February 3, 2026 • 54 mins
What does it take to help build the modern Rent-To-Own industry from the ground up?
In this special Legends Series episode of The RTO Show, Peter Shau sits down with Bill French, Vice President of Rent-To-Own Sales at O’Rourke Sales Company and one of the most respected figures in RTO history.
Bill shares firsthand stories from the earliest days of rent-to-own, including how the industry evolved from black-and-white TVs and stereos into a nearly $10 billion business driven by gaming systems, premium appliances, and consumer choice. The conversation explores RTO advocacy, vendor partnerships, APRO’s role in protecting the industry, and why relationships still matter more than anything else in business.
What You’ll Learn:
- How Bill French discovered the Rent-To-Own industry in the early 1970s
- Why APRO became essential to protecting and legitimizing RTO businesses
- How vendor relationships shaped the growth of the rent-to-own channel
- Why gaming systems and premium electronics are transforming modern RTO
- What successful RTO dealers and vendors still get right after decades in business
Episode Highlights:
- 03:21 – How Bill French accidentally discovered the Rent-To-Own business
- 07:40 – Why major manufacturers originally resisted RTO partnerships
- 09:07 – The story behind the very first APRO meeting
- 13:10 – How APRO helped protect the industry from bad actors and regulation
- 16:47 – Why today’s RTO customers want premium products and high-end technology
- 21:16 – How buying groups like TRIB changed opportunities for smaller dealers
- 39:03 – Why gaming systems and gaming towers are reshaping RTO inventory
- 49:29 – Bill French’s biggest lesson about relationships, trust, and long-term business success
Meet the Guest:
Bill French is the Vice President of Rent-To-Own Sales at O’Rourke Sales Company and a longtime leader in the Rent-To-Own industry. With more than five decades of experience, Bill has helped shape vendor partnerships, industry advocacy, product strategy, and RTO business growth across multiple generations.
Tools, Frameworks, or Strategies Mentioned:
- APRO legislative advocacy and industry protection
- Vendor Advisory Committee collaboration
- RTO-focused inventory forecasting strategies
- Buying group partnerships through TRIB
- High-retention product categories in Rent-To-Own
- Relationship-driven sales and vendor partnerships
Closing Insight:
“The best people in business are the best listeners. If you always look after the customer’s needs first, you’re always going to win.” – Bill French
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Pete Chow.
(00:02):
You may know me from the R2 Showpodcast, but today, I'm doing
something a little bitdifferent.
April and Wild Brands havelaunched a special project to
bring the story of our industryto life like never before.
They've asked me to sit downwith some of the true legends of
Red Zone, capture their stories,their impact, and their vision
for the future.
And now, I get to share thoseconversations with you right
(00:22):
from the legends themselves.
A new book.
The Red Zone Revolution, adefinitive history of advocacy
and store access, written byApril CEO Charles Fitzman, and
Wildbrand CEO, Ryan Kraft.
The book explores the grassrootsof RTO, the advocacy that has
defined it, and the future thatwe're building together.
Here's where you come in.
(00:43):
We're giving away free copiesonce the book is released.
Just head over toRTORevolution.com and sign up
for a chance to receive a copyin early 2026.
Don't miss the chance to beamong the first to hold this
piece of RTO history.
That's rtoorevolution.com.
Check it out and become a partof RTO History.
(01:12):
Hello and welcome to the RTOshow.
I'm your host, Pete Chow, andtoday I have the legend, the
man, the walking legend, BillFrench.
He has been doing this twice aslong as I've been here.
I'm going to tell you right now,no, I have been dying to talk to
Bill for a long time.
We've kind of been going backand forth, had some mishaps in
the beginning, and I've reallybeen wanting to talk to him
(01:34):
because I mean, honestly, Bill,you have been doing this for so
long.
You've seen so many facets ofthis business.
I mean, literally from itsstarting, uh from the infantile
beginnings all the way to whatit is today.
And I mean, you've seen all ofit.
Now, right now, just so thateverybody's aware, Bill is the
(01:54):
vice president of vice presidentof the rent to own sales at
Oork.
Now, I know that everybody inthe RTO space probably have
heard of ORORK.
And if you haven't, guys, you'vebeen under a rock.
They do everything nowadays.
Bill, it's so great to have youon the show.
How are you doing today?
I'm doing great, bud.
How about you, Pete?
I'm excellent.
Listen, you know, every timethat I see you out on the shows,
(02:17):
every time that I see you doingsomething, you have more energy
than I do.
I don't know how you do it.
I gotta tell you, I love it.
I love watching it.
But it seems like that comesfrom a passion from being in
this business.
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
Most definitely.
I think attitude is everything.
You gotta have a positiveattitude.
Wake up every morning with alittle fire in your butt, and
the day will turn out to be agood day.
SPEAKER_01 (02:39):
And get it done, right?
Well, we are on the Legendsseries.
Now, as you guys know, we haveplenty of legends that are on
here.
Some of them don't go half asfar, some of them nowhere near
as far as O'Bill has.
1972 is when he started in theindustry, but he has moved his
way up in so many differentways.
But I wanted to go back, though.
(03:00):
I want to go back to where youall started, how where it came
from.
First off, how did you find therent-to-owned business?
I mean, when you started doingit, it wasn't anywhere near as
known as it is now.
How did you find a rent-to-ownedbusiness and how did you get
started?
SPEAKER_00 (03:14):
I was working a retail territory in South
Arkansas for a company calledFrank Lyon Company, and I'm
driving down a street in Texas,Texas, and I see a storefront
that says rent-to-own.
And in the window of the store,they had vacuum cleaners and
electrophonic stereos.
So I went, I need to look atthis.
(03:36):
So I pull in, go in, go into thestore, and I'm looking around.
This guy comes out of the backand said, What can I do for you?
I said, It's not what you can dofor me, it's what I can do for
you, buddy.
That's right, that's right.
He said, Well, what do you do?
And I said, Well, I sell RCATVs, and I thought he was going
to have a heart attack.
He said, Oh man, I need to talkto you.
(03:56):
And I said, Well, tell me whattell me about rental.
What is this?
How does it work?
And that's and the guy's namewas Bob White.
He was a brother of a guy namedBill White who started Action TV
in Dallas.
And um he started there inDexter Candle in one store, and
about five or six years later,he sold his company, which was
(04:17):
called Crown Rental, for severalmillion dollars, and the rest is
history there.
But that's how I got started.
And it took me because when Iwent back to my my boss and the
CFO of my company and said, Hey,I found this company that does
rent to own.
They'd look at me and go, Whatthe hell is rent to own?
(04:37):
And I said, Well, here's what hedoes.
First thing they ask me, and inretail, you have a UCC uh
agreement with the retaildealers that allows you to
repossess product if theydefault on paying you.
First thing they said, well, isif this guy rents it to somebody
who owns the product.
And it's I don't know.
(04:59):
So I make notes on all thesequestions they have, and I go
back two weeks later when I'm inthat same area and talk to Bob
again and say, Hey, I got abunch of questions, buddy.
You got to help me here.
You got to help me help you.
It took me several weeks to evenget him a credit line because
they didn't understand it.
(05:20):
And the banks didn't understandit then either.
They had no understanding ofwhat rent owned was really
about.
But um he wound up being mylargest customer out of my
entire territory, whicheverybody else in my territory
was retail.
But that was the start of rentowned to me, and it's been uh an
amazing ride.
(05:40):
I mean, so Bob and Bill, I takeit they were brothers?
They were brothers, totalopposites.
Bill White, who's dead now, Godrest him, was a very religious,
very, very, very principled,very nice man.
Conversely, Bob was veryprincipled, but he was a wild
man.
He liked to drink, could party,have a big time, and they they
(06:05):
weren't really close at all, butbut he'd he'd watched what his
brother was doing in Dallas anddecided to try to start his own
deal, and he did, and he did itvery well.
SPEAKER_01 (06:15):
So when you're talking about so you walked in,
so you were already a part ofselling you know the RCA TVs.
What was the main issue or orjust some of the issues?
I shouldn't say the main issue,but what were some of the issues
that you had to overcome to getthem to do this line?
You said it took a couple weeks,so as they're looking at a
couple of weeks.
SPEAKER_00 (06:36):
It took quite a while to get him a credit line
after going through and getdoing all the things you have to
do to get anybody set up.
But the uh major issues wasokay, how does the warranty
work?
Well, of course, rental dealerswant their warranty to work from
the date of their first rental,but making a manufacturer
understand that when they haveno knowledge of how the industry
(06:58):
works was was really hard at theoutset to try to get them to
understand how they take care ofwarranty.
SPEAKER_01 (07:05):
How long did it take to get that done?
Because I know it's not you justwalk in, explain it, and now
somebody knows.
I mean, how how difficult wasthat to get them to really say,
okay, I understand this enoughto be able to kind of work
within these boundaries?
SPEAKER_00 (07:18):
Well, initially, for the manufacturers, RCA being the
manufacturer at that time, theydidn't understand it at all.
And and I got I talked my bossesand the owner of my company into
making sure we took care of BobWhite for a year from the date
of the first rental.
And eventually when they startedseeing that volume, they began
to go, you took a little whilefor us to really get their in
(07:42):
the manufacturer's interest indoing rent to home.
They thought it was silly,crazy.
Today they don't think it's sosilly.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Well, I I I don't think so.
I mean, when you're talkingabout volume, if they became the
largest volume uh purchaser thatyou had, I couldn't imagine them
saying no, right?
Well go ahead.
Well, so how did you how did youend up with Old Rourke then?
SPEAKER_00 (08:06):
Well, long, long history.
I wound up when I when I workedfor Frank Line, I wound up
managing a branch, getting hiredaway from them and coming to
Dallas and running a company inDallas selling RCA, but there
was there was some rent homegoing on here, and in Houston
there was a company called Rimcothat was already established.
(08:26):
Um a lot of people that havebeen around will remember Rimco.
They were based in Houston, butum that I made a I made a trip
to Houston personally and talkedto them and and and got that
thing going.
But and at the same time, ErnieCalley was over in Wichita doing
his thing.
Um and there were people peoplebeginning to build a business
(08:49):
with with rent owned indifferent parts of the country.
So it started gaining ErnieErnie started in 1965 in Wich in
Wichita.
Um by 1972, there was the someother people were beginning to
to understand the business.
Then about nine when I came downhere, I came down here in 1981,
(09:11):
or eight nineteen eighty, andwent at the very first April
meeting.
Actually, Bill White was the theguy.
He called me and he said, Bill,we've got a meeting with a bunch
of guys.
We want to put together anassociation to represent our
industry, and we're gonna callit APRO.
Would you come to that meeting?
And I said, sure.
(09:31):
And so I went to that meetingand uh I was the only supplier
of to the rent-town industrythat went to that first April
meeting, which was prettyinteresting.
Turned out all these years laterI'm on the board at April and
very involved and and amthankful for the industry
because the rent-town industryhelped me feed my kids, get them
(09:54):
educated, gave me a life that Iwould have never imagined.
After I went to work in here,then I ran a company for that
did zenith in Houston about ayear later, and then I was hired
by, four years later, I washired by Zenith to be a VP over
a region.
And when that really began to,and because I I was the only guy
(10:16):
in the country that was reallydoing much rent-to-home, we want
you to kind of help us figurethis rent-to-home thing out.
And we hired a guy by the nameof Norm Smith, and there's an
award that I have behind mydesk, um, and it's the April
Norm Smith Vendor of the YearAward.
He was so influential in theindustry that they actually
(10:37):
named an award after him, and II won it after I moved over
here.
But no, it's um it's been aninteresting ride, and um one
that I've been very blessed tobe involved in because people
don't realize how valuable thisindustry is to the consumer.
There thousands of people inthis country wouldn't have nice
(10:59):
stuff in their homes if itweren't for rent-owned.
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
What was happening in the early 1980s?
You said that you start you youwent to the first April meeting
in 81.
