Michael Bennett on Leadership, Rent to Own Growth, and the Future of the RTO Industry

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What does it take to build a decades long leadership career in the rent to own industry while navigating economic downturns, company transitions, and industry evolution?

In this special Legends episode of The RTO Show, Pete Shau sits down with Michael Bennett, CEO of Buddy’s Home Furnishings and former three time APRO president, to explore the people first leadership philosophy that shaped his career and helped influence the future of rent to own. 

Michael shares stories from Rent A Center, RentWay, Aaron’s, and Buddy’s Home Furnishings while discussing servant leadership, rent to own operations, collections strategies, franchise growth, virtual rent to own, customer service, and the long term future of the RTO industry. Listeners will learn how leadership, adaptability, and relationship building continue to shape one of the most resilient sectors in retail finance and consumer access. 

What You’ll Learn

• How Michael Bennett built a leadership career across multiple major rent to own companies including Rent A Center, RentWay, Aaron’s, and Buddy’s Home Furnishings
• Why servant leadership and people first culture remain critical for long term success in rent to own operations
• How collections, customer relationships, and accountability helped shape Michael’s management philosophy
• What the future of virtual rent to own, e commerce, and digital customer acquisition could mean for the RTO industry
• Why setbacks, economic downturns, and career pivots often become the foundation for stronger leadership

Episode Highlights:

• 02:18 – Michael Bennett reflects on serving three terms as APRO president and helping guide the rent to own industry through major transitions
• 06:38 – How hustling as a kid and building early businesses shaped Michael’s entrepreneurial mindset
• 11:15 – Why Michael joined Rent A Center in 1993 and started his career working on a delivery truck
• 15:20 – The leadership and operational systems Michael learned during the rapid growth years at Rent A Center
• 21:05 – What happened during Michael’s transition to RentWay and the lessons learned from rebuilding struggling regions
• 28:30 – How Aaron’s franchise operations grew average store revenue from $40,000 to more than $111,000 per store
• 34:05 – A leadership lesson about empowering frontline employees and why “titles don’t matter, people do”
• 51:00 – Michael’s prediction for the future of rent to own, virtual RTO, customer service, and industry consolidation
• 56:14 – The leadership books and frameworks Michael recommends for developing future RTO leaders

Meet the Guest:

Michael Bennett is the CEO of Buddy’s Home Furnishings and a former three time president of APRO, the Association of Progressive Rental Organizations. With more than 30 years of experience in the rent to own industry, Michael has held leadership roles at Rent A Center, RentWay, Aaron’s, and Buddy’s while helping shape operational strategy, franchise growth, and industry advocacy. 

Tools, Frameworks, or Strategies Mentioned:

• Servant leadership principles
• Welcome, Wanted, Important customer culture
• Guerrilla marketing strategies for rent to own
• Virtual rent to own and e commerce growth models
• Customer collections and relationship management systems
• Franchise operations scaling strategies
• The “Law of the Lid” leadership framework
• APRO industry advocacy and consumer access initiatives
• Leadership development through Failure Forward and The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership

Closing Insight:

“Titles don’t matter. People matter.”

Michael Bennett’s story is a reminder that the future of rent to own will always depend on leadership, adaptability, customer relationships, and investing in people at every level of the business.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Pete Cow.
You may know me from the Arch GoShow podcast, but today I'm
doing something a little bitdifferent.
April and Wild Brands havelaunched a special project to
bring the story of our industryto life like never before.
And the reason for the future.
And now I get to do thoseconversations.

(00:21):
With the legends.
The book is quite fast, but RTOaddressed that is defined.
And the features that we'rebuilding together.

(00:42):
Here's where you cut it.
Quick and with quick copies ofWinto Book 2.
Just head over toRTORevolution.com and sign up
for a chance to receive a copyof O2026.
Don't miss the chance to beamong the first to hold this
piece of RTO history.
That's rtoorevolution.com.
Check it out and become a partof RTO History.

(01:12):
Hello, welcome to the RTO ShowPodcast.
I'm your host, Pete Chao, andtoday we've got a legend here.
Now, most of the time I usuallysay, you might not know because
these guys have done it a longtime ago.
Now they sit back, they have theability to run it from afar or
kind of do things a little bitdifferently.
Not Mr.
Michael Bennett, not MichaelBennett.

(01:33):
He is in the trenches all daylong.
I think I see your faceeverywhere, Mike.
I think, you know, whether it bethe April meetings or whether it
be the board meetings or whetherit be you know just something
that's going on Buddy's homefurnishings.
Uh I've I've seen a lot of theguys, I I see Mitchell Lee
everywhere, right?
I see him on the podcast tours,I see I see him everywhere.
He's been on the show, uh, donea great job.
How are you doing this morning,Mike?

(01:54):
How's everything going?
Hey, doing great, Pete.

SPEAKER_01 (01:57):
Glad to join you.
Finally, right?
You've been after me for awhile.
So uh excited to be here withyou this morning and uh share a
little bit of my history.

SPEAKER_00 (02:05):
So uh just yeah, just so you guys know, I'm
trying to I'm trying to nailMichael down, and I've I've got
to kind of throw jabs atCharles.
Charles, help me out here.
Help me, I gotta get, I gottaget.
No, but honestly, this is forthe Legends program.
And the reason that Mike's hereis because he does a great job
as the CEO of Buddy's HomeFurnishings at the moment, but
he's also been a three-timepresident of April, which is the

(02:27):
Association of ProgressiveRental Organizations, and one of
only what is it two that hasmade a three-time term?

SPEAKER_01 (02:37):
That that's what they say.
That's what they say.
I I think that is correct.
I've tied the amount of time,but uh it's been a great ride
and happy to turn the reins overto Dan.
He's doing a great job kickingit off, and Charles is
phenomenal.
So the industry and fishermen.

SPEAKER_00 (02:55):
And so so was this like an FDR thing where they
were like, listen, we're wecan't he can't go for another
term.
We gotta fix this.
How does it how does real quick,how does the April term work?
You you have uh what is it twoyears, right?
Is it a two-year term that youserve, and then you you go back
up for let's say uh therecognition of or the ability to
take that chair again, and thenthe board either votes on it or

(03:17):
they just say it's time to bringon a no a new body.
How does that work?

SPEAKER_01 (03:21):
No, every year those that have been elected renounce
their positions and arere-elected by the board of
directors.
Nominations happen and the boardvotes, and that's how it works.
So three years, I think thefirst time I was elected, and
the next year I drop, and thenyou know, I get re-elected.
And so this time I said, Hey,I've been through three, three

(03:43):
years.
There are other people that areexcited about this, and you
know, the continuity of APRO isgetting everyone's voice out
there.
And uh, you don't want to besitting too long, but uh
certainly a privilege to servethe industry at that level.
Uh, appreciate the confidence inthe board of directors.
And we navigated, you know, sometimes uh that we had to manage

(04:03):
through.
We had to manage through achange in CEO.
Uh we had to manage through um,you know, some membership
decline and then a bounce backuh with getting membership back
up.
So, you know, very excited aboutwhat we've accomplished, very
excited about the um of of wherewe are today and whose hands

(04:24):
it's in driving the bus.
Uh Charles and his team, they'redoing a phenomenal job and and
really helping the board, makingit easy, you know, making
decisions easy.
So very excited about the pathforward and and the you know
technology that we're gettinginto, writing books, doing
podcasts, you know, making surethat we get information out
there about our industry.

(04:45):
That's important.
The message is important.
That's why we go to Washingtonevery year.
We we want to get the messageout.
Uh we want to get the messageout not just about our industry,
but about the customers weserve.
And those customers are both ourassociates and the paying
customers.
Really important for us toprotect them.
And love that as a backbone forthe industry.

