a subject I particularly
believe in. I do notunderstand the idea of homophobia.
(21:55):
I actually never did. And Isaid it as a person who was thrown
into the world of peoplecalling you gay homosexual. And you
are trying to understand whatdoes this even mean? Because you
are not even sexually active.You don't even know. You are too
young to even process all ofthis. And you have, in this age,
trying to also research whatdoes it mean to be gay? What does
it mean to be homosexual? Areyou trying to even understand this
(22:15):
subject outside of the conceptof it just being something that means
a man who sleeps with a man?You're trying to understand what
does it mean? Why does it haveanything to do with me? I don't know
if you get the point I'mmaking. So you've, yeah, done your
research. You're trying tounderstand all of this, what it means.
And so for me, it's also mesaying that in some sense it doesn't
(22:38):
so much matter what the titleis, because quite frankly, what can
I do? Because I don't thinkhiding or not doing things have saved
me from any of the harassment.And I don't think it can ever save
me. And. But also, like Isaid, it's just me lending my voice
to a subject I particularlybelieve in. And that's what I said
about not wanting to look atthat choir film because already there's
(23:00):
a lot of. A lot of it. And Ialso have the belief that every queer
story in Nigeria, every storyabout a gay person, a lesbian person,
is a sad story. It doesn'tmatter how you look at it. So. Which
is why it's important that wedon't. For me, I didn't want to tell
a predominantly sad storybecause it doesn't matter how beautiful
the story is, it's going to bea sad story. And that was why it
(23:22):
took me so much, so long tofinally make my first project. Because
I was trying to find what thatstory that is not predominantly a
sad story. And eventually wesaid what this is.
Why is it predominantly sad?
So it is predominantly sadbecause, I mean, you watch this,
this is love. There are threecouples, they are together, but we
(23:45):
have these people in a mask.There is love is supposed to be a
beautiful thing that peoplecelebrate and are happy for. But
think about telling your lovestory, but you can only tell it through
a mask. There is somethingabout that that is inhumane, sad.
And I really don't think Ihave the words to think about it
(24:06):
to really qualify what it is.It's wickedness. It's Carlos. So
there is no way, and we triedso much to make this film to make
sure that it has a happyending. But when you really think
about it, is it really a happyending that these people are going
to leave this set and walkback on the streets and can't hold
(24:26):
hands together and can't dancetogether in a party? Or they can't
just go to their family to saythat they are gay, lesbian? I mean,
you hear the story, the onewho mentioned they couldn't come
out to their father becausethat's the only way they could maintain
the relationship they havewith their father. You hear the one,
the one who's mentioned howmany times he's been harassed. Nobody
(24:53):
wants to live a life wherethey have been harassed. So again,
even if these people havebuilt little fun for themselves,
they are living beautiful lovestories. It is still a very sad story.
And that's exactly why Ithought from the get go, this story
is going to be a sad storybecause it's a story of people who
are in love, but they are nothappy. It's a story about people
who are pursuing freedom insome way, but it's not full, it is
(25:17):
limited. So for me, from theget go was important that it was
not going to be my first film.Again, there is room for all of these
queer stories, regardless ofhow sad they are. But for me particularly,
I wanted to find a story thatit's not just another heartbreaking
thing, but something thatcould also give people some level
of hope in the fact that yes,it's hard, but there's no one doing
(25:39):
it. Maybe I could find alittle patch of happiness as a gay
person, as a lesbian person,as a trans person in Nigeria, in
spite of all of the hardness.But yes, it is a sad story and there
is nothing anybody could do tomake it less a sad story. Until queer
people can become queer,Lesbian people can be lesbian. I
like to choose lgbtq. Lgbtq.Plus people can really live a full
(26:04):
life where they don't have tohide, where they don't have to take
on other identities. Yes.
Yeah. Okay, so at this point,we'll take a little segue. Can you
mention three random factsabout yourself?
Three random facts aboutmyself. How much of a fat are we
(26:26):
looking at? What kind of fatare we looking at? Can you give me
an example?
So it could be that, you know,you. You are a master chef. You know
how to cook everything in thisworld. Or it could be that, you know,
you're a virtuoso, so you knowhow to play the piano. Just random
(26:47):
things that, you know, I'm not talented.
That's the first thing that Ithink is a random thing. But I could.
Because you said somethingabout cooking. I make a very, very
mean offer. Basically. That'sbecause people call it bangass, too.
I can make. I make. I don'tthink I can. I don't think. Maybe.
Let me not brag a little toomuch, but I make a very mean bangass,
(27:09):
too. Like, usually mysiblings, my cousins, are always
excited when I'm at home and Ihave to make it. And when I think
about visiting home again isone of the things I think I want
to just cook so that in thetime I'm around, they can have a
taste of me making ofako. Iknow I'm very good at it. And then
(27:29):
one other random fact ispeople I don't. I think it depends
on who you meet. A lot ofpeople. I don't know how to explain
it, but people I went toschool with would swear to you that
I'm the most extrovertedperson in the. In this life. But
anybody that meets me outsideof school context. Introverted, I
(27:51):
don't know. I cannot tell youhow that came about. But it's always
very interesting to hearpeople from different parts of my
life trying to make sense ofhow someone could think that. Basically
just have people, like, if Iintroduce my friends now from school
and someone I met from workand the way they would describe my.
(28:12):
The. The person I work won'tunderstand some of the things the
person at school would say andI cannot explain because I don't
think I'm different anywhere.It's just that somehow in school,
I tend to be a little moreinstrumental than I am outside of
other place. But I think thepoint is I'm good at school. So there's
no concern for me about. I'mnot trying to. I'm not second guessing
(28:35):
every other place. Sometimes Isecond guess myself in a little.
In little doses. Oh, yeah.
Okay. What's the story behindhow you became quite good at making
faku?
I don't know. I learnedcooking from my mother, by the way,
and I. So I just, I think itjust, it just happened that they
(28:56):
think I'm good at it and Ithink I believed it and. Yeah, but
I learned to cook from mymother, so I usually use that. I
would say I use her recipe. Somaybe because my mother is good at
it too, but I just said thatbecause I generally cook better stews,
better soup than I make stew.I make very good soup. Generally
I make good stews, but I makebetter soup than I make stew. So.
But of fact is also like moredifficult to make. So I think the
(29:19):
harder the food is to make,the better I cook it. So like think
about something like bitterloop soup. I'll make a better bitter
sound. Make a bonus soupbecause one is very simple. Just
bend your money and done. Butif you have to pound it, the. The
coco yam and the fact. So forme, when it's take me a lot of work,
I have to make it worth itbecause I'm a lazy person. So I'm
(29:39):
going to sweat in this kitchenpounding apple, which is pumpkin
up or pounding cocoa yam. Ithas to be good, please. That's the
least I could do to show offthat I really put in the work.
Yeah, okay. All right. So withthis Is Love, did you go into, you
(30:02):
know, production thinking youare making a certain type of documentary
and how great was that changein terms of what you finally made?
You know, sometimes withdocumentaries you learn things on
the go and you have to pivotand change what it is you're focusing
on in the story. But how wasthat, that transition from what you
(30:25):
decided to make and what youended up making for this?
God blessed for me. Right. Butone of the things that helped because
he mentioned about seeing thedifference, one of the things that
he did was gives me this bookwhen I brought up the idea of this
Is Love. And one of the thingsin that book that I remember that
I held on to, I didn't finishreading the book. I've not finished
(30:45):
reading the book more or less.Was a part of its mention something
about documentary film, howthe story generally can go to other
places you didn't expect it toand how things could change?
Yeah.
And that's something that Ithink I like the fact that I read
because when things seem tohave changed, it was not. It was
(31:06):
easier for me to adapt to thechange because I was expecting it.
