October 16, 2025 • 51 mins
Isaac Brickner leads the Los Angeles branch of Jews for Jesus, a 50-year-old ministry with a single focus: relentlessly pursuing God’s plan for the salvation of the Jewish people. In this conversation, Isaac recounts his family’s story—from a businessman’s faithful witness in Ukraine generations ago to his own calling at the Western Wall as God whispered, “They don’t know.”
We unpack identity tension (being Jewish and following Jesus), why the New Testament is deeply Jewish, what “the remnant” means (Romans 9–11), and how the biblical feasts point to Jesus—past and future. We also talk about how Christians can wisely love Jewish neighbors amid rising antisemitism, why “leave them alone” isn’t love, and why the best way to “support Israel” is to bring the hope of the gospel to Israelis and Palestinians alike.
If you’ve ever wondered how to share Jesus with Jewish friends without being pushy—or how to see the Bible’s big story with fresh eyes—this one will steady your heart and sharpen your witness.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:11):
Hey, friends, and welcome back to the Rev RX podcast.
I'm Chad Potts, and I'm your host.
Today we're going to have a conversation that sits at the
very heart of the gospel. My guest today is Isaac Richter.
Isaac leads the Los Angeles branch of Jews for Jesus, a
ministry that's been around for over 50 years with a singular
focus, their laser focus on relentlessly pursuing God's plan
(00:36):
for the Jewish people for salvation of the Jews.
You see, Isaac's story was changed in one generation
because one believer was bold enough, a Christian believer was
bold enough to share Jesus with his family.
And years later, standing at theWestern Wall, Isaac received his
call to the Jewish people. He heard these 3 words on his
(00:59):
heart. They don't know.
And so he spent his life making sure that the people of his very
heritage, Jewish people all overthis world, that they know about
the good news of Jesus. If you've ever wondered how
Jewish and Jesus fit together, If you've ever wondered how to
love your Jewish neighbors with wisdom and courage in a tense
(01:20):
cultural moment such as this, ifyou ever wondered why it's
important to us as Christians today in America to understand
or to empathize or to support Israel, then you're in the right
place. We're going to talk about
identity. We're going to talk about how
biblical feasts that are now celebrated and commemorated by
(01:43):
Jews actually point straight to Jesus and why the best way to
support Israel today is not to take some big political stand,
but to pray for their salvation,for them to trust in the hope of
the gospel. Israelis and Palestinians alike,
don't get lost into politics, guys.
(02:04):
Grab a seat, open your heart andlet's go.
I introduce you to my new friendIsaac.
I thank you so much for being here on the Rev RX Podcast.
What a privilege it is to have you here on the show.
Yeah, Thanks so much, Chad. It's a privilege to be here.
I'm honored to be a guest here, man.
Yeah, well, you're a part of an organization, a greater
(02:26):
organization called Jews for Jesus, and I want to get into
that in a second. Sure.
Before we do that, though, man, I'd love for you to just unpack
your story. I have chills from the story you
told me a minute ago about how your family's story changed in
one generation and the impact that God can have on that.
So. So man, tell us who Isaac is.
How did you get here? How did you become the man
(02:47):
sitting in the studio today hereon the Rev RX Podcast?
Yeah, thanks, man. It's a privilege to unpack that
a little bit. I'm like, I'm just a Jewish kid
from San Francisco, and I servedhere with Jews for Jesus in Los
Angeles. I lead our Los Angeles branch,
and I moved here pretty much right after high school.
(03:08):
And my story cannot be told without telling my family's
story, which is something that Ithink growing up like, it
frustrated me because my dad's in ministry, his dad's in
ministry, his father in And it'sjust like, you know, the joke
(03:33):
within the Jewish community is like when you grow up, you can
be a doctor, a lawyer or a failure.
And like within my family, it was totally different because
everyone was in ministry, like pastors, evangelists, etcetera.
And that's because several generations ago, back in
Ukraine, there was this like Christian businessman praying
(03:54):
for a witness to the Jewish people, like desiring to reach
Jewish people with the gospel. And he had an apprentice who is
from the Jewish community. He came to him and he ended up
leading him to faith in Jesus. And that was my great, great
grandmother's first husband who had passed away.
She remarried to my great, greatgrandfather.
(04:15):
But basically through that one encounter changed the course of
my family's history. And every generation since then,
we've actually been involved in ministry to our own people.
Well, maintaining our heritage as Jewish followers of Jesus,
that distinctive of people who, you know, are part of what Paul
(04:36):
calls the remnant of Israel, people who are following Jesus
unapologetically as Jews. Not kind of like capitulating to
just say, oh, it's like maybe a cultural part of MyHeritage that
used to be important, but now I'm just going to kind of like
get lost within this like assimilation process within the
(04:58):
church, which I love the church,but preserving cultural
distinctions are important. And I think that's actually a
unique calling that God has given to Jewish followers of
Jesus. So that's one part of it I have
to kind of like explain, but formyself growing up in San
Francisco, public school education all the way, really
(05:19):
difficult to kind of stand up for faith in many way without
looking very weird and let alonealso like claiming Jewish
identity and faith in Jesus kind.
Of the double whammy there. One year and Francisca like
tightrope of like identity and I'm a millennial.
(05:42):
I was born in late 80s like smack dab in the middle of that
generation. Identity is like such a huge
became such a huge thing in my like coming of age.
And so it was much easier to just kind of like stuff that
down and pretend like it wasn't that important to me and just
kind of fit in. And so I resonate a lot with
(06:04):
like in the book of James, he calls a double minded man this,
this idea of like believing one thing and doing another thing.
That was very true of me, as it is a lot of kids who grew up
within the faith and kind of hadto come to a point, really when
(06:27):
I was 19, I've moved out of the house.
I was here in Los Angeles. I was going to a new church plan
and kind of just wanted to see if I actually was going to stick
with it. Honestly.
Like I had seen God do some pretty great things in my life,
so I couldn't deny who he was and the truth of the gospel.
(06:51):
I'd seen God do amazing things, but didn't know if I was going
to actually, like, take the plunge and live for him as an
adult, as a young adult. And then just a simple sermon.
It was a sermon on Peter's denial of Jesus, where the
pastor kind of let you trace, like, how many steps away from
(07:12):
Jesus have you really taken in your life?
And I was like, I'm not that far, am I?
And then I realized, oh, OK, I'mjust, I'm living my own way.
There is a definitive moment. And it was that summer actually
after that church service where I really, I think first
experienced like and understood the grace of God that I traveled
(07:34):
to Israel for the first time andor not, sorry, not the first
time, first time as an adult. I had traveled for like my bar
mitzvah and a couple other times, but first time as an
adult and I went with this program that Jews for Jesus has.
And we were traveling around thecountry.
We came to the Western Wall in Jerusalem, which is like kind of
(07:57):
the holiest site in Judaism. And I like went up to the wall
and we put like prayers on theselittle papers and like place
them in the cracks of the wall to kind of like pray for peace
of Jerusalem and all these things.
I'm standing there and to my right and to my left are these
ultra Orthodox Jewish men davening, which is like a prayer
(08:20):
practice for you, like kind of go like this back and forth.
And I was just like overwhelmed with emotion and I heard God
whisper just three words they don't know.
And I just like it wrecked me. So at the time, I didn't
recognize that as a like a direct call to ministry, but in
(08:42):
retrospect and in processing andin prayer with friends and
stuff, it was very clear, like that's what that was.
And so I haven't really looked back from that moment.
Love it, man. I've got chills all over
listening to that story and man,isn't that?
Isn't that all of ours call? They don't know, you know, and,
(09:03):
and looking around this world atthe state of our country right
now and, and feeling that sense that God's whispering to us,
they don't Who's going to tell them?
Yeah, that's Romans 10. Like how will they know?
Unless like someone goes and preaches, you know?
Absolutely. And what a what a great call of
ministry into ministry that thatwas.
So you're doing you're, you're now with Jesus for Jesus.
(09:25):
And I want to, I want to unpack a little bit though, before we
get into that, because your story's so relatable.
You know, I, I think I grew up in the Bible Belt, right?
But Even so, you know, it's almost like it's, it's more
unpopular not to go to church over here than it is to have
faith. But real authentic faith is
(09:45):
different. And, you know, living out,
living out the fruit of the spirit, the living out
Christlikeness that looks radical everywhere and that
looks radical in every generation and in every part of
this world. There's, there's always this
temptation. And, and I told you, I pastor
young adults. And so that's kind of that
college and young family age. And that's where, you know, we
(10:06):
leave the comforts of our home and then we have to kind of
believe what we believe because we believe it now and not just
because it's what mom and dad believe, or that's what I was
told to believe. And, and there becomes this real
sense of, you know, I, I feel like I need to suppress that to
fit in. And, and that's what you
experience. And that's really powerful
because so many of us, I think can relate to that.
(10:27):
There's this temptation to fit in.
But you know, I want to kind of edge that by saying, oh, if
you're fitting in this world, that's not the goal here.
And and you sensed that, didn't you?
You know, you had that double minded conviction of sorts.
I believe one thing, but I'll look a different way on the
outside. And so, you know, I wanted to
say that to our listeners. We've all been there.
We get that. No one wants to look different.
(10:48):
No one wants to to be eccentric or to or to stand out in a
crowd. But you know, we kind of have to
if we're going to be doing this Christianity thing true
authentic walk with God looks radical.
And then as you went through youwent and I want so bad to go to
Israel. I'm not sure now, you know,
(11:08):
maybe we will speak to this in aminute.
I don't know if now's a great time, but, and it may be fine,
but I feel like there's just something powerful about walking
in the in the world where her Bible was written.
And and I I'm, yeah, I I really admire that you getting to the
wall and God putting that call in your life right there.
(11:33):
I mean, what a better place for that, right?
Yeah, and I almost like cringe telling the story to be honest
because it's such a stereotype. It is.
It's like, of course it's going to happen there, right?
But it is, it is powerful. Like I love to encourage people
to visit and to like, because itdoes help take the Bible
(11:59):
seriously when you sit there andgo like, oh, this happened right
there. It's kind of like a very for
believers especially. I think apologetics are more
important for people who are believers to reinforce faith
than it is for people who are not believers yet.
