March 6, 2025 • 24 mins
With over 25 years of experience, Alexander Brose shares his unique leadership journey. He highlights the invaluable year spent shadowing his predecessor, Peter Simon. This opportunity gave him rare insights and a wealth of institutional knowledge, laying the foundation to lead the Royal Conservatory of Music through its next phase of growth.
We dive into the rich history of The Royal Conservatory of Music and its crucial role in promoting music education across Canada and beyond. As public school music programs face budget cuts, Brose emphasizes the importance of expanding access to music education. He underscores innovative initiatives like Smart Start, which engages children in music from infancy, demonstrating the profound impact of early exposure to music on child development.
This episode offers a thoughtful exploration of music’s transformative power and its essential role in personal and societal development. Tune in for an inspiring conversation about how music connects, educates, and bridges cultures.
All episodes are also available in video form on our YouTube Channel. All episodes are hosted by Elizabeth (Lizzie) Bowman.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Elizabeth Bowman (00:00):
Hi, I'm Elizabeth Bowman and welcome to
the Scene Room.
Today I have Alexander Brosehere.
He is the Michael and SonjaKerner President and CEO of
Canada's the Royal Conservatory,based in Toronto.
He has over 25 years ofexperience working in the
performing arts and educationsphere and most recently he was
(00:20):
the inaugural Executive Directorand CEO of the Tianjin
Juilliard Art School in China.
I'm really excited to talk toAlex about his vision for this
incredible institution.
Alex, welcome to the scene room.
Thanks for coming.
Alexander Brose (00:34):
Hi, great to meet you.
Elizabeth Bowman (00:36):
You're the new .
I guess you came to the RoyalConservatory last year and then
you did a year of overlap withthe previous president, Peter
Simon.
Alexander Brose (00:47):
That's right.
Yeah, so I arrived here inCanada I guess it would have
been August of 23.
Yeah, had a couple of days toget settled in our new place and
the kids into school and thenbegan a year as president and
CEO designate shadowing Peter,you know, trying to really just
see what it is that he's builtor he had built over the past 33
(01:09):
years, which is prettyremarkable.
And, yeah, it was a year longoverlap.
And then I became officiallypresident and CEO just this past
September.
But the year of overlap was avery unique situation, pretty
unorthodox, frankly, to have apresident designate there for an
entire year, and I think it wasunbelievably helpful for me I
mean just an incredible luxuryin fact, to be able to be here
(01:31):
but take a bit of a step backand observe and listen and
really start to absorb just theinfluence that this institution
has across Canada in everydaylives of children and teachers.
It's just pretty overwhelming.
So it took, yeah, it took abouta year to figure that all out.
It's just remarkable.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:44):
That's a really great model for other
institutions to take on board,because of all the institutional
knowledge that you must haveacquired throughout the year
with Peter.
Alexander Brose (01:53):
Yeah, I mean absolutely.
I mean I would obviously highlyrecommend it.
I think it's a two-way streetright.
It takes two people to make itwork for sure, and Peter and I
have just the utmost respect forone another, got to know him
exceptionally well and justthink the world of him.
But, yeah, I would absolutelyrecommend it if it's possible.
I just think having access tothat institutional knowledge,
and not just from Peter.
(02:14):
You know, I was actually able totake a pretty big step back and
offer time up to really anymember of the staff or faculty
who wanted to sit with me andchat for 15 minutes at a time,
and it's something that I didwhen I was in China, when I was
building something from theground up with the Tianjin
Juilliard School.
Every new hire would come intomy office for a little bit
during their first week,regardless of their position,
(02:34):
just to introduce themselves.
I could introduce myself themission of the organization,
just so that we were aligned andon the same page.
Obviously, it's a muchdifferent situation doing it for
an organization that's beenaround for 135 years, but it was
incredible to sit with people,and I sat with about 190 of them
over the course of a year tosit with people whose history
and relationship with theorganization is 70 years long.
(02:58):
I mean, they're teachers whohave been here for over 50 years
, and those teachers who havebeen here for over 50 years
probably went through theconservatory curriculum and
exams prior to that.
So you know, a 74-year-oldteacher here has a 68-year
relationship with theorganization.
That is so unique and it justdoesn't happen anywhere and I
think I knew that that was apossibility upon arrival.
(03:18):
But it really started to hit meas these conversations
continued just how kind ofubiquitous this institution is
for musicians in the country andhow close they feel to the
institution.
Elizabeth Bowman (03:28):
Yeah, it has a very unique position in Canada.
I also went through theconservatory system with music
theory, singing and also mypiano, and I think that's very
unique for an institution totouch so many across an entire
nation and also, like you know,be a bustling Toronto hub as
(03:49):
well.
Yeah.
Alexander Brose (03:50):
Yeah, I mean honestly, I mean I've said it
over and over again over thepast year plus, but I mean I
really don't think there's anyother conservatory like it in
the world to have these kind offive aspects of the organization
all related and all encompassedwithin one brand, right From
the three schools that operatehere on the organization, all
related and all encompassedwithin one brand, right From the
three schools that operate hereon the campus the Glenn Gould
School, the Taylor Academy andthe Oscar Peterson School.
(04:10):
But then the learning systems,which is what we call our
curriculum, our books, our exams, our digital training, our
teacher certification program,our early childhood program, and
then Kerner Hall.
Kerner Hall there's reallynowhere like it.
So it also puts a lot ofpressure on us to do a lot of
things and to be a lot to a lotof people, particularly as the
music in the public educationsystems in Canada continues to
(04:31):
kind of be reduced in many ways,it puts a lot more pressure on
us to fill that vacuum.
Elizabeth Bowman (04:36):
Can I rewind a little bit and find out a
little bit about where you camefrom, your formative years
education?
How did you get to where youare right now?
Let's start at the beginning inbrief.
Alexander Brose (04:48):
Music has always been a part of my life
and I have two parents who arealthough not musical, I mean, I
think that they both havemusical talent.
