If you have taken iron supplements for months and your ferritin still is not coming up, there is a physiological reason for that. And it is not your fault.
A study published in The Lancet Haematology found that taking iron supplements on consecutive days actually blocks absorption due to a hormone called hepcidin, and that alternate-day dosing improved iron uptake by 40 to 50%. This is one of the most practically useful pieces of research the show has covered, and Leanne and Susie break it down clearly so you know exactly what to do differently.
This week also includes a straight-talking collagen segment, the fibre maxing trend assessed honestly, and a review of the new Woolworths high-protein meal range.
In this episode:
- The fibre maxing trend on TikTok and Instagram: why Leanne and Susie actually support the idea, what most people get wrong about increasing fibre too quickly, and why processed fibre from bars and wraps is not the same as fibre from whole foods
- Why consistency with fibre matters more than volume, what happens to your gut during travel and weekend eating, and the three things that need to work together for good digestive health
- The Lancet Haematology iron absorption study: what hepcidin is, why it blocks iron absorption for 24 hours after a high dose, and why taking iron every day may actually be preventing your levels from improving
- Why alternate-day iron supplementation improved absorption by 40 to 50% compared to daily dosing, and the practical implication for how much to take and when
- Whether an iron infusion is still preferable for people who struggle with oral supplements, why follow-up blood tests are essential, and the one mistake Leanne sees women make once they start feeling slightly better
- The new Woolworths Teriyaki Chicken Bowl reviewed: 35 grams of protein at $12, brown rice, edamame, and quinoa, what a client who tried it actually said, and whether frozen meals might genuinely be the better option in this category
- The collagen evidence honestly assessed: what the research actually shows for skin, joints, and wrinkle depth, why you need to take it daily for 8 to 12 weeks to see results, and the specific trademarked peptide called Verisol that has the most clinical research behind it
- Why marine collagen is not superior to bovine collagen despite what you have seen online, how much you need for skin versus joint health, and why some brands charging $80 to $90 are not giving you anything better than a well-formulated $37 option
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Have you had low iron before? Have you taken your
iron supplements? Then notice that your iron levels never actually improved.
On today's episode of The Nutrition Couch, we deep dive
iron supplementation and discuss the factors that impact how well
your iron is absorbed in the body.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hi, I'm Leanne.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Ward and I'm Sissy Burrow, and together we bring.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You The Nutrition Couch, the weekly.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Podcast that keeps you up to date with everything that
you need to know in the world of nutrition as
well as all things iron absorption. We also talk the
trend of fibermaxing. We have a brand new Woolli's meal
on the go to review, and our listener question is
all about the evidence and truth behind collagen supplementation. But
to kick us up today, Susie, we are chatting fibermaxing
(00:44):
and it is quite the trend. I've seen it all
over social media, all over TikTok, all over Instagram, and
I don't mind it. And you will rarely ever hear
me saying that I don't mind a social media nutrition trend,
But this is one of those ones that I actually
quite like because basically, what the fibermaxing trend is is
it's deliberately trying to encourage people to actually increase their
(01:06):
fiber intake by adding more things like legumes, whole grains, vegetables, fruits,
nuts and seeds to their meals and to their day.
So you know, this is actually a very real problem
when we look at the nutrition landscape, Ninety something plus
percent of people in Australia are not eating enough vegetables
and they're very likely not eating enough fiber either, so
we know that fiber intake needs improving. The fibermaxing trenders
(01:30):
I think basically talking about how to increase your fiber
intake as much as you possibly can, But there are
some little nuances to that that I just wanted to
talk about on the podcast because I do think that
people need to deliberately increase the amount of vegetables they eat,
whole grains, legumes, nuts and seeds. So I think most
dieticians actually agree with this trend because we do fall
(01:50):
well short of our recommended fiber intakes, and we know
that fiber is really important from a gut health perspective.
It helps to manage cholesterol, blood sugar control, and theres
actually a lot of research in terms of people who
have adequate the whole food. Fiber intakes can help prevent
some long term chronic diseases as well, but more fiber
isn't always better, particularly for those people with quite sensitive tumbies.
(02:13):
And I believe that the average Australian gets in around
sort of fifteen grams of fiber. So if you're trying
to go from fifteen grams of fiber to like fifty
grams of fiber overnight, that is not.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Going to end well.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I can promise you that you were going to be
very bloated, very uncomfortable, probably quite gassy, and not wanting
to be in a contained room with other people. So
you've got to go low, and you've got to go slow.
You've got to start with your fiber and gradually increase
it slowly, and then you need to add enough water
in because if you're adding a ton of fiber and
you're not adding enough water in, you are going to
(02:45):
be very, very uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
You're probably just going to make things worse.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So that is the first point I really really want
to drive home for our nutrition catch listeners that yes,
fiber is super important, but do not increase it too quickly.
Do not go from you know, ten, twelve, fifteen grams
of fiber up to fifty overnight, it will end badly.
I promise you that, and make sure that you have
enough fluids. Now, the type of fiber also matters, because
I believe Susie was it. A few episodes ago we
(03:11):
reviewed one of the fiber wraps and it had like
sixteen grams of fiber in a tiny, small, mini white wrap.
Like not a great idea. So really make sure that
that fiber is coming from whole food sources as much
as possible. Yes, you can use things like celium hust
meta musle to get that fiber intake up, but I
certainly would not be getting in you know, thirty grams
(03:32):
of celium husts and then you know increasing, you know,
a tin of beans and legumes, a couple of slices
of grainy bread, you know, four queue fruits.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
All in one day. Because you're not it's just it's
gonna bad leave.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I think what I say with fiber is people have
incredibly low amounts one day and then super lowd the next.
So forgetting that, it's about consistency with digestive healths. So
a classic example is when you go traveling and all
of a sudden, you get terribly constipated because you've gone
from eating your regular diet with fresh food and fresh fruits,
and you're on a flight for twenty four hours and
(04:04):
eating plain food which was notoriously low in dietary fiber.
It's stop people using the bathrooms too much, so you've
got lots of white rice and playing chicken kind of meals.
And then the snacks are things like potato chips and
biscuits and ice cream, so you're not getting that fresh
food bulk, and then you become dehydrated and of course
not moving. And that's the tree ad for terrible gut health.
And what I see with busy people is similar. You know,
(04:25):
they're good on the days they're at home and having vegetables,
and then suddenly they're at an event and they're all
at a conference or traveling or at an early morning flight,
and they skip their regular whole grain bread and cereal
for something like a protein shake or just coffee. They're
having catered lunches, which is sort of notorious for low
fiber options like sushi or white bread and white wraps
(04:47):
on cakes and biscuits as the snacks, not a lot
of fresh food or at the Quantus club with the
cheese and crackers, and then you know the dinners are
eating out, and when you go to a restaurant or
even catered food cannot past the mostly low in fiber.
So all of a sudden, your poor gut goes from
having a certain amount to very low, and we wonder
why everything slows down. And on top of that, we
(05:07):
drink alcohol because we're socializing or traveling, not drinking enough fluid,
and we're not doing our regular exercise. And again, these
are the three things, and what I often see with
my clients is that they're all of a sudden stressed
because they're not going to the bathroom as frequently. They're bloated,
and then then they super load the fiber as you describe,
so they're having four Kiwi fruit and then they're having
a bowl of bran and a bowl of vegetable soup
and all these beans, and it just compacts in and
(05:30):
nothing's working. So you're much better to do it consistently.
And one thing I've always done when I travel, funnily enough,
is that I'll always have brand when I go away,
Like I'll just start with the cereal when I get
there to stop getting clogged up. I try not to
eat a whole lot on planes because I find it
makes it worse. I always have a soup before I go.
So there's certainly some strategies that you can implement when
you are traveling, but just being mindful that it's those
(05:52):
three things you require. It's not about more and more
and more. It's about getting the right types of fiber.
Keeping in mind there's different types of fiber in cooked
vegetables versus raw vegetables. Making sure you're getting the high
fiber fruits, making sure you're getting a lot of fluid,
and some good quality type of brand or whole grain
bread cereals, not just loading up on beans for example,
(06:12):
a whole mix of options. But you need to have
plenty of fluid, and sometimes the best thing is going
to the gym or going for a run to get
everything moving. So it's the three tiered approach rather than
just I've got clients who definitely just super loads. So yeah,
I think it's a really interesting trend, but I would
prefer people to just be consistent with it and be
mindful that when you're going to a cafe, you're not
getting much fiber from a sour dough bread. When you're
(06:34):
picking up food on the run and you're having fish
bowl which is incredibly popular at the moment, or you're
having wraps or you're having salads away from the home,
you're often not getting that great quality fiber. So if
you haven't had a fiber rich meal at lunchtime, making
a concerted effort to add a soup in or have
cooked vegetables at night are just things we automatically should
be doing, because I would much rather somebody have twenty
(06:55):
five grams of fiber every day than fifty one day
and twenty your ten the next. And that's what I
notice tend to happen, particularly over the weekends when people
are having the bunting sausages or the cannapas, the pizza.
