April 8, 2026 • 49 mins
Work harder, spin faster, end up in the same place. That’s the trap so many leadership teams fall into, and it’s exactly why we brought on Dusty Pruitt, an EOS Implementer who’s helped companies replace stress and guesswork with a clear operating rhythm. Dusty shares the moment he realized his own business needed systems, not more hustle, and how the book Traction became a practical playbook for building a healthier, stronger company.
We dig into the six core components of the Entrepreneurial Operating System: vision, people, data, issues, process, and traction. Dusty explains what “right people, right seats” really looks like (including GWC), how a weekly scorecard brings focus, and why calling problems “issues” matters if you want psychological safety and real truth in the room. We also talk about processes that don’t become a 700-page SOP monster, plus quarterly rocks and 90-day planning that turn effort into forward motion.
Then we connect EOS to real-world decisions in retail and beyond: making capability bets that match your vision, filtering client fit with confidence, and staying ahead of what will be a category issue in four weeks instead of reacting when it’s too late. Dusty also previews his “entrepreneurs as gardeners” idea, a powerful way to think about leadership, growth, and building a place where people can flourish.
Subscribe wherever you listen, share this with a leader who feels stuck, and leave a review so more builders can find the show. What’s the one “issue” your team keeps avoiding right now?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:07):
Hello and welcome to the Retail Journey podcast.
I'm Charles Greathouse, one ofyour hosts.
SPEAKER_02 (00:12):
And I am James Harris.
And today we are talking toDusty Pruitt.
Dusty is an implementer forentrepreneurial operating
systems, also known as EOS.
Dusty, welcome to the RetailJourney.
It's good to be here.
It's good to see you here.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27):
Yeah.
Well, it I was gonna say we arealso not just I'm not just a
podcast guinness here.
No, no, no.
James is one of my very bestfriends in the whole world.
Absolutely.
And um, special note for yourlisteners, uh, you helped me
pull off my engagement to mywife.
I don't know if you rememberthat.
I have a slight.
(00:54):
Come on.
SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
Uh what was fun was uh my first MC gig was your
wedding.
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
MC and DJ, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01):
So MC and DJ.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
Yeah, well, we were on a budget.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
So first and only MC gig.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Yeah, oh, that was the last one.
Yeah, pretty much.
I mean, you're good at that.
There might be something there.
Yeah, James is uh one of thepeople in my life that uh
matters the most.
And so I'm I'm so excited to behere.
And Charles, we have a littleour circles overlap too.
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
Yeah, way back, way back to back in the day,
catfuod, bright-eyed early daysat Walmart, um, even before
then, JBU.
JBU, yeah, that's right.
All the way back.
Yeah, students in freeenterprise, sife.
Yeah, now formerly known asSyfe.
Now uh uh something else, yeah,and and different.
(01:43):
But here we are.
SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
So this is homecoming for me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:46):
Yes, I'm supposed to be here.
SPEAKER_02 (01:47):
Plus, we use EOS.
We use EOS, and Dusty was ourimplementer.
Uh, and if I'm not mistaken, wewere your first client.
SPEAKER_00 (01:56):
One of the first.
SPEAKER_02 (01:57):
One of the first.
Okay.
I've been to saying first, andthat's right.
Probably keep saying that you'rethe first.
You're the first.
You can say that.
So for anybody listening herethat made EOS, this is the first
time they've heard of it.
Uh, give us the give us therundown.
SPEAKER_00 (02:11):
Yeah, EOS is the entrepreneur's operating system
and popularized by a bookprobably 20 years ago now called
Traction.
Uh, and you know, the way I gotinto all of this was I was
running a business.
I so I worked at Nestle.
That's how Charles and I workedtogether.
He was on the Walmart side.
And we grew, I mean, we grewthat category.
(02:32):
That was fun.
That was fun.
That was in my whole CPGexperience.
Cat food.
The well, all of cat food, butspecifically cat food.
Fancy feasts, baby.
Fancy feasts, we friskies, comeon.
Kit and caboodle.
Uh, yeah, that was fun.
Cat owners out there know whatI'm talking about.
Yeah.
So it and it, it was just thatwas so much.
That was my favorite of anythingI did.
Jody was DMM at the time.
Yep.
(02:52):
Yeah.
Yeah, it was great.
Love Jodie.
And then Philip after that.
Uh, Phillip.
Yeah.
So that was so fun.
But anyway, I left Nestle andkind of took this
entrepreneurial pursuit uh for areally small CPG business here
in Northwest Arkansas.
And it was a good business, goodbones, but we needed help.
(03:13):
And I mean, you know this,James.
Like with when you get into asmall business, it's it's almost
addicting.
Like it is so fun.
It is all consuming, but it isreally stressful.
And you get into these things,and it's just like that's part
of the drug, though.
That that's what it is.
Yeah.
It's like you can't not do it,but you have to, you know.
(03:34):
And anyway, uh, we had, I justremember this specific time we
had payroll due.
And you know, when you havepayroll, uh you you pay you pay
it out on Friday, but you got tohave it to the bank on
Wednesday.
Yep.
And it was Monday, we didn'thave the money.
Oh wow.
I was not not that we didn'thave it, but it was like we
can't just keep, you know, yeah,what are we gonna do here?
And that that was really when Ihit this this moment of you
(03:57):
know, it was a lot easier inEsslite when uh the the money
was coming in.
You know, we had wholedepartments of people doing IT.
I was the IT department, I wasHR, and I was just like, Well,
this is not thriving.
I mean, this is barelysurviving.
We're gonna do that.
Yeah, but no bureaucracy.
How about that?
SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
I mean, that's a you get to make all the decisions.
Uh yeah, but it it was turns outthose systems were there for
reasons.
Well, that's how they getthere's a shadow side of how
large and complex you can get,but systems are pretty helpful.
Most pretty helpful.
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
Small businesses don't make it, and that's why.
Yeah, totally.
So anyway, kind of in a fit of Iguess panic.
I mean, I fall asleep prettyeasily, but stress pulls me
right out of sleep.
You know, so it was 2 a.m.
and I was like, well, what arewe gonna do here?
Like and and actually it was itwas it was more vulnerable than
that because I thought maybe Iwas the thing in the way.
(04:54):
Right.
And and that's low, I mean, youknow that that's lonely.
When you're when your businessis not to I've been because of
you.
Who else are you gonna blame?
Yeah.
I mean, it that there's a mirrorand it is uh harsh perspective.
And so anyway, I a friend hadgiven me this book, Traction,
and I was like, Well, I guessthat's what I'm doing tonight.
So, and you know, from betweenthe hours of 2 30 and 8 30, I
(05:15):
was like, and I just I was like,this is what we need.
This is it.
This it was like I was, youknow, you read those books and
you're like, that was writtenabout me.
Totally.
Yeah, it just hit it.
And so I was like, Yeah, we wehave to figure this out.
And so I hired uh what we callan EOS implementer.
Um, this is years ago.
I mean, we're talking 10 or 12years ago.
(05:36):
Uh, so there weren't many.
And he so he was in Iowa and uhmade the trip down and taught us
EOS.
And and in that first, reallythe first day we were in it, uh,
I realized two things.
This is what we've been waitingfor.
And also, I think I would loveto do what he threw there.
SPEAKER_03 (05:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:53):
And so uh it changed everything about our business.
We're having more fun, we weregiving our employees better
jobs, we were serving ourcustomers better.
We were just like we werestarting to flourish, and it was
that became the new addiction.
It's like, how could how healthycan we build this thing?
And so that just that unlocked apassion in my heart for not just
healthy companies, but alsoentrepreneurs, because I really
(06:15):
think entrepreneurs like out ofthe abundance of a healthy
entrepreneur comes opportunityfor everybody else.
Yeah, and I'm like, how do Ichase that for the rest of my
career?
And so that was 10 years ago,uh, more than that now, and I'm
still hard on that.
That's it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
I love that.
Well, and even like back to whenwe met 15, 16, 17 years ago,
yeah.
The the student stand forenterprise, like that was all
entrepreneurial pursuits, addingvalue, creating economic
opportunity where there is none,um, while in a corporate, you
know, yeah, you're in acorporate job, but also like
(06:52):
chasing with extracurricularactivity.
Yes.
How do I help driveentrepreneurship?
SPEAKER_00 (06:56):
I think that's like that's probably a big misnomer
with in the work that I do thatI think people sometimes
misassociate or maybe justreduce entrepreneur to startup.
Right.
Totally.
That's just not it.
Like it's that is so you cantell it's a French word,
entrepreneur.
And it means Is it now?
It is, yeah, you can tell.
How would you say that inFrench?
I don't, I'm not doing that.
Oh, I can't even spell it.
(07:17):
We'll edit it in post.
You can record it for us later.
Oh shit, pretty something likethat.
SPEAKER_03 (07:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:22):
Uh, but it means it's it's it was used, you know,
in the early 1800s first, butit's somebody that takes
something from lesser value tomore value.
And so um, you know, it's notjust zero to something, it's
something that's not great, butit or or is okay, but maximum
optimize.
And right, and so I think youcan be entrepreneurial inside of
(07:44):
big structure and organizations.
My heart is for that person thatthey've got it's like what what
you did here.
It's it's I I'm gonna start thisthing and it's getting
subtraction, wheels under it,and then you just how do we get
through this next ceiling ofcomplexity?
We've got the the bones, butlet's go through.
SPEAKER_02 (08:02):
Yeah, so if you're right, that there, you know,
there's there's a few differentmeanings of the word, right?
There's the what is it literallyof the way we say it as well,
somebody that has a businessthat yeah, you know, is their
source of income, but it's alsoa spirit, right?
And that's the thing you can youcan use anywhere.
Yeah.
As here's where I here's where Iam, here's what I've got, here's
(08:23):
where I want to go.
How do I build the bridge to getthere?
SPEAKER_00 (08:26):
Yeah, and and so the the passion, as over the year,
the decades, and I guess thatI've been doing this, the the
passion is like finding thepeople that have that spirit,
because that that spirit is, youknow, like you do take a risk,
you know.
You're not you are more scaredof the status quo than the
prospect of change.
Right.
And so you you're takingsomething that's comfortable and
(08:47):
it is uncomfortable to grow, butso you have to be
growth-oriented.
You have to want to to do hardthings and and but what it's the
hardest thing you could do andthe most life-giving thing you
can do.
SPEAKER_02 (08:59):
I think we might have worked with you for about
four years, um, and then wegraduated, I suppose, and we we
run our own quarterlies.
Um, and and so I but I canattest from knowing you, from
having worked with you, thatthat passion that you had when
you read the book and were like,we're gonna do this, and now I
want, and now I want to do that,yeah, um, is still there.
(09:22):
Yeah um, but within that, tellus what you know, what EOS is,
what are the what are theprinciples, the fundamentals.
SPEAKER_00 (09:29):
Yeah, yeah.
So I mean, there's it's a lot.
I'll I'll say um as simply as Ican, it's six things.
It's it's my my job is to helpthe leaders of organizations,
the entrepreneur and theirleadership team be profoundly
great at six things.
And and that's what I love aboutit, by the way, because it's
only six things.
Uh the first one is vision.
Like the uh a healthy,high-functioning, profoundly
(09:54):
great organization has absoluteclarity on vision.
And vision, I like we define itas this is where we're going and
how we plan to get there.
And and we don't have toovercomplicate it.
And actually, I tell people, I Ihope when I'm done explaining
this, that you're like, thatsounds really simple because
good, I did my job.
Yeah, it's not complicated, butit is hard.
And so getting really clear on avision is one thing, but then
(10:17):
like you can't just have thebit, you got to get other people
to buy into that as well.
Winston Churchill uh he saidthat leadership is the art of
getting people to want to dowhat must get done.
And you do that with vision, youdon't do that with uh, you know,
threats or or give themsomething to buy.
SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
You're gonna lose your job if you don't do this.
SPEAKER_00 (10:37):
But but it, yeah, exactly.
But it's the leader uh and theleaders that do that.
That's the art of leadership isconnecting the work to the
vision.
