April 17, 2025 • 29 mins
Christian Van Horn joins us for a refreshingly candid conversation about the evolving opera landscape and the challenges emerging artists face today. The renowned bass-baritone, currently performing at Paris Opera (as Philippe II in Verdi's Don Carlos), shares how traditional career trajectories have dramatically lengthened, with young artists often remaining in training programs well into their late thirties – a stark contrast to his own path.
"We are the media now," he asserts, explaining how his successful podcast (CVH Podcast) unexpectedly transformed not just his connection with audiences but his entire approach to performing. "It gave me power to be me," he reveals, describing how the confidence to be authentic on his podcast translated directly to greater artistic freedom on stage.
Our discussion ventures into provocative territory regarding talent development, with Christian offering a compelling perspective on what truly matters beyond technical proficiency. While acknowledging the solid foundation young singers receive, he argues passionately that emotional connection is what separates great singers from truly exceptional artists: "I didn't give the award to the most technically sound singers. I gave the awards to the ones that made me feel something."
The conversation also explores innovation in concert formats, the role of physical fitness in performance longevity, and the pursuit of authenticity in an industry often dominated by external criticism. Christian's insights offer a masterclass in career resilience and artistic integrity for performers at any stage. Whether you're an aspiring opera singer, established performer, or simply curious about the inner workings of classical music, this episode delivers wisdom that transcends the opera world.
Have you experienced the power of embracing authenticity in your own creative work? Share your thoughts and join the conversation.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Elizabeth Bowman (00:00):
Hi, I'm Elizabeth Bowman and welcome to
the Scene Room.
Today I have bass baritoneChristian Van Horn here.
He is a regular with operacompanies all over the world,
currently singing with ParisOpera, and I've seen him many
times on the Metropolitan OperaStage.
He also has a very successfulpodcast, the CVH Podcast.
(00:21):
Today we talk about the operaindustry, what emerging artists
are facing as they carve outtheir careers in today's climate
, and more.
If you're enjoying the podcast,please do not hesitate to like,
share, review, do all thelittle things to help keep these
conversations going.
We really appreciate it.
(00:42):
And now let's get to theconversation.
Christian, welcome to the sceneroom.
Thanks so much for coming.
Christian Van Horn (00:48):
Thank you for having me Glad to be here.
Elizabeth Bowman (00:50):
Where are we podcasting from?
Christian Van Horn (00:52):
I am sitting in my apartment in Paris right
now.
Elizabeth Bowman (00:55):
And what are you doing in Paris?
Christian Van Horn (00:57):
I'm in the middle of the Don Carlos at the
Paris Opera.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:00):
I've heard so many great things about that
production and your About theproduction All right.
Well, in particular about yourperformance in that production I
, you know, I haven't seen theproduction.
Christian Van Horn (01:13):
It's my first fill-up, yeah, and it's
been going great.
You know, I think I waited 25years to finally sing this one
and it's going according to plan.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:20):
That's great, and when's it running?
Until?
Christian Van Horn (01:22):
April 24th is the last performance.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:25):
So not much longer.
Paris is run by my old boss,Alexander Neef.
Christian Van Horn (01:30):
He runs it well boy.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:32):
I used to be his executive assistant.
Christian Van Horn (01:34):
Is that right?
Elizabeth Bowman (01:35):
Yeah, in 2009, 2010, when he came to the
Canadian Opera Company.
So, yeah, we worked veryclosely together.
Christian Van Horn (01:43):
Alexander's great.
He's just one of the bestSurprising you know for a young
man.
I guess he's young.
I mean, I say young but he'sbasically my age, but he runs it
.
He runs it like he was born todo it.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:54):
Yeah, when he came to Toronto for the Canadian
opera job, he was only 34.
Christian Van Horn (01:59):
So Right he still kind of looks 34.
He's amazing, he's not aging.
I played Mephistopheles a lotin Faust and I'm not so sure
he'd make a deal with somebody.
He looks good.
Elizabeth Bowman (02:09):
I want to talk to you.
I'm sure you're on podcasts andradio interviews all the time
talking about your career andyour journey in voice and stuff.
I want to talk to you moreabout the state of the industry
right now.
That's way more interesting.
(02:29):
So I'm going to start with thepath of young artists today and
how it differed from your pathas an artist.
So what it takes for emergingsingers now to carve out a
sustainable career, in youropinion, in today's industry.
Christian Van Horn (02:42):
Honestly, I think I was too dumb to know how
hard it was at the time and Ihad a pretty standard go.
How that compares to today I'mnot real sure.
I went from grad school toyoung artist program, to
regional work, to a Festcontract, to international work
and it all sort of happened intwo-year intervals and it seemed
like every time I was placed anew spot I kind of leveled up to
(03:02):
ready me for the next place andthat was idyllic.
Today the kids are, they'reyoung artists until their late
30s.
I can't even fathom that.
I think any young singer doingit now really wants it, because
they're setting themselves upfor a much longer process than I
did.
That's not to say that I didn'tgo through a long process.
It was a long time beforeanybody knew who I was, but I
(03:23):
was at least being paid to singpretty early on.
You know, by the time I leftChicago as a young artist in
2006, I was a working musician.
I've never had any other jobbut singing since college.
It just went the way it seemedit was supposed to.
Nowadays the kids are.
They go from graduate programto graduate program.
They have to go to a youngartist.
You know some of them arepaying to sing.
I can't even, you know, likethese god-awful pay-to-sing
(03:44):
things.
And then young artists untilthey're 35, I had people cover
me as young artists who werejust a few years younger than me
.
It's mind-blowing.
If you see a singer going forit today, they really want it.
There's nobody doing it halfway.
And if they are doing ithalfway they're going to learn
pretty quick that this is notfor them.
(04:25):
No-transcript You're lucky toget a few a year, especially
when you're a student.
You know, I think when I was ingrad school you had four opera
performances total, a recital, acouple of master classes.
You were lucky to sing in frontof people.
We had studio class, which noteverybody took advantage of, but
I tried to.
If there was studio class, Iforced myself to sing.
(04:45):
Just because you need therepetitions of performing in
front of people.
I get weary of anybody who wantsyou to pay to sing, but at the
same time, if you don't have anyother opportunity, I guess it's
a viable route.
You know, I remember thecomedian Seth Rogan and he was
talking to Jerry Seinfeld andJerry asked him if he had done
any standup and he says oh yeah,I did stand up when I first
started in comedy and he says Ithought I wanted to be a standup
comedian until I met somebodywho really wanted to be a
(05:07):
standup comedian.
And so I think I think thatreally pertains to what we do
that if you're not fullyobsessed, fully in, fully ready
to say yes to almost anything,it's going to be tough.
It's going to be tough becausethere's, there are people
willing, willing, ready and able, and some people are ready to
pay to sing to get thatexperience and I can't fault
them, I can't fault people fortrying anything.
Elizabeth Bowman (05:28):
It sort of reminds me of.
So my background is in PR andmarketing and that kind of thing
.
But there was this magazine,which I won't name, that would
write to me and ask if I wantedto pay for CD reviews.
You know, preview articles.
Christian Van Horn (05:44):
Can they be good cd reviews yeah, no, they.
Elizabeth Bowman (05:48):
They basically say between the lines that it's
like wink, wink, here's yourreview and you just pay us five
I write it too yeah five, sixhundred dollars and we'll
publish this review for you.
Christian Van Horn (06:05):
Oh, it's the end of the world.
Elizabeth Bowman (06:07):
Yeah, and this was happening.
Like 10 years ago this washappening, so not I mean, that's
a long time and it's gottenworse now because now there's
social media and influencers.
Christian Van Horn (06:21):
I've given up on reviews.
I've given up on somebody elsedoing any PR for us.
I think we can be the media now.
That's why I have my ownpodcast, that's why I have in
charge of all of my socialchannels, that's why I have help
with all of my social channels.