The fiber intake goes from good to really low really quickly,
and that will absolutely have an impact on your digestive
health and regularity.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, and people notice it on Monday, you know, we
always get comments from clients saying, my bowels are all
over the place, what's happening? And it is just that
consistency with weekend eating. So as dietitians, we are certainly
very supportive. We want all the strains to eat more
fibers and all of our listeners to eat more fiber.
But rather than fiber maxing, we want to call it
being fiber smart, don't we being fiber consistent. We want
(07:37):
you to focus on more plants, more legumes, more nuts
and seeds, more variety, more water, more whole foods, and
build it up gradually and do it consistently and your
gut will thank you rather than hating you from going
from ten grams to fifty grams back down to ten
grams a day.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
And we've forgot the most important thing that we talk
about all the time. The fiber in formulated food is
not the same. So when you see these mega rab
with this process fiber or even snack bars packed full
of chickory root and what are the others that they
stick in there?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Inulin and the tapiocre starch, And yes it has some benefit,
but really, when you look at the research around the
health benefits and the reduction in chronic disease and the
support that you get from a gut microbio perspective, it's
really it's the whole foods. It's the legumes and nuts
of seeds like actually add some beans into your dinner.
If you're making a spaghetti, put a tin of lentils in.
(08:28):
If you're making Mexican, add some black beans. That is
the type of fiber that you want. We don't want
twelve grams of fiber coming from a protein bar or
fifteen grams of fiber from your breakfast granola. It's probably
going to do your gut, you know, worse than could
because you're going to be so bloated and gassy for
so many people. So focus on real food when it
comes to increasing your fiber and you will be a
(08:49):
lot happier for it.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
And if you're seeing these products like the wraps we
talked about that have got you know, ten, twelve, fifteen grams,
it's too much in one sitting and straight away we
know that's process fiber and not as good for you.
So just stick to the natural sources all right ly.
And we're excited, aren't we? Has dieticians. We don't get
that excited very often. It's actually in my career, because
I've worked a long time now, it's very.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Rare that I see something that excites me. It's very rare.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
I see research and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's new
and this I had actually not seen this before, which
is I probably should have but super interesting. But I
came up on Instagram because at the moment, my feeds
filled with all things iron deficiency, and it was actually
something I hadn't seen before. I thought it was fascinating,
as did you when I sent it to you. So
we desperately wanted to talk about it on the Nutrition
(09:34):
Couch because we've spoken a few weeks ago about iron
and low ferritin and this is a fascinating study that
will make things a little bit clearer why perhaps you
have supplemented with iron before and perhaps not had the
best results. So it's a study published in a very
reputable journal, the Lancet Hematology, way back in twenty seventeen,
so this certainly isn't new. And the title, I'm going
(09:55):
to read it because it's a very strong study, and
it's called iron absorption from oral iron supplements given on
consecutive versus alternate days and as a single morning dose
versus twice daily split dosing in iron depleted women to
open label randomized control trials. So this is a very
very well designed study and to put it into Layman's terms.
(10:19):
It's basically comparing the effect of iron uptaking the body
of a group of women who had low, extremely low
ferretin levels.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
So we spoke about this the other day.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
So their ferretin I think was under twenty five and
I think the ranges like fifty to two hundred, So
they were way way low in ferretin. And that's my
concern when I see women who are particularly low in ferretin.
And basically what they were looking at was the effective absorption.
So given quite high amounts of iron sixty milligrams at
(10:51):
a set time each day on consecutive days for fourteen days,
and the other group was given the same dose but
on alternate days for double the amount of time, and
it was randomly controlled. So it was all a very
very well designed study. Now, what the study is looking
at and what I actually want to talk about, we'll
talk about the results in a second. Basically, Physiologically, what
(11:13):
happens when the body is trying to absorb iron, A
lot of it comes down to the role of a
peptide hormone called hepsidon hepsidon hahgp hepsidon hgpc id I
in hepsidon. I call it Leam would say hepsidon. She
is from Queensland. They pronounce things slightly differently, but it's
the same thing. And it's basically produced by the liver
(11:36):
and it acts as the master regulator of iron homeostasis,
so it's basically managing our iron levels. And interestingly and
people with hemochromatosis they don't have that, and hence they're
more likely to iron overload, which is fascinating physiologically they're
missing it. So basically it's telling the liver how much to.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Absorb or not.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
But it's got a couple of mechanisms that can impact
the way that we absorb iron, so basically all different things.
If you've got infection, for example, it can block it
to allow the cells to be without ion so that
it replicates too quickly. But in the case of supplementing,
so when you've got a female who has very very
(12:18):
low ferrihin levels and she suddenly takes a really high
elemental dose as you would see in pherograd ce or
in multipher they are the supplements we use here in Australia.
When you take a very very high amount, basically this
peptide hepsidem. It triggers a temporary spike in that that
lasts for about twenty four hours and acts as a
(12:40):
block to subsequent doses, and it's like a protective mechanism
to prevent iron overload.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
So suddenly the body is like not like, oh we're low,
I need more and more.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
The basic physiology is, oh, you've got a huge amount
come in. Sixty million romes is huge, and I think
multiphas even more. I think multiphus like isn't ferrograd c
like one hundred one hundred ye, so super high amounts.
Keep in mind our idea is like fifteen eighteen or something.
So you're having amounts three, four or five times that
coming in. The body goes or hang on. I need
(13:11):
to be careful with this because I don't want to
have too much because that's also damaging to the body cell.
So it basically blocks it for twenty four hours. And
hence the recommendation from a number of GPS and rightly
so that if you are supplementing with iron and you're
very low, you need to only take it on alternate
days to avoid this reaction where you're taking it but
it's not being absorbed and actually being blocked. So back
(13:34):
to the results of the study, which were so interesting,
so interestingly land and not surprising given now we know
how that peptide.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Is it a peptide? What did I say it was?
It was a it's a hormone.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
It's a hormone now.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
So basically the differences in the alternate day group was
the total iron absorption was seventy one point four compared
to one hundred and ten, So basically, as we would expect,
it was significantly better in the group who had alternate
day supplementation. So I thought, it's not groundbreaking in the
(14:11):
sense it makes sense, but it also is a reminder
as why if you've been taking iron supplements too frequently
when your levels of ferretin are low, that you might
not have had the response that you were looking for.
And certainly it's better to split to have the dose
on alternate days for maximum absorption.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
And I think, did it say it's better to split
it as well?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
No, it's just alternate day, it's.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
All turnate days. So yeah, so that's basically why. Because
of that, So if you're on social media, you would
have seen a lot of people writing about absorption. So
the question I have leanne Are you still then better
to orally supplement versus getting in fusion? And that's I
think a question because I think if iron supplements don't
(14:53):
agree with you, you know, you get an upset stomach
from them, you find that it's really harsh on the gut,
You're probably better to get an infusion. But for whatever
reason you have difficulty getting it, you don't want to
pay because it can be an elective choice. The doctors
recommending against it. Certainly the best advice has been to
supplement and scientifically on alternate days at a reasonably high dose.
(15:14):
I prefer multi for myself, Like if I was recommending
a supplement for clients, I would go that over fair
grad Sea, but I've had some people who use ferro
grad CEA. I think that it's more important to do
it occasionally, like every second day, at a good dose,
to bring the levels up, and then you ultimately want
to be checking to make sure that it's been uptaken
by the body because for a range of different reasons,
(15:34):
sometimes iron won't be well absorbed. You might have an infection,
you might have some other things going on. You might
consume a lot of tea or coffee, that you hadn't
thought about. All those factors do have impacted the way
you're consuming it because it can block it. And I
had a listener question come up about timing of oxalates
as well, which we're going to cover in a future episode.
So yeah, I think it's just most important that you're
(15:56):
doing that follow up a month or two later to
make sure that your stores have been brought up back
to regular levels and then make a decision rather than
assuming that it's okay, because I do notice a lot
of people will come in on iron, they'll start some supplements,
they feel a bit better, and then they let it go.
