Inside LegCon 2026: How APRO Is Protecting the Future of Rent to Own

Send us Fan Mail

What happens when the rent to own industry stops reacting and starts leading the conversation in Washington, D.C.?

In this episode of The RTO Show Podcast, Pete Shau sits down with Charles Smitherman and Amberlee Maya to break down why APRO’s LegCon 2026 became one of the most important advocacy events in recent rent to own history. 

From legislative advocacy and consumer protection to virtual rent to own growth and industry storytelling, this conversation explains how rent to own leaders are shaping the future of the RTO transaction before outside groups define it for them.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why legislative advocacy is critical for protecting the rent to own transaction and preventing harmful federal overreach
• How APRO’s LegCon 2026 attracted more than 100 attendees, including 33 first time advocates from across the rent to own industry
• The real reason lawmakers and legislative staff often misunderstand rent to own and how industry leaders are changing that narrative
• How virtual rent to own, shed rental businesses, tire and wheel providers, and traditional RTO operators are working together under one industry voice
• What the New York legislative battle reveals about proactive advocacy, consumer protection policy, and the future of lease purchase regulation

Episode Highlights:

• 03:04 – Why LegCon 2026 became one of APRO’s strongest advocacy events in years
• 05:06 – How podcasts, newsletters, AI visibility, and digital communication are expanding the reach of the rent to own industry
• 07:25 – Why bringing 33 first time attendees to Capitol Hill was a major milestone for APRO advocacy
• 14:17 – The conversation with CFPB Deputy Director Jeff Gradler and what it means for the future of RTO regulation
• 20:26 – What advocacy meetings with legislators actually look like behind closed doors
• 36:19 – How virtual rent to own companies like Acima, Progressive, and Snap Finance are expanding the lease purchase market
• 51:24 – The growing concern around New York Senate Bill 1726 and Assembly Bill 4918
• 59:24 – The one message Charles Smitherman and Amberlee Maya want every RTO dealer to hear before LegCon 2027

Meet the Guests:

Charles Smitherman is the CEO of APRO and a leading advocate for the rent to own industry. He has helped shape legislative strategy, industry education, and state level regulatory efforts across the lease purchase sector. 

Amberlee Maya is APRO’s Director of Marketing and Communications and plays a major role in expanding industry visibility, advocacy messaging, and digital communication efforts for the modern rent to own industry. 

Tools, Frameworks, or Strategies Mentioned:

• APRO Legislative Conference (LegCon)
•  APRO Legislative Fellows Program
•  Generative Engine Optimization for the RTO industry
•  APRO Code of Ethics and self regulation initiatives
•  State level lease purchase regulation frameworks
•  Virtual Rent to Own (VRTO) expansion strategy

Closing Insight:

“If we are not out there defining ourselves, someone else will.”

Support the show

Join The RTO Newsletter: https://bit.ly/RTOPODnewsletter

Subscribe on Apple: https://apple.co/4wpbUqF

Subscribe on Spotify: https://bit.ly/RTOPODspotify

Learn More About Sponsorship: https://bit.ly/RTOPODsponsor

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_02 (00:07):
Hello and welcome to the RTO show.
I'm your host, Pete Shao.
Listen, I'm talking to you todaywith my producer Anthony.
We want to talk to you a littlebit about what's going on in DC.
Before we do, want you guys toknow only half of you are that
are listening to me right now,you guys aren't subscribed.
You need to hit that subscribebutton, hit that little bell,
subscribe.
You need to know what's goingon, especially with events like

(00:29):
this that we're going to betalking about today.
I've got Erly Maya on here.
Unbelievable.
She actually decided to show uptoday.
First time so excited.
And a regular who's probablygoing to be the co-host of the
show pretty soon, CharlesSmitherman of Apro.
Listen, guys, it's great to seeyou.
Great to talk to you.
I want you guys to know rightnow, if you guys like the
content like they do, please goon there, make sure that you

(00:52):
leave a review, whether it'sSpotify, whether it's Apple
Podcasts, leave a review.
That way Amber Lee and Charlesknow that you love them and you
want to see them again, right?
All right.
Listen, guys, we are going totalk about LedgeCon 2026.
This is the legislativeconference that we do in DC.
Now, some of you listening haveprobably seen this before, but
this one was a huge event.

(01:13):
I think Charles invited all ofhis family and friends, and then
Amber Lee got on there and madeit happen.
We had probably the best, andthis, I actually, hands down,
was probably one of the bestevents I've had this year.
I actually enjoyed it immensely.
Um, not only that, it was agreat venue, but we'll talk
about that a little bit.
First off, Charles, Mr.
PhD himself, JD, uh, the CEO ofApril, you're doing an amazing

(01:35):
job.
Every time that I go to a newevent, I want to tell you, man,
there's people out there thatare saying this is the new wave.
And I think Amberly has a lot todo with that.
So it's good to have you guyson.
Talk to me a little bit about,you know, what you guys saw this
year.
I mean, talk to me a little bitabout LedgeCon 2026, the most
amazing one we've had yet.

SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
Uh yeah, thanks, Pete, for having uh us on the
show at again.

SPEAKER_02 (01:58):
Again, listen, I I wish I wish I could have you
guys on all the time.
We can do like a four-way wecould do like a four-way thing
on top.
It's awesome.
But yeah, no, seriously, I mean,this event was not only better,
it was really put together.
And I really want to say, like,there was several people that
I've seen year after year thathave been to this that said this
was probably the best time thatthey've had.
And there's a lot of things thatI want to get into because there

(02:20):
were people that I didn't knowwere there.
There were different in part ofthe industry that I didn't know
that were there.
So we'll talk about that.
Great people that I saw.
I think we had a heartfeltdiscussion at the end, the
debrief dinner, but we'll gointo, you know, really as far as
LedgeCon goes, this Ledge Conwas different.
What did you see when you werewhen you were getting this
together?
And and how did we get thistogether this year that made

(02:42):
such a big difference?

SPEAKER_01 (02:43):
Uh well, maybe a few things.
I think one, we're it's great tohear that uh that kind of
feedback.
You always want to every yearwe're hoping to be better than
the last one.
Um, and so we really do take thefeedback, take um uh, you know,
the um the input that we get uhon board, and we're we're
constantly trying to make itbetter.
So um I would agree.

(03:04):
I think this was uh just a greatone.
It went really well, the venuewas good.
Um, but a number of things wereally did that was had a lot of
intentionality of um we had seta goal, we wanted to get 100
people to attend.
Um, and it's been a long timesince we've had that many people
show up.
And in fact, um uh you'd have togo past like recent memory to to

(03:29):
find when we've had a hundredbefore.
Uh and so that was uh uh and andat that point I think we were
actually pushing federallegislation there.
So it was uh there was a hugerallying call uh to get people
there.
Um but with that we you know wehad a uh set that goal for a
hundred.
Uh we we also we're in our thirditeration of the uh legislative

(03:50):
fellows program, uh which was acontinued to be a big success as
we we train our futuregeneration of advocates and they
can learn from our our legends,our experienced people that have
been doing this for a long time,and they can go walk the halls
with them and listen to see howthat they do it.
Uh so I think it's really a fewof those things.

(04:10):
Uh our government relationscommittee is just so uh active.
Uh it's it's the modelcommittee.
I would put that up against anycommittee of any other
association about how well thatone is run and how focused it is
on doing these things.
And so when you've got that kindof support coming from the
board, you've got the support ofthe committee, that leadership,
and then you've got uh just theamazing staff we've got at APRO,

(04:34):
with Amberly being just a hugepart of showing and
demonstrating everything that wedo.
So uh just everything kind ofcoming together, and then I
think our focus on we want to doit better.
And so this is the best yearuntil the next one is the way we
kind of approach things.

SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
Well, you guys got to understand the way this came
together, there was a lot thathappened before this this year.
So LedgeCon being ourlegislative conference, we get
together in DC and everybodyadvocates for the industry.
As we're doing that, and whenthis all culminates throughout
the year, we had a couple ofthings that happen.
Number one, we're talking aboutit as much as we can on the
podcast, right?
We want to get people out there,we want them to get them to

(05:11):
understand what we do, why we doit, and why it matters so much.
Then there was a book, The ArtsHere Revolution, that comes out
by Charles Smith herman himselfand Wild Brands director Ryan
Krass, right?
To put this together becausethis is a history of what we
have going on in the industry.
On top of that, I've got thisnew forge messaging situation
that that came out, which is nowlike it's it's starting to get

(05:34):
full steam.
I'm getting messages on that.
People are kind of understandingthat's where the April voices
are, that's where the RTOlegends are.
And I can't say that this didn'tall happen with Amberly being
there somewhere.
This is like a this ecosystemthat all comes together.
How did this Amberly, you're theyou you are the director of
marketing and communications,and I want to say, by the way,

(05:54):
you're doing an amazing job.
How did all this come together?
Like, were you a part of that?
And then and what was the ideato make this streamline and work
to get all these?
I mean, a hundred people beenthe best in years.
That's not that's not a smallfeat.
And to say that I don't I don'tthink that we're gonna be able
to hold it down next year.
I think we're gonna be way overa hundred next year.
I mean, because the thing is themore people that come, the more

(06:16):
people know about it.
And it was a lot of people thatcame first time this year.
Again, how long we've been doingthis almost 25.
Well, I don't know, Shannon, 23,24, 20, so many years.
But the thing is that you know,in doing that, they get to tell
people who they know, this iswhat I got to do, this is what I
got to be a part of, this is theadvocacy effort that we were
doing.

(06:36):
And really, like when you haveall that that basically that
ecosystem to come together, isthat a good reason why we hit
those numbers this year?

SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
Yeah, I mean, the I think the fellow part is a big
part of it, just because wehave, you know, we had I think
33 new people this year betweenthe fellowships, the advocacy
partners, and then additional uhfirst timers that wanted to come
and have their voice be heardtoo.
So um, you know, you've got thelike like you said during the D
Brief dinner, you talked aboutthe you know, the legends
walking alongside the the newpeople and getting um you know

(07:07):
learning from each other.
Um everybody can learn up andlearn down, and it's just a a
great opportunity to make yourvoice heard.

SPEAKER_02 (07:15):
So, Charles, talking about success, when we say the
word 33, there are 33 newfirst-time attendees that showed
up this year, right?
That is a big number.
A third of us were brand new towhat's going on.
Does that say that we're gettingthe message across and we're
doing what we need to do to getthe LEGCON thought, the advocacy
out there?
I mean, is it is is this acheckered flag to say, yeah,

(07:36):
we're we're getting there.
We beat this one, next one wegot to do better.

SPEAKER_01 (07:40):
Yeah, I think that that's really where the growth
is happening.
I mean, we we we do a thing atthe debrief dinner uh where we
do recognition where we give youknow the we give pins for to
people that have have come for acertain number of years.
We recognize those that havebeen coming for five years, ten
years, fifteen.
We had a couple of you know, 20uh or two people in the lead

(08:01):
that right at 23.
Well, I think Shannon took it at24 this year, maybe 25 or
whatever that number is.

SPEAKER_02 (08:07):
24.

SPEAKER_01 (08:08):
You know, we have a core group that that believes in
this, and they've been doingthis for a long time, and they
come back every year.
People like Shannon Strong withwith his 24 years, people like
Larry Carico 23 years, BradDennison's 22 years.
We've got this core group,they're going to come because
they know and understand it andthey believe it.
Um and I think it is one ofthose conferences or an events

(08:30):
that if you come once, you youbuy into it, you understand what
we're trying to talk about, whatuh Amberly's putting out with
communications.
It comes across and youunderstand when you get there.
And so a key to continue to one,sustain this because they're you

(08:50):
know, uh our industry is gettingolder when you know the people
that have been coming for a longtime uh are not gonna be able to
come forever.
And so we need those new peopleto be coming in and and
eventually becoming theexperienced people.
And so that's a core part ofwhat we're doing.
And I'd say sustainability is isthe key on that um in trying to

(09:12):
do that.
So yeah, having a a a third ofour participants brand new first
time is pretty incredible.
Uh because it it's a big ask.
I mean, I we get it.
It's an ask to come to DC, taketime out of your schedule, uh
travel in the middle of theweek, because we need to be up
there on a Wednesday or Thursdayto meet with our um
congressional members.
And um, you know, it it it is auh it is a thing.

(09:35):
And so uh we we get that, uh,but it's also one I think once
you do it once, it's you want togo back.

SPEAKER_02 (09:43):
Well, it I I gotta say, the first time I was
hooked, and I you know I plan onbeing back every year.
And you know, and really talkingabout some of the things that
the ecosystem produced on top of33 people, I'm getting regular,
you know, newsletters everysingle week.
I get one from April that says,hey, this is what's going on in
the RTO world.
I get one from Charles now.
Dr.
Charles Smithman sends somethingout.

(10:04):
Listen, not only is he atriathlon athlete, he has some
good words to say.
I get that all the time.
Is that part of creating theecosystem and letting people
know what's going on and saying,hey, this is part of what we do,
the advocacy, getting there?
And now that you have these waysto to like that this constant
information that's coming out,how well is that being received
as you've seen it?

SPEAKER_00 (10:24):
Well, I mean, in the last uh seven, eight months or
so, we've we've doubled ourcontent at at a minimum.
We've at least doubled it.
So um, you know, a lot of thatis has to do with our our uh
generative engine optimizationuh AI uh platform that we're
doing, but um trying to get themessage out there so that you
know, when the legislators areout there trying to Google us

(10:45):
and figure out what's going onor go to Chat GPT or any of the
other platforms that they getthe truth about the industry and
what what we're doing.
Um so that's been a big part ofthat.
And then it it also just helpsthe members as well see what
we're doing and um you know thatwe're taking active steps to to
improve the industry and makesure that our voices are heard.
So I think it encourages them towant to be a part of it.

(11:08):
Um and specifically the youngergeneration, the newer
generation's excited to see it.

SPEAKER_02 (11:13):
Um but I've seen I've seen the footprint of April
grow online.
I mean, it's it's growntremendously um to being
something that was poly, youknow, I want to say a little
passive to now it's there.
It's it's something that you seeall the time.
It's been a progressive markthat I think has really made a
difference.
Also, the fact that when we havea third of the people that
weren't there at any time beforeshow up now, I think it's really

(11:36):
getting the message out.
And I love that because this isthe opportunity for you, whoever
you are out there, to understandthat this is open to you.
If you work for a dealer or avendor and you want to go to
this, please contact us atrtohq.org and make sure that
like you have the information infront of you.
Come to this event.
You will not be the sameafterwards.

(11:56):
I wasn't, and I can tell youright now I enjoyed that.
But I want to get into a littlebit.
Can you talk to me a little bitabout?
So if I'm listening for thefirst time, there are 33 new
people out there.
We want to expand out.
What does a day in Legcon looklike?
So there is a there's a dinnerbeforehand, right?
There's a dinner the day before.
We kind of get together, we kindof talk to each other a little
bit, you get to meet your team,see what's going on.

(12:17):
But now it's the day of.
So we started with a really bigheavy hitter in the morning, and
then we kind of took our day allthe way through the Capitol.
We're literally, Anthony, wemissed you.
We were walking on the steps ofDC.
I mean, this is monumental,especially to people who've
never done this before.
Can Charles, can you walk methrough how that day gets set up
and like the importance why weset it up that way?

(12:38):
And more off, who was it that wetalked to first thing in the
morning?

SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
Well, uh it's a it's a busy day.
Uh you're going to get yoursteps in when you when you go.
Um, and so we we we spend a aconsiderable amount of time
setting up meetings.
Uh that's one thing that I thinkwe're doing now that uh has
really made this process a loteasier than compared to five,
ten years ago when we left thatto the member.

