October 13, 2025 • 36 mins
What if your best deals live where most investors won’t look? We sit down with Micah Nichols of US Lead List to unpack the quiet power of pre‑probate and inheritance leads—data‑driven, time‑sensitive opportunities that reward empathy as much as execution. Micah takes us inside his system: seven data sources stitched into a monthly national list, segmentation that prioritizes the highest‑value sellers, and a humane approach that opens doors without crossing lines.
We dig into the nuts and bolts of making this niche work in today’s market. Micah explains why surviving spouses and small landlords with multiple properties respond differently, how to craft first‑touch letters that spark curiosity instead of resistance, and where AI truly helps—cleaning messy records, enriching contacts, and triaging replies—before handing off to a real human at the moment trust is on the line. He also gets candid about a brutal six‑figure loss from a flooded flip and a lapsed insurance policy, a hard reminder that operational details decide outcomes.
If you’ve wondered whether direct mail still converts, how to scale cold calling without grinding yourself down, or how to serve heirs with real care while protecting your margins, this conversation is a field guide. You’ll leave with concrete steps: segment your inheritance list, build a gentle mail cadence, outsource first dials, track additional‑property owners, and tighten underwriting with multiple exits ready. Want more like this? Subscribe, share with a friend who invests, and leave a quick review telling us which outreach channel is winning for you right now.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:41):
Welcome everybody to Professors Real Estate Investing
Podcast.
I'm with Michael Nichols.
How are you doing, Micah?
Doing great.
Thanks for having me.
No problem, no problem.
Let's uh say a little bit, talkabout a little bit about Micah
right here.
He owns the U.S.
lead list where they generateconstant uh flow for pre-probate
inheritance search leads andresidential, land and commercial
(01:01):
leads.
So, Micah, we're getting intothis.
Uh what attracted you in yourreal estate investing journey
over a decade ago?
SPEAKER_00 (01:12):
I mean, you know, I think it comes down to control
uh my kind of financial destiny.
And then, you know, just I thinkaside from that, I just always
liked real estate.
You know, didn't really matter,lands, houses, historical, new,
just all the things.
Um, you know, as cliche as itis, uh Robert Kiyosaki's book
(01:35):
really kind of seeded the wholething.
Um, but yeah, that's kind ofwhat drew me in.
And then yeah, I bought my firstproperty 10 years ago, a little
uh fourplex for 52,000 bucks,and I was cash flowing 800 bucks
a month, and I was hooked fromthen on.
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
Okay.
Nice.
And then so you're the owner,the proud owner of the U.S.
lead list.
Uh for those who aren't are newto the concept, what exactly is
pre-probate inheritance leadsand why is it valuable in our
especially in our time today?
SPEAKER_00 (02:10):
Yeah, well, uh, let me answer for why it's valuable
in our time frame.
So, you know, baby boomers areat a place where like they're
kind of phasing out.
You know, it's like, and anddeath inevitably is this
exchange from one generation tothe next.
And that is uh, you know, uh, beit uh awkward, complicated, and
(02:31):
sad, uh, that is an inevitableforce that everyone has to deal
with in one way, shape, or form.
And so why it's pertinent toreal estate, real estate
professionals, um, is becauseyou know, at that transfer
point, there's this kind ofdistribution of assets that
happens and it's forced.
It's not, you know, it's notthis something that like people
(02:52):
really kind of choose.
It like it happens, and uh youcan kind of insert yourself into
you know the the I guess thesellers' minds at the right time
with the right messaging togenerate more lead flow for your
business.
SPEAKER_01 (03:07):
Okay.
Nice.
Yeah, because uh I knew a lotabout not a whole lot, but I
knew something about the probateinheritance and I know it can be
definitely vital.
I know it's a um somethingthat's not like generally in the
spotlight much when it comes toreal estate investing.
And um another question I wasgonna ask you about is so how
(03:28):
does the US lead list uh findand verify these type of leads?
SPEAKER_00 (03:33):
Sure, yeah.
So we bring in data from sevenseparate channels, and and that
those seven channels, they'reall indicators of when someone
passes away.
So, you know, be it obituary ordeath notices or government
data, we we have a bunch ofdifferent places where we intake
that data um and then we verifythat you know that if someone
(03:55):
passed away, you know, the nextstep is do they own real estate?
And so we kind of merge thosetwo things together.
We're not basing it off ofprobate, it's before probate.
And that's you know, our mainproduct is called inheritance
because uh it's you know,there's there's a few categories
that don't ever go throughprobate.
So, you know, if I'm talkingabout the lists, there's kind of
(04:15):
you know four main groups.
You know, it's pre-probate,that's when something actually
does need to go through probateor should, doesn't always, and
then surviving spouses andtrusts, and then the last is
interfamily transfers before thedeath.
And so we're building that on aum you know monthly basis uh at
(04:35):
a national scale.
So we're generating an entirelist every month based on all
that input data that we'rereceiving.
And so, you know, we've got uhwe spend a lot of money on data
to kind of line up all thesepoints um and uh and give our
customers you know the best, youknow, most relevant information
on this specific niche.
SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
Okay.
Okay.
And then I had to add it onquestion since you know it's
2025 and the age of AI is justgoing bananas every single day.
How does how does AI help youout with that too?
SPEAKER_00 (05:10):
Well, I mean, we certainly uh insert uh AI for
data management.
You know, so one of the thingsthat you know folks who aren't
in the data industry may notknow, but an inherent challenge
is kind of merging two separatedata sets together.
Um, you know, the discrepanciesbetween the two uh is kind of a
(05:32):
headache.
So if you've ever, you know,let's say gone to the county and
you're looking for taxdelinquent data and they have it
denoted or in in columns thatdon't match up with your data,
it can be a huge pain in thebutt to kind of line all that
information up to you know,maybe get it skip traced so you
can call them or you know,whatever that may be.
(05:54):
So for us, we we internally useuh AI a lot to kind of map that
data, organize it properly, andkeep it going.
But I mean, you know, it's it'sfunny, it's like you know, AI is
evolving way, way faster than umI think you know my little brain
can comprehend.
And so, you know, that said,like there's always iteration
(06:17):
jumps.
You know, it's like you know,right now uh, you know, we're
we're using AI kind of you know,almost agents, uh, to you know
do a lot of the legwork back andforth between um you know
sellers and the acquisition, andthey're kind of building up uh
you know that relationship andthen ultimately pushing it to a
real person once it gets to a uhyou know a conversational point
(06:41):
when they're like, hey, I'mready to do something, I'm ready
to set an appointment, whateverit may be.
So, you know, the yeah, AI, uhit's it's really uh the you know
the bottleneck is our creativityto figure out ways to use it.
Uh so yeah, it's it's hard toenumerate on all the possible
scenarios.
SPEAKER_01 (06:59):
Scenarios, exactly, especially like I said nowadays,
because trust me, like yourbrain, my brain, I mean, there's
just so much information andit's it's useful, especially
when it comes to investing inall different facets of uh the
niche.
Another thing I would a questionI want to ask you, uh when it
comes to this, what are some ofthe biggest misconceptions for
(07:21):
investors who've been workingwith inheritance uh with like
inheritance sellers?
SPEAKER_00 (07:27):
Yeah, I mean, so one of the things that I uh try and
have people understand is like,you know, usually folks who are
just starting out who you knowhaven't really you know cut
their teeth yet on uh kind ofdirect to seller marketing,
usually probate isn't the bestplace to start.
Um it's nuanced, there's a lotof caveats that kind of come up
(07:51):
that are special to the list.
And so if uh if you handle itwrong, if you if you approach it
the from the wrong direction,you end up kind of breaking your
opportunity before you get achance to buy the property.
Um, or you know, list theproperty, whatever it may be.