What was happening uh in thattime frame in the early 80s, 81,
that you could say that you knowthere was a need for an advocacy
group at that time?
SPEAKER_00 (11:17):
Well, there were several guys that they they
brought into this.
Jim Brown, who was a dealer inWichita, that had worked for
Ernie Talley and then now was inhis own business, they invited
him down.
So there were folks from Texasas well as other parts of the
country, but primarily Texasdealers that sat down and carved
(11:37):
out what they wanted to do andhow they wanted to do it.
And Ed from APRO was the firstemployee of April, and he just
retired recently.
He was the legal counsel forAPRO for years and years and
years, but he basically sat downwith all these dealers and they
figured out how to form April asan association, and he got it
(12:01):
started, and not too long afterthat they hired Bill Keys to be
executive director.
But it's been an interestingride, and the the people that
the people that I get a littleaggravated with are the people
that are in this industry thatdon't understand the value of
APRO and don't get involved init because if it weren't for
(12:24):
APRO, we might not have abusiness, period.
SPEAKER_01 (12:28):
Well, we had the uh the uh Gonzalez situation, we
had the the tax situation.
I mean, there's a lot that thatAPRO has been able to help with.
And from your perspective, whatchallenges were were those the
type of challenges or were theyother challenges that they were
facing that they needed to makethis advocacy?
And just so you know, like it isgreat to hear that you came on
(12:50):
as a vendor, correct?
At that time you were you wereselling to the RTO industry, but
they found they found itimportant enough to bring you on
for counsel and to be a part ofit at that point in time.
What were they facing that waslike, hey, this is this is
something that we have going on?
Not only do we need to have ourdealers involved, we need to get
our vendors involved as well.
SPEAKER_00 (13:09):
Well, even back then, in like in 1980, 81, there
were some bad actors in ourindustry, and we need to put put
together or or establish bestpractices um and figure out a
way to protect our industry whensomebody comes along and does
(13:33):
something that's unethical andand or especially early on, a
lot of people didn't reallytrust this industry because they
didn't understand it.
And over the years we've beenable to build an amazing
industry and that now is is uhrecognized nationwide and a lot
of other countries, but it it'sit's been a really wonderful
(13:54):
thing to be a part of and towatch it become what it is today
from where it was in 1980.
Uh but more than anything else,people the guys that were in
that room wanted to figure out away to make sure that the
interests of the industry wereserved and that we were
(14:15):
protected from bad actors.
And and there's still I'm suresome of them out there today,
but with with 47 state statutesthat regulate our industry, and
we really don't need a federallegislation, we don't want it, I
don't think, either.
Because anytime you get thefederal government involved,
you're gonna have problems.
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
You know, we've gone back and forth on that issue.
Edwin thinks exactly like youdo.
I think that uh getting the 47states regulated was a win.
You know, talking about thefederal legislation and and how
that could affect us, both goodand bad, he feels the same way.
He's actually said the samething to me on this very show
about, you know what, it wouldcost a lot of money.
And at the end of the day, doyou really want the government
(14:55):
in your business?
At this point in time, we'reregulated very well.
We do a very good job at it onthe state level, and uh, we do
advocate this on a federal levelso that the people can
understand what's going on, butwe do get by very well.
I mean, it's almost a$10 billionindustry year after year after
year, based on the way we haveit regulated now.
Everything that's going on inNew York, notwithstanding, I
hope that we come out of thatunscathed.
(15:16):
But, you know, people don'treally understand the industry,
and I think that's the anotherhuge part of the advocacy side
of APRO is reminding people, notonly doing the legal aspect of
it, but actually reminding themof what we've been through and
obviously where we're going inthe future and what we can what
we can do together as anadvocacy group.
You know, how was how hard wasit?
(15:37):
Because you said that you camein with the RCA and then you
started doing it with Zenith.
How hard was it to get the otherlarge vendors involved, like
let's say uh Whirlpool and LG?
Was that was that a struggle toget them to understand exactly
what you understand today?
SPEAKER_00 (15:52):
Back at in the early 80s, for a while, or late 70s,
early 80s, RCA and Whirlpool hada marketing agreement, and most
dealers on the retail side, ifthey handled RCA and were in the
appliance business, they alsohad handled Whirlpool.
And bringing Whirlpool into thefold, they've been a great
supporter of the industry.
(16:13):
Even I, even though I don't sellthe product, they were and are a
great supporter of the industryback in the early 80s and
recognized the opportunity.
So Whirlpool for a long time,Whirlpool pretty much dominated
the rental side of the appliancebusiness.
And the folks like Crosleystarted recognizing the
opportunity and became prettygood size suppliers to the
(16:35):
industry.
But the cool thing that I'mseeing today, Pete, that rental
customers want the very samething that you and I want.
And we're renting to that.
I'll give you a good example.
I just sold one of my dealers uhhundred 100-inch televisions
(16:56):
that were shipping this monthfor rent to own.
Now, if you told me five yearsago that I would be selling a
hundred-inch television to arental dealer, I would have told
you you were nuts.
But it is a reality.
And and things like high-endSamsung refrigerators that that
have it's called called FamilyHub that has a screen on it, a
(17:18):
computer in it.
We're selling a lot of those.
And I would never have imaginedthat we'd be able to sell that
kind of product to arent-to-home customer.
But rent-to-home has become moreand more and more high-end than
than I ever imagined that itwould.
There's still a place forentry-level lead price product,
(17:39):
because that's in some casesthat's all somebody can afford.
But if we can find a way to puta rental rate on it, that rental
customer wants the very samething that you and I want.
They will, and the other thingthat that happens, and you you
know it as well as I do, thehigher end the product that you
put in a rental rentalcustomer's home, the better the
keep rate.
(17:59):
Because they got some moneyinvested in it, they're not
going to let it come back.
I mean, it's pretty cool, verycool, actually.
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
Well, you know, I'm glad that you said that because
Mr.
Bill French also also, becauseyou because you have been doing,
you have been a part of, notonly have you been a vendor for
so long, you've been a part ofApril as uh a couple of
different things, but right nowyou're on the vendor advisory
committee, is that correct?
That is correct.
I'm the vice chair.
And you've been doing and andyou've also been a liaison at
some certain points in time.
(18:28):
You've been a part of thisalmost from the get-go.
How important has the vendoradvisory committee been to April
since its its inception?
And when was it incepted?
SPEAKER_00 (18:39):
I think it's it's a partnership, obviously, with the
dealers that are on the on theinvolved in April and on the
board, but uh it it verydefinitely has been important to
have folks like myself and theother guys that have that have
been involved over the yearswith me from the vendor side.
When it comes down to what isneeded to make a convention
(19:00):
successful, for instance, whatare vendors April understands
this, and so does the TRIB groupalso understands it, that there
would not be these bigconventions if it were not for
vendor support and vendorsembracing April and TRIB.
And by being involved with them,little things come up like
carpeting and having carpetingin in the venue versus having to
(19:24):
rent it into.
There's a lot of little thingsthat have come into play that
have helped make theseconventions better by having
vendors, uh, a vendor advisorycommittee that has ideas about
we all want the same thing.
We all want to sell product, weall want, we want to sell it to
the dealer, we want our dealerto be successful with the
product.
And how we present that productis incredibly important at these
(19:48):
shows.
So having the vendor input intowhat goes into a show has been
very important.
SPEAKER_01 (19:56):
So you know, you mentioned trip and and there It
wasn't originally a trip.
Now I know that I see you at thetrib shows just as much as I see
at the APRO shows because Orworkis very, very involved.
And if you guys don't know, BillFrench is involved in just about
anything.
If you have it going on, you'regoing to see Bill there.
So what was what started thatcreated the ability for Trib to
(20:20):
be so important to the RTOindustry?
Did you play a part in that?
Did the vendors play a part inthat?
SPEAKER_00 (20:26):
I can't say that I played a part in that.
Norm Smith, the guy I mentionedearlier, that worked uh well, I
worked with at Zenith.
Um I was in charge of a regionof 17 states, but we put him in
place at Zenith after I gotthere to manage the and develop
the rental channel for Zenith.
And he was very instrumental inworking with, well, before
(20:50):
Dennis Shields, um, gosh, uhdrawn a blank.
I can see the guy's face rightnow.
John Blair?
John Blair.
He was instrumental in workingwith John and uh helping John
understand the value of puttingtogether vendor programs.
Whirlpool also worked reallywell with John Blair and put
together vendor programs thatoffered rebates and incentives
(21:14):
for buying the product.
An industry buying group, well,the biggest thing it's done is
just helped the smaller dealersget deals that they would never
get if it weren't for somebodylike Tribb and or like April,
but primarily Trib in that case.
Because if you're a member, youget the same price as a little
guy as the big guy gets, andputs you on a level playing
(21:34):
field.
So being a member of Trib or ofgood buying group, I think, is
for somebody especially that'sgot more than a tough store or
two, is essential to helping yoube competitive.
SPEAKER_01 (21:47):
Now, how advantageous has it been for
O'Rourke to be a part of TRIB ornationwide?
SPEAKER_00 (21:52):
Most definitely advantageous by by working with
them.
In fact, we're getting ready togo to our fall meetings with
TRIB and present our programsfor next year, but it's been by
them supporting us and endorsingus as a vendor, it's brought
dealers to us that we might nothave gotten.
And we've also got we've alsohelped them.
(22:13):
I've told more than one dealer,hey, if you only if you want to
be a success here, you need toget involved in TRIB and you
need to get involved in APRObecause TRIB helps you with your
buying, and APRO helps keep youin business.
SPEAKER_01 (22:26):
There you go.
I don't think I could have saidit any better than that.
That is absolutely the truth.
So, you know, you mentionedwarranty being one of the unique
things that happened uh thatcame out of the rent-to-owned
sector.
You know, hey, we we reallydon't want the warranty to start
when it lands because mostlikely it hasn't gone anywhere,
it hasn't done anything.
When we rented is where it wouldbe more beneficial for the
(22:49):
warranty to start because italso helps the customer and it
helps us.
We don't want to give it to themthree months after it already
started, has a one-year warrantyand they're already, they only
get nine months worth of it.
Is there anything else that youknow that came from rent to own
that made some of the vendorsrework how they've done
everything?
SPEAKER_00 (23:06):
Well, obviously the the product mix and things of
that nature have changed, but asa if you're really super
involved in rent to own, youneed to look at that business
and buy to support and be agreat supplier.
Here we we do everything at ourwork.
We do retail, we do premium, wedo military, we do rent to own.
(23:30):
Our mix for rent to own is quitea bit different than it is for
retail because in rent town,even though we do some high-end
product, we don't do the superhigh-end product that we do at
retail.
So if you're going to be areally good supplier to rent to
own, you need to understand thedealers' needs and what their
customers' needs are and buy tobe able to supply that on a
(23:52):
timely basis.
And we we do forecasting it.
Our folks in the field as wellas my we do forecasting based on
the uh the channel that we workin.
So there's forecasting that wedo that is specifically tied to
what needs to be done to supportthe rent-to-owned industry.
(24:14):
And it's a little bit differentthan retail, a premium, or even
military.
So the big business required,you need you need to understand
your dealers' needs and buy tosupply those needs.
SPEAKER_01 (24:25):
Absolutely.
Can you tell me what a customRTO vendor program looks like as
opposed to maybe a retailprogram?
What are some of the differenceson that?
SPEAKER_00 (24:33):
Primary differences are on the retail side, there's
a lot of a lot of programmingdone that um where you for
instance, you may, for aretailer, you do a kitchen
program that if you buy one toshow and one to go in all these
various SKUs that make up akitchen, you get some extra
(24:53):
discounts.
We have to tailor that a littlebit differently for rental than
we do for rent-to-own because umof the needs for somebody in a
for instance, rent-to-owned.
I can't tell you the last time Isold a dishwasher or an
over-the-range microwave, thingsof that nature.
Those things have to be lookedat harder for retail.
We don't even look at it forrent-to-owned.
