April 10, 2025 • 45 mins
When David Lomelí's blossoming career as a tenor was cut short by severe health issues, he didn't leave opera—he transformed how it works from behind the scenes. This conversation takes us through his remarkable journey from a naturally gifted singer in Mexico to becoming one of opera's most influential casting directors and artistic leaders.
Lomelí brings remarkable candor to his discussion of opera's business realities. Having seen the industry from both sides of the curtain, he reveals how financial pressures increasingly drive artistic decisions, with programming often shaped more by donor interests than artistic vision (in the bigger houses). His insider perspective on casting illuminates the delicate balance between artistic integrity and economic survival that defines the contemporary opera scene.
As a self-described "specialist shopper" of vocal talent who now consults for multiple major companies, Lomelí takes us into the nerve center of opera production. He shares the challenges of assembling the perfect cast when dealing with complex scheduling, budget limitations, and the competing visions of conductors, directors, and administrators. His stories from the "room where it happens" offer rare insights into how artistic decisions are actually made.
Perhaps most compelling is Lomelí's passionate advocacy for industry-wide transformation. He makes a compelling case for opera to revolutionize its approach to media, marketing, and audience engagement—proposing an "Olympic Committee of Opera" that could unite companies worldwide under collective promotion and corporate sponsorship. His vision for opera's future embraces technological innovation and transparency while honoring the extraordinary artistry that makes this form so powerful.
Whether you're a performer seeking to understand the casting process, an arts administrator grappling with financial challenges, or simply a lover of opera curious about its inner workings, this conversation will transform how you see the art form. Listen now and join the movement to reimagine opera for a new generation.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Elizabeth Bowman (00:00):
Hi, I'm Elizabeth Bowman and welcome to
the Scene Room.
Today I'm talking to DavidLomeli.
David's journey in thisindustry is nothing short of
remarkable, starting as a singer, then transitioning behind the
scenes to become one of the mostinfluential artistic leaders in
opera today.
From his groundbreaking work atthe Dallas Opera and Bavarian
(00:20):
State Opera to his leadership atSanta Fe Opera as chief
artistic officer, david hasconsistently championed artistic
excellence and true diversityin our field.
Now, through Lomeli Consulting,he's expanding his impact even
further.
We had a really greatconversation today about the
industry, what could be improved, what is the state of things,
(00:44):
and I think we could have mademany more podcast episodes.
If you're enjoying the podcast,please like, share, review, do
all those free things.
I really appreciate it.
It helps keep these wonderfulconversations going and I'm
really grateful for the responseso far to season one.
Now let's get to it.
(01:04):
David, welcome to the sceneroom.
Thanks so much for coming.
David Lomelí (01:07):
Thanks for having me.
I've been a fan since thelaunch.
I've just been getting more andmore, and all your insiders
combo and I said thank you forcreating this.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:15):
I'm really excited to talk to you because
you have such an interestingbackground, like first as a
performer and then in castingand then also as an arts
administrator, so you reallycover a lot of ground here, like
everything that we cover herein the scene room.
So it's really wonderful totalk to you.
Can we start at the beginning,as I like to with all my guests?
(01:37):
I'd love to know your journey.
How did you even get into operain the first place, and then
also, how did you transitioninto these different facets of
the industry?
David Lomelí (01:48):
I am originally.
I was born in Mexico Citymiddle class family.
My mom and my grandmother weresingers, were very good, natural
singers, that they have certainkind of instruction and they
pass their follow.
You know their how to breathe,how to place a couple things.
And since I was a baby, andagain, the mexican spanish if
you hear me speak spanish in mymexico city accent is super high
(02:12):
and it just plays the voiceright there.
I just said like most of thetenors from mexico are from
mexico city or below.
Most of them latul chacon islike the exception, but but
everybody else is from belowbecause we put the, the voice
there.
You know so very early since Iwas a kiddo, I I knew I could
carry a tune and it was like my,my superpower.
If I would sing in class theywould let me sometimes like
(02:33):
deliver the homework late orsomething.
I was.
I was very gifted in many inmany sense.
My mom, very smart, like, gotus into a school.
That is like there was a veryfancy school for English at
international school and it wasfor like wealthy people.
So she somehow got like a jobthere.
So we got a scholarship andthat is going to start to shape
who I am now, because I went toschool from the beginning with
(02:55):
my donors or the parents of mydonors in many ways.
So I saw them grow up and I sawunderstanding and I didn't know
why, but I was always payingattention.
In that sense and because ofthat I learned English decent
enough, you know, very early.
And because, also, it had theresources I had access to
develop extra skills like mysinging.
Eventually, later I'm agraduate of an engineer degree
(03:17):
in computer science and I have amaster's degree in marketing,
because my parents were alwayslike, have a plan b.
But while I did of that, Ialways performed and I was a
professional artist since I wasa kid.
I did voiceovers for Disney.
When I was a kid I sang withseveral pop bands.
I had my own pop band, so I wasalways learning how to do both.
You know I was a little bitentrepreneurial about working,
(03:37):
having my own money, buying myown car.
You know, don't depend on myparents to do things and still
sing right, like when I was incollege.
They, again the life waspreparing me for my path.
There's a change.
Whatever was the glee club?
And again, my university is avery particular one for tec of
monterrey in mexico that has somuch resources that we had a
2000 seat auditorium and a realorchestra and these guys would
(04:01):
buy like real licenses from realplays from broadway to come to
to Mexico in our theater for arun of eight performances that
we would do and we will do itright.
So with that in training theystarted to create their own
opera orchestra or likesymphonic orchestra and their
own opera company and theyoffered me a full ride for my
engineering degree.
I basically was paid to be anengineer by singing.
I had, they had a lot ofperformances and plays and that
(04:23):
trained me a lot and they wouldgive me a little bit of training
.
Eventually they sent me abroadwhen I did the masters and I had
to also train.
So I met Jose Carreras andMontserrat Caballé in Barcelona
that's where I went to do thedegree and so I eventually
started to see that opera waswhere I was a little bit very
much gifted.
In 2003, the university sent meto a place to sing where a lot
(04:44):
of the coaches of the met werethere in in italy, and they gave
me the role of renu GianniSchicchi and and suddenly I
could see that the graduates ofjuilliard and curtis or msm or
other people were coming in andI was from nowhere, nothing, and
I was the, the lead tenor, andpeople were noticing and
treating me differently, rightlike, and I was like, and where
(05:04):
people were struggling, I wouldfly.
So I started to realize that Iwas significantly gifted.
So by the time that I finishedall the degrees in 2004, I was
jobless and so we had a pop bandwith my friends.
We won a competition of singingand we started recording our
thing.
We did a little bit ofperforming and in a break that
(05:25):
we had from the band I met CesarUlloa that now is a very famous
teacher of voice in SanFrancisco Conservatory, in San
Francisco Opera Penne Patis isone of his guys and he really
grabbed me to the wing.
I met him in Mexico City and inthe Young Artists Program in
Mexico that had helped RollandoVillazon and others, and he said
you know you're really good andI think you should meet Placido
(05:46):
Domingo.
And in 2006, he managed to likecrash an audition for other
people and at one in the morningof 2006, february 6th, I met
Placido and he invited me tojoin LA Opera.
He was founding the very firstDomingo Thornton troupe in 26
and gave me a wildcardinvitation for operalia, like I
didn't have to apply it, he justinvited me.
(06:08):
2006 I moved legally to thestates.
You know there was a big dealfor a mexican to get a visa and
a salary that good.
That was very significant.
My apprentice salary in 2006 itwas equivalent of what my dad
did at his end of the career,monthly, you know, as a banker.
So everybody was like wow, he'smaking it.
I went operalia, like end ofthe career, monthly, you know,
as a banker.
So everybody was like wow, he'smaking it.
I went up earlier like out ofthe bat, like really, with no
(06:28):
real training.
So the day after I landed in LAI met Matthew Epstein that was
manager of many guys famous atthat time and he said, listen, I
want you to stay here for twoyears, even though they're going
to be offers to come, I wantyou to be here and train.
And so I stayed two years there.
It was a very particular erabecause the agreements that
young artists programs havetoday in the United States,
(06:49):
where if you're international,you still play, so you can, you
know, sing Gastone even if youare an Alfredo, right.
But in my case in those years Isang like one role a year
because those were theperformances that Placido would
pay other artists to not sing soI could go on as a lead, you
know so.
But in the meantime, la reallyparaded me like they sent me
everywhere, like from Hollywoodparties to premieres, to you
(07:11):
name it.
Like for two years I sang a lotand they also released me a lot
.
So I went on tour.
I met Duda Mel at 25, likeagain.
I had a really grand life from25 to 32.
I went to train in SanFrancisco where I was an Adler
and a Merla program.
Immediately, pretty much.
I was signed by ColumbiaArtists and Matthew Epstein and
my career was going.
I always paid attention aboutthe business.
(07:33):
You know, during my singingyears, always and sadly, you
know, I always battled withreflux.
But by 2011, I was justincredibly sick.
I was getting really a lot ofpain.
I had to take so much medicineto get through a performance.
I had to be that tenor, thatmark, most of the time Very,
very reclusive in how my sociallife would go If not because
(07:55):
everything would affect mystomach, even though 2010, 2011
were, like my career, years ofengagements.
I debuted in New York and Paris.
Ma plays at a fair with greatsuccess, but I was in pain.
I debuted in New York and ParisI Benny plays at a fair .
I had to kind of put myselftogether every time before going
on and by 2012, I got fired forthe first time in Houston Grand
Opera.
I was literally Violetta no, Iwas.
(08:16):
I was coughing blood on stageand and Diane Zola had to come
in.
We like that, we can, we cannotput you on like you're sick and
that was very devastating.
I was about to get married atthat time, like it was two
months before my marriage.
So A I counted with that moneyto kind of keep my marriage
going.
So that was hard and reallyafter that, like I kind of
(08:36):
switched in desperation,switched teachers and many
things you know, like many otherperformers would do.
And to make the story short, youknow, because it was a long one
of ins and outs, doctors, etcetera.
Eventually I had a very bigproblem that my esophagus was in
the 1% of, like worst esophagusof the world, like they never
close, and so even standing up Iwould get reflux and get burned
.
I was a little bit of cyst,like if I wouldn't have taken
(08:59):
care I would had like majortumors, and so I had to have a
lynx procedure, that thatcreates a like a bionic
esophagus.
But the time that I had thesurgery I had so much burn
around not in my vocal cords,but the vocal cords certainly
had part in a tiny bit.
But now my larynx was so burnedand the nerve connection to the
throat was not happeningproperly, and so eventually what
(09:21):
happened is around my passaggioI couldn't really tune my voice
properly.
