June 11, 2026 • 51 mins
From a cardboard box in a war zone to inspiring others around the world.
Episode 10 of The Resilience Files features the incredible story of Barton C. Williams—a Vietnam War adoptee who arrived in Australia through Operation Babylift and spent decades navigating questions about identity, belonging, and purpose.
Instead of letting life's uncertainties define him, Barton transformed them into fuel for growth, resilience, and service. Today, he helps others discover the strength they already have within themselves through storytelling, education, athletics, and advocacy.
His story is a powerful reminder that resilience isn't about avoiding hardship—it's about what you choose to do with it.
✨ Your past may shape you, but it does not limit you.
Tune in now and be inspired by a journey of courage, self-discovery, and unwavering resilience.
🎙️ Available now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and wherever you listen to podcasts.
#TheResilienceFiles #Resilience #OperationBabylift #AdoptionAwareness #OvercomingAdversity #MentalResilience #Inspiration #PersonalGrowth #Storytelling #PodcastLife #BartonCWilliams
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
When you feel like life has dealt you a hand of
unfair cards, instead of voting,you double down or you stuck in
the game.
You face battles.
You felt broken.
But hey, do us a favor.
Put your hand on your heart.
You feel that?
You're still here.
Welcome to the Resilience FilesUnlocked.
(00:23):
Where survival meetstransformation.
Welcome to the Resilience FilesUnlocked, where survival meets
transformation.
I'm your host, Carrie Bernan'sactress stuntwoman.
This space was created forhonest conversations about
survival, reinvention, healing,and the quiet strength it takes
to keep going when life doesn'tlook like what you imagined.
(00:46):
I am so excited for our guesttoday because his story is truly
impactful.
Some people are born intostories they know.
Others spend a lifetime learninghow to write their own.
Today's guest was born in thefinal days of the Vietnam War,
arrived in Australia throughOperation Baby Lift, and grew up
carrying questions that neverhad simple answers.
(01:06):
What he found instead was adeeper truth.
The resilience isn't aboutknowing where you came from,
it's about deciding who youbecome.
Before we get started, as wealways do in the resilience
files fashion, we like to readthe essay that our guest has
shared today.
So without further ado, we willdo that.
Our guest name is Bardin C.
(01:27):
Williams.
Hi, I'm Barden C.
Williams, a 52-year-old blokecoming to you from Chicago,
Illinois.
By now, you might be thinking,hang on, he doesn't sound
American.
Well, we haven't heard him yet.
We will hear him.
He does have an Australianaccent, for instance.
That's not English either.
Is he from New Zealand?
Or that other place next door?
To right, far jincom start.
(01:49):
I'm Australian.
But my beginning was a littledifferent from most Aussie kids.
I was born in Vietnam in 1975with the name Wing Van Gu in a
loving family who gave me acolorful childhood filled with
tough love, hard lessons, andyes, the kind of casual racism
that Australia, like manyplaces, has had to reckon with.
(02:09):
I don't share that for pity.
I share it because it built myresilience and my curiosity
about identity and belonging.
Growing up and even now, I wasconstantly asked, where are you
from?
What's your medical history?
What are you?
Those questions stayed with mefor decades.
Eventually they became the seedfor my children's book.
But what are you?
A story that helps kidsunderstand what it feels like to
(02:32):
look different, to feeldifferent, and to discover what
love, not appearance, is whattruly defines a family.
Writing that book helped me givemeaning to questions that once
made me feel small.
One of the greatest gifts myadoption journey gave me was an
understanding of physical andemotional resilience.
At eight years old, I wasbattling waves as a junior
nipper, surf lifesaver onAustralian beaches.
(02:54):
Years later, the same kid wouldbe I swimming in Lake Michigan
in the middle of winter wearingnothing but a pair of Speedos.
Yes, still questioning my lifechoices.
Somewhere along the way, Irealized something important.
When you train the body tohandle discomfort, you train the
mind to handle life.
Today, I blend athleticchallenges, education, and
storytelling to help peoplereconnect with their bodies,
(03:16):
strengthen their mentalresilience, and build confidence
in who they are.
Whether I'm swimming through icywater, performing on screen,
writing books, or speaking toyoung people, my mission is
always the same to help peoplediscover that they are stronger,
safer, and more capable thanthey think.
Both mind and body.
(03:37):
Arden C.
Williams, 2026.
Ow, I have chills all over mybody.
Before we get started, we alwayslike to ask people, how are you
feeling today?
How are you doing?
SPEAKER_02 (03:46):
I'm doing great.
I look out the window here inChicago and the summer's shining
and it looks warm.
And that to me, having grown upin Australia, just feels
awesome.
It looks like a 35-degree or ahundred degree Fahrenheit day as
I look out the window.
So the sunshine makes me smile.
So I'm pretty happy.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
I'm so happy to hear that.
That's beautiful.
Before we talk about who youbecome, I want to start at the
very beginning because so muchof resilience seems to be rooted
in questions that started beforeyou even had language for them.
First question I would like toask you is what's the earliest
memory you have of realizingyour story was different from
other kids?
SPEAKER_02 (04:23):
Right.
Great question.
I was adopted at the age ofso-called three years of age.
And what's really interesting isas an adult, I'm only learning
more about my adoption.
The earliest I can remember is Iremember my mother, mother who
just recently or the last twoyears has passed, who I was
(04:44):
super close to.
She took this photo of mybrother, my adoptive brother and
myself, and I'm holding theadoption papers.
And I was at least four years ofage.
And I remember mum giving givingme that photo when I was
younger.
I'm sure she didn't give it tome when when like have Polaroids
(05:04):
in the 70s, but I remember herhanding it to me.
So to answer that question, I'dhave to say it was it'd be four
or five years of age that Irecall, hey, I'm standing next
to my brother, mum's taking aphoto.
This is pretty special, and thispiece of paper says that I
belong to their family.
Did I process it maybe notcorrectly?
(05:27):
Probably you know, that'sprobably the the situation is
that I knew it was something todo with this family, and then I
belonged to that family, and Iknew that I I was different.
I mean, my brother had brownhair, was quite tall compared to
me.
My parents were blue-eyed andbrat brown hair, different
shaped eyes, different colouredskin.
(05:48):
So of course, f uh from a youngage, I would have to say maybe
four or five, as I recognizedhow I was different to the rest
of the family.
But I belonged to them.
SPEAKER_00 (05:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
Wow.
When did you um so at thatmoment, is that when you kind of
first was introduced to the thenotion of being adopted through
Operation Babylift, or you justknew that they adopted you in
some way?
SPEAKER_02 (06:12):
I knew because mum was fanatical at collecting
information.
So she had an album, a photoalbum with newspaper clippings,
which a lot of adoptee parentsdo now that I've found out and
met other adoptees, is that Iknew that there was a war and
that one and this is one of thechallenges we'll get into as as
(06:32):
an inter-country adopt adadoptee, is we're always told,
Oh, you're so lucky, you're solucky.
I just remember as a kid gettingtold, Oh, you're so lucky,
you're so lucky because you'vebeen adopted to the Wims family.
And I was, I was very, verygrateful.
I've had one of the bestchildhoods I could ask for.
I was exposed to every sport, Iwent to a very good school, I
(06:54):
lived an amazing lifestyle fullof adventure and you know, from
everything from motorbikes towater skiing to sailing boats to
surfing to I was exposed to anamazing childhood as a young
Australian, but constantly itwas this you're so lucky, you're
so lucky, and that's festeredover time.
(07:14):
And I guess why I was smilinggoing, Yes, I am lucky that I've
got a motorbike, yes, I amlucky, but I guess it's not
until you get older that yousort of sort of go, uh hang on,
there's a few unansweredquestions here.
So that was always festering theback of my head that, you know,
hey, uh I fit in here, but I amdifferent.
Sort of like a a round peg in asquare hole growing up.
SPEAKER_00 (07:36):
Right.
Wow.
That makes a lot of sense, andI'm sure other people that have
been adopted can understand thatas well.
And I appreciate you beingvulnerable and honest with us
about that process.
And you know, I think peopleinitially want to say because
the war is going on and this ishappening and that, you know, so
many lives were unfortunatelylost that you were lucky, but
(07:57):
that is not the most appropriatething to say.
Like, you if it was your role,what would you have it?
Like you wouldn't have to Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (08:06):
Great question.
I mean, yeah, I mean, I I I knowmum would say to me, You're so
lucky and that you came from theworld, and we'd look at the the
the newspaper articles, and yes,I mean I was very lucky to be
out of Vietnam to to be part ofOperation Babylift and to
realize that also I was verymalnourished.
And I've actually got a letterfrom the orphanage, which it
(08:26):
really explains, reinforces howlucky I was.
Uh I'll just read you it if youif you don't mind.
So this is from the from theorphanage, and it was passed on
as background information for myadoptive parents uh who raised
me in Adelaide in SouthAustralia.
(08:48):
They were given this letter fromthe orphanage and it says Hwin
van Gung, that's my Vietnamesename.
Mother left one year ago andleft little Gung with his uncle,
who is a soldier.
The uh the uncle already haseight children of his own to
look after, and the child wasleft at St.
Andrews Orphanage six monthsago, signing a paper saying that
(09:12):
it he is too so my apologiesbecause it's very hard to read
the right handwriting, that heis too poor and his mother
didn't come back for him andasked for the little one to be
released for adoption.
U Gung is two years old, hasplenty of teeth, very insecure,
needs terra a terrible lot oflove, some good care and food,
(09:35):
is always hungry.
But apart from this, is quitenormal.
Picture, because there's apicture attached, pitcher, not
good, because he was sleepy andtired and he is obviously not
well.
And that's all it is.
Not even signed by we don't evenknow who wrote that letter.
It's handwritten, and there's alittle picture of me as a baby,
and I'll I'll I'll I'llcertainly share that with you.
(09:55):
But that is the original letterfrom the orphanage.
So that's all the information myparents got other than the
adoption paper, which says my mymother's my birth mother's name,
and that is it, and and we'reassuming it's all legitimate.
Um unfortunately, as I've learntover the years, that not all the
(10:16):
information and paperwork fromVietnam, as you can appreciate
during a wartime, wasn't overlyaccurate.
But it says here that mymother's name was Hui Twi Tweet,
I think that's how you pronounceit, and apologies to the Vietnam
the Vietnamese community that uhthat hear that and I'm
mispronouncing it, but it doessay here that um he Hun Van Gung
(10:42):
Mail was born on the 30th ofMarch 1973 at Saigon 2.
Unknown father but mother, Mrs.
Huin T Touet, and that's all wehave.
And unfortunately that's theonly birth date we had, and then
we look at other paperwork andwe look at the the um the
documentation of the OperationBaby Lift, and then it doesn't
(11:04):
have a birth date, so we'restill we still don't really know
when my birth date was, eventhough that adoption paper shows
that it said it was March 30th.
The other paperwork contradictsthat.
So we've been celebrating March30th, but I know it for one fact
that my mother many years agosaid to me that they messed up
my birth date and it was meantto be October, then they changed
it back to March 30th.
(11:26):
So we'll never really know.
And that's that's kind of cool.
Um, I sort of play on it alittle bit.
You know, I can either be sixmonths either side, so yeah, six
months.
SPEAKER_00 (11:36):
Wow.
Oh, by my heart.
Wow.
Um, I'm so thankful you're herewith us.
I'm so thankful you're sharingyour story with us, and just
like brings me so much so manytears.
And just to imagine, like you'rejust one of many people that
also have to experience this.
But um, you know, I'm sograteful that your parents did
(11:58):
save you and that the baby liftoperation did take place.
And just like you reading thatletter of the two-year-old young
boy that was always hungry and alittle shy and just needed all a
terrible lot of love.
It fills my heart with happinessthat you got to receive that
love, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:16):
And also brings my heart with sadness that war
creates places like this, andum, it's just so many mixed
feelings right now.
