June 5, 2025 • 28 mins
The arts sector has seen a steady decline in audience attendance over the past four decades. Yet many organizations continue relying on traditional marketing strategies that speak primarily to insiders—those already familiar with their art forms—rather than reaching new, curious audiences.
Ruth Hartt is challenging this paradigm with a forward-thinking, audience-first approach to arts marketing. With a unique background as both a professional opera singer and a business innovation expert, she introduces Harvard Business School professor Clayton Christensen’s influential “jobs to be done” framework—a groundbreaking theory of consumer behavior—as a powerful tool for audience growth.
Instead of targeting demographics or promoting artistic features, Ruth urges arts leaders to understand what people are really seeking—stress relief, connection, inspiration—and position the arts as a way to meet those needs. It’s not about diluting artistic excellence; it’s about creating relevant, resonant entry points for a broader public.
With examples like the Peabody Essex Museum’s “Escape the Algorithm” campaign, Ruth shows how this shift in perspective opens the door to entirely new audience segments. She also tackles common resistance to the idea of “customers,” arguing that it’s not about commercialization—it’s about making the transformative power of art accessible and relatable.
Whether you’re an artist, marketer, administrator, or advocate, this conversation is a practical and inspiring guide to reimagining arts marketing and revitalizing cultural participation.
All episodes are also available in video form on our YouTube Channel. All episodes are hosted by Elizabeth (Lizzie) Bowman.
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Don't hesitate to reach out to us with guest ideas, information you'd like covered, or any ideas you might have—the hope is for this to be a continuous resource and dialogue with our listeners.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Elizabeth Bowman (00:00):
Hi, I'm Elizabeth Bowman and welcome to
the Scene Room.
Today I have Ruth Hartt in theroom.
She is rebuilding culturalaudiences through a radically
customer-first model.
Ruth merges nearly two decadesas an opera singer with deep
expertise in customer-centricinnovation.
She equips arts organizationswith the strategies they need to
(00:23):
reverse audience decline andspark new growth.
If you're enjoying the podcast,please do like, share, review,
do any of those things.
It really helps keep theseconversations going.
I'm really delighted to haveRuth here.
I followed her on LinkedIn.
She's always saying interestingand thought-provoking things on
(00:44):
there, so let's get to it.
Ruth, welcome to the scene room.
Thanks so much for coming.
Thank you so much for having me.
Ruth Hartt (00:50):
Elizabeth, tell us where you're podcasting from, so
I am based in coastal Maine andit's finally warming up here.
It's been a very long, slowspring, but we're finally easing
into a warmer season.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:05):
I spent many summers in Maine on Popham Beach
so beautiful, just the perfectplace for little families and
the best lobster rolls around.
I've been following you onLinkedIn and really admire all
that you present on there, allthe very thought provoking ideas
you have and other people'sideas that you share as well
that obviously align with yourthought process.
(01:27):
Can you tell the scene roomaudience a little bit about what
you do and what you're workingon and just your overall who you
are?
Ruth Hartt (01:34):
Absolutely so.
I come from the world of opera,as you do as well.
I started out my career as anopera singer and a music
educator and was doing all thethings that artists do to sort
of cobble together a living, andI spent a good amount of time
doing that and then made a kindof dramatic transition into a
whole different career.
I landed at a think tank, whichwas not anything I had ever
(01:57):
planned for my life, but it wasa fascinating pivot, a really
fascinating world to land in.
It was a think tank that wasstarted by a Harvard Business
School professor, claytonChristensen, and I had never
heard of him before, but itturns out that he was a
world-renowned business thinkerand so famous that you know
people were constantly callingyou know ambassadors of
(02:19):
countries and Fortune 500 CEOscalling for his advice on how to
tackle big problems in theirindustry.
And so, for me, I just had akind of a boot camp in not only
nonprofit management but alsobusiness theory and business
frameworks.
I started learning about howClayton Christensen talked,
about how to build sustainablecompanies and how to attract
customers, and, of course,immediately I had a light bulb
(02:41):
go off in my own mind because Istarted thinking to myself why
aren't we using these ideas inthe arts?
Because we're losing audiences,we're having a hard time being
sustainable and attractingcustomers.
So I want to explore, like,what would it look like to apply
these ideas to the arts?
And so started blogging aboutthose ideas and applying them to
the art sector and reallystarted to uncover what I think
(03:04):
is the way forward for all ofthese arts organizations who
right now, are feeling likethere is no path forward.
So it was a very exciting wayto merge my two worlds.
Elizabeth Bowman (03:14):
So Clayton Christensen is the one who
promoted the theory of jobs tobe done.
Ruth Hartt (03:20):
Yes, so Clay was one of the architects of the theory
and he wrote the book the bookabout jobs to be done and he
wrote the book.
The book about jobs to be done.
That he wrote is calledcompeting against luck, and I
highly recommend it for anyonewho wants to do a deep dive in
this jobs to be done framework.
Elizabeth Bowman (03:33):
Can you tell us a little bit about this
theory and because you've spokenabout it often, and so tell us
a little bit about what it means.
Ruth Hartt (03:41):
Yeah, so this is probably one of the first
frameworks that I learned at theClayton Christensen Institute.
That really caught my ear.
I think it's really spoke to meas an opera singer, as an actor
, and with all the training thatI had on digging into a
character's motivation andmaking sure that when I was on
stage I was connecting you knowall of my gestures and my facial
(04:02):
expressions to genuine meaning.
Otherwise, you know all of mygestures and my facial
expressions to genuine meaning.