That while I sang I hadfamously very good pitch, you
know.
So I was like I think an F andit's coming an E, like why is
that?
So eventually drives you crazy.
And this business, like you know, is so tense and so about like
how good you were yesterday, itdoesn't matter your 10, 20 years
.
And so very fast, you know, ifI couldn't sing in tune, like I
(09:43):
was getting replaced, or in afew couple of engagements they
let me sing, but it was not thesame success by 2014, I still
had like three years ofengagement, so that was just
canceling because I was like Idon't want to expose myself.
So I left a lot of money andmassive debuts in that I that I
had to do it.
But in 2014, I decided to again, after a few in and outs of
(10:04):
different hospitals, to stop andI asked for a job Too many
places.
Nobody gave me a job andeventually Sherry Greenwell from
the Merola program called KeithCerny Turning Dallas Opera, and
that was the CEO at that timeand that's how I ended up in
administration.
I was the assistant of castingof the head of our director of
artistic administration and atthat time in 2014, a lot of the
(10:26):
way that I thought life could be, or administration.
When I arrived, everything waspaper into Dallas.
And I'm a techie, I'm anengineer too, right Like.
So I immediately like createdatabases, move us to DocuSign.
I mean it appeared like I wasmaking a revolution, but for me
it was like this is just Office101, right Like.
And again, I had so muchknowledge and awareness of the
artist's mind that I would seethe artist even in the AGMA
(10:50):
agreements.
You know, I'm like.
Oh, this is because, really,you didn't like your tenor.
You know your friend tenor andthis is why you're creating this
clause to prevent him to joinor like kind of like, why this
was created.
So we can, historically, if wego into an agreement, I could
(11:10):
change it, and my best luck, Ithink, in order to really cement
my way into administration, wasthat at that moment in 2014,
the company was starting aprogram that became now a very
signature program the WomenConductors, the heart program of
Dallas.
They gave me the opportunity tobe the leader of the program,
even if I didn't know a lotabout women conducting, but I
knew how to run things or be aleader and program manager a
couple of things.
And I need launch.
Not only the program or thecompany launched my career too.
(11:31):
I was suddenly more visible, Ihad something exciting.
People would invite me as beingthe first manager of that to to
many other things, and and itexploded.
And and you know, I don't knowI will pass here because I can
tell you until I'm in Santa Fe,but I think it's a good start.
Elizabeth Bowman (11:45):
What a journey .
I like it because you werefaced with such struggles and
then that makes you even moreaware of the levels of the
business, because you obviouslywere marinating in the struggle
and then you were able to breakthrough without necessarily
being aware at the time, I'msure, but that's just how the
(12:08):
greatest things get built.
You see people go through deepstruggle and then champion
something and they don't evensee that until after the fact
where they're.
Like, I had to go through thatin order to achieve this great
thing.
So that's a great story and I'msure we could do a whole
podcast on just this, just thatstory.
(12:28):
I want to ask you about casting, because Absolutely yeah, yeah.
Yeah, this is like somethingthat is somewhat of a mystery, I
think, to some people.
What does the casting directordo?
Of course they cast the roles,but what is the process and what
is the essence of this role?
David Lomelí (12:46):
I think that today is different than what it was
10, 15 years.
You know I see it on theshoulders of legends in my
industry, in my side of theindustry, lik O a Moe Moe,
jonathan Friend, peter Katonathat I learned tremendously from
them of casting patterns ofsound, of what to do, solutions
depending on the conductor,depending if you're going to fix
(13:07):
the soprano, how you castaround.
You know a lot of those things.
I think there's a lot of beingthe nerd of the squad.
You know.
You know every role, you knoweven different versions.
You recall the conductor in1943 that did it in Branch Vi
versus the version that they didin Napoli, and you become that
kind of source that guides alittle bit the process of the
(13:28):
sound or even the artisticoffering.
Because from casting, you know,casting with trovatore A
trovatori means something, butif you cast it with cast B it
means something else.
Or you're going for differenttypes of the piece, right.
But I think today the castingdirector or casting manager,
depending on the position, it'san art form that is hard to keep
because we are affectedtremendously by everything, by
(13:50):
the consequence of economy, ofthe world of technology, of the
way that people's health can.
You're scouting, you're findingpeople and things like that.
But also, I don't know, nowthat I do it for several
organizations I have become likean specialist shopper, like I
(14:12):
do have my sound and I thinkthat that's why people, my
clients, hire me for.
You know, I have a particularway that if you see a cast that
I was involved, there's acertain amount of sound or a
certain amount of excitement inthe casting design.
That that's why people pay meand the service well, we are
doing that service that they arehappy.
You know I have to think aboutthese ways.
So the way that I work thesedays is that I'm part of a team
(14:35):
in everywhere that I work thatnormally includes, for sure, the
general director or theintendant.
In many ways I have acounterpart that is the head of
casting locally or the directorof artistic administration or
some sort of artistic operatorthat really runs the day-to-day
and of course, has to saybecause it's every day with your
audience, every day with yourbackstage knows which voices
kind of sound better in theirtheater.
(14:56):
But maybe they don't have theresources to travel as much as
me, they don't know artists asmuch as me.
I have been an artist myselfand I was to an elite level so I
can learn and I know how toaddress every journey of the guy
you know the, the aging guy,the, the in trouble guy, their
prime time, the strugglingartist coming up, the rising
artist, the chorister, likethose type of guys.
I went from that version rightand and through different
(15:19):
markets too try signing manydifferent markets in different
singing language, differentidiosyncrasies, so I can adapt
pretty fast and in a way I'malso a consequence of the
economy these days thatnon-company can really just have
a guy that just cast andtravels the world and pays them
like $40,000, $50,000 a year toscout worldwide, plus their
salary and health insurance,like just to do that.
(15:40):
Like I wish, because I stillthink that we are the product in
many ways or we determine oraffect the product so much that
that is not, but it's not thecase.
So normally you know likecasting directors in Europe make
40 grand a year.
Of massive opera companies, thebiggest one, the biggest ones
that you can imagine in Europe,are around 100 grand.
That is great if you considermany things.
(16:00):
You can imagine in Europe arearound a hundred grand.
That is great if you considermany things.
But consider what other coachesor director of player personnel
of other industries or sports,and these are the guardians of
the traditions, of how wesuppose the people or a voice
execute, and trendsetters right.
And now we're just part of ateam, you know, like we have
also music directors inside, andmany times other teams decide
to bring the director ofproduction or the funding guy
(16:22):
like director of development,and so I normally am the one
that, like I was told by themanager, you know, I want to do
traviata or master singers andso and he says, like you know,
I'm thinking about doing it alittle bit light chamber sound,
because I'm going to play it inmy, I don't know, in my
alternative space and we're notgoing to have more than 600
(16:42):
people, so don't give me the bigtrivia type of almost like a
chamber sound, because also Icannot put on many people in the
pit, for example.
And so I bring a cast and I feelthat I sometimes I feel like
those reels that are, you know,making fun of different people,
but just play by myself.
And I'm like the generaldirector is like you know, I
(17:07):
have a donor that can pay forlisette oropesa, and you're like
, oh, my god, I have seven showsand of course, lisette oropesa
is in my list, but how can wefit them?
If it's oropesa, then three ofmy tenors don't fit and she,
even if we have that desire, shemight not fit, like she might
not be free right to this period.
And then, you know, I proposedcertain things and the director
of casting said, you know, Iwouldn't want this artist
because he was mean to my stagemanager.
So you readjust and then themusic director says like, oh,
but I want it in like Baroquepitch, so I really want these
(17:27):
people to have a very strong Eflat in certain register.
And you're like, oh, the onethat I put is not very strong.
So you readjust and I broughtalready like seven, like
different generations of thecast and many times and this is
why it's so important these daysto have social media or
something to keep your name.
You never know when you'regonna be that person I have now
(17:48):
I've been tracking the pastthree years 30 of my bookings is
the person I saw on youtube oron social media in the past two
weeks because, after bringingthis like a massive cast that I
already pre-made according towhatever recipe they were asking
me Once we were in thattimetable.
Things change Also now castingdirectors, the cast that you can
have today is not the cast thatyou can have tomorrow or not in
(18:09):
cast three months.
And part of also like where Iam now in my consultancy and
independence is that many houseshave now very different
timelines.
Many even houses say, okay,these three titles we can do it
three years in in advance.
This title is going to be twoyears in advance and this one
we're going to decide like threeweeks before the brochure is
done and that's going to be likeon the cheapest and what is on
(18:29):
sale, right.
So it is a particular skill.
You have to be everywhere.
You also have to be aware ofthe teams that you're going to
pitch.
I particularly, I'm a singerand I have my sound, so I'm very
zealous of the people.
That almost I feel.
Again, it's not that people aregoing to come after me, but the
way that I design a sound in acast.
It's almost like if I was goingto sing it, right.
So it's very personal whichcolors, which sounds, which
(18:52):
personalities I feel are goingto transmit what I want to say
in that piece.
And that's my little part thatI add to whatever the conductor,
the performer, the designer,the director does right.
And so sometimes when peopleare like, oh my God, why you're
not spreading the wealth?
And I'm like because I wouldn'tsing differently every time,
again, I have a sound that if Ifound guys that I consistently
find guys that fit that spectrumof sound, I will get in.
(19:13):
But today there's so myriad ofthings, a lot of them affected
by cash, that I have to adaptand respond as a casting
director.
Elizabeth Bowman (19:21):
I mean, there are so many factors that you
need to consider, like you werementioning the venue, how a
voice carries in that venue.
And then not only that, butonce you've even identified that
venue, the conductor and theirtempi change everything.
So like, if suddenly you have ashift in the conductor, then
it's going to change everything,because you're then like, oh
(19:44):
well, is it going to be YannickNezeguet's tempo, or is it?
You know what I mean?
Or is it going to be, oh, thisguy takes everything super fast,
Like it's Mozart.
It's just like everything isjust picked up a notch, which
then completely changes thecoloratura and everything.
So I can't, like, I reallycan't imagine, like the trials
(20:05):
and tribulations of a castingdirector.
And then to consider you keepmentioning this budget thing a
lot of companies are notplanning as far ahead, which is
really tragic because that isimpacting our industry.
It's more impactful than peopleunderstand.
We need to be planning at leastfive years in advance.
Everyone, even the smallercompanies, need to be planning
(20:29):
this far in advance.
Because when we talk about inPR, for instance because that's
my background, pr marketing,that kind of thing the important
thing is that we upholdartistic integrity in everything
that we're promoting.
We're not just like, oh,there's the campaign and who
cares about what the artisticdirector had to say about the
production.
