June 10, 2026 • 23 mins
{Stereo Audio + Re-upload}
Skinny cigars have a reputation for “purity,” and big ring gauges get labeled as a trend. We want to cut through the noise and talk about what actually happens when thick Nicaraguan tobacco meets a small circumference. From the factory floor to the farms, we’ve seen how leaf texture, airflow, and burn temperature can make the difference between a cool, flavorful smoke and a tight draw that turns sharp and hot.
We dig into why Nicaraguan tobacco grows so thick and oily, how water and sun affect the leaf, and why that richness often needs more surface space to perform. We also connect the dots to classic Cuban and Dominican sizes and explain why thinner formats can be easier when the tobacco itself is thinner. Then we get practical: what we consider small ring gauge vs large ring gauge, why 46 to 60 often delivers the best balance, and why the wrapper leaf contributes real flavor but nowhere near the “70%” myth.
If you like a smaller mouthfeel, we cover smart compromises that keep blend complexity intact, including torpedo cigars, belicosos, and box-pressed cigars that feel slimmer while still burning like a bigger ring gauge should. If you care about value, we also explain why larger formats can deliver more of the blend without forcing you to pay double.
Subscribe for more cigar education from our day-to-day work in tobacco and manufacturing, share this with a friend who argues ring gauge, and leave a review telling us what size you reach for most.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Today we have somewhat it can be a
controversial subject, but youknow what?
Who cares?
That's my opinion.
And I don't either.
Hi, I'm Nicholas Perdomo withPerdomo Cigars, and I'm
alongside my dad, Nick Perdomo,and you are watching the Perdomo
podcast.
(00:20):
Dad, welcome.
This subject, which is aboutsmall versus large ring-gauge
cigars, right?
And really what do we considerthem to be?
Coming from you, 30 years ofexperience from the factory
floors to the farming to everyto blending to every single
process, right?
I think we can agree that notall cigars smoke the same.
(00:42):
And at the end of the day,there's just some cigars,
because of the tobaccos that weuse, that we really that don't
work for us to make.
I think that's really thebiggest thing.
SPEAKER_00 (00:52):
No doubt about it.
There's people that have Italianrestaurants and there's people
that have, you know, hot dogstands.
I mean, everything's different.
It's what you like.
SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
Everything's different, but it's one of those
things where I think today's agreat opportunity, especially
for you, to really share theyour real experience.
Because at the end of the day,you've made every cigar for the
most part, from starting out ofyour garage, going into Flagler
Street, you know, in South Miamito going to Nicaragua where
we're currently at today overthe last three decades.
(01:20):
And so that's something to me,in my opinion, that it's a great
opportunity to talk about this.
So what I really want to getinto is we've talked about in
previous episodes primings,right?
We work with very thick type oftobaccos, right, in terms of
heavy textures, right?
So if you could talk a littlebit about the tobacco texture in
Nicaragua.
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
Because of our volcanic grounds and the amount
of organic matter that we have,which is extremely fertile
naturally, the tobaccos inNicaragua are much thicker than
tobaccos from other countries.
And that's just natural becauseof the ground contents, the
mineral contents, the amount ofmagnesium, the amount of
calcium, the amount ofpotassium, phosphorus, and
nitrogen, which are basicallylike your vitamins, minerals,
(02:06):
your carbohydrates, your youknow, you've it's got
everything, minerals that thebody needs, and that's what the
tobacco needs.
And Nicaragua is unlike anyother country in the world
because it provides everything,including an abundance amount of
water, a tremendous amount ofsunshine.
And what happens is with thatphotosynthesis, the textures of
the tobaccos are so thick, hencewhy we have to come up with
(02:26):
bigger ring gauges sometimes,which is a big win for the
customer.
SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
Right.
Yeah, 100%.
And, you know, I think when youlook at it, we have systems like
drip irrigation, right?
In terms of, you know, we neverwe don't rely on rainwater and
we don't rely on sprinklers.
And a lot of that stuff, as youtaught me, washes away all those
oils and those resins and thewith the flavor that you get.
So on top of it, we keep thatbecause all the all our water
(02:51):
comes from underground.
We drive it.
SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
We actually grow in the drought purposely.
So the only thing that getswater on a tobacco plant is the
roots, which is the mostimportant thing it needs, not
actually on top of the leaves.
SPEAKER_01 (03:01):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (03:02):
And so that's something to me that's very
important to also bring up aswell.
And I guess in the next segmentthat I'd like to talk about, and
you know, historically in ourfamily going back, I mean, our
family, you know, we're we'reCuban, right?
And so everything goes back toCuba in regards to, you know, su
cigars, right?
You know, our family got in themid-1800s, went from Canary
(03:25):
Islands in Spain to Cuba.
We left in the early 60s.
You know, we have over a hundredyears of of our family in Cuba.
And so, you know, when you lookat it all started there, right?
But all the cigars were small,real thinner type of ring
gauges, your panatellas, yourcoronas, Lonsdales, things like
that.
And eventually everybody went tothe Dominican Republic.
(03:46):
And kind of there's a fairthere's a big similarity, right?
And both and both of thosecountries have very similar
textures and leaves and soforth.
So if you could explain a littlebit why thinner tobacco pretty
much works better, I'm sorry,thinner type of cigars works
better for Dominican Republicand Cuba.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
Well, because exactly what you hit, the
thinner tobaccos.
Plus, believe it or not, it's alot more profitable to make
thinner cigars than thickercigars.
In the perfect world, I'd makethinner cigars, but in reality,
you'd never be able to taste therobust taste that Nicaragua
produces.
And I want to make cigars thathave all that flavor
characteristic.
(04:25):
But to make a thin cigar at 30pounds a thousand, a filler
versus a thick cigar that takes70 to 75 pounds a thousand, I
can't charge double.
So the consumer gets a lot ofbang for their buck with a
Perdomo cigar, and they get acigar that smokes cooler, has a
lot more flavor.