We are the media now.
I'm not going to wait for arecord company or an opera house
or anyone, frankly, to try anddo my bidding because they're
(06:41):
just they're not interested.
It's not a thing anymore.
Elizabeth Bowman (06:49):
Exactly, try and do my bidding, because
they're just, they're notinterested, it's not a thing
anymore.
Exactly, but yes, we werespeaking, before we turned the
mics on, about authenticity andthis idea that this publication
was known within the innercircles maybe not the outer
circles of being this sort ofcorrupt magazine and if you did
have a review or a preview inthat magazine then people would
know that you paid to play, andso there's this element of it
(07:18):
showed you were serious to playand all of this talk of equality
and diversity and you know,within the programs and emerging
artists and and this kind ofthing, and then having to pay
thousands of dollars for theseprograms yeah which obviously
only a certain portion canafford.
(07:40):
It doesn't play into theequality well,
Christian Van Horn (07:44):
I'm not sure that it was meant to.
But, um, the all inclusive partof classical music is an
important conversation.
I'm of the position, be itcorrect or not, that best
audition, best cellist, bestmaestro, best director should
always win.
Yeah, and that should never bebased on any other factor,
anything, anything other thanthat, and I think you're losing
(08:05):
the quality of the product.
Is there an imbalance?
For sure there is.
Is it being corrected?
I hope so.
I only want the best thing outthere at all times, regardless
of any other mitigating factor.
That's not the time we live in,maybe, but I think we're
starting that correction isrighting itself a little bit.
It was certainly imbalanced,that's for sure, but give it
more time before it looks better.
I think they put a big bandaidon it.
(08:26):
Didn't really address theproblem.
Elizabeth Bowman (08:28):
No, I'm just saying that these programs don't
necessarily play into thesolution.
Christian Van Horn (08:32):
No, I don't think so.
Yeah, and then it puts people ata disadvantage, obviously, who
might be extremely talented.
I wouldn't tell anybody to payto sing.
I wouldn't tell anybody to payto get reviewed.
I don't think you can reallystop talent.
I don't think talent's going toget missed.
I don't think we've ever had apaparotti slip through our
(08:53):
fingers.
You know what I mean.
I think if you're great, you'llbe heard.
I remember my former agentwho's retired now and we were
together for over 20 years, andshe said I didn't like singers
who cold called me because if Iwas supposed to know about you I
would.
And that's a harsh reality, butit's the truth, and so I don't
think real talent is ever goingto get missed.
Are there opportunities earlyon that could advance things
(09:14):
faster?
For sure, For sure, that's true.
But the best is not going toget swept under the rug Never.
Elizabeth Bowman (09:19):
Especially now , as you say you are the news,
like you the royal, you are thenews.
You are empowered with yourchannels to get your message
across.
Christian Van Horn (09:31):
If you are putting your performances online
in a way that you are satisfiedwith that, I like being in
control of it, that if yousearch my name, the first 15
things to show up is somethingthat I'm in control of.
I think we're foolish not to bein control of it.
Why would you let anybody elsehandle your brand?
We live in a time where we canbe in charge of what's seen and
(09:51):
not seen for the most part.
Look, if I have a bad night andsomebody takes a video and puts
it on YouTube, that's you know.
I have no control over that,but the major thing is where we
go for information about someone.
I think you're foolish not tocontrol it, and it's easily
handled.
Elizabeth Bowman (10:03):
Speaking of how you control your narrative
and your content when you'reworking within these big opera
houses, which you do and theyhave, like what are the rules in
place for how much you can filmthe?
Christian Van Horn (10:17):
rules are getting loose.
It used to be pretty hardcorewhen I started.
I'll tell you how old I amNobody had a camera in rehearsal
.
There was no cell phone, sothere was no camera, and on
occasion, somebody might have adigital recording device or even
a tape recording device, if youcan imagine and these things
were frowned upon big time theunions had a stranglehold on
(10:38):
what could be recorded.
If we're not selling our musicin my case, with every breath
it's just not going to be found.
Otherwise, we don't haverecording companies.
Nobody's making money offrecordings Literally nobody.
It's a completely futileendeavor, and so if somebody
takes a little 20 second clip ina rehearsal and it puts it up
(10:59):
on their Instagram, and thatgets a ton of traffic, 20,000
people look at it in three daysand it sells a few tickets.
Thank God, we need that.
We absolutely need that.
And so there was a time whereyou could not pull out a cell
phone and take a video.
They give you a book of rules.
As soon as you walk in the roomand say the following things
you can't do, people are kind ofturning a blind eye to it.
(11:19):
Now we can put out a lot more,and if somebody doesn't want you
to put it out or somebody inhindsight wants you to take it
down.
Probably it's already been seen.
We're having a hard timecontrolling video.
Now Everybody's got a camera intheir hands.
Everything's being captured.
Opening night of Don Carlo here.
Look, 20 videos show up onYouTube within an hour of the
curtain.
To try and get all those down,anybody who's interested has
(11:42):
probably already seen it, and soI like that.
It's loosening.
I think we need to scout whatwe do.
I think every time somebodyopens up their cell phone, I
hope they see what we do,whether it's me or somebody else
, or just like repeating thatthis is great, the message that
this is worthwhile, this artform is worth looking at and
worth enjoying and worthinvesting in or even having your
(12:03):
first look at.
I think we have to repeat thatwith every breath because it
will go away.
If you don't live in somebody'scell phone, you don't really
exist in that business.
You exist in the world.
Your friends and families loveyou, but if you want to exist in
the classical world, you haveto exist on somebody's phone.
It's this dumb.
I'm absolutely convinced it'sthis stupid.
Elizabeth Bowman (12:22):
I talk about this particular thing on the
episode that will air the weekbefore your episode with David
Lamelli, because I've had a lotof experience.
David's a big believer.
Christian Van Horn (12:31):
He's a big believer in this and he taught
me a lot of what I know.
I mean, he's a huge proponentof say it as many times as you
can.
Elizabeth Bowman (12:38):
My experience is backstage as a publicist.
I mean publicists tend not tobe liked that much, or they in
the past, I mean because wewanted to push the envelope and
cover these.
Christian Van Horn (12:51):
yeah, well you guys had the ideas.
You were like let's thinkoutside the box.
How can we say this again?
You know, we're trying to saythe same thing in as many ways
as possible to bring as manypeople to the table.
We are people, are storytellers, and that's our story needs to
be told if you want to stay, ifyou want to keep going, if you
want to grow.
I try to remember that this isa business.
I'm running a business and onceI realized that my socials
(13:14):
weren't for my friends andfamily, but they were for my
business.
It was a lot easier.
It was all this pressure wasoff and just said yes, how do I
bring as many people to thetable as possible?
Elizabeth Bowman (13:22):
That's a good reframing of how to create your
content.
I want to ask you, going in adifferent direction now.
Concert formats they've beenthe same for well, I don't know
how long, for a long time wherewe arrive and then we have, you
know, our first half usually,and then there's an intermission
, and then the second half, andeven with the repertoire choices
(13:45):
, you know you start with Bachand then you start moving
through the periods and then bythe end you have your party song
.
Christian Van Horn (13:54):
You nailed it.
That's Recital 101.
Elizabeth Bowman (13:56):
So I just want to ask you.
I mean, we're trying toinnovate, trying to bring in new
audiences, trying new things.
Is it time to tackle theconcert format?
Christian Van Horn (14:07):
I think we absolutely have to.
I never like to go.
No, that's not true.
I saw Brain Tarrifle sing supersongs at Carnegie Hall 25 years
ago and it was a religiousexperience and it was sold out.
I don't believe the Americanaudience, the American audience
wants this anymore.
I think you have a hard timekeeping their attention.
I think they want to be a partof it.
There's an interactive natureto what we do.
(14:27):
They want to be involved, beinvested.