We need to uphold that visionand then figure out a way to
(20:52):
have that audience access thatvision, and that's the job of a
good arts marketer.
I think this is the same thinglike if we're cutting casting
timelines, then it is having animpact on artistic integrity and
this is like a silent thingbecause it's not necessarily
promoted to the outside world.
(21:13):
So another reason for thispodcast is to really highlight
underscore the importance ofthose timelines.
Are you seeing, in terms ofprogramming, different changes
like other than these timelines?
But have the programs beenchanging?
David Lomelí (21:26):
I work with.
My more visible clients arefour.
That again, also my agreementsallow me to disclose that I work
for them.
So I have many clients that arehaving NDAs and different.
Again I'm a consequence to themarket.
You know, like a level three orlevel four opera house in
budget wise, according to theOpera America guidelines, right,
like below a million dollars,below five million dollars a
(21:47):
year, they definitely don't havethe money.
Or even if it's for them inmany ways, like the fun part of
the company, once they are facedon, like they see my database
or in state of the art, of howmuch travel, how much scouting,
how much I rely also in thingsthat are not normally used in
casting, they react to thatpoint, right.
But for me again, coming backto that, like the clients that I
(22:09):
can speak more openly, they areso affected by cash that today,
sadly, I wish that there was alot of artistic decision and
they still is.
You know there's still, ofcourse you're picking maybe one
title a season where you reallyare is where you want to say
something.
But then in every house that Iwork in America there's always
(22:29):
an anchor piece in whatever theythink the anchor is.
You know it's either like aTosca Carmen, an Aida Bohem, a
Nox, some kind of like a majortop 10 classic in many of the
houses today.
Because of cash flow also, thatsignifies that you're burning
possibly two or even threetitles, depending your how much
you offer of those or similar.
Today a risk is rusalka orpeleas in them in america.
(22:53):
And then you know, weirdlyenough we can fundraise really
great for big projects likestrauss, wagner and, until a few
years, big russian repertoire.
Because of that, like that youcan create excitement with your
funders.
But of course they are so big,those pieces, that just to keep
that piece on the season youhave to go above a couple of
millions on your fundraisinggoal that year and that you have
(23:15):
to pay it later, even though itwas the piece that created more
innuendo in the season.
Every time that I was in SantaFe or even Dallas and Atlanta
and we put the ring or a bigWagner project or a big Strauss
project, like people just flewinto it because it's an
experience, right, like it'srarely performed and it's so
theatrical and cinematic andalmost.
(23:37):
Also this music is very muchquoted in stealing in general
culture that it's easy, but it'snot yet as much as a response
to just artistic taste.
Whoever has a lot of artistictaste normally has very small
budget.
The guys that have the biggestbudget are responding,
especially in America, to thesedays, more and more to to almost
the what the desire of theboard wants to say in many ways.
(23:58):
What the desire of the boardwants to say in many ways,
because the board these days has80, sometimes even 85% of the
income comes from given income,right, so there's that, you know
, an understandable.
If you're giving money, youwant to see something that you
like, right.
So the skill now a lot is, howcan you keep that independency,
that artistic impresario mind,when the only money you can find
(24:21):
is the guy that would give youthe full budget for a pearl
fishers?
And I have seen it countless oftimes again.
Part of of my decision to kindof create a consultancy and keep
everybody because if I have theagreement that I'm consultancy,
that this is not my personalenchilada, right, like with
everybody, I better just put mytag of like I'm the shopper and
I'm a great shopper.
(24:41):
Like you, tell me what you wantand I will give it you at
different rates, differentformations.
You want more diversity, lessdiversity, like bigger, sound,
less sound, everything I can putit.
I have that.
But if you hire me to be yourcook, then don't put salt after
I serve it.
So for me, if mentally health,like I can, and also because of
the economy, these days, manytimes, many times a year, I, you
(25:02):
know, three years in advancethey asked me to do something
and then six years later, whenwe're finally seeing the, the
show on the season lookscompletely different.
We are in a scenario somethingright like so for me, my word,
also as an artist, is hard.
It's faster if I am like I'mgonna just help and like fix or
give the foundations and thenthey execute, but when it's mine
(25:22):
, it's particular.
So I have now settled in a waywith life and my employers to be
in this particular way where Ican do it.
Again, programming side is hard.
Everybody's responding to thecash that they can access.
If there's a donor that wantsto pay to buy a speaker and is
the real amount that we need,we're going to program him
because he's great, right, likehe's also good because
(25:43):
artistically something to say.
But sometimes people ask me it'slike but my piece is great and
it was like but no one isconnecting you at the level of
the executive producer.
So more and more these days wehave to find in combination with
our teams and that's why now wehave most of the CEOs are
fundraisers.
These days are not coming fromthe artistic departments, if you
really see.
They come because they canconnect the money and hopefully
(26:04):
they can find a team thatartistically still gives them
competition, marketing we stillhave to say something and
production we can execute.
So it's for me I would say likeI would like to respond in a
more artistical way, but I amthere in the room where it
happens.
The only guys that I see thatstill program things accordingly
to their own artistic vision isthe biggest artistic
(26:25):
institutions in Europe, you know, but in America I don't see it.
Elizabeth Bowman (26:28):
I actually see your response more positively
because you're adapting to thecurrent climate and I think that
that's that's really great andinnovative and more hopeful for
the industry, because you'reable to problem solve on the fly
, which is obviously what isrequired.
Obviously, in an ideal world,we're programming and doing
(26:51):
everything in a timeline andthen sticking to it in all
departments and collaboratingand all these things.
But obviously the way the worldis going right now for our
industry it's not like thatright now in terms of the money
and the innovation in theindustry which I hesitate to use
the word innovation becauseit's not innovating very quickly
.
But I think there are manybodies that are hoping and
(27:12):
pushing and trying new things,mostly with the smaller, more
malleable companies, and thatmakes sense in a sense because
they have much less bureaucracyto deal with, much less red tape
to deal with.
David Lomelí (27:26):
No, it is true, it is true.
You know one of my clients thatis the last one that I that I
joined is the Atlanta Opera.
In the past three years theyhave knocked it out of the park
in the way that they fundraise.
They have expanded the seasonand everybody's like, what are
you guys doing?
And I tell everybody they haveone key thing Besides the guy
that runs it is an extraordinaryfundraiser, tomer's Vulum.
He has been so zealous intocreating these particular
(27:49):
agreements with the orchestraand the constituents.
That allows him to, incombination with very creative
mind, business making.
The state of Georgia has one ofthe biggest film tax credits
and facilities for filming.
Right Combined that when he wascoming up and building the
orchestra because he grabbed itat a very crisis moment and a
very small budget to four to nowalmost 25 in six years he saw
(28:14):
that filming and audiovisualcontent was going to be where
you could really differentiateyour people.
So, for example, theMetropolitan Opera, yes,
launches the posters andeverything of what you're going
to see at the beginning of theseason and that's what you have
and clips from previous thingsor other productions.
But people today are not dumb.
You want to see what you'regoing to see.
You want to see what you'reactually going to experience and
(28:36):
you want to find security andassurance that that's what is
going to happen.
So they start previewing 45 to28 days the show, from even the
rehearsal room till openingnight, and they have so many
pieces of content, inclusive ofone of the dress rehearsals
where the camera is walking onstage Right, so the type of
(28:58):
trailers and visuals they got,and then they give so much for
free and subscription basis.
These guys have 10,000 peopleon the live stream every time
they go live.
Why?
Because they've been actuallyable to promote their product 28
days before opening night.
The Met does it like sometimesat the most 24 hours, is when
you see the snippet of JavierCamarena nail in the high D and
(29:19):
I'm like why did I?
Didn't see it for a month so Icould actually plan my travel
from Mexico.
So there's a lot of things thatI feel that if you don't have
different aspects of designingor attacking your ways and
adapting to these particularmatters, there's not going to be
, and sadly, the small ones arethe ones that can't do it
because they don't have thesevery difficult agreements.
One of my biggest frustrations,for example, working and I have
(29:42):
brought it up with them beinginside of the meetings and
everybody would you sayflexibility of changing because
of my positions.
I have been part of thesignatories of the.
There's like a media agreementthat 90 percent of classical
institutions of music,symphonies and opera have signed
, but it's like the most archaicagreement.
You know.
It's like if you film like 15minutes in yourself and I'm like
(30:02):
you have to pay this man nomoney too recently, wanting my
to give you an example, myconsultancy has different
clients and so I had a clientthat it was a label and a
conductor that wanted to do abig opera, and so I went to
several organizations to ask howmuch would it charge me to
record, let's say, salome.
The London PhilharmonicOrchestra can do it in eight
sessions for £150,000.
(30:23):
The Atlanta Opera Orchestra thecheapest, the cheapest AFM
agreement that I managed inthese several clients I have was
300,000.
And the quality, I love themeverybody, but it's not the
London Philharmonic Orchestra inthe skill power.
But one is for sale, the otherone is not, and the other one if
you want it for sale, it'salmost like double.
Elizabeth Bowman (30:42):
That reminds me of several times where I've
tried to go backstage withclients to film stuff for I
don't know Instagram or anysocial media, and I would have
to first of all put it inwriting.
Obviously I understand that,but you put it in writing and
you have to do it at least likea month and a half in advance.
It's ridiculous.
And then they have to post iton the wall for every artist to
(31:07):
see that you will be filmingthis little clips backstage that
have nothing to do with thoseartists 24 hours in advance.
Then you're not allowed to pluganything into the wall.
That's the other.
There's the other thing I wasn'tallowed to plug anything in, so
that's.
I mean, that's fine.
I mean I have my phone, I'm notgoing to plug anything in, but
the rules, like you say, they'reso archaic.
(31:28):
Anyway, it's a complete kind ofnightmare, like all of the
precepts in place around mediafootage.
And yes, I did achieve muchgreater things in England when a
client was going over theredoing a recording with a big
orchestra there and I had fullaccess to everything.
(31:49):
It was so easy and the productwas wonderful and we were able
to promote the album that theyhad just recorded, you know, and
no one else was taking thatfootage.
So had they not had thatfootage then, then they would
not necessarily have a campaign.
So, yeah, we need to figure outa way or have certain people on
(32:11):
some sort of approval list thatcan do immediate things.
David Lomelí (32:16):
I don't know, I don't know what the I think that
actually we need to let it go.
You know, I think that thatpart of the approval things, of
the control of things, is, likeTaylor Swift and the biggest
grammy people, that tom brady,everybody no one that is heavily
compensated by entertaining asport or art form that is
(32:37):
actually compensated in thisworld gets film and if they
screw up something, it's livebecause it's human and that's
exploiting who we are.