It's no different than aspaghetti sauce.
If it has salt, pepper, garlic,basil, oregano, saffron,
(04:46):
whatever you're going to put inthe sauce, those more
ingredients as they meld,there's a lot more flavor in the
sauce than just putting salt init.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
Well, that's why when we look, and you know, for
us, a 54 ring gauge is reallyoptimum, you know, for burning,
for taste, burns coolers,balance, complex flavors.
And because of those type ofingredients you talk about and
going back to the previousepisode with seco, viso, ligero,
tobaccos that, you know, salt,pepper, garlic powder.
(05:13):
Within that type of ring gauge,we can really show the blend.
Like when we were talking aboutdon't look at the wrapper, start
really, you know, when yousmoke, smoke and think about
those filler tobaccos, theproportions of tobaccos that we
use.
That specific ring gauge reallyprovides, you know, the most
optimum experience and flavorfor us of thick, heavy, rich
(05:34):
Nicaraguan tobaccos.
And so I think it's important.
So, and my next question is iswhat happens when you try to
force, like in smaller raingauge, when you try to force,
for example, Lijero, right?
Your thickest leaf, highest upon the plant, get the most sun
exposure, takes the most amountof time to ferment, to age, and
(05:55):
so forth.
What happens when you try totake those thick tobaccos and
force them into a smaller raingauge?
SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
First thing is you can't put much in there.
And I think you cheat thecustomer because a lot of
Lanceros and Coronas andLawnsdale's have no Lijeto in
them.
Right.
Because it stops up the tobaccoand the cigar usually won't
draw.
So we make a five bythirty-eight Purito, all
handmade.
We literally take a Chevetta,which is a blade that the roller
uses to cut the wrapper, and weactually cut it in strips.
(06:23):
Imagine cutting 500,000 stripsto make 500,000 cigars.
It's crazy.
It's crazy.
I'd rather use the full leaf.
It's going to have much moreflavor than not having that
flavor.
And then you look at a cigarlike this.
So this is the Prodomo 10thanniversary champagne, Corona
Extra, five and five eighths by46, an old Cuban size.
(06:47):
That cigar has a half a leaf ofLee Handle because that's all I
can fit in a 46.
Right.
Then you look at a cigar likethis, a 6x48 Prodomo 20th
anniversary, Corona Grande, acigar named after you.
It was it was your cigar.
It was the size you liked.
I can only put three-quarters ofa leaf in there to make that
cigar taste right.
But when you take a 54, I canuse two leaves.
(07:09):
If I take a 56, I can take twofull leaves.
That's a lot more flavor, biggercircumference, more coolness.
Cigar is going to be a loteasier to smoke at the same
time.
And you know what?
With the box pressing, it's gotthat thinner texture.
SPEAKER_01 (07:25):
It's very comfortable in the mouth, I
think.
Right.
And I guess one of the questionsand the big question, and our
audience is now listening interms, they're probably
wondering, well, what do youguys consider to be small versus
large ring gauge cigars?
And what is the percentage ofwhat percentage of flavor does
the rapper impart on a cigar?
(07:45):
So if you can explain, what iswhat do we at Perdomo Cigars
consider to be small ring gaugeand what do we consider to be
large or really optimum ringgauge?
SPEAKER_00 (07:53):
I think anything between 28 and 44, 64ths of an
inch is a small ring gauge cigartoday.
And as as time has gone on,people are looking for bigger
and bigger cigars, more and moreflavor.
Now, when you get above the 62sand 64s, you really get a little
bigger than than what I normallysmoke, but that's fine.
(08:15):
It's what people like, right?
Of course.
And I think the optimum forlarge ring-gauge cigars or a
minimum of 46 and up, right isbasically what it is.
SPEAKER_01 (08:25):
Yeah.
And I think 46 to 60 is oursweet spot because at least we
can pretty much put put in a 46and a 48.
Pretty much you can put most ofthe Lejado into it, even though
you take a little bit of a stripoff of it, because we want to
make sure that the cigar drawsand burns correctly and so
forth.
But, you know, again, from ourfive and five eighths by 46
(08:45):
corona extra that we offer inchampagne, our six and a half by
48 corona grande that we offerin 20th anniversary, all the way
up to our six by sixties thatyou know we offer in all of our
brand portfolios.
But going back to the secondquestion, in your opinion, and
we've talked about this, butagain, I think it's very
important to reiterate it.
What percentage of flavor doesthe rapper impart on a cigar?
SPEAKER_00 (09:08):
In my personal opinion, between 10 and 15% of
the total flavor, which is quitea bit.
It is a lot.
And I've I've mentioned this inprevious episodes.
It's the final dress of thecigar.
But you taste it because it'ssitting right on your lips.
But it does actually impartquite a bit.
I've seen some stuff, you know,70% flavor.
(09:29):
That's ludicrous.
You know, one of the greatthings I'm excited about this
podcast is the consumers and theretailers who are listening to
us worldwide really want to knowthe skinny of it.
We're the guys who are on thefactory floor every day.
100% we're the guys in the boxcompany every day.
We're the guys walking to farmsevery day.
We're the guys who work in thesorting and selecting facility
(09:50):
and look at things, we're theguys who blend cigars.
We're not the guys who walk in afactory once a year and write
something and all of a suddenthey become a cigar expert.
Yeah.
You know, we do it, and we're soproud to be able to give our
knowledge to the consumerbecause I respect every one of
you because you really want toknow the skinny on something you
(10:11):
enjoy and you're passionateabout, which is cigars.
And I love doing it.
I'm proud to be able to do it,and I want to thank everybody
that's listening, that listensinto our podcast because it's
important.
And I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (10:22):
Yeah, Dad.
And I think overall the blend,again, going back to the
previous episode, the blend, thefiller tobaccos, those
proportions of seco viso ligerothat are the majority of the
leaves within a cigar, right?