Yeah, I agree with that. And it's a powerful apologetic
(12:20):
to just say like, this is not a fairy tale.
This is real. But I, I will also be the first
to discourage Christians when they go from treating it like
Bible Disneyland because it's a,it's a senior sincere temptation
to just kind of like, I'm going to buy the T-shirt.
(12:40):
I'm going to take this the picture.
I'm going to like do all the things and like get the
anointing oils and all the the junk for the people to.
Bring back the selfie next to it, yeah.
Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a bucket
list item for me and I, and I really hope I can make that
happen soon, but praying about it.
Lord's going to open that door when it's time.
(13:02):
That's right. But but transitioning over.
So Jews for Jesus, you mentionedto me offline before we started,
there's a single minded theme, the single minded purpose.
Tell us about the organization that you're involved with.
Tell us about the goal, the mission, the purpose.
And I love it so much, but I'm going to let you say it.
(13:23):
Yeah, we're, we're over 50 yearsold as an organization now,
started in 1973. And our mission is that we
relentlessly pursue God's plan for the salvation of the Jewish
people. And that's a mission that we can
pursue until Jesus comes back, because that's, that's part of
(13:44):
his plan. And we know that it's, it's
something that really defines inour core value, top core value
is passion for the lost. What we do is reach Jewish
people with the gospel because we are Jewish people who've been
transformed by the gospel. And all of our frontline
ministry staff are either Jewishthemselves or they're married to
(14:09):
a Jewish person and a Jewish family.
And we make an impact for the Kingdom of God amongst our
Jewish people. So we because of that, you know,
because of the time that we're in right now, we get invited to
talk about all sorts of like different conversations about
(14:30):
the Middle East and Israel and things that verge on political.
But what we love to say is that we're a we're A1 issue ministry
in that sense. All we really care about is that
our Jewish people get the chanceto meet the Messiah for
themselves. Awesome and I'm a big believer
in the things that you've been delivered from you are then
(14:51):
called to deliver others who arein the same boat and who better
to reach Jews for Jesus then guys like yourself?
And you know, you're thinking back to that family history and
and where that just changed the trajectory of your entire
family. And so you know, to those
listeners that may not be maybe as in tune with what's going on
here. I want to kind of keep this at a
(15:11):
one-on-one level. And so when we think about, all
right, you're, you're seeking and attempting to bring Jesus to
the Jews, that may sound weird on surface level, right?
Because you also mentioned that you're, you know, we're seeking
the lost here. So help us think about that for
those that may not be all that familiar with Bible, Bible, you
(15:32):
know, wasn't Jesus a Jew, that kind of thing.
So calling people who are practicing Orthodox Jews,
Judaism, calling those lost, help us think through that.
Sure. Yeah.
I mean, when you think about Jewish people believing in
(15:53):
Jesus, it sounds some to some, like I'm saying vegans for bacon
or something like that, right? Like because you don't put those
things in the same sentence normally.
But like you said, I mean, Jesusis Jewish.
All of his disciples were Jewish.
And like we like to say, you know, all of the writers of the
New Testament were Jewish exceptfor Luke, but he was a doctor,
(16:13):
so who knows, maybe he was Jewish too, right?
So there are a lot of Jewish doctors.
But yeah, like when it came to salvation history and what we
see happening within the gospel story within the book of Acts
and afterwards is that there waslarge scale rejection of the
gospel amongst my Jewish people,specifically within the rabbinic
(16:33):
authorities after the destruction of the Second
Temple. But in Acts, we see there's a
whole bunch of religious Jewish people who were followers of
Jesus. And Paul in the book of Romans
calls Jewish believers in Jesus a remnant.
So we know automatically right there it's going to be a smaller
(16:54):
percentage of the Jewish community that believes.
That's his whole argument in Romans 9:10 and 11:00, that
there's this, you know, God has not failed in his plan of
salvation. His promises are not null and
void just because a majority of Jewish people don't believe in
(17:16):
Jesus, and what Paul demonstrates is that that's
always been the case. Yeah, yeah.
Is the way that it's the way that it is, and that's not a
surprise. Not at all.
It's even, it's part of his plan.
And so when it comes to Judaism,a lot of Christians see, you
know, Judaism, and they'll say, OK, they're reading the Old
(17:37):
Testament. What's What's the?
Problem with that, you know, isn't that just like
Christianity minus Jesus? Yeah, it's like pre
Christianity. Yeah.
And what we kind of have to unpack for a lot of people is
like, no, Judaism is not like Old Testament only.
And like it's not Christianity minus Jesus.
(17:59):
It's if you did add Jesus to Judaism, you don't get like
Christianity. You get something totally
different. That said there there are such
things called Messianic Jews, which I would consider myself
one, and there's, there are Jewish manners of worshipping
Jesus. So if you hear Messianic
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Judaism, it's kind of a loaded term we can unpack and, and
maybe another time, I don't know.
But when it comes to the Jewish community, there's, there is the
Torah that's like the main document.
And then you have the Tanakh, which is the Torah, the
(18:39):
prophets, and the writings. That's what we consider the Old
Testament, although in the Jewish Bible it's written in
different order. But what most Jewish people read
is not the Old Testament in its totality.
It's commentary on the Torah written by rabbis much later
than the Torah, and so that the entry point for engaging with
(19:04):
what we consider to be God's Word is actually already through
a layer of commentaries and traditions and things that
within Judaism they believe has to mediate our interaction with
God's Word. Sure.
And so then the next question I have is, is very similar to that
and it's for someone practicing Orthodox Judaism.
(19:29):
How did they say Jesus? What's their view of Jesus?
Totally depends. There's been a major effort to
reclaim Jesus as one of us. He was a good Jewish boy.
He was maybe even a great teacher, great rabbi.
But then his followers turned him into something that he's
(19:51):
not. So basically and I get gets like
Jewish people around having to say negative things about Jesus
potentially. But it's the fault of Christians
or, you know, his followers thatturned him into what they would
call a false Messiah. But within the Jewish community,
(20:13):
especially the ultra Orthodox Jewish community, and we can get
into those distinctions if you'dlike.
They wouldn't even say his name.It would be.
We don't talk about that. Got you off limits.
And so so I think that's the distinction, right, Is what do
you do with Jesus? You kind of have to wrestle with
that. That's, that's the, that's the
hey, isn't that the worldwide dilemma?
(20:33):
Yeah. The human dilemma What do we do
with Jesus? Matthew 16 Who do you say that I
am? Exactly the question.
It is. We all have to answer that.
And depending on how you answer that, that that depends on where
you fall. But for those practicing
Orthodox Judaism, Jesus is not the Messiah, Jesus is not God,
(20:53):
He's not the second member of the Trinity.
And so that changes everything. You know, that's not just a
Christianity minus Christ. I mean, you take away Christ.
It's not Christianity, but you know, it's, it's not that
simple, is it? It's really a an issue to where,
you know, they're they're still,correct me if I'm wrong, kind of
waiting on a Messiah to come. Is that?
Yeah, again, it would depend on your Jewish background and what
(21:16):
kind of sect of religion you kind of espouse, but.
Maybe over simplistic then, yeah?
For the majority I would say of like devout religious orthodox
Jews, then they would say yes, the Messiah is yet to come.
Sure. There's a lot of nuance within
that. There's a whole sect, actually
(21:37):
the largest sect of ultra Orthodox Judaism called Chabad,
which you would see if you're ina major city and you're in
within a Jewish community or at a university.
They're everywhere there. There's only like 1 sect of
Judaism that is like outreach oriented trying to get other
people to practice Judaism. And it's those guys, gotcha.
(21:58):
You'll see them at the mall trying to get Jewish people to
rap what's called feeling, whichare like these straps that have
prayers written on them and it'sa way that they pray.
But those, there's a percentage of those folks that actually
believe that their chief rabbi, Menachem Shearson, was the
Messiah and he was a rabbi who. Moved.
(22:19):
To New York and like 70s and or moved earlier, but was primarily
in ministry in New York in the 70s and he was kind of a very
wise man and like learned and kind of a sage and they there
are some that think that he's the Messiah and that he's coming
back. Well, very interesting and you
(22:43):
know, it, it, it kind of comes down to this.
Do you believe again, who do yousay I am that Jesus is the way,
the truth of life, that there isone way to the Father and it is
Jesus. And that's kind of what that's
where it comes down to now. Your family was reached with the
gospel and ever since then againyour trajectory has changed and
you were raised as a How would you identify yourself a
(23:05):
Christian Jew and. It depends on like who you talk
to, like their comfort level with using the term Christian.
I have no problem calling myselfa Jewish Christian.
I usually like to make sure thatthe person I'm talking to knows
what Christian means because terms, words are so important.
You know, God created the world with words and so use, use the
(23:27):
right ones. So when I, when I talk about,
yeah, what do you even know whatChristian means?
Christ is the Greek kind of transliteration of Christos.
Christos was the Greek translation of Mashiach, which
means Messiah. So you're a person of the
Messiah. I have no problem identifying
myself that way. And, you know, and now you're
(23:50):
perpetuating the gospel as we all should do and reaching the
lost. And, and, and I love that
because the context that you're in is exactly where you're
called to. And, and I want to talk about
this a little bit too, because I'm fascinated by this idea that
(24:10):
that you're kind of in the middle of both sides.
And, you know, it's almost like Christians don't, I'm sure maybe
that there's some Christians that don't really quote UN quote
approve of what you're doing. I'm sure that there's some Jews
that don't quote UN quote approve of what you're doing.
So you kind of find yourself in the middle a little bit, right,
like with as an individual, but then also as Jews for Jesus.
(24:30):
Talk to us about that a little bit.
Unpack that situation to where you feel like you're, you know,
both sides really don't like what I'm doing, but yet I'm
doing what I feel that God's called me to do.
And, and where you find yourselfthere.
Sure. Yeah.
And it's not really like something on we're on a
day-to-day basis. I'm like everyone hates me but
(24:51):
thankfully. But yeah depending.