But you forget, you've got to build the stores right
up again back to normal and make sure that you
maintain them with it an adequate oral intake or if
(16:18):
you know your ideal is to take a low dose
supplement long term whatever, you've got to have a plan
for it. Basically, you don't want to just hope it's
up there because you feel a bit better.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, it's super super interesting, and you know, as dieticians,
and you know, many gps have always recommended every second day,
you know, for iron supplementation, but it's good to actually
have the research to come back to you. Like you said,
it's not new. The study has been around for a
long time. It wasn't a huge, huge, huge study.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It was a great.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Design study, but there was only nineteen women, so it
wasn't huge, So it is worth a good discussion with
huge GP. But certainly, many of the gas show introlgists
I've worked within the past have always recommended second day
aren't absorption. So basically the practical implication that the study
was recommending was they're sort of saying, instead of taking
a hundred milligrams of iron every day, it may actually
be better to take two hundred milligrams of iron every
(17:04):
second day. That's a whopping dose as well, because they're
saying that the alternate day dosing improved iron absorption by
around forty to fifty percent, and that is absolutely massive.
But the big question I had when I read this,
SUSI was well, what are the GI side effects, because
surely two hundred milligrams of like elemental iron is a
huge amount every second day. But interestingly, there were no
(17:26):
like hugely significant differences in the GI side effects between
both groups. So the most common side effects from a
gashuintestinal perspective was nausea and epigastric pain for both doses,
So in both groups there were a few women who
both experienced a bit of nausea and a bit of pain,
but it was no worse in the two hundred milligram
dosing versus one hundred milligram dosing, so quite similar. And
(17:49):
I think one of the ladies had a case of
some vomiting as well, So basically the difference between the
amounts were similar from a side effect perspective, which would
for me as a dietician, if the GP was on
board and happy, I'd probably be recommending the high dose
every second day. But then we also know that iron
can be quite constipating for some people as well, so
that there brings the fiber fluid physical activity thing back
(18:13):
into play as well. So a few things to manage,
I think, but certainly worth a trial, I think if
you're someone who's consistently had low iron or you know
it takes a really really really long time for that
eriton to come up on the blood test as well,
But just really really fascinating.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Yes, And I will say the single dosing, not splitting
the dose is important too, because that impacts the peptide
that's impacting it all. So yes, single dosing, even if
it's every second day, don't split it all right, Lenn, Well,
these have got a new ready made range of meals
and I did have you noticed this?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I have noticed them. I haven't tried them, but I
have noticed them. I had a client try them.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Well.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
I have to be honest, so I've been talking about
this for a while now. I have loved what Coals
are doing in this space for a while. Unfortunately we're
not paid by either Coals or Willies. We are open
to it, but I have preferred what Coals have been
doing in a ready meal sort of pre made option
for quite some time. I think some of their coal's
finest is really good. And I had noticed Woolies were
lagging behind a bit, but they've come to the party
(19:08):
with a whole new range of ready to go meals
in the fresh food section. I don't love the packaging,
I'll be honest. I think that it's not overly attractive.
If they've got that real like the salad, sort of
that glossy plastic film with the black riding, I just
don't think it is overly appealing looking. But let's not
take away from the nutritionals. So we're going to look
at one of the products there at the moment, and certainly,
(19:29):
like many food suppliers, they are targeting a higher protein approach.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
So there's the ones we're going to look at today.
The bowls.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
There's a whole range of bowls there that are heavily
marketed as high protein with thirty five grams and I
just randomly chose the Woolworths Tariachy chicken bowl. Now, as
I said, I don't love the packaging. It's not visually
appealing to me. It retails for twelve dollars, so that's
twelve dollars for the meals. Not insignificant, not overly high,
but it's up there for Health Star rating. As we know,
(19:58):
there's issues with the Health Star ratings, so it doesn't
always give us a lot of information. If I look
at the ingredient list, which is generally what we go
to first cook brown rice thirty percent, followed by RSPCA
preof chicken twenty five. So that is a high amount
water at amame beans nine percent, and a lot of
food companies will use edto marmae to bump up the
protein a little bit. I will say that edom marmee
(20:18):
look discolored in the packet, which is not overly appealing.
Ede mama's got to be bright green, doesn't it? Otherwise
it does look like a real mushy color. Broccoli florets, carrot,
cook kinoa, three point five percent soy sauce, mirran, brown sugar,
corn starch, cheriaki seasoning, vegetable gum, acidity regulator, crushed ginger, garlic, dextros, salt,
canola oil, sesame seeds, tapioca starch, black pepper, citrus, citrus,
(20:44):
citrus fiber, and a natural preservative. So safe to say
that those things are in there, and relatively small amounts,
even though there is quite a few ingredients and additives listed.
So nutritionally perserve at three hundred and fifty grams, which
is about the size of a small frozen meal. Weight wise,
comes in at just shy of four fifty calories per serve,
(21:06):
so a decent load for a meal. Thirty five grams
of protein, which is a nice amount for that calorie load.
It's low fat seven grams of fat definitely less than
one percent saturated, fifty six grams of carbohydrate, twelve grams
of sugars less than five percent sugar overall, though coming
from those sources, Tiaki sauce is notorious for having a
bit of sugar five point two grams of dietary fiber,
(21:27):
which is not overly high for that calorie load. You'd
really want eight to ten for a meal. Seven fourteen
milligrams of sodium. Not high, not overly low. Ah, what
do we think?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Leanne?
Speaker 4 (21:37):
I wouldn't have bought this one because I didn't think
it looks very nice. It looks a bit mushy to me.
The protein is high. I think for.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Twelve dollars, is it high?
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Well, you can get a can of tuna for what
twenty grams of protein for four bucks, so it's not
overly cheap for that level of protein. I give it
a I don't know, eight out of ten. I guess
if it tastes good. We have not tried it. What
are you think?
Speaker 1 (22:00):
I fight a client who tried it, and she has
a very particular palette, and she was not impressed.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
She just said it was a bit mushy.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
And it looks to me like it looks like it's
been overcooked a little bit like it doesn't look very
like the photo on the front looks better than the
bowl itself. It does look a bit mushy, like it's
sort of been oversteamed a little bit. She wasn't that impressed,
She said she wouldn't buy it again. She did try
a few of the others in the range. She said
they were a little bit better, but I think in
her opinion, the calls one sort of come out on top.
But all of these pre made meals, they're never going
(22:31):
to be as good as making it fresh from home.
So this is they're targeting a certain busy person who
doesn't have the time or I guess they want to
cook for themselves. So there's a little bit of you know,
sacrifice that comes with that. I guess you're not going
to get chef style quality meals from the supermarket. Would
I buy it myself, No, Would I recommend it to clients, yes,
but again a certain type of client.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
A certain type of client, but someone who doesn't mind
mushy foot.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, and who doesn't want to cook and you know,
just wants to reheat something I guess is fine, and
who's not you know that particular about food and taste,
and you know, some people are really like it has
to taste amazing.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Other people are like, well.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Someone with really low standard's nice.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah, I think it's fine, but I wouldn't be rushing
out to buy it myself.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I think nutritionally it's all right.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
What I would say is this is where frozen is
better than fresh, because the thing about a lot of
the frozen meals is that they're snap frozen, so they
retain a lot of quality. So there at a marmade
doesn't look so brown and mushy. It's often looking a
lot cleaner, like a lot brighter. It actually retains a
lot more if you don't overcook it. And people always
think fresh is better. Well, fresh is better if you're
(23:40):
doing it at home, but not if it's sat in
the supermarket production line for a week before you get it.
So I'm a bit like, actually, if you're got to
have these meals, I think in a lot of instances
you better to have the frozen ones.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
I actually quite like the Woolies fresh one.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
There's a preciudo chicken, there's a salmon, there's a steak
I've recommended and use, so it's for quite some time.
They're not discimil price points and they've got cook veggies
in them, so yeah, I think there's better options, and
I don't think you should assume that frozen is inferior
nutritionally than fresh, because in that instance, you would argue
that the frozen would be better and higher in nutrients
(24:13):
because it's been snap frozen, whereas I guarantee you if
something's discolored, it's losing some of the nutrition. So yeah,
I think it's interesting and it will be interesting to
see what survives in supermarket because I think generally skews
are given three months and if they're not doing well,
they'll be out. So yeah, I think watch this space.
