March 13, 2025 • 28 mins
Join us as we sit down with Alex Sarian, bestselling author of The Audacity of Relevance and President and CEO of Calgary's Arts Commons. Sarian’s innovative approach to cultural leadership has not only transformed Calgary’s Arts Commons but also unlocked over $500 million in funding, reshaping cultural leadership across Canada. This marks the largest cultural infrastructure project in Canadian history.
In this episode, Sarian shares how he leads Arts Commons with a focus on community engagement and a service-oriented leadership model. Learn how his visionary approach has aligned Arts Commons’ success with Calgary’s civic ambitions, reducing government dependency through a social enterprise model.
Sarian also challenges conventional thinking on audience development, arguing that programming relevance must come before ticket price adjustments to truly build value. He reveals how arts organizations can achieve both relevance and financial sustainability by focusing on the needs of their communities.
Throughout the conversation, one key question emerges as central to Sarian’s success: “What does the world need right now that we are uniquely positioned to do?” Discover how this guiding principle has transformed fundraising, programming, and the cultural landscape at Arts Commons.
*Correction: Lizzie says in the video introduction that Sarian is a New York Times bestselling author — while we think he should be, he's a nationally bestselling author. So, here she is manifesting...so, go buy his book!
photo credit: Jeremy Fokkens
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Elizabeth Bowman (00:00):
Hi, I'm Elizabeth Bowman and welcome to
the Scene Room.
Today I have New York Timesbest-selling author, alex Sarian
here.
He wrote the Audacity ofRelevance.
He is also the president andCEO of Calgary's Arts Commons, a
position he took in May 2020after nearly two decades of
(00:21):
leadership roles in New YorkCity, most notably as the senior
executive at Lincoln Center forthe Performing Arts .
I was so excited to talk toAlex about all the things.
If you are enjoying the SceneRoom podcast, please like, share
, comment, review, do all thefree things you can do to show
(00:44):
your support.
It helps keep this conversationgoing.
You can visit thesceneroomcomfor any and all episodes and
more information.
Thanks for your support.
Thanks for listening.
Now let's get to theconversation.
Alex, welcome to the Scene Room.
Thanks for coming.
Alex Sarian (01:03):
Thanks for having me, lizzie, it's exciting.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:05):
I will disclose that reading your book
the Audacity of Relevanceactually was the catalyst to me
starting this podcast in thefirst place.
Alex Sarian (01:15):
I want to hear more about that.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:16):
No, I just.
I read your book.
I was so inspired, and then Ihad been thinking about starting
this podcast already and then Ithought, oh my goodness, I
should do this.
And then I thought I'm going towrite to Alex Sarian and see if
he'll be on my podcast.
And you wrote back right away.
Of course I'll say this oh mygoodness, I got to start the
(01:40):
podcast now.
Alex Sarian (01:42):
Now it's real Well, congratulations.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:44):
Thank you.
So what inspired you?
To write that book.
Alex Sarian (01:48):
Oh, my goodness.
Well, first I should be veryclear I never thought I'd be a
writer.
I don't even read for pleasure,if that makes any sense, which
feels weird, admitting out loud.
But there are two factors thatreally pushed me to do it.
The first one was, you know, Ijust moved to Calgary from New
York City.
We were advancing this reallyexciting project, the Arts
(02:09):
Commons Transformation, which isbuilding, you know, almost a
million square feet of thiscultural campus in downtown
Calgary, the largest culturalinfrastructure project in
Canadian history.
And it was important for me, aswe were advancing the work and
advancing the design, I wantedpeople to know that this was
more than just a shiny newbuilding, that it was a new way
(02:30):
of thinking about the arts, itwas a new value proposition for
cultural organizations.
And that was the driving factorbehind a lot of our success,
which people were payingattention to, because, you know,
we were breaking so manyrecords in terms of fundraising,
in terms of the size and scopeof this project, and I wanted
people to understand why thiswas happening.
Because it is replicable.
(02:50):
The idea of experiencing thiskind of success is replicable
when you're talking about morethan just the design.
So that's one element, theother element, as I'm sure
you've seen and noticed, andthis was happening around the
world with the pandemic and therestrictions that were being
introduced, our sector wasreally being turned upside down
and there was something verynoticeable for me about
(03:13):
organizations and leaders thatwould just sit back and say
we're going to wait for thisthing to be over, we're going to
write it out, and thatinstilled in me such a
frustration.
You know we were working ourbutts off in Calgary at Arts
Commons, trying to figure outhow are we going to come out of
this, looking completelydifferent and having used this
time to transform.
(03:33):
And really the catalyst wasthere was an article in the
Globe and Mail by Josh O'Kane,who I love, and he wrote this
really fascinating article Iwant to say it was last summer
or now two summers ago where hewas listing every reason why it
was becoming harder to run acultural institution and he
listed things that seem obviousto us inflation, escalation,
evolving consumer behaviors, theevolution of philanthropy but
(03:57):
nowhere on that list was thereever any accountability to the
leaders that were meant to berunning the sector and saying
well, maybe the reason it'sgetting harder to run an arts
organization is because we don'tknow how to lead the sector
anymore.
And there was something sobeautiful about what was
happening in Calgary at ArtsCommons as we were redefining
our value proposition, and Iwanted to share that story
(04:19):
because it's a paradigm shiftfrom arts leaders feeling like
they need to have all theanswers to arts leaders instead
figuring out what questions toask and building community in
the answering of those questions.
So it doesn't require us to besmarter than we were five years
ago.
It requires us to be humblerthan we were five years ago and
I really wanted to share thatbecause we were experiencing
(04:42):
such an incredible moment ofcommunity building and civic
dialogue, particularly in timesof crisis, that I really wanted
to share that.
So those are the two bigcatalysts and I'm grateful that,
as I hear feedback, that's whatpeople are really taking away
from it.
Elizabeth Bowman (04:57):
Yeah, in the book you talk a lot about the
importance of connecting withthe community, really figuring
out where you stand, what yourrole is within your specific
community, and you talk aboutmoving to Calgary and learning
about the environment there.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that, because I really
loved what you had to say inthere?
Alex Sarian (05:15):
Yeah, I mean one of the most humbling experiences
for me.
So when I was in New York City,I worked at Lincoln Center for
seven years and one of thethings within my portfolio was
international consulting.
And you know, I don't knowabout you, but, like when you
live and work in New York,you're trained to think that
this is the center of theuniverse, right?
And it was very humbling to begoing around the world and
(05:36):
realizing, oh, what worked inNew York City isn't necessarily
going to work in Shanghai, orwhat worked in Shanghai isn't
necessarily going to work inMexico City.
So that experience trained meto think about the idea of
relevance as a topic that ishyperlocal and that nobody's
entitled to knowing the answer,especially somebody from the
outside.