(13:02):
So the ask was not just to cometo DC, but setting up your own
meetings too.
Uh, we're taking that that offof um off your plate.
Now, we want people to set upmeetings uh if you have a
personal relationship or youknow, uh some type of
relationship with your member,uh, but we're really taking a
lot of that on.
Uh Lisa Kravenhoft, our directorof the vets, uh, does an

(13:24):
absolutely incredible job ofwith that.
Uh I can tell you I I've donefly-in days like this with other
industries.
I mean, it's not just the youknow, because I've got this
patch right here on my chest.
So uh I'm not just saying that.
It this we do it better uh thanthan anything I've ever been a
part of.
Uh and Lisa is a big part ofthat and making that happen.

(13:47):
Um so we typically, you know, webring everybody in, we have the
the reception the night before.
It's a a lot of this conferencereally is about networking with
the group.
Uh we we limit the number ofvendors that come in.
You have to sponsor uh to be apart of it on the vendor side.
And so that does limit thenumber of uh uh of our associate

(14:08):
members that get to come.
Uh, but then we have um it'sjust a good networking the night
before, uh getting us ready forfor the next day.
Uh we do a breakfast.
We we like to bring a keynotespeaker in, someone that works,
uh whether it's a legislator, uhsomeone uh a regulator, uh,
which is what we had this yearwith the deputy director from

(14:29):
the uh Consumer FinancialProtection Bureau, uh Jeff
Gradler.
Um so we had our breakfast andthen we went over, took a photo
at the Capitol.
I've got I think I've got acouple of those from years past
behind me.
There they are.

SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
I just want you to know I'm somewhere in there.
Not that you can find me withouta magnifying glass, but in case
you're looking, Anthony, I'mright there to the right behind
the third person.
So we we we have him come in.
I mean, he he's so just so youguys are aware, there was a
couple of years where we wereworried about the CFPB.
Now they're not, but it's itspeaks volumes to say that we

(15:05):
have enough people that actuallyshowed up that they would come
to us, sit down and have an openconversation.
When at one time we were worriedabout being on the table and and
served up to everybody else.
And then now he gets to come in,sit down, and talk to us.
And I you kind of sit with himand kind of have a good
conversation about what we'relooking at in the future and
where we land and all of this.
Uh and I believe that we are inthe clear, is what I heard.

SPEAKER_01 (15:28):
Well, I think you know, it it's been a consistent
thing since that bureau was setup uh uh back in I think it was
legislation passed into around2010.
So it's been around for a while.
Uh we were specifically excludedfrom that, but they've always
been, as regulators like to do,they try to uh branch out from
their jurisdiction sometimes.

(15:49):
And so uh that that agency,particularly in in prior
administrations, has has youknow really tested the
boundaries of it and has uhwhere we've had to to to push
back and or to remind them whythat it's so important the red
zone is not a credittransaction, and um all of those
elements as to why it is not,and it really being the ultimate

(16:13):
flexible transaction that youcan return at any time for any
reason um whatsoever.
And so that's uh an importantdistinction.
We have to continue toreiterate, and that's really a
large part of why we go to DC.
Uh it's not just the CFPB, um,it's to make sure and maintain
those relationships, remind ourlegislators as to who we are uh

(16:35):
and what we do because it's theand I think that if you've been
there, if you've done thisbefore, you know this.
If we're not out there definingourselves, someone else will.
And if someone else is doingthat, there it's not going to be
the favorable, uh really honest,truthful approach that we do.
We know we're the authorities onthis, we're the ones that should

(16:56):
be spreading that message anddoing it.
And so that's a large part ofwhat we're doing.
Establishing thoserelationships, maintaining those
relationships with ourlegislators, with their staff.
Uh in this case, uh, you know,establishing a relationship with
with the with the regulator toreally be clear, hey, we're not
you're not our regulator.
You're our regulators are the 47states uh and those legislators

(17:20):
are across the country, um, uhnot not the the Bureau in DC.
And so it was good to have areally co good conversation with
uh with the deputy director justabout what their priorities are,
what they're doing, uh what thethat uh agency looks like today
compared to three years ago,five years ago.
And and it was uh an interestingthing.

(17:41):
I mean, I know uh that's uh ittheir activities have been
something I've certainlyfollowed for since really their
inception.
Uh and they've done they've doneand they've done a lot of
things, and they've done a lotof good things.
It's hard, it's hard to say, youknow, some of the things that
they have done or uh whenthey're really going after
abusive practices uh uh thatsome financial institutions have

(18:03):
engaged in, that those are youknow, those are positive things,
and that's uh an axe an elementof of that agency and the
importance of having thatconsumer protection.
Um I think we're we're we're forconsumer protection and rent to
own.
That's why we have our statestatutes, but that's why we have
all those disclosures uh that wefollow.
That's why we have all thesebest practices we promote at
APRO.

(18:24):
So uh it's good to have thatkind of conversation and really
share what we're doing in APROuh and for the industry to help
self-regulate so we don't needsomeone trying to come in from
DC on the federal level in anarea that they don't belong in.

SPEAKER_02 (18:40):
Hey everyone, it's Pete Chao here from the RTO Show
Podcast, and I want to tell youabout a company that's making a
real difference in therent-to-owned space, WoW brands.
I've seen firsthand how theyapproach marketing.
Let me tell you, it's not justabout ads.
WoW brands build completedigital ecosystems designed
specifically for therent-to-owned industry.
Their e-commerce and leadgeneration strategies are built

(19:02):
to bring qualified leads.
And did I mention that they areactively working with the
rent-town industry while alsobeing members of April and Trib?
Listen, these folks arepassionate problem solvers.
They don't just slap somethingtogether, they design, build,
and scale the kind of digitalretail tools your business
needs.
Your customers actually want.
So if you're serious aboutgrowing, reach out to WoWbrands

(19:24):
at WoWBrands.com.
I trust them, and I think youwill too.
So then after this, after thisbreakfast and after this meet
and greet, we sit down, talks uhare happening between Charles
and the CFPB, the deputydirector.
So then after that, we all gotake a picture, which is
something a little bit differentthis year.
We decided to take a picture upfront first instead of
afterwards, which I you knowwhat, I'm not gonna complain.
I really did enjoy that, and youcan see me on there somewhere in

(19:47):
there.
I'm in that picture.
I think it was on the first rowthis time.
So you don't have to look hard.
Uh but besides playing Where'sWaldo, then we actually have our
meetings, right?
So we go into our meetings, andyour meeting is set up, like you
said, by by Lisa Kravanoff, andit's basically based on the area
that you're in and what yourepresent.
So if you have a township thathas your stores or the company
that you work for or the areathat you help, those are gonna

(20:08):
be the people that you're gonnasee.
So as you're seeing them, andthe Amber Lee gets to go and be
a part of this.
Now I've never had uh Charlesgoing around with me, but I have
had Armor Amberly in the in thegroup of ours.
So, Amberly, tell me a littlebit.
Like when we go to have theseconversations, we're advocating,
we're basically saying, hey,this is who we are, this is what
we represent, right?
These are the tax dollars, theseare the people that in your your

(20:29):
constituents in your area, thethe people that really are part
of the community that we helpserve and is in your locations.
How do those conversations go?
What does advocacy sound likewhere you got these people in
the room that are, you know, allfrom one area, but we had
somebody from Renacenter, it wasa Paul Mentibier from the
Renaissance group, guys.
Um, we had somebody fromAaron's, and we were talking

(20:51):
about that I haven't had a groupfrom Aaron's in a long time.
There was RR Tire Express whowas doing the tire and wheel
side.
There was, you know, somebodyfrom Nationwide Direct in our
group.
There's somebody from April inour group, there's somebody from
Grey Rooms in our group.
Like when you get all thesevoices together, what does it
look like as you walk into oneof these situations, you're
walking into one of thesemeetings?
Kind of help me walk throughwhat would somebody expect that

(21:12):
they're new?
What does it look like when theyopen the door?

SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
Well, one of the things to realize is that almost
everybody you talk to, like avery good portion of them,
especially when you're workingwith um the legislative aides,
they don't know the industry.
Um so a lot of times you'll askthem, um, you know, what what is
it that you already know aboutrent to own?
And a lot of times they'll thinkit's it's housing or they'll
think it's you know somethingthey just have no idea.
And so we get to explain whatthe transaction is and what it

(21:39):
isn't.
Um and then one of the biggestimpactful things is just telling
the real life stories.
Um, you know, I I'm in thestorytelling business, so I kind
of like that part.
But um, you know, we we tell thestories of real people and how
it's impacted the, you know, thethe customers, the employees,
the the communities that weserve.
Um, it's it's all an importantpart in, you know.

(22:00):
know them seeing that it has a areal life human impact.
Um and it's it's not just atransaction like it's a we talk
about all the time.
It's a relationship business anduh that goes in every direction.
Um so having that opportunity toto come together and represent
together and you know share havecommon ground and share stories
um even amongst competitors umwe can all come together and you

(22:23):
know share the same message.

SPEAKER_02 (22:24):
How many industries do that, right?
I mean that's just one of thosethings where it it's crazy.
We have all kinds of peoplethere that that you would think
that we're on the front lineslike battling each other and
we're all all in in lockstepjust saying hey in one voice
this is our industry.
Let me educate you on that.
So between 10 and 5 you have allthese meetings.
Charles I have I've had I'vebeen asked this question before
and I can't think of a betterperson to ask this question.

(22:47):
There are times when we'remeeting and and these lawmakers
are not in office, right?
So sometimes we get somebody inthere where we're talking to
directly whether it's arepresentative or senator but
then there are also some timesthat we get to the office and
we're really kind of talking tothe staff and not who we want we
think you know hey it's my firstyear I'm going to talk to all
these people but I'm talking toa staffer.
Help me and help the listenersunderstand.

(23:07):
Why is it important to go in tosee the staffers and be as open
and very direct and like likeyou're advocating to the senator
or the representative themselveswith the staffers versus you
know well let me just put itaway and I'll hold it here when
they're really here.
Like why is it important to doit with them?

SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
Well I you know um to a certain level the it
they're almost as important tobe speaking to as the actual
member I mean you've got toremember these you know there
are a hundred US senators thereare four hundred and thirty five
members of Congress.
They've got a lot to do they'vegot a lot they're supposed to be
doing.
Um we'll kind of talk about thatin another podcast yeah but you

(23:49):
know the there's a you knowyou've only got a certain amount
of bandwidth I I I can't imaginewhat it would be like to be one
of two senators for a state andhave all of the issues that
they've got all the committeeassignments you know there
there's a lot.
And so the they really do relyon their staff.
Their staff are really the kindof gateways they they they do

(24:11):
meetings uh weekly with themthey report back on what that
they've learned and really inthe event that something were to
happen and we needed to make aphone call or get in touch with
with someone we're going toreach out to that staffer.
They're gonna be our link.
Another thing with with staffersthese these typically become I

(24:32):
don't institutionalized might bethe right word um they stick
around like a a lot of them doand they become career staff
where they will move up frombeing you know a legislative
aide to a legislative directorto the chief of staff position
and once you get into those theyreally start moving around and
so in lots of ways the stafferswill outlive the members um in

(24:57):
DC and so there are there aremany that we've been meeting
with in for years at differentoffices that they move over here
after there's an election.
You can look at the upcomingelection there are a lot of
people that are uh members ofCongress that are retiring and
so you know you'll have kind ofturnover with those staffers um
moving to different um uh todifferent offices and so having

(25:20):
those relationships are reallyimportant because those those
will carry and they stay and soit it's there is no uh the
members are busy uh oftentimeswe have meetings scheduled with
a member and then they getcalled in for a vote they get
called in for a committeemeeting I can tell you pretty
much every time I go to DCthere's a fire that they're

(25:40):
trying to put out for somereason and um you get moved uh
to a different location ifyou're meeting with a member or
uh you get moved to a differenttime.
And so it that it's kind ofreally par for the course with
that but but the staffers arethe ones that uh are really the
the key holders and th they'reit's they're almost if not more

(26:03):
important to be meeting with uhwhen when we go to talk to them
because they're the ones doingthe research and they're often
the ones advising the the themember on issues, um what what
votes look like, things of thatnature.
So those are really importantrelationships that we we aim and
try to cultivate when we'regoing up there.

SPEAKER_02 (26:22):
Now generally uh we're we're between 10 and 5 so
we have a lot of differentmeetings and we'll meet probably
15 20 minutes before we're offto our next one we're going from
one building to the next andwe're all over the Capitol Hill.
It really like I one thing thatyou've always made sure that we
did is we got to get a picturewe got to get cards.
As somebody who is into themarketing and and the
communications how important isthat what is the point of that

(26:44):
and how you know how can westress the importance of that to
the people that are coming nextyear and say hey you need to do
this and this is why well therethere was two two parts to the
question in there so I'll gowith the pictures first because
that's the the more fun part forme.

SPEAKER_00 (26:59):
So it gives me content which is really great.
But it also you know it it'spart of that being able to share
it with everybody back at homewhat's going on, why we're
going, uh what we're doing.
So and you know thinking back tomy first year, this is my third
um just like walking around andlooking at the grandness of
everything and you know justbeing able to to have that

(27:21):
feeling of walking through issomething crazy.
So if you can capture even justa little bit of that in a
picture I think it's somethingthat can help others you know
know why they should come to umand then the business cards I
think are important.
Like we had one lady um we weactually had two aides in this
particular meeting and um I wasreally glad the second one was

(27:42):
there.
So the the first guy got usmixed up with a later
appointment in the day and andthought we were there to talk
about caskets.

SPEAKER_02 (27:51):
Anthony thought we were there for funeral home
arrangements.

SPEAKER_00 (27:54):
He said caskets yeah we were like no we don't rent
our own caskets that was a thatwas a interesting yeah yeah and
then and then from there he wentinto rent to own home so you
know the other lady pitched inand she actually did know a
little bit about you know rentto own with the durable consumer
goods and let me save you let mesave you from doing whatever
you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 (28:13):
And it actually ended up being a great meeting
because then we actually had adouble meeting we had some great
legends that were in thereincluding Michael Bennett uh who
was kind of overseeingeverything and then we we had
some younger uh you know well Ishould say first time attendees
with us that got to see like heynot just because it doesn't go
according everything accordingto plan doesn't mean that you
bail out and and and stop rightit's still important to get that
message across it's stillimportant to advocate it's still

(28:35):
important to get their card andthen after we kick them out you
still get a picture with therest of the group right is that
what we do.
But like it's it you know and itit's something that they always
ask me like why like like ifit's not them why and I
completely resonate with thatyou know those staffers are
there there is there are a fewpeople that I saw from the year
before in offices that I hadn'tbeen to which is which is weird

(28:56):
because you go to a differentoffice and like oh I didn't see
this guy but I saw him in thehall and he you know you say hi
to those people and I agree thatmakes a lot of sense to be able
to at least be known and asyou're advocating you want to be
known through the halls byanybody who's going to see you
and know you especially whenthey have a senator
representative's ear everysingle day for their entire
term.
I mean it just makes adifference.
So I agree with that a hundredpercent.

(29:17):
Now talking about our first timeattendees which is something
that I'm really curious aboutbecause I really want to ask you
Charles some of our first uhtime attendees was someone from
the NSRA when did they startlike I I if they're visiting all
the time I didn't know it arethey is this the first time that
the shed rental or what I howdoes it it's the National Shed

(29:39):
Rental uh administration or isthat right?
NSRA National Shed RentalDealers Association Dealership
National Shed Rental Associationum so so they I mean I didn't
even know they were there andall of a sudden I seen Nick and
I was like oh my god this isamazing that they're here
helping us advocate for thisindustry I mean usually it is
traditional wheel and tire andthen they're there how how did

(30:01):
that happen?