Will is obviously trying to come to the party with
better options, and certainly they need to because if you've
(24:34):
got overseas and spent time in whole foods in the
States or Marks and Spencer, their quality of pre made
food is beyond what we have here at the moment,
and I think we will only improve because people are
looking for more quick and easy options, particularly with the
cost of food, because for twelve dollars for thirty five
grams of protein, it is probably cheaper than buying the
chicken breast the different vegetables. That's probably going to cost
(24:55):
you close to twenty but they've got to taste good
for people to invest that kind of money. Given that
originally frozen meals were five bucks, now they're sort of
eight to ten, and it's getting into that ten plus
dollar people do expect a certain level of standard and
quality with it.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, I mean, I'd rather go to a sandwich shop
and get a beautiful fresh sandwich with all of the
salads and some lean chicken breast and a bit of avocado,
And it's certainly going to be It's pretty high protein.
Maybe not thirty five grams, but it's a lot fresheran
to me, a lot more appealing, and not really twelve
dollars either.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Oh, I mean, depending on where you go.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
I thought it was the price was quite high for it.
I thought it was probably more an eight dollar product,
So they're certainly trading on the protein aspect. Thirty five grams.
It is good, But yeah, I think that it's not
visually so appealing right now.
Speaker 5 (25:40):
They've got to do a bit of work on it.
I don't think a lot of people will be jumping
for it reaching for it. Yeah, true, true, true. Speaking
of jumping and reaching, well, what do we need to
do that. Lean college keeps our joints.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
That's beautiful and iluds wrong and fluid flex or the.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Listener question of the week, what is the evidence behind
collagen supplementation? Now, I think I've taken collagen for a
long time, probably a lot longer than you. I've always
been a bit of a fan of it and you
look twenty five. So it's working well done, and a
filter too. But I will say collagen isn't magic, right,
Collagen is not botox, no matter how much we want
(26:19):
it to be, it is not magic. However, there is
a reasonable amount of evidence behind specific hydrolyzed collagen peptides
and certain strains of them, certain brands of them, and
when taken consistently, not sporadically randomly, when you remember twice
a week, consistently by that I mean daily, the research
has shown that it can actually modestly improve important things
(26:43):
like skin elasticity, hydration, and wrinkled depth. That's where the
bulk of the strongest research lies. But you need to
take it daily for about eight to twelve weeks. That's
what the research shows. So for skin health, yes, not
for fat loss, not for hormos, not for repairing your gut,
it's not bowtop, but for skin and joint heals. Yes,
there is some good research now. The most studied collagen
(27:06):
peptides are called verasol. Now In some of the research,
Charles found that about two point five grams of verasol
collagen a day for eight weeks reduced irinkle volume and
increased different markers of dermal matrix synthesis, including procollagen type
one and elastin now it Also there was another study
that find that verasol bovine collagen in women between the
(27:30):
ages of thirty five and fifty five found that two
and a half grams of collagen daily improved wrinkle volume,
skin elasticity, and hydration after eight weeks. So there are
some systematic reviews that generally show that cardrolized collagen and
the bulk of the research has been done on austrand
called verasol. Veerisol, like I said, helps with skin hydration, elasticity,
(27:55):
and some fine lines and wrinkles, but the effect is
modest and some of the studies are on smaller site.
That is important to know. So do I like collagen overall? Yes,
it adds protein into the diet. If you're looking at
it from a joint health perspective, you need more so
for from that skin elasticity perspective, you're looking at two
and a half to five grams a day. From a
(28:15):
joint health perspective, you're looking at ten to fifteen grams
a day. Now, there's been some chatter online that like
a marine collagen is superior. The research does not show
that I personally prefer bovine collagen. But if you're not
someone who you know eats meat or something, then marine
collagen might be a better option for you.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
But it is not any better.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
It's just like people say that, you know, vegan protein
is better than way, it's actually not. The research shows
that the opposite way protein is actually better than vegan protein.
So if you were going to do it, I would
say you need to do it daily. You need to
take it for eight to twelve weeks, take some photo
see if it makes a difference. Try to find a
brand that uses verasol, because that is the most research
collagen peptide out there. A lot of brands talk a
(28:56):
big game, They charge a hell of a lot of money,
They have beautiful models modeling for them, but really we're
looking at the evidence and where the science actually lies.
And as I said, if you're going to take it
when you remember sporadically, when you feel life, get half
a dose here, half a dose there, You're probably not
going to get the best results. Because the research really
does show two point five to five grams a day
(29:18):
for eight to twelve weeks using if you can, vasol,
which is a trademarked collagen peptide.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
So that is exactly what we did when we.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Formulated out designed by Dietitian renew collagen. We used five
grams in a serve of verasol collagen. We manufacture it
in Australia. We're bound by very tight TDA regulations. It
doesn't come out of China like a lot of different
supplement brands do. And we use that viasol collagen as well.
So if you want to try it, there is some
research behind collagen and it also adds to your overall
(29:49):
protein intake for the day, So scoop of our designed
by Dietitian renew collagen actually adds about five grams of
protein to your day as well, so numerous benefits. Whether
or not you want to try it is entirely up
to you. But if you are looking at it from
a joint health perspective, I double the dose and do
ten grams a day.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (30:08):
I think that definitely when you're getting into your forties
and fifties and you start to notice that knee pain,
it's worth a try because that can be debilitating and
there is evidence for it. But it's like anything, it's
about the consistency and doing it in the right way.
And my collagen users love it, you know, they're deeply
committed to it. So yeah, it's like all supplementation, it's
(30:30):
a personal choice, but we can relate the science. And
I also think it's important. I've noticed on social media
a few doctors hopping on a bandwagon about collagen supplementation,
and I think you've also got to keep in mind
where you're getting your positioning from, because it's like with HRT.
If you see a doctor who's deeply against HRT or supplements,
(30:52):
that's the message they send, and that's also a personal
position as opposed to reporting the science. And that's what
we will do here at the Nutrition Couch. They're not
saying that that super letting collagens like botoxs are going
to make you look twenty years younger, which I think
some brands do allude to in their marketing, and they're
off their brands by people you don't. They're faceless brands
who's making them? So I think with supplements, you want
(31:13):
to make sure you're getting it from someone qualified to
be formulating, which is why we create a design by dietitians.
But I think just be wary when you get haters,
you know, doctors saying no evidence, shouldn't be having it.
And I look at some of the doctors and I think,
you don't even wear makeup, so you're not using or
promoting supplements ever, and as such, you're putting your personal
opinion on things. And my position always on supplements, it's
(31:34):
a personal choice. I can tell you what I think
has evidence behind it. I'll tell you what I take
and why, but then I let my clients go and
make an informed decision themselves. Whereas I think when you
get experts or professionals telling people what they think they
should and shouldn't do, I'm always a bit wary because
it's like, you know, what political party do you go for?
You're bringing your personal opinion on it versus actually just
(31:54):
reporting the science and letting people make an informed choice.
So yeah, if you're watching a doctor who clearly isn't
about anti aging in her presentation, she's probably not the
person to be giving commentary about college and supplementation for
whatever purpose. Because you're right, particularly when it comes to
joint health, there is evidence for it and has been
for many, many years, and as such, we have used
it with athletes, et cetera for a long time in
(32:16):
their joint rehab and recovery. In a different context, And
can I also say that just because a brand charges
a heck of a lot of money, like I've seen
College in eighteen ninety dollars, it doesn't mean it's better.
As I said, if you actually look at the clinical research,
verasol is the best most research studies strain of collagen,
and a lot of these brands aren't even using that
and they're charging ninety dollars that designed by dieticians. We
(32:38):
want the best quality research and we want fair prices
all year round. We don't inflate our prices to constantly
go on thirty or forty percent off.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
That's just not what we do. I like to think
we have integrity, Suzi, like some of the brands.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Well, we don't.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Yeah, we don't overcharge for similar you know, we charge
what we need to charge as a business, but we
don't double it just to make extra profit, which is
what you see all the time with creation and with pollogen,
which makes us very angry. And the hot chocolates I've
spoken about the eighty dollars hot chocolate. That's abominable. You know,
if ex influencers and models are selling double the active ingredient,
(33:11):
it's dodgy as and I think it is good to
be aware of that because if you want it's like
when you go to the chemist and you're looking at
the active molecule in the allergy med you know, don't
pay more for a brand name if it's the same
active ingredient. And that's the same thing with supplements. Just
buy beware because you can waste a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
And if we're using the best quality available strains of
collagen and packing and you know, actually manufacturing it in
Australia is most brands are manufacturing straight out of China,
and we can do our collagen for thirty seven dollars
a bag. You don't need to be paying ninety dollars
when some of these celebrity brands are charging, you're not
getting anything better.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
I was looking at creating in.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
I had to do a review article for Good Food
and I had to do Creatin in the supermarket, so
I actually went online to look at all the different
brands because I wanted to report. So seek German Creating
for the pure option, and none of the mainstream brands
in supermarket. We're marketing on German source Creatin, which means
(34:11):
it's all Chinese. So that's also what's going on in
the background.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah, all right, Well, little supplement chitchat for our listeners.