We're voyeuristic creatures.
We want to see what's happeningwith you, right?
So the fact that it breaks myheart that every time I go to a
concert of Coldplay or TaylorSwift or whoever it is, or I go
to a soccer game, you knoweverybody's filming and that
(32:58):
introduces the product in afamiliar way, like what my mom
sees or my friend sees throughmy Instagram influences, more
than anything, that arecommercial, paid by Coca-Cola.
So when you have those guys andyou have millions of people
introducing Taylor Swift totheir own friends and family,
right, we don't enjoy that andthen we complain again.
All the things that I feel.
(33:18):
You know what is the mainchallenges of a singer today?
And it's the fact that theperformer today has to be in a
monumental fight to become thetop five singer in your
repertoire in the world.
And that's how is the only waythat you can not really
self-promote or struggle thatmuch Like if you are to have
that technique, that singing,that level of singing, you're
(33:41):
going to be employable.
I don't tell you where.
Right, because today massivesuperstars like Nadine Sierra
have still a consistent habit ofsharing content of themselves
as a human being, as a performerspecial looks, special access,
a consistent diet of, of feedingyour audience content.
Right, that every majorperformer, entertainer of the
(34:02):
world, celebrity is doing right,like and so it.
It just worries me today thatthe performer today, besides not
having that mindset of ofexcellence, of that the
technology of today also hasmade us expect success very fast
and it can be with social mediaand with things you can.
You can really like, win acompetition and and be
discovered pretty fast.
(34:22):
If you're good, you can see.
You know when did emilyd'angelo erupted in in the
business?
Maybe 17, 18 in opera inportugal, and now I've seven
years is booked in the top 10opera houses every single month.
Right, like, there'spossibility if the level is
there.
But today there's so much noisebecause your competition, even
the struggling artists maybeconnect online better than you
(34:45):
and they may make you feel thatthere you're not successful as
much.
But then then the superinfluencer singer never gets a
booking, so that person feelsthat is not successful.
With diversity have been thrownaround too, and again with
economics reducing the sizes ofoutput that we have for the
workforce.
Now every single ethnicity orevery single race represented in
(35:08):
, especially in the Americanstages feels angry.
I see it in my hate mail, rightLike the white person is like
oh, you're super diverse, I onlygot one gig.
The black one is like you'resuch a racist one because I just
got one gig.
The Mexican is like, hey,you're only helping this person
because they only saw oneMexican getting that gig.
And the Asian Opera Alliance isgoing to create a whole like
post about you know you only shy100.
(35:30):
But I said I have four gigs togive and by being democratic I'm
not helping the career of anyfour right, because the four is
not.
You're not creating aconsistency of something.
So it's because of the economic.
That's why I wanted to get outMany of the things that you are
today.
Experience of frustration as asinger or a conductor or a
pianist or anything in thisbusiness is just at the root of
(35:51):
it Lack of opportunities becauseof the economy, representation
of who we are in the world.
If that is not addressed,everything else is almost
masturbatory content for me andI'm the casting director.
But again, because I work forso many and I see that I have to
fundraise for Munich and I haveto fundraise for Croatia and
Mexico and Argentina and thelabel, whoever it is in this
(36:11):
business, is fundraising thosewho have good cash flow.
The talent that is goodevaporates to the best bidder
right away.
You know so.
All of these are for money.
You know so if we're not veryaware and also we don't see
those things, things we can getinvolved by the toxicity of it
and then it gets even worse, youknow, because then we're
fighting for peanuts when reallythe enchiladas are bubbles.
(36:34):
In september, october, I went tolondon to the business of opera
forum, sponsored by lit loud, atrust fund, and they brought
the the guy that created themarketing campaign for the
olympics to land in london in2012 and it was was so funny
because I have advocated manythings like that, you know, but
I'm always shut down.
But he said you know, you needto act together.
(36:54):
Someone needs to kind of likesponsor the marketing of your
industry and bring brands andcelebrities to endorse you?
Right, and all of us were like,ok.
And then, at the same time,it's like, ok, who's willing to
organize the Olympic Committeeof Opera?
We're like, okay.
And then, the same time, it'slike, okay, who's willing to
organize the olympic committeeof opera?
The business like the who isthe commission of opera that is
gonna say listen, I have 400places of music making around
(37:14):
the world in 17 differentmarkets and our businesses worth
seven billion dollars.
X brand.
Like, if you get to announceyourself in every single venue
from our commission of opera,give us 30 million dollars that
then we can redistribute to Xamount of people every single
day.
Within, no one is promotingopera as a sport and I think
that we are seeing the era where, finally, classical music.
(37:37):
We can make the argument rightof many things, but the world is
into less resources in anything, so luxury things like us are
starting to get questioned inevery part of the world.
So if opera doesn't realizethat they have to find a way to
matter again to the commoncitizen, we're going to extend.
And within the casting process,right, like I feel many times
(37:57):
when I find in the casting it'slike, yes, but you're not
getting cast because of theeconomy is this way?
So now I need more of theinfluencer, and of course the
influencer brings their ownaudience, and of course the
influencer brings their ownaudience and, of course, if they
sing well, even better.
Right, so it's a combination ofmany stuff that today an artist
needs to be aware.
So A don't take it personally,it's really really, really hard.
Everybody's suffering from thesame.
(38:18):
The superstars are becauseabsolutely, and every single
aspect of the performing,evaluating art, are incredibly
good at it, and those are theguys that we have to hook on
ourselves many times.
Elizabeth Bowman (38:30):
I love the idea of having sort of an
overarching media company thatwould act as a chief of
partnership for the industry andall the opera houses, let's say
, in North America or evenglobally.
I mean, they could do thisglobally and have very specific
influencers that would targetthose audiences.
(38:52):
Like do the research, figureout the kinds of people in that
community and then figure outthe kinds of influencers that
would do the best job, and thatwon't necessarily mean those who
have the most followers or'sabout engagement and it's about
what that community is engagingin.
So if you do the research andyou find the right partnerships
(39:15):
and you have an agency that isin charge of actually doing this
research and figuring out allthese partnerships and that's
their specialty, that would belike a huge service for the
industry.
I love that idea.
David Lomelí (39:27):
Well, and also, if you really think about it, like
every major sports you know,like that has an industry
attached right Like golf, soccer, football, you know the
industry has already all themedia channels, attentions,
know-how, circle and cycle right.
Like that, when the meritocracyof a super talented rock like a
(39:47):
Messi or a jitter or somethinglike this, the system is so
ready for a talent like thatthat you don't have to
self-promote yourself.
The industry becomes your allyto promote yourself, make you a
bankable brand because you havedemonstrated that you have that
talent here.
How many guys?
Everybody that writes me in myhate mail is like oh, but I'm
good, of course you're good.
Everybody that writes me in myhate mail is like oh, but I'm
(40:08):
good, of course you're good.
Everybody that is singingalready in a level one worldwide
is good.
It's what that is extra,because again, there's like six
jobs to give that.
How you become that one ofthose six?
But we would be better if wehave better infrastructure, if
we have media agreements, if wehave everything that allows us
democratization to the access ofattention to our audience.
(40:28):
But we're so pompous about whohas access to these things and
we don't want people to see usflawed or missing a note or
something, but somehow we seelike major athletes of the world
that work as hard as us,getting injured in real life and
sometimes like life-threateningthings, because that's why you
get paid that much.
If you don't have so manypeople watching you and spending
(40:51):
their lives and breaths for you, why would you get paid?
That's what I don't understandwith my fellow performers and
even my fellow industriesProfessionalists is like why are
we so aggrieved to investingaltogether in buying ourselves?
We have the cash.
If we as an industry get a potof $10 million a year reinvested
into, like digital marketingfor the industry of opera, I
(41:12):
promise you there's scienceabout it we will change the
perception and the lobbying Like.
The other day I read that OpenAIhas like 400 employees and 40%
of them are lobbying.
The way that worldwide opinionmakers seen AI.
How many people work in operaaround the world?
Way more than 400.
How many percentage are loving?
Let's just say in America.
(41:33):
You know, like when I was partof the Strategic Committee on
Diversity in Opera, america weshare a representative.
We share we dance USA.
We share one representativekind of loving into the American
Senate and Congress.
I'm like we have one, but westill have that many people in
development in Chicago or Dallaswe couldn't have like 50
(41:54):
lobbings Like.
Why don't you companiessponsoring one of them Right
Like because we think so microand never just without exactly
have to jump like we will neverin a sports arena think that the
marketing of the Yankees isbigger than the marketing of the
MLB.
That actually puts everybody.
We know the Yankees are great,we know Real Madrid is great,
but the FIFA marketing, the FIFAadvocating for that aspect of
(42:18):
humanity is what we lack, rightLike, we prefer the micro and we
don't help actually the healthyeconomy of the sport.
Elizabeth Bowman (42:25):
I know you have to go, so I will wrap this
up, but I do want to say thatwhen you talk about people in
the industry so afraid to showmistakes, show an imperfection,
this is obviously, like a hugepart of the classical music as a
whole industry, something thatwe need to get over.
And my mantra as a publicist ishonesty resonates, and I
(42:50):
couldn't agree more right nowwith the idea that honesty does
resonate, and that's ultimatelywhat we all want to see.
We do want to see, we want tohear your stories, we want to
see the struggles involved inthat career, we want to see you
stand up again and then prevailagain and again, and then
(43:13):
struggle again and then prevail.
And I'm a runner, not like agreat runner, but I like running
, and the reason why I likerunning is this idea of the
struggle, the goal, this idea ofthe struggle, the goal.
You set a goal you try toachieve that goal.
And you know, I have a marathongoal that is like pretty lofty
(43:39):
and I'm, you know, and I keep itlofty.
And I told my son the other dayit was like well, I've gone,
I've done two marathons and Ihave not succeeded yet.
I mean, I, I achieved, Icrossed the finish line.
So I guess, you know, you know,you know a lot of people would
say that that's, that's anachievement in itself and and I
would too but ultimately, like,my lofty goal is still there.
And I tell my son what my goalis and I'm like it's just about
(43:59):
getting up again and tryingagain and that, you know, I know
that resonates with my childrenand I know that that idea of
lofty goals and trying toachieve them resonates with
people around the world ingeneral.
So, yeah, I'd love to see thatmore in our industry and I'm so
glad to talk to you and I feellike we we could do like 10
podcast episodes together.
David Lomelí (44:21):
Absolutely no.
Thank you so much for the combo.
I really enjoy your mind.
And what are you asking?
