Inside the Legal Side of Rent-to-Own Sheds

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One missed disclosure, one careless ad, or one unopened bankruptcy notice can turn a profitable rent-to-own deal into a full-blown legal mess. That’s why we brought on Nick Garrard, NSRA legal counsel and an attorney who works deep in the shed rent to own world, to help us get practical about where dealers get exposed and how to stay ahead of it.

We talk through what really changes when you move from traditional RTO items to higher-value sheds, and why the fundamentals still come back to the Rental Purchase Agreement Act, state-required disclosures, and consistent contract language. Nick breaks down how multi-state expansion creates risk in unexpected places, especially advertising. Some states can require specific pricing and term disclosures the moment you market an offer, even if your home office is somewhere else. If you have ever wondered why one state feels “easy” and another feels like a compliance minefield, we get into real examples like California maintenance requirements and pricing caps mentioned in places like West Virginia.

Then we shift into bankruptcy, the topic most dealers avoid until it lands on their desk. Nick explains how rent-to-own agreements are typically treated as true leases in bankruptcy, what “assume or reject” means, and why deadlines are everything. We also cover what you can often do yourself, like filing a proof of claim and requesting notice, so you save legal fees while still protecting your assets.

We wrap with where NSRA is headed, how collaboration with APRO is raising standards through ethics and better data, and what to expect at upcoming industry events. Subscribe, share this with a dealer who needs it, and leave a review if the show helps you run tighter. What state compliance issue has surprised you the most?

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:07):
Hello and welcome to the RTO Show podcast.
I'm your host, Pete Chow.
I've got somebody great today.
Actually, I'm a little worriedbecause I'm sitting in the hot
seat.
We got some legal counsel forthe NSRA.
But before we get started there,before we start talking to Nick,
I want you guys to know listen,half of the people listening are
not subscribed.
I need you to go on there, hitthe subscription, hit the bell,

(00:29):
get subscribed.
You don't want to miss anepisode, especially one that we
have going on today.
Little bit of homework for youguys.
Make sure you go to the podcastwebsite.
It's rtoshowpodcast.com.
Make sure you go down to thenewsletter section, put your
name, put your email.
You don't want to miss outbecause we cover subjects there
that we don't cover here.
Also, we still have somesponsorships available.
Make sure you go down thereagain, go to the website, click

(00:52):
that little link on there, helpus out because you guys are the
ones that we do it for.
Now, I'm with Nick Girard fromthe NSRA legal counsel attorney
at law.
I have uh I have some stuff hereas an as an introduction.
This is a long list of stuff.
He's done very well for himself.
He's he he's I would have him aslegal counsel too.
So, Nick, how are you doingtoday?

(01:14):
How's everything going inMississippi?

SPEAKER_02 (01:15):
It's great, Pete.
Thank you for uh having me on.
Appreciate you and what you dofor the industry.
And uh no, everything'severything's great down here.
How are things in Tampa?

SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
You know, it is sunny right now.
Yesterday we had, or yesterday,two days ago, what was it,
Anthony?
We had some we had some winds,we had some rain, man, and and
it was it was reminiscent of ouruh you know hurricane days, but
they went away like in like 10minutes.
So I'm not even arguing, but weneed the rain, so I'm glad to
get it.
So just so you guys know, theNSRA is the National Shed Rental

(01:44):
Association.
Now you guys hear me talk aboutAPRO all the time.
So the Association ofProfessional Rent Professional
Rental Organizations is asponsor of the show, and we do a
lot with them.
But I had no idea that the NSRAwas actually part of APRO, which
I was getting filled in atLedgeCon this year about Nick's
involvement, what he does, andwhat he represents as far as

(02:05):
legal counsel.
So, first question I got, Nick,is do you know Ed Wynn, the
legendary Ed Wynn?

SPEAKER_02 (02:12):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Ed and I, uh Ed was, you know,like a mentor to me.
When I first started um going toApril event, I went to an April
event in Daytona Beach.
I don't know if that was 10 or15 years ago.
First saw Ed there, and then umNSRA events over the years, and
Ed would come and speak, do alegal update uh for all the all

(02:38):
the shed guys.
And so from that I got to knowEd.
And you know, he's just been Imean, obviously, he's uh one of
a kind.
Um you know, nobody can can uhcan fill those shoes.
But um uh uh yeah, he's justbeen wonderful.
And um, you know, I think he hemust be enjoying retirement.

SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
So he uh I listen, when I talk to Ed, he is
definitely enjoying retirement.
He's he said on severaloccasions to me, like, no, no,
I'm glad I'm retired.
I think it is wonderful, it isexcellent.
So for those of you who don'tknow, Ed Wynne is the legal
counselor or was the legalcounselor for April for over 40
years.
He just retired uh not that longago, and he is doing a great
job.
He's part of the Legends series,if you guys want to check that

(03:23):
out.
I love Ed Wynn because he's hejust has he has a wit and
demeanor about him, and he'sjust a straight shooter, right?
I mean, he just tells you likeit is.
Exactly.
There's no, you know, we'rewe're not beating around the
bush here.
No, no, there's no fluff workwith it.

SPEAKER_02 (03:37):
No, no.
He uh he'll give you hisopinion, whether you whether you
um agree with him or not, buthe's gonna put it out there and
uh I appreciate that about him.
And look, he he was um he waswonderful to me as far as when I
was kind of breaking into theindustry.
I had I had two little uh filesthat somebody needed some legal

(03:59):
work on uh involving shits.
And um I was like, what is whatis this that I'm that I'm even
doing?
I I don't even know.
I'm trying to figure this outand figure out this this
business and this industry, andyou know, and then in doing that
research, I've come across APROand the uh what was in in B SRA,

(04:21):
but um N Sra.
And then, you know, uh justgetting connected with Ed
through that was was great andsomething that I couldn't, you
know, have done otherwise.
I mean, just a wonderfulwonderful man, a wonderful
mentor in the uh industry, andcertainly one of the kind.

SPEAKER_00 (04:40):
Well, he's gonna be missed.
I mean, Ed, you're alwayswelcome to come on the show.
I always tell him that, but he'slike, I'm good.
I'm I'm I'm good being retired.
He's really excited about that.
Yeah, so getting a little bit ofbackground on you, I've got that
you were born and raised inMississippi, so you didn't go
very far.
At least, at least that's good,right?
You're in Jackson now.
But um, you graduated from OldMiss, you went to the Ole Miss

(05:02):
uh School of Law, you arepracticing out of Jackson now.
You are uh you made you wererated by the Martindale Hubble
basically the highest possiblepeer rating for ethics and legal
ability.
That is what I it's a mouthful,right?
I can't even say that, right?
It's a mouthful.
That's that's awesome.
And then you were admitted topractice in Mississippi, Texas,
North Carolina, as well as theU.S.

(05:23):
Court's appeal of the Fourth andFifth Circuits.
You are a busy guy, sir.