SPEAKER_00 (05:07):
Well, I gotta say, I didn't know much about Joe when
Joe was here.
I was more of a I played more ofa background situation and I was
just an RM.
I came and I bought stuff.
I didn't really have the samesituation that I have now.
And then when Danny and Idecided that we wanted to start
taking on the podcast and startreally kind of stretching it
out, a little bit more of thatwhen we finally started kind of
getting into our stride, Dannymade a move and then Charles

(05:30):
came in.
So in all of that, I reallydidn't get to meet her that
well.
But I can tell you right now,from what I can see, and I can't
compare as much, but I can tellyou, he hit the ground running.
He's got a lot going on, andhe's doing a very well playing.
Uh we talk about this all thetime with the uh APRO staff.
It's like, it's like it used tobe where Waldo.
It's like, where's Charlestoday?
And I can honestly say, I mean,he's probably traveled all 50

(05:53):
states three times over at thetime that he's been there, but
he does such an amazing jobshowing up and being there,
representing APRO and thesupport that they have and they
give and just kind of showingthere's a new sheriff in town,
and this is a whole differentball game.
It just looks, feels brighter,newer, more compliant, more you
know, when you have a guy whohas that kind of ambition, like

(06:14):
you said, we got the book, wegot the podcast, there are other
things that are in the works,and if you don't know about it,
they're coming.
It's just nice to see that youknow, sometimes people are like,
I I don't know what else to do.
And then you find somebody withthat drive to say, Oh, well,
there's a lot.
Let me show you what that is.
Talking about drive andambition, when did you decide

(06:34):
you know what?
I think I should I think Ibelong to the RTO industry
before you even started.
Whoa, because everybody has thatthat that story, and nobody
nobody was like RTO before theygot into RTO.
You think I've had Carlsalesman, I've had nurses, I've
had all kinds of people.
What did the young MichaelBennett do before the the the

(06:54):
insertion of himself into theRTO industry?

SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
Well, uh, how deep do you want to go?
That's a rabbit hole, Pete.
That's a rabbit hole.
I I'd say, I'd say, you know,just a quick snapshot.
As a kid, I always found ways tomake money, you know, and and
we'll just bypass that.
Um you know, whether it'sKool-Aid stands, whether it's
you know, yard sales, whetherit's uh buying candy and selling

(07:18):
it for double the cost, uh, youknow, whatever I could do to
make a buck back then as a kid,uh, we didn't come for much.
So, you know, you were hustling,and that that's the key, you
know.
You you had to earn something.
So, you know, but fast forwardthrough high school and college,
graduated from Weber College andthen got into the hotel

(07:39):
business.
Actually, I was in hotel salesmanagement and for about nine
months.
I I got a little bored with it,to be honest.
But it was corporate sales, so Idid a lot of door-to-door
handshaking, uh, a lot of whatwe do in RTO, you know, getting
out there and uh doing thatguerrilla marketing.
So that came early to me.
But that's where I kind ofentered into the sales arena.

(08:00):
But uh I found an opportunity toopen up my own business about
nine months in.
I I heard there was a problem,and the problem to solve was
turning apartments.
When people move out, how do youhow do you get apartments to be
new again for the next tenant?
We call the turnkey.
And so I heard about it, knewnothing about how to do it,
didn't know how to paint, didn'tknow how to, you know, I mean,

(08:22):
clean.
Yeah, we all know how to clean.
Some of us weren't better thanothers, but you know, I just
said, hey, I could do this.
And so I started talking topeople, figured out how to get
the equipment, and uh decidedreally to quit the job and start
the business.
So got into that, learnedbusiness management, learn how
to do my taxes, learn, you know,all the things that you need to

(08:44):
do.
Go out, sell, get an account,build a crew, build a team.
And so, you know, I was in that.
There is some story within that,but I'll fast forward because we
have limited time and I don'twant to pour to your audience.
But, you know, five years in, Isold the business to a
competitor.
It was good for me, and I exitedand got into the healthcare

(09:06):
consulting business.
So I always loved numbers andloved finance, and I had an
opportunity with a companycalled Stoneburner Associates
out of Atlanta, which is where Igrew up.
And I started with them as ahealthcare financial consultant
and went into hospitals,doctors' offices, mostly MRI
units, actually.
MRI was a big thing back then.
My job was to teach people,doctors, how to manage their

(09:26):
money, how to collect.
So enter collections.
And what I would do is go intounits instead of turning that
that's it's that's a ball gameright there.

SPEAKER_00 (09:35):
Collections in itself to teach somebody how to,
you know, to teach somebody howto bill one thing is one thing.
To teach them how to collect onit, that's a whole different
ball game.

SPEAKER_01 (09:43):
Yeah, you have to have an approach, but you also
have to be a human.
You know, you have to talk topeople like they are people, you
know, treat them like family,but have, you know, understand
what the terms are of theagreement and and make sure that
they understand that you'rethere to hold them accountable,
but also to help them and figureout a way to get you know that
payment.

(10:04):
So I spend time uh on uh helpingpeople collect money, helping
boards and hospitals, instead ofturning your public over to
collection agencies and ruiningtheir credit, how do we collect
money the old-fashioned way withrelationships and commitments
and follow-up?
And that's really where Ilearned collections.

(10:24):
So there I am at sales, there Iam at business management,
building teams, and then you hitthe ground running on
collections and put thattogether.
Well, here comes RTO.
The business sold that I wasworking for, I was asked to
relocate and do a lot oftraveling, and I felt like after
just getting married, thatwasn't what our marriage needed.

(10:45):
So I turned the page and said,you know, we're staying put here
in Orlando, Florida, and let melet me pick up the paper.
You know, back then peopleadvertise in papers.
It's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Yeah, I know.
It doesn't even happen anymore.

SPEAKER_01 (10:56):
Yeah, that's uh, you know, when you said the legends,
I know you're doing the legendsseries.
I don't consider myself alegend, but I guess from a time
stamp standpoint, if you had apaper and you were picking it up
looking for jobs, that kind ofmarks me time.
It makes me, I guess, in theballgame.
Yeah, yeah.
So um, so you know, I foundRent's own and uh I answered the

(11:18):
call, and at that point it wasto Rena Center.
It was a franchise of RenaCenter, the largest franchise
they had, and they had uhFlorida.
And you know, Pete, I wentthrough like six interviews.
Today we do an interview and wehire somebody quick, right?
I went through six interviews toget a job that paid me minimum
wage with a four-year education.

(11:39):
Now, why did I do it?
I did it, oh, and and by theway, I started on a truck,
right?
So, you know, not only that, butyou're gonna go out and you're
gonna make deliveries andreturns, and you know, that's
what you're gonna start.
And that's not what I went tocollege for, but I met a guy
named Tim Hogan, who was at thatpoint a zone manager, a
multi-unit, and he really soldme on the opportunity of rent

(12:02):
own.
And that was back in '93.
And I said, you know what, Tim,I'm gonna join Rent Own.
I'm gonna join your team becauseI believe in you, because that's
what our business is.
It's about people.
And uh, as long as you show methe light at the end of the
tunnel, I'll keep striving forit.
And and if you turn it off, I'mout of here.
You know, I'm out.
I I'm not gonna waste time andI'm not gonna waste your time.

(12:24):
But I've got a mission.
I want to succeed, I want tohelp you, and you're gonna help
me progress.
I know people say that all thetime.
They want your job.
Okay, great.
But a lot of people don'tachieve it because that's what
they're saying to get the job.
I meant it.
I meant it.
You know, we're gonna help eachother.
And finding that partnershipwith that person above you every
single part of your career isreally important to make sure

(12:48):
that you're helping the personahead of you, but also stressing
what you're looking for.
What what hey, I need somethingout of this too.
We need a win-win.
So that's where I started.
And uh I spent the first 10years of my career working
through management intomulti-unit management with Rena
Center in Florida.
And I'll pause there.
I don't know, I can tell you godown the road as far as you know

(13:12):
the whole career, real quick.