And so if we can figure outwhat questions need to be asked,
(05:58):
then I think this idea ofrelevance is achieved, as I said
earlier in answering thequestion.
So it was interesting receivingthis phone call about this
position in Calgary.
I had never been to Calgary, Ihad never heard of Arts Commons
before, which is embarrassing toadmit, but we fell in love with
all of the opportunities thatCalgary presented and I think
what's more important is thereason we're experiencing
(06:19):
success at Arts Commons has verylittle to do with me and
everything to do with thecommunity that is around it and
that is excited about seeing itgrow.
And so to me, that was thegreatest gift and Calgary
continues giving us this gift isthis idea that if you come in
with really bold questions, thenpeople will really galvanize in
coming together around them.
(06:40):
And you know proof of concept.
We broke ground on the projectin December, so it's happening.
There's something very, verybeautiful about the
possibilities in Calgary.
There's also something reallyambitious about this sort of
underdog mentality where youknow, when I say to people, oh,
this is going to be the largestperforming arts campus in Canada
, their chests sort of puff up.
When I say that we've achievedthe largest philanthropic gift
(07:03):
to the performing arts inCanadian history, they get super
proud, and so there's somethingvery beautiful about watching
that happen in real time.
Elizabeth Bowman (07:09):
Can you talk about achieving those gifts,
because you got the $103 millionand then, following that, you
got the $75 million donationfrom Dave Workland.
Alex Sarian (07:21):
So the first thing was arriving at a value
proposition that aligned thesuccess of this organization to
Calgary's success, and I thinkyou know you mentioned the
provincial investment, youmentioned that Workland's
investment, but I think one ofthe greatest gifts that was
given to us was the idea thatthis project, at the city level,
municipally, was sointerconnected with the future
(07:45):
vibrancy of our downtown core.
You know, when the pandemic hit, this was one of a handful of
projects that city governmentoutlined as core to the downtown
revitalization of Calgary and,in fact, one of the most
beautiful things.
In April of 2021, there was acity council meeting where the
city of Calgary announced aninitial investment into the
(08:05):
downtown revitalization ofCalgary.
It was a $200 million package.
It included amazing things likeoffice-to-residential
conversion, which people aroundthe world have been talking
about in Calgary, but whatpeople don't know is that the
single largest line item of that$200 million package was for
cultural infrastructure, was forArts Commons, and that was the
city's way of shouting from therooftops.
(08:25):
Arts and culture are importantto the future of our downtown
and if our downtown isn'thealthy, then our city isn't
healthy.
So that was a beautiful way forus to align civically to our
community, and then we were ableto flex those muscles when
going to the province.
And you know, right now inAlberta there is a conservative
government, and the assumptionis and I think it's a wrong
(08:48):
assumption that the conservativegovernment rarely invests in
arts and culture.
They do, you know, I was alobbyist in New York in the US,
and one of the things we knewwas that the arts community tend
to do a lot better underconservative governments than
under progressive governments,and so it was just a matter of
us being able to speak theirlanguage, aligning ourselves to
their metrics, and so we wereable to do a lot of work around
(09:12):
studying, you know, the impactof social enterprise on our
business model.
We were able to determine thatour campus, once completed,
would actually be less dependenton government funds than it is
now A decrease of 26% year overyear of dependency on government
funds because we were embracingthis social enterprise model,
which I think is fascinating foreverybody in Canada to pay
(09:34):
attention to, because this ideaof sustainability as a business
model in the arts is somethingthat people are really trying to
understand.
So we were able to speak thelanguage of the province of
Alberta and prove to them thatthey're not going to have to
feed the beast that they'rebuilding for the next 50 years,
which, of course, is anygovernment's concern.
You know that was a hugesurprise when we received $103
million from the province andthen, on the heels of that, we
(09:56):
announced the single largestphilanthropic gift to the
performing arts $75 million fromDave Workland.
And that was really.
You know, dave is such anincredible human being.
It took two years I wouldn'teven say two years to land that
gift, because it wasn't aboutlanding the gift, it was two
years of getting to know him andbeing challenged by him and
rising to the occasion.
One of the things I love aboutDave is that there's no history
(10:18):
of giving to the arts.
You know, his background inphilanthropy is in education, in
social service, and so we wereable to tell a different story
around arts and culture thataligned with his values.
So when people say to him now,dave, why would you give to arts
and culture when historicallyyou only gave to education or
social services?
His answer, which I foundbeautiful, is well, because Arts
Commons, soon to be WorklandCenter, is putting the arts in
(10:40):
service to those larger issues.
And so I think it's because ofthat value proposition and being
in service to others and acertain level of humility and
defining our success by thesuccessive communities around us
, that we were able to landincredible gifts and funding
municipally, provincially andprivately, and now we're just
working on the federal level.
Elizabeth Bowman (10:59):
It's interesting that the narrative
of the economic investment inthe arts hasn't been more
resonant with the governments,because, I mean, I've read
several documents over the last15 years and it seems like, for
instance, there's the LincolnCenter document that talks about
(11:19):
the value of Lincoln Center forthe overall tourism community
and the economic impact documentI'm not sure what it's called,
I'll look it up and then post itbut it says something
ridiculous, like for everydollar spent, $17 is put back
into the community surroundingthat organization.
Alex Sarian (11:40):
Yeah, Dinner, parking, daycare, you know like
it's.
The economic impact is huge.
Elizabeth Bowman (11:45):
The economic impact is huge, yeah, and also
the education.
It goes just beyond what youcould even put into a document
that you can't calculate.
Alex Sarian (11:56):
Oh, the social impact.
But here's what I findfascinating is we have all these
stories to tell as a sector andfor some reason we don't tell
them, and it's not only hurtingus philosophically but it's also
hurting us economically.
Pick a type of revenue earnedrevenue, contributed revenue.
If we are not in service to thecommunities around us, if we
don't lean into this idea ofrelevance from a place of
(12:17):
service and humility, so like,if people don't care what we
have to offer, then they're notgoing to come buy tickets.
So earned revenue is going togo down, and we all know that
impact is the currency ofphilanthropy and if we don't
have those stories to tell, thenphilanthropy is not going to
follow, you know.
And then government.
This is what I find fascinating.
You know, the nonprofit sectorcontinues to grow at a crazy
rate and the government supportsystems that are in place to
(12:39):
support the nonprofit sector,whether it's healthcare, whether
it's social services, whetherit's arts and culture they're
not keeping up.
You know, one of the chaptersin my book is around advocacy,
and I claim that we wereadvocating for the wrong thing,
because non-profit organizations, arts or non-arts, are entering
(13:00):
the market at a faster ratethan they're leaving them.
So the pie is literally gettingsmaller.
Government has said this isgoing to change and yet for some
reason we continue fightingthat fight and in a way that is
not pretty anymore, it's notinspiring anymore.