So that's the first one.
The next one is people.
Like we have to make sure thatthe organization is full of
great people.
And and so we, you know, JimCollins taught us this right
people in the right seats.
Like that's the the secret.
So, right people, they share,they just fit us, they share the
(10:58):
core values, they fit the vibe.
They're just they're just us.
And you know, I I think most orI tell a lot of the my clients,
like the world is full ofpeople, like a lot, a lot of
great people.
Most of them are not right foryou.
There is just a precious fewgroup of people that that's who
you're supposed to work with.
Those are right people, and thenright seats, you have to be good
(11:19):
at your job.
You have to like innately, God'smade you to do the work.
We call it GWC, get it, want it,and the capacity to do it well.
SPEAKER_02 (11:27):
Um Yeah, a good example of that is there's a
number of people I've wanted tohire over the years, but we
didn't have the spot for it.
Yeah, right.
So I'm I'm would be acquiringthese skills, but we don't need
those skills.
SPEAKER_01 (11:40):
It's uh I mean it's a beautiful way of just having a
conversation with someone.
We've talked to several andbeing able to say, like, I think
you're a right person.
Yeah.
And I don't have the right seat.
SPEAKER_03 (11:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:50):
And it's not like I don't want you, I just I don't
have a seat.
Yeah, yeah.
And also having the disciplineto not just hire someone, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
The right seat.
Yeah, and discipline is I thinkthe word.
Like if there's one word, it'sthat because it's not fun.
Discipline is not fun, right?
It's hard, but but it's good,it's so good, it's so healthy.
So uh vision, where we're going,how we plan to get there,
people, the right people, rightseats.
And you can't achieve a greatvision without great people.
You can achieve a good vision,but not profound.
(12:20):
And I'm not interested inanything but profound, you know,
and then it's really hard to getgreat people without a
compelling vision.
So those things become prettysymbiotic.
Like you we gotta have both ofthose.
So those are the first two.
The second one, the third one isdata.
Um, use and and this is probablya little different from the data
you know, you guys talk about alot.
Like, there's a lot of data outthere.
We have to cut through all ofthat and just what are the most
(12:42):
important things that we need tomeasure to know that our
organization is is movingforward?
And so we we do that throughscorecards, you know, weekly
inputs that create the outcomesreports into the month, end of
the quarter.
Uh, but but really building thatdiscipline of just knowing,
like, and I think even givingclarity to your people, when you
get in your truck on Friday orcar or whatever, and you you
(13:04):
take this big deep breath, thatwas a great week.
Why was it great?
What did you get done?
And then can we quantify that?
Because if we can stack 52 weeksor 13 weeks, we're gonna have
great quarters and great yearsand do that through the
organization.
So the discipline of data, andso when the vision's clear, when
the people are right and thedata is you know, you're
tracking the right things,you're looking at the right
(13:24):
things, but it also reveals thefourth thing issues.
And I think um, you know, I haveI've had groups over the years
not want to call them issues,you know, it's like sometimes
opportunities were or I had onegroup that wanted they wanted to
call them topics, and I'm like,oh wow, but but sometimes we
mask hard truths with softwords, yeah.
Uh, and so they're issues,they're just things we got to
(13:45):
solve.
They are in our way from gettingwhat we want.
And I think I tell people uhoften no issues is an issue.
Yeah, and so if we sit down intoa meeting, and this is probably
a good like tip for listeners,like if you're sitting down into
meetings and you're not gettingto issues, there are issues.
There's no reason for themeeting.
There's no reason for themeeting, and you can send an
email if it's an update.
Yeah, or I'm just I'm way moreworried about the health of your
(14:07):
team.
Right.
Because when the brutal factsaren't coming out, we got
issues.
You have to invite them.
Yeah, mind for them.
SPEAKER_02 (14:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:14):
Uh yeah, mind for issues.
SPEAKER_02 (14:16):
And it has to be an environment where they can speak
up.
Yeah.
Like I assume we'll get to the Cword, the culture word.
SPEAKER_00 (14:23):
I mean, that's where it is.
It's like issue, the yourability to extract issues is a
function of the culture.
Uh, because if we're justdealing with uh table stakes,
like, okay, great, so iseverybody else.
We're trying to be profound andbe great.
So we've got to deal with thehard stuff.
And so that's what issues is.
It's okay to have an issue.
I used to I used to tell ourteam, listen, I I'm not gonna
(14:43):
fire you because you've beenstuck.
I will fire you if you've beenstuck for six months and you
didn't say anything.
Right, yeah, right?
Because issue they start thisbig, we can solve them when
they're this big, but when theysit there and fester, that's the
problem.
And so that's what issues isabout, and just being really
good at getting to the root ofthe issue.
Um, we're not solving symptoms,we're solving root causes.
And when we fix the root, thesymptoms go away.
(15:06):
Otherwise, we're just we built acompany on band-aid.
So that's where you just keepfixing the same problem.
Exactly.
Yeah, and and that's not movingforward.
That's you know, just spinningyour wheels.
Process is a big one for us.
That's the fifth one uh that wework on.
Um there's a right and best wayto do what it is that you do.
The problem is there's also like10 other ways to do what you do.
(15:28):
And I think efficiency andexpertise and uh, you know,
atomic habits taught us thistoo.
Like experience, like our clockcustomer and client experience
comes from a good process.
Uh he James Clear says we wedon't rise to our aspirations,
we fall to the quality of ourprocess.
Yeah.
So it's and and and it's not 700pages, it's seven pages.
(15:51):
And it's not, you know, if I Itell clients a lot of times, if
if we have to like write SOPslike we're coding a human being
to be like we that just meansyou have the wrong person
working in your company.
Yeah.
What we're doing for for rightpeople write seats is we're
giving them the edges and thenwe're letting their talents and
their gifting shine.
So that we're just giving theguards, but they're the ones
(16:12):
doing the work.
And so uh it doesn't have to be700 pages, it can be seven, and
you can build a really greatcompany.
And then the last one istraction.
Um, I've are you are you aPeloton guy?
Uh kind of ish.
Okay, yeah.
Like the Nord, the Nordic track.
SPEAKER_02 (16:27):
Notice he's like, Yeah, yeah.
Notice he didn't even ask me.
SPEAKER_00 (16:30):
Yeah.
Well, I knew I was gonna askyou.
Uh I had this Peloton down inthe basement and I would go down
in the mornings, you know, 5:30,and and I'd get on that for 30
minutes.
I felt like it was blood, sweat,tears.
I'm putting all these wattsthrough the pedals, and I, you
know, heart rate is max, and Iget off that thing 30 minutes
(16:51):
later, and where am I?
Still in my basement.
Yeah, but that's that is thedefinition of spinning the
wheels.
And so traction is just theopposite.
So now you have a gravel bikeand you gravel bike right
outside real tires on realpavement or gravel and same
blood, sweat, tears, same 50 or60 hours a week of effort, but
I'm going somewhere.
(17:12):
And where are we going?
We're going to our vision.
And so I think actually that'sone of the biggest issues people
have.
And I think that's what reallyresonates about what how US
really resonates with people isthey're getting something done.
SPEAKER_03 (17:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:26):
And and hopefully it's aligned to their vision,
but we're not hamster wheelshere.
SPEAKER_02 (17:30):
And one thing leads to another.
It takes me to that Jim Collinsprinciple and good to great.
It might have been built to lasttwo, but it it's the the
flywheel.
Yeah.
That and then and the picturethat worked for me was you
picture like that uh the priceis right spinner, the big one,
you know, where a dollar andfifty cents, that sort of thing.
And assuming it was heavier,like your first pull isn't going
(17:51):
to create that much movement.
But then you pull it again whileit's moving and it's faster, and
then you do it again and againand again, and you start to
really build on you know all ofthose previous actions.
SPEAKER_00 (18:03):
Yeah, it's it's so fun to well.
I mean, ha have you guys foundyour flywheel in this business?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it, you know, it's it's theit takes five, it took five
years probably to get it aroundthe first time.
And then weirdly, once you knewit and you stayed on it, you
spun it once in two years.
(18:23):
And then you spun it once in ayear.
And then you spun it.
Now you're now spent it once aquarter or once, you know.
Right.
And it just and then it becomesreally hard to stop.
It's because it you've sort ofremoved all of the stuff that's
not you.
And now you're just spinningyour flywheel.
And and that is how you build aprofound and and healthy
organization.
And so that's my passion.
(18:44):
I mean, that this is the workGod made me to do.
I love to do it with theleadership teams, and and I I
told you this before, but if ifwe can build healthy
organizations uh that areprofound and that create great
jobs for great people that havefans, you know, like yeah humans
can flourish because of the workwe do.
And I I think that's that's whyI'm here and that's what I'm
(19:04):
supposed to do.
So EOS is just that great uhexpression of that, but that's
my heart.
SPEAKER_02 (19:09):
It's great, great overview, great recap.
Yeah.
And just as a company that'sbeen in EOS for a while, great
benefit.
You know, it was fun with youcoming in here, um, having been
our implementer years ago.
Uh how many years have we beento hot work?
Four, five, six years, whateverit's been.
We started in 18, ended in 22.
(19:30):
There it is.
So four years now.
Um, we're in a differentbuilding.
Uh, we have two to not two and ahalf times the people we had
when we stopped working withyou.
Um, you know, it's pretty coolto kind of reflect on, you know,
EOS is one of the majorcomponents that helped bring us
here.
SPEAKER_01 (19:49):
100%.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, I mean, I came from adifferent environment.
There wasn't EOS.
Yeah.
Um traction can be difficultacross a very, very, very large
organization.
And like having an issue track.
Yeah.
I mean, in that world, it'stheir opportunities.
Yeah.
Um, they weren't issues, they'reopportunities.
(20:10):
And so you had there's there'sthere's a packaging required as
opposed to just a frankness oflike now to be fair, there are
plenty of leaders there's greatthat are just a hundred percent,
and you bring the issue exactlyas it is, bad news travels
faster than good, and we'resolving stuff, and we're yeah,
we're moving forward with speed.
And there's others where like ifyou don't have uh a good bow
(20:32):
alongside it, like don't be themessenger.
SPEAKER_00 (20:35):
You don't want to be that one.
Oh, and you know, I thinkbuilding on that, because you're
a product of the vision.
Like, we didn't write Charles onthe whiteboard when we did this,
but I mean you were I'm gratefulfor for you.
Yeah, just thrilled to be here.
But but it is like the there'sthis is it cathartic, maybe
there's this unbelievableexperience that you have when
(20:58):
you see your vision come tolife.
And and like while you saw it,like you saw it in your mind's
eye, and but you had this weird,this weirdly this confidence
that you could do it, right?
Because you've built it's justbuilt on great quarters, 90 days
at a time.
And then, like, as you'rebuilding the culture and as
you're building this businessand something profound, and like
(21:19):
this moment, the flywheel startsto turn, and then just those
it's like it is just starting toattract the stuff that you saw
in your vision, and then thepeople, you know, because cult
culture is the way that youattract people, it's the magnet,
totally.
So they start coming in and thenand then it just becomes this
thing that I mean, James, I youknow, I love you, but this place
got bigger than you.
(21:39):
And I'm well aware of it.
Yeah, but but it wouldn't havestarted if you didn't do it.
And I think that like that rightthere is why I I I'm obsessed
with entrepreneurs.
I love it because they like seethe future and they create
something that was never there.
Yeah.
And like here we are in thisbeautiful building.
SPEAKER_02 (21:59):
There is
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
uh I will say there is a moment in an entrepreneur's
experience where they have toshift from being primarily
entrepreneurial to beingprimarily a leader otherwise it
won't get bigger than you yeahthat is existential too for
entrepreneurs because therethere are people that they are
(22:21):
really good at they're the zeroto five person and then it's
like I'm bored or or often whatI see is I don't love this
company anymore like I'm doing Idid I had to do an expense
report last week yeah or I orgot too big to be cool or um and
so like they need to find andand have the I I I don't think
(22:44):
it's humility.
