What You’ll Learn:

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:07):
Hello and welcome to the RTO show.
I'm your host, Pete Shao, andtoday I've got my man Sean Nupp.
He's we listen, we're gonna andand am I saying that right?
Is it nup?
Am I saying that?
It's a hard K, baby.
That's Knupp.
Knupp, okay.
All right.
Hey, I'm getting educated here.
Listen, my man's gonna talkabout some great things that I I
really, really hold to heartwhen I do this.
And that's number one,multi-unit leadership and

(00:29):
management.
It goes both ways.
But a lot of the things thatwe're gonna talk about today,
you can take down to the GMlevel, right?
If you it anything leadership,anything multi-unit really can
be dialed down.
So for anybody who's not in thatposition, don't feel like you
need to be.
All you got to do is take a longlook at the lessons that Sean's
gonna teach us today.
And I promise you, you're gonnabe able to apply those.
Sean Knupp, I appreciate seeingyou today, man.

(00:52):
Listen, we were just talkingabout Arona, one of the first
Arona people to be on.
I appreciate that.
You guys have a lot going outthere in the RTO space for real,
for real.
We appreciate that.
Talk to me, my man.
How are you doing today?
And from what part of thecountry are you dialing in from?

SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
So, Pete, first, thank you for having me on here.
We've uh a lot of us in a Ronahave been kind of following the
podcast for a long time, andit's it's amazing watching what
you've been growing this thinginto.
So we feel honored that we'rebeing part of this also.
Um I'm calling in to you rightnow from southeast Missouri.
Uh my hometown is Cape Drado,Missouri.
And we are I'm staring out awindow right now as the roads

(01:29):
are all turning white, and overthe next uh 24 hours, I think
we're supposed to have somewherebetween nine and 14 inches of
snow.
So wow.

SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
Yeah, that's that's that's that's a little bit of a
of a that weather.
I know he says that it takes mybreath away, right?
Right, dude.
But so I I hate to tell you,it's like maybe 65 outside, and
we're gonna have thisconversation.
I didn't wear a jacket in today.
But listen, where you're from,where I'm from, where we're all
from, multi-unit management,leadership thought processes,

(02:01):
they're exactly the same.
And that's why we're bringinghim to you today because as I'm
going through and checking outmy doing a little background,
right?
I'm doing a little bit and man,Sean's name comes up all the
time and how well he's doingwith his guys, how he puts them
forward.
The first thing that I alwayssee is it's a team effort.
This is how we do as a team.
And now, let me tell you,there's always a coach, right?

(02:21):
There's always a coach on ateam, and you might have a
couple players that kind of areon the front line, but no one
does it without the full team.
If you have a question on that,you can always look up Michael
George's The Last Dance, andhe'd tell you, it doesn't matter
who he is, you you have to do itwith a team.
So, Sean, tell me, baby, what'sgoing on out there?
How do you make it work?
Because you've been doingreally, really well, especially

(02:42):
what some of us would call akind of hard 2025.
It hasn't been that easy.
Um, what I've seen is I've seenrevenues go a little bit up,
I've seen customer accounts go alittle bit down.
People are saying, well, youknow, it's the economy, it's
this, it's that.
Well, I mean, I can say all ofit.
Sometimes the uh the amount ofwhat people have to pay goes up.
So that you see the revenue yearover year go up a little bit,
but then you're seeing thecustomer count go down, which
means that the cost of theagreements are costing a little

(03:04):
bit more.
And how do you handle that?
Well, Sean and his team seem tobe doing it pretty darn well.
That's why I wanted you on theshow, man, because you are just
killing it right now.
But let's talk a little bit,let's let's let's back up a
little bit.
Sean, tell me, real quick, wewant to find out why every why I
think everybody should belistening to what you have to
say.
What have you accomplished inthe last uh 12 months, six

(03:24):
months that you know you haveshined on your team from a Rona?

SPEAKER_00 (03:29):
I mean, again, you alluded to that.
I I have to give my success tomy squad.
Um, the region, our region isregion nine for a Rona.
And these guys, I I couldn't askfor a better group of people to
to try to stand beside.
And I and I'm very I'm veryimportant in that in that
metaphor that I stand besidethem, not in front of them.

(03:49):
Um, I do take the leadershipside of how I wanted to be led
from regionals, and I reallywanted to want to need your
help, give me help, butotherwise, get out of my way.
Let me let me run.
Um, and so I do try to take thatapproach with the team of, you
know, if they've got a differentpath to success, as long as we
get the end result, I try togive a pretty healthy degree of

(04:10):
freedom.
Um, and I use a metaphor that Istole from one of my mentors is
you and I are both equals.
The only difference is if we endup in a tie, I get to break the
tie.

SPEAKER_01 (04:21):
Okay.
I like that.
I like that thought process.
So let's go back a little bitbecause where you are is not
just where you landed.
It's a combination of whatyou've been able to do, how
you've grown as a person, howyou've grown as a manager, how
you've grown as a leader and thethings that got you there.
Talk to me a little bit about,you know, you were working since
eight.
What what did that instill inyou that still shows up to you

(04:43):
and how you run your regionstoday?

SPEAKER_00 (04:44):
We, you know, grew up in a in a fairly poor family.
And you know, when you're a kid,you don't realize you're poor
until you start to see a lot ofyour other friends' houses and
you're like, Amen to that,right?

SPEAKER_01 (04:54):
Amen to that.

SPEAKER_00 (04:56):
Um, but it was, yeah, I mean, at an early age,
mowing yards at seven, eightyears old, paper routes at nine
and ten, and you know, a lot ofthose extra things that, you
know, if I wanted the stuff thatmy friends had, a lot of times I
had to buy it.
Um, and that's, you know, and myparents both worked their tails
off for us to just have basics,you know, and it's not until you
become a provider yourself thatyou start to realize sometimes

(05:18):
the importance and thesacrifices you make that you
hide from your kids.
So that that work ethic, Ithink, was instilled in me at a
pretty early age.
Um, and you know, the measure ofa man is what he does when
nobody's looking.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (05:32):
I I can't I love that statement because I
completely agree with that.
So growing out with growing upwithout the excess, you know,
how does that affect how youfeel about the customers and the
employees that are under somefinancial pressure as they come
into a Rona sometimes?
Because, you know, listen, we'rewe're there for everybody in the
community, okay?
But we like to help out thepeople who are in need, who need

(05:54):
something, and and understandingwhere they're coming from,
understanding that, hey man,nothing's nothing's given to
you.
You have to, you have to earnit.
You got to go out there and workand hustle.
But every once in a while, itdoesn't hurt to have a hand
handed out and say, you know,hey, let me help you along.
Let me show you what's going on,let me let me get you from point
A to point B as far as the yourneeds, as far as appliances or
furniture, or whatever the caseis for your for your children.

(06:18):
Does does getting to understandthem on a personal level, where
your life has been and whereit's gone, does that affect and
shape the way you do business asa regional?

SPEAKER_00 (06:28):
100% it does.
Uh it's you know, you you guyshave alluded many times over the
course of your podcast witheverybody, it's a relationship
business.
You know, we're we we set linesin the sand, or you know, Rona's
got our standards that we have,and you know, we'll probably
touch base on that a little bitthroughout the course of this,
but it's just it's arelationship business.
We're in this business for thepeople.

(06:49):
Um, I I love the you know thecomment that Larry Carico had
said once, you know, I'm notselling you a fridge, I'm
selling you the milk.
I'm selling you the place whereyou can put it.
I'm not selling you this bedroomset, I'm selling you a night's
sleep.
Um, and I think if you focus toohard on just a profit percentage
or focus too hard on hitting acertain metric, you lose sight

(07:11):
of the whole reason we're doingthis is because of our customer
base, the people.
And I think equally as importantfor our employees, they need a
place to come in and feel likethey're part of a bigger
picture.
They are part of a family.
And I I use that, I use the wordfamily nonstop with my group.
We are region nine fam.
So I think that thatrelationship side of our

(07:32):
business is if you don't havethat, none of the other things
are going to matter.

