March 20, 2025 • 32 mins
What happens when arts marketers get caught in a loop of generic language like "spellbinding performances" and "timeless classics"? Cate Pisaroni, founder of Lenny's Studio and representative for artists like Joyce DiDonato, Ailyn Pérez, Christian Van Horn, Quinn Kelsey, Stephen Costello, Evan Rogister and many more offers a refreshingly honest take on where arts marketing falls short – and how we can take it to the next level.
Cate brings a wealth of experience to this conversation, sharing how meaningful content emerges when marketers step outside of their silos and immerse themselves in the artistic process. "I feel sometimes the repertoire is so vast and there's so much amazing music... we all benefit from being part of the process and learning more about them," she explains. This philosophy drives her approach to helping classical artists connect authentically with audiences.
The discussion reveals Cate's innovative marketing strategies, including the creation of the Liedstadt Festival, a festival she co-founded alongside tenor Julian Prégardien and musician-project designer Kian Jazdi. Liedstadt is a celebration of song that launched without a marketing budget, yet it managed to flood Hamburg with 56 concerts across 15 venues in a single day. By bringing performances to non-traditional spaces like bars, hospitals, and libraries, they removed barriers of intimidation and drew in younger audiences eager to experience classical music in accessible 20-minute segments.
Beyond event marketing, Cate shares insights on what makes compelling visual communication, from concert posters that capture the spirit of a performance through thoughtful imagery and typography, to social media strategies that balance curation with spontaneity. Her advice on influencer collaborations emphasizes genuine connection over transactional relationships, while her thoughts on community engagement challenge organizations to reimagine how audiences experience performances.
Whether you're a marketer, artist, or arts administrator, Cate's candid perspective offers practical wisdom for creating more authentic, engaging connections with audiences. Her parting advice? "Trust your intuition more, because it's one of the things that is underestimated."
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Elizabeth Bowman (00:00):
Hi, I'm Elizabeth Bowman and welcome to
the Scene Room.
Today I have Cate Pisaroni here.
She is the creative directorand founder of Lenny's Studio, a
company that represents reallyamazing artists like Joyce
DiDonato, christian Van Horn,Stephen Costello the list really
goes on.
Check their website atlennystudio.
(00:21):
com.
Cate and I always have reallyfun conversations about arts,
marketing, public relations,digital media strategy, and this
is no exception.
We had a really great timechatting here today.
If you're enjoying the podcast,please do not hesitate to share
it, like it, review it, do allof those things.
It helps us keep inviting theseinfluential and innovative arts
(00:46):
leaders to come and talk to us.
So thank you for anything youcan do and let's get to it.
Cate, welcome to the scene room.
Thanks for coming.
Thanks for having me.
So you were my first guest onthe Opera Glasses podcast when I
was editor-in-chief of OperaCanada magazine, so it's really
(01:07):
lovely to talk to you again, andthis time on my next podcast.
Cate Pisaroni (01:12):
I'm super excited .
Elizabeth Bowman (01:13):
Since our last chat.
That was, by the way, anyonelistening.
You can check out the OperaGlasses podcast.
It's on all major streamingplatforms as well, and our
interview was in October 2022.
Since then, a lot has happenedIn terms of marketing trends.
What stands out to you?
Cate Pisaroni (01:31):
I feel like our industry is changing weekly
these days, so I don't know whathas changed in the last three
years.
Perhaps there's more of a focuson storytelling.
I think the industry is tryingmore new things, which I think
is exciting, but I feel we'reliving in this kind of strange
world where not enough ischanging and everything is
changing at the same time, soperhaps some things are not
(01:52):
changing for the better.
I feel that some venues andpresenters in Europe, for
instance, they're trying a lotof things that are very
zeitgeisty and that they somehowtry to somehow ask people to do
more fun videos about certainaspects of attending a
performance.
It's a good intention, but it'snot always particularly
interesting.
You know, when you do a videowith a very cool guy and the
(02:14):
only thing he talked about iswhen you're allowed to applaud
and that the movement of asymphony is called movement and
not song, and what are yousupposed to wear and how you
should surprise your cough, Ifeel like it's an opportunity
missed to actually communicatesomething that has more meaning
and that conveys more substanceand that shares our passion for
this industry versus what areyou supposed to wear and when
(02:36):
are you allowed to cough.
Elizabeth Bowman (02:37):
I guess that follows into my next question
for you, which is what are thechallenges you see arts
organizations and individualartists facing right now in
terms of digital marketing andbranding?
Cate Pisaroni (02:49):
I feel that there's not enough collaboration
between the artists teams andthe organizations, possibly
other players.
I feel like there's not enoughcollaboration within
organizations.
I mean, bear in mind that Irepresent only artists and not
institutions but from what I'vegathered, I don't feel that the
marketing team or the digitalmarketing communication whatever
(03:09):
you want to call them pressteam they somehow everybody
functions in their own silos andI think more interesting
stories emerge when the pressteam and the digital marketing
team is more part of therehearsal process, because I
feel like a lot of interestingcontent can be captured in the
moment and things would feellivelier and somehow more
tangible for people Like I.
(03:30):
As a communication personworking for a lot of artists, I
very often attend rehearsalswhenever it's allowed and
appreciated and appropriate.
I like to plan in advance aboutcontent that I would like to
share, but then I also like tobe inspired in the moment
because there are things thatjust that you could never
foresee that happen right wheninteresting parts of the
rehearsal process wheresomething funny happens or where
(03:52):
somebody says something reallyprofound.
Unless you're in the room atthis particular moment, there's
no way you know about it.
And I feel sometimes therepertoire is so vast and
there's so much amazing musicand so many great pieces and I
feel that we all benefit frombeing part of the process and
learning more about them.
I mean, I've gone to the operasince I was a small child and I
(04:13):
would say that I go to the operaprobably three times a week and
there are still many pieces Idon't know as well as I want to
and I should, and everyproduction is different, Every
cast is different.
I feel like people would bespending more time in the same
room.
More interesting stories wouldemerge that then would engage
the fan community in a morecompelling way, possibly.
Elizabeth Bowman (04:31):
Yeah, I definitely agree with that, and
the more we can spider out thatcontent as well on the social
feeds.
and you have so many artistsworking with your company that
you could be encouraging thosecollaborations literal
collaborations, like onInstagram and TikTok and all
these things, where you areinviting that company to
(04:52):
collaborate with your contentand they're inviting you to
collaborate on their content.
And we have, for the past Iwould say I don't know five, six
years there's been this focuson artists with a lot of
followers and those being thefocus of the collaborations.
(05:12):
But I think, with the emergingartists that are coming up who
might not have as many followers, there's still a huge amount of
engagement to be had with thesmaller audiences, and those are
often overlooked by companies.
Cate Pisaroni (05:26):
Absolutely.
I feel, generally speaking,there's not enough collaboration
collab posts between theorganizations and the artists,
For instance.
I mean major opera companies inthe US never do collab posts
with the artists, and I feelit's an opportunity lost.
And, like you say, everythingis about engagement.
Currently, on Instagram, it'sprioritized by the platform and
very often, often, people with alot of following do not have
(05:48):
great engagement rates, and viceversa.
So I feel like if we would allcollaborate with as many people
as possible.
Sometimes people with verylittle following have great
engagement rates and you knowtheir fan community shares their
content everywhere and I thinkthat should not be overlooked.
It's a great opportunityactually.
Elizabeth Bowman (06:05):
With that in mind, I wanted to ask you about
some innovative success storiesin terms of the campaigns that
you've done
Cate Pisaroni (06:13):
, so a year, and a half ago,, a tenor and one of
my artists and a friend, askedme whether I would like to start
a festival with him.
We're both obviously verypassionate about and share that
both of our fathers arerenowned Lied performers.