SPEAKER_00 (13:13):
Well, well, we're gonna, we're gonna touch on
that.
Because honestly, even juststepping back a second, uh, and
I believe it was Gary V thatsaid this, and I could I could
be wrong.
I've I've I've quoted him a fewtimes on I don't know what
originated, and I believe itdid, but back in the day, that
was one of the things thatsometimes he looks in for people
who are gonna be management orpeople who have drive, somebody

(13:35):
who used to go out and hustle asa youth in different ways.
And you know, whether it waslike the baseball cards, whether
it was the basketball cards,whether it was the paper route,
whether it was the candy, andand you know, Buffett started
out with the candy, and it wasone of those things like you can
tell the talent up front.
It wasn't you don't need aneducation for the hustle, you
need an education to fine-tuneit.

(13:57):
And so, you know, when you saidthat, and then as as you're
going, I you know it's funnybecause I I hear you talking
about you know the collectionsand the sales and it's spoken
like a CEO.
I could hear it coming out ofyou as just me and saying it.
But you know, six interviews, uhTim Hogan in 93.
Now there are four companiesthat we're gonna talk about.

(14:18):
Am I right?
Is it it's it's a Rennes Center,it's uh Rentway, it's uh
Aaron's, uh, and then we landedat Buddies, and this is this is
where the impact really comesin.
That's why I'd like to thinkthat the impact really comes in.
But yeah, take me back.
Take me back to the Renic Centerdays, if they're number one on
the list, and how did youtransition through them?
You know, if you could, what wasit something that you took away

(14:41):
from these businesses?
Because even though we do allthe same thing, and I always
tell everybody, you know,McDonald's is maybe the number
one, but Burger King does thesame thing in a different way,
right?
Wendy's does the same thing in adifferent way.
They are completely differententities, yet they all serve
what you would sound like is thesame thing, but they're not.
What was it, you know, as you'regoing through these, what was

(15:02):
something you can take away fromthem?

SPEAKER_01 (15:04):
Yeah, I think Renaissance was about a system,
and it doesn't matter whether itwas franchise or corporate, you
had a system that you followed.
Um in my day, uh back then,Aaron's or uh sorry, we aren't
Aaron's yet, but Rennes Centerwas very uh entrepreneurial as a

(15:24):
corporate as a uh franchise,right?
And when we went to corporate,it was very structured, but
still the same system.
And uh you know, my takeaway wasto blend a business.
You know, you have to have theentrepreneurial spirit and have
the ability to make decisions,but you also have to follow a
rigid system at times becauseit's the system that actually

(15:47):
produces the result.
So finding that balance, I thinkthat's what it really taught me.
And of course, that first 10years, I bounced around
everywhere.
I mean, I started in in Florida.
I started in Orlando, I ended upin Miami, I went back, I went up
to Gainesville, so I pretty muchdid the bottom, the middle, and
the top of Florida.

(16:07):
And um They did send you allover.
Yeah.
So I, you know, I also honed myskills with understanding
there's gonna be a lot ofproblems, a lot of different
people that you're gonna workwith, but you have to use that
system and you have to encouragepeople to get what they came
here for, not just a paycheck,but you know, find out what it
is that they want, why they'rehere, and how can you help them

(16:30):
along the way to achieve that?
Take a personal interest inpeople, and you'll get so much
back.
You know, some people call thatservant leadership.
You can you can put a tag downany anything you want, but you
gotta serve people.
That's what this industry isabout.
So I think, you know, as I lookback, Rena Center at that time

(16:50):
and and still today is a verygood company.
Uh, but I was very proud, andI've been proud of every single
company for different reasons,but you know, very proud of that
that foundation that Rena Centergave me.
And, you know, I look back andand I see one thing that
happened.
We we were on three times, peak,in my 10 years.
You know, the industry the RenaCenter had three different

(17:12):
managers, and one of the ones atthe very end was when Renner's
Choice bought Rena Center andErnie Talley, Mr.
T's, you know, early, earlyindustry before my time.
Ernie Talley bought that companyand he had vision.
And I, you know, one thing Itake away, and I often tell the
story that when Ernie came in,he looked at the business and he
said, Hey, we're gonna flipthese boxes upside down, we're

(17:35):
gonna put what we want in thoseboxes, we're gonna get core
items at great prices, and we'regonna get away, get get rid of
all the things that people canafford with a paycheck.
We want to get core goods and wewant to get them at great prices
and give great service.
He kept it simple and weunderstood it.
And you know, I watched thatcompany go from fifteen, sixteen

(17:57):
bucks a share to eighty andsplit in five years.
So, you know, he had a visionand he made it simple.
I mean, the man carried a pocketcard around with him with names
on it in his pocket of thepeople he met that were going to
help the success of hisbusiness.
So, you know, I I look at thatand say, hey, he's in touch with

(18:18):
the people, he's he's out there,he's present, and he has a
vision and a strategy, and he'sgonna follow that strategy.
And I think that in itself, uh,if you can get people bought
into that, you can do greatthings.
You can build a culture.
But you know, quick story.
I was actually on the renter'schoice side.

SPEAKER_00 (18:34):
I I had no idea that we were even going to do
anything as grand as that.
I mean, renter's choice, I wasso busy, again, and we'll get
back to this on the truck,because at the time my account
management was, you know, getin, get your calls done, make
sure that you take care ofeverything, load up your truck,
and then you have to take careof you know deliveries, the
services, the returns, therepairs, whatever you had to do,

(18:55):
you know, take a lunch, youknow, probably go back on the
road, try to get some somemarketing in as you have the
ability to and get a second callthrough it in a daytime.
You know, we did that in shirtand tie, and I remember those
days very, very, very wellbecause in South Florida it it
was a warm, warm day, uh, as youknow.
And so uh when I heard about thethe whole Renaissance deal, I

(19:17):
was I was like, okay, wow, thisis this is different.
We actually had a Rena Centerabout uh four or five miles
away.
And that whole thing was huge.
It was huge.
And uh when I really startedgetting into it, because at that
point I was just an accountmanager, I didn't really know
much.
But you know, as the upperlevels of management started

(19:38):
kind of filling us in and whatwas going on when we converted,
I mean, it was like you said, itwas like this trajectory where
we just kind of took off andeverything was so important.
It was there were so many greatnames of people that I met and
knew back then that are now alsoprobably legends in their own
right.
But you know, Mark Spee StanaGobel, a couple of the guys that

(19:59):
that were were on top of theladder, you know, when Ernie
Talley, you know, took a stepback.
And it was just crazy.
It's crazy that you mentionedthat because that's that's
actually my start was inRenner's Choice with somebody
who did the same thing.
I hadn't I had no idea whatRentone was.
And uh he was doing his job bygoing out there and he saw
somebody, saw some what I don'tknow what he saw, but he said,
you know what, I I like you, Iwant you to come on by.

(20:21):
And he sold me the dream.
And like you, I said the exactsame thing.
You know what?
I'll I'll try it.
But I mean, I was working at abank at the time, so I was like,
I don't know if this is gonnawork for me.
It's not what I do.
Uh but if I if I find value init, you know, we'll make it go.
And here we are, years later.
Now I'm not the CEO of buddies,but at the same time, I would

(20:42):
tell you that I agree with you100%.
Like if you give thatleadership, you give that value,
and you create thoserelationships with the people
that work for you, with you, andaround you, they will last, they
will stay, at least the ones whowant to.
So that's that's awesome tohear.
So then you're doing all this,you're going from Orlando,
you're going to Miami, you're, Imean, you're literally the face

(21:02):
of Florida.
What kind of transition fromthere to Rentway?

SPEAKER_01 (21:08):
So I'd been with Rack for 10 years, and some of
the folks that started uh on thefranchise side ended up with
Rentway.
And there was an opportunity fora vice president of operations
in the Carolinas, and theyreached out to me, solicited me.
So I interviewed and decided,you know, this is where the next

(21:29):
step of my journey begins.
There was a couple of promotionsthat happened in Florida.
Uh, I was entertained for that,but unfortunately, for some
reason, they decided not to, youknow, select me.
So I felt like, okay, again,light at the end of the tunnel,
right?
I I I was here, I was working, Iwas successful, um, you know,
getting plaques, accolades.

