Off-Shelf Displays: Driving Brand Discovery

The last three feet of the retail journey are where brands are either made or forgotten. While digital marketing and social media influencers can build awareness, the physical reality of the store floor remains the ultimate conversion point for 80-90% of shoppers. Joshua Linden joins the conversation to break down why high-stakes retail execution is the difference between a successful product launch and a costly logistical nightmare.

We sit down to discuss the strategic shift toward off-shelf merchandising and how employee-owned partners like Bay Cities manage end-to-end solutions from design to fulfillment. We get into the tactical complexities of multi-vendor programs, the critical timing differences between "collect" and "prepaid" shipping, and why structural integrity is an insurance policy for your brand’s reputation. Joshua shares the "secret sauce" behind how emerging brands like Bloom Nutrition and Dr. Squatch use disruptive secondary placements to steal market share from incumbents who have grown complacent on the home shelf.

The unglamorous truth of retail is that even a perfect product will fail if it’s stuck in a brown box in the backroom or if the display arrives partially empty. These operational friction points can cost brands hundreds of thousands of dollars in third-party labor fixes and lost sales velocity. You will walk away with a clear understanding of the "easy button" for merchant approvals and a mindset shift regarding how to pitch category growth rather than just your own brand's footprint.

If you care about retail logistics, in-store merchandising, and scaling emerging brands, you’ll get a lot from this episode. Please Subscribe and Share to help us continue bringing boots-on-the-ground retail expertise to your feed.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:07):
Hello and welcome to the Retail Journey Podcast.
I'm one of your hosts, CharlesGreenhouse.

SPEAKER_01 (00:12):
And I am James Harris, and today we're talking
to Joshua Linden, salesexecutive from Bay City.
Welcome to the Retail Journey.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 (00:20):
I'm glad to be here.
Looking forward to it.
Joshua, I mean, we've gotten todo a lot of interesting things
together from building programsat retail as a merchant to being
on this side to walking tradeshows, Bay City packaging y'all
into some corrugate, but thatthat doesn't really describe it.

(00:41):
Can you uh before we uh you knowget too deep, I'd love to hear
just a quick like Bay Cities.
How would you describe what BayCities is up to?

SPEAKER_02 (00:50):
Yeah, I think when I think about Bay Cities, I think
about the people.
As we're an employee-ownedcompany, we take a lot of pride
in what we do.
And we are a strategic partnerand end-to-end solution provider
for not only retailers, butbrands.
So we're doing the design, we'redoing the line drawings and the
manufacturing, the fulfillment,and the end to you know,

(01:13):
solution with the logistics outto the retailers.
And so we're really trying to bea part of that solution, whether
it be Walmart or Sam's Club,Costco or Target, we're very
retail-centric.
So we're focused on making surethat they hit all those marks so
they understand the timelinesacross those things.
So it's really um start tofinish to get those last three

(01:33):
feet at the store level.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
Yeah, love that.
I mean, when I think of the thewhole journey start to finish,
being on time, in full, beingthoughtful, showing up well for
a customer.
It's not a lot like what we doat I Impact.
We just we don't have anycorrugate.
Yes.
We don't actually build thephysical anything in that

(01:55):
journey.

SPEAKER_02 (01:56):
The goal is to help, yeah.
The goal is to help brands winat retail.
Yeah.
Whether it's you know throughthe analytics and understanding
the cost models and things likethat, or just the back end of
like how do we get this twostores successfully through
supply chain without anyfailures or surprises down the
line that are going to costsignificant dollars for those
brands, or even the retailer ifthere's a mistake made.

SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Definitely a poorly executed uh palette um can
really leave a mark.

SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
Can really hurt.
I love that.
So when you think of a I don'tknow, Corgate at store, there's
you know, a lot of people herethat have experienced or in our
audience that have experienced,you know, on the merchant side,
having a plan and then seeing iteither not come to life or you
know come to life successfully,brands who've experienced you

(02:42):
know, additional billboard instore and many who haven't.
You know, what's thesignificance of getting
something that's perhapsoff-shelf?
How do you guys see that?
Because you have a unique pointof view of a whole lot of
programs across, acrosscategories, across seasons.
Um what's the significance ofhaving a a secondary display, of

(03:05):
having corrugate that can tellyour brand story off the shelf?

SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
I might be biased, but I think it's significantly
significant.
Um, it's a it's a it's a part ofthe mix, right?
And I think the last step isthat retail with a lot of
consumers still going intostores.
I mean, there's some differentstatistics out there, but it's
between 80 to 90 percent,depending on the category.
And I think being on the shelfis great.
That's that's the start of youknow your journey.

(03:31):
Like you want to get on shelf.
I think if you want to staylonger, if you want a longer
play, you want to make sureyou're getting into the hearts
of those shoppers.
Like you need to be off shelf,whether that be on an in-cap or
a half palette or a four-way.
Yeah, those are really importantmarketing and sales tools that
need to be implemented so thatyou can have more success, so

(03:53):
that those shoppers that are instores can understand, be
communicated to this is new.
Oh, when I come back, it's gonnabe in this section of the store
when that display isn't thereanymore.

SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
Yeah.
And if if if demand is about tosurge or is surging, you can't
keep enough product on the shelfsometimes, right?
The the the secondary display,whether it's a pallet or
something else, might becritical.

SPEAKER_02 (04:16):
It is extremely critical because they can drive
traffic back to the store ifthey don't see it on on that
vehicle.
It's it is it's it's a step thatshouldn't be missed.
And I think it's important forbrands to also take that to
their you know, their jointbusiness plan meetings and like
how they're strategizing withthe retailer and the merchant.
Like they're like, oh, we'redoing you know, media, we're

(04:36):
doing social media, we're doinge-commerce, we got Walmart
Connect.
Well, what are you gonna do instore?
How are you gonna make thecustomer have a really good
experience?
And I think, you know, from thefoundation of Walmart, like that
was what Sam pushed for.
Like he wanted everyone to comein, have a good experience.
Hi, how are you?
Welcome.
This is what you're gonna getwhen you come in here.

(04:57):
It's kind of like a party or youknow, a celebration.
And now that's not every singleday at the store, but the goal
is to get people to come backand experience something
different that they can't getanywhere else.
And when you're using thesemerchandising vehicles, that's
the best way to pull that andtie it all together.

SPEAKER_00 (05:13):
I love that uh, you know, how they feel in the
store, how they feel when theyleave.
Um, in my last you know, fewroles at Walmart, I got this
placard from a friend that wasdisplayed in my office, which
was the feeling your customershave when they leave determines
how quickly they return.
Exactly.
And you know, uh a display canplay a significant role in like

(05:34):
bringing something to theforefront of your mind that you
didn't know existed, you know,and that can at times it might
feel like, oh no, you're justpushing things.
Like, no, guys, our household isgluten-free.
And before we were gluten-free,I'm a bit of a child and I love
Cheez-Its.
Um, and there are nowgluten-free Cheez-Its.