You know, in the chapter onphilanthropy I start by saying
you know, there's philanthropythat begs and philanthropy that
inspires.
I think we have gotten to aplace where we are living in
this world around, philanthropythat begs and it may work once,
(13:23):
it may work twice, but if we'renot inspiring people, if we're
not leading the change, thenthat support will be very
short-lived and ultimatelydetrimental to the health of our
business.
Elizabeth Bowman (13:33):
Yeah, no one wants to invest in something
unless they understand theimpact of what they're giving
for.
Alex Sarian (13:39):
Yeah, they don't want to bail people out, they
want to invest in the future.
Elizabeth Bowman (13:42):
So, in terms of Calgary and Arts Commons, you
said you didn't know about ArtsCommons before being offered
the position.
How do you change thatinternational recognition while
serving the local community atthe same time?
Alex Sarian (13:57):
So one of the things that I realized very
quickly during the interviewprocess is that Arts Commons was
actually modeled after LincolnCenter from a governance
perspective, and so, all of asudden, the story of Arts
Commons that I feel had beenmisunderstood for so long,
became very clear for me interms of its familiarity and so
a lot of the work we've beentrying to do over the past four
years in terms of articulatingour social impact, our economic
(14:20):
impact, even this idea ofcollective impact as it relates
to the resident companies thatare housed within us incredible
organizations like the CalgaryPhil and Theatre, calgary and
Alberta Theatre Projects andDownstage and the Rat Like it.
Just there's so many amazingstories to tell and I don't
think that we had figured outhow to tell that story.
Now, this idea of local andglobal reputation I find very,
(14:43):
very interesting, becausethere's a phrase that I actually
hate, but I'm going to say itanyways, which is glocal, and it
leans into this tension betweenneeding local approval but
seeking global reputations, andthere's usually this tension,
and what I've come to learn overthe past 10, 15 years is that
organizations that prioritize aglobal reputation first will
(15:05):
ultimately fail.
I think the opposite isactually quite impressive.
When you can build aninternational reputation based
on your local impact, and sothat's something that we've been
leaning into quite a bit.
I mean, obviously, this projectthe Arts Commons Transformation
has an international rippleeffect.
We have internationalarchitects, but we also have
(15:25):
local architects, we haveindigenous architects, we have
female architects, so we'retelling a local story on a
global platform.
This idea of breaking recordsin terms of fundraising and
investment yes, it's reachingears around the world, but it's
ultimately elevating the profileof Calgary.
So one of the things I loveabout this is that, yes, we are
(15:45):
an internationally renownedorganization, and we will become
even more so when we have thisbeautiful campus, but what I
love about it is that we're notdoing it at the expense of being
a Calgary-based organization.
We're doing it because of it,and that's what I find beautiful
and what I tell people all thetime.
If you want people from aroundthe world to know you, then
people in your backyard need tocare first.
Elizabeth Bowman (16:05):
That makes sense from a human perspective.
Ultimately, too, as anindividual, you have to know
what drives you every day andwho you are, and that will
resonate through your work aswell.
Okay, so you talk about theticket pricing.
I just want to get into that alittle bit, because obviously
that's a hot topic right now,with Opera Philadelphia doing
(16:26):
the $11 ticket experiment.
Obviously, they've offset thatwith a donation to cover their
bottom line there.
But you talk about the loweringticket price strategy in the
arts as a potentially harmfulthing in terms of attracting
audiences.
Can you comment on that alittle bit?
Alex Sarian (16:46):
So to me, the big question is when I see these
programs taking place, my firstquestion is why are you doing it
?
Because and listen, I'm goingto preface this by saying that
lowering the financial barrieris incredibly important.
I am not somebody that isadvocating that we should be
passing on the increasing costof producing or presenting arts
to the patrons, particularlywhen those patrons are community
members, and there are economicinjustices in every city that
(17:06):
you can go visit.
My big issue with loweringticket prices to the patrons
particularly when those patronsare community members and there
are economic injustices in everycity that you can go visit my
big issue with lowering ticketprices is that we seem to be
very quick to blame others forour inability to program things
that people value.
So I'll give you an example,and I'm not going to name names,
but there are plenty oforganizations that you and I
know of that program, a seasonor program, a show, and that
(17:28):
show doesn't seem to beresonating with their audiences,
does not seem to be resonatingwith their communities, and the
first instinct is to say, surelyit must be too expensive,
instead of saying maybe wedidn't program the right thing,
and so then what happens is bynot taking accountability for
the fact that we may have notdone the right thing which, by
the way, is okay.
Like before, I was at LincolnCenter, I worked Off-Broadway.
(17:49):
The whole purpose ofOff-Broadway is to throw
spaghetti against the wall andexperiment.
So I'm okay withexperimentation.
I actually think we need to bedoing more of it.
However, when we do things thatare not successful and we don't
hold ourselves accountable tothat and instead we say, oh,
let's lower the ticket prices, Ithink we're shooting ourselves
in the foot twice the first timebecause we're not presenting
things that value and learningfrom that, and the second
(18:11):
because now we're offering it ata discount.
So I encourage people that arequick to talk about the
financial barrier to trulyunderstand why it is that
they're doing it.
You know, I always talk aboutthe case of Hamilton on Broadway
in New York.
Hamilton, first and foremost,established its value to the
consumer.
You know, before they startedtalking about ticket discounts,
they knew that they had thehottest show in Broadway history
(18:34):
, as could be explained by theirridiculous ticket prices.
But because of that, afoundation came in and said
we're going to pay so that everyNew York City public school
middle schooler can attendHamilton as part of their social
studies curriculum.
So that, to me, is a perfectexample of putting something out
into the world which has valueand then saying okay, because it
(18:54):
has value and because it hasbecome so competitive, we are
going to jump in there and lowerthe financial barrier for
people that actually want to seethis but may not be able to, as
opposed to having a mediocreshow that's not going to sell.
I think it's a slippery slopeof an argument because, at the
end of the day, not only are younot taking accountability for
your own choices, you'reactually putting the blame on
community.
(19:15):
And then I have a lot of issueswith well-intentioned
organizations going intocommunities of color
predominantly and saying oh,we're going to lower the ticket
price because our assumption isthat, because you are a
community of color, you don'thave disposable income.
That is a very dangerousassumption and generalization to
be making.
Elizabeth Bowman (19:32):
Right.
Also, if larger organizationsare cutting their ticket prices
to such a huge degree, then thesmaller companies are going to
have a really tough timecompeting with those bigger
companies, even if they have agood product, because
automatically those biggercompanies have brand loyalty
(19:52):
established and so that justbusies up everyone's calendars.
Alex Sarian (19:56):
So there's an example that happened here at
Theatre Calgary.
As pandemic restrictions wereeasing, they came up with this
$39 ticket program.