(21:52):
However, it's not all aboutthat.
It's not about the Attaboys.
I wanted to progress and I said,Hey, let's let's take on a
challenge.
That time, um, you know, it wasa tough, a tough time to make a
pivot because Rentway had justgone through some improprieties,
you know, accountingimproprieties, and it seemed
like from the outside looking inthat they were you know done

(22:12):
with that.
And I saw them as a competitorin Florida, saw that the
opportunities they had,honestly, in their operation,
and felt like I could make adifference.
So I took the interview, andafter taking that interview, uh
they made me an offer and Imoved up to the family, the
Carolinas, and I took over whatI didn't know.
I guess I didn't ask enough goodquestions, which was the you

(22:35):
know, the worst region uh orvision that they had in the in
the country.
So that was fun.
It it definitely definitelycaused me to dig deep.
But once again, it's about thepeople.
How are they being treated?
What are the problems?
What are the pain points?
Any company I've gone into, it'susually there's been a problem

(22:56):
or they're going through atransition.
And the first thing you got tounderstand is what is the
problem?
What is the pain point?
You know, if you can get thosewhiteboarded and understand what
it is, talk to the people, makesure they understand that you
understand and that they'regoing to be a part of the
solution and they have ideas,and those ideas are what's going
to propel us more than likely togetting where we need to be.

(23:18):
That was the Carolinas.
You know, I started out with theGeorgia division, then it was
the Carolina division, theyshifted me.
But, you know, uh, that was uhthat was a tough time.
I mean, I made the transition, Iwas excited about the
opportunity, but about a yearin, Pete, they decided to make a
pivot and ask me to step down orstep out.

(23:39):
And I don't mind sharing thatbecause we all have struggles in
the career, and I've skippedover quite a few of my struggles
in the personal life up to thispoint.
I'm not going backwards withyou.
But but I will tell you, youknow, uh, you know, I had I had
an opportunity, you know, thethe division was was bleeding.
After a year, we turned a buck,literally a buck in profit.

(24:00):
But that wasn't enough.
Unfortunately, they needed a lotmore based on where the company
had had downshifted from.
They had already divested somestores with Rena Center.
But uh, I think we had about1,200 stores and then down to
800 stores.
And when I came in, and and sothey said, hey, if you'd like to
take a region or you can stepaway.

(24:21):
And and I said, Wow, you know, II hit the gas here, right?
I I turned to I turned a profit,although a very small one.
This place was on fire, right?
But what I loved about Rentway,and I always take away the good.
I learn from the tough and theand maybe the bad.
But what I learned about Rentwayis, and and I'm speaking to all
the Rentway people that havebeen out there, is the welcome,

(24:43):
wanted, and important culture.
We are family.
That was always there, no matterwhat.
And I'd say it strengthenedduring the accounting and
proprieties, and they had somegreat management.
Really.
I mean, there was great peoplethere.
It's just unfortunate thatsometimes people above you or
out of out of your line of sightmight make decisions that end up

(25:05):
impacting a company, right?
But the people at the level ofexecution, us in the field, the
people that were in the field,the ones I joined were were
phenomenal people.
And and that's why I joined.
I knew some of those people.
They migrated from Comcoa orRenaissance or over.
They followed leadership.
And so um I did the thing thatmost people didn't think I would

(25:29):
do, which was renounce my titlebecause titles don't mean
anything, Pete.
They really don't.
They don't mean anything.
Okay, people mean everything.
And so um I took the challenge.
I took over what was the secondworst out of 102 regions and
within nine months, brought itin the top 10.

(25:49):
And I did it specificallybecause some of the people from
Florida followed me up to theCharleston area, and I wasn't
gonna desert those people.
You know, you show yourcharacter when the chips are
down, and absolutely, and yougot to power through and you've
got to struggle through withpeople, that's important.
And so I stayed on, and uh wewe, you know, at the end,

(26:12):
management was kind of bragging,you know, about hey, look what's
happened here, and that's good.
And that was my cue.
That was my cue to say, you knowwhat, I've done enough, and um
it's it's time for me to lookfor something that's gonna
challenge me more.
And and I don't know if I justgot lucky and got out because
that ended up selling, the wholecompany ended up selling back to
Rent A Center, and that's howRentway went away, right?

(26:35):
But again, great people, I don'tnecessarily agree with the
decision, but it taught me a lotto you know to take that step.
And it taught me it, you know, Ilearned a lot about myself that
you know you can say titlesdon't matter, but when you say,
hey, I'll downshift, you know,I'm gonna go from fifth to
fourth or third, and then youhelp people and you be you you

(26:55):
show your again success throughthose people, well, that's
great.
And I, you know, when that wasdone, a few of those people that
followed me, I got them back toFlorida and with Rennes Center.
A couple of those people I left,and I had actually I was
solicited again.
Um, and it actually was one ofmy regional managers that I
managed, um, James Pearson inAtlanta, made a call to a guy he

(27:21):
knew at Aaron's, TristanMontenero, and said, Hey, you
need to talk to this guy.
He's like, Well, you know, and Italked to James, I was like,
James, what did you do that for?
Why did I mean I'm yoursupervisor?
And you called him and told him,he goes, because you're good
people.
And, you know, I knew that theywere looking for somebody in
Atlanta.
So I hit it off with Tristan.

(27:41):
He came over and met me in SouthCarolina for dinner one night.
And and I told him, I said,really, I appreciate it, but I'm
not looking for a lateral move.
I'm looking for some somethingelse.
And uh and that was early.
That was after I had shifteddown and James had called about
me taking over a regionalposition.
And and so I told Tristan, Isaid, look, let's stay in touch.
And about nine months later,eight, nine months later, he

(28:04):
called me up and he said, Hey,there's an opportunity here.
There's uh, you know, and if Iwasn't a VP at Aaron's in my
position, I would be partneringup, you know, and and running
this company.
And so he said, There's anopportunity where I know
somebody in franchise is lookingfor an operator.
And so I said, All right, let'sI just took the interview and

(28:27):
decided this is what was rightfor me.
I'm gonna join Aaron's.
And uh a couple of the peoplethat were with me at Rentway
decided they wanted to come withme.
Uh, and we we formed thatpartnership.
I went over to run the secondlargest franchise at Aaron's and
also was a minority equitypartner in the deal.
And wow.

(28:48):
Yeah.
So that was part of thenegotiation, and you know, got
in and these units that we gotwere in the 40,000 average
range.
You don't make money at thatwith Aaron's, you don't make
money normally in rent own withthat.
And so about three and a halfyears, well, let's just say once
again, went over.
What are the problems?

(29:08):
Let's whiteboard them, what'sthe pain points?
I wanted to make sure thateverybody that came over on my
team, because it was allmulti-unit management, there
were gaps to be filled, theylearn Aaron's program.
And Julie Scott, great person,was a trainer for Aaron's, and I
wanted to get my people in thoseclasses and learn and really

(29:30):
engulf, digest, immerse in thebusiness that was Aaron's.
And so we did just that.
We uh all went to a hotel room.
I put up big post-it notes onthe walls, we wrote down
everything we had learned thefirst month in.
We came out with a strategy anduh we went to work.
We got the people together, wehad consistent store visits and

(29:52):
meetings, uh, set the strategy,set the tone, and we started
following the program.
That was one of the big issues.
We've we followed the program.
We we engulfed, we we gotinvolved in the in the
purchasing program, we gotinvolved in the marketing
program instead of just tryingto buy what we thought was the
right thing or something cheap.

(30:14):
Marketing, you know, you gottado it, right?
You you gotta touch new faces.
And and and Aaron's you know,had a website and had a flyer
and you know, had a guerrillamarketing program, and so we
went after it.
But um, three and a half yearsin, we hit I think it was
111,000 average per store.