But that brings us to the end of another episode
of the Nutrition Catch And like we said, if you
know that your diet needs a little bit of extra
protein or creatine, or you'd like to trial some collagen,
go and check out our scientifically formulated range of supplements
at designed Bydietitians dot com. Thank you for listening, and
we will catch you in next week's podcast.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
You will have a great week.
Have you had low iron before? Have you taken your
iron supplements? Then notice that your iron levels never actually improved.
On today's episode of The Nutrition Couch, we deep dive
iron supplementation and discuss the factors that impact how well
your iron is absorbed in the body.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hi, I'm Leanne.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Ward and I'm Sissy Burrow, and together we bring.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You The Nutrition Couch, the weekly.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Podcast that keeps you up to date with everything that
you need to know in the world of nutrition as
well as all things iron absorption. We also talk the
trend of fibermaxing. We have a brand new Woolli's meal
on the go to review, and our listener question is
all about the evidence and truth behind collagen supplementation. But
to kick us up today, Susie, we are chatting fibermaxing
(00:44):
and it is quite the trend. I've seen it all
over social media, all over TikTok, all over Instagram, and
I don't mind it. And you will rarely ever hear
me saying that I don't mind a social media nutrition trend,
But this is one of those ones that I actually
quite like because basically, what the fibermaxing trend is is
it's deliberately trying to encourage people to actually increase their
(01:06):
fiber intake by adding more things like legumes, whole grains, vegetables, fruits,
nuts and seeds to their meals and to their day.
So you know, this is actually a very real problem
when we look at the nutrition landscape, Ninety something plus
percent of people in Australia are not eating enough vegetables
and they're very likely not eating enough fiber either, so
we know that fiber intake needs improving. The fibermaxing trenders
(01:30):
I think basically talking about how to increase your fiber
intake as much as you possibly can, But there are
some little nuances to that that I just wanted to
talk about on the podcast because I do think that
people need to deliberately increase the amount of vegetables they eat,
whole grains, legumes, nuts and seeds. So I think most
dieticians actually agree with this trend because we do fall
(01:50):
well short of our recommended fiber intakes, and we know
that fiber is really important from a gut health perspective.
It helps to manage cholesterol, blood sugar control, and theres
actually a lot of research in terms of people who
have adequate the whole food. Fiber intakes can help prevent
some long term chronic diseases as well, but more fiber
isn't always better, particularly for those people with quite sensitive tumbies.
(02:13):
And I believe that the average Australian gets in around
sort of fifteen grams of fiber. So if you're trying
to go from fifteen grams of fiber to like fifty
grams of fiber overnight, that is not.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Going to end well.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I can promise you that you were going to be
very bloated, very uncomfortable, probably quite gassy, and not wanting
to be in a contained room with other people. So
you've got to go low, and you've got to go slow.
You've got to start with your fiber and gradually increase
it slowly, and then you need to add enough water
in because if you're adding a ton of fiber and
you're not adding enough water in, you are going to
(02:45):
be very, very uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
You're probably just going to make things worse.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So that is the first point I really really want
to drive home for our nutrition catch listeners that yes,
fiber is super important, but do not increase it too quickly.
Do not go from you know, ten, twelve, fifteen grams
of fiber up to fifty overnight, it will end badly.
I promise you that, and make sure that you have
enough fluids. Now, the type of fiber also matters, because
I believe Susie was it. A few episodes ago we
(03:11):
reviewed one of the fiber wraps and it had like
sixteen grams of fiber in a tiny, small, mini white wrap.
Like not a great idea. So really make sure that
that fiber is coming from whole food sources as much
as possible. Yes, you can use things like celium hust
meta musle to get that fiber intake up, but I
certainly would not be getting in you know, thirty grams
(03:32):
of celium husts and then you know increasing, you know,
a tin of beans and legumes, a couple of slices
of grainy bread, you know, four queue fruits.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
All in one day. Because you're not it's just it's
gonna bad leave.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I think what I say with fiber is people have
incredibly low amounts one day and then super lowd the next.
So forgetting that, it's about consistency with digestive healths. So
a classic example is when you go traveling and all
of a sudden, you get terribly constipated because you've gone
from eating your regular diet with fresh food and fresh fruits,
and you're on a flight for twenty four hours and
(04:04):
eating plain food which was notoriously low in dietary fiber.
It's stop people using the bathrooms too much, so you've
got lots of white rice and playing chicken kind of meals.
And then the snacks are things like potato chips and
biscuits and ice cream, so you're not getting that fresh
food bulk, and then you become dehydrated and of course
not moving. And that's the tree ad for terrible gut health.
And what I see with busy people is similar. You know,
(04:25):
they're good on the days they're at home and having vegetables,
and then suddenly they're at an event and they're all
at a conference or traveling or at an early morning flight,
and they skip their regular whole grain bread and cereal
for something like a protein shake or just coffee. They're
having catered lunches, which is sort of notorious for low
fiber options like sushi or white bread and white wraps
(04:47):
on cakes and biscuits as the snacks, not a lot
of fresh food or at the Quantus club with the
cheese and crackers, and then you know the dinners are
eating out, and when you go to a restaurant or
even catered food cannot past the mostly low in fiber.
So all of a sudden, your poor gut goes from
having a certain amount to very low, and we wonder
why everything slows down. And on top of that, we
(05:07):
drink alcohol because we're socializing or traveling, not drinking enough fluid,
and we're not doing our regular exercise. And again, these
are the three things, and what I often see with
my clients is that they're all of a sudden stressed
because they're not going to the bathroom as frequently. They're bloated,
and then then they super load the fiber as you describe,
so they're having four Kiwi fruit and then they're having
a bowl of bran and a bowl of vegetable soup
and all these beans, and it just compacts in and
(05:30):
nothing's working. So you're much better to do it consistently.
And one thing I've always done when I travel, funnily enough,
is that I'll always have brand when I go away,
Like I'll just start with the cereal when I get
there to stop getting clogged up. I try not to
eat a whole lot on planes because I find it
makes it worse. I always have a soup before I go.
So there's certainly some strategies that you can implement when
you are traveling, but just being mindful that it's those
(05:52):
three things you require. It's not about more and more
and more. It's about getting the right types of fiber.
Keeping in mind there's different types of fiber in cooked
vegetables versus raw vegetables. Making sure you're getting the high
fiber fruits, making sure you're getting a lot of fluid,
and some good quality type of brand or whole grain
bread cereals, not just loading up on beans for example,
(06:12):
a whole mix of options. But you need to have
plenty of fluid, and sometimes the best thing is going
to the gym or going for a run to get
everything moving. So it's the three tiered approach rather than
just I've got clients who definitely just super loads. So yeah,
I think it's a really interesting trend, but I would
prefer people to just be consistent with it and be
mindful that when you're going to a cafe, you're not
getting much fiber from a sour dough bread. When you're
(06:34):
picking up food on the run and you're having fish
bowl which is incredibly popular at the moment, or you're
having wraps or you're having salads away from the home,
you're often not getting that great quality fiber. So if
you haven't had a fiber rich meal at lunchtime, making
a concerted effort to add a soup in or have
cooked vegetables at night are just things we automatically should
be doing, because I would much rather somebody have twenty
(06:55):
five grams of fiber every day than fifty one day
and twenty your ten the next. And that's what I
notice tend to happen, particularly over the weekends when people
are having the bunting sausages or the cannapas, the pizza.
The fiber intake goes from good to really low really quickly,
and that will absolutely have an impact on your digestive
health and regularity.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, and people notice it on Monday, you know, we
always get comments from clients saying, my bowels are all
over the place, what's happening? And it is just that
consistency with weekend eating. So as dietitians, we are certainly
very supportive. We want all the strains to eat more
fibers and all of our listeners to eat more fiber.