(05:57):
And if it wasn't on display inthe aisle, I would not know, and
I would still be living in thatdark place that doesn't include
gluten-free Cheez-Its.
But now, by golly, because ofdisplay, because of presence in
aisle, our family now knows wecan have Cheez-Its again.
The world is back.
And and that sort of capturing amoment, capturing innovation,

(06:19):
being able to surprise anddelight customers to me, is a
huge part of what ends uphappening when you do something
off of the shelf.

SPEAKER_02 (06:26):
Yeah.
And I mean, it comes down toeducation and awareness.
Like sure.
If you, if they're not in thespot to be seen, they won't be
known about.
And if you know, maybe you'renot seeing those ads, maybe
you're not getting those pushesnotifications when you're near a
store or you know, somethingwhere it drives you back to
like, oh, I need to get thisproduct.
So again, like that's why Ithink N-Store is yeah, the most
important part because it'susually the last thing brands

(06:48):
think about.
They're like, I just need to getit into the door.
I'm gonna push all this, youknow, whether it be, you know,
actual billboards or print adsor digital or you know, whatever
method they're using.

SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
This is to me is the most important part because you
you have a you have aninteresting kind of medium.
Um, you know, sometimesobviously everybody that sells
product would love to sell extrapallets.
Right.
Um, sometimes an individualproduct or even you know, line
of products maybe doesn'twarrant um entire palette
placement, but you still wantsecondary.

(07:22):
You all will do multi-vendor uhpalettes and and other
offerings, I assume.
So talk to us about that.
Like what the what's therationale?

SPEAKER_02 (07:30):
Yeah, I think what retailers are wanting, and I
think this goes back toexperience, is to allow
customers to come in and getsomething different.
Now, when you're doingmulti-vendors, what you're
allowing for is to get maybe asingle product that may not be
able to fill a complete display,and they just take up a portion
of that.
So maybe you can now go fromhaving one supplier to eight or

(07:53):
nine suppliers with potentiallya single price point or multiple
price points, depending on theseasonality of the program.
And it allows for strongpresence and also making it more
feasible for those smallerbrands to actually participate
because that's the last cost.
They got their packaging, theygot their product packaging
extra is the last thing, in myopinion, that they want to pay

(08:16):
for because they've got allthese other dollars that the
retailers are asking them tospend and then what they believe
they need to spend.
Um, you know, from a cost ofexecution, this is minor per
store for the amount of eyeballsare gonna be on that, the amount
of education.
Um, you may even get somesupport from the retailer to you
know talk about that in some oftheir promotion and in their PR.

SPEAKER_01 (08:38):
But one of one of my last jobs before um pursuing
high impact full-time, I waswith Warner Brothers on the DVD
side back when that still wasDVD much more than it was today.
So we hadn't quite likestreaming hadn't quite started
yet, but Netflix existed.
They did the mail order uhthing.
And um new releases come out onTuesdays for whatever reason.

(09:04):
Um, so Tuesday mornings,everybody started their day in
this store, and the first thingyou would see was the palette
for the new release.
You know, it's just um I canthink of several walking through
this one spot in the you know,the main super center that I go
to.
Um, and I think I've probablypicked up more impressions from
that one little location than Ihave anywhere else in the store.

(09:28):
Um, how have uh some of the moresuccessful companies developed
strategy around what theirin-store, what their in-store
strategy is gonna be?

SPEAKER_02 (09:38):
Yeah, I think there's they're all doing it the
same.
Whether they're emerging brandsor legacy brands, there is a
specific playbook.
I don't think that everyone'sgonna follow that same playbook.
Not every product, as youmentioned, is going to make
sense to be in a display.
Yeah, right.
Some can have it um more andsome can have less.

SPEAKER_00 (09:58):
The thought process is there's a lot of in-store
dynamics that will come intowhether or not customers get to
experience your product, right?
Whether or not your product getsto grow a category, and display
is a part of that, but certainlynot all of it.
And so as your view of lots ofcategories, lots of programs

(10:21):
across time, where have you seenpeople most successfully gain
new customers by having acomprehensive view of both
shelf, off-shelf, even display,you know, assets beyond what
happens in store, butspecifically in store, what are
the things that seem to reallymove the needle most?

SPEAKER_02 (10:40):
Yeah, I think when it's in store, you can do things
on shelf, right?
Maybe you get a blade or maybeyou get some shelf talker that
kind of allows you to stand outin line.
Yeah.
Um, when you're looking atoff-shelf, you can also be just
on the shelf, right?
Like you don't have to be insome type of merchandising
vehicle or PDQ tray.
Like they'll just set you righton the shelf.
That's great, but it doesn'tcommunicate anything beyond them

(11:03):
actually having to go pick upyour product and look at it.
Yep.
I mean, my goal when I'm workingwith brands is to make sure that
they can clearly see, see thedisplay in education from that
10, 5 foot, 3 foot all the wayup to there.
Like the goal is for them topick up the product and put that
product into their cart.
Sometimes, if it's a new brandor a new innovation that's in

(11:24):
stores, it has to be extremelyclear what that is, why it
matters to them, whether it'slike zero grams of sugar or 15
grams of protein, or this isgluten-free, or keto, or
whatever the thing is, that'sgoing to trigger something in
their mind to say, okay, thisproduct is for me, or maybe this
is the product that I've beenlooking for that I haven't

(11:45):
found, or maybe it's for someoneelse.
Right.
Well, I mean, even yeah, likeI've never been able to find
this in Walmart before.
Why, why is that?
Like, you know, and I think thatlike Walmart's really leaned
into these emerging brands andtaking risks because their
shopper and their customerschanging.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, and they're they'rethey're looking for products

(12:05):
that aren't necessarily cheaperor better, you know, but they're
looking for you know goodingredients, they're looking for
brands that they can trust.
Yeah.
And so you see, you know,$10cereals now or you know,$4 bars,
like that's stuff you would havenever seen in a Walmart before,
but they recognize that that'swhat their customers are looking
for.

SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
I think there's an element too, and this is just
speculation on my part, but somuch of grocery sales have
become uh OPD or you you get itput in your, you know, the back
of your car in the parking lot,it's delivered to your house.
Uh, but bringing in new things,innovative things, would be a
reason to get people back in thestore.
I wonder if that's a little bitof a beyond just the refill, the

(12:46):
pantry, it's I know actuallycome inside and see what what we
have.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (12:51):
And there's times where you need the instant
gratification of having aproduct.
Um, I mean, the stores are by nomeans quiet.

SPEAKER_03 (13:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (13:00):
Yeah.
Like, yes, there's been anenormous amount of growth
online, and the stores are stillquite very active.