(30:35):
And at that point, it was timeto divest.
That was right around 08 whenthe Great Recession hit, and uh
ownership said, hey, look, Ithink this is the right thing to
do.
And at that time it was theright call.
I I felt like we had so muchmore to give, built a beautiful
team.
The people were awesome, andagain, people, people, people.

(30:55):
And I was just fortunate to be,you know, in that leadership
position and and helping thosepeople along the way.

SPEAKER_00 (31:01):
So I would tell you, I I I actually literally have on
here, where were you in the2000, 2007, eight financial
crisis?
I literally had that question onhere.
And it's funny that you comeacross that because uh I think
it affected a lot of usdifferently.
You know, I wasn't in thatsituation, uh, but it it's it's
very different.
And, you know, the welcomewanted, important, you're not

(31:22):
the only person that has broughtthat up from that era, from
that, you know, it was somethingthat stuck to a lot of people.
And it's crazy how many, many,many years later, out of all the
things that I hear, being in theposition that I'm in and talking
to the people that I I I see,that's something that comes up
quite often.
It was it was a great part ofthe culture that they built, and
it was amazing to hear that.

(31:44):
So if you're looking at whereyou've been and what you've
done, how important uh were thesetbacks?
Were they just as important asthe successes?

SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
Yeah, I mean, look, that's like that's like
sharpening the sword, right?
It makes you stronger.
Um at any time you have asetback, you have two options.
You can either complain about itor just try to justify and
complain, which is a no-no in mybook.
That is management principle101.
Do not justify and blame.

(32:16):
If you are a person that wantsto justify and blame your
performance, you're goingnowhere.
So you gotta accept it, yougotta face it.
Hell, write it down.
No, write it down and look at itand say, okay, I can't figure
this out.
Who are the people around methat I could talk to that could
help me figure this out?
You know, bring people in.

(32:37):
There's a lot of talent outthere, and titles don't matter.
They don't matter.
People matter.
Anybody, anybody, you know, bigold tires, you know big old
tires?
I heard about this one time.
So I was in a meeting, and Ithink the the guy that was
running Big O' Tires talkedabout how they saved it.
And I guess there was a problemat one point.
I took him for his word, andthey were gonna go bankrupt.

(33:00):
And they brought everybodytogether, you know, all the guys
in the white shirts that werethe managers, and they brought
everybody together into ameeting and they said, Hey, what
can we do?
And they didn't have an answer.
So they went out and it got onsite and they brought their
people in and said, Hey, whatcan we do different to save this
company?
If we don't do something to getour revenues up, we're gonna

(33:20):
we're gonna close, right?
We're all gonna be out of work.
And it was as the guy said,because I don't label people
like this, but I'm gonna quoteit.
He's he said, There was a guy, agrease monkey.
Okay, a guy that works on cars,his hands are all dirty, he's in
the back of the pack, and allthe management's up front.
And he goes, Hey, I got an idea.

(33:41):
And he says, What's your idea?
He goes, I think, I think whenpeople pull in the parking lot,
we ought to run out there withour clipboard and we gotta find
out what their problem is and wegotta fix it as quick as we can.
Now, I think that's kind of howhe said it.
But the deal was get to thecustomer quick.
You know, people are gettinginto our parking lot, they're

(34:02):
walking in, they're waiting inline to be serviced.
Get out there at the car, findout, hey, what's going on?
You know, how can I help youtoday?
Start making notes, walk themin, turn them over, and let's
get them serviced.
You know, let's take care ofthem.
That right there supposedlysaved that company.
That one idea.

(34:22):
So titles don't matter.
That's what that taught me whenI heard that.
It's people that matter.
It's the ideas.
And sometimes trying people'sideas, even when you know that
maybe you think you've you'venot tried it and maybe it didn't
work for you, it doesn't matter.
It matters about the passion ofthe person that wants to try it.
They may actually do a betterjob than you.

(34:43):
So don't doubt people.

SPEAKER_00 (34:44):
I got a little bit Did you ever have one of those?
Did you ever have one of thoseoccurrences where there was some
time that you were you were youwere up against the wall, there
were things that needed to befigured out, and somebody on
your team or somebody from thesame team, whether it be the
rent rental center team or theright way team, that came up and
said, Mike, I think this is agreat idea.
I don't know if it's gonna work.
I think this is a great idea.
And implementation kind ofshowed from the grassroots side

(35:07):
of it, from the from somebodywho sees it every single day,
the solution, almost as simpleas that seems, was a little bit
out of grasp and thought.
And now somebody brings it tothe forefront and we use it, and
there it is.

SPEAKER_01 (35:18):
Yeah, I mean, look, there's so many opportunities
where, and I'll I'll approach itfrom this in management, you're
gonna talk to people and they'renot always gonna agree with you.
They're gonna have their ownideas, and sometimes it's just
it's just better to allow thatperson to go out there and do
it, even if you think they'regonna fail.

(35:39):
You know, you asked me, have youhad those moments where you know
you fail in essence and youlearn from it?
Uh you've got to let peoplefail.
That is that is part of the job.
You just have to minimize therisk, the downside risk of that
failure.
So, yeah, all the time.
You know, it could be, you know,someone says, I want to run this

(36:00):
marketing promotion, and you'relike, Yeah, we ran that, and
I've seen the data on that.
But you're like, you know,they're passionate about it.
They're passionate.
You know, Phil, you know Phil.
He was on the call the other dayand we were with the marketing
group.
That's probably why it poppedinto my mind.
And he says, Hey, you know, wewe want to run the Cyber Monday,

(36:21):
and you know, we want to do adiscount.
And and I'm like, gosh, youknow, there's franchisees that
don't want to put discounts, youknow, in these things.
They don't want to give moneyaway, especially at Christmas
when people are going to be, youknow, putting money down.
And I'm like, well, you know,hey, what if we just do, you
know, pay a week, get a week?
I mean, that's like the oldestpromotion in rent owned, right?

SPEAKER_00 (36:42):
You know that was chiseled in the first listings
of what happened to Rent to Ownand the first EDDMs buy a week,
get a.
I think that was my mantra forthe first two years of my rent
to own career.

SPEAKER_01 (36:52):
Yep, yeah.
And so, you know, I say thatthinking, okay, anybody would
accept that.
You know, any franchisee wouldbe like, yeah, I'll give them a
week down.
You know, so if you want to putan offer in there, go ahead and
put that in there.
Maybe that's a starting point.
Now, it doesn't have to be myidea, but and then I people
start asking me, well, why, why,why just a week?

(37:13):
And I'm like, well, why not?
You know, specifically, wemarket to different channels,
right?
And over 80% of the customersthat put in orders at Buddies
online are new customers.
They're maybe seeing our offerfor the first time.
We internally think, oh gosh,yeah, pay a week, get a week.

(37:33):
We're not excited about that.
Everybody's seen this.
Everybody's seen this.
Yeah, we're not excited aboutit.
But what about the new personthat's never gotten into our
industry or never seen an offer?
That that could be like, wow,you know, I can spread it thin
to win.
I only have a hundred bucks, butif I could put, you know, 30
down here and get this, I've got70 that I can spend somewhere

(37:53):
else for presents.
So we talked through all that,and again, adults want to know
why, so you explain the why.
And all of a sudden peoplestarted getting energy and they
came up with a promotion.
I got the heck out of the way.
But it wasn't my idea.
I threw something into the punchbowl, and they ended up deciding
what else was going in, andultimately they drank the punch.