Music was always in the house,for sure.
I actually was really lucky tohave the opportunity to grow up
overseas.
I was born in New York City butat the age of seven moved to
South Korea and it was reallythere that I started to sing and
to be musical and I was cast ina production of Tom Sawyer in
(05:11):
grade four at the Seoul ForeignSchool and it was an amazing
opportunity.
I began to see, even at a veryyoung age, just how much music
can connect people and serve asa cultural bridge.
I mean, here was a kind of atoe-headed blonde kid singing
Tom Sawyer with a largely Koreancast.
Right, it was just an amazingopportunity and that actually
(05:31):
led to being able to be onKorean television, kind of a
Sesame Street-esque showteaching Korean kids how to
speak English through music, andso, again, just having that
very early exposure to reallywhat the power of music is, not
just in terms of performance andbeauty and all of that, but
real connection and as a toolfor learning.
Anyway.
So I spent many years in Asiaand came back to the US, went to
(05:53):
university in upstate New York.
Really struggled betweenwanting to either be a music
major and something else, orsomething else major with a
music minor or whatever.
I ended up majoring in Asianstudies with a concentration in
China.
Given my experience in EastAsia after South Korea, I was in
Hong Kong so had earlyintroduction even though it's a
Cantonese speaking city andcountry into Mandarin.
(06:13):
So Asian studies, majorconcentration in China.
But I was just more of amusician than a student, taking
advantage of everything thatCornell University had to offer,
knew that music would always bea part of my life.
I didn't know how at all.
I don't think anyone reallytruly knows what they're going
to do when they graduate fromcollege.
I was lucky enough to work forCornell for a couple of years
out in San Francisco and thenfound a job at the San Francisco
Conservatory, which isAmerica's oldest West Coast
(06:36):
Conservatory of Music, goingthrough a major transition from
a very old building out in avery kind of older section of
San Francisco into a newmulti-million dollar home in
Civic Center and so leading theadmissions process there for
many years, then going on laterto development and fundraising
was just an incredibly formativeexperience for me, working in a
terrific city with faculty fromthe San Francisco Symphony
(06:57):
chamber musicians, includingCanadian Bonnie Hampton, who
just are kind of at theforefront of chamber music.
It was just remarkable.
Elizabeth Bowman (07:03):
Yeah.
Alexander Brose (07:03):
So got into music education soon after I
graduated from university andkind of never looked back.
Elizabeth Bowman (07:08):
It's amazing to see how people in senior
roles like yours, like, end upthere, and there's usually a
link in childhood to music.
Oh yeah,
in the arts.
Alexander Brose (07:19):
Oh, absolutely Absolutely.
And I was also very fortunate.
The town that I grew up in,outside of New York City, just a
public high school, had just aremarkable music and theater
program.
I mean just an unbelievableprogram, with numerous choirs
and orchestras and bands and atheater company called the New
Players that I was involved inthat did nine productions a year
, including three musicals,right, wow, musicals right, it's
(07:46):
just unbelievable, right?
So, being a part of thatcommunity, right, being a part
of that kind of arts communityat a very early age, I don't
know you become very attractedto it.
It just kind of becomes a partof who you are and it becomes a
part of who you want to surroundyourself with, you know, just
to be around artists, to bearound creativity, to be around
beauty.
Yeah, it's hard to say goodbyeto that.
Elizabeth Bowman (08:00):
That really underscores again, moving back
to the conservatory theimportance of your role in
Canada and in music education,because, of course, all these
programs are.
A lot of them are getting cutand kids aren't exposed to the
same things, and it's soimportant to expose them young,
otherwise we're going to loseour audiences, which is
(08:20):
obviously the big thing we'reall fighting for within the
industry right now.
What is your long-term vision,your ideal vision for the
conservatory as the newpresident?
Alexander Brose (08:31):
It's a pretty, pretty big question.
I know, yeah, so I mean, as I'vesaid, I mean the conservatory
is a kind of a wildly complexinstitution, right, it has its
hands in almost every aspect ofmusic making, music learning and
music teaching.
It is all things, almost to allpeople.
And you know, I think, lookingaudience goers, building the
(08:52):
future instrument learners,building the future music
(09:14):
teachers, but also buildingfuture scientists, building
future engineers, buildingfuture writers and actors and
politicians and lawyers, andeverything in between is
something that I think music canand should have its hands in.
And so we in our building herein Toronto, this gorgeous
building, for the past 10 yearswe've had an early childhood
program here that was the resultof Peter Simon's vision of
(09:37):
really connecting just howimportant early childhood music
study is to teaching learnershow to learn right and all of
the studies that have been shown, and we've known for a long
time that early access to musicstudy opens the synapses, the
neural pathways, in terms ofreally building a platform for
(09:58):
better literacy and numeracy andIQ and problem-solving and
language learning and all ofthose things that are important
cognitive functions for us inlife.
So this program called smartstart starts at infancy.
I mean you can have asix-month-old and join a class
here with a trained Smart Startteacher as a parent or caregiver
.
You would be sitting in theclass until the kid is three
(10:18):
years old and then after that,in terms of those upticks that I
just mentioned, is trulyprofound.
We can't claim causality, butwe certainly can say that early
(10:38):
introduction to music kind ofmakes kids spear.
It's just an amazing thing tosee these young children enjoy
music and having it beintroduced to them at such an
early age.
Elizabeth Bowman (10:47):
I can see it in my own children.
I have a seven-year-old and anine-year-old and of course
they're in a very musicalhousehold with their father
who's a violinist, and my lifehas always been centered around
performing arts, even as acommunicator.
But it's amazing to see themlearn, focus and learn these
things.
But it is a fun way to learn itand to see their brains getting
(11:11):
trained in that way.
Also, I was reading AlexSarian's book, the Audacity of
Relevance recently Great book.
I'm actually going to have himon the podcast too.