So we have grown up with thisrepertoire.
We love it.
Lied is a little bit theproblem child of the classical
(06:33):
music industry and the Liedseries across the planet are cut
more and more because it'ssupposedly not accessible.
The content is difficult,nobody wants to hear it, the
audience gets older and olderand since I do like to do things
that are anti-cyclical, I feelthe problem child of classical
music is exactly how I wouldlike to spend my time and how I
(06:54):
would like to try to somehow seeif there is an audience that we
haven't found yet that could beinterested in song repertoire.
So he asked me whether we wouldjust start this in Hamburg,
because he felt so inspired bythe city and we should just try
to somehow put on five events orsix events.
I said absolutely great, let'sdo that.
We ended up having 56 concertson day one.
(07:15):
It was our first day of thefestival, but it was also our
marketing strategy to create somuch buzz in the city on the
first day of the festival, thatwould then entice people to come
to the other events for thefollowing 10 days.
So we had 16 venues where weperformed mini concerts of 20
minutes each, four times in arow.
The weather was amazing therewas no typical Hamburg rain, and
(07:35):
people participated in many ofthese events, so they went from
a hotel to a bar, to a library,to a hospital, to a museum.
We had all these differentvibes of venues and it somehow
flooded the city with songs andwith excitement, and a lot of
people shared this on socialmedia, which really helped us
create a momentum, and the localTV station supported this, and
(07:59):
the radio station, so theycovered this as well, because it
was new and fresh.
And we tried to do it in thiskind of way where, not having a
marketing budget, we had toactivate all of our network and
ask many, many people if theywould somehow do us a favor and
collaborate and, to our completesurprise, all of the artists we
asked and all of the mediapartners said yes, let's do it,
(08:19):
and the biggest newspaper ran abig feature on it.
So it was a fun endeavor.
Elizabeth Bowman (08:24):
That underscores the need in our
industry for experiential arts.
Like we need to have anexperience.
We need to go out and have anall-encompassing and different
experience everyone.
So I love that because peoplecould go to different venues
based on their interests andexperience all these different
(08:46):
pieces and understand them intheir own way, and that's what
art is.
Cate Pisaroni (08:51):
And we also don't want to overwhelm people and I
feel sometimes we forget thatthese huge temples of music can
be intimidating buildings andpeople don't really know the
repertoire, they don't know whatthey would like and they don't
want to commit to an hour and ahalf of their time when they
think it could potentially beboring or something like that.
So I think if we bring themusic to non-musical places or
(09:12):
traditionally non-musical places, it is a way to put people in
touch with music in a new wayand in a non-intimidating way.
And we always talked a littlebit about the repertoire and why
this song is interesting and Idon't know something
biographical about Schubert'slife when he sang that and tried
to incorporate composers whoare relevant to the city of
Hamburg, etc.
The response was reallyoverwhelmingly excited and our
(09:33):
audience was young and many ofthem came to many events of the
festival for these 10 days.
Elizabeth Bowman (09:38):
And it opens the door for them to then move
on beyond that to the symphonyor the opera or any type of
classical art form.
So really it is a gateway.
Exactly so, congratulations,that's wonderful.
And just let me know what theURL is for everyone listening so
they can visit and check it out.
(09:58):
It's liedstadt.
de L-I-E-D-S-T-A-D-T dot E.
Exactly For those non-Germanspeakers Exactly.
Cate Pisaroni (10:07):
You can follow us on Instagram and we're planning
further iterations of thefestival in Weimar and Leipzig
this year.
There are many other satelliteevents of this festival coming.
Elizabeth Bowman (10:15):
What are your thoughts on influencer marketing
within the arts and we sort oftouched on that earlier but
specifically like, what are yourthoughts on influencer
marketing with influencers maybeoutside of our industry or
within, and the role that theycould play or should play within
our industry?
What do you think?
Cate Pisaroni (10:36):
I think there's a huge potential there, but, as
with everything in communication, I feel like it needs to be
genuine and I think this storyis more successful when people
are genuinely excited about thisart form.
Just asking an influencer topost something for you may not
resonate with anybody.
I think it's much better tobring them to the opera to show
them some behind the scenesthings, some cool things.
(10:59):
I mean, opera houses are verycool venues and they have a lot
of energy and I often feel theyhave some kind of I don't know
if I would say sacred energy,but they do have some kind of
incredible vibe that you canfeel when you enter these spaces
.
And I think if people aregenuinely excited and have
experienced a performance andhave talked about the show with
(11:19):
the artist, then they canperhaps place in some marketing
materials on their channels.
That feels genuine, because Ifeel on social media we are
constantly being sold somethingand people are tired of that too
.
Sometimes they just want tohave a good story and not be
bombarded with posts thatbasically center around come to
that show, buy a ticket for thatand buy my new album.
(11:40):
Yes, they should also do that,but I feel it's more exciting
when the artists actually sharesomething that is personal to
them, and I feel more successfulposts on social media can
happen when artists arevulnerable and when they
actually share something, and Ifeel the educational part of it
should never be forgotten.
We all have something to learnand it doesn't have to be
academic and boring.
It can be very interesting andexciting.
Elizabeth Bowman (12:02):
For sure.
I think it would be good to seemore cross-pollination between
influencers coming, beinginvited to come to the opera,
the symphony, yes, concerts ingeneral, with the idea that they
would not just post a pictureof them being there but, like
(12:22):
you say, to drive a deeperconnection to it, like how was
their experience there?
What were top three things thatthey enjoyed about that
experience?
In terms of what kind ofcollaboration Although I think
it's quite expensive to getthese types of people to bring
them to the opera or whateverbut I don't think it should be,
(12:43):
because I think that the valueproposition for that influencer
to be at the opera or thesymphony or a concert is really
high, because it's a verycultured event and it shows that
they're interested inexperiencing culture.
So what could go wrong there?
Cate Pisaroni (12:58):
But I also feel like maybe the focus shouldn't
just be on the people who havethe most amount of followers,
and cross-pollination is notjust an Instagram post.
I feel there should be morecross-pollination throughout the
creative process.
So one of the things thatLenny's Studio does quite
frequently lately is we reachout to fashion designers to see
if they want to collaborate withan artist on a photo shoot or
(13:20):
whatever.
So therefore, they would getphotos of artists in their
clothes and attend performancesand we would reach a new
audience with these kinds ofcontent being produced, and that
very often happens without anymonetary exchange.
Elizabeth Bowman (13:33):
Yeah, when I first started working with
mezzo-soprano Wallace Junta, shewas the face of a bridal design
line, which was really useful,actually, because they were
designing a lot of gowns and shewas being photographed all the
time in these beautiful dresses,so that was like a beautiful
part.
I think that there shoulddefinitely be more of that,
(13:56):
because they can imagine any,they can put an opera singer in
anything, because they'll wearwild things that nobody would
wear at a gala Like it's, thingsthat are visual, that are art,
and it can go beyond what youwould see on a fashion runway
even, of course exactly, andmost fashion designers are
(14:18):
incredibly inspired by theartistry of the singers and how
they communicate and how theydescribe certain roles that they
portray and they love beingpart of the process.
Cate Pisaroni (14:27):
So I feel like everybody benefits from these
things and it's more interestingthan just saying, okay, there's
a price tag of X thousanddollars to make this
collaboration possible, becausethis way everybody benefits from
the creative energy in the room, definitely.
Elizabeth Bowman (14:40):
Okay.
So the other day I askedChatGPT to roast arts marketers
and it came up with thishilarious line of text, which I
may or may not share in a reel,because it really does hit close
to home, but anyway, I want toask you some bits around what it
presented to me.