They want to know the artists,they want to know, they want to
engage personally in a lot ofways and I have something in the
works now where I'm going to bedoing half recital of music.
I love, not necessarilyclassical music, but with my
voice.
That's going to be the firsthalf and the second half is
going to be a live podcast.
I've told enough of my audienceto know that they would show up
(14:48):
for this and we're going to runthe podcast as just as I do in
my home studio here.
But we're going to do it for alive audience and we're going to
have that interaction, thatinterface, that that
communication.
We've got to try something.
There are artists who can goand sing Vinterreise and get a
sold out audience.
The number of people that cando that is becoming less and
less in the States.
That's something that can do alittle bit better in Europe, a
(15:10):
lot better.
But to get people to show up toa concert in America, we have
to start thinking outside thebox for sure.
I don't think there's any otherway.
Let's try it all you know.
If it doesn't work, it doesn'twork.
Elizabeth Bowman (15:21):
I love that idea and I actually want to ask
you about your podcast, becauseI think that that is such a
great way to connect with youraudience and it brings out many
layers in that you'reinterviewing a lot of your
colleagues there.
What inspired you to start thepodcast in the first place?
Christian Van Horn (15:43):
Well, I did during COVID and I needed a
place to vent.
I needed to connect to theaudience.
I needed to use my voice.
I felt silenced.
We all did.
This is years ago now.
I'm not complaining about COVID,but it was time to try new
things and I got the absolutebest equipment money could buy
because I needed it to soundgood.
(16:03):
If a podcast doesn't sound good, it does not have my interest,
and so I made sure to get thehighest end microphones and
until I had a guest in the room,it was just me, and I still do
plenty episodes.
That's just me and we catch upon what's going on or whatever I
want to talk about.
I rarely have a plan.
I do not have talking points.
I turn the microphones on and Igo.
They're all about 20, 25minutes long and then, if I have
a guest, it could go for anhour, two hours.
(16:25):
I've gone three hours.
You know it's not unusual ifwe're having a good time.
It surprised me.
The initial interest didn'tsurprise me because everybody
was searching for something, butthe growth since then has been
phenomenal.
I think that I've connectedwith the audience in a way that
I get a lot of messages about itand people want to continue the
conversation.
What I hear more than anythingelse is people say I feel like
(16:45):
I'm sitting there with you.
I feel like I'm at the tablewith friends and we're laughing
and we're talking and I can'timagine a better compliment.
I want it to be that welcomingand that natural, because that's
all it is.
It's just me sitting with afriend.
We turn on the microphones andwe talk as if you know, some
people are uncomfortable and youhave to like, lean into it and
work into it.
But once you just realizeyou're chatting with a pal with
(17:07):
genuine interest in what they'redoing, it's show business
central.
I don't have just singers, Ihave actors or comedians and
we're just talking about showbusiness and we love it, we're
obsessed with it.
I'm obsessed with show businessand all its facets, and so when
you're fascinated withsomething and you're talking
with other people fascinatedwith it, you can't help but to
engage.
People want to be a part of it.
They want to hear what you'reso excited about.
(17:27):
Plenty of my people that listenhave nothing to do with
classical music.
Elizabeth Bowman (17:31):
Has the podcast changed the way that you
look at your career or theindustry in general?
Christian Van Horn (17:37):
It's a great question.
It gave me power.
It gave me power to be me and Ithink in turn, without sounding
too pretentious, that I tookthe confidence of being able to
just be me.
I was just me on the podcast,without any filter, and it was
popular, and so I said you needto do this in your performance.
You need to do exactly what youthink you're supposed to do and
not really worry about whatsomebody else's idea of what
(17:59):
you're supposed to do is.
And in that way, as an artist,I became free and I'm certain
that I grew as an artist becauseI just decided just do your
podcast.
Your performance is your podcast.
Yes, we have to honor what's onthe page, we have to honor the
music, we have to honor thecomposer.
We're doing all of those things.
But when it came to thestorytelling part, I said it's
me or they can find somebodyelse that has paid tremendous
(18:21):
dividends and just talking for275 episodes, you lose your fear
of being you, and that's what Ithink a lot of performers have.
They're scared of being you,and that's what I think a lot of
performers have.
They're scared of beingthemselves.
They're pretending to be asinger or they're pretending to
be an actor or they'repretending to be a character.
So just don't pretend it.
Be it Actually.
Be it in that moment.
Make it real.
If you need to cry, cry.
(18:41):
If you need to laugh out loud,laugh out loud.
That was the everything changedfor me in that journey of the
podcast.
It's an odd thing to say, butit opened as many doors as
anybody I've met along the way.
Elizabeth Bowman (18:52):
It's ironic that it's the hardest thing to
teach to just be yourself, andI've also been through this
journey of learning to be myself, you know, and I feel like I've
only really concretelysucceeded in this in my 40s.
Christian Van Horn (19:07):
You know it, you know when you're doing it
because it feels good.
Elizabeth Bowman (19:10):
Yeah.
Christian Van Horn (19:10):
It feels correct.
I think so often we spend somuch time in training, right?
Especially as a classicalmusician for 15 years, I was
surrounded by people telling mehow terrible I was.
You're constantly beingcorrected.
You're in rehearsal even today,and people are a little more
nervous to walk up to me andtell me small things, but I'm
still bombarded with peoplesaying this needs to be like the
(19:32):
little.
There's 85 people in the roomjustifying a paycheck, trying to
tell you how to be better andyou go.
You know what?
Everybody be quiet.
Everybody be quiet.
This is going to go very well.
If I'm just me, I had tosilence a lot of that or filter
it.
Take it in respectfully andfilter it.
We're trained to think thatwe're doing it wrong, so that
when you do have a personal idea, you go oh, maybe that's wrong,
(19:53):
maybe my instincts are wrong,not at this point.
You're not going to be anartist for 25 years and not have
something good to say.
You wouldn't have made it thisfar.
Elizabeth Bowman (20:01):
I wasn't going to ask you about this, but it
does sort of tie in to thisauthenticity point.
You're obviously very fit.
I see that you're very fitSmoking mirrors.
But you do have a commitment toyour health and wellness, and
this also plays into the role ofconfidence.
Christian Van Horn (20:20):
Absolutely being comfortable in your body
is a big part of that.
Sure.
Elizabeth Bowman (20:23):
Yeah.
So can I ask has this alwaysbeen part of your life, or is
this something that you sort ofdoubled down on at a certain
point?
Christian Van Horn (20:31):
Yeah, I mean , I've always I've had a gym
membership for God knows howlong I believed in exercise.
For sure I come from athletesand so you know there's not a
job in this world that is notimproved by you being healthier.
I'm not a dancer, but you knowlike I certainly take care of
how I look More because it's oneof the few things in this
business that you can control.
(20:53):
My views may be controversial.
Some people say, oh, I can't, Idon't want to lift weights
because you know it would hurtmy voice.
I don't partake in that at all.
If you feel healthy, you singhealthy, and as long as you're
not lifting more than you shouldor grunting or something like
this, you should be just fine.
With lightweight training, Uh,I had to do a show where I was
half dressed for a good portionof the show and that put the
(21:14):
fear of God in me.
And it wasn't that I wasn't fit.
I was, but I didn't look halfdressed ready for thousands.
And what I?
My?
My worst fear came true.
But I had my worst fear eightmonths prior, so I fixed it.
And my worst fear was that I wasgoing to be half dressed on the
cover of the New York times,and that is exactly what
happened there.
I was half dressed in the coverof the art section of the New
(21:37):
York times and thank God that Iwas happy with the way I looked.
I wasn't entirely happy, but Iwas way, but I was happy with
what I had done to that point.
And look, we're paid to belooked at and listened to.
I think it's crazy to not tryand look presentable.
There are some people who singso well they can look like
(21:57):
anything, or they singrepertoire.
