July 8, 2026 • 31 mins
A solution without a defined problem is a guaranteed way to lose a retail partnership. With consumer expectations shifting rapidly and omni-channel delivery setting new standards, understanding the actual needs of both the retailer and the end user is mandatory for survival. In this special Vintage Insights re-release, Ashley Caldwell, a 20-year retail veteran working in the diabetes space at Embecta, breaks down how she bridges the gap between massive retail pharmacies and critical patient care.
We sit down to explore the mechanics of building strategic alliances that go beyond transactional sales. The conversation covers the necessity of cross-functional alignment in Joint Business Planning, the evolution of retail health clinics in medically underserved communities, and why relying solely on modular data can mislead your entire strategy. Ashley explains her philosophy on why deep discovery must always precede the pitch, reinforcing that the best ideas are found on the store floor rather than behind a computer screen.
Building a successful program often involves intense internal friction and the difficult task of challenging the established norms within your own organization. You will learn how to build a concrete financial business case, constructively challenge business partners using store-level reality, and navigate the complex logistics of operationalizing a new retail concept from the ground up.
If you care about strategic retail partnerships, data-driven merchandising, and the future of healthcare access, you’ll get a lot from this. Please subscribe to the channel and share this episode with your network. What is the most difficult internal pushback you have had to overcome to launch a successful initiative?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:11):
Hello and welcome back to the Retail Journey
Podcast.
SPEAKER_03 (00:16):
I'm Charles Greathouse and I'm James Harris.
Today we have a very specialguest with us, Ashley Caldwell.
SPEAKER_00 (00:22):
Hi, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_03 (00:23):
Yes.
Welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (00:24):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (00:25):
So, Ashley, you and I go back 10 years.
SPEAKER_00 (00:28):
Ten years.
SPEAKER_03 (00:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (00:29):
Can't believe it.
SPEAKER_03 (00:30):
Ten wonderful years.
SPEAKER_00 (00:31):
We look great.
We look great.
SPEAKER_03 (00:34):
Indeed.
So tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
SPEAKER_00 (00:38):
Yeah, yeah.
So again, thanks for having me.
And obviously, you know, I thinkthe world of you and now of
Charles as well, of course.
SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
Thank you.
Um, that's right.
SPEAKER_00 (00:47):
That's right.
Um, yes, so I um let's see.
So I have sort of had, let'scall it a 20-year retail career.
Um, I worked for probably thefirst half of it in consumer
package goods, um, and thenmoved into sort of the pharma
med device world 10 years ago.
So today I work for a large pureplay diabetes company called
(01:10):
Inbecta.
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:11):
Yeah.
And we work with retailpharmacies across the country
um, helping them do what they doevery day, which is serve, you
know, the US patient population,particularly those with
diabetes.
So I love it.
It's very rewarding um work.
SPEAKER_03 (01:27):
And um I have a lot of firsthand experience with
Invecta as a type one diabetic.
So your sales materials and andeverything have have were really
critical when I first wasdiagnosed.
Like I just needed to researchand learn how to manage this new
exciting adventure.
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
That's right.
That's right, that's right.
Yeah, it's definitely um, it'sdefinitely very, very important
work that, you know, whetheryou're in med device, you're in
pharma, you're in the OTC side,um, you know, US healthcare has
never been, you know, morecritical to our patient
population.
And so it's a really it's a veryrewarding industry um to be a
(02:09):
part of.
And it's constantly changing andconstantly evolving.
SPEAKER_01 (02:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
And I think for the better.
Right.
So yeah, it's it's fun to bepart of.
SPEAKER_03 (02:16):
Yeah.
We'll be we'll get to be a partof the Kiss a Pig Gala tomorrow,
raising more money for diabetesresearch.
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
That's right.
SPEAKER_03 (02:23):
So uh bring us in kind of how did you get into
sales?
What did you start in analytics?
SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (02:29):
What's that story?
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
Yeah.
So so when I graduated fromcollege, University of Arkansas,
Wu Pig Wu Pig.
Um, we I moved actually toSouthern California, and I was a
field rep for Newell Rubbermadeat the time.
And I had a 10-store Walmartterritory that I called on and
sort of like schleppedRubberMade containers, and we
(02:50):
had tools and we had foodstorage, we had all these
things.
Let's go.
SPEAKER_03 (02:53):
You must have been on the back, like the very back
end of in-store reps working forCPGs.
SPEAKER_00 (02:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
The program only lasted about ayear and a half, honestly.
So it was it was great sort oftraining that I think even to
this day still impacts me aboutlike at the end of the day, like
whatever decisions you make as asupplier, as a retailer,
somebody in a store somewhere inthe country has got to like pull
that through.
And you've really got to, youknow, the term eat what you cook
(03:19):
and get out there and like seefirsthand what's happening.
And it also really impressedupon me that the best ideas
don't come from sitting behind acomputer.
They often come from being inthe stores, hearing what people
have to say, and then gettingback behind that computer,
looking at the data, looking atthe research, and figuring out,
okay, what could the solutionpossibly be?
(03:41):
So when that program ended, youknow, a year and a half in,
because to your point, it waskind of at the tail end of that.
I moved to Bentonville andworked in our Newell Walmart
home office.
Um, and I worked as an analyst.
And so it was a fun time, youknow, there were a lot of
analysts in the office.
I got to learn very quickly frompeople that had been doing the
(04:02):
role for years and years andyears.
And they kind of moved me aroundover about a year and a half.
And I ended up landing on thewriting instrument desk.
And um, that was one of ourlargest, most profitable
businesses, very SKU-intensive,brands like Sharpie, brands like
Expo, Papermate, Unibol.
Um, and being the school supplynerd that I still am to this
(04:26):
day, who does not like to goback to school shopping, um, I,
you know, was advising our teamjust on a modular that was
coming up.
And we were standing at the modand and I just was saying how,
you know, the mod and the datadidn't look the same.
The mod was one way, the dataset another, in terms of what
(04:47):
people were buying, what wasgrowing, space to sales was off.
It just it just didn't make anysense.
And so um the buyer at the timelooked at me and said, Well,
then just do do what you think,and I want to see it.
And I'm gonna come backtomorrow.
And so I just spent hours justrearranging the whole thing.
Came back, he loved it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:06):
Sounds right from a timeline.
Yeah.
I'm gonna come back.
SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
I'm gonna come back tomorrow and I'm gonna get like
I'm gonna bring like my bag ofpopcorn from layout center.
Let's just do the whole thing.
And I'm gonna like you're gonnasmell like it all day.
Right, and you're gonna smelllike the burned popcorn all day.
And um, and so they theylaunched it and it and it
worked.
And so I he just looked at meand he was like, This is who I
want as my salesperson.
(05:30):
And so I was never reallysomebody that was very quote
sales-y, you know, I just didn'thave that way about me, but I
was very passionate about thedata and digging into the data
to see, you know, you havehypotheses, go, you know, go
check it out.
Okay, anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (05:47):
So as a merchant, that's my favorite kind of
salesperson.
SPEAKER_00 (05:51):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (05:51):
Because if it's the data, then you're just trying to
bring the customer's voice tolife.
And we should we're working onthe same problem together,
trying to figure out how to makewhat the customer wants come to
life on that shelf.
SPEAKER_00 (06:02):
Yeah, and you're going back and forth.
Store data, store data.
And you're trying to kind ofsee, okay, what really what
really is the customer tellingus, right?
SPEAKER_02 (06:11):
Yeah.
What era of you know the writingteam?
Is this Ed as the DMM back thenor Eddie Tet.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
Eddie Tet.
A legend.