SPEAKER_02 (05:28):
Busy, busy.
Um, you know, like I said, whenI first started out here in um
Mississippi, um uh born andraised in I think Mississippi, I
think I saw the other day thatwe have the highest percentage
of born and raised, you know,population in the country.
So people, you know, I think Iwas born up in the Mississippi

(05:49):
Delta, which is a lot offarmland, and um people say when
you when you kind of get thatdelta mud on you, you you don't
get you can't get get up awayfrom it.
But yeah, so that's that's whatthat's my home.
And um, but yeah, uh done donework here in Mississippi, uh

(06:09):
clerked for a law uh a judge upin the Delta and been in private
practice since 2012.
Um and um you know, got admittedto the North Carolina bar from
here.
I've done some work up there andnow admitted out in Texas as
well.
So just trying to help as best Ican wherever I'm needed.

SPEAKER_00 (06:34):
Well, I tell you what, Florida is not like that.
I don't know if uh, you know,Anthony views we are we are
transplanted from every place onGod's green earth.
I seldom know a few people thatare actually born in Florida and
from Florida.
They're like we all transferfrom somewhere else.
So it's great to hear that.
So you know, talking about yourhistory and a little bit of the
accolades that you have, youknow, being that you're you are

(06:57):
from there, what led you to beinvolved in the rent-to-owned
industry?
Because that it doesn't seemlike I would be tracking that,
but here you are.

SPEAKER_02 (07:07):
Yeah, um it was uh interesting.
You know, I I uh was workingwith this firm and we it was a
predecessor to this this currentfirm uh that I'm with, Wilkins
Patterson, but we we did alittle bit of work.
Um, this firm is primarilyworkers come defense, insurance
defense, a to typically uhtraditional small defense firm.

(07:31):
And um, like I said, I had umone or two clients that sort of
off-handed had some work as faras uh shed rent to own
agreement.
And uh I took that and justthought, well, if these guys
need some work, there's probablymore out there.

(07:53):
There's probably something elseout there with this industry,
and um started looking aroundand found uh, like I said, found
NSRA, found Apro, and realizedthat this is a large, large
industry with people, greatpeople, wonderful people, but

(08:13):
that might need some uh legalcounsel somewhere along the way.
And um, you know, it started offwith doing things and still do,
um collection, repossession typework, because you know, with the
sheds, obviously we're talkingabout a much larger like cash
value of a property than some ofthe traditional Apro uh uh items

(08:38):
that you might rent on from afrom a store.
So you so there's a a i it's thesame transaction, but it's a
little bit of a difference interms of the legal world just
because there's a higher valueitem out there.
So started off doingcollections, repos, and um grew

(09:00):
from there to working oncontracts and bankruptcies and
uh business formations andoperation agreements, and it
just grew and grew and grew.
I had no idea, I didn't expectto have this as like a primary
part of my my practice.
I mean, that was uh certainlyunexpected, but it's been a

(09:21):
wonderful, wonderful opportunityand a great group of people to
work with, wonderful nichepractice area.
So it uh it really just kind ofhappened.
I mean, uh it was not somethingthat I originally uh thought of,
you know.

SPEAKER_00 (09:37):
It just I'm gonna fill you in on something, Nick.
Yeah.
Every time I do this show, oneof the main questions I ask is
how did you happen to get intothe RTO industry?
And everybody, and I'm I'mtelling you, we're batting
probably 99 out of 100.
I had no idea.
I don't know.
I it just something that came upand it was a big old hurdle, and
I stumbled right over it, andbefore I knew it, I was in it

(09:57):
100%.
Yeah.
You know, it's just it was justface first, and all of a sudden,
you know, 20 years later, I thisis what I do, you know?
It's true.
Same thing.

SPEAKER_02 (10:05):
Yeah, yeah.
And I think that's uh not anunfamiliar uh story for for
attorneys.
I mean, you know, fresh out oflaw school, I mean, who knows
what you're gonna do, whereyou're gonna develop a practice,
what you're gonna really loveabout the law.
Um, you know, and so it itreally was.

(10:26):
It was um it was a blessing anduh something that I really uh
enjoyed and so just tried togrow it and it's uh it's been
wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 (10:36):
So I gotta I got a question.
This is a I'm gonna I'm gonnawalk off the beaten path for
just one second.
Charles is a big he's on thehe's on the show all the time.
You know, we do a lot of thingstogether because Apro and the
RTO show are so close.
And uh I I jab him all the timebecause he's like one of the
smartest guys I know.
He's actually married to the oneof the other smartest people I
know.
But uh when you guys gettogether, is there just legal

(10:56):
jargon that flies everywhere andyou guys get deep into the
books?
Or how does that work?
I can just see you guys likelike you know having a drink and
just talking about all kinds ofwild stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (11:05):
I mean, that's I think that's true for any for
all lawyers.
I mean, people people like to uhbetter may not want to be around
because you can get you can getdeep in the weeds quick um with
legal stuff and legal jargon.
And yeah, but no, Charles is uhCharles is obviously awesome at
his job, does a wonderful,wonderful Freight Pro, and he's

(11:27):
been wonderful for us and theshed industry too.
And uh he he's great, a greatresource.

SPEAKER_00 (11:33):
He has been.
I agree with that.
So let me get back on trackhere.
Given all the stuff that you'veaccomplished, and then being
able to be in the rentoneindustry, and you do you do a
lot of things um day to day fromcompliance to contract review
revision, uh the UCC uh mattersand fair debt collection
practices and all this stuff.
What is probably one of thefirst things that when you get a

(11:54):
call from a client that's partof the NSRA, what is like one of
the first things that you hear?
Is it is it based on collectionsor is it like, you know, how do
I stay out of hot water, or I'malready in hot water, how do I
get out of it?
Like what is what is one of thefirst things that you get when
somebody calls you?

SPEAKER_02 (12:09):
Well, that's a good question.
And it really depends.
I mean, if it's somebody that Ihave a relationship with and
I've worked with over the years,usually it's that you know,
we're trying to stay ahead ofsome issue or uh come up with
come up with a new idea orsomething they want to run by
me, um, something like that.
Now, if it's the the flip sideof that is if it's somebody I've

(12:29):
not had a relationship with inthe past, it's usually that
something has gone terriblywrong.

SPEAKER_00 (12:34):
Anthony has gotten worse.
That's when I when I call myproducer, that's what it was.
He's like, he doesn't know me,but it's bad because I need you
now.
See, I understand that.
When you know them, it's like,hi, hey, dude, what's going on?
If not, it's like, yeah, you'rein trouble.
You shouldn't have done that.
Something went wrong.
Let Nick come to the aid, man.
Let me tell you.
So when when is the contractlanguage in what the sheds do,

(12:59):
is it different than theagreement language that we have
on a traditional side?
Have you been able to comparethose two and see?

SPEAKER_02 (13:05):
You know, for the most part, the the biggest um
the biggest um um issues are thesame.
So uh I mean, you know, like thethings that keep it an RTO
transaction are the same,whether it's a TV, a couch, or a
big shed.
Um we're still talking about thesame the same documents, the

(13:30):
same uh disclosures that arerequired state to state.
Uh you know, and so each stateuh has a rental purchase
agreement act uh pretty muchevery state.
I think it's 47 out of 50.
Correct.
And um you know, and so each oneis a little bit different.
There a lot of them aregenerally the same, but yeah, in

(13:53):
terms of the transaction, it isthe same um for for sheds, and
it's the same for uh for atraditional rent-owned type.