Right. And also. But I didn'talso. But also it helped me to come
my expectation. Right. Becauseyou're thinking you're going to ask
people questions, they'regoing to say this, they're going
to, they're going to say that.But the reality is you don't know
these people and it is theirstory and there's only. You're only
(31:29):
working with the story they'vetold you. Right. I think the book
also mentioned that sometimes,sometimes the story depends on who
is telling it in terms of the.Who the character is. Because if
you have characters that arevery interesting, they're going to
tell very interesting story.Opposed characters who are not very
interesting. I'm talking aboutinteresting as their personality,
not so much about the storyhere. So I also think I'm happy that
(31:51):
I knew that much before I wentin because if I didn't know that,
maybe I would have also beenfrustrated about what I got. But
these are people. And also italso made me a little more open to
even expect in terms of what Iexpected. Right. Because these are
people and people are going toreveal themselves to you in the way
(32:13):
they could or in the way theyare comfortable too. And there is
nothing anybody is going to doabout it. So yes, there will be a
lot of changes when I started,right. Because this is going to myself
problematic. But because I wastrying to make this story to be as
I wanted a story that wasaspiratory. But because I think romance
(32:39):
is aspiratory as a concept.This is a romance story as much as
a documentary. For me, it's aromance story. So romance as a concept
is aspiratory. So I want it tobe as aspiratory as possible. And
one of the things that makesus especially if given the Nigerian
background where there ismoney is a big problem. And also
you fear concerns aboutqueerness or gay people, gay people's
(32:59):
experiences where people aretrying to equate as choice people
make for money. So at the onstart I wanted a story that had particularly
people who were doing well oncertain financial aspect so that
nobody would ever dream ofsaying that they are. These people
are gay, lesbian or what orany of the letters of the Alphabet
(33:24):
just because they are tryingto make money. But then you begin
to do more research and alsoyou have to come to terms with the
reality of it. Right. Andbased on also trying to just be honest
about what could happen. Iknew that that is a bit of a taller
order. It's a bit of a tallorder because how do I find these
(33:44):
people? Who are these people?I'm not saying that we are doing
this because we couldn't findthem, but also it's like it just
also increases the bar. Butalso it also means that we're going
to remove ourselves from theexperience of just the average Nigerian
because the average Nigerianis not that successful. And I think
also coming to that realitywas a very good thing because now
(34:06):
I was a little. We became alittle more open that this is actually
a documentary. And indocumentary story about queerness,
a queer person is allowed tobe broke, a corporate person is allowed
to be whatever. And this isnot to say that they are not be successful.
Yes, but I don't think notbeing successful in the way they
are doing so much much have somuch money does not make their story
(34:26):
less important. Right. And Ithink that was a very big shift we
had to make where we allowedmore people to be open. And I can
tell you also it's that choicealso was good because we now have
people with differentfinancial ranges. And I think at
least there one or two peoplein that documentary. If I had the
kind of money they have, I'llbe fine. But. And it's not like they
(34:49):
are very rich. But you alsoget my point. They're doing well
for themselves. Most of themhave a career, which is what we made
sure we insisted on at the endof the way we try to adjust the reality.
We had to also be at least ifyou have something that brings them
money. Right. So again,because we wanted to make sure as
much as people are not sayingthis is what this person is gay,
this person is lesbian, thisperson is anything just because they're
(35:11):
trying to make money. So thatwas the bearers that was at least
like the only limit we placedon it. So this someone that makes
their own money regardless ofhow much or how little it is. And
then we start we found thepeople and it was important from
the good that is there was agay couple and there was a lesbian
(35:32):
couple. That was another thingwe set out for. Now the third couple,
even though wanted to take canbe anything. So in that regard we
had something better. We hadnow a trans man and a CIS woman who
in a relationship that was athing of if it happened that would
have been great. And ithappened. But for us it was a product
about this gay lesbian andthen whatever else and so those are
(35:56):
part of the changes thathappened. Again, I couldn't control
the stories they told. Right.I didn't ask anybody what story they
were going to tell, but theonly thing we did was we talked to
them before the film and gotto have an idea of who they were
and what to expect to anextent. But obviously we couldn't
predict everything. I don'tknow if that answers the question.
(36:18):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it does.Another thing is how were you able
to get them to like, trulyopen up? You know, because there
are times where, you know, youhave planned your documentary and
you're there and what you'rehearing is just really disappointing.
(36:38):
And I mean, it's quiteimportant that you know your characters
or the focus of yourdocumentaries, you know, trust you
to tell their story and reallyopen up and, you know, show should
show their world. So how didyou kind of achieve that with this
(37:00):
is Love?
So I think it's just honesty.I. That sounds a little too simplistic,
but when we met the peoplethat were supposed to be on the project,
I think we were honest withthem. And one of the parts we did,
one of the things we didbecause we understood the nature
of the documentary, everybodyon the documentary signed an NDA.
(37:22):
And the reason we signed it,we also have to explain it. We trust
your partner, we trust yourpartner, but we also want to make
sure that even if anythinggoes wrong, your partner is still
held bound to not reveal youridentity, which is one of the reasons
they had to sign the NDA. Sothe NDA was just not just to protect
them, but not just protectthem as a couple, but to protect
(37:44):
them as individuals. And wemade sure we clarified that and that's
part of the contract. Andhopefully if, God forbid, they break
up, hopefully nobody's goingto try to go against it. But the
idea was to make sure thateverybody feels protected as individuals
and as a couple. And weexplain this is important for you
to do this right? Andthankfully they bought into it. But
(38:07):
also beyond even having thatwritten agreement where we clarify
why it is important to dothis, it's also the fact that we
explained the idea what iswhat we're trying to do. This is
why we need you as a person tocome on board and then what is comfortable
for you? What would you wantus to talk about? So even some of
(38:27):
the steam build up was aconversation that we had with these
people about the things theywanted to do. Again, we can admit
that we would have done a lotmore things if we didn't have to
consider the fact thatshooting on the street of Lagos is
a lot of risk. And that was arisk I was particularly not willing
to take. I don't think as muchas I think we have a very important
(38:51):
story. The safety of the sixpeople whose stories we've told is
more important than the story.I was not going to take any chance
that is going to put someoneat risk. Not even at the risk of.
Not even the risk of beingbullied. Let's more a risk of actually
being attacked. So we wantedto show things in public and we discussed
(39:12):
it. But the reality we had toalso talk about. These are the risk
involved and how much of itare you willing to take. And particularly
for the couple that wasn'twearing masks. Because I knew it
was a big risk and we had todiscuss all of it and get an idea.
This is what we are trying tomake. So based on the ideas we've
gotten from them, this is howwe are going to make it work. Another
(39:36):
thing was at the start, whichI think also even answers some of
the question. The lastquestion you asked wanted to shoot
in their houses. Because wethought that was going to be more
comfortable for everybodybecause it's going to be a safe space.
But back to us talking to themas people. People who have agency
and who have the right to sayno or yes. When we brought up the
(39:57):
idea one, the first couple wespoke to said they won't do that
because it's going to. Theyare not comfortable with strangers
coming to their house.Particularly because they are women.
And yes, it's a valid concernbecause you don't know what the strangers
are capable of doing. Eventhough we expect them to be professional
after the structure show hasbeen. The production has been done.
(40:20):
So we're like that's anothergood argument. So we said we couldn't
shoot in their house, but wecould at least try to create the
scenes to look like theirhouses as much as we can afford to.
Which is what we try to do.Add elements from their houses in
making the production the. Theset to look as much as we can from
(40:41):
what they feel comfortablewith. So we discussed with them,
we told them what we're goingto do. And then we also told them
every other person working onthe project is also signed the contracts.
Because we know these aregoing to see you. And also we assured
them we're going to have likea seminar. I think one of my regrets.
I should have documented theseminar. Not documented in terms
of recording, but document thematerial I used. So we Had a little
(41:06):
seminar about queer awarenesswith the people who we, the crew
members. It's just a littleconversation. One, we talked about
identity, how to respectpeople boundaries, what not to say,
what to say again, becauseeven though we trusted those people,
(41:29):
I don't like living things forchance. And I told the cast, we are
going to do this. You're goingto talk to the cast to make sure
you have. Nobody saysanything. At least we had to make
sure we did it. And we spoketo all the crew members, everybody
that was going to see the caston the production. We spoke to them
about respect, identity. It'sjust. It was a brief meeting. It
was not something elaborate.And we had this conversation because
(41:52):
we didn't want C to be asituation where nobody says they
didn't understand. And I'mhappy we did because they were respectful
on set. Even the crew membersconfirmed, the cast confirmed how
they were well treated. Nobodysaid anything wrong. And being again
that we had three women onset, we also introduced the production
(42:12):
manager, who is a woman ontime to these people because she
was going to be in contactwith them. And it was partly important
to have a woman on theproduction because the two directors
are men, the three producersare men, and we were the first contact.
And the casting director whogot. Who found these people was a
man. So it was. You shouldunderstand, given this world we live
(42:36):
in, why a woman may not bevery comfortable. So we also made
sure they met the productionmanager on time, who is a woman,
to also as they would as toreduce whatever doubts they might
have about their securityconcerns. And we also made the production
manager like the contactperson for anything going wrong.
(42:57):
So. Because I think it's alsoeasier for people to talk to men
than they talk to women. And Ithink that's part of the things we
did to build trust. You know,one of the cast eventually called
me class captain because ofhow I was going on and on and on
and on. And I think. I thinkat the point, it also made me realize
that maybe I should calm down.But I think it was proof that I was
(43:18):
doing something that wastrying to really show that I cared.
Because Class Captain is likebasically saying, yeah, maybe you're
doing too much. He meant thatas a joke, but I think I got it too.