That's so impossible that onlytwo people do it that they can
look the way they look, but thesecond those genres get flooded.
You're going to see even theWagnerians start to look like
models, because it's that nextaspect that makes you stand out.
It might not be for everybody,but I can attest to how it pays
(22:17):
out for me.
Elizabeth Bowman (22:18):
I also work out quite a bit.
I'm a runner, I run a lot, butI started out I was recovering
from a surgery shortly after thepandemic and it actually gave
me license to slow right down,because when you're recovering
from surgery, there's no ego inthe equation right.
Our egos get the best of us.
(22:39):
Yes, they do.
Yeah, we're like, oh, I'm goingto start running.
So then you start, you justlike run out the door and you
know, and, and get injured andget humbled.
But I started by speed walkingand now you know I'm about to
run my third marathon.
Christian Van Horn (22:58):
Oh, amazing.
I'm so impressed by marathonrunners, so impressed.
Elizabeth Bowman (23:02):
Yeah, I mean thank you, but it's the whole,
the whole process of it.
It's.
It is this like spiritual thingfor I think, most marathoners
or runners in general, thetraining aspect of it.
It's, it's not, it's mostlyabout mental health, I think.
Christian Van Horn (23:19):
Yeah.
Elizabeth Bowman (23:21):
And this whole journey because I started
running three just over threeyears ago and I also quit
drinking.
Christian Van Horn (23:29):
Yeah, good one.
Elizabeth Bowman (23:30):
Smart, so I feel good.
I feel great, but I just it'ssort of want.
It's like I want people to knowlike all you need to do is get
out there and speed walk andthen just spend some time
outside.
It will change your life, evenif you commit to even two miles
of speed walking.
Christian Van Horn (23:50):
Oh, just taking a walk every day is
better than not taking a walkevery day.
Elizabeth Bowman (23:55):
Yeah.
Christian Van Horn (23:55):
You know how simple is it to put your shoes
on and go outside.
You know, yeah, I don't everthink that anybody needs to be
turned into a fitness model.
That's for some people.
I like to feel strong.
I hurt my back last year in aperformance in a rehearsal where
I threw myself on the groundand I pinched a nerve in my
lower back and I was laid up forfive days and then I faked that
I was okay, but I wasn't okay.
(24:17):
I finally tookanti-inflammatory drugs to calm
this down.
I was in so much pain and thedoctor and it was over here in
France.
And the doctor said you are 46years old.
Most people don't throwthemselves on the ground for
three hours during a rehearsal.
It just doesn't happen.
You're moving in a way that'snot very age appropriate.
And she said if you were aprofessional athlete you would
have been retired 10 years agoor more.
(24:38):
This is a physical job and evenjust kneeling down on a hard
stage and getting back upswiftly is a challenge.
I sing Escamillo all the timein Carbon.
I did one recently in SanFrancisco and I'm standing on
the table singing the aria andat the end of the aria in the
rehearsal the director says OK,now jump off the table onto the
stage.
I said I would never, I can't.
My jumping off the table daysare over.
(25:00):
It wasn't good for me when Iwas 25 and I'll kill myself now.
And so I work out so that I canmaintain as much as I can, as I
watch those parts get more andmore difficult.
Use it or lose it.
I'm going to work out until I'mdead because it's the only
thing that keeps me getting upin the morning.
It's as much a mental thing asanything else.
I hate going to the gym.
(25:20):
I hate it, but I love leavingthe gym having gone.
I love that part, and so Iremember that part when I'm,
when I'm struggling.
If I put my shoes on, I'll go.
That's the best of battle.
Put my shoes on.
Elizabeth Bowman (25:31):
Yeah, I mean same same with the runners out
there.
If they say they'll run onemile, then they'll do more.
Christian Van Horn (25:37):
Right, yeah, oh, they're going to do five
miles today.
Okay, 12 later, you know.
Elizabeth Bowman (25:40):
Yeah, but yeah , no, I think that this plays, I
mean the nutrition, the likeyou say control the variables
you can control.
Christian Van Horn (25:49):
Yes.
Elizabeth Bowman (25:49):
Nutrition and then some movement in your life
will bring a great deal ofconfidence.
Oh yeah, and then obviously,the same discipline to your
craft.
So the practice.
Christian Van Horn (26:03):
You know we're lucky to do this for a
living.
Plenty of people don't liketheir jobs.
I think my dad didn't like hisjob and he did it for a long
time and he liked what it gothim.
You know he liked that it tookcare of his family.
But I don't think that heparticularly enjoyed aspects of
his job.
And I get to sing songs andtell stories for a living.
Shame on me if I don't staydisciplined to do that.
There are people that would cutoff their left arm to have a
(26:25):
fraction of my schedule.
How dare I not do everything inmy power to do this as well as
I can?
I'm obsessed with staying inthe game.
Nobody knows when they're goingto have their last show.
We don't know Could be tonight.
It's not going to be because Iwas lazy or because I didn't
respect it or didn't appreciatewhat I had.
Elizabeth Bowman (26:41):
Those are some good words.
I want to take this in adifferent direction as we wrap
up the conversation.
What do you think they shouldbe teaching in performing arts
programs for the upcomingperformers, whether they be a
singer or I've been asked this alot.
Christian Van Horn (26:57):
It's a good question.
The foundation needs to besolid.
I'm surrounded by talent.
Everybody I know is a greatsinger.
There's nobody around me thatisn't a great singer.
This is already done.
The foundation is clearly beingtaught to young singers.
They can sing.
If they're standing next to me,they can sing.
If you would like to stand downfront further, your voice must
be unique.
(27:17):
There's a lot of cookie cutterto the sound, the quality of the
sound.
There's a lot of generic,perfect techniques, if you will.
I adjudicated a competition atthe Eastman School of Music last
month and I was the sole judge,and so I got to pick.
The parameters were mine and Ididn't give the award to the
most technically sound singers.
I gave the awards to the onesthat made me feel something.
(27:39):
That's what we have to aim for.
It's a hard thing to teachstudents to let go, but the one
that I gave the first prize tomade me cry.
If you can do that, you got achance in this business.
If you can make people feel yougot a real chance.
We need to teach people to gothere.
Go to that place, make it real.
Don't apologize.
There's an element of apologyin what we do, because I think
(28:03):
we're surrounded by too manypeople telling us we're wrong.
Once you sort of accept thatyou have something to offer
every chance you get.
If you're good at this onelittle thing, lean into that
with all your might.
Tony Griffey made me cry when Iwent to see him sing.
Erin Morley makes me cry when Ihear her sing.
There's, there's something inthose performances where they
(28:24):
could crack the high note.
I don't care for one second,but because they've made me feel
something, I go.
That's what I want to be.
I want people to feel something.
The technique is there.
Everybody sings well, that'snot get past that.
Think beyond that.
That's what I hope they'reteaching the kids, especially
because they seem to have totrain 10 more years than I did.
If you have to go 10 more yearsto become an artist, become an
(28:45):
artist.
We've got plenty of singers.
We don't need any more singers.
We really don't.
Elizabeth Bowman (28:49):
That brings us full circle, because you can't
convey a message without knowingwho you are yourself.
Christian Van Horn (28:57):
That's true, you have to live a little bit.
Elizabeth Bowman (28:59):
Yeah, having the confidence to speak.
So that's, that's through yourvoice.
And so all of this, all of thistalk that we've had about
confidence and authenticity andreally cutting through, I always
say honesty resonates andthat's really it, like that is
the X factor.
That's where someone is comingthrough unfiltered and saying
(29:22):
what they want to say, insteadof in their head thinking, okay,
I've got my high note coming up, okay, I'm going to, I'm going
to let that stuff go.
Yeah, you have to let it go andreally focus on the message when
the performance comes around,and you know I tell the story as
clearly as you can.
Christian Van Horn (29:39):
If you believe it, they'll believe it
Exactly.