It talked about, for instance,the overused taglines in arts
(15:02):
marketing, such as the timelessclassic, a must-see event
experience, the magic for onenight only, spellbinding
performance, a masterpiece ofinsert emotion here.
Anyway, with all of this said,what tips would you give to
avoid falling into these traps?
Cate Pisaroni (15:24):
Again, I think we should be more specific in our
communication because we shouldthink about wording that can
only apply to this particularperformance, because that feels
extremely generic and I feel alot of language being used
around opera doesn't reallycommunicate what this is about
and I feel sometimes it's moresensationalist than the piece
lends itself to.
So maybe more time needs to bespent in knowing what it is that
(15:45):
we're actually trying tocommunicate, and maybe the
artists I have worked with somany artists who are incredibly
eloquent in describing thejourney of their character in an
opera and I feel if there weresome kind of roundtable
conversation with artists forone hour in the course of a
production, we would find otherwords to describe what we are
trying to get people to see.
Elizabeth Bowman (16:05):
That's a great idea, the idea of almost the
speed dating setup with themarketers, where each artist, no
matter how big or small theircharacter is, can go around in a
five-minute rotation with thevarious marketers and everyone
can take notes about what wassaid, and then at the end the
(16:26):
marketers can go back andcompare notes to what they've
experienced and I bet you theywould come out with something
really interesting 100%.
Cate Pisaroni (16:35):
And I feel that for some reason, marketing and
PR have a bad reputation, andthat is not fair, although I
understand where it comes from,because very often it is this
kind of language that you justmentioned that seems extremely
generic and that does nothingfor anybody.
But I feel good PR and goodmarketing stems from excellent
storytelling, and that is acraft that cannot be
(16:58):
underestimated, and I think thegift of the marketer would be to
gather all of these stories andall of these impressions and
craft a narrative from that, andI would love to see that happen
.
I think it could be extremelyexciting.
Elizabeth Bowman (17:09):
I hope someone will do that and report back to
this podcast and somehow say itwent great.
Cate Pisaroni (17:15):
Yeah, also, artists are very creative people
.
I mean, I think we should Idon't know, we should have more
of an exchange about thesethings, also about the kind of
content that's called socialmedia content that opera
companies are producing.
I feel like the artists dotheir own thing and the
organization do their own thing,but there's too little overlap,
right.
Elizabeth Bowman (17:31):
Following the same thread, there's the concert
poster or the event poster andoftentimes again, you'll see
generic stock photos used, or anoveremphasis of sponsorship
logos, inconsistent typographyor just like a whole lot of
headshots.
Let's talk about the poster.
(17:53):
What are key elements that youwant to see on a poster?
Cate Pisaroni (17:56):
I want to see a very engaging, striking,
memorable image, and a headshotunder no circumstances can
qualify, because headshots arevery often old, it's always the
same cropping, it's always thiskind of passport picture type
frame.
I want to see some imagery thatconveys the spirit of the
concert.
If it's something extremelyvibrant in program, I would like
(18:18):
to see that reflected in theimagery.
If this is still a glassconcert, it should look very
different than RachmaninoffPiano Concerto or Prokofiev
Symphony or an opera gala, and Ifeel like we very often fail to
understand the power of imageryand how much can be
communicated through color,through contrast, through
(18:38):
composition in an image.
So I want to see very engagingimagery.
Then I want to see very largetitle placement on the poster
with interesting choices oftypography that are legible but
that also stylistically conveythe spirit of the concert.
Date and time would be nice.
Ticket prices need to be on aposter.
A QR code needs to be on theposter.
I mean, since COVID, everybodyknows how to use those.
(18:59):
Perhaps a press quote should beon there if it pertains to this
particular artist performingthis music.
All of the participatingartists should be on there.
I don't feel that we need tinythumbnail images of all of the
participants, because that justmakes the visual of the poster
weak and adds very little to it.
So I'd rather have interestingplacement of typography and list
(19:20):
everyone Less is more I feelthe other have interesting
placement of typography and listeveryone Less is more I feel.
The other day I walked byCarnegie Hall and there's a huge
disconnect between the postersthat are produced by Carnegie
Hall and posters that arecurrently on display that are
reflecting independent peoplepresenting their concerts at
Carnegie Hall.
It's very often the posters arenot compelling, very washed out
and have way too muchinformation on them.
Elizabeth Bowman (19:41):
Yeah, it's interesting that they don't have
a style chart for those cominginto Carnegie Hall.
The other presenters shouldhave to follow, like almost from
a brand perspective, if thoseposters are along the building,
Because I mean, we all recognizethe Carnegie Hall brand but I
guess they don't want tonecessarily associate with who
(20:02):
are going in there, because theywant to make it clear that
they're not presenting.
But, it's still nice on thebuilding to see all of the
Carnegie brand.
Cate Pisaroni (20:10):
I think there should be a style guide perhaps,
because then I think I mean, ofcourse there needs to be a
visual distinction by theconcert presented by Carnegie
Hall and by others, but I feelthere's a lack of consistency
that just makes it veryconfusing visually speaking.
Elizabeth Bowman (20:22):
Maybe if they had a contrasting color for the
frame.
Cate Pisaroni (20:27):
Yes, exactly.
Elizabeth Bowman (20:27):
Indicated that it wasn't presented by them.
Anyway, they're doing just fine.
Cate Pisaroni (20:32):
I think so.
Elizabeth Bowman (20:33):
No, I agree with all that you say there.
I do think that allorganizations, no matter how big
or small and likely I'mtargeting this to smaller
organizations should really mapout their style guides, like
what their fonts are, what theircolors are, and be consistent
on their concert poster, butalso on all of the materials
(20:54):
that go out, because oftentimesyou see just a whole lot of
different text being used, evenif you read through their
Instagram thumbnails and thatkind of thing, and it can be
confusing for the user becausethey don't necessarily recognize
it as a brand.
That's like low hanging fruitfor an organization.
Cate Pisaroni (21:10):
I think so.
I think all printed materialshould go through the same
process of following the styleguide 100%.
I feel on Instagram there is atrend towards less curated feeds
, because I feel like a feedshould be curated, but loosely
curated.
I do consider what I post, inwhich sequence, and what that
looks like and what the colorscheme looks like of two
(21:32):
pictures next to each other, andthat perhaps the cropping
should not be identical on everysingle thumbnail so that
there's some visual variety,right when you have full body
shots and then you haveclose-ups and then you have
perhaps a picture of the set, sothat it's overall a nice visual
composition and that you don'thave seven shades of red next to
each other and they allinterfere with each other.
These are somehow verylow-hanging fruits.
(21:54):
I feel that the time whenthings were very curated, like
an O'Bridel photographer's feedor something, where it always
follows the same formula, wherethere's I don't know some text
in the middle and then twopictures on either side in the
same color scheme, that feelsvery non-spontaneous and I think
that looks very pleasing whenyou go on somebody's feed, but
it becomes very predictable andboring and I think what people
(22:16):
like on social media nowadays issomething that's fun and that's
unexpected and it catches youreye and people are constantly
scrolling, so there needs to besome kind of thing to make you
stop.
Elizabeth Bowman (22:26):
There's an element of, like you say, the
emphasis on storytelling islarge now, which is great,
because that's way moreinteresting.
I guess it's a matter ofpeppering in those spontaneous
posts and collabs along withyour branded content, so that as
they're going through this, thescrolling, or scrolling through
(22:47):
your feed, that they canunderstand that this is for this
institution and and that thesepeople also collaborate with
artists and they do this andthey do that, and they can sort
of identify via the scroll.
It's sort of like if you'rescrolling and you don't see the
story, then you know it's notright, absolutely 100%.
Cate Pisaroni (23:09):
I think perhaps one of the ways where more
visual continuity could beensured is if reels could have a
small watermark right on thebottom, left or top right or
wherever you want to positionthat that's the logo of the
institution.