But um, I want to go back to youand ask you how did not knowing
your birth date, parents, ormedical history shape the way
that you saw yourself, or howdid your parents navigate that
(12:36):
when they did receive you?
SPEAKER_02 (12:38):
Yeah, no, great question.
And look, thank you.
Um it's it's been a long journeyin which the unknown is the best
example I can give, Carrie, isthat adoption or inter-country
adoption to me, and by the way,this is just my viewpoint, and
(12:59):
and I'm I'm not saying it'sright or wrong, and it's only
now I'm as an adult and I'mmeeting more adoptees, but
inter-country adoption,particularly from Operation Baby
Lift back in 1975, to me asBarton Goon Williams, is like a
bruise.
It's it's like a bruise that weget that you see it for a day,
(13:19):
and people go, Oh, you bumpedyourself, and there's a bit of
oh yeah, a bit of sympathy.
And then that bruise, thebruising goes, it fades away,
but it still hurts.
And that's the best analogy Ican give with adoption is that
most of the time that bruise isnot there, but every now and
then a bump it.
And that's what adoption hasbeen like for me growing up, and
is still like it for me as anadult.
(13:41):
It's that constant reminder ofthe what if.
Where are they?
Why?
That's constantly, and as anadult, it actually perpetuates
even more because we startquestioning why.
Why did mum feel that she justcouldn't look after me?
Why did mum did she?
I mean, I I obviously she gaveme to my uncle, and the uncle
(14:06):
was strong enough to say, hey,I've got eight children already,
I can't look after a ninth, anddrop me off to the orphanage.
So the questions of why reallyplay in your head.
And as a young child, I was justtrying to fit in, and I think
for so long I just wanted to belike my family and like the
majority of the kids that I grewup in, I grew up with at school.
(14:28):
I grew up, you know, in the1970s in a very nice area of
Adelaide, which is very whitemiddle class, and I was the
token Asian.
I think there was two otherAsian children in the school in
the school, but I had I hadwhite Anglo-Saxon parents and
kids kids are kids, you know,they're curious.
(14:48):
And I would constantly get, youknow, I mean I think the ones
that hurt the most were the onesthat the kids that didn't know
me are from other schools whenyou go, you know, when you go to
sport or you go to events wherethere's other schools.
The kids in the school generallygot to know me pretty well and
and it wasn't too bad.
Occasionally I'd get a bit ofsubliminal racism, which is
that's life.
I'm not saying it's right, butthe stuff that really hurt that
(15:11):
I remember that's I've had toreally change my viewpoint and
everything and and how I how Ifit in was the ching chong.
I would get that all the time.
And then as I got to highschool, I'd be like, I'm gonna
take on Barton because you knowhe's Ching Chong, Jackie Chan,
Bruce Lee, you know, it was themartial arts.
And that really ate at me overtime because and it still eats
(15:34):
at me a little bit as a as anadult, particularly because I
went into the performing artsand into film and stunt work
like yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (15:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:42):
Most people associate Asians with martial
arts.
And I remember going to mum inmy in my in my late teens to
early twenties and said, Mum, II need to learn martial arts.
I I'm gonna get the shit beatdown at me.
So I'm allowed to say that.
You know, I I'm gonna get beatenup.
She said, Alright, well, if youreally feel that way, but it
she's she was so anti-violence.
(16:04):
But I started training and I Imean I re I got in a few
scuffles but not many because Iwasn't overly good at it because
I was a water baby.
I was always exposed to watersports, and from eight years of
age I was I was absolutely blownaway with water and swing, and
that saved me, I guess you wouldsay, is that so you're obviously
a f uh stage combat fighter?
(16:26):
Yeah, yeah, cool.
Growing up I rememberdistinctly, you know, kids would
try to take me on physically andfight me, you know, like, come
on, you know martial arts,you're the Jackie Chan, you know
the Bruce Lee, and but I was nota good fighter.
So I remember going to mum andas I got older and wanting to
learn, but I still I didn't Ididn't pick it up naturally like
(16:48):
I did with water sports, andthat's because from a young age,
from eight years of age, I was alife-saving nipper where my
parents were very much intowater sports, being uh you know,
in Australia we live very closeto water, so my parents saw it
as very important that I'dlearned to swim and be into
water sports.
So that sort of saved me, eventhough I felt again, I felt I
(17:10):
don't like using the wordsubstandard.
I felt like I'd failed that, youknow, even as an Asian, I can't
even do martial arts, you know,and that sat with me with a for
a long time that I think I wasthe token Asian at my school.
I was definitely a token a tokenAsian at my high school that
couldn't do martial arts thatwell because at high school
there were a lot of Asianstudents and they all did
(17:31):
martial arts, and I was the onlyone that didn't do it.
So it was only later in lifethat I sort of realized that I
had some strength, and I usedthe strength of the challenges
in my life to build confidenceand sort of become a bit more
niche, and it was only in laterlife as an adult that I realized
this is actually a really goodthing, and this did help me
navigate through somechallenging times, and it's
(17:53):
constant.
It's it's not a case of it'sjust at school or it's just when
you go to tuitions or it's justwhen you're doing learning.
It's all the time.
I mean, from employment towalking down the street, you
know, I we get stereotyped.
We live in a world ofstereotypes, which is great in
some ways, but I just wishpeople would stop and think
before they they you know speakout.
(18:15):
And unfortunately in the worldof social media, people feel
like they can speak out more andmore and be a bit more abrupt
and offend.
And I think it's a time wherepeople need to just chill out a
little bit and just you know,sit back and just listen more
than they speak.
And I guess I've done it that asI've got older, as I've realized
that hey, you know, uh I'm awater baby, I'm not a martial
(18:35):
artist, and people that want tojudge me, and you know, they
can.
SPEAKER_00 (18:38):
I mean, I they know judge yourselves, tell them to
look in the mirror.
No, and I completely agree withyou.
And people have no room forjudgment because we all have a
million and one whatever, and itdoesn't matter.
Like, I don't care what race youare, it's so unique.
I think the fact that you beingAsian is so amazing.
Like, how cool is that?
I think like Asians are thecoolest people in the world.
(19:01):
Like, you guys are amazing.
Like, and no, I don't I don'tlook at Asians and see martial
arts, but the people that do,then I think to me that they
just see the strength and theAsian community has built, but
it doesn't mean that every Asianidentifies as that or surrounds
themselves with that.
So, you know what?
Middle finger to those people,they need to get a hold of
themselves, and you know, um Iwould say that you um being born
(19:27):
Asian is like the most amazing,incredible thing.
Like God made you perfectly justthe way you are, and you you're
you're amazing.
So I'm gonna stop talking aboutthat because we're not even
gonna give energy to thosepeople, but I do want to let you
know that I completelyunderstand where you come from
because also beingAfrican-American myself and
black and all these things, youknow, and black girl with curly
(19:50):
hair, and it comes with alltypes of stereotypes and
preconceived notions that youcan't be this and that, or you
know, and so you know, it soundslike to me that at a young age
you were holding two differentrealities at once.
The life you were living and themystery of where you came from,
and then the also, well,technically, three different
realities, and then the thepeople's perception of who you
(20:14):
were when they saw you withoutyou even introducing yourself.
And I just want to lean intolike how you showed up to the
outside world and especiallythrough your relationships and
your sense of belonging andunderstanding like who you were.
You were born, like you said, awater baby.
You've been around water allyour life, but you come in as a
teenager deciding, saying, like,I'm gonna learn martial arts
because you wanted to lean intothat.
(20:36):
But I also want to say, like,you don't owe anyone anything.
You never, you don't have to dothat.
You are perfectly great just theway you are.
And if you loved marshmallowsand built marshmallow ports,
then that's who you are, youknow.
Yeah.
But I want to just also say forthe listeners that's listening
in today, like, I know thatwe'll get more on that, and
(20:56):
maybe you can talk to thatperson right now.
How did you get over trying toprove yourself to people the way
that they may have identifiedyou versus to just leaning into
who you truly were and you are?
SPEAKER_02 (21:10):
Yeah, good question.
I think I realized as an adult,and this happened in my early
30s.
I realized that I had to doexactly what you just said.
They're not don't even associatewasting energy and time on
certain people that behave thisway in society.
I'll give you an example.
The crucial factor was this casewhere I went to the doctors.
(21:30):
Not many people that know meknow this story.
I was at the doctor's inAustralia and I was waiting in
the waiting room.
It was a specialist doctor, itwasn't a GP, it was uh it was a
specialist.
And I was the only one in thewaiting room.
And I'm sitting there and hewalked out with his with his
manila folder, his folder, andwalked past me and went, Mr.
Williams, Mr.
(21:50):
Williams, and he looked left andlooked right.
Looked past me, Mr.
Williams, and by the time I'drealised and got up and went,
he'd turned around and gone.
Then I called out, uh uh I'mBarton Williams.
Yes, Barton Williams and heturned around and he he went he
realised he'd made a a uh a amisjudgment and he actually in
(22:11):
and full credit to him, he saidto me, Oh I'm so sorry, I wasn't
expecting you to be Mr.
Williams.
And I was like, Oh, okay.
And I thought for a minute, Ithis can go both ways, you know,
and I I realised, I realised, Ithought, no, that was a you
know, it at the time it shockedme and I I let it ride and and
went through it.
But that was a turning point inmy life as a as a young adult
(22:33):
that made me realise, y you knowwhat?
Some things just have to go theway they are and let them unfold
their white their in their ownunique way.
And if anything, it empowered meso well that I started writing.
And that's ultimately what umgot me through a lot of these.
I you know, I I don't put itdown as trauma, but I I come
back to that analogy I saidabout the bruise.
(22:54):
It's like I've been bumpedagain.
It was a bump of reality to getreality to say, hey, you you are
you are Barton, but to somepeople you're gonna be viewed
differently.
And that gave me the strength tostart my writing.
And you know, I was already ateacher and I'd already, you
know, I've already alreadycommitted to the way that I want
(23:14):
to pass on knowledge and impartmy knowledge onto children.
And I sort of realized afterthese things uh occurring in my
life that I need to write thesedown, and that's what happened.
So I took a a fairly negativeexperience with a doctor and
turned around, spoke to a fewclose friends, and we giggled
(23:34):
about it, but it it made merealize the importance of how,
and you just said it earlier,Carrie, that we shouldn't even
give be giving time to thesepeople and just move on and and
and and use that energy in apositive way.
And I think that's my wholestrength, and that's my whole
mantra, is that you know, I liketo say to myself that I am
powerful, I am effective, youknow, I've got it written down
here, I am effective, I caninfluence and I can help change
(23:58):
people in a positive way.
And I think that's come from theexperience uh experiences I've
had, and I think that'scomplemented beautifully now
physically because I'm taking onphysical challenges as a young
kid, right through to an adultswimming in Lake Michigan.
I've always chosen hard sports.
I was heavily involved inbarefoot water skiing, which is
water skiing with no skis, andyou are crazy.
(24:23):
So yeah, so and I think I thinkI've I think I've taken you know
the challenges physically andemotionally and combined them
and use them in a positive way.
So that that's what I'm about.
SPEAKER_00 (24:35):
That's so impressive.
Wow, when belonging feelsunstable on the inside, you
know, a lot of people I feellike turn to something solid to
hold on to.
But for you, it seems like notonly did you take to writing,
but your body became that anchorfor you.
And now you talk about waterskiing with bare feet.
Oh my goodness.
Like, I love to talk about thatphysical challenge of becoming
of how how that became a part ofyour language of survival, part
(24:59):
of your way to fully loveyourself, a way of you you
saying, like, I'm gonna fully beBart, and this is what Bart is.
So, like, can we go to that?
I wanna talk about like I knowyou mentioned um a lot of things
about like your body, body beingkind of like a teacher for you,
like a bridge.
SPEAKER_02 (25:18):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_00 (25:20):
And you you've done a lot.