Because I think, even if it'sjust to put out the idea out
there, you know, like I again,those are the projects that now
again, I'm still casting and I'mdoing my scouting and
everything but one more I'mbuilding and with some
confidentiality, like theprojects that I hope that I can
(44:43):
help in a way or address this.
You know, I wish exactly whatyou say that we have a netflix
show that shows the struggle ofevery person right of that,
really the connection of that,and that we cannot control
always how we've been seen,because the more honest we are,
the more human we look andbetter we connect this, this
robotic aspect, even likesometimes when we do
(45:04):
transmission, then we're like soproper, and what is the
characters like thinking?
I'm like no, are you scaredtoday?
Like like, how does it feellike you just won the
championship?
We don't want to act like well,susanna said in the act.
Elizabeth Bowman (45:16):
No, you know like, tell me my human aspect.
Thanks for being here today and, uh, I'll look forward to
chatting with you again me toocan't wait.
Hi, I'm Elizabeth Bowman and welcome to
the Scene Room.
Today I'm talking to DavidLomeli.
David's journey in thisindustry is nothing short of
remarkable, starting as a singer, then transitioning behind the
scenes to become one of the mostinfluential artistic leaders in
opera today.
From his groundbreaking work atthe Dallas Opera and Bavarian
(00:20):
State Opera to his leadership atSanta Fe Opera as chief
artistic officer, david hasconsistently championed artistic
excellence and true diversityin our field.
Now, through Lomeli Consulting,he's expanding his impact even
further.
We had a really greatconversation today about the
industry, what could be improved, what is the state of things,
(00:44):
and I think we could have mademany more podcast episodes.
If you're enjoying the podcast,please like, share, review, do
all those free things.
I really appreciate it.
It helps keep these wonderfulconversations going and I'm
really grateful for the responseso far to season one.
Now let's get to it.
(01:04):
David, welcome to the sceneroom.
Thanks so much for coming.
David Lomelí (01:07):
Thanks for having me.
I've been a fan since thelaunch.
I've just been getting more andmore, and all your insiders
combo and I said thank you forcreating this.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:15):
I'm really excited to talk to you because
you have such an interestingbackground, like first as a
performer and then in castingand then also as an arts
administrator, so you reallycover a lot of ground here, like
everything that we cover herein the scene room.
So it's really wonderful totalk to you.
Can we start at the beginning,as I like to with all my guests?
(01:37):
I'd love to know your journey.
How did you even get into operain the first place, and then
also, how did you transitioninto these different facets of
the industry?
David Lomelí (01:48):
I am originally.
I was born in Mexico Citymiddle class family.
My mom and my grandmother weresingers, were very good, natural
singers, that they have certainkind of instruction and they
pass their follow.
You know their how to breathe,how to place a couple things.
And since I was a baby, andagain, the mexican spanish if
you hear me speak spanish in mymexico city accent is super high
(02:12):
and it just plays the voiceright there.
I just said like most of thetenors from mexico are from
mexico city or below.
Most of them latul chacon islike the exception, but but
everybody else is from belowbecause we put the, the voice
there.
You know so very early since Iwas a kiddo, I I knew I could
carry a tune and it was like my,my superpower.
If I would sing in class theywould let me sometimes like
(02:33):
deliver the homework late orsomething.
I was.
I was very gifted in many inmany sense.
My mom, very smart, like, gotus into a school.
That is like there was a veryfancy school for English at
international school and it wasfor like wealthy people.
So she somehow got like a jobthere.
So we got a scholarship andthat is going to start to shape
who I am now, because I went toschool from the beginning with
(02:55):
my donors or the parents of mydonors in many ways.
So I saw them grow up and I sawunderstanding and I didn't know
why, but I was always payingattention.
In that sense and because ofthat I learned English decent
enough, you know, very early.
And because, also, it had theresources I had access to
develop extra skills like mysinging.
Eventually, later I'm agraduate of an engineer degree
(03:17):
in computer science and I have amaster's degree in marketing,
because my parents were alwayslike, have a plan b.
But while I did of that, Ialways performed and I was a
professional artist since I wasa kid.
I did voiceovers for Disney.
When I was a kid I sang withseveral pop bands.
I had my own pop band, so I wasalways learning how to do both.
You know I was a little bitentrepreneurial about working,
(03:37):
having my own money, buying myown car.
You know, don't depend on myparents to do things and still
sing right, like when I was incollege.
They, again the life waspreparing me for my path.
There's a change.
Whatever was the glee club?
And again, my university is avery particular one for tec of
monterrey in mexico that has somuch resources that we had a
2000 seat auditorium and a realorchestra and these guys would
(04:01):
buy like real licenses from realplays from broadway to come to
to Mexico in our theater for arun of eight performances that
we would do and we will do itright.
So with that in training theystarted to create their own
opera orchestra or likesymphonic orchestra and their
own opera company and theyoffered me a full ride for my
engineering degree.
I basically was paid to be anengineer by singing.
I had, they had a lot ofperformances and plays and that
(04:23):
trained me a lot and they wouldgive me a little bit of training
.
Eventually they sent me abroadwhen I did the masters and I had
to also train.
So I met Jose Carreras andMontserrat Caballé in Barcelona
that's where I went to do thedegree and so I eventually
started to see that opera waswhere I was a little bit very
much gifted.
In 2003, the university sent meto a place to sing where a lot
(04:44):
of the coaches of the met werethere in in italy, and they gave
me the role of renu GianniSchicchi and and suddenly I
could see that the graduates ofjuilliard and curtis or msm or
other people were coming in andI was from nowhere, nothing, and
I was the, the lead tenor, andpeople were noticing and
treating me differently, rightlike, and I was like, and where
(05:04):
people were struggling, I wouldfly.
So I started to realize that Iwas significantly gifted.
So by the time that I finishedall the degrees in 2004, I was
jobless and so we had a pop bandwith my friends.
We won a competition of singingand we started recording our
thing.
We did a little bit ofperforming and in a break that
(05:25):
we had from the band I met CesarUlloa that now is a very famous
teacher of voice in SanFrancisco Conservatory, in San
Francisco Opera Penne Patis isone of his guys and he really
grabbed me to the wing.
I met him in Mexico City and inthe Young Artists Program in
Mexico that had helped RollandoVillazon and others, and he said
you know you're really good andI think you should meet Placido
(05:46):
Domingo.
And in 2006, he managed to likecrash an audition for other
people and at one in the morningof 2006, february 6th, I met
Placido and he invited me tojoin LA Opera.
He was founding the very firstDomingo Thornton troupe in 26
and gave me a wildcardinvitation for operalia, like I
didn't have to apply it, he justinvited me.
(06:08):
2006 I moved legally to thestates.
You know there was a big dealfor a mexican to get a visa and
a salary that good.
That was very significant.
My apprentice salary in 2006 itwas equivalent of what my dad
did at his end of the career,monthly, you know, as a banker.
So everybody was like wow, he'smaking it.
I went operalia, like end ofthe career, monthly, you know,
as a banker.
So everybody was like wow, he'smaking it.
I went up earlier like out ofthe bat, like really, with no
(06:28):
real training.
So the day after I landed in LAI met Matthew Epstein that was
manager of many guys famous atthat time and he said, listen, I
want you to stay here for twoyears, even though they're going
to be offers to come, I wantyou to be here and train.
And so I stayed two years there.
It was a very particular erabecause the agreements that
young artists programs havetoday in the United States,
(06:49):
where if you're international,you still play, so you can, you
know, sing Gastone even if youare an Alfredo, right.
But in my case in those years Isang like one role a year
because those were theperformances that Placido would
pay other artists to not sing soI could go on as a lead, you
know so.
But in the meantime, la reallyparaded me like they sent me
everywhere, like from Hollywoodparties to premieres, to you
(07:11):
name it.
Like for two years I sang a lotand they also released me a lot
.
So I went on tour.
I met Duda Mel at 25, likeagain.
I had a really grand life from25 to 32.
I went to train in SanFrancisco where I was an Adler
and a Merla program.
Immediately, pretty much.
I was signed by ColumbiaArtists and Matthew Epstein and
my career was going.
I always paid attention aboutthe business.
(07:33):
You know, during my singingyears, always and sadly, you
know, I always battled withreflux.
But by 2011, I was justincredibly sick.
I was getting really a lot ofpain.
I had to take so much medicineto get through a performance.
I had to be that tenor, thatmark, most of the time Very,
very reclusive in how my sociallife would go If not because
(07:55):
everything would affect mystomach, even though 2010, 2011
were, like my career, years ofengagements.
I debuted in New York and Paris.
Ma plays at a fair with greatsuccess, but I was in pain.
I debuted in New York and ParisI Benny plays at a fair .
I had to kind of put myselftogether every time before going
on and by 2012, I got fired forthe first time in Houston Grand
Opera.
I was literally Violetta no, Iwas.
(08:16):
I was coughing blood on stageand and Diane Zola had to come
in.
We like that, we can, we cannotput you on like you're sick and
that was very devastating.
I was about to get married atthat time, like it was two
months before my marriage.
So A I counted with that moneyto kind of keep my marriage
going.
So that was hard and reallyafter that, like I kind of
(08:36):
switched in desperation,switched teachers and many
things you know, like many otherperformers would do.
And to make the story short, youknow, because it was a long one
of ins and outs, doctors, etcetera.
Eventually I had a very bigproblem that my esophagus was in
the 1% of, like worst esophagusof the world, like they never
close, and so even standing up Iwould get reflux and get burned
.
I was a little bit of cyst,like if I wouldn't have taken
(08:59):
care I would had like majortumors, and so I had to have a
lynx procedure, that thatcreates a like a bionic
esophagus.
But the time that I had thesurgery I had so much burn
around not in my vocal cords,but the vocal cords certainly
had part in a tiny bit.
But now my larynx was so burnedand the nerve connection to the
throat was not happeningproperly, and so eventually what
(09:21):
happened is around my passaggioI couldn't really tune my voice
properly.
That while I sang I hadfamously very good pitch, you
know.
So I was like I think an F andit's coming an E, like why is
that?
So eventually drives you crazy.
And this business, like you know, is so tense and so about like
how good you were yesterday, itdoesn't matter your 10, 20 years
.
And so very fast, you know, ifI couldn't sing in tune, like I
(09:43):
was getting replaced, or in afew couple of engagements they
let me sing, but it was not thesame success by 2014, I still
had like three years ofengagement, so that was just
canceling because I was like Idon't want to expose myself.
So I left a lot of money andmassive debuts in that I that I
had to do it.
But in 2014, I decided to again, after a few in and outs of
(10:04):
different hospitals, to stop andI asked for a job Too many
places.