Like we deal with a good amountof realtors as well.
But um yeah, I mean, like forme, like it's all how I coach my
(08:14):
clients, how I talk to peopleabout it, it's all about
delicacy and meeting that personwhere they're at.
Because you know, if you'remarketing to someone and they
just lost something that'sirreplaceable, it's gone.
Yes.
Um you can't possibly understandall of what's happening for
them, right?
And and the only way that youget a window into their world,
(08:37):
into what they're feeling, intowhat's happening for them is by
being a good active listener,asking open-ended questions, and
you know, basically getting thisperson to know, like, and trust
you, um, you know, kind of onthat outset call, that discovery
call, when you're when you'reyou know, trying to figure out
like if you have a purpose withthis person, can you solve their
(08:58):
all their problems?
And uh, and so yeah, it's it'sit's funny, like, you know,
these calls are slower, it's notlike uh mass texting or um you
know you you just sending outyou know 10,000 postcards saying
I want to buy your house cash orsomething like that.
Um that approach does work, butit's a numbers team.
(09:18):
Um I kind of come at it from adifferent angle.
You know, I do a good amount ofdirect mail, we do cold calling
to market to the list.
And, you know, on my firstletter, like I don't even say I
want to buy the property, I justsay, hey, I have a question
about your property.
Um and so it drives curiosity.
They reach out and then I I kindof you know begin that
conversation with a question,even in the letter.
(09:41):
Uh, and so I'm just trying toopen up their book, try and
understand what's happening forthem, see if I can get their
timeline, understand what theirpain points are, because you
know, really there's like twobig things that are happening
for these people.
They're dealing with anoverwhelming amount of emotions,
and then on top of that, they'redealing with logistics that
they've likely never had to gothrough, or maybe once or twice
(10:03):
ever in their life.
And so you're combining twopretty significant challenges at
once, and so you kind of have tohelp them wade through it
sometimes.
You you're you end up being anactive, you know, sometimes
almost like a um a counselor ina way, to like, you know, help
them see what can happen if itcan work out.
(10:24):
You know, most of the time,especially with spouses, the
most common response I get is Ijust don't know what to do.
You know, they're they're justthey're just shell-shocked.
Um, and that's fine.
You know, it's like they don'tknow what to do, they're being
honest.
It's like, okay, great.
You know, well, I'm here, youknow, I I basically, you know, I
guess work to deliver value andshow up where you can.
(10:47):
Um, because you know, peopleremember when you lend a helpful
hand.
Like they do.
And and for me, like that's kindof you know, all of again, how I
coach.
I, you know, I use this data.
I run a local investing companyuh in the kind of Madison,
Wisconsin greater uhmetropolitan area.
And so, you know, I wear twohats.
(11:07):
I I run US lead list, but I alsoinvest uh full-time myself.
And so I'm active, I'm workingthese, I'm developing
strategies, I'm always trying tolearn more, I'm trying to make
it better, trying to get ahigher ROI on on you know what
I'm doing in my marketing to bemore relevant.
And this is you know, kind ofthat servant heart, you know,
showing up and helping peoplehas been the best way that I've
(11:29):
found one, to feel good aboutmyself at the end of the day,
you know, when I you know put myhead on my pillow, I sleep well
at night.
And then two, it it just makesends up making me more money.
You know, people like workingwith people who they trust, who
they're confident in whatthey're saying.
And uh yeah, that thatdistinction, it's it's small,
(11:49):
um, but it's it makes all thedifference for the the message
that you're delivering for uh tothat person in that you know
kind of crazy circumstancethey're in.
SPEAKER_01 (11:59):
You you got great points right there.
Uh, because I was gonna ask likewhat the process is, but you
actually explained it.
Being compassionate with thatperson, listening to that
person, listen listening is thekey.
I always tell people, listen towhat they're going through.
The time period that they'regoing through right there, it's
it's devastating.
I mean, they and like you say,they they don't know what to do.
(12:20):
But when somebody lends out ahelping hand, and it's and I
love the way that you approachit because the way you approach
it and you're sensitive to theirneeds, it goes a long way.
And people remember that.
That's that that's that humankindness that it it can never be
replaced because they'll alwaysremember like I could trust this
person because in my time ofneed, he helped me.
(12:40):
So I loved I love the way youwent about going, you go about
doing that on a regular basis.
And then the next question I hadto ask, because this is key also
with the time period we are.
Um how important do you think,as you elaborate a little bit on
it, about the direct mail, coldcalling?
Um, how important that's is thatstill nowadays?
(13:01):
Because I I'll I'll get you alittle story where I was helping
out a client, and uh there's alot of for pre-foreclosed homes
and foreclosed homes here in thestate of California.
And it was down in OrangeCounty, Southern California, and
uh I told the client how to goabout, they wanted to write a
(13:21):
letter in in a compassionateway, so I helped them go about
doing it, but there was noresponse.
But uh how how do you view a lotof like the direct mailing, the
cold calling, how how effectiveis is it still nowadays?
SPEAKER_00 (13:38):
I mean, from what I've seen, you know, like cold
calling uh is a grind.
Direct mail is expensive, youknow uh you know buying media,
you know, doing you know PPC,SEO, um, you know, social media
(13:59):
marketing.
Every every one of those tacticshas its upside and its downside.
And uh what I feel like, youknow, personally in my own my
own businesses, I I mostly docold calling and I mostly do
direct mail.
I don't do a lot on the digitalside.
And you know, that that ischanging, like we're
incorporating more as we keep onscaling.
(14:20):
But you know, personally, youknow, if you're doing direct
mail right, if you'reconnecting, like there you will
get traction.
But it is like anything else,right?
It's like, you know, if you lookon your um, you know, your your
PPC campaign, you got you knowhow many, how many views you
got, you got how many clicks yougot, you got how many form fills
(14:41):
you got.
And it's the same thing withdirect mail, it's a numbers
game.
Like, you know, people just needto scale that operation, you
know.
So on a monthly basis, you know,depending, we're sending, you
know, probably I would guesslike three, four thousand
letters a month.
Um, and you know, so like thatworks.
(15:02):
We just you know closed on onelast week from that.
Uh, I got you know a couple inthe funnel that I should be
contracts, you know, before theend of the week.
Like it absolutely still workson the direct mail side.
Cold call, same thing.
You know, it's a numbers game.
Uh, I don't I don't cold callmyself.
I outsource that.
I am not patient enough to sitthere and dial or you know, the
(15:23):
headset on like that's not mygame.
I don't have time for that.
But you find a good partner uhto outsource that too.
And you know, basically you'rejust getting hand raisers.
Hey, yeah, I want to sell.
And you know, we just got acontract on a three unit we
brought uh purchase.
Let's see, in downtown Madison,you know, we're we're selling,
we bought it at 600.
We're uh you know have anaccepted offer at 725.
(15:46):
So that's like that'll be a goodlittle deal, uh, all said and
done.
Um, so you know, to me, theyboth still work.
Uh that each has their up anddownside.
I like cold calling because it'sscalable.
You can have 10 dialers workingyour market, you can have people
calling, you can have themgetting traction while you're
sleeping.
That to me is beautiful.
(16:07):
Uh, same thing with direct mail.
You know, the downside is thatit's out on the outset, it's
more expensive.
Costs a lot of money to senddirect mail.
You know, first class stamps,what, 78 cents right now?
Yes.
But the beauty of direct mail isthat it's physical.
It's you know, people can deletea voicemail, they can, they can,
you know, uh delete a text, theycan uh you know, delete your
(16:27):
your uh email when they send itto you, but uh letter, you know,
like I've had clients or notclients, but I've had um sellers
call me and they're like, youknow, my mom had your letter
pinned on her refrigerator andit's been sitting here, and she
so first I I mailed because thehusband passed away, and then
the the mother passed away.