On that right. No, depending on who I'm talking
to, they'll have kind of an incredulous like look on their
face when I mentioned, Oh yeah, I work with Jews for Jesus.
I love it because it gets into conversate.
I hate small talk, personally. So getting into the meat of like
(25:11):
what life and truth and existence are really about
within like a few seconds is pretty cool.
And so, yeah, but for for Jewishpeople to say that I'm with Jews
for Jesus and that I'm Jewish follower of Jesus, like it can
yield all sorts of reactions. Sure.
(25:33):
I can attest to that because I've told a couple people, hey,
I'm interviewing this guy with Jesus for Jesus, so excited
about it. And they're like, what?
Yeah, No, no, no, no, no. Just just wait.
Just wait. Yeah, it's all good stuff.
It's like, you know, for for Jewish folks, it's kind of like,
well, that's a contradiction. That's impossible for a lot of
Jewish people. Once you believe in Jesus,
(25:54):
you're no longer Jewish. If you've been baptized, that
like kind of have to turn in your Jewish card.
And it's kind of the funniest thing because you can be Jewish
and do just about any other spiritual practice under the
sun. Believe whatever you want to
believe, including that there's no God whatsoever and that
(26:15):
Judaism and Jewish people is just this kind of ancient myth
and you're still Jewish, but themoment you place your faith in
Jesus, you're one of them now. Game changer.
And to point out the inconsistencies within that is
like some of my life's work and what I enjoy the most.
And so I love being able to havethose conversations.
(26:35):
But then, yeah, within, within the church as well.
It can be a lightning rod for people because like you were
saying, like, aren't the Jewish people kind of like good with
God? Like, don't they have their own
covenants? Like, why?
Why are you trying to, like, stir the pot there?
Like after so many years of church history where the Jewish
people have been persecuted and the Crusades and the Spanish
(26:57):
Inquisition and stuff, can't we just like, leave the Jewish
people alone and let them do their own thing?
And it's kind of like that's probably one of the least loving
things you could possibly imagine.
Like if you believe that ultimate truth, hope, love,
fulfillment, meaning, joy, purpose, and eternity are found
(27:19):
in knowing Jesus. And you want to keep that from
Jewish people because of history, because of discomfort,
because of whatever you name it.That is a lack of love
ultimately. And we don't think of it that
way. And I wouldn't say people are
actively like trying to do that when they say I'll just leave
them alone, whatever. But that's ultimately what it is
(27:42):
because the most loving thing you can do as a believer in
Jesus is to share Jesus. Winsome Lee convictingly, like
sensitively with a person. And that's that's so important
and being able to kind of shift your perspective of, you know,
if they're, if they're not believing in Jesus, then they're
(28:03):
lost. Doesn't matter how how old their
religious structure is, doesn't matter kind of what's happened
through the ages, you know. Yeah.
Just leave them. Leaving them alone is the worst
thing you could do, you know, And we face a lot of that just
in general with, you know, the great, the Great Commission,
right, You know, go and make disciples.
Well, a lot of times we're scared to do that all.
I don't want to stir the pot, like you said.
(28:26):
I don't. I don't want to disrupt people.
We live in a society which kind of tells us we just need to live
and let be. You do you.
I do me will agree to disagree, but you're right.
If you kind of come to this crisis of belief to where if you
really believe what you say you believe and you really believe
that there is one way truth in life, one way to the father,
(28:48):
then you're kind of confronted with this.
Well, don't don't you want everyone to know that?
And and that's no different. It's scary.
Like, hey, I'm not going to pretend like just because
vocationally I do this and tell people about Jesus that it's
become easier. It's it's absolutely terrifying
to put yourself out there like and just say, yeah, I believe
(29:12):
there's ultimate truth. I believe this is the most
important thing you can know. And I think that it's worth me
being super discomforted right now and like having this awkward
conversation with you. There's like that classic
interview right, with the Penn Jillette about like getting
pushed out of the way of a truckor something like that.
And he said like, how, how like much do you have to hate me to
(29:33):
not push me out of the way of a truck if the truck's like
bearing down on me? It's like that's he is an
atheist. Like he doesn't believe in these
at all. But like he sees the importance
of having a conviction when it comes to ultimate things, when
it comes to eternal life, Like you got to do something about.
It yeah. And that's a that's a challenge
to all of us, to everyone listening.
(29:56):
So when it comes to Christians looking at the work you're
doing, I think maybe this takes us to where you can describe for
us a little bit about what it looks like on a, you know, on a
daily basis to to be a Jew for Jesus, so to speak.
And what does that look like in your daily life?
And how does that differ from how I'm going to say us
Gentiles, those who aren't in the Jewish faith, who, who don't
(30:18):
come from that custom and don't come from that background, how
is that different? Because I think a lot of times
we get our belief system that, OK, well, if you're, you were a
Jew now, you're a Christian now,you just give all that up from
some of Paul's words that, you know, weren't necessarily meant
(30:38):
to be taken the way that we takethem sometimes.
Can you elaborate on that a little bit?
Just walk us through your your walk with God, if you will.
Yeah, sure. There's the personal practice
things that I think is up to, honestly, every person's
conviction and their conscience and how God leads them.
And within my family, we celebrate Shabbat on Friday
(30:59):
night and we observe that. And we don't do it in a way that
a lot of the Jewish community would, where you like, turn off
all the lights and can't do any work and that kind of stuff.
But that's a it's important rhythm for us to stay connected
to the Jewish community and really understand that God gave
us this weekly rhythm of a day of rest for a reason.
(31:22):
And every time a society's triedto do away with that, it's been
detrimental for what it means tobe human.
So there's that part of things, but I mean, we're here talking
actually at the beginning of theFeast of Sukkot, which is the
Feast of Tabernacles. So just last night, my team and
I built a sukkah, which is a temporary dwelling place, like a
(31:45):
little tent outside of our building here that is a reminder
of our wilderness dwelling when we were kind of wandering in the
wilderness for 40 years and remembers that God provided for
us and gave us everything that we need, manna and shelter and
water, all of these things. And it happens in the seventh
(32:07):
month on the Jewish calendar of Tishri after the High Holidays,
which just happened days earlier, Rosh Hashanah and Yom
Kippur, the feast of Trumpets inthe Day of Atonement.
And what's really kind of cool about this to understand from a
Christian perspective is these aren't just Jewish holidays that
might have been celebrated by Jesus, but they actually like
(32:27):
speak about his plan of salvation.
It's through the the festivals that he actually lived his
ministry and fulfilled all of his word.
So there are these spring festivals that happened that are
all connected to Passover that are that's you know, typically
it's around Easter, Passover andEaster connected and those were
(32:51):
all fulfilled during Jesus earthly ministry.
But this ultimate significance and meaning of the fall feasts,
the ones that I just mentioned, those are pointing forward to
Jesus second coming, his return.So the Feast of Tabernacles,
which we're in the midst of right now, is ultimately about
God's dwelling place. In John chapter 1 when it said
(33:14):
the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
The Word is Tabernacle. Tabernacle.
So he's he's in our our dwellingplace.
He took on flesh. He's like God Incarnate,
dwelling within this like temporary shelter of this human
body, which is now ultimately eternal.
But in Revelation chapter 21, itsays now the dwelling of God is
(33:38):
with man. So like there's this ultimate
consummation of the Feast of Tabernacles when God will
ultimately Tabernacle with his people and it's kind of final
way of New Jerusalem. So it's an it's an anticipation.
And I think we do ourselves a bit of a disservice to like not
understand that. I'm not saying people need to
(34:00):
celebrate it necessarily. I think there's like a weird
conversation you can have about cultural appropriation when it
comes to that. But the the Jewish festivals are
not just simply things that are so admired in Jewish tradition
that we can't understand them. They're biblical feasts that
point to God's kind of propheticcalendar of what he's doing in
(34:22):
the world. Absolutely.
A lot of Jesus as I am statements came during some of
those and, you know, really kindof seeing his fulfillment,
especially like you said, in some of those spring events.
I love the way you just described that because it's it's
easy to think about. OK, yeah, these these festivals,
these feasts, there's just a wayof looking back at the history
and everything. But it's not only looking back,
(34:43):
but it's looking ahead at the same time, looking at, you know,
it at that. There's there's something to be
said. That's the reason we have the
Old Testament, you know, is to be able to realize the big story
of God. You know, the story of God
doesn't start with Jesus. The story of God has fulfilled
in Jesus. That's right.
And and being able to look back at God's people because that's
what we're talking about here, right?
God's chosen people, you know, the ancient Jewish culture and
(35:07):
yeah, those, those were moments that God ordained so that they
would remember. So there is value in
remembering, but there's also this forward-looking approach to
looking for Jesus to be the ultimate fulfillment in them.
And to me that's rich. To me, that's a deeper
understanding of who Jesus is. Then maybe we get if we don't
understand that. And so like, OK, so you, you
(35:28):
celebrate Shabbat, Shabbat. Yeah, Shabbat on Friday, Friday
night, Friday. Evening and my My wife will make
a challah, which is a traditional like braided bread
loaf and within our ministry here.
So like Jews for Jesus ministry looks different all around the
world. We kind of contextualize what we
do depending on the community we're speaking to Our ministry
(35:51):
here in LA is happens right across the street from UCLA
campus and we have a coffee art and community space called
upside down that we built a few years ago and it's a great
introduction to all of this stuff and somebody doesn't
understand how can Jewish peoplebelieve in Jesus And like,
what's that all about to have that conversation over a cup of
(36:12):
coffee in kind of like a chill laid back space.
Way better as like a first step than like, let's say, you know,
like an online conversation withlike a troll or like, you know,
some kind of like heated St. debate.
It's a really great place to get.
So like here in our Cafe space, we do events pretty frequently,
(36:34):
and just last week we did a calibrating workshop.
So we actually tell people how to make the bread that you eat
for Shabbat. And within that we'll kind of
like leave some of our traditions and prayers and stuff
and instructing people and inviting people to ask us
questions. So it's a lot of fun.
Yeah, yeah. Now, do you guys attend church
(36:55):
on Sundays? Like, yeah.