Nobody gave me a job andeventually Sherry Greenwell from
the Merola program called KeithCerny Turning Dallas Opera, and
that was the CEO at that timeand that's how I ended up in
administration.
I was the assistant of castingof the head of our director of
artistic administration and atthat time in 2014, a lot of the
(10:26):
way that I thought life could be, or administration.
When I arrived, everything waspaper into Dallas.
And I'm a techie, I'm anengineer too, right Like.
So I immediately like createdatabases, move us to DocuSign.
I mean it appeared like I wasmaking a revolution, but for me
it was like this is just Office101, right Like.
And again, I had so muchknowledge and awareness of the
artist's mind that I would seethe artist even in the AGMA
(10:50):
agreements.
You know, I'm like.
Oh, this is because, really,you didn't like your tenor.
You know your friend tenor andthis is why you're creating this
clause to prevent him to joinor like kind of like, why this
was created.
So we can, historically, if wego into an agreement, I could
(11:10):
change it, and my best luck, Ithink, in order to really cement
my way into administration, wasthat at that moment in 2014,
the company was starting aprogram that became now a very
signature program the WomenConductors, the heart program of
Dallas.
They gave me the opportunity tobe the leader of the program,
even if I didn't know a lotabout women conducting, but I
knew how to run things or be aleader and program manager a
couple of things.
And I need launch.
Not only the program or thecompany launched my career too.
(11:31):
I was suddenly more visible, Ihad something exciting.
People would invite me as beingthe first manager of that to to
many other things, and and itexploded.
And and you know, I don't knowI will pass here because I can
tell you until I'm in Santa Fe,but I think it's a good start.
Elizabeth Bowman (11:45):
What a journey .
I like it because you werefaced with such struggles and
then that makes you even moreaware of the levels of the
business, because you obviouslywere marinating in the struggle
and then you were able to breakthrough without necessarily
being aware at the time, I'msure, but that's just how the
(12:08):
greatest things get built.
You see people go through deepstruggle and then champion
something and they don't evensee that until after the fact
where they're.
Like, I had to go through thatin order to achieve this great
thing.
So that's a great story and I'msure we could do a whole
podcast on just this, just thatstory.
(12:28):
I want to ask you about casting, because Absolutely yeah, yeah.
Yeah, this is like somethingthat is somewhat of a mystery, I
think, to some people.
What does the casting directordo?
Of course they cast the roles,but what is the process and what
is the essence of this role?
David Lomelí (12:46):
I think that today is different than what it was
10, 15 years.
You know I see it on theshoulders of legends in my
industry, in my side of theindustry, lik O a Moe Moe,
jonathan Friend, peter Katonathat I learned tremendously from
them of casting patterns ofsound, of what to do, solutions
depending on the conductor,depending if you're going to fix
(13:07):
the soprano, how you castaround.
You know a lot of those things.
I think there's a lot of beingthe nerd of the squad.
You know.
You know every role, you knoweven different versions.
You recall the conductor in1943 that did it in Branch Vi
versus the version that they didin Napoli, and you become that
kind of source that guides alittle bit the process of the
(13:28):
sound or even the artisticoffering.
Because from casting, you know,casting with trovatore A
trovatori means something, butif you cast it with cast B it
means something else.
Or you're going for differenttypes of the piece, right.
But I think today the castingdirector or casting manager,
depending on the position, it'san art form that is hard to keep
because we are affectedtremendously by everything, by
(13:50):
the consequence of economy, ofthe world of technology, of the
way that people's health can.
You're scouting, you're findingpeople and things like that.
But also, I don't know, nowthat I do it for several
organizations I have become likean specialist shopper, like I
(14:12):
do have my sound and I thinkthat that's why people, my
clients, hire me for.
You know, I have a particularway that if you see a cast that
I was involved, there's acertain amount of sound or a
certain amount of excitement inthe casting design.
That that's why people pay meand the service well, we are
doing that service that they arehappy.
You know I have to think aboutthese ways.
So the way that I work thesedays is that I'm part of a team
(14:35):
in everywhere that I work thatnormally includes, for sure, the
general director or theintendant.
In many ways I have acounterpart that is the head of
casting locally or the directorof artistic administration or
some sort of artistic operatorthat really runs the day-to-day
and of course, has to saybecause it's every day with your
audience, every day with yourbackstage knows which voices
kind of sound better in theirtheater.
(14:56):
But maybe they don't have theresources to travel as much as
me, they don't know artists asmuch as me.
I have been an artist myselfand I was to an elite level so I
can learn and I know how toaddress every journey of the guy
you know the, the aging guy,the, the in trouble guy, their
prime time, the strugglingartist coming up, the rising
artist, the chorister, likethose type of guys.
I went from that version rightand and through different
(15:19):
markets too try signing manydifferent markets in different
singing language, differentidiosyncrasies, so I can adapt
pretty fast and in a way I'malso a consequence of the
economy these days thatnon-company can really just have
a guy that just cast andtravels the world and pays them
like $40,000, $50,000 a year toscout worldwide, plus their
salary and health insurance,like just to do that.
(15:40):
Like I wish, because I stillthink that we are the product in
many ways or we determine oraffect the product so much that
that is not, but it's not thecase.
So normally you know likecasting directors in Europe make
40 grand a year.
Of massive opera companies, thebiggest one, the biggest ones
that you can imagine in Europe,are around 100 grand.
That is great if you considermany things.
(16:00):
You can imagine in Europe arearound a hundred grand.
That is great if you considermany things.
But consider what other coachesor director of player personnel
of other industries or sports,and these are the guardians of
the traditions, of how wesuppose the people or a voice
execute, and trendsetters right.
And now we're just part of ateam, you know, like we have
also music directors inside, andmany times other teams decide
to bring the director ofproduction or the funding guy
(16:22):
like director of development,and so I normally am the one
that, like I was told by themanager, you know, I want to do
traviata or master singers andso and he says, like you know,
I'm thinking about doing it alittle bit light chamber sound,
because I'm going to play it inmy, I don't know, in my
alternative space and we're notgoing to have more than 600
(16:42):
people, so don't give me the bigtrivia type of almost like a
chamber sound, because also Icannot put on many people in the
pit, for example.
And so I bring a cast and I feelthat I sometimes I feel like
those reels that are, you know,making fun of different people,
but just play by myself.
And I'm like the generaldirector is like you know, I
(17:07):
have a donor that can pay forlisette oropesa, and you're like
, oh, my god, I have seven showsand of course, lisette oropesa
is in my list, but how can wefit them?
If it's oropesa, then three ofmy tenors don't fit and she,
even if we have that desire, shemight not fit, like she might
not be free right to this period.
And then, you know, I proposedcertain things and the director
of casting said, you know, Iwouldn't want this artist
because he was mean to my stagemanager.
So you readjust and then themusic director says like, oh,
but I want it in like Baroquepitch, so I really want these
(17:27):
people to have a very strong Eflat in certain register.
And you're like, oh, the onethat I put is not very strong.
So you readjust and I broughtalready like seven, like
different generations of thecast and many times and this is
why it's so important these daysto have social media or
something to keep your name.
You never know when you'regonna be that person I have now
(17:48):
I've been tracking the pastthree years 30 of my bookings is
the person I saw on youtube oron social media in the past two
weeks because, after bringingthis like a massive cast that I
already pre-made according towhatever recipe they were asking
me Once we were in thattimetable.
Things change Also now castingdirectors, the cast that you can
have today is not the cast thatyou can have tomorrow or not in
(18:09):
cast three months.
And part of also like where Iam now in my consultancy and
independence is that many houseshave now very different
timelines.
Many even houses say, okay,these three titles we can do it
three years in in advance.
This title is going to be twoyears in advance and this one
we're going to decide like threeweeks before the brochure is
done and that's going to be likeon the cheapest and what is on
(18:29):
sale, right.
So it is a particular skill.
You have to be everywhere.
You also have to be aware ofthe teams that you're going to
pitch.
I particularly, I'm a singerand I have my sound, so I'm very
zealous of the people.
That almost I feel.
Again, it's not that people aregoing to come after me, but the
way that I design a sound in acast.
It's almost like if I was goingto sing it, right.
So it's very personal whichcolors, which sounds, which
(18:52):
personalities I feel are goingto transmit what I want to say
in that piece.
And that's my little part thatI add to whatever the conductor,
the performer, the designer,the director does right.
And so sometimes when peopleare like, oh my God, why you're
not spreading the wealth?
And I'm like because I wouldn'tsing differently every time,
again, I have a sound that if Ifound guys that I consistently
find guys that fit that spectrumof sound, I will get in.
(19:13):
But today there's so myriad ofthings, a lot of them affected
by cash, that I have to adaptand respond as a casting
director.
Elizabeth Bowman (19:21):
I mean, there are so many factors that you
need to consider, like you werementioning the venue, how a
voice carries in that venue.
And then not only that, butonce you've even identified that
venue, the conductor and theirtempi change everything.
So like, if suddenly you have ashift in the conductor, then
it's going to change everything,because you're then like, oh
(19:44):
well, is it going to be YannickNezeguet's tempo, or is it?
You know what I mean?
Or is it going to be, oh, thisguy takes everything super fast,
Like it's Mozart.
It's just like everything isjust picked up a notch, which
then completely changes thecoloratura and everything.
So I can't, like, I reallycan't imagine, like the trials
(20:05):
and tribulations of a castingdirector.
And then to consider you keepmentioning this budget thing a
lot of companies are notplanning as far ahead, which is
really tragic because that isimpacting our industry.
It's more impactful than peopleunderstand.
We need to be planning at leastfive years in advance.
Everyone, even the smallercompanies, need to be planning
(20:29):
this far in advance.
Because when we talk about inPR, for instance because that's
my background, pr marketing,that kind of thing the important
thing is that we upholdartistic integrity in everything
that we're promoting.
We're not just like, oh,there's the campaign and who
cares about what the artisticdirector had to say about the
production.
We need to uphold that visionand then figure out a way to
(20:52):
have that audience access thatvision, and that's the job of a
good arts marketer.
I think this is the same thinglike if we're cutting casting
timelines, then it is having animpact on artistic integrity and
this is like a silent thingbecause it's not necessarily
promoted to the outside world.
(21:13):
So another reason for thispodcast is to really highlight
underscore the importance ofthose timelines.
Are you seeing, in terms ofprogramming, different changes
like other than these timelines?
But have the programs beenchanging?
David Lomelí (21:26):
I work with.
My more visible clients arefour.
That again, also my agreementsallow me to disclose that I work
for them.
So I have many clients that arehaving NDAs and different.
Again I'm a consequence to themarket.