And I think it was. It's partof the science that we really tried
to respect them. And yeah,yeah, I mean, I mean.
(43:38):
Well done on, you know,creating a safe space for, you know,
your. Your contributors to,you know, be themselves. So ask what
was the Plan with thedistribution. Is it available to
what watch? Did you submit itto festivals?
Yes, we were. We submitted tofestivals. We didn't have as much
(44:01):
success as we expected, but wewere at a few festivals. We won an
award in a festival in Braziland we are live on a streaming platform
called Guide Doc. Guide has toguide someone and then doc as short
for documentary writtentogether. And it's a documentary
(44:22):
only streaming service thatis. It's available everywhere in
the world. So anybody couldwatch in Nigeria, in the uk, in Germany
or wherever in the world theperson is. Yeah, but it's also like
a very strict. A smallstreaming platform. But at some point
I think we might have to makeit available on YouTube because for
me it's also very importantthat it is something that every Nigerians
(44:45):
could easily access. And sothere's also plan about making that
work at some point.
Okay. Yeah. At this point.Want you to share a film like your
favorite film. Whether it'sfilm or series. Which film has a
(45:06):
special place in your heart?
You won't believe the film I'mgoing to share, but I'm going to
share it anyway. One of myfavorite films is. Why am I forgetting
the name? Pretty Woman. PrettyWoman. I need to watch. Have I watched
it this year? I used to watch,I think for a while I watched it
almost every year. At leastonce I stopped but I went back to
(45:27):
it. I think I've watched it atleast once this year too. I don't
know. And then there is DevilWears Prada also I'm a big fan of
Devil Wears Prada. I also oneof those movies I watch a lot like
almost yearly tradition kindof thing. And for the first time
last year I saw this series.It's an old series from 1980 something.
It's called the Golden Girls.And I tell you what, that's one of
(45:52):
the best I've seen on TV againbecause I remember seeing someone
talk about how the continuityis flopped and all of that. Like
every film, it has its serieshas its problems. But I love the
series a little too much also.It's like it breaks me comfortable.
Actually I was telling afriend recently, if someone is going
to like this is love the way Ilove Golden Girls. I'll feel like
(46:13):
I've succeeded in life becauseI was. There was a time in my life
last year I was going througha tough time. I couldn't sleep. It
sounds like a miracle, but Iwas not sure what to do. So this
day I played Golden Girls. Iwas able to sleep for Like a week
I couldn't sleep withoutplaying Golden Girls. And that's
(46:33):
how much comfort it brings tome. Of course I have to win myself
out of it, but. Yes. So it'snot any of the big films anybody
would expect, but these arefilms I love. I love films that are
just light. And I'm also a bigfan of romance.
Romance is kind of the guidingthread through the films you mentioned.
Yeah, I'm a big fan ofromance. Yeah. But Golden Dust is
(46:55):
not necessarily romance. Ifso, Gave Way is not romance. But
I love romance. I'm justsaying. I just need to say it. I
love romance.
Okay. What are you working on?Do you have a project coming up?
What should we expect from Victor?
Me? I don't know, actually, atthis moment. I don't know. At the
moment, there's no project inthe works. I was so sure I was going
(47:18):
to do something this year, butwe didn't get to it. But there are
a few ideas of documentariesthat I have written down, sketches
and all of that. We just haveto start thinking about how to bring
the next one to life. I. Atsome point, I was sure what the second
project was going to be, butright now I'm no longer sure. But
I do a few ideas. But alsothere's something I've been looking
(47:39):
to explore. I want to. I don'tthink if I'm allowed to share now,
we could talk about itpersonally. But some of things sometimes
I want to do next year and I'ma bit thrilled by it because that's
what I've ever done before. Ithas nothing to do with film, but
I'm really excited about it.So I don't think I should share about
it now, but. Because the ideais still visibly still forming. But
(48:03):
that's something I think I'mmore likely going to do last next.
Even more likely than doing afilm or there should be a film soon.
I'm not sure when.
Okay. All right. Before we getto how we can keep up with your work,
can you talk about. Yeah, Imean, at the beginning of the interview,
you mentioned, you know, beingon your first film set. It was quite
(48:26):
disorganized. There are a lotof things that you felt could be
better. Having made yourdocumentary, worked on other projects,
and I guess followed industrynews a bit for you. What do you feel
as an industry we should beprioritizing and improving. You know,
like, there are a lot ofthings that are going good for us
(48:48):
and there are a lot of thingsthat are not so great for you what
do you think we need to befocusing on to, you know, kind of,
I guess, level up to improvewhat we make as an industry?
I think the story. The story.I don't want to say too much, but
I think the story, a lot ofthem have holes in them and yeah,
(49:13):
some of them have beautifulideas, but the story could be simplified
and more focused and just somuch better. And there's a lot of
gap between Africanliterature, Nigerian literature,
and the film. When you readAfrica, a book by Nigerian writers,
it is clear that Nigerians cantell good stories. But when you watch
(49:35):
a Nollywood film.
Yeah.
Sometimes you are not sure.Sure what's going on. So we should
write better stories. I thinkthen. Language is another thing that
happens in Nollywood thatstresses my life out. Within the
last couple of years, we'veseen more films with of local languages
done in local languages, whichis very beautiful. I can speak on
(49:59):
as an evil person. There wasthis film that trended last year,
and I was watching it and Icouldn't stop but wonder why everybody
in the film spoke Igbo in adifferent dialect. Again, I live
in the. I grew up in the East.I knew sometimes you meet people
(50:20):
with different dialects fromthe place that you live in. But it
is not so random as it is in afilm where nobody, no two people
were speaking the samedialect. In this film, and it's even
worse. The movie is cast. Theperson, the Parker, speaks a different
dialect from the city themovie was cast or the city the. The
place they told us he camefrom. Again, it can't be that hard
(50:43):
to find. I'm a big fan of.It's okay. The actor is not allowed
to be popular. Find actors. Ifyou go to that city where the movie
is, you can find people whocould do the film. Again, that sounds
like I'm not being practicalabout the economic things of things.
The movie doesn't have to beIgbo. Make it an English film. Quite
(51:05):
frankly, if you really cannotdo this little work, because if you're
trying to draw this, we wantit to be language, the least you
could do make it make sense.Because the thing about is it's okay
to see all the dialects, butwhen people speak in different dialects,
even with such a multiple,it's such a dialectical language,
right. In Anambra state alone,there are about 50 dialects. It's
(51:25):
just a small state. So if youhear this amalgamation of dialect,
sometimes it can be confusing.It's just hard to fall. It's distracting.
And maybe I'M being a littlebit nitpicky, but that's my experience.
I'm not saying dialect isbetter than the other, but it could
be a little more coordinationin that regard. If family. Everybody's
(51:46):
speaking different dialects.Okay, my family speak different dialects,
but it's not so common that ithappens. So I'm just saying there
could be more coordination inthe language. I don't know what it
is like in the Yoruba culture,but I can speak about Ebo culture.
It's possible that we couldmaybe people learn dialects too.
Just maybe make it a littlemore aligned. Right. And then this
(52:06):
accents that people use, thisis not like I'm complaining. There's
this accent that people dowhen they just put that evil character
is supposed to be a rich manand suddenly this have this accent.
That is not an Igbo accent. Ithink everybody should stop it. It's
2025. That accent is not evenrelevant to the story. So why are
we having this person making amess of themselves all in a bit of
(52:29):
having an accent thatsometimes supposed to be realistic.
I think everybody shouldreally reign it in if you want an
accent. I think an accent ofan evil person is an Igbo accent.
It doesn't matter if it soundsa little American, even though. Because
we all don't have the sameaccent. Even in the East. I grew
up in the East. I've hadpeople who speak different accents
and they all grew up in theEast. So expecting someone to suddenly
(52:52):
know how to say their hoursjust because they are in a movie,
it's a little too much. It's2025. Nobody sounds like that. And.
But again, the core thing ofNollywood. I'm sorry. Is. Sorry.
Beautiful stories. Every otherthing is going to fall in place,
I think.
Okay. All right. So, you know,with this project you might start
(53:15):
next year. Like, how canpeople keep up with, you know, things?
You're working on your otherprojects. You have social media,
a website.
I don't have a website, but Iam on Instagram and on Twitter, on
LinkedIn, even though I'mtrying to use all of them less than
I do at the moment. But I'm.You could just go search my name
on the platform. It's the sameVictor Gonjok or you'll find me.
(53:37):
Ugo is usually written withdouble O because most people don't.
But I write mine with doubleO, so I don't know. I think that's
how I could be found on social media.
All right, thank you, Victor,for you know, sharing your process
and the making of this is love.
Thank you for having me.
(53:58):
We have come to the end ofthis episode. Remember to rate and
review the the podcast. Youcan also follow me on Instagram,
Facebook and X at SelectorFilm and the podcast at Niger filmpod.