It wasn't just a flat programthat said, okay, $39 tickets in
perpetuity.
They had this fascinating andreally smart model where they
said this is an exercise inrebuilding our audiences
post-pandemic and getting themback up to a full-going theater
(20:17):
experience.
So their plan started at $39tickets in orchestra only.
So there were people that werestill paying $50, $60, $70, but
for less desirable seats, andtheir plan was to always, over
the course of three years,slowly take those training
wheels off so that by year fouryou had a full-grown community
of theatergoers that were backat paying more competitive
(20:40):
prices.
And I find that fascinating,because Theater Calgary took
accountability and said we havethree years not only to lower
ticket prices but to present thehighest quality of theater that
we can, because by year fourit's no longer about acquiring
new audience members, it's aboutretaining them.
And if we've invested $10, $15million over the course of three
years to subsidize ticketprices and we don't have
(21:02):
audience retention, then we willhave failed.
So there's an incrediblestrategy there around lowering
ticket prices, not because oftheater being undesirable, but
in parallel to that they werepunching above their weight in
the shows.
They were picking theproduction levels.
So that was a really smart,strategic, intentional way of
lowering the financial barrierto get people to fall in love,
(21:25):
because, at the end of the day,what we do know everybody, is
that people will pay for thingsthat they value.
So let's get them to value itfirst.
Elizabeth Bowman (21:32):
Can I hear about what you would hope would
be taught in these artsmanagement programs or arts
administration programs rightnow?
Alex Sarian (21:42):
A sense of service, a sense of understanding that
you know these programs aregoing to create leaders that are
going to go into every cornerof the world, and I wish they
taught us that success isdefined locally and it doesn't
matter how smart you are, itdoesn't matter what strategies
you think you may have access to.
It's ultimately about are youdoing good for the community?
(22:04):
And it's funny because 20 yearsago that was a nice to have,
right.
20 years ago you had peoplethinking this way, but that was
not the norm and, by and large,people that thought being an
arts leader meant that you gotto walk into rooms and be the
smartest person in the room andhave all the answers.
They could get away with it 20years ago.
What I appreciate about thismoment in time is that the
(22:24):
fragility of our sector is sohigh, sadly, that we can't
afford to do that anymore, andso what used to be a nice to
have 15, 20 years ago is now oneof the highest competitive
skills I think we could beteaching people is how do you
develop a value proposition thatis in service to the
communities that surround you?
How does that value propositionthen inform your programming?
(22:47):
How does that programminginform your ticketing?
How does that philosophy theninform your fundraising?
And what I hope my book conveysto people is that it's no
longer the right thing to doanymore.
It's the only way to do it now,and not only is it a nice to
have, if we do it right, it canactually have this domino effect
throughout every corner of ourinstitution.
Where our fundraising is moresuccessful, our employees are
(23:10):
more fulfilled.
I find that it's such a smallshift to make, with such
incredible rewards to be hadsocially, financially,
artistically and I still don'tknow why most people can't do it
.
Elizabeth Bowman (23:22):
This community-first approach reminds
me very much of the lateRichard Bradshaw, who got the
Four Seasons Center built inToronto.
He was a mentor of my husband's, who is a violinist, not an
arts administrator, but Iactually ended up working at the
Canadian Opera Company shortlyafter he passed away.
(23:43):
So I didn't ever connect withhim, but followed along with the
building of the house and knowthat he spent many, many hours
connecting personally withvarious levels of government and
people and individualphilanthropists and really
connected on a person-to-personlevel.
(24:04):
So this really brings me backto hearing about him and also
seeing what you're doing inCalgary.
There's definitely a similarityin the approach.
Alex Sarian (24:14):
That's a beautiful thank you, for I'm very humbled
that this conversation led youto think about him.
But there's also a phrase,there's a question that I ask
all the time, and this questioncan be asked anywhere in the
world, can be asked by anybody,no matter the organization or
their place in it.
The question that I always askis what does the world need
right now that we are uniquelypositioned to do?
And the reason I love thatquestion is because it forces us
(24:36):
to reconcile what the worldneeds with what our mission
empowers us to do right.
So if we only ask the questionwhat does the world need right
now, I think we'd be faced witha slippery slope of mission
drift, and there are lots oforganizations that either chase
the money or chase the need, andbefore you know it, they're
completely unrecognizable.
But if you ask the questionwhat does the world need right
now that we are uniquelypositioned to do, it forces us
(24:58):
to really look at our missionstatement as being in service to
others and maybe, if we'redoing it right, it might
actually force us to stretch ourmission statement a little bit.
And I think that question youknow, I pose that question to
every department at Arts Commonsand they each come up with a
different answer, but ultimatelyit drives the organization in a
common direction and that's.
You know, that question getsphilanthropists excited, that
(25:19):
question gets government excited, that question gives our
patrons that have a sense ofagency.
It gets them excited and itgets our staff excited because
they feel like they're cominginto work and truly making a
difference.
And again, this is not new.
There are sister sectors to usthat have been doing this for so
long Postsecondary healthcare,this idea of cause-based
(25:39):
philanthropy or impact-driveninvestments it's not new in the
world.
And yet, for some reason, thearts sector has been very either
shy or stubborn, I don't knowwhich yet, but we have not been
keeping up, and that's on us.
Elizabeth Bowman (25:52):
Can I ask how you got into arts management to
begin with?
Alex Sarian (25:56):
Yeah, it was not a straight line.
I loved performing as a kid Iperformed theater and music and
then I moved to New York,because you're taught to move to
New York if that's what youwant to pursue.
And when I was in New York Ifell in love with teaching and
for a hot second I almost becamea first grade teacher, which I
was told I would have been verygood at and it was being in a
room with first graders thattaught me about relevance in
(26:18):
practice, because the firstthing they teach you in
education is if your studentisn't learning, it's not their
fault, it's yours.
And what a powerful message tojust carry through life.
So my undergrad was ineducation.
But because I was aninternational student living in
New York at the time and the NewYork City Department of
Education had a hiring freeze, Iremember getting a letter from
NYU saying you know you need tofind a job that will sponsor
(26:40):
your work visa or you need toget ready to leave the country,
and I had moved there fromArgentina.
So the thought of going back toArgentina was terrifying and I
had an advisor that said to melisten, you can still do arts
education, but through the lensof arts management and instead
of your career path being a fulltime classroom teacher, why
don't you start going on thisdirector of education path?
(27:02):
Because most arts organizations, certainly in the US and in
North America, have thisdirector of education path.
So I did that.
I enrolled in a master's ofperforming arts administration
and my career path was to be adirector of education, which I
was for several years, and oneof my mentors and I always
teased and we always asked thisvery provocative question which
(27:22):
was what would happen to the DNAof an arts organization if the
person occupying the CEO'soffice had a background in
education?