I think it's just theunderstanding themselves the
understanding the freedom to saythis isn't what I want anymore.
So it's here it's in place andthen let's put good leaders that
are the five to 15 or five tofit and then lay them go and let
them flourish and I'm gonna goapply my apply my god god
gifting and unique abilityinnate talents to the next one.
SPEAKER_02 (23:04):
Yeah yeah and or to the next thing yeah the next
right like I look at do it againI don't have the same job now
that I had two years ago and twoyears ago I didn't have the same
job I had two or three yearsbefore that.
Yeah um you have to you have toevolve along with the company a
little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (23:19):
Yeah and that's what growth is yeah that that's so
fun I could talk about this allday title hasn't changed but the
the the the work's evolved andum I mean it was really I I
distinctly remember just in thejourney from Walmart to choosing
to to join James and this teamlike the discipline to make hard
(23:40):
decisions was like a huge partof it.
Like it was obvious to me likeyeah this is small which feels
risky but also we know how tomake the hard calls that are the
right thing for our clients forour partners um for where the
long term vision is going and Ibelieve in it.
So let's get after it.
SPEAKER_00 (24:00):
Yeah yeah that's I mean that's music to my my heart
too just that that's what youmade here because it it just you
can serve you know what we talkI talk about this all the time
you guys know this but we getwhat this Zig Ziggler taught us
this but we get out of life whatwe want if we help enough other
people get what they want rightlike that's that's the abundant
mindset.
(24:20):
And so what I love aboutcompanies like this uh and this
is who I'm supposed to work withlike like you guys but you can
just serve profoundly well andyou can do it quickly.
There's not seven layers of justlike no what's the right thing
for the client that's what we'regonna do.
Yeah and and we believe if wehelp enough clients be wildly
(24:42):
successful we're gonna be finebut but our antenna is up on how
we're gonna help first.
And then it's not a risk.
Right.
And I and I think that'sprobably what some of what I
mean it's different when youcame here but um oftentimes when
you come into an environmentthat's that's healthy like I I
you want to be in the gardenthat you're gonna grow in.
Yeah and I would guess you'remore Charles than you were back
(25:02):
then.
Yeah yeah no it's uh that'sgrowth.
SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
I mean it's definitely more more beard uh
more hair quality about yeah noit's um it's fun I I think I
love your comment on anentrepreneur like this is uh
taking something small havingclarity of vision and then
making it just greater lesser tomore small lesser to to more and
(25:28):
like I distinctly remember beingtold Steve Bratsby's former
chief merchant um awesome and Ijust you know if I've got a
conviction about something I'mI'm a hunt um and we were
selling fish oil and I wanted itto be omega threes because the
promise for the customers inomega threes it's not in the
fish oil the oil is just acarrier for omega three omega
(25:48):
threes but yeah it was commonlycalled that and whatever.
And he just looked at me andhe's like you're a glutton for
punishment aren't you becauselike it's an uphill battle to to
fight for what the customerreally needs that they're not
asking for yet.
Like those that are informedknow exactly what they need.
But there are a lot of customersout there that are just buying
(26:08):
fish oil thinking they'regetting the benefits of omega 3s
when they weren't getting asmuch as I think they thought
they were getting and to yourcredit walk a store today and
find a fish oil that doesn'thave omega three well yeah it's
all over it.
But it was an uphill battle andit was uh and it took a lot of
creativity to go from a thingthat frankly the product was
(26:30):
lesser and now it it is betterand and the reward is there.
Um we were just at Expo West youknow natural product trade show
in California one of the largestyou know it's huge.
I remember walking it as avitamin merchant before we went
through all of this and peopleshunned Walmart.
(26:50):
They were like uh uh you guysdon't know how to do this and I
would have my talk track aboutthe organic groceries we were
selling because Walmart wascrushing already yeah organic
groceries and then I had myother talk track which was like
well you're selling on Amazonhow's your relationship with
that robot you know that and itwas never that was always
benevolent towards uh towardsWalmart because that
(27:12):
relationship wasn't good and Iknew it wasn't uh you know for
them and so they like I'm theactual buyer can we like let's
do something yeah becauseAmerica deserves this and I
would start with why you knowwhy are you in this business?
Oh I want to help people behealthier I'm like oh that's
great 130 million Americansevery week shopping in this
store can can we give themexposure to your brand well I
don't know if we can and nowlike the last year I was there
(27:34):
like for four years later I'mgetting physically assaulted by
people because they understoodit was unlocked a couple brave
souls went first and then it waslike this space and I've watched
Walmart do that in so many spotsand I think every time that's
happened there's an entrepreneurin there I mean Sam Walton
obviously an entrepreneur somany entrepreneurs there's so
(27:55):
much in the the the lifeblood ofof Walmart and Sam's and frankly
a lot of the suppliers that arelike looking at how do I take
this and expand it intosomething bigger and greater.
I'd love to hear your thoughtswhen it comes to hey I'm within
a much larger hard to call thisthing entrepreneurial the
company but I am and I'm hereinside of this large company how
(28:17):
do I get traction how do I youknow borrow yeah I'm I mean
that's a good question.
SPEAKER_00 (28:23):
Yeah it can happen because it's a spirit like James
said at the w when we startedlike the I think that when that
I mean the the word you used orthe the comment was like the why
was big enough the road was notthe hill wasn't too steep.
Right.
And it it was just worth doing.
Yeah so to me I I think thatthere's probably two parts like
(28:45):
to to answer that.
The the first one is like youyou have to have this deep
passion to do the work that thatyou do otherwise the the hill's
not worth it.
SPEAKER_02 (28:56):
It's just too hard.
That's so true because therewill be moments where if you
didn't have to do it youwouldn't you wouldn't yeah take
that to the bank I think I'veseen that across every when they
just there's not enough passionthen like the hills are way
bigger.
SPEAKER_00 (29:10):
Yeah yeah they're not worth climbing no for an
entrepreneur you you do like thehills because it it's a roller
coaster and the the highs arereally high but the lows are
really and if the highs weren'tso high the lows would be worth
it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:24):
Yeah but but you also always have the hope and a
low that you can turn it into ahigh.
SPEAKER_00 (29:29):
Yeah there's there's something in you but it's
control.
But I but I think if if the Y isbig enough the road is possible.
So I think that's the firstpart.
And then uh the second thing andand this is where I try to keep
my antenna up is you we're alsolike you need to be operating
inside of your gifting.
And so it's sort of like you'rewiring when your your heart and
(29:50):
your hand you know here we gowith JBU.
Yeah JBU come on over over butwhen your work and your wiring
intersect that's I think that'sprofound work.
Yeah that's the sweet spot.
Yeah and and so it's it's a lotof self-awareness about what
you're good at and and probablymore self-awareness about what
you're not good at.
Yeah and I I I'll just I'll telleveryone this most things you
(30:11):
are not good at uh you biggerthings yeah but but there is
like very there's a precious fewthings that no one can do but
you it's uncompetent and it'sgood.
And I think the more you canmove your design into you know
your time and your energy intothose things and then let that
(30:31):
layer over top of that big whyyeah that's I think when you get
things done.
And so it's good self-awarenessof what you're good at, what
you're not and then the why isjust big enough and then just
I'd say watch out like go seewhat could happen.
I my experience is most peoplewhen you get comfortable those
things start to dilute and thethe the paycheck is big enough
(30:56):
or my you know and and so youyou just you you go you're not
you you downshift and I'm justkind of running out the clock
here and while I mean maybethat's okay I don't know but
that's just not the life I wantto live.
Yeah I that's why I love beingaround entrepreneurs again
because that's not how theylive.
Yeah they're not downshift.
Otherwise why would you sign upfor this?
(31:16):
Yeah I mean that's what I'veyeah I don't understand.
SPEAKER_02 (31:18):
If you got a downshift you need to be putting
it in park and getting out ofthe car.
SPEAKER_00 (31:23):
I had a Boss in the time that he said you're you're
either green and growing oryou're ripe and rotting.
Yeah.
And so I always want to be greenand growing.
SPEAKER_02 (31:32):
So you you've uh you've kind of taken us through
EOS the principles the you knowleads to human flourishing I'm
sure you've got a hundredexamples now haven't done this
for eight ish years, nine ishyears of companies that have
really broken through the moldright and that's probably where
you get your energy I don't wantto dwell on the ones that didn't
(31:54):
but help us contrast yeah youknow the type of company um you
know that that that really winsand the type that just doesn't
quite get there.
Cause man I'm sure it happens.
SPEAKER_00 (32:05):
Yeah I mean it's the qu the answer is probably not
the type of company yeah andit's more the type of leader
that that means it it doesn'tdoesn't happen or doesn't work
or work as well as it could.
You know, I think if you're ifyou're I mean with EOS is not
complicated but it isexceedingly hard.
And we talk about this idea youknow you know the idea of like
(32:27):
mastering your craft like that'sthat's work that's never done.
You're always doing that.
And I think that you know thepeople that don't get the
long-term return from EOS uh arethe ones that just don't want to
do the work.
You know, because it's not it'snot doing different work.
It's doing your work differentlyand and with a different set of
(32:49):
intents the intention and maybedoing it yeah doing things you
hadn't done before doing thosethings.
SPEAKER_02 (32:55):
Yeah like you have to want to grow those are hard
habits to break if you're notinterested in doing it.
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
So I I love it I love it when um an entrepreneur
or a leadership team walks inwith gray hair and limping and
tired and frustrated I meanthey're suffering like it's just
so hard and and because it'slike I can work with that but
but when someone hasn'tstruggled yet or they just this
(33:22):
is a silver bullet or you knowif I just do this it's gonna
that it's worth 10% to the youknow or another point of of
equity at the transaction tableor whatever that's not who you
know so I I actually don't workwith a lot of those
organizations yeah because theirheart's not in it for
transformation.
But if you're coming and you arewilling to grow you're you want
(33:44):
to get better and and it's notabout you it's about this garden
that your people can grow in uhwhich is that's my current
obsession right now this idea ofentrepreneurs as gardeners uh
but if if that's your if that'syou like let's go yeah I I can
work I we can work with that allday long but it's it's emotional
um it's hard it's sticky a lotof businesses are family
(34:09):
businesses and so people havethe same last name yeah uh I
I've ruined more than oneThanksgiving for people it's it
wasn't me I just I just askquestions that's okay but your
cousin's a problem yeah that'sright or worse your son is and
shouldn't be here and does itfit is not the right person in
the right seat and you got todeal with that uh and that might
(34:31):
be the the founder's vision thatI'm gonna hand this off to yeah
my kid or kids one day so it itis you know often we another
core value we talk about a lotis entering the danger and you
you have to roll your sleeves upand swog through the mess yeah
like with people but but they'realso people and they're worth it
and if we can get to the otherside it unlocks you know their
(34:54):
potential and so I just againyou I don't have to sell you I'm
I'm doing what I'm supposed towell EOS was uh was a a great
fit for my kind of um I don'tknow assumptions about life is
that you're gonna get a lot morefrom people putting their minds
together and being uh what's theword safe be yeah psychological
(35:16):
safety but also like I'm contentand that I have what I need but
I'm driven to like go after thething that can unlock so much
more than you got to hit thisnumber in the next 10 days.
Yeah it's or else yeah thatthat's like what you're speaking
to is the principle of abundanceyeah which is the belief that
there's enough yeah and again ifI help enough other people get
(35:38):
what they want I'm gonna getwhat I want the opposite is
scarcity I've got to preserveI've got to protect pie's not
growing the pie's not growing soif you get something then I
don't have it.
If Charles gets one I don't getthat one or no if Charles gets
one and that's we can be threeor five yeah right and so uh
when you can remove thatinsecurity and just get like
(35:58):
beat it out of your head andjust how do I help as many
people get what and and I thinkthat's like the premise of what
when Gino Wickman he created allof this when he did it that was
the going in principle.
Yeah how do we help people getwhat they want from their
businesses so yeah uh I love it.