SPEAKER_02 (06:22):
That guy.
SPEAKER_00 (06:23):
A legend.
SPEAKER_02 (06:23):
Eddie Tut, uh, retail journey coming to you
soon.
He's got that'd be a good one.
Come on, Ed.
SPEAKER_00 (06:29):
Let's yeah, he'll tell he'll tell you what's what.
SPEAKER_02 (06:31):
Yeah, no doubt.
SPEAKER_00 (06:32):
But you learn from people like that.
I remember him telling me onetime, don't stop pushing us.
Because there was something wewere trying to do for years and
years, and we just kept gettingtold no, and we kept getting
told no.
And he could tell that I wasgetting defeated and frustrated
about it.
But he just said, don't justdon't stop telling us what we
need to do.
Don't stop telling us the truth.
And I do not to like take a hardpivot, but I do think as, and
(06:56):
I'll say a supplier communityvery broadly, but you know, I do
think that we live in a timeright now where that can be
difficult.
But I think that those peoplewho do the hard work on the
front end, dig into theinformation, get out into the
stores, talk to consumers,figure out what really is needed
(07:17):
and where the gaps are, and arewilling to constructively
challenge their businesspartners, are going to be the
most successful.
And I think that I was veryfortunate early in my career to
work with people that did thatreally effectively in a way that
didn't come acrossdisrespectful, but came across
(07:38):
as like we are all on both sidesof the table, part of one team.
SPEAKER_01 (07:43):
Totally.
SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
And we have a collective responsibility to
bring the consumer and now thepatient, as we say in pharmacy,
the solutions that they areseeking to make their lives
better at the prices that theycan afford to pay.
And so I I put Eddie Tut in thatcategory of people that were
(08:06):
willing to sit at the table andcollaborate, truly collaborate
and like get into it.
Um so anyway, you're fortunatewhen you can find people like
that to work with.
SPEAKER_02 (08:15):
And that foundation is just irreplaceable for me.
You know, I think Eddie was thatuh for me.
He was a mentor while I wasthere.
Jody Pinson, um, Scott Huff,certainly.
Um, did you work with SethCordry?
SPEAKER_00 (08:30):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (08:30):
Back when he was there?
So he helped me get into thebuying program in general and
was over there.
But yeah, I I think it's thecourage of conviction and the uh
that's right, having the courageto be curious as you look at a
data set as opposed to like justfinding the least amount of
evidence necessary to support anassumption.
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
Yep.
Yeah, and I hope that as likesort of the next generation
comes up through um, you know,into the workforce that they too
will not be afraid toconstructively challenge sort of
what they're seeing and and howwe're how we're serving our
customers every day.
SPEAKER_02 (09:09):
Well, we're recording this, you know, days
after DSS is being announced asgoing away.
Walmart Illuminate will be thefoundation that new merchants
start with.
SPEAKER_00 (09:20):
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (09:20):
I'm so excited for a merchant to start with data that
actually ties together customerjourneys.
Whereas in DSS, you were usingan analogy to try to figure out
how units uh store per week.
You know, what which metrics andwhich stores, how do they
potentially tell acustomer-centric story?
And at the end of the day, Istill think there's nothing
(09:42):
better than go talk tocustomers.
SPEAKER_00 (09:45):
Because they'll tell you.
SPEAKER_02 (09:46):
They will tell you.
Uh store associates areincredible at store associates.
It is that unvarnished truth youget day in, day out.
They have to live with it.
I love that so much.
SPEAKER_00 (09:57):
You better, you better get ready and just grab a
seat.
SPEAKER_02 (09:59):
And the diabetic category is something crazy
important.
So I got to buy the diabetescategory.
That's right.
Um, very meaningful for me.
And I spend some time in thestore trying to learn from you
know what customers are lookingfor.
And I saw a uh lady in the theaisle sort of looking at these,
you know, two different glucosetablets, which are basically
(10:23):
quick introduction of sugarquickly absorbed, so to get you
higher when you're low.
Um, I was like, oh, cool.
That's uh, you know, what's uhlike do you mind telling me a
little bit about oh yeah, youknow, uh my uh my son passed out
again on the shop floor andwanted to uh what were his
(10:43):
numbers?
Like, oh I don't have a meter,we just borrow our you know
neighbor's meter every once in awhile, and I'm just like, oh my
goodness, this is your life.
And you're rolling the diceusing someone else's you know
meter and test trips at thetime.
I was trying to figure out howto get rely on meters from$18 to
$9.
I think they're still ninebucks.
(11:05):
Um there's a massive uh anymerchants out there, how about
50% off uh uh an$18 item withoutany history?
Uh, you know, no one had donethat before, so I had to fight a
lot for that.
But it's like you can't, wecan't not have meters in
customers' hands.
Like they have to be able toknow what's actually going on
(11:25):
because you're just treatingyou're just treating with
glucose tabs as opposed tounderstanding well, what is
actually going on.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
Well, and I think I think also in addition to just
gaps in you know affordabilityof of drug therapy and all
accompanying supplies is justsimply access to care in the
first place.
Oh, yeah.
Right.
I mean, we still have a largelyundiagnosed diabetes population.
We have um a big percentage ofthe population obviously lives
(11:55):
in you know medicallyunderserved communities that
don't have access to care.
And I think that what when Icame into this industry, I came
into this industry feeling verydrawn to it, but not really
fully understanding why.
And as a few years passed, Ibegan to realize that that this
retail access to health care wasthe thing that I was gonna get
(12:20):
really excited about.
Because, you know, whether youare, you know, someone who lives
in a medically underservedcommunity or you're a parent of
a child who's sick late atnight, or just the reality is
that care is not alwaysconvenient or accessible or
affordable.
But retail pharmacy and retailin general is beginning to fill
(12:42):
that gap in really excitingways, whether that is sort of
the continued growth andemergence of retail clinics,
whether that be the Walmarthealth centers, whether that's
you know, little clinics orminute clinics or you know, a
lot of these clinics that aredriven by the retailers.
I mean, most people now getimmunized at their retailers.
(13:03):
Now you're seeing the emergenceof COVID and flu and strep
testing at retailers with youknow prescribing on the spot.
And so I think that that goesback to an area where patients
want it.
We as a healthcare team, all ofus together, have to figure out
(13:25):
how to continue to deliver thatto people, not only because it's
what they want, but to yourearlier point, it's what's
needed in order to help people,you know, live their lives to
the fullest.
Um and so that can happen, youknow, and obviously you did that
on the OTC side of the business.
SPEAKER_03 (13:45):
Yeah, I get so jazzed about that.
Yeah.
And like Walmart with 4,700stores.
Yeah.
It could be 4,700 stores.
SPEAKER_00 (13:50):
Largely located in in medically underserved areas
of the country too.
So you almost feel this sense ofresponsibility to help, as you
talked about earlier, right?
Helping our partners to educate,helping to just to educate our
pharmacy partners so they inturn can deliver care.
SPEAKER_03 (14:10):
And yeah, so so sticking with diet diabetes, you
know, typically adult onsetdiabetes is something that's
maybe it's not sudden in itsdevelopment, but it's sudden in
its realization, right?
And and it's it's prettydaunting to get an endocrinology
appointment unless you've got areferral, which means you have
to have a doctor to to beginwith, and many don't.
(14:32):
Uh, and that's one of the that'sone of the things in the clinics
is an A1C check.
Uh so you could for you knowwhatever, 45 or 60 dollars have
a have appointment.
Um, you know, that personbecomes your primary, you get
your diagnosis, and you walk outof the store with the things you
need to treat that disease.
SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
It's that's right.
And everybody's looking forhelp.