This was maybe 10, 12 years ago.
There weren't a lot of thosepeople filling those offices,
and so it was a very provocativequestion because we were able
to daydream about oh, it wouldbe a much more civically-minded
institution, it would be acommunity-based organization,
(27:45):
and not at the expense ofartistic excellence, but because
of it.
And so in many ways I see myrole now as being sort of a
proof of concept to thatprovocation.
So that's my windy answer toyour beautiful question.
Elizabeth Bowman (27:59):
Thanks for being on the podcast today.
It's been really, really lovelyto talk to you.
Alex Sarian (28:03):
Thank you for having me.
It's really a pleasure.
Hi, I'm Elizabeth Bowman and welcome to
the Scene Room.
Today I have New York Timesbest-selling author, alex Sarian
here.
He wrote the Audacity ofRelevance.
He is also the president andCEO of Calgary's Arts Commons, a
position he took in May 2020after nearly two decades of
(00:21):
leadership roles in New YorkCity, most notably as the senior
executive at Lincoln Center forthe Performing Arts .
I was so excited to talk toAlex about all the things.
If you are enjoying the SceneRoom podcast, please like, share
, comment, review, do all thefree things you can do to show
(00:44):
your support.
It helps keep this conversationgoing.
You can visit thesceneroomcomfor any and all episodes and
more information.
Thanks for your support.
Thanks for listening.
Now let's get to theconversation.
Alex, welcome to the Scene Room.
Thanks for coming.
Alex Sarian (01:03):
Thanks for having me, lizzie, it's exciting.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:05):
I will disclose that reading your book
the Audacity of Relevanceactually was the catalyst to me
starting this podcast in thefirst place.
Alex Sarian (01:15):
I want to hear more about that.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:16):
No, I just.
I read your book.
I was so inspired, and then Ihad been thinking about starting
this podcast already and then Ithought, oh my goodness, I
should do this.
And then I thought I'm going towrite to Alex Sarian and see if
he'll be on my podcast.
And you wrote back right away.
Of course I'll say this oh mygoodness, I got to start the
(01:40):
podcast now.
Alex Sarian (01:42):
Now it's real Well, congratulations.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:44):
Thank you.
So what inspired you?
To write that book.
Alex Sarian (01:48):
Oh, my goodness.
Well, first I should be veryclear I never thought I'd be a
writer.
I don't even read for pleasure,if that makes any sense, which
feels weird, admitting out loud.
But there are two factors thatreally pushed me to do it.
The first one was, you know, Ijust moved to Calgary from New
York City.
We were advancing this reallyexciting project, the Arts
(02:09):
Commons Transformation, which isbuilding, you know, almost a
million square feet of thiscultural campus in downtown
Calgary, the largest culturalinfrastructure project in
Canadian history.
And it was important for me, aswe were advancing the work and
advancing the design, I wantedpeople to know that this was
more than just a shiny newbuilding, that it was a new way
(02:30):
of thinking about the arts, itwas a new value proposition for
cultural organizations.
And that was the driving factorbehind a lot of our success,
which people were payingattention to, because, you know,
we were breaking so manyrecords in terms of fundraising,
in terms of the size and scopeof this project, and I wanted
people to understand why thiswas happening.
Because it is replicable.
(02:50):
The idea of experiencing thiskind of success is replicable
when you're talking about morethan just the design.
So that's one element, theother element, as I'm sure
you've seen and noticed, andthis was happening around the
world with the pandemic and therestrictions that were being
introduced, our sector wasreally being turned upside down
and there was something verynoticeable for me about
(03:13):
organizations and leaders thatwould just sit back and say
we're going to wait for thisthing to be over, we're going to
write it out, and thatinstilled in me such a
frustration.
You know we were working ourbutts off in Calgary at Arts
Commons, trying to figure outhow are we going to come out of
this, looking completelydifferent and having used this
time to transform.
(03:33):
And really the catalyst wasthere was an article in the
Globe and Mail by Josh O'Kane,who I love, and he wrote this
really fascinating article Iwant to say it was last summer
or now two summers ago where hewas listing every reason why it
was becoming harder to run acultural institution and he
listed things that seem obviousto us inflation, escalation,
evolving consumer behaviors, theevolution of philanthropy but
(03:57):
nowhere on that list was thereever any accountability to the
leaders that were meant to berunning the sector and saying
well, maybe the reason it'sgetting harder to run an arts
organization is because we don'tknow how to lead the sector
anymore.
And there was something sobeautiful about what was
happening in Calgary at ArtsCommons as we were redefining
our value proposition, and Iwanted to share that story
(04:19):
because it's a paradigm shiftfrom arts leaders feeling like
they need to have all theanswers to arts leaders instead
figuring out what questions toask and building community in
the answering of those questions.
So it doesn't require us to besmarter than we were five years
ago.
It requires us to be humblerthan we were five years ago and
I really wanted to share thatbecause we were experiencing
(04:42):
such an incredible moment ofcommunity building and civic
dialogue, particularly in timesof crisis, that I really wanted
to share that.
So those are the two bigcatalysts and I'm grateful that,
as I hear feedback, that's whatpeople are really taking away
from it.
Elizabeth Bowman (04:57):
Yeah, in the book you talk a lot about the
importance of connecting withthe community, really figuring
out where you stand, what yourrole is within your specific
community, and you talk aboutmoving to Calgary and learning
about the environment there.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that, because I really
loved what you had to say inthere?
Alex Sarian (05:15):
Yeah, I mean one of the most humbling experiences
for me.
So when I was in New York City,I worked at Lincoln Center for
seven years and one of thethings within my portfolio was
international consulting.
And you know, I don't knowabout you, but, like when you
live and work in New York,you're trained to think that
this is the center of theuniverse, right?
And it was very humbling to begoing around the world and
(05:36):
realizing, oh, what worked inNew York City isn't necessarily
going to work in Shanghai, orwhat worked in Shanghai isn't
necessarily going to work inMexico City.
So that experience trained meto think about the idea of
relevance as a topic that ishyperlocal and that nobody's
entitled to knowing the answer,especially somebody from the
outside.
And so if we can figure outwhat questions need to be asked,
(05:58):
then I think this idea ofrelevance is achieved, as I said
earlier in answering thequestion.
So it was interesting receivingthis phone call about this
position in Calgary.
I had never been to Calgary, Ihad never heard of Arts Commons
before, which is embarrassing toadmit, but we fell in love with
all of the opportunities thatCalgary presented and I think
what's more important is thereason we're experiencing
(06:19):
success at Arts Commons has verylittle to do with me and
everything to do with thecommunity that is around it and
that is excited about seeing itgrow.
And so to me, that was thegreatest gift and Calgary
continues giving us this gift isthis idea that if you come in
with really bold questions, thenpeople will really galvanize in
coming together around them.