SPEAKER_01 (30:02):
Yeah so the uh NSRA's been um they've been
involved with APRO for a numberof years I want to say uh Ed
Wynn helped uh them get startedwhenever they initially formed I
want to say they're 15 years agouh so he was very involved with
them uh they actually are anAPRO member so they joined the

(30:23):
NSRA uh joined they typicallywill do the board meeting and so
their their presence has beenincreasing each year they've
been coming to the legal summitwe've been doing at RTO World uh
they'll do a board meeting thereand they usually have a few
people uh around um and so we'vebeen kind of just coordinating a
little bit I go to their showsuh typically their their annual

(30:45):
event in in September and we'vejust kind of you know been
talking more with uh andexpanding our relationship and
so it was really great that theydecided to to send Nick um and
Gerard up there this year to tojoin us uh as part of it because
they are a a they are fall underthe same transaction we do uh

(31:08):
they are really look to us tohelp on the advocacy side of
what we do because it's the samething.
We're per about protecting thetransaction um that's our
mission here at APRO and so itis uh it's just a new part of
the industry that that's thereum and they're all over the
country and so and theyrepresent a pretty large um

(31:29):
portion of uh when we doevaluation you know I think our
our numbers are about 12 billionfor the RTO industry the
traditional and virtual sidewith that uh we're not capturing
that and so we're we're workingon some things to to look at
some data for that to see howmuch of an economic impact that
they have uh and so that'simportant we go in and meet with
a um you know a congressman orcongresswoman and say you know

(31:55):
one out of 27 households usesrent to own well that number may
be a little bit higher becausewe're not capturing who may be
out renting shed as well.
When we say we've got a$12billion impact or we're
responsible for this much inpayroll or this much in taxes in
your district there's anotherelement that they're

(32:15):
contributing to that too.
And so it's really good to havethem there because that's just
another part and expansion ofthe of our market.
We really do reach a lot ofpeople and uh a lot of people
like what we offer theflexibility of that transaction
and and the sheds is just aunique aspect of it and uh uh
one that one that's doing prettywell and really meets people

(32:37):
where they need and uh wherewe're where they want to be with
that with that option.

SPEAKER_02 (32:42):
So well I want you guys to know if you are from the
NSRA and you have anything to dowith sheds and RTO please reach
out to the show.
I am dying to talk to you Iwould love to have a a number of
you go to this legislativeconference next year at 27.
I would love to see 33 new justfrom the shed side alone because
it's something I didn't know Iwas I was completely fascinated

(33:04):
thought it was an absolutelywonderful idea for them to join
us and I would absolutely loveto join them and some of the
things that they have going onand what they do because it's
super important for us to as acomplete industry just go go to
DC in one voice and leteverybody know we are regulated
in 47 states and we're doing adarn good job of that let's let
that this leap you know justleave it the way it is uh CFPB

(33:26):
not included but uh Emily likewhen you you know he said the
key word there I should say uhyou know partially word there
the VRTO there was somethingthat we had talked about before
that I didn't know that theywere in none of this either and
now guys I feel terrible that Ididn't know this and if if you
didn't either hey uh I knowAnthony didn't know but the
thing is is like I didn't knowthe virtual rent owned and the

(33:48):
sheds were already a part ofwhat April was doing they're a
part of what we have alreadygoing on and being a part of
this organization is huge but Ididn't know that and I want
everybody listening to know thatthey are a we are in one
industry and they're alreadyhere.
How big is that to have themhere Amberly I mean I they kind
of it's knocking on my back doorI didn't even know about it but

(34:10):
you did you know about what'sgoing on is there going to be
something going on in the futurewe're we're gonna kind of like
sound that bell and say hey weare this one voice April is
going to, you know, thisnewsletter is now going to
incorporate maybe a shed sidemaybe you know um a virtual side
uh an element of that is thatsomewhere down the pipeline is
that something that might havejust come up on the podcast that
we thought about well I meanlike like you said we are all

(34:34):
one big family.

SPEAKER_00 (34:35):
We all have the same regulations we all have the same
you know guidelines and in thesame transactions.
So um you know it's it'ssomething that you just have to
get everybody together and andand to hash it out, talk it out.
That's why uh we all gettogether and have that community
uh community aspect so we canlearn from each other, um, find
out you know what's workinggood, what's what's what's

(34:57):
working good over here that wecould try out over there.
And um you know I think it'sjust important to to have every
different piece of our puzzle uhrepresented and um and and they
are part of that.
So um you've got traditionalyou've got virtual you've got uh
tires and wheels you've gotsheds you've got everything so
um it's it's I think it'simportant for everyone to be

(35:18):
represented.

SPEAKER_02 (35:19):
Yeah I I do I think it's I think it's great.
I mean and and if you take alook at the numbers and the
benefits that they are giving asa matter of fact you were
talking about numbers a minuteago what they're contributing it
is getting bigger every singleyear it is not going away and as
a matter of fact I I see thattheir numbers are gonna they're
escalating quite a bit you knowit didn't seem like at first it
was going to be what it was Idon't think somebody thought

(35:41):
about that in Rentone at onetime either like I don't know
what's going to be that and thennow these numbers I mean they're
moving up they are becoming veryimportant in what we do.

SPEAKER_01 (35:50):
Well and and and they and they have been I think
you know it's a new industrythat uh largely was started in
2013 um around that time most ofthose companies were and it I
want to say maybe around 2020 itwas the last strategic plan the
one um before our currentversion at APRO we made that

(36:12):
concerted or that effort andintentional decision that we
were the we were about thetransaction we were about these
statutes and if you fell underthese statutes then you were
part of the tent and um so we'vewe've had virtual companies uh
involved with APRO for thebetter part of the last six
years uh particularly with thewith the like a SEMA uh

(36:36):
progressive uh snap financejoined last year we re we
literally represent I want tosay about 80% of that market but
with those companies uh alongwith some of our smaller ones uh
you only see it's another oneDaniel's uh coniment's or
Daniel's been a great um uh uhaddition for us and advocate for

(36:56):
us in N DC and so it it's it's areally unique part but it also
just shows like the expansion ofwhere why that this transaction
is so appealing to peoplebecause it really does offer um
that ultimate flexibility and soit has expanded the market
considerably that's why you'reseeing so much growth on that

(37:17):
side because they're it's beyondthe traditional brick and mortar
location they're in a HomeDepot, they're in a Lowe's
they're um in in these otherretail establishments that we've
we've not traditionally reached.
And so a big they're a huge andan important part of it.
But they fall and they fallunder the same transaction.
We've got several board membersthat are uh represent those

(37:38):
companies and and have the voicein our leadership uh as well and
so uh it's good to have them aspart of this and in DC can we
can say that and really say okaythis is we're reaching so many
families they rely on thistransaction every day and this
is why the regulatory schemethat we have in place is
important why it's important tofollow it why it's important to

(38:00):
have these disclosures to havethese uh consumer protections
that are built into it thateveryone's following uh because
we're reaching more and morepeople and I think that's going
to continue to be the casebecause this is this transaction
is really designed it's beengreat for the past but it's
really designed for the consumerpreferences that we're seeing on
the subscription model uh forthe future and future in younger

(38:22):
generations going forward.

SPEAKER_02 (38:24):
Is there an idea or a an a goal to have these you
know these because I couldn'ttell you how many of the hundred
are one side or the otherwhether it be the shed side
whether it be the you knowvirtual rent to own is it safe
to say that you know next yearour you know part of our goal
from this year to next year isto get them more representation
in the advocacy efforts that wedo in DC and LEGCon 2027?