You can now support thepodcast by clicking on the link in
the show notes. See you on thenext episode. Have a good one.
You're welcome to the NaijaFilmmaker, a podcast about Nigerian
filmmakers, their films, andhow it can build a diverse and functional
industry. I'm your host, SeleGot. On this episode, my guest is
Victor Ugoo Njoku. He's amultimedia content strategist and
director. He directed andproduced the documentary, This Is
Love, which explores theromantic relationships of three queer
(00:24):
couples. We talk about how hegot started, the kind of stories
he likes to tell, and some ofthe challenges he faced making this
documentary. If you're a newlistener, you're welcome and I hope
you enjoy. Hi, Victor. You'rewelcome to the Naija filmmaker.
Thank you for having me.
(00:45):
All right, can you introduce yourself?
Okay, so my name is Victor andI. I don't like introducing myself
because I'm not sure what isexpected of me, but I'm going to
say that I make films. I havea podcast and I'm a student. I'm
doing my master's degree inglobal communication at the moment.
(01:07):
And what else can I say?
I mean, I think that that's agood start. I guess as the interview
goes on, we'll learn moreabout you.
Yeah, we're going to. I'mgoing to hop on that, too.
All right, so, you know, let'sstart at the beginning. You know,
everybody has that spark that,you know, pretty much, you know,
(01:30):
pushes them. Okay, this is.Making films is something I want
to do for you. When did yourealize you were interested in making
films? What was your firstexperience, you know, interacting
with this industry?
So I think the firstexperience was. Or the first time
I thought this was possiblewas my first time on a movie set.
(01:53):
Right. And I know this soundsridiculous because most people who
want to make film talk aboutthe arts angle of things and how
they wanted to pursuecreativity and all of that. I knew
I wanted to tell stories. Ihad a blog at the time. I was a university
student, but I got to workwith an actor and I had to be on
set for it. And I remembercoming and being disappointed. I
(02:16):
just thought this could havebeen better organized. A lot of things
didn't seem well thought outand I could do a better job. And
I remember thinking, whose jobis it to make all of this work? And
that's the first time Iremember trying to think about what
exactly all these titles yousee at the end of films are. I watch
film. I watch them a lot, andI watched a lot as a kid, so you
(02:37):
hear about these titles. Butif I really think about what exactly
does it mean in practice? Iremember trying to Figure out whose
job would it have been to beable to make sure that things were
seamless on this set. Andthat's when I started getting interested.
So I thought maybe I couldactually be a film producer. Because
in my head all you're supposedto do is pull things. Resources,
(02:57):
maybe production managers,something along the lines of just
being able to. I think I putit more like it's an event where
you just manage people, makesure these things move accordingly.
But also the thing about alsobeing on that set was also it's made
me first of all understand howmaking film work in spite of all
(03:17):
the chaos I discovered duringthe time I was there. And also made
me realize how big a mediumfilm is. And you think again, for
someone who watches movie, Iwould have known. And I was studying
mass communication at thetime, so you think I should know.
But it's. I mean I think Iknew in on paper, but just being
on this, on this set made merealize the value and the worth and
(03:42):
the size of what it is. And Iremember thinking about some of the
stories I had on my blog andhow it would have been so much better
if they were on picture. Thatwas the first of my thoughts. Okay,
I would want to be afilmmaker, right? But you don't.
Again, I was studying masscommunication, I want to finish my
degree, get a job and all ofthat. So it became something I just
thought about and never reallytook any steps. How do we achieve
(04:05):
all of this upwards? Ifinished my. My university graduation
and I remember the time Istarted trying to now see how I could
still have my 9 to 5 and stilldo this film thing and decide. But
basically that's how thejourney started. That's for me, that's
the first time. And eventuallyafter my studies I also began to
(04:25):
get more interested in a lotof other things like topics around
representation. I don't thinkit was after my. So it was around
my time of my program studyingMassCom. My, my. My research also
was on. My bachelor researchwas on representation or rather was.
It's not so much as it's onportrayal, but basically it's something
around the topic. And I thinkthat's also what's then helping me
(04:47):
to try to understand the kindof films I wanted to make. I think
I wanted to make films thatkinda highlight or portrays people,
portray people who areminority groups and yeah, also creates
better portrayal of certainother people. But yes, so it is also
(05:10):
learning about portrayal.Understand all of this. And that's
how the journey started. Ican, I could say that. Yeah.
Okay. And you know, this firstfilm said that you are on what, you
know, role where you taskedwith. And how was that like watching
(05:31):
everybody?
I was just an assistant to oneof the actors. So as a personal assistant,
you're supposed to let himknow or the actor know when he was
supposed he's dead on set. Forinstance, made sure I got the costumes
before on time so he couldchange and then return the costume
(05:55):
when he's done. Basicallywhatever he needed on the set was
what I was tasked to help himhelp do. But also. So it wasn't much
of a big deal. I didn't haveany creative contribution to make.
I just had also read thescript and help him remember which
paper. Like when they say it'sseen whatever. And being able to
say this is what you expect incase he had forgotten what he was
(06:16):
supposed to do. And then whenhe did the script, I went out to
make sure it was available,stuff like that. So it was not any
creative work. So to say I wasjust there as an assistant. But of
course, just being in theprocess she also seen how other people
were working. I remember Inoticed a continuity error that I
(06:36):
wasn't trying to notice. Andthen also realizing, well, who am
I supposed to tell? Becauseyou know how Nigerians are when you
actually didn't like thecommunity of the job. I can't say
anything about the job, but Iremember he came up as a rude person.
I think I had wanted to speakto him about something I noticed
and he was rude and I didn'tpoint it out. But yeah, in that.
Just being in that set, Icould see that the community could
(06:57):
have done a better job. Icould see that there was no. I mean,
I think theoretically therewas a plan of which scene comes after.
But there were also timesafter if has been shot, nobody knows
the next scene. It's like theyhad to talk about which scene is
going to. It's like almostlike. Almost a random selection of
scenes or. I remember therewas a particular day we'd gone to
(07:21):
a particular set and all of asudden they said, we are no longer
going to shoot here. We haveto do another scene first. We have
to move from that state to theother. And I kept on thinking whose
job was it to make this thingnot be like this again? I understand
now. I understand because Iwas still worked closely and talked
with mop. I know a lot ofthings could come up at that time.
I didn't have the grace tounderstand all of it. But I remember
(07:43):
just being off put by it. Andalso thinking, because nobody seemed
to be taking responsibility,just, okay, we hear this, everybody's
grumbling, right? Nobody evenknows the reason the set, the change
has been made. But you justhave to show up where you expected
to show up. And even that forme was a problem because I'm also
thinking if you make suchchanges, the least you could do is
(08:04):
communicate it so thateverybody on the set can see we are
moving from this set, anotherset. Because maybe we realize the
lighting is not going to workor maybe we realize that there was
what could. Whatever could bethe reason. But that was also part
of the things that I thought.Someone who likes to uplan things
and who is very orderly. Itwas just not something I could wrap
(08:26):
my head around. But I was justthere on the set as an assistant
and I couldn't do much becauseyou couldn't also give feedback.
Because a lot of people wereseeing me for the first time. They
didn't know me. Whatever Ithought was something I couldn't
express.
Yeah, okay. And you know, youmentioned that you have gone on to
work on other films such asYahoo and Uno.
(08:50):
Yes. So for Yahoo. Because theperson who directed and produced
and wrote for Yahoo, plus theone I've known my entire life, I
had to read the script firstof all, before even anything started.
We worked on the script. Imean, I didn't work. I just was giving
feedback. I do a lot of that.I talk a lot. So I was giving feedback.
And then the film started. Iwas supposed to be on the set of
(09:13):
it, but I couldn't be on theset because I had this course I was
taking at the time thatwouldn't allow me do that. Then I
came in eventually tosupervise the. The subtitle. Right.
And that was my first timebeing on seeing how post production
(09:36):
works. I had. I was. Iactually slept on the studio for
a few days and I couldn't. Itwas very. Again, it's like seeing
these things on a differentset is a different ball game. Post
production, a different ballgame. All together now. I came. But
also you realize how it works,right? You have to watch this film
(09:58):
again and again. And if youmight have seen the script. And that
was my first time seeing thecourts and seeing what it looks like.
And I was thinking. I don'tknow what I was thinking, but I was
thinking everything was goingto be done serially, scene by scene.