SPEAKER_00 (14:04):
So we fall under a lot of the same laws.
Yes.
Okay, so if somebody so whensomebody has a company, right,
and they they cross state lines,and we we have guys that are
in-state only and they onlyworry about the Florida
statutes, and then you got somepeople that are you know
multi-state, they're they'recrossing state lines.
How is it how how important areyou in those conversations when
you're going, okay, you're basedout of Florida, but you've got

(14:25):
something in Georgia, Louisiana,North Carolina, and we've got to
tweet this out.
I mean, those got to be somepretty, pretty in-depth
conversations.

SPEAKER_02 (14:32):
Absolutely.
And um, it's very important,obviously, because some states
are more litigious than others,and some are easier to deal
with, and some are not, some arebut worse.
Um, you know, but yeah, anytimeyou're looking at going into a
new state, it's very importantto get a full picture of what
you're going into and uh fullpicture of what their

(14:53):
disclosures require.

SPEAKER_00 (14:54):
Let me ask you something.
Are you getting everything outof your rent-to-owned business?
If you're not an April member,then the answer is probably no.
Look, advocacy is April's breadand butter.
This is why they were createdand what they do best.
But here's the thing Aprilmembership is about way more
than advocacy.
April connects you to the moversand the shakers of the industry,

(15:15):
people who've been there, donethat, and they could help you do
it even better.
APRO's monthly webinars give youexpert insights and actionable
takeaways.
It's like having a masterclassfor your business every single
month.
Got questions about complexregulations or sticky
situations?
No problem.
April's Legal Hotline gives youdirect access to experts who
have got the answers.
That's a peace of mind that youcan't put a price on.

(15:37):
And let's not forget theresources, news, updates, and
tools that keep you ahead of thecurb.
Scholarships for your team?
Check.
Disaster relief when you need itmost?
Double check.
APRO is your ultimate supportsystem in the rent-to-own world.
So stop settling for less.
With APRO members, get more.
More support, more connections,more success.

(15:57):
Head over to rtohq.org and jointhe APRO family today.
Because in this business, moreisn't just better, it's
essential.
See you at the top with APRO.

SPEAKER_02 (16:09):
Another important thing with that, too, that uh
sometimes gets missed is theadvertising uh requirements and
disclosures because you knowsome states may have a specific
advertising statute that sayyou've got if you if you
advertise at all, you've got toput out the full uh gamut of in
terms of what the cash price is,what the RTO price is, you know,

(16:32):
what the cost of the lease is.
And some are and some yeah, soso you have to have a uh I think
a uh basically a sales sticker,you know, or something like that
if you're if you're advertisingin certain states.
So you know, you may be you maybe operating in one state and
advertising in some others.
You need to be aware of whatthose requirements are.

SPEAKER_00 (16:56):
I I did not know that.
Actually, I I would I wouldfigure it'd be more in
collections on the collectionside.
Can you imagine, Anthony?
We're trying to read the longlist of stuff because we're on
radio, and then you got the yougot the you remember that guy
who had the little cars in thespeeds to speed read?
You remember that?
You know, come get the sofa overhere, and you know, Bob's rent
to own, and then you gotta go tothe prices and make sure it's up
there's one of the mother micromachines.
The micro machines, that's it.

(17:16):
That was the guy, right?
So you know, you get a 30-secondad and 15% 15 seconds of that is
just this the guy speed readingall the stuff that you gotta do.
Right.
But I figured it would be moreon the collection side because I
do and I and I I guess you'vejust never really done.
I've never been in your issuesin that sense, but like, you
know, I figured I I've seen somecollection differences between
one state and another, how manytimes you're allowed to call,
how many messages you can leave,and what can you leave, what can

(17:39):
you say, what can you do whenyou're at the home, what can you
say, and what can you do whetherthey're there or not there?
So I know that that's always uhyou know an important it's
always important to make sureyou know all the laws, but going
in between states, like that's alot of laws to know.
Real quick, do you what whatwould be two states that you're
saying, you know, that you wouldin your mind go, these are
completely different?

(18:00):
Like one goes, you know, it'sit's pretty simple, easy going,
and one is like completelydifferent.
Do you I mean, would you knowthat offhand?

SPEAKER_02 (18:07):
Yeah, so I think if a state like uh California, um
he had a he shot out ofCalifornia for I should have I
should have known that.

SPEAKER_00 (18:15):
I mean, Cali is like they have their own branding.
This is already and in 49 statesit's good, but not in
California.
Like we this we do we have ourown way of doing it over here.

SPEAKER_02 (18:24):
That's right.
I mean, you know, it it is whatit is, but uh uh uh so sorry to
all my California friends.
Uh uh throw them out there.
But they're they're just onethat where where it's a little
different.
Um, you know, certain types ofuh and I think of a state like
New York where you have a um adisclosure requirement where you
have to have a certain box inyour lease and and it has to

(18:47):
spell out certain items.
And and uh California came tomind because of a uh maintenance
issue.
I think it's where they uh youknow you as the less lessor are
required to maintain theproperty.
Um in most other states you canput the maintenance requirement

(19:08):
onto the customer, which is uhreally a big issue with sheds.
You know, if you have a a um anissue with your shed, you you
you um you're you areresponsible in California for
going out there and makingchairs fixed, whatever.
And um so I compare that with astate like you know, Mississippi

(19:29):
where I am, or uh Texas, whereyou you may not have that type
of a requirement, um a bit morelaid back on some of the
disclosures, um things likethat.
Yeah, and then and then you havesome states like uh West
Virginia comes to mind wherewe've had some litigation in the

(19:50):
past several years, uh, which isuh something that you really
want to be aware of.
And so and has maybe somerequirements like the caps that
you are allowed to charge for anitem.
So I think in West Virginia it's240% of the cash price.

SPEAKER_01 (20:09):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (20:10):
So you you know, and then you have like Mississippi,
there's no no such cap.
It's basically just what themarket bears.
So you know, those are some someof the big differences uh state
to state.
You also have things like thereinstatement provisions that
vary from there's there's somany out there for

(20:32):
reinstatement.
And um I was interested tolearn.

SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
I put him on the spot.
He doesn't have the nose, I puthim on the spot.
He's like, Man, he had to ask methat.
There's like 15 different ones,Pete.
There's 15 different ones outthere.

SPEAKER_02 (20:43):
But but but Pete, I was interested to learn at APRO
at the legislative conferencethat we went to, that a lot of
the companies through APRO offersome sort of a lifetime
reinstatement.

SPEAKER_00 (20:59):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (20:59):
You know, and that that's new to me.
I got that that's new to me interms of the sheds.
That's not something that I'veseen in the shed world.
And so that was interesting.

SPEAKER_00 (21:09):
I don't know how the logistics work on that.
You know, if I bring one backand then, you know, if if if
it's sold or whatever the caseis, do I get something back in
equal or the same value, butit's a different color, it's a
different model, whatever thecase is, do I come back to the
same?
So I I do understand that thatmight be a little different, but
it could be an avenue to getpeople back on the books, you
know, so to speak.
Um because that is somethingthat we do.

