A huge thank you to Kenneth for coming on the podcast as he's made it his mission to talk about how he compartmentalized so much trauma over his career and had to deal with it a few month after retirement.
Like many, Kenneth worked hard in Probation for 28 years working primarily in crimes against children. After experience drug overdoses, suicides, and more, Kenneth hit that retirement mark and thought it would be a smooth ride. After three short months, everything caught up to him and needed an emergency therapy session to work on everything he suppressed over the course of his career.
Tune in to learn about Kenneth's career and some great advice for our community.
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SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
All right, everybody, welcome back to the
Overwatch Collective Podcast.
Uh, today I have with me KenStevenson coming from uh Sonoma
County, Northern California.
Ken, how are we doing?
unknown (00:13):
Good.
SPEAKER_01 (00:13):
How about yourself?
SPEAKER_00 (00:14):
I'm good.
Thank you so much for coming ononce again.
Um and for the connection, youreaching out, you being willing
to talk about uh mental health,normalizing it, and kind of
coming on here to share yourstory.
It's very noble of you.
And I think this is where ouraudience gets the most out of
the podcast is when we havepeople within our own community
(00:36):
coming on, sharing about theirexperiences, and then like, hey,
it's not that bad.
Like, you guys should all beaware of this.
These are some of the things tokind of keep note of.
And then if you need to go totherapy and work on some things,
go to therapy and work on somethings.
So looking forward to get intouh um your career and then kind
(00:58):
of everything that youexperienced.
Um, before I have you take itaway and do a quick little
introduction, I'm gonna mentionour therapy statistics for the
Overwatch Collective.
So as of Sunday, I believe it'slike uh what is it, September
7th or something like that?
September 6th, uh we're at$351,359 spent on therapy costs.
(01:21):
And then we've either fullycovered or financially assisted
3,303 therapy sessions, andwe've helped 320 people in our
first responder militarycommunity get connected to our
therapists and/or uh retreatsacross the country.
One is actually in your neck ofthe woods, the West Coast
post-trauma retreat, uh, whichI'm sure that you are familiar
(01:43):
with.
Yeah, so um fortunate to havehelped 320 people in our
community that have courageouslysaid, like, hey, you know what?
Let's finally get some uh getsome help and then come through
us and trust us to be able toget the resources that they
need.
So um that's it.
Every time I do a podcast, Ijust like to give our updated
therapy statistics, and um,that's pretty much it.
(02:06):
But uh you were in probation fora very, very long time.
Um, did a bunch of specialtyassignments there, um, and then
you did experience somepost-traumatic stress symptoms,
and then you sought out help.
You went through um you wentthrough therapy, you did the eye
movement desensitization andreprocessing, which I'm excited
to hear about how it went foryou.
(02:27):
Um, and now the whole reason whyyou're on here is to share your
story and get the message outthat hey, it's uh it's okay to
not be okay at times and takecare of yourself.
And um, I think that's the partthat our community struggles
with.
But um, I'm excited to hear itfrom you.
So without further ado, Ken,please give us an introduction
(02:47):
of yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (02:49):
First of all, Greg, I just want to thank you for
having me on this show.
And uh when I talked to ShaunaEdwards, who has been on here
before, a very good friend ofmine, um, we were talking about
being able to give back.
And I started my career in 1991uh in probation and working with
abused kids.
And pretty much up until thelast couple years, I just
(03:11):
retired in 2025, so 34 years.
It was very taboo to talk aboutanything mental health.
Um, seen a lot of officerseither commit suicide or get
into drinking, failed marriages,things like that.
So I really appreciate just theopportunity to come out here and
just normalize everything thatum sometimes things just happen
(03:35):
because we go through trauma.
And uh when I get into my story,um I wasn't planning on mine,
mine just became an emergencybasis, so I'll I'll get into
that in a little while.
But yeah, um, I actually went toschool to be a youth pastor.
So I my degree's in theology,and uh God had different plans
for me.
Um I worked in Napa County forjust just about 28 years,
(03:58):
started in Sonoma County,working with abused kids,
working in custody, uh had lotsof great assignments.
I ran my own uh program calledYouth Impact Program, where it
was kind of a uh military bootcamp, but instead of doing
military-style things, we didcognitive behaviors.
And my philosophy was these umjuveniles were already broke
(04:19):
down.
So my job was to build them upand to give them confidence and
to show them success and to getthem out of the system.
So I did that for about 10years.
Um, and I loved it.
I I got to work in the schoolsand uh got to work with a lot of
uh school resource officers andand a lot of administration
staff, was on a lot of differentcoalitions, and so I really
enjoyed that.
(04:40):
Around 2008, I was asked uh tobe on our uh Department of
Judgment, or excuse me,Department of Justice Bureau of
Narcotic Enforcement uh drugforce task team.
Uh what wanted me to do that wasthey just had started a thing in
California called drugendangered child cases, where
(05:01):
they were going after theparents when kids were hurt
because of the parents' drug useor they overdosed on drug use.
So we were just we were juststarting that team, and I was
good in that area, and I reallywanted to do that.
So um that was my main reasonfor you know working on the task
force team.
(05:21):
From 2009 to about 2013, um, allwe did was drugs.
Um Jerry Brown became the thenew governor again and cut the
task force teams from 32 toeight.
Napa County's not a big, bigarea, so we uh we were no longer
(05:42):
a federal task force team.
Um when I came out of there, Ihad met uh the gal Sue Weber
Brown, who got drug-endangeredchildren laws on the boards.
And um, she asked me if I wouldteach for her up and down the
state of California and atseminars and conferences and to
different departments.
(06:03):
And so I took that and I ranwith that.
Um for my last 16 years uhworking in Napa County, I was
our drug and drug-endangeredchild expert.
I came back around I think 2018onto the task force team.
And by then, uh in California,it really there wasn't a lot of
punishment for formethamphetamine and fentanyl and
(06:26):
cocaine and all these formerfelonies.
And we started having a hugehuman trafficking and a huge uh
pimping and pandering issue umaround us.
And then we also really startedhaving fentanyl overdoses.
So our job changed a lot.
Um we started going to uhfentanyl overdoses, heroin
(06:48):
overdoses.
They wanted us to try to see ifwe could find who sold to them,
things like that.
Um, I still did all the workwith um with our child welfare
system.
I'm still part of that teamwhere we would go out and
investigate any kind of childendangerment cases, had a really
good rapport.
Uh that was another stigma whenI came in in 2019 or 2009
(07:10):
originally.
Uh law enforcement and childwelfare didn't really get along
well.
They didn't trust each other.
So, really uh being the thebridge person to that, um,
really developed some greatrelationships and really was
able to solve a a lot of cases alot quicker and to really help a
lot of kids.
Like anything in this in thisfield, I think when you do kid
(07:34):
cases, um that really messeswith your brain.
Uh I talked about I talked aboutShauna.
I knew her as Shauna Murtha for19 years.
Now it's Shauna Edwards, but weworked a lot of cases together.
And I remember her telling meprobably around 2020, she's
like, your brain is injured.
Like you're gonna need you'regonna need help for all this
(07:55):
stuff.
And at the time, I think she wasdoing some brain spotting and
and some EMDR, and I didn'treally know anything about it.
Um, so you know, we talked a lotabout that, and you know, we we
did a lot of things together.
And towards the end of mycareer, you know, and I can't
really talk about some of thestuff because they're still
(08:16):
going through court, but whenyou do when you deal with enough
child death cases and you dealwith, you know, I was dealing
with some human traffickingvictims that were the same size
and age as my own daughter, andI was, you know, a couple girls,
I was the only one they trustedto talk to.
