February 18, 2026 • 41 mins
Shoppers are about to outsource the hunt. That’s the spark for a candid conversation with Chase Binnie, CEO of RetailWire, on how AI agents, retail media, and marketplaces are rewriting the rules of discovery and growth across the retail ecosystem.
We dig into what happens when search turns into advice and agents make choices for us. Chase lays out why AI adoption is already table stakes, but the real edge comes from what you do with the time and money saved. Auto‑generated creative and product pages will soon be everywhere, which shifts advantage to purpose, positioning, and message clarity. We talk practical steps for becoming “agent‑discoverable,” from enriching product detail pages with usage occasions and outcomes to structuring data so LLMs can match intent to inventory without friction. If you’ve wondered how to win when feeds are flooded by synthetic content, this is your playbook.
Retail media’s high margins take center stage as retailers morph into platforms and push beyond transactions into daily rituals, apps, and connected experiences. We unpack incrementality, cannibalization, and how suppliers can use marketplaces as a low‑risk proving ground before scaling into stores. Chase also challenges the hype cycle with a grounded reminder: stores still command the majority of sales, and rising digital costs are sending brands back to brick‑and‑mortar for better unit economics. Personalization has a limit, and human leadership; clear expectations, culture across generations, and trust at the shelf, remains the differentiator.
You’ll leave with a sharper lens on agentic commerce, LLM‑era SEO, PDP enrichment, retail media strategy, and a pragmatic test‑and‑learn path that de‑risks scale. If discovery is shifting to AI, empathy is now a core strategy. Subscribe, share this episode with a teammate who owns PDPs or retail media, and leave a review with the one change you’ll make this quarter.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
Hello and welcome back to the Retail Journey
Podcast.
I'm one of your hosts, CharlesGreathouse.
And I'm James Harris.
And today we're talking withChase Benny.
And Chase is the CEO of RetailWire and heads up that operation
from right here in Bentonville,Arkansas.
Welcome to the Retail Journey,Chase.
Glad to be here.
I've seen a few of yourepisodes.
(00:31):
I know read a lot of yourarticles.
A lot of your wires.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So for those that haven't, youknow, seen the retail wire or
might not know, tell us aboutit.
SPEAKER_01 (00:41):
So retail wire is where retail discussions happen.
Uh we host panel discussionsevery day that are based on
recent news articles.
So in a way, it's like readingup on what's happening in
retail.
There's a briefing of you knowtop five to ten stories.
So if you're kind of just on thego, you just pull up that email
and see like what's what's thetop you know stories of the day
(01:02):
for retail.
And then you can dive into thosediscussion topics, which we have
a brain trust panel of ofdifferent retail leaders, retail
experts, technology folks thatchime in and comment on that.
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
Awesome.
That's great.
Feels like something we're gonnalink below after this podcast.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Feels like that should happen.
And you've done uh you've done alot of things in this space
before retail wire.
You want to give a little littlepersonal story?
What got you into this space?
What are some things you'reyou've done that you want to
share?
SPEAKER_01 (01:33):
Yeah.
So my background really is a isreally a lot about marketing and
probably media before I realizedit was media.
Um you know, uh, I was uh when Iwas you know in college, I do a
lot of traveling as I've donesome travel journalism,
documenting different, you know,places before it was kind of
like the influencer thing to do.
(01:54):
I, you know, I've owned a fewdifferent small businesses,
everything from you know, uh thehair salons to marketing
agencies to a cleaning copcleaning service.
Uh so as far as like everythingthat I do is framed in through
the angle of really marketing,messaging, like connecting with
(02:16):
people.
And so it was really a few yearsago, uh, when I was looking for
the next thing to jump into, Iwas kind of looking for some
opportunities.
And I saw Retail Wire uh hadbeen around for 21 years.
The founders had started in 2002as as the first retail
discussion forum.
Awesome.
And, you know, I saw what theyhad built, and more than just
(02:40):
like views on a website ornumber of subscribers, I saw a
community of people reallypassionate about you know
sharing their thoughts andhaving thought leadership kind
of hit you know multiple angles.
Yeah, and pretty organically.
Yeah.
Yeah, because I think every yearthere are every I mean every
(03:02):
month almost, there's differentchallenges that hit the
industry.
And just reading headlinesdoesn't get you, you know, what
do people actually think aboutthis?
What do the operators think?
And what do the consultantsthink?
And so just seeing likedifferent different thought
leaders in the space sometimesduke it out, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
Tech versus analog, you know,you got the in retail, you have
(03:26):
the traditionalists who arelike, it's about people, it's
all about people, and then thereyou've got like the whole data
world with it's about data, youknow.
And so I love seeing just uhdifferent points of view.
SPEAKER_00 (03:38):
Yeah.
I like to say data representspeople.
People create data.
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
That those people are they are a number, but you
know, what do you do with that?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:49):
Yeah.
We're obviously fans uh of data,but also fans of people, yeah.
Um, but no, it's fun.
I love that sort of origin storyof seeing something that's well
developed.
When when you think of uh likewhat's on your mind as the the
new not new but CEO of RetailWire, what's the future of of
(04:11):
this kind of forum or thediscussion look like?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:14):
Yeah, there's a theme actually we've been
seeing, which is you know,there's a lot of different
solutions out there.
There's a lot of tech companies.
In fact, like a lot of techcompanies moving into the retail
space, like have their otherverticals and that they're
seeing like a lot happening inretail as retailers become more
like platforms.
(04:34):
Yeah.
Right.
Absolutely.
Um and so what does that bring?
It brings a lot of you knowtechnical knowledge, it brings a
different point of view thantraditional retail, and I think
it brings another challenge of alot of a lot of noise.
Yeah.
So those who are operating, youknow, legacy brands or legacy
(04:58):
retail organizations, it's like,what do we like what do we
believe?
Like, do we need to do this?
Do we need to add AI toeverything and how fast?
And who's the best, you know,team to bring that bring that
in?
SPEAKER_00 (05:14):
Yeah, how to cut through and the noise.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's sort of the guide acrossthe the changing landscape of
retail.
SPEAKER_01 (05:22):
Yeah, it feels like a definitely a push-hole between
the operators in the space.
They have different problemstoo.
They had people they have likejust leadership challenges, you
know, generational things.
Like we had a you go, you go,you go.
Yeah, yeah.
We had uh we had a a a roundtable, a private round table for
(05:45):
brands and retail leaders today.
And you know, there's thechallenges they're facing are
anything from trying to keep upwith the tech and AI all the way
to hey, we have differentexpectations between the
management and our new like GenZ employees.
Gen Z will check out at 5 p.m.
(06:05):
And like there's an expectationthat like you work till you get
it done.
And so even just like differentpeople and culture things and
within an organization, I thinkthose are things that tech can't
really solve you.
SPEAKER_00 (06:21):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, you still need leadershipand management and
accountability and setting thoseexpectations.
If if they don't know theexpectation is to work till it's
done, then yeah, blame it.
Yeah, great.
Yeah, yeah.
And less fun to talk about thanuh AI and all the the things
that seem like new and novel,but are are probably just you
(06:45):
know different from from thechallenges of the past.
Having uh having read um TheWire really uh maybe not quite
since 2002, probably oh four, ohfive is when I first kind of
discovered it.
Um and it's on the weekly cycle,you know, with all the stuff
that's out there, but y'allreally you've been able to stay
(07:05):
relevant through a lot ofchanges in the last you know
20-some years.
Um, but you're you're not justyou know a certain retailer or
you're not just brick andmortar, you're not even like a
trade magazine, you're really atthe intersection of a lot of
different things that itincorporates all that,
incorporates media, incorporatessocial, corporates you know,
(07:27):
changing dynamics on uh iftariffs and things of that
nature come up into sure.
But you're right in kind of thethick of what are the things
that you're seeing, and talkabout whatever you want.
If you want to talk aboutcurrent events, but also what
are you seeing that you think isgoing to be like the future
that's gonna drive the growthfor the next few years that
companies need to be payingattention to?
SPEAKER_01 (07:48):
Uh, really big theme is AI, obviously.
And I think that it's prettywell consensus that like
companies need to adopt AI, thatyou need to use it.
Um there's ways to adopt in amature way, in a way that's like
feasible, and there's sometimesthe top-down leadership.
(08:08):
It's kind of one of thetechnologies that's you know
across the board, like top-downsaying we need to do this, and
then sometimes they push alittle too quick and just throw
it in and uh the company's notready for it.