(16:48):
And so then the daughter calledme, you know, years later.
Um, and you know, we ended uptransacting from that.
And so I like the physicality ofdirect mail if your messaging is
right, if you're if you're beingconsistent in it, it is a
physical presence that you knowcannot really be duplicated on
the you know the digital uhlandscape.
SPEAKER_01 (17:11):
That that's beat me too.
I I like the the physical in inthe hand because like you said,
you can delete uh you can deletean email, you can delete a text,
but when it has the physicalpresence in your hand, that
that's a that's a whole notherlevel right there in itself.
Yeah, and that's the old schoolway of doing things, like
mailing it out, like yeah, didyou get it?
Yes, I received it.
SPEAKER_00 (17:30):
Well, and and you know, kind of back to AI and
what you're talking about, likeAI is amazing, right?
Uh but at the end of the day,the people who currently control
AI, and who knows if it'll getout of control, but we're all
humans.
And at the end of you know, theday everything is a
human-to-human experience,right?
And you know, the people who arecrushing it figured out the best
(17:52):
way to kind of incorporate waysto automate parts of that, and
then they insert the human atits most critical point.
And you know, that person showsup and they are you know rock
steady, they're closer, they'redoing whatever they can.
They're you know, they show uptrying to relate to that other
human on the other side.
And if you can do that well atscale, you're gonna win.
(18:14):
Um, I and I think that's thebest way right now to
incorporate AI and automationand all of those things.
Um it's not the only way, but Iyou know, for me again, like
that feels good in you know, mymy own little heart of how to
conduct business that you knowhelps me sleep at night.
SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
Great, great.
Thank you for that advice rightthere.
And then the flip side with withyour real estate journey and
everything you've done, I wantto ask what's a mistake or a
deal gone wrong that taught youa valuable lesson.
SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
Yeah, I just closed on one.
So I bought this place.
It was it was gonna be a quickflip.
Um and three weeks after webought it, the basement flooded.
And you know, we had you know,we had insurance, but it was a
sub pump failure.
Insurance wouldn't cover it.
So you know, we we had to shellout uh you know, some money
(19:08):
fixed all that.
It wasn't a big deal.
We we still would have beenprofitable uh had that been the
only thing that happened.
Um so you know, then we got itunder contract.
We, you know, uh we were justabout to close.
We are and the sellers weredoing their final walkthrough,
and a plastic piece on thetoilet on the second floor
(19:31):
ruptured, and water wascascading down in this house for
a week and a half, two weeks,something like that.
Goodness.
And so, you know, everything wasset to go.
We were gonna close, we were alldone.
It w it was good.
We were it was gravy, we'regonna make money, and then this
happened, and so we're like, youknow, pardon, pardon you know,
(19:52):
pardon my verbiage, but oh shit,like right.
This is crazy.
Um so we're like, all right,well, we canceled the contract,
you know, we we did all thelogistics around that, and we
went to uh file an insuranceclaim.
And one of my partners uh boughtterm insurance for this
property.
So we had a specific amount oftime, and our term expired four
(20:17):
days before this happened.
And so we're sitting on thisproperty, we didn't have
insurance on it, it flooded,there was no way to you know
make it work.
We weren't gonna you know doinsurance fraud, we weren't
playing that game.
And so we just closed on it, andyou know, at the at the end of
that whole story, we ended uplosing um it was 110K on that
(20:40):
one.
So a big kick in the teeth,right?
It's like and and honestly,first deal I've ever lost money
on in real estate.
I've had a pretty good trackrecord thus far.
Uh so you know the the littlelogistical details matter and
put them in someone's hands,either you know, your own or
someone who you can trust that'sgonna make sure that they happen
(21:02):
when they need to happen.
SPEAKER_01 (21:03):
Yes.
Oh wow.
You you definitely that was akick in the teeth.
I always talk about uh withwater.
Water is one of those thingswhere I used to work for
appliance business years ago,and uh there were guys who would
hook up like the back of thewater line for you know to get
water and ice in yourrefrigerator.
Oh, Tony, it's just leaking alittle bit.
I say, no, I don't want itleaking at all because that
(21:26):
little drop right there, it'sgonna cost thousands beyond
thousands of dollars, and I'mnot gonna have the owner on my
tail about because you didn'tcheck it just right.
But yeah, water is one of thosethings where you have to make
sure everything is secure, mostdefinitely.
SPEAKER_00 (21:41):
Well, I feel that.
I wish I would have uh I wish Iwould I would have heard you say
that uh you know a couple monthsuh a couple months ago out of
the news.
Um yeah, that was a rough one.
Otherwise, you know, I I think Ithink it's like any business.
Um, you know, there's risks ineverything that we do.
Um, you know, the way that youposition and think about you
(22:04):
know how you're doing realestate.
Um, you know, for me, the themost helpful bit of advice I got
is like I always make money whenI buy the property.
I'm not hoping something greatwill happen.
I'm not hoping that you know thedominoes will fall my way.
I I know in one way, shape, orform that I'm gonna make money
on this transaction by one of mymultiple exits that I have that
(22:26):
I know that I can take tomonetize the property.
And that's kept me pretty safeso far, except for that flooded
(23:10):
house twice.
SPEAKER_01 (23:11):
But but but that that was a that was a great
lesson to learn, you know.
It was a one-shot deal.
You're never gonna happen to dothat again.
SPEAKER_00 (23:17):
Absolutely, never, never again.
Yep, yeah.
You you feel that pain and uhand the loss, and yeah, that's
uh it reminds you frequently uhand instills instills the
memory.
SPEAKER_01 (23:29):
Yes, it does.
Yes, it does.
And then another question Iwould ask, what marker change do
you what market trends do yousee right now that make
inheritance or probate leadsespecially especially timely now
in our period of time?
SPEAKER_00 (23:45):
I mean, I don't I don't think that it's changed
per se.
I think they're always timely.
You know, it's a it's aconsistent, it's it's evergreen,
it's something that's that'salways going to be around while
there's while there's humansaround.
Um but I think there's some youknow macroeconomics that play
into it to a degree.
(24:06):
You know, right now it's a toughtime in the market.
Interest rates are still high.
There's you know way moresellers than buyers, you know,
kind of historical highs on thatside.
And so, you know, kind of goneare the COVID days where you
know you put any, you know, anyproperty on the market and it's
getting full asking price orover multiple offers, cash no
(24:28):
contingencies, all those things.
For the most part, that's kindof gone by the wayside.
And so as property continues,you know, to become harder to
sell, and and that, you know,that that's a that's an influx,
right?
You know, Fed just dropped theinterest rates by 25 basis
points.
Um as they continue to do so,that will help the market.
(24:50):
But right now, like I'm gettingyou know more traction than I
was.
COVID was harder because therewas just more marketing
happening.
You know, everyone everyone wastrying to get a property because
if you could find something tosell, you were almost guaranteed
to make money on it.
Those are the you know, theglory days, good old days.
Those are gone right now becauseyou know, sellers are harder to
(25:12):
find.
You have to be more intentional.
Your underwriting has to bebetter, you have to be more
stringent on you know the offersthat you're making.
And so I think it's moretactical ways that you just need
to run your business with thecurrent market in mind.
Um, yeah, I don't think that youknow, probate inheritance, like
it's forever going to be aproblem.
There's always gonna beopportunities there.
(25:34):
It's just can you get in frontof those people in a consistent
way and kind of have thosemeaningful conversations that
will lead to opportunities?
SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
Yes, great.
That's your that's great advice.
I I I go to the back of theCOVID, yeah.
The COVID days, like there'llnever be a time period in our
lifetime ever like that.