(21:29):
It's a little easier for a couchand a TV, but I will say that I
mean, if it's something that youguys uh don't do, maybe, you
know, always looking at newavenues and ways to make it
work.
I'm glad you mentioned New Yorkbecause uh, you know, there's
some there's some current casesin New York.
There are two laws that arereally kind of standing out.
How does that uh do they affectthe shed rent to own side as
well?
Because I know that it's reallygoing to affect the furniture

(21:51):
side.

SPEAKER_02 (21:51):
You know, I'm not I I I've not explored that uh
much, and that's a a good point.
I need to probably Get in onthat, but um it's not something
that has uh come across my deskyet.
Um so I need to I need to checkin on that before I say

(22:12):
something that I that Ishouldn't.

SPEAKER_00 (22:14):
Well I tell you what right now, the next time you
talk to Charlie, you say,Listen, Pete told me, and I need
to talk to you about those twolaws in New York, and we gotta
we gotta figure out if I'm if weare gonna be involved in that
because the NSRA could couldunfortunately be inadvertently
involved into it.
And then you got all stuff thatyou gotta kind of retroactively
go after once you once all theselaws are passed instead of being
more active on it.

(22:34):
You know.
So what what talking about someof the things that you do,
because I know that you handlesome bankruptcy as far as
something goes, you know, um alot of rent-to-owned dealers
don't think about bankruptcy asthey're going into it, right?
They're thinking either, youknow, repossession if they can't
pay for it, or they pay it off,they do some type of same as
cash.
They get it, it gets taken careof.
We we do that.
But bankruptcy is not somethingthat they think about.

(22:55):
How does that work in the shedindustry as far as the
rent-to-owned shed side?

SPEAKER_02 (22:59):
Well, it's um it's a it's a project that I've uh
really enjoyed, actually.
And it's something that I dothink guys on your side should
should look into because there'sso much in the bankruptcy world
that you as the leasing companycan do yourself.
You don't have to have a lawyerto go file your own proof of
claim, your own uh, you know,file a request for notice so you

(23:24):
stay on track of what's beingfiled in the case.
And what I've tried to do isjust work on that education side
of it, work with my clients anduh leasing companies in terms of
what you can do that you don'tneed me for.
So I'll train you, I'll trainyour staff, and that way you
don't you don't need a lawyer.

(23:45):
You know, in a in a bigpercentage of the bankruptcy
cases, you know, the leasingcompanies can can do those
things themselves.
If you learn how to file a proofof claim, uh if you learn to
call the debtor's lawyer andtalk to them about it, uh you
can resolve so many issues.

(24:05):
And you can probably get paid,if not the full value.
You you're gonna get probablysome money out of it that you
wouldn't have otherwise gotten.
So in the bankruptcy side uh forsheds, it's um uh you know, same
same process.
It's uh it's a uh lease, it's atrue lease for purposes of
bankruptcy.
So you should not be classifiedas a secured claim, but but as a

(24:29):
true lease.
So what that means is thecustomer has to either assume
the lease in its entirety orreject the lease.
And um, if they assume it, theyshould keep paying you just like
they were directly through theuh plan.
Now there's some caveats to allthat, but in a perfect world,

(24:51):
that's how it would work.

SPEAKER_00 (24:53):
Perfect world.
And I love the perfect worldsound.
I need to go there.
But so Nick, tell me about itbecause you you're you're saying
things that really resonate withthe traditional side.
I would love to see you at RTOWorld having a one-hour segment
where you're telling people whatthey can and should do, whether
they, you know, whether theyneed to get a lawyer or not.

(25:14):
At least these are the stepsthat you can take in your state
to do something better, or atleast, you know, hey, I
represent these many states.
This is what I can tell you inthese states.
Because I know guys who wouldreally, really be interested in
what you have to say.
Again, Charles, give me a call.
But I'm just saying, it's my i iI would I think that it would
have some traction.
And if it doesn't, we need tohave another podcast where we're
doing nothing but bankruptcy.

(25:34):
Because I can tell you right nowthat is fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 (25:37):
Well, um, you know, it it's uh obviously bankruptcy
is a federal system, so you haveso much state to state that you
that is that is the same.
You know, you have the sameforms.
Yeah, you so you're not dealingwith state-specific issues a lot
of the time.
I mean, you s withstate-specific laws you are, but
like is the terms of the formsand the practice and the

(26:00):
procedure, what you do inbankruptcy is pretty uniform
state to state.
Um, and at least in Mississippi,and then I, you know, I do
bankruptcy work in Texas andsome in North Carolina too, but
I find that the bankruptcy baris pretty small.
The guys that you tend to runinto in terms of who the

(26:21):
debtor's lawyers are are thesame guys you see over and over
and over and over again.
So you develop a relationshipwith those people.
And what you what I end up doinga lot of times is I'm training
them uh on how they should befiling their bankruptcy cases so
that they don't have to respondto an objection because they get

(26:42):
paid, you know, basically a flatfee for filing a bankruptcy
case.
Right.
They don't get paid anymore forresponding to my motion or
arguing with them about the sothey don't they don't want to.
They don't want to have to fightwith us about it.
So once they kind of understandthe transaction and know what
the deal is, they know to fileit as a lease.

(27:02):
And it just, you know, after atime or two, you get real
comfortable with it, and um, youknow, you have a lot less
problems down the road.

SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
Aaron Powell What would you say is one of the
biggest uh mistakes that you seewhen an RTO dealer is dealing
with a bankruptcy case thatcomes across their desk.
I have Miss Jones now who's nowin bankruptcy.
What's what are some of the thethe shortfalls or the pitfalls
you see them doing right upfront that you're like, uh you
probably shouldn't have donethat, or or let me advise you.

SPEAKER_02 (27:28):
Well, but probably the the wor you know the worst
is when eh put that bankruptcynotice.
I'll put that on the back of mydesk and I'll think about it
tomorrow.
I'll think about it tomorrow,then I'll think about it next
week.
You know, um the the um I thinkit's uh what is the quote?

(27:50):
The best thing to do is theright thing, and the second best
thing to do is something.
You know, you just be active.
Do something.
It's just look at the you youyou have really important
deadlines in bankruptcy case, ina bankruptcy c case, and you
know, deadlines to file yourclaim, deadlines to respond to
certain motions or objections.

(28:11):
And so, you know, if you justput it away and don't do
anything, you know, you'reobviously gonna run the risk of
not being able to respond.
So that's the that's the biggesthurdle is just getting people
comfortable.
You know, a lot of people justdon't like the idea of I gotta

(28:31):
do something about thisbankruptcy case.
Just just getting people andcompanies comfortable with the
response.

SPEAKER_00 (28:40):
Well, you're absolutely right about that.
Because the last one I got, Ididn't want to touch it with a
10-foot pole.
It's sat on my desk and I thinkit started beating its own
heart, and I was just like, no,you know, darn you.
Um really do.
But yeah, and that's why I said,like, I, you know, if if you
don't end up doing that, I wouldlove to have you on again to
have that conversation aboutbankruptcy.