But the that's gonna be thetable stakes for retail and
brands who are trying to stayahead, is it's not really what
(08:33):
you do with AI.
Um the next thing is what areyou gonna do with that money
saved?
Right?
If you find new efficiencies andyou can get a lot more done, or
uh you can get those things doneum with with agentic you know
tools, what are you going to dowith that spare time?
SPEAKER_00 (08:54):
Yeah, what's the what's the fill then?
Yeah.
It's not that there's less todo.
Most likely, it's like, well,now someone else is gonna be
moving faster.
Yeah.
How are you going to catch up?
How do you see AI really playinga role here in the near future
around advertising specificallyin media?
SPEAKER_01 (09:13):
Um yeah, tricky question.
Um, I think I talked withsomeone today who who just got
back from uh Amazon Accelerate,and they're showing these
features of like you you give ita picture and the AI will just
make your whole product page.
It will make like differentmodels wearing it and stuff.
(09:35):
And while that's you know, asfar as cre creative and you
know, getting product all thethese product images up to up to
a certain standard, which a lotof pages don't have at, it will
become table stakes again.
Right.
And so it's it's kind of likeit's a handicut through that
noise.
Yeah.
(09:56):
Like if you're the first to useit, cool, like you got a lot
more done, you got a lot moreads out there, or you know,
social media content.
Um but now everyone's gonna haveit.
Right.
So uh in in the mix of all this,uh legacy brands are seeing
they're being challenged becauseyounger, you know, emerging
(10:18):
brands can get production doneeasier and quicker, and it's
starting to be almost like okay,we'll all have the capabilities,
but only a few brands willactually dial into a purpose and
a mission and really had acohesive brand.
So that I think was gonna be thechallenging piece.
SPEAKER_00 (10:41):
Because I mean we've already seen like what bots and
some early you know parts of AIdo to discussion boards, to
Twitter, to X, whatever, to thewhere where it just becomes
noise.
And you're like, is this aperson?
Is this a thing?
The dead internet, and how andhow do you stay, how do you stay
out of that noise, but still getyour message across?
(11:02):
Like that's I think that's themillion-dollar question.
SPEAKER_01 (11:06):
The other piece with agentic commerce, and we've got
all these different termsfloating around, but that's kind
of they're define it for in casethey listen to here.
It this will be hard to define,but as of now, agentic commerce
seems to be the word for anycommerce that uses either as a
shopper, I send my AI agent togo find me something and buy it
(11:29):
for me, all the way to the otherside where a retailer would have
an AI agent and likeinterfacing, just like an
associate would, whether that'sonline or a call center or uh
maybe something in person.
Yeah.
Right.
But uh where we're at right nowis like we're starting to get to
that point where uh ChatGBT isthere's some like little leaks
(11:55):
or rumors that there's like aspot where you can keep your
orders, like if you make ordersthrough Chat GBT, um Proplexity
has made uh partnerships withdifferent uh e-commerce
platforms, and there's sort ofthis uh looming event and
rollout that's going on tohappen where we're going to some
(12:16):
people through some productcategories um will start to just
hey, find me, you know, find methis product.
SPEAKER_00 (12:24):
You know all these things about me because I've
trained you on who I am.
Yeah.
Uh and I I did hear maybe abouta year or so ago, the former CEO
of Shopify now works at ChatGPT.
Oh, really?
Yeah, I mean that's so there'sthere's there's more to come,
yeah, I'm sure.
Yeah.
Well yeah, and so retail's jobthen becomes efficient
fulfillment.
And that's kind of what they thejob to be done.
(12:48):
If the search, uh discovery, andselection all happened through
an agent, then that's adifferent job to be done.
Availability for retail sort.
SPEAKER_01 (13:00):
And and then who owns that journey, right?
So Chat GPT knows a lot aboutyou as the shopper, and then
that order comes through, andwill the retailer have any idea
have any idea who they'reserving.
SPEAKER_00 (13:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Shows up as one customer, inwhich case, wow, they bought a
lot of weird combinations ofthings.
They didn't go to any of thosepages, they just bought this
really obscure product.
Yeah.
Or imagine the credit card'sprobably part of it, but sure.
You know, nowadays there'sthere's ways for at least credit
card companies to show a proxyfor your card number, not your
(13:34):
actual card number.
SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
And so that creates the other really uh this piece
is really important is retailersbeing discovered by ChatGPT.
Right, right.
And so this idea of basicallySEO, but in the new era.
Yep.
And in order to actually befound there, your product pages
and all that product data has tobe matching with whatever that
(13:58):
prompt was talking about.
Yeah.
And so there's kind of ascramble now to at retailers and
any D2C brands, and all the wayto supplier because they're
feeding uh this this productinformation is you know, are we
gonna have are we are we gonnabe okay with just the fields we
use now?
Or will there be even morefields that customers are
(14:22):
wanting to know?
SPEAKER_00 (14:24):
I think it's a lot more.
Because you're you get you youstill you have your your
portions that are defining yourproduct.
I think the part we have tostart using is defining the
purchase occasion, the reason,the need state.
Um that I think that the moreintuitive that AI becomes, I
think it's gonna look more tothat than dimensions link.
(14:44):
It's about the problem you'resolving, yeah.
The solution you're trying tocreate, the usage occasions that
you know a particular product iswell fit for, because that's the
thing that the customersactually like what's behind the
shopping list, you know?
Yeah.
Is it just weekly replenishmentto keep my family alive, or is
it like Taco Tuesday?
Yeah.
Um, and if I'm gonna throw aTaco Tuesday, then great, do I
(15:07):
need to have Taco Tuesdaysomewhere on my PDP?
Like, what's then is required?
So chat knows uh that this ishow I'm gonna go find it.
Yeah, yeah.
Um yeah, this this thistablecloth is great for Taco
Tuesday night.
You're gonna you're gonna beglad you have it.
Yeah, clean up.
It's an interesting kind ofconversation because at least
(15:30):
where we're at right now, techis driving this, right?
AI, if AI didn't exist, wewouldn't be having this
particular conversation.
But at the same time, brands,retailers, they're chasing the
consumer, right?
So the consumer's starting toadapt.
There's more tech that's goingto come in that will be adapted.
Like we're in a very, veryevolving time frame right now
(15:52):
for retail.
Um are you have you seenanything around consumers of
where they're really starting toadopt this, or are we very early
stage?
SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
There are definitely some numbers out about consumers
using ChatGBT.
I'm saying that, but it could beperplexity icon.
Yes, yeah.
Um, and speaking of Gemini, ifyou've searched in Google
lately, like most of the thingsI search have a whole section of
info at the top.
Yeah.
Like with Layout.
(16:27):
Yeah.
And it's like I didn't ask forthat, but that's what's
happening.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:30):
Like across the I didn't ask, but how'd you know
it's what I wanted?
But it's also a lot moreintuitive than just the search
results.
Yeah.
So yeah, you got to trust thoseblue links and go to the site.
Yeah.
And it's like you're it is as aconsumer a total brain flip.
Yep.
In you know, prompting versusquerying.
Yes.
(16:50):
There's a there's a journeythere, and that's that's
necessary as you mentioned, youknow, large CPGs or retailers
trying to adopt AI.
There's this whole shift inokay, how do I prompt well?
This is a whole different skillset.
I'm sure college students today,there's going to be a course
like truly about prompting.
(17:11):
Yeah.
Uh what's what's that look like?
How do you do it well?
But then um, so it's it's onboth sides, both the the
retailers and brands and theconsumer trying to figure out
where this is.
Who who's doing it really wellfrom your point of view?
Oh, uh effective utilization ofAI.
Who's prompting really well?
I would say that's fair.
(17:32):
I don't have to let me adjust myprompt.
Um forgive me.
Um on the the brand or retailerside, like who is best
positioned from your worldviewto take advantage of this
complete shift in traffic?
SPEAKER_01 (17:52):
Well, it tends to be right now that they're going the
trustworthy websites.
So it's the the the initialrollout has been like who's
getting cited in in AI.
And it's overwhelmingly like thetop top news publishers, yeah,
largest traffic, largesttraffic, like they're really
going after just who'sessentially the top SEO result
(18:16):
and the best coming authority.
Um, and I do talk with a lot oflike smaller brands that aren't
Walmart or aren't you know havethat established, uh, which
they're saying.
Who did what did you see aLinkedIn post about that?
I did about referral traffic inWalmart.