That would make thisimmediately recognizable.
Perhaps that would be a way todo that.
Other than that, I don't feellike all content should follow a
(23:30):
formula.
I think that's boring, orperhaps for only a particular
part of the season or something.
I've seen this once, um, onsome fashion designers feeds
where everything is green oreverything is red for 20 posts
and then there's a new vibe orsomething.
Elizabeth Bowman (23:46):
I guess if you're a paint company, yes.
Cate Pisaroni (23:49):
If you're Pantone , then you can do that.
Can it be the color of the year?
Elizabeth Bowman (23:54):
Yeah, I really didn't like this year's color
of the year.
Me neither.
Cate Pisaroni (23:58):
Yeah.
Elizabeth Bowman (23:59):
Not into that.
Okay, if you're not sure aboutwhat that is, you can check out
Pantone's color of the year.
Is it what?
Chocolate mousse?
Cate Pisaroni (24:07):
Yes, I really wish they had that in brown set.
No one ever Exactly.
Elizabeth Bowman (24:11):
Okay, let's talk about the social media
takeovers, because oftentimes acompany will decide oh, we're
going to let artists do socialmedia takeovers, which is great.
We were talking at thebeginning about the lack of
collaboration between artist andcompany, and so social media
takeovers should, in principle,according to that, be a great
(24:32):
idea, and they are a great idea.
But obviously they need to beplanned, and oftentimes you'll
see an artist just post aboutlike a hundred different stories
about nothing, and that, Ithink, is a bit of a detriment
to the whole idea ofcollaboration.
But I want to know yourcomments on that.
Cate Pisaroni (24:49):
Instagram takeovers are a little bit passe
.
I think we've all seen this toomany times and we've seen it
done poorly too many times, sothere's fatigue around this
format.
I feel generally the sameapplies to an Instagram takeover
as it does to a photo shootthat I organize.
Whenever I organize a photoshoot for an artist, I have a
mood board and a plan of contentthat I want to get and about
(25:12):
the kinds of looks that I wantto accomplish, and all of that
is planned in advance, and thenhalf of that plan is thrown
overboard because inspirationtakes over in the moment and you
take it into another directionand sometimes the most
interesting things emerge fromthat.
That being said, the plan stillneeds to be intact before you
do that, otherwise theinspiration has less fertile
(25:33):
ground to grow from, I think.
So I think for an Instagramtakeover, it depends on the kind
of artist who does it, and Ithink there's too little
consideration being put intopre-prepping some content so
that you have some things toshare that are edited and that
are high quality, and then youare inspired in the moment.
But if you want to dointerviews with artists and
(25:53):
colleagues during the lead uptime for the show, there's not
enough time for people to getready during the lead-up time
for the show.
There's not enough time forpeople to get ready, do
interesting interviews, edit thevideos and post them in real
time.
So I feel at least half of thecontent should be pre-prepared
right that you can then throwoverboard if more interesting
things come up.
But, generally speaking, moreprep time.
Also, I feel like if thetakeover is by Don Giovanni, it
(26:17):
should be in Don Giovanni's vibe, versus if the takeover is by
Zelina, should be very differentin style and I feel it's become
very interchangeable right,where it's like pictures of
colleagues hugging backstage,which is lovely, but it's we've
seen it.
Elizabeth Bowman (26:33):
I have orchestrated a few takeovers for
artist clients and I completelyagree, like you got to pre-plan
the content and often I wouldrequest, like the fifth
performance day, becauseobviously that allows you to get
a lot of that pre-footage, likesome of the bows and stuff like
that.
Yes, oh, spoiler alert, guys,it might not be the bow from
(26:56):
that day, it's going on theInstagram.
Cate Pisaroni (26:58):
You gave it away.
Elizabeth Bowman (26:59):
I just gave it away.
But another thing that Ithought was useful was thinking
about again about thiscollaboration thing.
I think I did.
I helped Amber Braid with acollaboration when she was
working at the Canadian OperaCompany one time and I reached
out to CBC, the CanadianBroadcast Corporation, to see if
(27:20):
, you know, they would beinterested in showing a
backstage tour, and so weincorporated that into the
takeover.
So there was, you know, apartnership with CBC and the
backstage tour and that kind ofthing.
So it's good to think of allthe partnerships that could be
related into that takeover sothat it looks high quality but
(27:42):
also like high spider potential.
Exactly, yeah, and I mean youcould do so many things.
I mean you could, like theartists are going to cafes
regularly or they're working outat a gym nearby.
You know they could collab withthose places.
Cate Pisaroni (28:00):
Absolutely, I want to see more of that.
I want to see more of that too.
Also, I want to see artistslive their lives right and
somehow expanding their networkin an organic way where they can
I don't know have moreinteraction with the dancers or
with somebody who has an artgallery, and I want to see more
pop-up concerts in an artgallery.
(28:20):
I want to see more activitiesin schools.
I want to see I don't know, Iwant to see a more lively
community where opera singers donot just hang out with other
opera singers.
Elizabeth Bowman (28:30):
Yeah, that's great.
That's great advice.
I just interviewed Alex Sarian,the author of the Audacity of
Relevance, and his episode isairing the week before your
episode.
And you know there's so much inthat book about the importance
of community and just in generallike thinking about that
(28:52):
community.
And for opera singers it'schallenging because they're
always traveling the world.
But you really got to placeyourself into the city that
you're in and see what isrelevant to that particular
community and I think that willresonate, like you say.
Cate Pisaroni (29:02):
I think community is very important.
It's a word that is used a lotand it's not always fully.
It shouldn't be tokenism.
And I think when we talk aboutcommunity, we should also look
at audience experiences.
What is it like to go to anopera house?
Who greets you?
What happens after aperformance?
And I think there's room forimprovement to make the simple
experience more enjoyable.
(29:22):
I mean, if we look at Cirque duSoleil and what that experience
is like when you arrive versusin an opera company, I think we
have some fun that could be hadbefore shows and after shows.
Or a lot of concert venues haveafter parties, which I think is
a fabulous idea, where peoplecould just have a drink and I
don't know, meet some new people, exchange their thoughts about
the concert, and I think artistsshould be part of this as well.
(29:45):
Right, when the Q&A is notalways on stage, where there's
once again this barrier betweenthe auditorium and the stage, I
think it would be nice to havesome kind of time to mingle a
little bit and to talk to theartists.
That is not just an autographrequest.
Elizabeth Bowman (29:58):
Yeah, that's a great idea.
And even if you had apartnership with various
businesses around that operahouse or symphony hall, you know
where, you could say, at 11o'clock we're having the after
party at this place, likewhoever come one come all, I
don't know Exactly.
I mean, not everyone wants todo that and those that do want
(30:21):
to do that will feel moreconnected and that's wonderful.
And if it is packed and crazy,that's great.
Cate Pisaroni (30:27):
Wonderful, the more the merrier.
Elizabeth Bowman (30:29):
If it's hard to get into, it's amazing, you
know, and then you can figureout ways to maximize that
engagement.
Cate Pisaroni (30:36):
Absolutely.
Elizabeth Bowman (30:36):
Always great ideas, Cate, we try right that
engagement.
Absolutely Always great ,C ate,we try right.
We try To close this interviewout.
I want to ask what advice wouldyou give to your younger self
who hadn't started out yet inthis whole crazy arts marketing
business?
Cate Pisaroni (30:53):
Trust your intuition more, because it's one
of the things that isunderestimated and so much of
stage life and also of the livesof people who work with people
who are on the stage isinfluenced, should be influenced
by intuition, becauseintuitively, we know more than
we give ourselves credit for.
(31:13):
When is an image good?
When is a composition good?
Is the color scheme right?
