The Pre-Shift Podcast presented by 7shifts is a deep dive into what it takes to run great restaurant teams.
Host DJ Costantino covers the restaurant industry with conversations featuring industry leaders and innovators sharing their business growth insights, backgrounds, and valuable lessons on running restaurant teams.
On this episode, we’re joined by Hassel Aviles, Founder and Director of Not 9 to 5.
Hassel Aviles has built a career in the hospitality and foodservice industry for over two decades working primarily in restaurants, event production and entrepreneurship. In 2018, after years of struggling with mental illness and trauma, Hassel was inspired to co-found Not 9 to 5, a non-profit that empowers foodservice service workers like herself. Hassel’s strategic planning abilities helped grow Not 9 to 5 from a series of workshops, panels and webinars into a global vehicle for change. Her work has contributed to a worldwide hospitality revolution to create work environments that are inclusive and proactive, rather than top-down and reactive. Hassel has used her experience, her social capital and intelligence to speak up for those without the power to make change. She is a visionary and deeply dedicated to revolutionizing the industry for the better.
**Free Mental Health Course of 7shifts Academy**
Topics Covered:
- The contributors to poor mental health in the restaurant industry
- Defining what psychological safety means for the restaurant industry and the signs that a restaurant isn't psychologically safe.
- The causes and identifiers of burnout in restaurant work.
Resources
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7shifts is a scheduling, payroll, and employee retention app designed to help restaurants thrive. With an easy-to-use app and industry-specific solutions, 7shifts saves time, reduces errors, and helps keep costs in check for more than 50,000 restaurants.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello and welcome back to the Pre-Shift Podcast
presented by 7Shifts.
My name is DJ and I'll be yourhost, bringing you everything
you need to know about runningbetter restaurants.
On this episode, we're joinedby Hassell Aviles of Knot9to5.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi, I'm Hassell Aviles.
I use she, her pronouns.
I am the founding director ofNot 9 to 5.
We are a non-profit globalleader in mental health advocacy
and education, specifically forthe hospitality and culinary
industry.
So that includes restaurants,bars, hotels, you name it
(00:39):
breweries, wineries.
Our industry is vast and yeah,so I'm the executive director
and my job is to, you know,basically run the nonprofit.
I also do a lot of publicspeaking and facilitate
workshops around these topics aswell.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
In honor of Mental Health Month, I wanted to chat
with Asel about her experiencein the restaurant industry and
why she came to found Not 9 to 5.
I also wanted to share with yousome of what she's learned
about mental health, burnout andpsychological safety in the
restaurant industry.
We'll start at the beginning,at the moment when Hassell knew
she needed to do somethingdifferent.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
You know, I always say Not 9 to 5 was founded in
instinct and is now cemented indata.
Instinct and is now cemented indata and I believe that to be
true.
And I see that to be truebecause I lived with, like you
just said, I lived with a lot ofmy own mental health challenges
substance use challenges whileI worked in restaurants and even
(01:38):
when I owned a restaurant, andso the entire time that I worked
in restaurants, I never, ever,ever saw workplace mental health
as an open dialogue.
I never was offered support orresources in any of the
establishments that I worked in.
I just saw this massive voidand gap and I experienced
(02:08):
symptoms of burnout varioustimes in my in my life and there
was little to no education orresources or language or even
leadership around this topic.
I always say workplace mentalhealth has been neglected for
centuries in the restaurantindustry, so we have a lot of
catching up to do.
But in terms of your questionof like, was there a pivotal
point?
Yeah, I mean, I thinkdefinitely.
When I had one of my burnouttimes in my life and I hit rock
(02:33):
bottom, as they say, I kind ofhad had enough about the silence
and the shame, I basically hita point where I realized I
wouldn't be embarrassed to tellyou if I broke my elbow.
So why would I be embarrassedif I live with depression, right
?
Or if I'm experiencing a panicattack or having anxiety?
And so when that happened, Iwas running my first business,
(02:55):
which was a food event business.
I'm located here in Toronto,but the nonprofit Not 9 to 5 has
partners around the globe.
So here in Toronto I used torun this nonprofit not nine to
five has partners around theglobe.
So here in Toronto I used torun this event called the
Toronto underground market and Iwas having panic attacks almost
every event that we threw and Iwas having all kinds of other
challenges, and that was myturning point in terms of
(03:18):
speaking openly about my mentalhealth challenges.
So I was very transparent withmy team.
We would have a, you know, inthe middle of a meeting, for
example.
I would sometimes let everyoneknow, you know, like, hey, you
know I'm going through thisstuff with my mental health, I'm
getting help, you know I amgetting treatment.
But I just want to be honestabout this because it does
(03:40):
affect my work and it doesaffect how I show up, affects my
mood, it affects my performance, and I was very honest and
transparent about it and whatthat happened.
What that did was it created alot of psychological safety on
our team for any kind of gavepermission for anyone else to
also share.
And then, from then, I thinkpeople kind of knew that I was
(04:01):
more open about these topics.
So I was asked to one speak ona panel and tell my story in
late 2017.
I did the risk and I did withfive other people wasn't just me
, but the response in that roomwas so incredible and that was
kind of when I realized, okay, Ineed to keep doing this because
it's creating such an amazingresponse from the industry.
(04:24):
It's so obvious that otherpeople are experiencing these
things too, and so in early 2018, we launched Not 9 to 5.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Something you mentioned that it was founded on
instinct and continues throughdata.
What are some of the biggestcontributors to poor mental
health in restaurants in youropinion, For example, I've seen
you mention something like thebrigade system in the past.
I know it's a little uncommonnow, but has a long lasting
legacy.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Can I push back on that?
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I disagree completely .
I think the brigade system isrampant in our industry.
I don't think it's a legacy ofthe past at all.
If you go into any fine diningrestaurant, any of the Michelin
star restaurants, you see thebrigade system absolutely
everywhere.
And I always say that thebrigade system is not just in
kitchens.
The influence of the brigadesystem has very much seeped out
(05:15):
into the rest of the industry.
I worked front line service formost of my career.
I never worked in the kitchenprofessionally but I was even
impacted by the brigade system,because what has happened is
that there has been this kind ofbrainwashing in our industry
where we have adopted thissystem of very intense hierarchy
(05:37):
.