95%.
Well, yeah, because you got oneone leaf.
Like when I hear people talkabout 70% of the flavor comes
from a wrapper.
(10:42):
If I was to use two leaves, awrapper leaf and a filler leaf,
and I just use that wrapperleaf, that's two leaves.
So you're basically telling me50% of the leaf, which is come
on, how where do you get 70?
Are you using one tenth of aleaf to over one?
I mean, it makes no sense, butit's just it angers me, but I'm
so glad that we bring somethingup to life because we've been
hearing about it for so long,and you've spent decades going
(11:03):
to retail stores and reallyeducating consumers.
But I think the overall missionof the Prodomo podcast is to get
to the masses.
Because I've never seen in mylife consumers so engaged to
learn more.
And I and as a manufacturer, andI know I can speak on behalf of
you, I'm so grateful for it.
(11:26):
And so this is something that isour obligation to our consumers,
even to our retailers, becausewe want to share everything.
There are no secrets of Perdomocigars.
We don't have when you go to ourfactories and you know,
consumers have been, we don'tsay, Oh, you can't go in this,
this is a this area, and youcan't walk here.
We bring everybody to ourfactory.
(11:46):
We have nothing to hide.
That's the most beautiful thingabout this this company that you
created, is we have nothing tohide.
And we're definitely never goingto hide the truth and
information to our consumers andto cigar lovers that are trying
to learn.
SPEAKER_00 (12:00):
Yeah, they deserve to know the the truth and all
the information, something theylove.
And like I said earlier, I loveto be able to show.
It's like when people come onour factory tours, we love it.
We love doing them.
And I know Arthur and I that dothem, and and you, we we love
talking to our consumers and ourretailers and showing our pride
and our passion, our love forour cigars, and instilling that
(12:23):
loving where they see ourworkforce and seeing the love
that they have in producing thebest and how happy they are when
a consumer walks up to a rollerand says, Hey man, I've been
smoking these cigars for 30years and I love them, and you
see the smile on the face of ouremployees, that's what it's all
about.
SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
Well, consistency, quality, and excellence has uh
has always been our mantra andalways will be our mantra.
And I think, you know, goinginto the next question, if you
know, I think we can give acouple points, but I'd like for
you to start in terms of smallring gauge cigars, right?
So the 28 to 44 ring gauge, whydo those sizes struggle to
(13:00):
perform?
If you can give a couple points,struggle to perform with
Nicaraguan tobaccos.
SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
Because our tobaccos are too thick and they don't
work in such a smallcircumference.
And it's not your grandfather'sOldsmobile anymore.
People have moved up and are aresmoking different things, and we
have to go with the times.
Right.
You know, people used to likeextremely mild cigars, like I
said in a previous episode inthe 90s.
(13:27):
People today would smoke thosecigars and say, oh my God, these
have no flavor.
Because as time comes on, weknow that the imports of cigars
into the United States ofAmerica, about 68% is comes from
Nicaragua today.
Well, that's why you blendedPerdomo Champagne.
100%.
And what happens is now you'retalking about the majority of
American consumers and smokers,they are by far, if you took the
(13:51):
whole world together, Americanssmoke more cigars by accident,
the whole world smokes together.
And they want more and moreflavor, and that's what
Nicaragua gives them.
SPEAKER_01 (14:02):
100%.
But I think when you look at thesmall ring-gauge cigars and
trying to force, you know,thick, heavy, rich Nicaraguan
filler tobaccos into the intothe blend, you create less
airflow, right?
So you have you have tightdraws, you know, real real hard
to smoke, you know, combustiontemperatures get get, you know,
(14:24):
they get hot, the cigar.
When you try it, burns hot, andyou get almost this acrid type
of harsh type of flavors.
You know, even limit, you know,going back, limit you can, you
know, you can't if you can't doit, then you got to limit the
amount of seiko viso ligero.
So I can never fully express theblend to have the flavors that I
want in those small sizes,again, because of the thick
(14:46):
tobaccos that we're using.
But another thing, too, is isyou create sharpness and almost
aggressive type of flavors thatpeople unfortunately I think
can, you know, we all talk aboutwe always talk about complexity
in the cigar, right?
And sometimes harshness can be,in my opinion, I think people m
misinterpret that as complexity.
(15:07):
Harshness is not enjoyable, youknow, and there's more of an
edge to the cigar.
SPEAKER_00 (15:12):
100% because you have such a small circumference
and you're trying to build thatflavor characteristic in such a
small thing.
Look, I'm not saying if peoplelike tiny little cigars and
stuff, that's wrong.
I want people to enjoy whateverthey like.
But I think I think a biggerring-gauge cigar like a 52, a
54, a 56, is extremelyenjoyable.
(15:33):
We see it in the sales.
Look, we love these cigars, andthese cigars sell well.
But the standardized new sizestoday perform much better for a
reason.
The smoker wants more bang forhis buck.
Right.
And he's getting it with thesering gauge sizes.
And we're happy about it.
And you really get to taste thewhole powder the way the cigar
(15:53):
was intended to be tasted by theblenders, because you get
everything that you want in thatcigar, and it's very enjoyable.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_01 (16:00):
Well, this goes to my my next question.
Why why do larger ring gaugesshine, truly allow the
Nicaraguan tobaccos to shine?
unknown (16:09):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (16:09):
Because you get to taste all the flavor
characteristics of the seco, ofthe viso, the mild to medium
cigars, the Lijados, thedifferent visos that are put on
to produce that complexity,which is that evolving flavor
that comes harmonious with a bigbinder that produces flavor on
top of it, the wrapper over top.
You really get to tasteeverything.
(16:30):
It's like that sauce, thatspaghetti sauce we had talked
about earlier, where you get totaste all the garlic and the
oregano and the basil and thesalt and the pepper and
everything just tastes so good.
And then you age those cigars.
It's like your mom's sauce.