Elizabeth Bowman (29:42):
I want to thank you so much for being on
the podcast today.
Christian Van Horn (29:45):
My pleasure.
I love talking shop.
I love talking the operabusiness, music business, show
business, branding business thisstuff excites me and we live in
a great time where we're thestorytellers.
We're not waiting for people totell our stories, we're telling
them.
I'm turned on by anybody who'sin this field.
I'm happy to chat with you.
Elizabeth Bowman (30:03):
Yeah, I wanted you to be on the podcast, in
particular because you exemplifythis.
Christian Van Horn (30:10):
Oh, thank you, I hope so.
Elizabeth Bowman (30:11):
From the outside.
I can see your channels, I cansee everything.
Christian Van Horn (30:16):
I have help Believe me.
It takes a village.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
Hi, I'm Elizabeth Bowman and welcome to
the Scene Room.
Today I have bass baritoneChristian Van Horn here.
He is a regular with operacompanies all over the world,
currently singing with ParisOpera, and I've seen him many
times on the Metropolitan OperaStage.
He also has a very successfulpodcast, the CVH Podcast.
(00:21):
Today we talk about the operaindustry, what emerging artists
are facing as they carve outtheir careers in today's climate
, and more.
If you're enjoying the podcast,please do not hesitate to like,
share, review, do all thelittle things to help keep these
conversations going.
We really appreciate it.
(00:42):
And now let's get to theconversation.
Christian, welcome to the sceneroom.
Thanks so much for coming.
Christian Van Horn (00:48):
Thank you for having me Glad to be here.
Elizabeth Bowman (00:50):
Where are we podcasting from?
Christian Van Horn (00:52):
I am sitting in my apartment in Paris right
now.
Elizabeth Bowman (00:55):
And what are you doing in Paris?
Christian Van Horn (00:57):
I'm in the middle of the Don Carlos at the
Paris Opera.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:00):
I've heard so many great things about that
production and your About theproduction All right.
Well, in particular about yourperformance in that production I
, you know, I haven't seen theproduction.
Christian Van Horn (01:13):
It's my first fill-up, yeah, and it's
been going great.
You know, I think I waited 25years to finally sing this one
and it's going according to plan.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:20):
That's great, and when's it running?
Until?
Christian Van Horn (01:22):
April 24th is the last performance.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:25):
So not much longer.
Paris is run by my old boss,Alexander Neef.
Christian Van Horn (01:30):
He runs it well boy.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:32):
I used to be his executive assistant.
Christian Van Horn (01:34):
Is that right?
Elizabeth Bowman (01:35):
Yeah, in 2009, 2010, when he came to the
Canadian Opera Company.
So, yeah, we worked veryclosely together.
Christian Van Horn (01:43):
Alexander's great.
He's just one of the bestSurprising you know for a young
man.
I guess he's young.
I mean, I say young but he'sbasically my age, but he runs it
.
He runs it like he was born todo it.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:54):
Yeah, when he came to Toronto for the Canadian
opera job, he was only 34.
Christian Van Horn (01:59):
So Right he still kind of looks 34.
He's amazing, he's not aging.
I played Mephistopheles a lotin Faust and I'm not so sure
he'd make a deal with somebody.
He looks good.
Elizabeth Bowman (02:09):
I want to talk to you.
I'm sure you're on podcasts andradio interviews all the time
talking about your career andyour journey in voice and stuff.
I want to talk to you moreabout the state of the industry
right now.
That's way more interesting.
(02:29):
So I'm going to start with thepath of young artists today and
how it differed from your pathas an artist.
So what it takes for emergingsingers now to carve out a
sustainable career, in youropinion, in today's industry.
Christian Van Horn (02:42):
Honestly, I think I was too dumb to know how
hard it was at the time and Ihad a pretty standard go.
How that compares to today I'mnot real sure.
I went from grad school toyoung artist program, to
regional work, to a Festcontract, to international work
and it all sort of happened intwo-year intervals and it seemed
like every time I was placed anew spot I kind of leveled up to
(03:02):
ready me for the next place andthat was idyllic.
Today the kids are, they'reyoung artists until their late
30s.
I can't even fathom that.
I think any young singer doingit now really wants it, because
they're setting themselves upfor a much longer process than I
did.
That's not to say that I didn'tgo through a long process.
It was a long time beforeanybody knew who I was, but I
(03:23):
was at least being paid to singpretty early on.
You know, by the time I leftChicago as a young artist in
2006, I was a working musician.
I've never had any other jobbut singing since college.
It just went the way it seemedit was supposed to.
Nowadays the kids are.
They go from graduate programto graduate program.
They have to go to a youngartist.
You know some of them arepaying to sing.
I can't even, you know, likethese god-awful pay-to-sing
(03:44):
things.
And then young artists untilthey're 35, I had people cover
me as young artists who werejust a few years younger than me
.
It's mind-blowing.
If you see a singer going forit today, they really want it.
There's nobody doing it halfway.
And if they are doing ithalfway they're going to learn
pretty quick that this is notfor them.
(04:25):
No-transcript You're lucky toget a few a year, especially
when you're a student.
You know, I think when I was ingrad school you had four opera
performances total, a recital, acouple of master classes.
You were lucky to sing in frontof people.
We had studio class, which noteverybody took advantage of, but
I tried to.
If there was studio class, Iforced myself to sing.
(04:45):
Just because you need therepetitions of performing in
front of people.
I get weary of anybody who wantsyou to pay to sing, but at the
same time, if you don't have anyother opportunity, I guess it's
a viable route.
You know, I remember thecomedian Seth Rogan and he was
talking to Jerry Seinfeld andJerry asked him if he had done
any standup and he says oh yeah,I did stand up when I first
started in comedy and he says Ithought I wanted to be a standup
comedian until I met somebodywho really wanted to be a
(05:07):
standup comedian.
And so I think I think thatreally pertains to what we do
that if you're not fullyobsessed, fully in, fully ready
to say yes to almost anything,it's going to be tough.
It's going to be tough becausethere's, there are people
willing, willing, ready and able, and some people are ready to
pay to sing to get thatexperience and I can't fault
them, I can't fault people fortrying anything.
Elizabeth Bowman (05:28):
It sort of reminds me of.
So my background is in PR andmarketing and that kind of thing
.
But there was this magazine,which I won't name, that would
write to me and ask if I wantedto pay for CD reviews.
You know, preview articles.
Christian Van Horn (05:44):
Can they be good cd reviews yeah, no, they.
Elizabeth Bowman (05:48):
They basically say between the lines that it's
like wink, wink, here's yourreview and you just pay us five
I write it too yeah five, sixhundred dollars and we'll
publish this review for you.
Christian Van Horn (06:05):
Oh, it's the end of the world.
Elizabeth Bowman (06:07):
Yeah, and this was happening.
Like 10 years ago this washappening, so not I mean, that's
a long time and it's gottenworse now because now there's
social media and influencers.
Christian Van Horn (06:21):
I've given up on reviews.
I've given up on somebody elsedoing any PR for us.
I think we can be the media now.
That's why I have my ownpodcast, that's why I have in
charge of all of my socialchannels, that's why I have help
with all of my social channels.
We are the media now.
I'm not going to wait for arecord company or an opera house
or anyone, frankly, to try anddo my bidding because they're
(06:41):
just they're not interested.
It's not a thing anymore.
Elizabeth Bowman (06:49):
Exactly, try and do my bidding, because
they're just, they're notinterested, it's not a thing
anymore.
Exactly, but yes, we werespeaking, before we turned the
mics on, about authenticity andthis idea that this publication
was known within the innercircles maybe not the outer
circles of being this sort ofcorrupt magazine and if you did
have a review or a preview inthat magazine then people would
know that you paid to play, andso there's this element of it
(07:18):
showed you were serious to playand all of this talk of equality
and diversity and you know,within the programs and emerging
artists and and this kind ofthing, and then having to pay
thousands of dollars for theseprograms yeah which obviously
only a certain portion canafford.