Otherwise, you know theaudience wouldn't really care.
So jobs to be done to me is avery similar idea.
It's really a very simpleframework on the surface and it
tells us, you know, why peoplemake the choices that they make.
I think it's so importantbecause in the arts, most of us
(04:22):
think in terms of demographicsright, we say, well, what age
are they, what income bracketare they, what ethnicity are
they in and how can we reachthem in those ways.
But Jobs to Be Done thinksabout what motivates people in a
whole different way.
It really is more about not whothey are, but what they're
trying to accomplish in theirlives, and so really you know
why we buy things is not aboutbuying a product or service, but
(04:46):
it's about achieving an outcome.
It's a fascinating way to kindof flip the lens from you know
what are we trying to sell tothese people?
And turn it on its head and saywhat are people trying to
accomplish in their lives, like,who do they want to become and
what outcomes or benefits ortransformations are they looking
for that we can actuallyprovide for them through our
products?
Elizabeth Bowman (05:06):
And I guess the question is how do we survey
our audience's current andperspective to determine what
you're talking about here, andhow would you do that?
Ruth Hartt (05:16):
So I always like to start with sort of a macro look
at the world, because when welook at national consumer trends
, we can kind of get a sense ofwhat outcomes people are seeking
in their lives.
And so there's a lot ofincredible research out there
done by firms like McKinsey andDeloitte and GWI and the Pew
Research lots of other areas aswell where you can start to dig
(05:38):
into what it is that people arestruggling with, what motivates
them, what outcomes they'relooking for in their lives, and
that gives an incredible startto thinking about our community,
right, how do these trends mapto our community and what does
it mean for how we can reachthem?
And what I love about startingwith this macro approach is you
can actually quantify whatpercent of people in your
(06:01):
community are actually seekingthings like wellness or stress
relief or a digital detox or anynumber of things that you can
find.
And I think it's you know it'ssuch a different approach than
who can we find that lovesclassical music, which is, you
know, not that big of a number.
You know it's like you know,six percent of the population
(06:22):
now that's attending classicalmusic performances.
So when you flip it on its headand say okay, these outcomes
that we know art can provide youknow, how many people are
actually seeking those.
The numbers are massive, which Ithink is really exciting, and
so you asked about.
You know how do you find out?
How do you survey your audience.
So I like to take those sort ofmacro ideas and those outcomes
and then send a survey to theaudience and say pick one, what
(06:43):
is your biggest priority rightnow, in your world today?
To really start to crafttargeted messaging and to really
speak to people on a reallydeeply resonant level around
what they care about, whatmatters to them.
You know what outcomes are theylooking for in their lives.
I think it really opens up somemagic there.
Elizabeth Bowman (06:59):
Definitely this macro approach that makes
total sense and how you mightform a marketing campaign based
on bigger scope ideas aboutbehavior rather than, yes, your
love for classical music orclassical entertainment or live
music or any of these things.
You shared a campaign the otherday on linkedin that captures
(07:23):
this.
Can you tell a little bit aboutthat campaign, because I'll
show the images on the videoversion of this podcast as well,
just to accompany what you'reabout to say?
Ruth Hartt (07:32):
Yes, and I think you're referring to the Peabody
Essex Museum.
Elizabeth Bowman (07:35):
Yeah Right, that's right yeah.
Ruth Hartt (07:37):
So I somebody sent this to me on LinkedIn and I
immediately got pretty excited,because it's really rare to find
marketing in the arts sectorthat has a really clear customer
first value proposition and wecan talk about value proposition
in a minute but this particularorganization is the Peabody
Essex Museum in Salem,massachusetts.
(07:57):
They partnered with an ad agencycalled Hatch and they crafted
something which I thought wasincredible.
So what they did was, instead oftalking about the product, the
museum, the, you know whatyou're going to see in the
museum, they talked about aproblem that people are facing
in their lives, which is thisoverload of the digital world
right, screens and the algorithmand doom, scrolling and all of
(08:19):
that, and so they were comparingand contrasting the museum
experience with being suckedinto your phone, right, and so
the tagline for this is escapethe algorithm.
So this is the museum's tagline,and you've got all these
different plays on words.
You know, stroll is greaterthan symbol scroll, and then
(08:40):
scenes is greater than screens,and then art is greater than
artificial, and so it's just.
I think it's so incredible howthey're giving people a reason
to care about museums, againbecause they're talking about
the transformation or theoutcome that they can provide
that so many people are lookingfor, which is a break from the
screen and a real worldexperience, and so, yeah, that
(09:02):
was one that really stood out tome as a fantastic example a
real world, experience and so,yeah, that was one that really
stood out to me as a fantasticexample.
Elizabeth Bowman (09:07):
Yeah, really fantastic marketing.
I feel like libraries andmuseums always get it first.
Yeah, the classical performingarts institutions are always
last.
We need to move it on.
Ruth Hartt (09:17):
Yeah, I don't know why that is.
Elizabeth Bowman (09:18):
But yeah, I do find libraries really because
they've had to really adjust,you know, because people aren't
necessarily like running to thelibrary, as they used to, to
just get out books like they.
They understood who they wouldbe evolve into in order to be a
relevant space.
They've understood therelevance argument right away
(09:39):
off the bat, and I guess that'sour struggle here.
But, yes, I love that adcampaign.
So if you're listening on thepodcast, just I guess I'll throw
that in a reel and also in thevideo version.
Ruth Hartt (09:52):
Yeah, and you mentioned the word relevance.