And so you don't really thinkthat that bothers you.
And for me, I I guess gettinginto how it all started for why
(08:40):
I needed to, kind of on an in anemergency basis, why I needed to
start doing some EMDR and somebrain spotting.
Uh, I retired in January of 25.
And probably around April of 25,uh, my dad had a major medical
incident.
I had to take care of him.
And about a couple days later, Iwoke up in fight or flight.
(09:02):
Um, I couldn't sit down.
I probably from about 11 o'clockat night till about five o'clock
in the morning, I cleanedeverything in the house.
I went down in the garage.
I redid like all my tools.
I just my my fight or flight wasjust through the roof.
Um, and that lasted for about 60days.
(09:22):
I couldn't, I went to thedoctors, I went to all this
stuff.
Uh Shauna actually gave me anemergency uh brain spotting
session.
She she hooked me up with atherapist uh through my
insurance.
I also started doing EMDR at thesame time.
Um, and I knew I I used to Iused to tell people like I know
(09:43):
that I'm gonna have to deal withthis at some time because it's
not normal.
I just didn't know it was gonnabe in an emergency basis.
And I basically, for 60 days, Imean, I was probably walking 10
to 15 miles a day.
I just I had so much fight orflight adrenaline and anxiety
and panic attacks, and uh it wasjust really awful.
(10:04):
And like I said, it reallywasn't talked about.
Um fortunately, there was uhthere was another uh former
sheriff that I had worked with.
I didn't know he had experienceda bunch of the stuff, and I saw
his name on on a thing for uhrunning a group or whatever, and
I called him and you know, I waslike, boom, wow, somebody else
(10:27):
understands what I'm goingthrough.
And and he was able to reallykind of like talk me through
everything.
And I, you know, I'd worked withhim a bunch.
He was a detective, he did a lotof kitty crimes.
So just having someone else liketell me, like, hey, this is
okay, you know, like you can getthrough this, and there is help
for you, and uh so I did I didbrain spotting for probably five
(10:52):
or six months, and then Iswitched into the EMDR, and I've
I actually I I went today, so II've continued to go because I
I've got a 25-year-old and I'vegot a 22-year-old, and I also
have an adopted daughter andgrandson that came from Mexico
and got left here, and I don'twant to have anything affect
(11:13):
them, you know what I mean.
And of course, my my lovelywife, you know, who I started my
career with and uh and I endedmy career with, and I want to be
with the rest of my life.
Um having all this mental healthstuff and the trauma, you know,
waking up in the middle of thenight and fight or flight
screaming, you know, stuff likethat.
Uh wasn't easy on my spouse, youknow, wasn't easy on stuff.
(11:37):
So um I'm still very motivatedto just keep working on anything
that comes up and to just kindof get all this behind me so I
don't, you know, um I don'tstill have any of these things.
Uh yeah, I don't have I don'thave a fight or flight where I
can't sit still.
(11:58):
I just now I wake up likesweating and I'll scream
something, you know.
But it's uh definitely gottenbetter and and I'll continue to
keep going.
It's definitely it was alifesaver for me.
SPEAKER_00 (12:09):
Yeah, good.
No, and number one, I want tosay thank you for for sharing
all of that and kind of breakingit down.
I know it's definitely it's notan easy thing, and I I generally
do think that it's gettingbetter.
Um, and like as you mentioned,thankfully for the other sheriff
that that deputy or whoever thatwas had the group that was like,
hey, what you're experiencing,your symptoms.
(12:31):
I've heard this before, like,this is why we started this, or
we have fellow first respondersin the group that have displayed
the same symptoms as you.
So then that triggers like, ohman, like okay, I'm not alone in
this.
Yes, like it's a common thing,right?
And a question that I have foryou is 28 years of doing all of
this, did you realize that,like, hey, you're
(12:55):
compartmentalizing all this andyou'll deal with this shit
later?
And if so, like, how many timesdid that happen?
And did you just continue topush it and push it or and think
it was gonna get better or goaway?
SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
So here's the interesting thing.
My therapist for brain spottingand my therapist for EMDR both
said, I've never seen someone beable to compartmentalize more
things and do their job thanyou.
And what was interesting is whenI was really going through it
(13:27):
and doing the brain spotting,when my body had enough, I
literally would fall asleep inthe chair during therapy.
And I took my wife one time sothat the therapist could explain
to her what was going on, andshe thought that I just was
falling asleep and not payingattention.
(13:48):
And the therapist says, No, hedoes this all the time when his
body's had enough.
So I knew, like when I talked toShauna and she said your brain's
injured, I knew that I wouldhave to deal with this stuff,
and I planned to deal with this.
I just didn't think it would betwo months into my retirement
and just like yeah, just boom,it just it all leaked out, and
(14:11):
you know, not not having the youknow, to go to work and do all
the stuff and to be responsibleand to help other people, and my
body finally relaxed and it justit all came out and it was
unexpected.
And I mean, I'm I'm glad I don'thave you know I don't have any
regrets.
I I knew that I was gonna haveto do that.
Um I you know, it just it wassomething I knew was there, but
(14:36):
I guess I compartmentalized itso well that it never affected
me at work, you know what Imean.
Yeah I mean obviously I when Itaught up and down the state, I
used to tell people, well, ifyou learn one thing here, you
know, just treat these kids likewhen you go in, they're they're
not a piece of property, they'renot evidence.
Treat them like you would wantsomeone to treat your own kid
(14:59):
because this is gonna affectyou, you know what I mean.
We all have black sheep in ourfamily, we all, you know, we've
all have kids, you know,usually, and that's when I I
knew it affected me because ofall the kids stuff, you know
what I mean?
And I just didn't I didn't knowhow bad it affected me until it
all seeped out.
SPEAKER_00 (15:19):
Yeah, yeah.
And those like so all like thethe ICAC, the internet crimes
against children, the humantrafficking, the pimping with
children, like I've heard thatcountless times where um where
it's like it should be mandatoryfor those detectives or
investigators to have atherapist to have some sort of
outlet because like and likewhat you mentioned, Ken, same
(15:41):
thing is a lot of my buddiesthat have been detectives and
doing ICAT cases and all thisstuff, they also have kids.
SPEAKER_01 (15:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:47):
And it's like, how are you supposed to go home and
see that?
And then um, circling back toretirement, literally three,
what, three months after youretire, your body slows down,
you're not going the calls,you're not doing the job, and
then it's like your body'sfinally realizing that, like,
okay, things are slowing down.
Now it's time to hit you withwhat you've been experiencing
(16:10):
throughout your entire career.
And that's why I think one ofthe main reasons is um why we're
seeing so many suicides amongstretirees within the first year
of retirement.
Like it's supposed to be thisclaimer, hey, you worked your
ass off for 25, 30, 35 years.
Now go enjoy retirement, go onvacations, do some stuff with
(16:33):
the wife, enjoy, like relax.
But if we're not taking care ofourselves throughout the career,
then what happened to you isgonna happen to me and everybody
else, right?
Like you're gonna compart andmonolize it for 25, 30, 35
years.
You think retirement's gonna bethis grand thing, and then boom,
you have to deal with all thisstuff, and you're not with the
(16:55):
crew anymore.
You don't have the employmentassistant program, you don't
have the peer support.
Um it's it's a challenging time,I think, for the for the
retirees.