(07:40):
It doesn't play into theequality well,
Christian Van Horn (07:44):
I'm not sure that it was meant to.
But, um, the all inclusive partof classical music is an
important conversation.
I'm of the position, be itcorrect or not, that best
audition, best cellist, bestmaestro, best director should
always win.
Yeah, and that should never bebased on any other factor,
anything, anything other thanthat, and I think you're losing
(08:05):
the quality of the product.
Is there an imbalance?
For sure there is.
Is it being corrected?
I hope so.
I only want the best thing outthere at all times, regardless
of any other mitigating factor.
That's not the time we live in,maybe, but I think we're
starting that correction isrighting itself a little bit.
It was certainly imbalanced,that's for sure, but give it
more time before it looks better.
I think they put a big bandaidon it.
(08:26):
Didn't really address theproblem.
Elizabeth Bowman (08:28):
No, I'm just saying that these programs don't
necessarily play into thesolution.
Christian Van Horn (08:32):
No, I don't think so.
Yeah, and then it puts people ata disadvantage, obviously, who
might be extremely talented.
I wouldn't tell anybody to payto sing.
I wouldn't tell anybody to payto get reviewed.
I don't think you can reallystop talent.
I don't think talent's going toget missed.
I don't think we've ever had apaparotti slip through our
(08:53):
fingers.
You know what I mean.
I think if you're great, you'llbe heard.
I remember my former agentwho's retired now and we were
together for over 20 years, andshe said I didn't like singers
who cold called me because if Iwas supposed to know about you I
would.
And that's a harsh reality, butit's the truth, and so I don't
think real talent is ever goingto get missed.
Are there opportunities earlyon that could advance things
(09:14):
faster?
For sure, For sure, that's true.
But the best is not going toget swept under the rug Never.
Elizabeth Bowman (09:19):
Especially now , as you say you are the news,
like you the royal, you are thenews.
You are empowered with yourchannels to get your message
across.
Christian Van Horn (09:31):
If you are putting your performances online
in a way that you are satisfiedwith that, I like being in
control of it, that if yousearch my name, the first 15
things to show up is somethingthat I'm in control of.
I think we're foolish not to bein control of it.
Why would you let anybody elsehandle your brand?
We live in a time where we canbe in charge of what's seen and
(09:51):
not seen for the most part.
Look, if I have a bad night andsomebody takes a video and puts
it on YouTube, that's you know.
I have no control over that,but the major thing is where we
go for information about someone.
I think you're foolish not tocontrol it, and it's easily
handled.
Elizabeth Bowman (10:03):
Speaking of how you control your narrative
and your content when you'reworking within these big opera
houses, which you do and theyhave, like what are the rules in
place for how much you can filmthe?
Christian Van Horn (10:17):
rules are getting loose.
It used to be pretty hardcorewhen I started.
I'll tell you how old I amNobody had a camera in rehearsal
.
There was no cell phone, sothere was no camera, and on
occasion, somebody might have adigital recording device or even
a tape recording device, if youcan imagine and these things
were frowned upon big time theunions had a stranglehold on
(10:38):
what could be recorded.
If we're not selling our musicin my case, with every breath
it's just not going to be found.
Otherwise, we don't haverecording companies.
Nobody's making money offrecordings Literally nobody.
It's a completely futileendeavor, and so if somebody
takes a little 20 second clip ina rehearsal and it puts it up
(10:59):
on their Instagram, and thatgets a ton of traffic, 20,000
people look at it in three daysand it sells a few tickets.
Thank God, we need that.
We absolutely need that.
And so there was a time whereyou could not pull out a cell
phone and take a video.
They give you a book of rules.
As soon as you walk in the roomand say the following things
you can't do, people are kind ofturning a blind eye to it.
(11:19):
Now we can put out a lot more,and if somebody doesn't want you
to put it out or somebody inhindsight wants you to take it
down.
Probably it's already been seen.
We're having a hard timecontrolling video.
Now Everybody's got a camera intheir hands.
Everything's being captured.
Opening night of Don Carlo here.
Look, 20 videos show up onYouTube within an hour of the
curtain.
To try and get all those down,anybody who's interested has
(11:42):
probably already seen it, and soI like that.
It's loosening.
I think we need to scout whatwe do.
I think every time somebodyopens up their cell phone, I
hope they see what we do,whether it's me or somebody else
, or just like repeating thatthis is great, the message that
this is worthwhile, this artform is worth looking at and
worth enjoying and worthinvesting in or even having your
(12:03):
first look at.
I think we have to repeat thatwith every breath because it
will go away.
If you don't live in somebody'scell phone, you don't really
exist in that business.
You exist in the world.
Your friends and families loveyou, but if you want to exist in
the classical world, you haveto exist on somebody's phone.
It's this dumb.
I'm absolutely convinced it'sthis stupid.
Elizabeth Bowman (12:22):
I talk about this particular thing on the
episode that will air the weekbefore your episode with David
Lamelli, because I've had a lotof experience.
David's a big believer.
Christian Van Horn (12:31):
He's a big believer in this and he taught
me a lot of what I know.
I mean, he's a huge proponentof say it as many times as you
can.
Elizabeth Bowman (12:38):
My experience is backstage as a publicist.
I mean publicists tend not tobe liked that much, or they in
the past, I mean because wewanted to push the envelope and
cover these.
Christian Van Horn (12:51):
yeah, well you guys had the ideas.
You were like let's thinkoutside the box.
How can we say this again?
You know, we're trying to saythe same thing in as many ways
as possible to bring as manypeople to the table.
We are people, are storytellers, and that's our story needs to
be told if you want to stay, ifyou want to keep going, if you
want to grow.
I try to remember that this isa business.
I'm running a business and onceI realized that my socials
(13:14):
weren't for my friends andfamily, but they were for my
business.
It was a lot easier.
It was all this pressure wasoff and just said yes, how do I
bring as many people to thetable as possible?
Elizabeth Bowman (13:22):
That's a good reframing of how to create your
content.
I want to ask you, going in adifferent direction now.
Concert formats they've beenthe same for well, I don't know
how long, for a long time wherewe arrive and then we have, you
know, our first half usually,and then there's an intermission
, and then the second half, andeven with the repertoire choices
(13:45):
, you know you start with Bachand then you start moving
through the periods and then bythe end you have your party song
.
Christian Van Horn (13:54):
You nailed it.
That's Recital 101.
Elizabeth Bowman (13:56):
So I just want to ask you.
I mean, we're trying toinnovate, trying to bring in new
audiences, trying new things.
Is it time to tackle theconcert format?
Christian Van Horn (14:07):
I think we absolutely have to.
I never like to go.
No, that's not true.
I saw Brain Tarrifle sing supersongs at Carnegie Hall 25 years
ago and it was a religiousexperience and it was sold out.
I don't believe the Americanaudience, the American audience
wants this anymore.
I think you have a hard timekeeping their attention.
I think they want to be a partof it.
There's an interactive natureto what we do.
(14:27):
They want to be involved, beinvested.
They want to know the artists,they want to know, they want to
engage personally in a lot ofways and I have something in the
works now where I'm going to bedoing half recital of music.
I love, not necessarilyclassical music, but with my
voice.
That's going to be the firsthalf and the second half is
going to be a live podcast.
I've told enough of my audienceto know that they would show up
(14:48):
for this and we're going to runthe podcast as just as I do in
my home studio here.
But we're going to do it for alive audience and we're going to
have that interaction, thatinterface, that that
communication.
We've got to try something.
There are artists who can goand sing Vinterreise and get a
sold out audience.
The number of people that cando that is becoming less and
less in the States.
That's something that can do alittle bit better in Europe, a
(15:10):
lot better.
But to get people to show up toa concert in America, we have
to start thinking outside thebox for sure.