What is the story of this image?
You know, I shot a photo shootthe other day with Joyce
DiDonato for her new album forDido and Aeneas that is going to
come out, and we had a veryfunny idea about what this cover
could be like, because we'veall seen Dido in a gown and this
(31:34):
is what we didn't want tocommunicate.
So we came up with somethingthat I can't reveal yet, but I
think it's going to be a veryfresh take on what Dido looks
like towards the end of thatopera and what she communicates
and what the vibe of that is.
So I think, trust yourintuition.
We all have a lot of educationand a lot of the things that
inform our intuition have beenstudied, like we have learned
(31:58):
what makes a good composition,etc.
But sometimes we have to breakthe rules and we have to trust
our intuition and sometimes wesecond guess that and we then
stray and it's a mistake Greatadvice.
Elizabeth Bowman (32:10):
Cate, thanks for coming.
It's always great to talk toyou and I'm so glad we got to do
this again.
Thank you so much.
Hi, I'm Elizabeth Bowman and welcome to
the Scene Room.
Today I have Cate Pisaroni here.
She is the creative directorand founder of Lenny's Studio, a
company that represents reallyamazing artists like Joyce
DiDonato, christian Van Horn,Stephen Costello the list really
goes on.
Check their website atlennystudio.
(00:21):
com.
Cate and I always have reallyfun conversations about arts,
marketing, public relations,digital media strategy, and this
is no exception.
We had a really great timechatting here today.
If you're enjoying the podcast,please do not hesitate to share
it, like it, review it, do allof those things.
It helps us keep inviting theseinfluential and innovative arts
(00:46):
leaders to come and talk to us.
So thank you for anything youcan do and let's get to it.
Cate, welcome to the scene room.
Thanks for coming.
Thanks for having me.
So you were my first guest onthe Opera Glasses podcast when I
was editor-in-chief of OperaCanada magazine, so it's really
(01:07):
lovely to talk to you again, andthis time on my next podcast.
Cate Pisaroni (01:12):
I'm super excited .
Elizabeth Bowman (01:13):
Since our last chat.
That was, by the way, anyonelistening.
You can check out the OperaGlasses podcast.
It's on all major streamingplatforms as well, and our
interview was in October 2022.
Since then, a lot has happenedIn terms of marketing trends.
What stands out to you?
Cate Pisaroni (01:31):
I feel like our industry is changing weekly
these days, so I don't know whathas changed in the last three
years.
Perhaps there's more of a focuson storytelling.
I think the industry is tryingmore new things, which I think
is exciting, but I feel we'reliving in this kind of strange
world where not enough ischanging and everything is
changing at the same time, soperhaps some things are not
(01:52):
changing for the better.
I feel that some venues andpresenters in Europe, for
instance, they're trying a lotof things that are very
zeitgeisty and that they somehowtry to somehow ask people to do
more fun videos about certainaspects of attending a
performance.
It's a good intention, but it'snot always particularly
interesting.
You know, when you do a videowith a very cool guy and the
(02:14):
only thing he talked about iswhen you're allowed to applaud
and that the movement of asymphony is called movement and
not song, and what are yousupposed to wear and how you
should surprise your cough, Ifeel like it's an opportunity
missed to actually communicatesomething that has more meaning
and that conveys more substanceand that shares our passion for
this industry versus what areyou supposed to wear and when
(02:36):
are you allowed to cough.
Elizabeth Bowman (02:37):
I guess that follows into my next question
for you, which is what are thechallenges you see arts
organizations and individualartists facing right now in
terms of digital marketing andbranding?
Cate Pisaroni (02:49):
I feel that there's not enough collaboration
between the artists teams andthe organizations, possibly
other players.
I feel like there's not enoughcollaboration within
organizations.
I mean, bear in mind that Irepresent only artists and not
institutions but from what I'vegathered, I don't feel that the
marketing team or the digitalmarketing communication whatever
(03:09):
you want to call them pressteam they somehow everybody
functions in their own silos andI think more interesting
stories emerge when the pressteam and the digital marketing
team is more part of therehearsal process, because I
feel like a lot of interestingcontent can be captured in the
moment and things would feellivelier and somehow more
tangible for people Like I.
(03:30):
As a communication personworking for a lot of artists, I
very often attend rehearsalswhenever it's allowed and
appreciated and appropriate.
I like to plan in advance aboutcontent that I would like to
share, but then I also like tobe inspired in the moment
because there are things thatjust that you could never
foresee that happen right wheninteresting parts of the
rehearsal process wheresomething funny happens or where
(03:52):
somebody says something reallyprofound.
Unless you're in the room atthis particular moment, there's
no way you know about it.
And I feel sometimes therepertoire is so vast and
there's so much amazing musicand so many great pieces and I
feel that we all benefit frombeing part of the process and
learning more about them.
I mean, I've gone to the operasince I was a small child and I
(04:13):
would say that I go to the operaprobably three times a week and
there are still many pieces Idon't know as well as I want to
and I should, and everyproduction is different, Every
cast is different.
I feel like people would bespending more time in the same
room.
More interesting stories wouldemerge that then would engage
the fan community in a morecompelling way, possibly.
Elizabeth Bowman (04:31):
Yeah, I definitely agree with that, and
the more we can spider out thatcontent as well on the social
feeds.
and you have so many artistsworking with your company that
you could be encouraging thosecollaborations literal
collaborations, like onInstagram and TikTok and all
these things, where you areinviting that company to
(04:52):
collaborate with your contentand they're inviting you to
collaborate on their content.
And we have, for the past Iwould say I don't know five, six
years there's been this focuson artists with a lot of
followers and those being thefocus of the collaborations.
(05:12):
But I think, with the emergingartists that are coming up who
might not have as many followers, there's still a huge amount of
engagement to be had with thesmaller audiences, and those are
often overlooked by companies.
Cate Pisaroni (05:26):
Absolutely.
I feel, generally speaking,there's not enough collaboration
collab posts between theorganizations and the artists,
For instance.
I mean major opera companies inthe US never do collab posts
with the artists, and I feelit's an opportunity lost.
And, like you say, everythingis about engagement.
Currently, on Instagram, it'sprioritized by the platform and
very often, often, people with alot of following do not have
(05:48):
great engagement rates, and viceversa.
So I feel like if we would allcollaborate with as many people
as possible.
Sometimes people with verylittle following have great
engagement rates and you knowtheir fan community shares their
content everywhere and I thinkthat should not be overlooked.
It's a great opportunityactually.
Elizabeth Bowman (06:05):
With that in mind, I wanted to ask you about
some innovative success storiesin terms of the campaigns that
you've done
Cate Pisaroni (06:13):
, so a year, and a half ago,, a tenor and one of
my artists and a friend, askedme whether I would like to start
a festival with him.
We're both obviously verypassionate about and share that
both of our fathers arerenowned Lied performers.
So we have grown up with thisrepertoire.
We love it.
Lied is a little bit theproblem child of the classical
(06:33):
music industry and the Liedseries across the planet are cut
more and more because it'ssupposedly not accessible.
The content is difficult,nobody wants to hear it, the
audience gets older and olderand since I do like to do things
that are anti-cyclical, I feelthe problem child of classical
music is exactly how I wouldlike to spend my time and how I
(06:54):
would like to try to somehow seeif there is an audience that we
haven't found yet that could beinterested in song repertoire.
So he asked me whether we wouldjust start this in Hamburg,
because he felt so inspired bythe city and we should just try
to somehow put on five events orsix events.
I said absolutely great, let'sdo that.
We ended up having 56 concertson day one.
(07:15):
It was our first day of thefestival, but it was also our
marketing strategy to create somuch buzz in the city on the
first day of the festival, thatwould then entice people to come
to the other events for thefollowing 10 days.