You can't see my hands ifyou're listening to this on a
podcast, but I'm holding myhands up like a triangle.
So the very intense hierarchystarts at the top.
You have one, usually one,maybe two, but usually it's one
person that has most of thedecision making, that gets most
of the credit for the work thatgets done by that establishment,
(05:57):
one person that is constantlyheld up as the you know creative
, the leader, the face of thebusiness, and then everyone else
under that person, followingdown the triangle, has less and
less power and privilege as yougo down, and that's still very
that's still very much the casein a lot of restaurants is
(06:18):
particularly fine dining.
So, even, like I said, front ofyou know, in the frontline
service positions, the thosepositions also run the same.
You have a GM, you know AGMunder them.
You have then following youservers, bartenders, all the way
down to other kinds of bussersor food.
You know handlers, runners,that kind of thing.
(06:39):
Um, it's still hierarchicalthat way, and the people that
have the lower level positionsusually don't make most of the
decision making in the business,usually don't have much say in
terms of creative ideas, usuallydon't get to contribute as much
in terms of how things get doneand where they get done, and
(06:59):
they don't get to decide.
They more like quote unquotetaking orders, which again comes
from the brigade system.
And the brigade system, I thinktoo, contributes to poor mental
health because it's constantlytrying to get us to focus on
efficiency versus trying tocreate an environment that
focuses on humanity or thatfocuses on psychological safety
(07:23):
or that focuses on equity orthat focuses on psychological
safety or that focuses on equity.
And so when you constantly areputting so much pressure on the
people quote, unquote at the top.
What it does, too, is itoftentimes removes any room for
emotional experiences.
I can tell you, when I grew upin restaurants, I was constantly
told to check my emotions atthe door, you know.
(07:46):
But that doesn't actually makesense and that's not a
reasonable request to ask ofanyone, because we are emotional
beings, as human beings.
So asking me to check myemotions at the door is
dehumanizing.
It's a dehumanizing request.
It causes people to repress andsuppress their emotional
experiences and then that's why,as a result, you have an
(08:09):
industry that is rampant withsubstance use, for example,
because that's the most commoncoping tool.
Humans are not meant to repressand suppress their emotional
experiences.
You know, we are meant toexpress them, and when we can't
express them freely, we don'thave psychological safety in the
(08:30):
workplace.
But to go back to your question,you know you asked specifically
like what are other biggestcontributors?
So, aside from the brigadesystem because I still stand by
my, you know my stance on thatbeing a massive impact on our
mental health and poor employeemental health.
But aside from that, poorcontributors are really,
(08:52):
unfortunately, around a lot ofthe aspects that have been
normalized in this industry.
So what I mean by that is, forexample, inadequate breaks.
That is something that is verycommon in this industry.
In restaurants and bars it'sunless you're going for a
cigarette.
It's almost like you're notallowed to take a break.
You know, and even though weare operating in places, states,
(09:16):
provinces, whatever country youlive in where there's legally
mandated, you know, or legallyavailable breaks for employees,
they still don't take them right.
You're still kind of normalizedto push through, to work
through, and so it kind ofbuilds up.
And when you don't get adequatebreaks to, you know, take a
(09:37):
minute, take a breath, have somewater, maybe power through a
gondola bar, whatever, what haveyou?
Power through a gondola bar orwhatever, what have you?
It really builds up to this go,go, go, go, nonstop experience.
And so what's happening in yourbody is like tons of cortisol,
huge adrenaline.
You know you're not balancingit out.
(09:58):
There's not a lot of regulation.
That happens.
In addition to the lack ofbreaks, there's also just
unconventional hours.
You know that interfere withour sleep.
Again, I know that as abartender or as a server, like I
used to be, or as a cook or achef, or you know other aspects,
(10:19):
sometimes you can't controlyour schedule right, you have
these unconventional hours.
That's just the hours that ourindustry works on.
You know, obviously ournonprofits called not nine to
five because we recognize thatthis industry does not run on
your, you know, conventionalhours.
There's still ways to workaround that, you know.
There's still ways to create,for example, a balance.
(10:41):
I know now these days there's alot of restaurants using like
four day work weeks and stufflike that.
So there's still ways you canwork around the unconventional
hours to help balance people out.
Another one is, like I alreadymentioned, the easy access to
substances.
So I think the coping tool thatI said, which is the most
common maladaptive coping tool,which is substance use, one
(11:04):
thing that's normalized in thisindustry is the massive
consumption of alcohol and Iunderstand that everyone has
different consumption levels andI'm very much respect that.
What I have a problem with andwhat I don't respect are
establishments that areproviding that alcohol, because
sometimes it's being used as aquote, unquote, perk, you know,
(11:28):
or a reward, exactly shift drink.
That's dangerous, that createssubstance dependency in the
brain and the body and the mind,Once you start teaching
yourself through habits thatyou've earned it and that you
know a good day means a beer ora shot, or a bad day means a
beer or a shot, and this keepshappening over and over and over
(11:49):
again.
You're creating habits whichcreate dependency, and that's
dangerous, especially if it'sbeing provided by the workplace.
Oftentimes I've heard also hey,we have a keg in the walk-in,
or you know a bunch of beers inthe walk-in that are meant for
staff.
Again, not safe, not dangerousto have workplaces supply that
(12:10):
kind of easy access to alcohol.
I think if people decide to dothis for themselves, that's a
totally different story, and Ithink also if you have a balance
between non-alcoholic andalcoholic beverages, that's also
another harm reduction that youcan put in place.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Another example some people even start to smoke
cigarettes just to be able tostep out and take an actual
break, which is wild to me.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
That's a great example, though, dominic.
I love that because that'sanother example of a substance
that's normalized in theindustry, right, and like you're
so right, I actually do know ofpeople also that started
smoking just so that they wouldhave a quote unquote, socially
acceptable.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yeah, why do they get to stand outside every hour for
10 minutes?
You know what I mean and Idon't.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Can I add one more thing?
So I think another contributorthat often gets missed is our
industry still has a very bigmisconception around
vulnerability.
This industry thinks still thatvulnerability is a weakness
when in reality vulnerability isa strength.
It is not easy to be vulnerablewith each other.