It's got two or three days onit, it tastes better than the
first day it came in, right?
So it's the same thing with thecigar.
And I think we hit it rightright where it needs to be hit
(16:52):
at before when we when we shipthese cigars around the world.
They get the taste of flavor theway it was intended to be, and
they get to taste all of itbecause of those ring gauge
sizes.
SPEAKER_01 (17:00):
Right.
And I think, you know, outsideof more airflow, cooler burn
temperature, which means you getmore flavor, right?
Yes.
You know, full primings, youknow, in terms of Seiko Visa
Lujero, we were able to properlyformat that and proportion it
out to those specific blendscorrectly and enhance flavors.
But I think something that, youknow, I think an opportunity for
(17:22):
the the people who do enjoysmaller ring-age cigars, I think
when you look at our portfolio,torpedoes, comes right, you
know, if you cut a torpedoproperly, right, which every
cigar we make, every brand wemake, we have a torpedo size,
right?
Outside of our Perdomo 12 yeardouble-aged vintage, but every
brand has a torpedo.
And so if you properly cut thatcigar, if you cut a quarter of
(17:44):
an inch off, you are getting aconcentrated flavor with a big
ring-gauge feel.
If it's a 54 or 56 body, thecigar, and you properly cut that
head, you're getting a smaller,you're getting a smaller figure
within within your mouth whenyou smoke the cigar, but you're
getting that full experience ofthose filler tobaccos.
Another thing, too, in ProdomoLegacy, Gram Bellicoso, you
(18:04):
know, Dad, it's incredible.
That cigar, since we releasedthat last year, and we're going
on a year, which is I can'tbelieve, that cigar is selling
like crazy.
Because between box pressing thecigar, giving a 48 head with a
with a 60 body, and it feelsalmost more like a 46 because of
that press.
I mean, that cigar is sellinglike crazy, which I'm really
(18:26):
proud of.
But the next big one, and wetalked about this episode one,
Perdomo Legacy, father and son.
We created a size, you and Ijust writing down in a pen and a
paper.
What cigar do we want?
What cigar can properly give thefull expression of Nicaraguan
tobaccos that we're usingoutside of the incredible
Nicaraguan shade grown tobaccothat's completely proprietary to
(18:47):
us?
What can we do with 48 head,right?
48 beautiful 48 ring gauge, 48by 64 of an inch ring gauge
head, 60 body, 52 foot, right?
And completely box pressed onall four sides, which I can't
wait for the consumers and theand the markets worldwide to try
(19:08):
these cigars because this size,it's a parallel cigar, which
people want parallel cigars, butyou get concentration from light
from light from from puffing onthe 48 head with the initial
light of the 52 ring gauge, andthen a complete expansion of
flavor from when that 52 ringgauge goes to 54 to 56, all the
way up to 60, and smokes all theway through when you when it
(19:30):
goes back down with the 48 head.
That's something I'm reallyproud of.
So the size is everything, butwe're going to make cigars, and
I can speak on behalf of us andour family, we're going to make
cigars that deliver 100%.
And that's always something thatyou taught me.
SPEAKER_00 (19:46):
Yeah, that's a cigar that executes from start to
finish, and that's why we workedhard to get that size.
So for the smoker who loves theparallel cigar, he's going to
love it.
And the cigar smoker who likes afigurado shape is going to love
it.
It's it's just beautiful,elegant, and it executes and
performs extremely well.
And that's a cigar where thesize was designed to deliver
(20:10):
from start to end.
And I'm equally as excited aboutit as our team is.
SPEAKER_01 (20:15):
So, Dad, and you know, another great point, you
know, something we do, and gosh,a lot of our cigars, I was
looking in our humidor, it'sincredible.
You know, we have so many boxpressed cigars, but box pressing
gives really a thinner feel tolarger rain gauge cigars.
And I think box pressing at theend of the day is the best, it's
(20:35):
really the best of both worlds,right?
And in your opinion, what do youthink?
SPEAKER_00 (20:40):
I agree with you.
I I love it.
Aesthetically, I think it'sbeautiful, I think it's very
elegant, I think it's easy onthe mouth.
Our lips are lateral, right?
You go east and west.
Right.
And it just fits perfect.
And I I never thought I'd enjoyit so much.
I mean, they've been boxpressing cigars for over a
century.
And I love it.
And I never did it in thebeginning of our career.
(21:00):
I mean, we started box pressingcigars as little as 25 years
ago.
Right.
So for maybe a little longerthan that.
But yeah, I love it.
I think it's great.
And I think the band lays soperfectly on it.
It does.
And I find it to be verycomfortable and enjoyable.
SPEAKER_01 (21:13):
Yeah, and it's a process that really, you know,
it's very labor-intensive.
I mean, you're talking a minimumof 24 hours, you know, to box
press cigars.
But I think at the end of theday, it's totally worth the
time, it's totally worth theeffort because you get that
small feel with a largering-gauge cigar.
And again, going back toprevious episodes with primings
(21:35):
and talking about thickNicaraguan tobaccos, our job is
to make sure that we're able toproperly blend and give the
proper proportions of Nicaraguanfillers in every cigar so that
every cigar properly expressesand has the true core Nicaraguan
flavors, and that's what ourconsumers deserve.
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
No doubt.
No different than great food.
Great ingredients produce greatfood, great tobacco that's
cured, fermented, and aged well,like we do consistently produces
fantastic cigars for ourconsumers.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
And I think to wrap this up, Dad, I think this was a
really great episode.
I loved it.
I think, you know, our our wholegoal is to educate and to be
able to talk about small versuslarge ring gauges and really
optimum ring gauges for us inNicaragua and explaining really
our case, but also our proof,you know, in terms of how many
(22:28):
great cigars that we have, bigsellers in the market, and we
continue to grow astronomically.
And so I'm really proud of it.
But I think at the end of theday, this episode's all about in
terms of Nicaraguan tobacco.