SPEAKER_02 (13:07):
Yeah, I also think it comes down to timing and like
what what is actually happeningwithin the in the environment.
Is there something for stockingstuff or is there something for
back to school?
Like making sure that the brandsknow what those opportunities
are that they can slide intothat are going to allow them to
stand out um not just on theshelf, but like, hey, like this

(13:27):
is something where they'reactually, you know, this is a
part of a back-to-school thing.
This needs to be in theirbackpack or this needs to be in
their Easter basket.
Um, and creating that story umso that they can have a better
experience, so they can givetheir kids or someone else a
better experience because theyknow they can go to a Walmart
and find the items that aregonna make it special.

SPEAKER_00 (13:48):
Well, that's surprise of like the things you
didn't expect to find.
Yeah.
Um, that changes repeat shoppingbehavior significantly.
I remember when I was buyingvitamins back in the day, before
Walmart had credibility in youknow, non-GMO, really effective,
clean label supplements in theVMS space, having them on the

(14:13):
shelf was a silent pass-through.
Nobody the customer that wasbuying organic produce was not
walking down the aisle becausethey had in their mind that this
was not a place where I can findsupplements that are gonna help
me save money and live better.
And that has changeddramatically.
But the first step in thatdirection was the terrifying

(14:36):
multi-vendor program that I hadto launch in order to put in
front of the customer the thingthey didn't know.
Yeah.
Um, and at that time it was anoperator that that said, I'll go
with you, Charles.
Yeah, uh, which was critical forthose merchants out there trying
to do something a little bitwild.
Having an operator on your sidegoes goes a really long way.

(14:57):
Yeah.
Shout out, Ken Sassey, thankyou.
And in that journey, was eitherlike, hey man, we're either
going to celebrate the hugesuccess that this created, or
I'm gonna thank you for workingthrough it because it's gonna
take a while.
Yeah.
Because if the sales rate didn'tchange, yeah, then we were we
were stuck.
Holy smokes did it change.
I mean, multiples on items whereit's like, I know this is a

(15:19):
really popular supplement.
I don't think customers knowthat we carry it.
It having a two and a half inchslot on in one position in a
pusher on the vitamin mod iswhere it belongs day in, day
out.
But they don't even know wecarry it.
Right.
And then once it was in theweekly, they kept coming to it.
So it's not like they'remutually exclusive.
It's like, hey, one of these isto help acquire.

(15:42):
And you shouldn't acquire byjust doing the same thing that
happens itself by having alittle one-inch bottle.
It's you got to tell thecustomer, hey, there's this
thing you didn't um Walmartcarries that they do.
And by the way, the ingredientsare incredible.
And by the way, it's non-GMO.
And by the way, it's in a brandyou can trust.
And that uh that made way morethan a month-long impact.

(16:02):
Not because it took more than amonth to sell through it, but
because those were customersacquired into the reshop.

SPEAKER_02 (16:08):
Yeah, and I think the communication at the shelf
is one thing.
You're seeing hundreds of brandsall at once.
You're gonna be geared towardsthe one that you feel
comfortable on, the one that youknow about, or the one that
you've seen on ads.
And I think what's unique aboutwhat you just discussed is those
are extremely complexexecutions.
Like that is multi-vendorpass-throughs where you're
taking, you know, we used to dothe Sun, we do the Sun Care

(16:31):
Islander, yeah, and that programhas hundreds of planograms,
hundreds of products, over 20suppliers.
Yeah.
We have to not only get theright.

SPEAKER_00 (16:44):
So yeah, that's the giant thing in action alley out
in front of personal care whereyour sunscreen is.
Because the side counter, toJames's point earlier, can't
handle you know, carrying allday, every day, the summer spike
for sunscreen.
They can carry some place at theright time.
But now you got mom, you know,kids aren't out of school yet,

(17:06):
we're not doing vacations yet,but they see it right there, and
oh, you're for sure picking itup, getting it to the basket.
Yeah, and it's by going tohaving passed that on to my
project.
We uh we we go through some weuse that islander, but yeah, for
the islander complex, not maybeto the merchant.
That's part of what Big Citiesbrings.

(17:26):
It's not just yeah, uh we makeit easy, yeah.
And and I love what it does forthe customer.
You know, I think the the rightmerchant mindset isn't about
driving brand growth in likeoff-shelf.
It's about uh driving customergrowth through brands or private

(17:50):
brands or a collection of brandsby giving them a solution to a
problem they didn't know thatWalmart was able to solve,
didn't know they were able tosolve in such a great way,
didn't know this new andimproved innovation was
available.
There's a lot of differentreasons that you can delight
that customer, but ultimately italways comes back down to the
customer and how you might helpthem.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (18:10):
And again, if it's not in front of them, they're
not gonna see it, especially ifthey're not looking for it.
And if it when it comes to likeentertainment too, I think that
like that's a really uniquespace because not all those
products are going to be in thestore all the time and they're
surrounded in differentlocations, whether it be in PET
or toys or electronics orapparel or consumables, like to

(18:32):
be able to put it in one placeat one time in a very specific
time frame, whether it's a movierelease or something that's
happening in that space, it'sit's it's key because they're
spending a lot of thosemarketing dollars and pumping
pumping things into the store.
So if they're not on, like ifthey're not on the floor on the
time they're supposed to,they're losing dollars.

(18:52):
So I think it's really importantto obviously be on time and full
and understand the differentlevers you can pull in the front
end of that, whether it beswitching from collect to
prepaid, so that you can makesure that you condense that
timeline.
Um, really uh, you know, gettingbuyer approval and in merchant
approval in advance.
Like, hey, here's the timeline.
This is when we need cutoffs,this is when we need POs and

(19:15):
confirmations.
And I think the more brands canunderstand that in advance, the
more successful they will be.
And I know it seems simple.
Oh, meet the MABD, right?
Like get to the MABD, but do youunderstand all the steps that
are required?
What happens if logisticsdoesn't arrive?
What happens if the productisn't going to get there on time
and you have to ship a displaypartially empty?

(19:36):
Yeah.
Like what is that?
How is that going to affect yourbusiness and the relationships
not only you have with theretailer, but with the consumers
that are maybe looking for yourproduct because you said, hey,
we're in Walmart, go out thereand get us.
And then they go look for thatin-cap that they showed, you
know, Jake Paul showed on hisInstagram.
Right.
Now they can't find it, right?
Yeah.
Yep.

(19:57):
Maybe they go to the aisle andfind it there, but they need to
be able to see it when they'repushing to the retailer.

SPEAKER_01 (20:04):
Well, retail notoriously, you know, you don't
have many seconds with aperson's attention to get their
attention one, get theminterested, sell them something.
I remember at the beginning ofmy career, I would hear that you
got three to four seconds, and Ithink it's quite a bit less than
that now.
Yeah.
And then you think about themedia fragmentation, you know,

(20:24):
our attention spans are gettingshorter because of our dopamine
addiction on social media.
Um, where an old like uhcorrugate, it's it's tried and
true.
And how often do you walkthrough a store and see somebody
standing there studying thecorgate, the the palette?
Um, yeah.
So, how do you talk to customersabout you know looking at

(20:45):
secondary display, corrugate,whatever it may be, as uh an
investment in their marketingand brand building?