So that's what we try to do.
That's and I think that's whatwe'll all continue to try to
partner up and do in all theways that you know, each each
particular retail pharmacypartner is different in terms of
how they do that.
So I think it's just it's uhit's important upon all of us to
be willing to be flexible assupplier partners to help our
(15:14):
partners serve their patientshow they how they do it.
SPEAKER_03 (15:18):
Well, let's uh let's pivot back to uh to uh strategic
partnerships, buildingrelationships with with
retailers.
That the two things that I thinkhave stood out to me over the
last 10 years of workingalongside you is one, your your
willingness and ability toreally get into data.
And in in most cases, it'sasking for the data that you
(15:38):
need, the way you need to seeit, um, getting that
understanding.
But then aside from that, it'sthe relationships that you build
with merchants, with uh thebroader cross-functional team.
Talk to us a little bit aboutyour process uh when you've you
know you've been in a fewdifferent categories, how you
approach a category and andwhere those kind of where those
connection points are inbuilding those relationships.
SPEAKER_00 (16:01):
Yeah, I'll start I'll start with what I think is
the worst thing you can do,which is like what I think I
would see people do.
And I think it's the naturaldefault, which is like to lead
with a solution, lead with aproduct, lead with, you know,
I'm here to tell you what Ihave, right?
And I make it about me and Imake it about my company.
I think the number one thingthat you have to do is spend a
(16:24):
lot of time in what I calldiscovery.
Right.
You, you by the time you sitdown to start trying to build
that partnership, you have toknow as much as you can possibly
know before you ever walk in thedoor, right?
What are they about?
What are their goals?
Who are the key players?
How do things work?
(16:45):
Like really get to know thatpartner.
And and then I think the firstconversations are always about
what is important to you all,what are you trying to
accomplish, right?
I think at the end of the day,everyone gets cascaded a list of
goals and priorities for thisyear, next year, et cetera.
And you've got your marchingorders.
(17:05):
And so the people that can cometo the table and help you
accomplish your goals with whatthey have to offer, yeah, those
are the people that are going tobe successful.
I think that that's number one.
I think number two, you have tothen, as you know, someone in my
seat, be willing to go fight onbehalf of your partner for what
(17:28):
you mutually believe is theright thing to do.
SPEAKER_03 (17:32):
So internally.
SPEAKER_00 (17:33):
Internally, I always joke, like, and I think any
supplier that listens to thiswill just nod their head.
Like dealing with your owncompany can typically be so much
harder than dealing with, youknow, usually spend more time.
And that goes for, I mean, youknow, anywhere.
And it's not that everyone isn'tum isn't trying to come from a
good place, but you know,everyone understands their own
(17:55):
limitations, right?
So it's about how do you build abigger vision for what you're
trying to accomplish togetherand like what's in it for all
parties involved.
SPEAKER_03 (18:05):
Um, because you're kind of a dual advocate as a
salesperson.
You're advocating for your brandand you're advocating for your
customer.
You absolutely are.
Making those two work together,yep.
Might take a few concessions orcompromises.
SPEAKER_00 (18:17):
Yeah.
And and and being willing tochallenge the status quo, be
willing to challenge the waythat things have always been
done.
Um, but also within that, youhave to have a very strong
financial business case, right?
For both sides.
So, how do you figure out how tomake that happen?
And then even interestingly,within retail pharmacy, I was
just having this conversationearlier with a partner.
(18:39):
Like, then you have to figureout how to get it done.
How are you gonna actuallyoperationalize that together?
Which again goes back to Wow, asalesperson is asking that
question.
unknown (18:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:51):
So then you got to get in the stores.
How are we gonna how are wegonna eat what we cook?
Yeah, right.
How are we gonna actually dothat?
Um, but I think so often it'svery easy to skip over the
discovery part and just jump tothe solution because you in your
mind you have a thing that youneed to move forward.
But you know, a pro a solutionwithout a problem is no solution
(19:15):
at all.
Right.
So what is the problem that'strying to be solved and then how
do you work together?
SPEAKER_02 (19:19):
Yeah, you know, to do that.
I think it takes courage to havethe conversation on the front
end.
It does.
I think it goes back to thelayout center, you know, room,
looking at the data, looking atthe model, like this doesn't add
up.
Yeah.
Um, the courage to say, like,this doesn't add up.
Uh we need to we need to dosomething that actually solves
the problem that we're bothaligned on.
(19:40):
And I think the the courage tostep into that conversation is
the is so critical.
SPEAKER_00 (19:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I also think that you haveto establish like where
everybody's coming from.
Right.
Again, it just goes back tolike, what are you trying to
accomplish?
What's important to you?
Um okay, right now I don't havethe answer.
I'm actually gonna take whatI've learned here and I'm gonna
go back.
I feel like I'm giving away allmy secrets.
SPEAKER_01 (20:06):
Fantastic.
SPEAKER_00 (20:08):
But honestly, like if you sit in there and you say
I've got the answer right righthere, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (20:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:14):
That's pretty rare.
SPEAKER_02 (20:15):
Yeah, yeah.
How do you know that you havethe answer?
You haven't heard the question.
SPEAKER_00 (20:19):
That's exactly right.
Right.
That's exactly right.
SPEAKER_02 (20:20):
You don't know the problem auto.
I know this is the solution.
Yeah.
Seeing it a lot.
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (20:25):
But it makes it more fun, and then everybody has skin
in the game.
And I think what what comes outis like so much better in the
process.
SPEAKER_03 (20:34):
So let's talk a little bit about uh joint
business planning.
Because that's kind of you know,you're you come in, discovery,
find the need, financially tieboth sides to to this solution.
And then there's year two, andthen there's year three.
SPEAKER_00 (20:47):
That's right.
SPEAKER_03 (20:48):
And that's kind of where joint business planning
can come in.
SPEAKER_00 (20:51):
Yeah, I mean, I think that you know, with your
with your best joint businessplanning partners, you're you're
always talking a couple of yearsdown the road, right?
It gets back to like the visioncasting, it's but gets back to,
you know, taking some time tojust kind of dream together and
say, what do we really think ispossible if we could, you know,
have all the stars aligned.
(21:12):
Um, I think one of the most thetimes where joint business
planning has also been the mosteffective is when everyone is
unafraid to bring other peopleinto the room.
SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:25):
I think that sometimes we all get a little
bit protective of our territoryand we say, well, I mean, I
could say, like, well, I'm theI'm the salesperson and this is
the buyer.
And, you know, it if it's justthe two of you all the time,
you're you're only getting twoperspectives.
Right.
But if you bring, you know, anoperator and a marketer and you
know, someone from digital, andI bring a marketer and I bring
(21:46):
somebody from product, and thenwe all pull together, right?
We dream, we cast a big visiontogether, then we've got a
couple of years worth of stuffto be working on, right?
And some things are going to beshorter term.
Some things are going to belonger term.
But I think that when you havemore people bought in and you
have more skin in the game, Iwas talking to somebody about
(22:09):
this earlier.
You know, that makes a bigdifference in terms of cascading
things up to leadership.
SPEAKER_01 (22:15):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:15):
It's one thing for one person to go for leadership.
Yeah.
And say, like, we need to dothis thing, versus if six people
get together and they go toleadership and they say, we need
to do this thing.
Right.
Um, and so, but I do think partof the joint business planning
process after you get throughthat discovery and once you sort
of create those goals, is youyou do have to get out there and
(22:36):
you got to sell to a lot ofother stakeholders, right?
And you have to do thattogether.
Um, I remember one of theprograms that we did a couple of
years ago, and we had to take itall the way up to the VP of
pharmacy operations and get hisbuy-in.