And I feel like the retireeskind of get left in the dark
sometimes.
SPEAKER_01 (17:09):
Yeah, yeah, I I I agree on that 100%.
And I remember, you know, in mycareer when people that were
doing a lot of the kitty crimesstarted having some issues, and
and I can remember people notwanting to work with them, you
know, like they were, like theywere, you know, they had leprosy
or something like that from theold the old times or something.
(17:31):
It was like, I'm like, wow, talkabout like being insensitive to
somebody that's doing a greatjob and dealing with this, you
know.
But yeah, I I was like, I was Ididn't really understand it, you
know.
And now when I look back on itand I've talked to those people,
I I just feel bad that we didn'thave more support back then.
(17:51):
But hey, I mean we're adaptingand and it's it's pretty common
now, and they're finallyadmitting like in 34 years, I I
had no secondary trauma traininguntil my last five years.
So I started in 91, I ended in2025, but it wasn't until five
years, you know, about 2020,that I ever even heard secondary
trauma.
SPEAKER_00 (18:10):
Yeah, yeah.
And that and that's why I dothink like the past five years,
I want to say, and like talk,we've been around since 2021,
just doing the podcast.
Granted, we were we were nothingbig in the beginning, um, but it
was exact conversations likethis.
Like we were talking about whenthey got hired, what if they
were a deputy coroner, a policeofficer, firefighter,
(18:31):
dispatcher, when they wentthrough the academy, did they
get any mental health training?
And then what was the stigmalike?
Were people reaching out?
And then we had everybody in thecommunity on, including service
members, and it was like that'swhen we realized we're like,
okay, boom, we need to turn thisinto a nonprofit where we can
contract culturally competenttherapists and then have a
(18:53):
smooth and confidential processto get our community connected
to them because of what welearned from the podcast.
So um, yeah, I mean, I amdefinitely glad to hear that
it's getting better, and I'veI've seen it as well.
We are seeing a lot of suicidestill and a lot of people not
wanting to go get help, but I Idon't think that we're ever
going to see every single firstresponder or service member
(19:15):
getting help every time thatthey feel a way.
Um, I don't think we can everget to that point, no matter
what.
Um, but something that does helpare these conversations, like I
mentioned.
And I do want to have you talkabout um brain spotting and EMDR
for a few minutes.
Um, and kind of like yourinitial thoughts if you were
(19:35):
like, oh, this is funky.
I'm supposed to do some clickingor tapping, whichever form you
did of EMDR, and then kind ofthe results and how you feel
about it now.
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
Well, I could say one thing.
Um, when I first was goingthrough this and they would tell
me to breathe or do whatever, Iwanted to punch to punch them.
You know what I mean?
This wasn't my brain spottingpeople or whatever.
I'm like, if I could breathe andsit still, I would be doing it.
You know what I mean?
Um, so EMDR and brain spottingis nothing like that.
Um, what really sold me was whenI did that emergency brain
(20:09):
spotting with Shauna.
And, you know, we were doing theyou know different stuff in the
room on a case, and I can't talkabout the case because because
it's still going.
Um, but the interesting thing iswhere I felt the anxiety and the
stress in the room, she cameback and she said, Well, let me
(20:30):
ask you, when you guys madeentry and you found the dead
body, where was it at?
And I'm like, Well, it was onthe right side of the room,
right over here.
And that's where I was feelingwhen she moved the when she
moved the brain spotting tapper.
And I was like, No way, likethere's no way, like this has
gotta, this has gotta havesomething to it here, you know.
There's no way that she wouldknow that.
(20:51):
I've never talked to her aboutthat, you know what I mean?
And like after that, I was justreally sold.
And and then, you know, I mean,obviously I couldn't see her
because we were good friends andall that stuff, but she set me
up with a really good lady in myarea, and it just did wonders.
I mean, every I mean, everythingthat you know I was going
(21:12):
through, we were able to tobrain spot that, and then we,
you know, and then we moved intothe EMDR, and I'm kind of ADD,
ADHD, and so having you know,having the the rapid movement in
my pulses in my hand, and alsothe lights at times and
different that worked for mybrain.
That worked a lot because if youjust tell me, oh, visualize,
(21:33):
whatever, I I my brain doesn'twork like that.
I'm just like this is yeah, I'mlike, you know, especially in
our thing, it's like, okay, thisis my crock of crack, you know
what I mean.
So I was very happy with allthat stuff and and amazed, you
know, amazed at how how doingthe rapid movement and all the
other stuff, how it reallydesensitized and let me work
(21:56):
through, you know, several deathcases and several, you know.
Rape cases and just differentthings like that that I dealt
with that were, you know, wakingme up in fight or flight, um,
and you know, putting me inpanic attacks and you know,
things like that.
Um it was just amazing to me howworking through that, you know,
um really helped.
(22:17):
And and I'll say it's not easy.
Like, like last last week I dida two-hour session, and I mean,
I really thought I was gonna getsick in the session.
I I felt very nauseous becauseit was just really dredging up
some hard stuff, you know what Imean?
But my body's been holding itfor a long time and it needed to
(22:40):
release that.
And like today, when I went,being able to talk about that
and telling my therapist, like,yeah, you know, like that was
that was one of the roughestphysically, emotionally ones
I've dealt with in 18 months,you know what I mean?
Um, but understanding theprocess and understanding that
my body was finally releasingsome stuff that had really been
(23:03):
fighting to not come out andfighting for just to stay
compartmentalized, you know whatI mean?
SPEAKER_00 (23:09):
So, question with that.
Um, do you feel like now havingbeen through brain spotting EMDR
and getting the help that youyou need?
And I know it's a lot of work,but you're making progress and
everything.
Do you think that if you startedthis earlier on in your career,
that your career would have beendifferent, you would have felt
(23:32):
different, and then retirementwould have been different?
SPEAKER_01 (23:35):
I I definitely know I wouldn't have had to deal with
this on an emergency basis.
I mean, 100% I guarantee youthat.
Um and I don't think I don'tthink it the depth of of the
compartmentalization that Iburied it with would have been
like that because I would havedealt with that, you know.
(23:57):
I mean, like if you have a ifyou have a critical incident
shooting, you know, they, youknow, whoever's involved, you
have to go to the therapist, youhave to talk about, you know,
you have to do all that stuff.
That's it.
None of this other stuff that wedeal with.
Do you have to meet withsomebody and do you have to talk
about things or even ever dealwith it?
(24:17):
You know, you just stuff it.
You just stuff it.
So yeah, I definitely, Idefinitely think just even, I
mean, a good thing aboutworking, you know, on a team,
you know, we would debriefstuff, we would do things, but
never, never really like, heyman, like I'm really struggling
with this.
Like, I'm, you know, havingpanic attacks, or I woke up last
(24:40):
night.
It just, once again, it itwasn't talked about.
That would have been likealienating yourself from the
team, you know what I mean?
So I think if we would have hadthat when we had really horrible
cases and the you know, thedeaths and all the other things
like that, I think that wouldhave really helped.
You know, I definitely thinkthat would have helped me early
on in my career, you know.
I I don't I tell everybody likeI don't I thank God for putting
(25:05):
me where he did, and I wouldn'tchange, I wouldn't change a
thing.
I you know, I think I wascompassionate and being able to
understand all this and and andpeople always told me
everything, you know, victimsalways told me everything, which
was good and bad.
I had to, I had to carry a lotmore, but at least they finally
got the help that they needed,you know what I mean?
(25:27):
Um so in that retrospect, Iwouldn't change anything.