SPEAKER_00 (38:16):
Hopefully, some of the biggest fires come from the
smallest sparks.
And just giving them an idea andletting them, you know,
understand it, grow with it, andhave ownership of a part of it
gives them that buy-in to say,this is gonna work.
And I I think half the problemor half the situation that we
face right now is that you know,it's not that the idea is good

(38:38):
or the idea is bad.
It has merit or it doesn't havemerit.
I think the idea is if you havethe buy-in from whoever's
pitching this idea and whoever'simplementing it will be a vastly
different outcome than if theydon't.
And you can have some people whohave the same tools, the same,
you know, uh, hey, I got to buyweek, pay a week versus let me

(38:58):
show you the opportunity that Ihave for you today.
You came in on the best daywhere you can only put, you
know, whatever this dollaramount is, I can stretch it out
for you and we can make thismore happen.
And it when you compare that tosomebody who's just, you know,
it is what it is.
I think this is an old promotionversus somebody's like, I don't
care if it's old or not.
The idea is that I need to makethe best decision that I can for

(39:19):
the customers that are walkingin my door right now for this
fourth quarter to make ithappen.
This is what we got to do.
And when you have that buy-in,how different is the outcome?
Regardless of what you're doing,how different is that outcome?
And then, you know, as you'relooking at that, you're and
you're coming away from that.
So you said that this was at2008, right?

(39:39):
So where did you go back intorent to own immediately after
that?
Wasn't there a small gap betweenthat and budget?
Not that one.

SPEAKER_01 (39:47):
Uh backstory, Pete, and you know, talk about
struggle, right?
When you're a father and youhave two daughters and a wife,
and you've made a commitmentthat if you're going to have
kids, someone's got to be athome raising those kids.
You know, I grew up latchkey.
I grew up for a period of timethrough divorce, single mother,

(40:07):
taking responsibility as theolder sibling to get things
done.
And uh, you know, when you findalong your career, it pivots,
changes.
I mean, that was a big jumpgoing for rent a center to rent
way.
That was not only was thatrenouncing my title and taking a
step down, maybe taking incomedown, as I recall, but that

(40:29):
affected my family.
You know, I mean that that'swhat you learn is how to we deal
with people, but you know,there's the business side and
there's the personal side.
You gotta manage both sides whenyou're dealing with people.
Now, as people in business, ifbusiness is going good, don't
mess up if personal, don't bringyou net the negative in for

(40:52):
personal something's going wrongthere, and vice versa.
Keep one half, keep one half ingood state, right?
But yeah, um, what happenedaround you know 08, we we we
ended up selling back to uhAaron's, and I stayed around to
close down and transition thebusiness over to Aaron's, making
sure all of our co coworkerstransitioned right, felt good

(41:15):
about the opportunity of joiningcorporate.
I mean, really, we ran thebusiness like corporate.
So it was an easy transitionwithin the same uh system for
them to make that pivot.
But at that time, um, and thenKen Butler, who I will always be
indebted to.

SPEAKER_00 (41:34):
Anyway, I love Ken.
When I had him on the show, itwas an amazing, it was an
amazing time.
Just even being around him wasamazing.
I grew I grew up with him.
He was one of those legends thatI never thought that I would
ever get to meet in my life.
And when I did, I hate to say Iwas a little bit of a fanboy,
but it was just great to sitdown with him and have that
conversation because when I grewup, especially in the
Renaissance days, Ken Butler wasa boogeyman.

(41:54):
He was like, Erend is around thecorner.
That is something that we haveto work for, we have to make
happen.
And and he was he's he's a he'sa force, he's a force de jour
for sure.

SPEAKER_01 (42:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So he I met, you know, I had metKen early on, and he had tracked
our franchise and tracked me.
And at the conclusion of this,he came to me and said, Hey, you
know, I'd I'd like to have youcome to Atlanta and sit down
with me.
I'd like to talk about you knowthe potential of you staying on
with Aaron's.
I have an opportunity for you.

(42:25):
So I, you know, I traveled downto Atlanta and Ken and I talked,
and he said, Hey, look, I've gotan area up in the mid-Midwest,
Rust Belt area in Canada, andI'd I'd like for you to be a VP
of operations for us.
And you know, that was that wasjust you know phenomenal.
I said, Okay, you know, where doI have to go?
And he goes, We'll picksomewhere up there.

(42:46):
So I moved my family to Fishers,Indiana, which is the northeast
side of Indianapolis.
And uh much colder than Florida.
Uh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, much colder than Florida.
So, you know, bouncing Florida,South Carolina.
Now I'm over in India if you'retracking.
And so um, you know, he asked mein a at a conference, he blurted

(43:07):
out to me.
I remember one time, andeverybody was, you know, in
there at a company.
And I said, Bennett, what areyou gonna call it?
And one of the guys, GregBelloff leaned over, good guy
out of out of the Carolinas,he's a VP, still today, I
believe.
He um he said, Hey, you know,because he's from there, he
says, Great Lakes operations.
So, and I think, all right.
And I said, Great LakesOperations, Ken.

(43:29):
And he goes, All right, well,that's what we're gonna call it.
And so I kind of dubbed it glow.
I turned that into, you know, Ilove EDM music, and so, you
know, I love I I love that glow,right?
I love the lights.
And so, yeah, we had fun withthat, and you know, I was up
there six years in Indianapolisserving Michigan, Indiana,

(43:51):
Kentucky, lower half of Ohio,and northern half of Illinois,
and all of Ontario, Canada,which was corporate at that
time.
Time.
So yeah, you know, I was upthere for six years and things
changed.
It, you know, not to go intoKen's got a book if you, if he,
if, if you want, and you'restill a fanboy, you know, shout

(44:12):
out to him and say, Hey, can Iget a copy of your book?
It's a great read.
Talks about his history.
And, you know, Ken Ken found hisway out of errands after many,
many years, and that was veryunfortunate.
And a lot of the, you know,there were the people internally
that said, geez, you know, wehate it.
And and and the company startedchanging.
And then there were people, youknow, that were supporting the
new camp.

(44:32):
And and many of them stillthere, but a lot, some of them
still there, but a lot of thempay homage to both.
You know, they learn from thistransition and they've you know
continued on.
Matter of fact, Julie Scott'sstill there.
She'd run a franchiseoperations, and I think she's uh
just hit her 20th anniversary.
I think it was 20.
Sorry, Julie, if I'm wrong.
But um, but needless to say, um,you know, I I was in there for

(44:56):
six years.
We were making a run at openingup a lot of stores, and then
yeah, I got I got time off.
I was affiliated with a personwho was trying to, through the
company he owned, trying to buyerrands, and uh management
didn't take to that.
Now, they knew from day one thatI was on the advisory council,
but all that meant was I get acall now and then about rent

(45:18):
own, and and it was more so forthe owner than it was for me.
But I said, hey, I have nothingto do with that, didn't even
know.
You know, I I think managementwas a bit protective back then,
was a little concerned, it hadchanged over, Ken wasn't there,
and um I got uh I got a yearoff, Pete, and that's another
you know dip in the career.
It's like, whoa, wait a minutenow.

(45:38):
I've I've been in this careerlike 20 years at this point,
literally, and um, I think 22around that time.
Really?
I mean, wow, and here's myfamily again.
I'm sole earner.
But you know, I look, I signedthe deal, I took the year off,
and during that time I was, youknow, uh talking to different

(46:01):
people.
I couldn't I had to stay out ofthe industry, but there were
interested parties, and I waitedout the time and stayed
connected.
And uh, and then when the yearwas up, I was actually on my way
to Florida to do some scouting.
Ownership at that time hadoffered me to come down and said
that the opportunity to runbuddies was coming open.
And I said, you know, I'd I'dlove to come down and meet the

(46:24):
people, visit some storeswithout, you know, don't tell
them.
I want to see the culture as itis.
And I I bought into it and Ithought, hey, this is great.
But but uh I made a second tripdown to to to do another visit.
It's a big move coming back, andon my way back down, I got a
call from Rena Center.
And uh then they said, Hey, we'dreally love to have you

(46:47):
interview.
And I said, Well, I'm actuallygoing down for my second
interview and probably gonnaaccept this position, but if you
want to talk, you know, I'd I'dlove to talk with you.
And they said, All right, we'llfly you out.
So they flew me out when I gothere and I interviewed back at
uh in Plano.
And after going through someinterviews, I I decided the

(47:08):
right thing for me at the timewas because I don't think the
buddy's opportunity was readyjust yet.
The family that had been a partof it were still running it for
the new ownership.
And I said, you know, I needsomething to sink my teeth in.
I need stability for the family.
I I you know I love Rena Center.
They taught me an awful lot.