I love it and I love what it I'mso glad I I tell people I did
(36:19):
not just to be clear witheverybody I did not do this for
higher this was you guys ohsitting in that room and doing
the work I just made you werethe guy I managed the whiteboard
and asked a couple questions.
Yeah and you guys did all thework and I'll I I'm so proud of
you.
SPEAKER_02 (36:34):
Well until we built the muscle you helped push us to
decision.
SPEAKER_00 (36:38):
That's what coaches do.
SPEAKER_01 (36:39):
Yeah good reps with the right technique but you got
it definitely changed theoutcome.
So grateful for you grateful forthe the way EOS has changed the
trajectory of this business.
SPEAKER_02 (36:51):
Well I feel the same that there's an actual place for
me to be yeah yeah that you'rehere because I'm so grateful um
yeah grateful to be here andwe're doing something special
and I'm excited yeah you knowfor our clients our partners I
get spit excited about next athigh end like what's exciting on
the on the horizon for you knowthe our our our vision is that
(37:11):
we're not the biggest um youknow full service brokerage
service provider consultant butthat to our clients we're the
best and to the people that theyinteract with you know uh
through the work that we do thatthat we're the best that they
could have possibly come to.
Yeah um and to bring not justlike to your point earlier not
(37:31):
10% growth we want to helpinform a transformation yeah in
in our companies because I wedon't have any clients because
we are selective we work withgreat companies we don't have
any company any any clients thatdon't want to see their business
transformed.
Yeah so to get to be a a smallpart of that.
SPEAKER_01 (37:49):
Well and what we found is like there's there's a
lot I mean there's a lot ofsuppliers to Walmart and Samps
like that's our that's ourthat's where we're focused but
and a lot of them are contentyou know trying to be good like
just not being out of stock yeahnot being in trouble yeah um
hopefully keeping my items yeahand I we're not real eat up with
(38:11):
that vision.
Like I I want to take peoplefrom good to great.
Yeah and sometimes what got youto Walmart was a very compelling
item and and you know you solvedthe customer need that needed to
be solved and that's awesome.
And two or three years later ifyou don't understand the
category you don't understandthe customer you don't know if
(38:31):
you're growing the category orfrankly if you know that and
hold it with conviction butcan't articulate it to your
merchant like they have to growthe category then that item
might not need to be there.
It certainly doesn't need moreof its you know counterparts and
if the customer is not wellunderstood you're not gonna be
great.
So really deploying what we'vegot you know here and experts
(38:53):
that have years of experience incategory fact-based selling
really taking data from thiscool thing to it's informing
decisions it changes decisionsit it helps you find an issue
that's gonna be big in fourweeks yeah that isn't big right
now and fixing it um oranticipating it before it
happens and that kind of thingisn't gonna happen on accident
(39:16):
um and um and what we've likethe foundation that was like we
crush when it comes to executionbecause without execution
there's no trust there's nolong-term prospect there might
be an an instant or an initialentry but if your vision is to
be long term and sustainedgrowth the execution is the
(39:36):
green fee I don't care how goodyou are at golf yeah yeah but we
got to be there.
But that's just good.
We want to be great and so it'sbeen really fun to see that come
to life um for our clients andget to see the fruit of no when
you earn trust and you have goodsolutions you get to solve more
problems.
And solving problems on behalfof the customer they reward
because they want their problemssolved and you're okay calling
(39:58):
them problems.
SPEAKER_00 (39:58):
Totally because that's where they are and that's
what you do is solve problems.
SPEAKER_02 (40:02):
Yeah I think to your comment Charles about you know
understanding the category ifyou're going to do year two,
year three, but um I think ofthat every time I see a shark
tank item on the shelf.
Right.
Because that item is there now.
It met some need it got someinvestment it got some attention
people are buying it but in twoor three years some of those
brands you see continue toinnovate and continue to scrub
(40:25):
daddy come on right oh nice welldone right but then you know if
if you don't see it then thatthat that item is gone it's out
of memory.
SPEAKER_00 (40:34):
Yeah I I have a question on this so that I heard
two things I heard we're justtrying to be the best that we
can be.
So like be our best that's ouryou know this passionate
pursuit.
And then we you know it's in thename we're not here for
incremental improvement we'rehere for money that's all right
yeah and and you you spoke tolike we we're solving problems
that are two months down theroad not just you know Monday.
(40:55):
Like we're not you're not justmaking Mondays better.
You're making up order of Mondayyou don't get rid of the moles
by by whack and moling.
SPEAKER_02 (41:01):
So really where we're going is to set our
clients up to have their threeyear vision with their core with
their core customers their jointbusiness planning you know let's
get outside of even quarter andannual let's let's build to the
vision which is we want to havefor each break.
SPEAKER_00 (41:19):
Which is different work than if we're just trying
to get on the mod, right?
Yeah like and I think that'sjust so like that long that long
view like we're we're gonna dothe the infrastructure work
early so that we can do the funstuff but you know and and
that's the work.
Yeah we're we're gonna stackquarters yeah until we get to
our vision and I I think that'sthe power of of the 90 day world
(41:42):
I was gonna so knowing that yougot this is what you're trying
to build it's gonna be profoundhave this high impact I'm I'm
curious and I'm asking thisquestion a lot so I'm really
curious how how does that giveor not give clarity to like hard
decisions we have to hire thisrole do we have the payroll line
is this a client fit or not?
(42:03):
Like how how does that become afilter how does the vision that
you know come down to thosekinds of decisions like does it
take the burden of decisionmaking off quite a bit I think
yeah to tell me I'm well likeyou know Nielsen's a great
partner to us now and thedecision to invest in Nielsen
data is a direct result.
SPEAKER_01 (42:22):
Like you can't be a great partner without
understanding the rest of themarket we're going to be the
best we have to do this.
You have to understand wherethis is going.
Yeah our digital team thatfocuses on e-commerce like do
you need that to stay off thenaughty list?
Probably not do you need it togrow to plant seeds for future
in-store innovation yeah you do.
(42:43):
Do you need category centricstorytelling in ways that
compels a completely differentunderstanding of what drove this
uh category forward or is thishigh growth item you know a
contributor or not uh or what'shappening outside in the blind
spots because you know there'sthere's a lot of innovation that
happens D to C and that startsin some sort of ancillary
(43:07):
channels that are harder to getstrong visibility to starts a
snowball.
And then that but if you're notaware of it by the time it's
significant you're late you'resuper late.
SPEAKER_02 (43:16):
And in terms of running this business it
absolutely informs thosedecisions right like there's
certain clients um let let'sjust stick with categories
there's certain categories thataren't a good fit for us.
Like you can't not that many youcan't be the best at it.
Right.
We could do it and we could getyou to good on a really huge
apparel assortment but we'regonna probably it's not refer
(43:38):
you to somebody that could dothat better.
SPEAKER_00 (43:40):
That's the abundant mindset is if if I can't be the
best for you, I don't want to doit.
Yeah right I know someone thatcan do better.
And and you're not scared thatthat person's gonna get this new
client.
SPEAKER_02 (43:51):
Yeah and it's super critical on hiring right
particularly at the leadershiplevel but really at any level.
So let back to that earliercomment I made where some
Sometimes you you meet a personlike man, you would be a rock
star at this job, but we havethis job, right?
Um, and if being really good atwhat they're good at isn't part
(44:11):
of the vision, then it's an easyno.
SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
And they're not gonna flourish here, right?
Yeah, and again, if we're goodgardeners, we're putting the
seeds in our garden that aregonna flourish.
But if not, there are othergardens.
Yeah, let them go be there.
I love the gardener analogy,though that about yeah, I'm
we're I'm I'm working it.
SPEAKER_01 (44:28):
I'm still I'm still the perfect old Donnie Smith,
you know, peach tree analogy.
He was a good mentor.
Yeah.
Um, but we're we're towards theend.
We'd like to do a lightninground to get some zingers uh out
there.
You know, I like to hear uhabout your your biggest retail.
SPEAKER_02 (44:46):
So um one of the things, you know, what are you
reading?
Also, what are you reading?
What are you listening to?
What podcast, what what are youconsuming right now?
SPEAKER_00 (44:55):
A lot of things.
Uh the this moment, like lastnight, I'm reading, uh, I'm
doing a big talk on you know theconcept of rocks in EOS.
Yeah, yeah.
And so every quarter.
But your quarterly yeah, everyquarter we get to yeah, rocks
are most important outcomes ourorganization must achieve in the
next 90 days.
Uh, we all as EOS implementersget together every 90 days
(45:18):
ourselves and eat our own dogfood and good dive into deep
dive into you know one of thetools that we teach our clients.
And so it's rocks this quarter.
And so I'm leading our EOSimplementer community through
this.
And so I'm learning a lot aboutrocks.
Uh, I just finished the I mean,I do I'm about I'm about ancient
literary, like I like the oldstuff.
So Peter Drucker has thisincredible book called The Uh
(45:42):
Effective Executive, and justthe snippet of it that's so good
is uh he he said, and thisspeaks specifically to rocks,
but he says effective executivesare profoundly great at putting
first things first and doingsecond things, not at all.
Yeah, and so it's just this thisruthless elimination of anything
(46:03):
that's not most important.
SPEAKER_01 (46:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (46:05):
So I just finished that last night, and then I'm I
I'm always working throughsomething from Stephen Covey,
Jim Collins.
I'm a big Patrick Lynchy on it.
The classics.
Yeah, I mean that if it's not 25years old, I I'm not sure it's
for me.
You don't trust it.
Yeah.
Um, podcast-wise, uh I there's alot of podcasts.
We have a lot of EOS people inour community that do podcasts,
(46:27):
and uh what one of them, theretail journey.
I listened to that.
Let's go.
Nice.
SPEAKER_01 (46:32):
All right, I'm gonna reward you with that.
With uh what was your greatestuh retail blunder in your life
journey?
As a consumer or as a as a uhyou were the CPG world, so I'm
sure there was some fun, like,oh whoops, learn from that.
SPEAKER_00 (46:46):
Man, um we had, I mean, like one thing I'm
thinking of right now, uh, thiswas in the dog food category,
and we had a kind of a cerealbox of dog food, and we had a in
I don't know if they're stillcalled in caps.
We've been out of it so long,but they're still called in
caps, you know.
And we had an opportunity to gothrough there and a buyer that
was interested in it.
(47:07):
And so we did this whole thing,and I don't I think it was all
the stores of but it but we werewe sold them for a dollar, and
so it while it was like acompelling thing to pick off the
shelf, we the margin was therefor us, it just wasn't a great
use of space.
And I got called into theprincipal's office an hour.
What did you do?
There were a lot of principal'soffices.
(47:29):
Yeah, uh, but you know what?
You it was a great learning, andwe learned forward from that.
Uh and but it was I would saythat was uh yeah, a little box
of box of dog food cereal.
Yeah, I missed the fairway onthat one.
SPEAKER_02 (47:40):
Not not so much, and this uh using EOS terms, this is
the visionary in me.
But what are you looking forwardto over the next year, next 12
months?
In my life or my work, in yourwork, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:50):
Yeah, I mean I mean, I am in the process of a book uh
that I am uh get getting readyto I'm we're I'm in the
manuscript right now.
Let's go.
Uh I'm looking forward, I thinkso.
What I'm looking forward to isit being over.
Yeah, I'm not looking forward toit.
Like complete.
Yeah, it's being completebecause uh it is hard to sit
(48:10):
there and write.
SPEAKER_02 (48:11):
What's the topic?
What's the book about?
SPEAKER_00 (48:13):
Uh entrepreneurs that are gardeners.
All right.
Let's go, baby.
Uh more to come.
Let's cultivate.
Yeah, let's cultivate.
Ooh, that's good.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let's cultivate TM.
Guys, this was awesome.
Yeah, thank you so much forjoining us.
So thanks for letting me comehere.
SPEAKER_02 (48:29):
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (48:30):
Where can the uh where can the people find you?
Yes, yes, yes.
Oh man.
Um EOSworldwide.com.
You can search my name under EOSimplementers.
And I would love to if you're anentrepreneur and you're looking
for traction in your business, Iwould love to have a
conversation with you.