Nicaraguan tobacco needs theproper surface space in order to
properly perform.
So this was a great episode.
I hope that our our audience gota lot out of this.
(22:50):
But I'm really grateful, Dad.
Thanks again for being on thisepisode.
And if you guys like this,please follow us on Instagram,
follow us on our ProdomoInstagram, our Prodomo Facebook
pages.
Also, like, share, and subscribeto our Prodomo YouTube page, and
check out our newProdomopodcast.com to listen in
as well.
So we really appreciate you guyswatching our show.
(23:13):
And please ask us any questionson any of our platforms.
Thank you guys so much, andwe'll see you very soon.
Today we have somewhat it can be a
controversial subject, but youknow what?
Who cares?
That's my opinion.
And I don't either.
Hi, I'm Nicholas Perdomo withPerdomo Cigars, and I'm
alongside my dad, Nick Perdomo,and you are watching the Perdomo
podcast.
(00:20):
Dad, welcome.
This subject, which is aboutsmall versus large ring-gauge
cigars, right?
And really what do we considerthem to be?
Coming from you, 30 years ofexperience from the factory
floors to the farming to everyto blending to every single
process, right?
I think we can agree that notall cigars smoke the same.
(00:42):
And at the end of the day,there's just some cigars,
because of the tobaccos that weuse, that we really that don't
work for us to make.
I think that's really thebiggest thing.
SPEAKER_00 (00:52):
No doubt about it.
There's people that have Italianrestaurants and there's people
that have, you know, hot dogstands.
I mean, everything's different.
It's what you like.
SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
Everything's different, but it's one of those
things where I think today's agreat opportunity, especially
for you, to really share theyour real experience.
Because at the end of the day,you've made every cigar for the
most part, from starting out ofyour garage, going into Flagler
Street, you know, in South Miamito going to Nicaragua where
we're currently at today overthe last three decades.
(01:20):
And so that's something to me,in my opinion, that it's a great
opportunity to talk about this.
So what I really want to getinto is we've talked about in
previous episodes primings,right?
We work with very thick type oftobaccos, right, in terms of
heavy textures, right?
So if you could talk a littlebit about the tobacco texture in
Nicaragua.
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
Because of our volcanic grounds and the amount
of organic matter that we have,which is extremely fertile
naturally, the tobaccos inNicaragua are much thicker than
tobaccos from other countries.
And that's just natural becauseof the ground contents, the
mineral contents, the amount ofmagnesium, the amount of
calcium, the amount ofpotassium, phosphorus, and
nitrogen, which are basicallylike your vitamins, minerals,
(02:06):
your carbohydrates, your youknow, you've it's got
everything, minerals that thebody needs, and that's what the
tobacco needs.
And Nicaragua is unlike anyother country in the world
because it provides everything,including an abundance amount of
water, a tremendous amount ofsunshine.
And what happens is with thatphotosynthesis, the textures of
the tobaccos are so thick, hencewhy we have to come up with
(02:26):
bigger ring gauges sometimes,which is a big win for the
customer.
SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
Right.
Yeah, 100%.
And, you know, I think when youlook at it, we have systems like
drip irrigation, right?
In terms of, you know, we neverwe don't rely on rainwater and
we don't rely on sprinklers.
And a lot of that stuff, as youtaught me, washes away all those
oils and those resins and thewith the flavor that you get.
So on top of it, we keep thatbecause all the all our water
(02:51):
comes from underground.
We drive it.
SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
We actually grow in the drought purposely.
So the only thing that getswater on a tobacco plant is the
roots, which is the mostimportant thing it needs, not
actually on top of the leaves.
SPEAKER_01 (03:01):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (03:02):
And so that's something to me that's very
important to also bring up aswell.
And I guess in the next segmentthat I'd like to talk about, and
you know, historically in ourfamily going back, I mean, our
family, you know, we're we'reCuban, right?
And so everything goes back toCuba in regards to, you know, su
cigars, right?
You know, our family got in themid-1800s, went from Canary
(03:25):
Islands in Spain to Cuba.
We left in the early 60s.
You know, we have over a hundredyears of of our family in Cuba.
And so, you know, when you lookat it all started there, right?
But all the cigars were small,real thinner type of ring
gauges, your panatellas, yourcoronas, Lonsdales, things like
that.
And eventually everybody went tothe Dominican Republic.
(03:46):
And kind of there's a fairthere's a big similarity, right?
And both and both of thosecountries have very similar
textures and leaves and soforth.
So if you could explain a littlebit why thinner tobacco pretty
much works better, I'm sorry,thinner type of cigars works
better for Dominican Republicand Cuba.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
Well, because exactly what you hit, the
thinner tobaccos.
Plus, believe it or not, it's alot more profitable to make
thinner cigars than thickercigars.
In the perfect world, I'd makethinner cigars, but in reality,
you'd never be able to taste therobust taste that Nicaragua
produces.
And I want to make cigars thathave all that flavor
characteristic.
(04:25):
But to make a thin cigar at 30pounds a thousand, a filler
versus a thick cigar that takes70 to 75 pounds a thousand, I
can't charge double.
So the consumer gets a lot ofbang for their buck with a
Perdomo cigar, and they get acigar that smokes cooler, has a
lot more flavor.
It's no different than aspaghetti sauce.
If it has salt, pepper, garlic,basil, oregano, saffron,
(04:46):
whatever you're going to put inthe sauce, those more
ingredients as they meld,there's a lot more flavor in the
sauce than just putting salt init.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
Well, that's why when we look, and you know, for
us, a 54 ring gauge is reallyoptimum, you know, for burning,
for taste, burns coolers,balance, complex flavors.
And because of those type ofingredients you talk about and
going back to the previousepisode with seco, viso, ligero,
tobaccos that, you know, salt,pepper, garlic powder.
(05:13):
Within that type of ring gauge,we can really show the blend.