SPEAKER_02 (20:51):
Yeah, I mean, it it needs to be a part of that.
There's a lot of dollars to getput out there.
This is where the rubber meetsthe road.
Like this is the most physicalyou can get outside of being on
the shelf.
And I think that that's thereality is they're meeting it
for the first time.
Yeah, they saw the images ontheir social, their influencers
really talking about it.
But now it's the time for themto go find out if what they're

(21:14):
saying is true.
Um, so to me, a little biased,but I do believe that's the most
effective tool that billboardyou can get.
Um, because you can see it froma distance, it stays in stores
for long periods of time.
Associates know about it, theymay be excited about it, they
may even share it with somebodywhile they're walking through,
um, or maybe with a friend.

(21:34):
Yeah.
And so I think that it's alittle bit bigger.
And what's more unique is theopportunity to drive more
engagement at the store levelthrough these vehicles.
So not only can a you know aninfluence or a brand drive
traffic to a display in store,but maybe they have some
incentive or giveaway that theycan get while they're in the

(21:55):
store.
Maybe they're doingphotographies, taking a photo in
front of the display, taggingthem like.
There are so many other ways topick up different customers
through that process.
And I think that brands need tobe thinking about it.
It's a lot to think about.

SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
Many, if any brand who doesn't want off-shelf
display.
Right.
Yeah.
And yet there's a small fractionthat end up actually getting
off-shelf display.
How would you counsel someonewho's like, yes, I want all of
that, but they haven't ever hadit before?
Yeah.
What are the what are the thingsthat are likely going wrong in
their journey where that'sthat's not been something

(22:34):
they've successfully executed?

SPEAKER_02 (22:36):
Yeah, I think the first thing really comes down to
their packaging, their productpackaging.

SPEAKER_00 (22:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (22:43):
So some brands come D2C, some are already in retail
and their packaging is setbecause it will look good on
shelf.
They're not planning for it tobe in display.
They're not planning for it tobe in a PDQ or anything off
shelf.
So some of their branding andmarketing that's on that
packaging goes away.
Maybe you know the title of theproduct or whatever now gets

(23:03):
hidden behind that two-inchfront lip.
Yeah.
So now, on top of that, maybeyou're having to add additional
materials or costs because thebiggest thing is the cost.
This is the last thing.
They've already spent a lot ofmoney to get there.
It needs to be thought about.
Like it needs to be an importantpart of that process and
evaluating and understanding thecost, the timing, um, what that

(23:25):
impact is going to have at thestore level.
And how do you build that threeto five year plan with that, you
know, because you you want to bein retail a long time.
You want to continue to makemoney and support the retailer
and you know their category andcontinue to innovate.
And if you're not looking atthose vehicles, and I think
there's some really goodexamples with like Bloom
Nutrition, they they I thinkthey're one that I've really

(23:49):
enjoyed watching go to market.
Um, Mari and Greg were thefounders, and they've done a
really good job of you knowbuilding their social community
and getting them involved, butthen taking that community,
driving them to each of thosenew retailer channels.
Yeah.
So it's like, yeah, they'regonna pump everything into
Walmart for a little while, thenthey're gonna pump everything
into Target for a little while,and then they're gonna be using

(24:10):
newspapers to try to getinvestors to come in, and then
they're gonna be, you know,using normal billboards that
you're gonna see in high trafficareas, and then they're gonna be
doing in-caps every quarter formultiple years, right?
They're getting that space onthe in-caps, they're putting
that into their negotiationstrategy from the very beginning
and allowing the merchant andthe retailer to understand that

(24:33):
they understand.
Right.
Because I think that's thenether risk is like, well, I
don't want to give them thisopportunity for them to flop it,
and then I look bad as amerchant because I gave them an
opportunity and then they didn'tarrive on time, or all these
complications.
And there's so many checkpointswhere things can go wrong.

SPEAKER_00 (24:51):
I love that.
I mean, the I think there's alot of people who think, okay,
great.
I I want to be on display offshelf.
I've got a I've been thinkingabout that for 30 days.
Um, and this is the thing that Iwant.
But what you just said is thethe great companies, like the
good, you might be able tosubmit a a feature proposal that

(25:12):
is customer-centric, that doesmaybe articulate what a category
would do if this were to grow.
But a great company is going tobe looking ahead and there's
been building blocks put inplace prior to even submitting
for a feature.
And by the time that you'resubmitting, it's because the
right thing for the category isfor your product to be

(25:32):
off-shelf.
The right thing for the customeris for your product to be
off-shelf.
Yeah.
And I think that sort offoresight is well, that can be
difficult.
Yeah.
Retail tends to be very tyrannyof the urgent, and you're you're
right here.
But when you when you look up atthe horizon and really plan
where things are gonna go andgrow, you start thinking about
that execution differently.

SPEAKER_02 (25:50):
Yeah.
It's an investment in thefuture, and many brands that I
speak with don't always seethat.
They just see the cost, they seethe complexity, they're like, I
don't want to ruin thisrelationship, and they just
don't do it.
Yeah, right.
Um, or they complain about doingit, even though they're gonna
get the velocities that theyneed and the awareness they need
to potentially drive them backto that shelf because hey, I got

(26:12):
that toothbrush off that in-capfor Easter.
I need another one.
Right.
Well, that Easter in cap's nolonger there.
Well, now, now where are theygonna go?
They're gonna go to thetoothbrush aisle, they're gonna
look, and then they're gonna,they're hopefully gonna find it
because they recognize thebrand, they recognize the
product.
Um, and that's the best type ofmarketing.
You want them to come back.
And I do have a really goodexample from um so Kinder

(26:36):
Seasoning was a you know,they've blown up.
Like you see them everywhere.
2020 was a big time, and youknow, they launched for some
reason for summer, you know, forsummer grilling, they launched a
half palette during that periodof time.
Extremely successful.

SPEAKER_01 (26:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (26:52):
When we went out to stores, what was interesting, we
would kind of watch the shopperscome up and engage with
displays.
And some of the people we talkedto, they were already coming
back more than once.
They're like, hey, we I camehere yesterday, I picked this up
um because my husband neededsomething.
And then I actually realized theseason I needed some more
seasoning, and I came over hereto grab this style off your

(27:14):
display.
If that display wouldn't havebeen there, maybe they would
have grabbed a different productor something that's, you know,
maybe a private label or maybe adifferent brand.
Drop those.
Um, you know, or even left thestore because they didn't have
something for them.
You know, maybe they go to aWhole Foods or Sprouts or
wherever else, because peoplewill do that.
They can't find what they want,they'll leave, they'll pull up

(27:36):
their phone, they'll go toAmazon or whatever, yeah, and
make a purchase right therebecause then they can get it
delivered.