I don't think there's any otherway.
Let's try it all you know.
If it doesn't work, it doesn'twork.
Elizabeth Bowman (15:21):
I love that idea and I actually want to ask
you about your podcast, becauseI think that that is such a
great way to connect with youraudience and it brings out many
layers in that you'reinterviewing a lot of your
colleagues there.
What inspired you to start thepodcast in the first place?
Christian Van Horn (15:43):
Well, I did during COVID and I needed a
place to vent.
I needed to connect to theaudience.
I needed to use my voice.
I felt silenced.
We all did.
This is years ago now.
I'm not complaining about COVID,but it was time to try new
things and I got the absolutebest equipment money could buy
because I needed it to soundgood.
(16:03):
If a podcast doesn't sound good, it does not have my interest,
and so I made sure to get thehighest end microphones and
until I had a guest in the room,it was just me, and I still do
plenty episodes.
That's just me and we catch upon what's going on or whatever I
want to talk about.
I rarely have a plan.
I do not have talking points.
I turn the microphones on and Igo.
They're all about 20, 25minutes long and then, if I have
a guest, it could go for anhour, two hours.
(16:25):
I've gone three hours.
You know it's not unusual ifwe're having a good time.
It surprised me.
The initial interest didn'tsurprise me because everybody
was searching for something, butthe growth since then has been
phenomenal.
I think that I've connectedwith the audience in a way that
I get a lot of messages about itand people want to continue the
conversation.
What I hear more than anythingelse is people say I feel like
(16:45):
I'm sitting there with you.
I feel like I'm at the tablewith friends and we're laughing
and we're talking and I can'timagine a better compliment.
I want it to be that welcomingand that natural, because that's
all it is.
It's just me sitting with afriend.
We turn on the microphones andwe talk as if you know, some
people are uncomfortable and youhave to like, lean into it and
work into it.
But once you just realizeyou're chatting with a pal with
(17:07):
genuine interest in what they'redoing, it's show business
central.
I don't have just singers, Ihave actors or comedians and
we're just talking about showbusiness and we love it, we're
obsessed with it.
I'm obsessed with show businessand all its facets, and so when
you're fascinated withsomething and you're talking
with other people fascinatedwith it, you can't help but to
engage.
People want to be a part of it.
They want to hear what you'reso excited about.
(17:27):
Plenty of my people that listenhave nothing to do with
classical music.
Elizabeth Bowman (17:31):
Has the podcast changed the way that you
look at your career or theindustry in general?
Christian Van Horn (17:37):
It's a great question.
It gave me power.
It gave me power to be me and Ithink in turn, without sounding
too pretentious, that I tookthe confidence of being able to
just be me.
I was just me on the podcast,without any filter, and it was
popular, and so I said you needto do this in your performance.
You need to do exactly what youthink you're supposed to do and
not really worry about whatsomebody else's idea of what
(17:59):
you're supposed to do is.
And in that way, as an artist,I became free and I'm certain
that I grew as an artist becauseI just decided just do your
podcast.
Your performance is your podcast.
Yes, we have to honor what's onthe page, we have to honor the
music, we have to honor thecomposer.
We're doing all of those things.
But when it came to thestorytelling part, I said it's
me or they can find somebodyelse that has paid tremendous
(18:21):
dividends and just talking for275 episodes, you lose your fear
of being you, and that's what Ithink a lot of performers have.
They're scared of being you,and that's what I think a lot of
performers have.
They're scared of beingthemselves.
They're pretending to be asinger or they're pretending to
be an actor or they'repretending to be a character.
So just don't pretend it.
Be it Actually.
Be it in that moment.
Make it real.
If you need to cry, cry.
(18:41):
If you need to laugh out loud,laugh out loud.
That was the everything changedfor me in that journey of the
podcast.
It's an odd thing to say, butit opened as many doors as
anybody I've met along the way.
Elizabeth Bowman (18:52):
It's ironic that it's the hardest thing to
teach to just be yourself, andI've also been through this
journey of learning to be myself, you know, and I feel like I've
only really concretelysucceeded in this in my 40s.
Christian Van Horn (19:07):
You know it, you know when you're doing it
because it feels good.
Elizabeth Bowman (19:10):
Yeah.
Christian Van Horn (19:10):
It feels correct.
I think so often we spend somuch time in training, right?
Especially as a classicalmusician for 15 years, I was
surrounded by people telling mehow terrible I was.
You're constantly beingcorrected.
You're in rehearsal even today,and people are a little more
nervous to walk up to me andtell me small things, but I'm
still bombarded with peoplesaying this needs to be like the
(19:32):
little.
There's 85 people in the roomjustifying a paycheck, trying to
tell you how to be better andyou go.
You know what?
Everybody be quiet.
Everybody be quiet.
This is going to go very well.
If I'm just me, I had tosilence a lot of that or filter
it.
Take it in respectfully andfilter it.
We're trained to think thatwe're doing it wrong, so that
when you do have a personal idea, you go oh, maybe that's wrong,
(19:53):
maybe my instincts are wrong,not at this point.
You're not going to be anartist for 25 years and not have
something good to say.
You wouldn't have made it thisfar.
Elizabeth Bowman (20:01):
I wasn't going to ask you about this, but it
does sort of tie in to thisauthenticity point.
You're obviously very fit.
I see that you're very fitSmoking mirrors.
But you do have a commitment toyour health and wellness, and
this also plays into the role ofconfidence.
Christian Van Horn (20:20):
Absolutely being comfortable in your body
is a big part of that.
Sure.
Elizabeth Bowman (20:23):
Yeah.
So can I ask has this alwaysbeen part of your life, or is
this something that you sort ofdoubled down on at a certain
point?
Christian Van Horn (20:31):
Yeah, I mean , I've always I've had a gym
membership for God knows howlong I believed in exercise.
For sure I come from athletesand so you know there's not a
job in this world that is notimproved by you being healthier.
I'm not a dancer, but you knowlike I certainly take care of
how I look More because it's oneof the few things in this
business that you can control.
(20:53):
My views may be controversial.
Some people say, oh, I can't, Idon't want to lift weights
because you know it would hurtmy voice.
I don't partake in that at all.
If you feel healthy, you singhealthy, and as long as you're
not lifting more than you shouldor grunting or something like
this, you should be just fine.
With lightweight training, Uh,I had to do a show where I was
half dressed for a good portionof the show and that put the
(21:14):
fear of God in me.
And it wasn't that I wasn't fit.
I was, but I didn't look halfdressed ready for thousands.
And what I?
My?
My worst fear came true.
But I had my worst fear eightmonths prior, so I fixed it.
And my worst fear was that I wasgoing to be half dressed on the
cover of the New York times,and that is exactly what
happened there.
I was half dressed in the coverof the art section of the New
(21:37):
York times and thank God that Iwas happy with the way I looked.
I wasn't entirely happy, but Iwas way, but I was happy with
what I had done to that point.
And look, we're paid to belooked at and listened to.
I think it's crazy to not tryand look presentable.
There are some people who singso well they can look like
(21:57):
anything, or they singrepertoire.
That's so impossible that onlytwo people do it that they can
look the way they look, but thesecond those genres get flooded.
You're going to see even theWagnerians start to look like
models, because it's that nextaspect that makes you stand out.
It might not be for everybody,but I can attest to how it pays
(22:17):
out for me.
Elizabeth Bowman (22:18):
I also work out quite a bit.
I'm a runner, I run a lot, butI started out I was recovering
from a surgery shortly after thepandemic and it actually gave
me license to slow right down,because when you're recovering
from surgery, there's no ego inthe equation right.
Our egos get the best of us.
(22:39):
Yes, they do.
Yeah, we're like, oh, I'm goingto start running.
So then you start, you justlike run out the door and you
know, and, and get injured andget humbled.
But I started by speed walkingand now you know I'm about to
run my third marathon.