He talks about this issue aswell the importance of having
them in the theater before somevery young age maybe it's before
the age of five or six, youknow for them to experience some
(11:32):
type of performing art whilethey're young.
Statistically it will translateinto them being theater lovers
or ballet lovers or art loversthroughout their lives, and it
usually bleeds into the otherarts too, because once you are
doing music, you can thenappreciate music history.
(11:53):
And then you can appreciate,you start wondering like, why
was this piece written?
Oh, it was a political movement.
And then next thing you knowyou're into politics and then
art, and then what was yourfirst show?
Alexander Brose (12:05):
What was the first thing you saw that you
remember?
Elizabeth Bowman (12:07):
Oh, my goodness, I don't know.
I grew up in Ottawa.
It was probably the Marriage ofFigaro.
That's my mom's favorite opera,so I feel like that was likely
the earliest one.
The earliest one I was in wasFalstaff.
Alexander Brose (12:25):
Really yeah.
Elizabeth Bowman (12:27):
I was in the chorus.
Alexander Brose (12:29):
Yeah.
Elizabeth Bowman (12:30):
And I was like a fairy nymph for some reason
you know, and that wasmesmerizing Totally.
Alexander Brose (12:37):
Oh, that's so interesting.
Yeah, I mean, I think one ofthe first things I ever saw was
maybe Annie or something onBroadway, or maybe it was a
Nutcracker or something in NewYork City which you know is
always so incredibly exuberant,but I actually grew up in
Cooperstown, new York, as well.
Elizabeth Bowman (12:57):
And so my first time on stage was as a
small kid, in Madam Butterfly ina Glimmerglass opera production
.
Alexander Brose (13:00):
Wow, yeah, exactly Makeup and wig and
everything else.
And so you just like that smellof hairspray.
Whenever you smell it, you'relike yep.
I remember that from when I wasfive.
Elizabeth Bowman (13:08):
Yeah, I did grow up in church choir
environment which was very yeah,very involved, and there was a
men and boys choir and a girlschoir and I was head chorister
and all the things and mybrother was head chorister, you
know it was my mom and I sang ina church choir together.
Right, exactly, I mean.
(13:30):
These things translate to alove of music throughout your
life and general happiness andwell-being too right.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
The past 10 years things havechanged in the scope of
(13:50):
communications for all artsinstitutions and likely the
conservatory as well.
With arts journalists dwindlingand opportunities to get your
message out there lessopportunity to do that.
Owned media has come up.
What's theimportance of owned media, for
(14:26):
you?
probably played on some of themfor our books, I mean, it's,
it's.
We have all of these wonderfulrecordings so that our students
who are studying the RCMcurriculum can go online and
hear the pieces that they'replaying.
Right, it's an incredibleresource, thousands of hours of
content, and for us it's aquestion of kind of what we do
with it.
Right, how do we, how do wemake it more accessible?
(14:46):
You know, there's always I mean, I think, for those who may be
listening, who were studying theRCM in the eighties or
something like that, right, theywould buy the book, yes, and
there was probably a CD tuckedinto the back of it, right, and
you could go and you couldlisten to the pieces and
everything else, right?
I actually found one of thoseLong and Mcquade at recently
trying to buy a saxophone bookfor my younger son, and I picked
it up an old copy, right, butthat does say something, right?
(15:11):
You know, how are peopleconsuming content these days?
How are people buying books?
What can we do to make it moreaccessible for people?
Do we digitize our curriculum?
Do we digitize our books?
That's digital replacement in away.
But how do we transform whatwe're doing through the
digitization of our books andour curriculum and all of those
recordings?
Right?
You know why isn't there anApple music channel for RCM
(15:32):
where you can go on there,regardless of whether or not
you've bought the book?
Maybe you're a level sevenpianist or a level five
violinist and you want to listento those tracks.
You go on there and there, theyare right yeah.
There they are.
So we're really talking aboutwhat it means for the RCM to
transform digitally, what theresources are going to be to
allow for that to happen,because it's a heavy lift.
It's a heavy lift to bring aninstitution that has been here
(15:54):
for 135 years performing verywell.
I mean, we're doing greatthings, but to bring it into
even the 21st century is a tallorder.
Yeah, I always loved about the RCM books.
I loved how they divided up therepertoire.
You have your Baroque stuff andthen you're moving into
(16:15):
classical.
It was always organized in sucha way that really allowed the
student to understand the waymusic has grown through the
years.
Alexander Brose (16:25):
So you don know .
Elizabeth Bowman (16:25):
So you, you don't even know that you're
studying that because you're asa student you're like, oh, I
just need these contrastingpieces.
It's a list or the B list, youknow what I mean.
But like, then you take a musicdegree and you study all the
periods and then you're like, oh, I see, I see what they did
there.
Alexander Brose (16:42):
Yeah, Well, so it's so funny you say that,
lizzie, because one of thestories that I've told kind of
repeatedly over the past year orso was an experience that I had
when I was working in SanFrancisco at the conservatory
there as director of admissions.
And I was sitting in my officeone day and I got a knock on the
door from our lead music theoryand music history teachers and
they had just completed theirplacement exams for the year and
(17:04):
at the time we were actuallygetting a fair number of
Canadian applicants and Canadianstudents who are matriculating
and enrolling at the SanFrancisco Conservatory because
of a couple of different facultywho are recruiting heavily at
now Royal and other programsthroughout Canada.
And they came into my officeand they said, alex, do you have
any idea what's going on inCanada?
I mean no, why do you ask?
(17:25):
He said, well, you know, everysingle Canadian student has
passed out of our theory and ourhistory exams and we don't know
what's going on.
And a very minor dip of the toeinto trying to figure that out
resulted in Royal Conservatoryof Music.
They had all gotten their ARsor they had all passed level 10.