(29:01):
Because listen, there's a lot ofguys that I know are going
through something at thismoment, and they're like, I'm
trying to do it myself.
I don't really know if this isright.
I I ended up having to hire alawyer because I don't know what
to do.
And it's like, and and here'sthe thing, and I'm not trying to
blame anybody.
I understand why people go intobankruptcy, I understand what's
going on, but from a dealerside, the question is how much

(29:22):
time am I spending on this?
How much time am I getting, youknow, how much am I spending
with my legal counsel?
How much is that gonna cost meversus what I'm getting out of
it?
Now, the traditional side mightbe a little different because
you know, sofa and loves orbedroom sets or dining room
tables, they have a finiteamount that they're worth,
right?
So the first time that I go tolegal counsel and we sit down
for two hours, it's not worth itfor me to go for anything.

(29:46):
So, and again, I'm not sayingthat, you know, as a consumer,
that's not a concern.
Of course, obviously, if you'rein bankruptcy, it's because you
have something going on.
But dealers also want to protecttheir assets as well.
So as it's as it's coming in,you know, there's always that,
all right, what can I do to makethis more beneficial for myself
instead of just going straightto the bottom line and writing

(30:06):
it off?
Because the moment that I getsomebody involved, you know,
yes, this term might be 18months and we're only three
months into it, but is it reallyworth what I'm gonna spend as
soon as I pay an hourly rate oreven a flat rate or whatever the
case is?
So I'd love to have thatconversation with you.
You know, uh, you're gonna haveto put, you're gonna have to I
I'm just gonna tell AnthonyKnight, you gotta put that on
the calendar, man.
We gotta, we gotta reach outagain.

SPEAKER_02 (30:27):
So Yeah, we could spend we could spend, you know,
we could spend hours on that.

SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
We're gonna book a few hours on that one, Anthony.
Listen, you guys might fallasleep a couple times, but it's
worth listening to.
I'm gonna tell you right now.
It's a marathon.
We're gonna have to parts.
We can do that in parts.
We can do this the bankruptcyseries with Nick.
I like that.
Yeah.
So talk to me about your role inthe NSR race.
So you serve as legal uhadvisor, and you're on the board

(30:51):
of directors, uh, and it's madeup of the board, it's made up of
uh RTO owners and and CEOs andstuff.
Uh it was founded in 2009 byLeland Ulrich, and 2009, when
when we were talking about Apriland the things that I've done
because I've gone through theLegends series, we're talking
about the early 80s.
So the NSRA is not really thatold.

(31:12):
So you know, I I had somequestions in here on the later
half, and I was like, wait aminute, but it hasn't been here
as long as April has, it hasn'tbeen here as long as some other
things.
So maybe that's why there isn'tso much crossover, which we'll
get into.
But, you know, how did you getconnected with the NSRA
directly?
So you got into the legaladvisory role, so you you you

(31:32):
obviously found it, and thenthey were like, Nick, come here,
we like you that much.
Like we we need this, we needsomebody who knows something
about bankruptcy.
So, like, how did that comeabout?
So you found rent to own andthen NSRA, and then you're on
the board.
I mean, this is just like arocket trajectory.
How did this happen?

SPEAKER_02 (31:49):
Well, I uh so I was uh I was a member of the
advisory board, which was justuh, you know, trying to help
them steer steer through the allthe issues that they deal with.
But now I'm just uh generalcounsel to the board.
So I'm not actually a boardmember, uh, but I I advise the
board.
And you know, it's just years ofrelationship building and uh

(32:11):
going to meetings and uhattending their events, going to
an April event, and you just uhdevelop those relationships and
um work with people that youknow and trust and who who come
to know and trust you.
And so we had a uh at some pointearly on there was um there was

(32:35):
an attorney involved that thatwas helping the board some and
uh eventually uh I I was able toto uh start doing that as well
and and I took took over thatposition and became counsel to
the uh to the board of directorsand it's been wonderful.

(32:58):
It's just it's made up of suchgood people, um you know that
are that are passionate aboutthis industry and about their
sheds.
And um it's been a it's been agreat process and a great
learning experience, honestly.
Um and uh they're they're justthey're just great people, happy

(33:18):
to be a part of uh we callourselves, we kind of leech on
to the mothership of April.
You know, we're we're sort of uhunderneath that big umbrella,
and um you know it's just been afun, fun experience.

SPEAKER_00 (33:31):
Well, I want to get to know the shed guys better.
I'd love to see a lot more ofyou at the April events.
I actually wanted to get withyou at some point because I
actually want to see if I canmake it to some of the shed
events just to be involved inthat because the RTO show covers
everything.
So this year I made a promisemyself one of the business plans
that I came up with earlier thisyear was not only is it going to
be the traditional rent to own,it's gonna be the tire and

(33:53):
wheel, it's gonna be the shed,and we're gonna incorporate
virtual rent to own.
So that's what I'm working onthis year to kind of start
incorporating all that.
And when I seen that you guyswere there, I was like, oh my
God, I this is something that Ireally don't know about.
I'd like to know more about it.
I think the listeners would too.
So I definitely want to be apart of that.
Now, I will not say that I'venever listened to any other
podcast about what's going on,but we shall not mention their

(34:14):
name on here.
But we will say that I'm veryinterested in finding out about
it.
And that's how I found out alittle bit about what I did.
And, you know, going forward,like I just want it to be all
encompassed.
I want to have all part of that.
So I'm going to lean on you alittle bit, if you don't mind,
at some point in time to belike, hey, I got to get involved
in those people.
But is it safe to say likeyou're like, and and this is
just for the listeners so thatwe can say that you're like the

(34:34):
Ed Win of the NSRA?

SPEAKER_02 (34:36):
Is that kind of I I I can't I can't go there.
I can there's there's no suchthing as anybody being the Ed
Win of something.

SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
Well we got some follow-up.
Hey, listen, Dick, I'm justreading on here, man.
There's a lot of weight on thispaper.
I think you're doing a great jobso far.
So I'm just gonna say that.

SPEAKER_02 (34:53):
Um Well, it's yeah, no, it's it's it's fun.
It's fun, it's a fun job, anduh, you know, it's it's
wonderful.
But yeah, come come to come toan event.

SPEAKER_00 (35:04):
You never work a day in your life if you're doing
what you love.
That's true.
But I will tell you, with thatstatement comes, you work a lot.
Yeah, it might not feel likework, but you end up working a
whole lot more.
So way more.
Way more, right?
So is there anything coming upbesides New York?
Is there anything coming up onthe legislative uh shelf there
that you're going, hey, you knowwhat?
We need to pay attention to thison the shed side, or maybe even

(35:25):
the traditional side, and go,this is probably something that
you guys want to be aware of.
I know you said something aboutWest Virginia.
Is there something coming up onthe horizon that maybe somebody
as a rental-owned dealer shouldbe looking out for?

SPEAKER_02 (35:34):
You know, um I I try to stay abreast of uh all the
changes and updates, and uh Iget updates weekly on my in my
email from my Lexus account andGmail and Google.
I set all these alerts.
Um and when we were in DC, itwas sort of refreshing because

(35:57):
we uh didn't have anything onthe federal side that we were
really worried about.
Um you mentioned the issue inNew York, but other than than
those things, there's not awhole lot of uh urgent pressure
that that that I see thatanything's barreling down or
breathing down our necks, whichis good.