SPEAKER_01 (07:37):
So building pride, let's say you so you're a region
nine fam, building pride withthat.
Uh, it's always great to say,you know what, hey, there are
those days that we succeeded, wedid it, we got it.
Guys, we're on, you know, we'reon number one, we're on number
two, look where we made it to.
How do you share the days whereit's been a rough walk?
Maybe it might not have been uhwhat they consider on a KPI
success, but how do you sharethose lumps with the team when

(08:00):
it comes up?

SPEAKER_00 (08:01):
So um, and again, a lot of what I do, I said, I I
can't take too much credit forour success because I've stolen
good ideas from a lot of people.
And one of the best euphemisms Iheard was from one of the
mentors I had with Arona, andhis his simple response to bad
days was, all right, guys, todaythe bear got us.
Tomorrow we turn that bear intoa rug.

SPEAKER_01 (08:21):
No, bear, I'll never look at a bear rug and say we
can.
I love that.
I love that.
Um, you know, you have a lot ofhistory from going to from where
you've been.
And I'm not just talking aboutthe eight-year-old Sean, I'm
talking about things that you'vedone.
You've also been part of aunion, which I will say, a lot
of guys in the South, we don'thave that kind of background.

(08:42):
I'm not saying that it couldn'thave come from up north and come
down, but a lot of guys that arehere, born here, bred here, work
here, there is no unions downhere.
But you've been able to takesome of your union work and kind
of pull that over.
Talk to me a little bit.
You spent 13 years in a postalunion, ate as a president,
congratulations on that.
I don't know if anybody knowsthat, but you know, he's he was

(09:02):
up there.
What did that teach you aboutstrong personalities, about
getting everybody together?
Because I can only imagine inthe union days, especially as a
president, you've got a coupleof different people.
You know, you got Butch Cassidy,you've got, you know, the
Sundance kid coming around, andhe's and he's but you gotta you
gotta make them part of a team.
They have to understand thatthey're part of the team, that
everybody serves this goal.

(09:23):
And you know, you have yourindividual wins, but it's it's
to further the total cause.
How did those days in your uniondays as president kind of help
you to get to where you are now?

SPEAKER_00 (09:35):
Uh a lot of the leadership skills I learned
there, I think kind of delveinto the way I want to treat my
employees now.
I I'm you know, I'm a I'm amember of management, I'm on
this side of the fence rightnow, but I still have that
approach of these employees andthen i.e.
these customers, they are myresponsibility.
I am the one that you guys allowme to be the person that takes

(09:59):
care of you.
You about allow me to be thatshepherd.
So uh that a lot of it is Ithink just knowing I've I've my
mindset has always beendefending my uh my employees, my
you know, constituents, any ofthose people.
So I still carry that mindset alot.
And then when you kind ofdescribe the different um
personalities, uh, you know, inthe structure in the union, we

(10:22):
had, you know, if when you knowemployees feel grieved or
something and they're gonna filea grievance, I I had probably my
more empathetic uh personalitiesat that entry-level steward
position because the goal is,you know, we're not filing
grievances all the time andtying up the process.
The goal is if something waswrong, then how's the easiest,

(10:44):
shortest way to fix it?
So the empathetic people I'dhave on the front lines a lot to
kind of how do we get thisfixed?
We got a problem, let's fix itas quickly for both sides as we
can.
And then sometimes when we don'tagree, some of those, uh, some
of those bulldogs um I had atthe different tiers, uh, because
at that point we feel, you know,if this is if this truly was
aggrieved, okay, it's time todig your heels in, draw a line

(11:06):
in the sand, and then squareyour shoulders if you know
you're right.

SPEAKER_01 (11:09):
Let me ask you a question.
Because you said something.
You said these are these are mycustomers, these are my
situations.
How important do you feel it isfor a GM, for an RM, for
somebody in a position inoperations to feel that
particular way?
Not necessarily the way youfeel, because that that could
be, you know, your unique thing,but like in overall, how do you
feel that that changes, thatthat it's necessary is it

(11:31):
necessary for somebody to feellike that ownership and how well
does that serve them, in youropinion?

SPEAKER_00 (11:36):
It does.
It's that is a piece I thinkthat what most attracted me to a
well now when I came on a littleover five years ago, almost six,
um, was the the ownership levelsthat we give GMs.
The GMs are trained very earlyon.
It's their store.
They run this like the owner.
Um, they have full financialtransparency.

(11:58):
Uh, they're expected tounderstand the financial
transparency of everything downto every penny.
Um, and I, you know, we'll touchbase on these a little bit
later, but the approach hasalways been employees, customer,
store.
It has to be those three thingsand in that order.
Uh, the employees have to befirst.
If you don't have that familydynamic in the store, you're
gonna be hard pressed to everfind success.

(12:20):
So for a GM, I think a lot oftimes you have to put your
employees' schedules first,sometimes over your own.
You've got to do those things sothat these guys that, you know,
when they don't make as much asthe GM, you're not gonna find
too many employees that feelsorry for their GM when they're
making a little more money.
So take care of your staff, andthen from there you take care of
your customers.

(12:41):
If you're doing those twothings, typically the store
part, the last piece, kind oftakes care of itself.
Hi, I'm Pete Chao.

SPEAKER_01 (12:48):
You may know me from the RTO Show podcast, but today
I'm doing something a little bitdifferent.
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They've asked me to sit downwith some of the true legends of
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vision for the future.
And now I get to share thoseconversations with you right

(13:08):
from the legends themselves.
All of this leads to somethinggroundbreaking, though.
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(13:29):
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Through all this, would you sayhandling conflict, negotiation,

(13:52):
uh consistency, accountability,those were kind of bred in those
years before you came over.
Something that you were able tohold on to, hone your blade,
make sure that you understandthose 100% before you came over.
Those are fundamentals, guys.
Just so you don't, if you're notaware, those are the
fundamentals of what you need tounderstand in leadership.
And leadership can be at anylevel.
It can be from the accountmanagement level.

(14:14):
Being a leader doesn't mean youwere leading others, but leaders
can be led.
They can lead others by theiractions and what they do and the
examples they set.
And again, that's why I haveSean on here because I think
he's leading you guys prettywell.
So before you come on, you haveall this experience.
You spent eight years as apresident, then you're thinking
about RTO, and in your ownwords, there was some

(14:35):
skepticism.
There was like, uh, I don'tknow.
I don't know if this is what Iwant to do yet.
And I can't tell you the amountof trepidation I have gone
through with a lot of people.
I talked to a lot of people, andbefore they get into business,
including myself, I was like, II don't know.
I just don't know.
And then after I was it was alldone.
How did you get through thatfirst part?
I mean, you have a lot ofexperience, you're coming from a
different area, especially whenyou're talking about you know,

(14:56):
postal, and then getting intothis.
What were your concerns?
And then after that, how didthose concerns fade away?

SPEAKER_00 (15:03):
So there's a piece, and you alluded to, you know,
the the way you look at it orcoming in, and it's a piece that
I don't ever want to forget ashow we view our industry to our
non-customer base.
Um, I was fortunate that youknow I had a comfortable living
at that time and never neededthe rent-to-owned world.

(15:24):
And I'd see the flyers and theads of you know,$100 a month for
two years, and that was the onlything I understood of it.
And I just I had a prettynegative um existing condition
of what this RTO world lookedlike.
And so I actually almost kind oflooked down when I was gonna
take a position as an accountmanager back in the days, I

(15:46):
think back in 2009 or somethinglike that.
It feels like a hundred yearsago, but kind of that notion of
is man, is this what I'm at?
Is this what I'm about to go do?
And it almost felt like it was astep backwards.
And then after getting into therole and seeing the the help
that you do with people, youstart to these customers become
your extended family and yourealize the service and the

(16:08):
benefit that you provide, thealternatives that you know, that
that 24-month window, that'sjust the most extreme option.
There's a thousand optionsbetween there on getting them to
ownership.
And so I think it's important.
Um, you know, if you spendenough time with these
customers, you can't help butfall in love with them.
I've heard you say you walk intoa store three, four years later
and they still recognize you andremember you.