SPEAKER_00 (18:33):
I think it was like there's more traffic coming
through Chat GPT um than thereis on Walmart.com.
Wow.
For a particular category.
It's like, yeah, no, it's theshift is happening.
Yeah.
And it's not doesn't mean it'swhere they're converting or how
they're converting, because halfthe time there isn't a link
within, you know, you're notactually using uh your agent to
(18:55):
make the purchase, but it's tomake the decision, then perhaps
separating, but that's friction.
unknown (19:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:02):
And technology's great at removing friction.
And something I just have tothink is like you know, 2.0 or
you know, 1.2 is paying to beseen, like paying the the AI
engines to be the result, right?
Like that's got to become ayeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:21):
I think that's a pretty revenue line, right?
Pretty big uh question now ofjust the bias that might be
baked in.
And you just addressed one ofthe biases, which was if you
don't know, guess.
And that was how they programmeduh JatGBT, just like multiple
choice.
If you're like, I don't know, A,B, C, or D, I'm just gonna at
(19:41):
least have a chance.
Uh, they program it that way, Ithink so there'd be some answers
there for you.
But that's a hallucination.
Yeah, you all know that.
SPEAKER_00 (19:50):
So whereas when Siri says I don't know, it's like
come on, Siri.
Try harder.
Someone else.
Chat was gonna give you ananswer, but they might not know
yet.
SPEAKER_01 (19:59):
Yeah, it might not be right.
Uh yeah, I think there's a lot,uh, a lot out there as far as
like future predictions of howmany people will start to use it
and you know what what it meansfor shopping.
Um, but coming back to some ofthe truth isms that Mono, like e
(20:20):
commerce has kind of capped outin that 20-something percent of
all you know, shopping, whereas80, you know, around 80% is
still in store.
So I find that all lot of thisstuff about online AI, it's like
it's still playing in thatsmaller piece of the pie.
SPEAKER_00 (20:40):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's why I think we'restill we're very early on into
this, into this evolution.
And yeah, I mean, who knows thefuture, right?
We could hallucinate andspeculate about that all day.
You mentioned something earlier.
You said you were in mediabefore it was media.
You know, we we we're in a worldnow where retail media is
becoming much more table stakes.
(21:02):
Uh, maybe before we get intolike your your learnings, your
findings, yeah, how would youdefine, describe retail media?
SPEAKER_01 (21:10):
Uh the simplest way, because we're a retail media
publisher.
Right.
So I have to actually not sayretail media in sequence.
Yeah, I have to say we're retailhistory publication.
Yeah.
Um, because retail media in thisindustry is it's it's the ads on
the retail website or in store.
(21:32):
It's it's the paid, the paidplacement of you know, boosting
your product at the top, evenall the way to end caps and
it'll display screens in thestore.
There's a lot more, I guess,deals uh between brands and
retail than I think a lot ofconsumers realize when there's
like a huge like Super Bowldisplay or whatever.
(21:52):
Like it I growing up, I thought,oh, they just try to sell more
Pepsi, you know?
Yeah.
But you know.
peeling back the veil, there'sthere's a lot of opportunity for
brands to like take it, youknow, get their get their
product placed in ways that theywant.
Um so in a nutshell I I kind ofsimplify it to like my family
(22:16):
and friends who aren't in thespace.
Just oh it's it's ads.
Yeah.
Right?
It's paying for paying for yourproduct to be to be boosted or
placed or whatnot.
Yeah.
Uh do you is is that a commontopic on the wire?
Huge huge and what we've seen ofcourse this is great prompts.
SPEAKER_02 (22:39):
Nice.
SPEAKER_00 (22:39):
I mean this stuff that we we talk about uh weekly
or sometimes you know daily itseems like uh this year has been
very tough for margins friendsand retailers uh wherever you're
at in the supply chain umbetween you know tariffs and
inflation you're seeing justrazor thin margins or negative
(23:02):
yeah we just have to you knowsell anyway and so like if a
retailer sells another hundredproducts of at that rate like it
may not be much game but I Ithink that retail media there's
a big push for it right nowbecause it is a a high margin
product you could say and youknow it it gives retailers
(23:27):
another rep revenue stream thatcould be really beneficial for
the brands um especially youknow you know we've talked about
just the valuation of a of thecompany itself you know having
having another dollar in to theretail media uh you know that's
pretty much bottom line yeahthat alternative income uh line
(23:51):
item has grown yeah with everymajor retail platform yeah and
that's there's still usealternative alternative income
yeah generally speaking itdepends on how it's how it's
done but that's uh when you whenyou look at the earnings reports
you look at the final releaseslike that's the the actual PL
(24:13):
line to note and you bothmentioned platform now um and
knowing that you know Amazon hasprime Walmart acquired Visio
last year so retail media isgoing to continue to evolve
let's kind of go into that thatretailer is a platform you know
how is that how's that benefitone versus another how are
(24:36):
consumers engaging with thathow's it impacting shopping
behavior yeah I think thatyou're seeing this world of
media entertainment who used tosell ads to brands and retailers
and now retail is like well likeyou're spending a lot of money
to like you know get on TV andwhy don't we just buy the TPD
(25:00):
like no um put out our own kindof entertainment and media or
create partnerships.
SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
And um I think there's a lot about even just
creating ritual around usinglet's say for the the Walmart
app for example I had it on myphone and yeah if I fill up gas
even if it's not like a Walmartstation I like hey I can get a
discount so I pull up my app Imight actually scroll a little
(25:28):
bit on the app and see what elseis there while I'm filling up
the gas.
Yeah and so there's I thinkthere's a mindset for retailers
to be you know more I guess moreinvolved in our lives and
provide more value beyond justthe transactional.
Yeah a little more ubiquitous uhjust interact with it you know
(25:54):
it's not just store it's notjust going to the website
anymore it's yeah much moreinvolved there's just more
opportunities to connect umthere was uh a a a post by uh
founder of Ridge Wallet and heuh he said uh of course it was a
hook to get you to read the postbut he said e-commerce dead and
he all the agnostic commerceyeah the omni channel is kind of
(26:19):
this we're we use that term butcustomers don't really think of
channels and especially likeyounger consumers they're just
they don't really differentiatebetween online and in in store
it's the same entity it's thesame brand so agnostic commerce
I don't know if that term willstick uh if she was just for
(26:41):
that post kind of by a sensethis idea that I mean customers
they'll they'll shop whereverthey are whether it's you know
online in store on a TikTokmaybe they're watching uh you
know watching their favoritemovie and or you know there's an
ad and a little Q bar code rightum so there are so many places
(27:04):
that you could buy now and Ithink that that's something that
a lot of retailers are thinkingabout now.
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
Yeah there's and there's there's in-game buy is
something I've seen recentlywhere they have a collection of
games it's one kind of platformyou earn points throughout the
game and then there's an inin-game shop where you don't
even have to leave the game tobuy the thing that you're seeing
there's something that you knowmight be interested to you cool.
(27:32):
Yeah like physical products yeahoh yeah yeah not just the outfit
for jersey one that you can yeahyou can then take home something
that exists yeah yeah yeah nothat's interesting with in the
the brands and suppliersmanufacturers that you you talk
to in this sort of retail spacewhere's their mindset in in uh
(27:58):
treating e treating retail as aplatform as opposed to stuck in
store really only concernedabout growing store e-commerce
is the other thing like how'show are you seeing that evolve?
SPEAKER_01 (28:12):
There's definitely a pressure to if you're a supplier
brand I think D to C is anothercomponent yeah you know when
you're selling through the mainretail channels there's a
pressure to use some you knowbuy some more retail media to
build that relationship and andget in there.
(28:35):
And I think there's a little bitof overwhelm happening with like
channel management.
You know, between emergingbrands they might start with
just Walmart marketplace andAmazon marketplace and that's
all they can really manage.
But there are so many otherplaces it's so it's it's
(28:55):
fragmented.
Yeah if you're really going tospend some ads you you really
want to spin up another 10retailers and and and and carry
that management cost of keepingthose relationships and making
sure you know all the dirtthings going right on top of
that you know some form of adashboard of everything that's
(29:18):
happening and which whichchannels are are helping and
which ones might becannibalizing other ones.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:25):
And what consumer segment is really leaning on one
versus another and getting thatuh that better understanding of
consumer.
Uh have you seen certain thingswork really well for suppliers
that have decided to to movee-com penetration in their
business from you know singledigit into closer to that 20 or
(29:47):
above 20 to outperform?