(25:14):
So when we structure something,any kind of a program for
rental, we look at what if it'sa kitchen program, it may be a
refrigerator and a range.
Television, it may be atelevision and a sound bar or a
home theater system.
But you just have to kind oflook at the needs of what.
And we get a lot of input, butthe great thing is from our
(25:35):
customers, and they go, Bill, ifyou do something like this for
us, it would help us and itwould help your business.
So there's another key period toany business, and in particular
this one.
You have two ears for a reason.
The best people on the planet atdoing business are the best
listeners.
(25:56):
If you listen, your customerwill tell you what they want.
And then if you can deliver it,you become a valued supplier.
And uh I talk a lot, but I tryto listen more than I talk.
SPEAKER_01 (26:08):
Well, Bill, at this point in time, I mean, you have
so much knowledge and so muchexperience.
We've got to listen becauseyou've got a lot to say.
I mean, everything that you'resaying on here is definitely
something that I've been reallyinterested in hearing about.
What another thing that I'minterested in hearing about is
24 years ago, you decided tomake a change to O'Rourke, ORORC
Sales.
That's about 2021.
(26:30):
Am I right?
Is that when you came on top?
SPEAKER_00 (26:32):
Exactly right.
SPEAKER_01 (26:33):
So in 2021, what were you doing that made you
decide, you know what, Oork iswhere I want to be.
And you know, and then you climbyour way all the way up to being
vice president of Rent HomeSales.
Can you tell us a little bitabout how all that worked?
SPEAKER_00 (26:47):
Well, it's interesting how the good Lord
works, I'm telling you, becauseZenith had been bought out, and
I'd worked for them for aboutfive years.
LG had previously bought Zenithout of bankruptcy.
And I was working for LG as aVP.
And in their infinite wisdom,they decided they were going to
take the company down from abillion-dollar company to a$100
(27:11):
million company and rebuild it.
And in November of 2020, uh theycalled me in to corporate
headquarters in Glenview,Illinois, and said, Bill, we are
going to shut down all thebranches, and we want you to
stay on in your region, shut itdown, service, parts, sales,
(27:34):
close out your offices, and umbudget in order.
So of course that was a bigshock to me, and I was not happy
about that.
And they said, No, don't dothat.
(27:56):
We'll give you a severancepackage, pay you for an extra
year.
They put together a wholepackage, but I had to stay until
June 3, 2021.
And as luck would have it, inFebruary, the O'Rourks called me
and said, Hey, we would like tohire you.
They don't know all this stuffis going on with the Ed LG at
the time because I can't tellthem.
(28:16):
So I interviewed with them, madea deal, and said, Problem is I
can't go to work for you untilJuly the 1st.
And this was in February.
But I said, I'm excited to comeon board with you, but I can't
do it until July the 1st.
And they said, well, why not?
And I said, well, I have afederal employment agreement
with with LG that says I have tostay with them till June 30th
(28:43):
for a major bonus as well asinsurance and and pay for
another year.
Oh my goodness.
Anyway, they agreed to that.
And so I stayed, got my my thingdone with LG, came on board with
them July the 1st, and I wasreally hired by them to manage
the group business.
Nationwide, NATO.
(29:04):
Back then there was KeySouthwest.
There were several buying groupsthat I dealt with all of them,
and they were trying to figureout, oh, Rourke's were trying to
figure out how to get into thosegroups.
So we get that started, butabout six months in, Jeff
O'Rourke says, you know, you'vebeen involved in rent own, and
what do you think?
And I said, Well, there's a hugeopportunity there, and we're not
(29:25):
capitalizing on it.
He said, What do you think aboutshifting over and and you take
it over and you just run therent home business for us?
And I said, Well, I would lovethat.
Because it's I know there's anopportunity there, I know how to
do it, and I know a lot of thedealers already, so it's a it's
a natural fit for me.
So that's what happened.
(29:45):
And that first when I took thejob managing the rent own
channel, they'd done a millionand a half dollars in six
months.
Wow.
By the end of the year, we haddone about six and a half
million.
And we have grow we've grownfrom I can't, I'll never tell
anybody what our number is, butwe have grown from that point to
(30:10):
being the largest vendor otherthan Ashley Furniture in this
industry, period.
SPEAKER_01 (30:15):
Oh, I know it.
I know it.
Every time I go, the the L theuh the O Rourke booth seems to
get bigger and bigger andbigger.
You have a lot of amazing peoplethat work for you over there.
SPEAKER_00 (30:26):
We're very blessed.
We've assembled a really goodteam.
Uh I'm I'm probably gonna sounda little bit uh I'm not sure how
it sounds, but I believe I havethe best team around me uh in
the rental industry, and I alsohave the best management
supporting what we need to do inthe rental industry every day.
(30:48):
Um I mean, they're willing tomake if if we believe, if I can
present a plan to them thatmakes sense, they've never said
no in 24 years.
SPEAKER_01 (30:57):
Well, I mean, you know what you're doing,
especially with the history thatyou have.
I know Kevin, I know Felix, youguys do a great job over there.
You know, you were sayingsomething earlier, you know, the
the advocacy and you know, kindof how important it is, you
know, how do vendors support theApro events?
How how does it how do vendorssupport the legislative advocacy
(31:20):
or industry education?
How do you how do the vendors bea part of that?
How does it work and Bill Frenchbe a part of that?
SPEAKER_00 (31:26):
Well, number one, we I've done it for years, and I've
and I and I will do it again.
I'm gonna tentatively probablyretire at the end of next year.
I'm 81 years old now, I'm gonnahave to leave it sometime.
SPEAKER_01 (31:38):
You know what?
I can't imagine a day that BillFrench is not in rent to own.
SPEAKER_00 (31:42):
Well, Bill French can't imagine it either.
Because I love coming to workevery day.
I love dealing with my wholegoal every day is to try to help
anybody that I deal with or wedeal with, whether it's uh one
of our sales associates or acustomer, be more successful.
And if I can do that, then I'mthe guy who wins the most.
(32:06):
It's pretty easy and and andit's fulfilling.
But now as far as APRO, alegislative conference, I think
every vendor, every dealer,ought to be involved in that
legislative conference andexperience it to understand the
importance of APRO.
Because those folks on the hill,especially every couple of years
(32:29):
they roll over, most of themcan't spell rent on, let alone
understand what we do.
So to go in and sit down andsay, hey, we're not here looking
for a bill, we're not herelooking for anything.
We just want to explain to you,make sure you understand what
we're doing, so that if anythingcomes up, you can yell at us and
help us uh work our way throughanything that might come along.
(32:50):
It's just uh uh it maybe it getsto where when you go in these,
especially uh if you've done itin a while, you go from office,
you'll see the same face, butthey may be working for a
different representative or adifferent senator, but they
remember you because ofsomething you said to them last
year, the year before.
(33:11):
But it's very, very, verycrucial that the people that
enjoy the fruits of thisindustry, whether it be a
supplier or or a rent-to-owneddealer, they need to be involved
in APRO because without APRO,you might not have a business.
SPEAKER_01 (33:28):
When you start when when did you start going to the
to the legislative conferencefor April?
SPEAKER_00 (33:34):
Uh I actually because prior to coming to work
for O'Rourke, we have people ina rental channel at LG that
would do that.
But as soon as I came to workfor O'Rourke, that first year,
probably 20 2021, maybe 2022, Istarted going to the legislative
conference.
SPEAKER_01 (33:53):
And and I said is wait, is that 20 you said 2021
or 2022 or 2001 and 2002?
Oh 2001, 2001, 2002.
SPEAKER_00 (34:02):
I'm sorry.
My bad, Pete.
Thank you for correcting me.
No, it's probably 2001, 2002,and then oh about three or four
years in, uh there was a guynamed Ellison Crider that was a
uh a dealer in South Texas thatwas the head of the vendor
advisory committee.
(34:22):
And he wanted to, he was gettinginto his own business.
So he and Bill Keese called meand said, Hey, we'd like for you
to get on the vendor advisorycommittee and uh and become the
vice chair.
And I said, Well, how do I dothat?
They said, Well, you have to bevoted in, but if you say you'll
do it, I guarantee you you'llget voted in.
(34:42):
So I did, and the rest ishistory.
SPEAKER_01 (34:46):
Now, in Texas, there was the Henry B.
Gonzalez thing where, you know,it was a legislator who was
trying to end what you know,what we know as rent to own.
When that was happening, wherewere you as a part of a part of
this?
Were you able to take part insome of what happened?
Did you know about what wasgoing on at that particular time
when they were trying tobasically end rent to own as we
(35:07):
know it?
SPEAKER_00 (35:08):
I wasn't actively involved in that effort, but I
was very much aware of it.
So no, I can't take any creditfor that.
But I the Henry B.
Gonzalez, it's kind of ironicthat over the years we've had
rent-to-own conventions in theHenry B.
Gonzalez Convention Center.
SPEAKER_01 (35:23):
We sure have.
SPEAKER_00 (35:24):
And he's the very guy who tried to put us out of
business.
SPEAKER_01 (35:27):
You know, talk about ironic, right?
And then and then and then we goin there and have more successes
year after year after year afteryear after that.
So like how would you describethe mutual dependency that
rent-to-owned dealers have withtheir vendors?
SPEAKER_00 (35:42):
I'm not sure how to explain that, other than to say
this business is very, very,very much relationship-driven.
If you're going to be successfulin this business as a vendor,
you you need to get acquaintedwith the people you're doing
business with, learn about whothey are, what they're about.
(36:04):
In a lot of cases, most of a lotof these people, I know their
kids, I know their grandkids,um, and am genuinely interested
in their lives and what they do.
And I think that people whenyou're dealing with people, they
can sense whether you're sincereor not, whether you care about
them or not, or whether you'rejust trying to get an order.
(36:27):
I'm never just trying to get anorder.
I'm trying to develop a r arelationship that is mutually
beneficial, that says anythingyou need, Mr.
Dealer, if I can help you, Iwill.
And that that may even mean thatI may not sell you anything.
It may mean when I send you inanother direction because I
don't have what you need, butI'll try to help you any way I
(36:49):
can.
Hopefully I have something I canhelp you with, but if I don't,
I'll still try to help you.
You got to care about people,you got to care about long-term
relationships.
If you love it's it's amazing,Pete.
If you love people, you get thatlove back.
And it's just the way I live mylife.
SPEAKER_01 (37:08):
I can tell, I could tell that, Bill.
That's the way that's the wayyou do it.
That's the way you've alwaysbeen.
When you go back to the pointwhere we're talking about you're
selling RCA TVs to therent-owned industry, and
Whirlpool was involved a littlebit in front.
What was the progression?
You said you know, you did TVsfirst, you did the RCA TVs
first, and we're talking aboutearly 70s.
(37:30):
What was the progression ofinventory after that that you
dealt with?
Obviously, it was TVs first.
Was it appliance second or wasit anything else second?
What came through?
SPEAKER_00 (37:39):
In the 70s, it started out with the big cellar
in the rental own rent-to-ownedindustry was 19-inch black and
white televisions to begin with.
And that evolved into coloredtelevision in the early late
60s, early 70s.
And obviously lead laundry withwashers and dryers.
(37:59):
Um from my perspective, I'dnever I've never done a lot in
furniture, but I've doneeverything you can in TV andor
appliances.
But the evolution is it startedout even when the rent-to-owned
dealer's mentality was I gottahave the cheapest TV I can get
so I can rent it.
Probably got to have thecheapest washer and dryer that I
(38:20):
can acquire so I can rent it.
But over time, obviously thathas evolved a little bit.
It it keeps changing, and eventoday it keeps changing because
today there's more high-endproduct done.
Um we'll give you where we werethen.
Back then we the other thing wedid a lot of, and it was back in
the early days was was bigstereos that had lights, big old
(38:46):
speakers that there was nothingbehind the speaker grill, but it
it looked impressive.
And in some cases sounded okay,but not not great.
But we did a lot of that kind ofstuff.