(16:29):
And that's yeah, um so I youbuild a relationship with the
ones that are there, but I thinkit's also the image and how we
handle the non-customers andeducating them to the benefits
that we provide are beyond, it'snot just that payment for a long
time.
It's you can still have the nicethings in your house.

(16:50):
You can still have you know bestbuy products if you're still on
a Walmart budget.
Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
I love that.
I'm not stealing that onebecause that was all him right
there, but that was good.
That was good, Sean.
I well, I might steal it.
I'm just saying, I might stealit.
So you're entering the worldwith a little skepticism, and
you figure out that right then,as you're coming through, there
is so much more to it, right?
That what we're offering and theability to, you know, there is

(17:17):
never gonna be that ability togive without the offset, right?
That there is always gonna bethe offset.
But the question isn't alwaysthe price, the question is the
value.
What are you getting for that?
Now, Sean's team has done anamazing job of doing that, which
we're gonna get into.
So, first, yeah, I mean, youcome up with an odd knowledge,
you you see a little skepticism,but you're starting off from the

(17:38):
basics, like you said.
You start off now, you're in asingle store.
How did you learn to masterthat?
And what were some of thechallenges that you came into
from the single store, you know,perspective?
Well, I'm coming into this, Ihaven't done this before, I'm
learning that you had toovercome versus where you were,
and you know, the application ofsuch to put you on a on the
right level, but you had tolearn that.
You gotta learn the single storething and figure it out.

(18:01):
Where were some of the speedbumps that you had along the way
that you said, you know what,I've I've got to figure this
out, or you did that helped youget to where you are now?

SPEAKER_00 (18:08):
So the first two years were probably not the most
successful.
I went from being an accountmanager to a general manager,
and I think everyone that's everfollowed that path can probably
relate.
You're locked in on where toyour your buckets, your nons,
your cards, whatever you callthat, your retention side of it,
though, where you clothes.
I'm not gonna have any chargeoffs.
You know, to me in those earlyyears, success was my 32 plus

(18:31):
was zero.
I we didn't have charge offs, wejust eight, nine months with no
charge-offs.
But it truly was probably aroundyear two or three, one of the
franchise consultants, um, andthat back in those days it was
Aaron's, came to me and he said,You're you're running your store
like an account manager.
And I took that as a complimentat first.
And that's when he said, It'srisk business.

(18:53):
He said, You're selling threeagreements a week that are no
risk, they're not gonna burnyou.
What if you sold 10 agreements aweek and one or two of them burn
you?
You're still net six ahead onthat week.
And that was it took a littleconversations because I might be
a little stubborn at times, um,but he made me see the
difference of starting to seethat extra revenue, what it

(19:16):
does.
And yes, you're gonna you'regonna get burned a few times,
but starting to take that riskover the next probably three
years, we took the store from aI think it was around 600
customers when I took it, andthen our peak was a little over
a thousand twenty customers, Ithink, our highest mark.
So that taking that risk andrealizing you know there's a

(19:37):
reason that they're shoppingwith us does not equate to
whether they're a good or a badperson.
And that that that changed mymindset a lot to start looking
at it from a a broader uhpanning back and seeing that
thing from a broader picturethan the narrow accounts.
I'm not gonna get burned focusthat I had in the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 (19:54):
Sean, I got a question for you.
I'm gonna put you on the spot.
What was his name?
What was the person's name thatgave you that?
Vision.
Russell Greer.
And you know you can say itright off the top of your head,
right?
So I will tell you, MichaelDrawn, if you're listening to
me, that was my guy.
Michael Drawn at the at the timewe were Renter's Choice.
We were about to convert over touh Rena Center because Renters
Choice, I bought Rena Center,and uh he came in and and I'm

(20:17):
gonna tell you, I did a no-nothat week I closed at a zero
percent.
I was man, I was hustling.
I was hard, I was hard, and I'mlike, I got no problem.
Yeah, I gotta visit it like thatMonday.
And he was like, hey, let's havea conversation.
He was like, No, that is not howyou treat your customers, and I
didn't understand that.
And exactly like you did, it wasa mindset that I had to

(20:39):
overcome.
And I'm glad that somebodystepped in and said that.
How many conversations now?
So so let's put it on its ear alittle bit.
Now that you're in the positionthat you're in, how many
conversations of that like haveyou had with your guys?

SPEAKER_00 (20:49):
Uh what time is it?

SPEAKER_01 (20:52):
Uh it's not a message that you pass along
quite a bit.

SPEAKER_00 (20:56):
Yeah.
And it's and again, it's, youknow, just trying to make sure
that we pan back, see thatbigger picture.
You've got some, I've got sometenured guys.
I've got a lot of seniority onmy team.
So I'm very, very blessed inhaving a handful of guys that
have been in this industry aslong as I have.
I've got one guy on my teamwho's been in this world longer
than I have.
So for those guys, they kind ofsee that bigger picture.

(21:17):
It's when I've got the newlypromoted, you know, they're
watching a PL, they're watchingcharge off dollars, they're
watching these things and notletting that tunnel vision
happen, but to keep that camerapan back and see the bigger
picture.
Let's, you know, there'll be abad week or two here.
You may have a bad month.
Let's look at all 12 and makesure that we're on the right
track.

SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
Okay, so I'm glad you said that.
And I want to take a pause offof my directional sheet right
here.
And I want, so how is it, how doyou get somebody to see, right?
Because there are differentpeople out there in the world.
And I'm not gonna lie to you,when I first came on, I was
exactly like you're saying, Iwas the PL guy.
Like if there was a if there wasa problem somewhere, I was gonna
burn that sucker until it wasright where right as rain.

(21:55):
But I never understood until II've gotten those visits where
it was like, listen, there is agray area somewhere in there
where you might have a day ortwo where it's not 100%.
But if did you save therelationship?
Did you give that customer thetype of feeling, the type of
relationship where they knowthey can come back or they
should stay, or you're gonnahelp them out in any way

(22:17):
possible before you burn thatbridge?
And I was I man, I walked aroundwith a lighter and a thing of
matches for quite a long timebefore I realized that.
How do you talk to your guys?
How do you get them tounderstand that there is that
that there's an area where youhave to learn the nuances
between the PL all the way downto talking to somebody at the
front counter?
How do you approach that?

SPEAKER_00 (22:36):
So there is a piece that Arona does that I I wish I
would have had the tools thatArona has given me over the last
five years in my previouslifetime in RTO because of just
how much it would have helpedme.
But one of the things that we dowith these guys is the general
managers set their own budgets.
We kind of create our budget atthe beginning of the year, and
we just, you know, we're comingout of this over these last

(22:58):
probably four weeks, but thebudget is just a it's the
rolling PL.
And so it's easy to go in andshow them, okay, well, you know,
you last year you lost this manyagreements in January, and this
is what it did.
So we can plug that thing in andjust show them, hey, if you if
you can just hold your own inJanuary and not take a
bloodbath, but you just find away to help these guys because

(23:22):
we know what they're doing,they're waiting on W-2s, they're
not answering that phone rightnow because they know there's a
check here in just a few weeks.
So uh is it if it's you know, ifit's a bad account that needs to
come back, bring it back.
If it's if they've if they'vegotten too far down, and
sometimes the right thing to dois to help them recognize don't
bring this bridge.
Let's take a pause right nowbecause we can get we'll keep

(23:43):
this door open for you in thefuture when you're ready again.
But a lot of them, it is you'vegot to help them through.
So when they see that rolling,you know, keep that thing at a
thousand agreements or elevenhundred agreements, uh, whatever
that number is, they see in realtime, well, okay, now you're set
to do 180,000 in profit thisyear, versus you do if you lose

(24:05):
10 agreements this month, thatdrops that down to about 160,000
because of that compoundingrevenue.
So we do, like I said, we teachthem to be owners.
Um, we want them to have thatunderstanding of it is it's a
customer-based business.
It is a little bit of risk attimes, and sometimes the right
thing to do is to be theshoulder for them and offer them
the financial.

(24:25):
You're helping them learn how todo their finances a lot of
times.