I have a little office down inFayetteville or a Zoom meeting,
but um Yeah, email address.
(48:52):
Yeah, Dustin.pruitt atEosworldwide.com.
Awesome.
And Cassandra will get theshe'll answer it and we'll get
it set up.
And I don't I don't, I'm notgood at email, so she'll take it
and get us get us set up.
But I appreciate you guys.
I'm grateful.
Yeah, appreciate you.
Good work.
I'm proud of you too.
SPEAKER_02 (49:07):
Thank you all for listening.
Uh, as always, you can find allof our episodes on our website
at high impactanalytics.com orwherever you get your podcast.
Thank you.
Hello and welcome to the Retail Journey podcast.
I'm Charles Greathouse, one ofyour hosts.
SPEAKER_02 (00:12):
And I am James Harris.
And today we are talking toDusty Pruitt.
Dusty is an implementer forentrepreneurial operating
systems, also known as EOS.
Dusty, welcome to the RetailJourney.
It's good to be here.
It's good to see you here.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27):
Yeah.
Well, it I was gonna say we arealso not just I'm not just a
podcast guinness here.
No, no, no.
James is one of my very bestfriends in the whole world.
Absolutely.
And um, special note for yourlisteners, uh, you helped me
pull off my engagement to mywife.
I don't know if you rememberthat.
I have a slight.
(00:54):
Come on.
SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
Uh what was fun was uh my first MC gig was your
wedding.
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
MC and DJ, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01):
So MC and DJ.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
Yeah, well, we were on a budget.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
So first and only MC gig.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Yeah, oh, that was the last one.
Yeah, pretty much.
I mean, you're good at that.
There might be something there.
Yeah, James is uh one of thepeople in my life that uh
matters the most.
And so I'm I'm so excited to behere.
And Charles, we have a littleour circles overlap too.
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
Yeah, way back, way back to back in the day,
catfuod, bright-eyed early daysat Walmart, um, even before
then, JBU.
JBU, yeah, that's right.
All the way back.
Yeah, students in freeenterprise, sife.
Yeah, now formerly known asSyfe.
Now uh uh something else, yeah,and and different.
(01:43):
But here we are.
SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
So this is homecoming for me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:46):
Yes, I'm supposed to be here.
SPEAKER_02 (01:47):
Plus, we use EOS.
We use EOS, and Dusty was ourimplementer.
Uh, and if I'm not mistaken, wewere your first client.
SPEAKER_00 (01:56):
One of the first.
SPEAKER_02 (01:57):
One of the first.
Okay.
I've been to saying first, andthat's right.
Probably keep saying that you'rethe first.
You're the first.
You can say that.
So for anybody listening herethat made EOS, this is the first
time they've heard of it.
Uh, give us the give us therundown.
SPEAKER_00 (02:11):
Yeah, EOS is the entrepreneur's operating system
and popularized by a bookprobably 20 years ago now called
Traction.
Uh, and you know, the way I gotinto all of this was I was
running a business.
I so I worked at Nestle.
That's how Charles and I workedtogether.
He was on the Walmart side.
And we grew, I mean, we grewthat category.
(02:32):
That was fun.
That was fun.
That was in my whole CPGexperience.
Cat food.
The well, all of cat food, butspecifically cat food.
Fancy feasts, baby.
Fancy feasts, we friskies, comeon.
Kit and caboodle.
Uh, yeah, that was fun.
Cat owners out there know whatI'm talking about.
Yeah.
So it and it, it was just thatwas so much.
That was my favorite of anythingI did.
Jody was DMM at the time.
Yep.
(02:52):
Yeah.
Yeah, it was great.
Love Jodie.
And then Philip after that.
Uh, Phillip.
Yeah.
So that was so fun.
But anyway, I left Nestle andkind of took this
entrepreneurial pursuit uh for areally small CPG business here
in Northwest Arkansas.
And it was a good business, goodbones, but we needed help.
(03:13):
And I mean, you know this,James.
Like with when you get into asmall business, it's it's almost
addicting.
Like it is so fun.
It is all consuming, but it isreally stressful.
And you get into these things,and it's just like that's part
of the drug, though.
That that's what it is.
Yeah.
It's like you can't not do it,but you have to, you know.
(03:34):
And anyway, uh, we had, I justremember this specific time we
had payroll due.
And you know, when you havepayroll, uh you you pay you pay
it out on Friday, but you got tohave it to the bank on
Wednesday.
Yep.
And it was Monday, we didn'thave the money.
Oh wow.
I was not not that we didn'thave it, but it was like we
can't just keep, you know, yeah,what are we gonna do here?
And that that was really when Ihit this this moment of you
(03:57):
know, it was a lot easier inEsslite when uh the the money
was coming in.
You know, we had wholedepartments of people doing IT.
I was the IT department, I wasHR, and I was just like, Well,
this is not thriving.
I mean, this is barelysurviving.
We're gonna do that.
Yeah, but no bureaucracy.
How about that?
SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
I mean, that's a you get to make all the decisions.
Uh yeah, but it it was turns outthose systems were there for
reasons.
Well, that's how they getthere's a shadow side of how
large and complex you can get,but systems are pretty helpful.
Most pretty helpful.
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
Small businesses don't make it, and that's why.
Yeah, totally.
So anyway, kind of in a fit of Iguess panic.
I mean, I fall asleep prettyeasily, but stress pulls me
right out of sleep.
You know, so it was 2 a.m.
and I was like, well, what arewe gonna do here?
Like and and actually it was itwas it was more vulnerable than
that because I thought maybe Iwas the thing in the way.
(04:54):
Right.
And and that's low, I mean, youknow that that's lonely.
When you're when your businessis not to I've been because of
you.
Who else are you gonna blame?
Yeah.
I mean, it that there's a mirrorand it is uh harsh perspective.
And so anyway, I a friend hadgiven me this book, Traction,
and I was like, Well, I guessthat's what I'm doing tonight.
So, and you know, from betweenthe hours of 2 30 and 8 30, I
(05:15):
was like, and I just I was like,this is what we need.
This is it.
This it was like I was, youknow, you read those books and
you're like, that was writtenabout me.
Totally.
Yeah, it just hit it.
And so I was like, Yeah, we wehave to figure this out.
And so I hired uh what we callan EOS implementer.
Um, this is years ago.
I mean, we're talking 10 or 12years ago.
(05:36):
Uh, so there weren't many.
And he so he was in Iowa and uhmade the trip down and taught us
EOS.
And and in that first, reallythe first day we were in it, uh,
I realized two things.
This is what we've been waitingfor.
And also, I think I would loveto do what he threw there.
SPEAKER_03 (05:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:53):
And so uh it changed everything about our business.
We're having more fun, we weregiving our employees better
jobs, we were serving ourcustomers better.
We were just like we werestarting to flourish, and it was
that became the new addiction.
It's like, how could how healthycan we build this thing?
And so that just that unlocked apassion in my heart for not just
healthy companies, but alsoentrepreneurs, because I really
(06:15):
think entrepreneurs like out ofthe abundance of a healthy
entrepreneur comes opportunityfor everybody else.
Yeah, and I'm like, how do Ichase that for the rest of my
career?
And so that was 10 years ago,uh, more than that now, and I'm
still hard on that.
That's it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
I love that.
Well, and even like back to whenwe met 15, 16, 17 years ago,
yeah.
The the student stand forenterprise, like that was all
entrepreneurial pursuits, addingvalue, creating economic
opportunity where there is none,um, while in a corporate, you
know, yeah, you're in acorporate job, but also like
(06:52):
chasing with extracurricularactivity.
Yes.
How do I help driveentrepreneurship?
SPEAKER_00 (06:56):
I think that's like that's probably a big misnomer
with in the work that I do thatI think people sometimes
misassociate or maybe justreduce entrepreneur to startup.
Right.
Totally.
That's just not it.
Like it's that is so you cantell it's a French word,
entrepreneur.
And it means Is it now?
It is, yeah, you can tell.
How would you say that inFrench?
I don't, I'm not doing that.
Oh, I can't even spell it.
(07:17):
We'll edit it in post.
You can record it for us later.
Oh shit, pretty something likethat.
SPEAKER_03 (07:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:22):
Uh, but it means it's it's it was used, you know,
in the early 1800s first, butit's somebody that takes
something from lesser value tomore value.
And so um, you know, it's notjust zero to something, it's
something that's not great, butit or or is okay, but maximum
optimize.
And right, and so I think youcan be entrepreneurial inside of
(07:44):
big structure and organizations.
My heart is for that person thatthey've got it's like what what
you did here.
It's it's I I'm gonna start thisthing and it's getting
subtraction, wheels under it,and then you just how do we get
through this next ceiling ofcomplexity?
We've got the the bones, butlet's go through.
SPEAKER_02 (08:02):
Yeah, so if you're right, that there, you know,
there's there's a few differentmeanings of the word, right?
There's the what is it literallyof the way we say it as well,
somebody that has a businessthat yeah, you know, is their
source of income, but it's alsoa spirit, right?
And that's the thing you can youcan use anywhere.
Yeah.
As here's where I here's where Iam, here's what I've got, here's
(08:23):
where I want to go.
How do I build the bridge to getthere?
SPEAKER_00 (08:26):
Yeah, and and so the the passion, as over the year,
the decades, and I guess thatI've been doing this, the the
passion is like finding thepeople that have that spirit,
because that that spirit is, youknow, like you do take a risk,
you know.
You're not you are more scaredof the status quo than the
prospect of change.
Right.
And so you you're takingsomething that's comfortable and
(08:47):
it is uncomfortable to grow, butso you have to be
growth-oriented.
You have to want to to do hardthings and and but what it's the
hardest thing you could do andthe most life-giving thing you
can do.
SPEAKER_02 (08:59):
I think we might have worked with you for about
four years, um, and then wegraduated, I suppose, and we we
run our own quarterlies.
Um, and and so I but I canattest from knowing you, from
having worked with you, thatthat passion that you had when
you read the book and were like,we're gonna do this, and now I
want, and now I want to do that,yeah, um, is still there.
(09:22):
Yeah um, but within that, tellus what you know, what EOS is,
what are the what are theprinciples, the fundamentals.
SPEAKER_00 (09:29):
Yeah, yeah.
So I mean, there's it's a lot.
I'll I'll say um as simply as Ican, it's six things.
It's it's my my job is to helpthe leaders of organizations,
the entrepreneur and theirleadership team be profoundly
great at six things.
And and that's what I love aboutit, by the way, because it's
only six things.
Uh the first one is vision.
Like the uh a healthy,high-functioning, profoundly
(09:54):
great organization has absoluteclarity on vision.
And vision, I like we define itas this is where we're going and
how we plan to get there.
And and we don't have toovercomplicate it.
And actually, I tell people, I Ihope when I'm done explaining
this, that you're like, thatsounds really simple because
good, I did my job.
Yeah, it's not complicated, butit is hard.
And so getting really clear on avision is one thing, but then
(10:17):
like you can't just have thebit, you got to get other people
to buy into that as well.
Winston Churchill uh he saidthat leadership is the art of
getting people to want to dowhat must get done.
And you do that with vision, youdon't do that with uh, you know,
threats or or give themsomething to buy.
SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
You're gonna lose your job if you don't do this.
SPEAKER_00 (10:37):
But but it, yeah, exactly.
But it's the leader uh and theleaders that do that.
That's the art of leadership isconnecting the work to the
vision.
So that's the first one.
The next one is people.
Like we have to make sure thatthe organization is full of
great people.
And and so we, you know, JimCollins taught us this right
people in the right seats.
Like that's the the secret.
So, right people, they share,they just fit us, they share the
(10:58):
core values, they fit the vibe.
They're just they're just us.
And you know, I I think most orI tell a lot of the my clients,
like the world is full ofpeople, like a lot, a lot of
great people.
Most of them are not right foryou.
There is just a precious fewgroup of people that that's who
you're supposed to work with.
Those are right people, and thenright seats, you have to be good
(11:19):
at your job.
You have to like innately, God'smade you to do the work.