Single digit e-commercepenetration versus store.
I mean obviously we play a lotin the Walmart and Sam's world
and that's where we are sothat's kind of where I'm
picturing people coming in andgetting into Walmart stores
massive massive win gettingWalmart.com it there's a wide
(30:12):
array of opinions on like ohthis is amazing I can't believe
it to like yeah yeah I've got away bigger business on Amazon.
It's like well yeah and what ittakes to succeed there is
different than what it takes tosee succeed with Walmart and
most don't quite understand thatyet so I'm just curious of those
that maybe in your journey orwhat you've seen that have
(30:33):
successfully gone from like heywe were really under penetrated
and now we're actuallyoverpenetrated online and and
how that journey unfolded.
SPEAKER_01 (30:42):
I don't know if I have a direct uh you know direct
your case for that um but ingeneral it's it's it seems like
the the term incrementalitycomes into play a lot and
because you know you you'regonna put effort into adding
another channel and you wantedto do something.
Do right uh and uh I think sinceWalmart has opened up
(31:06):
Marketplace it's kind of given Ithink a little bit of a gray
area for like a lot of peoplewhere it's like okay you're on
Walmart but you're you know ifyou're in the marketplace it's
kind of a step towardpotentially you know showing
that we can make sales here andwhen you finally get to like
pitching to buyers at toactually get in stores then you
(31:29):
have this track record.
Yeah data in their yeah theirhouse so to speak.
SPEAKER_00 (31:33):
So whether it's their most profitable channel or
whether they're selling at themargins they want to, I think
that's what I've heard recentlywith brands looking to really
get into it is still let's atleast get your foot in the door
and just start getting you knowgetting even just getting used
to the way of operating we'dadvise our clients on that if
(31:55):
they're you know they're not inanything and we're we're talking
about approach and talking aboutstrategy and what the right
assortment is, we'll say okay wewe can have a meeting in three
months let's go ahead and getstarted on the marketplace
because that's going to come uplike yeah are you on our
marketplace we could say yesversus uh no I'll I'll look into
that yeah and those that are alittle bit you know further
(32:15):
ahead that it's a it's a verysmart pre-sale tactic yeah of
like yeah grow that businessgrow it effectively and truly
iterate learn understand yourcustomer because you're now
talking to Walmart's customernot just your D2C and that
analogy is easier to bridge uhfor a Walmart merchant of okay
(32:39):
if you did this in marketplaceyou'll do this in store uh there
are some merchants that arelooking at it as like okay you
know if we're selling mugs uh Icarry these mugs in store these
are only online but those onlineare outperforming my in-store
items online it's equal playingfield if I flip that and bring
the online only that'soutperforming Apple to apple
(33:01):
will it outperform in store aswell you know there's a there's
quite a bit of pressure on ifyou know Apple to Apple online
this thing is winning it's whatshould be in store not just
whatever happened already bethere.
It's also a great way to avoidcostly mistakes.
For a company to launch into anational retailer and it not
(33:22):
work but it could have workedhad we done this color, this
gems, this whatever you couldlearn this that's what you know
that's uh whether it's firstparty feedback or reviews uh
that's a that's a relativelyinexpensive way to learn what
you need to change about yourproduct before you go big.
SPEAKER_01 (33:39):
Do you find brands trying and going too big and
going too you know too manystories all at once.
SPEAKER_00 (33:47):
Oh sure I mean when you're ready it happens
sometimes it happens yeah it itprobably happens a little bit
less uh at least within ourclient basically to done this
for a long time and we've seenyou know that how how it can go
sideways and sometimes it's justthe littlest thing or it didn't
quite have the right amount ofpeople handling the orders for
execution implementation.
(34:10):
Or your packaging didn't reallyarticulate yeah the value prop
of your item and you didn't youdidn't have to face that when
you're a D2C because you've gotall this additional real estate
to talk about it.
But that you know four secondsat shelf in a fluorescent lit
you know very competitive spaceis really hard to to simulate
but online you can test iteratea B test try and see what
(34:36):
changes to that package areactually going to show up in
store I think there's a reasonASOP wrote the tortoise in the
hair right like sometimes itpays off to go a little slower
right early on before you reallyput a foot on the gas.
So as we uh we sort of move on Ithink the retail wire going to
be a really helpful tool forthose that are wanting to know
(34:58):
where conversations are inretail to give us like the most
interesting thing that you'reseeing right now that is
exciting the most excitingconversation you're having right
now in the topic of retail whatwould it be?
SPEAKER_01 (35:13):
Covered some of them with the AI and adjunctive
commerce that's a reallybuzzworthy topic for sure um
there's a lot of excitementaround in-store retail yeah it's
just it's you know maybe it'sboring right compared to all the
what the the the entire you knowworld of tech is is pushing it
(35:38):
still is the main blitz.
Yeah and still the gorilla youknow this I think the for me and
a really interesting topic isabout how far will
personalization go before peoplesay stop personalizing so much
right and just show me what youhave um in general it just seems
(36:01):
like yeah there's so much pushfrom the tech side to implement
all of these things um and thenuts and bolts of like what
works in retail is so human.
Yeah it's so it's unintrical toour psychology our biology who
we are yeah and I don't I thinkthere will come a time where
(36:26):
some will will realize like thatamount of data like we have to
decide what is the useful datathat we want to use.
SPEAKER_00 (36:36):
But so what actually should have stopped a few data
points ago.
Yeah.
Because we're good.
SPEAKER_01 (36:41):
Yeah yeah and and a lot still already is really a
great equalizer yeah for surethat's where people they're in
their full they're not just likeone little screen scrolling and
uh making impulse purchases oryou know kind of separate from
like their full sense senses.
Um I think in store in fact onour roundtable this morning um
(37:05):
one of the fashion brands he wassaying that just the the cost of
actually making online work asjust a straight e-commerce brand
in fashion he's like a lot of usare moving to in store like it
actually just it works better asfar as cost you'd think it's
you'd think it'd be like cheaperyou know and more effective just
(37:27):
run lean on an e-commerce storebut he's saying it's just it's
hard to cut through it's gettingreally costly um and and
in-store is something that'sjust a time tested proven yep
method.
SPEAKER_00 (37:40):
I think that's a great and there's an experience
to picking your things up yeah Ido like that we're we're we'll
we'll kind of wrap on that thatyou know we we really start out
with the agentec the the all thenew uh but there's still a lot
of stores and a lot of peopleshopping in them and at the end
of the day you know whether it'somni whether it's agnostic it's
(38:01):
all those things and we just gotto follow the consumer at where
they want to go.
Love it you want to take usthrough the lightning yeah we
got a lightning round we like todo a little a little something
fast.
SPEAKER_01 (38:10):
The first one's real easy what's your greatest
failure in business oh my goshthat's a really easy you're
welcome or just one of thethings what is yeah trying to
think of like a straight failurebut I think the theme of failure
for me is just probably takingon taking on things that were
(38:32):
just too big or too I bumpedinto something.
Yeah triggered out later andthat's it's worked for a lot of
my life yeah there are timeswhere it's like later kidding an
opportunity just because it'sthere oh yeah and it it doesn't
mean you're you will it willwork out.
Love that times no just say yesum last 12 months um biggest
(38:56):
thing you've learned yeah as aas a CEO as a business person
I've been a lot of my focus hasbeen on on just understanding
the retail industry what'shappening um I would say it's
gonna be kind of cliche buthuman connection right like in
(39:22):
any industry whether you thinkthat it's just back to that
thing about data it's just yeahthere's a bunch of data here's a
bunch of people and if I wantedto connect with you know a
thousand people with thatcertain job title great but
ultimately it does come down toa human connection with yeah
that yeah and that unscalablepart it while everybody's
(39:44):
talking about you know sendingall your AI agents to talk to
everybody and do all yournetworking for you it's like
there's an unscalable part thatjust I don't think will ever go
away.
Totally yeah all right thisone's a little bit of a trap but
like where what are you readingkind of content are you into I
am I've got a couple books I'mreading one is about the like
(40:09):
the history backstory of open AIso that's called the Empire of
AI.
SPEAKER_00 (40:15):
Yeah very interesting yeah I'm like yeah
it's back when Elon Musk waspart of it.