And so that's the, you know, of course, the celebration day,
that's the resurrection day. And, you know, you join with
other, other believers. And so, you know, I, I think
that's important for us to understand is that you, you hold
the same beliefs, but you're also practicing some of the
things from your culture, but it's not taking away from your
understanding of God. Or Jesus, it's.
(37:17):
Enhancing it. Yeah, exactly.
And there there's a wide spectrum of practice within
Jewish believers in Jesus. Like I said, some prefer to call
themselves Messianic Jews, and they'll have their primary
worship service on a Saturday morning, have a Shabbat service,
read from the Torah just like you would in the synagogue, but
explain how Jesus fulfills all of that and continue to have
(37:41):
prayers from a Jewish prayer book, which a Jewish prayer book
is all, you know, liturgy from the Bible.
It's Psalms. It's, you know, the prophets and
all that kind of stuff. So there's richness in that as
well. But yeah, for my family, I
actually serve as an elder at mylocal church here on the West
side of LA. It's called Collective Church
and there's a handful of Jewish followers of Jesus who are a
(38:05):
part of our community, but we'rea multicultural, multiethnic,
like all different ages, etcetera.
Very cool. And so you're you're worshipping
with other non Jewish Christians, right?
Yes, that's beautiful. I love that.
I think it's a picture of the Kingdom, man.
I do too. Like every tribe, tongue in
nation. That's where we're going.
Yeah, a lot of times we tend to segregate ourselves in the
(38:27):
church, and that's a different conversation for a different day
maybe, but but I love that it's just a mix.
It's a multicultural, multiethnic, that's what.
That's what heaven's going to be.
That's right. And that's what that's what
heaven on earth is going to be when it comes back.
And so when we think about what does it look like to minister to
someone, to witness to someone, fill in the blank whatever word
(38:48):
you want to use there, evangelize to someone who is
Jewish, What sort of language might you use to someone who is
so entrenched in their ancient heritage and customs to get them
to see, OK, well, maybe there's something to this Jesus guy.
Yeah, so glad you asked that. So the day we're recording this
(39:09):
is October 7th, so two years agomarks that it's his anniversary
of this like, terrible attack onIsrael, which is not just about,
you know, some kind of politicalfeud in the Middle East.
It affected the Jewish communityaround the world and LED to like
an increase in anti-Semitism everywhere.
(39:29):
So Jewish people are feeling theimpact of that and are feeling
scared and uncertain and not sure who to trust.
So as Gentile Christians, you actually have probably a more
important opportunity than ever before to communicate a sense of
(39:52):
love and support and cultivate trust with Jewish folks that you
know. There has never been a better
time that I've been alive. That a Christian who is not
Jewish can have a positive impact on a Jewish person
beginning to open up to the possibility of understanding
(40:13):
Jesus and trusting him. Because the first layer that
needs to be eroded between a Jewish person that won't really
anyone, but specifically for theJewish community and faith in
Jesus is trusting a Christian. And there's so many reasons
throughout history that Jewish people have been given to not
trust Christians. Nowadays it wouldn't necessarily
(40:37):
be like, oh, this Christian wants to do me harm.
But you know, if I get to know this Christian, you know,
they're just going to shove Jesus down my throat the next
time I had a get together with them.
So demonstrating A genuine care and interest in Jewish people
just purely from a place of saying I stand against
(40:59):
anti-Semitism, I want to supportyou.
I believe, you know, like the Bible tells me like that you're
loved by God just by virtue of who you are.
He set his affection on the Jewish people.
Doesn't mean they they're betterthan anyone else.
Doesn't mean like they're, you know, super special and super
(41:22):
powers or whatever, but it's, itwas God's choice, you know, and
for that reason, I will stand against hatred and I'll stand
with you. That's a powerful thing.
Yeah, mutual understanding goes a long ways with any, with
anybody really. And what I'm hearing is it's not
that different than anybody else.
You got to find common ground. You do, you got to say I, you
(41:43):
know, drop the agenda. You know, if we're loving
someone with the with an agenda,then that's not really loving
them. That's right.
And, and I like, I often say to people like, so we, we actually
have been encouraging Christiansto stand against anti-Semitism.
So if there's a way that you canstand visibly and vocally in
(42:04):
your community, I would encourage you to do it.
And we encourage, you know, if aJewish person were to approach
you and say, Hey, you're just doing this to like share Jesus
with me, aren't you? To respond saying like, do I
believe that Jesus is the ultimate hope for the world and
can bring you love and joy and truth?
(42:25):
Absolutely. But today I'm just here to
support you. That's like so important because
a lot of for a lot of Christianswho are zealous to share the
gospel, they would think that like settling and falling short
of declaring the truth of the gospel to anyone is compromise.
(42:46):
And I'm here to say, no, it's not.
You are, you're working a long game and God is a patient God.
And he is. He's after people.
And there's nothing that you're going to do that it's going to
detract from that. Man, that's awesome.
Now you'd mentioned, and maybe we can kind of close this way.
You'd mentioned that two years ago was that attack on Israel.
(43:08):
Israel has been in the news an awful lot over the last several
months, years, you know, and, and it feels like Israel's
always in the news. There's an intense battle going
on right now and I've had I've had people ask me why.
Why do we as Christians, what, why is it that we're so
involved? Why isn't that we care?
(43:30):
Why is it that it's important tous as Christians?
What happens in Israel for you Jews, for Jesus, or just you,
Isaac? How would you answer that
question for a sincere believer?Curious as to what's so
important about that land of Israel and what happens over
there today. Yeah, I would say it's really
(43:50):
important to know what we're talking about.
We're talking about Israel when you say Israel, that you're not
equivocating the modern state ofIsrael with the biblical Israel,
that you're not kind of assigning any kind of like
spiritual significance to the government of Israel, that
(44:13):
you're not deifying the Prime Minister of Israel.
There's a lot of misunderstanding amongst well
meaning Christian folks who say,you know, we're supposed to
support Israel. Yeah, I stand with Israel.
Yeah, It's like, OK, why do you know what that means to not just
kind of say it's my duty as a asan evangelical Christian to do
(44:36):
that, to not make it about politics?
Yeah, that's a big one. It's so important.
So I would say make a distinction between the
historical importance of the land, the political entity and
the people and know that absolutely the land is
significant and know that God isat work in the land of Israel.
(45:02):
But that when it comes to supporting Israel, the best way
that you can support Israel is with the gospel does behoove a
Christian to get mired and enmeshed in Middle Eastern
politics as an important like tenet of our faith?
(45:23):
The best thing that we can do asfollowers of Jesus to support
Israel is to ensure that the people there have access to hear
about the Messiah. And that will keep you from a
lot of the ways that people tendto capitulate towards political
(45:43):
talking points and rhetoric whenit comes to like preferring
Israelis over Palestinians. That's not God, like that's not
his heart, not at all. Reconciliation is the closest
thing to the heart of God. So when an Israeli and a
(46:04):
Palestinian can say to one another, I love you in the name
of Jesus, then the world will see the reconciling power of the
gospel. And so that's what we pray for.
It's happening. It's not meeting, it's not in
the headlines that it's harder more than ever because of the
current conflict there. And there is challenge.
(46:26):
There is like enmity that happens.
But I know that there are, and I've and I've met in Israel,
Israeli believers, Palestinian believers, love one another,
fellowship together. And that's, that should really
be where our focus is, where ourprayers are going, is to see
those kinds of things happen, not to like make some kind of
(46:51):
pronouncement about what you seein the headlines equaling God's
favor or disfavor over certain groups of people.
Yeah, that's so powerful. And what we're saying here is
this, If you want to be like Christ, if you want to let Jesus
come out in your life, then whatthat looks like is seeing people
(47:12):
for how Jesus sees them as a soul worth dying for, as a soul
worth reaching, as a soul worth loving, regardless of where they
live, regardless of where they come from, regardless of their
culture, regardless of their current religious system.
(47:34):
I think if we can learn to see like Jesus, that would fix a lot
of our problems. What a powerful way to say
support Israel. The best way we can support
Israel is with the gospel. Powerful.
And that answers my question of how do we pray for Israel?
And I think that's right in linea man, Isaac, this has been fun.
(47:55):
We may have to do the a second round of this.
Ask so many questions. Be happy to but.
You're doing fantastic work where God's called you to.
Can you tell us about how we canget involved with the mission
and purpose of Jews for Jesus and come alongside?
Come alongside you guys and support you.
Absolutely, We are inviting Christians to do a few different
(48:17):
things to support. We have a page on our website
that's just choose for jesus.orgback slash get involved.
And the primary ways to do that are prayer.
We send, if you're a prayer warrior, if you love praying for
some of the things that we've been talking about, there's kind
of a monthly prayer connect thatone of our staff is holding that
(48:40):
kind of gives you a more in depth look at what our what our
ministry is doing. And we send out prayer
reminders. So you could just sign up there.
There's also this resource that we put together called the Jews
for Jesus Classroom. And that is for people who are
interested in actually developing their witness to the
Jewish community and learning more about how to share the
(49:02):
gospel winsomely with the Jewishcommunity.
And it's an absolutely free resource that you just sign up
for. That's a three course video
series with multiple videos per course and couple like talking
points and like questions with each session.
(49:23):
And you can walk through it in like a few days.
And it's a great introductory resource for how to share the
gospel with Jewish people. So if you're in a community
where you have Jewish friends, neighbors, coworkers, whatever,
I would implore you to check that out and we'd love to
(49:43):
connect with you and be able to help you and your witness as
well. That's awesome.
I'll put those links in the shownotes as well.
But Isaac, man, you're a blessing.
I appreciate you being here withus, explaining to us how the
same God that saved your family,that came into your family and
(50:05):
changed the trajectory in just afew generations ago is the same
God is calling and pursuing all people today.
To him, to my listeners out there that are hearing this, I
encourage you to check out the resources we're going to list to
check out the work Isaac's doing.
And what we're talking about here is just sharing Jesus with
those around you and in this particular context today with
(50:30):
the Jewish culture. But you know what?
If you really believe what you say you believe, you'll share
the truth of Jesus with everyonearound you, regardless of where
they come from. So, Isaac, thank you my friend.