Because, like you said,basically I tell people when a
house, whatever type of realestate was for sale, you was you
was getting the asking price, alot of them no contingencies,
(26:03):
over overbidding like crazy.
Like that was the craziest timeperiod.
Like I tell people, COVIDchanged the world, especially
how we do things now.
It changed everything aboutlife.
Yeah, it was one for thearchives right there.
SPEAKER_00 (26:18):
Really?
Yeah, it was so weird.
Like I had a um right beforeCOVID set in.
So, you know, like there wasthis, you know, kind of period
is so COVID was everyone wasafraid, and like there was a
giant dropout of contracts.
The stock market went downbefore everything shot back up.
So I had a property undercontract right before, you know,
(26:40):
when everyone was freaking out,they didn't know what to do.
And uh, you know, it was a12-unit property that I still
own now.
And uh I had I had aridiculously good contract on
this.
I, you know, I think it wasyeah, uh$315,000 for a 12-unit
that was making 10 10k gross amonth.
So like, you know, a 3x deal,you know, 3% deal uh on uh so on
(27:05):
paper, it this was uh home run,slam dunk.
And uh man, I I wiggled back andforth.
I was like, should I drop thiscontract?
Is the world gonna end?
Like, you know, and I I decidedto stick with my guns.
I bought the property, and thenyou know, four months later, it
appraised it, you know, I thinkit was$500,000 over what I
bought it for, just because ofthe market conditions and and
(27:28):
the timing.
It's like it's so it's so weird.
Those moments where you're like,everyone else is running for you
know the hills, and like, man,do I do I stick with it?
Do I do I kind of push in and gowith what you know my gut's
telling me, or do I followeveryone else?
Those are those are toughinvesting times, and and COVID
provided a few really crazyones.
(27:49):
And uh, you know, I there'sstill more stuff on the horizon,
but COVID was that was unique.
SPEAKER_01 (27:54):
Yeah, it definitely was.
Oh, I I have so many storiesabout covet.
Like, I mean, I was sellinghomes like crazy, and I remember
even when uh even when when itjust happened, like the
procedures of uh do you have thePPE on that's needed, you got to
sign the disclosure, andeverything, like it was, and
(28:15):
then as they say, like when it'swhen it's really stressful, when
time periods are really rough,that's when you see the
investors because they knowexactly what time period is.
They're like, okay, if it's justgoing around, then I I need to
invest.
Yeah, it's like a gold mine forthem right there.
SPEAKER_00 (28:33):
Exactly.
Yeah, and that it's easy to saythat, but it's hard to do.
Um, yes, you're right.
Because we're you know, at theend of the day, you know, we're
kind of a herd.
We want to move together, wewant to follow everyone else.
And exactly, yeah, to turn yourback and be like, no, I think I
think this is right, yeah, andbe the sole, you know, person
out there kind of bidden.
(28:53):
That yeah, that's it's a it's achallenging thing to kind of
bear.
Yes, it is.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:00):
Okay, so what if you started today, what would you
how would you begin building abusiness around inheritance
leads if you had started startedjust today?
SPEAKER_00 (29:12):
Yeah, I guess it depends.
You know, like I was kind ofsaying earlier, it's it's a
harder niche for folks who arejust literally beginning, right?
Um, so much of it it has to dowith conversational tone.
Like you you need to be able tobe able to consistently connect
with sellers on a personallevel.
So your rapport building needsto be you know better than
(29:33):
average.
Your empathy skills need to bepretty sharp.
Your listening skills, you likeyou, you know, you're not
sitting there watching afootball game and taking this
call at the same time.
Like you need to be tuned intothis person, you know, really
focusing on you know, trying tounderstand what it is that's
happening for them.
But so you know, let's sayyou've got all that, and you're
like, oh no, Mike, that's that'sgreat.
(29:54):
I get I check all those boxes.
Then I would say, like, youknow, you could you could gather
the data yourself, you know, youcould look at OBITs, you could
work probates, you could kind ofgo down that road and uh you
know build that data.
But if you have you know money,you're already successful,
you're doing it, you're likeyou're you're willing to invest
some capital in it, you couldwork with us and we would
(30:17):
basically say, hey, where do youwant to be?
What's your market?
Um, so part of our company andhow we sell our data is we only
sell uh each county three times.
So there's three seats in anygiven county in the US.
And once it's sold out, we putyou on a waiting list, and
you're welcome to get that datawhen it becomes available and
you're first in line.
(30:37):
But um, so you know, you get youget a seat, you get that data,
and you know, basically uh, youknow, I run through a whole
SVOP.
I have a training where Ionboard people, help people
understand how and what to do,the important things to look
for.
Um, and and one of the keydefining factors is that not all
leads are created equal.
And I'm I'm sure you recognizethis and see this.
(30:59):
And you know, something for mein my own business is that
there's this niche in our data,and uh you know it's it's when
someone basically passes away,but they own additional
properties.
So, you know, let's say alandlord uh He passes away or
his wife passes away.
Um that point is kind ofcritical.
(31:20):
It's like, you know, usuallythere's some kind of revelation
of like, my life's too short.
It's time to move on.
Uh, they're the kind of thesetired landlords.
And so they've got these 10properties.
They it's kind of it's aquasi-business, they own them
free and clear.
Those are my favorite leads.
I market to those especiallyhard.
I push into those more becauseyou know, last year when I
(31:41):
looked at my net profit, 60% ofmy profit came from those people
who owned additional properties.
The 40% came from the other.
Um, but so you know, knowing howto target the right people,
knowing how to have thoseconversations, um, you know,
basically coming up with acadence of direct mail, which,
(32:02):
you know, again, I can help andshow people.
And then, you know, havingsomeone who's kind of doing some
of that work for you so you canfocus on where the money is.
And that really is theconversations.
Are you a goodconversationalist?
Can you connect with thesepeople?
Can you make them like you?
Can, you know, if you can kindof build that tension where,
like, you can tell, like um, youget someone on the phone and you
(32:26):
know, they're hesitant, they'renot interested, they're not, and
then you say something, youknow, something to overcome like
this person's trying to damnyou, or they're not trustworthy
to you know, their tone changes.
You can hear they leaning inrather than pulling away.
If you can do that on theregular, like the inheritance
list is a good place for you tobe.
SPEAKER_01 (32:47):
That's great.
That's great.
Well, and I just uh I went onyour website, it's definitely
very, very self-explanatory.
It's easy for people tounderstand.
Um, usleadlist.com.
And what other ways, Micah, canuh people get in touch with you?
SPEAKER_00 (33:03):
You know, email's good.
Um we can drop it in the shownotes, but you know, Micah at
USleadlist.com.
Um, I don't check everything.
My assistant helps me with that.
So uh happy to chat with folksthere.
Our website's great.
If you fill out a form, youknow, the quote, basically we're
gonna ask you, you know, whatareas you're interested in.
Uh, it'll have you create anaccount and then you know either
(33:25):
give us a call or or set a uh abook meeting with one of our
salespeople.
That's great.
Um, yeah, those are probably thetwo best channels or on social
media too.
Uh Facebook is really all I usepersonally.
Uh so it's just Micah Nichols,my name.
Um, and you should find me.
SPEAKER_01 (33:43):
Okay.
I'll put that all in the shownotes for all the listeners out
there.
Um, yes, everybody, this isMicah Nichols, uh, the owner of
US Lead List.
Uh I love this podcast.
I did there's a lot of things Idid not know about the uh about
the the propate inheritance partat all, but now um now I'm aware
(34:03):
now.
I'm aware.
SPEAKER_00 (34:04):
Well, thank you, Micah.
Go ahead.
Oh, I was gonna say thanks somuch for having me, man.