(47:29):
And uh, you know, why not?
They have this thing calledAcceptance Now, which is the
virtual rent owned.
The guy that's running it, MarkDenman, met him, just loved the
guy.
And the guy that was workingwith him as his uh first up was
Ron Schoolcraft.
And Ron was really running thethe operations, uh helped to to

(47:49):
to really start it.
And uh he was my assistantmanager back when I was a
regional manager in Tallahassee,Florida.

SPEAKER_00 (47:56):
And I remember going I gotta tell you, yeah, it is so
amazing.
I tell some, I tell everybodyall the time, you know, in the
world of rent to own, I haveseen the shift of people in the
business, whether they followyou to another company, and not
following you, but you know, youguys end up together in another
company, or you will end upworking for someone who used to

(48:17):
work for you, or vice versa.
You know, as large as thisindustry has become, it's still
tight-knit to the point whereyou can come across people that
you've been with four yearslater.
I've even done it here.
Uh, I've done it at ranking,I've done it here, and it's you
come across these people, and aslong as you keep those
relationships and those valuesthe same, and it's it's it's

(48:41):
amazing what it could do foryour career.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (48:44):
And hey, just to back up a minute, you know, from
an Aaron standpoint, love thecompany, love the culture.
You know, every companytransitions.
I don't, I I didn't leave with abad taste in my mouth, other
than I thought they made a baddecision management at that
time, but I understood why.
You know, I think again, youlook for the reasons, and a lot
of people have hard things intheir life and they keep telling

(49:06):
people about these hard thingsand how it hurt them.
I look back and say, how did ithelp me?
I wouldn't be here today talkingto you, Pete, if that hadn't
happened.
So I look back, I mean, this isno way I look back and say,
thank you, Rentway, for youknow, pushing me and giving me
the struggle.
Because if it wasn't for that, Iwouldn't be where I was at.

(49:28):
Rentway gave me the opportunityto meet Jason Spearson, who gave
me the opportunity to meetTristan Montenero that got me
into Aaron's and franchising.
And Ken, I met there and got mein on the corporate side.
And then, you know, Ken wasgone, new management was in, I
got a year off.
Okay.
But there are still people whenyou do the right thing by

(49:49):
people, and when you do theright thing when nobody's
looking, you know, peopleunderstand your integrity.
They can trust that.
And stick to that because youknow, don't don't lower your
integrity for other people andtheir greed.
You know, you you need to makesure that you are who you are
and you stay true to yourself,and the people around you will

(50:10):
see that and they will want tobe a part of what you're doing,
right?
At whatever level.
That's important.

SPEAKER_00 (50:18):
But when you take all the you take all these
experiences that you've beenthrough, because you have, I
mean, this is this is so far,this is a story.
You've got you've got a longlist of things that brought you
here, and then at the end ofthis, you end up where you are
in a whole different situationwhere you're literally running
this company, a very largecompany that has great some

(50:39):
great franchising uhopportunities, and you get here.
How beneficial was it, would yousay, that you ended up being in
Orlando, CEO of Buddy ToneFurnishings in the situation
that you're in now?
Like, you know, I always say,God bless a broken road.
I mean, it's always one of thosethings that that you wouldn't
have been able to do what youdid if you didn't finally get

(50:59):
here.
And as the CEO and and formerthree-time champ president of
APRO, what does the future looklike?
In your opinion, you know, as wekind of wind down, what is your
opinion of what's where we'regonna be in rent to own in the
next five or ten years?
I mean, you you were in thedriver's seat of a company
that's trying to do a lot ofgood things.

(51:19):
Where do you see us going?
Where's the direction?

SPEAKER_01 (51:22):
Yeah, I think first of all, people that would say,
hey, rent own, you know, is isdying out, or rent owned has had
a lot of ups and downs, uh, justlike any business.
But you know, it's been aroundsince as far back as I know,
with Aaron's Charlie started in55.
That's as early as CharlieLouder Milk started the business
in 55.
And there may be others, butthat's the one that I've worked

(51:42):
with.
And I would say every businesshas a cycle and you have to
stick to it.
The one thing I look at fordemographically, economically,
is that you know, we continue tocreate people in the income
demographic, right, that thisindustry serves.
And I don't see that going away.
So there will always be thatopportunity out there for our

(52:03):
industry.
Certainly, the industry over thelast 10, 15, 20, say even 20
years has pivoted.
You know, there's more virtualrent to own that is out there,
and we need to embrace it.
We need to understand thatvirtual rent to own brings more
people closer to us.
When I started, rent owned had abad name.

(52:24):
You know, it had a bad name.
It does not have a bad nametoday.
Every business has people thathave issues with their business,
and every people has bit youknow, people that love their
business.
That's just current state,anytime.
But when you look at thisindustry, um, I think we're
bringing more and more peopleinto it because of virtual rent

(52:45):
to own.
And even buy now pay later tosome extent is an extension of
rent to own, getting the productnow and making payments on it.
So I think the pivot is thatmore and more people are using
these products, which providesus an opportunity.
We just have to stay focused inthe brick and mortar world,

(53:05):
which I live in, and also, youknow, web.
I mean, we do web orders, we do,you know, the internet, we
follow technology to gaincustomers, and and that's going
to continue to advance.
But the key to this business, ifyou're in brick and mortar, is
about this, Speed.
It's about me and you.
It's it's going to be about youare the final mile, the last

(53:30):
mile in this.
We've always been Amazon.
We've always been Amazon thisindustry.
Before they were built, we weredoing the model.
Direct to door, white glovedelivery, show you how to do we
were doing beyond what they do,right?
And we still do today.
We got to keep doing that.
You know, we got to keep takingcare of our customers one at a
time, making them the number onerule that we serve them.

(53:53):
They may not always be right,but we gotta find a way to work
with them to stay in touch, stayin business.
So I do think that no, therethat will continue to exist, no
doubt about it.
I think, you know, with I don'twant this isn't a class in
macroeconomics, but you know,would certainly say that right

(54:14):
now people are having a toughtime.
You know, we're going through acycle.
You're gonna see a little,you're seeing a little
consolidation in the industry.
You're seeing some butterflyeffect to COVID.
People don't want to talk aboutCOVID anymore, but I mean the
reality is the decisions we madeand what happened in COVID to
our business, as I tell people,it took three years to screw it

(54:37):
up.
It's gonna take three years tofix it.
So 2026 will be those six yearswe buy.
And I think the people that havethe sight, the vision to
understand that in itself willget through this cycle, and
they'll be the ones that comeout strong, and they'll be the
ones that don't.
And that's just business cycles.

(54:58):
But I I think we're in a littleconsolidation, and then I think
we'll come through it.
But while that's going on, weneed to advance in the
technology.
We need to learn more about howtechnology can service us.
So that I don't know if that'swhat you're looking for, but
ultimately if you're in rentzone, you're listening to this,
you are in good shape.
All right, we're gonna we'regonna continue to be strong,

(55:19):
we're gonna serve our public,uh, we're gonna get our message
out, both at the state and thefederal levels.
You can be assured that ourindustry will continue.

SPEAKER_00 (55:30):
So hopefully being a part of April has been something
that I've always I've I'veappreciated from day one,
whether it be uh, you know, whenjust seeing what Charles is
doing or a lot of the members oryourself as the president, um,
it's been great.
I love the fact that Dan Fisheris taking that that role, not
because you're not in it, butbecause I just love Dan and
you've kind of served, like yousaid, you kind of served and

(55:52):
you're good and you're ready tostep back in the 100% of the uh
CEO of of Buddy's HomeFurnishings, real quick, some
real quick things I want to getfrom you.
What is, from your perspective,the best book that you've read
this year?