Thank you, Chad. We may plan to do this again
sometime soon, but bless you, bless your work, and look
forward to joining you again soon.
Thanks man, God bless you as well.
(50:52):
Thank you for listening to the Rev RX Podcast.
We hope you enjoyed what you heard today and if so, we'd love
it if you would hit that subscribe button so that you'll
never miss a new episode from us.
Also, feel free to leave us reviews and comments as we'd
love to hear from you. Be blessed and be the very best
you.
Hey, friends, and welcome back to the Rev RX podcast.
I'm Chad Potts, and I'm your host.
Today we're going to have a conversation that sits at the
very heart of the gospel. My guest today is Isaac Richter.
Isaac leads the Los Angeles branch of Jews for Jesus, a
ministry that's been around for over 50 years with a singular
focus, their laser focus on relentlessly pursuing God's plan
(00:36):
for the Jewish people for salvation of the Jews.
You see, Isaac's story was changed in one generation
because one believer was bold enough, a Christian believer was
bold enough to share Jesus with his family.
And years later, standing at theWestern Wall, Isaac received his
call to the Jewish people. He heard these 3 words on his
(00:59):
heart. They don't know.
And so he spent his life making sure that the people of his very
heritage, Jewish people all overthis world, that they know about
the good news of Jesus. If you've ever wondered how
Jewish and Jesus fit together, If you've ever wondered how to
love your Jewish neighbors with wisdom and courage in a tense
(01:20):
cultural moment such as this, ifyou ever wondered why it's
important to us as Christians today in America to understand
or to empathize or to support Israel, then you're in the right
place. We're going to talk about
identity. We're going to talk about how
biblical feasts that are now celebrated and commemorated by
(01:43):
Jews actually point straight to Jesus and why the best way to
support Israel today is not to take some big political stand,
but to pray for their salvation,for them to trust in the hope of
the gospel. Israelis and Palestinians alike,
don't get lost into politics, guys.
(02:04):
Grab a seat, open your heart andlet's go.
I introduce you to my new friendIsaac.
I thank you so much for being here on the Rev RX Podcast.
What a privilege it is to have you here on the show.
Yeah, Thanks so much, Chad. It's a privilege to be here.
I'm honored to be a guest here, man.
Yeah, well, you're a part of an organization, a greater
(02:26):
organization called Jews for Jesus, and I want to get into
that in a second. Sure.
Before we do that, though, man, I'd love for you to just unpack
your story. I have chills from the story you
told me a minute ago about how your family's story changed in
one generation and the impact that God can have on that.
So. So man, tell us who Isaac is.
How did you get here? How did you become the man
(02:47):
sitting in the studio today hereon the Rev RX Podcast?
Yeah, thanks, man. It's a privilege to unpack that
a little bit. I'm like, I'm just a Jewish kid
from San Francisco, and I servedhere with Jews for Jesus in Los
Angeles. I lead our Los Angeles branch,
and I moved here pretty much right after high school.
(03:08):
And my story cannot be told without telling my family's
story, which is something that Ithink growing up like, it
frustrated me because my dad's in ministry, his dad's in
ministry, his father in And it'sjust like, you know, the joke
(03:33):
within the Jewish community is like when you grow up, you can
be a doctor, a lawyer or a failure.
And like within my family, it was totally different because
everyone was in ministry, like pastors, evangelists, etcetera.
And that's because several generations ago, back in
Ukraine, there was this like Christian businessman praying
(03:54):
for a witness to the Jewish people, like desiring to reach
Jewish people with the gospel. And he had an apprentice who is
from the Jewish community. He came to him and he ended up
leading him to faith in Jesus. And that was my great, great
grandmother's first husband who had passed away.
She remarried to my great, greatgrandfather.
(04:15):
But basically through that one encounter changed the course of
my family's history. And every generation since then,
we've actually been involved in ministry to our own people.
Well, maintaining our heritage as Jewish followers of Jesus,
that distinctive of people who, you know, are part of what Paul
(04:36):
calls the remnant of Israel, people who are following Jesus
unapologetically as Jews. Not kind of like capitulating to
just say, oh, it's like maybe a cultural part of MyHeritage that
used to be important, but now I'm just going to kind of like
get lost within this like assimilation process within the
(04:58):
church, which I love the church,but preserving cultural
distinctions are important. And I think that's actually a
unique calling that God has given to Jewish followers of
Jesus. So that's one part of it I have
to kind of like explain, but formyself growing up in San
Francisco, public school education all the way, really
(05:19):
difficult to kind of stand up for faith in many way without
looking very weird and let alonealso like claiming Jewish
identity and faith in Jesus kind.
Of the double whammy there. One year and Francisca like
tightrope of like identity and I'm a millennial.
(05:42):
I was born in late 80s like smack dab in the middle of that
generation. Identity is like such a huge
became such a huge thing in my like coming of age.
And so it was much easier to just kind of like stuff that
down and pretend like it wasn't that important to me and just
kind of fit in. And so I resonate a lot with
(06:04):
like in the book of James, he calls a double minded man this,
this idea of like believing one thing and doing another thing.
That was very true of me, as it is a lot of kids who grew up
within the faith and kind of hadto come to a point, really when
(06:27):
I was 19, I've moved out of the house.
I was here in Los Angeles. I was going to a new church plan
and kind of just wanted to see if I actually was going to stick
with it. Honestly.
Like I had seen God do some pretty great things in my life,
so I couldn't deny who he was and the truth of the gospel.
(06:51):
I'd seen God do amazing things, but didn't know if I was going
to actually, like, take the plunge and live for him as an
adult, as a young adult. And then just a simple sermon.
It was a sermon on Peter's denial of Jesus, where the
pastor kind of let you trace, like, how many steps away from
(07:12):
Jesus have you really taken in your life?
And I was like, I'm not that far, am I?
And then I realized, oh, OK, I'mjust, I'm living my own way.
There is a definitive moment. And it was that summer actually
after that church service where I really, I think first
experienced like and understood the grace of God that I traveled
(07:34):
to Israel for the first time andor not, sorry, not the first
time, first time as an adult. I had traveled for like my bar
mitzvah and a couple other times, but first time as an
adult and I went with this program that Jews for Jesus has.
And we were traveling around thecountry.
We came to the Western Wall in Jerusalem, which is like kind of
(07:57):
the holiest site in Judaism. And I like went up to the wall
and we put like prayers on theselittle papers and like place
them in the cracks of the wall to kind of like pray for peace
of Jerusalem and all these things.
I'm standing there and to my right and to my left are these
ultra Orthodox Jewish men davening, which is like a prayer
(08:20):
practice for you, like kind of go like this back and forth.
And I was just like overwhelmed with emotion and I heard God
whisper just three words they don't know.
And I just like it wrecked me. So at the time, I didn't
recognize that as a like a direct call to ministry, but in
(08:42):
retrospect and in processing andin prayer with friends and
stuff, it was very clear, like that's what that was.
And so I haven't really looked back from that moment.
Love it, man. I've got chills all over
listening to that story and man,isn't that?
Isn't that all of ours call? They don't know, you know, and,
(09:03):
and looking around this world atthe state of our country right
now and, and feeling that sense that God's whispering to us,
they don't Who's going to tell them?
Yeah, that's Romans 10. Like how will they know?
Unless like someone goes and preaches, you know?
Absolutely. And what a what a great call of
ministry into ministry that thatwas.
So you're doing you're, you're now with Jesus for Jesus.
(09:25):
And I want to, I want to unpack a little bit though, before we
get into that, because your story's so relatable.
You know, I, I think I grew up in the Bible Belt, right?
But Even so, you know, it's almost like it's, it's more
unpopular not to go to church over here than it is to have
faith. But real authentic faith is
(09:45):
different. And, you know, living out,
living out the fruit of the spirit, the living out
Christlikeness that looks radical everywhere and that
looks radical in every generation and in every part of
this world. There's, there's always this
temptation. And, and I told you, I pastor
young adults. And so that's kind of that
college and young family age. And that's where, you know, we
(10:06):
leave the comforts of our home and then we have to kind of
believe what we believe because we believe it now and not just
because it's what mom and dad believe, or that's what I was
told to believe. And, and there becomes this real
sense of, you know, I, I feel like I need to suppress that to
fit in. And, and that's what you
experience. And that's really powerful
because so many of us, I think can relate to that.
(10:27):
There's this temptation to fit in.
But you know, I want to kind of edge that by saying, oh, if
you're fitting in this world, that's not the goal here.
And and you sensed that, didn't you?
You know, you had that double minded conviction of sorts.
I believe one thing, but I'll look a different way on the
outside. And so, you know, I wanted to
say that to our listeners. We've all been there.
We get that. No one wants to look different.
(10:48):
No one wants to to be eccentric or to or to stand out in a
crowd. But you know, we kind of have to
if we're going to be doing this Christianity thing true
authentic walk with God looks radical.
And then as you went through youwent and I want so bad to go to
Israel. I'm not sure now, you know,
(11:08):
maybe we will speak to this in aminute.
I don't know if now's a great time, but, and it may be fine,
but I feel like there's just something powerful about walking
in the in the world where her Bible was written.
And and I I'm, yeah, I I really admire that you getting to the
wall and God putting that call in your life right there.
(11:33):
I mean, what a better place for that, right?
Yeah, and I almost like cringe telling the story to be honest
because it's such a stereotype. It is.
It's like, of course it's going to happen there, right?
But it is, it is powerful. Like I love to encourage people
to visit and to like, because itdoes help take the Bible
(11:59):
seriously when you sit there andgo like, oh, this happened right
there. It's kind of like a very for
believers especially. I think apologetics are more
important for people who are believers to reinforce faith
than it is for people who are not believers yet.
Yeah, I agree with that. And it's a powerful apologetic
(12:20):
to just say like, this is not a fairy tale.
This is real. But I, I will also be the first
to discourage Christians when they go from treating it like
Bible Disneyland because it's a,it's a senior sincere temptation
to just kind of like, I'm going to buy the T-shirt.
(12:40):
I'm going to take this the picture.
I'm going to like do all the things and like get the
anointing oils and all the the junk for the people to.