So we had 16 venues where weperformed mini concerts of 20
minutes each, four times in arow.
The weather was amazing therewas no typical Hamburg rain, and
(07:35):
people participated in many ofthese events, so they went from
a hotel to a bar, to a library,to a hospital, to a museum.
We had all these differentvibes of venues and it somehow
flooded the city with songs andwith excitement, and a lot of
people shared this on socialmedia, which really helped us
create a momentum, and the localTV station supported this, and
(07:59):
the radio station, so theycovered this as well, because it
was new and fresh.
And we tried to do it in thiskind of way where, not having a
marketing budget, we had toactivate all of our network and
ask many, many people if theywould somehow do us a favor and
collaborate and, to our completesurprise, all of the artists we
asked and all of the mediapartners said yes, let's do it,
(08:19):
and the biggest newspaper ran abig feature on it.
So it was a fun endeavor.
Elizabeth Bowman (08:24):
That underscores the need in our
industry for experiential arts.
Like we need to have anexperience.
We need to go out and have anall-encompassing and different
experience everyone.
So I love that because peoplecould go to different venues
based on their interests andexperience all these different
(08:46):
pieces and understand them intheir own way, and that's what
art is.
Cate Pisaroni (08:51):
And we also don't want to overwhelm people and I
feel sometimes we forget thatthese huge temples of music can
be intimidating buildings andpeople don't really know the
repertoire, they don't know whatthey would like and they don't
want to commit to an hour and ahalf of their time when they
think it could potentially beboring or something like that.
So I think if we bring themusic to non-musical places or
(09:12):
traditionally non-musical places, it is a way to put people in
touch with music in a new wayand in a non-intimidating way.
And we always talked a littlebit about the repertoire and why
this song is interesting and Idon't know something
biographical about Schubert'slife when he sang that and tried
to incorporate composers whoare relevant to the city of
Hamburg, etc.
The response was reallyoverwhelmingly excited and our
(09:33):
audience was young and many ofthem came to many events of the
festival for these 10 days.
Elizabeth Bowman (09:38):
And it opens the door for them to then move
on beyond that to the symphonyor the opera or any type of
classical art form.
So really it is a gateway.
Exactly so, congratulations,that's wonderful.
And just let me know what theURL is for everyone listening so
they can visit and check it out.
(09:58):
It's liedstadt.
de L-I-E-D-S-T-A-D-T dot E.
Exactly For those non-Germanspeakers Exactly.
Cate Pisaroni (10:07):
You can follow us on Instagram and we're planning
further iterations of thefestival in Weimar and Leipzig
this year.
There are many other satelliteevents of this festival coming.
Elizabeth Bowman (10:15):
What are your thoughts on influencer marketing
within the arts and we sort oftouched on that earlier but
specifically like, what are yourthoughts on influencer
marketing with influencers maybeoutside of our industry or
within, and the role that theycould play or should play within
our industry?
What do you think?
Cate Pisaroni (10:36):
I think there's a huge potential there, but, as
with everything in communication, I feel like it needs to be
genuine and I think this storyis more successful when people
are genuinely excited about thisart form.
Just asking an influencer topost something for you may not
resonate with anybody.
I think it's much better tobring them to the opera to show
them some behind the scenesthings, some cool things.
(10:59):
I mean, opera houses are verycool venues and they have a lot
of energy and I often feel theyhave some kind of I don't know
if I would say sacred energy,but they do have some kind of
incredible vibe that you canfeel when you enter these spaces
.
And I think if people aregenuinely excited and have
experienced a performance andhave talked about the show with
(11:19):
the artist, then they canperhaps place in some marketing
materials on their channels.
That feels genuine, because Ifeel on social media we are
constantly being sold somethingand people are tired of that too
.
Sometimes they just want tohave a good story and not be
bombarded with posts thatbasically center around come to
that show, buy a ticket for thatand buy my new album.
(11:40):
Yes, they should also do that,but I feel it's more exciting
when the artists actually sharesomething that is personal to
them, and I feel more successfulposts on social media can
happen when artists arevulnerable and when they
actually share something, and Ifeel the educational part of it
should never be forgotten.
We all have something to learnand it doesn't have to be
academic and boring.
It can be very interesting andexciting.
Elizabeth Bowman (12:02):
For sure.
I think it would be good to seemore cross-pollination between
influencers coming, beinginvited to come to the opera,
the symphony, yes, concerts ingeneral, with the idea that they
would not just post a pictureof them being there but, like
(12:22):
you say, to drive a deeperconnection to it, like how was
their experience there?
What were top three things thatthey enjoyed about that
experience?
In terms of what kind ofcollaboration Although I think
it's quite expensive to getthese types of people to bring
them to the opera or whateverbut I don't think it should be,
(12:43):
because I think that the valueproposition for that influencer
to be at the opera or thesymphony or a concert is really
high, because it's a verycultured event and it shows that
they're interested inexperiencing culture.
So what could go wrong there?
Cate Pisaroni (12:58):
But I also feel like maybe the focus shouldn't
just be on the people who havethe most amount of followers,
and cross-pollination is notjust an Instagram post.
I feel there should be morecross-pollination throughout the
creative process.
So one of the things thatLenny's Studio does quite
frequently lately is we reachout to fashion designers to see
if they want to collaborate withan artist on a photo shoot or
(13:20):
whatever.
So therefore, they would getphotos of artists in their
clothes and attend performancesand we would reach a new
audience with these kinds ofcontent being produced, and that
very often happens without anymonetary exchange.
Elizabeth Bowman (13:33):
Yeah, when I first started working with
mezzo-soprano Wallace Junta, shewas the face of a bridal design
line, which was really useful,actually, because they were
designing a lot of gowns and shewas being photographed all the
time in these beautiful dresses,so that was like a beautiful
part.
I think that there shoulddefinitely be more of that,
(13:56):
because they can imagine any,they can put an opera singer in
anything, because they'll wearwild things that nobody would
wear at a gala Like it's, thingsthat are visual, that are art,
and it can go beyond what youwould see on a fashion runway
even, of course exactly, andmost fashion designers are
(14:18):
incredibly inspired by theartistry of the singers and how
they communicate and how theydescribe certain roles that they
portray and they love beingpart of the process.
Cate Pisaroni (14:27):
So I feel like everybody benefits from these
things and it's more interestingthan just saying, okay, there's
a price tag of X thousanddollars to make this
collaboration possible, becausethis way everybody benefits from
the creative energy in the room, definitely.
Elizabeth Bowman (14:40):
Okay.
So the other day I askedChatGPT to roast arts marketers
and it came up with thishilarious line of text, which I
may or may not share in a reel,because it really does hit close
to home, but anyway, I want toask you some bits around what it
presented to me.
It talked about, for instance,the overused taglines in arts
(15:02):
marketing, such as the timelessclassic, a must-see event
experience, the magic for onenight only, spellbinding
performance, a masterpiece ofinsert emotion here.
Anyway, with all of this said,what tips would you give to
avoid falling into these traps?
Cate Pisaroni (15:24):
Again, I think we should be more specific in our
communication because we shouldthink about wording that can
only apply to this particularperformance, because that feels
extremely generic and I feel alot of language being used
around opera doesn't reallycommunicate what this is about
and I feel sometimes it's moresensationalist than the piece
lends itself to.
So maybe more time needs to bespent in knowing what it is that
(15:45):
we're actually trying tocommunicate, and maybe the
artists I have worked with somany artists who are incredibly
eloquent in describing thejourney of their character in an
opera and I feel if there weresome kind of roundtable
conversation with artists forone hour in the course of a
production, we would find otherwords to describe what we are
trying to get people to see.