Which is like one of mysoapboxes, and that's one of the
things that sort of started meon this journey was I, you know,
another opera singer moment.
I was seeing that wordeverywhere in the art sector and
of course, my opera singerbrain is like what does that
word mean?
What's you know, what's thetranslation, what's the
etymology of that word?
And I went digging and it turnsout the word relevance comes
(10:15):
from the Latin relevare, whichactually originally meant to be
helpful, and to me that totallyencompasses this idea of the
jobs to be done framework.
Right, so if you're going toattract customers, you have to
be helpful to them, you have toprovide them with an outcome
that they're seeking, and sothat's the way that I love to
think about relevance and, likeyou say, I think libraries have
figured that out.
Elizabeth Bowman (10:41):
So, being the voice of change that you are
within this industry, can I askwhat resistance you encounter
most on this journey?
Ruth Hartt (10:45):
I would say the most common resistance is really
this emotional knee-jerkreaction to what I'm talking
about, because I use the wordcustomer.
Right, I talk aboutproduct-centric versus
customer-centric, and I think alot of people, when they hear
this kind of language, theystart to worry that changing
their approach to not focus onthe product means, you know,
(11:07):
abandoning their artistic ideals, their artistic excellence,
dumbing down the product.
That comes up a lot,particularly with the artists,
the artistic directors, you know, those types that really feel
that their job is to preservethe art form and to preserve the
tradition, and so I would saythat is probably the biggest
(11:27):
resistance that I encounter.
Elizabeth Bowman (11:29):
It's interesting that they would have
that resistance, mainly becausethe role of the arts marketer
is to create an access point forthe product that they are
presenting within the theater.
So it doesn't necessarily haveto align entirely with what is
happening on the stage, but youhave to provide, obviously, an
(11:50):
honest connection to thatproduct.
But sometimes the thing that'sgoing to happen on stage is too
complicated for the averageaudience member to necessarily
get into their head in that like0.2 second range that we
apparently require now in theage of the scrolling Right, and
(12:11):
we have very little time to getsomeone to buy a ticket, little
time to get someone to buy aticket.
So to align a marketingcampaign artistically with what
is happening on stage isactually, I think, impossible,
because the thing that is onstage does take time to marinate
in and the thing that obviouslygets them to buy the ticket
doesn't.
So these are just two differentexperiences, two different
(12:34):
expertise.
Ruth Hartt (12:35):
Anyway, yeah, no, I like what you're saying.
I think you know I don't knowif you've read Nina Simon's book
, the Art of Relevance, but shetalks about creating relevant
doorways, right.
So, and I like that, I likethat image.
I also like to talk aboutmaking the connections for these
people who aren't familiar withthe art form, to their real
lives, like showing them exactlyhow this particular experience
(12:57):
can bring them the outcomes thatthey're looking for.
Right, I think that's the jobof the marketer.
The other thing that I thinkcomes up in terms of resistance
for a lot of arts leaders isthis worry that if we change the
way we market, what if we loseour current patrons?
That's another one that comes upa lot, and I think it's
interesting because it reallykind of shows the way that we're
(13:19):
thinking about sort of themarketing funnel in general.
Right, I think that a lot oftimes, what we see in arts
marketing is this focus on theloyal patrons, which is why I
talk so much about how artsmarketing needs to shift,
because most of the marketingthat we see talks about the
product and you know it's reallytargeting the folks who already
know about the product, right,and so what I'm saying?
(13:39):
I'm saying don't.
You're not going to ignore the,the loyals, right?
You're not going to ignore thefolks who already know and love
your art form.
You're just going to add on therest of the marketing funnel
that you've been ignoring, right?
And so you're going to start tocreate content that actually
speaks to all these other peoplewho aren't familiar with the
art form but are seeking thethings that the arts can provide
(14:00):
, and so that's where themarketing funnel and the value
proposition starts to becomeimportant.
Elizabeth Bowman (14:04):
In 2011, I think I was executive director
of a small chamber ensemble andhad to rebrand and do a sort of
marketing facelift to thisorganization in order for it to
survive.
It was in a dire position atthe time when I came on board,
but there was this loyal fanbase who would come.
(14:29):
It was a small but mighty andcompletely loyal group of a
certain age bracket.
So there was the challengeright Like suddenly I had to
change the marketing message,change the graphics.
It was a lot for those patronsto handle, and what I did was I
actually started doing audiencesegmentation, so obviously
(14:51):
understanding who those peoplewere, and then including
handwritten notes to them, whichtook time because there were
like 80 of them, but notextremely long notes, but trying
to just so that they wouldunderstand that there was a some
element of personal connectionthere.
So they see all the change inthe language and the new
(15:11):
graphics and all this stuff, butthen there's a personal note,
you know, and so it's reallyabout just connection and and
they need to feel seen.
Ruth Hartt (15:20):
So yeah, I love that , and I think that that is sort
of ties into the idea that whenyou are changing your approach
as an organization, you have tonot only talk about the change
within the staff, but you haveto communicate the change to
organization.
You have to not only talk aboutthe change within the staff,
but you have to communicate thechange to your.
You know all of thesestakeholders, like the loyal
audiences and the donors right,they need to understand we are
(15:40):
making these changes because wewant to thrive in the future and
so, you know, enlisting them tobe a part of that change I
think can be really beneficialas well.
Elizabeth Bowman (15:49):
For smaller arts organizations that don't
really have a budget to do thesebig surveys or these kinds of
things.