Bring back the selfie next to it, yeah.
Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a bucket
list item for me and I, and I really hope I can make that
happen soon, but praying about it.
Lord's going to open that door when it's time.
(13:02):
That's right. But but transitioning over.
So Jews for Jesus, you mentionedto me offline before we started,
there's a single minded theme, the single minded purpose.
Tell us about the organization that you're involved with.
Tell us about the goal, the mission, the purpose.
And I love it so much, but I'm going to let you say it.
(13:23):
Yeah, we're, we're over 50 yearsold as an organization now,
started in 1973. And our mission is that we
relentlessly pursue God's plan for the salvation of the Jewish
people. And that's a mission that we can
pursue until Jesus comes back, because that's, that's part of
(13:44):
his plan. And we know that it's, it's
something that really defines inour core value, top core value
is passion for the lost. What we do is reach Jewish
people with the gospel because we are Jewish people who've been
transformed by the gospel. And all of our frontline
ministry staff are either Jewishthemselves or they're married to
(14:09):
a Jewish person and a Jewish family.
And we make an impact for the Kingdom of God amongst our
Jewish people. So we because of that, you know,
because of the time that we're in right now, we get invited to
talk about all sorts of like different conversations about
(14:30):
the Middle East and Israel and things that verge on political.
But what we love to say is that we're a we're A1 issue ministry
in that sense. All we really care about is that
our Jewish people get the chanceto meet the Messiah for
themselves. Awesome and I'm a big believer
in the things that you've been delivered from you are then
(14:51):
called to deliver others who arein the same boat and who better
to reach Jews for Jesus then guys like yourself?
And you know, you're thinking back to that family history and
and where that just changed the trajectory of your entire
family. And so you know, to those
listeners that may not be maybe as in tune with what's going on
here. I want to kind of keep this at a
(15:11):
one-on-one level. And so when we think about, all
right, you're, you're seeking and attempting to bring Jesus to
the Jews, that may sound weird on surface level, right?
Because you also mentioned that you're, you know, we're seeking
the lost here. So help us think about that for
those that may not be all that familiar with Bible, Bible, you
(15:32):
know, wasn't Jesus a Jew, that kind of thing.
So calling people who are practicing Orthodox Jews,
Judaism, calling those lost, help us think through that.
Sure. Yeah.
I mean, when you think about Jewish people believing in
(15:53):
Jesus, it sounds some to some, like I'm saying vegans for bacon
or something like that, right? Like because you don't put those
things in the same sentence normally.
But like you said, I mean, Jesusis Jewish.
All of his disciples were Jewish.
And like we like to say, you know, all of the writers of the
New Testament were Jewish exceptfor Luke, but he was a doctor,
(16:13):
so who knows, maybe he was Jewish too, right?
So there are a lot of Jewish doctors.
But yeah, like when it came to salvation history and what we
see happening within the gospel story within the book of Acts
and afterwards is that there waslarge scale rejection of the
gospel amongst my Jewish people,specifically within the rabbinic
(16:33):
authorities after the destruction of the Second
Temple. But in Acts, we see there's a
whole bunch of religious Jewish people who were followers of
Jesus. And Paul in the book of Romans
calls Jewish believers in Jesus a remnant.
So we know automatically right there it's going to be a smaller
(16:54):
percentage of the Jewish community that believes.
That's his whole argument in Romans 9:10 and 11:00, that
there's this, you know, God has not failed in his plan of
salvation. His promises are not null and
void just because a majority of Jewish people don't believe in
(17:16):
Jesus, and what Paul demonstrates is that that's
always been the case. Yeah, yeah.
Is the way that it's the way that it is, and that's not a
surprise. Not at all.
It's even, it's part of his plan.
And so when it comes to Judaism,a lot of Christians see, you
know, Judaism, and they'll say, OK, they're reading the Old
(17:37):
Testament. What's What's the?
Problem with that, you know, isn't that just like
Christianity minus Jesus? Yeah, it's like pre
Christianity. Yeah.
And what we kind of have to unpack for a lot of people is
like, no, Judaism is not like Old Testament only.
And like it's not Christianity minus Jesus.
(17:59):
It's if you did add Jesus to Judaism, you don't get like
Christianity. You get something totally
different. That said there there are such
things called Messianic Jews, which I would consider myself
one, and there's, there are Jewish manners of worshipping
Jesus. So if you hear Messianic
(18:19):
Judaism, it's kind of a loaded term we can unpack and, and
maybe another time, I don't know.
But when it comes to the Jewish community, there's, there is the
Torah that's like the main document.
And then you have the Tanakh, which is the Torah, the
(18:39):
prophets, and the writings. That's what we consider the Old
Testament, although in the Jewish Bible it's written in
different order. But what most Jewish people read
is not the Old Testament in its totality.
It's commentary on the Torah written by rabbis much later
than the Torah, and so that the entry point for engaging with
(19:04):
what we consider to be God's Word is actually already through
a layer of commentaries and traditions and things that
within Judaism they believe has to mediate our interaction with
God's Word. Sure.
And so then the next question I have is, is very similar to that
and it's for someone practicing Orthodox Judaism.
(19:29):
How did they say Jesus? What's their view of Jesus?
Totally depends. There's been a major effort to
reclaim Jesus as one of us. He was a good Jewish boy.
He was maybe even a great teacher, great rabbi.
But then his followers turned him into something that he's
(19:51):
not. So basically and I get gets like
Jewish people around having to say negative things about Jesus
potentially. But it's the fault of Christians
or, you know, his followers thatturned him into what they would
call a false Messiah. But within the Jewish community,
(20:13):
especially the ultra Orthodox Jewish community, and we can get
into those distinctions if you'dlike.
They wouldn't even say his name.It would be.
We don't talk about that. Got you off limits.
And so so I think that's the distinction, right, Is what do
you do with Jesus? You kind of have to wrestle with
that. That's, that's the, that's the
hey, isn't that the worldwide dilemma?
(20:33):
Yeah. The human dilemma What do we do
with Jesus? Matthew 16 Who do you say that I
am? Exactly the question.
It is. We all have to answer that.
And depending on how you answer that, that that depends on where
you fall. But for those practicing
Orthodox Judaism, Jesus is not the Messiah, Jesus is not God,
(20:53):
He's not the second member of the Trinity.
And so that changes everything. You know, that's not just a
Christianity minus Christ. I mean, you take away Christ.
It's not Christianity, but you know, it's, it's not that
simple, is it? It's really a an issue to where,
you know, they're they're still,correct me if I'm wrong, kind of
waiting on a Messiah to come. Is that?
Yeah, again, it would depend on your Jewish background and what
(21:16):
kind of sect of religion you kind of espouse, but.
Maybe over simplistic then, yeah?
For the majority I would say of like devout religious orthodox
Jews, then they would say yes, the Messiah is yet to come.
Sure. There's a lot of nuance within
that. There's a whole sect, actually
(21:37):
the largest sect of ultra Orthodox Judaism called Chabad,
which you would see if you're ina major city and you're in
within a Jewish community or at a university.
They're everywhere there. There's only like 1 sect of
Judaism that is like outreach oriented trying to get other
people to practice Judaism. And it's those guys, gotcha.
(21:58):
You'll see them at the mall trying to get Jewish people to
rap what's called feeling, whichare like these straps that have
prayers written on them and it'sa way that they pray.
But those, there's a percentage of those folks that actually
believe that their chief rabbi, Menachem Shearson, was the
Messiah and he was a rabbi who. Moved.
(22:19):
To New York and like 70s and or moved earlier, but was primarily
in ministry in New York in the 70s and he was kind of a very
wise man and like learned and kind of a sage and they there
are some that think that he's the Messiah and that he's coming
back. Well, very interesting and you
(22:43):
know, it, it, it kind of comes down to this.
Do you believe again, who do yousay I am that Jesus is the way,
the truth of life, that there isone way to the Father and it is
Jesus. And that's kind of what that's
where it comes down to now. Your family was reached with the
gospel and ever since then againyour trajectory has changed and
you were raised as a How would you identify yourself a
(23:05):
Christian Jew and. It depends on like who you talk
to, like their comfort level with using the term Christian.
I have no problem calling myselfa Jewish Christian.
I usually like to make sure thatthe person I'm talking to knows
what Christian means because terms, words are so important.
You know, God created the world with words and so use, use the
(23:27):
right ones. So when I, when I talk about,
yeah, what do you even know whatChristian means?
Christ is the Greek kind of transliteration of Christos.
Christos was the Greek translation of Mashiach, which
means Messiah. So you're a person of the
Messiah. I have no problem identifying
myself that way. And, you know, and now you're
(23:50):
perpetuating the gospel as we all should do and reaching the
lost. And, and, and I love that
because the context that you're in is exactly where you're
called to. And, and I want to talk about
this a little bit too, because I'm fascinated by this idea that
(24:10):
that you're kind of in the middle of both sides.
And, you know, it's almost like Christians don't, I'm sure maybe
that there's some Christians that don't really quote UN quote
approve of what you're doing. I'm sure that there's some Jews
that don't quote UN quote approve of what you're doing.
So you kind of find yourself in the middle a little bit, right,
like with as an individual, but then also as Jews for Jesus.
(24:30):
Talk to us about that a little bit.
Unpack that situation to where you feel like you're, you know,
both sides really don't like what I'm doing, but yet I'm
doing what I feel that God's called me to do.
And, and where you find yourselfthere.
Sure. Yeah.
And it's not really like something on we're on a
day-to-day basis. I'm like everyone hates me but
(24:51):
thankfully. But yeah depending.
On that right. No, depending on who I'm talking
to, they'll have kind of an incredulous like look on their
face when I mentioned, Oh yeah, I work with Jews for Jesus.
I love it because it gets into conversate.
I hate small talk, personally. So getting into the meat of like
(25:11):
what life and truth and existence are really about
within like a few seconds is pretty cool.
And so, yeah, but for for Jewishpeople to say that I'm with Jews
for Jesus and that I'm Jewish follower of Jesus, like it can
yield all sorts of reactions. Sure.