SPEAKER_00 (27:42):
It's convenient.
Yeah.
Yeah, I always hated that.
You know, when it's like we didall the work, got them all the
way into the store.
Yeah.
Right to the shelf.
And then they just plug it.
Lost it.
Man, we were so close.
It's a huge mess to keeping thatcustomer in there.
Yeah.
Um, I've been told the best timeto plant a tree is 20 years ago.
I feel like similarly here, it'slike, hey, if three years ago
you were really thoughtful abouthow you're building your brand

(28:03):
at shelf, then that off-shelfdisplay, you're totally ready
for it.
Right.
So in lieu of it being threeyears ago, today, yeah, someone
who's like, okay, I'm I'minterested in partnering with
Walmart or Sam's Club.
I'm interested in exponentiallygrowing.
How would you counsel them assomeone who's seen a lot of
brands in their growth momentsthrive and some stumble?

(28:24):
How to prepare to make thatmoment successful?

SPEAKER_02 (28:27):
I yeah, that's a really good question on like how
to make sure that they'resuccessful.
And I think there's a lot ofdeliverables there because it
starts way before we even getthe product.
Right.
Right.
It's understanding thosetimelines.
Okay, well, when do we need tomanufacture this to hit this M
ABD?
And are there any checkpointswhere we're gonna run it, you
know, run into issues, whetherthere's port challenges, or

(28:48):
maybe you have shortages once weget your product into our
facility.
We're opening up, and that'ssometimes, you know, yeah,
there's shortages.
We're gonna add it up there.
Or, you know, maybe you open upthe box and there's nothing
inside there, or there's mold,or who knows?

SPEAKER_00 (29:03):
Like there's sort of not even anticipating the cost
of packing out a display.
Right.
So you can want a display,right, and then be unwilling to
execute the display and openstock.
I mean, you'll get more eyes onthe product itself, but you you
might not actually expose yourbrand to someone who didn't know
you before.
Correct.

SPEAKER_02 (29:23):
Yeah, and so I think really understanding all those
things up front is the mostimportant part.
Now, every supplier isdifferent, everyone has
different timelines.
Yeah, I think what separateslike base cities from anyone
else is the ability to movequickly.
You have technology on thedigital side and the printing
side to allow for thatflexibility.
I've had a lot of scenarioswhere brands are like, hey, a

(29:46):
slot opened up at Walmart forthis half palette.
Can you help me pull it off?
It's four weeks from now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so do we do you have apartner that can pull those
levers efficiently andeffectively enough to get you in
there without failing?
Yeah.
And sometimes there's a scenariowhere like they have we haven't
even tested a display.
We don't even know if it's goingto survive.

(30:07):
So now we're rushing product tous.
We need to make sure they havethose documentations.
So when on the outbound, theysay, hey, we took photos, we did
the testing, this is exactly howit should make it through supply
chain.
So if there are any failures atthe store level, at least you
kind of have an insurancepolicy.
Hey, we did the ISTA testingstructures good.
Maybe we need to re-evaluatewhat's happening at the store

(30:28):
level.

SPEAKER_00 (30:28):
That's the luck that people experience, except you
know, luck is accumulation ofthe preparation.
So you're ready for the for thescenario.
Those aren't plays you'rerunning for the first time.
Yeah.
It's just you, you you end up inthe situation of solving
something quickly.

SPEAKER_02 (30:43):
Yeah.
And I think it's also like, arethey prepaid or collect?
Do they understand that likeyou're gonna go from potentially
seven days to 20 to 25 days ifyou go collect?
Yeah.
Now that just depends during theseasonality, but that's a big
difference.
Yeah.
Like, how do you build that intoyour time into?
Yeah.
And I think we've been able to,you know, even on these
multi-bandor complex programs,been able to change things from

(31:05):
collect to prepaid because theexecution rate skies.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
And I mean, especially which isbig.
If you can take something from ayou know 60% execution rate up
to a night over a 90% executionrate just by switching to
logistics, yeah, why aren't youthinking about that?
Yeah, sure, you're gonna savesome cost, but you're gonna lose
cost if that doesn't make it tothe floor on time.

(31:25):
Yeah.
If it gets stuck on a you know,trailer that's been dropped at
the yard and they don't knowit's there, or maybe it's in
problem freight.
Yeah.
There's a lot of touch points,or maybe it's stuck in the back,
or maybe it got stolen from someyou know, truck pirates.
Like those things happen.
And do you have a plan for it?
Do you understand what'srequired in those moments,

(31:46):
whether it be documentation orfiling, different, you know, to
make sure grievances to makesure that you get paid on things
that you may have lost?

SPEAKER_00 (31:55):
Yeah, well, there's a whole journey.
All of the you know, suppliersknow it of like there's a lot of
different things you end uphaving to do throughout the
journey.
And yeah, you know, themerchants have a similar bundle
of complexities they're tryingto solve, one of which is really
crushing e-com.
So, as someone who's reallyfocused on in-store execution, I
thought it'd be fun to ask youabout omni-channel.

(32:18):
Yeah and like, does it matter?
Have you seen actual like whenyou do a good omni-channel
program with in-store and onlineactivation?
Are you seeing those resultsdifferently than those that are
just simply focused forin-store?

SPEAKER_02 (32:33):
I think when they pull the data, I think there's
groups like the barcode groupthat really are able to dive
into some of that data.
And I mean, it's the lifts aregood.
Like, I mean, you're you're ableto see what's happening by
dropping these displays in thestore.
Um, and so I don't, yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (32:51):
Yeah, at least what we tend to see is when you can
get the spike to happen onlineand in store, you trigger that
behavior to shift from simplyreordering online to exploring
new things that are in store.
Yeah.
As a new product, you're tryingto acquire new customers to your
brand.
Yep.
And that most effective windowinto who your brand is is

(33:15):
digital.
Yeah.
You have to do both.
That's where we've seen it.

SPEAKER_02 (33:18):
Yeah, you have to do both.
I think that like on the digitalside, like you have to have your
your landing page, you have toshow the product.
I think making sure that itlooks like what you're gonna see
in store, not just showing apretty image, very important,
the product without it in itspackaging, because that's that's
a miss.
I think you see a lot of D2Cbrands, they focus on that.
They don't really focus on theproduct because it's just gonna
ship in a plastic bag orwhatever.

(33:39):
Yeah, and so it really has tostand out.
But you know, the data that I'veseen really shows that they'll
that they may not make thatpurchase online, but they will
make that purchase in store orvice versa.
Yeah.
And it is education and a touchpoint.
Like maybe they're looking forchips and then something new
pops up.
Yeah, I maybe it's a better, youknow, better goods brand.