Elizabeth Bowman (16:05):
That's a great idea, the idea of almost the
speed dating setup with themarketers, where each artist, no
matter how big or small theircharacter is, can go around in a
five-minute rotation with thevarious marketers and everyone
can take notes about what wassaid, and then at the end the
(16:26):
marketers can go back andcompare notes to what they've
experienced and I bet you theywould come out with something
really interesting 100%.
Cate Pisaroni (16:35):
And I feel that for some reason, marketing and
PR have a bad reputation, andthat is not fair, although I
understand where it comes from,because very often it is this
kind of language that you justmentioned that seems extremely
generic and that does nothingfor anybody.
But I feel good PR and goodmarketing stems from excellent
storytelling, and that is acraft that cannot be
(16:58):
underestimated, and I think thegift of the marketer would be to
gather all of these stories andall of these impressions and
craft a narrative from that, andI would love to see that happen
.
I think it could be extremelyexciting.
Elizabeth Bowman (17:09):
I hope someone will do that and report back to
this podcast and somehow say itwent great.
Cate Pisaroni (17:15):
Yeah, also, artists are very creative people
.
I mean, I think we should Idon't know, we should have more
of an exchange about thesethings, also about the kind of
content that's called socialmedia content that opera
companies are producing.
I feel like the artists dotheir own thing and the
organization do their own thing,but there's too little overlap,
right.
Elizabeth Bowman (17:31):
Following the same thread, there's the concert
poster or the event poster andoftentimes again, you'll see
generic stock photos used, or anoveremphasis of sponsorship
logos, inconsistent typographyor just like a whole lot of
headshots.
Let's talk about the poster.
(17:53):
What are key elements that youwant to see on a poster?
Cate Pisaroni (17:56):
I want to see a very engaging, striking,
memorable image, and a headshotunder no circumstances can
qualify, because headshots arevery often old, it's always the
same cropping, it's always thiskind of passport picture type
frame.
I want to see some imagery thatconveys the spirit of the
concert.
If it's something extremelyvibrant in program, I would like
(18:18):
to see that reflected in theimagery.
If this is still a glassconcert, it should look very
different than RachmaninoffPiano Concerto or Prokofiev
Symphony or an opera gala, and Ifeel like we very often fail to
understand the power of imageryand how much can be
communicated through color,through contrast, through
(18:38):
composition in an image.
So I want to see very engagingimagery.
Then I want to see very largetitle placement on the poster
with interesting choices oftypography that are legible but
that also stylistically conveythe spirit of the concert.
Date and time would be nice.
Ticket prices need to be on aposter.
A QR code needs to be on theposter.
I mean, since COVID, everybodyknows how to use those.
(18:59):
Perhaps a press quote should beon there if it pertains to this
particular artist performingthis music.
All of the participatingartists should be on there.
I don't feel that we need tinythumbnail images of all of the
participants, because that justmakes the visual of the poster
weak and adds very little to it.
So I'd rather have interestingplacement of typography and list
(19:20):
everyone Less is more I feelthe other have interesting
placement of typography and listeveryone Less is more I feel.
The other day I walked byCarnegie Hall and there's a huge
disconnect between the postersthat are produced by Carnegie
Hall and posters that arecurrently on display that are
reflecting independent peoplepresenting their concerts at
Carnegie Hall.
It's very often the posters arenot compelling, very washed out
and have way too muchinformation on them.
Elizabeth Bowman (19:41):
Yeah, it's interesting that they don't have
a style chart for those cominginto Carnegie Hall.
The other presenters shouldhave to follow, like almost from
a brand perspective, if thoseposters are along the building,
Because I mean, we all recognizethe Carnegie Hall brand but I
guess they don't want tonecessarily associate with who
(20:02):
are going in there, because theywant to make it clear that
they're not presenting.
But, it's still nice on thebuilding to see all of the
Carnegie brand.
Cate Pisaroni (20:10):
I think there should be a style guide perhaps,
because then I think I mean, ofcourse there needs to be a
visual distinction by theconcert presented by Carnegie
Hall and by others, but I feelthere's a lack of consistency
that just makes it veryconfusing visually speaking.
Elizabeth Bowman (20:22):
Maybe if they had a contrasting color for the
frame.
Cate Pisaroni (20:27):
Yes, exactly.
Elizabeth Bowman (20:27):
Indicated that it wasn't presented by them.
Anyway, they're doing just fine.
Cate Pisaroni (20:32):
I think so.
Elizabeth Bowman (20:33):
No, I agree with all that you say there.
I do think that allorganizations, no matter how big
or small and likely I'mtargeting this to smaller
organizations should really mapout their style guides, like
what their fonts are, what theircolors are, and be consistent
on their concert poster, butalso on all of the materials
(20:54):
that go out, because oftentimesyou see just a whole lot of
different text being used, evenif you read through their
Instagram thumbnails and thatkind of thing, and it can be
confusing for the user becausethey don't necessarily recognize
it as a brand.
That's like low hanging fruitfor an organization.
Cate Pisaroni (21:10):
I think so.
I think all printed materialshould go through the same
process of following the styleguide 100%.
I feel on Instagram there is atrend towards less curated feeds
, because I feel like a feedshould be curated, but loosely
curated.
I do consider what I post, inwhich sequence, and what that
looks like and what the colorscheme looks like of two
(21:32):
pictures next to each other, andthat perhaps the cropping
should not be identical on everysingle thumbnail so that
there's some visual variety,right when you have full body
shots and then you haveclose-ups and then you have
perhaps a picture of the set, sothat it's overall a nice visual
composition and that you don'thave seven shades of red next to
each other and they allinterfere with each other.
These are somehow verylow-hanging fruits.
(21:54):
I feel that the time whenthings were very curated, like
an O'Bridel photographer's feedor something, where it always
follows the same formula, wherethere's I don't know some text
in the middle and then twopictures on either side in the
same color scheme, that feelsvery non-spontaneous and I think
that looks very pleasing whenyou go on somebody's feed, but
it becomes very predictable andboring and I think what people
(22:16):
like on social media nowadays issomething that's fun and that's
unexpected and it catches youreye and people are constantly
scrolling, so there needs to besome kind of thing to make you
stop.
Elizabeth Bowman (22:26):
There's an element of, like you say, the
emphasis on storytelling islarge now, which is great,
because that's way moreinteresting.
I guess it's a matter ofpeppering in those spontaneous
posts and collabs along withyour branded content, so that as
they're going through this, thescrolling, or scrolling through
(22:47):
your feed, that they canunderstand that this is for this
institution and and that thesepeople also collaborate with
artists and they do this andthey do that, and they can sort
of identify via the scroll.
It's sort of like if you'rescrolling and you don't see the
story, then you know it's notright, absolutely 100%.
Cate Pisaroni (23:09):
I think perhaps one of the ways where more
visual continuity could beensured is if reels could have a
small watermark right on thebottom, left or top right or
wherever you want to positionthat that's the logo of the
institution.
That would make thisimmediately recognizable.
Perhaps that would be a way todo that.
Other than that, I don't feellike all content should follow a
(23:30):
formula.
I think that's boring, orperhaps for only a particular
part of the season or something.
I've seen this once, um, onsome fashion designers feeds
where everything is green oreverything is red for 20 posts
and then there's a new vibe orsomething.
Elizabeth Bowman (23:46):
I guess if you're a paint company, yes.
Cate Pisaroni (23:49):
If you're Pantone , then you can do that.
Can it be the color of the year?
Elizabeth Bowman (23:54):
Yeah, I really didn't like this year's color
of the year.
Me neither.
Cate Pisaroni (23:58):
Yeah.
Elizabeth Bowman (23:59):
Not into that.
Okay, if you're not sure aboutwhat that is, you can check out
Pantone's color of the year.
Is it what?
Chocolate mousse?