SPEAKER_01 (38:48):
You know I think I think the the virtuals have been
have been part of our theassociation and part of LEGCon
really for the past six yearssince most of them joined and so
we're we're adding a few everyyear and there's you know we
would like to see more so we arespeaking with that whole voice
from them.
But I think that's really thecool thing about this conference

(39:10):
particular is how we bringeveryone together.
I mean APRO we're a a huge tentwe've got publicly traded
companies over here all the wayto the franchisors to the
franchisees to the largeindependents to the mid-size
independents all the way down tothe single store operator.
And then we throw in these othervectors out there from tire

(39:34):
wheels to sheds to uh HVAC toreally anything that falls under
a durable goods category,anything that can be returned
can be subject to our our leasepurchase uh regulations.
And so um the it's important tokind of keep that in mind and
that's really we helped passthese these statutes and that is

(39:57):
uh we know them and we're we'rethe ones that are really charged
with being the stewards andprotectors of that and so that's
why coming together speakingwith one voice and kind of
what's what's great about thisconference is you're bringing in
all these competitors.
I mean lots of times like theteams you were just mentioning
you you you mentioned yourFlorida team you've literally

(40:17):
got you know stores across thestreet from each other and we
can put that aside could competeduring every other day of the
year but whenever we come intolegislative conference when we
come into the industry events uhthat goes aside and we're really
speaking with that one voice.
Uh we we have the saying thatit's kind of the Legcon slogan

(40:40):
it's a um ver I'll make sure Iget the Latin it's basically
strength in unity veritas uniteuh Anthony we're gonna have to
put that on the screen foreverybody.

SPEAKER_02 (40:51):
But yeah so I so another question that I get and
I'm and you know I think we'vehad this conversation and I
think we all have had thisconversation but for the
listeners to just make sure thatthey understand we talk about
having 47 state laws right we'realmost there we're gonna talk
about a couple states in aminute but we you know we almost

(41:12):
have all of them down.
So then why get together at DC?
Why put everybody together atthe Capitol Hill and talk to the
people that are at DC, thesenators the legislators their
staff if there is no federal lawwhat is the point behind that
and and maybe you can explainthat to me and to the listeners
so that they have a goodunderstanding why this means as
much as it does.

SPEAKER_01 (41:32):
Well so that that's part of the challenge is that
we're not pushing federallegislation.
I say easy I wasn't there butyears past it was we were
getting a hundred plus and theywere com we were coming up and
saying we have this specificbill we want you to vote for it.
And that that's a little bit ofan easier task than I think we
have now when we're really ourour call to action is hey we've

(41:57):
it it's kind of the saying oflike the best time to repair a
roof is when the sun's shining.
And that's kind of where we arethe house is not on fire and
we're not up there trying to putit out which is a much different
situation and one that we aretrying to very actively and
proactively avoid by doing this.
We're putting in the effort nowwe're establishing those

(42:17):
relationships we're we're we'retelling our story what the
rent-owned transaction is whatwe are about and what we're not
and really clearing up anymisconceptions so if someone
goes up and follows us next weekor in a couple months or six
months from now and goes in andtries to characterize us as
something else the people we'vemet with and have been

(42:38):
establishing these relationshipsevery year will know better
hopefully to say okay well or orthey know hey I met with Amberly
Meyer from April or I met withPete Shaw from R and R the R and
the RTO show let me reach out tothem and see what they have to
say about this.
That's our goal and that's whatwe're trying to do here.

(42:59):
So there's really uh it's atough call to action and that
we're saying we're wanting to goup there and say hey we're up
regulated on the state level wewant you to leave us alone we
are well regulated and we'rewe're on the path to
self-regulation through APRO.
That's a um that's a positionyou want to be not putting the
fire out uh that's a totallydifferent conversation uh a

(43:22):
totally different feeling thanthe ones that we get to have
like we had last week when wewere in DC and so we're trying
to prevent that uh and I couldtell you probably you're we're
gonna talk a little bit aboutsome of the states and it's a
totally different environmentand and you know posture that we
have to have when we're tryingto put a fire out.

SPEAKER_02 (43:38):
Well I'm gonna tell you what I think we missed is we
should have brought some extrabooks when we were talking to
some of the legislators.
We could have you know on top ofour cards we could have just
slipped the book and be likeread it yourself.
But so one of the last questionsthat somebody gave me that I
really didn't have a good answerto was we have forty seven
states.
We don't have all fifty.
Would a federal law fix that?

SPEAKER_01 (44:00):
Well that's that was the goal.
I mean, that for years.
The and that was really back inthe early eighties when APRO was
founded.
Uh the idea was to push thatfederal legislation uh to say to
define rent lease rent to own,lease to own, that it is a
lease, not a credit.
Um and that what ran parallel tothat effort was we'll we'll push

(44:26):
the federal legislation, butwe're going to go through and
work on state regulation aswell.
And so eventually that stateregulation took over, and we
have almost you know 47 of the50 states at this point.
That um effort to do to defineit under federal law as a lease
became a little bit redundant orless necessary.

(44:49):
And so that we haven't reallybeen pushing that effort for
several years.
I think that the posture changedof, hey, we're we're happy with
where we are.
Uh we don't we we don't needthat.
And in fact, I've I've heard thestories and they're you know
referenced in the book where uhand in some of the RTL Legends
interviews where people finallywere talking with members of

(45:11):
Congress about bills, and theywere advised by those members.
Hey, you don't want us doingthis because if we do this, then
we're in your business, and wecan change it at any time.
And you see how some of thesebills, how the you you you read
these things about, you seewhat's going on with
appropriations and how thethings just kind of get stacked

(45:32):
in and fall in on on some ofthis large legislation.
And when we're talking aboutreally a a couple like a one or
two-line sentence is what we'rereally looking for of, you know,
lease to own is a lease, notcredit transaction.
Uh, those things are, you know,there's a risk involved of
having that federal legislation.
I think that that riskassessment has changed over the

(45:54):
past few years, and that's whywe're really focused on the
state level and still go into DCto tell them that we're well
regulated, both on the statelevel and both and through our
industry self-regulating itselfthrough APRO best practices,
code of ethics, uh the the thosetype of things that we're
working on as the professionalrental organization.

SPEAKER_02 (46:16):
Let me ask you something.
Are you getting everything outof your rent-to-owned business?
If you're not an APRO member,then the answer is probably no.
Look, advocacy is APRO's breadand butter.
This is why they were createdand what they do best.
But here's the thing Aprilmembership is about way more
than advocacy.
April connects you to the moversand the shakers of the industry,

(46:37):
people who've been there, donethat, and they could help you do
it even better.
Apro's monthly webinars give youexpert insights and actionable
takeaways.
It's like having a masterclassfor your business every single
month.
Got questions about complexregulations or sticky
situations?
No problem.
April's legal hotline gives youdirect access to experts who
have got the answers.
That's a peace of mind that youcan't put a price on.

(46:59):
And let's not forget theresources, news, updates, and
tools that keep you ahead of thecurve.
Scholarships for your team?
Check.
Disaster relief when you need itmost?
Double check.
APRO is your ultimate supportsystem in the rent-to-own world.
So stop settling for less.
With APRO members, get more.
More support, more connections,and more success.

(47:19):
Head over to rtohq.org and jointhe APRO family today.
Because in this business, moreisn't just better, it's
essential.
See you at the top with APRO.
So come towards the end of theday, not only do we get to leave
at 5 p.m.
because it's been a long day,we're on our feet all day, but
then uh as we meet up, there's acouple things that were

(47:40):
important.
Number one, Amberly, we had toscan something and make sure
that we're kind of giving ourfeedback of these meetings and
stuff.
And I'm gonna maybe get your uhinput on that.
And then we had a couple ofpeople who were on camera who
had never been there before tokind of give their ideas and
this, you know, what happenedthat they didn't know about,
they didn't see.
What came out of that?
Like, what did you hear?

(48:01):
What's something that you hearthat was like, you know what?
I'm glad that I had that personhere to kind of share their
story a little bit because I'veseen it again on LinkedIn and on
some of the social media sitesand on you know, rtohq.org where
it's like the these peoplereally got something new out of
it.
They were like, oh my God, Ididn't know.
I didn't see this.
So as you're gathering thisinformation, was you know, how
important is that to not onlycollect it but then show it out

(48:23):
to everybody else and say, hey,this is what you can see at at
LedgeCon?