SPEAKER_00 (33:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (33:58):
Like I think that that's what's transitioning to
is like there's so many moreoptions, and the retailers are
going into private labelproducts that are elevated.
Yeah.
And so there is more competitionout there, and they do have to
stand out if you're a brandgoing into retail because
there's a better, there's abetter price.
And so what are you what is yourvalue proposition?
Is it the you know, the macros,or is it just being able to

(34:20):
stand out, or maybe it's just alifestyle product?
Yeah.
Like how does this fit withinwhat I do?
Maybe I'm in fitness, maybe I'myou know trying to lose weight,
whatever that that element is.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (34:32):
Yeah, no, I I've it all comes back to the customer.
Right.
You know, we when we do thatreally effectively, I think we
always find the long-termsuccess we were hunting for.
I hope that it's you knowhelpful for those listening to
be able to just dissect some ofthe things you might not realize
about off-shelf display, thethings you should be
anticipating.
Um, when it comes to making iteasy for your merchant partner

(34:55):
and really articulating how thissolution or the the proposal of
an off-shelf display is going todrive category growth.
You know, you've watched a lotof proposals get turned down and
proposals get approved.
What are some of the things thatyou see between those that you
know tend to be most successful?

SPEAKER_02 (35:15):
Yeah, I think it really depends on the product
and the category.
Some, you know, it comes down tohey, their product price is a
little too high, so they canonly get a certain amount on the
display.

SPEAKER_00 (35:27):
Like just the constraint of not spending that
many millions of dollars tocorrect, or like their product
doesn't have a lot of markets,or you're gonna sell you know
one a week.

SPEAKER_02 (35:36):
Um, yeah, there has to be a strong sell through,
especially if they're only onfloor for four weeks or six,
like whatever that time frameis.
They do have to be able to sellthrough.
Yeah.
And so I think where we comeinto play is we're creating
those planograms and we fullyunderstand the structures and
what can fit in there.
So we're giving brands and eventhe retailers the information to

(35:57):
make better decisions.
Yeah.
And say, hey, you know what?
Maybe we should take this from ahalf pallet and put it onto a
PDQ tray on a four-way.
Yeah.
Like that's gonna make moresense.
Because we take the overallbecause we've ran both cost
scenarios, and you know what,it's still gonna make the same
impact.
Maybe we double up and do twosides on a four-way instead of
this, you know, really fancyin-cap that's gonna, you know,

(36:18):
take away from our margin.
And maybe next time.
So that was realistic.
We'll build in some differentbudgets so that we can do an
in-cap that's gonna have youknow a different impact, or
maybe it is a partnership wherethey're you know, they're
they're doing, you know, I'mtrying to think of a really good
brand that's doing so.
I know like Poppy's done somereally interesting partnerships,
and it's like they're bringingbrands together that may not
necessarily be multi-vendor,right?

SPEAKER_00 (36:40):
These multi-vendor smaller scale than the islander.
Correct.
Just yeah, yeah.
Is that but can you make that aneasy button?
So, like if I'm a merchant andman, I wish I could promote
these two things on the same endcap.
Is that yeah, easier to solve?

SPEAKER_02 (36:53):
Or I think through multi-vendor programs, it's a
very easy solve.
There's not a lot of people thatcan do it as successfully and
efficiently.
And I think that that's why webecome the I like I love the
easy button term.
I think that's why we're thatway.
We were strategically built herein this Bentonville division to
support the merchants and thesuppliers to make those better

(37:15):
decisions so that they can worthnoting, you're not visiting
Bentonville.
No, I I've I've lived here for,you know, I've been with Bay
Cities over 12 years, and youknow, I've lived here for 11 of
those.
And when we built this office,there was five of us.
Yeah.
How many now?
Um, a little over 40.
Okay.
And every one of those teammembers is strategically in

(37:35):
place to support, you know,project management, supply chain
management, logistics.
Yeah.
And these are very complexexecutions where we're taking
possession of a lot of dollarsand we're responsible.
Yeah.
So I I mean, we're very, youknow, blessed and honored and
humbled to have theseopportunities because it is a
big risk to the brands and tothe retailer to make sure these

(37:56):
things arrive in time.
And I think that it's not aspace you know how to execute.
Yeah, and I don't think it's aspace that a lot of people want
to play in because there's highrisk.
Yeah, there's a high reward forthe retailers and the brands if
we can pull this off.

SPEAKER_00 (38:10):
Yeah, and you de-risk it.
We de-risk those for you for youas well.

SPEAKER_02 (38:14):
Because we're, I think because we're an
entrepreneurial company andwe're we're employee owned, we
know those levers internally.
We can play around.
Like sometimes if you'reoutsourcing to another company,
they can't do that because whilewe're stuck on these timelines,
they can call me, like, you knowwhat, we're gonna move some
stuff.
We we're gonna play with the theschedule here, we're gonna do
some overtime.
I know you didn't want that.
We're gonna hit your MABD day,you're gonna look phenomenal,

(38:37):
you're gonna be happy, yourmerch is gonna look really good,
and they're gonna want more ofthis.

SPEAKER_01 (38:41):
Yeah, you know, a great uh secondary location can
really drive business, make itpop.
Yeah, but we've all done thislong enough to know that there
have been a number of displaysthat didn't get the job done.
Yeah.
Um, and that would be,especially for newer people or
newer brands, um, to be able todiscern, you know, is this a
good idea, this this style, thisapproach?

(39:02):
Do you all counsel at all onyes?
Hey, this has worked in thepast, this hasn't worked.

SPEAKER_02 (39:07):
Absolutely.
I think again, it really comesdown to the category because
certain products are more likelyto be in a sidekick over maybe
let's say you're in pet, likeyou're gonna see more sidekicks
over there.
You will see in-casts, butthey're few and far between
because most people are theyknow what they're kind of
looking for over there, but theydo have seasonal campaigns.
So I think there's a you know,and your question is more like

(39:29):
what mistakes are they tryingnot to make?
Yeah, yeah.
Um I think working with partnersthat don't understand the retail
environment, they don'tunderstand that like when they
get into the back room, there'sa whole bunch of boxes, brown
boxes with yellow and pinklabels.
It all looks like yours, it alllooks like yours, even though
that's a part of the styleguide.
Don't do that.
Yeah, be big, be bold, right?

(39:50):
You know, do some you know,caution tape style graphics on
there, yep.
Giant logo.
Where is this going on thefloor?
What time does it need to beset?
When way, yeah, like such adriver.
Where does it need to be set?
Is it immediate set to thefloor?
Rush it to the floor.
What are you putting on therethat's gonna make them know that
this is more important than allthe other stuff in the back

(40:13):
room?
And I know that from experiencebecause I've worked in retail,
I've worked in stores, yeah,front and back.
Yep, and things get missed.
They're focused on other things,especially when they're picking,
especially when they there's somany things going on, and maybe
there's not always resources.
Maybe they end up dropping atruck early.
So now resources are pulledsomewhere else, so they're not
focused on resetting thatprogram.