You know, like a level three orlevel four opera house in
budget wise, according to theOpera America guidelines, right,
like below a million dollars,below five million dollars a
(21:47):
year, they definitely don't havethe money.
Or even if it's for them inmany ways, like the fun part of
the company, once they are facedon, like they see my database
or in state of the art, of howmuch travel, how much scouting,
how much I rely also in thingsthat are not normally used in
casting, they react to thatpoint, right.
But for me again, coming backto that, like the clients that I
(22:09):
can speak more openly, they areso affected by cash that today,
sadly, I wish that there was alot of artistic decision and
they still is.
You know there's still, ofcourse you're picking maybe one
title a season where you reallyare is where you want to say
something.
But then in every house that Iwork in America there's always
(22:29):
an anchor piece in whatever theythink the anchor is.
You know it's either like aTosca Carmen, an Aida Bohem, a
Nox, some kind of like a majortop 10 classic in many of the
houses today.
Because of cash flow also, thatsignifies that you're burning
possibly two or even threetitles, depending your how much
you offer of those or similar.
Today a risk is rusalka orpeleas in them in america.
(22:53):
And then you know, weirdlyenough we can fundraise really
great for big projects likestrauss, wagner and, until a few
years, big russian repertoire.
Because of that, like that youcan create excitement with your
funders.
But of course they are so big,those pieces, that just to keep
that piece on the season youhave to go above a couple of
millions on your fundraisinggoal that year and that you have
(23:15):
to pay it later, even though itwas the piece that created more
innuendo in the season.
Every time that I was in SantaFe or even Dallas and Atlanta
and we put the ring or a bigWagner project or a big Strauss
project, like people just flewinto it because it's an
experience, right, like it'srarely performed and it's so
theatrical and cinematic andalmost.
(23:37):
Also this music is very muchquoted in stealing in general
culture that it's easy, but it'snot yet as much as a response
to just artistic taste.
Whoever has a lot of artistictaste normally has very small
budget.
The guys that have the biggestbudget are responding,
especially in America, to thesedays, more and more to to almost
the what the desire of theboard wants to say in many ways.
(23:58):
What the desire of the boardwants to say in many ways,
because the board these days has80, sometimes even 85% of the
income comes from given income,right, so there's that, you know
, an understandable.
If you're giving money, youwant to see something that you
like, right.
So the skill now a lot is, howcan you keep that independency,
that artistic impresario mind,when the only money you can find
(24:21):
is the guy that would give youthe full budget for a pearl
fishers?
And I have seen it countless oftimes again.
Part of of my decision to kindof create a consultancy and keep
everybody because if I have theagreement that I'm consultancy,
that this is not my personalenchilada, right, like with
everybody, I better just put mytag of like I'm the shopper and
I'm a great shopper.
(24:41):
Like you, tell me what you wantand I will give it you at
different rates, differentformations.
You want more diversity, lessdiversity, like bigger, sound,
less sound, everything I can putit.
I have that.
But if you hire me to be yourcook, then don't put salt after
I serve it.
So for me, if mentally health,like I can, and also because of
the economy, these days, manytimes, many times a year, I, you
(25:02):
know, three years in advancethey asked me to do something
and then six years later, whenwe're finally seeing the, the
show on the season lookscompletely different.
We are in a scenario somethingright like so for me, my word,
also as an artist, is hard.
It's faster if I am like I'mgonna just help and like fix or
give the foundations and thenthey execute, but when it's mine
(25:22):
, it's particular.
So I have now settled in a waywith life and my employers to be
in this particular way where Ican do it.
Again, programming side is hard.
Everybody's responding to thecash that they can access.
If there's a donor that wantsto pay to buy a speaker and is
the real amount that we need,we're going to program him
because he's great, right, likehe's also good because
(25:43):
artistically something to say.
But sometimes people ask me it'slike but my piece is great and
it was like but no one isconnecting you at the level of
the executive producer.
So more and more these days wehave to find in combination with
our teams and that's why now wehave most of the CEOs are
fundraisers.
These days are not coming fromthe artistic departments, if you
really see.
They come because they canconnect the money and hopefully
(26:04):
they can find a team thatartistically still gives them
competition, marketing we stillhave to say something and
production we can execute.
So it's for me I would say likeI would like to respond in a
more artistical way, but I amthere in the room where it
happens.
The only guys that I see thatstill program things accordingly
to their own artistic vision isthe biggest artistic
(26:25):
institutions in Europe, you know, but in America I don't see it.
Elizabeth Bowman (26:28):
I actually see your response more positively
because you're adapting to thecurrent climate and I think that
that's that's really great andinnovative and more hopeful for
the industry, because you'reable to problem solve on the fly
, which is obviously what isrequired.
Obviously, in an ideal world,we're programming and doing
(26:51):
everything in a timeline andthen sticking to it in all
departments and collaboratingand all these things.
But obviously the way the worldis going right now for our
industry it's not like thatright now in terms of the money
and the innovation in theindustry which I hesitate to use
the word innovation becauseit's not innovating very quickly
.
But I think there are manybodies that are hoping and
(27:12):
pushing and trying new things,mostly with the smaller, more
malleable companies, and thatmakes sense in a sense because
they have much less bureaucracyto deal with, much less red tape
to deal with.
David Lomelí (27:26):
No, it is true, it is true.
You know one of my clients thatis the last one that I that I
joined is the Atlanta Opera.
In the past three years theyhave knocked it out of the park
in the way that they fundraise.
They have expanded the seasonand everybody's like, what are
you guys doing?
And I tell everybody they haveone key thing Besides the guy
that runs it is an extraordinaryfundraiser, tomer's Vulum.
He has been so zealous intocreating these particular
(27:49):
agreements with the orchestraand the constituents.
That allows him to, incombination with very creative
mind, business making.
The state of Georgia has one ofthe biggest film tax credits
and facilities for filming.
Right Combined that when he wascoming up and building the
orchestra because he grabbed itat a very crisis moment and a
very small budget to four to nowalmost 25 in six years he saw
(28:14):
that filming and audiovisualcontent was going to be where
you could really differentiateyour people.
So, for example, theMetropolitan Opera, yes,
launches the posters andeverything of what you're going
to see at the beginning of theseason and that's what you have
and clips from previous thingsor other productions.
But people today are not dumb.
You want to see what you'regoing to see.
You want to see what you'reactually going to experience and
(28:36):
you want to find security andassurance that that's what is
going to happen.
So they start previewing 45 to28 days the show, from even the
rehearsal room till openingnight, and they have so many
pieces of content, inclusive ofone of the dress rehearsals
where the camera is walking onstage Right, so the type of
(28:58):
trailers and visuals they got,and then they give so much for
free and subscription basis.
These guys have 10,000 peopleon the live stream every time
they go live.
Why?
Because they've been actuallyable to promote their product 28
days before opening night.
The Met does it like sometimesat the most 24 hours, is when
you see the snippet of JavierCamarena nail in the high D and
(29:19):
I'm like why did I?
Didn't see it for a month so Icould actually plan my travel
from Mexico.
So there's a lot of things thatI feel that if you don't have
different aspects of designingor attacking your ways and
adapting to these particularmatters, there's not going to be
, and sadly, the small ones arethe ones that can't do it
because they don't have thesevery difficult agreements.
One of my biggest frustrations,for example, working and I have
(29:42):
brought it up with them beinginside of the meetings and
everybody would you sayflexibility of changing because
of my positions.
I have been part of thesignatories of the.
There's like a media agreementthat 90 percent of classical
institutions of music,symphonies and opera have signed
, but it's like the most archaicagreement.
You know.
It's like if you film like 15minutes in yourself and I'm like
(30:02):
you have to pay this man nomoney too recently, wanting my
to give you an example, myconsultancy has different
clients and so I had a clientthat it was a label and a
conductor that wanted to do abig opera, and so I went to
several organizations to ask howmuch would it charge me to
record, let's say, salome.
The London PhilharmonicOrchestra can do it in eight
sessions for £150,000.
(30:23):
The Atlanta Opera Orchestra thecheapest, the cheapest AFM
agreement that I managed inthese several clients I have was
300,000.
And the quality, I love themeverybody, but it's not the
London Philharmonic Orchestra inthe skill power.
But one is for sale, the otherone is not, and the other one if
you want it for sale, it'salmost like double.
Elizabeth Bowman (30:42):
That reminds me of several times where I've
tried to go backstage withclients to film stuff for I
don't know Instagram or anysocial media, and I would have
to first of all put it inwriting.
Obviously I understand that,but you put it in writing and
you have to do it at least likea month and a half in advance.
It's ridiculous.
And then they have to post iton the wall for every artist to
(31:07):
see that you will be filmingthis little clips backstage that
have nothing to do with thoseartists 24 hours in advance.
Then you're not allowed to pluganything into the wall.
That's the other.
There's the other thing I wasn'tallowed to plug anything in, so
that's.
I mean, that's fine.
I mean I have my phone, I'm notgoing to plug anything in, but
the rules, like you say, they'reso archaic.
(31:28):
Anyway, it's a complete kind ofnightmare, like all of the
precepts in place around mediafootage.
And yes, I did achieve muchgreater things in England when a
client was going over theredoing a recording with a big
orchestra there and I had fullaccess to everything.
(31:49):
It was so easy and the productwas wonderful and we were able
to promote the album that theyhad just recorded, you know, and
no one else was taking thatfootage.
So had they not had thatfootage then, then they would
not necessarily have a campaign.
So, yeah, we need to figure outa way or have certain people on
(32:11):
some sort of approval list thatcan do immediate things.
David Lomelí (32:16):
I don't know, I don't know what the I think that
actually we need to let it go.
You know, I think that thatpart of the approval things, of
the control of things, is, likeTaylor Swift and the biggest
grammy people, that tom brady,everybody no one that is heavily
compensated by entertaining asport or art form that is
(32:37):
actually compensated in thisworld gets film and if they
screw up something, it's livebecause it's human and that's
exploiting who we are.
We're voyeuristic creatures.
We want to see what's happeningwith you, right?
So the fact that it breaks myheart that every time I go to a
concert of Coldplay or TaylorSwift or whoever it is, or I go
to a soccer game, you knoweverybody's filming and that
(32:58):
introduces the product in afamiliar way, like what my mom
sees or my friend sees throughmy Instagram influences, more
than anything, that arecommercial, paid by Coca-Cola.
So when you have those guys andyou have millions of people
introducing Taylor Swift totheir own friends and family,
right, we don't enjoy that andthen we complain again.
All the things that I feel.
(33:18):
You know what is the mainchallenges of a singer today?
And it's the fact that theperformer today has to be in a
monumental fight to become thetop five singer in your
repertoire in the world.