You were a junior surflifesaver, right?
At eight.
And then I swimming in LakeMichigan, and then skiing bare
feet.
What drew you to these extremephysical environments?
Like, what was that like bigtransition as that this is what
I want to do?
SPEAKER_02 (25:38):
Yeah, I think I think one of the things that
I've learned over time is tofollow your gut instincts.
And I was very lucky that I wasgiven the ex you know the
exposure to water skiing from ayoung age.
You know, sure I was swimming inthe ocean at eight years of age,
getting you know dumped by wavesas a junior lifesaver.
And I I remember crying andbeing scared, and mum would just
(26:00):
say, You're going to be alright,we're here to support you,
rah-rah, rah.
You know, mum was amazing, mumwas my rock.
But at the same time, I waslearning to water ski as well.
And dad, that was dad's side.
He was he was tough love, youknow.
He's uh he's he's a baby boomer,so it was tough love with dad.
And he would say, Come on, geton the rope, hang on to the ski
rope, and away I'd go and try toski.
(26:21):
And I remember just gettingsmashed and smashed.
And the key, I guess, to anyphysical challenge is the
support network you've got withyou.
And it's that that immersionrule.
I always say, if you hang aroundfive people that do something
great, you'll become the sixthgreat person, you know,
particularly when it comes tophysical activity as well, is
(26:42):
that we we do need support.
And I was lucky I had my myfamily and friends, and I got
into water skiing, and then Iobviously saw someone barefoot
water ski, and then I said, Dad,I want to do that.
And he said, Well, you know, yougotta we're gonna have to have
to learn the right way.
That's how it was it was bred.
I was born uh I guess with thaturge to all right, I want to do
(27:04):
that, and then I met the rightpeople and I learned, but it was
it was hard, it was I took a lotof injuries and hard fools, and
I stuck at it, and then as ayoung adult, I got into it
heavily and bec it it became acompetitive sport, and I was
lucky enough eventually in 2001to make the Australian uh open
squad uh uh in barefoot waterskiing, and we went to Florida
(27:26):
and you know uh I've been I'vebeen very lucky to um to to be
involved at the competitionlevel of a sport that is
generally considered prettytough.
Barefoot water skiing is youused to be considered a
daredevil act.
Uh someone yeah and now it'snatural sport.
SPEAKER_00 (27:44):
I mean I I love water, but I don't know.
Uh yeah, no.
You can have that all day, everyday.
SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
Thank you.
It's a good rush, and I and Ithink that's the the other
thing.
I have a very simple saying thatuh, you know, nothing easy is
great and nothing great is easy,and I've sort of installed that
in my brain, and I've beenquestioned on that a few times,
but uh it's a general rule forme.
Uh anything that's worth puttingeffort into i it returns great
(28:13):
things.
SPEAKER_00 (28:14):
I love that.
Wow.
What happens in your mind whenyou enter this freezing water?
Like, what do you say toyourself?
SPEAKER_02 (28:20):
Yeah, and I guess that's where the next stage of
my life and physical challenges.
I mean, I still water ski, but Idon't I don't compete
competitively in barefoot waterskiing.
But later in life I got intocold water swimming,
particularly during lockdown in2020.
I was living in London, and Iwas very fortunate again at I
talk about the support network,and it's so important that
(28:40):
everyone has a great supportnetwork.
And in lockdown, I was exposedto cold water swit swimming in
in England, in the River Thamesand various rivers and lakes
around England.
And again, the crew I was swimswimming with were saying,
Barton, you're being a bit weak.
I I'd complain that I was coldand not carrying enough fat, and
(29:01):
they'd say, No, just toughen upand you learn how to breathe
properly and you'll be fine.
And then what, three yearslater, you know, uh I managed to
get down to colder and colderwater.
And then what are we now?
It's now 2026.
In the last two years, I'vereally taken it up here in in
Michigan, Lake Michigan inChicago, and the challenge is
(29:22):
it's all about breathing.
You know, you've probably heardof Wim Hof, know the ice
plungers and ice bars and iceshowers.
Cold water lake swimming is anext level again, is because you
are actually swimming, you'vegot to get your breath
controlled, you have to thinkabout how long you've been
exposed to the cold water, letalone the cold air, which is
colder than the water when youget out.
(29:44):
And that's something I reallylearned here in Chicago is that
your cold water exposure, ifyou're not careful, you get
hypother hypothermia and you andyou die.
So it's a lot of science, whichI love science, and I've spoken
to the right people, and so farI haven't had too many injuries,
and it's a great rush.
I mean, it's a beautiful feelingwhen you get cold, but then you
(30:05):
get warm again, and it gives thebody a wonderful, wonderful,
energizing feeling.
SPEAKER_00 (30:10):
Yeah, wow.
How did you discover theconnection between training your
body and training your mind anddoing these levels of sports?
SPEAKER_02 (30:19):
Yeah, I think the the key there is breathing, and
the more I've spoken, and I'vebeen very lucky to live in
England for five years,obviously Australia my whole
life, and then now four years inChicago, I've met some great
athletes along the way and greatcoaches.
And the connection between mindand body is absolutely
proportional when you talk aboutbreathing.
(30:41):
You have to slow yourself down,you have to count, you have to
calm yourself.
And the challenge with iceswimming and cold water exposure
is that you don't want yourheart rate to go too low.
Because what naturally happensphysiologically is when
hypothermia hypothermia kicksin, is your heart rate does slow
down and you don't want it toslow down too much.
(31:02):
So it's a real a real balanceand it's a real mind game that
hey, I've got to calm myselfdown and breathe properly with a
set breathing pattern to get myheart rate to go down enough,
but not too much once I get inthe cold water.
So it's it's a fine balance, andI think that's what I love about
the challenge.
It's not just a physicalchallenge, it's the fact that I
(31:23):
had to have to really think.
I have to think about mybreathing.
I have to be looking at mywatch, and I've got these fancy
goggles called form goggles thatread the time in my goggles.
I can see my heart rate in mygoggles, I can see how long I'm
being exposed to the cold water.
So I've got the right technologyas well.
So it's about having the rightequipment, but that allows me
obviously to make sure that I'mconnected mentally and
(31:46):
physiologically, I can see thatmy heart rate is not going too
low or too high.
SPEAKER_00 (31:51):
Wow.
So we could take a lot fromthat.
Even in everyday life, it'sabout like you're breathing and
slowing your heart rate down.
And even when you're gettinginto cold water or handling
discomfort, like you're trainingyour mind with your breaths and
on how to handle life.
SPEAKER_02 (32:08):
Yeah, I mean, you only have to look at the yogis.
The yogis have been doing it foryears, haven't they?
So, you know, uh breathing isvital.
But if you if you don't have theright mindset, you can't control
that breathing.
And I think that's absolutelycrucial.
SPEAKER_00 (32:20):
Yeah, I love that.
Wow.
As you're describing this, ismaking me think about like how
vital breathing is and how vitalmaking that decision and the
important distinction betweenlike your fast breaths and your
slow down breaths on how longyou can last.
And that brings me into thepoint about resilience, you
know.
I think like resilience for alot of us can um can feel really
(32:44):
daunting when you're in a reallydark situation, you don't know
how long you're gonna be there.
And you're asking yourself, youknow, am I gonna be suffering
for a while or am I gonna beliving in this unknown for a
while or this dual reality for awhile?
When do I, you know, kind of Ifinally choose like going
forward as the only option?
(33:05):
I wanna talk about like what didresilience look like to you in
your journey, you know, fromadoption to this new life to
defining your own identity foryourself to choosing to say, I'm
not a martial artist, I'm awater boy, and I'm gonna succeed
at that and I'm gonna lean moreinto me.
What is that, what does thatlook like in your journey?
(33:26):
I feel like you've done you'vehad a very resilient journey.
SPEAKER_02 (33:29):
Yeah, I mean, resilience to me, first of all,
is is a life, it's a lifelongskill to me.
And that's no scientificbackground there at all.
For me personally, it's alifelong skill which enables me
to navigate through testingtimes.
And we're talking testing times,you know, I think the most
(33:50):
common, the most commonresilience or problems that
people have or testing times areloss of loved ones, loss of job,
relocation, those kinds ofthings, illness, health, they
are the major ones in in modernday life, and I'm generalizing,
but that are going to test us.
And I think what's happened isfor me, because I've had them a
(34:12):
lot of unanswered questions,resilience to me has been
ongoing.
It's it hasn't been an isolatedcase.
And and the way I see it is thatyou are constantly having to
come up with practical things tohelp you go on to the next day.
And I think that's what's beenmy way of life, as far as when I
say I'm resilient.
It's I certainly I accept thefact that I can say, Oh yeah, I
(34:37):
I I am a resilient person, but II like to think more so that I'm
a practical person that's justnavigating through testing
times, you know.
Uh when we lose loved ones,that's been really tough.
It's and it it hurts all thetime.
And and that's a reality thatI've accepted and that we all
have to accept, unfortunately.
But it's people handle itdifferently, don't they?
(34:58):
So for me, I've gone on from dayone from the challenges of not
knowing who my biological motheris.
I've never met her.
I don't know who my biologicaldad is, and I guess that's an
acceptance that's fested overtime, and it's just a curiosity.
It's when it's not curiosity andit's a tough time, I I find that
(35:19):
hard.
Like like a loss of uh mymother.
You know, that's that's uhthat's not curiosity, that
actually happened.
I lost my mother, I lost my youknow I've lost good friends, you
know.
So that's different.
I guess what I'm saying here isthat for me, the key to my
resilience, so to speak, and Iand I don't like losing that
word loosely, the key to menavigating through tough times
(35:42):
has come into several things.
Number one is my networks,whether they're friends or
family, my peers, like as uhwork peers or even teachers, I
still am in contact with acouple of my teachers from high
school.
Um enjoyment and fulfillment forme.
I'm lucky enough to have plentyof physical challenges and
events in my life that I reallyenjoy.
(36:03):
I love going to theatre, I lovegoing to film, I love
exercising, so I get enjoymentand fulfillment.
And the other ones which ismassive for me, again, I have no
scientific data behind this, isreflection.
I've been massive on reflectionin my life, and that comes
through my writing, and I'mabsolutely convinced that has
helped me to become moreresilient.
It's helped me write aboutthings that tough times have
(36:26):
happened, it's helped me writeabout sadness, you know.
At the example when I said aboutthe doctor, you know, misjudging
me and looking for Mr.
Williams, I wrote that into aplay.
So, you know, writing has been agreat source of me dealing with
tough times, and I call that,you know, reflection time,
reflection time.
(36:46):
You know, for me, reflectiontime is writing.
For some people it's talking.
For me, I find it easier to towrite about things and reflect
than I do talking to people,which sounds sounds a bit weird.
SPEAKER_00 (36:57):
No, I love that.
It's like it's amazing.
You've done so much deepinternal work and sitting with
that discomfort, questioning ouridentity, redefining strength,
and then writing about it andnot deciding to just sit there
and at some point all of thatturned outward, not only into
stories.
Like you said, you made a wholeplay, which is fascinating about
the experience that happened atthe doctor's office, which many
(37:19):
people need to watch and tounderstand and to then come back
and question their own realitiesof how they are how they are
showing up in the world.
What are they saying to others,you know?
And I think also you you turnthat into a service, a service
that you're giving to others,you know.
Um I love how you turn this paininto purpose.
And I want to give into yourbook because you're talking
(37:42):
about writing, right?
And what inspired you to write,but what are you?
SPEAKER_02 (37:46):
Yeah, so but what are you came from the the the
actual day?
I remember the day I actuallystarted writing it because in
1997 I was a teacher in NewZealand, and the boy, I still
remember the boy's name.
And in New Zealand, where I wasteaching in South Auckland,
there was a big Polynesian boy.
He's physically as big as me.
(38:06):
I'm I'm I'm not a big guy, youknow, but this boy was big.