And they had all gone throughthat rigorous theory and history
(17:46):
curriculum side by side, theperformance curriculum and
practical curriculum, and soit's just really an eye opening
thing for me to see that andit's continued, I mean, since
getting here, just seeing justhow kind of holistic the music
education here is in Canada andhow really comprehensive the
understanding of classical musichere in this country and why
(18:08):
it's just great yeah.
Elizabeth Bowman (18:09):
I remember taking the top level of the
music history exam for theconservatory and I think I was
in grade 10 in school at thetime and so far off from my
university days, but really Iwas young and studying basically
what I would end up studying inmy first year of university.
Since I'm a Canadian based inthe US, I just wanted to ask you
(18:33):
about your presence in the inthe United States market.
I personally have bought RCMbooks for my kids.
Alexander Brose (18:40):
So RCM has had a presence in the US for for a
very long time.
I think we probably do aboutbetween 55 and 60,000 exams a
year, for example, and about7,000 or 8,000, maybe 9,000 of
those come from the US, so it'sa pretty good foothold.
There are pockets within the USthat are very devoted to the
RCM curriculum.
Southern California inparticular is a really, really
(19:02):
strong base for us.
Pockets in Texas, illinois,massachusetts, tri-state area,
florida yeah, a lot of really,really terrific teachers who
have found out about the RoyalConservatory of Music.
We have these incredible eventsover the course of an academic
year called Celebrations ofExcellence, and so we have
basically the gold medaliststhose who have scored the
(19:22):
highest on their exams in Canadaall come to the RCM to Toronto
and do a showcase concert,usually in the fall.
But we do the same thing forkids who have taken the exams in
the US and they actually cometo Carnegie Hall and we do a
showcase concert at CarnegieHall every January, which is
terrific, and it's beeninteresting getting to know
those students and theirfamilies.
Many of them have a Canadianconnection, right?
(19:44):
So maybe their parents wereCanadian, they grew up in Canada
, now they're living in the USand of course, they were gonna
study the RCM.
But others found out about itthrough their teachers.
So many teachers have found outabout the curriculum and the
method and just are so devotedto it because it's so good.
Right, it encompasses all thethings that we've actually been
talking about.
It's been really wonderful tosee really that awareness
(20:06):
growing in the US about what theRCM can do for early music
study and beyond and I think asa result of that, I suppose and
we need to do a better job.
I mean, part of what my mandateis is to really work on the
brand of the conservatory rightso that a student studying the
piano curriculum in OrangeCounty, california, knows that
(20:26):
when they graduate from highschool there is a school in
Toronto called the Glenn GouldSchool that's part of the Royal
Conservatory of Music that theycould apply to and come study
piano right.
I don't think there are manyAmericans, certainly who know
that there's that connection andin fact I don't even know if
all Canadians understand thatstudying the curriculum in Red
Deer is something that isconnected to a campus in Toronto
(20:49):
.
And in fact there was a reallygreat interview in the New York
Times recently with Eugene Levyand he was talking about his
five favorite things in Torontoand one of them was Kerner Hall
and really wonderful photo ofKerner Hall and, of course, the
comments in the digital onlineversion were so fantastic.
One person wrote in, I thinkfrom Alberta, maybe BC, saying
wow, you know, I went through mybooks and I got grade eight and
(21:10):
I never knew that the RoyalConservatory was an actual
building in a school in Toronto.
So what can we do?
Right?
What can we do to really informand educate people about what
this institution really is right, from the books and the exams,
but also to the schools that wehave here and then the
incredible concert stage that wehave here in our midst as well?
Elizabeth Bowman (21:30):
Well, the good news is that you have the
product and you have the backing, and so then you're just
looking for a strategy.
So that's a better position tobe in than most.
Yeah, that's a very good point?
Alexander Brose (21:44):
Absolutely no.
It's so lucky to haveeverything that's gone on here
for 135 years and even over thepast 33 years.
Right, peter's vision, you knowit's separation from the
University of Toronto and what'sbeen built since that time.
It's kind of nothing short of amiracle, to be honest.
Right To create a degreeprogram, to create a really
high-end program for kids 8 to18 years old from all over the
(22:07):
GTA to build Kerner Hall, andit's just a very, very
incredible institution and Ijust feel so lucky to be a part
of it.
Elizabeth Bowman (22:14):
Can I ask what you do when you're not
president doing your job?
Alexander Brose (22:18):
Oh man, I wish I didn't have to think so hard
about it.
Yeah, I have two boys and anincredible wife and I do love
spending time with them.
We try and travel as much as wecan.
We're actually off to Chilenext week to see my wife's
family in South America, whichis really, really exciting First
time for one of my sons to go.
So travel has always been ahuge part of my upbringing.
Having grown up in Asia andseen the world at a very young
(22:40):
age kind of get the bug, and Ithink my kids got it to a degree
when we were living in Chinastarting in 2017.
And up until COVID, we werejust traveling and seeing just
the most incredible places, andso I think travel will always be
an important part of our familyand if we can find the time to
do it.
It obviously takes up a lot oftime.
It takes you out of the officewhen you're traveling.
I love baseball.
Not going to lie, you know I'ma rabid baseball fan and I am a
(23:05):
Yankee fan, although I havenumerous, numerous no hold on.
I have numerous Jays hats andhave gone to numerous games and
just love the spirit and theculture of baseball in Toronto
and throughout Canada and it's,you know, very important board
member here on our board has gotvery deep ties to the Jays and
so, yeah, the Jays just love theexperience of going to see that
(23:28):
team play and hopefully they dobetter this year than they did
last year.
And I love political science.
I just, you know, having grownup overseas and having been an
Asian Studies major and havingworked abroad, you know, in
Canada and just the electionsand politics and all of that
stuff.
I mean today's election dayhere in Toronto, exciting.
But yeah, I've always just beenvery fascinated with government
(23:49):
and politics and things likethat, so I spend a lot of time
reading about that as well.
Foreign policy, that kind ofstuff.
Elizabeth Bowman (23:54):
Well, it's certainly an interesting time
for that.