I I would have liked our wholefield in general to talk about
it more, but hey, we're makingprogress now, and and your show
is great, your foundation isgreat.
Uh, we are blessed in Napa.
We have that retreat for notonly first responders, but for
(25:48):
their spouses, you know, becauseI I've you know, I have friends
that are spouses whose, youknow, you know, their husband or
wife killed themselves, you knowwhat I mean?
So it's like, you know, theyneed it too, and their kids need
it, you know.
So I mean, I feel very blessedthat that we're getting that
kind of stuff now, and it's andit's being it's being talked
about.
I mean, that's just a huge stepum in our in our line of work.
(26:11):
Um, one thing I've foundinteresting, and I don't know if
you've you've heard about this,but obviously a lot of military
people are drawn to lawenforcement because it's
similar.
But I've been doing a lot ofreading and studying, and
they're saying one thing that'sreally bad is you're getting
people from the military thatalready have a lot of trauma,
(26:33):
and then you're traumatizingthem again, and they're going
right into law enforcement.
So they haven't dealt with thetrauma, they haven't dealt with
the trauma of the military andbeing in at war, you know, and
now they're going right into thesame war, you know what I mean?
And so I've been trying to be alot more sensitive to my friends
that had both both militaryspecial ops.
(26:56):
You know, by the time when Iended, I think I had four guys
on my team that had been specialops.
And a couple of them, you know,they used to tell me I didn't
expect to live past 26, youknow.
I mean, that's just the kind ofteam I was on, you know.
So uh, you know, understandingthat they've got even more stuff
that they're dealing with, youknow.
So that's kind of a thing thatI've been trying to work with
with friends and and and formerco-workers that had military and
(27:17):
went right into law enforcement.
SPEAKER_00 (27:19):
Yeah, no, I I like that, and I think that's that's
a good thing that you're doingthat.
And like, for example, today Ijust went to a recruiting event
for our police department atFort Polk in Louisiana in uh
Louisiana, and um and it's easyto get prior military on as a
police officer, firefighter, allthat stuff.
But perfect example of that isone of my buddies, Shane Hart.
(27:40):
He was in the Marine Corps, hewas a scout sniper, and um, then
he worked at the Daily CityPolice Department with me.
We were on the SWAT team, andunfortunately, he um he took his
own life January of this year.
So um absolutely thank you.
Yeah, it's just absolutelytragic.
And um, but we are definitelymaking making strides.
So I do have two last questionsfor you.
I'll start with the first one.
(28:01):
What is one piece of advice thatyou would give to a first
responder that's maybe five toten years into their career
right now?
SPEAKER_01 (28:13):
My best advice would be if you know that you've dealt
with traumatic cases to startworking on them now.
And there's nothing wrong, evenif it's not affecting you,
there's nothing wrong with justgoing to either a counselor or
(28:34):
an EMDR um therapist.
There's nothing wrong withstarting the process now before
it gets like my situation whereyou have to deal with it because
you can't function.
You know, you can't sit down.
So I mean that would be my bestadvice is just um just just know
that.
I I know like I did the thingswhere I always worked out, I
(28:58):
went to church, I coached mykids, I did the stuff like that
for survival, you know what Imean?
But I didn't do the stuff formyself as far as like
therapeutic and counseling.
Um, I knew not to, you know,wall myself off and not do you
know healthy things, you know,physically, but I wasn't taking
(29:20):
care of my mental health sidebecause I just compartmentalized
it so well it didn't affect meuntil now.
SPEAKER_00 (29:28):
Like what the the that's the common thing too.
That's just what it's uh a lotof time, it's just easier to
easier to do that, and you don'twant to get ridiculed or skipped
down on promotions or can go onand on with that.
Um I appreciate you sharingthat.
It's a good piece of advice.
And our last question, uh, weask everybody at the end of the
podcast.
(29:48):
Our motto at the OverwatchCollective is one more is one
less.
SPEAKER_01 (29:53):
I'm sorry, I didn't I didn't get all that.
SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
Our motto at the Overwatch Collective is one more
is one less.
SPEAKER_01 (29:59):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
So it comes from uh a soldier who lost more fronts
to suicide upon return stateside than actually overseas.
So um, so we always say, like,one more person we can help is
one less struggling, etc.
Um, so what we like to do is weask our guests at the end of the
episode what one more is oneless means to them.
So if you want to take a momentand then share it with that.
SPEAKER_01 (30:24):
I mean, like I shared at the beginning, the the
whole reason I'm doing thispodcast is because if I can help
one person that's going throughthis and it not only saves their
life, it saves their family'slife because if they're gone,
their family's suffering too.
And um I have no, I have no tome, I have no pride, I have no
(30:52):
shame that this happened to meand I've had to deal with this,
and I want people to know likeit's okay.
You know what I mean?
You don't have to do this alone,and it will get better, and you
don't have to make suicide anoption, you know.
There's help out there, andpeople aren't gonna stigmatize
you, and you can't worry aboutthat stuff.
You gotta take care of yourselfand your family by getting the
(31:15):
help that you need.
It's caused by what we dealwith.
This is not normal, we don'tdeal with normal things.
SPEAKER_00 (31:23):
Definitely not.
No, definitely not.
Well, um, to kind of wrap it up,I just want to say once again,
thank you for coming on.
Thank you for obviously that thegoal of the podcast is is to
share your story um and tonormalize it.
You know what I mean?
Like you just said it perfectly.
Um, and I'm I'm proud of you.
(31:45):
I'm glad that you're getting thehelp now.
And I'm sure that your yourfamily's seeing a difference as
well, and you're seeing adifference within yourself, and
that's you know, I mean, we wantto go up the roller coaster, and
it seems like you're going up itinstead of down.
So um that makes me happy.
I'm glad to hear that.
And uh shout out to Shauna forgetting us connected.
SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
Yeah, appreciate that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:04):
Yeah, of course.
So um kind of wraps it up.
That's all that I have, unlessyou have anything else or any
last-minute thoughts.
SPEAKER_01 (32:12):
No, I mean, uh you you've got my you've got my
contact information.
And I mean, if there's anyonethat's hearing this that has
questions or needs to reach outto me, I mean, feel free to give
them my email.
Um, just put in the title, likeI heard your podcast or
whatever, you know what I mean.
Um, I don't I don't want anyoneto feel like they don't have
(32:32):
someone out there, and you know,they can more I'm more than
welcome to talk to them or youknow, give them advice or just
be someone to listen to them ifthat's what they need.
SPEAKER_00 (32:42):
Yeah, I think you're a uh perfect candidate for our
buddy program.
So I'll send you the link after,but we have uh we have over 30
buddies on our website whereit's essentially just like what
you said it's a photo, bio,email, and then a podcast that
gets linked.
Um podcast with them, and it'skind of just like, hey, my
name's Ken, and I've been herefor 28 years.
(33:04):
This is what I've experienced.
If you need someone to talk toor anything, then and we've
heard great success from that.
So um, total free resource, andsometimes it's kind of nice to
reach out to a complete strangerinstead of somebody that you
know.
So um I think you'd be a perfectcandidate for it.
SPEAKER_01 (33:20):
Yeah, thank you.
I'd be honored to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (33:22):
Yeah, awesome, sweet.
Um, yeah, once again, Ken,appreciate you coming on.
Everybody, I hope you enjoyed uhseason 11, episode six with Ken.
Um, Ken, thank you for yourservice.
Thanks for everything thatyou've done for the community.