SPEAKER_00 (48:29):
Well, I think one of the big things is you know,
people come in and they they'renervous um to go and talk with
legislators and thinking it's abig scary thing to to go do.
And, you know, it's not likeyou're gonna go stand in a
courtroom or anything, you know,you're just kind of talking with
people.
You're sitting around a tabletalking with people.
And um, you know, whether it'sthe legislator or the aides, you

(48:50):
know, they're they're not comingdown on you, especially we're
not there for an ass, they'resuper happy that we're not there
for an ass.
They're like, this is an easyconversation.
Um so when the when a new personcomes in and and realizes, you
know, that this is easy, theseare people that are, you know,
making all these laws and youknow, they're important, but I'm
able to have an impact on, youknow, their opinion of the

(49:10):
industry and making sure that,you know, if something does come
down the pike that, you know,they can remember my face.
That's what uh Shannon Strunksaid during the debrief dinner
that, you know, you you make aconnection with these people so
that um whatever it is, becausea lot of them are from your
area, you're meeting with peoplefrom your state.
Um, so you make some sort ofconnection with them so that if
something comes down, theyremember, you know, I gotta call

(49:31):
Pete, I gotta call Charlesbecause they made that
connection with you.
So um it's the same thing withthe first timers.
They they get to experience thatfirsthand.
They um I the common thing youhear a lot is that they're
they're in awe of the process.
Um, it's an exciting thing to bea part of.
Um it it's a professionaldevelopment opportunity.

(49:52):
Um, you know, getting to go andtalk to these people that, you
know, you you may have neverdreamed that you'd have that
opportunity.
Um so it's you know, a lot ofpeople telling those those same
types of stories.
And I think it's important torecord them so that we can share
that with other people and getmore attendees next year.

SPEAKER_02 (50:08):
So well, I gotta say, one of the one of the
attendees that I didn't know wasfirst time was Lauren Talisca.
And I had no idea that she hadnever been there before.
And as she's telling her story,which is one of the reasons why
I brought it up, uh, you know,you can almost see the
difference in her eyes.
Like, I I just did not know.
And I think it was great to havethat on camera.
I think it's great to showsomebody who's never been there

(50:29):
before.
Like, this is the differencebetween not knowing and actually
advocating for the business.
So I I think you did a great jobthere, uh just you know, just
telling it.
I think it was an amazing job tohave people on there and to tell
their story and to say, hey, youknow, in one voice, I got to
join in on this with the guys,like you said before, Charles,
people who've been here foryears and years and years.

(50:49):
And we're talking about peoplewho are legends and people who
have just showed up to DC forthe first time in their lives
and we're all walking CapitolHill together.
I love that story.
That means a lot to me.
That means a whole lot to me.
Uh, we actually got to share ourfirst year together, Amber Lee
and I.
And that was Anthony, I thinkI'm gonna bring you along next
year just so you're aware.
I want to have you walk thehalls with us next year.
Absolutely.

(51:10):
Let me do it.
You know, we're just gonna, youknow, you're gonna have to
eyeball and record us in theareas you can.
I don't know we can, but we canmake a drop out.
So there were a couple of statesthat we talked about, right?
Because we're talking about allthe grand things, and we want to
make sure that we're doing theright.
There are a couple of statesthat right now we are looking at
because guys, if we didn't tellyou why we're doing LedgeCon,

(51:30):
this is exactly why.
Things like this need to be inthe forefront, and we want to
know about it.
Charles, we've got uh New Yorkthat just isn't seemingly going
away right now.
This is something that we'vetalked about last year, and we
talked about on the episodebefore that.
Uh it looks like we've gotSenate Bill uh 1726 and Assembly
Bill 4918.
Why why what is this?

(51:51):
Where is it coming from?
Why why are they still there?
We are not a credit transaction,they have regulatory uh laws in
that state.
What's going on right now?

SPEAKER_01 (52:02):
Uh well it's it's groundhog day um in New York,
and that's what it feels like.
This is year three of this.
Um in fact, I'm going up therein a couple of weeks to for the,
I think of the fourth or fifthtime to to walk calls and meet
the members on this.
And I think New York's a reallygood cautionary tale and really

(52:22):
shows why our legislativeconference at DC is so important
of establishing thoserelationships.
Um the New York Rental DealersAssociation had had really been
inactive for a number of yearsand it it's kind of fallen off,
and that this kind of this thingjust snuck in.
And it really is just a puresituation of of of really a

(52:43):
consumer group, uh, legislatorsthat are supportive of it or
listen to it and put it in abill form that don't understand
our business, that they don'tunderstand our transaction, and
they we were characterized bysomeone else defined who we
were, and they got there first.
And so we're having to do a lotof the sun shining in DC like it

(53:07):
was last week, and it was reallyhot.
New York house has been on fire,and so the posture of what would
the way that we have to go upthere and present to that and
really fight to uh do thesethings, these educational things
that we're doing in DC now andwe do every year, we're having
to really make up for lost timein in New York.

(53:28):
And so it's uh that's just asituation where we're trying to
be reclassified where this billsays that we're a credit
transaction.
We're uh categorically not, and47 states, including the state
of New York, uh, and their billpassed in 1987 says that we are
not a credit transaction.
Um and so but we've not been upand up there establishing those

(53:49):
relationships.
We've not been up thereadvocating, educating the
legislators that are there todaywere not there in 1987 when we
passed the statute.
Most of them weren't there in2009 when we amended the
statute, and we worked with thelegislator on new language, on
new disclosure requirements.
And so that's just a cautionarytell.
That's an that's an activestate.

(54:11):
Um it's a place where that onone hand we've had the CFPB that
has changed a lot in the currentadministration in DC, that the
vacuum is picked up on the statelevel, in particular the state
attorney generals.
And uh that um that's kind ofthe there's a the category or a

(54:32):
characteristic example of whatwe're trying to prevent.
And that, you know, we we'rewe're dealing with that in DC.
Uh that bill's still there.
Uh I think we're seeing someprogress on it.
I think our our messaging uh islanding.
There's some understanding as towhat that we do and how that

(54:53):
we're not like these newtransactions that we got lumped
in on this bill.
And so there's some changes thatare happening that are positive
up there, uh, and that ourmessaging is resonating.
And so we're uh cautiouslyoptimistic of what's happening
there.
Uh, but again, it's it's a lotof work and it's a lot of like

(55:13):
the preparation or the forwardthinking, uh uh the being
proactive, we missed out on itthere, and there's a bit of a
consequence that we're we'redealing with now.
And I can tell you, I I enjoy mytime in DC a lot more in having
that proactive educationconversations compared to hand

(55:36):
me a bucket, we've got to throwit on the spire and keep trying
to put it out, uh, like likeI've been doing when I've been
going up to Albi, like I'll bedoing when we go up there in a
couple more weeks to uh to keepsharing the good news.

SPEAKER_02 (55:50):
But you know, and this is a good tale to be told.
I mean, right now, what happensis everything was going good.
1987, we get this law passed.
As things go on, the people inNew York were like, well, I
mean, it's really there's reallynothing else left to do.
We don't need to do this all thetime.
The NYRDA kind of goes to sleep.
And then as this comes up, weget, you know, we kind of get a
little bit of a ring of a bellfrom, you know, uh our legal

(56:12):
counsel who's no longer with us.
I really wish it he was, buthe's not.
So we get our little bell andthat's we we start picking it
up.
And like you said, it was a kindof almost after the fact instead
of ahead of the fact, like we doin DC.
Now things are just starting topick up steam.
We had the NRDAA reform, NYRDAreformed Jeff Smith from
Hometown RTA uh and and MattRadeki, uh, you know, they run

(56:33):
that, but absolutely great guys.
But Jeff Smith kind of leadsthat.
Now he's on the the president onthe board, you go up there, and
then we have a couple of otherpeople from the RTO industry
going up there, and it's likeafter the fact.
After the fact, it's a lot moredangerous than the deal with
than up front.
So if you ever wanted a reasonto go to LedgeCon 2027, that is
it.
We do not want somebodydescribing their the transaction

(56:54):
that we know all too well tosomebody who doesn't.
And then what are we doing?
We are putting out all kinds offires, like Charles says, with a
bucket on a big fire.
And we don't want to do that.
And you know, coming in the end,we have the CFPB director in the
room.
He decides to stop by.
Number one, are we on the righttrack of keeping everything the

(57:14):
way it is uh when we havesomebody like that in the room?
And how how do you how would yousummarize what's going on in New
York as of right now and with alittle bit of foresight?
Like, is that something that weneed to worry about or we don't
know yet, or is it somethingthat we we need to you know get
gather around?
Guys, we might be in New York,but I mean, is it something that
we really need to worry about?