You mentioned earlier thatthere are these studies done by
McKinsey and Deloitte.
Where does one find these?
Ruth Hartt (16:05):
You just Google them .
So yeah, if you go on to youknow these research
organizations like McKinsey andDeloitte and GWI, you're going
to find incredible wealth ofresearch and they are sometimes
specific to generations, sothere can be a 50-page article
on the millennials or Gen Z.
But also sometimes they're moregeneral consumer trends and
(16:27):
they can be national, they canbe global.
You just kind of have to do alittle digging.
But, like I said, it wasMcKinsey, deloitte, gwi, pew.
There's a lot of organizationsout there that do this kind of
work and they put out studiesconstantly, even like the
American PsychologicalAssociation.
They've got studies out thereabout, you know, the levels of
stress and anxiety that are outin the world.
So I think probably the bestplace to start is one of my
(16:49):
favorite books, which is yourBrain on Art, which talks about
the outcomes that the arts canprovide, right?
And so you look through thatbook and you look and see, okay,
well, the arts helps withphysical well-being and it helps
with stress and helps withanxiety.
So let's go find some dataaround those issues and how many
people are struggling withthose issues, and then that can
sort of focus you in on whatperhaps your community is also
(17:11):
struggling with and looking for.
Elizabeth Bowman (17:19):
I love that idea of using these big
businesses to the benefit of thesmaller arts organizations.
I've actually spoken to a lotof people in the arts and
they're not necessarily lookingat the data from these various
companies, so this is a greatidea.
Ruth Hartt (17:27):
Yeah, well, it's funny, I think we get so insular
in the arts world.
We don't tend to think aboutwhat's happening in the world at
large.
You're like we don't exist in avacuum.
Is, I think, my point right?
So understanding what'shappening in terms of consumer
behaviors and trends andpriorities, I think is actually
incredibly valuable for the arts.
So I agree.
Elizabeth Bowman (17:48):
Can you tell us a little bit about what
you're working on specificallyright now?
Ruth Hartt (17:52):
Yeah, I actually just created a free resource for
arts organizations that I'mpretty excited about.
One of the, I think, the mainissues with arts marketing is
that the value proposition,which is really the foundation
for everything that you create.
You know, your website, yoursocial media, all of that.
So in the arts, the valueproposition tends to be very
(18:13):
product focused, and so I wantedto create something to help
arts organizations figure outhow to make that pivot from
talking about the product andthe features of the product,
which doesn't really work whenyou're trying to grow, right,
when you're trying to attractpeople who don't really care
about the product, right.
So I created this playbook tohelp arts organizations really
craft a solid value propositionthat's really customer focused,
(18:36):
and so it's all around answeringthe questions that customers
have, whether they know it ornot, when they're thinking about
you know what they're going topull into their lives, what
they're going to buy, spendmoney on, spend time on, and it
really is.
I think the value propositionitself is all about answering
that question why should I care?
Or what's in it for me, right?
And so there are five elementsin this playbook that I
(18:57):
encourage arts organizations tolook at.
They're sort of the fivequestions that customers have.
So the first is what problemcan you solve for me?
The second is how will my lifebe better if I engage with this
product?
And the third is how will youmake it happen?
And the fourth is how are youdifferent from all the other
alternatives that say they solvethis same problem?
And then the fifth is how can Itrust that you can deliver on
(19:19):
this promise?
So those five building blocksthe problem, the outcome, the
solution, the differentiationand the proof are things that I
rarely see in the arts world,and I think if you can answer
those questions, especially onyour homepage of your website,
it instantly helps the newcomersay oh yeah, I need that, right,
because I have that problem, orI'm looking for that outcome,
(19:41):
and that's the kind of thingwhere you can vary.
You know, like you said, whatis it?
The two seconds that you've gotto catch someone's attention.
Those are the kinds ofquestions you have to answer
very quickly so that thenewcomer can say yeah, you know
what.
I need to investigate this,right, I need to learn more, I
need to buy a ticket, becausethis is something I need in my
life.
So I'm excited about thisplaybook and I think I'm hoping
it'll be useful for folks.
Elizabeth Bowman (20:02):
And you can check that out on your website,
I assume.
Ruth Hartt (20:05):
Yeah, it's cultureforhirecom slash playbook
.
Elizabeth Bowman (20:09):
Where do you see the arts industry going in
the next sort of five years?
Ruth Hartt (20:21):
like with all this AI business, also integrated
into our system.
So here's a stat from one ofthose big research studies that
I mentioned 51% of thepopulation is really concerned
about AI and not reallyinterested in engaging with it
or, you know, just in generalnot feeling comfortable with it.
And I think that's a hugeopportunity for arts
organizations to say, hey, weare not in any way, shape or
form, created by AI.
Right, we are authentic, we aregenuine, we're created by
(20:42):
humans in real time.
So I think that's my take on AIat the moment, but in the next
five to 10 years.
So when you look at the data,when you look at the National
Endowment for the Arts and howaudiences have declined steadily
over the last 40 years, itdoesn't look good.
And when you pair that withColleen Dillon Schneider's work
on impacts experience, whenshe's looking at the negative
(21:04):
substitution rate, you know ifwe don't change what we're doing
, if we don't become morerelevant, if we don't adapt to
the digital world that we nowlive in, it really the steady
decline continues.
But I think if we can start toshift, start to adapt our
business models of our valuepropositions to really connect
with who consumers are today, Ithink we have a chance to really
(21:27):
massively turn things around interms of being more relevant,
becoming more essential andshowing people how important we
are because of the outcomes thatwe provide.