And that's how is the only waythat you can not really
self-promote or struggle thatmuch Like if you are to have
that technique, that singing,that level of singing, you're
(33:41):
going to be employable.
I don't tell you where.
Right, because today massivesuperstars like Nadine Sierra
have still a consistent habit ofsharing content of themselves
as a human being, as a performerspecial looks, special access,
a consistent diet of, of feedingyour audience content.
Right, that every majorperformer, entertainer of the
(34:02):
world, celebrity is doing right,like and so it.
It just worries me today thatthe performer today, besides not
having that mindset of ofexcellence, of that the
technology of today also hasmade us expect success very fast
and it can be with social mediaand with things you can.
You can really like, win acompetition and and be
discovered pretty fast.
(34:22):
If you're good, you can see.
You know when did emilyd'angelo erupted in in the
business?
Maybe 17, 18 in opera inportugal, and now I've seven
years is booked in the top 10opera houses every single month.
Right, like, there'spossibility if the level is
there.
But today there's so much noisebecause your competition, even
the struggling artists maybeconnect online better than you
(34:45):
and they may make you feel thatthere you're not successful as
much.
But then then the superinfluencer singer never gets a
booking, so that person feelsthat is not successful.
With diversity have been thrownaround too, and again with
economics reducing the sizes ofoutput that we have for the
workforce.
Now every single ethnicity orevery single race represented in
(35:08):
, especially in the Americanstages feels angry.
I see it in my hate mail, rightLike the white person is like
oh, you're super diverse, I onlygot one gig.
The black one is like you'resuch a racist one because I just
got one gig.
The Mexican is like, hey,you're only helping this person
because they only saw oneMexican getting that gig.
And the Asian Opera Alliance isgoing to create a whole like
post about you know you only shy100.
(35:30):
But I said I have four gigs togive and by being democratic I'm
not helping the career of anyfour right, because the four is
not.
You're not creating aconsistency of something.
So it's because of the economic.
That's why I wanted to get outMany of the things that you are
today.
Experience of frustration as asinger or a conductor or a
pianist or anything in thisbusiness is just at the root of
(35:51):
it Lack of opportunities becauseof the economy, representation
of who we are in the world.
If that is not addressed,everything else is almost
masturbatory content for me andI'm the casting director.
But again, because I work forso many and I see that I have to
fundraise for Munich and I haveto fundraise for Croatia and
Mexico and Argentina and thelabel, whoever it is in this
(36:11):
business, is fundraising thosewho have good cash flow.
The talent that is goodevaporates to the best bidder
right away.
You know so.
All of these are for money.
You know so if we're not veryaware and also we don't see
those things, things we can getinvolved by the toxicity of it
and then it gets even worse, youknow, because then we're
fighting for peanuts when reallythe enchiladas are bubbles.
(36:34):
In september, october, I went tolondon to the business of opera
forum, sponsored by lit loud, atrust fund, and they brought
the the guy that created themarketing campaign for the
olympics to land in london in2012 and it was was so funny
because I have advocated manythings like that, you know, but
I'm always shut down.
But he said you know, you needto act together.
(36:54):
Someone needs to kind of likesponsor the marketing of your
industry and bring brands andcelebrities to endorse you?
Right, and all of us were like,ok.
And then, at the same time,it's like, ok, who's willing to
organize the Olympic Committeeof Opera?
We're like, okay.
And then, the same time, it'slike, okay, who's willing to
organize the olympic committeeof opera?
The business like the who isthe commission of opera that is
gonna say listen, I have 400places of music making around
(37:14):
the world in 17 differentmarkets and our businesses worth
seven billion dollars.
X brand.
Like, if you get to announceyourself in every single venue
from our commission of opera,give us 30 million dollars that
then we can redistribute to Xamount of people every single
day.
Within, no one is promotingopera as a sport and I think
that we are seeing the era where, finally, classical music.
(37:37):
We can make the argument rightof many things, but the world is
into less resources in anything, so luxury things like us are
starting to get questioned inevery part of the world.
So if opera doesn't realizethat they have to find a way to
matter again to the commoncitizen, we're going to extend.
And within the casting process,right, like I feel many times
(37:57):
when I find in the casting it'slike, yes, but you're not
getting cast because of theeconomy is this way?
So now I need more of theinfluencer, and of course the
influencer brings their ownaudience, and of course the
influencer brings their ownaudience and, of course, if they
sing well, even better.
Right, so it's a combination ofmany stuff that today an artist
needs to be aware.
So A don't take it personally,it's really really, really hard.
Everybody's suffering from thesame.
(38:18):
The superstars are becauseabsolutely, and every single
aspect of the performing,evaluating art, are incredibly
good at it, and those are theguys that we have to hook on
ourselves many times.
Elizabeth Bowman (38:30):
I love the idea of having sort of an
overarching media company thatwould act as a chief of
partnership for the industry andall the opera houses, let's say
, in North America or evenglobally.
I mean, they could do thisglobally and have very specific
influencers that would targetthose audiences.
(38:52):
Like do the research, figureout the kinds of people in that
community and then figure outthe kinds of influencers that
would do the best job, and thatwon't necessarily mean those who
have the most followers or'sabout engagement and it's about
what that community is engagingin.
So if you do the research andyou find the right partnerships
(39:15):
and you have an agency that isin charge of actually doing this
research and figuring out allthese partnerships and that's
their specialty, that would belike a huge service for the
industry.
I love that idea.
David Lomelí (39:27):
Well, and also, if you really think about it, like
every major sports you know,like that has an industry
attached right Like golf, soccer, football, you know the
industry has already all themedia channels, attentions,
know-how, circle and cycle right.
Like that, when the meritocracyof a super talented rock like a
(39:47):
Messi or a jitter or somethinglike this, the system is so
ready for a talent like thatthat you don't have to
self-promote yourself.
The industry becomes your allyto promote yourself, make you a
bankable brand because you havedemonstrated that you have that
talent here.
How many guys?
Everybody that writes me in myhate mail is like oh, but I'm
good, of course you're good.
Everybody that writes me in myhate mail is like oh, but I'm
(40:08):
good, of course you're good.
Everybody that is singingalready in a level one worldwide
is good.
It's what that is extra,because again, there's like six
jobs to give that.
How you become that one ofthose six?
But we would be better if wehave better infrastructure, if
we have media agreements, if wehave everything that allows us
democratization to the access ofattention to our audience.
(40:28):
But we're so pompous about whohas access to these things and
we don't want people to see usflawed or missing a note or
something, but somehow we seelike major athletes of the world
that work as hard as us,getting injured in real life and
sometimes like life-threateningthings, because that's why you
get paid that much.
If you don't have so manypeople watching you and spending
(40:51):
their lives and breaths for you, why would you get paid?
That's what I don't understandwith my fellow performers and
even my fellow industriesProfessionalists is like why are
we so aggrieved to investingaltogether in buying ourselves?
We have the cash.
If we as an industry get a potof $10 million a year reinvested
into, like digital marketingfor the industry of opera, I
(41:12):
promise you there's scienceabout it we will change the
perception and the lobbying Like.
The other day I read that OpenAIhas like 400 employees and 40%
of them are lobbying.
The way that worldwide opinionmakers seen AI.
How many people work in operaaround the world?
Way more than 400.
How many percentage are loving?
Let's just say in America.
(41:33):
You know, like when I was partof the Strategic Committee on
Diversity in Opera, america weshare a representative.
We share we dance USA.
We share one representativekind of loving into the American
Senate and Congress.
I'm like we have one, but westill have that many people in
development in Chicago or Dallaswe couldn't have like 50
(41:54):
lobbings Like.
Why don't you companiessponsoring one of them Right
Like because we think so microand never just without exactly
have to jump like we will neverin a sports arena think that the
marketing of the Yankees isbigger than the marketing of the
MLB.
That actually puts everybody.
We know the Yankees are great,we know Real Madrid is great,
but the FIFA marketing, the FIFAadvocating for that aspect of
(42:18):
humanity is what we lack, rightLike, we prefer the micro and we
don't help actually the healthyeconomy of the sport.
Elizabeth Bowman (42:25):
I know you have to go, so I will wrap this
up, but I do want to say thatwhen you talk about people in
the industry so afraid to showmistakes, show an imperfection,
this is obviously, like a hugepart of the classical music as a
whole industry, something thatwe need to get over.
And my mantra as a publicist ishonesty resonates, and I
(42:50):
couldn't agree more right nowwith the idea that honesty does
resonate, and that's ultimatelywhat we all want to see.
We do want to see, we want tohear your stories, we want to
see the struggles involved inthat career, we want to see you
stand up again and then prevailagain and again, and then
(43:13):
struggle again and then prevail.
And I'm a runner, not like agreat runner, but I like running
, and the reason why I likerunning is this idea of the
struggle, the goal, this idea ofthe struggle, the goal.
You set a goal you try toachieve that goal.
And you know, I have a marathongoal that is like pretty lofty
(43:39):
and I'm, you know, and I keep itlofty.
And I told my son the other dayit was like well, I've gone,
I've done two marathons and Ihave not succeeded yet.
I mean, I, I achieved, Icrossed the finish line.
So I guess, you know, you know,you know a lot of people would
say that that's, that's anachievement in itself and and I
would too but ultimately, like,my lofty goal is still there.
And I tell my son what my goalis and I'm like it's just about
(43:59):
getting up again and tryingagain and that, you know, I know
that resonates with my childrenand I know that that idea of
lofty goals and trying toachieve them resonates with
people around the world ingeneral.
So, yeah, I'd love to see thatmore in our industry and I'm so
glad to talk to you and I feellike we we could do like 10
podcast episodes together.
David Lomelí (44:21):
Absolutely no.
Thank you so much for the combo.
I really enjoy your mind.
And what are you asking?
Because I think, even if it'sjust to put out the idea out
there, you know, like I again,those are the projects that now
again, I'm still casting and I'mdoing my scouting and
everything but one more I'mbuilding and with some
confidentiality, like theprojects that I hope that I can
(44:43):
help in a way or address this.
You know, I wish exactly whatyou say that we have a netflix
show that shows the struggle ofevery person right of that,
really the connection of that,and that we cannot control
always how we've been seen,because the more honest we are,
the more human we look andbetter we connect this, this
robotic aspect, even likesometimes when we do
(45:04):
transmission, then we're like soproper, and what is the
characters like thinking?
I'm like no, are you scaredtoday?
Like like, how does it feellike you just won the
championship?
We don't want to act like well,susanna said in the act.
Elizabeth Bowman (45:16):
No, you know like, tell me my human aspect.
Thanks for being here today and, uh, I'll look forward to
chatting with you again me toocan't wait.
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