(13:17):
It is much easier to repressand suppress our vulnerability,
but it is a risk, right, becausewhen we work in an industry
where you have to be seen astough and strong and there's
still very much this likemasculine idea of what success
looks like and this veryaggressive idea of what success
looks like, you know what a chefis supposed to look like, what
(13:40):
a you know manager is supposedto operate and speak like and
behave.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Now I think this ties well into the topic of
psychological safety.
Obviously there's a connectionbetween that and mental health,
but what is that connection?
How do we define psychologicalsafety as it relates to
restaurants, and what are someof the other signs that a
restaurant is not apsychologically safe place to
work?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
It's a great question .
So I will start with I lovethis.
I love this request fordefinitions.
I will start by saying that Ithink language helps us connect
differently to topics.
I think language helps usbetter expand our understanding.
So I love this request fordefinitions because then this
(14:22):
way we can all get aligned andI'll be very clear about what it
is that we're talking about.
So actually, before I get intopsychological safety, I just
want to define mental health andalso what mental health is and
is not, because I think thisterm gets thrown around all the
time, and I think half the timeit's probably misused.
Mental health is a neutral term, so that's, that's the first
(14:45):
thing I want to say.
Mental health does not meanthat you have mental illness.
We all have mental health as anaspect of our overall health,
and so I think it's reallyimportant to know that it's just
a state of well-being in whichwe, as individuals, can realize
our own potential, we can copewith the normal stresses of life
and we can work productivelyand fruitfully.
(15:06):
Mental health does not meanyou're always in a good mood,
right?
Mental health does not meanthat you're always calm and
everything's stable.
Mental health crises don't endwhen we all just feel really
good and can be, you know,constantly in good moods.
Mental health is not, like Isaid, the absence of illness or
(15:27):
being happy all the time.
The other thing I want toclarify is workplace mental
health.
So workplace mental health is ajoint effort between employers
and employees.
Employers' role is to establishpolicies, processes and
resources and the role of theemployee is to manage their
mental health and seekassistance when required.
So that's why I was sayingearlier, it's so important to
(15:47):
create an environment wherepeople do feel that it is safe
to seek assistance, to seek andaccept help when needed.
And your question aroundpsychological safety.
So psychological safety is anenvironment where candor and
risk are expected and encouraged, without any fear of
retribution.
(16:07):
This does not mean thateveryone has to be polite and
kind all the time to each other.
You know this is not whatpsychological safety is about.
Psychological safety is aboutcreating an environment, like I
said, where people can makemistakes, you know, they can
give and receive feedback, theycan show up as their authentic
(16:28):
self, they can be vulnerablewith one another and there's no
fear of negative consequencestowards how you're perceived or
to your job itself.
And when I first startedlearning about how psychological
safety.
I was so alarmed becausethere's almost no restaurants
I've ever worked in thatprovided this kind of
(16:50):
environment for me.
I never felt like mistakes wereokay.
Oftentimes they were seen assomething to be punished or
penalized for, instead of beingseen as a natural part of the
learning experience.
You know what I mean.
Like failure and mistakes arean opportunity to learn.
They're not an opportunity tofire someone or, you know, or
(17:14):
punish someone.
But unfortunately in thisindustry, you know it's tough
and so I think why is itimportant?
So here's a huge thing tounderstand.
If you're a manager or an owneroperator, the benefits of
psychologically safe workenvironments are enormous.
They're massive.
(17:34):
So they include highperformance.
They include innovation,creativity, resilience and
learning.
This has been proven inresearch time and time again.
The other thing I always like topoint out is that the
restaurant industry, theculinary industry, the
hospitality industry we have notinvested a lot of money into
workplace mental health and so,as a result, I think it's
(17:59):
important to look to otherindustries that have right.
There's a lot of otherindustries that have put tons,
millions of money into research,into data, into figuring out
how to create psychologicallysafe work environments.
For example, google, a numberof years ago, went on a quest to
figure out how do you build theperfect team, how do you build
the most high performance teams,how do you produce teams that
(18:23):
are the most effective in theworkplace?
And they spent tons of money.
As you can imagine, google isone of the biggest employers in
the world.
They hired sociologists,therapists you know researchers.
They spent so much time andmoney on this.
They researched hundreds ofteens, thousands of people.
As a result of all of this work,it turns out that the number
(18:46):
one factor for high performanceis psychological safety.
One factor for high performanceis psychological safety.
So when we consider that, whenwe think about that, we are
missing out as an industry interms of high performance.
We are missing out in terms ofproductivity.
We are missing out in terms ofinnovation, creativity,
resilience and learning.
So this is not just something,like I said, it's not just about
(19:08):
being nice and, like you know,a kumbaya moment.
This is not what we're talkingabout.
We're also talking about how toimprove your business.
There's a massive return oninvestment, on investing in
workplace mental health andpsychological safety.
So when we're looking at anindustry that is still
recovering from the pandemic andis still always complaining
about finding labor, you know,and the impacts of the great
(19:30):
resignation.
I think it's never been a moreimportant time to invest money,
time and effort into learningmore about workplace mental
health and psychological safety.
The other part of your questionyou were asking is like how do
you know if your team haspsychological safety or not?
How do you know if you'repracticing it or not?
So have your team answer thesequestions or ask yourself these
(19:54):
questions as a leader.
If you make a mistake on thisteam, is it being held against
you?
Are you able to bring up toughtopics and problems?
Is it safe to take a risk onthis team or in this restaurant
or bar?
Is it difficult to ask for helpfrom others on this team?
Does this team accept othersfor being different?
(20:15):
Would anyone on the teamdeliberately act in a way to
undermine your efforts?
And the last question is do youfeel like your unique skills
and talents are valued andutilized?
A lot of times in restaurants,the answers to these questions
will not be super high withpsychological safety and again,
(20:37):
I'm not here to make anyone feelbad.
It's more just about like whatan incredible opportunity we
have.
Like what an incredibleopportunity we have as leaders
and managers and restaurantowners to start to learn more
about this and change theanswers to these questions so
that we can create environmentsof high performance, high
creativity, high innovation, youknow, et cetera, et cetera.
(21:00):
I think the last thing I want tosay on psychological safety is
also that it doesn't mean thatyou're constantly valuing your
employees' voices, youremployees' experiences and
you're constantly asking themfor input and so that they are
involved in the decision making.
This goes against the brigadesystem.
(21:21):
This is also why I'm such anadvocate of speaking out about
the brigade system, because thebrigade system is not an
environment of psychologicalsafety.