But that's not even how thepost production. At least that's
not the experience I had. Soit was a different experience. Just
(10:19):
observing things. But yes, Imostly did supervise the subtitle,
being sure that everything waswell interpreted because a lot of
the conversation happened inIgbo and Pidgin, and also not because
we had to also factor in howto make sure the translation was
done, not just so that youhear the words and it's English,
(10:40):
but also in such a way that itmakes sense in an English context
for someone who doesn'tunderstand Igbo, for them to understand
the sentences and theparagraphs. And I know I was asked
to do that work because one ofthe things I do a lot when people
who know me personally, Icomplain a lot about subtitles in
Nollywood films. It is a lotof times you see films where they
(11:01):
just do a literal translation,where this doesn't make sense. When
you think about the fact thatit's an English sentence, it doesn't
make sense that you translatethis literally. There are things,
of course, that has to betranslated just literally, but there
are things that you have tomaybe use the right substitutes,
English proverbs or idioms asopposed to doing a literal translation.
(11:23):
I always ranted about it. So Ithink that was. I'm sure that's why
he asked me to supervise, sowe can avoid some of those. And also
realize for the first timeagain, when you do things, you also
begin to give people moregrace. Because it's like, this is
not as simple as I thought itwas because now you have to think
about it. There are wordsentences that we have to really
(11:45):
deliberate on a few times toknow what works. And then you suddenly
realize you don't even knowhow to speak English because you're
no longer sure if it's aplural. You're no longer sure how
Concord works and all of that.But yeah, that's the first. The other
project I worked on then forYahoo. No Yahoo. Again, I got the
(12:08):
script. I was. Because at thispoint I was more keen on being into
production. So I was more apart of the production than I was
for Yahoo. I was every part ofthe production actually was a part
of it up until the shooting ofthe film and also was part of it
(12:30):
to an extent. During the postproduction. I was in the studio,
but I still had to watch thefirst Courts and give feedback and
all the work. So I wasbasically there as maybe I would
say, as an associate producerand like as a consultant contribution
(12:50):
or suggestions and how to makethe production more seamless. And.
Yeah, okay, so from theseexperiences, like, what do you prefer?
Do you prefer being on set orin post production, like working
in post.
Production, I would say Iwould prefer being on set, but of
(13:14):
course they require differentskill set and they require different
temperament and one has to, soto say real, not real rain. But basically
you just have to remindyourself where you are. Because with
sets there are a lot of movingparts in terms of even the people,
in terms of a lot of thingsthat may be out of control. It's
(13:35):
more chaotic, I would say. Ialso think I like the idea of just
working with people. I enjoyit and just seeing how this plan
you've mapped out about howthis production is going to work
is actually working. And ofcourse there are a lot of unplanned
things that come up, but youstill would put some structure in
place to make sure that weavoid as much unplanned things happening.
(13:57):
And. But for the postproduction part is more. I think
it's more creative, whichagain, it's also more to an extent
boring or not boring, butrepetitive. Because if you're going
to watch whatever film you'reworking on several times, if it's.
And even though you've made aninteresting film, I don't think,
(14:21):
I think at some point you getbored because you've seen this scene
10 times, you've seen it 15times, and you're just looking for
the one thing or trying tothink about how to make the scene
better. And you're, you'redoing a lot of conversation with
other people on the, on theproject. And so it could become a
little bit repetitive in a waythat could bore someone. And it's
(14:43):
a slower paced work as opposedto production where there are a lot
of quick movements and peopledoing things. Yeah. So I think I
would prefer production. Andalso for me at this point, I still,
because I'm still very new tothings, I'm still trying to figure
out things. It still feels alittle more technical than what I
could easily handle withouthaving to really think about it,
(15:05):
if you know what I mean.
Okay, this project, this yournew film, this Is Love. Can you give
us a quick synopsis about whatthe documentary is about?
So this is Love is adocumentary film that explores LGBTQ
romantic relationships inNigeria. And this is done by looking
(15:29):
at the lives of three LGBTQLGBTQ couples in Nigeria. And we're
fortunate to have a gaycouple, a lesbian couple, and a couple
consists of a trans man and awoman. So it is. Which I think to
(15:49):
an extent gives us a full ideaof not necessarily all the spectrums,
but it's expansive in itself.And I think like the woman dating
this trans man was. Has alsobeen. Is the person that has been
with men. So I, I wouldn't asfar as saying he's. That she's bisexual,
because that has never. Thatwas not communicated to me. But it
(16:12):
also gives perspective becausewe all talk about at least that you
hear people say that sexualityis a spectrum, which I think it is,
and how people all of a suddenbelieve in a straight life, so didn't
realize that maybe they mightnot be very straight or how people
who have been gay or realizemaybe they actually might be into
women. And how someone who.Their life as a CIS person suddenly
(16:35):
think or realize that they maybe transsexual. So it's not always
a constant. So being thatwe're able to have people with different
experiences, like one of thelesbian couple has also been with
men before and also identifiesas a sexual. As she said in the documentary.
So I like the fact that we areable to get different people with
different experiences. Butaltogether, this is a film about
(16:57):
LGBTQ plus romanticrelationships in Nigeria and how
people who are in thiscommunity navigate such relationships
in spite of the fact that it'sa country where gay rights is stifled
and people could be in jailfor being in such relationships.
(17:17):
I mean, it's more complex thanthat, but yeah.
Yeah. Okay, so let's talkabout your process. You know, as
you were preparing to makethis documentary. So at what point
did you, you know, realize,okay, this is a documentary I wanted
to make and how did you goabout, you know, finding, you know,
(17:37):
the vessels, the charactersthat will carry this documentary?
So how did I, for me, at somepoint, when I said I was going to
really try my hands infilmmaking, it was important for
me that the first film wasgoing to be a choir film. However,
for the longest of time, Ialso was not. Was very sure I didn't
(17:59):
want to make another sad queerfilm. And why was interesting important
for me to make a cure film?It's as simple as the fact that growing
up in Nigeria as an affemineperson, even before you get a chance
to identify yourself, peoplewould identify you as a gay person.
And the implication of that isthat you get treated as the way people
(18:20):
treat gay people. Withbasically, you be at the brunt of
Nigeria homosexual, sorry,homophobia, in the way people treat
you. People are not going togive you jobs and people are not
going to want to work with youon certain projects. People are going
to say very mean things. Weare going to try to bully you. People
are going to bully you. It'snot just a trying. People are going
(18:42):
to try to hurt you in so manyways. And I have lived in some ways.
Some of these examples I knowI remember the first time I had the
first interview I did afteruniversity. I had gone to an interview
and this woman says to me thatthey wouldn't consider me for the
(19:02):
job just because I'meffeminate. And actually told me
that as an affirmative personthat the only choices I had is to
either work in going toentertainment and be another version
of Din really or Bobrisky. Andthis is. You just think about it,
you're just out of university.This is you've applied for a job,
(19:24):
you are happy about theprospect of doing an interview and
this is your first experience.That definitely can be crippling.
And that was not. That's notthe first time I've been to an interview.
And people are trying to makeassumptions based on my sexuality
or just saying things areproblematic and all of that. So for
me it's been. But also thething about living some of these
(19:45):
experiences that you also tryto mold your life around it. Around
it. There are things Iwouldn't do in 93 Nigeria alone.
For instance, I wouldn't wantto go to a big market in Nigeria
alone. And it's not becauseI've had a bad experience in the
market where you know that itcould happen. So just going with
someone is the shield. Itcould be the difference between it
not have the difference of itnot happening. I sometimes I wouldn't
(20:08):
go to a certain place when Ilived in Lagos without an Uber because
you don't want to be on thebus. Especially the places that are
described as rough. You don'tjust know what to expect. And it's
not just about having themoney. It's just about. I mean, I
think I'm in love that I couldafford it at the time, but I know
people couldn't afford it. Sobasically some of these experiences
(20:28):
means that you have to buildyour life around protecting yourself.
And for me it meant that alsothere are things I wanted to try
that I never tried out becauseof the. Not. Not necessarily the
fear, but also the. Thelogistics of protecting yourself
in order to do certain things.Yeah. And so when I said I wanted
(20:52):
to make a film, it wasimportant for me that the film is
a quiet film for me. It's insome part me saying to. Trying to.
Because how do I explain it? Iknew, for instance, if I'd done a
film, think about a subject,it could be Science fiction. And
it's a good film and I have totalk about it. If I do an interview
to talk about it, I can tellyou for a fact, after the interview,
(21:14):
the question is going to beabout my accents, my voice, maybe
my, my demeanor, how I, I'mmoving my hand around a little too
much. And all of that thingthat has nothing to do with the film.
So I already know that itdoesn't matter what I do. My, my
effeminacy is going to takecenter stage. And so for me, it's
(21:34):
in some way saying that I'mtrying to shed off the fear of not
doing things just because ofthe implications of it. Right. And
in some ways also adding myvoice to something, a subject I particularly
believe in. I do notunderstand the idea of homophobia.