He was he was grade five, and hecame up to me and he went and
he's had a strong Samoan accent,and I still remember him as a
beautiful kid, and he said tome, Hey, uh, hey, Mr.
Williams, because they speak sosoftly with their Polynesian
accents, it's a beautifulaccent.
And he goes, Hey Mr.
Williams, but what are you?
Are you Aussie or are youVietnamese?
(38:27):
And then he walked off.
And I was to this day, I waslike, Wow, this kid's grade
five, and he's hit me with aquestion on the first day in
1997 at Papa Toy Toy EastPrimary School, and he said to
me, But what are you?
And I couldn't answer him forthe first ten seconds.
And he walked off and uh afterhe came back after the lesson,
(38:48):
uh another lesson, I said, Tua,I'm an Australian Vietnamese.
And you know, and that that sortof reali made me realize that
question, but what are you?
Was there and you know, I Ithink it's beautiful that uh it
took a grade five primary schoolstudent, elementary student, to
ask such a profound question.
And that allowed me to talk moreabout it, and I remember talking
(39:10):
to the staff about it, and maybethe children there in New
Zealand, because it you knowthere's such a strong Polynesian
culture, maybe they are a bitmore culturally aware and
interested in people'sbackgrounds.
So I started writing a book, andthen over time I felt it wasn't
good enough, and I handed it toa few people that that I
respected in writing, and thenfinally in 2019 it got published
(39:32):
in London and as a children'sbook, and that gave me the
confidence to go, wow, you know,this this story is worthy of
being being told, and it'sbasically the story of a young
boy that gets gets you know itgets told all the time, but what
are you?
Because he grew up in Australia,he was sent to Australia in a
cardboard box.
(39:52):
So it's basically about a boythat uh was adopted from Vietnam
and sent to Australia on acardboard box.
It's obviously autobiographicaland deals with people saying,
But what are you?
But at the end of the day, thepremise of the book shows that
it doesn't matter where you'refrom, it's what's in your heart,
and it's and it's what you loveand what people more
importantly, people love you.
And that's the that's the wholemessage is that your love and
(40:16):
network is more important thanpeople going around saying, But
what are you?
and you can you can't answer it.
So that was in 2019 as achildren's children's book.
And I was I loved going aroundto schools in England and
sharing that story with peoplebecause England is such a
melting pot of cultures, as weknow.
And then in 2024, I'd written aan adult play version of of the
(40:39):
book.
I modified it to a a play and itwas performed.
Yeah, it was performed at theEdinburgh Fringe in Scotland in
2025, my apologies.
202 Yep, so the play, the adultplay was then mounted in
Scotland in 2024 at theEdinburgh Fringe for a month.
And then in 2025, a slightlydifferent version, an Australian
(41:02):
version of the play was written,and that was performed in 2025
last year, and that was calledFragile Handle with Care.
And the first one was called inScotland was called Precious
Cargo, and then hopefully in2026 we might we might be
getting an American version ofthe same story.
SPEAKER_01 (41:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (41:22):
And that's gonna be that's going to be called But
What Are You, and that will bebased off the original book done
in 2019.
So fingers crossed that we'vegot some people interested in uh
mounting that production thisyear in America, and that would
complete the trifecta, goingfrom Scotland to Australia and
finishing in America this year.
So who knows?
SPEAKER_00 (41:42):
Wow, uh who knows?
I think it's gonna happen, okay?
Yeah, why that's impressive.
Why what I find like most forsure, what I find most powerful
is that you're modeling aversion of strength that
includes tenderness andcuriosity and emotional honesty,
and you're giving it to thosethat need it most.
And it's our children, they'rethe most vulnerable.
(42:03):
I, you know, it's like whatyou're doing is so radical in a
lot of places, especially formen to like have this level of
vulnerability and courage toshare their truth and um all
spark from when you wereteaching in New Zealand and a
five-year-old Samoan kid comesup to you and says, What are
you?
And I think that is sobeautiful.
(42:26):
And um, wow, like uh where didyou because when we lean into
this and we talk aboutmasculinity and vulnerability
and courage, especially thesedays, like this is stuff that is
like on the culprit that peopleare discussing, where where did
you learn that strength?
Like that strength should looklike this, or that vulnerability
(42:47):
looks like this, and you tellingyour story.
SPEAKER_02 (42:49):
I think I've learned that over the years, being a
teacher, predominantly a femaledominated profession in
Australia.
Not so sure over here in Americaor in the UK, but definitely in
Australia, when I was goingthrough university in the 90s,
it was predominantly females.
So as a male, I was always aminority as far as speaking up,
(43:12):
and I I definitely had aconnection with children,
particularly boys that areeither very, very hard to
control or very distracted, andI sympathized for them.
So I think that's what'sactually I've connected with
because I feel like them.
It's that I I I totally get it.
I feel and I think I mentionedearlier that that whole square
(43:34):
peg round hole feeling that I'venever really fitted in.
So I feel like if I can impartthat on just one student, just
one student in a classroom of30, then I'm doing my job.
And I think that's always sat inthe back of my head, right
through university as a trainingteacher.
Even when I write, if I can justmake one audience member
(43:56):
resonate with that, then I'vedone my job.
And that's That's the key, isabout it resonating with it.
And I I and I think that's alsobeen a a problem of mine is that
I felt that uh writing a storyor a book about your own life is
very narcissistic, and I wasn'tkeen for that.
And uh it's only in the last tenyears I've realized why didn't I
do this earlier?
(44:17):
Because I'd had it all writtendown.
And then people said to mepeople said to me, No, no, no,
no, no, this story's bigger thanyou.
It's not you've got to shareyour personal side of it to
actually get people tounderstand how big this topic
is, and that we do need to betalking about it, and we do
need, particularly boys, to betalking about their c
insecurities.
SPEAKER_01 (44:38):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (44:38):
You know, their feeling of being around peg in a
square hole, and I love what yousaid earlier, Carrie, is that it
doesn't matter what ethnicity orrace you are, we all have to
acknowledge this stuff.
We all have to speak up and makesure things are being done
right, which is ironic in lightof everything that's happening
that you know in America.
So, you know, and that's why Iit's so important, and that's
(45:00):
why I will continue to keepdoing what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_00 (45:02):
I love that.
I love that so much, and I'm soproud of your courage to speak
up.
And it's so interesting.
You said, you know, like youwere feeling like it would be
narcissistic sharing your ownstory, but your own story is
also so unique, and there's somany people that were in the
same position as you, and thenlike who did you look to, and
where did you find a book thatlooked like that?
(45:23):
And when those books don't existor there are very few far in
between, that's your sign, yourkey sign that someone needs to
hear this, so then you can helpthem push through it sooner or
faster.
And so often I feel like peopleare so afraid to share their
story because of the feeling ofbeing judged by their story or
the feeling of feeling like it'sall about me.
(45:43):
No, if you take the viewpoint ofoff of you and say, who is my
audience that I want to help getthis to, motivate, tell them to
keep going, tell them that theiridentity matters.
That's where the truth lies.
That's where the beauty lies,that's where your story lies.
It doesn't live within us, it'snot about us, it's about others.
(46:04):
And I think like you were notselfish, you were selfless in
deciding to put this book outthere.
So thank you for doing that.
SPEAKER_02 (46:12):
No, thank you.
Yeah, no, you're you're spot on.
And and I think that comes withmature with maturity too.
So maybe I was like a bit ofmaturity to realize that.
SPEAKER_00 (46:21):
It does so much time.
We could be honest, like, youknow, no, like, yeah, you go
through different seasons oflife, and you're right, you do
see things a different way.
And then once you like, I justcrossed over 30, I'm like, ah,
my birthday's tomorrow,actually.
SPEAKER_02 (46:35):
But happy birthday for tomorrow.
SPEAKER_00 (46:39):
Thank you.
And I'm just like, it it's sointeresting because I'm like,
wow, I am a different personthan when I was 21.
I'm like, okay, but no, you'reright.
It does come with maturity.
But I mean, someone's out herelistening to us right now, and
they're they're being inspiredby this conversation and by your
journey.
And I would like to ask yousomething because sometimes it
just does feel overwhelming, youknow, where to begin.
(47:02):
And I want to ground people withsomething practical where they
can take away.
And I think you've left usalready with a lot of that.
But when a person's feelingreally disconnected with their
body, you know, and not fullyknowing their identity or, you
know, redefining their identityfor themselves, what's one small
place that you feel like thatthey can start?
SPEAKER_02 (47:23):
Really good question.
I I personally would be startingwith reflection.
And for me, that would involvepen and paper.
I I'm old school because I'm I'mof that generation.
I'm sure some people would maybeuse their iPhone or a voice
recorder or they'd type.
But for me, personal reflection,it would just start with
(47:45):
personal reflection.
And it I mean, it could be assimple as happy place, find a
happy place and be in that happyplace.
But to do that, you need tobetter write down where your
happy place is, or you just goto it.
So for me, you know, I I heareveryone use this loosely so
much lately, is that whole thewhole write a gratitude diary.
Yeah, I get it, I understandthat.
But if you just write thatroutinely, I think it loses I
(48:11):
don't know.
I I just feel for me,especially, I'm grateful for
this.
It becomes uh not monotonous, itbecomes um lacking true depth
for me.
So I just think uh just write,just write or be in a happy
place.
And for some people it's yoga.
I think yoga is amazing.
I love yoga, um, not only forthe physiological benefits from
(48:34):
a lot of training, but I thinkit's just so good for breathing
and so good for your head to donothing, just to be out of the
zone.
So um so I I find to where tostart where do where where to
start?
I would say in a happy place.
A happy place, and that would befirst of all, discover where is
your happy place because noteveryone knows where their happy
place is.
And if you don't know and youhaven't got a support network,
(48:56):
then you have to find someone tohelp you find that happy place.
Because not everyone has asupport network, you know, not
everyone has a partner or noteveryone has a a friend, but
they may ha know someone thathas a dog, they may know someone
that has a cat, they may knowsomeone that has, you know, that
will listen to them.
So and they might help them tofind where their happy place is.
SPEAKER_00 (49:16):
Yeah, I love that so much.
I want to close this um thispodcast session with bringing
this back to you.
Not the roles you play or thepractices you've done and the
advice you've given, but I thinkthat this is all amazing.
But the person you are now, andI wanted to know, Bart, like if
you could speak to the baby youyou once were, what would you
(49:38):
tell them?
SPEAKER_02 (49:39):
Wow, that's that's a really good question, Carrie.
And I'm getting really withoutgetting too emotional, I'm
getting really strong images.
Um, and I'll send you a copy ofthe documentary.
I did a documentary where theythey filmed me next to a young
child, and and it's the onlyother time I've had that same
feeling.
What would I say?
I would say trust your gutinstincts and never ever stop
(50:02):
loving.
And that can be anything.
That could be love for a person,love for an activity, love for a
belief, love for food, whateveryou choose to love.
I would say trust your guninstant instincts and love.
I would I I think that's what Iwould say to to baby gulling.
I would say just trust yourtrust your gut instincts and
love.
(50:22):
Never stop loving.
That's what I would say.
SPEAKER_00 (50:25):
So beautiful.
Wow.
I love this episode so much.
It's just amazing.
Thank you.
I want to say thank you all somuch for listening to the
Resilience Fowl Podcast today.
And thank you so much for ouramazing ripple, beautiful guest,
Bart, that has shared his uhbeautiful story with us.
If this story resonates withyou, or if you know someone that
(50:47):
could just use uh a virtual hugand to let them know that they
are seen, their story is felt,and to just be inspired, please
send them this episode.
Um, we would love for you tokeep up with Bart in all of his
incredible work.
So as he tours around with hisplays and he competes in water
sports and does incrediblethings.
Bart, how can we stay in contactwith you?
SPEAKER_02 (51:09):
Yeah, sure.