It creates an environment offear.
It creates an environment ofauthority because it comes from
a military background.
But with psychological safety,I think you are replacing blame
(21:43):
with curiosity, you know and andyou're really focusing on
listening and learning, so thatyou're giving attention not just
the leaders, the power to shareopinions and ideas and
experiences, but also everyoneelse on the team as well.
What that does in the end isalso create a more equitable
(22:05):
workplace, because a lot oftimes, only certain people that
look a certain way get to beinvolved in decision making, get
to have ideas shared and getcredit for the work they do.
An equitable workplace is apsychologically safe workplace.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
The last piece I want to cover today is burnout.
So you guys did a survey and87% of respondents said they've
experienced burnout inrestaurant works, which I think
is fair to say is pretty mucheveryone.
So what did you learn aboutburnout in relation to the
restaurant industry?
You know, like, what are someof the causes of it and what
does it look like.
You know when you're observingit.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Thank you so much for asking about burnout.
I think it's one of thoseexperiences that often gets
normalized with the work that wedo in restaurants.
I think sometimes people areexperiencing burnout and they
don't even know it because it'sso normalized, right?
Because it's just so rampant.
Like you said, it's everyone,everyone at some point in this
(23:04):
industry.
If you've worked in theindustry for more than three
years, has probably experiencedsome symptom of burnout and
that's terrifying and sodangerous because it can also
lead to other you know, mentalhealth challenges and it can
lead to a lot of other substanceuse challenges as well if it
goes unaddressed.
(23:25):
So I want to be again.
I love definitions, I lovelanguage, I love being very
clear with language.
Burnout is not the same as toomuch stress.
I want to be really clear aboutthat.
So if you're physicallyexhausted, that does not always
mean that you are experiencingburnout.
Usually, the way I like to thinkabout it and this is something
I've learned through doing a lotof reading and research on
(23:47):
these topics stress, a good wayto think of it is like stress is
usually involves too much,involves too much.
So too much pressure, too muchdemand on you physically and
mentally.
People are stressed.
They usually know it right.
You're pretty aware of ifyou're too stressed.
Stress can be defined as anytype of change that causes
(24:11):
physical, emotional orpsychological strain.
Feeling stressed but stillhaving your needs met, you're
probably still okay.
You're probably still doing allright.
There's a lot of people thatdeal with a lot of high stress
jobs, but their needs are met.
They're taking care of theirneeds, whether that's physical,
emotional, financial, what haveyou?
On the other hand, burnout isabout not enough.
(24:32):
So if stress is about too much,burnout is about not enough.
So being burned out meansfeeling empty and mentally
exhausted, lacking motivation,beyond the point of caring.
I remember when I wasexperiencing burnout, I realized
one of the biggest indicatorsfor me was that I realized that
the things that were usually inmy life, bringing me joy or that
(24:56):
would usually make me feel goodor excited, I just didn't care.
I was just so numb, I was sochecked out.
I felt like literally sodisassociated from myself.
So people that experienceburnout often feel hopeless
about change and you know, it'slike this, almost this sense of
feeling all dried up.
(25:17):
Like I said earlier, whilesomeone is usually aware of
being under a lot of stress, alot of people don't always
notice burnout when it happens.
So the common wisdom to recoverfrom burnout was, you know,
work fewer hours, take avacation, take some time off,
but occupational.
But occupational burnout is notcaused solely by overwork, it
(25:39):
is more about the environment inwhich you exist and work in.
So this is why it's soimportant for restaurants to
learn about, because it meansthat if we change our
environment, we can helpcontribute to burnout prevention
.
So the World HealthOrganization, a number of years
ago, declared burnout anoccupational phenomenon and it
(26:02):
defines burnout as a syndromeresulting from chronic workplace
stress that is not successfullymanaged within the workplace.
So that means that employershave a responsibility to look
into burnout prevention, becausethe best way to manage burnout
is to prevent it.
(26:22):
Another thing I want to makereally clear that I think this
industry does not understand orknow about burnout is that it is
not about the individual whocan't keep up.
It is not a moral failure.
It does not mean that can't doyour job well or anything like
that.
It is more about, like I saidearlier, the environment in
which you exist in.
(26:42):
So do you have adequateguidance, do you have adequate
support, do you have adequatecompensation, do you have
adequate praise around the workthat you do.
That all contributes to whetheror not you may experience
symptoms of burnout.
Companies are responsible forthe well-being of their
employees in the workplace, andI think managing and preventing
(27:03):
employee burnout is essential,not just because, again, like I
was saying earlier, it's notlike the nice thing to do.
It's not just about that.
It helps retain your talentright, it keeps businesses alive
and it helps keep communitiesthriving, and so I think it's
really, really important to note, you know, that burnout is
(27:25):
something that we can reallyaddress by looking at certain
specific things in the workplace, and that can include, you know
, making sure that people feellike their voices are heard,
that we're creating that senseof belonging in the workplace,
that we're engaging staff andlistening to employees.
(27:48):
You know work related problems.
Again, we can't fix all theproblems.
It's not about fixing anything,but active listening in itself
does help people feel seen andheard, and so it's not always
just about solution driven, youknow, mindset.
It's really more just aboutlistening to understand what
(28:09):
they're experiencing better.
I'll mention a few other thingsthat help prevent burnout, too,
in the workplace.
So, encouraging teamwork Ithink oftentimes we have this
idea in restaurants, likeindividualism is the only way
you know, and it's just not true.
So encouraging teamwork,encouraging our teams to really
(28:29):
rely on each other, really,really helps.
Another one I already mentioned, like including everyone's
input really helps.
Another one I already mentioned, like including everyone's
input, making work feelpurposeful.
I think a lot of times work justfeels like something I got to
do for my paycheck.
But I think if we can figureout a way to share in our values
(28:52):
the workplace, so have morealigned values and make sure
that everyone knows what thevalues of the business are and
everyone feels like they'recontributing to those values and
that they're seen and you knowthat they are.
You know that they're seen inthe values but that they're
actually able to action thosevalues that can make work feel
(29:13):
purposeful and make people feellike again their environment
isn't contributing to burnout.
The last one I'll say I thinkthat causes workplace burnout
but is also something we can useto support to prevent burnout
is role clarity.