Alexander Brose (23:58):
Is it?
Ever I won't comment Is it everBit of, yeah, bit of kryptonite
?
Elizabeth Bowman (24:04):
Yeah, thanks for being on the podcast and for
having this conversation, and Ihope to connect with you more.
Alexander Brose (24:11):
Oh, Lizzie, thanks so much.
This has been super fun.
Thanks for doing this.
It's been a pleasure to watchyour other episodes and I hope
to work with you again soon.
Hi, I'm Elizabeth Bowman and welcome to
the Scene Room.
Today I have Alexander Brosehere.
He is the Michael and SonjaKerner President and CEO of
Canada's the Royal Conservatory,based in Toronto.
He has over 25 years ofexperience working in the
performing arts and educationsphere and most recently he was
(00:20):
the inaugural Executive Directorand CEO of the Tianjin
Juilliard Art School in China.
I'm really excited to talk toAlex about his vision for this
incredible institution.
Alex, welcome to the scene room.
Thanks for coming.
Alexander Brose (00:34):
Hi, great to meet you.
Elizabeth Bowman (00:36):
You're the new .
I guess you came to the RoyalConservatory last year and then
you did a year of overlap withthe previous president, Peter
Simon.
Alexander Brose (00:47):
That's right.
Yeah, so I arrived here inCanada I guess it would have
been August of 23.
Yeah, had a couple of days toget settled in our new place and
the kids into school and thenbegan a year as president and
CEO designate shadowing Peter,you know, trying to really just
see what it is that he's builtor he had built over the past 33
(01:09):
years, which is prettyremarkable.
And, yeah, it was a year longoverlap.
And then I became officiallypresident and CEO just this past
September.
But the year of overlap was avery unique situation, pretty
unorthodox, frankly, to have apresident designate there for an
entire year, and I think it wasunbelievably helpful for me I
mean just an incredible luxuryin fact, to be able to be here
(01:31):
but take a bit of a step backand observe and listen and
really start to absorb just theinfluence that this institution
has across Canada in everydaylives of children and teachers.
It's just pretty overwhelming.
So it took, yeah, it took abouta year to figure that all out.
It's just remarkable.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:44):
That's a really great model for other
institutions to take on board,because of all the institutional
knowledge that you must haveacquired throughout the year
with Peter.
Alexander Brose (01:53):
Yeah, I mean absolutely.
I mean I would obviously highlyrecommend it.
I think it's a two-way streetright.
It takes two people to make itwork for sure, and Peter and I
have just the utmost respect forone another, got to know him
exceptionally well and justthink the world of him.
But, yeah, I would absolutelyrecommend it if it's possible.
I just think having access tothat institutional knowledge,
and not just from Peter.
(02:14):
You know, I was actually able totake a pretty big step back and
offer time up to really anymember of the staff or faculty
who wanted to sit with me andchat for 15 minutes at a time,
and it's something that I didwhen I was in China, when I was
building something from theground up with the Tianjin
Juilliard School.
Every new hire would come intomy office for a little bit
during their first week,regardless of their position,
(02:34):
just to introduce themselves.
I could introduce myself themission of the organization,
just so that we were aligned andon the same page.
Obviously, it's a muchdifferent situation doing it for
an organization that's beenaround for 135 years, but it was
incredible to sit with people,and I sat with about 190 of them
over the course of a year tosit with people whose history
and relationship with theorganization is 70 years long.
(02:58):
I mean, they're teachers whohave been here for over 50 years
, and those teachers who havebeen here for over 50 years
probably went through theconservatory curriculum and
exams prior to that.
So you know, a 74-year-oldteacher here has a 68-year
relationship with theorganization.
That is so unique and it justdoesn't happen anywhere and I
think I knew that that was apossibility upon arrival.
(03:18):
But it really started to hit meas these conversations
continued just how kind ofubiquitous this institution is
for musicians in the country andhow close they feel to the
institution.
Elizabeth Bowman (03:28):
Yeah, it has a very unique position in Canada.
I also went through theconservatory system with music
theory, singing and also mypiano, and I think that's very
unique for an institution totouch so many across an entire
nation and also, like you know,be a bustling Toronto hub as
(03:49):
well.
Yeah.
Alexander Brose (03:50):
Yeah, I mean honestly, I mean I've said it
over and over again over thepast year plus, but I mean I
really don't think there's anyother conservatory like it in
the world to have these kind offive aspects of the organization
all related and all encompassedwithin one brand, right From
the three schools that operatehere on the organization, all
related and all encompassedwithin one brand, right From the
three schools that operate hereon the campus the Glenn Gould
School, the Taylor Academy andthe Oscar Peterson School.
(04:10):
But then the learning systems,which is what we call our
curriculum, our books, our exams, our digital training, our
teacher certification program,our early childhood program, and
then Kerner Hall.
Kerner Hall there's reallynowhere like it.
So it also puts a lot ofpressure on us to do a lot of
things and to be a lot to a lotof people, particularly as the
music in the public educationsystems in Canada continues to
(04:31):
kind of be reduced in many ways,it puts a lot more pressure on
us to fill that vacuum.
Elizabeth Bowman (04:36):
Can I rewind a little bit and find out a
little bit about where you camefrom, your formative years
education?
How did you get to where youare right now?
Let's start at the beginning inbrief.
Alexander Brose (04:48):
Music has always been a part of my life
and I have two parents who arealthough not musical, I mean, I
think that they both havemusical talent.
Music was always in the house,for sure.
I actually was really lucky tohave the opportunity to grow up
overseas.
I was born in New York City butat the age of seven moved to
South Korea and it was reallythere that I started to sing and
to be musical and I was cast ina production of Tom Sawyer in
(05:11):
grade four at the Seoul ForeignSchool and it was an amazing
opportunity.
I began to see, even at a veryyoung age, just how much music
can connect people and serve asa cultural bridge.