(21:55):
I actually never did. And Isaid it as a person who was thrown
into the world of peoplecalling you gay homosexual. And you
are trying to understand whatdoes this even mean? Because you
are not even sexually active.You don't even know. You are too
young to even process all ofthis. And you have, in this age,
trying to also research whatdoes it mean to be gay? What does
it mean to be homosexual? Areyou trying to even understand this
(22:15):
subject outside of the conceptof it just being something that means
a man who sleeps with a man?You're trying to understand what
does it mean? Why does it haveanything to do with me? I don't know
if you get the point I'mmaking. So you've, yeah, done your
research. You're trying tounderstand all of this, what it means.
And so for me, it's also mesaying that in some sense it doesn't
(22:38):
so much matter what the titleis, because quite frankly, what can
I do? Because I don't thinkhiding or not doing things have saved
me from any of the harassment.And I don't think it can ever save
me. And. But also, like Isaid, it's just me lending my voice
to a subject I particularlybelieve in. And that's what I said
about not wanting to look atthat choir film because already there's
(23:00):
a lot of. A lot of it. And Ialso have the belief that every queer
story in Nigeria, every storyabout a gay person, a lesbian person,
is a sad story. It doesn'tmatter how you look at it. So. Which
is why it's important that wedon't. For me, I didn't want to tell
a predominantly sad storybecause it doesn't matter how beautiful
the story is, it's going to bea sad story. And that was why it
(23:22):
took me so much, so long tofinally make my first project. Because
I was trying to find what thatstory that is not predominantly a
sad story. And eventually wesaid what this is.
Why is it predominantly sad?
So it is predominantly sadbecause, I mean, you watch this,
this is love. There are threecouples, they are together, but we
(23:45):
have these people in a mask.There is love is supposed to be a
beautiful thing that peoplecelebrate and are happy for. But
think about telling your lovestory, but you can only tell it through
a mask. There is somethingabout that that is inhumane, sad.
And I really don't think Ihave the words to think about it
(24:06):
to really qualify what it is.It's wickedness. It's Carlos. So
there is no way, and we triedso much to make this film to make
sure that it has a happyending. But when you really think
about it, is it really a happyending that these people are going
to leave this set and walkback on the streets and can't hold
(24:26):
hands together and can't dancetogether in a party? Or they can't
just go to their family to saythat they are gay, lesbian? I mean,
you hear the story, the onewho mentioned they couldn't come
out to their father becausethat's the only way they could maintain
the relationship they havewith their father. You hear the one,
the one who's mentioned howmany times he's been harassed. Nobody
(24:53):
wants to live a life wherethey have been harassed. So again,
even if these people havebuilt little fun for themselves,
they are living beautiful lovestories. It is still a very sad story.
And that's exactly why Ithought from the get go, this story
is going to be a sad storybecause it's a story of people who
are in love, but they are nothappy. It's a story about people
who are pursuing freedom insome way, but it's not full, it is
(25:17):
limited. So for me, from theget go was important that it was
not going to be my first film.Again, there is room for all of these
queer stories, regardless ofhow sad they are. But for me particularly,
I wanted to find a story thatit's not just another heartbreaking
thing, but something thatcould also give people some level
of hope in the fact that yes,it's hard, but there's no one doing
(25:39):
it. Maybe I could find alittle patch of happiness as a gay
person, as a lesbian person,as a trans person in Nigeria, in
spite of all of the hardness.But yes, it is a sad story and there
is nothing anybody could do tomake it less a sad story. Until queer
people can become queer,Lesbian people can be lesbian. I
like to choose lgbtq. Lgbtq.Plus people can really live a full
(26:04):
life where they don't have tohide, where they don't have to take
on other identities. Yes.
Yeah. Okay, so at this point,we'll take a little segue. Can you
mention three random factsabout yourself?
Three random facts aboutmyself. How much of a fat are we
(26:26):
looking at? What kind of fatare we looking at? Can you give me
an example?
So it could be that, you know,you. You are a master chef. You know
how to cook everything in thisworld. Or it could be that, you know,
you're a virtuoso, so you knowhow to play the piano. Just random
(26:47):
things that, you know, I'm not talented.
That's the first thing that Ithink is a random thing. But I could.
Because you said somethingabout cooking. I make a very, very
mean offer. Basically. That'sbecause people call it bangass, too.
I can make. I make. I don'tthink I can. I don't think. Maybe.
Let me not brag a little toomuch, but I make a very mean bangass,
(27:09):
too. Like, usually mysiblings, my cousins, are always
excited when I'm at home and Ihave to make it. And when I think
about visiting home again isone of the things I think I want
to just cook so that in thetime I'm around, they can have a
taste of me making ofako. Iknow I'm very good at it. And then
(27:29):
one other random fact ispeople I don't. I think it depends
on who you meet. A lot ofpeople. I don't know how to explain
it, but people I went toschool with would swear to you that
I'm the most extrovertedperson in the. In this life. But
anybody that meets me outsideof school context. Introverted, I
(27:51):
don't know. I cannot tell youhow that came about. But it's always
very interesting to hearpeople from different parts of my
life trying to make sense ofhow someone could think that. Basically
just have people, like, if Iintroduce my friends now from school
and someone I met from workand the way they would describe my.
(28:12):
The. The person I work won'tunderstand some of the things the
person at school would say andI cannot explain because I don't
think I'm different anywhere.It's just that somehow in school,
I tend to be a little moreinstrumental than I am outside of
other place. But I think thepoint is I'm good at school. So there's
no concern for me about. I'mnot trying to. I'm not second guessing
(28:35):
every other place. Sometimes Isecond guess myself in a little.
In little doses. Oh, yeah.
Okay. What's the story behindhow you became quite good at making
faku?
I don't know. I learnedcooking from my mother, by the way,
and I. So I just, I think itjust, it just happened that they
(28:56):
think I'm good at it and Ithink I believed it and. Yeah, but
I learned to cook from mymother, so I usually use that. I
would say I use her recipe. Somaybe because my mother is good at
it too, but I just said thatbecause I generally cook better stews,
better soup than I make stew.I make very good soup. Generally
I make good stews, but I makebetter soup than I make stew. So.
But of fact is also like moredifficult to make. So I think the
(29:19):
harder the food is to make,the better I cook it. So like think
about something like bitterloop soup. I'll make a better bitter
sound. Make a bonus soupbecause one is very simple. Just
bend your money and done. Butif you have to pound it, the. The
coco yam and the fact. So forme, when it's take me a lot of work,
I have to make it worth itbecause I'm a lazy person. So I'm
(29:39):
going to sweat in this kitchenpounding apple, which is pumpkin
up or pounding cocoa yam. Ithas to be good, please. That's the
least I could do to show offthat I really put in the work.
Yeah, okay. All right. So withthis Is Love, did you go into, you
(30:02):
know, production thinking youare making a certain type of documentary
and how great was that changein terms of what you finally made?
You know, sometimes withdocumentaries you learn things on
the go and you have to pivotand change what it is you're focusing
on in the story. But how wasthat, that transition from what you
(30:25):
decided to make and what youended up making for this?
God blessed for me. Right. Butone of the things that helped because
he mentioned about seeing thedifference, one of the things that
he did was gives me this bookwhen I brought up the idea of this
Is Love. And one of the thingsin that book that I remember that
I held on to, I didn't finishreading the book. I've not finished
(30:45):
reading the book more or less.Was a part of its mention something
about documentary film, howthe story generally can go to other
places you didn't expect it toand how things could change?
Yeah.
And that's something that Ithink I like the fact that I read
because when things seem tohave changed, it was not. It was
(31:06):
easier for me to adapt to thechange because I was expecting it.