I think this gets missed inrestaurants a lot too sometimes.
(29:33):
I know this is something I'vebeen guilty of big time as
someone who grew up in therestaurant industry, and so lack
of role clarity can contributeto workplace burnout, but, on
the opposite end, providing roleclarity can help prevent it.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Now, this is just the beginning of the conversation.
There's so much more to coveron this topic, and Hassell has
not only lended their time tothis episode of the show, but to
an entire course on SubmissionsAcademy.
There's video lessons on topicslike burnout versus stress,
substance use and abuse, equityand inclusion, as well as
leadership support, so you canlearn what it takes to make your
restaurant a better workplace.
Best of all, it's free and youcan check it out in the
(30:11):
description.
Thank you again for tuning inand a big thank you to Hassell
and Not925 for their partnership.
Hello and welcome back to the Pre-Shift Podcast
presented by 7Shifts.
My name is DJ and I'll be yourhost, bringing you everything
you need to know about runningbetter restaurants.
On this episode, we're joinedby Hassell Aviles of Knot9to5.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi, I'm Hassell Aviles.
I use she, her pronouns.
I am the founding director ofNot 9 to 5.
We are a non-profit globalleader in mental health advocacy
and education, specifically forthe hospitality and culinary
industry.
So that includes restaurants,bars, hotels, you name it
(00:39):
breweries, wineries.
Our industry is vast and yeah,so I'm the executive director
and my job is to, you know,basically run the nonprofit.
I also do a lot of publicspeaking and facilitate
workshops around these topics aswell.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
In honor of Mental Health Month, I wanted to chat
with Asel about her experiencein the restaurant industry and
why she came to found Not 9 to 5.
I also wanted to share with yousome of what she's learned
about mental health, burnout andpsychological safety in the
restaurant industry.
We'll start at the beginning,at the moment when Hassell knew
she needed to do somethingdifferent.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
You know, I always say Not 9 to 5 was founded in
instinct and is now cemented indata.
Instinct and is now cemented indata and I believe that to be
true.
And I see that to be truebecause I lived with, like you
just said, I lived with a lot ofmy own mental health challenges
substance use challenges whileI worked in restaurants and even
(01:38):
when I owned a restaurant, andso the entire time that I worked
in restaurants, I never, ever,ever saw workplace mental health
as an open dialogue.
I never was offered support orresources in any of the
establishments that I worked in.
I just saw this massive voidand gap and I experienced
(02:08):
symptoms of burnout varioustimes in my in my life and there
was little to no education orresources or language or even
leadership around this topic.
I always say workplace mentalhealth has been neglected for
centuries in the restaurantindustry, so we have a lot of
catching up to do.
But in terms of your questionof like, was there a pivotal
point?
Yeah, I mean, I thinkdefinitely.
When I had one of my burnouttimes in my life and I hit rock
(02:33):
bottom, as they say, I kind ofhad had enough about the silence
and the shame, I basically hita point where I realized I
wouldn't be embarrassed to tellyou if I broke my elbow.
So why would I be embarrassedif I live with depression, right
?
Or if I'm experiencing a panicattack or having anxiety?
And so when that happened, Iwas running my first business,
(02:55):
which was a food event business.
I'm located here in Toronto,but the nonprofit Not 9 to 5 has
partners around the globe.
So here in Toronto I used torun this nonprofit not nine to
five has partners around theglobe.
So here in Toronto I used torun this event called the
Toronto underground market and Iwas having panic attacks almost
every event that we threw and Iwas having all kinds of other
challenges, and that was myturning point in terms of
(03:18):
speaking openly about my mentalhealth challenges.
So I was very transparent withmy team.
We would have a, you know, inthe middle of a meeting, for
example.
I would sometimes let everyoneknow, you know, like, hey, you
know I'm going through thisstuff with my mental health, I'm
getting help, you know I amgetting treatment.
But I just want to be honestabout this because it does
(03:40):
affect my work and it doesaffect how I show up, affects my
mood, it affects my performance, and I was very honest and
transparent about it and whatthat happened.
What that did was it created alot of psychological safety on
our team for any kind of gavepermission for anyone else to
also share.
And then, from then, I thinkpeople kind of knew that I was
(04:01):
more open about these topics.
So I was asked to one speak ona panel and tell my story in
late 2017.
I did the risk and I did withfive other people wasn't just me
, but the response in that roomwas so incredible and that was
kind of when I realized, okay, Ineed to keep doing this because
it's creating such an amazingresponse from the industry.
(04:24):
It's so obvious that otherpeople are experiencing these
things too, and so in early 2018, we launched Not 9 to 5.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Something you mentioned that it was founded on
instinct and continues throughdata.
What are some of the biggestcontributors to poor mental
health in restaurants in youropinion, For example, I've seen
you mention something like thebrigade system in the past.
I know it's a little uncommonnow, but has a long lasting
legacy.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Can I push back on that?
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I disagree completely .
I think the brigade system isrampant in our industry.
I don't think it's a legacy ofthe past at all.
If you go into any fine diningrestaurant, any of the Michelin
star restaurants, you see thebrigade system absolutely
everywhere.
And I always say that thebrigade system is not just in
kitchens.
The influence of the brigadesystem has very much seeped out
(05:15):
into the rest of the industry.
I worked front line service formost of my career.
I never worked in the kitchenprofessionally but I was even
impacted by the brigade system,because what has happened is
that there has been this kind ofbrainwashing in our industry
where we have adopted thissystem of very intense hierarchy
(05:37):
.
You can't see my hands ifyou're listening to this on a
podcast, but I'm holding myhands up like a triangle.
So the very intense hierarchystarts at the top.
You have one, usually one,maybe two, but usually it's one
person that has most of thedecision making, that gets most
of the credit for the work thatgets done by that establishment,
(05:57):
one person that is constantlyheld up as the you know creative
, the leader, the face of thebusiness, and then everyone else
under that person, followingdown the triangle, has less and
less power and privilege as yougo down, and that's still very
that's still very much the casein a lot of restaurants is
(06:18):
particularly fine dining.
So, even, like I said, front ofyou know, in the frontline
service positions, the thosepositions also run the same.
You have a GM, you know AGMunder them.
You have then following youservers, bartenders, all the way
down to other kinds of bussersor food.
You know handlers, runners,that kind of thing.