Like when we were talking aboutdon't look at the wrapper, start
really, you know, when yousmoke, smoke and think about
those filler tobaccos, theproportions of tobaccos that we
use.
That specific ring gauge reallyprovides, you know, the most
optimum experience and flavorfor us of thick, heavy, rich
(05:34):
Nicaraguan tobaccos.
And so I think it's important.
So, and my next question is iswhat happens when you try to
force, like in smaller raingauge, when you try to force,
for example, Lijero, right?
Your thickest leaf, highest upon the plant, get the most sun
exposure, takes the most amountof time to ferment, to age, and
(05:55):
so forth.
What happens when you try totake those thick tobaccos and
force them into a smaller raingauge?
SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
First thing is you can't put much in there.
And I think you cheat thecustomer because a lot of
Lanceros and Coronas andLawnsdale's have no Lijeto in
them.
Right.
Because it stops up the tobaccoand the cigar usually won't
draw.
So we make a five bythirty-eight Purito, all
handmade.
We literally take a Chevetta,which is a blade that the roller
uses to cut the wrapper, and weactually cut it in strips.
(06:23):
Imagine cutting 500,000 stripsto make 500,000 cigars.
It's crazy.
It's crazy.
I'd rather use the full leaf.
It's going to have much moreflavor than not having that
flavor.
And then you look at a cigarlike this.
So this is the Prodomo 10thanniversary champagne, Corona
Extra, five and five eighths by46, an old Cuban size.
(06:47):
That cigar has a half a leaf ofLee Handle because that's all I
can fit in a 46.
Right.
Then you look at a cigar likethis, a 6x48 Prodomo 20th
anniversary, Corona Grande, acigar named after you.
It was it was your cigar.
It was the size you liked.
I can only put three-quarters ofa leaf in there to make that
cigar taste right.
But when you take a 54, I canuse two leaves.
(07:09):
If I take a 56, I can take twofull leaves.
That's a lot more flavor, biggercircumference, more coolness.
Cigar is going to be a loteasier to smoke at the same
time.
And you know what?
With the box pressing, it's gotthat thinner texture.
SPEAKER_01 (07:25):
It's very comfortable in the mouth, I
think.
Right.
And I guess one of the questionsand the big question, and our
audience is now listening interms, they're probably
wondering, well, what do youguys consider to be small versus
large ring gauge cigars?
And what is the percentage ofwhat percentage of flavor does
the rapper impart on a cigar?
(07:45):
So if you can explain, what iswhat do we at Perdomo Cigars
consider to be small ring gaugeand what do we consider to be
large or really optimum ringgauge?
SPEAKER_00 (07:53):
I think anything between 28 and 44, 64ths of an
inch is a small ring gauge cigartoday.
And as as time has gone on,people are looking for bigger
and bigger cigars, more and moreflavor.
Now, when you get above the 62sand 64s, you really get a little
bigger than than what I normallysmoke, but that's fine.
(08:15):
It's what people like, right?
Of course.
And I think the optimum forlarge ring-gauge cigars or a
minimum of 46 and up, right isbasically what it is.
SPEAKER_01 (08:25):
Yeah.
And I think 46 to 60 is oursweet spot because at least we
can pretty much put put in a 46and a 48.
Pretty much you can put most ofthe Lejado into it, even though
you take a little bit of a stripoff of it, because we want to
make sure that the cigar drawsand burns correctly and so
forth.
But, you know, again, from ourfive and five eighths by 46
(08:45):
corona extra that we offer inchampagne, our six and a half by
48 corona grande that we offerin 20th anniversary, all the way
up to our six by sixties thatyou know we offer in all of our
brand portfolios.
But going back to the secondquestion, in your opinion, and
we've talked about this, butagain, I think it's very
important to reiterate it.
What percentage of flavor doesthe rapper impart on a cigar?
SPEAKER_00 (09:08):
In my personal opinion, between 10 and 15% of
the total flavor, which is quitea bit.
It is a lot.
And I've I've mentioned this inprevious episodes.
It's the final dress of thecigar.
But you taste it because it'ssitting right on your lips.
But it does actually impartquite a bit.
I've seen some stuff, you know,70% flavor.
(09:29):
That's ludicrous.
You know, one of the greatthings I'm excited about this
podcast is the consumers and theretailers who are listening to
us worldwide really want to knowthe skinny of it.
We're the guys who are on thefactory floor every day.
100% we're the guys in the boxcompany every day.
We're the guys walking to farmsevery day.
We're the guys who work in thesorting and selecting facility
(09:50):
and look at things, we're theguys who blend cigars.
We're not the guys who walk in afactory once a year and write
something and all of a suddenthey become a cigar expert.
Yeah.
You know, we do it, and we're soproud to be able to give our
knowledge to the consumerbecause I respect every one of
you because you really want toknow the skinny on something you
(10:11):
enjoy and you're passionateabout, which is cigars.
And I love doing it.
I'm proud to be able to do it,and I want to thank everybody
that's listening, that listensinto our podcast because it's
important.
And I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (10:22):
Yeah, Dad.
And I think overall the blend,again, going back to the
previous episode, the blend, thefiller tobaccos, those
proportions of seco viso ligerothat are the majority of the
leaves within a cigar, right?
95%.
Well, yeah, because you got oneone leaf.
Like when I hear people talkabout 70% of the flavor comes
from a wrapper.
(10:42):
If I was to use two leaves, awrapper leaf and a filler leaf,
and I just use that wrapperleaf, that's two leaves.
So you're basically telling me50% of the leaf, which is come
on, how where do you get 70?
Are you using one tenth of aleaf to over one?
I mean, it makes no sense, butit's just it angers me, but I'm
so glad that we bring somethingup to life because we've been
hearing about it for so long,and you've spent decades going
(11:03):
to retail stores and reallyeducating consumers.
But I think the overall missionof the Prodomo podcast is to get
to the masses.