I'm sure countless, countless,countless victims, children that
you've helped and everything.
Appreciate you, brother.
unknown (33:42):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (33:42):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (33:43):
All right, everybody.
Take care.
God bless, man.
SPEAKER_01 (33:45):
All right, take care.
All right, everybody, welcome back to the
Overwatch Collective Podcast.
Uh, today I have with me KenStevenson coming from uh Sonoma
County, Northern California.
Ken, how are we doing?
unknown (00:13):
Good.
SPEAKER_01 (00:13):
How about yourself?
SPEAKER_00 (00:14):
I'm good.
Thank you so much for coming ononce again.
Um and for the connection, youreaching out, you being willing
to talk about uh mental health,normalizing it, and kind of
coming on here to share yourstory.
It's very noble of you.
And I think this is where ouraudience gets the most out of
the podcast is when we havepeople within our own community
(00:36):
coming on, sharing about theirexperiences, and then like, hey,
it's not that bad.
Like, you guys should all beaware of this.
These are some of the things tokind of keep note of.
And then if you need to go totherapy and work on some things,
go to therapy and work on somethings.
So looking forward to get intouh um your career and then kind
(00:58):
of everything that youexperienced.
Um, before I have you take itaway and do a quick little
introduction, I'm gonna mentionour therapy statistics for the
Overwatch Collective.
So as of Sunday, I believe it'slike uh what is it, September
7th or something like that?
September 6th, uh we're at$351,359 spent on therapy costs.
(01:21):
And then we've either fullycovered or financially assisted
3,303 therapy sessions, andwe've helped 320 people in our
first responder militarycommunity get connected to our
therapists and/or uh retreatsacross the country.
One is actually in your neck ofthe woods, the West Coast
post-trauma retreat, uh, whichI'm sure that you are familiar
(01:43):
with.
Yeah, so um fortunate to havehelped 320 people in our
community that have courageouslysaid, like, hey, you know what?
Let's finally get some uh getsome help and then come through
us and trust us to be able toget the resources that they
need.
So um that's it.
Every time I do a podcast, Ijust like to give our updated
therapy statistics, and um,that's pretty much it.
(02:06):
But uh you were in probation fora very, very long time.
Um, did a bunch of specialtyassignments there, um, and then
you did experience somepost-traumatic stress symptoms,
and then you sought out help.
You went through um you wentthrough therapy, you did the eye
movement desensitization andreprocessing, which I'm excited
to hear about how it went foryou.
(02:27):
Um, and now the whole reason whyyou're on here is to share your
story and get the message outthat hey, it's uh it's okay to
not be okay at times and takecare of yourself.
And um, I think that's the partthat our community struggles
with.
But um, I'm excited to hear itfrom you.
So without further ado, Ken,please give us an introduction
(02:47):
of yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (02:49):
First of all, Greg, I just want to thank you for
having me on this show.
And uh when I talked to ShaunaEdwards, who has been on here
before, a very good friend ofmine, um, we were talking about
being able to give back.
And I started my career in 1991uh in probation and working with
abused kids.
And pretty much up until thelast couple years, I just
(03:11):
retired in 2025, so 34 years.
It was very taboo to talk aboutanything mental health.
Um, seen a lot of officerseither commit suicide or get
into drinking, failed marriages,things like that.
So I really appreciate just theopportunity to come out here and
just normalize everything thatum sometimes things just happen
(03:35):
because we go through trauma.
And uh when I get into my story,um I wasn't planning on mine,
mine just became an emergencybasis, so I'll I'll get into
that in a little while.
But yeah, um, I actually went toschool to be a youth pastor.
So I my degree's in theology,and uh God had different plans
for me.
Um I worked in Napa County forjust just about 28 years,
(03:58):
started in Sonoma County,working with abused kids,
working in custody, uh had lotsof great assignments.
I ran my own uh program calledYouth Impact Program, where it
was kind of a uh military bootcamp, but instead of doing
military-style things, we didcognitive behaviors.
And my philosophy was these umjuveniles were already broke
(04:19):
down.
So my job was to build them upand to give them confidence and
to show them success and to getthem out of the system.
So I did that for about 10years.
Um, and I loved it.
I I got to work in the schoolsand uh got to work with a lot of
uh school resource officers andand a lot of administration
staff, was on a lot of differentcoalitions, and so I really
enjoyed that.
(04:40):
Around 2008, I was asked uh tobe on our uh Department of
Judgment, or excuse me,Department of Justice Bureau of
Narcotic Enforcement uh drugforce task team.
Uh what wanted me to do that wasthey just had started a thing in
California called drugendangered child cases, where
(05:01):
they were going after theparents when kids were hurt
because of the parents' drug useor they overdosed on drug use.
So we were just we were juststarting that team, and I was
good in that area, and I reallywanted to do that.
So um that was my main reasonfor you know working on the task
force team.
(05:21):
From 2009 to about 2013, um, allwe did was drugs.
Um Jerry Brown became the thenew governor again and cut the
task force teams from 32 toeight.
Napa County's not a big, bigarea, so we uh we were no longer
(05:42):
a federal task force team.
Um when I came out of there, Ihad met uh the gal Sue Weber
Brown, who got drug-endangeredchildren laws on the boards.
And um, she asked me if I wouldteach for her up and down the
state of California and atseminars and conferences and to
different departments.
(06:03):
And so I took that and I ranwith that.
Um for my last 16 years uhworking in Napa County, I was
our drug and drug-endangeredchild expert.
I came back around I think 2018onto the task force team.
And by then, uh in California,it really there wasn't a lot of
punishment for formethamphetamine and fentanyl and
(06:26):
cocaine and all these formerfelonies.
And we started having a hugehuman trafficking and a huge uh
pimping and pandering issue umaround us.
And then we also really startedhaving fentanyl overdoses.
So our job changed a lot.
Um we started going to uhfentanyl overdoses, heroin
(06:48):
overdoses.
They wanted us to try to see ifwe could find who sold to them,
things like that.
Um, I still did all the workwith um with our child welfare
system.
I'm still part of that teamwhere we would go out and
investigate any kind of childendangerment cases, had a really
good rapport.
Uh that was another stigma whenI came in in 2019 or 2009
(07:10):
originally.
Uh law enforcement and childwelfare didn't really get along
well.
They didn't trust each other.
So, really uh being the thebridge person to that, um,
really developed some greatrelationships and really was
able to solve a a lot of cases alot quicker and to really help a
lot of kids.
Like anything in this in thisfield, I think when you do kid
(07:34):
cases, um that really messeswith your brain.
Uh I talked about I talked aboutShauna.
I knew her as Shauna Murtha for19 years.
Now it's Shauna Edwards, but weworked a lot of cases together.
And I remember her telling meprobably around 2020, she's
like, your brain is injured.
Like you're gonna need you'regonna need help for all this
(07:55):
stuff.
And at the time, I think she wasdoing some brain spotting and
and some EMDR, and I didn'treally know anything about it.
Um, so you know, we talked a lotabout that, and you know, we we
did a lot of things together.
And towards the end of mycareer, you know, and I can't
really talk about some of thestuff because they're still
(08:16):
going through court, but whenyou do when you deal with enough
child death cases and you dealwith, you know, I was dealing
with some human traffickingvictims that were the same size
and age as my own daughter, andI was, you know, a couple girls,
I was the only one they trustedto talk to.
And so you don't really thinkthat that bothers you.