(06:40):
And you know proof of concept.
We broke ground on the projectin December, so it's happening.
There's something very, verybeautiful about the
possibilities in Calgary.
There's also something reallyambitious about this sort of
underdog mentality where youknow, when I say to people, oh,
this is going to be the largestperforming arts campus in Canada
, their chests sort of puff up.
When I say that we've achievedthe largest philanthropic gift
(07:03):
to the performing arts inCanadian history, they get super
proud, and so there's somethingvery beautiful about watching
that happen in real time.
Elizabeth Bowman (07:09):
Can you talk about achieving those gifts,
because you got the $103 millionand then, following that, you
got the $75 million donationfrom Dave Workland.
Alex Sarian (07:21):
So the first thing was arriving at a value
proposition that aligned thesuccess of this organization to
Calgary's success, and I thinkyou know you mentioned the
provincial investment, youmentioned that Workland's
investment, but I think one ofthe greatest gifts that was
given to us was the idea thatthis project, at the city level,
municipally, was sointerconnected with the future
(07:45):
vibrancy of our downtown core.
You know, when the pandemic hit, this was one of a handful of
projects that city governmentoutlined as core to the downtown
revitalization of Calgary and,in fact, one of the most
beautiful things.
In April of 2021, there was acity council meeting where the
city of Calgary announced aninitial investment into the
(08:05):
downtown revitalization ofCalgary.
It was a $200 million package.
It included amazing things likeoffice-to-residential
conversion, which people aroundthe world have been talking
about in Calgary, but whatpeople don't know is that the
single largest line item of that$200 million package was for
cultural infrastructure, was forArts Commons, and that was the
city's way of shouting from therooftops.
(08:25):
Arts and culture are importantto the future of our downtown
and if our downtown isn'thealthy, then our city isn't
healthy.
So that was a beautiful way forus to align civically to our
community, and then we were ableto flex those muscles when
going to the province.
And you know, right now inAlberta there is a conservative
government, and the assumptionis and I think it's a wrong
(08:48):
assumption that the conservativegovernment rarely invests in
arts and culture.
They do, you know, I was alobbyist in New York in the US,
and one of the things we knewwas that the arts community tend
to do a lot better underconservative governments than
under progressive governments,and so it was just a matter of
us being able to speak theirlanguage, aligning ourselves to
their metrics, and so we wereable to do a lot of work around
(09:12):
studying, you know, the impactof social enterprise on our
business model.
We were able to determine thatour campus, once completed,
would actually be less dependenton government funds than it is
now A decrease of 26% year overyear of dependency on government
funds because we were embracingthis social enterprise model,
which I think is fascinating foreverybody in Canada to pay
(09:34):
attention to, because this ideaof sustainability as a business
model in the arts is somethingthat people are really trying to
understand.
So we were able to speak thelanguage of the province of
Alberta and prove to them thatthey're not going to have to
feed the beast that they'rebuilding for the next 50 years,
which, of course, is anygovernment's concern.
You know that was a hugesurprise when we received $103
million from the province andthen, on the heels of that, we
(09:56):
announced the single largestphilanthropic gift to the
performing arts $75 million fromDave Workland.
And that was really.
You know, dave is such anincredible human being.
It took two years I wouldn'teven say two years to land that
gift, because it wasn't aboutlanding the gift, it was two
years of getting to know him andbeing challenged by him and
rising to the occasion.
One of the things I love aboutDave is that there's no history
(10:18):
of giving to the arts.
You know, his background inphilanthropy is in education, in
social service, and so we wereable to tell a different story
around arts and culture thataligned with his values.
So when people say to him now,dave, why would you give to arts
and culture when historicallyyou only gave to education or
social services?
His answer, which I foundbeautiful, is well, because Arts
Commons, soon to be WorklandCenter, is putting the arts in
(10:40):
service to those larger issues.
And so I think it's because ofthat value proposition and being
in service to others and acertain level of humility and
defining our success by thesuccessive communities around us
, that we were able to landincredible gifts and funding
municipally, provincially andprivately, and now we're just
working on the federal level.
Elizabeth Bowman (10:59):
It's interesting that the narrative
of the economic investment inthe arts hasn't been more
resonant with the governments,because, I mean, I've read
several documents over the last15 years and it seems like, for
instance, there's the LincolnCenter document that talks about
(11:19):
the value of Lincoln Center forthe overall tourism community
and the economic impact documentI'm not sure what it's called,
I'll look it up and then post itbut it says something
ridiculous, like for everydollar spent, $17 is put back
into the community surroundingthat organization.
Alex Sarian (11:40):
Yeah, Dinner, parking, daycare, you know like
it's.
The economic impact is huge.
Elizabeth Bowman (11:45):
The economic impact is huge, yeah, and also
the education.
It goes just beyond what youcould even put into a document
that you can't calculate.
Alex Sarian (11:56):
Oh, the social impact.
But here's what I findfascinating is we have all these
stories to tell as a sector andfor some reason we don't tell
them, and it's not only hurtingus philosophically but it's also
hurting us economically.
Pick a type of revenue earnedrevenue, contributed revenue.
If we are not in service to thecommunities around us, if we
don't lean into this idea ofrelevance from a place of
(12:17):
service and humility, so like,if people don't care what we
have to offer, then they're notgoing to come buy tickets.
So earned revenue is going togo down, and we all know that
impact is the currency ofphilanthropy and if we don't
have those stories to tell, thenphilanthropy is not going to
follow, you know.
And then government.
This is what I find fascinating.
You know, the nonprofit sectorcontinues to grow at a crazy
rate and the government supportsystems that are in place to
(12:39):
support the nonprofit sector,whether it's healthcare, whether
it's social services, whetherit's arts and culture they're
not keeping up.
You know, one of the chaptersin my book is around advocacy,
and I claim that we wereadvocating for the wrong thing,
because non-profit organizations, arts or non-arts, are entering
(13:00):
the market at a faster ratethan they're leaving them.
So the pie is literally gettingsmaller.
Government has said this isgoing to change and yet for some
reason we continue fightingthat fight and in a way that is
not pretty anymore, it's notinspiring anymore.
You know, in the chapter onphilanthropy I start by saying
you know, there's philanthropythat begs and philanthropy that
inspires.
I think we have gotten to aplace where we are living in
this world around, philanthropythat begs and it may work once,
(13:23):
it may work twice, but if we'renot inspiring people, if we're
not leading the change, thenthat support will be very
short-lived and ultimatelydetrimental to the health of our
business.
Elizabeth Bowman (13:33):
Yeah, no one wants to invest in something
unless they understand theimpact of what they're giving
for.
Alex Sarian (13:39):
Yeah, they don't want to bail people out, they
want to invest in the future.