SPEAKER_01 (24:29):
Yeah, you know, I love man, when we get and start
talking operations, man, youstart getting me all excited
over here.
You know, I say uh there's nobad month unless it starts with
the J.
Those are the hardest monthshere in in Florida, but you
know, I can't tell you how manyyearly meetings we've had where
we're like, listen, January willset you up.
It's one of the hardest months,but you know, like you said, you

(24:49):
lose 10 now and you're comingoff your peak, right?
You're always coming off thepeak.
You just had, you know, you hadyour Black Friday, you had your
Santa Saturday, whatever cases,you had your your your December
25th, where everybody you'retrying to crowd it all in, get
everything done.
And of course, there's alwaysgoing to be some comeback, but
like you don't want to lose thatedge because if you can carry
that through the entire yearnext year, just staying level

(25:10):
through January can literallyturn your entire store around as
far as a PL standpoint.
And and those things are soimportant because not only do
you do that, but then your teamgets to see a success compounded
on success, right?
You have a good January, youdidn't fall behind.
It doesn't feel as terrible aswhen those payouts start coming
in because you know comeFebruary, March, there's gonna

(25:30):
be some payouts, but you're notfeeling it as much because you
didn't lose as much in January.
You get to hold on to thoserevenues, you know, 10 more
months of revenues.
You can't argue with that.
You know, you can't, you reallycan't.
So you learn how to be a GM,right?
You you're you're you're gettingit through.
Can you walk me through asuccessful week as a GM?

SPEAKER_00 (25:48):
Yeah.
Um the biggest piece for mystores is nobody died and you
didn't burn the building down.
You have all your fingers,you're good.
But and it especially with mynewer GMs, a lot of times in
that it's helping them tonavigate what truly is important
and everything is not the skyfalling.

(26:09):
Be patient, be calm, it's okay.
Um, and again, and I've usedthat silly little euphemism, but
uh when they call me and saying,Oh, this and this happened or
this or this, okay.
Well, did did anybody die?
Did we did we burn the buildingdown?
Okay, well then that other stuffwe can fix.
So you don't sometimes my calmhelps their calm.
Um, but for the the successfulGM, it's start a successful week

(26:33):
starts on Monday morning.
As soon as we come in, uh wehave boards that we do for the
GMs, the sales managers, theaccount managers, and obviously
everybody's got differentacronyms, but I'll use that term
because it's universal.
Uh but they have their goal ofwhat they have to set for that
week.
Accounts teams know exactlywhere they started, where
they've got to get to for thatto be a good, and we report that
every single day.

(26:54):
Um, the tech thread, I can'ttell you how many times this
thing's been going off.
Um, as my team is getting theirinformation that they have to
roll up to me in the mornings.
And the general manager, youneed to be the person who's just
the conductor in the middle ofthe ring of the circus.
Um, keep the accounts team doingwhat they need to do.
Sales teams have a certainpercentage of sales they've got
to hit every week, and we trackthat every day.

(27:17):
Um, you know, if you miss anumber, well, that number's got
to carry over to the next day.
We still have to hit 3% salesthis week.
So, uh, and again, I think a lotof times it's the mindset.
If you allow a mindset to say, Ithink this and this is gonna
happen, like we accept thatJanuary's negative.
I will challenge you to say, no,it's not.
January's gonna be positive.

(27:38):
And region nine right now is upon the month.
Um, our our budget we set withthe GMs was just to be
break-even at the end of themonth.
And if they can just hold water,this year is gonna be huge.
Um, and right now we're actuallyup right now.
So we've got we've got about aweek and a half to kind of hold
this thing down, but I have Ihave faith in this squad.

(28:00):
Um, they're soldiers.

SPEAKER_01 (28:02):
Hold the line, guys.
I'm telling you, hold thatJanuary line.
There is nothing like it becauseyou're you will see as your year
goes on, it is completely,completely different.
So good week.
We all come in, we kind of sitdown, we figure out where we
need to go, we set that roadmapof where we are as far as
collections, how much revenueswe want to get, how many sales
that we need to get, or orcustomers that we want to gain.

(28:23):
How do we even level that out?
If that's this week, you know,this is gonna be a hard week,
let's at least level it out sothat we can replace what we
lose, um, come out on top.
Now, here comes Saturday.
And I want to ask, because a lotof people have been asking me,
it used to be Saturday was theday, but I realized that it
turned to Friday, and thensometimes it was even another
day of the week that wasactually our high day, whether

(28:45):
we were sales or revenues.
Are you still seeing Saturday asthe high day, or is it of the
week, or is it a different dayof the week now?

SPEAKER_00 (28:52):
Um, Mondays are big because all the online leads and
everything that came in, youknow, from whatever time we
closed our doors on Saturday,you've got a ton of leads that
have come in over, you know, a36, almost 48-hour window.
Uh, so there's a lot of activityon Mondays to like, okay, these
guys were on our website, theypresented, they have a need that

(29:13):
we can fulfill, attack it, getthem figured out, find what it
is.
Uh, and then Tuesdays andWednesdays are hit or miss on
what they do.
Uh, but Thursdays, Fridays, andSaturdays, I think are pretty
strong days.
Still, that part still holdstrue.
But it's a, you know, a lot ofthe old world used to be you got

(29:34):
a truck every week or every twoweeks or something like that,
and all your product came atonce.
Um, and everything is it's anAmazon world.
Everybody wants everything now.
So we've we've changed ourpurchasing program from, you
know, the traditional vendorsand we're gonna get that stuff,
you know, 10 days, two weekslater, to opening up almost
anything where we can get itwithin 24 to 48 hours.

(29:57):
And so we incorporate a lot ofthat because if you want to be
competitive, you've got to shopwhere they want to shop, and
they want to shop from thecomfort of their couch on their
phone and not come into a store.
So it's it's uh you know, one ofthe one of the old uh management
books that were around for 100years who moved my cheese.
And that's you know, anyonethat's read that, I think we're

(30:19):
in one of those moments and havebeen for these last five or six
years, especially post-COVID,when people learned or were
forced to learn other ways to dothings without the immediate
social interaction.
And uh it's you either stick tothe old mindsets and get left
behind, or you decide somethinghas changed, I have to change
with it.

SPEAKER_01 (30:38):
Well, I you know, I so agree.
I remember the days whenSaturdays were huge because we
didn't have the credit cards, wedidn't have the online pay, we
didn't have the auto auto pays.
And now I think that's why, youknow, Friday kicked up so much.
You have all the auto pays thatare set up as soon as first
thing in the morning comes, theyhave the money.
We take it out.
That way there's no issues aslong as we can get our auto pays
up to where they need to be.
You know, a lot of people umdidn't have that back when I

(31:01):
when I started, I hate to saythat when I first started, it
wasn't like that.
Um, you know, and the advent ofof cards, I mean, we didn't have
to wait till they were home orthey weren't working that
weekend.
They can just call it in andmake it happen or do it online
or text a pay or whatever, whichcompletely changed the game.
But something that you said thatI I really love to talk about is
because the online has shot up.
Now, with the induction ofCOVID, which I hate to say the

(31:23):
C-word, but it is just outthere.
I mean, a lot of people decidedto shop differently.
And what do we do?
They move the cheese.
We have to follow that.
We have to follow where theyare, and and that's part of it.
Is they're sitting at home, kindof looking at our stuff, looking
through the lineup and saying,hey, I want this, this, and
this.
We've got to jump on thatimmediately.
So I agree.
Mondays was our second biggestday as well.
It was just like huge.

(31:44):
I mean, between customer sales,acknowledgement, getting all the
uh lineup as far as who missedus this weekend and how can we
get that corrected and and allthat?
It was the second biggest day wehad too.
So I was curious as how it wentwith that.
But now let's talk about how ithappened.
You're doing great jobs, you'redoing 600 to 1100 COR, which is
an amazing jump, by the way.

(32:05):
When did the multi-unit come toyou and and how did that take
place?