SPEAKER_01 (56:06):
My.
You know, I've it's actually abook that I've read um, you
know, previous, which is the21-year feed, the laws of
leadership.
I often go back, I don't readthe whole book again, but you
know, going back and readinglike the law of the lid, you
know, um, you gotta reachhigher.
You know, we we all think wehave a lid, but you know, the
minute that we think that we'regonna hit that and we can't get

(56:29):
beyond it, that's the problem.
You know, you gotta reachhigher.
If I ask you to reach right now,turn around that wall and reach
up as high as you can, I bet youyou give it your best.
But I'm gonna ask you to reachhigher, and I bet you're gonna
get up on your toes.
And I'm gonna ask you to reachhigher, and I bet you're gonna
find a chair to stand on.
And if I ask you to reachhigher, if you're the right
person, you'll go find a ladder.

(56:51):
You know, and you'll just keepon climbing.
It's it's you know, sobook-wise, I often go back to
what helped me at a certainpoint.
Failing forward is another greatbook that that I've I've read
because you know, when failurehits you, especially when you're
at this level, you don't have alot of people helping to mentor
you.

(57:12):
And so when you look at failingforward, it's all about
understanding that failure isokay.
And you may take two steps back,but let's take three steps
forward and make up one step.
I mean, let's figure out how toget there, and failure is a part
of life.
It's embrace it, don't blame andjustify, embrace your failures,

(57:34):
and you'll come out stronger.
You will.

SPEAKER_00 (57:37):
I agree.
Yeah.
Taking a step back, but in thesame direction, what is the best
book that you could recommend toanyone on your team this year?

SPEAKER_01 (57:46):
You know, I I know you don't want to hear this, but
I'm gonna say the same book.
And the reason I say that isthere is actually a um you can
buy we put uh when I was on theAaron's franchise, I put
everyone through this.
Every week we did a chapter, andyou did a chapter of the 21-year

(58:07):
feud of laws.
There's actually a workbook youcan buy with that.
We have not done that atBuddies, actually.
So if I were going to to do it,I I look back at the success,
and if there was anything, goshBennett, why didn't you actually
go back into the well and dothis?
So, Pete, you might find thatI'm gonna go do this now.

SPEAKER_00 (58:25):
And they're gonna say if anybody says anything,
you say, Listen, you call theRTO show and you let Pete know,
Phil, I'm sorry.
It's good, it's it's coming yourway.
So, you know, one of the uh twobooks that I'm reading, well, I
just read uh one book that I'mreading now is Never Lose an
Employee Again by Joey Coleman.
Um, that was suggested to me byChad Fosdick.
Um we were we were at a meetingvery recently and he he

(58:46):
suggested it.
That was a it was a good bookthat I'm reading now.
And I just read Ego is the Enemyby Ron Holliday, um something
that was suggested to me by WillJackson from R R Tire and
Express.
And I can tell you that one ofmy goals that I started earlier
this year was every time that Imeet somebody that we have great
conversation and there'ssomething to be talked about.
If they recommend a book, ifit's more than one, I'll pick

(59:08):
one, but I'm going to at leasttry to read a book that anyone
ever recommends to me because Ifeel like it's important to not
only take that advice, but seewhere they're coming from and
learn.
You know, we've all been here,we've all done that.
How can we learn from eachother?
Well, maybe I could read some ofthe things that you've read.
So I would love to read as muchas Mike Tissett, but I could

(59:28):
tell you right now, he's gotlike 10 books on there every
time he goes to the Leap programor he does something, so I've
got to pick one out of his many,many, many books that he has on
there.

SPEAKER_01 (59:38):
If you want books, I'll turn it around because I've
got them.
You've got them too, huh?
Yeah, I think I yeah, I've got,I mean, I'll give you some books
uh if you don't mind me turningaway.
No, go ahead.
Uh I love gapology.
Gapology.
Gapology.
Yeah, which is a book of youknow, where there where there's
problems, there's gaps, right?
And so how do you fill the gaps?

(59:59):
Another book.
Uh start with why.
You ever heard about that book?
Oh, I did read that.
Simon Cynic.
Yeah, exactly.
Absolutely great book.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:08):
Good one.
Let's see.
What else is you know, oneanother one book that he has is
the Leaders Eat Last.
I didn't really uh I that was arecommendation from uh Joe
Milligan.
I you know, I wasn't sure wherethat was going to be on my list.
I was looking at it.
I said, you know what, I'll juststop.
I already read one Simon Sinicbook.
I did enjoy it, and uh, Iactually really did enjoy that
book as well.

(01:00:28):
Yeah.
I'll tell you right now.
Listen, guys, if you guys wantmore book recommendations from
Mike Bennett, you let me knowand I'll we will reach out and
get you a library of things thathe wants you to read and look
out for.
Some of the great things thatuh, you know, I tell you the
takeaway from this, Mike, isthat regardless of where you
are, what you're doing, do thebest that you can at it and uh
make sure that you learn fromthe trials and tribulations as

(01:00:49):
much as you do your successes.
Never give up, keep on strivingforward.
And you know what?
You might just be able to oneday be somebody that says, Hey,
you're a legend, and I want toput you on my podcast, and we
can talk about what you've gonethrough and what you've done and
led to the career that you'vehad.
Mike Bennett on the show.
Finally, I appreciate it.

(01:01:09):
Tell Phil, I'm sorry that thingsare coming his way, but hey, we
all learned from what's goingon, and I hope that I help him
in some way.
Right.
If you guys have any questionsor anything that's going on with
the Legends series, please feelfree to reach out to the show at
Pete at the RTO ShowPodcast.com.
You can go online, you can buythe swag, find out what's going
on with the show at the rtoshowpodcast.com, and you can hit
us up on all the social mediaplatforms.

(01:01:31):
And I think that, you know, uhMike be in there as well.
We're we're everywhere.
Everybody tries to beeverywhere.
All the new RTO platforms thatwant to be everywhere.
Well, we are on Facebook,Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube
where you're gonna see this.
Mike Bennett, I appreciate youbeing here with me.
I appreciate you taking out thetime and explaining your story,
um, the places you've gone,done, the ups, the downs, uh,

(01:01:53):
the books, and uh the idea that,you know what, teamwork is 100%
the way to go.
Lead your team, you know, andand make sure that you get them
involved in your success.
So with that being said, isthere anything anything that you
want to end this on, any notethat you want to say, you know
what, from the Michael Bennett,this is what you should know.

(01:02:14):
People.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:14):
I mean, seriously.
Business is about people.
If there's anything I can giveyou, don't shy away from them.
Engage with them and find theright partnerships, and people
will take you places.
There you go.
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:27):
Thanks, Mike.
I really appreciate you being onthe show.
And I will tell you guys, asalways, get your collections low
to get your sales high.
Have a great one.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:35):
Thanks, Pete.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:37):
Hey everyone, it's Pete Chow here from the Arts Go
Show Podcast, and I want to tellyou about a company that's
making a real difference in therent-owned space.
WoWbrand.
I've seen the first hand howthey approach marketing.
Let me tell you, it's not justabout ads.
WoW Brands build completedigital ecosystems designed
specifically for the rent-owneddata.
Their e-commerce and generatedstrategies are built to bring

(01:02:59):
qualified data.
And I mentioned that they areactively working with the rent
on Facebook while also beingmembers of Facebook and
Scripture.
These folks are actuallyproperly stuck.
They don't just clap stufftogether.
They design builds and stillkind of skills.
Your customers actually want it.
So if you're at WellProwing,reach out to Wild Brands at

(01:03:21):
wildbrands.com.
I trust it, and I think you willdo.