SPEAKER_01 (40:21):
Is it deepening your trust or um yeah I don't know uh
let me know when you get to okayget to the end I get uh juicy
and I think probably a good goodsegue for the rap is like okay
where do people find you how doI sign up yeah so I'm I'm pretty
active on LinkedIn so people canfind me there just connect um
and we host live stream uh forpublic live streams with
(40:44):
different tech leaders anddifferent retail leaders um and
then we're also hosting thosethose private roundtables for
brands that just want to talk inkind of a space where it's like
you're free to say what yeah noncompetitive we're all needed at
times so yeah yeah it's awesomeum but retailwire.com is where
people can find our publicationsign up for the newsletter and
(41:05):
get kind of updates of when thenext events are fantastic that's
great thank you so much forjoining us and thank you for uh
tuning in uh you can find all ofour podcasts wherever you get
your podcasts are on YouTube oron our website at
highimpactanalytics dot com.
SPEAKER_00 (41:23):
Thank you
Hello and welcome back to the Retail Journey
Podcast.
I'm one of your hosts, CharlesGreathouse.
And I'm James Harris.
And today we're talking withChase Benny.
And Chase is the CEO of RetailWire and heads up that operation
from right here in Bentonville,Arkansas.
Welcome to the Retail Journey,Chase.
Glad to be here.
I've seen a few of yourepisodes.
(00:31):
I know read a lot of yourarticles.
A lot of your wires.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So for those that haven't, youknow, seen the retail wire or
might not know, tell us aboutit.
SPEAKER_01 (00:41):
So retail wire is where retail discussions happen.
Uh we host panel discussionsevery day that are based on
recent news articles.
So in a way, it's like readingup on what's happening in
retail.
There's a briefing of you knowtop five to ten stories.
So if you're kind of just on thego, you just pull up that email
and see like what's what's thetop you know stories of the day
(01:02):
for retail.
And then you can dive into thosediscussion topics, which we have
a brain trust panel of ofdifferent retail leaders, retail
experts, technology folks thatchime in and comment on that.
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
Awesome.
That's great.
Feels like something we're gonnalink below after this podcast.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Feels like that should happen.
And you've done uh you've done alot of things in this space
before retail wire.
You want to give a little littlepersonal story?
What got you into this space?
What are some things you'reyou've done that you want to
share?
SPEAKER_01 (01:33):
Yeah.
So my background really is a isreally a lot about marketing and
probably media before I realizedit was media.
Um you know, uh, I was uh when Iwas you know in college, I do a
lot of traveling as I've donesome travel journalism,
documenting different, you know,places before it was kind of
like the influencer thing to do.
(01:54):
I, you know, I've owned a fewdifferent small businesses,
everything from you know, uh thehair salons to marketing
agencies to a cleaning copcleaning service.
Uh so as far as like everythingthat I do is framed in through
the angle of really marketing,messaging, like connecting with
(02:16):
people.
And so it was really a few yearsago, uh, when I was looking for
the next thing to jump into, Iwas kind of looking for some
opportunities.
And I saw Retail Wire uh hadbeen around for 21 years.
The founders had started in 2002as as the first retail
discussion forum.
Awesome.
And, you know, I saw what theyhad built, and more than just
(02:40):
like views on a website ornumber of subscribers, I saw a
community of people reallypassionate about you know
sharing their thoughts andhaving thought leadership kind
of hit you know multiple angles.
Yeah, and pretty organically.
Yeah.
Yeah, because I think every yearthere are every I mean every
(03:02):
month almost, there's differentchallenges that hit the
industry.
And just reading headlinesdoesn't get you, you know, what
do people actually think aboutthis?
What do the operators think?
And what do the consultantsthink?
And so just seeing likedifferent different thought
leaders in the space sometimesduke it out, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
Tech versus analog, you know,you got the in retail, you have
(03:26):
the traditionalists who arelike, it's about people, it's
all about people, and then thereyou've got like the whole data
world with it's about data, youknow.
And so I love seeing just uhdifferent points of view.
SPEAKER_00 (03:38):
Yeah.
I like to say data representspeople.
People create data.
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
That those people are they are a number, but you
know, what do you do with that?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:49):
Yeah.
We're obviously fans uh of data,but also fans of people, yeah.
Um, but no, it's fun.
I love that sort of origin storyof seeing something that's well
developed.
When when you think of uh likewhat's on your mind as the the
new not new but CEO of RetailWire, what's the future of of
(04:11):
this kind of forum or thediscussion look like?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:14):
Yeah, there's a theme actually we've been
seeing, which is you know,there's a lot of different
solutions out there.
There's a lot of tech companies.
In fact, like a lot of techcompanies moving into the retail
space, like have their otherverticals and that they're
seeing like a lot happening inretail as retailers become more
like platforms.
(04:34):
Yeah.
Right.
Absolutely.
Um and so what does that bring?
It brings a lot of you knowtechnical knowledge, it brings a
different point of view thantraditional retail, and I think
it brings another challenge of alot of a lot of noise.
Yeah.
So those who are operating, youknow, legacy brands or legacy
(04:58):
retail organizations, it's like,what do we like what do we
believe?
Like, do we need to do this?
Do we need to add AI toeverything and how fast?
And who's the best, you know,team to bring that bring that
in?
SPEAKER_00 (05:14):
Yeah, how to cut through and the noise.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's sort of the guide acrossthe the changing landscape of
retail.
SPEAKER_01 (05:22):
Yeah, it feels like a definitely a push-hole between
the operators in the space.
They have different problemstoo.
They had people they have likejust leadership challenges, you
know, generational things.
Like we had a you go, you go,you go.
Yeah, yeah.
We had uh we had a a a roundtable, a private round table for
(05:45):
brands and retail leaders today.
And you know, there's thechallenges they're facing are
anything from trying to keep upwith the tech and AI all the way
to hey, we have differentexpectations between the
management and our new like GenZ employees.
Gen Z will check out at 5 p.m.
(06:05):
And like there's an expectationthat like you work till you get
it done.
And so even just like differentpeople and culture things and
within an organization, I thinkthose are things that tech can't
really solve you.
SPEAKER_00 (06:21):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, you still need leadershipand management and
accountability and setting thoseexpectations.
If if they don't know theexpectation is to work till it's
done, then yeah, blame it.
Yeah, great.
Yeah, yeah.
And less fun to talk about thanuh AI and all the the things
that seem like new and novel,but are are probably just you
(06:45):
know different from from thechallenges of the past.
Having uh having read um TheWire really uh maybe not quite
since 2002, probably oh four, ohfive is when I first kind of
discovered it.
Um and it's on the weekly cycle,you know, with all the stuff
that's out there, but y'allreally you've been able to stay
(07:05):
relevant through a lot ofchanges in the last you know
20-some years.
Um, but you're you're not justyou know a certain retailer or
you're not just brick andmortar, you're not even like a
trade magazine, you're really atthe intersection of a lot of
different things that itincorporates all that,
incorporates media, incorporatessocial, corporates you know,
(07:27):
changing dynamics on uh iftariffs and things of that
nature come up into sure.
But you're right in kind of thethick of what are the things
that you're seeing, and talkabout whatever you want.
If you want to talk aboutcurrent events, but also what
are you seeing that you think isgoing to be like the future
that's gonna drive the growthfor the next few years that
companies need to be payingattention to?
SPEAKER_01 (07:48):
Uh, really big theme is AI, obviously.
And I think that it's prettywell consensus that like
companies need to adopt AI, thatyou need to use it.
Um there's ways to adopt in amature way, in a way that's like
feasible, and there's sometimesthe top-down leadership.
(08:08):
It's kind of one of thetechnologies that's you know
across the board, like top-downsaying we need to do this, and
then sometimes they push alittle too quick and just throw
it in and uh the company's notready for it.
But the that's gonna be thetable stakes for retail and
brands who are trying to stayahead, is it's not really what
(08:33):
you do with AI.
Um the next thing is what areyou gonna do with that money
saved?
Right?
If you find new efficiencies andyou can get a lot more done, or
uh you can get those things doneum with with agentic you know
tools, what are you going to dowith that spare time?
SPEAKER_00 (08:54):
Yeah, what's the what's the fill then?
Yeah.
It's not that there's less todo.
Most likely, it's like, well,now someone else is gonna be
moving faster.
Yeah.
How are you going to catch up?
How do you see AI really playinga role here in the near future
around advertising specificallyin media?
SPEAKER_01 (09:13):
Um yeah, tricky question.