So we had to get the VP ofmerchant merchandising to
approve it first and then shit.
So you're like really having toget a lot of major stakeholders
(22:59):
involved.
And it was a huge success andeveryone was really happy.
But it was, it wasn't easygetting there.
It took a lot of courage.
Yep.
It took a very strong businesscase, it took a very tight
operational plan.
SPEAKER_03 (23:11):
Um but if your starting point is a shared goal,
that's in the end.
SPEAKER_00 (23:15):
We were all fired up and we were we all really
believed in what we were tryingto do.
And and that that will buy yousome trust, I think.
Because I do think leaderstoday, um, you know, executive
level leaders are they'relooking for new ideas.
They're looking for fresh ideas.
And um and I I think one of themy favorite things about the
(23:39):
work that I've done over theyears is that it's been so
collaborative.
SPEAKER_01 (23:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:43):
And so it's never one person.
And I think joint businessplanning kind of forces you to
pull a lot of stakeholders inand it makes it better and more
successful.
SPEAKER_03 (23:53):
I like your point on leaders looking for for new
ideas.
I mean, that's probably alwaysbeen somewhat true, but
post-COVID, I feel like it'seven more of a thing.
We went, I mean, we basicallyhad two and a half shared years
of trauma and recovery comingout.
And now uh one of the, if youwant to call it benefits, uh,
and certainly COVID wasn't abenefit, but one of the the
(24:15):
things that have come about fromthat is there's a little bit
bigger box, you know, when youtalk about b being outside of
the box, the the idea that,well, we kind of have to do it
this way because we've done itthis way.
We've now done so many thingsdifferently that we never did
before, whether it's you know,speeding up Omni or online
grocery pickup, uh delivery ofgroceries now, delivery of just
(24:36):
about anything, um, that there'sthere is more of an appetite and
a willingness to okay, let'sswing for the fence on this one.
SPEAKER_00 (24:42):
Well, and consumer expectations have changed.
Like we're we're used to beingable to pick up our phones,
press a button, and havesomething arrive in two hours or
less.
unknown (24:52):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
Yeah.
That's the new standard.
Right.
Like you if I get online and youtell me it's gonna be a week,
I'm like, I'm going somewhereelse.
SPEAKER_02 (24:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:59):
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (25:00):
If I mean rewind 10 years ago and their current
reality is insane.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:05):
Yeah.
And so I think you've just gotto keep up with no matter what
category you're in.
Um the the consumer standard, Ithink, has never been higher.
And I think their expectationsof value have never been higher
because now they have access toso much more.
I mean, it goes back tohealthcare, right?
Like I now, depending upon myhealthcare provider, can
(25:27):
literally just pick up my phoneand talk to a doctor.
SPEAKER_03 (25:30):
Right.
Right.
And that's a COVID innovation.
SPEAKER_00 (25:32):
That's a COVID innovation.
It's certainly something thatCOVID dramatically accelerated.
So you're seeing retailers getinto telehealth in a way that
they never had before, insurancecompanies with telehealth.
So yeah, we're we're veryparticular now, consumers.
We're very we're very highmaintenance.
SPEAKER_03 (25:50):
Yeah, it's more information.
All right.
Well, let's uh let's move to ourlightning round here.
Okay.
Um, what in your business areyou most looking forward to in
2024?
SPEAKER_00 (26:02):
Well, some things I can't really share.
Okay.
That you can kid it.
Um I think that so part of myjob is I I lead a team of people
that work with differentretailers.
And I think that one of the mostrewarding things to me is to
conceive is to see how thoseteam members grow and develop
(26:24):
and the way that their skillsets are expanding and the way
that they're learning to thinkdifferently.
And I think that that that is sorewarding.
And as like we as a team talkabout the things that we've all
talked about, it's like thingsstart to click for people.
And they and they realize thatlike what we do at the end of
the day, it's not hard.
(26:45):
It just requires a willingnessto dig in and be part of a team
and do the work.
SPEAKER_01 (26:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:52):
But you don't have to be some like savvy, you know,
right, savvy slick salespersonor whatever.
SPEAKER_03 (27:01):
The things that go on the resume are the
achievements.
But the thing, at least in myexperience, the things you enjoy
the most are the people you workwith, especially as a leader, to
see them develop and reach theirpotential.
Like that's the part that ismotivating.
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (27:14):
That's right.
It's very rewarding.
And then I think also just, youknow, our industry in particular
is just ripe with some excitinginnovation.
Yeah.
And so I think that I'm I'mreally optimistic about the
things that, you know, we'rework working on as a company.
I'm very excited about thethings that other companies and
our space are working on.
Um, I think if you are a parentof a small child that was
(27:37):
diagnosed with type one in thelast decade and you had access
to CGM, you it was a gamechanger relative to friends of
mine that had type one childrenbefore CGM.
SPEAKER_01 (27:47):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (27:48):
Right.
And so I think that that I'mjust pretty fired up about some
of the things that are on theirway for our industry to help
people um, you know, stayhealthy.
SPEAKER_03 (27:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's great.
Uh, what's on your reading list?
SPEAKER_00 (28:01):
Okay, I'm actually reading the Elon Musk biography
by Walter Isaacson right now.
It is a beast.
It's a beast.
And I don't know that Elon'smanagement tactics are
necessarily my managementtactics, but you have to
obviously have to give him animmense amount of credit for,
like we talked about, beinginnovative, pushing the status
(28:23):
quo, not being afraid to, youknow, rock the boat.
SPEAKER_01 (28:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:28):
Um, but boats are rocked.
He rocks the boat.
Um, love him or hate him, but itis a beast of a read.
I'm gonna have to like audiobook it at some point so I can
get through it.
SPEAKER_02 (28:39):
Yeah.
Biggest win in retail.
unknown (28:42):
Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_00 (28:44):
You know what I was so proud of is in my writing
instrument days, this is anexample.
Um, the buyer at the time wanteda Sharpie Black Friday item, but
he wanted it to look like apizza box.
And he wanted all the Sharpiesto sort of fan around.
And you talk about the thingwhere you just literally had to
(29:04):
fight I had to fight tooth andnail for that thing.
Like I never fought for anythingin my career.
I mean, it was completedeparture from brand
architecture.
I mean, you name it and it was alimit.
And we got it done and we soldthrough 80% of them in by noon.
SPEAKER_01 (29:24):
Oh, awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (29:26):
And I just felt so because I thought, if this
doesn't sell, yeah, praise God,I'm gonna have to like shop my
resume out there.
SPEAKER_00 (29:34):
And um, and it did, but it and every year they still
they do it every year, and everyyear I just beam with pride.
SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (29:41):
And when I see the latest iteration, oh yeah, it's
like they're still doing it andit does so well and it makes a
lot of people happy.
And I was, I I mean, there's alot of things I was really I'm
really proud of, but that one inparticular just pops into mind.
SPEAKER_03 (29:55):
That's a really cool story.
And what do you do to de-stressto relax?
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
Well, I do love to read.
Um, so that is definitely ade-stressor when I can.
Um, I love to cook when I can.
Um, but you know, mostly I'm ina season of life right now.
I have a 10-year-old son, I havean eight-year-old daughter.
Not a lot of relaxes.
No, there's not a lot ofrelaxes.
SPEAKER_01 (30:17):
Let's go.
SPEAKER_00 (30:18):
I spend a lot of time at the cheer gym and the
football field.
Um, but I think that um, youknow, I wouldn't say that that's
necessary, necessarily relaxing,but it's very rewarding.
SPEAKER_01 (30:33):
Rewarding, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:34):
And, you know, I mean, you all have children, you
know, this season of life isshort.