And for me, I I guess gettinginto how it all started for why
(08:40):
I needed to, kind of on an in anemergency basis, why I needed to
start doing some EMDR and somebrain spotting.
Uh, I retired in January of 25.
And probably around April of 25,uh, my dad had a major medical
incident.
I had to take care of him.
And about a couple days later, Iwoke up in fight or flight.
(09:02):
Um, I couldn't sit down.
I probably from about 11 o'clockat night till about five o'clock
in the morning, I cleanedeverything in the house.
I went down in the garage.
I redid like all my tools.
I just my my fight or flight wasjust through the roof.
Um, and that lasted for about 60days.
(09:22):
I couldn't, I went to thedoctors, I went to all this
stuff.
Uh Shauna actually gave me anemergency uh brain spotting
session.
She she hooked me up with atherapist uh through my
insurance.
I also started doing EMDR at thesame time.
Um, and I knew I I used to Iused to tell people like I know
(09:43):
that I'm gonna have to deal withthis at some time because it's
not normal.
I just didn't know it was gonnabe in an emergency basis.
And I basically, for 60 days, Imean, I was probably walking 10
to 15 miles a day.
I just I had so much fight orflight adrenaline and anxiety
and panic attacks, and uh it wasjust really awful.
(10:04):
And like I said, it reallywasn't talked about.
Um fortunately, there was uhthere was another uh former
sheriff that I had worked with.
I didn't know he had experienceda bunch of the stuff, and I saw
his name on on a thing for uhrunning a group or whatever, and
I called him and you know, I waslike, boom, wow, somebody else
(10:27):
understands what I'm goingthrough.
And and he was able to reallykind of like talk me through
everything.
And I, you know, I'd worked withhim a bunch.
He was a detective, he did a lotof kitty crimes.
So just having someone else liketell me, like, hey, this is
okay, you know, like you can getthrough this, and there is help
for you, and uh so I did I didbrain spotting for probably five
(10:52):
or six months, and then Iswitched into the EMDR, and I've
I actually I I went today, so II've continued to go because I
I've got a 25-year-old and I'vegot a 22-year-old, and I also
have an adopted daughter andgrandson that came from Mexico
and got left here, and I don'twant to have anything affect
(11:13):
them, you know what I mean.
And of course, my my lovelywife, you know, who I started my
career with and uh and I endedmy career with, and I want to be
with the rest of my life.
Um having all this mental healthstuff and the trauma, you know,
waking up in the middle of thenight and fight or flight
screaming, you know, stuff likethat.
Uh wasn't easy on my spouse, youknow, wasn't easy on stuff.
(11:37):
So um I'm still very motivatedto just keep working on anything
that comes up and to just kindof get all this behind me so I
don't, you know, um I don'tstill have any of these things.
Uh yeah, I don't have I don'thave a fight or flight where I
can't sit still.
(11:58):
I just now I wake up likesweating and I'll scream
something, you know.
But it's uh definitely gottenbetter and and I'll continue to
keep going.
It's definitely it was alifesaver for me.
SPEAKER_00 (12:09):
Yeah, good.
No, and number one, I want tosay thank you for for sharing
all of that and kind of breakingit down.
I know it's definitely it's notan easy thing, and I I generally
do think that it's gettingbetter.
Um, and like as you mentioned,thankfully for the other sheriff
that that deputy or whoever thatwas had the group that was like,
hey, what you're experiencing,your symptoms.
(12:31):
I've heard this before, like,this is why we started this, or
we have fellow first respondersin the group that have displayed
the same symptoms as you.
So then that triggers like, ohman, like okay, I'm not alone in
this.
Yes, like it's a common thing,right?
And a question that I have foryou is 28 years of doing all of
this, did you realize that,like, hey, you're
(12:55):
compartmentalizing all this andyou'll deal with this shit
later?
And if so, like, how many timesdid that happen?
And did you just continue topush it and push it or and think
it was gonna get better or goaway?
SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
So here's the interesting thing.
My therapist for brain spottingand my therapist for EMDR both
said, I've never seen someone beable to compartmentalize more
things and do their job thanyou.
And what was interesting is whenI was really going through it
(13:27):
and doing the brain spotting,when my body had enough, I
literally would fall asleep inthe chair during therapy.
And I took my wife one time sothat the therapist could explain
to her what was going on, andshe thought that I just was
falling asleep and not payingattention.
(13:48):
And the therapist says, No, hedoes this all the time when his
body's had enough.
So I knew, like when I talked toShauna and she said your brain's
injured, I knew that I wouldhave to deal with this stuff,
and I planned to deal with this.
I just didn't think it would betwo months into my retirement
and just like yeah, just boom,it just it all leaked out, and
(14:11):
you know, not not having the youknow, to go to work and do all
the stuff and to be responsibleand to help other people, and my
body finally relaxed and it justit all came out and it was
unexpected.
And I mean, I'm I'm glad I don'thave you know I don't have any
regrets.
I I knew that I was gonna haveto do that.
Um I you know, it just it wassomething I knew was there, but
(14:36):
I guess I compartmentalized itso well that it never affected
me at work, you know what Imean.
Yeah I mean obviously I when Itaught up and down the state, I
used to tell people, well, ifyou learn one thing here, you
know, just treat these kids likewhen you go in, they're they're
not a piece of property, they'renot evidence.
Treat them like you would wantsomeone to treat your own kid
(14:59):
because this is gonna affectyou, you know what I mean.
We all have black sheep in ourfamily, we all, you know, we've
all have kids, you know,usually, and that's when I I
knew it affected me because ofall the kids stuff, you know
what I mean?
And I just didn't I didn't knowhow bad it affected me until it
all seeped out.
SPEAKER_00 (15:19):
Yeah, yeah.
And those like so all like thethe ICAC, the internet crimes
against children, the humantrafficking, the pimping with
children, like I've heard thatcountless times where um where
it's like it should be mandatoryfor those detectives or
investigators to have atherapist to have some sort of
outlet because like and likewhat you mentioned, Ken, same
(15:41):
thing is a lot of my buddiesthat have been detectives and
doing ICAT cases and all thisstuff, they also have kids.
SPEAKER_01 (15:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:47):
And it's like, how are you supposed to go home and
see that?
And then um, circling back toretirement, literally three,
what, three months after youretire, your body slows down,
you're not going the calls,you're not doing the job, and
then it's like your body'sfinally realizing that, like,
okay, things are slowing down.
Now it's time to hit you withwhat you've been experiencing
(16:10):
throughout your entire career.
And that's why I think one ofthe main reasons is um why we're
seeing so many suicides amongstretirees within the first year
of retirement.
Like it's supposed to be thisclaimer, hey, you worked your
ass off for 25, 30, 35 years.
Now go enjoy retirement, go onvacations, do some stuff with
(16:33):
the wife, enjoy, like relax.
But if we're not taking care ofourselves throughout the career,
then what happened to you isgonna happen to me and everybody
else, right?
Like you're gonna compart andmonolize it for 25, 30, 35
years.
You think retirement's gonna bethis grand thing, and then boom,
you have to deal with all thisstuff, and you're not with the
(16:55):
crew anymore.
You don't have the employmentassistant program, you don't
have the peer support.
Um it's it's a challenging time,I think, for the for the
retirees.
And I feel like the retireeskind of get left in the dark
sometimes.
SPEAKER_01 (17:09):
Yeah, yeah, I I I agree on that 100%.
And I remember, you know, in mycareer when people that were
doing a lot of the kitty crimesstarted having some issues, and
and I can remember people notwanting to work with them, you
know, like they were, like theywere, you know, they had leprosy
or something like that from theold the old times or something.