SPEAKER_00 (32:10):
So the I guess my my first dabble in multi-unit was
probably with the unionleadership because you know, I
worked in a building that had alittle over 300 employees in it,
one of the processingfacilities.
Everybody thinks of the mailman,you know, the guy that walks
around the daytime.
We all work night shifts.
Somebody had to move that, youknow, when he picks and delivers
that mail during the day,somebody's got to work it at

(32:32):
night.
But we had, you know, 48satellite offices because every
little town has a post office init.
So learning how to manage fromafar and do a lot of these other
things, I think that's where itstarted a little bit.
My time with my rent-to-ownedstore.
Um, we had we had some measuredsuccess over that 10-year
window.
And so we were fortunate thatyou know, a lot of the powers

(32:54):
that be started to trust us tostart going out and mentoring at
other stores, or we would be thetraining ground when somebody
would hire, or even it'ssometimes a different franchise
would hire people, they'd comeover to our store in Cape
Girarde and kind of train there.
So there was a lot of us uhfeeling honored, and so you
know, when somebody trusts youat that level, you put a lot of

(33:16):
time and energy into making sureyou don't break that trust at
that point.
So that was a lot of it.
Um but I will say when I when Ihired into a Rona, I was used to
the leadership role of managinga lot of groups of people as
they all look to you for theguidance.
And when I came in, I thought itwas gonna be a lot of the same.

(33:37):
And that first year was a prettysteep learning curve.
On I don't have everybody justwaiting for me to show them what
to do.
I've gotten miniature versionsof me in these stores, they know
the answers, they have theirvision of how they want to do
it.
It it was uh it was a learningcurve.
Um, they say you learn from yourmistakes, and I'll just say that
first year, I learned a lot.

SPEAKER_01 (33:59):
It was a lot of learning.
So let me ask you a question.
In in so you have all thisleadership ability that you've
already had kind of come in, andthen you go through, right?
And as it comes down, now you'rein this spot.
But what does it take whenyou're when you're in your
position, right?
Let's say you're where you arenow, and somebody says, Hey

(34:22):
Sean, I'm looking at your team.
I mean, you guys are doing verywell.
We usually pick from the topteams.
Who do you think is ready?
As you look at your team, and Idon't want you to calling any
names because I don't wantnobody saying anything.
You call me out on the show.
But like as you as you'relooking at the team that you
have, what are thequalifications that you would
say?
What makes you comfortableenough to say, this is going to

(34:43):
be Sean's pick, and this is whyI would pick this person?
Not necessarily because they'reold enough or they've seasoned,
but what is it you look at andsay, you know, whether there'd
be their leadership ability,whether it be um, you know, that
they've they've trained, they'rejust mentally ready.
Like what do you what do youlook at?

SPEAKER_00 (35:01):
So I kind of take that approach now with my group
that I took as a generalmanager.
And as a general manager, I feltan obligation.
I needed to be grooming myreplacement all the time.
Um, so I would, you know, havethe sales manager, the account
manager, if I'm grooming them tobecome a GM, they start sitting
in on doing interviews, thenthey start doing the interviews
while I just watch it and kindof you know tweak and edit here

(35:23):
and there um schedules,inventory management, ordering,
all those things.
I'm every every time I'm doingsomething, somebody can learn
from that.
So I always wanted to stop for amoment, pull them in and say,
hey, I you know, here's kind ofan extreme scenario.
Come over here, let's walkthrough this together.
So uh I've kind of got a fewpeople on my team that I'm

(35:46):
fortunate right now, and but Ihave what if I take a vacation,
I turn my codes over to somebodyelse and I have them, okay,
here's the plan, this is what Istill want done.
But you guys know how I do thesethings, and I let them run the
region for a week.
Or if I've got a differentthing, I have them kind of take
that roll on a little bit.
Uh, because one, it it justhelps.

(36:06):
If I've you know, if you've gota if you're a GM, if you can
have a store running whereyou've got two or three other
GMs in there, they're justwaiting on that spot, your store
is kicking.
And so that's kind of what Iwant with this group is I want
to I really want a team with theeight locations that I've got
right now.
I've my old goal, my ultimategoal is I have eight people that

(36:28):
are just regional managers,they're just waiting on the
spot, and so a lot of that isjust kind of helping them.
But the things I look for is umkind of look to paying that
camera back, look at the bigpicture.
You've got to not look at yourstore because you are out here
in rural county USA.
This store is in inner city USA,and you have very, very

(36:51):
differing dynamics there, uh,but also in allowing the
freedom.
Don't don't be cut because weyou you kind of get to success
levels by being a little bit ofa control freak.
Um, you don't let any anythingfall on stage while you're
there, but taking that time tolisten to the other guys hear
what they had to say, allowingthem to try it sometimes.

(37:13):
And sometimes, sometimes youknow, you know what, I think
we're gonna fall on our face inthis one.
But if I'm gonna, if I'm gonnabuild trust and do these things,
sometimes I gotta let them atleast make that mistake and then
okay, you know what, let's trythis way now.

SPEAKER_01 (37:26):
Like, you know, there's so many times that I
unfortunately see that some GMsuh they don't do that, they they
they hold on to what they have,right?
And they control the show, butthey they forget to pass on the
knowledge that they have uh inthe situations they have.
And I and I know sometimes thatthere's always a situation where
like we're doing this, it'shard, I need to really be a hold
of this.
But to have somebody alongsideof you and say, this is how you

(37:48):
control the mass, this is howyou control the craziness that's
going on right now.
You focus on these three things,or you make this your northern
star, and everything else has toline up to that situation.
This is how you rally thetroops, this is how you get
control of the situation.
And uh I, you know, and I'm notsaying it's not getting done,
I'm just saying that I oncertain points, I think that we
forget to do that when when thetime comes to pull somebody

(38:09):
along and say, hey, it's it'sthe craziest it's gonna be right
now.
This is when you get your feetwet.
This is a great time to kind oflet's let's do this together and
figure it all out.

SPEAKER_00 (38:18):
Um there's there's eight core standards that Arona
holds.
It's I mean, they're on postersin every store, everything, and
we have there are eight metricsthat we require everybody lives
by, but one of them is hiringand development.
And so we've put a lot of timeinto you know the interview
process and what you look forand doing behavioral-based
interviews, finding the rightpeople to come in, but then it

(38:42):
doesn't stop there.
It's the development side.
And I think a good GM, as you'retraining your second up how to
be a GM, you also need to betraining them how to be a
developer.
If they have a you know adelivery driver under them or
they have a second accountsassociate under them and there's
a tier, then I think theapproach should be you don't

(39:03):
manage that accounts associate,your account manager manages
them.
So you help them start to setplans for the day and develop
those people.
But it's the developing side, II I'm with you there in
lockstep.
Um, you've you've got to putthat time and energy into them
because it they feel the pridefor you investing in them, but

(39:23):
ultimately it just it helps you.

unknown (39:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (39:26):
Well, you know, and it makes the choice easier.
If somebody's ready to go versussomebody that you're trying to
get ready to go and say, youknow what, that's the person I'd
select next, and here's why.
Because they can do my job.
Not necessarily the as well as Ican because I don't have the
experience, but if they walk in,they're not gonna be kind of
sink or swim.
They're gonna they're gonna beable to control what's going on.
And uh with a little bit ofhelp, they can make it you know

(39:47):
be very successful.
And that's usually where youwant it to be.
You know what I mean?
You want somebody to be able tostep in and just handle some
business.
I will say there's a couple oftimes that you know you when you
mention that I love the idea,when you mention a rona, you you
like you get excited about that.
Is it about our own that that isdifferent from where you've been
that you say, you know what, Iam glad to be here with this
company?

SPEAKER_00 (40:06):
This company, more than any place I think I've ever
worked for, the amount of caringthat they have for employees,
and I am just an employee.
Um, Tom Bernal is our owner.
I've got uh divisional vicepresident that's over me, and
I've got my COO, Jason Coombs,who is the gentleman that
actually convinced me to getback into RTO because I had

(40:27):
stepped away from RTO for awhile and actually gotten into
the banking and finance world.
And when somebody tried torecruit me back, I kind of
laughed.
I'm like, no, dude, I literallyhave banker hours.
I'm not, I'm good.
Um and meeting with Jason, um, Isat at a table and within 20
minutes, his passion and whatexuded off of him.