But rather than fiber maxing, we want to call it
being fiber smart, don't we being fiber consistent. We want
(07:37):
you to focus on more plants, more legumes, more nuts
and seeds, more variety, more water, more whole foods, and
build it up gradually and do it consistently and your
gut will thank you rather than hating you from going
from ten grams to fifty grams back down to ten
grams a day.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
And we've forgot the most important thing that we talk
about all the time. The fiber in formulated food is
not the same. So when you see these mega rab
with this process fiber or even snack bars packed full
of chickory root and what are the others that they
stick in there?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Inulin and the tapiocre starch, And yes it has some benefit,
but really, when you look at the research around the
health benefits and the reduction in chronic disease and the
support that you get from a gut microbio perspective, it's
really it's the whole foods. It's the legumes and nuts
of seeds like actually add some beans into your dinner.
If you're making a spaghetti, put a tin of lentils in.
(08:28):
If you're making Mexican, add some black beans. That is
the type of fiber that you want. We don't want
twelve grams of fiber coming from a protein bar or
fifteen grams of fiber from your breakfast granola. It's probably
going to do your gut, you know, worse than could
because you're going to be so bloated and gassy for
so many people. So focus on real food when it
comes to increasing your fiber and you will be a
(08:49):
lot happier for it.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
And if you're seeing these products like the wraps we
talked about that have got you know, ten, twelve, fifteen grams,
it's too much in one sitting and straight away we
know that's process fiber and not as good for you.
So just stick to the natural sources all right ly.
And we're excited, aren't we? Has dieticians. We don't get
that excited very often. It's actually in my career, because
I've worked a long time now, it's very.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Rare that I see something that excites me. It's very rare.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
I see research and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's new
and this I had actually not seen this before, which
is I probably should have but super interesting. But I
came up on Instagram because at the moment, my feeds
filled with all things iron deficiency, and it was actually
something I hadn't seen before. I thought it was fascinating,
as did you when I sent it to you. So
we desperately wanted to talk about it on the Nutrition
(09:34):
Couch because we've spoken a few weeks ago about iron
and low ferritin and this is a fascinating study that
will make things a little bit clearer why perhaps you
have supplemented with iron before and perhaps not had the
best results. So it's a study published in a very
reputable journal, the Lancet Hematology, way back in twenty seventeen,
so this certainly isn't new. And the title, I'm going
(09:55):
to read it because it's a very strong study, and
it's called iron absorption from oral iron supplements given on
consecutive versus alternate days and as a single morning dose
versus twice daily split dosing in iron depleted women to
open label randomized control trials. So this is a very
very well designed study and to put it into Layman's terms.
(10:19):
It's basically comparing the effect of iron uptaking the body
of a group of women who had low, extremely low
ferretin levels.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
So we spoke about this the other day.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
So their ferretin I think was under twenty five and
I think the ranges like fifty to two hundred, So
they were way way low in ferretin. And that's my
concern when I see women who are particularly low in ferretin.
And basically what they were looking at was the effective absorption.
So given quite high amounts of iron sixty milligrams at
(10:51):
a set time each day on consecutive days for fourteen days,
and the other group was given the same dose but
on alternate days for double the amount of time, and
it was randomly controlled. So it was all a very
very well designed study. Now, what the study is looking
at and what I actually want to talk about, we'll
talk about the results in a second. Basically, Physiologically, what
(11:13):
happens when the body is trying to absorb iron, A
lot of it comes down to the role of a
peptide hormone called hepsidon hepsidon hahgp hepsidon hgpc id I
in hepsidon. I call it Leam would say hepsidon. She
is from Queensland. They pronounce things slightly differently, but it's
the same thing. And it's basically produced by the liver
(11:36):
and it acts as the master regulator of iron homeostasis,
so it's basically managing our iron levels. And interestingly and
people with hemochromatosis they don't have that, and hence they're
more likely to iron overload, which is fascinating physiologically they're
missing it. So basically it's telling the liver how much to.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Absorb or not.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
But it's got a couple of mechanisms that can impact
the way that we absorb iron, so basically all different things.
If you've got infection, for example, it can block it
to allow the cells to be without ion so that
it replicates too quickly. But in the case of supplementing,
so when you've got a female who has very very
(12:18):
low ferrihin levels and she suddenly takes a really high
elemental dose as you would see in pherograd ce or
in multipher they are the supplements we use here in Australia.
When you take a very very high amount, basically this
peptide hepsidem. It triggers a temporary spike in that that
lasts for about twenty four hours and acts as a
(12:40):
block to subsequent doses, and it's like a protective mechanism
to prevent iron overload.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
So suddenly the body is like not like, oh we're low,
I need more and more.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
The basic physiology is, oh, you've got a huge amount
come in. Sixty million romes is huge, and I think
multiphas even more. I think multiphus like isn't ferrograd c
like one hundred one hundred ye, so super high amounts.
Keep in mind our idea is like fifteen eighteen or something.
So you're having amounts three, four or five times that
coming in. The body goes or hang on. I need
(13:11):
to be careful with this because I don't want to
have too much because that's also damaging to the body cell.
So it basically blocks it for twenty four hours. And
hence the recommendation from a number of GPS and rightly
so that if you are supplementing with iron and you're
very low, you need to only take it on alternate
days to avoid this reaction where you're taking it but
it's not being absorbed and actually being blocked. So back
(13:34):
to the results of the study, which were so interesting,
so interestingly land and not surprising given now we know
how that peptide.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Is it a peptide? What did I say it was?
It was a it's a hormone.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
It's a hormone now.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
So basically the differences in the alternate day group was
the total iron absorption was seventy one point four compared
to one hundred and ten, So basically, as we would expect,
it was significantly better in the group who had alternate
day supplementation. So I thought, it's not groundbreaking in the
(14:11):
sense it makes sense, but it also is a reminder
as why if you've been taking iron supplements too frequently
when your levels of ferretin are low, that you might
not have had the response that you were looking for.
And certainly it's better to split to have the dose
on alternate days for maximum absorption.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
And I think, did it say it's better to split
it as well?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
No, it's just alternate day, it's.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
All turnate days. So yeah, so that's basically why. Because
of that, So if you're on social media, you would
have seen a lot of people writing about absorption. So
the question I have leanne Are you still then better
to orally supplement versus getting in fusion? And that's I
think a question because I think if iron supplements don't
(14:53):
agree with you, you know, you get an upset stomach
from them, you find that it's really harsh on the gut,
You're probably better to get an infusion. But for whatever
reason you have difficulty getting it, you don't want to
pay because it can be an elective choice. The doctors
recommending against it. Certainly the best advice has been to
supplement and scientifically on alternate days at a reasonably high dose.
(15:14):
I prefer multi for myself, Like if I was recommending
a supplement for clients, I would go that over fair
grad Sea, but I've had some people who use ferro
grad CEA. I think that it's more important to do
it occasionally, like every second day, at a good dose,
to bring the levels up, and then you ultimately want
to be checking to make sure that it's been uptaken
by the body because for a range of different reasons,
(15:34):
sometimes iron won't be well absorbed. You might have an infection,
you might have some other things going on. You might
consume a lot of tea or coffee, that you hadn't
thought about. All those factors do have impacted the way
you're consuming it because it can block it. And I
had a listener question come up about timing of oxalates
as well, which we're going to cover in a future episode.
So yeah, I think it's just most important that you're
(15:56):
doing that follow up a month or two later to
make sure that your stores have been brought up back
to regular levels and then make a decision rather than
assuming that it's okay, because I do notice a lot
of people will come in on iron, they'll start some supplements,
they feel a bit better, and then they let it go.
But you forget, you've got to build the stores right
up again back to normal and make sure that you
maintain them with it an adequate oral intake or if
(16:18):
you know your ideal is to take a low dose
supplement long term whatever, you've got to have a plan
for it. Basically, you don't want to just hope it's
up there because you feel a bit better.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, it's super super interesting, and you know, as dieticians,
and you know, many gps have always recommended every second day,
you know, for iron supplementation, but it's good to actually
have the research to come back to you. Like you said,
it's not new. The study has been around for a
long time. It wasn't a huge, huge, huge study.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It was a great.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Design study, but there was only nineteen women, so it
wasn't huge, So it is worth a good discussion with
huge GP. But certainly, many of the gas show introlgists
I've worked within the past have always recommended second day
aren't absorption. So basically the practical implication that the study
was recommending was they're sort of saying, instead of taking
a hundred milligrams of iron every day, it may actually
be better to take two hundred milligrams of iron every
(17:04):
second day. That's a whopping dose as well, because they're
saying that the alternate day dosing improved iron absorption by
around forty to fifty percent, and that is absolutely massive.