Right. And also. But I didn'talso. But also it helped me to come
my expectation. Right. Becauseyou're thinking you're going to ask
people questions, they'regoing to say this, they're going
to, they're going to say that.But the reality is you don't know
these people and it is theirstory and there's only. You're only
(31:29):
working with the story they'vetold you. Right. I think the book
also mentioned that sometimes,sometimes the story depends on who
is telling it in terms of the.Who the character is. Because if
you have characters that arevery interesting, they're going to
tell very interesting story.Opposed characters who are not very
interesting. I'm talking aboutinteresting as their personality,
not so much about the storyhere. So I also think I'm happy that
(31:51):
I knew that much before I wentin because if I didn't know that,
maybe I would have also beenfrustrated about what I got. But
these are people. And also italso made me a little more open to
even expect in terms of what Iexpected. Right. Because these are
people and people are going toreveal themselves to you in the way
(32:13):
they could or in the way theyare comfortable too. And there is
nothing anybody is going to doabout it. So yes, there will be a
lot of changes when I started,right. Because this is going to myself
problematic. But because I wastrying to make this story to be as
I wanted a story that wasaspiratory. But because I think romance
(32:39):
is aspiratory as a concept.This is a romance story as much as
a documentary. For me, it's aromance story. So romance as a concept
is aspiratory. So I want it tobe as aspiratory as possible. And
one of the things that makesus especially if given the Nigerian
background where there ismoney is a big problem. And also
you fear concerns aboutqueerness or gay people, gay people's
(32:59):
experiences where people aretrying to equate as choice people
make for money. So at the onstart I wanted a story that had particularly
people who were doing well oncertain financial aspect so that
nobody would ever dream ofsaying that they are. These people
are gay, lesbian or what orany of the letters of the Alphabet
(33:24):
just because they are tryingto make money. But then you begin
to do more research and alsoyou have to come to terms with the
reality of it. Right. Andbased on also trying to just be honest
about what could happen. Iknew that that is a bit of a taller
order. It's a bit of a tallorder because how do I find these
(33:44):
people? Who are these people?I'm not saying that we are doing
this because we couldn't findthem, but also it's like it just
also increases the bar. Butalso it also means that we're going
to remove ourselves from theexperience of just the average Nigerian
because the average Nigerianis not that successful. And I think
also coming to that realitywas a very good thing because now
(34:06):
I was a little. We became alittle more open that this is actually
a documentary. And indocumentary story about queerness,
a queer person is allowed tobe broke, a corporate person is allowed
to be whatever. And this isnot to say that they are not be successful.
Yes, but I don't think notbeing successful in the way they
are doing so much much have somuch money does not make their story
(34:26):
less important. Right. And Ithink that was a very big shift we
had to make where we allowedmore people to be open. And I can
tell you also it's that choicealso was good because we now have
people with differentfinancial ranges. And I think at
least there one or two peoplein that documentary. If I had the
kind of money they have, I'llbe fine. But. And it's not like they
(34:49):
are very rich. But you alsoget my point. They're doing well
for themselves. Most of themhave a career, which is what we made
sure we insisted on at the endof the way we try to adjust the reality.
We had to also be at least ifyou have something that brings them
money. Right. So again,because we wanted to make sure as
much as people are not sayingthis is what this person is gay,
this person is lesbian, thisperson is anything just because they're
(35:11):
trying to make money. So thatwas the bearers that was at least
like the only limit we placedon it. So this someone that makes
their own money regardless ofhow much or how little it is. And
then we start we found thepeople and it was important from
the good that is there was agay couple and there was a lesbian
(35:32):
couple. That was another thingwe set out for. Now the third couple,
even though wanted to take canbe anything. So in that regard we
had something better. We hadnow a trans man and a CIS woman who
in a relationship that was athing of if it happened that would
have been great. And ithappened. But for us it was a product
about this gay lesbian andthen whatever else and so those are
(35:56):
part of the changes thathappened. Again, I couldn't control
the stories they told. Right.I didn't ask anybody what story they
were going to tell, but theonly thing we did was we talked to
them before the film and gotto have an idea of who they were
and what to expect to anextent. But obviously we couldn't
predict everything. I don'tknow if that answers the question.
(36:18):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it does.Another thing is how were you able
to get them to like, trulyopen up? You know, because there
are times where, you know, youhave planned your documentary and
you're there and what you'rehearing is just really disappointing.
(36:38):
And I mean, it's quiteimportant that you know your characters
or the focus of yourdocumentaries, you know, trust you
to tell their story and reallyopen up and, you know, show should
show their world. So how didyou kind of achieve that with this
(37:00):
is Love?
So I think it's just honesty.I. That sounds a little too simplistic,
but when we met the peoplethat were supposed to be on the project,
I think we were honest withthem. And one of the parts we did,
one of the things we didbecause we understood the nature
of the documentary, everybodyon the documentary signed an NDA.
(37:22):
And the reason we signed it,we also have to explain it. We trust
your partner, we trust yourpartner, but we also want to make
sure that even if anythinggoes wrong, your partner is still
held bound to not reveal youridentity, which is one of the reasons
they had to sign the NDA. Sothe NDA was just not just to protect
them, but not just protectthem as a couple, but to protect
(37:44):
them as individuals. And wemade sure we clarified that and that's
part of the contract. Andhopefully if, God forbid, they break
up, hopefully nobody's goingto try to go against it. But the
idea was to make sure thateverybody feels protected as individuals
and as a couple. And weexplain this is important for you
to do this right? Andthankfully they bought into it. But
(38:07):
also beyond even having thatwritten agreement where we clarify
why it is important to dothis, it's also the fact that we
explained the idea what iswhat we're trying to do. This is
why we need you as a person tocome on board and then what is comfortable
for you? What would you wantus to talk about? So even some of
(38:27):
the steam build up was aconversation that we had with these
people about the things theywanted to do. Again, we can admit
that we would have done a lotmore things if we didn't have to
consider the fact thatshooting on the street of Lagos is
a lot of risk. And that was arisk I was particularly not willing
to take. I don't think as muchas I think we have a very important
(38:51):
story. The safety of the sixpeople whose stories we've told is
more important than the story.I was not going to take any chance
that is going to put someoneat risk. Not even at the risk of.
Not even the risk of beingbullied. Let's more a risk of actually
being attacked. So we wantedto show things in public and we discussed
(39:12):
it. But the reality we had toalso talk about. These are the risk
involved and how much of itare you willing to take. And particularly
for the couple that wasn'twearing masks. Because I knew it
was a big risk and we had todiscuss all of it and get an idea.
This is what we are trying tomake. So based on the ideas we've
gotten from them, this is howwe are going to make it work. Another
(39:36):
thing was at the start, whichI think also even answers some of
the question. The lastquestion you asked wanted to shoot
in their houses. Because wethought that was going to be more
comfortable for everybodybecause it's going to be a safe space.
But back to us talking to themas people. People who have agency
and who have the right to sayno or yes. When we brought up the
(39:57):
idea one, the first couple wespoke to said they won't do that
because it's going to. Theyare not comfortable with strangers
coming to their house.Particularly because they are women.
And yes, it's a valid concernbecause you don't know what the strangers
are capable of doing. Eventhough we expect them to be professional
after the structure show hasbeen. The production has been done.
(40:20):
So we're like that's anothergood argument. So we said we couldn't
shoot in their house, but wecould at least try to create the
scenes to look like theirhouses as much as we can afford to.
Which is what we try to do.Add elements from their houses in
making the production the. Theset to look as much as we can from
(40:41):
what they feel comfortablewith. So we discussed with them,
we told them what we're goingto do. And then we also told them
every other person working onthe project is also signed the contracts.
Because we know these aregoing to see you. And also we assured
them we're going to have likea seminar. I think one of my regrets.
I should have documented theseminar. Not documented in terms
of recording, but document thematerial I used. So we Had a little
(41:06):
seminar about queer awarenesswith the people who we, the crew
members. It's just a littleconversation. One, we talked about
identity, how to respectpeople boundaries, what not to say,
what to say again, becauseeven though we trusted those people,
(41:29):
I don't like living things forchance. And I told the cast, we are
going to do this. You're goingto talk to the cast to make sure
you have. Nobody saysanything. At least we had to make
sure we did it. And we spoketo all the crew members, everybody
that was going to see the caston the production. We spoke to them
about respect, identity. It'sjust. It was a brief meeting. It
was not something elaborate.And we had this conversation because
(41:52):
we didn't want C to be asituation where nobody says they
didn't understand. And I'mhappy we did because they were respectful
on set. Even the crew membersconfirmed, the cast confirmed how
they were well treated. Nobodysaid anything wrong. And being again
that we had three women onset, we also introduced the production
(42:12):
manager, who is a woman ontime to these people because she
was going to be in contactwith them. And it was partly important
to have a woman on theproduction because the two directors
are men, the three producersare men, and we were the first contact.
And the casting director whogot. Who found these people was a
man. So it was. You shouldunderstand, given this world we live
(42:36):
in, why a woman may not bevery comfortable. So we also made
sure they met the productionmanager on time, who is a woman,
to also as they would as toreduce whatever doubts they might
have about their securityconcerns. And we also made the production
manager like the contactperson for anything going wrong.
(42:57):
So. Because I think it's alsoeasier for people to talk to men
than they talk to women. And Ithink that's part of the things we
did to build trust. You know,one of the cast eventually called
me class captain because ofhow I was going on and on and on
and on. And I think. I thinkat the point, it also made me realize
that maybe I should calm down.But I think it was proof that I was
(43:18):
doing something that wastrying to really show that I cared.
Because Class Captain is likebasically saying, yeah, maybe you're
doing too much. He meant thatas a joke, but I think I got it too.
And I think it was. It's partof the science that we really tried
to respect them. And yeah,yeah, I mean, I mean.
(43:38):
Well done on, you know,creating a safe space for, you know,
your. Your contributors to,you know, be themselves. So ask what
was the Plan with thedistribution. Is it available to
what watch? Did you submit itto festivals?