(40:48):
I was just slide of a biscuit.
I'm I'm getting back into RTO.
Um, and so the number of timesI've seen this company, the
company drives hard.
We we are very um upfront abouthow hard we drive.
Um, we are going to be numberone.
When that happens, don't know,but we have done nothing but

(41:09):
grow and continue to grow, andwe're building what we think is
a very expandable platform.
And we've you know done quite afew purchases over the last
three years, and we're we'regetting bigger.
Um, but the the owner has madeit very clear it is about the
employees, it is about thestaff, and um, you know, and
I've had conversations withother people, and you know,
there's always a little bit ofrecruiting, and I headhunt

(41:31):
people, and sometimes we peopleheadhunt us.
Um, and I I'm I'm pretty loyalto this company.
It's just I think the way theyhandle the approach with
employees and customers mirrorsthe things that are in my heart.
Um, and so I couldn't work for acompany where I felt like I had
to put a face on every time todo things.
And with this company, um, Ithink they see it the same way.

(41:54):
And I think everybody takes careof their customers.
That's not to ever knock adifferent brand of any kind.
Everybody has a place, they havecustomers that are loyal to
them.
Uh, but um, yeah, there's athere's a pretty strong sense of
pride, and I I wear that arounda logo.

SPEAKER_01 (42:07):
Hey everyone, it's Pete Chow here from the RTO Show
Podcast, and I want to tell youabout a company that's making a
real difference in therent-to-owned space.
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I've seen firsthand how theyapproach marketing.
Let me tell you, it's not justabout ads.
WoW brands build completedigital ecosystems designed
specifically for therent-to-owned industry.
Their e-commerce and leadgeneration strategies are built

(42:29):
to bring qualified leaders.
And did I mention that they areactively working with the
rent-town industry while alsobeing members of April and Trib?
These folks are passionateproblem solvers.
They don't just slap somethingtogether, they design, build,
and scale the kind of digitalretail tools your business
needs.
Your customers actually want.
So if you're serious aboutgrowing, reach out to WoWBrands

(42:52):
at WoWBrands.com.
I trust them, and I think youwill too.
Is passion the unsung hero?
It's like like is it a is it theunsaid superpower?
Because I know that people likethey're facing an uphill battle,
and it's like, you know what?
That passion, that that thatidea that there's nothing that
you're gonna do that's gonnatake away the way I feel about
this situation, and it's goingto happen one way or another.

(43:12):
I can see that when you talk,it's it's it's it's great, man.
I love that.
I love that energy.
Have a good day.
That's it, man.
Let's do it.
So, you know, as you go fromsingle unit to multi-unit, I
mean, walk me through a typicalweek now.
It's not the same as when youwere, you know, running a store.
It's got to look a little bitdifferent.
For some of the listeners thatare out there, what what does a

(43:35):
week seem like to an to somebodywho's doing very well in the
position?
What do you do to get yourselfthere and your team there?

SPEAKER_00 (43:42):
So a lot of it is still, you know, the the end
goal is the same.
We need to be a certain percentof growth by the end of a week.
We, you know, there's differentweeks.
You've got charge offs oncertain periods of time, you've
got different promotions thatsales are going to be stronger,
you know, first, third,fifteenth, none of that's
changed.
You know, payouts are gonna beheavier on certain days.
So, and a lot of it is kind ofunderstanding the store.

(44:05):
Um, two stores can be down, butthat down's very different.
One store is down becausethey're returning everybody, the
charge-offs are through theroof.
They're they have a verydifferent problem that's going
on than a store that's downbecause we just haven't had
strong sales volume.
We haven't had this.
I've got an accounts guy runninga store, nothing slips through
the cracks, but we're notgrowing.

(44:25):
Um, and so I think some of thatis understanding each store and
not not trying to manage themfrom this blanket policy.
Everybody do this and it willwork.
So for me, it is kind of dialingin.
I've got a ton of spreadsheetsthat I start with in the morning
that they they paint a picturefor me.
I kind of plug in our numbers, Isee who's where, um, and then I

(44:46):
try to help them in bite-sizedchunks.
Okay, if you're if you're 4% offof this metric, you're not gonna
fix 4% in one day.
But if you got four days left,then obviously 1% a day isn't
gonna do it.
It needs to be 1.5.
So for you, today, this needs tobe what you guys are.
So let's set a goal today of youdo this, and while you don't get
the win yet, you move thatneedle closer.

(45:08):
And to then tomorrow we got todo the same thing.
Um, and then just I start mymorning text off at 8 a.m.
to my group.
Um, it is the same text thread,which I won't say, but it is I
start with the same messageevery morning.
And I had this approach as ageneral manager for a long time.
Um the store will mirror themanager.

(45:30):
People have said that for ahundred years in in any kind of
leadership roles.
So, as a manager, if you'renegative, if you had a bad day,
if you let that one customerthat kind of got under your skin
carry over to the next customer,it it's just it starts to breed
that toxicity.
And so I think the biggest thingfor in for me as my with my

(45:50):
group, but also for generalmanagers and their store, you
got to be the same person everyday.
If you're human, you'll have abad day, you'll say something
off the cuff that you let fly,you handle um a correction with
an employee a little moresternly than when you look back
at it, you're like, I probablycarried three things or the
issue that happened at home oranything else into that
conversation.

(46:10):
And so I think just be the bossthat you want to have.
That's just that's a powerfulstatement.

SPEAKER_01 (46:17):
So let's let's shift it a little bit.
I'm gonna go to the A-word, it'sa hard word.
Accountability.
As you're doing all this, youwant to stay, you you you want
to be loyal to the situation,you want to be loyal to your
people, but there's always gotto be that accountability,
right?
You can't just everybody justcan't be going sideways and
going crazy, and it just doesn'twork that way.

(46:38):
To be successful, you have tohave it.
How do you use it?
How do you implement it?
How do you realize when you whenyou're you know facing a
situation, this is theaccountability that I want to
have from it?
Um, the beforehand, theafterhand, whatever your thought
process is, because to besuccessful, they have to know
that they've got to stay withinbounds.
And that's just the way it is.

(46:59):
And you don't really want totake that, you know, that drive
from them, but you have toimplement it in a way where they
understand there are rules tothis game, regardless of the
situation.
Sean, how do you do that?

SPEAKER_00 (47:09):
So for me, I've always, and it this probably
goes back to kind of some of theunion leadership and defending
employees.
Um, one thing that we were veryparamount then, and I've used
this entire through my entireleadership career is when you
have those accountabilitydiscussions, is it a coaching
and a corrective action or is itdiscipline?
If you just slap someone's handand say, hey, you didn't do

(47:32):
this, and I'm gonna put you onpaper, that's defeatism.
That is, you're never gonna gettheir buy-in from it.
So it takes time to say, okay,look, we missed that mark.
So here's what I want to do.
I want you to give me yourgoals.
If you close that 4% over, canyou close within 2% of being
over this week?
So tell me how you do that.
What's your plan?
And I try to allow that if we,you know, on accounts time.

(47:54):
Sometimes you've got to havesome evenings that you run a
little past supper time to getthings done.
And so I try to tell the guys,all right, we know we're off
track.
That takes a few weeks to getdone.
So next week you pick the threenights that you need to be
running because people havefamilies.
I don't, I've never been a fanof it's a Tuesday.
I just saw a report, and thenI'm gonna everybody's gotta run
because I don't know your kidhas a parent-teacher conference

(48:17):
tonight, your spouse is still athome recovering, and you're just
trying to get to an eight-hourday and get back home.
There's so many dynamics to usjust being humans.
So I try to allow them, youknow, uh you guys know we're off
track.
So set the plan, tell me whatthe plan is.
I may tweak it and edit it alittle bit, uh, but it's the

(48:37):
buy-in comes from them creatingtheir plan.
And then when the successhappens, um, that's that's that
one-minute manager.
Oh, I love that book.