Those things have all evolved,just like in on the retail side
over the over the years.
And a good example today that wedidn't even have back then, our
(39:08):
fastest growing category ofproduct is gaming towers and
gaming systems, like PS5s,Xboxes, uh, that kind of
product, as well as gamingtowers and monitors.
That category is surpassingtelevision in volume because you
rent a gaming tower and amonitor, that's that's in the
(39:32):
same volume as renting like375-inch TVs today.
I mean, it's the dynamic haschanged in in terms of what our
dealers are are really rentingand what they want.
Television is still a big partof our business, but it's not
the biggest part anymore.
It's part of it.
Twenty one years, twenty fiveyears ago when I started here
(39:55):
twenty four, television drovethe drove the bus for us for
many years.
As being the highest volumeproduct.
That's now, it's still there andit's still viable, but because
prices have come down so muchand new products have come to
the forefront, they're notnearly as impactful for us in
(40:15):
terms of volume and what we do.
But we don't want to turn any ofthat down because that business
is still there.
It's just changed.
SPEAKER_01 (40:24):
Now the tariff situation is something that a
lot of people talk about.
You know, they say, oh, youknow, tariffs are going to
change the world uh in theUnited States.
You know, it's going to changeeverything if it's not going to
be the same.
You know, tariffs are going tomake a lot of things uh more
expensive to get, harder to buy.
As you've gone through thegenerations of what you've sold,
you know, going from one productto the next product to the next
(40:44):
product, has there anything, hasthere been anything like a
tariff uh in the back, you know,in the back end and years ago
that kind of put a strain onsome of your dealers to be able
to purchase or some of you knowwhat you had to be able to say
this is a good product, but theprice went up for whatever
reason, whether it bemanufacturing costs, shipping
costs, anything like that?
SPEAKER_00 (41:05):
Well, but going back early on, all of our products
pretty much we sold or rent tohome back in the 70s were
manufactured in the UnitedStates.
Appliances, television, RCA wasto manufacture plants all over
the all over the country,Bloomington, Indiana,
Indianapolis.
They had cabinet plants over inthe Carolinas, but Zenith at
(41:27):
that time the same, Magnavox,and the names have changed.
A lot of the names that werewere big in our industry 50
years ago don't even existtoday.
A good example is Zenith.
When I got in this business,over 50% of the television
business was done by RCA andZenith.
(41:48):
They pretty much split it downthe middle.
And then you had Magnavox andMotorola and Sylvania, different
brands that Admiral did a littlebusiness, but over half the
business was with two brands.
And also back then, Whirlpooland GE were over fifty percent
of the business in appliances.
(42:10):
Now that's changed dramaticallyover the years.
Um with with the changes in theway of but the the changes that
that had some effect whileliving through that was
manufacturing moving out of theU.S.
to either Mexico or the Orient,China, Taiwan, Vietnam, those
(42:30):
things changed the way we dobusiness.
Lead times changed because allof a sudden, well, it wouldn't
say all of a sudden, but youwent from having product
manufactured here that wasmanufactured in a plant, put on
a truck and delivered to yourwarehouse, and now it's
manufactured in a plant, put ona boat that takes six, eight
(42:52):
weeks to get here.
So the way you plan yourbusiness had to change with the
way the manufacturing was done.
So that changed the way we didwe did.
We had to look at ourforecasting, look at our needs,
and we had to get better atplanning our business because
the plants were no longer in theU.S.
It was it was a differentbusiness.
(43:13):
And it was different.
SPEAKER_01 (43:15):
It seems like you could definitely change the
aspect of it, you know, whenyou're talking about a week lead
time to six-week lead time.
So, you know, as a in in so ourwork is a distributor, correct?
Yes.
So basically, the the the roleof a distributor is to get all
these products in and then shipfrom the warehouses here after
(43:36):
they've already already come.
Is that correct?
That's correct.
Now, now that you have thatability because we're storing it
here, it's been placed, that'swhat the cycles you're talking
about.
We have to know what probably isgoing to sell within the next
six to eight weeks.
We've got to put that order, itcomes in, and then we we sell it
early on.
So when it comes to new productthat are coming in, something
(43:57):
that you know, uh a new idea, anew stereo, a new computer, how
far out do you have to order itbefore you actually have that
product in your distributioncycle?
SPEAKER_00 (44:07):
Depends upon what it is, and if it's a new product,
I'll give you a good example.
I mentioned gaming towers is asone of our bigger, fastest
growing categories for us.
We developed Skytech as ourgo-to brand in gaming towers,
and we were looking at a way todo that, and we looked at
traditional manufacturers, andtheir stuff wasn't all that cool
(44:29):
looking.
Plus, they they were not toosure about rent to own, just
like folks at a TV businessweren't 50 years ago.
Well, how do you know this isgoing to work?
Well, we know it's gonna work.
But anyway, we found a supplierin Skytech, and Jane R.
Doan, who's our vice presidentin charge of that area of
procuring product, met with him.
He sat down with their engineersand literally designed what we
(44:53):
wanted in a gaming tower withlights, the fan, the features
that we wanted in a gamingtower, and designed what he
believed, and he's been dead ordead right on it, would work for
rent to own.
Our first order, a pallet oftowers, is 18 pieces.
Our first order was 18 piecesfive years ago, and they were
(45:16):
sold before we ever got them.
Last year, I can't give you anumber, but we sold many, many,
many thousands of those gamingtowers.
But when you got a new productand you know what's gonna do and
how it's gonna develop,obviously you've got to have a
little caution and try to figureit out, but um been very
(45:37):
successful with it.
Um but the lead times thereagain, that product is is
assembled and put together herein the States, but a lot of the
chips and a lot of thecomponents come from the China
or Vietnam, Taiwan, someplaceacross the water.
So forecasting there again,you've got to look at lead
(45:59):
times, and you know, you'relooking six, eight, some cases
three months out from the whenyou decide you're gonna do
something until you actually getthat finished product in your
barn shipped to a dealer.
So the planning side of thisbusiness has gotten more
difficult, but also with uhprogramming and computers and
(46:22):
and the way we can uh managedata, it's not as difficult
maybe as it sounds.
Because we got a lot ofinformation at our fingertips to
help us manage that kind ofthing.
SPEAKER_01 (46:34):
Not as difficult as it used to be, right?
Now that AI is involved and haveall these uh computer cycles.
So looking back on your careerfrom like the 1970s to today,
what is one thing about thisindustry that still surprises
you?
SPEAKER_00 (46:49):
Probably more than anything else, I would say,
Pete, is is the great thing.
Is how much it changes from oneyear to the next in terms of
what we're selling, what ourwhat our customers want, what
they need.
I mean, you got you got dealersrenting tires, you got dealers
renting.
Somebody told me ten years agoI'd be selling purses that
(47:13):
people would rent, I would havetold them you were crazy.
But we do a lot of just thethings that, especially in the
rent-to-own industry, theproducts that people are willing
to rent because they have adesire for it.
And that's the other thing Ithink too, is a lot of these
products that we sell to ourdealers and they rent are kind
(47:37):
of status symbols for theircustomer, whether it be a big
television or a Michael Coorspurse or the refrigerator, the
family hub refrigerator that hasa computer in it and a screen.
I think a lot of cases those arenot only they they fill a need,
but they also are somewhat of astatus symbol for the family
(47:58):
that's doing it.
SPEAKER_01 (48:00):
Well, I mean, you you've you've I think you've
nailed it on the head.
When you walk into somebody'shouse and you're going, oh,
you're, you know, you're arent-to-one customer, but oh my
God, look at the 100-inch TV.
Oh my God, look at you know,that custom-built rig that you
have over there that can playthe AAA games uh that are coming
out in today's world, and youknow, 4K, 8K, and everything
thereof.
(48:20):
Or, you know, they go to they goto get a drink out of the fridge
and it's just something out ofthis world.
I agree with you 100%.
It's not what it used to be.
Uh, and nowadays people arewilling to pay whatever they
need to in order to get whatthey want.
And it's not always a needbecause you obviously have the
needs.
I mean, that's literally whatthis business was built on the
people who have needs who don'thave the ability.
(48:41):
But then it's also transitionedto, well, this is a want, and I
want this.
I think it's a great idea, but Iwant to have the larger TV.
I want to have the faster gamingcomputer.
I want to have, you know, theshiny stereo, whether it makes
light, you know, whether it haslights or not, you know, it's
it's also turned into a choice.
This is what I can have, butthis is also what I want.
(49:03):
And how do we marry thosetogether?
SPEAKER_00 (49:04):
One of the best keep rate products that we sell to
the rent-town industry is agaming tower or a PS5, something
to do with gaming.
None of those are needs.
Those are nothing more thanwants.
But the keep rate there isbetter than it is on, they might
give up their kids' buckbitsbefore they give up their gaming
(49:25):
system.
unknown (49:26):
I hope.
SPEAKER_01 (49:26):
But you might exactly be right.
Well, I gotta ask you, you know,as we wind down, what do you
want people to remember aboutthe vendors who helped build
rent to own?
SPEAKER_00 (49:37):
As much as anything that anybody, if you're a dealer
or if you're a vendor, the goalis looking at it from either
side, is you want a partner.
You develop a partnership thatis mutually beneficial, and if
you care about one another,things are gonna work every day.
(49:58):
But but you gotta care, yougotta you gotta be sensitive to
the needs in any businessrelationship.
It has to be win win.
The vendor has to win, thedealer has to win.
And and if as a vendor you feellike, or when you're renting a
(50:19):
customer, if you feel like, ohman, I won that one, I took
advantage of that person, in thelong run, you're going to lose.
You need for whomever you'redealing with to feel like you
may be winning, but they alsohave to feel like they are
winning, and you need to feellike they are winning.
You both have to win.
If you do that, and prettysimple, don't ever make a
(50:44):
commitment that you can't keep.
You're not sure of your thatyou're able to keep.
Always, always, if you alwayslook after the customer's needs
first, you're always going towin.
SPEAKER_01 (50:55):
Well, this is a relationship business, right?
I mean, 100% and we we havebuilt and we live by the
relationships that we've built,whether you're coming up from
the from the 70s, like like Mr.
Bill French has, the the one andonly who has bred it up through
the decades, whether you'recoming into it now, it's about
based on the relationship andthe builds, the ability to, you
know, nurture that relationship.
(51:16):
And you know, I do what I sayI'm gonna do, you do what you
say you're gonna do, andeverybody be up front because
not everybody's perfect andthings happen, but let's be up
front and always work on ourobligations and make it happen.
Uh Bill, I can't tell you howimportant it is to have you on
the Legends series, to do someof the things that you've done
throughout all the years, to beable to re recount some of the
things that you've been able tobe a part of and work on and do.
(51:40):
It has absolutely been justamazing to talk with you.
I'm so glad that you've been onhere 24 years of our work, 54
years in the rent-to-ownedindustry.
It doesn't get much better thanthat.
I mean, I think Bill Frenchknows just about everything
there is to know on your side ofthe fence.
Guys, I want to tell you Iappreciate you joining us for
the Legends series.
It has been so fun being able tospeak to some of these legends
(52:01):
and kind of learn a lot aboutthe rent-to-one industry and
what they've poured into it, theimportance they've had.
If you have any questions,please reach out to the uh to
the podcast.
It's Pete at the RTOShowpodcast.com.
If you have any questions forBill, reach out, send me an
email, and I will make sure thathe gets an answer for you
because I'm sure there are a lotmore things that you want to
know that I didn't even get toyet.
Want to tell you if you want tolook us up, we are on Facebook,
(52:24):
Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTubewhere you're gonna see this.
Please send me a DM if you haveany questions.
Make sure you subscribe andlike.
You can also go to the websiteat www.thertoshowpodcast.com,
buy some squag.
You can also support the show onthere.
Bill, I appreciate you beinghere.
I loved everything.
I love it so much.
I hate to see that there mightbe an end to this, but I'm gonna
(52:45):
tell you guys as long as Bill isaround, I will be around.