And so I'm I'm actually verythankful that I can do work that
I love, but also be the kind ofparent that I want to be.
And I'm I'm very thankful to bein a line of work that lets me,
I think, do both to the way thatI want to.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (30:53):
Yeah.
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us.
Thanks for having me.
It's been fun.
You came all the way from LittleRock.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (30:59):
Well, anytime I'm I'm just honored to be here and
love you guys are doing this.
SPEAKER_03 (31:04):
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you.
And as always, thank you all forjoining us here on the retail
journey.
You can find all of our episodeson highimpactanalytics.com or
wherever you download yourpodcast.
Thanks a lot.
Hello and welcome back to the Retail Journey
Podcast.
SPEAKER_03 (00:16):
I'm Charles Greathouse and I'm James Harris.
Today we have a very specialguest with us, Ashley Caldwell.
SPEAKER_00 (00:22):
Hi, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_03 (00:23):
Yes.
Welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (00:24):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (00:25):
So, Ashley, you and I go back 10 years.
SPEAKER_00 (00:28):
Ten years.
SPEAKER_03 (00:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (00:29):
Can't believe it.
SPEAKER_03 (00:30):
Ten wonderful years.
SPEAKER_00 (00:31):
We look great.
We look great.
SPEAKER_03 (00:34):
Indeed.
So tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
SPEAKER_00 (00:38):
Yeah, yeah.
So again, thanks for having me.
And obviously, you know, I thinkthe world of you and now of
Charles as well, of course.
SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
Thank you.
Um, that's right.
SPEAKER_00 (00:47):
That's right.
Um, yes, so I um let's see.
So I have sort of had, let'scall it a 20-year retail career.
Um, I worked for probably thefirst half of it in consumer
package goods, um, and thenmoved into sort of the pharma
med device world 10 years ago.
So today I work for a large pureplay diabetes company called
(01:10):
Inbecta.
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:11):
Yeah.
And we work with retailpharmacies across the country
um, helping them do what they doevery day, which is serve, you
know, the US patient population,particularly those with
diabetes.
So I love it.
It's very rewarding um work.
SPEAKER_03 (01:27):
And um I have a lot of firsthand experience with
Invecta as a type one diabetic.
So your sales materials and andeverything have have were really
critical when I first wasdiagnosed.
Like I just needed to researchand learn how to manage this new
exciting adventure.
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
That's right.
That's right, that's right.
Yeah, it's definitely um, it'sdefinitely very, very important
work that, you know, whetheryou're in med device, you're in
pharma, you're in the OTC side,um, you know, US healthcare has
never been, you know, morecritical to our patient
population.
And so it's a really it's a veryrewarding industry um to be a
(02:09):
part of.
And it's constantly changing andconstantly evolving.
SPEAKER_01 (02:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
And I think for the better.
Right.
So yeah, it's it's fun to bepart of.
SPEAKER_03 (02:16):
Yeah.
We'll be we'll get to be a partof the Kiss a Pig Gala tomorrow,
raising more money for diabetesresearch.
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
That's right.
SPEAKER_03 (02:23):
So uh bring us in kind of how did you get into
sales?
What did you start in analytics?
SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (02:29):
What's that story?
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
Yeah.
So so when I graduated fromcollege, University of Arkansas,
Wu Pig Wu Pig.
Um, we I moved actually toSouthern California, and I was a
field rep for Newell Rubbermadeat the time.
And I had a 10-store Walmartterritory that I called on and
sort of like schleppedRubberMade containers, and we
(02:50):
had tools and we had foodstorage, we had all these
things.
Let's go.
SPEAKER_03 (02:53):
You must have been on the back, like the very back
end of in-store reps working forCPGs.
SPEAKER_00 (02:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
The program only lasted about ayear and a half, honestly.
So it was it was great sort oftraining that I think even to
this day still impacts me aboutlike at the end of the day, like
whatever decisions you make as asupplier, as a retailer,
somebody in a store somewhere inthe country has got to like pull
that through.
And you've really got to, youknow, the term eat what you cook
(03:19):
and get out there and like seefirsthand what's happening.
And it also really impressedupon me that the best ideas
don't come from sitting behind acomputer.
They often come from being inthe stores, hearing what people
have to say, and then gettingback behind that computer,
looking at the data, looking atthe research, and figuring out,
okay, what could the solutionpossibly be?
(03:41):
So when that program ended, youknow, a year and a half in,
because to your point, it waskind of at the tail end of that.
I moved to Bentonville andworked in our Newell Walmart
home office.
Um, and I worked as an analyst.
And so it was a fun time, youknow, there were a lot of
analysts in the office.
I got to learn very quickly frompeople that had been doing the
(04:02):
role for years and years andyears.
And they kind of moved me aroundover about a year and a half.
And I ended up landing on thewriting instrument desk.
And um, that was one of ourlargest, most profitable
businesses, very SKU-intensive,brands like Sharpie, brands like
Expo, Papermate, Unibol.
Um, and being the school supplynerd that I still am to this
(04:26):
day, who does not like to goback to school shopping, um, I,
you know, was advising our teamjust on a modular that was
coming up.
And we were standing at the modand and I just was saying how,
you know, the mod and the datadidn't look the same.
The mod was one way, the dataset another, in terms of what
(04:47):
people were buying, what wasgrowing, space to sales was off.
It just it just didn't make anysense.
And so um the buyer at the timelooked at me and said, Well,
then just do do what you think,and I want to see it.
And I'm gonna come backtomorrow.
And so I just spent hours justrearranging the whole thing.
Came back, he loved it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:06):
Sounds right from a timeline.
Yeah.
I'm gonna come back.
SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
I'm gonna come back tomorrow and I'm gonna get like
I'm gonna bring like my bag ofpopcorn from layout center.
Let's just do the whole thing.
And I'm gonna like you're gonnasmell like it all day.
Right, and you're gonna smelllike the burned popcorn all day.
And um, and so they theylaunched it and it and it
worked.
And so I he just looked at meand he was like, This is who I
want as my salesperson.
(05:30):
And so I was never reallysomebody that was very quote
sales-y, you know, I just didn'thave that way about me, but I
was very passionate about thedata and digging into the data
to see, you know, you havehypotheses, go, you know, go
check it out.
Okay, anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (05:47):
So as a merchant, that's my favorite kind of
salesperson.
SPEAKER_00 (05:51):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (05:51):
Because if it's the data, then you're just trying to
bring the customer's voice tolife.
And we should we're working onthe same problem together,
trying to figure out how to makewhat the customer wants come to
life on that shelf.
SPEAKER_00 (06:02):
Yeah, and you're going back and forth.
Store data, store data.
And you're trying to kind ofsee, okay, what really what
really is the customer tellingus, right?
SPEAKER_02 (06:11):
Yeah.
What era of you know the writingteam?
Is this Ed as the DMM back thenor Eddie Tet.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
Eddie Tet.
A legend.
SPEAKER_02 (06:22):
That guy.
SPEAKER_00 (06:23):
A legend.
SPEAKER_02 (06:23):
Eddie Tut, uh, retail journey coming to you
soon.
He's got that'd be a good one.
Come on, Ed.
SPEAKER_00 (06:29):
Let's yeah, he'll tell he'll tell you what's what.
SPEAKER_02 (06:31):
Yeah, no doubt.
SPEAKER_00 (06:32):
But you learn from people like that.
I remember him telling me onetime, don't stop pushing us.
Because there was something wewere trying to do for years and
years, and we just kept gettingtold no, and we kept getting
told no.
And he could tell that I wasgetting defeated and frustrated
about it.