Um, I think I talked withsomeone today who who just got
back from uh Amazon Accelerate,and they're showing these
features of like you you give ita picture and the AI will just
make your whole product page.
It will make like differentmodels wearing it and stuff.
(09:35):
And while that's you know, asfar as cre creative and you
know, getting product all thethese product images up to up to
a certain standard, which a lotof pages don't have at, it will
become table stakes again.
Right.
And so it's it's kind of likeit's a handicut through that
noise.
Yeah.
(09:56):
Like if you're the first to useit, cool, like you got a lot
more done, you got a lot moreads out there, or you know,
social media content.
Um but now everyone's gonna haveit.
Right.
So uh in in the mix of all this,uh legacy brands are seeing
they're being challenged becauseyounger, you know, emerging
(10:18):
brands can get production doneeasier and quicker, and it's
starting to be almost like okay,we'll all have the capabilities,
but only a few brands willactually dial into a purpose and
a mission and really had acohesive brand.
So that I think was gonna be thechallenging piece.
SPEAKER_00 (10:41):
Because I mean we've already seen like what bots and
some early you know parts of AIdo to discussion boards, to
Twitter, to X, whatever, to thewhere where it just becomes
noise.
And you're like, is this aperson?
Is this a thing?
The dead internet, and how andhow do you stay, how do you stay
out of that noise, but still getyour message across?
(11:02):
Like that's I think that's themillion-dollar question.
SPEAKER_01 (11:06):
The other piece with agentic commerce, and we've got
all these different termsfloating around, but that's kind
of they're define it for in casethey listen to here.
It this will be hard to define,but as of now, agentic commerce
seems to be the word for anycommerce that uses either as a
shopper, I send my AI agent togo find me something and buy it
(11:29):
for me, all the way to the otherside where a retailer would have
an AI agent and likeinterfacing, just like an
associate would, whether that'sonline or a call center or uh
maybe something in person.
Yeah.
Right.
But uh where we're at right nowis like we're starting to get to
that point where uh ChatGBT isthere's some like little leaks
(11:55):
or rumors that there's like aspot where you can keep your
orders, like if you make ordersthrough Chat GBT, um Proplexity
has made uh partnerships withdifferent uh e-commerce
platforms, and there's sort ofthis uh looming event and
rollout that's going on tohappen where we're going to some
(12:16):
people through some productcategories um will start to just
hey, find me, you know, find methis product.
SPEAKER_00 (12:24):
You know all these things about me because I've
trained you on who I am.
Yeah.
Uh and I I did hear maybe abouta year or so ago, the former CEO
of Shopify now works at ChatGPT.
Oh, really?
Yeah, I mean that's so there'sthere's there's more to come,
yeah, I'm sure.
Yeah.
Well yeah, and so retail's jobthen becomes efficient
fulfillment.
And that's kind of what they thejob to be done.
(12:48):
If the search, uh discovery, andselection all happened through
an agent, then that's adifferent job to be done.
Availability for retail sort.
SPEAKER_01 (13:00):
And and then who owns that journey, right?
So Chat GPT knows a lot aboutyou as the shopper, and then
that order comes through, andwill the retailer have any idea
have any idea who they'reserving.
SPEAKER_00 (13:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Shows up as one customer, inwhich case, wow, they bought a
lot of weird combinations ofthings.
They didn't go to any of thosepages, they just bought this
really obscure product.
Yeah.
Or imagine the credit card'sprobably part of it, but sure.
You know, nowadays there'sthere's ways for at least credit
card companies to show a proxyfor your card number, not your
(13:34):
actual card number.
SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
And so that creates the other really uh this piece
is really important is retailersbeing discovered by ChatGPT.
Right, right.
And so this idea of basicallySEO, but in the new era.
Yep.
And in order to actually befound there, your product pages
and all that product data has tobe matching with whatever that
(13:58):
prompt was talking about.
Yeah.
And so there's kind of ascramble now to at retailers and
any D2C brands, and all the wayto supplier because they're
feeding uh this this productinformation is you know, are we
gonna have are we are we gonnabe okay with just the fields we
use now?
Or will there be even morefields that customers are
(14:22):
wanting to know?
SPEAKER_00 (14:24):
I think it's a lot more.
Because you're you get you youstill you have your your
portions that are defining yourproduct.
I think the part we have tostart using is defining the
purchase occasion, the reason,the need state.
Um that I think that the moreintuitive that AI becomes, I
think it's gonna look more tothat than dimensions link.
(14:44):
It's about the problem you'resolving, yeah.
The solution you're trying tocreate, the usage occasions that
you know a particular product iswell fit for, because that's the
thing that the customersactually like what's behind the
shopping list, you know?
Yeah.
Is it just weekly replenishmentto keep my family alive, or is
it like Taco Tuesday?
Yeah.
Um, and if I'm gonna throw aTaco Tuesday, then great, do I
(15:07):
need to have Taco Tuesdaysomewhere on my PDP?
Like, what's then is required?
So chat knows uh that this ishow I'm gonna go find it.
Yeah, yeah.
Um yeah, this this thistablecloth is great for Taco
Tuesday night.
You're gonna you're gonna beglad you have it.
Yeah, clean up.
It's an interesting kind ofconversation because at least
(15:30):
where we're at right now, techis driving this, right?
AI, if AI didn't exist, wewouldn't be having this
particular conversation.
But at the same time, brands,retailers, they're chasing the
consumer, right?
So the consumer's starting toadapt.
There's more tech that's goingto come in that will be adapted.
Like we're in a very, veryevolving time frame right now
(15:52):
for retail.
Um are you have you seenanything around consumers of
where they're really starting toadopt this, or are we very early
stage?
SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
There are definitely some numbers out about consumers
using ChatGBT.
I'm saying that, but it could beperplexity icon.
Yes, yeah.
Um, and speaking of Gemini, ifyou've searched in Google
lately, like most of the thingsI search have a whole section of
info at the top.
Yeah.
Like with Layout.
(16:27):
Yeah.
And it's like I didn't ask forthat, but that's what's
happening.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:30):
Like across the I didn't ask, but how'd you know
it's what I wanted?
But it's also a lot moreintuitive than just the search
results.
Yeah.
So yeah, you got to trust thoseblue links and go to the site.
Yeah.
And it's like you're it is as aconsumer a total brain flip.
Yep.
In you know, prompting versusquerying.
Yes.
(16:50):
There's a there's a journeythere, and that's that's
necessary as you mentioned, youknow, large CPGs or retailers
trying to adopt AI.
There's this whole shift inokay, how do I prompt well?
This is a whole different skillset.
I'm sure college students today,there's going to be a course
like truly about prompting.
(17:11):
Yeah.
Uh what's what's that look like?
How do you do it well?
But then um, so it's it's onboth sides, both the the
retailers and brands and theconsumer trying to figure out
where this is.
Who who's doing it really wellfrom your point of view?
Oh, uh effective utilization ofAI.
Who's prompting really well?
I would say that's fair.
(17:32):
I don't have to let me adjust myprompt.
Um forgive me.
Um on the the brand or retailerside, like who is best
positioned from your worldviewto take advantage of this
complete shift in traffic?
SPEAKER_01 (17:52):
Well, it tends to be right now that they're going the
trustworthy websites.
So it's the the the initialrollout has been like who's
getting cited in in AI.
And it's overwhelmingly like thetop top news publishers, yeah,
largest traffic, largesttraffic, like they're really
going after just who'sessentially the top SEO result
(18:16):
and the best coming authority.
Um, and I do talk with a lot oflike smaller brands that aren't
Walmart or aren't you know havethat established, uh, which
they're saying.
Who did what did you see aLinkedIn post about that?
I did about referral traffic inWalmart.
SPEAKER_00 (18:33):
I think it was like there's more traffic coming
through Chat GPT um than thereis on Walmart.com.
Wow.
For a particular category.
It's like, yeah, no, it's theshift is happening.
Yeah.
And it's not doesn't mean it'swhere they're converting or how
they're converting, because halfthe time there isn't a link
within, you know, you're notactually using uh your agent to
(18:55):
make the purchase, but it's tomake the decision, then perhaps
separating, but that's friction.
unknown (19:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:02):
And technology's great at removing friction.
And something I just have tothink is like you know, 2.0 or
you know, 1.2 is paying to beseen, like paying the the AI
engines to be the result, right?
Like that's got to become ayeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:21):
I think that's a pretty revenue line, right?
Pretty big uh question now ofjust the bias that might be
baked in.