(06:39):
Um, it's still hierarchicalthat way, and the people that
have the lower level positionsusually don't make most of the
decision making in the business,usually don't have much say in
terms of creative ideas, usuallydon't get to contribute as much
in terms of how things get doneand where they get done, and
(06:59):
they don't get to decide.
They more like quote unquotetaking orders, which again comes
from the brigade system.
And the brigade system, I thinktoo, contributes to poor mental
health because it's constantlytrying to get us to focus on
efficiency versus trying tocreate an environment that
focuses on humanity or thatfocuses on psychological safety
(07:23):
or that focuses on equity orthat focuses on psychological
safety or that focuses on equity.
And so when you constantly areputting so much pressure on the
people quote, unquote at the top.
What it does, too, is itoftentimes removes any room for
emotional experiences.
I can tell you, when I grew upin restaurants, I was constantly
told to check my emotions atthe door, you know.
(07:46):
But that doesn't actually makesense and that's not a
reasonable request to ask ofanyone, because we are emotional
beings, as human beings.
So asking me to check myemotions at the door is
dehumanizing.
It's a dehumanizing request.
It causes people to repress andsuppress their emotional
experiences and then that's why,as a result, you have an
(08:09):
industry that is rampant withsubstance use, for example,
because that's the most commoncoping tool.
Humans are not meant to repressand suppress their emotional
experiences.
You know, we are meant toexpress them, and when we can't
express them freely, we don'thave psychological safety in the
(08:30):
workplace.
But to go back to your question,you know you asked specifically
like what are other biggestcontributors?
So, aside from the brigadesystem because I still stand by
my, you know my stance on thatbeing a massive impact on our
mental health and poor employeemental health.
But aside from that, poorcontributors are really,
(08:52):
unfortunately, around a lot ofthe aspects that have been
normalized in this industry.
So what I mean by that is, forexample, inadequate breaks.
That is something that is verycommon in this industry.
In restaurants and bars it'sunless you're going for a
cigarette.
It's almost like you're notallowed to take a break.
You know, and even though weare operating in places, states,
(09:16):
provinces, whatever country youlive in where there's legally
mandated, you know, or legallyavailable breaks for employees,
they still don't take them right.
You're still kind of normalizedto push through, to work
through, and so it kind ofbuilds up.
And when you don't get adequatebreaks to, you know, take a
(09:37):
minute, take a breath, have somewater, maybe power through a
gondola bar, whatever, what haveyou?
Power through a gondola bar orwhatever, what have you?
It really builds up to this go,go, go, go, nonstop experience.
And so what's happening in yourbody is like tons of cortisol,
huge adrenaline.
You know you're not balancingit out.
(09:58):
There's not a lot of regulation.
That happens.
In addition to the lack ofbreaks, there's also just
unconventional hours.
You know that interfere withour sleep.
Again, I know that as abartender or as a server, like I
used to be, or as a cook or achef, or you know other aspects,
(10:19):
sometimes you can't controlyour schedule right, you have
these unconventional hours.
That's just the hours that ourindustry works on.
You know, obviously ournonprofits called not nine to
five because we recognize thatthis industry does not run on
your, you know, conventionalhours.
There's still ways to workaround that, you know.
There's still ways to create,for example, a balance.
(10:41):
I know now these days there's alot of restaurants using like
four day work weeks and stufflike that.
So there's still ways you canwork around the unconventional
hours to help balance people out.
Another one is, like I alreadymentioned, the easy access to
substances.
So I think the coping tool thatI said, which is the most
common maladaptive coping tool,which is substance use, one
(11:04):
thing that's normalized in thisindustry is the massive
consumption of alcohol and Iunderstand that everyone has
different consumption levels andI'm very much respect that.
What I have a problem with andwhat I don't respect are
establishments that areproviding that alcohol, because
sometimes it's being used as aquote, unquote, perk, you know,
(11:28):
or a reward, exactly shift drink.
That's dangerous, that createssubstance dependency in the
brain and the body and the mind,Once you start teaching
yourself through habits thatyou've earned it and that you
know a good day means a beer ora shot, or a bad day means a
beer or a shot, and this keepshappening over and over and over
(11:49):
again.
You're creating habits whichcreate dependency, and that's
dangerous, especially if it'sbeing provided by the workplace.
Oftentimes I've heard also hey,we have a keg in the walk-in,
or you know a bunch of beers inthe walk-in that are meant for
staff.
Again, not safe, not dangerousto have workplaces supply that
(12:10):
kind of easy access to alcohol.
I think if people decide to dothis for themselves, that's a
totally different story, and Ithink also if you have a balance
between non-alcoholic andalcoholic beverages, that's also
another harm reduction that youcan put in place.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Another example some people even start to smoke
cigarettes just to be able tostep out and take an actual
break, which is wild to me.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
That's a great example, though, dominic.
I love that because that'sanother example of a substance
that's normalized in theindustry, right, and like you're
so right, I actually do know ofpeople also that started
smoking just so that they wouldhave a quote unquote, socially
acceptable.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yeah, why do they get to stand outside every hour for
10 minutes?
You know what I mean and Idon't.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Can I add one more thing?
So I think another contributorthat often gets missed is our
industry still has a very bigmisconception around
vulnerability.
This industry thinks still thatvulnerability is a weakness
when in reality vulnerability isa strength.
It is not easy to be vulnerablewith each other.
(13:17):
It is much easier to repressand suppress our vulnerability,
but it is a risk, right, becausewhen we work in an industry
where you have to be seen astough and strong and there's
still very much this likemasculine idea of what success
looks like and this veryaggressive idea of what success
looks like, you know what a chefis supposed to look like, what
(13:40):
a you know manager is supposedto operate and speak like and
behave.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Now I think this ties well into the topic of
psychological safety.
Obviously there's a connectionbetween that and mental health,
but what is that connection?
How do we define psychologicalsafety as it relates to
restaurants, and what are someof the other signs that a
restaurant is not apsychologically safe place to
work?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
It's a great question .
So I will start with I lovethis.
I love this request fordefinitions.
I will start by saying that Ithink language helps us connect
differently to topics.
I think language helps usbetter expand our understanding.
So I love this request fordefinitions because then this
(14:22):
way we can all get aligned andI'll be very clear about what it
is that we're talking about.