But he just said, don't justdon't stop telling us what we
need to do.
Don't stop telling us the truth.
And I do not to like take a hardpivot, but I do think as, and
(06:56):
I'll say a supplier communityvery broadly, but you know, I do
think that we live in a timeright now where that can be
difficult.
But I think that those peoplewho do the hard work on the
front end, dig into theinformation, get out into the
stores, talk to consumers,figure out what really is needed
(07:17):
and where the gaps are, and arewilling to constructively
challenge their businesspartners, are going to be the
most successful.
And I think that I was veryfortunate early in my career to
work with people that did thatreally effectively in a way that
didn't come acrossdisrespectful, but came across
(07:38):
as like we are all on both sidesof the table, part of one team.
SPEAKER_01 (07:43):
Totally.
SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
And we have a collective responsibility to
bring the consumer and now thepatient, as we say in pharmacy,
the solutions that they areseeking to make their lives
better at the prices that theycan afford to pay.
And so I I put Eddie Tut in thatcategory of people that were
(08:06):
willing to sit at the table andcollaborate, truly collaborate
and like get into it.
Um so anyway, you're fortunatewhen you can find people like
that to work with.
SPEAKER_02 (08:15):
And that foundation is just irreplaceable for me.
You know, I think Eddie was thatuh for me.
He was a mentor while I wasthere.
Jody Pinson, um, Scott Huff,certainly.
Um, did you work with SethCordry?
SPEAKER_00 (08:30):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (08:30):
Back when he was there?
So he helped me get into thebuying program in general and
was over there.
But yeah, I I think it's thecourage of conviction and the uh
that's right, having the courageto be curious as you look at a
data set as opposed to like justfinding the least amount of
evidence necessary to support anassumption.
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
Yep.
Yeah, and I hope that as likesort of the next generation
comes up through um, you know,into the workforce that they too
will not be afraid toconstructively challenge sort of
what they're seeing and and howwe're how we're serving our
customers every day.
SPEAKER_02 (09:09):
Well, we're recording this, you know, days
after DSS is being announced asgoing away.
Walmart Illuminate will be thefoundation that new merchants
start with.
SPEAKER_00 (09:20):
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (09:20):
I'm so excited for a merchant to start with data that
actually ties together customerjourneys.
Whereas in DSS, you were usingan analogy to try to figure out
how units uh store per week.
You know, what which metrics andwhich stores, how do they
potentially tell acustomer-centric story?
And at the end of the day, Istill think there's nothing
(09:42):
better than go talk tocustomers.
SPEAKER_00 (09:45):
Because they'll tell you.
SPEAKER_02 (09:46):
They will tell you.
Uh store associates areincredible at store associates.
It is that unvarnished truth youget day in, day out.
They have to live with it.
I love that so much.
SPEAKER_00 (09:57):
You better, you better get ready and just grab a
seat.
SPEAKER_02 (09:59):
And the diabetic category is something crazy
important.
So I got to buy the diabetescategory.
That's right.
Um, very meaningful for me.
And I spend some time in thestore trying to learn from you
know what customers are lookingfor.
And I saw a uh lady in the theaisle sort of looking at these,
you know, two different glucosetablets, which are basically
(10:23):
quick introduction of sugarquickly absorbed, so to get you
higher when you're low.
Um, I was like, oh, cool.
That's uh, you know, what's uhlike do you mind telling me a
little bit about oh yeah, youknow, uh my uh my son passed out
again on the shop floor andwanted to uh what were his
(10:43):
numbers?
Like, oh I don't have a meter,we just borrow our you know
neighbor's meter every once in awhile, and I'm just like, oh my
goodness, this is your life.
And you're rolling the diceusing someone else's you know
meter and test trips at thetime.
I was trying to figure out howto get rely on meters from$18 to
$9.
I think they're still ninebucks.
(11:05):
Um there's a massive uh anymerchants out there, how about
50% off uh uh an$18 item withoutany history?
Uh, you know, no one had donethat before, so I had to fight a
lot for that.
But it's like you can't, wecan't not have meters in
customers' hands.
Like they have to be able toknow what's actually going on
(11:25):
because you're just treatingyou're just treating with
glucose tabs as opposed tounderstanding well, what is
actually going on.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
Well, and I think I think also in addition to just
gaps in you know affordabilityof of drug therapy and all
accompanying supplies is justsimply access to care in the
first place.
Oh, yeah.
Right.
I mean, we still have a largelyundiagnosed diabetes population.
We have um a big percentage ofthe population obviously lives
(11:55):
in you know medicallyunderserved communities that
don't have access to care.
And I think that what when Icame into this industry, I came
into this industry feeling verydrawn to it, but not really
fully understanding why.
And as a few years passed, Ibegan to realize that that this
retail access to health care wasthe thing that I was gonna get
(12:20):
really excited about.
Because, you know, whether youare, you know, someone who lives
in a medically underservedcommunity or you're a parent of
a child who's sick late atnight, or just the reality is
that care is not alwaysconvenient or accessible or
affordable.
But retail pharmacy and retailin general is beginning to fill
(12:42):
that gap in really excitingways, whether that is sort of
the continued growth andemergence of retail clinics,
whether that be the Walmarthealth centers, whether that's
you know, little clinics orminute clinics or you know, a
lot of these clinics that aredriven by the retailers.
I mean, most people now getimmunized at their retailers.
(13:03):
Now you're seeing the emergenceof COVID and flu and strep
testing at retailers with youknow prescribing on the spot.
And so I think that that goesback to an area where patients
want it.
We as a healthcare team, all ofus together, have to figure out
(13:25):
how to continue to deliver thatto people, not only because it's
what they want, but to yourearlier point, it's what's
needed in order to help people,you know, live their lives to
the fullest.
Um and so that can happen, youknow, and obviously you did that
on the OTC side of the business.
SPEAKER_03 (13:45):
Yeah, I get so jazzed about that.
Yeah.
And like Walmart with 4,700stores.
Yeah.
It could be 4,700 stores.
SPEAKER_00 (13:50):
Largely located in in medically underserved areas
of the country too.
So you almost feel this sense ofresponsibility to help, as you
talked about earlier, right?
Helping our partners to educate,helping to just to educate our
pharmacy partners so they inturn can deliver care.
SPEAKER_03 (14:10):
And yeah, so so sticking with diet diabetes, you
know, typically adult onsetdiabetes is something that's
maybe it's not sudden in itsdevelopment, but it's sudden in
its realization, right?
And and it's it's prettydaunting to get an endocrinology
appointment unless you've got areferral, which means you have
to have a doctor to to beginwith, and many don't.
(14:32):
Uh, and that's one of the that'sone of the things in the clinics
is an A1C check.
Uh so you could for you knowwhatever, 45 or 60 dollars have
a have appointment.
Um, you know, that personbecomes your primary, you get
your diagnosis, and you walk outof the store with the things you
need to treat that disease.
SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
It's that's right.
And everybody's looking forhelp.
So that's what we try to do.
That's and I think that's whatwe'll all continue to try to
partner up and do in all theways that you know, each each
particular retail pharmacypartner is different in terms of
how they do that.
So I think it's just it's uhit's important upon all of us to
be willing to be flexible assupplier partners to help our
(15:14):
partners serve their patientshow they how they do it.
SPEAKER_03 (15:18):
Well, let's uh let's pivot back to uh to uh strategic
partnerships, buildingrelationships with with
retailers.
That the two things that I thinkhave stood out to me over the
last 10 years of workingalongside you is one, your your
willingness and ability toreally get into data.
And in in most cases, it'sasking for the data that you
(15:38):
need, the way you need to seeit, um, getting that
understanding.