So that is my vision, you knowto bring these ideas to the
sector and really start thatmovement of reclaiming our
relevance.
Elizabeth Bowman (21:46):
If we use the tools, the AI and stuff in terms
of the machine behind the art,then I think it's all in good
practice.
Ruth Hartt (21:58):
Absolutely yeah.
Any chance you get to automateand take more work off the backs
of these overworked artsleaders Absolutely yeah.
Elizabeth Bowman (22:08):
Yeah, the poor arts administrators everywhere.
Yeah, the poor artsadministrators everywhere.
(22:34):
We were talking before thepodcast about how a lot of arts
administrators may or may not beunderpaid and what are your
thoughts on the importance ofthat and how it's going to
manifest going forward.
Ruth Hartt (22:39):
This is what I love about this customer first
approach, the jobs to be doneapproach, right?
So, instead of you knowthinking about demographics and
you know having these sort ofone-off initiatives to try to
bring in these more diverseaudiences, I just love this idea
that, when you think about theoutcome that the customer is
seeking, it has nothing to dowith the demographic, but what
(23:01):
it does is it opens up the door,opens up access for all
different types of people, right?
So, instead of just people whoknow and love classical music or
opera, you're now reaching outto people who are seeking
wellness outcomes, people whoare seeking stress relief, right
?
People who are dealing withanxiety, all these different
things that everyone in theworld today is struggling with,
(23:23):
and I think it really opens upaccess and sort of illuminates
value for these folks who, youknow, clayton Christensen would
call them non-consumers, right?
People who have never seenvalue in your product before,
and it starts to really showthem.
You know what I need?
That, right?
That's something I neverconsidered before.
That could be useful, but youknow, they're talking about an
orchestral concert as being, youknow, a screen free experience
(23:45):
and a way to lower cortisol andall the things that I've been
thinking about in my life, andso that I think is it's you're
embedding DEI in your businessmodel.
When you start to think of itthat way, you've got the
foundation, the valueproposition as the customer
outcome and everything sort ofbuilds on that.
That's what I love about howthis sort of brings in the DEI,
(24:06):
without it being these littleside projects, but really
embedding into the businessmodel.
Elizabeth Bowman (24:11):
Yeah, that makes total sense.
It just reminded me of apodcast I was listening to the
other day about parenting.
I know this is not what ourpodcast is about today, but I
could talk parenting all daylong, so go for it.
It was talking about how kidsthese days, because they have
Google Maps and they have thesewatches that they wear, that
navigate everywhere for them andthey're over-supervised.
(24:38):
Well, you know, depending onthe environment I'm not
commenting on on the supervisionof children but they generally
are less free than we were whenwe were growing up.
You know, I walked pretty farto school on my own from a young
age and anyway, this createscognitive behavior, obviously,
in that you're mapping whereyou're going, you know you might
(24:59):
turn left here, you might turnright there.
You know that you have aboutlike eight different options in
terms of root and this opens upactual thought process in your
brain, like it's working on yourbrain development, like it's
key to decision-making andthings like that that you
wouldn't necessarily think of.
Right, and music, learning musicdevelops the same sort of areas
(25:22):
as well, because you're I mean,if you're playing piano, you're
, there's coordination, there'smultiple tones being played at
the same time, you're processingintervals, you're mapping, and
so then I started thinking aboutlearning music and the role of
learning music and that forsomeone listening who wasn't
necessarily a musician and hadnever been a musician and had
(25:46):
children, they might think, oh,my child should now learn the
piano.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, the non-consumer is nowthinking because it and that was
not the goal of the podcast,I'm sure, but like, that's what
I came away with Like wow,that's a good marketing strategy
.
Ruth Hartt (26:02):
Because parents have a job to be done.
Right, we talked about the jobto be done framework.
Parents have a job to be done.
One of those jobs is to makesure their kids grow up enriched
and well-rounded and healthy,and there's lots of solutions
and tools that can help withthat.
Elizabeth Bowman (26:16):
Yeah, all of these ways that the brain is
developing in a world that ismoving so quickly with
technology.
And you know we're constantlytalking about too much screen
time, no screen time, and thenno video games.
Yes to some video games.
You know, or you know,educational games.
What is an educational game?
(26:37):
You?
Know, that's a whole otherpodcast.
If you could advise an artsmarketing degree program on what
to teach, what are one or twothings that you would definitely
include on your curriculum?
Ruth Hartt (26:51):
Oh, I love that question, my gosh.
I could talk about this forever.
I would absolutely start withthe idea of you know the job to
be done and thinking not aboutthe product and its features but
about the outcomes it canprovide, and then mapping that
to the needs that we see in thecommunity.
I would absolutely talk aboutthe marketing funnel and the
(27:11):
phases that a consumer goesthrough from being a
non-consumer and being totallyunaware of the arts to starting
to understand the problem thatthe arts can solve for you and
the way that their life could bebetter and why the arts are a
better choice than somethingelse out there like yoga or
exercise or meditation.
And then you know the data, theproof around what the arts can
(27:37):
do.
So that's sort of the mentalmodel for the marketing funnel,
all those different questionsthat they have that you need to
answer.
So those two I would definitelystart with, because there's so
much that you can do with thosebuilding blocks we talked about
the PBD, essex Museum, sort ofshowing how they are better than
the algorithm.
Right, that's thedifferentiation part of the
value proposition Such anincredibly powerful marketing
(27:58):
strategy when you compare, youknow, couch surfing, you know
being a couch potato, toactually getting out in the
community and hanging out withpeople and showing people how
it's a better choice in theirlives.