So actually, before I get intopsychological safety, I just
want to define mental health andalso what mental health is and
is not, because I think thisterm gets thrown around all the
time, and I think half the timeit's probably misused.
Mental health is a neutral term, so that's, that's the first
(14:45):
thing I want to say.
Mental health does not meanthat you have mental illness.
We all have mental health as anaspect of our overall health,
and so I think it's reallyimportant to know that it's just
a state of well-being in whichwe, as individuals, can realize
our own potential, we can copewith the normal stresses of life
and we can work productivelyand fruitfully.
(15:06):
Mental health does not meanyou're always in a good mood,
right?
Mental health does not meanthat you're always calm and
everything's stable.
Mental health crises don't endwhen we all just feel really
good and can be, you know,constantly in good moods.
Mental health is not, like Isaid, the absence of illness or
(15:27):
being happy all the time.
The other thing I want toclarify is workplace mental
health.
So workplace mental health is ajoint effort between employers
and employees.
Employers' role is to establishpolicies, processes and
resources and the role of theemployee is to manage their
mental health and seekassistance when required.
So that's why I was sayingearlier, it's so important to
(15:47):
create an environment wherepeople do feel that it is safe
to seek assistance, to seek andaccept help when needed.
And your question aroundpsychological safety.
So psychological safety is anenvironment where candor and
risk are expected and encouraged, without any fear of
retribution.
(16:07):
This does not mean thateveryone has to be polite and
kind all the time to each other.
You know this is not whatpsychological safety is about.
Psychological safety is aboutcreating an environment, like I
said, where people can makemistakes, you know, they can
give and receive feedback, theycan show up as their authentic
(16:28):
self, they can be vulnerablewith one another and there's no
fear of negative consequencestowards how you're perceived or
to your job itself.
And when I first startedlearning about how psychological
safety.
I was so alarmed becausethere's almost no restaurants
I've ever worked in thatprovided this kind of
(16:50):
environment for me.
I never felt like mistakes wereokay.
Oftentimes they were seen assomething to be punished or
penalized for, instead of beingseen as a natural part of the
learning experience.
You know what I mean.
Like failure and mistakes arean opportunity to learn.
They're not an opportunity tofire someone or, you know, or
(17:14):
punish someone.
But unfortunately in thisindustry, you know it's tough
and so I think why is itimportant?
So here's a huge thing tounderstand.
If you're a manager or an owneroperator, the benefits of
psychologically safe workenvironments are enormous.
They're massive.
(17:34):
So they include highperformance.
They include innovation,creativity, resilience and
learning.
This has been proven inresearch time and time again.
The other thing I always like topoint out is that the
restaurant industry, theculinary industry, the
hospitality industry we have notinvested a lot of money into
workplace mental health and so,as a result, I think it's
(17:59):
important to look to otherindustries that have right.
There's a lot of otherindustries that have put tons,
millions of money into research,into data, into figuring out
how to create psychologicallysafe work environments.
For example, google, a numberof years ago, went on a quest to
figure out how do you build theperfect team, how do you build
the most high performance teams,how do you produce teams that
(18:23):
are the most effective in theworkplace?
And they spent tons of money.
As you can imagine, google isone of the biggest employers in
the world.
They hired sociologists,therapists you know researchers.
They spent so much time andmoney on this.
They researched hundreds ofteens, thousands of people.
As a result of all of this work,it turns out that the number
(18:46):
one factor for high performanceis psychological safety.
One factor for high performanceis psychological safety.
So when we consider that, whenwe think about that, we are
missing out as an industry interms of high performance.
We are missing out in terms ofproductivity.
We are missing out in terms ofinnovation, creativity,
resilience and learning.
So this is not just something,like I said, it's not just about
(19:08):
being nice and, like you know,a kumbaya moment.
This is not what we're talkingabout.
We're also talking about how toimprove your business.
There's a massive return oninvestment, on investing in
workplace mental health andpsychological safety.
So when we're looking at anindustry that is still
recovering from the pandemic andis still always complaining
about finding labor, you know,and the impacts of the great
(19:30):
resignation.
I think it's never been a moreimportant time to invest money,
time and effort into learningmore about workplace mental
health and psychological safety.
The other part of your questionyou were asking is like how do
you know if your team haspsychological safety or not?
How do you know if you'repracticing it or not?
So have your team answer thesequestions or ask yourself these
(19:54):
questions as a leader.
If you make a mistake on thisteam, is it being held against
you?
Are you able to bring up toughtopics and problems?
Is it safe to take a risk onthis team or in this restaurant
or bar?
Is it difficult to ask for helpfrom others on this team?
Does this team accept othersfor being different?
(20:15):
Would anyone on the teamdeliberately act in a way to
undermine your efforts?
And the last question is do youfeel like your unique skills
and talents are valued andutilized?
A lot of times in restaurants,the answers to these questions
will not be super high withpsychological safety and again,
(20:37):
I'm not here to make anyone feelbad.
It's more just about like whatan incredible opportunity we
have.
Like what an incredibleopportunity we have as leaders
and managers and restaurantowners to start to learn more
about this and change theanswers to these questions so
that we can create environmentsof high performance, high
creativity, high innovation, youknow, et cetera, et cetera.
(21:00):
I think the last thing I want tosay on psychological safety is
also that it doesn't mean thatyou're constantly valuing your
employees' voices, youremployees' experiences and
you're constantly asking themfor input and so that they are
involved in the decision making.
This goes against the brigadesystem.
(21:21):
This is also why I'm such anadvocate of speaking out about
the brigade system, because thebrigade system is not an
environment of psychologicalsafety.
It creates an environment offear.
It creates an environment ofauthority because it comes from
a military background.
But with psychological safety,I think you are replacing blame
(21:43):
with curiosity, you know and andyou're really focusing on
listening and learning, so thatyou're giving attention not just
the leaders, the power to shareopinions and ideas and
experiences, but also everyoneelse on the team as well.
What that does in the end isalso create a more equitable
(22:05):
workplace, because a lot oftimes, only certain people that
look a certain way get to beinvolved in decision making, get
to have ideas shared and getcredit for the work they do.
An equitable workplace is apsychologically safe workplace.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
The last piece I want to cover today is burnout.
So you guys did a survey and87% of respondents said they've
experienced burnout inrestaurant works, which I think
is fair to say is pretty mucheveryone.