I mean, here was a kind of atoe-headed blonde kid singing
Tom Sawyer with a largely Koreancast.
Right, it was just an amazingopportunity and that actually
(05:31):
led to being able to be onKorean television, kind of a
Sesame Street-esque showteaching Korean kids how to
speak English through music, andso, again, just having that
very early exposure to reallywhat the power of music is, not
just in terms of performance andbeauty and all of that, but
real connection and as a toolfor learning.
Anyway.
So I spent many years in Asiaand came back to the US, went to
(05:53):
university in upstate New York.
Really struggled betweenwanting to either be a music
major and something else, orsomething else major with a
music minor or whatever.
I ended up majoring in Asianstudies with a concentration in
China.
Given my experience in EastAsia after South Korea, I was in
Hong Kong so had earlyintroduction even though it's a
Cantonese speaking city andcountry into Mandarin.
(06:13):
So Asian studies, majorconcentration in China.
But I was just more of amusician than a student, taking
advantage of everything thatCornell University had to offer,
knew that music would always bea part of my life.
I didn't know how at all.
I don't think anyone reallytruly knows what they're going
to do when they graduate fromcollege.
I was lucky enough to work forCornell for a couple of years
out in San Francisco and thenfound a job at the San Francisco
Conservatory, which isAmerica's oldest West Coast
(06:36):
Conservatory of Music, goingthrough a major transition from
a very old building out in avery kind of older section of
San Francisco into a newmulti-million dollar home in
Civic Center and so leading theadmissions process there for
many years, then going on laterto development and fundraising
was just an incredibly formativeexperience for me, working in a
terrific city with faculty fromthe San Francisco Symphony
(06:57):
chamber musicians, includingCanadian Bonnie Hampton, who
just are kind of at theforefront of chamber music.
It was just remarkable.
Elizabeth Bowman (07:03):
Yeah.
Alexander Brose (07:03):
So got into music education soon after I
graduated from university andkind of never looked back.
Elizabeth Bowman (07:08):
It's amazing to see how people in senior
roles like yours, like, end upthere, and there's usually a
link in childhood to music.
Oh yeah,
in the arts.
Alexander Brose (07:19):
Oh, absolutely Absolutely.
And I was also very fortunate.
The town that I grew up in,outside of New York City, just a
public high school, had just aremarkable music and theater
program.
I mean just an unbelievableprogram, with numerous choirs
and orchestras and bands and atheater company called the New
Players that I was involved inthat did nine productions a year
, including three musicals,right, wow, musicals right, it's
(07:46):
just unbelievable, right?
So, being a part of thatcommunity, right, being a part
of that kind of arts communityat a very early age, I don't
know you become very attractedto it.
It just kind of becomes a partof who you are and it becomes a
part of who you want to surroundyourself with, you know, just
to be around artists, to bearound creativity, to be around
beauty.
Yeah, it's hard to say goodbyeto that.
Elizabeth Bowman (08:00):
That really underscores again, moving back
to the conservatory theimportance of your role in
Canada and in music education,because, of course, all these
programs are.
A lot of them are getting cutand kids aren't exposed to the
same things, and it's soimportant to expose them young,
otherwise we're going to loseour audiences, which is
(08:20):
obviously the big thing we'reall fighting for within the
industry right now.
What is your long-term vision,your ideal vision for the
conservatory as the newpresident?
Alexander Brose (08:31):
It's a pretty, pretty big question.
I know, yeah, so I mean, as I'vesaid, I mean the conservatory
is a kind of a wildly complexinstitution, right, it has its
hands in almost every aspect ofmusic making, music learning and
music teaching.
It is all things, almost to allpeople.
And you know, I think, lookingaudience goers, building the
(08:52):
future instrument learners,building the future music
(09:14):
teachers, but also buildingfuture scientists, building
future engineers, buildingfuture writers and actors and
politicians and lawyers, andeverything in between is
something that I think music canand should have its hands in.
And so we in our building herein Toronto, this gorgeous
building, for the past 10 yearswe've had an early childhood
program here that was the resultof Peter Simon's vision of
(09:37):
really connecting just howimportant early childhood music
study is to teaching learnershow to learn right and all of
the studies that have been shown, and we've known for a long
time that early access to musicstudy opens the synapses, the
neural pathways, in terms ofreally building a platform for
(09:58):
better literacy and numeracy andIQ and problem-solving and
language learning and all ofthose things that are important
cognitive functions for us inlife.
So this program called smartstart starts at infancy.
I mean you can have asix-month-old and join a class
here with a trained Smart Startteacher as a parent or caregiver
.
You would be sitting in theclass until the kid is three
(10:18):
years old and then after that,in terms of those upticks that I
just mentioned, is trulyprofound.
We can't claim causality, butwe certainly can say that early
(10:38):
introduction to music kind ofmakes kids spear.
It's just an amazing thing tosee these young children enjoy
music and having it beintroduced to them at such an
early age.
Elizabeth Bowman (10:47):
I can see it in my own children.
I have a seven-year-old and anine-year-old and of course
they're in a very musicalhousehold with their father
who's a violinist, and my lifehas always been centered around
performing arts, even as acommunicator.
But it's amazing to see themlearn, focus and learn these
things.
But it is a fun way to learn itand to see their brains getting
(11:11):
trained in that way.
Also, I was reading AlexSarian's book, the Audacity of
Relevance recently Great book.
I'm actually going to have himon the podcast too.
He talks about this issue aswell the importance of having
them in the theater before somevery young age maybe it's before
the age of five or six, youknow for them to experience some
(11:32):
type of performing art whilethey're young.
Statistically it will translateinto them being theater lovers
or ballet lovers or art loversthroughout their lives, and it
usually bleeds into the otherarts too, because once you are
doing music, you can thenappreciate music history.
(11:53):
And then you can appreciate,you start wondering like, why
was this piece written?
Oh, it was a political movement.