So I guess that those are thethings that come to mind.
If I was going to sit down andwrite out a whole curriculum,
there would be a lot more there,but that's a good start, I
guess.
Elizabeth Bowman (28:17):
Well, thanks for being on the podcast today,
and I will continue to followyou on LinkedIn and check out
your website.
It's really great to connectwith you.
Ruth Hartt (28:27):
Thanks for having me , elizabeth, this was fantastic.
Hi, I'm Elizabeth Bowman and welcome to
the Scene Room.
Today I have Ruth Hartt in theroom.
She is rebuilding culturalaudiences through a radically
customer-first model.
Ruth merges nearly two decadesas an opera singer with deep
expertise in customer-centricinnovation.
She equips arts organizationswith the strategies they need to
(00:23):
reverse audience decline andspark new growth.
If you're enjoying the podcast,please do like, share, review,
do any of those things.
It really helps keep theseconversations going.
I'm really delighted to haveRuth here.
I followed her on LinkedIn.
She's always saying interestingand thought-provoking things on
(00:44):
there, so let's get to it.
Ruth, welcome to the scene room.
Thanks so much for coming.
Thank you so much for having me.
Ruth Hartt (00:50):
Elizabeth, tell us where you're podcasting from, so
I am based in coastal Maine andit's finally warming up here.
It's been a very long, slowspring, but we're finally easing
into a warmer season.
Elizabeth Bowman (01:05):
I spent many summers in Maine on Popham Beach
so beautiful, just the perfectplace for little families and
the best lobster rolls around.
I've been following you onLinkedIn and really admire all
that you present on there, allthe very thought provoking ideas
you have and other people'sideas that you share as well
that obviously align with yourthought process.
(01:27):
Can you tell the scene roomaudience a little bit about what
you do and what you're workingon and just your overall who you
are?
Ruth Hartt (01:34):
Absolutely so.
I come from the world of opera,as you do as well.
I started out my career as anopera singer and a music
educator and was doing all thethings that artists do to sort
of cobble together a living, andI spent a good amount of time
doing that and then made a kindof dramatic transition into a
whole different career.
I landed at a think tank, whichwas not anything I had ever
(01:57):
planned for my life, but it wasa fascinating pivot, a really
fascinating world to land in.
It was a think tank that wasstarted by a Harvard Business
School professor, claytonChristensen, and I had never
heard of him before, but itturns out that he was a
world-renowned business thinkerand so famous that you know
people were constantly callingyou know ambassadors of
(02:19):
countries and Fortune 500 CEOscalling for his advice on how to
tackle big problems in theirindustry.
And so, for me, I just had akind of a boot camp in not only
nonprofit management but alsobusiness theory and business
frameworks.
I started learning about howClayton Christensen talked,
about how to build sustainablecompanies and how to attract
customers, and, of course,immediately I had a light bulb
(02:41):
go off in my own mind because Istarted thinking to myself why
aren't we using these ideas inthe arts?
Because we're losing audiences,we're having a hard time being
sustainable and attractingcustomers.
So I want to explore, like,what would it look like to apply
these ideas to the arts?
And so started blogging aboutthose ideas and applying them to
the art sector and reallystarted to uncover what I think
(03:04):
is the way forward for all ofthese arts organizations who
right now, are feeling likethere is no path forward.
So it was a very exciting wayto merge my two worlds.
Elizabeth Bowman (03:14):
So Clayton Christensen is the one who
promoted the theory of jobs tobe done.
Ruth Hartt (03:20):
Yes, so Clay was one of the architects of the theory
and he wrote the book the bookabout jobs to be done and he
wrote the book.
The book about jobs to be done.
That he wrote is calledcompeting against luck, and I
highly recommend it for anyonewho wants to do a deep dive in
this jobs to be done framework.
Elizabeth Bowman (03:33):
Can you tell us a little bit about this
theory and because you've spokenabout it often, and so tell us
a little bit about what it means.
Ruth Hartt (03:41):
Yeah, so this is probably one of the first
frameworks that I learned at theClayton Christensen Institute.
That really caught my ear.
I think it's really spoke to meas an opera singer, as an actor
, and with all the training thatI had on digging into a
character's motivation andmaking sure that when I was on
stage I was connecting you knowall of my gestures and my facial
(04:02):
expressions to genuine meaning.
Otherwise, you know all of mygestures and my facial
expressions to genuine meaning.
Otherwise, you know theaudience wouldn't really care.
So jobs to be done to me is avery similar idea.
It's really a very simpleframework on the surface and it
tells us, you know, why peoplemake the choices that they make.
I think it's so importantbecause in the arts, most of us
(04:22):
think in terms of demographicsright, we say, well, what age
are they, what income bracketare they, what ethnicity are
they in and how can we reachthem in those ways.
But Jobs to Be Done thinksabout what motivates people in a
whole different way.
It really is more about not whothey are, but what they're
trying to accomplish in theirlives, and so really you know
why we buy things is not aboutbuying a product or service, but
(04:46):
it's about achieving an outcome.
It's a fascinating way to kindof flip the lens from you know
what are we trying to sell tothese people?
And turn it on its head and saywhat are people trying to
accomplish in their lives, like,who do they want to become and
what outcomes or benefits ortransformations are they looking
for that we can actuallyprovide for them through our
products?
Elizabeth Bowman (05:06):
And I guess the question is how do we survey
our audience's current andperspective to determine what
you're talking about here, andhow would you do that?