We call it GWC, get it, want it,and the capacity to do it well.
SPEAKER_02 (11:27):
Um Yeah, a good example of that is there's a
number of people I've wanted tohire over the years, but we
didn't have the spot for it.
Yeah, right.
So I'm I'm would be acquiringthese skills, but we don't need
those skills.
SPEAKER_01 (11:40):
It's uh I mean it's a beautiful way of just having a
conversation with someone.
We've talked to several andbeing able to say, like, I think
you're a right person.
Yeah.
And I don't have the right seat.
SPEAKER_03 (11:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:50):
And it's not like I don't want you, I just I don't
have a seat.
Yeah, yeah.
And also having the disciplineto not just hire someone, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
The right seat.
Yeah, and discipline is I thinkthe word.
Like if there's one word, it'sthat because it's not fun.
Discipline is not fun, right?
It's hard, but but it's good,it's so good, it's so healthy.
So uh vision, where we're going,how we plan to get there,
people, the right people, rightseats.
And you can't achieve a greatvision without great people.
You can achieve a good vision,but not profound.
(12:20):
And I'm not interested inanything but profound, you know,
and then it's really hard to getgreat people without a
compelling vision.
So those things become prettysymbiotic.
Like you we gotta have both ofthose.
So those are the first two.
The second one, the third one isdata.
Um, use and and this is probablya little different from the data
you know, you guys talk about alot.
Like, there's a lot of data outthere.
We have to cut through all ofthat and just what are the most
(12:42):
important things that we need tomeasure to know that our
organization is is movingforward?
And so we we do that throughscorecards, you know, weekly
inputs that create the outcomesreports into the month, end of
the quarter.
Uh, but but really building thatdiscipline of just knowing,
like, and I think even givingclarity to your people, when you
get in your truck on Friday orcar or whatever, and you you
(13:04):
take this big deep breath, thatwas a great week.
Why was it great?
What did you get done?
And then can we quantify that?
Because if we can stack 52 weeksor 13 weeks, we're gonna have
great quarters and great yearsand do that through the
organization.
So the discipline of data, andso when the vision's clear, when
the people are right and thedata is you know, you're
tracking the right things,you're looking at the right
(13:24):
things, but it also reveals thefourth thing issues.
And I think um, you know, I haveI've had groups over the years
not want to call them issues,you know, it's like sometimes
opportunities were or I had onegroup that wanted they wanted to
call them topics, and I'm like,oh wow, but but sometimes we
mask hard truths with softwords, yeah.
Uh, and so they're issues,they're just things we got to
(13:45):
solve.
They are in our way from gettingwhat we want.
And I think I tell people uhoften no issues is an issue.
Yeah, and so if we sit down intoa meeting, and this is probably
a good like tip for listeners,like if you're sitting down into
meetings and you're not gettingto issues, there are issues.
There's no reason for themeeting.
There's no reason for themeeting, and you can send an
email if it's an update.
Yeah, or I'm just I'm way moreworried about the health of your
(14:07):
team.
Right.
Because when the brutal factsaren't coming out, we got
issues.
You have to invite them.
Yeah, mind for them.
SPEAKER_02 (14:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:14):
Uh yeah, mind for issues.
SPEAKER_02 (14:16):
And it has to be an environment where they can speak
up.
Yeah.
Like I assume we'll get to the Cword, the culture word.
SPEAKER_00 (14:23):
I mean, that's where it is.
It's like issue, the yourability to extract issues is a
function of the culture.
Uh, because if we're justdealing with uh table stakes,
like, okay, great, so iseverybody else.
We're trying to be profound andbe great.
So we've got to deal with thehard stuff.
And so that's what issues is.
It's okay to have an issue.
I used to I used to tell ourteam, listen, I I'm not gonna
(14:43):
fire you because you've beenstuck.
I will fire you if you've beenstuck for six months and you
didn't say anything.
Right, yeah, right?
Because issue they start thisbig, we can solve them when
they're this big, but when theysit there and fester, that's the
problem.
And so that's what issues isabout, and just being really
good at getting to the root ofthe issue.
Um, we're not solving symptoms,we're solving root causes.
And when we fix the root, thesymptoms go away.
(15:06):
Otherwise, we're just we built acompany on band-aid.
So that's where you just keepfixing the same problem.
Exactly.
Yeah, and and that's not movingforward.
That's you know, just spinningyour wheels.
Process is a big one for us.
That's the fifth one uh that wework on.
Um there's a right and best wayto do what it is that you do.
The problem is there's also like10 other ways to do what you do.
(15:28):
And I think efficiency andexpertise and uh, you know,
atomic habits taught us thistoo.
Like experience, like our clockcustomer and client experience
comes from a good process.
Uh he James Clear says we wedon't rise to our aspirations,
we fall to the quality of ourprocess.
Yeah.
So it's and and and it's not 700pages, it's seven pages.
(15:51):
And it's not, you know, if I Itell clients a lot of times, if
if we have to like write SOPslike we're coding a human being
to be like we that just meansyou have the wrong person
working in your company.
Yeah.
What we're doing for for rightpeople write seats is we're
giving them the edges and thenwe're letting their talents and
their gifting shine.
So that we're just giving theguards, but they're the ones
(16:12):
doing the work.
And so uh it doesn't have to be700 pages, it can be seven, and
you can build a really greatcompany.
And then the last one istraction.
Um, I've are you are you aPeloton guy?
Uh kind of ish.
Okay, yeah.
Like the Nord, the Nordic track.
SPEAKER_02 (16:27):
Notice he's like, Yeah, yeah.
Notice he didn't even ask me.
SPEAKER_00 (16:30):
Yeah.
Well, I knew I was gonna askyou.
Uh I had this Peloton down inthe basement and I would go down
in the mornings, you know, 5:30,and and I'd get on that for 30
minutes.
I felt like it was blood, sweat,tears.
I'm putting all these wattsthrough the pedals, and I, you
know, heart rate is max, and Iget off that thing 30 minutes
(16:51):
later, and where am I?
Still in my basement.
Yeah, but that's that is thedefinition of spinning the
wheels.
And so traction is just theopposite.
So now you have a gravel bikeand you gravel bike right
outside real tires on realpavement or gravel and same
blood, sweat, tears, same 50 or60 hours a week of effort, but
I'm going somewhere.
(17:12):
And where are we going?
We're going to our vision.
And so I think actually that'sone of the biggest issues people
have.
And I think that's what reallyresonates about what how US
really resonates with people isthey're getting something done.
SPEAKER_03 (17:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:26):
And and hopefully it's aligned to their vision,
but we're not hamster wheelshere.
SPEAKER_02 (17:30):
And one thing leads to another.
It takes me to that Jim Collinsprinciple and good to great.
It might have been built to lasttwo, but it it's the the
flywheel.
Yeah.
That and then and the picturethat worked for me was you
picture like that uh the priceis right spinner, the big one,
you know, where a dollar andfifty cents, that sort of thing.
And assuming it was heavier,like your first pull isn't going
(17:51):
to create that much movement.
But then you pull it again whileit's moving and it's faster, and
then you do it again and againand again, and you start to
really build on you know all ofthose previous actions.
SPEAKER_00 (18:03):
Yeah, it's it's so fun to well.
I mean, ha have you guys foundyour flywheel in this business?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it, you know, it's it's theit takes five, it took five
years probably to get it aroundthe first time.
And then weirdly, once you knewit and you stayed on it, you
spun it once in two years.
(18:23):
And then you spun it once in ayear.
And then you spun it.
Now you're now spent it once aquarter or once, you know.
Right.
And it just and then it becomesreally hard to stop.
It's because it you've sort ofremoved all of the stuff that's
not you.
And now you're just spinningyour flywheel.
And and that is how you build aprofound and and healthy
organization.
And so that's my passion.
(18:44):
I mean, that this is the workGod made me to do.
I love to do it with theleadership teams, and and I I
told you this before, but if ifwe can build healthy
organizations uh that areprofound and that create great
jobs for great people that havefans, you know, like yeah humans
can flourish because of the workwe do.
And I I think that's that's whyI'm here and that's what I'm
(19:04):
supposed to do.
So EOS is just that great uhexpression of that, but that's
my heart.
SPEAKER_02 (19:09):
It's great, great overview, great recap.
Yeah.
And just as a company that'sbeen in EOS for a while, great
benefit.
You know, it was fun with youcoming in here, um, having been
our implementer years ago.
Uh how many years have we beento hot work?
Four, five, six years, whateverit's been.
We started in 18, ended in 22.
(19:30):
There it is.
So four years now.
Um, we're in a differentbuilding.
Uh, we have two to not two and ahalf times the people we had
when we stopped working withyou.
Um, you know, it's pretty coolto kind of reflect on, you know,
EOS is one of the majorcomponents that helped bring us
here.
SPEAKER_01 (19:49):
100%.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, I mean, I came from adifferent environment.
There wasn't EOS.
Yeah.
Um traction can be difficultacross a very, very, very large
organization.
And like having an issue track.
Yeah.
I mean, in that world, it'stheir opportunities.
Yeah.
Um, they weren't issues, they'reopportunities.
(20:10):
And so you had there's there'sthere's a packaging required as
opposed to just a frankness oflike now to be fair, there are
plenty of leaders there's greatthat are just a hundred percent,
and you bring the issue exactlyas it is, bad news travels
faster than good, and we'resolving stuff, and we're yeah,
we're moving forward with speed.
And there's others where like ifyou don't have uh a good bow
(20:32):
alongside it, like don't be themessenger.
SPEAKER_00 (20:35):
You don't want to be that one.
Oh, and you know, I thinkbuilding on that, because you're
a product of the vision.
Like, we didn't write Charles onthe whiteboard when we did this,
but I mean you were I'm gratefulfor for you.
Yeah, just thrilled to be here.
But but it is like the there'sthis is it cathartic, maybe
there's this unbelievableexperience that you have when
(20:58):
you see your vision come tolife.
And and like while you saw it,like you saw it in your mind's
eye, and but you had this weird,this weirdly this confidence
that you could do it, right?
Because you've built it's justbuilt on great quarters, 90 days
at a time.
And then, like, as you'rebuilding the culture and as
you're building this businessand something profound, and like
(21:19):
this moment, the flywheel startsto turn, and then just those
it's like it is just starting toattract the stuff that you saw
in your vision, and then thepeople, you know, because cult
culture is the way that youattract people, it's the magnet,
totally.
So they start coming in and thenand then it just becomes this
thing that I mean, James, I youknow, I love you, but this place
got bigger than you.
(21:39):
And I'm well aware of it.
Yeah, but but it wouldn't havestarted if you didn't do it.
And I think that like that rightthere is why I I I'm obsessed
with entrepreneurs.
I love it because they like seethe future and they create
something that was never there.
Yeah.
And like here we are in thisbeautiful building.
SPEAKER_02 (21:59):
There is
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
uh I will say there is a moment in an entrepreneur's
experience where they have toshift from being primarily
entrepreneurial to beingprimarily a leader otherwise it
won't get bigger than you yeahthat is existential too for
entrepreneurs because therethere are people that they are
(22:21):
really good at they're the zeroto five person and then it's
like I'm bored or or often whatI see is I don't love this
company anymore like I'm doing Idid I had to do an expense
report last week yeah or I orgot too big to be cool or um and
so like they need to find andand have the I I I don't think
(22:44):
it's humility.
I think it's just theunderstanding themselves the
understanding the freedom to saythis isn't what I want anymore.
So it's here it's in place andthen let's put good leaders that
are the five to 15 or five tofit and then lay them go and let
them flourish and I'm gonna goapply my apply my god god
gifting and unique abilityinnate talents to the next one.
SPEAKER_02 (23:04):
Yeah yeah and or to the next thing yeah the next
right like I look at do it againI don't have the same job now
that I had two years ago and twoyears ago I didn't have the same
job I had two or three yearsbefore that.