(36:18):
We like it that way.
Um so I'm happy with where weare.
Um I'm happy with uh therethere's always some things we I
would like to see cleaned up andyou know state from state to
state, but but it's staying onthe offensive like we did in in
DC, you know, and not having toplay defense so much.

(36:40):
But uh so so no, I I'm I'm umI'm I'm happy.
Now one thing that is sort ofinteresting that I see a lot of
uh here lately is talk aboutrent to own housing.
That has been kicked around alot, and um and they use this

(37:02):
term rent-to-owned housing.
It's really not a rent to owntransaction, it's something
different.
And I would like to see usdistance ourselves, you know, at
least on the shed side and andum from from people that are
that are using that term andthat are uh engaging in that.

(37:26):
In fact, when we were in DC, uha couple of legislative aides
asked if this had to do with thehousing bill that had that had
passed lately, and we were like,no, this is totally different.
So um, you know, it's not somuch of a of a major issue, but
something that I'm aware ofbecause I just don't want it, I

(37:49):
don't want to see that crossoverand that you know, people
getting confused about what whatyou know Apro clients and what
NSRA shed builders are doingversus what somebody call
calling a rent-owned housingmarket is doing.

SPEAKER_00 (38:07):
So, you know, a little bit behind the scenes, I
probably get hit up once ortwice a month by somebody who's
looking up the keywords of rentto own, and they I get them all
the time, and they'll be in theuh they'll be in the inbox, hey,
we want to schedule a podcast,hey, we want to do this.
Guys, I I we don't do the samething.
I'm like, and I tell them allthe time, I can tell you didn't
go to the website because wedon't do the same thing, it's
just not the same transaction.
So I agree with you 100%.

(38:28):
Um because I even looked intoit, I looked into said, oh, this
is not, I don't, I don't wantanything to do with that.
I don't want to, I don't want tomuddy those waters.

SPEAKER_01 (38:35):
No.

SPEAKER_00 (38:35):
Um so I noticed the NSRA is working toward company
certification and industrystandards.
Is that is is that from kind ofwhat APRO has done and said,
hey, these are the bylaws thatwe go by.
This is how we expect you tokind of conduct yourself to be a
member of APRO, so that's howyou can expect them to be as a
member of the NSRA.
Like there's certain bylaws andthings that we want you to do,

(38:55):
certain way that you're gonnatreat the customer, certain way
that you that you treat, youknow, certain instances, whether
it be bankruptcy, whether it beyour collection practices and
stuff like that.
Is that kind of the same?

SPEAKER_02 (39:04):
Yes, yes, I would say so.
And uh, we adopted a code ofethics back um maybe last year
or in the last 18 months.
And really that was adopted umin large part with uh uh talking
with uh Charles and and Apro.
And let me just again say thatCharles was really the driving a

(39:28):
driving force in thiscollaboration and um how how
great that is because we've seenon the shed side uh great
teamwork between Apro and NSRand um and and how happy I am
for that.
And Charles has just uh been adriving force for that, which

(39:52):
has been wonderful.
And uh so yeah, we in fact afterthe APRO event in Omaha last
year, I got with Charles and umand uh and used some of his
slides for my for a sli for atalk I gave later.
We borrowed, we borrowed,borrowed, we borrowed, we
borrowed, uh with permission.

(40:16):
But uh but yeah, so so whatwe're trying to do at NSRA is
we've launched a membership uhcampaign for shed dealers and
shed manufacturers, rentalcompanies.
And um yeah, and part part ofthe idea behind that is you
know, you we want to hold eachother to a higher standard.

(40:38):
We want to make sure that peoplewho are members of the NSRA are
agreeing to abide by thesebylaws and these um, you know,
code code of ethics that we'retreating people the right way,
and that we you can stand outamong um to to your customers
as, hey, I'm a member of of theNSRA and I agree with all these

(41:00):
things.
We've so so that is that's beena driving force behind it, is
just trying to be the uh youknow the rising tide uh for the
industry, and um and I thinkthat's been a key part of it.

SPEAKER_00 (41:15):
I mean, I love it because it it really does,
especially when you're going toDC on a federal level, to be
able to say that for we're atwe're representing the
association, that if you are apart of the association, you
have to fall within theseguidelines.
You have to collect right, youhave to sell right, you have to
disclose right, you have to makesure that you treat everybody
with this certain type ofunderstanding that hey, you are

(41:35):
number one.
We're not going to treat yousecondary or or any less for
being what you know in thesituation that you're in, if
you're in any situation or not.
And uh I think that does standout.
Now, you know, we had talked alittle bit earlier about getting
you the bankruptcy uh talk uh atRTO World, uh which is happening
in August of this year.
But like, is there a shed RTOworld for lack of a better term?

(41:57):
Is there is there like a youknow what you do in the NSRA for
that?

SPEAKER_02 (42:02):
Yes, good good question.
We're gonna have a um Shed eventcoming up in September.
Uh we'll have the NSRA event,and uh that'll be in Knoxville.
So it's I think it's off the topof my head, I think it's the
week of the 20th or 21st in inKnoxville.

(42:22):
Um yeah, that last year they puton a great event.
Uh the board uh does it all.
I mean, it's a it's a wonderful,you know, non-paid group of
people that do it out of youknow, love of the industry, and
they they put on a they put on afabulous event.
And so we're we're we'rerolling, we're rolling right

(42:45):
now.
I mean, we're only uh what aboutfour months out.
So uh gearing up for that.

SPEAKER_00 (42:52):
And uh I'm gonna do some homework, Anthony.
We've got to figure this oneout.
I know that we're gonna be atRTO World.
Um, I'm dragging Anthony alongwith me.
We're gonna do some stuff overthere.
I don't know if we'll make ittogether over that one, but I
would love to see at least, youknow, maybe I get one ticket.
We'll we'll see, Anthony.
We'll see how good RTO World is.
But uh, you know, I would loveto be a part of it uh in some
capacity as far as like you knowseeing it and what is you know,

(43:15):
any of the meetings or whathappens.
Now, I know that in RTO worldfor the traditional side, there
are meetings ahead of time.
Now, there's the legal councilmeeting, there's a woman's
forum, and then you know, itgoes into a day of of basic
learning.
You know, there there's thatindustry training, there's that,
you know, that April, this isthis is what we give back,

(43:36):
right?
So you have those meetings wherethis is how you sell, this is
how you collect, this is how youdo the back end, this is how you
hire, this is how you maintain,this is leadership training and
stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 (43:45):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (43:46):
And then after that, you you go into the hot show and
you go into the sales eventwhere the expo is, and you go
and you buy stuff and you allhave a good time.
Is that kind of laid out thesame way?