(25:33):
I can attest to that because I've told a couple people, hey,
I'm interviewing this guy with Jesus for Jesus, so excited
about it. And they're like, what?
Yeah, No, no, no, no, no. Just just wait.
Just wait. Yeah, it's all good stuff.
It's like, you know, for for Jewish folks, it's kind of like,
well, that's a contradiction. That's impossible for a lot of
Jewish people. Once you believe in Jesus,
(25:54):
you're no longer Jewish. If you've been baptized, that
like kind of have to turn in your Jewish card.
And it's kind of the funniest thing because you can be Jewish
and do just about any other spiritual practice under the
sun. Believe whatever you want to
believe, including that there's no God whatsoever and that
(26:15):
Judaism and Jewish people is just this kind of ancient myth
and you're still Jewish, but themoment you place your faith in
Jesus, you're one of them now. Game changer.
And to point out the inconsistencies within that is
like some of my life's work and what I enjoy the most.
And so I love being able to havethose conversations.
(26:35):
But then, yeah, within, within the church as well.
It can be a lightning rod for people because like you were
saying, like, aren't the Jewish people kind of like good with
God? Like, don't they have their own
covenants? Like, why?
Why are you trying to, like, stir the pot there?
Like after so many years of church history where the Jewish
people have been persecuted and the Crusades and the Spanish
(26:57):
Inquisition and stuff, can't we just like, leave the Jewish
people alone and let them do their own thing?
And it's kind of like that's probably one of the least loving
things you could possibly imagine.
Like if you believe that ultimate truth, hope, love,
fulfillment, meaning, joy, purpose, and eternity are found
(27:19):
in knowing Jesus. And you want to keep that from
Jewish people because of history, because of discomfort,
because of whatever you name it.That is a lack of love
ultimately. And we don't think of it that
way. And I wouldn't say people are
actively like trying to do that when they say I'll just leave
them alone, whatever. But that's ultimately what it is
(27:42):
because the most loving thing you can do as a believer in
Jesus is to share Jesus. Winsome Lee convictingly, like
sensitively with a person. And that's that's so important
and being able to kind of shift your perspective of, you know,
if they're, if they're not believing in Jesus, then they're
(28:03):
lost. Doesn't matter how how old their
religious structure is, doesn't matter kind of what's happened
through the ages, you know. Yeah.
Just leave them. Leaving them alone is the worst
thing you could do, you know, And we face a lot of that just
in general with, you know, the great, the Great Commission,
right, You know, go and make disciples.
Well, a lot of times we're scared to do that all.
I don't want to stir the pot, like you said.
(28:26):
I don't. I don't want to disrupt people.
We live in a society which kind of tells us we just need to live
and let be. You do you.
I do me will agree to disagree, but you're right.
If you kind of come to this crisis of belief to where if you
really believe what you say you believe and you really believe
that there is one way truth in life, one way to the father,
(28:48):
then you're kind of confronted with this.
Well, don't don't you want everyone to know that?
And and that's no different. It's scary.
Like, hey, I'm not going to pretend like just because
vocationally I do this and tell people about Jesus that it's
become easier. It's it's absolutely terrifying
to put yourself out there like and just say, yeah, I believe
(29:12):
there's ultimate truth. I believe this is the most
important thing you can know. And I think that it's worth me
being super discomforted right now and like having this awkward
conversation with you. There's like that classic
interview right, with the Penn Jillette about like getting
pushed out of the way of a truckor something like that.
And he said like, how, how like much do you have to hate me to
(29:33):
not push me out of the way of a truck if the truck's like
bearing down on me? It's like that's he is an
atheist. Like he doesn't believe in these
at all. But like he sees the importance
of having a conviction when it comes to ultimate things, when
it comes to eternal life, Like you got to do something about.
It yeah. And that's a that's a challenge
to all of us, to everyone listening.
(29:56):
So when it comes to Christians looking at the work you're
doing, I think maybe this takes us to where you can describe for
us a little bit about what it looks like on a, you know, on a
daily basis to to be a Jew for Jesus, so to speak.
And what does that look like in your daily life?
And how does that differ from how I'm going to say us
Gentiles, those who aren't in the Jewish faith, who, who don't
(30:18):
come from that custom and don't come from that background, how
is that different? Because I think a lot of times
we get our belief system that, OK, well, if you're, you were a
Jew now, you're a Christian now,you just give all that up from
some of Paul's words that, you know, weren't necessarily meant
(30:38):
to be taken the way that we takethem sometimes.
Can you elaborate on that a little bit?
Just walk us through your your walk with God, if you will.
Yeah, sure. There's the personal practice
things that I think is up to, honestly, every person's
conviction and their conscience and how God leads them.
And within my family, we celebrate Shabbat on Friday
(30:59):
night and we observe that. And we don't do it in a way that
a lot of the Jewish community would, where you like, turn off
all the lights and can't do any work and that kind of stuff.
But that's a it's important rhythm for us to stay connected
to the Jewish community and really understand that God gave
us this weekly rhythm of a day of rest for a reason.
(31:22):
And every time a society's triedto do away with that, it's been
detrimental for what it means tobe human.
So there's that part of things, but I mean, we're here talking
actually at the beginning of theFeast of Sukkot, which is the
Feast of Tabernacles. So just last night, my team and
I built a sukkah, which is a temporary dwelling place, like a
(31:45):
little tent outside of our building here that is a reminder
of our wilderness dwelling when we were kind of wandering in the
wilderness for 40 years and remembers that God provided for
us and gave us everything that we need, manna and shelter and
water, all of these things. And it happens in the seventh
(32:07):
month on the Jewish calendar of Tishri after the High Holidays,
which just happened days earlier, Rosh Hashanah and Yom
Kippur, the feast of Trumpets inthe Day of Atonement.
And what's really kind of cool about this to understand from a
Christian perspective is these aren't just Jewish holidays that
might have been celebrated by Jesus, but they actually like
(32:27):
speak about his plan of salvation.
It's through the the festivals that he actually lived his
ministry and fulfilled all of his word.
So there are these spring festivals that happened that are
all connected to Passover that are that's you know, typically
it's around Easter, Passover andEaster connected and those were
(32:51):
all fulfilled during Jesus earthly ministry.
But this ultimate significance and meaning of the fall feasts,
the ones that I just mentioned, those are pointing forward to
Jesus second coming, his return.So the Feast of Tabernacles,
which we're in the midst of right now, is ultimately about
God's dwelling place. In John chapter 1 when it said
(33:14):
the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
The Word is Tabernacle. Tabernacle.
So he's he's in our our dwellingplace.
He took on flesh. He's like God Incarnate,
dwelling within this like temporary shelter of this human
body, which is now ultimately eternal.
But in Revelation chapter 21, itsays now the dwelling of God is
(33:38):
with man. So like there's this ultimate
consummation of the Feast of Tabernacles when God will
ultimately Tabernacle with his people and it's kind of final
way of New Jerusalem. So it's an it's an anticipation.
And I think we do ourselves a bit of a disservice to like not
understand that. I'm not saying people need to
(34:00):
celebrate it necessarily. I think there's like a weird
conversation you can have about cultural appropriation when it
comes to that. But the the Jewish festivals are
not just simply things that are so admired in Jewish tradition
that we can't understand them. They're biblical feasts that
point to God's kind of propheticcalendar of what he's doing in
(34:22):
the world. Absolutely.
A lot of Jesus as I am statements came during some of
those and, you know, really kindof seeing his fulfillment,
especially like you said, in some of those spring events.
I love the way you just described that because it's it's
easy to think about. OK, yeah, these these festivals,
these feasts, there's just a wayof looking back at the history
and everything. But it's not only looking back,
(34:43):
but it's looking ahead at the same time, looking at, you know,
it at that. There's there's something to be
said. That's the reason we have the
Old Testament, you know, is to be able to realize the big story
of God. You know, the story of God
doesn't start with Jesus. The story of God has fulfilled
in Jesus. That's right.
And and being able to look back at God's people because that's
what we're talking about here, right?
God's chosen people, you know, the ancient Jewish culture and
(35:07):
yeah, those, those were moments that God ordained so that they
would remember. So there is value in
remembering, but there's also this forward-looking approach to
looking for Jesus to be the ultimate fulfillment in them.
And to me that's rich. To me, that's a deeper
understanding of who Jesus is. Then maybe we get if we don't
understand that. And so like, OK, so you, you
(35:28):
celebrate Shabbat, Shabbat. Yeah, Shabbat on Friday, Friday
night, Friday. Evening and my My wife will make
a challah, which is a traditional like braided bread
loaf and within our ministry here.
So like Jews for Jesus ministry looks different all around the
world. We kind of contextualize what we
do depending on the community we're speaking to Our ministry
(35:51):
here in LA is happens right across the street from UCLA
campus and we have a coffee art and community space called
upside down that we built a few years ago and it's a great
introduction to all of this stuff and somebody doesn't
understand how can Jewish peoplebelieve in Jesus And like,
what's that all about to have that conversation over a cup of
(36:12):
coffee in kind of like a chill laid back space.
Way better as like a first step than like, let's say, you know,
like an online conversation withlike a troll or like, you know,
some kind of like heated St. debate.
It's a really great place to get.
So like here in our Cafe space, we do events pretty frequently,
(36:34):
and just last week we did a calibrating workshop.
So we actually tell people how to make the bread that you eat
for Shabbat. And within that we'll kind of
like leave some of our traditions and prayers and stuff
and instructing people and inviting people to ask us
questions. So it's a lot of fun.
Yeah, yeah. Now, do you guys attend church
(36:55):
on Sundays? Like, yeah.
And so that's the, you know, of course, the celebration day,
that's the resurrection day. And, you know, you join with
other, other believers. And so, you know, I, I think
that's important for us to understand is that you, you hold
the same beliefs, but you're also practicing some of the
things from your culture, but it's not taking away from your
understanding of God. Or Jesus, it's.
(37:17):
Enhancing it. Yeah, exactly.