Ruth Hartt (05:16):
So I always like to start with sort of a macro look
at the world, because when welook at national consumer trends
, we can kind of get a sense ofwhat outcomes people are seeking
in their lives.
And so there's a lot ofincredible research out there
done by firms like McKinsey andDeloitte and GWI and the Pew
Research lots of other areas aswell where you can start to dig
(05:38):
into what it is that people arestruggling with, what motivates
them, what outcomes they'relooking for in their lives, and
that gives an incredible startto thinking about our community,
right, how do these trends mapto our community and what does
it mean for how we can reachthem?
And what I love about startingwith this macro approach is you
can actually quantify whatpercent of people in your
(06:01):
community are actually seekingthings like wellness or stress
relief or a digital detox or anynumber of things that you can
find.
And I think it's you know it'ssuch a different approach than
who can we find that lovesclassical music, which is, you
know, not that big of a number.
You know it's like you know,six percent of the population
(06:22):
now that's attending classicalmusic performances.
So when you flip it on its headand say okay, these outcomes
that we know art can provide youknow, how many people are
actually seeking those.
The numbers are massive, which Ithink is really exciting, and
so you asked about.
You know how do you find out?
How do you survey your audience.
So I like to take those sort ofmacro ideas and those outcomes
and then send a survey to theaudience and say pick one, what
(06:43):
is your biggest priority rightnow, in your world today?
To really start to crafttargeted messaging and to really
speak to people on a reallydeeply resonant level around
what they care about, whatmatters to them.
You know what outcomes are theylooking for in their lives.
I think it really opens up somemagic there.
Elizabeth Bowman (06:59):
Definitely this macro approach that makes
total sense and how you mightform a marketing campaign based
on bigger scope ideas aboutbehavior rather than, yes, your
love for classical music orclassical entertainment or live
music or any of these things.
You shared a campaign the otherday on linkedin that captures
(07:23):
this.
Can you tell a little bit aboutthat campaign, because I'll
show the images on the videoversion of this podcast as well,
just to accompany what you'reabout to say?
Ruth Hartt (07:32):
Yes, and I think you're referring to the Peabody
Essex Museum.
Elizabeth Bowman (07:35):
Yeah Right, that's right yeah.
Ruth Hartt (07:37):
So I somebody sent this to me on LinkedIn and I
immediately got pretty excited,because it's really rare to find
marketing in the arts sectorthat has a really clear customer
first value proposition and wecan talk about value proposition
in a minute but this particularorganization is the Peabody
Essex Museum in Salem,massachusetts.
(07:57):
They partnered with an ad agencycalled Hatch and they crafted
something which I thought wasincredible.
So what they did was, instead oftalking about the product, the
museum, the, you know whatyou're going to see in the
museum, they talked about aproblem that people are facing
in their lives, which is thisoverload of the digital world
right, screens and the algorithmand doom, scrolling and all of
(08:19):
that, and so they were comparingand contrasting the museum
experience with being suckedinto your phone, right, and so
the tagline for this is escapethe algorithm.
So this is the museum's tagline,and you've got all these
different plays on words.
You know, stroll is greaterthan symbol scroll, and then
(08:40):
scenes is greater than screens,and then art is greater than
artificial, and so it's just.
I think it's so incredible howthey're giving people a reason
to care about museums, againbecause they're talking about
the transformation or theoutcome that they can provide
that so many people are lookingfor, which is a break from the
screen and a real worldexperience, and so, yeah, that
(09:02):
was one that really stood out tome as a fantastic example a
real world, experience and so,yeah, that was one that really
stood out to me as a fantasticexample.
Elizabeth Bowman (09:07):
Yeah, really fantastic marketing.
I feel like libraries andmuseums always get it first.
Yeah, the classical performingarts institutions are always
last.
We need to move it on.
Ruth Hartt (09:17):
Yeah, I don't know why that is.
Elizabeth Bowman (09:18):
But yeah, I do find libraries really because
they've had to really adjust,you know, because people aren't
necessarily like running to thelibrary, as they used to, to
just get out books like they.
They understood who they wouldbe evolve into in order to be a
relevant space.
They've understood therelevance argument right away
(09:39):
off the bat, and I guess that'sour struggle here.
But, yes, I love that adcampaign.
So if you're listening on thepodcast, just I guess I'll throw
that in a reel and also in thevideo version.
Ruth Hartt (09:52):
Yeah, and you mentioned the word relevance.
Which is like one of mysoapboxes, and that's one of the
things that sort of started meon this journey was I, you know,
another opera singer moment.
I was seeing that wordeverywhere in the art sector and
of course, my opera singerbrain is like what does that
word mean?
What's you know, what's thetranslation, what's the
etymology of that word?
And I went digging and it turnsout the word relevance comes
(10:15):
from the Latin relevare, whichactually originally meant to be
helpful, and to me that totallyencompasses this idea of the
jobs to be done framework.
Right, so if you're going toattract customers, you have to
be helpful to them, you have toprovide them with an outcome
that they're seeking, and sothat's the way that I love to
think about relevance and, likeyou say, I think libraries have
figured that out.
Elizabeth Bowman (10:41):
So, being the voice of change that you are
within this industry, can I askwhat resistance you encounter
most on this journey?
Ruth Hartt (10:45):
I would say the most common resistance is really
this emotional knee-jerkreaction to what I'm talking
about, because I use the wordcustomer.