Yes, we were. We submitted tofestivals. We didn't have as much
(44:01):
success as we expected, but wewere at a few festivals. We won an
award in a festival in Braziland we are live on a streaming platform
called Guide Doc. Guide has toguide someone and then doc as short
for documentary writtentogether. And it's a documentary
(44:22):
only streaming service thatis. It's available everywhere in
the world. So anybody couldwatch in Nigeria, in the uk, in Germany
or wherever in the world theperson is. Yeah, but it's also like
a very strict. A smallstreaming platform. But at some point
I think we might have to makeit available on YouTube because for
me it's also very importantthat it is something that every Nigerians
(44:45):
could easily access. And sothere's also plan about making that
work at some point.
Okay. Yeah. At this point.Want you to share a film like your
favorite film. Whether it'sfilm or series. Which film has a
(45:06):
special place in your heart?
You won't believe the film I'mgoing to share, but I'm going to
share it anyway. One of myfavorite films is. Why am I forgetting
the name? Pretty Woman. PrettyWoman. I need to watch. Have I watched
it this year? I used to watch,I think for a while I watched it
almost every year. At leastonce I stopped but I went back to
(45:27):
it. I think I've watched it atleast once this year too. I don't
know. And then there is DevilWears Prada also I'm a big fan of
Devil Wears Prada. I also oneof those movies I watch a lot like
almost yearly tradition kindof thing. And for the first time
last year I saw this series.It's an old series from 1980 something.
It's called the Golden Girls.And I tell you what, that's one of
(45:52):
the best I've seen on TV againbecause I remember seeing someone
talk about how the continuityis flopped and all of that. Like
every film, it has its serieshas its problems. But I love the
series a little too much also.It's like it breaks me comfortable.
Actually I was telling afriend recently, if someone is going
to like this is love the way Ilove Golden Girls. I'll feel like
(46:13):
I've succeeded in life becauseI was. There was a time in my life
last year I was going througha tough time. I couldn't sleep. It
sounds like a miracle, but Iwas not sure what to do. So this
day I played Golden Girls. Iwas able to sleep for Like a week
I couldn't sleep withoutplaying Golden Girls. And that's
(46:33):
how much comfort it brings tome. Of course I have to win myself
out of it, but. Yes. So it'snot any of the big films anybody
would expect, but these arefilms I love. I love films that are
just light. And I'm also a bigfan of romance.
Romance is kind of the guidingthread through the films you mentioned.
Yeah, I'm a big fan ofromance. Yeah. But Golden Dust is
(46:55):
not necessarily romance. Ifso, Gave Way is not romance. But
I love romance. I'm justsaying. I just need to say it. I
love romance.
Okay. What are you working on?Do you have a project coming up?
What should we expect from Victor?
Me? I don't know, actually, atthis moment. I don't know. At the
moment, there's no project inthe works. I was so sure I was going
(47:18):
to do something this year, butwe didn't get to it. But there are
a few ideas of documentariesthat I have written down, sketches
and all of that. We just haveto start thinking about how to bring
the next one to life. I. Atsome point, I was sure what the second
project was going to be, butright now I'm no longer sure. But
I do a few ideas. But alsothere's something I've been looking
(47:39):
to explore. I want to. I don'tthink if I'm allowed to share now,
we could talk about itpersonally. But some of things sometimes
I want to do next year and I'ma bit thrilled by it because that's
what I've ever done before. Ithas nothing to do with film, but
I'm really excited about it.So I don't think I should share about
it now, but. Because the ideais still visibly still forming. But
(48:03):
that's something I think I'mmore likely going to do last next.
Even more likely than doing afilm or there should be a film soon.
I'm not sure when.
Okay. All right. Before we getto how we can keep up with your work,
can you talk about. Yeah, Imean, at the beginning of the interview,
you mentioned, you know, beingon your first film set. It was quite
(48:26):
disorganized. There are a lotof things that you felt could be
better. Having made yourdocumentary, worked on other projects,
and I guess followed industrynews a bit for you. What do you feel
as an industry we should beprioritizing and improving. You know,
like, there are a lot ofthings that are going good for us
(48:48):
and there are a lot of thingsthat are not so great for you what
do you think we need to befocusing on to, you know, kind of,
I guess, level up to improvewhat we make as an industry?
I think the story. The story.I don't want to say too much, but
I think the story, a lot ofthem have holes in them and yeah,
(49:13):
some of them have beautifulideas, but the story could be simplified
and more focused and just somuch better. And there's a lot of
gap between Africanliterature, Nigerian literature,
and the film. When you readAfrica, a book by Nigerian writers,
it is clear that Nigerians cantell good stories. But when you watch
(49:35):
a Nollywood film.
Yeah.
Sometimes you are not sure.Sure what's going on. So we should
write better stories. I thinkthen. Language is another thing that
happens in Nollywood thatstresses my life out. Within the
last couple of years, we'veseen more films with of local languages
done in local languages, whichis very beautiful. I can speak on
(49:59):
as an evil person. There wasthis film that trended last year,
and I was watching it and Icouldn't stop but wonder why everybody
in the film spoke Igbo in adifferent dialect. Again, I live
in the. I grew up in the East.I knew sometimes you meet people
(50:20):
with different dialects fromthe place that you live in. But it
is not so random as it is in afilm where nobody, no two people
were speaking the samedialect. In this film, and it's even
worse. The movie is cast. Theperson, the Parker, speaks a different
dialect from the city themovie was cast or the city the. The
place they told us he camefrom. Again, it can't be that hard
(50:43):
to find. I'm a big fan of.It's okay. The actor is not allowed
to be popular. Find actors. Ifyou go to that city where the movie
is, you can find people whocould do the film. Again, that sounds
like I'm not being practicalabout the economic things of things.
The movie doesn't have to beIgbo. Make it an English film. Quite
(51:05):
frankly, if you really cannotdo this little work, because if you're
trying to draw this, we wantit to be language, the least you
could do make it make sense.Because the thing about is it's okay
to see all the dialects, butwhen people speak in different dialects,
even with such a multiple,it's such a dialectical language,
right. In Anambra state alone,there are about 50 dialects. It's
(51:25):
just a small state. So if youhear this amalgamation of dialect,
sometimes it can be confusing.It's just hard to fall. It's distracting.
And maybe I'M being a littlebit nitpicky, but that's my experience.
I'm not saying dialect isbetter than the other, but it could
be a little more coordinationin that regard. If family. Everybody's
(51:46):
speaking different dialects.Okay, my family speak different dialects,
but it's not so common that ithappens. So I'm just saying there
could be more coordination inthe language. I don't know what it
is like in the Yoruba culture,but I can speak about Ebo culture.
It's possible that we couldmaybe people learn dialects too.
Just maybe make it a littlemore aligned. Right. And then this
(52:06):
accents that people use, thisis not like I'm complaining. There's
this accent that people dowhen they just put that evil character
is supposed to be a rich manand suddenly this have this accent.
That is not an Igbo accent. Ithink everybody should stop it. It's
2025. That accent is not evenrelevant to the story. So why are
we having this person making amess of themselves all in a bit of
(52:29):
having an accent thatsometimes supposed to be realistic.
I think everybody shouldreally reign it in if you want an
accent. I think an accent ofan evil person is an Igbo accent.
It doesn't matter if it soundsa little American, even though. Because
we all don't have the sameaccent. Even in the East. I grew
up in the East. I've hadpeople who speak different accents
and they all grew up in theEast. So expecting someone to suddenly
(52:52):
know how to say their hoursjust because they are in a movie,
it's a little too much. It's2025. Nobody sounds like that. And.
But again, the core thing ofNollywood. I'm sorry. Is. Sorry.
Beautiful stories. Every otherthing is going to fall in place,
I think.
Okay. All right. So, you know,with this project you might start
(53:15):
next year. Like, how canpeople keep up with, you know, things?
You're working on your otherprojects. You have social media,
a website.
I don't have a website, but Iam on Instagram and on Twitter, on
LinkedIn, even though I'mtrying to use all of them less than
I do at the moment. But I'm.You could just go search my name
on the platform. It's the sameVictor Gonjok or you'll find me.
(53:37):
Ugo is usually written withdouble O because most people don't.
But I write mine with doubleO, so I don't know. I think that's
how I could be found on social media.
All right, thank you, Victor,for you know, sharing your process
and the making of this is love.
Thank you for having me.
(53:58):
We have come to the end ofthis episode. Remember to rate and
review the the podcast. Youcan also follow me on Instagram,
Facebook and X at SelectorFilm and the podcast at Niger filmpod.
You can now support thepodcast by clicking on the link in
the show notes. See you on thenext episode. Have a good one.
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