Elizabeth Bowman (13:42):
So, in terms of Calgary and Arts Commons, you
said you didn't know about ArtsCommons before being offered
the position.
How do you change thatinternational recognition while
serving the local community atthe same time?
Alex Sarian (13:57):
So one of the things that I realized very
quickly during the interviewprocess is that Arts Commons was
actually modeled after LincolnCenter from a governance
perspective, and so, all of asudden, the story of Arts
Commons that I feel had beenmisunderstood for so long,
became very clear for me interms of its familiarity and so
a lot of the work we've beentrying to do over the past four
years in terms of articulatingour social impact, our economic
(14:20):
impact, even this idea ofcollective impact as it relates
to the resident companies thatare housed within us incredible
organizations like the CalgaryPhil and Theatre, calgary and
Alberta Theatre Projects andDownstage and the Rat Like it.
Just there's so many amazingstories to tell and I don't
think that we had figured outhow to tell that story.
Now, this idea of local andglobal reputation I find very,
(14:43):
very interesting, becausethere's a phrase that I actually
hate, but I'm going to say itanyways, which is glocal, and it
leans into this tension betweenneeding local approval but
seeking global reputations, andthere's usually this tension,
and what I've come to learn overthe past 10, 15 years is that
organizations that prioritize aglobal reputation first will
(15:05):
ultimately fail.
I think the opposite isactually quite impressive.
When you can build aninternational reputation based
on your local impact, and sothat's something that we've been
leaning into quite a bit.
I mean, obviously, this projectthe Arts Commons Transformation
has an international rippleeffect.
We have internationalarchitects, but we also have
(15:25):
local architects, we haveindigenous architects, we have
female architects, so we'retelling a local story on a
global platform.
This idea of breaking recordsin terms of fundraising and
investment yes, it's reachingears around the world, but it's
ultimately elevating the profileof Calgary.
So one of the things I loveabout this is that, yes, we are
(15:45):
an internationally renownedorganization, and we will become
even more so when we have thisbeautiful campus, but what I
love about it is that we're notdoing it at the expense of being
a Calgary-based organization.
We're doing it because of it,and that's what I find beautiful
and what I tell people all thetime.
If you want people from aroundthe world to know you, then
people in your backyard need tocare first.
Elizabeth Bowman (16:05):
That makes sense from a human perspective.
Ultimately, too, as anindividual, you have to know
what drives you every day andwho you are, and that will
resonate through your work aswell.
Okay, so you talk about theticket pricing.
I just want to get into that alittle bit, because obviously
that's a hot topic right now,with Opera Philadelphia doing
(16:26):
the $11 ticket experiment.
Obviously, they've offset thatwith a donation to cover their
bottom line there.
But you talk about the loweringticket price strategy in the
arts as a potentially harmfulthing in terms of attracting
audiences.
Can you comment on that alittle bit?
Alex Sarian (16:46):
So to me, the big question is when I see these
programs taking place, my firstquestion is why are you doing it
?
Because and listen, I'm goingto preface this by saying that
lowering the financial barrieris incredibly important.
I am not somebody that isadvocating that we should be
passing on the increasing costof producing or presenting arts
to the patrons, particularlywhen those patrons are community
members, and there are economicinjustices in every city that
(17:06):
you can go visit.
My big issue with loweringticket prices to the patrons
particularly when those patronsare community members and there
are economic injustices in everycity that you can go visit my
big issue with lowering ticketprices is that we seem to be
very quick to blame others forour inability to program things
that people value.
So I'll give you an example,and I'm not going to name names,
but there are plenty oforganizations that you and I
know of that program, a seasonor program, a show, and that
(17:28):
show doesn't seem to beresonating with their audiences,
does not seem to be resonatingwith their communities, and the
first instinct is to say, surelyit must be too expensive,
instead of saying maybe wedidn't program the right thing,
and so then what happens is bynot taking accountability for
the fact that we may have notdone the right thing which, by
the way, is okay.
Like before, I was at LincolnCenter, I worked Off-Broadway.
(17:49):
The whole purpose ofOff-Broadway is to throw
spaghetti against the wall andexperiment.
So I'm okay withexperimentation.
I actually think we need to bedoing more of it.
However, when we do things thatare not successful and we don't
hold ourselves accountable tothat and instead we say, oh,
let's lower the ticket prices, Ithink we're shooting ourselves
in the foot twice the first timebecause we're not presenting
things that value and learningfrom that, and the second
(18:11):
because now we're offering it ata discount.
So I encourage people that arequick to talk about the
financial barrier to trulyunderstand why it is that
they're doing it.
You know, I always talk aboutthe case of Hamilton on Broadway
in New York.
Hamilton, first and foremost,established its value to the
consumer.
You know, before they startedtalking about ticket discounts,
they knew that they had thehottest show in Broadway history
(18:34):
, as could be explained by theirridiculous ticket prices.
But because of that, afoundation came in and said
we're going to pay so that everyNew York City public school
middle schooler can attendHamilton as part of their social
studies curriculum.
So that, to me, is a perfectexample of putting something out
into the world which has valueand then saying okay, because it
(18:54):
has value and because it hasbecome so competitive, we are
going to jump in there and lowerthe financial barrier for
people that actually want to seethis but may not be able to, as
opposed to having a mediocreshow that's not going to sell.
I think it's a slippery slopeof an argument because, at the
end of the day, not only are younot taking accountability for
your own choices, you'reactually putting the blame on
community.
(19:15):
And then I have a lot of issueswith well-intentioned
organizations going intocommunities of color
predominantly and saying oh,we're going to lower the ticket
price because our assumption isthat, because you are a
community of color, you don'thave disposable income.
That is a very dangerousassumption and generalization to
be making.
Elizabeth Bowman (19:32):
Right.
Also, if larger organizationsare cutting their ticket prices
to such a huge degree, then thesmaller companies are going to
have a really tough timecompeting with those bigger
companies, even if they have agood product, because
automatically those biggercompanies have brand loyalty
(19:52):
established and so that justbusies up everyone's calendars.
Alex Sarian (19:56):
So there's an example that happened here at
Theatre Calgary.
As pandemic restrictions wereeasing, they came up with this
$39 ticket program.
It wasn't just a flat programthat said, okay, $39 tickets in
perpetuity.
They had this fascinating andreally smart model where they
said this is an exercise inrebuilding our audiences
post-pandemic and getting themback up to a full-going theater
(20:17):
experience.
So their plan started at $39tickets in orchestra only.
So there were people that werestill paying $50, $60, $70, but
for less desirable seats, andtheir plan was to always, over
the course of three years,slowly take those training
wheels off so that by year fouryou had a full-grown community
of theatergoers that were backat paying more competitive
(20:40):
prices.