They can check me out onInstagram, which is Barton
C.Williams, or they can visit mywebsite, which is
BartonCWilliams.com.
SPEAKER_00 (51:17):
Perfect.
And we're gonna include those inthe show notes below.
So if you are listening to uswherever you get podcasts, look
at those notes, follow Bart,check it out, and um be kind to
yourself today.
Know that you are truly lovedand that you matter.
And stay tuned for the nextepisode of the Resilience Fouls
(51:38):
Unlocked.
This is your girl, Carrie.
When you feel like life has dealt you a hand of
unfair cards, instead of voting,you double down or you stuck in
the game.
You face battles.
You felt broken.
But hey, do us a favor.
Put your hand on your heart.
You feel that?
You're still here.
Welcome to the Resilience FilesUnlocked.
(00:23):
Where survival meetstransformation.
Welcome to the Resilience FilesUnlocked, where survival meets
transformation.
I'm your host, Carrie Bernan'sactress stuntwoman.
This space was created forhonest conversations about
survival, reinvention, healing,and the quiet strength it takes
to keep going when life doesn'tlook like what you imagined.
(00:46):
I am so excited for our guesttoday because his story is truly
impactful.
Some people are born intostories they know.
Others spend a lifetime learninghow to write their own.
Today's guest was born in thefinal days of the Vietnam War,
arrived in Australia throughOperation Baby Lift, and grew up
carrying questions that neverhad simple answers.
(01:06):
What he found instead was adeeper truth.
The resilience isn't aboutknowing where you came from,
it's about deciding who youbecome.
Before we get started, as wealways do in the resilience
files fashion, we like to readthe essay that our guest has
shared today.
So without further ado, we willdo that.
Our guest name is Bardin C.
(01:27):
Williams.
Hi, I'm Barden C.
Williams, a 52-year-old blokecoming to you from Chicago,
Illinois.
By now, you might be thinking,hang on, he doesn't sound
American.
Well, we haven't heard him yet.
We will hear him.
He does have an Australianaccent, for instance.
That's not English either.
Is he from New Zealand?
Or that other place next door?
To right, far jincom start.
(01:49):
I'm Australian.
But my beginning was a littledifferent from most Aussie kids.
I was born in Vietnam in 1975with the name Wing Van Gu in a
loving family who gave me acolorful childhood filled with
tough love, hard lessons, andyes, the kind of casual racism
that Australia, like manyplaces, has had to reckon with.
(02:09):
I don't share that for pity.
I share it because it built myresilience and my curiosity
about identity and belonging.
Growing up and even now, I wasconstantly asked, where are you
from?
What's your medical history?
What are you?
Those questions stayed with mefor decades.
Eventually they became the seedfor my children's book.
But what are you?
A story that helps kidsunderstand what it feels like to
(02:32):
look different, to feeldifferent, and to discover what
love, not appearance, is whattruly defines a family.
Writing that book helped me givemeaning to questions that once
made me feel small.
One of the greatest gifts myadoption journey gave me was an
understanding of physical andemotional resilience.
At eight years old, I wasbattling waves as a junior
nipper, surf lifesaver onAustralian beaches.
(02:54):
Years later, the same kid wouldbe I swimming in Lake Michigan
in the middle of winter wearingnothing but a pair of Speedos.
Yes, still questioning my lifechoices.
Somewhere along the way, Irealized something important.
When you train the body tohandle discomfort, you train the
mind to handle life.
Today, I blend athleticchallenges, education, and
storytelling to help peoplereconnect with their bodies,
(03:16):
strengthen their mentalresilience, and build confidence
in who they are.
Whether I'm swimming through icywater, performing on screen,
writing books, or speaking toyoung people, my mission is
always the same to help peoplediscover that they are stronger,
safer, and more capable thanthey think.
Both mind and body.
(03:37):
Arden C.
Williams, 2026.
Ow, I have chills all over mybody.
Before we get started, we alwayslike to ask people, how are you
feeling today?
How are you doing?
SPEAKER_02 (03:46):
I'm doing great.
I look out the window here inChicago and the summer's shining
and it looks warm.
And that to me, having grown upin Australia, just feels
awesome.
It looks like a 35-degree or ahundred degree Fahrenheit day as
I look out the window.
So the sunshine makes me smile.
So I'm pretty happy.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
I'm so happy to hear that.
That's beautiful.
Before we talk about who youbecome, I want to start at the
very beginning because so muchof resilience seems to be rooted
in questions that started beforeyou even had language for them.
First question I would like toask you is what's the earliest
memory you have of realizingyour story was different from
other kids?
SPEAKER_02 (04:23):
Right.
Great question.
I was adopted at the age ofso-called three years of age.
And what's really interesting isas an adult, I'm only learning
more about my adoption.
The earliest I can remember is Iremember my mother, mother who
just recently or the last twoyears has passed, who I was
(04:44):
super close to.
She took this photo of mybrother, my adoptive brother and
myself, and I'm holding theadoption papers.
And I was at least four years ofage.
And I remember mum giving givingme that photo when I was
younger.
I'm sure she didn't give it tome when when like have Polaroids
(05:04):
in the 70s, but I remember herhanding it to me.
So to answer that question, I'dhave to say it was it'd be four
or five years of age that Irecall, hey, I'm standing next
to my brother, mum's taking aphoto.
This is pretty special, and thispiece of paper says that I
belong to their family.
Did I process it maybe notcorrectly?
(05:27):
Probably you know, that'sprobably the the situation is
that I knew it was something todo with this family, and then I
belonged to that family, and Iknew that I I was different.
I mean, my brother had brownhair, was quite tall compared to
me.
My parents were blue-eyed andbrat brown hair, different
shaped eyes, different colouredskin.
(05:48):
So of course, f uh from a youngage, I would have to say maybe
four or five, as I recognizedhow I was different to the rest
of the family.
But I belonged to them.
SPEAKER_00 (05:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
Wow.
When did you um so at thatmoment, is that when you kind of
first was introduced to the thenotion of being adopted through
Operation Babylift, or you justknew that they adopted you in
some way?
SPEAKER_02 (06:12):
I knew because mum was fanatical at collecting
information.
So she had an album, a photoalbum with newspaper clippings,
which a lot of adoptee parentsdo now that I've found out and
met other adoptees, is that Iknew that there was a war and
that one and this is one of thechallenges we'll get into as as
(06:32):
an inter-country adopt adadoptee, is we're always told,
Oh, you're so lucky, you're solucky.
I just remember as a kid gettingtold, Oh, you're so lucky,
you're so lucky because you'vebeen adopted to the Wims family.
And I was, I was very, verygrateful.
I've had one of the bestchildhoods I could ask for.
I was exposed to every sport, Iwent to a very good school, I
(06:54):
lived an amazing lifestyle fullof adventure and you know, from
everything from motorbikes towater skiing to sailing boats to
surfing to I was exposed to anamazing childhood as a young
Australian, but constantly itwas this you're so lucky, you're
so lucky, and that's festeredover time.
(07:14):
And I guess why I was smilinggoing, Yes, I am lucky that I've
got a motorbike, yes, I amlucky, but I guess it's not
until you get older that yousort of sort of go, uh hang on,
there's a few unansweredquestions here.
So that was always festering theback of my head that, you know,
hey, uh I fit in here, but I amdifferent.
Sort of like a a round peg in asquare hole growing up.
SPEAKER_00 (07:36):
Right.
Wow.
That makes a lot of sense, andI'm sure other people that have
been adopted can understand thatas well.
And I appreciate you beingvulnerable and honest with us
about that process.
And you know, I think peopleinitially want to say because
the war is going on and this ishappening and that, you know, so
many lives were unfortunatelylost that you were lucky, but
(07:57):
that is not the most appropriatething to say.
Like, you if it was your role,what would you have it?
Like you wouldn't have to Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (08:06):
Great question.
I mean, yeah, I mean, I I I knowmum would say to me, You're so
lucky and that you came from theworld, and we'd look at the the
the newspaper articles, and yes,I mean I was very lucky to be
out of Vietnam to to be part ofOperation Babylift and to
realize that also I was verymalnourished.
And I've actually got a letterfrom the orphanage, which it
(08:26):
really explains, reinforces howlucky I was.
Uh I'll just read you it if youif you don't mind.
So this is from the from theorphanage, and it was passed on
as background information for myadoptive parents uh who raised
me in Adelaide in SouthAustralia.
(08:48):
They were given this letter fromthe orphanage and it says Hwin
van Gung, that's my Vietnamesename.
Mother left one year ago andleft little Gung with his uncle,
who is a soldier.
The uh the uncle already haseight children of his own to
look after, and the child wasleft at St.
Andrews Orphanage six monthsago, signing a paper saying that
(09:12):
it he is too so my apologiesbecause it's very hard to read
the right handwriting, that heis too poor and his mother
didn't come back for him andasked for the little one to be
released for adoption.
U Gung is two years old, hasplenty of teeth, very insecure,
needs terra a terrible lot oflove, some good care and food,
(09:35):
is always hungry.
But apart from this, is quitenormal.
Picture, because there's apicture attached, pitcher, not
good, because he was sleepy andtired and he is obviously not
well.
And that's all it is.
Not even signed by we don't evenknow who wrote that letter.
It's handwritten, and there's alittle picture of me as a baby,
and I'll I'll I'll I'llcertainly share that with you.
(09:55):
But that is the original letterfrom the orphanage.
So that's all the information myparents got other than the
adoption paper, which says my mymother's my birth mother's name,
and that is it, and and we'reassuming it's all legitimate.
Um unfortunately, as I've learntover the years, that not all the
(10:16):
information and paperwork fromVietnam, as you can appreciate
during a wartime, wasn't overlyaccurate.
But it says here that mymother's name was Hui Twi Tweet,
I think that's how you pronounceit, and apologies to the Vietnam
the Vietnamese community that uhthat hear that and I'm
mispronouncing it, but it doessay here that um he Hun Van Gung
(10:42):
Mail was born on the 30th ofMarch 1973 at Saigon 2.
Unknown father but mother, Mrs.
Huin T Touet, and that's all wehave.
And unfortunately that's theonly birth date we had, and then
we look at other paperwork andwe look at the the um the
documentation of the OperationBaby Lift, and then it doesn't
(11:04):
have a birth date, so we'restill we still don't really know
when my birth date was, eventhough that adoption paper shows
that it said it was March 30th.
The other paperwork contradictsthat.
So we've been celebrating March30th, but I know it for one fact
that my mother many years agosaid to me that they messed up
my birth date and it was meantto be October, then they changed
it back to March 30th.
(11:26):
So we'll never really know.
And that's that's kind of cool.
Um, I sort of play on it alittle bit.
You know, I can either be sixmonths either side, so yeah, six
months.
SPEAKER_00 (11:36):
Wow.
Oh, by my heart.
Wow.
Um, I'm so thankful you're herewith us.
I'm so thankful you're sharingyour story with us, and just
like brings me so much so manytears.
And just to imagine, like you'rejust one of many people that
also have to experience this.
But um, you know, I'm sograteful that your parents did
(11:58):
save you and that the baby liftoperation did take place.
And just like you reading thatletter of the two-year-old young
boy that was always hungry and alittle shy and just needed all a
terrible lot of love.
It fills my heart with happinessthat you got to receive that
love, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:16):
And also brings my heart with sadness that war
creates places like this, andum, it's just so many mixed
feelings right now.
But um, I want to go back to youand ask you how did not knowing
your birth date, parents, ormedical history shape the way
that you saw yourself, or howdid your parents navigate that
(12:36):
when they did receive you?
SPEAKER_02 (12:38):
Yeah, no, great question.
And look, thank you.
Um it's it's been a long journeyin which the unknown is the best
example I can give, Carrie, isthat adoption or inter-country
adoption to me, and by the way,this is just my viewpoint, and
(12:59):
and I'm I'm not saying it'sright or wrong, and it's only
now I'm as an adult and I'mmeeting more adoptees, but
inter-country adoption,particularly from Operation Baby
Lift back in 1975, to me asBarton Goon Williams, is like a
bruise.