Cate Pisaroni (24:07):
Yes, I really wish they had that in brown set.
No one ever Exactly.
Elizabeth Bowman (24:11):
Okay, let's talk about the social media
takeovers, because oftentimes acompany will decide oh, we're
going to let artists do socialmedia takeovers, which is great.
We were talking at thebeginning about the lack of
collaboration between artist andcompany, and so social media
takeovers should, in principle,according to that, be a great
(24:32):
idea, and they are a great idea.
But obviously they need to beplanned, and oftentimes you'll
see an artist just post aboutlike a hundred different stories
about nothing, and that, Ithink, is a bit of a detriment
to the whole idea ofcollaboration.
But I want to know yourcomments on that.
Cate Pisaroni (24:49):
Instagram takeovers are a little bit passe
.
I think we've all seen this toomany times and we've seen it
done poorly too many times, sothere's fatigue around this
format.
I feel generally the sameapplies to an Instagram takeover
as it does to a photo shootthat I organize.
Whenever I organize a photoshoot for an artist, I have a
mood board and a plan of contentthat I want to get and about
(25:12):
the kinds of looks that I wantto accomplish, and all of that
is planned in advance, and thenhalf of that plan is thrown
overboard because inspirationtakes over in the moment and you
take it into another directionand sometimes the most
interesting things emerge fromthat.
That being said, the plan stillneeds to be intact before you
do that, otherwise theinspiration has less fertile
(25:33):
ground to grow from, I think.
So I think for an Instagramtakeover, it depends on the kind
of artist who does it, and Ithink there's too little
consideration being put intopre-prepping some content so
that you have some things toshare that are edited and that
are high quality, and then youare inspired in the moment.
But if you want to dointerviews with artists and
(25:53):
colleagues during the lead uptime for the show, there's not
enough time for people to getready during the lead-up time
for the show.
There's not enough time forpeople to get ready, do
interesting interviews, edit thevideos and post them in real
time.
So I feel at least half of thecontent should be pre-prepared
right that you can then throwoverboard if more interesting
things come up.
But, generally speaking, moreprep time.
Also, I feel like if thetakeover is by Don Giovanni, it
(26:17):
should be in Don Giovanni's vibe, versus if the takeover is by
Zelina, should be very differentin style and I feel it's become
very interchangeable right,where it's like pictures of
colleagues hugging backstage,which is lovely, but it's we've
seen it.
Elizabeth Bowman (26:33):
I have orchestrated a few takeovers for
artist clients and I completelyagree, like you got to pre-plan
the content and often I wouldrequest, like the fifth
performance day, becauseobviously that allows you to get
a lot of that pre-footage, likesome of the bows and stuff like
that.
Yes, oh, spoiler alert, guys,it might not be the bow from
(26:56):
that day, it's going on theInstagram.
Cate Pisaroni (26:58):
You gave it away.
Elizabeth Bowman (26:59):
I just gave it away.
But another thing that Ithought was useful was thinking
about again about thiscollaboration thing.
I think I did.
I helped Amber Braid with acollaboration when she was
working at the Canadian OperaCompany one time and I reached
out to CBC, the CanadianBroadcast Corporation, to see if
(27:20):
, you know, they would beinterested in showing a
backstage tour, and so weincorporated that into the
takeover.
So there was, you know, apartnership with CBC and the
backstage tour and that kind ofthing.
So it's good to think of allthe partnerships that could be
related into that takeover sothat it looks high quality but
(27:42):
also like high spider potential.
Exactly, yeah, and I mean youcould do so many things.
I mean you could, like theartists are going to cafes
regularly or they're working outat a gym nearby.
You know they could collab withthose places.
Cate Pisaroni (28:00):
Absolutely, I want to see more of that.
I want to see more of that too.
Also, I want to see artistslive their lives right and
somehow expanding their networkin an organic way where they can
I don't know have moreinteraction with the dancers or
with somebody who has an artgallery, and I want to see more
pop-up concerts in an artgallery.
(28:20):
I want to see more activitiesin schools.
I want to see I don't know, Iwant to see a more lively
community where opera singers donot just hang out with other
opera singers.
Elizabeth Bowman (28:30):
Yeah, that's great.
That's great advice.
I just interviewed Alex Sarian,the author of the Audacity of
Relevance, and his episode isairing the week before your
episode.
And you know there's so much inthat book about the importance
of community and just in generallike thinking about that
(28:52):
community.
And for opera singers it'schallenging because they're
always traveling the world.
But you really got to placeyourself into the city that
you're in and see what isrelevant to that particular
community and I think that willresonate, like you say.
Cate Pisaroni (29:02):
I think community is very important.
It's a word that is used a lotand it's not always fully.
It shouldn't be tokenism.
And I think when we talk aboutcommunity, we should also look
at audience experiences.
What is it like to go to anopera house?
Who greets you?
What happens after aperformance?
And I think there's room forimprovement to make the simple
experience more enjoyable.
(29:22):
I mean, if we look at Cirque duSoleil and what that experience
is like when you arrive versusin an opera company, I think we
have some fun that could be hadbefore shows and after shows.
Or a lot of concert venues haveafter parties, which I think is
a fabulous idea, where peoplecould just have a drink and I
don't know, meet some new people, exchange their thoughts about
the concert, and I think artistsshould be part of this as well.
(29:45):
Right, when the Q&A is notalways on stage, where there's
once again this barrier betweenthe auditorium and the stage, I
think it would be nice to havesome kind of time to mingle a
little bit and to talk to theartists.
That is not just an autographrequest.
Elizabeth Bowman (29:58):
Yeah, that's a great idea.
And even if you had apartnership with various
businesses around that operahouse or symphony hall, you know
where, you could say, at 11o'clock we're having the after
party at this place, likewhoever come one come all, I
don't know Exactly.
I mean, not everyone wants todo that and those that do want
(30:21):
to do that will feel moreconnected and that's wonderful.
And if it is packed and crazy,that's great.
Cate Pisaroni (30:27):
Wonderful, the more the merrier.
Elizabeth Bowman (30:29):
If it's hard to get into, it's amazing, you
know, and then you can figureout ways to maximize that
engagement.
Cate Pisaroni (30:36):
Absolutely.
Elizabeth Bowman (30:36):
Always great ideas, Cate, we try right that
engagement.
Absolutely Always great ,C ate,we try right.
We try To close this interviewout.
I want to ask what advice wouldyou give to your younger self
who hadn't started out yet inthis whole crazy arts marketing
business?
Cate Pisaroni (30:53):
Trust your intuition more, because it's one
of the things that isunderestimated and so much of
stage life and also of the livesof people who work with people
who are on the stage isinfluenced, should be influenced
by intuition, becauseintuitively, we know more than
we give ourselves credit for.
(31:13):
When is an image good?
When is a composition good?
Is the color scheme right?
What is the story of this image?
You know, I shot a photo shootthe other day with Joyce
DiDonato for her new album forDido and Aeneas that is going to
come out, and we had a veryfunny idea about what this cover
could be like, because we'veall seen Dido in a gown and this
(31:34):
is what we didn't want tocommunicate.
So we came up with somethingthat I can't reveal yet, but I
think it's going to be a veryfresh take on what Dido looks
like towards the end of thatopera and what she communicates
and what the vibe of that is.
So I think, trust yourintuition.
We all have a lot of educationand a lot of the things that
inform our intuition have beenstudied, like we have learned
(31:58):
what makes a good composition,etc.
But sometimes we have to breakthe rules and we have to trust
our intuition and sometimes wesecond guess that and we then
stray and it's a mistake Greatadvice.
Elizabeth Bowman (32:10):
Cate, thanks for coming.
It's always great to talk toyou and I'm so glad we got to do
this again.
Thank you so much.
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