And then next thing you knowyou're into politics and then
art, and then what was yourfirst show?
Alexander Brose (12:05):
What was the first thing you saw that you
remember?
Elizabeth Bowman (12:07):
Oh, my goodness, I don't know.
I grew up in Ottawa.
It was probably the Marriage ofFigaro.
That's my mom's favorite opera,so I feel like that was likely
the earliest one.
The earliest one I was in wasFalstaff.
Alexander Brose (12:25):
Really yeah.
Elizabeth Bowman (12:27):
I was in the chorus.
Alexander Brose (12:29):
Yeah.
Elizabeth Bowman (12:30):
And I was like a fairy nymph for some reason
you know, and that wasmesmerizing Totally.
Alexander Brose (12:37):
Oh, that's so interesting.
Yeah, I mean, I think one ofthe first things I ever saw was
maybe Annie or something onBroadway, or maybe it was a
Nutcracker or something in NewYork City which you know is
always so incredibly exuberant,but I actually grew up in
Cooperstown, new York, as well.
Elizabeth Bowman (12:57):
And so my first time on stage was as a
small kid, in Madam Butterfly ina Glimmerglass opera production
.
Alexander Brose (13:00):
Wow, yeah, exactly Makeup and wig and
everything else.
And so you just like that smellof hairspray.
Whenever you smell it, you'relike yep.
I remember that from when I wasfive.
Elizabeth Bowman (13:08):
Yeah, I did grow up in church choir
environment which was very yeah,very involved, and there was a
men and boys choir and a girlschoir and I was head chorister
and all the things and mybrother was head chorister, you
know it was my mom and I sang ina church choir together.
Right, exactly, I mean.
(13:30):
These things translate to alove of music throughout your
life and general happiness andwell-being too right.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
The past 10 years things havechanged in the scope of
(13:50):
communications for all artsinstitutions and likely the
conservatory as well.
With arts journalists dwindlingand opportunities to get your
message out there lessopportunity to do that.
Owned media has come up.
What's theimportance of owned media, for
(14:26):
you?
probably played on some of themfor our books, I mean, it's,
it's.
We have all of these wonderfulrecordings so that our students
who are studying the RCMcurriculum can go online and
hear the pieces that they'replaying.
Right, it's an incredibleresource, thousands of hours of
content, and for us it's aquestion of kind of what we do
with it.
Right, how do we, how do wemake it more accessible?
(14:46):
You know, there's always I mean, I think, for those who may be
listening, who were studying theRCM in the eighties or
something like that, right, theywould buy the book, yes, and
there was probably a CD tuckedinto the back of it, right, and
you could go and you couldlisten to the pieces and
everything else, right?
I actually found one of thoseLong and Mcquade at recently
trying to buy a saxophone bookfor my younger son, and I picked
it up an old copy, right, butthat does say something, right?
(15:11):
You know, how are peopleconsuming content these days?
How are people buying books?
What can we do to make it moreaccessible for people?
Do we digitize our curriculum?
Do we digitize our books?
That's digital replacement in away.
But how do we transform whatwe're doing through the
digitization of our books andour curriculum and all of those
recordings?
Right?
You know why isn't there anApple music channel for RCM
(15:32):
where you can go on there,regardless of whether or not
you've bought the book?
Maybe you're a level sevenpianist or a level five
violinist and you want to listento those tracks.
You go on there and there, theyare right yeah.
There they are.
So we're really talking aboutwhat it means for the RCM to
transform digitally, what theresources are going to be to
allow for that to happen,because it's a heavy lift.
It's a heavy lift to bring aninstitution that has been here
(15:54):
for 135 years performing verywell.
I mean, we're doing greatthings, but to bring it into
even the 21st century is a tallorder.
Yeah, I always loved about the RCM books.
I loved how they divided up therepertoire.
You have your Baroque stuff andthen you're moving into
(16:15):
classical.
It was always organized in sucha way that really allowed the
student to understand the waymusic has grown through the
years.
Alexander Brose (16:25):
So you don know .
Elizabeth Bowman (16:25):
So you, you don't even know that you're
studying that because you're asa student you're like, oh, I
just need these contrastingpieces.
It's a list or the B list, youknow what I mean.
But like, then you take a musicdegree and you study all the
periods and then you're like, oh, I see, I see what they did
there.
Alexander Brose (16:42):
Yeah, Well, so it's so funny you say that,
lizzie, because one of thestories that I've told kind of
repeatedly over the past year orso was an experience that I had
when I was working in SanFrancisco at the conservatory
there as director of admissions.
And I was sitting in my officeone day and I got a knock on the
door from our lead music theoryand music history teachers and
they had just completed theirplacement exams for the year and
(17:04):
at the time we were actuallygetting a fair number of
Canadian applicants and Canadianstudents who are matriculating
and enrolling at the SanFrancisco Conservatory because
of a couple of different facultywho are recruiting heavily at
now Royal and other programsthroughout Canada.
And they came into my officeand they said, alex, do you have
any idea what's going on inCanada?
I mean no, why do you ask?
(17:25):
He said, well, you know, everysingle Canadian student has
passed out of our theory and ourhistory exams and we don't know
what's going on.
And a very minor dip of the toeinto trying to figure that out
resulted in Royal Conservatoryof Music.
They had all gotten their ARsor they had all passed level 10.
And they had all gone throughthat rigorous theory and history
(17:46):
curriculum side by side, theperformance curriculum and
practical curriculum, and soit's just really an eye opening
thing for me to see that andit's continued, I mean, since
getting here, just seeing justhow kind of holistic the music
education here is in Canada andhow really comprehensive the
understanding of classical musichere in this country and why
(18:08):
it's just great yeah.
Elizabeth Bowman (18:09):
I remember taking the top level of the
music history exam for theconservatory and I think I was
in grade 10 in school at thetime and so far off from my
university days, but really Iwas young and studying basically
what I would end up studying inmy first year of university.