It's it's like a bruise that weget that you see it for a day,
(13:19):
and people go, Oh, you bumpedyourself, and there's a bit of
oh yeah, a bit of sympathy.
And then that bruise, thebruising goes, it fades away,
but it still hurts.
And that's the best analogy Ican give with adoption is that
most of the time that bruise isnot there, but every now and
then a bump it.
And that's what adoption hasbeen like for me growing up, and
is still like it for me as anadult.
(13:41):
It's that constant reminder ofthe what if.
Where are they?
Why?
That's constantly, and as anadult, it actually perpetuates
even more because we startquestioning why.
Why did mum feel that she justcouldn't look after me?
Why did mum did she?
I mean, I I obviously she gaveme to my uncle, and the uncle
(14:06):
was strong enough to say, hey,I've got eight children already,
I can't look after a ninth, anddrop me off to the orphanage.
So the questions of why reallyplay in your head.
And as a young child, I was justtrying to fit in, and I think
for so long I just wanted to belike my family and like the
majority of the kids that I grewup in, I grew up with at school.
(14:28):
I grew up, you know, in the1970s in a very nice area of
Adelaide, which is very whitemiddle class, and I was the
token Asian.
I think there was two otherAsian children in the school in
the school, but I had I hadwhite Anglo-Saxon parents and
kids kids are kids, you know,they're curious.
(14:48):
And I would constantly get, youknow, I mean I think the ones
that hurt the most were the onesthat the kids that didn't know
me are from other schools whenyou go, you know, when you go to
sport or you go to events wherethere's other schools.
The kids in the school generallygot to know me pretty well and
and it wasn't too bad.
Occasionally I'd get a bit ofsubliminal racism, which is
that's life.
I'm not saying it's right, butthe stuff that really hurt that
(15:11):
I remember that's I've had toreally change my viewpoint and
everything and and how I how Ifit in was the ching chong.
I would get that all the time.
And then as I got to highschool, I'd be like, I'm gonna
take on Barton because you knowhe's Ching Chong, Jackie Chan,
Bruce Lee, you know, it was themartial arts.
And that really ate at me overtime because and it still eats
(15:34):
at me a little bit as a as anadult, particularly because I
went into the performing artsand into film and stunt work
like yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (15:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:42):
Most people associate Asians with martial
arts.
And I remember going to mum inmy in my in my late teens to
early twenties and said, Mum, II need to learn martial arts.
I I'm gonna get the shit beatdown at me.
So I'm allowed to say that.
You know, I I'm gonna get beatenup.
She said, Alright, well, if youreally feel that way, but it
she's she was so anti-violence.
(16:04):
But I started training and I Imean I re I got in a few
scuffles but not many because Iwasn't overly good at it because
I was a water baby.
I was always exposed to watersports, and from eight years of
age I was I was absolutely blownaway with water and swing, and
that saved me, I guess you wouldsay, is that so you're obviously
a f uh stage combat fighter?
(16:26):
Yeah, yeah, cool.
Growing up I rememberdistinctly, you know, kids would
try to take me on physically andfight me, you know, like, come
on, you know martial arts,you're the Jackie Chan, you know
the Bruce Lee, and but I was nota good fighter.
So I remember going to mum andas I got older and wanting to
learn, but I still I didn't Ididn't pick it up naturally like
(16:48):
I did with water sports, andthat's because from a young age,
from eight years of age, I was alife-saving nipper where my
parents were very much intowater sports, being uh you know,
in Australia we live very closeto water, so my parents saw it
as very important that I'dlearned to swim and be into
water sports.
So that sort of saved me, eventhough I felt again, I felt I
(17:10):
don't like using the wordsubstandard.
I felt like I'd failed that, youknow, even as an Asian, I can't
even do martial arts, you know,and that sat with me with a for
a long time that I think I wasthe token Asian at my school.
I was definitely a token a tokenAsian at my high school that
couldn't do martial arts thatwell because at high school
there were a lot of Asianstudents and they all did
(17:31):
martial arts, and I was the onlyone that didn't do it.
So it was only later in lifethat I sort of realized that I
had some strength, and I usedthe strength of the challenges
in my life to build confidenceand sort of become a bit more
niche, and it was only in laterlife as an adult that I realized
this is actually a really goodthing, and this did help me
navigate through somechallenging times, and it's
(17:53):
constant.
It's it's not a case of it'sjust at school or it's just when
you go to tuitions or it's justwhen you're doing learning.
It's all the time.
I mean, from employment towalking down the street, you
know, I we get stereotyped.
We live in a world ofstereotypes, which is great in
some ways, but I just wishpeople would stop and think
before they they you know speakout.
(18:15):
And unfortunately in the worldof social media, people feel
like they can speak out more andmore and be a bit more abrupt
and offend.
And I think it's a time wherepeople need to just chill out a
little bit and just you know,sit back and just listen more
than they speak.
And I guess I've done it that asI've got older, as I've realized
that hey, you know, uh I'm awater baby, I'm not a martial
(18:35):
artist, and people that want tojudge me, and you know, they
can.
SPEAKER_00 (18:38):
I mean, I they know judge yourselves, tell them to
look in the mirror.
No, and I completely agree withyou.
And people have no room forjudgment because we all have a
million and one whatever, and itdoesn't matter.
Like, I don't care what race youare, it's so unique.
I think the fact that you beingAsian is so amazing.
Like, how cool is that?
I think like Asians are thecoolest people in the world.
(19:01):
Like, you guys are amazing.
Like, and no, I don't I don'tlook at Asians and see martial
arts, but the people that do,then I think to me that they
just see the strength and theAsian community has built, but
it doesn't mean that every Asianidentifies as that or surrounds
themselves with that.
So, you know what?
Middle finger to those people,they need to get a hold of
themselves, and you know, um Iwould say that you um being born
(19:27):
Asian is like the most amazing,incredible thing.
Like God made you perfectly justthe way you are, and you you're
you're amazing.
So I'm gonna stop talking aboutthat because we're not even
gonna give energy to thosepeople, but I do want to let you
know that I completelyunderstand where you come from
because also beingAfrican-American myself and
black and all these things, youknow, and black girl with curly
(19:50):
hair, and it comes with alltypes of stereotypes and
preconceived notions that youcan't be this and that, or you
know, and so you know, it soundslike to me that at a young age
you were holding two differentrealities at once.
The life you were living and themystery of where you came from,
and then the also, well,technically, three different
realities, and then the thepeople's perception of who you
(20:14):
were when they saw you withoutyou even introducing yourself.
And I just want to lean intolike how you showed up to the
outside world and especiallythrough your relationships and
your sense of belonging andunderstanding like who you were.
You were born, like you said, awater baby.
You've been around water allyour life, but you come in as a
teenager deciding, saying, like,I'm gonna learn martial arts
because you wanted to lean intothat.
(20:36):
But I also want to say, like,you don't owe anyone anything.
You never, you don't have to dothat.
You are perfectly great just theway you are.
And if you loved marshmallowsand built marshmallow ports,
then that's who you are, youknow.
Yeah.
But I want to just also say forthe listeners that's listening
in today, like, I know thatwe'll get more on that, and
(20:56):
maybe you can talk to thatperson right now.
How did you get over trying toprove yourself to people the way
that they may have identifiedyou versus to just leaning into
who you truly were and you are?
SPEAKER_02 (21:10):
Yeah, good question.
I think I realized as an adult,and this happened in my early
30s.
I realized that I had to doexactly what you just said.
They're not don't even associatewasting energy and time on
certain people that behave thisway in society.
I'll give you an example.
The crucial factor was this casewhere I went to the doctors.
(21:30):
Not many people that know meknow this story.
I was at the doctor's inAustralia and I was waiting in
the waiting room.
It was a specialist doctor, itwasn't a GP, it was uh it was a
specialist.
And I was the only one in thewaiting room.
And I'm sitting there and hewalked out with his with his
manila folder, his folder, andwalked past me and went, Mr.
Williams, Mr.
(21:50):
Williams, and he looked left andlooked right.
Looked past me, Mr.
Williams, and by the time I'drealised and got up and went,
he'd turned around and gone.
Then I called out, uh uh I'mBarton Williams.
Yes, Barton Williams and heturned around and he he went he
realised he'd made a a uh a amisjudgment and he actually in
(22:11):
and full credit to him, he saidto me, Oh I'm so sorry, I wasn't
expecting you to be Mr.
Williams.
And I was like, Oh, okay.
And I thought for a minute, Ithis can go both ways, you know,
and I I realised, I realised, Ithought, no, that was a you
know, it at the time it shockedme and I I let it ride and and
went through it.
But that was a turning point inmy life as a as a young adult
(22:33):
that made me realise, y you knowwhat?
Some things just have to go theway they are and let them unfold
their white their in their ownunique way.
And if anything, it empowered meso well that I started writing.
And that's ultimately what umgot me through a lot of these.
I you know, I I don't put itdown as trauma, but I I come
back to that analogy I saidabout the bruise.
(22:54):
It's like I've been bumpedagain.
It was a bump of reality to getreality to say, hey, you you are
you are Barton, but to somepeople you're gonna be viewed
differently.
And that gave me the strength tostart my writing.
And you know, I was already ateacher and I'd already, you
know, I've already alreadycommitted to the way that I want
(23:14):
to pass on knowledge and impartmy knowledge onto children.
And I sort of realized afterthese things uh occurring in my
life that I need to write thesedown, and that's what happened.
So I took a a fairly negativeexperience with a doctor and
turned around, spoke to a fewclose friends, and we giggled
(23:34):
about it, but it it made merealize the importance of how,
and you just said it earlier,Carrie, that we shouldn't even
give be giving time to thesepeople and just move on and and
and and use that energy in apositive way.
And I think that's my wholestrength, and that's my whole
mantra, is that you know, I liketo say to myself that I am
powerful, I am effective, youknow, I've got it written down
here, I am effective, I caninfluence and I can help change
(23:58):
people in a positive way.
And I think that's come from theexperience uh experiences I've
had, and I think that'scomplemented beautifully now
physically because I'm taking onphysical challenges as a young
kid, right through to an adultswimming in Lake Michigan.
I've always chosen hard sports.
I was heavily involved inbarefoot water skiing, which is
water skiing with no skis, andyou are crazy.
(24:23):
So yeah, so and I think I thinkI've I think I've taken you know
the challenges physically andemotionally and combined them
and use them in a positive way.
So that that's what I'm about.
SPEAKER_00 (24:35):
That's so impressive.
Wow, when belonging feelsunstable on the inside, you
know, a lot of people I feellike turn to something solid to
hold on to.
But for you, it seems like notonly did you take to writing,
but your body became that anchorfor you.
And now you talk about waterskiing with bare feet.
Oh my goodness.
Like, I love to talk about thatphysical challenge of becoming
of how how that became a part ofyour language of survival, part
(24:59):
of your way to fully loveyourself, a way of you you
saying, like, I'm gonna fully beBart, and this is what Bart is.
So, like, can we go to that?
I wanna talk about like I knowyou mentioned um a lot of things
about like your body, body beingkind of like a teacher for you,
like a bridge.
SPEAKER_02 (25:18):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_00 (25:20):
And you you've done a lot.
You were a junior surflifesaver, right?
At eight.
And then I swimming in LakeMichigan, and then skiing bare
feet.
What drew you to these extremephysical environments?
Like, what was that like bigtransition as that this is what
I want to do?
SPEAKER_02 (25:38):
Yeah, I think I think one of the things that
I've learned over time is tofollow your gut instincts.
And I was very lucky that I wasgiven the ex you know the
exposure to water skiing from ayoung age.