But then aside from that, it'sthe relationships that you build
with merchants, with uh thebroader cross-functional team.
Talk to us a little bit aboutyour process uh when you've you
know you've been in a fewdifferent categories, how you
approach a category and andwhere those kind of where those
connection points are inbuilding those relationships.
SPEAKER_00 (16:01):
Yeah, I'll start I'll start with what I think is
the worst thing you can do,which is like what I think I
would see people do.
And I think it's the naturaldefault, which is like to lead
with a solution, lead with aproduct, lead with, you know,
I'm here to tell you what Ihave, right?
And I make it about me and Imake it about my company.
I think the number one thingthat you have to do is spend a
(16:24):
lot of time in what I calldiscovery.
Right.
You, you by the time you sitdown to start trying to build
that partnership, you have toknow as much as you can possibly
know before you ever walk in thedoor, right?
What are they about?
What are their goals?
Who are the key players?
How do things work?
(16:45):
Like really get to know thatpartner.
And and then I think the firstconversations are always about
what is important to you all,what are you trying to
accomplish, right?
I think at the end of the day,everyone gets cascaded a list of
goals and priorities for thisyear, next year, et cetera.
And you've got your marchingorders.
(17:05):
And so the people that can cometo the table and help you
accomplish your goals with whatthey have to offer, yeah, those
are the people that are going tobe successful.
I think that that's number one.
I think number two, you have tothen, as you know, someone in my
seat, be willing to go fight onbehalf of your partner for what
(17:28):
you mutually believe is theright thing to do.
SPEAKER_03 (17:32):
So internally.
SPEAKER_00 (17:33):
Internally, I always joke, like, and I think any
supplier that listens to thiswill just nod their head.
Like dealing with your owncompany can typically be so much
harder than dealing with, youknow, usually spend more time.
And that goes for, I mean, youknow, anywhere.
And it's not that everyone isn'tum isn't trying to come from a
good place, but you know,everyone understands their own
(17:55):
limitations, right?
So it's about how do you build abigger vision for what you're
trying to accomplish togetherand like what's in it for all
parties involved.
SPEAKER_03 (18:05):
Um, because you're kind of a dual advocate as a
salesperson.
You're advocating for your brandand you're advocating for your
customer.
You absolutely are.
Making those two work together,yep.
Might take a few concessions orcompromises.
SPEAKER_00 (18:17):
Yeah.
And and and being willing tochallenge the status quo, be
willing to challenge the waythat things have always been
done.
Um, but also within that, youhave to have a very strong
financial business case, right?
For both sides.
So, how do you figure out how tomake that happen?
And then even interestingly,within retail pharmacy, I was
just having this conversationearlier with a partner.
(18:39):
Like, then you have to figureout how to get it done.
How are you gonna actuallyoperationalize that together?
Which again goes back to Wow, asalesperson is asking that
question.
unknown (18:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:51):
So then you got to get in the stores.
How are we gonna how are wegonna eat what we cook?
Yeah, right.
How are we gonna actually dothat?
Um, but I think so often it'svery easy to skip over the
discovery part and just jump tothe solution because you in your
mind you have a thing that youneed to move forward.
But you know, a pro a solutionwithout a problem is no solution
(19:15):
at all.
Right.
So what is the problem that'strying to be solved and then how
do you work together?
SPEAKER_02 (19:19):
Yeah, you know, to do that.
I think it takes courage to havethe conversation on the front
end.
It does.
I think it goes back to thelayout center, you know, room,
looking at the data, looking atthe model, like this doesn't add
up.
Yeah.
Um, the courage to say, like,this doesn't add up.
Uh we need to we need to dosomething that actually solves
the problem that we're bothaligned on.
(19:40):
And I think the the courage tostep into that conversation is
the is so critical.
SPEAKER_00 (19:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I also think that you haveto establish like where
everybody's coming from.
Right.
Again, it just goes back tolike, what are you trying to
accomplish?
What's important to you?
Um okay, right now I don't havethe answer.
I'm actually gonna take whatI've learned here and I'm gonna
go back.
I feel like I'm giving away allmy secrets.
SPEAKER_01 (20:06):
Fantastic.
SPEAKER_00 (20:08):
But honestly, like if you sit in there and you say
I've got the answer right righthere, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (20:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:14):
That's pretty rare.
SPEAKER_02 (20:15):
Yeah, yeah.
How do you know that you havethe answer?
You haven't heard the question.
SPEAKER_00 (20:19):
That's exactly right.
Right.
That's exactly right.
SPEAKER_02 (20:20):
You don't know the problem auto.
I know this is the solution.
Yeah.
Seeing it a lot.
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (20:25):
But it makes it more fun, and then everybody has skin
in the game.
And I think what what comes outis like so much better in the
process.
SPEAKER_03 (20:34):
So let's talk a little bit about uh joint
business planning.
Because that's kind of you know,you're you come in, discovery,
find the need, financially tieboth sides to to this solution.
And then there's year two, andthen there's year three.
SPEAKER_00 (20:47):
That's right.
SPEAKER_03 (20:48):
And that's kind of where joint business planning
can come in.
SPEAKER_00 (20:51):
Yeah, I mean, I think that you know, with your
with your best joint businessplanning partners, you're you're
always talking a couple of yearsdown the road, right?
It gets back to like the visioncasting, it's but gets back to,
you know, taking some time tojust kind of dream together and
say, what do we really think ispossible if we could, you know,
have all the stars aligned.
(21:12):
Um, I think one of the most thetimes where joint business
planning has also been the mosteffective is when everyone is
unafraid to bring other peopleinto the room.
SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:25):
I think that sometimes we all get a little
bit protective of our territoryand we say, well, I mean, I
could say, like, well, I'm theI'm the salesperson and this is
the buyer.
And, you know, it if it's justthe two of you all the time,
you're you're only getting twoperspectives.
Right.
But if you bring, you know, anoperator and a marketer and you
know, someone from digital, andI bring a marketer and I bring
(21:46):
somebody from product, and thenwe all pull together, right?
We dream, we cast a big visiontogether, then we've got a
couple of years worth of stuffto be working on, right?
And some things are going to beshorter term.
Some things are going to belonger term.
But I think that when you havemore people bought in and you
have more skin in the game, Iwas talking to somebody about
(22:09):
this earlier.
You know, that makes a bigdifference in terms of cascading
things up to leadership.
SPEAKER_01 (22:15):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:15):
It's one thing for one person to go for leadership.
Yeah.
And say, like, we need to dothis thing, versus if six people
get together and they go toleadership and they say, we need
to do this thing.
Right.
Um, and so, but I do think partof the joint business planning
process after you get throughthat discovery and once you sort
of create those goals, is youyou do have to get out there and
(22:36):
you got to sell to a lot ofother stakeholders, right?
And you have to do thattogether.
Um, I remember one of theprograms that we did a couple of
years ago, and we had to take itall the way up to the VP of
pharmacy operations and get hisbuy-in.
So we had to get the VP ofmerchant merchandising to
approve it first and then shit.
So you're like really having toget a lot of major stakeholders
(22:59):
involved.
And it was a huge success andeveryone was really happy.
But it was, it wasn't easygetting there.
It took a lot of courage.
Yep.
It took a very strong businesscase, it took a very tight
operational plan.
SPEAKER_03 (23:11):
Um but if your starting point is a shared goal,
that's in the end.
SPEAKER_00 (23:15):
We were all fired up and we were we all really
believed in what we were tryingto do.
And and that that will buy yousome trust, I think.
Because I do think leaderstoday, um, you know, executive
level leaders are they'relooking for new ideas.