And there there's a wide spectrum of practice within
Jewish believers in Jesus. Like I said, some prefer to call
themselves Messianic Jews, and they'll have their primary
worship service on a Saturday morning, have a Shabbat service,
read from the Torah just like you would in the synagogue, but
explain how Jesus fulfills all of that and continue to have
(37:41):
prayers from a Jewish prayer book, which a Jewish prayer book
is all, you know, liturgy from the Bible.
It's Psalms. It's, you know, the prophets and
all that kind of stuff. So there's richness in that as
well. But yeah, for my family, I
actually serve as an elder at mylocal church here on the West
side of LA. It's called Collective Church
and there's a handful of Jewish followers of Jesus who are a
(38:05):
part of our community, but we'rea multicultural, multiethnic,
like all different ages, etcetera.
Very cool. And so you're you're worshipping
with other non Jewish Christians, right?
Yes, that's beautiful. I love that.
I think it's a picture of the Kingdom, man.
I do too. Like every tribe, tongue in
nation. That's where we're going.
Yeah, a lot of times we tend to segregate ourselves in the
(38:27):
church, and that's a different conversation for a different day
maybe, but but I love that it's just a mix.
It's a multicultural, multiethnic, that's what.
That's what heaven's going to be.
That's right. And that's what that's what
heaven on earth is going to be when it comes back.
And so when we think about what does it look like to minister to
someone, to witness to someone, fill in the blank whatever word
(38:48):
you want to use there, evangelize to someone who is
Jewish, What sort of language might you use to someone who is
so entrenched in their ancient heritage and customs to get them
to see, OK, well, maybe there's something to this Jesus guy.
Yeah, so glad you asked that. So the day we're recording this
(39:09):
is October 7th, so two years agomarks that it's his anniversary
of this like, terrible attack onIsrael, which is not just about,
you know, some kind of politicalfeud in the Middle East.
It affected the Jewish communityaround the world and LED to like
an increase in anti-Semitism everywhere.
(39:29):
So Jewish people are feeling theimpact of that and are feeling
scared and uncertain and not sure who to trust.
So as Gentile Christians, you actually have probably a more
important opportunity than ever before to communicate a sense of
(39:52):
love and support and cultivate trust with Jewish folks that you
know. There has never been a better
time that I've been alive. That a Christian who is not
Jewish can have a positive impact on a Jewish person
beginning to open up to the possibility of understanding
(40:13):
Jesus and trusting him. Because the first layer that
needs to be eroded between a Jewish person that won't really
anyone, but specifically for theJewish community and faith in
Jesus is trusting a Christian. And there's so many reasons
throughout history that Jewish people have been given to not
trust Christians. Nowadays it wouldn't necessarily
(40:37):
be like, oh, this Christian wants to do me harm.
But you know, if I get to know this Christian, you know,
they're just going to shove Jesus down my throat the next
time I had a get together with them.
So demonstrating A genuine care and interest in Jewish people
just purely from a place of saying I stand against
(40:59):
anti-Semitism, I want to supportyou.
I believe, you know, like the Bible tells me like that you're
loved by God just by virtue of who you are.
He set his affection on the Jewish people.
Doesn't mean they they're betterthan anyone else.
Doesn't mean like they're, you know, super special and super
(41:22):
powers or whatever, but it's, itwas God's choice, you know, and
for that reason, I will stand against hatred and I'll stand
with you. That's a powerful thing.
Yeah, mutual understanding goes a long ways with any, with
anybody really. And what I'm hearing is it's not
that different than anybody else.
You got to find common ground. You do, you got to say I, you
(41:43):
know, drop the agenda. You know, if we're loving
someone with the with an agenda,then that's not really loving
them. That's right.
And, and I like, I often say to people like, so we, we actually
have been encouraging Christiansto stand against anti-Semitism.
So if there's a way that you canstand visibly and vocally in
(42:04):
your community, I would encourage you to do it.
And we encourage, you know, if aJewish person were to approach
you and say, Hey, you're just doing this to like share Jesus
with me, aren't you? To respond saying like, do I
believe that Jesus is the ultimate hope for the world and
can bring you love and joy and truth?
(42:25):
Absolutely. But today I'm just here to
support you. That's like so important because
a lot of for a lot of Christianswho are zealous to share the
gospel, they would think that like settling and falling short
of declaring the truth of the gospel to anyone is compromise.
(42:46):
And I'm here to say, no, it's not.
You are, you're working a long game and God is a patient God.
And he is. He's after people.
And there's nothing that you're going to do that it's going to
detract from that. Man, that's awesome.
Now you'd mentioned, and maybe we can kind of close this way.
You'd mentioned that two years ago was that attack on Israel.
(43:08):
Israel has been in the news an awful lot over the last several
months, years, you know, and, and it feels like Israel's
always in the news. There's an intense battle going
on right now and I've had I've had people ask me why.
Why do we as Christians, what, why is it that we're so
involved? Why isn't that we care?
(43:30):
Why is it that it's important tous as Christians?
What happens in Israel for you Jews, for Jesus, or just you,
Isaac? How would you answer that
question for a sincere believer?Curious as to what's so
important about that land of Israel and what happens over
there today. Yeah, I would say it's really
(43:50):
important to know what we're talking about.
We're talking about Israel when you say Israel, that you're not
equivocating the modern state ofIsrael with the biblical Israel,
that you're not kind of assigning any kind of like
spiritual significance to the government of Israel, that
(44:13):
you're not deifying the Prime Minister of Israel.
There's a lot of misunderstanding amongst well
meaning Christian folks who say,you know, we're supposed to
support Israel. Yeah, I stand with Israel.
Yeah, It's like, OK, why do you know what that means to not just
kind of say it's my duty as a asan evangelical Christian to do
(44:36):
that, to not make it about politics?
Yeah, that's a big one. It's so important.
So I would say make a distinction between the
historical importance of the land, the political entity and
the people and know that absolutely the land is
significant and know that God isat work in the land of Israel.
(45:02):
But that when it comes to supporting Israel, the best way
that you can support Israel is with the gospel does behoove a
Christian to get mired and enmeshed in Middle Eastern
politics as an important like tenet of our faith?
(45:23):
The best thing that we can do asfollowers of Jesus to support
Israel is to ensure that the people there have access to hear
about the Messiah. And that will keep you from a
lot of the ways that people tendto capitulate towards political
(45:43):
talking points and rhetoric whenit comes to like preferring
Israelis over Palestinians. That's not God, like that's not
his heart, not at all. Reconciliation is the closest
thing to the heart of God. So when an Israeli and a
(46:04):
Palestinian can say to one another, I love you in the name
of Jesus, then the world will see the reconciling power of the
gospel. And so that's what we pray for.
It's happening. It's not meeting, it's not in
the headlines that it's harder more than ever because of the
current conflict there. And there is challenge.
(46:26):
There is like enmity that happens.
But I know that there are, and I've and I've met in Israel,
Israeli believers, Palestinian believers, love one another,
fellowship together. And that's, that should really
be where our focus is, where ourprayers are going, is to see
those kinds of things happen, not to like make some kind of
(46:51):
pronouncement about what you seein the headlines equaling God's
favor or disfavor over certain groups of people.
Yeah, that's so powerful. And what we're saying here is
this, If you want to be like Christ, if you want to let Jesus
come out in your life, then whatthat looks like is seeing people
(47:12):
for how Jesus sees them as a soul worth dying for, as a soul
worth reaching, as a soul worth loving, regardless of where they
live, regardless of where they come from, regardless of their
culture, regardless of their current religious system.
(47:34):
I think if we can learn to see like Jesus, that would fix a lot
of our problems. What a powerful way to say
support Israel. The best way we can support
Israel is with the gospel. Powerful.
And that answers my question of how do we pray for Israel?
And I think that's right in linea man, Isaac, this has been fun.
(47:55):
We may have to do the a second round of this.
Ask so many questions. Be happy to but.
You're doing fantastic work where God's called you to.
Can you tell us about how we canget involved with the mission
and purpose of Jews for Jesus and come alongside?
Come alongside you guys and support you.
Absolutely, We are inviting Christians to do a few different
(48:17):
things to support. We have a page on our website
that's just choose for jesus.orgback slash get involved.
And the primary ways to do that are prayer.
We send, if you're a prayer warrior, if you love praying for
some of the things that we've been talking about, there's kind
of a monthly prayer connect thatone of our staff is holding that
(48:40):
kind of gives you a more in depth look at what our what our
ministry is doing. And we send out prayer
reminders. So you could just sign up there.
There's also this resource that we put together called the Jews
for Jesus Classroom. And that is for people who are
interested in actually developing their witness to the
Jewish community and learning more about how to share the
(49:02):
gospel winsomely with the Jewishcommunity.
And it's an absolutely free resource that you just sign up
for. That's a three course video
series with multiple videos per course and couple like talking
points and like questions with each session.
(49:23):
And you can walk through it in like a few days.
And it's a great introductory resource for how to share the
gospel with Jewish people. So if you're in a community
where you have Jewish friends, neighbors, coworkers, whatever,
I would implore you to check that out and we'd love to
(49:43):
connect with you and be able to help you and your witness as
well. That's awesome.
I'll put those links in the shownotes as well.
But Isaac, man, you're a blessing.
I appreciate you being here withus, explaining to us how the
same God that saved your family,that came into your family and
(50:05):
changed the trajectory in just afew generations ago is the same
God is calling and pursuing all people today.
To him, to my listeners out there that are hearing this, I
encourage you to check out the resources we're going to list to
check out the work Isaac's doing.
And what we're talking about here is just sharing Jesus with
those around you and in this particular context today with
(50:30):
the Jewish culture. But you know what?
If you really believe what you say you believe, you'll share
the truth of Jesus with everyonearound you, regardless of where
they come from. So, Isaac, thank you my friend.
Thank you, Chad. We may plan to do this again
sometime soon, but bless you, bless your work, and look
forward to joining you again soon.
Thanks man, God bless you as well.
(50:52):
Thank you for listening to the Rev RX Podcast.
We hope you enjoyed what you heard today and if so, we'd love
it if you would hit that subscribe button so that you'll
never miss a new episode from us.
Also, feel free to leave us reviews and comments as we'd
love to hear from you. Be blessed and be the very best
you.
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