You know, sure I was swimming inthe ocean at eight years of age,
getting you know dumped by wavesas a junior lifesaver.
And I I remember crying andbeing scared, and mum would just
(26:00):
say, You're going to be alright,we're here to support you,
rah-rah, rah.
You know, mum was amazing, mumwas my rock.
But at the same time, I waslearning to water ski as well.
And dad, that was dad's side.
He was he was tough love, youknow.
He's uh he's he's a baby boomer,so it was tough love with dad.
And he would say, Come on, geton the rope, hang on to the ski
rope, and away I'd go and try toski.
(26:21):
And I remember just gettingsmashed and smashed.
And the key, I guess, to anyphysical challenge is the
support network you've got withyou.
And it's that that immersionrule.
I always say, if you hang aroundfive people that do something
great, you'll become the sixthgreat person, you know,
particularly when it comes tophysical activity as well, is
(26:42):
that we we do need support.
And I was lucky I had my myfamily and friends, and I got
into water skiing, and then Iobviously saw someone barefoot
water ski, and then I said, Dad,I want to do that.
And he said, Well, you know, yougotta we're gonna have to have
to learn the right way.
That's how it was it was bred.
I was born uh I guess with thaturge to all right, I want to do
(27:04):
that, and then I met the rightpeople and I learned, but it was
it was hard, it was I took a lotof injuries and hard fools, and
I stuck at it, and then as ayoung adult, I got into it
heavily and bec it it became acompetitive sport, and I was
lucky enough eventually in 2001to make the Australian uh open
squad uh uh in barefoot waterskiing, and we went to Florida
(27:26):
and you know uh I've been I'vebeen very lucky to um to to be
involved at the competitionlevel of a sport that is
generally considered prettytough.
Barefoot water skiing is youused to be considered a
daredevil act.
Uh someone yeah and now it'snatural sport.
SPEAKER_00 (27:44):
I mean I I love water, but I don't know.
Uh yeah, no.
You can have that all day, everyday.
SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
Thank you.
It's a good rush, and I and Ithink that's the the other
thing.
I have a very simple saying thatuh, you know, nothing easy is
great and nothing great is easy,and I've sort of installed that
in my brain, and I've beenquestioned on that a few times,
but uh it's a general rule forme.
Uh anything that's worth puttingeffort into i it returns great
(28:13):
things.
SPEAKER_00 (28:14):
I love that.
Wow.
What happens in your mind whenyou enter this freezing water?
Like, what do you say toyourself?
SPEAKER_02 (28:20):
Yeah, and I guess that's where the next stage of
my life and physical challenges.
I mean, I still water ski, but Idon't I don't compete
competitively in barefoot waterskiing.
But later in life I got intocold water swimming,
particularly during lockdown in2020.
I was living in London, and Iwas very fortunate again at I
talk about the support network,and it's so important that
(28:40):
everyone has a great supportnetwork.
And in lockdown, I was exposedto cold water swit swimming in
in England, in the River Thamesand various rivers and lakes
around England.
And again, the crew I was swimswimming with were saying,
Barton, you're being a bit weak.
I I'd complain that I was coldand not carrying enough fat, and
(29:01):
they'd say, No, just toughen upand you learn how to breathe
properly and you'll be fine.
And then what, three yearslater, you know, uh I managed to
get down to colder and colderwater.
And then what are we now?
It's now 2026.
In the last two years, I'vereally taken it up here in in
Michigan, Lake Michigan inChicago, and the challenge is
(29:22):
it's all about breathing.
You know, you've probably heardof Wim Hof, know the ice
plungers and ice bars and iceshowers.
Cold water lake swimming is anext level again, is because you
are actually swimming, you'vegot to get your breath
controlled, you have to thinkabout how long you've been
exposed to the cold water, letalone the cold air, which is
colder than the water when youget out.
(29:44):
And that's something I reallylearned here in Chicago is that
your cold water exposure, ifyou're not careful, you get
hypother hypothermia and you andyou die.
So it's a lot of science, whichI love science, and I've spoken
to the right people, and so farI haven't had too many injuries,
and it's a great rush.
I mean, it's a beautiful feelingwhen you get cold, but then you
(30:05):
get warm again, and it gives thebody a wonderful, wonderful,
energizing feeling.
SPEAKER_00 (30:10):
Yeah, wow.
How did you discover theconnection between training your
body and training your mind anddoing these levels of sports?
SPEAKER_02 (30:19):
Yeah, I think the the key there is breathing, and
the more I've spoken, and I'vebeen very lucky to live in
England for five years,obviously Australia my whole
life, and then now four years inChicago, I've met some great
athletes along the way and greatcoaches.
And the connection between mindand body is absolutely
proportional when you talk aboutbreathing.
(30:41):
You have to slow yourself down,you have to count, you have to
calm yourself.
And the challenge with iceswimming and cold water exposure
is that you don't want yourheart rate to go too low.
Because what naturally happensphysiologically is when
hypothermia hypothermia kicksin, is your heart rate does slow
down and you don't want it toslow down too much.
(31:02):
So it's a real a real balanceand it's a real mind game that
hey, I've got to calm myselfdown and breathe properly with a
set breathing pattern to get myheart rate to go down enough,
but not too much once I get inthe cold water.
So it's it's a fine balance, andI think that's what I love about
the challenge.
It's not just a physicalchallenge, it's the fact that I
(31:23):
had to have to really think.
I have to think about mybreathing.
I have to be looking at mywatch, and I've got these fancy
goggles called form goggles thatread the time in my goggles.
I can see my heart rate in mygoggles, I can see how long I'm
being exposed to the cold water.
So I've got the right technologyas well.
So it's about having the rightequipment, but that allows me
obviously to make sure that I'mconnected mentally and
(31:46):
physiologically, I can see thatmy heart rate is not going too
low or too high.
SPEAKER_00 (31:51):
Wow.
So we could take a lot fromthat.
Even in everyday life, it'sabout like you're breathing and
slowing your heart rate down.
And even when you're gettinginto cold water or handling
discomfort, like you're trainingyour mind with your breaths and
on how to handle life.
SPEAKER_02 (32:08):
Yeah, I mean, you only have to look at the yogis.
The yogis have been doing it foryears, haven't they?
So, you know, uh breathing isvital.
But if you if you don't have theright mindset, you can't control
that breathing.
And I think that's absolutelycrucial.
SPEAKER_00 (32:20):
Yeah, I love that.
Wow.
As you're describing this, ismaking me think about like how
vital breathing is and how vitalmaking that decision and the
important distinction betweenlike your fast breaths and your
slow down breaths on how longyou can last.
And that brings me into thepoint about resilience, you
know.
I think like resilience for alot of us can um can feel really
(32:44):
daunting when you're in a reallydark situation, you don't know
how long you're gonna be there.
And you're asking yourself, youknow, am I gonna be suffering
for a while or am I gonna beliving in this unknown for a
while or this dual reality for awhile?
When do I, you know, kind of Ifinally choose like going
forward as the only option?
(33:05):
I wanna talk about like what didresilience look like to you in
your journey, you know, fromadoption to this new life to
defining your own identity foryourself to choosing to say, I'm
not a martial artist, I'm awater boy, and I'm gonna succeed
at that and I'm gonna lean moreinto me.
What is that, what does thatlook like in your journey?
(33:26):
I feel like you've done you'vehad a very resilient journey.
SPEAKER_02 (33:29):
Yeah, I mean, resilience to me, first of all,
is is a life, it's a lifelongskill to me.
And that's no scientificbackground there at all.
For me personally, it's alifelong skill which enables me
to navigate through testingtimes.
And we're talking testing times,you know, I think the most
(33:50):
common, the most commonresilience or problems that
people have or testing times areloss of loved ones, loss of job,
relocation, those kinds ofthings, illness, health, they
are the major ones in in modernday life, and I'm generalizing,
but that are going to test us.
And I think what's happened isfor me, because I've had them a
(34:12):
lot of unanswered questions,resilience to me has been
ongoing.
It's it hasn't been an isolatedcase.
And and the way I see it is thatyou are constantly having to
come up with practical things tohelp you go on to the next day.
And I think that's what's beenmy way of life, as far as when I
say I'm resilient.
It's I certainly I accept thefact that I can say, Oh yeah, I
(34:37):
I I am a resilient person, but II like to think more so that I'm
a practical person that's justnavigating through testing
times, you know.
Uh when we lose loved ones,that's been really tough.
It's and it it hurts all thetime.
And and that's a reality thatI've accepted and that we all
have to accept, unfortunately.
But it's people handle itdifferently, don't they?
(34:58):
So for me, I've gone on from dayone from the challenges of not
knowing who my biological motheris.
I've never met her.
I don't know who my biologicaldad is, and I guess that's an
acceptance that's fested overtime, and it's just a curiosity.
It's when it's not curiosity andit's a tough time, I I find that
(35:19):
hard.
Like like a loss of uh mymother.
You know, that's that's uhthat's not curiosity, that
actually happened.
I lost my mother, I lost my youknow I've lost good friends, you
know.
So that's different.
I guess what I'm saying here isthat for me, the key to my
resilience, so to speak, and Iand I don't like losing that
word loosely, the key to menavigating through tough times
(35:42):
has come into several things.
Number one is my networks,whether they're friends or
family, my peers, like as uhwork peers or even teachers, I
still am in contact with acouple of my teachers from high
school.
Um enjoyment and fulfillment forme.
I'm lucky enough to have plentyof physical challenges and
events in my life that I reallyenjoy.
(36:03):
I love going to theatre, I lovegoing to film, I love
exercising, so I get enjoymentand fulfillment.
And the other ones which ismassive for me, again, I have no
scientific data behind this, isreflection.
I've been massive on reflectionin my life, and that comes
through my writing, and I'mabsolutely convinced that has
helped me to become moreresilient.
It's helped me write aboutthings that tough times have
(36:26):
happened, it's helped me writeabout sadness, you know.
At the example when I said aboutthe doctor, you know, misjudging
me and looking for Mr.
Williams, I wrote that into aplay.
So, you know, writing has been agreat source of me dealing with
tough times, and I call that,you know, reflection time,
reflection time.
(36:46):
You know, for me, reflectiontime is writing.
For some people it's talking.
For me, I find it easier to towrite about things and reflect
than I do talking to people,which sounds sounds a bit weird.
SPEAKER_00 (36:57):
No, I love that.
It's like it's amazing.
You've done so much deepinternal work and sitting with
that discomfort, questioning ouridentity, redefining strength,
and then writing about it andnot deciding to just sit there
and at some point all of thatturned outward, not only into
stories.
Like you said, you made a wholeplay, which is fascinating about
the experience that happened atthe doctor's office, which many
(37:19):
people need to watch and tounderstand and to then come back
and question their own realitiesof how they are how they are
showing up in the world.
What are they saying to others,you know?
And I think also you you turnthat into a service, a service
that you're giving to others,you know.
Um I love how you turn this paininto purpose.
And I want to give into yourbook because you're talking
(37:42):
about writing, right?
And what inspired you to write,but what are you?
SPEAKER_02 (37:46):
Yeah, so but what are you came from the the the
actual day?
I remember the day I actuallystarted writing it because in
1997 I was a teacher in NewZealand, and the boy, I still
remember the boy's name.
And in New Zealand, where I wasteaching in South Auckland,
there was a big Polynesian boy.
He's physically as big as me.
(38:06):
I'm I'm I'm not a big guy, youknow, but this boy was big.
He was he was grade five, and hecame up to me and he went and
he's had a strong Samoan accent,and I still remember him as a
beautiful kid, and he said tome, Hey, uh, hey, Mr.
Williams, because they speak sosoftly with their Polynesian
accents, it's a beautifulaccent.
And he goes, Hey Mr.
Williams, but what are you?
Are you Aussie or are youVietnamese?
(38:27):
And then he walked off.