They're looking for fresh ideas.
And um and I I think one of themy favorite things about the
(23:39):
work that I've done over theyears is that it's been so
collaborative.
SPEAKER_01 (23:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:43):
And so it's never one person.
And I think joint businessplanning kind of forces you to
pull a lot of stakeholders inand it makes it better and more
successful.
SPEAKER_03 (23:53):
I like your point on leaders looking for for new
ideas.
I mean, that's probably alwaysbeen somewhat true, but
post-COVID, I feel like it'seven more of a thing.
We went, I mean, we basicallyhad two and a half shared years
of trauma and recovery comingout.
And now uh one of the, if youwant to call it benefits, uh,
and certainly COVID wasn't abenefit, but one of the the
(24:15):
things that have come about fromthat is there's a little bit
bigger box, you know, when youtalk about b being outside of
the box, the the idea that,well, we kind of have to do it
this way because we've done itthis way.
We've now done so many thingsdifferently that we never did
before, whether it's you know,speeding up Omni or online
grocery pickup, uh delivery ofgroceries now, delivery of just
(24:36):
about anything, um, that there'sthere is more of an appetite and
a willingness to okay, let'sswing for the fence on this one.
SPEAKER_00 (24:42):
Well, and consumer expectations have changed.
Like we're we're used to beingable to pick up our phones,
press a button, and havesomething arrive in two hours or
less.
unknown (24:52):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
Yeah.
That's the new standard.
Right.
Like you if I get online and youtell me it's gonna be a week,
I'm like, I'm going somewhereelse.
SPEAKER_02 (24:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:59):
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (25:00):
If I mean rewind 10 years ago and their current
reality is insane.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:05):
Yeah.
And so I think you've just gotto keep up with no matter what
category you're in.
Um the the consumer standard, Ithink, has never been higher.
And I think their expectationsof value have never been higher
because now they have access toso much more.
I mean, it goes back tohealthcare, right?
Like I now, depending upon myhealthcare provider, can
(25:27):
literally just pick up my phoneand talk to a doctor.
SPEAKER_03 (25:30):
Right.
Right.
And that's a COVID innovation.
SPEAKER_00 (25:32):
That's a COVID innovation.
It's certainly something thatCOVID dramatically accelerated.
So you're seeing retailers getinto telehealth in a way that
they never had before, insurancecompanies with telehealth.
So yeah, we're we're veryparticular now, consumers.
We're very we're very highmaintenance.
SPEAKER_03 (25:50):
Yeah, it's more information.
All right.
Well, let's uh let's move to ourlightning round here.
Okay.
Um, what in your business areyou most looking forward to in
2024?
SPEAKER_00 (26:02):
Well, some things I can't really share.
Okay.
That you can kid it.
Um I think that so part of myjob is I I lead a team of people
that work with differentretailers.
And I think that one of the mostrewarding things to me is to
conceive is to see how thoseteam members grow and develop
(26:24):
and the way that their skillsets are expanding and the way
that they're learning to thinkdifferently.
And I think that that that is sorewarding.
And as like we as a team talkabout the things that we've all
talked about, it's like thingsstart to click for people.
And they and they realize thatlike what we do at the end of
the day, it's not hard.
(26:45):
It just requires a willingnessto dig in and be part of a team
and do the work.
SPEAKER_01 (26:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:52):
But you don't have to be some like savvy, you know,
right, savvy slick salespersonor whatever.
SPEAKER_03 (27:01):
The things that go on the resume are the
achievements.
But the thing, at least in myexperience, the things you enjoy
the most are the people you workwith, especially as a leader, to
see them develop and reach theirpotential.
Like that's the part that ismotivating.
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (27:14):
That's right.
It's very rewarding.
And then I think also just, youknow, our industry in particular
is just ripe with some excitinginnovation.
Yeah.
And so I think that I'm I'mreally optimistic about the
things that, you know, we'rework working on as a company.
I'm very excited about thethings that other companies and
our space are working on.
Um, I think if you are a parentof a small child that was
(27:37):
diagnosed with type one in thelast decade and you had access
to CGM, you it was a gamechanger relative to friends of
mine that had type one childrenbefore CGM.
SPEAKER_01 (27:47):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (27:48):
Right.
And so I think that that I'mjust pretty fired up about some
of the things that are on theirway for our industry to help
people um, you know, stayhealthy.
SPEAKER_03 (27:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's great.
Uh, what's on your reading list?
SPEAKER_00 (28:01):
Okay, I'm actually reading the Elon Musk biography
by Walter Isaacson right now.
It is a beast.
It's a beast.
And I don't know that Elon'smanagement tactics are
necessarily my managementtactics, but you have to
obviously have to give him animmense amount of credit for,
like we talked about, beinginnovative, pushing the status
(28:23):
quo, not being afraid to, youknow, rock the boat.
SPEAKER_01 (28:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:28):
Um, but boats are rocked.
He rocks the boat.
Um, love him or hate him, but itis a beast of a read.
I'm gonna have to like audiobook it at some point so I can
get through it.
SPEAKER_02 (28:39):
Yeah.
Biggest win in retail.
unknown (28:42):
Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_00 (28:44):
You know what I was so proud of is in my writing
instrument days, this is anexample.
Um, the buyer at the time wanteda Sharpie Black Friday item, but
he wanted it to look like apizza box.
And he wanted all the Sharpiesto sort of fan around.
And you talk about the thingwhere you just literally had to
(29:04):
fight I had to fight tooth andnail for that thing.
Like I never fought for anythingin my career.
I mean, it was completedeparture from brand
architecture.
I mean, you name it and it was alimit.
And we got it done and we soldthrough 80% of them in by noon.
SPEAKER_01 (29:24):
Oh, awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (29:26):
And I just felt so because I thought, if this
doesn't sell, yeah, praise God,I'm gonna have to like shop my
resume out there.
SPEAKER_00 (29:34):
And um, and it did, but it and every year they still
they do it every year, and everyyear I just beam with pride.
SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (29:41):
And when I see the latest iteration, oh yeah, it's
like they're still doing it andit does so well and it makes a
lot of people happy.
And I was, I I mean, there's alot of things I was really I'm
really proud of, but that one inparticular just pops into mind.
SPEAKER_03 (29:55):
That's a really cool story.
And what do you do to de-stressto relax?
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
Well, I do love to read.
Um, so that is definitely ade-stressor when I can.
Um, I love to cook when I can.
Um, but you know, mostly I'm ina season of life right now.
I have a 10-year-old son, I havean eight-year-old daughter.
Not a lot of relaxes.
No, there's not a lot ofrelaxes.
SPEAKER_01 (30:17):
Let's go.
SPEAKER_00 (30:18):
I spend a lot of time at the cheer gym and the
football field.
Um, but I think that um, youknow, I wouldn't say that that's
necessary, necessarily relaxing,but it's very rewarding.
SPEAKER_01 (30:33):
Rewarding, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:34):
And, you know, I mean, you all have children, you
know, this season of life isshort.
And so I'm I'm actually verythankful that I can do work that
I love, but also be the kind ofparent that I want to be.
And I'm I'm very thankful to bein a line of work that lets me,
I think, do both to the way thatI want to.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (30:53):
Yeah.
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us.
Thanks for having me.
It's been fun.
You came all the way from LittleRock.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (30:59):
Well, anytime I'm I'm just honored to be here and
love you guys are doing this.
SPEAKER_03 (31:04):
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you.
And as always, thank you all forjoining us here on the retail
journey.
You can find all of our episodeson highimpactanalytics.com or
wherever you download yourpodcast.
Thanks a lot.
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