SPEAKER_01 (48:45):
There's so many one-minute managers out there.
You guys need to read that ifyou haven't.
You know, one thing that I usedto love to do is get in the
mindset, right?
So we sit down and talk, and uhyou you know, you obviously want
to bring up what happened first.
Okay, this was the goal, thiswas the set, this is what we
were going to do, this is whatended up happening.
But I always wanted to sit downand go, you I I I would like to
believe that 99.9 of the percentof the people that I sat down

(49:09):
with had a good intention.
It might not have worked outthat way.
What was your mindset?
Where were you at of the thoughtprocess of when this came up?
What was your goal?
What did you intend to do?
Did you intend to just like didyou get upset and just reach out
to that customer and say, hey,you missed that commitment?
Like you know, right?
Come on, but Jones, you can't dothat.
Um, was the idea to get thatpayment immediately when you

(49:31):
called?
Is that is that how it happened?
And then you realize that youwere in a mindset that you
weren't gonna get that payment?
Because you know what?
If somebody called you in thatmindset, that probably wouldn't
get you to do anything either,right?
Well, where were you at?
Where were you thinking?
And obviously, they're gonna seeit in in in a hundred different
ways.
And the thought process wasalways, okay, let's let's tweak

(49:53):
that and figure out where thatthat might that might need to
change just a little bit.
Where was your mindset?
Were you thinking on on point?
Were you trying to go home?
And it's okay to it's okay tosay that, right?
You've got to create that safespace, and it's okay to say
that.
I might tell you why it's wrong,but it's okay to you know say,
hey, listen, I was I was in thismindset, I was doing this, I had
one, you know, one account leftto get my numbers.
I knew it was getting late, Ikind of hammered on the phone or

(50:15):
whatever the case is and kind ofbring them back.
But I love your your yourforesight on that and just kind
of get their buy-in on how tosolve that problem because the
truth is it not everybody'sgonna want to make that you know
puzzle the same way, as long asyou make the puzzle.
It doesn't matter whether youstart the corners or the side
first, or you want to pick theshiny rows in the middle and
grow on from there, whateverworks, you know, get their

(50:36):
buy-in on that.
And I and I love that idea.
I like that puzzle analogy.

SPEAKER_00 (50:40):
Uh, I'm gonna steal that.
As I said, I steal fromeverybody to build.
Um, and I use the one similarwith you know, if the end result
is to be at a six, my path mightbe three plus three, your path
might be two plus six, a twoplus four.
Um, so if you have a differentpath to get there, but you get
there, I'm okay with it.

(51:01):
Um, and then kind of finding outif you don't get there, normally
it's a front-end process, not anend process.
Make sure that you're not justbeing reactionary like what you
just said.
What was that phone call like?
What was your tongue like?
How how stern were you withsomeone?
Are you are you bringing a tonof bricks on them when they're
six days late?

SPEAKER_01 (51:20):
Yeah, did you just get off your 15 plus calls and
you just called that one personlike they hold on a little bit,
you know?
Ms.
Jones still loves you, okay?
She's gonna be in here onFriday.
Um, you know, talking about allthat stuff, uh, and I want to
cut to some of this.
I mean, how has your definitionof leadership changed over these
last few years?

SPEAKER_00 (51:38):
I think just going from RTO multi-unit is just a
different beast from anythingelse I had that was even if I
say it's in proximity, it's not.
Um, and so I think being aservant leader has probably been
the biggest change I can see inmyself.
Um I still I had uh a persontell me once when I was when I

(52:02):
was the president of the union,and I had a couple different,
you know, uh board members withme, and I had one that was just
an irritant all the time.
And I had this older lady say tome once, are you want to get rid
of her because she disagreeswith you?
Um because maybe you needsomeone around you that will
tell you the things a lot ofpeople don't.

(52:23):
And that that kind of resonatedwith me, and I've I've really
that that was one of those kindof paradigm moments when my
leadership shifted, and itbecame a I kept, and I'll her
name was Ruth, and I won't gopast that, but I kept Ruth on
close to me because of howdifferently we did see things,

(52:44):
and she would be the eyessometimes that would see the
things that I didn't, because Ihave a vision of what this looks
like, and we're going in thatpath, and the same thing on
social media and everything.
We kind of push out the thingsthat we don't always align with,
and your so your TikTok feealigns with the crap that you
just want to watch.
Um, so early on, that was melearning, I was building my own

(53:06):
algorithm for lack of a betterword.
Um so I think that's probablybeen one of the biggest changes
that I've seen is just alwayslistening to the people that
want to do it differently than Ido, um, and then trying to find
where the merit's at in doingit.
And if if we can't get tosuccess, okay, well then you
know what?
Let's I get to break the tie andlet's try this way now.

SPEAKER_01 (53:29):
Yeah, well, you know what?
I I admire that.
I that I've got a couple guys inmy life that that do that, a
couple of mentors of mine.
And uh I hit a plateau and Icouldn't tell what it was, and
it was that it was that I was Iwas surrounded by people who
kind of thought the same way Idid, felt the same way I did,
and we just created this echochamber.
We and and and I I wantedgrowth.
And so I'm reading books thatsay something different, and one

(53:51):
of them was that if everybodysays the same thing, you're
probably in the wrong room.
And so I started talking to oneof my mentors, and like within
five minutes, he told me what hereally thought.
He was like, That is the dumbestidea.
Why?
But you know, he always backedit up with, What about this?
Or what about this situation?
Or what did you forget aboutthat?
Or what is your real overallgoal, purpose, idea?

(54:14):
And I was like, one of my Let mego back, let me go back.
I wasn't prepared for this, youknow?
And it really helped me.
It helped me to have peoplearound me who said, Pete, that
that's you know, you I see whereyou're coming from.
I know your thought processes,but you need to hear something
maybe you don't want to hear, oror there's thinking out there
that that doesn't align withyours, and it might actually
work better.
And you know what?
I cannot tell you how much Iappreciated that.

(54:37):
Ruth, I don't know anything elseabout you, but I love you.
I want to tell you we appreciatethat because it it really grows
the person who can take thatfeedback and go, you know what,
I I don't need you to like myidea.
I need you to tell me what'swrong with it.
I need you to find the cracksfor me because that's how you
build, grow, and get better.
I need to know where I'm goingwrong.
And I don't want to be the guywho's like, hey, I'm a regional,
you can't tell me I did anythingwrong.

(54:58):
No, tell me.
I mean, within reason, but tellme, you know what I mean?
If it's not right, tell me thatit's not right.
And then I want to bring you inbecause you're the one who stood
up and said it.
Help me figure this out.
Where do you what are you sayingthat I don't see?
Because I I have this goal, thisis where I want to get to be.
You obviously see where it,where there's some trepidation,
there, where there's some wrongsin there.

(55:18):
Help me get there.
You know, I love those people.
I Ruth, I love you.
I'm just saying that right now.
I appreciate it.
Um, what advice would you givesomeone stepping into multi-unit
leadership now that you've youand I don't want to I don't want
to put you on this plateau show,but you're doing good.
You guys are doing good.
My squad's doing good.
Your squad.
Um, you know, what would you sayto somebody who wants to get
into that?

SPEAKER_00 (55:38):
The same as a general manager taking over a
regional.
Um, I think the respect comesfrom you don't just talk it, you
walk it.
Get in there and jump on a truckand deliver until eight o'clock
at night because a driver wasout.
Get in there and run fieldvisits and do things with
people.
I mean, I still, you know, Iwant to try to find that
balance, but um I don't everwant to ask someone to do

(56:00):
something they haven't seen mealready do.
And it's to me, the higher upyou go does not mean your
workload gets easier if you'redoing it right, the workload.
And it it is a it is a six toseven day a week job um a lot of
times, but that's I don't fussabout that because I get to do
this.
I am Bernal Capital and Aronapermit me to do these things, to

(56:24):
help these guys, to do this.
Um, you know, we get the rewardsof it and we see some success,
and that feels good, but I don'tever want to forget that there's
there are 5,000 people that'lltrade spots with me right now in
a blink of an eye, not knowinganything.
And so taking that mindset of Iget to do this, um, is that

(56:45):
that's the biggest piece is justget in there.
I my day has to start before myteam.
I get up every day between 5:30and 6.
I want to have reports, I wantto have numbers.
If we've got a plan for thatday, I need my team to just kind
of it helps them to have a lotof those nuances out of the way
because we have a thousandthings we got to do, but at its

(57:06):
core element, we rent and wecollect.