Since I'm a Canadian based inthe US, I just wanted to ask you
(18:33):
about your presence in the inthe United States market.
I personally have bought RCMbooks for my kids.
Alexander Brose (18:40):
So RCM has had a presence in the US for for a
very long time.
I think we probably do aboutbetween 55 and 60,000 exams a
year, for example, and about7,000 or 8,000, maybe 9,000 of
those come from the US, so it'sa pretty good foothold.
There are pockets within the USthat are very devoted to the
RCM curriculum.
Southern California inparticular is a really, really
(19:02):
strong base for us.
Pockets in Texas, illinois,massachusetts, tri-state area,
florida yeah, a lot of really,really terrific teachers who
have found out about the RoyalConservatory of Music.
We have these incredible eventsover the course of an academic
year called Celebrations ofExcellence, and so we have
basically the gold medaliststhose who have scored the
(19:22):
highest on their exams in Canadaall come to the RCM to Toronto
and do a showcase concert,usually in the fall.
But we do the same thing forkids who have taken the exams in
the US and they actually cometo Carnegie Hall and we do a
showcase concert at CarnegieHall every January, which is
terrific, and it's beeninteresting getting to know
those students and theirfamilies.
Many of them have a Canadianconnection, right?
(19:44):
So maybe their parents wereCanadian, they grew up in Canada
, now they're living in the USand of course, they were gonna
study the RCM.
But others found out about itthrough their teachers.
So many teachers have found outabout the curriculum and the
method and just are so devotedto it because it's so good.
Right, it encompasses all thethings that we've actually been
talking about.
It's been really wonderful tosee really that awareness
(20:06):
growing in the US about what theRCM can do for early music
study and beyond and I think asa result of that, I suppose and
we need to do a better job.
I mean, part of what my mandateis is to really work on the
brand of the conservatory rightso that a student studying the
piano curriculum in OrangeCounty, california, knows that
(20:26):
when they graduate from highschool there is a school in
Toronto called the Glenn GouldSchool that's part of the Royal
Conservatory of Music that theycould apply to and come study
piano right.
I don't think there are manyAmericans, certainly who know
that there's that connection andin fact I don't even know if
all Canadians understand thatstudying the curriculum in Red
Deer is something that isconnected to a campus in Toronto
(20:49):
.
And in fact there was a reallygreat interview in the New York
Times recently with Eugene Levyand he was talking about his
five favorite things in Torontoand one of them was Kerner Hall
and really wonderful photo ofKerner Hall and, of course, the
comments in the digital onlineversion were so fantastic.
One person wrote in, I thinkfrom Alberta, maybe BC, saying
wow, you know, I went through mybooks and I got grade eight and
(21:10):
I never knew that the RoyalConservatory was an actual
building in a school in Toronto.
So what can we do?
Right?
What can we do to really informand educate people about what
this institution really is right, from the books and the exams,
but also to the schools that wehave here and then the
incredible concert stage that wehave here in our midst as well?
Elizabeth Bowman (21:30):
Well, the good news is that you have the
product and you have the backing, and so then you're just
looking for a strategy.
So that's a better position tobe in than most.
Yeah, that's a very good point?
Alexander Brose (21:44):
Absolutely no.
It's so lucky to haveeverything that's gone on here
for 135 years and even over thepast 33 years.
Right, peter's vision, you knowit's separation from the
University of Toronto and what'sbeen built since that time.
It's kind of nothing short of amiracle, to be honest.
Right To create a degreeprogram, to create a really
high-end program for kids 8 to18 years old from all over the
(22:07):
GTA to build Kerner Hall, andit's just a very, very
incredible institution and Ijust feel so lucky to be a part
of it.
Elizabeth Bowman (22:14):
Can I ask what you do when you're not
president doing your job?
Alexander Brose (22:18):
Oh man, I wish I didn't have to think so hard
about it.
Yeah, I have two boys and anincredible wife and I do love
spending time with them.
We try and travel as much as wecan.
We're actually off to Chilenext week to see my wife's
family in South America, whichis really, really exciting First
time for one of my sons to go.
So travel has always been ahuge part of my upbringing.
Having grown up in Asia andseen the world at a very young
(22:40):
age kind of get the bug, and Ithink my kids got it to a degree
when we were living in Chinastarting in 2017.
And up until COVID, we werejust traveling and seeing just
the most incredible places, andso I think travel will always be
an important part of our familyand if we can find the time to
do it.
It obviously takes up a lot oftime.
It takes you out of the officewhen you're traveling.
I love baseball.
Not going to lie, you know I'ma rabid baseball fan and I am a
(23:05):
Yankee fan, although I havenumerous, numerous no hold on.
I have numerous Jays hats andhave gone to numerous games and
just love the spirit and theculture of baseball in Toronto
and throughout Canada and it's,you know, very important board
member here on our board has gotvery deep ties to the Jays and
so, yeah, the Jays just love theexperience of going to see that
(23:28):
team play and hopefully they dobetter this year than they did
last year.
And I love political science.
I just, you know, having grownup overseas and having been an
Asian Studies major and havingworked abroad, you know, in
Canada and just the electionsand politics and all of that
stuff.
I mean today's election dayhere in Toronto, exciting.
But yeah, I've always just beenvery fascinated with government
(23:49):
and politics and things likethat, so I spend a lot of time
reading about that as well.
Foreign policy, that kind ofstuff.
Elizabeth Bowman (23:54):
Well, it's certainly an interesting time
for that.
Alexander Brose (23:58):
Is it?
Ever I won't comment Is it everBit of, yeah, bit of kryptonite
?
Elizabeth Bowman (24:04):
Yeah, thanks for being on the podcast and for
having this conversation, and Ihope to connect with you more.
Alexander Brose (24:11):
Oh, Lizzie, thanks so much.
This has been super fun.
Thanks for doing this.
It's been a pleasure to watchyour other episodes and I hope
to work with you again soon.
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