Uh, and we're gonna be lookingforward to that.
And if you have a party, Bill,you've got to invite me because
we're gonna have one heck of aretirement party.
But I will tell you guys asalways, thank you for being here
and make sure that you get yourcollections low to get your
sales high.
Have a great one.
Thank you, Pete.
(53:05):
Hey everyone, it's Pete Chaohere from the RTO Show Podcast,
and I want to tell you about acompany that's making a real
difference in the rent-to-ownedspace.
WoW brands.
I've seen firsthand how theyapproach marketing.
Let me tell you, it's not justabout addicts.
WoW brands build completedigital ecosystems designed
specifically for therent-to-owned industry.
Their e-commerce and leadgeneration strategies are built
(53:27):
to bring qualified leaders.
Did I mention that they areactively working with the
rent-owned industry while alsobeing members of April and Trip?
These folks are passionate aboutit.
They don't just slap somethingtogether.
They design, build, and scalethe kind of digital retail tools
your business needs.
Your customers actually want.
So if you're serious aboutgrowing, reach out to WoWBrands
(53:49):
at Wildbrands.com.
I trust it, and I think you willtoo.
Hi, I'm Pete Chow.
(00:02):
You may know me from the R2 Showpodcast, but today, I'm doing
something a little bitdifferent.
April and Wild Brands havelaunched a special project to
bring the story of our industryto life like never before.
They've asked me to sit downwith some of the true legends of
Red Zone, capture their stories,their impact, and their vision
for the future.
And now, I get to share thoseconversations with you right
(00:22):
from the legends themselves.
A new book.
The Red Zone Revolution, adefinitive history of advocacy
and store access, written byApril CEO Charles Fitzman, and
Wildbrand CEO, Ryan Kraft.
The book explores the grassrootsof RTO, the advocacy that has
defined it, and the future thatwe're building together.
Here's where you come in.
(00:43):
We're giving away free copiesonce the book is released.
Just head over toRTORevolution.com and sign up
for a chance to receive a copyin early 2026.
Don't miss the chance to beamong the first to hold this
piece of RTO history.
That's rtoorevolution.com.
Check it out and become a partof RTO History.
(01:12):
Hello and welcome to the RTOshow.
I'm your host, Pete Chow, andtoday I have the legend, the
man, the walking legend, BillFrench.
He has been doing this twice aslong as I've been here.
I'm going to tell you right now,no, I have been dying to talk to
Bill for a long time.
We've kind of been going backand forth, had some mishaps in
the beginning, and I've reallybeen wanting to talk to him
(01:34):
because I mean, honestly, Bill,you have been doing this for so
long.
You've seen so many facets ofthis business.
I mean, literally from itsstarting, uh from the infantile
beginnings all the way to whatit is today.
And I mean, you've seen all ofit.
Now, right now, just so thateverybody's aware, Bill is the
(01:54):
vice president of vice presidentof the rent to own sales at
Oork.
Now, I know that everybody inthe RTO space probably have
heard of ORORK.
And if you haven't, guys, you'vebeen under a rock.
They do everything nowadays.
Bill, it's so great to have youon the show.
How are you doing today?
I'm doing great, bud.
How about you, Pete?
I'm excellent.
Listen, you know, every timethat I see you out on the shows,
(02:17):
every time that I see you doingsomething, you have more energy
than I do.
I don't know how you do it.
I gotta tell you, I love it.
I love watching it.
But it seems like that comesfrom a passion from being in
this business.
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
Most definitely.
I think attitude is everything.
You gotta have a positiveattitude.
Wake up every morning with alittle fire in your butt, and
the day will turn out to be agood day.
SPEAKER_01 (02:39):
And get it done, right?
Well, we are on the Legendsseries.
Now, as you guys know, we haveplenty of legends that are on
here.
Some of them don't go half asfar, some of them nowhere near
as far as O'Bill has.
1972 is when he started in theindustry, but he has moved his
way up in so many differentways.
But I wanted to go back, though.
(03:00):
I want to go back to where youall started, how where it came
from.
First off, how did you find therent-to-owned business?
I mean, when you started doingit, it wasn't anywhere near as
known as it is now.
How did you find a rent-to-ownedbusiness and how did you get
started?
SPEAKER_00 (03:14):
I was working a retail territory in South
Arkansas for a company calledFrank Lyon Company, and I'm
driving down a street in Texas,Texas, and I see a storefront
that says rent-to-own.
And in the window of the store,they had vacuum cleaners and
electrophonic stereos.
So I went, I need to look atthis.
(03:36):
So I pull in, go in, go into thestore, and I'm looking around.
This guy comes out of the backand said, What can I do for you?
I said, It's not what you can dofor me, it's what I can do for
you, buddy.
That's right, that's right.
He said, Well, what do you do?
And I said, Well, I sell RCATVs, and I thought he was going
to have a heart attack.
He said, Oh man, I need to talkto you.
(03:56):
And I said, Well, tell me whattell me about rental.
What is this?
How does it work?
And that's and the guy's namewas Bob White.
He was a brother of a guy namedBill White who started Action TV
in Dallas.
And um he started there inDexter Candle in one store, and
about five or six years later,he sold his company, which was
(04:17):
called Crown Rental, for severalmillion dollars, and the rest is
history there.
But that's how I got started.
And it took me because when Iwent back to my my boss and the
CFO of my company and said, Hey,I found this company that does
rent to own.
They'd look at me and go, Whatthe hell is rent to own?
(04:37):
And I said, Well, here's what hedoes.
First thing they ask me, and inretail, you have a UCC uh
agreement with the retaildealers that allows you to
repossess product if theydefault on paying you.
First thing they said, well, isif this guy rents it to somebody
who owns the product.
And it's I don't know.
(04:59):
So I make notes on all thesequestions they have, and I go
back two weeks later when I'm inthat same area and talk to Bob
again and say, Hey, I got abunch of questions, buddy.
You got to help me here.
You got to help me help you.
It took me several weeks to evenget him a credit line because
they didn't understand it.
(05:20):
And the banks didn't understandit then either.
They had no understanding ofwhat rent owned was really
about.
But um he wound up being mylargest customer out of my
entire territory, whicheverybody else in my territory
was retail.
But that was the start of rentowned to me, and it's been uh an
amazing ride.
(05:40):
I mean, so Bob and Bill, I takeit they were brothers?
They were brothers, totalopposites.
Bill White, who's dead now, Godrest him, was a very religious,
very, very, very principled,very nice man.
Conversely, Bob was veryprincipled, but he was a wild
man.
He liked to drink, could party,have a big time, and they they
(06:05):
weren't really close at all, butbut he'd he'd watched what his
brother was doing in Dallas anddecided to try to start his own
deal, and he did, and he did itvery well.
SPEAKER_01 (06:15):
So when you're talking about so you walked in,
so you were already a part ofselling you know the RCA TVs.
What was the main issue or orjust some of the issues?
I shouldn't say the main issue,but what were some of the issues
that you had to overcome to getthem to do this line?
You said it took a couple weeks,so as they're looking at a
couple of weeks.
SPEAKER_00 (06:36):
It took quite a while to get him a credit line
after going through and getdoing all the things you have to
do to get anybody set up.
But the uh major issues wasokay, how does the warranty
work?
Well, of course, rental dealerswant their warranty to work from
the date of their first rental,but making a manufacturer
understand that when they haveno knowledge of how the industry
(06:58):
works was was really hard at theoutset to try to get them to
understand how they take care ofwarranty.
SPEAKER_01 (07:05):
How long did it take to get that done?
Because I know it's not you justwalk in, explain it, and now
somebody knows.
I mean, how how difficult wasthat to get them to really say,
okay, I understand this enoughto be able to kind of work
within these boundaries?
SPEAKER_00 (07:18):
Well, initially, for the manufacturers, RCA being the
manufacturer at that time, theydidn't understand it at all.
And and I got I talked my bossesand the owner of my company into
making sure we took care of BobWhite for a year from the date
of the first rental.
And eventually when they startedseeing that volume, they began
to go, you took a little whilefor us to really get their in
(07:42):
the manufacturer's interest indoing rent to home.
They thought it was silly,crazy.
Today they don't think it's sosilly.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Well, I I I don't think so.
I mean, when you're talkingabout volume, if they became the
largest volume uh purchaser thatyou had, I couldn't imagine them
saying no, right?
Well go ahead.
Well, so how did you how did youend up with Old Rourke then?
SPEAKER_00 (08:06):
Well, long, long history.
I wound up when I when I workedfor Frank Line, I wound up
managing a branch, getting hiredaway from them and coming to
Dallas and running a company inDallas selling RCA, but there
was there was some rent homegoing on here, and in Houston
there was a company called Rimcothat was already established.
(08:26):
Um a lot of people that havebeen around will remember Rimco.
They were based in Houston, butum that I made a I made a trip
to Houston personally and talkedto them and and and got that
thing going.
But and at the same time, ErnieCalley was over in Wichita doing
his thing.
Um and there were people peoplebeginning to build a business
(08:49):
with with rent owned indifferent parts of the country.
So it started gaining ErnieErnie started in 1965 in Wich in
Wichita.
Um by 1972, there was the someother people were beginning to
to understand the business.
Then about nine when I came downhere, I came down here in 1981,
(09:11):
or eight nineteen eighty, andwent at the very first April
meeting.
Actually, Bill White was the theguy.
He called me and he said, Bill,we've got a meeting with a bunch
of guys.
We want to put together anassociation to represent our
industry, and we're gonna callit APRO.
Would you come to that meeting?
And I said, sure.
(09:31):
And so I went to that meetingand uh I was the only supplier
of to the rent-town industrythat went to that first April
meeting, which was prettyinteresting.
Turned out all these years laterI'm on the board at April and
very involved and and amthankful for the industry
because the rent-town industryhelped me feed my kids, get them
(09:54):
educated, gave me a life that Iwould have never imagined.
After I went to work in here,then I ran a company for that
did zenith in Houston about ayear later, and then I was hired
by, four years later, I washired by Zenith to be a VP over
a region.
And when that really began to,and because I I was the only guy
(10:16):
in the country that was reallydoing much rent-to-home, we want
you to kind of help us figurethis rent-to-home thing out.
And we hired a guy by the nameof Norm Smith, and there's an
award that I have behind mydesk, um, and it's the April
Norm Smith Vendor of the YearAward.
He was so influential in theindustry that they actually
(10:37):
named an award after him, and II won it after I moved over
here.
But no, it's um it's been aninteresting ride, and um one
that I've been very blessed tobe involved in because people
don't realize how valuable thisindustry is to the consumer.
There thousands of people inthis country wouldn't have nice
(10:59):
stuff in their homes if itweren't for rent-owned.
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
What was happening in the early 1980s?
You said that you start you youwent to the first April meeting
in 81.
What was happening uh in thattime frame in the early 80s, 81,
that you could say that you knowthere was a need for an advocacy
group at that time?
SPEAKER_00 (11:17):
Well, there were several guys that they they
brought into this.
Jim Brown, who was a dealer inWichita, that had worked for
Ernie Talley and then now was inhis own business, they invited
him down.
So there were folks from Texasas well as other parts of the
country, but primarily Texasdealers that sat down and carved
(11:37):
out what they wanted to do andhow they wanted to do it.
And Ed from APRO was the firstemployee of April, and he just
retired recently.
He was the legal counsel forAPRO for years and years and
years, but he basically sat downwith all these dealers and they
figured out how to form April asan association, and he got it
(12:01):
started, and not too long afterthat they hired Bill Keys to be
executive director.
But it's been an interestingride, and the the people that
the people that I get a littleaggravated with are the people
that are in this industry thatdon't understand the value of
APRO and don't get involved init because if it weren't for
(12:24):
APRO, we might not have abusiness, period.
SPEAKER_01 (12:28):
Well, we had the uh the uh Gonzalez situation, we
had the the tax situation.
I mean, there's a lot that thatAPRO has been able to help with.