Because I've never seen in mylife consumers so engaged to
learn more.
And I and as a manufacturer, andI know I can speak on behalf of
you, I'm so grateful for it.
(11:26):
And so this is something that isour obligation to our consumers,
even to our retailers, becausewe want to share everything.
There are no secrets of Perdomocigars.
We don't have when you go to ourfactories and you know,
consumers have been, we don'tsay, Oh, you can't go in this,
this is a this area, and youcan't walk here.
We bring everybody to ourfactory.
(11:46):
We have nothing to hide.
That's the most beautiful thingabout this this company that you
created, is we have nothing tohide.
And we're definitely never goingto hide the truth and
information to our consumers andto cigar lovers that are trying
to learn.
SPEAKER_00 (12:00):
Yeah, they deserve to know the the truth and all
the information, something theylove.
And like I said earlier, I loveto be able to show.
It's like when people come onour factory tours, we love it.
We love doing them.
And I know Arthur and I that dothem, and and you, we we love
talking to our consumers and ourretailers and showing our pride
and our passion, our love forour cigars, and instilling that
(12:23):
loving where they see ourworkforce and seeing the love
that they have in producing thebest and how happy they are when
a consumer walks up to a rollerand says, Hey man, I've been
smoking these cigars for 30years and I love them, and you
see the smile on the face of ouremployees, that's what it's all
about.
SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
Well, consistency, quality, and excellence has uh
has always been our mantra andalways will be our mantra.
And I think, you know, goinginto the next question, if you
know, I think we can give acouple points, but I'd like for
you to start in terms of smallring gauge cigars, right?
So the 28 to 44 ring gauge, whydo those sizes struggle to
(13:00):
perform?
If you can give a couple points,struggle to perform with
Nicaraguan tobaccos.
SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
Because our tobaccos are too thick and they don't
work in such a smallcircumference.
And it's not your grandfather'sOldsmobile anymore.
People have moved up and are aresmoking different things, and we
have to go with the times.
Right.
You know, people used to likeextremely mild cigars, like I
said in a previous episode inthe 90s.
(13:27):
People today would smoke thosecigars and say, oh my God, these
have no flavor.
Because as time comes on, weknow that the imports of cigars
into the United States ofAmerica, about 68% is comes from
Nicaragua today.
Well, that's why you blendedPerdomo Champagne.
100%.
And what happens is now you'retalking about the majority of
American consumers and smokers,they are by far, if you took the
(13:51):
whole world together, Americanssmoke more cigars by accident,
the whole world smokes together.
And they want more and moreflavor, and that's what
Nicaragua gives them.
SPEAKER_01 (14:02):
100%.
But I think when you look at thesmall ring-gauge cigars and
trying to force, you know,thick, heavy, rich Nicaraguan
filler tobaccos into the intothe blend, you create less
airflow, right?
So you have you have tightdraws, you know, real real hard
to smoke, you know, combustiontemperatures get get, you know,
(14:24):
they get hot, the cigar.
When you try it, burns hot, andyou get almost this acrid type
of harsh type of flavors.
You know, even limit, you know,going back, limit you can, you
know, you can't if you can't doit, then you got to limit the
amount of seiko viso ligero.
So I can never fully express theblend to have the flavors that I
want in those small sizes,again, because of the thick
(14:46):
tobaccos that we're using.
But another thing, too, is isyou create sharpness and almost
aggressive type of flavors thatpeople unfortunately I think
can, you know, we all talk aboutwe always talk about complexity
in the cigar, right?
And sometimes harshness can be,in my opinion, I think people m
misinterpret that as complexity.
(15:07):
Harshness is not enjoyable, youknow, and there's more of an
edge to the cigar.
SPEAKER_00 (15:12):
100% because you have such a small circumference
and you're trying to build thatflavor characteristic in such a
small thing.
Look, I'm not saying if peoplelike tiny little cigars and
stuff, that's wrong.
I want people to enjoy whateverthey like.
But I think I think a biggerring-gauge cigar like a 52, a
54, a 56, is extremelyenjoyable.
(15:33):
We see it in the sales.
Look, we love these cigars, andthese cigars sell well.
But the standardized new sizestoday perform much better for a
reason.
The smoker wants more bang forhis buck.
Right.
And he's getting it with thesering gauge sizes.
And we're happy about it.
And you really get to taste thewhole powder the way the cigar
(15:53):
was intended to be tasted by theblenders, because you get
everything that you want in thatcigar, and it's very enjoyable.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_01 (16:00):
Well, this goes to my my next question.
Why why do larger ring gaugesshine, truly allow the
Nicaraguan tobaccos to shine?
unknown (16:09):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (16:09):
Because you get to taste all the flavor
characteristics of the seco, ofthe viso, the mild to medium
cigars, the Lijados, thedifferent visos that are put on
to produce that complexity,which is that evolving flavor
that comes harmonious with a bigbinder that produces flavor on
top of it, the wrapper over top.
You really get to tasteeverything.
(16:30):
It's like that sauce, thatspaghetti sauce we had talked
about earlier, where you get totaste all the garlic and the
oregano and the basil and thesalt and the pepper and
everything just tastes so good.
And then you age those cigars.
It's like your mom's sauce.
It's got two or three days onit, it tastes better than the
first day it came in, right?
So it's the same thing with thecigar.
And I think we hit it rightright where it needs to be hit
(16:52):
at before when we when we shipthese cigars around the world.
They get the taste of flavor theway it was intended to be, and
they get to taste all of itbecause of those ring gauge
sizes.
SPEAKER_01 (17:00):
Right.
And I think, you know, outsideof more airflow, cooler burn
temperature, which means you getmore flavor, right?
Yes.
You know, full primings, youknow, in terms of Seiko Visa
Lujero, we were able to properlyformat that and proportion it
out to those specific blendscorrectly and enhance flavors.