But the big question I had when I read this,
SUSI was well, what are the GI side effects, because
surely two hundred milligrams of like elemental iron is a
huge amount every second day. But interestingly, there were no
(17:26):
like hugely significant differences in the GI side effects between
both groups. So the most common side effects from a
gashuintestinal perspective was nausea and epigastric pain for both doses,
So in both groups there were a few women who
both experienced a bit of nausea and a bit of pain,
but it was no worse in the two hundred milligram
dosing versus one hundred milligram dosing, so quite similar. And
(17:49):
I think one of the ladies had a case of
some vomiting as well, So basically the difference between the
amounts were similar from a side effect perspective, which would
for me as a dietician, if the GP was on
board and happy, I'd probably be recommending the high dose
every second day. But then we also know that iron
can be quite constipating for some people as well, so
that there brings the fiber fluid physical activity thing back
(18:13):
into play as well. So a few things to manage,
I think, but certainly worth a trial, I think if
you're someone who's consistently had low iron or you know
it takes a really really really long time for that
eriton to come up on the blood test as well,
But just really really fascinating.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Yes, And I will say the single dosing, not splitting
the dose is important too, because that impacts the peptide
that's impacting it all. So yes, single dosing, even if
it's every second day, don't split it all right, Lenn, Well,
these have got a new ready made range of meals
and I did have you noticed this?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I have noticed them. I haven't tried them, but I
have noticed them. I had a client try them.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Well.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
I have to be honest, so I've been talking about
this for a while now. I have loved what Coals
are doing in this space for a while. Unfortunately we're
not paid by either Coals or Willies. We are open
to it, but I have preferred what Coals have been
doing in a ready meal sort of pre made option
for quite some time. I think some of their coal's
finest is really good. And I had noticed Woolies were
lagging behind a bit, but they've come to the party
(19:08):
with a whole new range of ready to go meals
in the fresh food section. I don't love the packaging,
I'll be honest. I think that it's not overly attractive.
If they've got that real like the salad, sort of
that glossy plastic film with the black riding, I just
don't think it is overly appealing looking. But let's not
take away from the nutritionals. So we're going to look
at one of the products there at the moment, and certainly,
(19:29):
like many food suppliers, they are targeting a higher protein approach.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
So there's the ones we're going to look at today.
The bowls.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
There's a whole range of bowls there that are heavily
marketed as high protein with thirty five grams and I
just randomly chose the Woolworths Tariachy chicken bowl. Now, as
I said, I don't love the packaging. It's not visually
appealing to me. It retails for twelve dollars, so that's
twelve dollars for the meals. Not insignificant, not overly high,
but it's up there for Health Star rating. As we know,
(19:58):
there's issues with the Health Star ratings, so it doesn't
always give us a lot of information. If I look
at the ingredient list, which is generally what we go
to first cook brown rice thirty percent, followed by RSPCA
preof chicken twenty five. So that is a high amount
water at amame beans nine percent, and a lot of
food companies will use edto marmae to bump up the
protein a little bit. I will say that edom marmee
(20:18):
look discolored in the packet, which is not overly appealing.
Ede mama's got to be bright green, doesn't it? Otherwise
it does look like a real mushy color. Broccoli florets, carrot,
cook kinoa, three point five percent soy sauce, mirran, brown sugar,
corn starch, cheriaki seasoning, vegetable gum, acidity regulator, crushed ginger, garlic, dextros, salt,
canola oil, sesame seeds, tapioca starch, black pepper, citrus, citrus,
(20:44):
citrus fiber, and a natural preservative. So safe to say
that those things are in there, and relatively small amounts,
even though there is quite a few ingredients and additives listed.
So nutritionally perserve at three hundred and fifty grams, which
is about the size of a small frozen meal. Weight wise,
comes in at just shy of four fifty calories per serve,
(21:06):
so a decent load for a meal. Thirty five grams
of protein, which is a nice amount for that calorie load.
It's low fat seven grams of fat definitely less than
one percent saturated, fifty six grams of carbohydrate, twelve grams
of sugars less than five percent sugar overall, though coming
from those sources, Tiaki sauce is notorious for having a
bit of sugar five point two grams of dietary fiber,
(21:27):
which is not overly high for that calorie load. You'd
really want eight to ten for a meal. Seven fourteen
milligrams of sodium. Not high, not overly low. Ah, what
do we think?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Leanne?
Speaker 4 (21:37):
I wouldn't have bought this one because I didn't think
it looks very nice. It looks a bit mushy to me.
The protein is high. I think for.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Twelve dollars, is it high?
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Well, you can get a can of tuna for what
twenty grams of protein for four bucks, so it's not
overly cheap for that level of protein. I give it
a I don't know, eight out of ten. I guess
if it tastes good. We have not tried it. What
are you think?
Speaker 1 (22:00):
I fight a client who tried it, and she has
a very particular palette, and she was not impressed.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
She just said it was a bit mushy.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
And it looks to me like it looks like it's
been overcooked a little bit like it doesn't look very
like the photo on the front looks better than the
bowl itself. It does look a bit mushy, like it's
sort of been oversteamed a little bit. She wasn't that impressed,
She said she wouldn't buy it again. She did try
a few of the others in the range. She said
they were a little bit better, but I think in
her opinion, the calls one sort of come out on top.
But all of these pre made meals, they're never going
(22:31):
to be as good as making it fresh from home.
So this is they're targeting a certain busy person who
doesn't have the time or I guess they want to
cook for themselves. So there's a little bit of you know,
sacrifice that comes with that. I guess you're not going
to get chef style quality meals from the supermarket. Would
I buy it myself, No, Would I recommend it to clients, yes,
but again a certain type of client.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
A certain type of client, but someone who doesn't mind
mushy foot.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, and who doesn't want to cook and you know,
just wants to reheat something I guess is fine, and
who's not you know that particular about food and taste,
and you know, some people are really like it has
to taste amazing.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Other people are like, well.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Someone with really low standard's nice.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah, I think it's fine, but I wouldn't be rushing
out to buy it myself.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I think nutritionally it's all right.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
What I would say is this is where frozen is
better than fresh, because the thing about a lot of
the frozen meals is that they're snap frozen, so they
retain a lot of quality. So there at a marmade
doesn't look so brown and mushy. It's often looking a
lot cleaner, like a lot brighter. It actually retains a
lot more if you don't overcook it. And people always
think fresh is better. Well, fresh is better if you're
(23:40):
doing it at home, but not if it's sat in
the supermarket production line for a week before you get it.
So I'm a bit like, actually, if you're got to
have these meals, I think in a lot of instances
you better to have the frozen ones.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
I actually quite like the Woolies fresh one.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
There's a preciudo chicken, there's a salmon, there's a steak
I've recommended and use, so it's for quite some time.
They're not discimil price points and they've got cook veggies
in them, so yeah, I think there's better options, and
I don't think you should assume that frozen is inferior
nutritionally than fresh, because in that instance, you would argue
that the frozen would be better and higher in nutrients
(24:13):
because it's been snap frozen, whereas I guarantee you if
something's discolored, it's losing some of the nutrition. So yeah,
I think it's interesting and it will be interesting to
see what survives in supermarket because I think generally skews
are given three months and if they're not doing well,
they'll be out. So yeah, I think watch this space.
Will is obviously trying to come to the party with
better options, and certainly they need to because if you've
(24:34):
got overseas and spent time in whole foods in the
States or Marks and Spencer, their quality of pre made
food is beyond what we have here at the moment,
and I think we will only improve because people are
looking for more quick and easy options, particularly with the
cost of food, because for twelve dollars for thirty five
grams of protein, it is probably cheaper than buying the
chicken breast the different vegetables. That's probably going to cost
(24:55):
you close to twenty but they've got to taste good
for people to invest that kind of money. Given that
originally frozen meals were five bucks, now they're sort of
eight to ten, and it's getting into that ten plus
dollar people do expect a certain level of standard and
quality with it.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, I mean, I'd rather go to a sandwich shop
and get a beautiful fresh sandwich with all of the
salads and some lean chicken breast and a bit of avocado,
And it's certainly going to be It's pretty high protein.
Maybe not thirty five grams, but it's a lot fresheran
to me, a lot more appealing, and not really twelve
dollars either.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Oh, I mean, depending on where you go.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
I thought it was the price was quite high for it.