Christian Van Horn (22:58):
Oh, amazing.
I'm so impressed by marathonrunners, so impressed.
Elizabeth Bowman (23:02):
Yeah, I mean thank you, but it's the whole,
the whole process of it.
It's.
It is this like spiritual thingfor I think, most marathoners
or runners in general, thetraining aspect of it.
It's, it's not, it's mostlyabout mental health, I think.
Christian Van Horn (23:19):
Yeah.
Elizabeth Bowman (23:21):
And this whole journey because I started
running three just over threeyears ago and I also quit
drinking.
Christian Van Horn (23:29):
Yeah, good one.
Elizabeth Bowman (23:30):
Smart, so I feel good.
I feel great, but I just it'ssort of want.
It's like I want people to knowlike all you need to do is get
out there and speed walk andthen just spend some time
outside.
It will change your life, evenif you commit to even two miles
of speed walking.
Christian Van Horn (23:50):
Oh, just taking a walk every day is
better than not taking a walkevery day.
Elizabeth Bowman (23:55):
Yeah.
Christian Van Horn (23:55):
You know how simple is it to put your shoes
on and go outside.
You know, yeah, I don't everthink that anybody needs to be
turned into a fitness model.
That's for some people.
I like to feel strong.
I hurt my back last year in aperformance in a rehearsal where
I threw myself on the groundand I pinched a nerve in my
lower back and I was laid up forfive days and then I faked that
I was okay, but I wasn't okay.
(24:17):
I finally tookanti-inflammatory drugs to calm
this down.
I was in so much pain and thedoctor and it was over here in
France.
And the doctor said you are 46years old.
Most people don't throwthemselves on the ground for
three hours during a rehearsal.
It just doesn't happen.
You're moving in a way that'snot very age appropriate.
And she said if you were aprofessional athlete you would
have been retired 10 years agoor more.
(24:38):
This is a physical job and evenjust kneeling down on a hard
stage and getting back upswiftly is a challenge.
I sing Escamillo all the timein Carbon.
I did one recently in SanFrancisco and I'm standing on
the table singing the aria andat the end of the aria in the
rehearsal the director says OK,now jump off the table onto the
stage.
I said I would never, I can't.
My jumping off the table daysare over.
(25:00):
It wasn't good for me when Iwas 25 and I'll kill myself now.
And so I work out so that I canmaintain as much as I can, as I
watch those parts get more andmore difficult.
Use it or lose it.
I'm going to work out until I'mdead because it's the only
thing that keeps me getting upin the morning.
It's as much a mental thing asanything else.
I hate going to the gym.
(25:20):
I hate it, but I love leavingthe gym having gone.
I love that part, and so Iremember that part when I'm,
when I'm struggling.
If I put my shoes on, I'll go.
That's the best of battle.
Put my shoes on.
Elizabeth Bowman (25:31):
Yeah, I mean same same with the runners out
there.
If they say they'll run onemile, then they'll do more.
Christian Van Horn (25:37):
Right, yeah, oh, they're going to do five
miles today.
Okay, 12 later, you know.
Elizabeth Bowman (25:40):
Yeah, but yeah , no, I think that this plays, I
mean the nutrition, the likeyou say control the variables
you can control.
Christian Van Horn (25:49):
Yes.
Elizabeth Bowman (25:49):
Nutrition and then some movement in your life
will bring a great deal ofconfidence.
Oh yeah, and then obviously,the same discipline to your
craft.
So the practice.
Christian Van Horn (26:03):
You know we're lucky to do this for a
living.
Plenty of people don't liketheir jobs.
I think my dad didn't like hisjob and he did it for a long
time and he liked what it gothim.
You know he liked that it tookcare of his family.
But I don't think that heparticularly enjoyed aspects of
his job.
And I get to sing songs andtell stories for a living.
Shame on me if I don't staydisciplined to do that.
There are people that would cutoff their left arm to have a
(26:25):
fraction of my schedule.
How dare I not do everything inmy power to do this as well as
I can?
I'm obsessed with staying inthe game.
Nobody knows when they're goingto have their last show.
We don't know Could be tonight.
It's not going to be because Iwas lazy or because I didn't
respect it or didn't appreciatewhat I had.
Elizabeth Bowman (26:41):
Those are some good words.
I want to take this in adifferent direction as we wrap
up the conversation.
What do you think they shouldbe teaching in performing arts
programs for the upcomingperformers, whether they be a
singer or I've been asked this alot.
Christian Van Horn (26:57):
It's a good question.
The foundation needs to besolid.
I'm surrounded by talent.
Everybody I know is a greatsinger.
There's nobody around me thatisn't a great singer.
This is already done.
The foundation is clearly beingtaught to young singers.
They can sing.
If they're standing next to me,they can sing.
If you would like to stand downfront further, your voice must
be unique.
(27:17):
There's a lot of cookie cutterto the sound, the quality of the
sound.
There's a lot of generic,perfect techniques, if you will.
I adjudicated a competition atthe Eastman School of Music last
month and I was the sole judge,and so I got to pick.
The parameters were mine and Ididn't give the award to the
most technically sound singers.
I gave the awards to the onesthat made me feel something.
(27:39):
That's what we have to aim for.
It's a hard thing to teachstudents to let go, but the one
that I gave the first prize tomade me cry.
If you can do that, you got achance in this business.
If you can make people feel yougot a real chance.
We need to teach people to gothere.
Go to that place, make it real.
Don't apologize.
There's an element of apologyin what we do, because I think
(28:03):
we're surrounded by too manypeople telling us we're wrong.
Once you sort of accept thatyou have something to offer
every chance you get.
If you're good at this onelittle thing, lean into that
with all your might.
Tony Griffey made me cry when Iwent to see him sing.
Erin Morley makes me cry when Ihear her sing.
There's, there's something inthose performances where they
(28:24):
could crack the high note.
I don't care for one second,but because they've made me feel
something, I go.
That's what I want to be.
I want people to feel something.
The technique is there.
Everybody sings well, that'snot get past that.
Think beyond that.
That's what I hope they'reteaching the kids, especially
because they seem to have totrain 10 more years than I did.
If you have to go 10 more yearsto become an artist, become an
(28:45):
artist.
We've got plenty of singers.
We don't need any more singers.
We really don't.
Elizabeth Bowman (28:49):
That brings us full circle, because you can't
convey a message without knowingwho you are yourself.
Christian Van Horn (28:57):
That's true, you have to live a little bit.
Elizabeth Bowman (28:59):
Yeah, having the confidence to speak.
So that's, that's through yourvoice.
And so all of this, all of thistalk that we've had about
confidence and authenticity andreally cutting through, I always
say honesty resonates andthat's really it, like that is
the X factor.
That's where someone is comingthrough unfiltered and saying
(29:22):
what they want to say, insteadof in their head thinking, okay,
I've got my high note coming up, okay, I'm going to, I'm going
to let that stuff go.
Yeah, you have to let it go andreally focus on the message when
the performance comes around,and you know I tell the story as
clearly as you can.
Christian Van Horn (29:39):
If you believe it, they'll believe it
Exactly.
Elizabeth Bowman (29:42):
I want to thank you so much for being on
the podcast today.
Christian Van Horn (29:45):
My pleasure.
I love talking shop.
I love talking the operabusiness, music business, show
business, branding business thisstuff excites me and we live in
a great time where we're thestorytellers.
We're not waiting for people totell our stories, we're telling
them.
I'm turned on by anybody who'sin this field.
I'm happy to chat with you.
Elizabeth Bowman (30:03):
Yeah, I wanted you to be on the podcast, in
particular because you exemplifythis.
Christian Van Horn (30:10):
Oh, thank you, I hope so.
Elizabeth Bowman (30:11):
From the outside.
I can see your channels, I cansee everything.
Christian Van Horn (30:16):
I have help Believe me.
It takes a village.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
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