But I think something that, youknow, I think an opportunity for
(17:22):
the the people who do enjoysmaller ring-age cigars, I think
when you look at our portfolio,torpedoes, comes right, you
know, if you cut a torpedoproperly, right, which every
cigar we make, every brand wemake, we have a torpedo size,
right?
Outside of our Perdomo 12 yeardouble-aged vintage, but every
brand has a torpedo.
And so if you properly cut thatcigar, if you cut a quarter of
(17:44):
an inch off, you are getting aconcentrated flavor with a big
ring-gauge feel.
If it's a 54 or 56 body, thecigar, and you properly cut that
head, you're getting a smaller,you're getting a smaller figure
within within your mouth whenyou smoke the cigar, but you're
getting that full experience ofthose filler tobaccos.
Another thing, too, in ProdomoLegacy, Gram Bellicoso, you
(18:04):
know, Dad, it's incredible.
That cigar, since we releasedthat last year, and we're going
on a year, which is I can'tbelieve, that cigar is selling
like crazy.
Because between box pressing thecigar, giving a 48 head with a
with a 60 body, and it feelsalmost more like a 46 because of
that press.
I mean, that cigar is sellinglike crazy, which I'm really
(18:26):
proud of.
But the next big one, and wetalked about this episode one,
Perdomo Legacy, father and son.
We created a size, you and Ijust writing down in a pen and a
paper.
What cigar do we want?
What cigar can properly give thefull expression of Nicaraguan
tobaccos that we're usingoutside of the incredible
Nicaraguan shade grown tobaccothat's completely proprietary to
(18:47):
us?
What can we do with 48 head,right?
48 beautiful 48 ring gauge, 48by 64 of an inch ring gauge
head, 60 body, 52 foot, right?
And completely box pressed onall four sides, which I can't
wait for the consumers and theand the markets worldwide to try
(19:08):
these cigars because this size,it's a parallel cigar, which
people want parallel cigars, butyou get concentration from light
from light from from puffing onthe 48 head with the initial
light of the 52 ring gauge, andthen a complete expansion of
flavor from when that 52 ringgauge goes to 54 to 56, all the
way up to 60, and smokes all theway through when you when it
(19:30):
goes back down with the 48 head.
That's something I'm reallyproud of.
So the size is everything, butwe're going to make cigars, and
I can speak on behalf of us andour family, we're going to make
cigars that deliver 100%.
And that's always something thatyou taught me.
SPEAKER_00 (19:46):
Yeah, that's a cigar that executes from start to
finish, and that's why we workedhard to get that size.
So for the smoker who loves theparallel cigar, he's going to
love it.
And the cigar smoker who likes afigurado shape is going to love
it.
It's it's just beautiful,elegant, and it executes and
performs extremely well.
And that's a cigar where thesize was designed to deliver
(20:10):
from start to end.
And I'm equally as excited aboutit as our team is.
SPEAKER_01 (20:15):
So, Dad, and you know, another great point, you
know, something we do, and gosh,a lot of our cigars, I was
looking in our humidor, it'sincredible.
You know, we have so many boxpressed cigars, but box pressing
gives really a thinner feel tolarger rain gauge cigars.
And I think box pressing at theend of the day is the best, it's
(20:35):
really the best of both worlds,right?
And in your opinion, what do youthink?
SPEAKER_00 (20:40):
I agree with you.
I I love it.
Aesthetically, I think it'sbeautiful, I think it's very
elegant, I think it's easy onthe mouth.
Our lips are lateral, right?
You go east and west.
Right.
And it just fits perfect.
And I I never thought I'd enjoyit so much.
I mean, they've been boxpressing cigars for over a
century.
And I love it.
And I never did it in thebeginning of our career.
(21:00):
I mean, we started box pressingcigars as little as 25 years
ago.
Right.
So for maybe a little longerthan that.
But yeah, I love it.
I think it's great.
And I think the band lays soperfectly on it.
It does.
And I find it to be verycomfortable and enjoyable.
SPEAKER_01 (21:13):
Yeah, and it's a process that really, you know,
it's very labor-intensive.
I mean, you're talking a minimumof 24 hours, you know, to box
press cigars.
But I think at the end of theday, it's totally worth the
time, it's totally worth theeffort because you get that
small feel with a largering-gauge cigar.
And again, going back toprevious episodes with primings
(21:35):
and talking about thickNicaraguan tobaccos, our job is
to make sure that we're able toproperly blend and give the
proper proportions of Nicaraguanfillers in every cigar so that
every cigar properly expressesand has the true core Nicaraguan
flavors, and that's what ourconsumers deserve.
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
No doubt.
No different than great food.
Great ingredients produce greatfood, great tobacco that's
cured, fermented, and aged well,like we do consistently produces
fantastic cigars for ourconsumers.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
And I think to wrap this up, Dad, I think this was a
really great episode.
I loved it.
I think, you know, our our wholegoal is to educate and to be
able to talk about small versuslarge ring gauges and really
optimum ring gauges for us inNicaragua and explaining really
our case, but also our proof,you know, in terms of how many
(22:28):
great cigars that we have, bigsellers in the market, and we
continue to grow astronomically.
And so I'm really proud of it.
But I think at the end of theday, this episode's all about in
terms of Nicaraguan tobacco.
Nicaraguan tobacco needs theproper surface space in order to
properly perform.
So this was a great episode.
I hope that our our audience gota lot out of this.
(22:50):
But I'm really grateful, Dad.
Thanks again for being on thisepisode.
And if you guys like this,please follow us on Instagram,
follow us on our ProdomoInstagram, our Prodomo Facebook
pages.
Also, like, share, and subscribeto our Prodomo YouTube page, and
check out our newProdomopodcast.com to listen in
as well.
So we really appreciate you guyswatching our show.
(23:13):
And please ask us any questionson any of our platforms.
Thank you guys so much, andwe'll see you very soon.
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