Pleasurable uh, you know, kindof getting to hunker down and
and talk about the subject.
I'm passionate about it.
I'm passionate about realestate, and I appreciate you
taking the time.
SPEAKER_01 (34:18):
Oh, no problem, no problem.
I I think we might need to dothis again for the listeners out
there because there's you have alot of great information, a lot
of stuff that that opened up mymind to a lot of doors when it
comes to this.
Absolutely.
More than happy to.
Yes.
All right, then, world, this isit for the Professors Real
Estate Investing Podcast.
Like, subscribe, follow, and umeverybody have God bless.
(34:42):
Micah, thank you so much for uhbeing on the show today.
SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (34:46):
All right.
Welcome everybody to Professors Real Estate Investing
Podcast.
I'm with Michael Nichols.
How are you doing, Micah?
Doing great.
Thanks for having me.
No problem, no problem.
Let's uh say a little bit, talkabout a little bit about Micah
right here.
He owns the U.S.
lead list where they generateconstant uh flow for pre-probate
inheritance search leads andresidential, land and commercial
(01:01):
leads.
So, Micah, we're getting intothis.
Uh what attracted you in yourreal estate investing journey
over a decade ago?
SPEAKER_00 (01:12):
I mean, you know, I think it comes down to control
uh my kind of financial destiny.
And then, you know, just I thinkaside from that, I just always
liked real estate.
You know, didn't really matter,lands, houses, historical, new,
just all the things.
Um, you know, as cliche as itis, uh Robert Kiyosaki's book
(01:35):
really kind of seeded the wholething.
Um, but yeah, that's kind ofwhat drew me in.
And then yeah, I bought my firstproperty 10 years ago, a little
uh fourplex for 52,000 bucks,and I was cash flowing 800 bucks
a month, and I was hooked fromthen on.
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
Okay.
Nice.
And then so you're the owner,the proud owner of the U.S.
lead list.
Uh for those who aren't are newto the concept, what exactly is
pre-probate inheritance leadsand why is it valuable in our
especially in our time today?
SPEAKER_00 (02:10):
Yeah, well, uh, let me answer for why it's valuable
in our time frame.
So, you know, baby boomers areat a place where like they're
kind of phasing out.
You know, it's like, and anddeath inevitably is this
exchange from one generation tothe next.
And that is uh, you know, uh, beit uh awkward, complicated, and
(02:31):
sad, uh, that is an inevitableforce that everyone has to deal
with in one way, shape, or form.
And so why it's pertinent toreal estate, real estate
professionals, um, is becauseyou know, at that transfer
point, there's this kind ofdistribution of assets that
happens and it's forced.
It's not, you know, it's notthis something that like people
(02:52):
really kind of choose.
It like it happens, and uh youcan kind of insert yourself into
you know the the I guess thesellers' minds at the right time
with the right messaging togenerate more lead flow for your
business.
SPEAKER_01 (03:07):
Okay.
Nice.
Yeah, because uh I knew a lotabout not a whole lot, but I
knew something about the probateinheritance and I know it can be
definitely vital.
I know it's a um somethingthat's not like generally in the
spotlight much when it comes toreal estate investing.
And um another question I wasgonna ask you about is so how
(03:28):
does the US lead list uh findand verify these type of leads?
SPEAKER_00 (03:33):
Sure, yeah.
So we bring in data from sevenseparate channels, and and that
those seven channels, they'reall indicators of when someone
passes away.
So, you know, be it obituary ordeath notices or government
data, we we have a bunch ofdifferent places where we intake
that data um and then we verifythat you know that if someone
(03:55):
passed away, you know, the nextstep is do they own real estate?
And so we kind of merge thosetwo things together.
We're not basing it off ofprobate, it's before probate.
And that's you know, our mainproduct is called inheritance
because uh it's you know,there's there's a few categories
that don't ever go throughprobate.
So, you know, if I'm talkingabout the lists, there's kind of
(04:15):
you know four main groups.
You know, it's pre-probate,that's when something actually
does need to go through probateor should, doesn't always, and
then surviving spouses andtrusts, and then the last is
interfamily transfers before thedeath.
And so we're building that on aum you know monthly basis uh at
(04:35):
a national scale.
So we're generating an entirelist every month based on all
that input data that we'rereceiving.
And so, you know, we've got uhwe spend a lot of money on data
to kind of line up all thesepoints um and uh and give our
customers you know the best, youknow, most relevant information
on this specific niche.
SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
Okay.
Okay.
And then I had to add it onquestion since you know it's
2025 and the age of AI is justgoing bananas every single day.
How does how does AI help youout with that too?
SPEAKER_00 (05:10):
Well, I mean, we certainly uh insert uh AI for
data management.
You know, so one of the thingsthat you know folks who aren't
in the data industry may notknow, but an inherent challenge
is kind of merging two separatedata sets together.
Um, you know, the discrepanciesbetween the two uh is kind of a
(05:32):
headache.
So if you've ever, you know,let's say gone to the county and
you're looking for taxdelinquent data and they have it
denoted or in in columns thatdon't match up with your data,
it can be a huge pain in thebutt to kind of line all that
information up to you know,maybe get it skip traced so you
can call them or you know,whatever that may be.
(05:54):
So for us, we we internally useuh AI a lot to kind of map that
data, organize it properly, andkeep it going.
But I mean, you know, it's it'sfunny, it's like you know, AI is
evolving way, way faster than umI think you know my little brain
can comprehend.
And so, you know, that said,like there's always iteration
(06:17):
jumps.
You know, it's like you know,right now uh, you know, we're
we're using AI kind of you know,almost agents, uh, to you know
do a lot of the legwork back andforth between um you know
sellers and the acquisition, andthey're kind of building up uh
you know that relationship andthen ultimately pushing it to a
real person once it gets to a uhyou know a conversational point
(06:41):
when they're like, hey, I'mready to do something, I'm ready
to set an appointment, whateverit may be.
So, you know, the yeah, AI, uhit's it's really uh the you know
the bottleneck is our creativityto figure out ways to use it.
Uh so yeah, it's it's hard toenumerate on all the possible
scenarios.
SPEAKER_01 (06:59):
Scenarios, exactly, especially like I said nowadays,
because trust me, like yourbrain, my brain, I mean, there's
just so much information andit's it's useful, especially
when it comes to investing inall different facets of uh the
niche.
Another thing I would a questionI want to ask you, uh when it
comes to this, what are some ofthe biggest misconceptions for
(07:21):
investors who've been workingwith inheritance uh with like
inheritance sellers?
SPEAKER_00 (07:27):
Yeah, I mean, so one of the things that I uh try and
have people understand is like,you know, usually folks who are
just starting out who you knowhaven't really you know cut
their teeth yet on uh kind ofdirect to seller marketing,
usually probate isn't the bestplace to start.
Um it's nuanced, there's a lotof caveats that kind of come up
(07:51):
that are special to the list.
And so if uh if you handle itwrong, if you if you approach it
the from the wrong direction,you end up kind of breaking your
opportunity before you get achance to buy the property.
Um, or you know, list theproperty, whatever it may be.
Like we deal with a good amountof realtors as well.
But um yeah, I mean, like forme, like it's all how I coach my
(08:14):
clients, how I talk to peopleabout it, it's all about
delicacy and meeting that personwhere they're at.
Because you know, if you'remarketing to someone and they
just lost something that'sirreplaceable, it's gone.
Yes.
Um you can't possibly understandall of what's happening for
them, right?
And and the only way that youget a window into their world,
(08:37):
into what they're feeling, intowhat's happening for them is by
being a good active listener,asking open-ended questions, and
you know, basically getting thisperson to know, like, and trust
you, um, you know, kind of onthat outset call, that discovery
call, when you're when you'reyou know, trying to figure out
like if you have a purpose withthis person, can you solve their
(08:58):
all their problems?