Yeah um you have to you have toevolve along with the company a
little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (23:19):
Yeah and that's what growth is yeah that that's so
fun I could talk about this allday title hasn't changed but the
the the the work's evolved andum I mean it was really I I
distinctly remember just in thejourney from Walmart to choosing
to to join James and this teamlike the discipline to make hard
(23:40):
decisions was like a huge partof it.
Like it was obvious to me likeyeah this is small which feels
risky but also we know how tomake the hard calls that are the
right thing for our clients forour partners um for where the
long term vision is going and Ibelieve in it.
So let's get after it.
SPEAKER_00 (24:00):
Yeah yeah that's I mean that's music to my my heart
too just that that's what youmade here because it it just you
can serve you know what we talkI talk about this all the time
you guys know this but we getwhat this Zig Ziggler taught us
this but we get out of life whatwe want if we help enough other
people get what they want rightlike that's that's the abundant
mindset.
(24:20):
And so what I love aboutcompanies like this uh and this
is who I'm supposed to work withlike like you guys but you can
just serve profoundly well andyou can do it quickly.
There's not seven layers of justlike no what's the right thing
for the client that's what we'regonna do.
Yeah and and we believe if wehelp enough clients be wildly
(24:42):
successful we're gonna be finebut but our antenna is up on how
we're gonna help first.
And then it's not a risk.
Right.
And I and I think that'sprobably what some of what I
mean it's different when youcame here but um oftentimes when
you come into an environmentthat's that's healthy like I I
you want to be in the gardenthat you're gonna grow in.
Yeah and I would guess you'remore Charles than you were back
(25:02):
then.
Yeah yeah no it's uh that'sgrowth.
SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
I mean it's definitely more more beard uh
more hair quality about yeah noit's um it's fun I I think I
love your comment on anentrepreneur like this is uh
taking something small havingclarity of vision and then
making it just greater lesser tomore small lesser to to more and
(25:28):
like I distinctly remember beingtold Steve Bratsby's former
chief merchant um awesome and Ijust you know if I've got a
conviction about something I'mI'm a hunt um and we were
selling fish oil and I wanted itto be omega threes because the
promise for the customers inomega threes it's not in the
fish oil the oil is just acarrier for omega three omega
(25:48):
threes but yeah it was commonlycalled that and whatever.
And he just looked at me andhe's like you're a glutton for
punishment aren't you becauselike it's an uphill battle to to
fight for what the customerreally needs that they're not
asking for yet.
Like those that are informedknow exactly what they need.
But there are a lot of customersout there that are just buying
(26:08):
fish oil thinking they'regetting the benefits of omega 3s
when they weren't getting asmuch as I think they thought
they were getting and to yourcredit walk a store today and
find a fish oil that doesn'thave omega three well yeah it's
all over it.
But it was an uphill battle andit was uh and it took a lot of
creativity to go from a thingthat frankly the product was
(26:30):
lesser and now it it is betterand and the reward is there.
Um we were just at Expo West youknow natural product trade show
in California one of the largestyou know it's huge.
I remember walking it as avitamin merchant before we went
through all of this and peopleshunned Walmart.
(26:50):
They were like uh uh you guysdon't know how to do this and I
would have my talk track aboutthe organic groceries we were
selling because Walmart wascrushing already yeah organic
groceries and then I had myother talk track which was like
well you're selling on Amazonhow's your relationship with
that robot you know that and itwas never that was always
benevolent towards uh towardsWalmart because that
(27:12):
relationship wasn't good and Iknew it wasn't uh you know for
them and so they like I'm theactual buyer can we like let's
do something yeah becauseAmerica deserves this and I
would start with why you knowwhy are you in this business?
Oh I want to help people behealthier I'm like oh that's
great 130 million Americansevery week shopping in this
store can can we give themexposure to your brand well I
don't know if we can and nowlike the last year I was there
(27:34):
like for four years later I'mgetting physically assaulted by
people because they understoodit was unlocked a couple brave
souls went first and then it waslike this space and I've watched
Walmart do that in so many spotsand I think every time that's
happened there's an entrepreneurin there I mean Sam Walton
obviously an entrepreneur somany entrepreneurs there's so
(27:55):
much in the the the lifeblood ofof Walmart and Sam's and frankly
a lot of the suppliers that arelike looking at how do I take
this and expand it intosomething bigger and greater.
I'd love to hear your thoughtswhen it comes to hey I'm within
a much larger hard to call thisthing entrepreneurial the
company but I am and I'm hereinside of this large company how
(28:17):
do I get traction how do I youknow borrow yeah I'm I mean
that's a good question.
SPEAKER_00 (28:23):
Yeah it can happen because it's a spirit like James
said at the w when we startedlike the I think that when that
I mean the the word you used orthe the comment was like the why
was big enough the road was notthe hill wasn't too steep.
Right.
And it it was just worth doing.
Yeah so to me I I think thatthere's probably two parts like
(28:45):
to to answer that.
The the first one is like youyou have to have this deep
passion to do the work that thatyou do otherwise the the hill's
not worth it.
SPEAKER_02 (28:56):
It's just too hard.
That's so true because therewill be moments where if you
didn't have to do it youwouldn't you wouldn't yeah take
that to the bank I think I'veseen that across every when they
just there's not enough passionthen like the hills are way
bigger.
SPEAKER_00 (29:10):
Yeah yeah they're not worth climbing no for an
entrepreneur you you do like thehills because it it's a roller
coaster and the the highs arereally high but the lows are
really and if the highs weren'tso high the lows would be worth
it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:24):
Yeah but but you also always have the hope and a
low that you can turn it into ahigh.
SPEAKER_00 (29:29):
Yeah there's there's something in you but it's
control.
But I but I think if if the Y isbig enough the road is possible.
So I think that's the firstpart.
And then uh the second thing andand this is where I try to keep
my antenna up is you we're alsolike you need to be operating
inside of your gifting.
And so it's sort of like you'rewiring when your your heart and
(29:50):
your hand you know here we gowith JBU.
Yeah JBU come on over over butwhen your work and your wiring
intersect that's I think that'sprofound work.
Yeah that's the sweet spot.
Yeah and and so it's it's a lotof self-awareness about what
you're good at and and probablymore self-awareness about what
you're not good at.
Yeah and I I I'll just I'll telleveryone this most things you
(30:11):
are not good at uh you biggerthings yeah but but there is
like very there's a precious fewthings that no one can do but
you it's uncompetent and it'sgood.
And I think the more you canmove your design into you know
your time and your energy intothose things and then let that
(30:31):
layer over top of that big whyyeah that's I think when you get
things done.
And so it's good self-awarenessof what you're good at, what
you're not and then the why isjust big enough and then just
I'd say watch out like go seewhat could happen.
I my experience is most peoplewhen you get comfortable those
things start to dilute and thethe the paycheck is big enough
(30:56):
or my you know and and so youyou just you you go you're not
you you downshift and I'm justkind of running out the clock
here and while I mean maybethat's okay I don't know but
that's just not the life I wantto live.
Yeah I that's why I love beingaround entrepreneurs again
because that's not how theylive.
Yeah they're not downshift.
Otherwise why would you sign upfor this?
(31:16):
Yeah I mean that's what I'veyeah I don't understand.
SPEAKER_02 (31:18):
If you got a downshift you need to be putting
it in park and getting out ofthe car.
SPEAKER_00 (31:23):
I had a Boss in the time that he said you're you're
either green and growing oryou're ripe and rotting.
Yeah.
And so I always want to be greenand growing.
SPEAKER_02 (31:32):
So you you've uh you've kind of taken us through
EOS the principles the you knowleads to human flourishing I'm
sure you've got a hundredexamples now haven't done this
for eight ish years, nine ishyears of companies that have
really broken through the moldright and that's probably where
you get your energy I don't wantto dwell on the ones that didn't
(31:54):
but help us contrast yeah youknow the type of company um you
know that that that really winsand the type that just doesn't
quite get there.
Cause man I'm sure it happens.
SPEAKER_00 (32:05):
Yeah I mean it's the qu the answer is probably not
the type of company yeah andit's more the type of leader
that that means it it doesn'tdoesn't happen or doesn't work
or work as well as it could.
You know, I think if you're ifyou're I mean with EOS is not
complicated but it isexceedingly hard.
And we talk about this idea youknow you know the idea of like
(32:27):
mastering your craft like that'sthat's work that's never done.
You're always doing that.
And I think that you know thepeople that don't get the
long-term return from EOS uh arethe ones that just don't want to
do the work.
You know, because it's not it'snot doing different work.
It's doing your work differentlyand and with a different set of
(32:49):
intents the intention and maybedoing it yeah doing things you
hadn't done before doing thosethings.
SPEAKER_02 (32:55):
Yeah like you have to want to grow those are hard
habits to break if you're notinterested in doing it.
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
So I I love it I love it when um an entrepreneur
or a leadership team walks inwith gray hair and limping and
tired and frustrated I meanthey're suffering like it's just
so hard and and because it'slike I can work with that but
but when someone hasn'tstruggled yet or they just this
(33:22):
is a silver bullet or you knowif I just do this it's gonna
that it's worth 10% to the youknow or another point of of
equity at the transaction tableor whatever that's not who you
know so I I actually don't workwith a lot of those
organizations yeah because theirheart's not in it for
transformation.
But if you're coming and you arewilling to grow you're you want
(33:44):
to get better and and it's notabout you it's about this garden
that your people can grow in uhwhich is that's my current
obsession right now this idea ofentrepreneurs as gardeners uh
but if if that's your if that'syou like let's go yeah I I can
work I we can work with that allday long but it's it's emotional
um it's hard it's sticky a lotof businesses are family
(34:09):
businesses and so people havethe same last name yeah uh I
I've ruined more than oneThanksgiving for people it's it
wasn't me I just I just askquestions that's okay but your
cousin's a problem yeah that'sright or worse your son is and
shouldn't be here and does itfit is not the right person in
the right seat and you got todeal with that uh and that might
(34:31):
be the the founder's vision thatI'm gonna hand this off to yeah
my kid or kids one day so it itis you know often we another
core value we talk about a lotis entering the danger and you
you have to roll your sleeves upand swog through the mess yeah
like with people but but they'realso people and they're worth it
and if we can get to the otherside it unlocks you know their
(34:54):
potential and so I just againyou I don't have to sell you I'm
I'm doing what I'm supposed towell EOS was uh was a a great
fit for my kind of um I don'tknow assumptions about life is
that you're gonna get a lot morefrom people putting their minds
together and being uh what's theword safe be yeah psychological
(35:16):
safety but also like I'm contentand that I have what I need but
I'm driven to like go after thething that can unlock so much
more than you got to hit thisnumber in the next 10 days.
Yeah it's or else yeah thatthat's like what you're speaking
to is the principle of abundanceyeah which is the belief that
there's enough yeah and again ifI help enough other people get
(35:38):
what they want I'm gonna getwhat I want the opposite is
scarcity I've got to preserveI've got to protect pie's not
growing the pie's not growing soif you get something then I
don't have it.
If Charles gets one I don't getthat one or no if Charles gets
one and that's we can be threeor five yeah right and so uh
when you can remove thatinsecurity and just get like
(35:58):
beat it out of your head andjust how do I help as many
people get what and and I thinkthat's like the premise of what
when Gino Wickman he created allof this when he did it that was
the going in principle.
Yeah how do we help people getwhat they want from their
businesses so yeah uh I love it.
I love it and I love what it I'mso glad I I tell people I did
(36:19):
not just to be clear witheverybody I did not do this for
higher this was you guys ohsitting in that room and doing
the work I just made you werethe guy I managed the whiteboard
and asked a couple questions.
Yeah and you guys did all thework and I'll I I'm so proud of
you.
SPEAKER_02 (36:34):
Well until we built the muscle you helped push us to
decision.
SPEAKER_00 (36:38):
That's what coaches do.
SPEAKER_01 (36:39):
Yeah good reps with the right technique but you got
it definitely changed theoutcome.
So grateful for you grateful forthe the way EOS has changed the
trajectory of this business.