SPEAKER_02 (43:56):
It's similar.
I mean, from year to year, someof the uh topics.
And speakers change, and someyears we may be more focused on
uh because for the NSRA event,it's a one-day event.
So some years it may be morefocused on rent-to-on management
companies and collections.
Some years it may be morefocused on uh building and

(44:19):
manufacturing.
And um, so um, you know, it itchanges from year to year.
We have a lot of a lot in theterms of the leadership world,
uh wonderful uh speakers.
You know, we've had uhastronauts, we've had uh Secret
Service guys, and um yeah,really, really cool, powerful

(44:41):
speakers.
John Delaney came last year, andum uh you know, so so a lot lot
of uh focus on on the leadershipaspect of it.
But yeah, and then um there's uhthere's usually some nuts and
bolts type breakout sessions.

(45:03):
So we'll have a breakout sessionwhere we may have uh one group
talking about uh software,software companies and different
different things like that.
I'll do a legal uh updateusually.

SPEAKER_00 (45:17):
Hey everyone, it's Pete Chao here from the RTO Show
Podcast, and I want to tell youabout a company that's making a
real difference in therent-to-owned space, WoW brands.
I've seen firsthand how theyapproach marketing.
Let me tell you, it's not justabout ads.
WoW Brands builds completedigital ecosystems designed
specifically for therent-to-owned industry.
Their e-commerce and leadgeneration strategies are built

(45:39):
to bring in qualified leads.
And did I mention that they areactively working with the
rent-town industry while alsobeing members of APRO and Trib?
Listen, these folks arepassionate problem solvers.
They don't just slap somethingtogether, they design, build,
and scale the kind of digitalretail tools your business needs
and your customers actuallywant.
So if you're serious aboutgrowing, reach out to Wild

(46:01):
Brands at WoWBrands.com.
I trust them, and I think youwill too.

SPEAKER_02 (46:06):
We'll have um somebody doing marketing uh
update or a marketing uhbreakout, sales breakout, um,
different things like that.
There's also other events otherover the year that um I've
actually never been to.
There's something called theshed hauler bash, which is where

(46:28):
the sheds fun, right?

SPEAKER_00 (46:30):
I mean, just thinking about it, right?

SPEAKER_02 (46:32):
And I've not been, and I've gotta go.
But these shed, the hauler guysget together and they put on a
big event and uh get to show offall their uh toys and you know
their big moving equipment andstuff.
And I I think I think they havea big time, but I have not I've
not been.
So Pete, that may be somethingwe need to uh tag along to.

SPEAKER_00 (46:53):
We I uh all right, we gotta we got a third party
now.
We need to go, we need to go.
That's what he's saying.
We need to go check out what'sgoing on over there.
I would I would love to see twotwo guys just with some sheds
going down like the thing, andwho's who hauls it faster,
quicker, right?
I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (47:06):
It's sort of I I envision it as like those old uh
you know, where we had the twoguys up there doing the chainsaw
and like who could cut the woodthe fast.
Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 (47:15):
It's like one of those.
Who's gonna I'm looking for I'mlooking forward.
I would love to see it.
I just hadn't hadn't gotten toit yet.
So from your vantage point, howhave these events changed a
legal conversation in the shedRTO space?
I mean, has the N do you feellike the N since its inception,
has the NSRA really made adifference in the RTO industry

(47:39):
as far as Shed?
And can you really can you canyou almost tangibly see like
this is where it was?
Now these bylaws are here, thecode of ethics, this is what we
do.
They have a legal council, we'regetting together, we're now
taking place and part of some ofthe stuff that Apro does at
LEGCCon.
Like, is this is this a trail ofbreadcrumbs that you can see a
like steady growth in the NSRA?

SPEAKER_02 (48:00):
Yeah, yeah, uh it is, and um we've gotten more and
more buy-in and more and moremembership.
Um and then the the partnershipwith April has been great to
help that as well.
You know, we do a NSRA boardmeeting.
Uh in two I guess we have twoin-person board meetings a year,

(48:22):
and one will take place at uhRTO World this year.
So uh Charles has been beengreat to uh allow us to have
some space there to have a boardmeeting.
So we'll we'll all be downthere.
And uh you need to come comemeet some of the other guys.
But um yeah, and and then andand it you you've I've just seen

(48:44):
it over the years grow from uhfrom a really sm you know
close-knit small group to uhsomething that you know we're s
we're in a a a much bigger spacefor our event now.
Um you you see people fromacross the country that that
come and um it it it feels likewe we've we've made a difference

(49:09):
in terms of um the quality ofthe of the product, the quality
of the uh the contract, thequality of the uh start to
finish transaction, therelationship with the customers.
It's just wonderful people thatare a part of the NSRA, and I I
can say that without withouthesitation, that it really is

(49:33):
great people and uh wonderfulclients.
So yeah, I think I think it's uhyou know, we're certainly still
growing, and uh we've got a alot of momentum, and um so we'll
we're we're gonna keep that at.

SPEAKER_00 (49:49):
Well, with the advent of the growth of the NSRA
and way the way that April isand how Charles and yourself are
kind of ushering those to helpone another, do you see a
crossover happening or morecrossovers happening in the
future between the NSRA andApril and and us going there and
the you know, some of some ofthe guys from the RTO shed

(50:09):
industry coming to our events aswell?

SPEAKER_02 (50:12):
Yes, yes.
Um course I was in DC um thispast uh April and um Justin
Hosey came to uh the shed theshed event last year.
Charles was uh was unable tomake it, but he was he was
planning to be there.
He he something came up, hecouldn't make it.

(50:33):
But yeah, and uh and uh andwe'll be at um at RTO World and
um just continue to collaborate.
In fact, we're we're working ona um uh a project with with
Charles and Apro where we'redoing our data collection um you

(50:55):
know, sort of a um uh the stateof the industry, I guess, for
the shed for the shed side,which is something that the NSR
has attempted to do in the past,but really it didn't it never
quite got off the ground.
Um you know, despite the thegood intentions, the uh the

(51:15):
product just wasn't wasn't whatwe needed.
So um we are excited to be doinga a new industry survey this
year, and that is uh as apartner through April, and we
could not uh do it without them.
And so they've been they've beengracious to do that because what

(51:36):
it's gonna do is really help usall.
I mean, we'll be able to feedthe uh shed numbers, basically
what we find out from the termsof the shed industry's uh growth
and and numbers and feed it intothe to the Apro numbers, which
uh should give us a biggeroverall picture of the industry.

SPEAKER_00 (51:58):
I think Nick's looking at my numbers.
I think he's looking at mythat's exactly what I was gonna
ask you next.
Um so I'm gonna I'm gonna changeit up really, really quick and
actually something a littledifferent so it doesn't look
like you've been reading mynotes.
But um as we go through this, Iwas I would tell you guys,
listen, I I am I am so lookingforward to kind of that
crossover.
I'm looking forward to be a partof of what's going on the shed
side because it is new to me.

(52:19):
I have done nothing buttraditional RTO for the last 20
years.
I am now in tire and wheel, andI can tell you I learned
something new every single day.
Uh, if you guys are new tolistening to the show, please
give me a call.
Feel free to call me, talk tome, email me, and if you guys
want to uh do a littlesponsorship, we're not gonna
argue.
Now, talking about that, what isthe do you have any numbers as

(52:41):
far as the scale of what youknow the rent-to-owned shed site
is now annually?