SPEAKER_01 (57:09):
Oh God, I love it.
Now we get into the basics,baby.
What do we do?
We rent and collect.
Listen, I love, dude, we couldsit here all day, but as we come
to the end, man, as we comearound the, you know, we come
around that corner because I'vegot to talk operations all day.
I love operations.
Sean, you're you're killing it,man.
I love it.
I want to I want to ask you somequick questions.
I don't want you to think aboutthem too much.
I just want you to answer them.

(57:30):
We're gonna quick fire somequestions, and I want to pick
your brain just a little bit.
How's that sound?
D, all the above.
All right.
I made that Christmas tree.
What do you mean it wasn'tright?
And Anthony's over here, like,yeah, I made a Christmas tree or
two before it.
All right.
What leadership habit you refuseto compromise on?
We already got him thinking.
He's already already thinking.

SPEAKER_00 (57:51):
Ethics.
Um, the one thing I can't do isjust don't take shortcuts that
compromise you being able tosquare your shoulders and answer
for what you did.
So there's always on the grayareas.
Um, I use the old racing, youknow, if you didn't trade a
little bit of paint, you weren'treally racing.
So I get the gray areas onsomebody fighting a little bit,
but just on the ethic line.
Never just draw that line.

(58:13):
Be able every action you do, beable to square your shoulders
and answer for it.

SPEAKER_01 (58:16):
Uh, you know, I I I always say if if anything you do
in the dark can be done tolight, then you're okay.
Don't don't have a differentview of one side or the other.
Uh all right, one mistakemulti-unit leaders repeat.
That one I'm struggling on.

SPEAKER_00 (58:31):
Um I think, and again, it's we we we do where
you got to the higher levels bybeing a control freak, and I
know I am a control freak, andit is the uh my Achilles heel
that I is always being tried toI keep it at bay.
So allowing the influence ofother people's opinions to still
carry the same weight as yourown.

(58:53):
Uh, just not not getting sotunnel visioned on this is how
we get here, this is the path,everybody do it exactly like
this.
Um, and allowing allowing thefreedom and fluidity between
your group.

SPEAKER_01 (59:06):
Sounds good.
I'm hoping I I'm gonna try tostump them with another one,
Anthony.
Let's see if we can do this.
Yeah, I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_00 (59:11):
Best advice you've ever received.
The I'm gonna put it betweenkind of I have to split it.
One, Russell Greer early on inthat career, um, and telling me
it's a risk business, take somerisks, take educated risks, but
take the risks.
Um and in the union work, um,the the gentleman, if we had you

(59:35):
know, grievances or things thatwent up to a state or a national
level, um this guy was just hedelivered a master class in
managing people.
And one thing he said was makesure you treat everything so
that the other, if even ifyou're getting everything you
asked for, you've got to do itin a way that the other guy felt

(59:56):
like he won or he got you.
Because the person that feltlike they won, they'll come.
Back and negotiate with youevery time because they think
they've got you.
And so it it kind of carriesover into if a manager's pushing
back and they want to dosomething different.
I'm using my verbiage to kind ofguide, I know where I want to
land, but there's a lot of timesI need them to feel like they

(01:00:17):
got there on their own.
Um, that uh that buy-in there.
So that that may be getting alittle more deep and inflective,
but um I think just lettingletting the managers have to own
it.
And sometimes you've got to stepback and let them do that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:32):
Well, you know, there's a book, uh, How to Win
Friends and Influence People hasbig coverage on that.
If you're gonna read a book, Isuggest from this podcast today.
I'm gonna say read that book.
And last but not least, why RTOleadership, solid leadership
means so much right now.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:47):
You've got a lot of people, the the new people
hiring in have to understandwhat this new model looks like.
And that is that Amazon world,the instant gratification, the
things, because if we've got alot of old dogs that are stuck
on, well, you've got to comeinto the store and do the order
form and look at the product, orI've got to meet you face to
face.
I don't want to do ane-signature online.

(01:01:09):
There are things that areevolving, and so I think the
true leadership, um, we neednew.
And this is a piece I know I'veheard you say a lot.
RTO needs new.
We're looking at the AI stuff,um, you know, incorporating that
into not just our marketing andcampaigning, but also our
collecting activity and sales.
So it's, I think the leadershiphas to embrace the changes

(01:01:32):
because that's going to trickledown.
You've got to treat the, you'vegot to train these new guys
coming in the right way to dothese changes, and you've got to
get the old dogs coming aroundto that line of thought of, hey,
the cheese moved.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:45):
I'm gonna tell you guys right now, too, there's a
big section in the book, Need toLead, by Dave Burke.
He comes across that with oldleadership and new people.
I love the idea.
Sean, you have killed it today.
I I'm telling you, man, I lovedhaving you on.
Uh I tell you, I could dooperations all day.
But seriously, take some of whathe said, apply it to what's
going on.
Again, you can do this at anylevel.
It could be the GM level, itcould be account manager, it

(01:02:06):
could be sales.
Just be vigilant.
Rose, or excuse me, it's it'sit's uh Russell and Ruth.
Russell and Ruth, we appreciateyou guys.
Thank you so much for helpingSean get to where he is and he's
taking some stuff out of you.
You guys are being greatmentors.
Uh, Rona has uh done a great jobwith you, man, having you on and
and having you a part of theirteam.
It was a great call on theirpart.

(01:02:27):
Jason, hey, you knew what youwere doing, man.
That passion came through.
I appreciate it so much.
Listen, if you guys have anyquestions, hit us up at the
show, Pete at the RTO ShowPodcast.com.
Ask me any questions you like.
Go on any social media, look upthe RTO show, and you're gonna
see us there.
You're probably gonna see Sean'sface too, because I'm gonna put
him out there all over theplace.
He's got some good answers therethat I think we need to share.
I'm also gonna tell you rightnow, am I gonna see at LedgeCon

(01:02:48):
this year?
Are you gonna go LeggeCon?
Are you doing LeggeCon thisyear?
Oh, no.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:52):
No, okay.
Um next year I plan on being atit.
I've got with M R D A and IRDA.
We've got we've got too manyother things moving right now,
but I plan on getting involved.
I want to get I want to get intothe fellowship.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:02):
Well, I'm gonna miss Sean this year, but I'm gonna
see you guys at LedgeCon.
If you have anything that youwant to do there, please hit me
up at the show.
If you go to www.thertoshowpodcast.com, scroll all the
way to the bottom, fill out yourname, your number, your email,
and a reason why you want to go,you might actually join me at
LedgeCon this year.
I would love to see you there,but this is only until February

(01:03:22):
28th.
So you got a little bit of time.
Make sure you put in the reasonyou want to go, and maybe we
will take you there and we willdo.
We'll miss Sean this year, butwe're gonna make it happen.
Uh, listen, Sean, I reallyappreciate you being a part of
the show and sharing ourknowledge, your knowledge, and
some of the stuff you've beenable to go through because I
really love to feed some of theguys who are watching this, some
of the gals, and really them tounderstand it's leadership, it's
multi-leadership, it's singleleadership, it's growth, it's

(01:03:45):
understanding, it's educationcoming from one of the guys
who's doing it very well.
So, Sean, I do appreciate it.
And I'm gonna tell you guys asalways get your collections low
to get your sales high.
Have a great one.

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Leading Multi-Unit Teams Through Change with Sean Knupp

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Leading Multi-Unit Teams Through Change with Sean Knupp

What You’ll Learn:

Episode Highlights:

Meet the Guest:

Tools, Frameworks, or Strategies Mentioned:

Closing Insight:

Episode Transcript

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Leading Multi-Unit Teams Through Change with Sean Knupp

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