(40:34):
Yeah, there's a lot.
So I think brands work with usbecause we anticipate all of
those different things, andmaybe we learn something in a
different category that we canapply to theirs, or vice versa.
I think it also comes down toyou know the creativity too.
It's like, hey, look, they'redoing this in OTC, we're not
doing it over here.
You should pitch this, yeah.

(40:56):
Because no one else is doing it.
Yep, and the reason why it's notthere is probably because no one
else is asking for it.
Yeah, totally.
And so I think it's one of thosethings where if you don't ask
the question, the answer is no.
And if you show them that you'recapable of doing it, you're
working with a base cities orsomeone that understands that
environment.
Because there's not too manypeople in this ecosystem that'd
be like, they're like, Oh, yeah,we know base cities.

(41:16):
Yeah, they that's what they do.

SPEAKER_00 (41:18):
Well, I love the like learning from one area and
applying those learnings toothers.
It's a big part of our strategicplacement of we're not trying to
just be in one department, we'reout of the box on purpose.
And frankly, there are somedepartments that have gotten
past the um, oh, we shouldinvest in Omni because we know

(41:43):
it's strategic, but we don'tknow why.
We haven't felt the impact thathave grown through that into oh
no, of course we need Omni.
This is a significant driver ofmy business.
And you don't get there unlessyou're doing the hard work of
you know running fundamentalsand speaking to the customer
through the digital platformsthat exist across the ecosystem.

(42:06):
And we can end up helpingsomeone in one department that
is, you know, frankly, not evenyou know, front of like forward
thinking in another.
Another department's like, well,yeah, of course we're we're
doing that.
Of course we're leveragingWalmart Connect on on search
spend.
And then some department islike, oh, yeah, you should,
that's a great idea.
We should do that.

(42:26):
Um, because there's just there'sa lot of people, there's a lot
of different departments,there's a lot of different um
priorities across the box, andlearning from the things that
work really well and applyingthem to others has been really
effective.
I love that you get to see itacross the box as well.
It's the same you know, trackaround the box, and it's all
retail channels, and they're alldifferent, and they all do it a

(42:47):
little bit different.

SPEAKER_02 (42:48):
And I think you learn from other retailers,
right?
Right.
And I think we kind of talkedabout that in the
pre-conversation.
Is it like there are otherretail channels that are doing
things different?
You know, like I think Sproutsis a really great example of a
retailer that understands theircustomer and what they're
looking for because you see itwhen you walk into their forager
section.
Yeah, you know, you you got theum, you know, the the ketone IQs

(43:12):
out there.
Um, you got the you know,everyday dose now in there, you
got the formless beauty that'sin there.
Like they are really pushingthat type of product in there.
And what's really unique is whenyou go in there, they're sold
out.
Yeah.
It's almost like, oh, you missedit.
And it creates this, oh, I wantto come back, I want to get this

(43:33):
product.
And maybe it is online, it butit's a really good testing
ground.
And I think other retailersshould be paying attention to
them, especially Walmart,because I think there's a lot
that they can learn um from thatkind of strategic hotspot
because they've done things likethat, but not on the level
where, like, hey, here's all theemerging brands that we have,
here's all the better for youproducts that we have.

(43:55):
And maybe that's a mix oflegacy, emerging, and private
label.
Mm-hmm.
Because there are differentpeople that want different
things and they have differentbudgets and different
preferences.

SPEAKER_00 (44:05):
I mean, you could argue that some of the private
brands are in fact emerging atWalmart.
Yeah.
Well, they are.
Done a really good job ofpushing innovation to private
brand.
Um I think there's a lot ofinteresting bits of the future I
expect to see there and love,you know, Better Goods as an
example of just what it's meantuh for the customer and what

(44:25):
they come to expect at Walmart.

SPEAKER_02 (44:27):
Yeah.
And another good example of abrand that's leveraged outside
channels really well, I thinkwas like be Doctor Squatch.
So, like if you go into atractor supply, you're gonna see
an in-cap with their product onthat.
Was that something that youwould expect to see at a tractor
supply?
Right.

unknown (44:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (44:43):
No, and they're doing more of that.
They're looking for betterproducts that are going to meet
their customers' expectations.
Yeah.
But the great thing is, is thoseretailers have such trust built
in to so they they're like, hey,if it's in here, I trust this
brand that they're trying togive me the right, this
retailer, they're trying to giveme the right thing.

(45:04):
So there's there's just so manyinteresting spaces in the
grocery area too that like Idon't believe Walmart takes
advantage of.
Like if you walk into a Krogeror an H E B, like you're gonna
see a lot of floor stands andtest products.
I don't see that a lot in theneighborhood markets or even in
the grocery stores.
It's very clean, which is great,but how are you gonna drive
traffic to these emergingbrands?

(45:26):
Like I think those smallerfootprints with low velocity,
like low product counts, so it'snot a huge investment.
It ships more sustainablybecause you have a smaller
footprint, you're not shippingas much air.
I believe that those areopportunities they need to be
leaning into.
Now, there are brands that aredoing it, like Kenders and
McCormick, and they've kind ofunderstand that ecosystem.

(45:46):
I've seen um a few hydrationcompanies do that as well.
That space is competitive.
Yeah.
But if you're not planning forit, if you're not talking about
it, you will not win it.
Right.
And they're not just gonna handit out to you because why would
I just hand it out to someone?
I don't know if they know how todo it.
Yeah.
So you have to be veryconvincing in that story.
And sometimes it is there,people just dropping.

(46:08):
I'm working with base cities,and they're like, you're good.
Done.
Yeah, we know them.
Love that.

SPEAKER_00 (46:12):
So when we talked about moving quickly and rapid
innovation, we talked a littlebit about how you guys are
leveraging AI.
Yeah, you know, AI is a veryinteresting topic right now as
it can empower a lot ofdifferent work streams.
And specifically in this retailand supplier relationship, it
seems to be coming up a bit moreoften.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (46:32):
To hear your yeah.
I mean, there's so many toolsthat are being leveraged in
retail to make sure thecustomers get what they're
needing, but also retailers andthe brands.

SPEAKER_03 (46:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (46:42):
Um, from our standpoint as a direct
manufacturer and a company thatis a strategic partner for
retailers, you have to thinkabout like that whole process.
Like where we use it in themanufacturing size is to create
efficiencies through the supplychain.
So we understand like whatCorgat needs to be done.
Yeah.
Right.
How do you move things throughour plant better and track

(47:04):
things better or catch things onthe line when it's running
through production so that wedon't have to have waste because
that's things that suppliersdon't ever get to see.
Yeah.
Right.
Like, hey, like this got maybe,you know, the registration's
off.
So now we gotta, you know, ourtools catch that.
They know that those things arehappening, so we can stop the
machine, make the adjustments,keep going.

SPEAKER_00 (47:25):
Yeah.
Um faster you find out oranticipate a problem, the
cheaper it is to solve it.
Right.
Um, yeah.
And so I certainly attend it howwe operate.