SPEAKER_02 (52:46):
It would be a total, total shot in the dark.
Uh I have some ideas, but youknow, I don't I don't know that
I want to uh throw that outthere.
I don't have a totally wrong.
I could be completely wrong.
But I think I think it'll Ithink that it will show a um a
decent percentage um in terms ofthe overall uh RTO industry.

(53:12):
I think I think that I thinkthat we'll add some numbers to
the bottom line of what the uhof what you know APRO was able
to put out on those legislativedocuments that we were able to
pass out to the to the uhlegislators and the and their
aides.
So yeah, I think we'll I thinkcoming back next year,

(53:33):
hopefully, we'll see we'll seesort of that the bigger overall
picture of that.

SPEAKER_00 (53:39):
Well, you know, looking at it and and looking in
my notes, because this is thisis something that I I've really
been curious about, being that Imean, technically we're cousins
as far as industries go, um, youknow, what has kept us from
getting here until now?
Like, why 2026?
Well, how come this didn'thappen years and years ago when
we're talking about sharingresources or lobbying together

(54:01):
or even cross-refcross-referencing some of the
same customers that we have?
I mean, I would imagine thatwe're aimed for the same target
demographic.
I know that sheds probably don'tdo great in the city, but as far
as the rural areas, I mean,we're targeting the same people.
In your opinion, in yourprofessional opinion, why is it
why haven't we done thisearlier?

SPEAKER_02 (54:21):
I I think the NSRA was so was so small, and and we
were just such a you know littlesubset of of the overall
industry.
I mean, we had we had guys fromthe NSRA that are that were you
know shed dealers going to Aprilevents in the past, um, but you

(54:41):
know, it was just for their ownindividual businesses and to
learn about rent to own ingeneral.
And um, you know, I think justas time goes on, we've um we've
kind of grown up a little bit onthe shed side.
We've kind of grown up into theto be a a a bigger part of of

(55:03):
the overall shed industry.
And you know, we just uh havebeen able to I mean obviously Ed
Ed came to our events in thepast and uh did his did his
speech and you know it's justwe're we're basically operating
separately and um but but partof the same deal and I just

(55:27):
think over time uh you start tosee um ways that we can work
with each other better and ittook it took uh some some vision
from from Charles and the teamtoo to uh just really help lay
that found foundation andgroundwork.

(55:49):
And um, yeah, it just takes alittle bit of time and effort to
get that kicked off, and thenyou get a little trickle and it
just continues to grow and grow.
And I think that's just that'sjust the the nature of the of
the process.

SPEAKER_00 (56:03):
Well, I will say uh, you know, I think it's getting
together.
I think I I see some crossroadscoming up.
I see this is like in itsinfantile situation where it's
not as big yet, but I think it'sgonna get there.
I love to be a part of that.
I want to be on the front end ofthat because I really, really
think that this is someintegration that we should
really do.
I mean, I know guys like uh DanJobrak of of Data True who would

(56:26):
probably love to have one of youguys sit down in front of him
and he can explain what he doesbecause it there's some
greatness in there.
I don't want to I don't want tosteal any of his thunder, but if
you guys ever reach out to Dan,tell him that the RTO show
essentially it's it's a it's acustomer program, it's a great
program to be a part of.
Um, you know, looking ahead andand and you know, as we as we
start winding down and coming toan end, like you've built a

(56:47):
practice around an industrywhere most attorneys have never
really been a part of or or doneat all, which sets you kind of
apart.
Um, do you ever have thoseconversations when they're like,
hey, I, you know, I'm I'm adivorce attorney.
Hey, I'm an I'm an injury guy.
And you're like, I'm a rent-homeguy.
They're like, oh, wait a minute,wait a minute, we gotta we gotta
stop and hear Nick's story.

SPEAKER_02 (57:07):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Um, yeah, I usually just say,uh, I'm a shed lawyer, you know,
or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 (57:16):
Yeah, let's break it down in simple terms.
I am a lawyer for sheds, and ifyour shed never needs legal
representation, I will take careof you.
I and and you know, I I rememberwhen I first started and I did
it, and and now I think it's acompletely different story.
When I even when I first startedum and I talked to people about
being in the rent-hown industry,I got a lot of looks and they

(57:37):
just didn't know much about it.
They they kind of had this ideaor this moniker already stamped
in their head, like this is theway it is, and and and this is
what you guys do.
And it's like, no, couldn't befarther from the truth.
Let me explain this to you now.
I don't feel like I need toexplain as much more, but I do
have a podcast, and maybe thatis a you know, maybe that's part
of it.
But I try to explain it toeverybody, like this is a needed
industry, and we are everywhere.

(57:58):
And I love the fact that I Idon't love the fact that we're
separate, but I love the factthat we're coming together now,
and hopefully this is just thebeginning of what we can do
together.
So, you know, I I I love thatidea.
I love that you're leading upthe legal counsel, Nick.
It's it's great that you're apart of this.
Uh I love being able to connectwith you on this level.
Um just for sake of let's saythat anybody needs your help,

(58:23):
how would somebody find you?

SPEAKER_02 (58:24):
Well, I'm pretty easy to find.
Uh I can I can uh I can bewherever you need me to be.
No, I'm uh I'm in Jackson,Mississippi.
I'm at Wilkins Patterson LawFirm.
Um I'm the general counsel forNSRA, so you can you can find me
in in any of those ways.
Um and uh I'd be happy to sharewith you my my info.

(58:47):
You can put it on there as well.

SPEAKER_00 (58:48):
So uh the NSRA does not have the NSR website alone.
There is something else becauseI looked up NSRA and there was
like five that came up.
What is the website addressagain?
It is the NSR.
The NSRA.
There you go.
I think it's dot org.
We are the RTO show podcast, soI totally understand.
But we had we had to bedifferent than some other guy

(59:10):
out there in Russia who has thatthing.
I'm just telling you right now,buddy, mine is better than
yours.

SPEAKER_02 (59:14):
So the uh the the other NSR out there is the
National Street Rod Association.

SPEAKER_00 (59:20):
It is, it is, and there is actually one more, but
uh so you can reach the NSRA atthe nsra.com.
Um, I've got Apro at Rto HQ.org.
Uh, you know, you can it's it'sMartindale and Hubbard.
Um if you guys want to justcheck him out and see.
He is really accredited, he isreally one of those guys.
RTO World 2026 coming up.

(59:43):
Nick, I am so glad that you'regonna be a part of this.
I am really looking forward.
Maybe if I have an opportunity,that I will see you again in
September.
We'll see how that works out.
Um, because I'd love to be apart of that and talk to you a
little bit more.
And if you guys have anyquestions for Nick and you don't
know where he's at, you cancontact the show at the R you
know the RTO Showpodcast.com.
You can hit me up at Pete at theRTO Showpodcast.com as well.

(01:00:04):
You can hit me up on all thesocial medias.
We've got Facebook andInstagram, LinkedIn, YouTube
where you're gonna see this.
Nick, I am so glad that you'reon.
Nick Girard, legal counsel forone of the best things that are
coming our way right now, theNSRA.
Thank you so much for being onthe show.
I appreciate you taking out yourtime to be on with us today.
And I'm gonna tell you guys asalways, get your collections low
to get your sales high.

(01:00:24):
Have a great one.