So what did you learn aboutburnout in relation to the
restaurant industry?
You know, like, what are someof the causes of it and what
does it look like.
You know when you're observingit.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Thank you so much for asking about burnout.
I think it's one of thoseexperiences that often gets
normalized with the work that wedo in restaurants.
I think sometimes people areexperiencing burnout and they
don't even know it because it'sso normalized, right?
Because it's just so rampant.
Like you said, it's everyone,everyone at some point in this
(23:04):
industry.
If you've worked in theindustry for more than three
years, has probably experiencedsome symptom of burnout and
that's terrifying and sodangerous because it can also
lead to other you know, mentalhealth challenges and it can
lead to a lot of other substanceuse challenges as well if it
goes unaddressed.
(23:25):
So I want to be again.
I love definitions, I lovelanguage, I love being very
clear with language.
Burnout is not the same as toomuch stress.
I want to be really clear aboutthat.
So if you're physicallyexhausted, that does not always
mean that you are experiencingburnout.
Usually, the way I like to thinkabout it and this is something
I've learned through doing a lotof reading and research on
(23:47):
these topics stress, a good wayto think of it is like stress is
usually involves too much,involves too much.
So too much pressure, too muchdemand on you physically and
mentally.
People are stressed.
They usually know it right.
You're pretty aware of ifyou're too stressed.
Stress can be defined as anytype of change that causes
(24:11):
physical, emotional orpsychological strain.
Feeling stressed but stillhaving your needs met, you're
probably still okay.
You're probably still doing allright.
There's a lot of people thatdeal with a lot of high stress
jobs, but their needs are met.
They're taking care of theirneeds, whether that's physical,
emotional, financial, what haveyou?
On the other hand, burnout isabout not enough.
(24:32):
So if stress is about too much,burnout is about not enough.
So being burned out meansfeeling empty and mentally
exhausted, lacking motivation,beyond the point of caring.
I remember when I wasexperiencing burnout, I realized
one of the biggest indicatorsfor me was that I realized that
the things that were usually inmy life, bringing me joy or that
(24:56):
would usually make me feel goodor excited, I just didn't care.
I was just so numb, I was sochecked out.
I felt like literally sodisassociated from myself.
So people that experienceburnout often feel hopeless
about change and you know, it'slike this, almost this sense of
feeling all dried up.
(25:17):
Like I said earlier, whilesomeone is usually aware of
being under a lot of stress, alot of people don't always
notice burnout when it happens.
So the common wisdom to recoverfrom burnout was, you know,
work fewer hours, take avacation, take some time off,
but occupational.
But occupational burnout is notcaused solely by overwork, it
(25:39):
is more about the environment inwhich you exist and work in.
So this is why it's soimportant for restaurants to
learn about, because it meansthat if we change our
environment, we can helpcontribute to burnout prevention
.
So the World HealthOrganization, a number of years
ago, declared burnout anoccupational phenomenon and it
(26:02):
defines burnout as a syndromeresulting from chronic workplace
stress that is not successfullymanaged within the workplace.
So that means that employershave a responsibility to look
into burnout prevention, becausethe best way to manage burnout
is to prevent it.
(26:22):
Another thing I want to makereally clear that I think this
industry does not understand orknow about burnout is that it is
not about the individual whocan't keep up.
It is not a moral failure.
It does not mean that can't doyour job well or anything like
that.
It is more about, like I saidearlier, the environment in
which you exist in.
(26:42):
So do you have adequateguidance, do you have adequate
support, do you have adequatecompensation, do you have
adequate praise around the workthat you do.
That all contributes to whetheror not you may experience
symptoms of burnout.
Companies are responsible forthe well-being of their
employees in the workplace, andI think managing and preventing
(27:03):
employee burnout is essential,not just because, again, like I
was saying earlier, it's notlike the nice thing to do.
It's not just about that.
It helps retain your talentright, it keeps businesses alive
and it helps keep communitiesthriving, and so I think it's
really, really important to note, you know, that burnout is
(27:25):
something that we can reallyaddress by looking at certain
specific things in the workplace, and that can include, you know
, making sure that people feellike their voices are heard,
that we're creating that senseof belonging in the workplace,
that we're engaging staff andlistening to employees.
(27:48):
You know work related problems.
Again, we can't fix all theproblems.
It's not about fixing anything,but active listening in itself
does help people feel seen andheard, and so it's not always
just about solution driven, youknow, mindset.
It's really more just aboutlistening to understand what
(28:09):
they're experiencing better.
I'll mention a few other thingsthat help prevent burnout, too,
in the workplace.
So, encouraging teamwork Ithink oftentimes we have this
idea in restaurants, likeindividualism is the only way
you know, and it's just not true.
So encouraging teamwork,encouraging our teams to really
(28:29):
rely on each other, really,really helps.
Another one I already mentioned, like including everyone's
input really helps.
Another one I already mentioned, like including everyone's
input, making work feelpurposeful.
I think a lot of times work justfeels like something I got to
do for my paycheck.
But I think if we can figureout a way to share in our values
(28:52):
the workplace, so have morealigned values and make sure
that everyone knows what thevalues of the business are and
everyone feels like they'recontributing to those values and
that they're seen and you knowthat they are.
You know that they're seen inthe values but that they're
actually able to action thosevalues that can make work feel
(29:13):
purposeful and make people feellike again their environment
isn't contributing to burnout.
The last one I'll say I thinkthat causes workplace burnout
but is also something we can useto support to prevent burnout
is role clarity.
I think this gets missed inrestaurants a lot too sometimes.
(29:33):
I know this is something I'vebeen guilty of big time as
someone who grew up in therestaurant industry, and so lack
of role clarity can contributeto workplace burnout, but, on
the opposite end, providing roleclarity can help prevent it.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Now, this is just the beginning of the conversation.
There's so much more to coveron this topic, and Hassell has
not only lended their time tothis episode of the show, but to
an entire course on SubmissionsAcademy.
There's video lessons on topicslike burnout versus stress,
substance use and abuse, equityand inclusion, as well as
leadership support, so you canlearn what it takes to make your
restaurant a better workplace.
Best of all, it's free and youcan check it out in the
(30:11):
description.
Thank you again for tuning inand a big thank you to Hassell
and Not925 for their partnership.
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