(17:31):
It was like, I'm like, wow, talkabout like being insensitive to
somebody that's doing a greatjob and dealing with this, you
know.
But yeah, I I was like, I was Ididn't really understand it, you
know.
And now when I look back on itand I've talked to those people,
I I just feel bad that we didn'thave more support back then.
(17:51):
But hey, I mean we're adaptingand and it's it's pretty common
now, and they're finallyadmitting like in 34 years, I I
had no secondary trauma traininguntil my last five years.
So I started in 91, I ended in2025, but it wasn't until five
years, you know, about 2020,that I ever even heard secondary
trauma.
SPEAKER_00 (18:10):
Yeah, yeah.
And that and that's why I dothink like the past five years,
I want to say, and like talk,we've been around since 2021,
just doing the podcast.
Granted, we were we were nothingbig in the beginning, um, but it
was exact conversations likethis.
Like we were talking about whenthey got hired, what if they
were a deputy coroner, a policeofficer, firefighter,
(18:31):
dispatcher, when they wentthrough the academy, did they
get any mental health training?
And then what was the stigmalike?
Were people reaching out?
And then we had everybody in thecommunity on, including service
members, and it was like that'swhen we realized we're like,
okay, boom, we need to turn thisinto a nonprofit where we can
contract culturally competenttherapists and then have a
(18:53):
smooth and confidential processto get our community connected
to them because of what welearned from the podcast.
So um, yeah, I mean, I amdefinitely glad to hear that
it's getting better, and I'veI've seen it as well.
We are seeing a lot of suicidestill and a lot of people not
wanting to go get help, but I Idon't think that we're ever
going to see every single firstresponder or service member
(19:15):
getting help every time thatthey feel a way.
Um, I don't think we can everget to that point, no matter
what.
Um, but something that does helpare these conversations, like I
mentioned.
And I do want to have you talkabout um brain spotting and EMDR
for a few minutes.
Um, and kind of like yourinitial thoughts if you were
(19:35):
like, oh, this is funky.
I'm supposed to do some clickingor tapping, whichever form you
did of EMDR, and then kind ofthe results and how you feel
about it now.
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
Well, I could say one thing.
Um, when I first was goingthrough this and they would tell
me to breathe or do whatever, Iwanted to punch to punch them.
You know what I mean?
This wasn't my brain spottingpeople or whatever.
I'm like, if I could breathe andsit still, I would be doing it.
You know what I mean?
Um, so EMDR and brain spottingis nothing like that.
Um, what really sold me was whenI did that emergency brain
(20:09):
spotting with Shauna.
And, you know, we were doing theyou know different stuff in the
room on a case, and I can't talkabout the case because because
it's still going.
Um, but the interesting thing iswhere I felt the anxiety and the
stress in the room, she cameback and she said, Well, let me
(20:30):
ask you, when you guys madeentry and you found the dead
body, where was it at?
And I'm like, Well, it was onthe right side of the room,
right over here.
And that's where I was feelingwhen she moved the when she
moved the brain spotting tapper.
And I was like, No way, likethere's no way, like this has
gotta, this has gotta havesomething to it here, you know.
There's no way that she wouldknow that.
(20:51):
I've never talked to her aboutthat, you know what I mean?
And like after that, I was justreally sold.
And and then, you know, I mean,obviously I couldn't see her
because we were good friends andall that stuff, but she set me
up with a really good lady in myarea, and it just did wonders.
I mean, every I mean, everythingthat you know I was going
(21:12):
through, we were able to tobrain spot that, and then we,
you know, and then we moved intothe EMDR, and I'm kind of ADD,
ADHD, and so having you know,having the the rapid movement in
my pulses in my hand, and alsothe lights at times and
different that worked for mybrain.
That worked a lot because if youjust tell me, oh, visualize,
(21:33):
whatever, I I my brain doesn'twork like that.
I'm just like this is yeah, I'mlike, you know, especially in
our thing, it's like, okay, thisis my crock of crack, you know
what I mean.
So I was very happy with allthat stuff and and amazed, you
know, amazed at how how doingthe rapid movement and all the
other stuff, how it reallydesensitized and let me work
(21:56):
through, you know, several deathcases and several, you know.
Rape cases and just differentthings like that that I dealt
with that were, you know, wakingme up in fight or flight, um,
and you know, putting me inpanic attacks and you know,
things like that.
Um it was just amazing to me howworking through that, you know,
um really helped.
(22:17):
And and I'll say it's not easy.
Like, like last last week I dida two-hour session, and I mean,
I really thought I was gonna getsick in the session.
I I felt very nauseous becauseit was just really dredging up
some hard stuff, you know what Imean?
But my body's been holding itfor a long time and it needed to
(22:40):
release that.
And like today, when I went,being able to talk about that
and telling my therapist, like,yeah, you know, like that was
that was one of the roughestphysically, emotionally ones
I've dealt with in 18 months,you know what I mean?
Um, but understanding theprocess and understanding that
my body was finally releasingsome stuff that had really been
(23:03):
fighting to not come out andfighting for just to stay
compartmentalized, you know whatI mean?
SPEAKER_00 (23:09):
So, question with that.
Um, do you feel like now havingbeen through brain spotting EMDR
and getting the help that youyou need?
And I know it's a lot of work,but you're making progress and
everything.
Do you think that if you startedthis earlier on in your career,
that your career would have beendifferent, you would have felt
(23:32):
different, and then retirementwould have been different?
SPEAKER_01 (23:35):
I I definitely know I wouldn't have had to deal with
this on an emergency basis.
I mean, 100% I guarantee youthat.
Um and I don't think I don'tthink it the depth of of the
compartmentalization that Iburied it with would have been
like that because I would havedealt with that, you know.
(23:57):
I mean, like if you have a ifyou have a critical incident
shooting, you know, they, youknow, whoever's involved, you
have to go to the therapist, youhave to talk about, you know,
you have to do all that stuff.
That's it.
None of this other stuff that wedeal with.
Do you have to meet withsomebody and do you have to talk
about things or even ever dealwith it?
(24:17):
You know, you just stuff it.
You just stuff it.
So yeah, I definitely, Idefinitely think just even, I
mean, a good thing aboutworking, you know, on a team,
you know, we would debriefstuff, we would do things, but
never, never really like, heyman, like I'm really struggling
with this.
Like, I'm, you know, havingpanic attacks, or I woke up last
(24:40):
night.
It just, once again, it itwasn't talked about.
That would have been likealienating yourself from the
team, you know what I mean?
So I think if we would have hadthat when we had really horrible
cases and the you know, thedeaths and all the other things
like that, I think that wouldhave really helped.
You know, I definitely thinkthat would have helped me early
on in my career, you know.
I I don't I tell everybody likeI don't I thank God for putting
(25:05):
me where he did, and I wouldn'tchange, I wouldn't change a
thing.
I you know, I think I wascompassionate and being able to
understand all this and and andpeople always told me
everything, you know, victimsalways told me everything, which
was good and bad.
I had to, I had to carry a lotmore, but at least they finally
got the help that they needed,you know what I mean?
(25:27):
Um so in that retrospect, Iwouldn't change anything.
I I would have liked our wholefield in general to talk about
it more, but hey, we're makingprogress now, and and your show
is great, your foundation isgreat.
Uh, we are blessed in Napa.