SPEAKER_02 (36:51):
Well I feel the same that there's an actual place for
me to be yeah yeah that you'rehere because I'm so grateful um
yeah grateful to be here andwe're doing something special
and I'm excited yeah you knowfor our clients our partners I
get spit excited about next athigh end like what's exciting on
the on the horizon for you knowthe our our our vision is that
(37:11):
we're not the biggest um youknow full service brokerage
service provider consultant butthat to our clients we're the
best and to the people that theyinteract with you know uh
through the work that we do thatthat we're the best that they
could have possibly come to.
Yeah um and to bring not justlike to your point earlier not
(37:31):
10% growth we want to helpinform a transformation yeah in
in our companies because I wedon't have any clients because
we are selective we work withgreat companies we don't have
any company any any clients thatdon't want to see their business
transformed.
Yeah so to get to be a a smallpart of that.
SPEAKER_01 (37:49):
Well and what we found is like there's there's a
lot I mean there's a lot ofsuppliers to Walmart and Samps
like that's our that's ourthat's where we're focused but
and a lot of them are contentyou know trying to be good like
just not being out of stock yeahnot being in trouble yeah um
hopefully keeping my items yeahand I we're not real eat up with
(38:11):
that vision.
Like I I want to take peoplefrom good to great.
Yeah and sometimes what got youto Walmart was a very compelling
item and and you know you solvedthe customer need that needed to
be solved and that's awesome.
And two or three years later ifyou don't understand the
category you don't understandthe customer you don't know if
(38:31):
you're growing the category orfrankly if you know that and
hold it with conviction butcan't articulate it to your
merchant like they have to growthe category then that item
might not need to be there.
It certainly doesn't need moreof its you know counterparts and
if the customer is not wellunderstood you're not gonna be
great.
So really deploying what we'vegot you know here and experts
(38:53):
that have years of experience incategory fact-based selling
really taking data from thiscool thing to it's informing
decisions it changes decisionsit it helps you find an issue
that's gonna be big in fourweeks yeah that isn't big right
now and fixing it um oranticipating it before it
happens and that kind of thingisn't gonna happen on accident
(39:16):
um and um and what we've likethe foundation that was like we
crush when it comes to executionbecause without execution
there's no trust there's nolong-term prospect there might
be an an instant or an initialentry but if your vision is to
be long term and sustainedgrowth the execution is the
(39:36):
green fee I don't care how goodyou are at golf yeah yeah but we
got to be there.
But that's just good.
We want to be great and so it'sbeen really fun to see that come
to life um for our clients andget to see the fruit of no when
you earn trust and you have goodsolutions you get to solve more
problems.
And solving problems on behalfof the customer they reward
because they want their problemssolved and you're okay calling
(39:58):
them problems.
SPEAKER_00 (39:58):
Totally because that's where they are and that's
what you do is solve problems.
SPEAKER_02 (40:02):
Yeah I think to your comment Charles about you know
understanding the category ifyou're going to do year two,
year three, but um I think ofthat every time I see a shark
tank item on the shelf.
Right.
Because that item is there now.
It met some need it got someinvestment it got some attention
people are buying it but in twoor three years some of those
brands you see continue toinnovate and continue to scrub
(40:25):
daddy come on right oh nice welldone right but then you know if
if you don't see it then thatthat that item is gone it's out
of memory.
SPEAKER_00 (40:34):
Yeah I I have a question on this so that I heard
two things I heard we're justtrying to be the best that we
can be.
So like be our best that's ouryou know this passionate
pursuit.
And then we you know it's in thename we're not here for
incremental improvement we'rehere for money that's all right
yeah and and you you spoke tolike we we're solving problems
that are two months down theroad not just you know Monday.
(40:55):
Like we're not you're not justmaking Mondays better.
You're making up order of Mondayyou don't get rid of the moles
by by whack and moling.
SPEAKER_02 (41:01):
So really where we're going is to set our
clients up to have their threeyear vision with their core with
their core customers their jointbusiness planning you know let's
get outside of even quarter andannual let's let's build to the
vision which is we want to havefor each break.
SPEAKER_00 (41:19):
Which is different work than if we're just trying
to get on the mod, right?
Yeah like and I think that'sjust so like that long that long
view like we're we're gonna dothe the infrastructure work
early so that we can do the funstuff but you know and and
that's the work.
Yeah we're we're gonna stackquarters yeah until we get to
our vision and I I think that'sthe power of of the 90 day world
(41:42):
I was gonna so knowing that yougot this is what you're trying
to build it's gonna be profoundhave this high impact I'm I'm
curious and I'm asking thisquestion a lot so I'm really
curious how how does that giveor not give clarity to like hard
decisions we have to hire thisrole do we have the payroll line
is this a client fit or not?
(42:03):
Like how how does that become afilter how does the vision that
you know come down to thosekinds of decisions like does it
take the burden of decisionmaking off quite a bit I think
yeah to tell me I'm well likeyou know Nielsen's a great
partner to us now and thedecision to invest in Nielsen
data is a direct result.
SPEAKER_01 (42:22):
Like you can't be a great partner without
understanding the rest of themarket we're going to be the
best we have to do this.
You have to understand wherethis is going.
Yeah our digital team thatfocuses on e-commerce like do
you need that to stay off thenaughty list?
Probably not do you need it togrow to plant seeds for future
in-store innovation yeah you do.
(42:43):
Do you need category centricstorytelling in ways that
compels a completely differentunderstanding of what drove this
uh category forward or is thishigh growth item you know a
contributor or not uh or what'shappening outside in the blind
spots because you know there'sthere's a lot of innovation that
happens D to C and that startsin some sort of ancillary
(43:07):
channels that are harder to getstrong visibility to starts a
snowball.
And then that but if you're notaware of it by the time it's
significant you're late you'resuper late.
SPEAKER_02 (43:16):
And in terms of running this business it
absolutely informs thosedecisions right like there's
certain clients um let let'sjust stick with categories
there's certain categories thataren't a good fit for us.
Like you can't not that many youcan't be the best at it.
Right.
We could do it and we could getyou to good on a really huge
apparel assortment but we'regonna probably it's not refer
(43:38):
you to somebody that could dothat better.
SPEAKER_00 (43:40):
That's the abundant mindset is if if I can't be the
best for you, I don't want to doit.
Yeah right I know someone thatcan do better.
And and you're not scared thatthat person's gonna get this new
client.
SPEAKER_02 (43:51):
Yeah and it's super critical on hiring right
particularly at the leadershiplevel but really at any level.
So let back to that earliercomment I made where some
Sometimes you you meet a personlike man, you would be a rock
star at this job, but we havethis job, right?
Um, and if being really good atwhat they're good at isn't part
(44:11):
of the vision, then it's an easyno.
SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
And they're not gonna flourish here, right?
Yeah, and again, if we're goodgardeners, we're putting the
seeds in our garden that aregonna flourish.
But if not, there are othergardens.
Yeah, let them go be there.
I love the gardener analogy,though that about yeah, I'm
we're I'm I'm working it.
SPEAKER_01 (44:28):
I'm still I'm still the perfect old Donnie Smith,
you know, peach tree analogy.
He was a good mentor.
Yeah.
Um, but we're we're towards theend.
We'd like to do a lightninground to get some zingers uh out
there.
You know, I like to hear uhabout your your biggest retail.
SPEAKER_02 (44:46):
So um one of the things, you know, what are you
reading?
Also, what are you reading?
What are you listening to?
What podcast, what what are youconsuming right now?
SPEAKER_00 (44:55):
A lot of things.
Uh the this moment, like lastnight, I'm reading, uh, I'm
doing a big talk on you know theconcept of rocks in EOS.
Yeah, yeah.
And so every quarter.
But your quarterly yeah, everyquarter we get to yeah, rocks
are most important outcomes ourorganization must achieve in the
next 90 days.
Uh, we all as EOS implementersget together every 90 days
(45:18):
ourselves and eat our own dogfood and good dive into deep
dive into you know one of thetools that we teach our clients.
And so it's rocks this quarter.
And so I'm leading our EOSimplementer community through
this.
And so I'm learning a lot aboutrocks.
Uh, I just finished the I mean,I do I'm about I'm about ancient
literary, like I like the oldstuff.
So Peter Drucker has thisincredible book called The Uh
(45:42):
Effective Executive, and justthe snippet of it that's so good
is uh he he said, and thisspeaks specifically to rocks,
but he says effective executivesare profoundly great at putting
first things first and doingsecond things, not at all.
Yeah, and so it's just this thisruthless elimination of anything
(46:03):
that's not most important.
SPEAKER_01 (46:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (46:05):
So I just finished that last night, and then I'm I
I'm always working throughsomething from Stephen Covey,
Jim Collins.
I'm a big Patrick Lynchy on it.
The classics.
Yeah, I mean that if it's not 25years old, I I'm not sure it's
for me.
You don't trust it.
Yeah.
Um, podcast-wise, uh I there's alot of podcasts.
We have a lot of EOS people inour community that do podcasts,
(46:27):
and uh what one of them, theretail journey.
I listened to that.
Let's go.
Nice.
SPEAKER_01 (46:32):
All right, I'm gonna reward you with that.
With uh what was your greatestuh retail blunder in your life
journey?
As a consumer or as a as a uhyou were the CPG world, so I'm
sure there was some fun, like,oh whoops, learn from that.
SPEAKER_00 (46:46):
Man, um we had, I mean, like one thing I'm
thinking of right now, uh, thiswas in the dog food category,
and we had a kind of a cerealbox of dog food, and we had a in
I don't know if they're stillcalled in caps.
We've been out of it so long,but they're still called in
caps, you know.
And we had an opportunity to gothrough there and a buyer that
was interested in it.
(47:07):
And so we did this whole thing,and I don't I think it was all
the stores of but it but we werewe sold them for a dollar, and
so it while it was like acompelling thing to pick off the
shelf, we the margin was therefor us, it just wasn't a great
use of space.
And I got called into theprincipal's office an hour.
What did you do?
There were a lot of principal'soffices.
(47:29):
Yeah, uh, but you know what?
You it was a great learning, andwe learned forward from that.
Uh and but it was I would saythat was uh yeah, a little box
of box of dog food cereal.
Yeah, I missed the fairway onthat one.
SPEAKER_02 (47:40):
Not not so much, and this uh using EOS terms, this is
the visionary in me.
But what are you looking forwardto over the next year, next 12
months?
In my life or my work, in yourwork, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:50):
Yeah, I mean I mean, I am in the process of a book uh
that I am uh get getting readyto I'm we're I'm in the
manuscript right now.
Let's go.
Uh I'm looking forward, I thinkso.
What I'm looking forward to isit being over.
Yeah, I'm not looking forward toit.
Like complete.
Yeah, it's being completebecause uh it is hard to sit
(48:10):
there and write.
SPEAKER_02 (48:11):
What's the topic?
What's the book about?
SPEAKER_00 (48:13):
Uh entrepreneurs that are gardeners.
All right.
Let's go, baby.
Uh more to come.
Let's cultivate.
Yeah, let's cultivate.
Ooh, that's good.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let's cultivate TM.
Guys, this was awesome.
Yeah, thank you so much forjoining us.
So thanks for letting me comehere.
SPEAKER_02 (48:29):
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (48:30):
Where can the uh where can the people find you?
Yes, yes, yes.
Oh man.
Um EOSworldwide.com.
You can search my name under EOSimplementers.
And I would love to if you're anentrepreneur and you're looking
for traction in your business, Iwould love to have a
conversation with you.
I have a little office down inFayetteville or a Zoom meeting,
but um Yeah, email address.
(48:52):
Yeah, Dustin.pruitt atEosworldwide.com.
Awesome.
And Cassandra will get theshe'll answer it and we'll get
it set up.
And I don't I don't, I'm notgood at email, so she'll take it
and get us get us set up.
But I appreciate you guys.
I'm grateful.
Yeah, appreciate you.
Good work.
I'm proud of you too.
SPEAKER_02 (49:07):
Thank you all for listening.
Uh, as always, you can find allof our episodes on our website
at high impactanalytics.com orwherever you get your podcast.
Thank you.
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