And uh, and so yeah, it's it'sit's funny, like, you know,
these calls are slower, it's notlike uh mass texting or um you
know you you just sending outyou know 10,000 postcards saying
I want to buy your house cash orsomething like that.
Um that approach does work, butit's a numbers team.
(09:18):
Um I kind of come at it from adifferent angle.
You know, I do a good amount ofdirect mail, we do cold calling
to market to the list.
And, you know, on my firstletter, like I don't even say I
want to buy the property, I justsay, hey, I have a question
about your property.
Um and so it drives curiosity.
They reach out and then I I kindof you know begin that
conversation with a question,even in the letter.
(09:41):
Uh, and so I'm just trying toopen up their book, try and
understand what's happening forthem, see if I can get their
timeline, understand what theirpain points are, because you
know, really there's like twobig things that are happening
for these people.
They're dealing with anoverwhelming amount of emotions,
and then on top of that, they'redealing with logistics that
they've likely never had to gothrough, or maybe once or twice
(10:03):
ever in their life.
And so you're combining twopretty significant challenges at
once, and so you kind of have tohelp them wade through it
sometimes.
You you're you end up being anactive, you know, sometimes
almost like a um a counselor ina way, to like, you know, help
them see what can happen if itcan work out.
(10:24):
You know, most of the time,especially with spouses, the
most common response I get is Ijust don't know what to do.
You know, they're they're justthey're just shell-shocked.
Um, and that's fine.
You know, it's like they don'tknow what to do, they're being
honest.
It's like, okay, great.
You know, well, I'm here, youknow, I I basically, you know, I
guess work to deliver value andshow up where you can.
(10:47):
Um, because you know, peopleremember when you lend a helpful
hand.
Like they do.
And and for me, like that's kindof you know, all of again, how I
coach.
I, you know, I use this data.
I run a local investing companyuh in the kind of Madison,
Wisconsin greater uhmetropolitan area.
And so, you know, I wear twohats.
(11:07):
I I run US lead list, but I alsoinvest uh full-time myself.
And so I'm active, I'm workingthese, I'm developing
strategies, I'm always trying tolearn more, I'm trying to make
it better, trying to get ahigher ROI on on you know what
I'm doing in my marketing to bemore relevant.
And this is you know, kind ofthat servant heart, you know,
showing up and helping peoplehas been the best way that I've
(11:29):
found one, to feel good aboutmyself at the end of the day,
you know, when I you know put myhead on my pillow, I sleep well
at night.
And then two, it it just makesends up making me more money.
You know, people like workingwith people who they trust, who
they're confident in whatthey're saying.
And uh yeah, that thatdistinction, it's it's small,
(11:49):
um, but it's it makes all thedifference for the the message
that you're delivering for uh tothat person in that you know
kind of crazy circumstancethey're in.
SPEAKER_01 (11:59):
You you got great points right there.
Uh, because I was gonna ask likewhat the process is, but you
actually explained it.
Being compassionate with thatperson, listening to that
person, listen listening is thekey.
I always tell people, listen towhat they're going through.
The time period that they'regoing through right there, it's
it's devastating.
I mean, they and like you say,they they don't know what to do.
(12:20):
But when somebody lends out ahelping hand, and it's and I
love the way that you approachit because the way you approach
it and you're sensitive to theirneeds, it goes a long way.
And people remember that.
That's that that's that humankindness that it it can never be
replaced because they'll alwaysremember like I could trust this
person because in my time ofneed, he helped me.
(12:40):
So I loved I love the way youwent about going, you go about
doing that on a regular basis.
And then the next question I hadto ask, because this is key also
with the time period we are.
Um how important do you think,as you elaborate a little bit on
it, about the direct mail, coldcalling?
Um, how important that's is thatstill nowadays?
(13:01):
Because I I'll I'll get you alittle story where I was helping
out a client, and uh there's alot of for pre-foreclosed homes
and foreclosed homes here in thestate of California.
And it was down in OrangeCounty, Southern California, and
uh I told the client how to goabout, they wanted to write a
(13:21):
letter in in a compassionateway, so I helped them go about
doing it, but there was noresponse.
But uh how how do you view a lotof like the direct mailing, the
cold calling, how how effectiveis is it still nowadays?
SPEAKER_00 (13:38):
I mean, from what I've seen, you know, like cold
calling uh is a grind.
Direct mail is expensive, youknow uh you know buying media,
you know, doing you know PPC,SEO, um, you know, social media
(13:59):
marketing.
Every every one of those tacticshas its upside and its downside.
And uh what I feel like, youknow, personally in my own my
own businesses, I I mostly docold calling and I mostly do
direct mail.
I don't do a lot on the digitalside.
And you know, that that ischanging, like we're
incorporating more as we keep onscaling.
(14:20):
But you know, personally, youknow, if you're doing direct
mail right, if you'reconnecting, like there you will
get traction.
But it is like anything else,right?
It's like, you know, if you lookon your um, you know, your your
PPC campaign, you got you knowhow many, how many views you
got, you got how many clicks yougot, you got how many form fills
(14:41):
you got.
And it's the same thing withdirect mail, it's a numbers
game.
Like, you know, people just needto scale that operation, you
know.
So on a monthly basis, you know,depending, we're sending, you
know, probably I would guesslike three, four thousand
letters a month.
Um, and you know, so like thatworks.
(15:02):
We just you know closed on onelast week from that.
Uh, I got you know a couple inthe funnel that I should be
contracts, you know, before theend of the week.
Like it absolutely still workson the direct mail side.
Cold call, same thing.
You know, it's a numbers game.
Uh, I don't I don't cold callmyself.
I outsource that.
I am not patient enough to sitthere and dial or you know, the
(15:23):
headset on like that's not mygame.
I don't have time for that.
But you find a good partner uhto outsource that too.
And you know, basically you'rejust getting hand raisers.
Hey, yeah, I want to sell.
And you know, we just got acontract on a three unit we
brought uh purchase.
Let's see, in downtown Madison,you know, we're we're selling,
we bought it at 600.
We're uh you know have anaccepted offer at 725.
(15:46):
So that's like that'll be a goodlittle deal, uh, all said and
done.
Um, so you know, to me, theyboth still work.
Uh that each has their up anddownside.
I like cold calling because it'sscalable.
You can have 10 dialers workingyour market, you can have people
calling, you can have themgetting traction while you're
sleeping.
That to me is beautiful.
(16:07):
Uh, same thing with direct mail.
You know, the downside is thatit's out on the outset, it's
more expensive.
Costs a lot of money to senddirect mail.
You know, first class stamps,what, 78 cents right now?
Yes.
But the beauty of direct mail isthat it's physical.
It's you know, people can deletea voicemail, they can, they can,
you know, uh delete a text, theycan uh you know, delete your
(16:27):
your uh email when they send itto you, but uh letter, you know,
like I've had clients or notclients, but I've had um sellers
call me and they're like, youknow, my mom had your letter
pinned on her refrigerator andit's been sitting here, and she
so first I I mailed because thehusband passed away, and then
the the mother passed away.
(16:48):
And so then the daughter calledme, you know, years later.
Um, and you know, we ended uptransacting from that.
And so I like the physicality ofdirect mail if your messaging is
right, if you're if you're beingconsistent in it, it is a
physical presence that you knowcannot really be duplicated on
the you know the digital uhlandscape.
SPEAKER_01 (17:11):
That that's beat me too.
I I like the the physical in inthe hand because like you said,
you can delete uh you can deletean email, you can delete a text,
but when it has the physicalpresence in your hand, that
that's a that's a whole notherlevel right there in itself.