And from your perspective, whatchallenges were were those the
type of challenges or were theyother challenges that they were
facing that they needed to makethis advocacy?
And just so you know, like it isgreat to hear that you came on
(12:50):
as a vendor, correct?
At that time you were you wereselling to the RTO industry, but
they found they found itimportant enough to bring you on
for counsel and to be a part ofit at that point in time.
What were they facing that waslike, hey, this is this is
something that we have going on?
Not only do we need to have ourdealers involved, we need to get
our vendors involved as well.
SPEAKER_00 (13:09):
Well, even back then, in like in 1980, 81, there
were some bad actors in ourindustry, and we need to put put
together or or establish bestpractices um and figure out a
way to protect our industry whensomebody comes along and does
(13:33):
something that's unethical andand or especially early on, a
lot of people didn't reallytrust this industry because they
didn't understand it.
And over the years we've beenable to build an amazing
industry and that now is is uhrecognized nationwide and a lot
of other countries, but it it'sit's been a really wonderful
(13:54):
thing to be a part of and towatch it become what it is today
from where it was in 1980.
Uh but more than anything else,people the guys that were in
that room wanted to figure out away to make sure that the
interests of the industry wereserved and that we were
(14:15):
protected from bad actors.
And and there's still I'm suresome of them out there today,
but with with 47 state statutesthat regulate our industry, and
we really don't need a federallegislation, we don't want it, I
don't think, either.
Because anytime you get thefederal government involved,
you're gonna have problems.
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
You know, we've gone back and forth on that issue.
Edwin thinks exactly like youdo.
I think that uh getting the 47states regulated was a win.
You know, talking about thefederal legislation and and how
that could affect us, both goodand bad, he feels the same way.
He's actually said the samething to me on this very show
about, you know what, it wouldcost a lot of money.
And at the end of the day, doyou really want the government
(14:55):
in your business?
At this point in time, we'reregulated very well.
We do a very good job at it onthe state level, and uh, we do
advocate this on a federal levelso that the people can
understand what's going on, butwe do get by very well.
I mean, it's almost a$10 billionindustry year after year after
year, based on the way we haveit regulated now.
Everything that's going on inNew York, notwithstanding, I
hope that we come out of thatunscathed.
(15:16):
But, you know, people don'treally understand the industry,
and I think that's the anotherhuge part of the advocacy side
of APRO is reminding people, notonly doing the legal aspect of
it, but actually reminding themof what we've been through and
obviously where we're going inthe future and what we can what
we can do together as anadvocacy group.
You know, how was how hard wasit?
(15:37):
Because you said that you camein with the RCA and then you
started doing it with Zenith.
How hard was it to get the otherlarge vendors involved, like
let's say uh Whirlpool and LG?
Was that was that a struggle toget them to understand exactly
what you understand today?
SPEAKER_00 (15:52):
Back at in the early 80s, for a while, or late 70s,
early 80s, RCA and Whirlpool hada marketing agreement, and most
dealers on the retail side, ifthey handled RCA and were in the
appliance business, they alsohad handled Whirlpool.
And bringing Whirlpool into thefold, they've been a great
supporter of the industry.
(16:13):
Even I, even though I don't sellthe product, they were and are a
great supporter of the industryback in the early 80s and
recognized the opportunity.
So Whirlpool for a long time,Whirlpool pretty much dominated
the rental side of the appliancebusiness.
And the folks like Crosleystarted recognizing the
opportunity and became prettygood size suppliers to the
(16:35):
industry.
But the cool thing that I'mseeing today, Pete, that rental
customers want the very samething that you and I want.
And we're renting to that.
I'll give you a good example.
I just sold one of my dealers uhhundred 100-inch televisions
(16:56):
that were shipping this monthfor rent to own.
Now, if you told me five yearsago that I would be selling a
hundred-inch television to arental dealer, I would have told
you you were nuts.
But it is a reality.
And and things like high-endSamsung refrigerators that that
have it's called called FamilyHub that has a screen on it, a
(17:18):
computer in it.
We're selling a lot of those.
And I would never have imaginedthat we'd be able to sell that
kind of product to arent-to-home customer.
But rent-to-home has become moreand more and more high-end than
than I ever imagined that itwould.
There's still a place forentry-level lead price product,
(17:39):
because that's in some casesthat's all somebody can afford.
But if we can find a way to puta rental rate on it, that rental
customer wants the very samething that you and I want.
They will, and the other thingthat that happens, and you you
know it as well as I do, thehigher end the product that you
put in a rental rentalcustomer's home, the better the
keep rate.
(17:59):
Because they got some moneyinvested in it, they're not
going to let it come back.
I mean, it's pretty cool, verycool, actually.
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
Well, you know, I'm glad that you said that because
Mr.
Bill French also also, becauseyou because you have been doing,
you have been a part of, notonly have you been a vendor for
so long, you've been a part ofApril as uh a couple of
different things, but right nowyou're on the vendor advisory
committee, is that correct?
That is correct.
I'm the vice chair.
And you've been doing and andyou've also been a liaison at
some certain points in time.
(18:28):
You've been a part of thisalmost from the get-go.
How important has the vendoradvisory committee been to April
since its its inception?
And when was it incepted?
SPEAKER_00 (18:39):
I think it's it's a partnership, obviously, with the
dealers that are on the on theinvolved in April and on the
board, but uh it it verydefinitely has been important to
have folks like myself and theother guys that have that have
been involved over the yearswith me from the vendor side.
When it comes down to what isneeded to make a convention
(19:00):
successful, for instance, whatare vendors April understands
this, and so does the TRIB groupalso understands it, that there
would not be these bigconventions if it were not for
vendor support and vendorsembracing April and TRIB.
And by being involved with them,little things come up like
carpeting and having carpetingin in the venue versus having to
(19:24):
rent it into.
There's a lot of little thingsthat have come into play that
have helped make theseconventions better by having
vendors, uh, a vendor advisorycommittee that has ideas about
we all want the same thing.
We all want to sell product, weall want, we want to sell it to
the dealer, we want our dealerto be successful with the
product.
And how we present that productis incredibly important at these
(19:48):
shows.
So having the vendor input intowhat goes into a show has been
very important.
SPEAKER_01 (19:56):
So you know, you mentioned trip and and there It
wasn't originally a trip.
Now I know that I see you at thetrib shows just as much as I see
at the APRO shows because Orworkis very, very involved.
And if you guys don't know, BillFrench is involved in just about
anything.
If you have it going on, you'regoing to see Bill there.
So what was what started thatcreated the ability for Trib to
(20:20):
be so important to the RTOindustry?
Did you play a part in that?
Did the vendors play a part inthat?
SPEAKER_00 (20:26):
I can't say that I played a part in that.
Norm Smith, the guy I mentionedearlier, that worked uh well, I
worked with at Zenith.
Um I was in charge of a regionof 17 states, but we put him in
place at Zenith after I gotthere to manage the and develop
the rental channel for Zenith.
And he was very instrumental inworking with, well, before
(20:50):
Dennis Shields, um, gosh, uhdrawn a blank.
I can see the guy's face rightnow.
John Blair?
John Blair.
He was instrumental in workingwith John and uh helping John
understand the value of puttingtogether vendor programs.
Whirlpool also worked reallywell with John Blair and put
together vendor programs thatoffered rebates and incentives
(21:14):
for buying the product.
An industry buying group, well,the biggest thing it's done is
just helped the smaller dealersget deals that they would never
get if it weren't for somebodylike Tribb and or like April,
but primarily Trib in that case.
Because if you're a member, youget the same price as a little
guy as the big guy gets, andputs you on a level playing
(21:34):
field.
So being a member of Trib or ofgood buying group, I think, is
for somebody especially that'sgot more than a tough store or
two, is essential to helping yoube competitive.
SPEAKER_01 (21:47):
Now, how advantageous has it been for
O'Rourke to be a part of TRIB ornationwide?
SPEAKER_00 (21:52):
Most definitely advantageous by by working with
them.
In fact, we're getting ready togo to our fall meetings with
TRIB and present our programsfor next year, but it's been by
them supporting us and endorsingus as a vendor, it's brought
dealers to us that we might nothave gotten.
And we've also got we've alsohelped them.
(22:13):
I've told more than one dealer,hey, if you only if you want to
be a success here, you need toget involved in TRIB and you
need to get involved in APRObecause TRIB helps you with your
buying, and APRO helps keep youin business.
SPEAKER_01 (22:26):
There you go.
I don't think I could have saidit any better than that.
That is absolutely the truth.
So, you know, you mentionedwarranty being one of the unique
things that happened uh thatcame out of the rent-to-owned
sector.
You know, hey, we we reallydon't want the warranty to start
when it lands because mostlikely it hasn't gone anywhere,
it hasn't done anything.
When we rented is where it wouldbe more beneficial for the
(22:49):
warranty to start because italso helps the customer and it
helps us.
We don't want to give it to themthree months after it already
started, has a one-year warrantyand they're already, they only
get nine months worth of it.
Is there anything else that youknow that came from rent to own
that made some of the vendorsrework how they've done
everything?
SPEAKER_00 (23:06):
Well, obviously the the product mix and things of
that nature have changed, but asa if you're really super
involved in rent to own, youneed to look at that business
and buy to support and be agreat supplier.
Here we we do everything at ourwork.
We do retail, we do premium, wedo military, we do rent to own.
(23:30):
Our mix for rent to own is quitea bit different than it is for
retail because in rent town,even though we do some high-end
product, we don't do the superhigh-end product that we do at
retail.
So if you're going to be areally good supplier to rent to
own, you need to understand thedealers' needs and what their
customers' needs are and buy tobe able to supply that on a
(23:52):
timely basis.
And we we do forecasting it.
Our folks in the field as wellas my we do forecasting based on
the uh the channel that we workin.
So there's forecasting that wedo that is specifically tied to
what needs to be done to supportthe rent-to-owned industry.
(24:14):
And it's a little bit differentthan retail, a premium, or even
military.
So the big business required,you need you need to understand
your dealers' needs and buy tosupply those needs.
SPEAKER_01 (24:25):
Absolutely.
Can you tell me what a customRTO vendor program looks like as
opposed to maybe a retailprogram?
What are some of the differenceson that?
SPEAKER_00 (24:33):
Primary differences are on the retail side, there's
a lot of a lot of programmingdone that um where you for
instance, you may, for aretailer, you do a kitchen
program that if you buy one toshow and one to go in all these
various SKUs that make up akitchen, you get some extra
(24:53):
discounts.
We have to tailor that a littlebit differently for rental than
we do for rent-to-own because umof the needs for somebody in a
for instance, rent-to-owned.
I can't tell you the last time Isold a dishwasher or an
over-the-range microwave, thingsof that nature.
Those things have to be lookedat harder for retail.
We don't even look at it forrent-to-owned.
(25:14):
So when we structure something,any kind of a program for
rental, we look at what if it'sa kitchen program, it may be a
refrigerator and a range.
Television, it may be atelevision and a sound bar or a
home theater system.
But you just have to kind oflook at the needs of what.
And we get a lot of input, butthe great thing is from our
(25:35):
customers, and they go, Bill, ifyou do something like this for
us, it would help us and itwould help your business.
So there's another key period toany business, and in particular
this one.
You have two ears for a reason.
The best people on the planet atdoing business are the best
listeners.
(25:56):
If you listen, your customerwill tell you what they want.
And then if you can deliver it,you become a valued supplier.
And uh I talk a lot, but I tryto listen more than I talk.
SPEAKER_01 (26:08):
Well, Bill, at this point in time, I mean, you have
so much knowledge and so muchexperience.
We've got to listen becauseyou've got a lot to say.
I mean, everything that you'resaying on here is definitely
something that I've been reallyinterested in hearing about.
What another thing that I'minterested in hearing about is
24 years ago, you decided tomake a change to O'Rourke, ORORC
Sales.
That's about 2021.
(26:30):
Am I right?
Is that when you came on top?