We have that retreat for notonly first responders, but for
(25:48):
their spouses, you know, becauseI I've you know, I have friends
that are spouses whose, youknow, you know, their husband or
wife killed themselves, you knowwhat I mean?
So it's like, you know, theyneed it too, and their kids need
it, you know.
So I mean, I feel very blessedthat that we're getting that
kind of stuff now, and it's andit's being it's being talked
about.
I mean, that's just a huge stepum in our in our line of work.
(26:11):
Um, one thing I've foundinteresting, and I don't know if
you've you've heard about this,but obviously a lot of military
people are drawn to lawenforcement because it's
similar.
But I've been doing a lot ofreading and studying, and
they're saying one thing that'sreally bad is you're getting
people from the military thatalready have a lot of trauma,
(26:33):
and then you're traumatizingthem again, and they're going
right into law enforcement.
So they haven't dealt with thetrauma, they haven't dealt with
the trauma of the military andbeing in at war, you know, and
now they're going right into thesame war, you know what I mean?
And so I've been trying to be alot more sensitive to my friends
that had both both militaryspecial ops.
(26:56):
You know, by the time when Iended, I think I had four guys
on my team that had been specialops.
And a couple of them, you know,they used to tell me I didn't
expect to live past 26, youknow.
I mean, that's just the kind ofteam I was on, you know.
So uh, you know, understandingthat they've got even more stuff
that they're dealing with, youknow.
So that's kind of a thing thatI've been trying to work with
with friends and and and formerco-workers that had military and
(27:17):
went right into law enforcement.
SPEAKER_00 (27:19):
Yeah, no, I I like that, and I think that's that's
a good thing that you're doingthat.
And like, for example, today Ijust went to a recruiting event
for our police department atFort Polk in Louisiana in uh
Louisiana, and um and it's easyto get prior military on as a
police officer, firefighter, allthat stuff.
But perfect example of that isone of my buddies, Shane Hart.
(27:40):
He was in the Marine Corps, hewas a scout sniper, and um, then
he worked at the Daily CityPolice Department with me.
We were on the SWAT team, andunfortunately, he um he took his
own life January of this year.
So um absolutely thank you.
Yeah, it's just absolutelytragic.
And um, but we are definitelymaking making strides.
So I do have two last questionsfor you.
I'll start with the first one.
(28:01):
What is one piece of advice thatyou would give to a first
responder that's maybe five toten years into their career
right now?
SPEAKER_01 (28:13):
My best advice would be if you know that you've dealt
with traumatic cases to startworking on them now.
And there's nothing wrong, evenif it's not affecting you,
there's nothing wrong with justgoing to either a counselor or
(28:34):
an EMDR um therapist.
There's nothing wrong withstarting the process now before
it gets like my situation whereyou have to deal with it because
you can't function.
You know, you can't sit down.
So I mean that would be my bestadvice is just um just just know
that.
I I know like I did the thingswhere I always worked out, I
(28:58):
went to church, I coached mykids, I did the stuff like that
for survival, you know what Imean?
But I didn't do the stuff formyself as far as like
therapeutic and counseling.
Um, I knew not to, you know,wall myself off and not do you
know healthy things, you know,physically, but I wasn't taking
(29:20):
care of my mental health sidebecause I just compartmentalized
it so well it didn't affect meuntil now.
SPEAKER_00 (29:28):
Like what the the that's the common thing too.
That's just what it's uh a lotof time, it's just easier to
easier to do that, and you don'twant to get ridiculed or skipped
down on promotions or can go onand on with that.
Um I appreciate you sharingthat.
It's a good piece of advice.
And our last question, uh, weask everybody at the end of the
podcast.
(29:48):
Our motto at the OverwatchCollective is one more is one
less.
SPEAKER_01 (29:53):
I'm sorry, I didn't I didn't get all that.
SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
Our motto at the Overwatch Collective is one more
is one less.
SPEAKER_01 (29:59):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
So it comes from uh a soldier who lost more fronts
to suicide upon return stateside than actually overseas.
So um, so we always say, like,one more person we can help is
one less struggling, etc.
Um, so what we like to do is weask our guests at the end of the
episode what one more is oneless means to them.
So if you want to take a momentand then share it with that.
SPEAKER_01 (30:24):
I mean, like I shared at the beginning, the the
whole reason I'm doing thispodcast is because if I can help
one person that's going throughthis and it not only saves their
life, it saves their family'slife because if they're gone,
their family's suffering too.
And um I have no, I have no tome, I have no pride, I have no
(30:52):
shame that this happened to meand I've had to deal with this,
and I want people to know likeit's okay.
You know what I mean?
You don't have to do this alone,and it will get better, and you
don't have to make suicide anoption, you know.
There's help out there, andpeople aren't gonna stigmatize
you, and you can't worry aboutthat stuff.
You gotta take care of yourselfand your family by getting the
(31:15):
help that you need.
It's caused by what we dealwith.
This is not normal, we don'tdeal with normal things.
SPEAKER_00 (31:23):
Definitely not.
No, definitely not.
Well, um, to kind of wrap it up,I just want to say once again,
thank you for coming on.
Thank you for obviously that thegoal of the podcast is is to
share your story um and tonormalize it.
You know what I mean?
Like you just said it perfectly.
Um, and I'm I'm proud of you.
(31:45):
I'm glad that you're getting thehelp now.
And I'm sure that your yourfamily's seeing a difference as
well, and you're seeing adifference within yourself, and
that's you know, I mean, we wantto go up the roller coaster, and
it seems like you're going up itinstead of down.
So um that makes me happy.
I'm glad to hear that.
And uh shout out to Shauna forgetting us connected.
SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
Yeah, appreciate that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:04):
Yeah, of course.
So um kind of wraps it up.
That's all that I have, unlessyou have anything else or any
last-minute thoughts.
SPEAKER_01 (32:12):
No, I mean, uh you you've got my you've got my
contact information.
And I mean, if there's anyonethat's hearing this that has
questions or needs to reach outto me, I mean, feel free to give
them my email.
Um, just put in the title, likeI heard your podcast or
whatever, you know what I mean.
Um, I don't I don't want anyoneto feel like they don't have
(32:32):
someone out there, and you know,they can more I'm more than
welcome to talk to them or youknow, give them advice or just
be someone to listen to them ifthat's what they need.
SPEAKER_00 (32:42):
Yeah, I think you're a uh perfect candidate for our
buddy program.
So I'll send you the link after,but we have uh we have over 30
buddies on our website whereit's essentially just like what
you said it's a photo, bio,email, and then a podcast that
gets linked.
Um podcast with them, and it'skind of just like, hey, my
name's Ken, and I've been herefor 28 years.
(33:04):
This is what I've experienced.
If you need someone to talk toor anything, then and we've
heard great success from that.
So um, total free resource, andsometimes it's kind of nice to
reach out to a complete strangerinstead of somebody that you
know.
So um I think you'd be a perfectcandidate for it.
SPEAKER_01 (33:20):
Yeah, thank you.
I'd be honored to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (33:22):
Yeah, awesome, sweet.
Um, yeah, once again, Ken,appreciate you coming on.
Everybody, I hope you enjoyed uhseason 11, episode six with Ken.
Um, Ken, thank you for yourservice.
Thanks for everything thatyou've done for the community.
I'm sure countless, countless,countless victims, children that
you've helped and everything.
Appreciate you, brother.
unknown (33:42):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (33:42):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (33:43):
All right, everybody.
Take care.
God bless, man.
SPEAKER_01 (33:45):
All right, take care.
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