Yeah, and that's the old schoolway of doing things, like
mailing it out, like yeah, didyou get it?
Yes, I received it.
SPEAKER_00 (17:30):
Well, and and you know, kind of back to AI and
what you're talking about, likeAI is amazing, right?
Uh but at the end of the day,the people who currently control
AI, and who knows if it'll getout of control, but we're all
humans.
And at the end of you know, theday everything is a
human-to-human experience,right?
And you know, the people who arecrushing it figured out the best
(17:52):
way to kind of incorporate waysto automate parts of that, and
then they insert the human atits most critical point.
And you know, that person showsup and they are you know rock
steady, they're closer, they'redoing whatever they can.
They're you know, they show uptrying to relate to that other
human on the other side.
And if you can do that well atscale, you're gonna win.
(18:14):
Um, I and I think that's thebest way right now to
incorporate AI and automationand all of those things.
Um it's not the only way, but Iyou know, for me again, like
that feels good in you know, mymy own little heart of how to
conduct business that you knowhelps me sleep at night.
SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
Great, great.
Thank you for that advice rightthere.
And then the flip side with withyour real estate journey and
everything you've done, I wantto ask what's a mistake or a
deal gone wrong that taught youa valuable lesson.
SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
Yeah, I just closed on one.
So I bought this place.
It was it was gonna be a quickflip.
Um and three weeks after webought it, the basement flooded.
And you know, we had you know,we had insurance, but it was a
sub pump failure.
Insurance wouldn't cover it.
So you know, we we had to shellout uh you know, some money
(19:08):
fixed all that.
It wasn't a big deal.
We we still would have beenprofitable uh had that been the
only thing that happened.
Um so you know, then we got itunder contract.
We, you know, uh we were justabout to close.
We are and the sellers weredoing their final walkthrough,
and a plastic piece on thetoilet on the second floor
(19:31):
ruptured, and water wascascading down in this house for
a week and a half, two weeks,something like that.
Goodness.
And so, you know, everything wasset to go.
We were gonna close, we were alldone.
It w it was good.
We were it was gravy, we'regonna make money, and then this
happened, and so we're like, youknow, pardon, pardon you know,
(19:52):
pardon my verbiage, but oh shit,like right.
This is crazy.
Um so we're like, all right,well, we canceled the contract,
you know, we we did all thelogistics around that, and we
went to uh file an insuranceclaim.
And one of my partners uh boughtterm insurance for this
property.
So we had a specific amount oftime, and our term expired four
(20:17):
days before this happened.
And so we're sitting on thisproperty, we didn't have
insurance on it, it flooded,there was no way to you know
make it work.
We weren't gonna you know doinsurance fraud, we weren't
playing that game.
And so we just closed on it, andyou know, at the at the end of
that whole story, we ended uplosing um it was 110K on that
(20:40):
one.
So a big kick in the teeth,right?
It's like and and honestly,first deal I've ever lost money
on in real estate.
I've had a pretty good trackrecord thus far.
Uh so you know the the littlelogistical details matter and
put them in someone's hands,either you know, your own or
someone who you can trust that'sgonna make sure that they happen
(21:02):
when they need to happen.
SPEAKER_01 (21:03):
Yes.
Oh wow.
You you definitely that was akick in the teeth.
I always talk about uh withwater.
Water is one of those thingswhere I used to work for
appliance business years ago,and uh there were guys who would
hook up like the back of thewater line for you know to get
water and ice in yourrefrigerator.
Oh, Tony, it's just leaking alittle bit.
I say, no, I don't want itleaking at all because that
(21:26):
little drop right there, it'sgonna cost thousands beyond
thousands of dollars, and I'mnot gonna have the owner on my
tail about because you didn'tcheck it just right.
But yeah, water is one of thosethings where you have to make
sure everything is secure, mostdefinitely.
SPEAKER_00 (21:41):
Well, I feel that.
I wish I would have uh I wish Iwould I would have heard you say
that uh you know a couple monthsuh a couple months ago out of
the news.
Um yeah, that was a rough one.
Otherwise, you know, I I think Ithink it's like any business.
Um, you know, there's risks ineverything that we do.
Um, you know, the way that youposition and think about you
(22:04):
know how you're doing realestate.
Um, you know, for me, the themost helpful bit of advice I got
is like I always make money whenI buy the property.
I'm not hoping something greatwill happen.
I'm not hoping that you know thedominoes will fall my way.
I I know in one way, shape, orform that I'm gonna make money
on this transaction by one of mymultiple exits that I have that
(22:26):
I know that I can take tomonetize the property.
And that's kept me pretty safeso far, except for that flooded
(23:10):
house twice.
SPEAKER_01 (23:11):
But but but that that was a that was a great
lesson to learn, you know.
It was a one-shot deal.
You're never gonna happen to dothat again.
SPEAKER_00 (23:17):
Absolutely, never, never again.
Yep, yeah.
You you feel that pain and uhand the loss, and yeah, that's
uh it reminds you frequently uhand instills instills the
memory.
SPEAKER_01 (23:29):
Yes, it does.
Yes, it does.
And then another question Iwould ask, what marker change do
you what market trends do yousee right now that make
inheritance or probate leadsespecially especially timely now
in our period of time?
SPEAKER_00 (23:45):
I mean, I don't I don't think that it's changed
per se.
I think they're always timely.
You know, it's a it's aconsistent, it's it's evergreen,
it's something that's that'salways going to be around while
there's while there's humansaround.
Um but I think there's some youknow macroeconomics that play
into it to a degree.
(24:06):
You know, right now it's a toughtime in the market.
Interest rates are still high.
There's you know way moresellers than buyers, you know,
kind of historical highs on thatside.
And so, you know, kind of goneare the COVID days where you
know you put any, you know, anyproperty on the market and it's
getting full asking price orover multiple offers, cash no
(24:28):
contingencies, all those things.
For the most part, that's kindof gone by the wayside.
And so as property continues,you know, to become harder to
sell, and and that, you know,that that's a that's an influx,
right?
You know, Fed just dropped theinterest rates by 25 basis
points.
Um as they continue to do so,that will help the market.
(24:50):
But right now, like I'm gettingyou know more traction than I
was.
COVID was harder because therewas just more marketing
happening.
You know, everyone everyone wastrying to get a property because
if you could find something tosell, you were almost guaranteed
to make money on it.
Those are the you know, theglory days, good old days.
Those are gone right now becauseyou know, sellers are harder to
(25:12):
find.
You have to be more intentional.
Your underwriting has to bebetter, you have to be more
stringent on you know the offersthat you're making.
And so I think it's moretactical ways that you just need
to run your business with thecurrent market in mind.
Um, yeah, I don't think that youknow, probate inheritance, like
it's forever going to be aproblem.
There's always gonna beopportunities there.
(25:34):
It's just can you get in frontof those people in a consistent
way and kind of have thosemeaningful conversations that
will lead to opportunities?
SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
Yes, great.
That's your that's great advice.
I I I go to the back of theCOVID, yeah.
The COVID days, like there'llnever be a time period in our
lifetime ever like that.
Because, like you said,basically I tell people when a
house, whatever type of realestate was for sale, you was you
was getting the asking price, alot of them no contingencies,
(26:03):
over overbidding like crazy.
Like that was the craziest timeperiod.
Like I tell people, COVIDchanged the world, especially
how we do things now.
It changed everything aboutlife.
Yeah, it was one for thearchives right there.
SPEAKER_00 (26:18):
Really?
Yeah, it was so weird.
Like I had a um right beforeCOVID set in.
So, you know, like there wasthis, you know, kind of period
is so COVID was everyone wasafraid, and like there was a
giant dropout of contracts.
The stock market went downbefore everything shot back up.