And I was to this day, I waslike, Wow, this kid's grade
five, and he's hit me with aquestion on the first day in
1997 at Papa Toy Toy EastPrimary School, and he said to
me, But what are you?
And I couldn't answer him forthe first ten seconds.
And he walked off and uh afterhe came back after the lesson,
(38:48):
uh another lesson, I said, Tua,I'm an Australian Vietnamese.
And you know, and that that sortof reali made me realize that
question, but what are you?
Was there and you know, I Ithink it's beautiful that uh it
took a grade five primary schoolstudent, elementary student, to
ask such a profound question.
And that allowed me to talk moreabout it, and I remember talking
(39:10):
to the staff about it, and maybethe children there in New
Zealand, because it you knowthere's such a strong Polynesian
culture, maybe they are a bitmore culturally aware and
interested in people'sbackgrounds.
So I started writing a book, andthen over time I felt it wasn't
good enough, and I handed it toa few people that that I
respected in writing, and thenfinally in 2019 it got published
(39:32):
in London and as a children'sbook, and that gave me the
confidence to go, wow, you know,this this story is worthy of
being being told, and it'sbasically the story of a young
boy that gets gets you know itgets told all the time, but what
are you?
Because he grew up in Australia,he was sent to Australia in a
cardboard box.
(39:52):
So it's basically about a boythat uh was adopted from Vietnam
and sent to Australia on acardboard box.
It's obviously autobiographicaland deals with people saying,
But what are you?
But at the end of the day, thepremise of the book shows that
it doesn't matter where you'refrom, it's what's in your heart,
and it's and it's what you loveand what people more
importantly, people love you.
And that's the that's the wholemessage is that your love and
(40:16):
network is more important thanpeople going around saying, But
what are you?
and you can you can't answer it.
So that was in 2019 as achildren's children's book.
And I was I loved going aroundto schools in England and
sharing that story with peoplebecause England is such a
melting pot of cultures, as weknow.
And then in 2024, I'd written aan adult play version of of the
(40:39):
book.
I modified it to a a play and itwas performed.
Yeah, it was performed at theEdinburgh Fringe in Scotland in
2025, my apologies.
202 Yep, so the play, the adultplay was then mounted in
Scotland in 2024 at theEdinburgh Fringe for a month.
And then in 2025, a slightlydifferent version, an Australian
(41:02):
version of the play was written,and that was performed in 2025
last year, and that was calledFragile Handle with Care.
And the first one was called inScotland was called Precious
Cargo, and then hopefully in2026 we might we might be
getting an American version ofthe same story.
SPEAKER_01 (41:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (41:22):
And that's gonna be that's going to be called But
What Are You, and that will bebased off the original book done
in 2019.
So fingers crossed that we'vegot some people interested in uh
mounting that production thisyear in America, and that would
complete the trifecta, goingfrom Scotland to Australia and
finishing in America this year.
So who knows?
SPEAKER_00 (41:42):
Wow, uh who knows?
I think it's gonna happen, okay?
Yeah, why that's impressive.
Why what I find like most forsure, what I find most powerful
is that you're modeling aversion of strength that
includes tenderness andcuriosity and emotional honesty,
and you're giving it to thosethat need it most.
And it's our children, they'rethe most vulnerable.
(42:03):
I, you know, it's like whatyou're doing is so radical in a
lot of places, especially formen to like have this level of
vulnerability and courage toshare their truth and um all
spark from when you wereteaching in New Zealand and a
five-year-old Samoan kid comesup to you and says, What are
you?
And I think that is sobeautiful.
(42:26):
And um, wow, like uh where didyou because when we lean into
this and we talk aboutmasculinity and vulnerability
and courage, especially thesedays, like this is stuff that is
like on the culprit that peopleare discussing, where where did
you learn that strength?
Like that strength should looklike this, or that vulnerability
(42:47):
looks like this, and you tellingyour story.
SPEAKER_02 (42:49):
I think I've learned that over the years, being a
teacher, predominantly a femaledominated profession in
Australia.
Not so sure over here in Americaor in the UK, but definitely in
Australia, when I was goingthrough university in the 90s,
it was predominantly females.
So as a male, I was always aminority as far as speaking up,
(43:12):
and I I definitely had aconnection with children,
particularly boys that areeither very, very hard to
control or very distracted, andI sympathized for them.
So I think that's what'sactually I've connected with
because I feel like them.
It's that I I I totally get it.
I feel and I think I mentionedearlier that that whole square
(43:34):
peg round hole feeling that I'venever really fitted in.
So I feel like if I can impartthat on just one student, just
one student in a classroom of30, then I'm doing my job.
And I think that's always sat inthe back of my head, right
through university as a trainingteacher.
Even when I write, if I can justmake one audience member
(43:56):
resonate with that, then I'vedone my job.
And that's That's the key, isabout it resonating with it.
And I I and I think that's alsobeen a a problem of mine is that
I felt that uh writing a storyor a book about your own life is
very narcissistic, and I wasn'tkeen for that.
And uh it's only in the last tenyears I've realized why didn't I
do this earlier?
(44:17):
Because I'd had it all writtendown.
And then people said to mepeople said to me, No, no, no,
no, no, this story's bigger thanyou.
It's not you've got to shareyour personal side of it to
actually get people tounderstand how big this topic
is, and that we do need to betalking about it, and we do
need, particularly boys, to betalking about their c
insecurities.
SPEAKER_01 (44:38):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (44:38):
You know, their feeling of being around peg in a
square hole, and I love what yousaid earlier, Carrie, is that it
doesn't matter what ethnicity orrace you are, we all have to
acknowledge this stuff.
We all have to speak up and makesure things are being done
right, which is ironic in lightof everything that's happening
that you know in America.
So, you know, and that's why Iit's so important, and that's
(45:00):
why I will continue to keepdoing what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_00 (45:02):
I love that.
I love that so much, and I'm soproud of your courage to speak
up.
And it's so interesting.
You said, you know, like youwere feeling like it would be
narcissistic sharing your ownstory, but your own story is
also so unique, and there's somany people that were in the
same position as you, and thenlike who did you look to, and
where did you find a book thatlooked like that?
(45:23):
And when those books don't existor there are very few far in
between, that's your sign, yourkey sign that someone needs to
hear this, so then you can helpthem push through it sooner or
faster.
And so often I feel like peopleare so afraid to share their
story because of the feeling ofbeing judged by their story or
the feeling of feeling like it'sall about me.
(45:43):
No, if you take the viewpoint ofoff of you and say, who is my
audience that I want to help getthis to, motivate, tell them to
keep going, tell them that theiridentity matters.
That's where the truth lies.
That's where the beauty lies,that's where your story lies.
It doesn't live within us, it'snot about us, it's about others.
(46:04):
And I think like you were notselfish, you were selfless in
deciding to put this book outthere.
So thank you for doing that.
SPEAKER_02 (46:12):
No, thank you.
Yeah, no, you're you're spot on.
And and I think that comes withmature with maturity too.
So maybe I was like a bit ofmaturity to realize that.
SPEAKER_00 (46:21):
It does so much time.
We could be honest, like, youknow, no, like, yeah, you go
through different seasons oflife, and you're right, you do
see things a different way.
And then once you like, I justcrossed over 30, I'm like, ah,
my birthday's tomorrow,actually.
SPEAKER_02 (46:35):
But happy birthday for tomorrow.
SPEAKER_00 (46:39):
Thank you.
And I'm just like, it it's sointeresting because I'm like,
wow, I am a different personthan when I was 21.
I'm like, okay, but no, you'reright.
It does come with maturity.
But I mean, someone's out herelistening to us right now, and
they're they're being inspiredby this conversation and by your
journey.
And I would like to ask yousomething because sometimes it
just does feel overwhelming, youknow, where to begin.
(47:02):
And I want to ground people withsomething practical where they
can take away.
And I think you've left usalready with a lot of that.
But when a person's feelingreally disconnected with their
body, you know, and not fullyknowing their identity or, you
know, redefining their identityfor themselves, what's one small
place that you feel like thatthey can start?
SPEAKER_02 (47:23):
Really good question.
I I personally would be startingwith reflection.
And for me, that would involvepen and paper.
I I'm old school because I'm I'mof that generation.
I'm sure some people would maybeuse their iPhone or a voice
recorder or they'd type.
But for me, personal reflection,it would just start with
(47:45):
personal reflection.
And it I mean, it could be assimple as happy place, find a
happy place and be in that happyplace.
But to do that, you need tobetter write down where your
happy place is, or you just goto it.
So for me, you know, I I heareveryone use this loosely so
much lately, is that whole thewhole write a gratitude diary.
Yeah, I get it, I understandthat.
But if you just write thatroutinely, I think it loses I
(48:11):
don't know.
I I just feel for me,especially, I'm grateful for
this.
It becomes uh not monotonous, itbecomes um lacking true depth
for me.
So I just think uh just write,just write or be in a happy
place.
And for some people it's yoga.
I think yoga is amazing.
I love yoga, um, not only forthe physiological benefits from
(48:34):
a lot of training, but I thinkit's just so good for breathing
and so good for your head to donothing, just to be out of the
zone.
So um so I I find to where tostart where do where where to
start?
I would say in a happy place.
A happy place, and that would befirst of all, discover where is
your happy place because noteveryone knows where their happy
place is.
And if you don't know and youhaven't got a support network,
(48:56):
then you have to find someone tohelp you find that happy place.
Because not everyone has asupport network, you know, not
everyone has a partner or noteveryone has a a friend, but
they may ha know someone thathas a dog, they may know someone
that has a cat, they may knowsomeone that has, you know, that
will listen to them.
So and they might help them tofind where their happy place is.
SPEAKER_00 (49:16):
Yeah, I love that so much.
I want to close this um thispodcast session with bringing
this back to you.
Not the roles you play or thepractices you've done and the
advice you've given, but I thinkthat this is all amazing.
But the person you are now, andI wanted to know, Bart, like if
you could speak to the baby youyou once were, what would you
(49:38):
tell them?
SPEAKER_02 (49:39):
Wow, that's that's a really good question, Carrie.
And I'm getting really withoutgetting too emotional, I'm
getting really strong images.
Um, and I'll send you a copy ofthe documentary.
I did a documentary where theythey filmed me next to a young
child, and and it's the onlyother time I've had that same
feeling.
What would I say?
I would say trust your gutinstincts and never ever stop
(50:02):
loving.
And that can be anything.
That could be love for a person,love for an activity, love for a
belief, love for food, whateveryou choose to love.
I would say trust your guninstant instincts and love.
I would I I think that's what Iwould say to to baby gulling.
I would say just trust yourtrust your gut instincts and
love.
(50:22):
Never stop loving.
That's what I would say.
SPEAKER_00 (50:25):
So beautiful.
Wow.
I love this episode so much.
It's just amazing.
Thank you.
I want to say thank you all somuch for listening to the
Resilience Fowl Podcast today.
And thank you so much for ouramazing ripple, beautiful guest,
Bart, that has shared his uhbeautiful story with us.
If this story resonates withyou, or if you know someone that
(50:47):
could just use uh a virtual hugand to let them know that they
are seen, their story is felt,and to just be inspired, please
send them this episode.
Um, we would love for you tokeep up with Bart in all of his
incredible work.
So as he tours around with hisplays and he competes in water
sports and does incrediblethings.
Bart, how can we stay in contactwith you?
SPEAKER_02 (51:09):
Yeah, sure.
They can check me out onInstagram, which is Barton
C.Williams, or they can visit mywebsite, which is
BartonCWilliams.com.
SPEAKER_00 (51:17):
Perfect.
And we're gonna include those inthe show notes below.
So if you are listening to uswherever you get podcasts, look
at those notes, follow Bart,check it out, and um be kind to
yourself today.
Know that you are truly lovedand that you matter.
And stay tuned for the nextepisode of the Resilience Fouls
(51:38):
Unlocked.
This is your girl, Carrie.
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