SPEAKER_00 (26:32):
Exactly right.
SPEAKER_01 (26:33):
So in 2021, what were you doing that made you
decide, you know what, Oork iswhere I want to be.
And you know, and then you climbyour way all the way up to being
vice president of Rent HomeSales.
Can you tell us a little bitabout how all that worked?
SPEAKER_00 (26:47):
Well, it's interesting how the good Lord
works, I'm telling you, becauseZenith had been bought out, and
I'd worked for them for aboutfive years.
LG had previously bought Zenithout of bankruptcy.
And I was working for LG as aVP.
And in their infinite wisdom,they decided they were going to
take the company down from abillion-dollar company to a$100
(27:11):
million company and rebuild it.
And in November of 2020, uh theycalled me in to corporate
headquarters in Glenview,Illinois, and said, Bill, we are
going to shut down all thebranches, and we want you to
stay on in your region, shut itdown, service, parts, sales,
(27:34):
close out your offices, and umbudget in order.
So of course that was a bigshock to me, and I was not happy
about that.
And they said, No, don't dothat.
(27:56):
We'll give you a severancepackage, pay you for an extra
year.
They put together a wholepackage, but I had to stay until
June 3, 2021.
And as luck would have it, inFebruary, the O'Rourks called me
and said, Hey, we would like tohire you.
They don't know all this stuffis going on with the Ed LG at
the time because I can't tellthem.
(28:16):
So I interviewed with them, madea deal, and said, Problem is I
can't go to work for you untilJuly the 1st.
And this was in February.
But I said, I'm excited to comeon board with you, but I can't
do it until July the 1st.
And they said, well, why not?
And I said, well, I have afederal employment agreement
with with LG that says I have tostay with them till June 30th
(28:43):
for a major bonus as well asinsurance and and pay for
another year.
Oh my goodness.
Anyway, they agreed to that.
And so I stayed, got my my thingdone with LG, came on board with
them July the 1st, and I wasreally hired by them to manage
the group business.
Nationwide, NATO.
(29:04):
Back then there was KeySouthwest.
There were several buying groupsthat I dealt with all of them,
and they were trying to figureout, oh, Rourke's were trying to
figure out how to get into thosegroups.
So we get that started, butabout six months in, Jeff
O'Rourke says, you know, you'vebeen involved in rent own, and
what do you think?
And I said, Well, there's a hugeopportunity there, and we're not
(29:25):
capitalizing on it.
He said, What do you think aboutshifting over and and you take
it over and you just run therent home business for us?
And I said, Well, I would lovethat.
Because it's I know there's anopportunity there, I know how to
do it, and I know a lot of thedealers already, so it's a it's
a natural fit for me.
So that's what happened.
(29:45):
And that first when I took thejob managing the rent own
channel, they'd done a millionand a half dollars in six
months.
Wow.
By the end of the year, we haddone about six and a half
million.
And we have grow we've grownfrom I can't, I'll never tell
anybody what our number is, butwe have grown from that point to
(30:10):
being the largest vendor otherthan Ashley Furniture in this
industry, period.
SPEAKER_01 (30:15):
Oh, I know it.
I know it.
Every time I go, the the L theuh the O Rourke booth seems to
get bigger and bigger andbigger.
You have a lot of amazing peoplethat work for you over there.
SPEAKER_00 (30:26):
We're very blessed.
We've assembled a really goodteam.
Uh I'm I'm probably gonna sounda little bit uh I'm not sure how
it sounds, but I believe I havethe best team around me uh in
the rental industry, and I alsohave the best management
supporting what we need to do inthe rental industry every day.
(30:48):
Um I mean, they're willing tomake if if we believe, if I can
present a plan to them thatmakes sense, they've never said
no in 24 years.
SPEAKER_01 (30:57):
Well, I mean, you know what you're doing,
especially with the history thatyou have.
I know Kevin, I know Felix, youguys do a great job over there.
You know, you were sayingsomething earlier, you know, the
the advocacy and you know, kindof how important it is, you
know, how do vendors support theApro events?
How how does it how do vendorssupport the legislative advocacy
(31:20):
or industry education?
How do you how do the vendors bea part of that?
How does it work and Bill Frenchbe a part of that?
SPEAKER_00 (31:26):
Well, number one, we I've done it for years, and I've
and I and I will do it again.
I'm gonna tentatively probablyretire at the end of next year.
I'm 81 years old now, I'm gonnahave to leave it sometime.
SPEAKER_01 (31:38):
You know what?
I can't imagine a day that BillFrench is not in rent to own.
SPEAKER_00 (31:42):
Well, Bill French can't imagine it either.
Because I love coming to workevery day.
I love dealing with my wholegoal every day is to try to help
anybody that I deal with or wedeal with, whether it's uh one
of our sales associates or acustomer, be more successful.
And if I can do that, then I'mthe guy who wins the most.
(32:06):
It's pretty easy and and andit's fulfilling.
But now as far as APRO, alegislative conference, I think
every vendor, every dealer,ought to be involved in that
legislative conference andexperience it to understand the
importance of APRO.
Because those folks on the hill,especially every couple of years
(32:29):
they roll over, most of themcan't spell rent on, let alone
understand what we do.
So to go in and sit down andsay, hey, we're not here looking
for a bill, we're not herelooking for anything.
We just want to explain to you,make sure you understand what
we're doing, so that if anythingcomes up, you can yell at us and
help us uh work our way throughanything that might come along.
(32:50):
It's just uh uh it maybe it getsto where when you go in these,
especially uh if you've done itin a while, you go from office,
you'll see the same face, butthey may be working for a
different representative or adifferent senator, but they
remember you because ofsomething you said to them last
year, the year before.
(33:11):
But it's very, very, verycrucial that the people that
enjoy the fruits of thisindustry, whether it be a
supplier or or a rent-to-owneddealer, they need to be involved
in APRO because without APRO,you might not have a business.
SPEAKER_01 (33:28):
When you start when when did you start going to the
to the legislative conferencefor April?
SPEAKER_00 (33:34):
Uh I actually because prior to coming to work
for O'Rourke, we have people ina rental channel at LG that
would do that.
But as soon as I came to workfor O'Rourke, that first year,
probably 20 2021, maybe 2022, Istarted going to the legislative
conference.
SPEAKER_01 (33:53):
And and I said is wait, is that 20 you said 2021
or 2022 or 2001 and 2002?
Oh 2001, 2001, 2002.
SPEAKER_00 (34:02):
I'm sorry.
My bad, Pete.
Thank you for correcting me.
No, it's probably 2001, 2002,and then oh about three or four
years in, uh there was a guynamed Ellison Crider that was a
uh a dealer in South Texas thatwas the head of the vendor
advisory committee.
(34:22):
And he wanted to, he was gettinginto his own business.
So he and Bill Keese called meand said, Hey, we'd like for you
to get on the vendor advisorycommittee and uh and become the
vice chair.
And I said, Well, how do I dothat?
They said, Well, you have to bevoted in, but if you say you'll
do it, I guarantee you you'llget voted in.
(34:42):
So I did, and the rest ishistory.
SPEAKER_01 (34:46):
Now, in Texas, there was the Henry B.
Gonzalez thing where, you know,it was a legislator who was
trying to end what you know,what we know as rent to own.
When that was happening, wherewere you as a part of a part of
this?
Were you able to take part insome of what happened?
Did you know about what wasgoing on at that particular time
when they were trying tobasically end rent to own as we
(35:07):
know it?
SPEAKER_00 (35:08):
I wasn't actively involved in that effort, but I
was very much aware of it.
So no, I can't take any creditfor that.
But I the Henry B.
Gonzalez, it's kind of ironicthat over the years we've had
rent-to-own conventions in theHenry B.
Gonzalez Convention Center.
SPEAKER_01 (35:23):
We sure have.
SPEAKER_00 (35:24):
And he's the very guy who tried to put us out of
business.
SPEAKER_01 (35:27):
You know, talk about ironic, right?
And then and then and then we goin there and have more successes
year after year after year afteryear after that.
So like how would you describethe mutual dependency that
rent-to-owned dealers have withtheir vendors?
SPEAKER_00 (35:42):
I'm not sure how to explain that, other than to say
this business is very, very,very much relationship-driven.
If you're going to be successfulin this business as a vendor,
you you need to get acquaintedwith the people you're doing
business with, learn about whothey are, what they're about.
(36:04):
In a lot of cases, most of a lotof these people, I know their
kids, I know their grandkids,um, and am genuinely interested
in their lives and what they do.
And I think that people whenyou're dealing with people, they
can sense whether you're sincereor not, whether you care about
them or not, or whether you'rejust trying to get an order.
(36:27):
I'm never just trying to get anorder.
I'm trying to develop a r arelationship that is mutually
beneficial, that says anythingyou need, Mr.
Dealer, if I can help you, Iwill.
And that that may even mean thatI may not sell you anything.
It may mean when I send you inanother direction because I
don't have what you need, butI'll try to help you any way I
(36:49):
can.
Hopefully I have something I canhelp you with, but if I don't,
I'll still try to help you.
You got to care about people,you got to care about long-term
relationships.
If you love it's it's amazing,Pete.
If you love people, you get thatlove back.
And it's just the way I live mylife.
SPEAKER_01 (37:08):
I can tell, I could tell that, Bill.
That's the way that's the wayyou do it.
That's the way you've alwaysbeen.
When you go back to the pointwhere we're talking about you're
selling RCA TVs to therent-owned industry, and
Whirlpool was involved a littlebit in front.
What was the progression?
You said you know, you did TVsfirst, you did the RCA TVs
first, and we're talking aboutearly 70s.
(37:30):
What was the progression ofinventory after that that you
dealt with?
Obviously, it was TVs first.
Was it appliance second or wasit anything else second?
What came through?
SPEAKER_00 (37:39):
In the 70s, it started out with the big cellar
in the rental own rent-to-ownedindustry was 19-inch black and
white televisions to begin with.
And that evolved into coloredtelevision in the early late
60s, early 70s.
And obviously lead laundry withwashers and dryers.
(37:59):
Um from my perspective, I'dnever I've never done a lot in
furniture, but I've doneeverything you can in TV andor
appliances.
But the evolution is it startedout even when the rent-to-owned
dealer's mentality was I gottahave the cheapest TV I can get
so I can rent it.
Probably got to have thecheapest washer and dryer that I
(38:20):
can acquire so I can rent it.
But over time, obviously thathas evolved a little bit.
It it keeps changing, and eventoday it keeps changing because
today there's more high-endproduct done.
Um we'll give you where we werethen.
Back then we the other thing wedid a lot of, and it was back in
the early days was was bigstereos that had lights, big old
(38:46):
speakers that there was nothingbehind the speaker grill, but it
it looked impressive.
And in some cases sounded okay,but not not great.
But we did a lot of that kind ofstuff.
Those things have all evolved,just like in on the retail side
over the over the years.
And a good example today that wedidn't even have back then, our
(39:08):
fastest growing category ofproduct is gaming towers and
gaming systems, like PS5s,Xboxes, uh, that kind of
product, as well as gamingtowers and monitors.
That category is surpassingtelevision in volume because you
rent a gaming tower and amonitor, that's that's in the
(39:32):
same volume as renting like375-inch TVs today.
I mean, it's the dynamic haschanged in in terms of what our
dealers are are really rentingand what they want.
Television is still a big partof our business, but it's not
the biggest part anymore.
It's part of it.
Twenty one years, twenty fiveyears ago when I started here
(39:55):
twenty four, television drovethe drove the bus for us for
many years.
As being the highest volumeproduct.
That's now, it's still there andit's still viable, but because
prices have come down so muchand new products have come to
the forefront, they're notnearly as impactful for us in
(40:15):
terms of volume and what we do.
But we don't want to turn any ofthat down because that business
is still there.
It's just changed.
SPEAKER_01 (40:24):
Now the tariff situation is something that a
lot of people talk about.
You know, they say, oh, youknow, tariffs are going to
change the world uh in theUnited States.