So I had a property undercontract right before, you know,
(26:40):
when everyone was freaking out,they didn't know what to do.
And uh, you know, it was a12-unit property that I still
own now.
And uh I had I had aridiculously good contract on
this.
I, you know, I think it wasyeah, uh$315,000 for a 12-unit
that was making 10 10k gross amonth.
So like, you know, a 3x deal,you know, 3% deal uh on uh so on
(27:05):
paper, it this was uh home run,slam dunk.
And uh man, I I wiggled back andforth.
I was like, should I drop thiscontract?
Is the world gonna end?
Like, you know, and I I decidedto stick with my guns.
I bought the property, and thenyou know, four months later, it
appraised it, you know, I thinkit was$500,000 over what I
bought it for, just because ofthe market conditions and and
(27:28):
the timing.
It's like it's so it's so weird.
Those moments where you're like,everyone else is running for you
know the hills, and like, man,do I do I stick with it?
Do I do I kind of push in and gowith what you know my gut's
telling me, or do I followeveryone else?
Those are those are toughinvesting times, and and COVID
provided a few really crazyones.
(27:49):
And uh, you know, I there'sstill more stuff on the horizon,
but COVID was that was unique.
SPEAKER_01 (27:54):
Yeah, it definitely was.
Oh, I I have so many storiesabout covet.
Like, I mean, I was sellinghomes like crazy, and I remember
even when uh even when when itjust happened, like the
procedures of uh do you have thePPE on that's needed, you got to
sign the disclosure, andeverything, like it was, and
(28:15):
then as they say, like when it'swhen it's really stressful, when
time periods are really rough,that's when you see the
investors because they knowexactly what time period is.
They're like, okay, if it's justgoing around, then I I need to
invest.
Yeah, it's like a gold mine forthem right there.
SPEAKER_00 (28:33):
Exactly.
Yeah, and that it's easy to saythat, but it's hard to do.
Um, yes, you're right.
Because we're you know, at theend of the day, you know, we're
kind of a herd.
We want to move together, wewant to follow everyone else.
And exactly, yeah, to turn yourback and be like, no, I think I
think this is right, yeah, andbe the sole, you know, person
out there kind of bidden.
(28:53):
That yeah, that's it's a it's achallenging thing to kind of
bear.
Yes, it is.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:00):
Okay, so what if you started today, what would you
how would you begin building abusiness around inheritance
leads if you had started startedjust today?
SPEAKER_00 (29:12):
Yeah, I guess it depends.
You know, like I was kind ofsaying earlier, it's it's a
harder niche for folks who arejust literally beginning, right?
Um, so much of it it has to dowith conversational tone.
Like you you need to be able tobe able to consistently connect
with sellers on a personallevel.
So your rapport building needsto be you know better than
(29:33):
average.
Your empathy skills need to bepretty sharp.
Your listening skills, you likeyou, you know, you're not
sitting there watching afootball game and taking this
call at the same time.
Like you need to be tuned intothis person, you know, really
focusing on you know, trying tounderstand what it is that's
happening for them.
But so you know, let's sayyou've got all that, and you're
like, oh no, Mike, that's that'sgreat.
(29:54):
I get I check all those boxes.
Then I would say, like, youknow, you could you could gather
the data yourself, you know, youcould look at OBITs, you could
work probates, you could kind ofgo down that road and uh you
know build that data.
But if you have you know money,you're already successful,
you're doing it, you're likeyou're you're willing to invest
some capital in it, you couldwork with us and we would
(30:17):
basically say, hey, where do youwant to be?
What's your market?
Um, so part of our company andhow we sell our data is we only
sell uh each county three times.
So there's three seats in anygiven county in the US.
And once it's sold out, we putyou on a waiting list, and
you're welcome to get that datawhen it becomes available and
you're first in line.
(30:37):
But um, so you know, you get youget a seat, you get that data,
and you know, basically uh, youknow, I run through a whole
SVOP.
I have a training where Ionboard people, help people
understand how and what to do,the important things to look
for.
Um, and and one of the keydefining factors is that not all
leads are created equal.
And I'm I'm sure you recognizethis and see this.
(30:59):
And you know, something for mein my own business is that
there's this niche in our data,and uh you know it's it's when
someone basically passes away,but they own additional
properties.
So, you know, let's say alandlord uh He passes away or
his wife passes away.
Um that point is kind ofcritical.
(31:20):
It's like, you know, usuallythere's some kind of revelation
of like, my life's too short.
It's time to move on.
Uh, they're the kind of thesetired landlords.
And so they've got these 10properties.
They it's kind of it's aquasi-business, they own them
free and clear.
Those are my favorite leads.
I market to those especiallyhard.
I push into those more becauseyou know, last year when I
(31:41):
looked at my net profit, 60% ofmy profit came from those people
who owned additional properties.
The 40% came from the other.
Um, but so you know, knowing howto target the right people,
knowing how to have thoseconversations, um, you know,
basically coming up with acadence of direct mail, which,
(32:02):
you know, again, I can help andshow people.
And then, you know, havingsomeone who's kind of doing some
of that work for you so you canfocus on where the money is.
And that really is theconversations.
Are you a goodconversationalist?
Can you connect with thesepeople?
Can you make them like you?
Can, you know, if you can kindof build that tension where,
like, you can tell, like um, youget someone on the phone and you
(32:26):
know, they're hesitant, they'renot interested, they're not, and
then you say something, youknow, something to overcome like
this person's trying to damnyou, or they're not trustworthy
to you know, their tone changes.
You can hear they leaning inrather than pulling away.
If you can do that on theregular, like the inheritance
list is a good place for you tobe.
SPEAKER_01 (32:47):
That's great.
That's great.
Well, and I just uh I went onyour website, it's definitely
very, very self-explanatory.
It's easy for people tounderstand.
Um, usleadlist.com.
And what other ways, Micah, canuh people get in touch with you?
SPEAKER_00 (33:03):
You know, email's good.
Um we can drop it in the shownotes, but you know, Micah at
USleadlist.com.
Um, I don't check everything.
My assistant helps me with that.
So uh happy to chat with folksthere.
Our website's great.
If you fill out a form, youknow, the quote, basically we're
gonna ask you, you know, whatareas you're interested in.
Uh, it'll have you create anaccount and then you know either
(33:25):
give us a call or or set a uh abook meeting with one of our
salespeople.
That's great.
Um, yeah, those are probably thetwo best channels or on social
media too.
Uh Facebook is really all I usepersonally.
Uh so it's just Micah Nichols,my name.
Um, and you should find me.
SPEAKER_01 (33:43):
Okay.
I'll put that all in the shownotes for all the listeners out
there.
Um, yes, everybody, this isMicah Nichols, uh, the owner of
US Lead List.
Uh I love this podcast.
I did there's a lot of things Idid not know about the uh about
the the propate inheritance partat all, but now um now I'm aware
(34:03):
now.
I'm aware.
SPEAKER_00 (34:04):
Well, thank you, Micah.
Go ahead.
Oh, I was gonna say thanks somuch for having me, man.
Pleasurable uh, you know, kindof getting to hunker down and
and talk about the subject.
I'm passionate about it.
I'm passionate about realestate, and I appreciate you
taking the time.
SPEAKER_01 (34:18):
Oh, no problem, no problem.
I I think we might need to dothis again for the listeners out
there because there's you have alot of great information, a lot
of stuff that that opened up mymind to a lot of doors when it
comes to this.
Absolutely.
More than happy to.
Yes.
All right, then, world, this isit for the Professors Real
Estate Investing Podcast.
Like, subscribe, follow, and umeverybody have God bless.
(34:42):
Micah, thank you so much for uhbeing on the show today.
SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (34:46):
All right.
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