And you just addressed one ofthe biases, which was if you
don't know, guess.
And that was how they programmeduh JatGBT, just like multiple
choice.
If you're like, I don't know, A,B, C, or D, I'm just gonna at
(19:41):
least have a chance.
Uh, they program it that way, Ithink so there'd be some answers
there for you.
But that's a hallucination.
Yeah, you all know that.
SPEAKER_00 (19:50):
So whereas when Siri says I don't know, it's like
come on, Siri.
Try harder.
Someone else.
Chat was gonna give you ananswer, but they might not know
yet.
SPEAKER_01 (19:59):
Yeah, it might not be right.
Uh yeah, I think there's a lot,uh, a lot out there as far as
like future predictions of howmany people will start to use it
and you know what what it meansfor shopping.
Um, but coming back to some ofthe truth isms that Mono, like e
(20:20):
commerce has kind of capped outin that 20-something percent of
all you know, shopping, whereas80, you know, around 80% is
still in store.
So I find that all lot of thisstuff about online AI, it's like
it's still playing in thatsmaller piece of the pie.
SPEAKER_00 (20:40):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's why I think we'restill we're very early on into
this, into this evolution.
And yeah, I mean, who knows thefuture, right?
We could hallucinate andspeculate about that all day.
You mentioned something earlier.
You said you were in mediabefore it was media.
You know, we we we're in a worldnow where retail media is
becoming much more table stakes.
(21:02):
Uh, maybe before we get intolike your your learnings, your
findings, yeah, how would youdefine, describe retail media?
SPEAKER_01 (21:10):
Uh the simplest way, because we're a retail media
publisher.
Right.
So I have to actually not sayretail media in sequence.
Yeah, I have to say we're retailhistory publication.
Yeah.
Um, because retail media in thisindustry is it's it's the ads on
the retail website or in store.
(21:32):
It's it's the paid, the paidplacement of you know, boosting
your product at the top, evenall the way to end caps and
it'll display screens in thestore.
There's a lot more, I guess,deals uh between brands and
retail than I think a lot ofconsumers realize when there's
like a huge like Super Bowldisplay or whatever.
(21:52):
Like it I growing up, I thought,oh, they just try to sell more
Pepsi, you know?
Yeah.
But you know.
peeling back the veil, there'sthere's a lot of opportunity for
brands to like take it, youknow, get their get their
product placed in ways that theywant.
Um so in a nutshell I I kind ofsimplify it to like my family
(22:16):
and friends who aren't in thespace.
Just oh it's it's ads.
Yeah.
Right?
It's paying for paying for yourproduct to be to be boosted or
placed or whatnot.
Yeah.
Uh do you is is that a commontopic on the wire?
Huge huge and what we've seen ofcourse this is great prompts.
SPEAKER_02 (22:39):
Nice.
SPEAKER_00 (22:39):
I mean this stuff that we we talk about uh weekly
or sometimes you know daily itseems like uh this year has been
very tough for margins friendsand retailers uh wherever you're
at in the supply chain umbetween you know tariffs and
inflation you're seeing justrazor thin margins or negative
(23:02):
yeah we just have to you knowsell anyway and so like if a
retailer sells another hundredproducts of at that rate like it
may not be much game but I Ithink that retail media there's
a big push for it right nowbecause it is a a high margin
product you could say and youknow it it gives retailers
(23:27):
another rep revenue stream thatcould be really beneficial for
the brands um especially youknow you know we've talked about
just the valuation of a of thecompany itself you know having
having another dollar in to theretail media uh you know that's
pretty much bottom line yeahthat alternative income uh line
(23:51):
item has grown yeah with everymajor retail platform yeah and
that's there's still usealternative alternative income
yeah generally speaking itdepends on how it's how it's
done but that's uh when you whenyou look at the earnings reports
you look at the final releaseslike that's the the actual PL
(24:13):
line to note and you bothmentioned platform now um and
knowing that you know Amazon hasprime Walmart acquired Visio
last year so retail media isgoing to continue to evolve
let's kind of go into that thatretailer is a platform you know
how is that how's that benefitone versus another how are
(24:36):
consumers engaging with thathow's it impacting shopping
behavior yeah I think thatyou're seeing this world of
media entertainment who used tosell ads to brands and retailers
and now retail is like well likeyou're spending a lot of money
to like you know get on TV andwhy don't we just buy the TPD
(25:00):
like no um put out our own kindof entertainment and media or
create partnerships.
SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
And um I think there's a lot about even just
creating ritual around usinglet's say for the the Walmart
app for example I had it on myphone and yeah if I fill up gas
even if it's not like a Walmartstation I like hey I can get a
discount so I pull up my app Imight actually scroll a little
(25:28):
bit on the app and see what elseis there while I'm filling up
the gas.
Yeah and so there's I thinkthere's a mindset for retailers
to be you know more I guess moreinvolved in our lives and
provide more value beyond justthe transactional.
Yeah a little more ubiquitous uhjust interact with it you know
(25:54):
it's not just store it's notjust going to the website
anymore it's yeah much moreinvolved there's just more
opportunities to connect umthere was uh a a a post by uh
founder of Ridge Wallet and heuh he said uh of course it was a
hook to get you to read the postbut he said e-commerce dead and
he all the agnostic commerceyeah the omni channel is kind of
(26:19):
this we're we use that term butcustomers don't really think of
channels and especially likeyounger consumers they're just
they don't really differentiatebetween online and in in store
it's the same entity it's thesame brand so agnostic commerce
I don't know if that term willstick uh if she was just for
(26:41):
that post kind of by a sensethis idea that I mean customers
they'll they'll shop whereverthey are whether it's you know
online in store on a TikTokmaybe they're watching uh you
know watching their favoritemovie and or you know there's an
ad and a little Q bar code rightum so there are so many places
(27:04):
that you could buy now and Ithink that that's something that
a lot of retailers are thinkingabout now.
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
Yeah there's and there's there's in-game buy is
something I've seen recentlywhere they have a collection of
games it's one kind of platformyou earn points throughout the
game and then there's an inin-game shop where you don't
even have to leave the game tobuy the thing that you're seeing
there's something that you knowmight be interested to you cool.
(27:32):
Yeah like physical products yeahoh yeah yeah not just the outfit
for jersey one that you can yeahyou can then take home something
that exists yeah yeah yeah nothat's interesting with in the
the brands and suppliersmanufacturers that you you talk
to in this sort of retail spacewhere's their mindset in in uh
(27:58):
treating e treating retail as aplatform as opposed to stuck in
store really only concernedabout growing store e-commerce
is the other thing like how'show are you seeing that evolve?
SPEAKER_01 (28:12):
There's definitely a pressure to if you're a supplier
brand I think D to C is anothercomponent yeah you know when
you're selling through the mainretail channels there's a
pressure to use some you knowbuy some more retail media to
build that relationship and andget in there.
(28:35):
And I think there's a little bitof overwhelm happening with like
channel management.
You know, between emergingbrands they might start with
just Walmart marketplace andAmazon marketplace and that's
all they can really manage.
But there are so many otherplaces it's so it's it's
(28:55):
fragmented.
Yeah if you're really going tospend some ads you you really
want to spin up another 10retailers and and and and carry
that management cost of keepingthose relationships and making
sure you know all the dirtthings going right on top of
that you know some form of adashboard of everything that's
(29:18):
happening and which whichchannels are are helping and
which ones might becannibalizing other ones.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:25):
And what consumer segment is really leaning on one
versus another and getting thatuh that better understanding of
consumer.
Uh have you seen certain thingswork really well for suppliers
that have decided to to movee-com penetration in their
business from you know singledigit into closer to that 20 or
(29:47):
above 20 to outperform?
Single digit e-commercepenetration versus store.
I mean obviously we play a lotin the Walmart and Sam's world
and that's where we are sothat's kind of where I'm
picturing people coming in andgetting into Walmart stores
massive massive win gettingWalmart.com it there's a wide
(30:12):
array of opinions on like ohthis is amazing I can't believe
it to like yeah yeah I've got away bigger business on Amazon.
It's like well yeah and what ittakes to succeed there is
different than what it takes tosee succeed with Walmart and
most don't quite understand thatyet so I'm just curious of those
that maybe in your journey orwhat you've seen that have
(30:33):
successfully gone from like heywe were really under penetrated
and now we're actuallyoverpenetrated online and and
how that journey unfolded.