SPEAKER_02 (47:33):
Yeah.
And I mean, it's also helping uson the graphic side and the
creative side because we're ableto use some of these tools to
pull these things in faster.
Where things might have taken afew days, we drop a grayscale in
there, we drop in some productimagery and some you know
elements, and we can getsomething quick, right?
Because there's a lot of theserequests, like, hey, I got a
meeting tomorrow.
Like AI is gonna help us getthere faster.

(47:54):
Now, is that gonna be the finalvehicle we go with?
Probably not.
Probably not because we got torun it through structure, we got
to make sure the product sizingand all those things are well.

SPEAKER_00 (48:02):
That expertise is is the critical missing piece.
And AI just simply helps yourjourney uh maybe go smoother or
or or get to that productfaster.
Yeah.
Um, and I love the way that youguys are approaching
facilitating conversations onAI.
I think this episode will airbefore your next event.
You want to give a quickoverview of what that is?

(48:25):
Um, the uh which event is that?

SPEAKER_02 (48:27):
The supplier conversations.
Oh, yeah, supplierconversations.
So I mean, really what that'sabout is really digging into
like how AI is going to bebetter, you know, across the
channel within stores.
Um, you know, our part of thatis just really, you know, making
sure that we can work with thosedifferent technologies that our
brands are using to createbetter information and

(48:49):
understand what we can do tobetter serve not only the
retailers, but the brands thatwe partner with.
Because again, like if you'renot using these AI tools or
you're afraid of them, like youwill be left behind.
Yeah.
And you will lose dollarsbecause there's there's things
that that it's catching thatmost humans aren't catching.

SPEAKER_00 (49:06):
We don't want you left behind.

SPEAKER_02 (49:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (49:08):
That's awesome.
So as we wrap and move to thelightning round, um, would love
to hear kind of what you'reyou're reading.
What are you what are youconsuming these days?
What am I consuming on thereading side?

SPEAKER_02 (49:18):
Oh man.
Or listening, watching,whatever.
That's a really good question.
I wasn't prepared for that one.
Um, I'm I'm reading a lot ofdifferent things.
I think what someone that I'vebeen really following on the
social media side would be GaryV.
Yeah.
And because he he focused moreon like the advertising and
marketing, but it's all aboutgaining attention.

(49:40):
We're in the attention economy.
Yeah.
Like, yeah, and if you're notable to grab attention at every
step of that process, whether itbe on their phone or on their TV
or on YouTube, and driving themback to wherever you need to
drive them, like it doesn'tmatter.
And so, like, you have to standout, you have to be loud, you
have to be doing somethingdifferent.
You know, and I think there aresome really good brands that

(50:03):
are, you know, they'recontroversial, but like that's
that's okay.
Like, you don't want everyone tolike you.

SPEAKER_00 (50:08):
It's also exactly Gary V's style, right?

SPEAKER_02 (50:11):
And I I I just do believe that like if if if
there's anything around that,like that's it, it's an
attention economy.
And if you're not aware thatlike that's the most important
part, like that's just a step.
I know displays, you know, maybesorry, it's not thinking about
that, but like that's what'sgonna get you intention at the
store level.
Cool.
So that's my perspective.

SPEAKER_01 (50:32):
Um, we talk a lot about learning from our
failures.
Yeah, what's your biggest retailrelated failure?
Oh man, not necessarily relatedto us.

SPEAKER_02 (50:42):
I think there's a those are the best kind.
Yeah, there's a lot of ways forbrands to, you know, failure
failures are gonna happen.
I think it's how you respond tofailures, um, and also knowing
which one's gonna be worse,right?
Sometimes neither option isgonna be good, right?
Yeah, um, but which one's goingto have less of an impact on
your business?

(51:02):
I've I've I mean I've seen itall.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think one of the most uh oneof the things that really can
suck up dollars is when you haveto send in an in-store team to
fix something that's just neededto be fixed.
Yep, dollars.
Right.
So I think our goal is to createvehicles that are simple to
execute at the store level byassociates.

(51:22):
Like that's the goal.
If you can't do that, there's ascenario where, hey, your
product didn't arrive on time,the one unit, or maybe it's not
quality or whatever, you ship adisplay partially empty.
So now you're having to pay anin-store team, like a you know,
an Anderson or a Costa orwhoever, yep, to go into stores,
potentially, I'm not gonna giveyou the cost out there, but like

(51:43):
they can.
Yeah, you got to fix it 4,000times and let's use their paying
25 to 40.
I don't know what they're payingfor a store, but like that adds
up really fast.
That could be 150,000 out thedoor, and it was a mistake you
weren't planning for.
Oops, yeah, oops.
And where are you gonna putthose dollars?
Where's that gonna go?

SPEAKER_00 (52:02):
Yeah, no, I think we've uh we've all seen those.
Um it's always uh great when weget to stop it.

SPEAKER_02 (52:09):
Yeah, we get to solve them.
Hopefully you can stop it inadvance.
And I think again, like storefailures, like on displays, and
when I see those, I'm like, man,that partner really dropped the
ball on them.
Yep.
They they did not care enoughabout that brand to make sure
they tested it or reallyfocused.
So retail is things matter.
Yeah, retail is detail.

SPEAKER_00 (52:26):
Does that uh hurt when you find out after you you
shipped it?
Yeah.
All right, last one.
Um, looking ahead over the nextyear, what's something that
you're excited about?
You're anticipating being uhexciting over the next year.

SPEAKER_02 (52:39):
I think there's a lot of new brands that are gonna
be disrupting the space.
Yeah.
Um, you know, Groons, greatexample.
They just got purchased.
Yeah, right.
I mean, that just happened, thatnews just dropped yesterday
yesterday for Unilever.
So I think you're gonna see alot more of that happening,
especially within the mergingbrand space.
And I think that like they'regonna be doubling down on those

(53:01):
off-shelf features.
Like emerging brands that arecoming to market for the first
time, like I mean, for the veryfirst time, are coming to the
table with these options becausethey know the playbook.
They know this has worked forBloom, they know this has worked
for Kinders, they know this hasworked for Dr.
Squatch and all these otherbrands.
And so they know that that's thestrategy, especially if they're

(53:22):
in a competitive space wherethere's some incumbents there
that dominate.
And so they have to stand out.
And the only way to do that isoffshelf.
Yeah.
So, I mean, if if they're not,if that's not in your strategy,
the best of the best, that's howthey're presenting it.
So don't get left behind.
Yeah, because they're gonna sayyes to that supplier versus you,

(53:43):
because you're not bringinganything of value.
Right.
Exciting, definitely somethingto look forward to.

SPEAKER_01 (53:47):
Yeah, yeah.
Joshua, thank you so much foryour time.
It's been a great conversation.
It's been a pleasure.
And thank you all for uhlistening or watching.
As always, you can see all ofour podcasts on our website at
highimpactanalytics.com orwherever you get your podcast.
Thank you.