And I find that fascinating,because Theater Calgary took
accountability and said we havethree years not only to lower
ticket prices but to present thehighest quality of theater that
we can, because by year fourit's no longer about acquiring
new audience members, it's aboutretaining them.
And if we've invested $10, $15million over the course of three
years to subsidize ticketprices and we don't have
(21:02):
audience retention, then we willhave failed.
So there's an incrediblestrategy there around lowering
ticket prices, not because oftheater being undesirable, but
in parallel to that they werepunching above their weight in
the shows.
They were picking theproduction levels.
So that was a really smart,strategic, intentional way of
lowering the financial barrierto get people to fall in love,
(21:25):
because, at the end of the day,what we do know everybody, is
that people will pay for thingsthat they value.
So let's get them to value itfirst.
Elizabeth Bowman (21:32):
Can I hear about what you would hope would
be taught in these artsmanagement programs or arts
administration programs rightnow?
Alex Sarian (21:42):
A sense of service, a sense of understanding that
you know these programs aregoing to create leaders that are
going to go into every cornerof the world, and I wish they
taught us that success isdefined locally and it doesn't
matter how smart you are, itdoesn't matter what strategies
you think you may have access to.
It's ultimately about are youdoing good for the community?
(22:04):
And it's funny because 20 yearsago that was a nice to have,
right.
20 years ago you had peoplethinking this way, but that was
not the norm and, by and large,people that thought being an
arts leader meant that you gotto walk into rooms and be the
smartest person in the room andhave all the answers.
They could get away with it 20years ago.
What I appreciate about thismoment in time is that the
(22:24):
fragility of our sector is sohigh, sadly, that we can't
afford to do that anymore, andso what used to be a nice to
have 15, 20 years ago is now oneof the highest competitive
skills I think we could beteaching people is how do you
develop a value proposition thatis in service to the
communities that surround you?
How does that value propositionthen inform your programming?
(22:47):
How does that programminginform your ticketing?
How does that philosophy theninform your fundraising?
And what I hope my book conveysto people is that it's no
longer the right thing to doanymore.
It's the only way to do it now,and not only is it a nice to
have, if we do it right, it canactually have this domino effect
throughout every corner of ourinstitution.
Where our fundraising is moresuccessful, our employees are
(23:10):
more fulfilled.
I find that it's such a smallshift to make, with such
incredible rewards to be hadsocially, financially,
artistically and I still don'tknow why most people can't do it
.
Elizabeth Bowman (23:22):
This community-first approach reminds
me very much of the lateRichard Bradshaw, who got the
Four Seasons Center built inToronto.
He was a mentor of my husband's, who is a violinist, not an
arts administrator, but Iactually ended up working at the
Canadian Opera Company shortlyafter he passed away.
(23:43):
So I didn't ever connect withhim, but followed along with the
building of the house and knowthat he spent many, many hours
connecting personally withvarious levels of government and
people and individualphilanthropists and really
connected on a person-to-personlevel.
(24:04):
So this really brings me backto hearing about him and also
seeing what you're doing inCalgary.
There's definitely a similarityin the approach.
Alex Sarian (24:14):
That's a beautiful thank you, for I'm very humbled
that this conversation led youto think about him.
But there's also a phrase,there's a question that I ask
all the time, and this questioncan be asked anywhere in the
world, can be asked by anybody,no matter the organization or
their place in it.
The question that I always askis what does the world need
right now that we are uniquelypositioned to do?
And the reason I love thatquestion is because it forces us
(24:36):
to reconcile what the worldneeds with what our mission
empowers us to do right.
So if we only ask the questionwhat does the world need right
now, I think we'd be faced witha slippery slope of mission
drift, and there are lots oforganizations that either chase
the money or chase the need, andbefore you know it, they're
completely unrecognizable.
But if you ask the questionwhat does the world need right
now that we are uniquelypositioned to do, it forces us
(24:58):
to really look at our missionstatement as being in service to
others and maybe, if we'redoing it right, it might
actually force us to stretch ourmission statement a little bit.
And I think that question youknow, I pose that question to
every department at Arts Commonsand they each come up with a
different answer, but ultimatelyit drives the organization in a
common direction and that's.
You know, that question getsphilanthropists excited, that
(25:19):
question gets government excited, that question gives our
patrons that have a sense ofagency.
It gets them excited and itgets our staff excited because
they feel like they're cominginto work and truly making a
difference.
And again, this is not new.
There are sister sectors to usthat have been doing this for so
long Postsecondary healthcare,this idea of cause-based
(25:39):
philanthropy or impact-driveninvestments it's not new in the
world.
And yet, for some reason, thearts sector has been very either
shy or stubborn, I don't knowwhich yet, but we have not been
keeping up, and that's on us.
Elizabeth Bowman (25:52):
Can I ask how you got into arts management to
begin with?
Alex Sarian (25:56):
Yeah, it was not a straight line.
I loved performing as a kid Iperformed theater and music and
then I moved to New York,because you're taught to move to
New York if that's what youwant to pursue.
And when I was in New York Ifell in love with teaching and
for a hot second I almost becamea first grade teacher, which I
was told I would have been verygood at and it was being in a
room with first graders thattaught me about relevance in
(26:18):
practice, because the firstthing they teach you in
education is if your studentisn't learning, it's not their
fault, it's yours.
And what a powerful message tojust carry through life.
So my undergrad was ineducation.
But because I was aninternational student living in
New York at the time and the NewYork City Department of
Education had a hiring freeze, Iremember getting a letter from
NYU saying you know you need tofind a job that will sponsor
(26:40):
your work visa or you need toget ready to leave the country,
and I had moved there fromArgentina.
So the thought of going back toArgentina was terrifying and I
had an advisor that said to melisten, you can still do arts
education, but through the lensof arts management and instead
of your career path being a fulltime classroom teacher, why
don't you start going on thisdirector of education path?
(27:02):
Because most arts organizations, certainly in the US and in
North America, have thisdirector of education path.
So I did that.
I enrolled in a master's ofperforming arts administration
and my career path was to be adirector of education, which I
was for several years, and oneof my mentors and I always
teased and we always asked thisvery provocative question which
(27:22):
was what would happen to the DNAof an arts organization if the
person occupying the CEO'soffice had a background in
education?
This was maybe 10, 12 years ago.
There weren't a lot of thosepeople filling those offices,
and so it was a very provocativequestion because we were able
to daydream about oh, it wouldbe a much more civically-minded
institution, it would be acommunity-based organization,
(27:45):
and not at the expense ofartistic excellence, but because
of it.
And so in many ways I see myrole now as being sort of a
proof of concept to thatprovocation.
So that's my windy answer toyour beautiful question.
Elizabeth Bowman (27:59):
Thanks for being on the podcast today.
It's been really, really lovelyto talk to you.
Alex Sarian (28:03):
Thank you for having me.
It's really a pleasure.
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