You know, it's going to changeeverything if it's not going to
be the same.
You know, tariffs are going tomake a lot of things uh more
expensive to get, harder to buy.
As you've gone through thegenerations of what you've sold,
you know, going from one productto the next product to the next
(40:44):
product, has there anything, hasthere been anything like a
tariff uh in the back, you know,in the back end and years ago
that kind of put a strain onsome of your dealers to be able
to purchase or some of you knowwhat you had to be able to say
this is a good product, but theprice went up for whatever
reason, whether it bemanufacturing costs, shipping
costs, anything like that?
SPEAKER_00 (41:05):
Well, but going back early on, all of our products
pretty much we sold or rent tohome back in the 70s were
manufactured in the UnitedStates.
Appliances, television, RCA wasto manufacture plants all over
the all over the country,Bloomington, Indiana,
Indianapolis.
They had cabinet plants over inthe Carolinas, but Zenith at
(41:27):
that time the same, Magnavox,and the names have changed.
A lot of the names that werewere big in our industry 50
years ago don't even existtoday.
A good example is Zenith.
When I got in this business,over 50% of the television
business was done by RCA andZenith.
(41:48):
They pretty much split it downthe middle.
And then you had Magnavox andMotorola and Sylvania, different
brands that Admiral did a littlebusiness, but over half the
business was with two brands.
And also back then, Whirlpooland GE were over fifty percent
of the business in appliances.
(42:10):
Now that's changed dramaticallyover the years.
Um with with the changes in theway of but the the changes that
that had some effect whileliving through that was
manufacturing moving out of theU.S.
to either Mexico or the Orient,China, Taiwan, Vietnam, those
(42:30):
things changed the way we dobusiness.
Lead times changed because allof a sudden, well, it wouldn't
say all of a sudden, but youwent from having product
manufactured here that wasmanufactured in a plant, put on
a truck and delivered to yourwarehouse, and now it's
manufactured in a plant, put ona boat that takes six, eight
(42:52):
weeks to get here.
So the way you plan yourbusiness had to change with the
way the manufacturing was done.
So that changed the way we didwe did.
We had to look at ourforecasting, look at our needs,
and we had to get better atplanning our business because
the plants were no longer in theU.S.
It was it was a differentbusiness.
(43:13):
And it was different.
SPEAKER_01 (43:15):
It seems like you could definitely change the
aspect of it, you know, whenyou're talking about a week lead
time to six-week lead time.
So, you know, as a in in so ourwork is a distributor, correct?
Yes.
So basically, the the the roleof a distributor is to get all
these products in and then shipfrom the warehouses here after
(43:36):
they've already already come.
Is that correct?
That's correct.
Now, now that you have thatability because we're storing it
here, it's been placed, that'swhat the cycles you're talking
about.
We have to know what probably isgoing to sell within the next
six to eight weeks.
We've got to put that order, itcomes in, and then we we sell it
early on.
So when it comes to new productthat are coming in, something
(43:57):
that you know, uh a new idea, anew stereo, a new computer, how
far out do you have to order itbefore you actually have that
product in your distributioncycle?
SPEAKER_00 (44:07):
Depends upon what it is, and if it's a new product,
I'll give you a good example.
I mentioned gaming towers is asone of our bigger, fastest
growing categories for us.
We developed Skytech as ourgo-to brand in gaming towers,
and we were looking at a way todo that, and we looked at
traditional manufacturers, andtheir stuff wasn't all that cool
(44:29):
looking.
Plus, they they were not toosure about rent to own, just
like folks at a TV businessweren't 50 years ago.
Well, how do you know this isgoing to work?
Well, we know it's gonna work.
But anyway, we found a supplierin Skytech, and Jane R.
Doan, who's our vice presidentin charge of that area of
procuring product, met with him.
He sat down with their engineersand literally designed what we
(44:53):
wanted in a gaming tower withlights, the fan, the features
that we wanted in a gamingtower, and designed what he
believed, and he's been dead ordead right on it, would work for
rent to own.
Our first order, a pallet oftowers, is 18 pieces.
Our first order was 18 piecesfive years ago, and they were
(45:16):
sold before we ever got them.
Last year, I can't give you anumber, but we sold many, many,
many thousands of those gamingtowers.
But when you got a new productand you know what's gonna do and
how it's gonna develop,obviously you've got to have a
little caution and try to figureit out, but um been very
(45:37):
successful with it.
Um but the lead times thereagain, that product is is
assembled and put together herein the States, but a lot of the
chips and a lot of thecomponents come from the China
or Vietnam, Taiwan, someplaceacross the water.
So forecasting there again,you've got to look at lead
(45:59):
times, and you know, you'relooking six, eight, some cases
three months out from the whenyou decide you're gonna do
something until you actually getthat finished product in your
barn shipped to a dealer.
So the planning side of thisbusiness has gotten more
difficult, but also with uhprogramming and computers and
(46:22):
and the way we can uh managedata, it's not as difficult
maybe as it sounds.
Because we got a lot ofinformation at our fingertips to
help us manage that kind ofthing.
SPEAKER_01 (46:34):
Not as difficult as it used to be, right?
Now that AI is involved and haveall these uh computer cycles.
So looking back on your careerfrom like the 1970s to today,
what is one thing about thisindustry that still surprises
you?
SPEAKER_00 (46:49):
Probably more than anything else, I would say,
Pete, is is the great thing.
Is how much it changes from oneyear to the next in terms of
what we're selling, what ourwhat our customers want, what
they need.
I mean, you got you got dealersrenting tires, you got dealers
renting.
Somebody told me ten years agoI'd be selling purses that
(47:13):
people would rent, I would havetold them you were crazy.
But we do a lot of just thethings that, especially in the
rent-to-own industry, theproducts that people are willing
to rent because they have adesire for it.
And that's the other thing Ithink too, is a lot of these
products that we sell to ourdealers and they rent are kind
(47:37):
of status symbols for theircustomer, whether it be a big
television or a Michael Coorspurse or the refrigerator, the
family hub refrigerator that hasa computer in it and a screen.
I think a lot of cases those arenot only they they fill a need,
but they also are somewhat of astatus symbol for the family
(47:58):
that's doing it.
SPEAKER_01 (48:00):
Well, I mean, you you've you've I think you've
nailed it on the head.
When you walk into somebody'shouse and you're going, oh,
you're, you know, you're arent-to-one customer, but oh my
God, look at the 100-inch TV.
Oh my God, look at you know,that custom-built rig that you
have over there that can playthe AAA games uh that are coming
out in today's world, and youknow, 4K, 8K, and everything
thereof.
(48:20):
Or, you know, they go to they goto get a drink out of the fridge
and it's just something out ofthis world.
I agree with you 100%.
It's not what it used to be.
Uh, and nowadays people arewilling to pay whatever they
need to in order to get whatthey want.
And it's not always a needbecause you obviously have the
needs.
I mean, that's literally whatthis business was built on the
people who have needs who don'thave the ability.
(48:41):
But then it's also transitionedto, well, this is a want, and I
want this.
I think it's a great idea, but Iwant to have the larger TV.
I want to have the faster gamingcomputer.
I want to have, you know, theshiny stereo, whether it makes
light, you know, whether it haslights or not, you know, it's
it's also turned into a choice.
This is what I can have, butthis is also what I want.
(49:03):
And how do we marry thosetogether?
SPEAKER_00 (49:04):
One of the best keep rate products that we sell to
the rent-town industry is agaming tower or a PS5, something
to do with gaming.
None of those are needs.
Those are nothing more thanwants.
But the keep rate there isbetter than it is on, they might
give up their kids' buckbitsbefore they give up their gaming
(49:25):
system.
unknown (49:26):
I hope.
SPEAKER_01 (49:26):
But you might exactly be right.
Well, I gotta ask you, you know,as we wind down, what do you
want people to remember aboutthe vendors who helped build
rent to own?
SPEAKER_00 (49:37):
As much as anything that anybody, if you're a dealer
or if you're a vendor, the goalis looking at it from either
side, is you want a partner.
You develop a partnership thatis mutually beneficial, and if
you care about one another,things are gonna work every day.
(49:58):
But but you gotta care, yougotta you gotta be sensitive to
the needs in any businessrelationship.
It has to be win win.
The vendor has to win, thedealer has to win.
And and if as a vendor you feellike, or when you're renting a
(50:19):
customer, if you feel like, ohman, I won that one, I took
advantage of that person, in thelong run, you're going to lose.
You need for whomever you'redealing with to feel like you
may be winning, but they alsohave to feel like they are
winning, and you need to feellike they are winning.
You both have to win.
If you do that, and prettysimple, don't ever make a
(50:44):
commitment that you can't keep.
You're not sure of your thatyou're able to keep.
Always, always, if you alwayslook after the customer's needs
first, you're always going towin.
SPEAKER_01 (50:55):
Well, this is a relationship business, right?
I mean, 100% and we we havebuilt and we live by the
relationships that we've built,whether you're coming up from
the from the 70s, like like Mr.
Bill French has, the the one andonly who has bred it up through
the decades, whether you'recoming into it now, it's about
based on the relationship andthe builds, the ability to, you
know, nurture that relationship.
(51:16):
And you know, I do what I sayI'm gonna do, you do what you
say you're gonna do, andeverybody be up front because
not everybody's perfect andthings happen, but let's be up
front and always work on ourobligations and make it happen.
Uh Bill, I can't tell you howimportant it is to have you on
the Legends series, to do someof the things that you've done
throughout all the years, to beable to re recount some of the
things that you've been able tobe a part of and work on and do.
(51:40):
It has absolutely been justamazing to talk with you.
I'm so glad that you've been onhere 24 years of our work, 54
years in the rent-to-ownedindustry.
It doesn't get much better thanthat.
I mean, I think Bill Frenchknows just about everything
there is to know on your side ofthe fence.
Guys, I want to tell you Iappreciate you joining us for
the Legends series.
It has been so fun being able tospeak to some of these legends
(52:01):
and kind of learn a lot aboutthe rent-to-one industry and
what they've poured into it, theimportance they've had.
If you have any questions,please reach out to the uh to
the podcast.
It's Pete at the RTOShowpodcast.com.
If you have any questions forBill, reach out, send me an
email, and I will make sure thathe gets an answer for you
because I'm sure there are a lotmore things that you want to
know that I didn't even get toyet.
Want to tell you if you want tolook us up, we are on Facebook,
(52:24):
Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTubewhere you're gonna see this.
Please send me a DM if you haveany questions.
Make sure you subscribe andlike.
You can also go to the websiteat www.thertoshowpodcast.com,
buy some squag.
You can also support the show onthere.
Bill, I appreciate you beinghere.
I loved everything.
I love it so much.
I hate to see that there mightbe an end to this, but I'm gonna
(52:45):
tell you guys as long as Bill isaround, I will be around.
Uh, and we're gonna be lookingforward to that.
And if you have a party, Bill,you've got to invite me because
we're gonna have one heck of aretirement party.
But I will tell you guys asalways, thank you for being here
and make sure that you get yourcollections low to get your
sales high.
Have a great one.
Thank you, Pete.
(53:05):
Hey everyone, it's Pete Chaohere from the RTO Show Podcast,
and I want to tell you about acompany that's making a real
difference in the rent-to-ownedspace.
WoW brands.
I've seen firsthand how theyapproach marketing.
Let me tell you, it's not justabout addicts.
WoW brands build completedigital ecosystems designed
specifically for therent-to-owned industry.
Their e-commerce and leadgeneration strategies are built
(53:27):
to bring qualified leaders.
Did I mention that they areactively working with the
rent-owned industry while alsobeing members of April and Trip?
These folks are passionate aboutit.
They don't just slap somethingtogether.
They design, build, and scalethe kind of digital retail tools
your business needs.
Your customers actually want.
So if you're serious aboutgrowing, reach out to WoWBrands
(53:49):
at Wildbrands.com.
I trust it, and I think you willtoo.
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