I thought it was probably more an eight dollar product,
So they're certainly trading on the protein aspect. Thirty five grams.
It is good, But yeah, I think that it's not
visually so appealing right now.
Speaker 5 (25:40):
They've got to do a bit of work on it.
I don't think a lot of people will be jumping
for it reaching for it. Yeah, true, true, true. Speaking
of jumping and reaching, well, what do we need to
do that. Lean college keeps our joints.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
That's beautiful and iluds wrong and fluid flex or the.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Listener question of the week, what is the evidence behind
collagen supplementation? Now, I think I've taken collagen for a
long time, probably a lot longer than you. I've always
been a bit of a fan of it and you
look twenty five. So it's working well done, and a
filter too. But I will say collagen isn't magic, right,
Collagen is not botox, no matter how much we want
(26:19):
it to be, it is not magic. However, there is
a reasonable amount of evidence behind specific hydrolyzed collagen peptides
and certain strains of them, certain brands of them, and
when taken consistently, not sporadically randomly, when you remember twice
a week, consistently by that I mean daily, the research
has shown that it can actually modestly improve important things
(26:43):
like skin elasticity, hydration, and wrinkled depth. That's where the
bulk of the strongest research lies. But you need to
take it daily for about eight to twelve weeks. That's
what the research shows. So for skin health, yes, not
for fat loss, not for hormos, not for repairing your gut,
it's not bowtop, but for skin and joint heals. Yes,
there is some good research now. The most studied collagen
(27:06):
peptides are called verasol. Now In some of the research,
Charles found that about two point five grams of verasol
collagen a day for eight weeks reduced irinkle volume and
increased different markers of dermal matrix synthesis, including procollagen type
one and elastin now it Also there was another study
that find that verasol bovine collagen in women between the
(27:30):
ages of thirty five and fifty five found that two
and a half grams of collagen daily improved wrinkle volume,
skin elasticity, and hydration after eight weeks. So there are
some systematic reviews that generally show that cardrolized collagen and
the bulk of the research has been done on austrand
called verasol. Veerisol, like I said, helps with skin hydration, elasticity,
(27:55):
and some fine lines and wrinkles, but the effect is
modest and some of the studies are on smaller site.
That is important to know. So do I like collagen overall? Yes,
it adds protein into the diet. If you're looking at
it from a joint health perspective, you need more so
for from that skin elasticity perspective, you're looking at two
and a half to five grams a day. From a
(28:15):
joint health perspective, you're looking at ten to fifteen grams
a day. Now, there's been some chatter online that like
a marine collagen is superior. The research does not show
that I personally prefer bovine collagen. But if you're not
someone who you know eats meat or something, then marine
collagen might be a better option for you.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
But it is not any better.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
It's just like people say that, you know, vegan protein
is better than way, it's actually not. The research shows
that the opposite way protein is actually better than vegan protein.
So if you were going to do it, I would
say you need to do it daily. You need to
take it for eight to twelve weeks, take some photo
see if it makes a difference. Try to find a
brand that uses verasol, because that is the most research
collagen peptide out there. A lot of brands talk a
(28:56):
big game, They charge a hell of a lot of money,
They have beautiful models modeling for them, but really we're
looking at the evidence and where the science actually lies.
And as I said, if you're going to take it
when you remember sporadically, when you feel life, get half
a dose here, half a dose there, You're probably not
going to get the best results. Because the research really
does show two point five to five grams a day
(29:18):
for eight to twelve weeks using if you can, vasol,
which is a trademarked collagen peptide.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
So that is exactly what we did when we.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Formulated out designed by Dietitian renew collagen. We used five
grams in a serve of verasol collagen. We manufacture it
in Australia. We're bound by very tight TDA regulations. It
doesn't come out of China like a lot of different
supplement brands do. And we use that viasol collagen as well.
So if you want to try it, there is some
research behind collagen and it also adds to your overall
(29:49):
protein intake for the day, So scoop of our designed
by Dietitian renew collagen actually adds about five grams of
protein to your day as well, so numerous benefits. Whether
or not you want to try it is entirely up
to you. But if you are looking at it from
a joint health perspective, I double the dose and do
ten grams a day.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (30:08):
I think that definitely when you're getting into your forties
and fifties and you start to notice that knee pain,
it's worth a try because that can be debilitating and
there is evidence for it. But it's like anything, it's
about the consistency and doing it in the right way.
And my collagen users love it, you know, they're deeply
committed to it. So yeah, it's like all supplementation, it's
(30:30):
a personal choice, but we can relate the science. And
I also think it's important. I've noticed on social media
a few doctors hopping on a bandwagon about collagen supplementation,
and I think you've also got to keep in mind
where you're getting your positioning from, because it's like with HRT.
If you see a doctor who's deeply against HRT or supplements,
(30:52):
that's the message they send, and that's also a personal
position as opposed to reporting the science. And that's what
we will do here at the Nutrition Couch. They're not
saying that that super letting collagens like botoxs are going
to make you look twenty years younger, which I think
some brands do allude to in their marketing, and they're
off their brands by people you don't. They're faceless brands
who's making them? So I think with supplements, you want
(31:13):
to make sure you're getting it from someone qualified to
be formulating, which is why we create a design by dietitians.
But I think just be wary when you get haters,
you know, doctors saying no evidence, shouldn't be having it.
And I look at some of the doctors and I think,
you don't even wear makeup, so you're not using or
promoting supplements ever, and as such, you're putting your personal
opinion on things. And my position always on supplements, it's
(31:34):
a personal choice. I can tell you what I think
has evidence behind it. I'll tell you what I take
and why, but then I let my clients go and
make an informed decision themselves. Whereas I think when you
get experts or professionals telling people what they think they
should and shouldn't do, I'm always a bit wary because
it's like, you know, what political party do you go for?
You're bringing your personal opinion on it versus actually just
(31:54):
reporting the science and letting people make an informed choice.
So yeah, if you're watching a doctor who clearly isn't
about anti aging in her presentation, she's probably not the
person to be giving commentary about college and supplementation for
whatever purpose. Because you're right, particularly when it comes to
joint health, there is evidence for it and has been
for many, many years, and as such, we have used
it with athletes, et cetera for a long time in
(32:16):
their joint rehab and recovery. In a different context, And
can I also say that just because a brand charges
a heck of a lot of money, like I've seen
College in eighteen ninety dollars, it doesn't mean it's better.
As I said, if you actually look at the clinical research,
verasol is the best most research studies strain of collagen,
and a lot of these brands aren't even using that
and they're charging ninety dollars that designed by dieticians. We
(32:38):
want the best quality research and we want fair prices
all year round. We don't inflate our prices to constantly
go on thirty or forty percent off.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
That's just not what we do. I like to think
we have integrity, Suzi, like some of the brands.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Well, we don't.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Yeah, we don't overcharge for similar you know, we charge
what we need to charge as a business, but we
don't double it just to make extra profit, which is
what you see all the time with creation and with pollogen,
which makes us very angry. And the hot chocolates I've
spoken about the eighty dollars hot chocolate. That's abominable. You know,
if ex influencers and models are selling double the active ingredient,
(33:11):
it's dodgy as and I think it is good to
be aware of that because if you want it's like
when you go to the chemist and you're looking at
the active molecule in the allergy med you know, don't
pay more for a brand name if it's the same
active ingredient. And that's the same thing with supplements. Just
buy beware because you can waste a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
And if we're using the best quality available strains of
collagen and packing and you know, actually manufacturing it in
Australia is most brands are manufacturing straight out of China,
and we can do our collagen for thirty seven dollars
a bag. You don't need to be paying ninety dollars
when some of these celebrity brands are charging, you're not
getting anything better.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
I was looking at creating in.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
I had to do a review article for Good Food
and I had to do Creatin in the supermarket, so
I actually went online to look at all the different
brands because I wanted to report. So seek German Creating
for the pure option, and none of the mainstream brands
in supermarket. We're marketing on German source Creatin, which means
(34:11):
it's all Chinese. So that's also what's going on in
the background.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah, all right, Well, little supplement chitchat for our listeners.
But that brings us to the end of another episode
of the Nutrition Catch And like we said, if you
know that your diet needs a little bit of extra
protein or creatine, or you'd like to trial some collagen,
go and check out our scientifically formulated range of supplements
at designed Bydietitians dot com. Thank you for listening, and
we will catch you in next week's podcast.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
You will have a great week.
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