SPEAKER_01 (57:36):
Well, I mean, we've new we've we've taken New York
very seriously.
I mean, it is it's anexistential threat there.
And the the completemischaracterization of
establishing it as a credittransaction, saying subjecting
us to a usury rate, um, which isimpossible.

(57:56):
I mean, how do you can't put anAPR on a on a lease?
You just can't do it becausethere's no neither a borrowing
of money nor a fixed term uh torepay that money.
And so having to repeat that andto uh it's just been an exercise
that um just why it's soimportant.

(58:17):
But really, New York is one ofthose states that they've they
they're very consumer protectionactive, which is good.
I mean, we're for consumerprotection.
Um but they're also trying to beit's it's a it's a worry that
there's it's a almost we need tohave a firewall there uh because
it could spread.
And that's why we've been takingit as as seriously as we have uh

(58:41):
and are making the efforts thatwe're doing there to um to
really tell the truth about whatwe are and what we're not, and
to make those efforts.
So um I'm cautiously optimisticabout that our messaging is
landing there and that uh we'rehaving an effect.
And but it it's extremelyimportant, like I said.
Yeah, it changes the nature ofour business and whether we can

(59:01):
actually even do business inthat state if this law were to
pass.
It's that that's good.

SPEAKER_02 (59:06):
Well, it is important.
We have a lot of people in thatarea that not only use this
business, but they are employedby this business.
This industry kind of reachesvery far out into the New York
area, so it's very important,you know.
Uh talking to both of you andsee what answer you guys come up
with.
Um, as we come into this, Iwanted to know what is the

(59:27):
single most important thing youwant an RTO dealer who has never
attended LedgeCon to hear todaythat might get them to show up
next year.

SPEAKER_00 (59:35):
For me, I'd say it's for everybody.
So I came from the dealer sideand I kind of always envisioned
it as something for like the thehigher-ups.
Um, you know, it's the it's theowners that go down there and
they handle that, and you know,that's somebody else's job.
Um, but to see the reactions ofthe legislators and the aides
when they're talking to peoplewho are are in it every day, I

(59:58):
think is really important.
So seeing um, you know, the themanagers who can share the
stories of the actual consumersthat they're working with, you
know, that's the actualconstituents of the people that
we're talking to, um, you know,they have that that more
hands-on personal uh connection.
So it's important for everybodyto be there.
They all everybody has a goodstory to tell, um, especially in

(01:00:21):
this industry.
So um that that would beprobably my biggest thing is
don't feel like you can't gobecause you're a manager or
because you're, you know, adifferent position.
Um, it's not just for the ownersand home office people.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:35):
Charles, what would you say?
What would you be hearing, whatwould be your answer to that?

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:39):
So this year we kind of had a theme of and we we we
had this prompt that we askedeveryone to share um throughout
the event and in particular atthe debrief dinner.
And it was I'm proud to be partof the red zone industry because
dot dot dot.
Um and you know, it I think it'sabsolutely impossible.

(01:01:02):
That that dinner is literally myfavorite couple of hours of the
entire uh industry calendar inanything.
That that time to hear people toshare that story.
I mean, we're we're an industryof stories.
That is our strength.
And so we get to go to DC, weget that is that's what and we
get to people ask what ourstories are, and we've got some

(01:01:25):
great ones.
Um so getting to kind of sharethat, be a part of that.
But then I think what reallyunderlies that, and what I think
I think everybody that comesaway from it, really, if there
is a secret sauce to this, orwhat the the common thing that I
think everybody feels is thatreal sense of pride and what
what we do, who we serve, thosestories about uh the people that

(01:01:48):
we help, uh the access that thistransaction provides, and that's
what we're up there fightingfor.
And that's why it when you go upthere and you fight for it, you
know it's something worthfighting for.
And I think everyone reallycomes away with that sense of
pride.
Um that's where it brings it alltogether.
You've got competitors sittingin the same room speaking with

(01:02:09):
one voice.
And so, you know, I think a lotof what we're doing and what
we've been doing, I mean, thethe the the oh, there it is.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:19):
He's got the book.
That's the checkmate man.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:23):
This is a big part of it.
Yeah, I don't think you readthis book without coming away
with a sense of pride in being apart of this industry.
I hope you don't.
Hope you don't come away, hopeyou come away with it with a
sense of pride.
Uh and it's the same thing withlegislative conference.
I think that going up there andjust being a part of it, walking
the halls with new people, withexperienced people, with

(01:02:46):
different companies, differentvectors of the industry, all of
that, uh, and really speakingwith that one voice.
It's it's a special time.
And I think that once you goonce, we have we have so many
people that come back, and thatis the reason I think that
underlies it.
This isn't usually not a one-offthing.
I did this once, I'll it wasfine, I'm never coming back.

(01:03:06):
We have a lot of return people,and I think that's a uh that's a
key for that's a key for therent-to-one business.
That's what it's relationships,and uh, we really relationships
with each other, and we'reestablishing these relationships
with our elected officials andthose staffers.
Uh so that that's where it hits.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:23):
Well, I agree with you.
I'll tell you guys now why I doit, because I swear to you,
every time that I go, we aremaking history in real time.
That's what we do.
And if we don't do this,somebody else is gonna tell our
story, just like Charles said.
I believe that wholeheartedly.
And from this podcast to you,I'm gonna tell you guys I really
appreciate you being on a show.
We are gonna tell you our story,and the red tone is really,

(01:03:46):
really being done.
Listen, I'll tell you guys, asalways, you please make sure
that you subscribe to thechannel, make sure that you see
us.
We are everywhere that you wantto be Facebook and Instagram,
LinkedIn, YouTube, where you'regonna see this.
You definitely want to go to thewebsite, buy some swag.
There is nothing better lookingthan one of these guys in the
shirt.
I have pictures of that on thewebsite, by the way.

(01:04:06):
So if you go there, make sureyou get some swag.
You want to buy something,always think about supporting
the show because this is how weget to talk about what we do.
Everybody gets to come on theshow and say in one voice, this
is our industry, and I love itbecause.
And I love hearing that, youknow, whether what's one story
or another, I love, like yousaid, that debrief dinner.
Everybody had a different storyto tell.
And where would we be if wedidn't have those legends

(01:04:29):
walking side by side with someof the new people to say, hey, I
might not be here this year ornext year, you know, coming up
soon.
Shannon will be here for 35, 40years, but everybody else is
gonna be, you know, they mightbe out of the game, and it'd be
great to have these people stepup, including the VRTO, the
HVAC, and the NSRA.
I am so glad that they're a partof that.
Uh, you know, I want you guys toknow real quick, I appreciate

(01:04:51):
it.
Make sure you subscribe, makesure that you go to rtohq.org.
There is so much going on.
You might get a newsletter.
Charles, always a pleasure tohave you on.
And Raleigh, finally on the showafter so long.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate you guysbeing on.
I am glad that I was a part ofLedgeCon 2026, and I'm gonna
tell you guys, as always, getyour collections low to get your

(01:05:14):
sales high.
Have a great one.