SPEAKER_01 (30:42):
I don't know if I have a direct uh you know direct
your case for that um but ingeneral it's it's it seems like
the the term incrementalitycomes into play a lot and
because you know you you'regonna put effort into adding
another channel and you wantedto do something.
Do right uh and uh I think sinceWalmart has opened up
(31:06):
Marketplace it's kind of given Ithink a little bit of a gray
area for like a lot of peoplewhere it's like okay you're on
Walmart but you're you know ifyou're in the marketplace it's
kind of a step towardpotentially you know showing
that we can make sales here andwhen you finally get to like
pitching to buyers at toactually get in stores then you
(31:29):
have this track record.
Yeah data in their yeah theirhouse so to speak.
SPEAKER_00 (31:33):
So whether it's their most profitable channel or
whether they're selling at themargins they want to, I think
that's what I've heard recentlywith brands looking to really
get into it is still let's atleast get your foot in the door
and just start getting you knowgetting even just getting used
to the way of operating we'dadvise our clients on that if
(31:55):
they're you know they're not inanything and we're we're talking
about approach and talking aboutstrategy and what the right
assortment is, we'll say okay wewe can have a meeting in three
months let's go ahead and getstarted on the marketplace
because that's going to come uplike yeah are you on our
marketplace we could say yesversus uh no I'll I'll look into
that yeah and those that are alittle bit you know further
(32:15):
ahead that it's a it's a verysmart pre-sale tactic yeah of
like yeah grow that businessgrow it effectively and truly
iterate learn understand yourcustomer because you're now
talking to Walmart's customernot just your D2C and that
analogy is easier to bridge uhfor a Walmart merchant of okay
(32:39):
if you did this in marketplaceyou'll do this in store uh there
are some merchants that arelooking at it as like okay you
know if we're selling mugs uh Icarry these mugs in store these
are only online but those onlineare outperforming my in-store
items online it's equal playingfield if I flip that and bring
the online only that'soutperforming Apple to apple
(33:01):
will it outperform in store aswell you know there's a there's
quite a bit of pressure on ifyou know Apple to Apple online
this thing is winning it's whatshould be in store not just
whatever happened already bethere.
It's also a great way to avoidcostly mistakes.
For a company to launch into anational retailer and it not
(33:22):
work but it could have workedhad we done this color, this
gems, this whatever you couldlearn this that's what you know
that's uh whether it's firstparty feedback or reviews uh
that's a that's a relativelyinexpensive way to learn what
you need to change about yourproduct before you go big.
SPEAKER_01 (33:39):
Do you find brands trying and going too big and
going too you know too manystories all at once.
SPEAKER_00 (33:47):
Oh sure I mean when you're ready it happens
sometimes it happens yeah it itprobably happens a little bit
less uh at least within ourclient basically to done this
for a long time and we've seenyou know that how how it can go
sideways and sometimes it's justthe littlest thing or it didn't
quite have the right amount ofpeople handling the orders for
execution implementation.
(34:10):
Or your packaging didn't reallyarticulate yeah the value prop
of your item and you didn't youdidn't have to face that when
you're a D2C because you've gotall this additional real estate
to talk about it.
But that you know four secondsat shelf in a fluorescent lit
you know very competitive spaceis really hard to to simulate
but online you can test iteratea B test try and see what
(34:36):
changes to that package areactually going to show up in
store I think there's a reasonASOP wrote the tortoise in the
hair right like sometimes itpays off to go a little slower
right early on before you reallyput a foot on the gas.
So as we uh we sort of move on Ithink the retail wire going to
be a really helpful tool forthose that are wanting to know
(34:58):
where conversations are inretail to give us like the most
interesting thing that you'reseeing right now that is
exciting the most excitingconversation you're having right
now in the topic of retail whatwould it be?
SPEAKER_01 (35:13):
Covered some of them with the AI and adjunctive
commerce that's a reallybuzzworthy topic for sure um
there's a lot of excitementaround in-store retail yeah it's
just it's you know maybe it'sboring right compared to all the
what the the the entire you knowworld of tech is is pushing it
(35:38):
still is the main blitz.
Yeah and still the gorilla youknow this I think the for me and
a really interesting topic isabout how far will
personalization go before peoplesay stop personalizing so much
right and just show me what youhave um in general it just seems
(36:01):
like yeah there's so much pushfrom the tech side to implement
all of these things um and thenuts and bolts of like what
works in retail is so human.
Yeah it's so it's unintrical toour psychology our biology who
we are yeah and I don't I thinkthere will come a time where
(36:26):
some will will realize like thatamount of data like we have to
decide what is the useful datathat we want to use.
SPEAKER_00 (36:36):
But so what actually should have stopped a few data
points ago.
Yeah.
Because we're good.
SPEAKER_01 (36:41):
Yeah yeah and and a lot still already is really a
great equalizer yeah for surethat's where people they're in
their full they're not just likeone little screen scrolling and
uh making impulse purchases oryou know kind of separate from
like their full sense senses.
Um I think in store in fact onour roundtable this morning um
(37:05):
one of the fashion brands he wassaying that just the the cost of
actually making online work asjust a straight e-commerce brand
in fashion he's like a lot of usare moving to in store like it
actually just it works better asfar as cost you'd think it's
you'd think it'd be like cheaperyou know and more effective just
(37:27):
run lean on an e-commerce storebut he's saying it's just it's
hard to cut through it's gettingreally costly um and and
in-store is something that'sjust a time tested proven yep
method.
SPEAKER_00 (37:40):
I think that's a great and there's an experience
to picking your things up yeah Ido like that we're we're we'll
we'll kind of wrap on that thatyou know we we really start out
with the agentec the the all thenew uh but there's still a lot
of stores and a lot of peopleshopping in them and at the end
of the day you know whether it'somni whether it's agnostic it's
(38:01):
all those things and we just gotto follow the consumer at where
they want to go.
Love it you want to take usthrough the lightning yeah we
got a lightning round we like todo a little a little something
fast.
SPEAKER_01 (38:10):
The first one's real easy what's your greatest
failure in business oh my goshthat's a really easy you're
welcome or just one of thethings what is yeah trying to
think of like a straight failurebut I think the theme of failure
for me is just probably takingon taking on things that were
(38:32):
just too big or too I bumpedinto something.
Yeah triggered out later andthat's it's worked for a lot of
my life yeah there are timeswhere it's like later kidding an
opportunity just because it'sthere oh yeah and it it doesn't
mean you're you will it willwork out.
Love that times no just say yesum last 12 months um biggest
(38:56):
thing you've learned yeah as aas a CEO as a business person
I've been a lot of my focus hasbeen on on just understanding
the retail industry what'shappening um I would say it's
gonna be kind of cliche buthuman connection right like in
(39:22):
any industry whether you thinkthat it's just back to that
thing about data it's just yeahthere's a bunch of data here's a
bunch of people and if I wantedto connect with you know a
thousand people with thatcertain job title great but
ultimately it does come down toa human connection with yeah
that yeah and that unscalablepart it while everybody's
(39:44):
talking about you know sendingall your AI agents to talk to
everybody and do all yournetworking for you it's like
there's an unscalable part thatjust I don't think will ever go
away.
Totally yeah all right thisone's a little bit of a trap but
like where what are you readingkind of content are you into I
am I've got a couple books I'mreading one is about the like
(40:09):
the history backstory of open AIso that's called the Empire of
AI.
SPEAKER_00 (40:15):
Yeah very interesting yeah I'm like yeah
it's back when Elon Musk waspart of it.
SPEAKER_01 (40:21):
Is it deepening your trust or um yeah I don't know uh
let me know when you get to okayget to the end I get uh juicy
and I think probably a good goodsegue for the rap is like okay
where do people find you how doI sign up yeah so I'm I'm pretty
active on LinkedIn so people canfind me there just connect um
and we host live stream uh forpublic live streams with
(40:44):
different tech leaders anddifferent retail leaders um and
then we're also hosting thosethose private roundtables for
brands that just want to talk inkind of a space where it's like
you're free to say what yeah noncompetitive we're all needed at
times so yeah yeah it's awesomeum but retailwire.com is where
people can find our publicationsign up for the newsletter and
(41:05):
get kind of updates of when thenext events are fantastic that's
great thank you so much forjoining us and thank you for uh
tuning in uh you can find all ofour podcasts wherever you get
your podcasts are on YouTube oron our website at
highimpactanalytics dot com.
SPEAKER_00 (41:23):
Thank you
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com