Right, I talk aboutproduct-centric versus
customer-centric, and I think alot of people, when they hear
this kind of language, theystart to worry that changing
their approach to not focus onthe product means, you know,
(11:07):
abandoning their artistic ideals, their artistic excellence,
dumbing down the product.
That comes up a lot,particularly with the artists,
the artistic directors, you know, those types that really feel
that their job is to preservethe art form and to preserve the
tradition, and so I would saythat is probably the biggest
(11:27):
resistance that I encounter.
Elizabeth Bowman (11:29):
It's interesting that they would have
that resistance, mainly becausethe role of the arts marketer
is to create an access point forthe product that they are
presenting within the theater.
So it doesn't necessarily haveto align entirely with what is
happening on the stage, but youhave to provide, obviously, an
(11:50):
honest connection to thatproduct.
But sometimes the thing that'sgoing to happen on stage is too
complicated for the averageaudience member to necessarily
get into their head in that like0.2 second range that we
apparently require now in theage of the scrolling Right, and
(12:11):
we have very little time to getsomeone to buy a ticket, little
time to get someone to buy aticket.
So to align a marketingcampaign artistically with what
is happening on stage isactually, I think, impossible,
because the thing that is onstage does take time to marinate
in and the thing that obviouslygets them to buy the ticket
doesn't.
So these are just two differentexperiences, two different
(12:34):
expertise.
Ruth Hartt (12:35):
Anyway, yeah, no, I like what you're saying.
I think you know I don't knowif you've read Nina Simon's book
, the Art of Relevance, but shetalks about creating relevant
doorways, right.
So, and I like that, I likethat image.
I also like to talk aboutmaking the connections for these
people who aren't familiar withthe art form, to their real
lives, like showing them exactlyhow this particular experience
(12:57):
can bring them the outcomes thatthey're looking for.
Right, I think that's the jobof the marketer.
The other thing that I thinkcomes up in terms of resistance
for a lot of arts leaders isthis worry that if we change the
way we market, what if we loseour current patrons?
That's another one that comes upa lot, and I think it's
interesting because it reallykind of shows the way that we're
(13:19):
thinking about sort of themarketing funnel in general.
Right, I think that a lot oftimes, what we see in arts
marketing is this focus on theloyal patrons, which is why I
talk so much about how artsmarketing needs to shift,
because most of the marketingthat we see talks about the
product and you know it's reallytargeting the folks who already
know about the product, right,and so what I'm saying?
(13:39):
I'm saying don't.
You're not going to ignore the,the loyals, right?
You're not going to ignore thefolks who already know and love
your art form.
You're just going to add on therest of the marketing funnel
that you've been ignoring, right?
And so you're going to start tocreate content that actually
speaks to all these other peoplewho aren't familiar with the
art form but are seeking thethings that the arts can provide
(14:00):
, and so that's where themarketing funnel and the value
proposition starts to becomeimportant.
Elizabeth Bowman (14:04):
In 2011, I think I was executive director
of a small chamber ensemble andhad to rebrand and do a sort of
marketing facelift to thisorganization in order for it to
survive.
It was in a dire position atthe time when I came on board,
but there was this loyal fanbase who would come.
(14:29):
It was a small but mighty andcompletely loyal group of a
certain age bracket.
So there was the challengeright Like suddenly I had to
change the marketing message,change the graphics.
It was a lot for those patronsto handle, and what I did was I
actually started doing audiencesegmentation, so obviously
(14:51):
understanding who those peoplewere, and then including
handwritten notes to them, whichtook time because there were
like 80 of them, but notextremely long notes, but trying
to just so that they wouldunderstand that there was a some
element of personal connectionthere.
So they see all the change inthe language and the new
(15:11):
graphics and all this stuff, butthen there's a personal note,
you know, and so it's reallyabout just connection and and
they need to feel seen.
Ruth Hartt (15:20):
So yeah, I love that , and I think that that is sort
of ties into the idea that whenyou are changing your approach
as an organization, you have tonot only talk about the change
within the staff, but you haveto communicate the change to
organization.
You have to not only talk aboutthe change within the staff,
but you have to communicate thechange to your.
You know all of thesestakeholders, like the loyal
audiences and the donors right,they need to understand we are
(15:40):
making these changes because wewant to thrive in the future and
so, you know, enlisting them tobe a part of that change I
think can be really beneficialas well.
Elizabeth Bowman (15:49):
For smaller arts organizations that don't
really have a budget to do thesebig surveys or these kinds of
things.
You mentioned earlier thatthere are these studies done by
McKinsey and Deloitte.
Where does one find these?
Ruth Hartt (16:05):
You just Google them .
So yeah, if you go on to youknow these research
organizations like McKinsey andDeloitte and GWI, you're going
to find incredible wealth ofresearch and they are sometimes
specific to generations, sothere can be a 50-page article
on the millennials or Gen Z.
But also sometimes they're moregeneral consumer trends and
(16:27):
they can be national, they canbe global.
You just kind of have to do alittle digging.
But, like I said, it wasMcKinsey, deloitte, gwi, pew.
There's a lot of organizationsout there that do this kind of
work and they put out studiesconstantly, even like the
American PsychologicalAssociation.
They've got studies out thereabout, you know, the levels of
stress and anxiety that are outin the world.
So I think probably the bestplace to start is one of my
(16:49):
favorite books, which is yourBrain on Art, which talks about
the outcomes that the arts canprovide, right?
And so you look through thatbook and you look and see, okay,
well, the arts helps withphysical well-being and it helps
with stress and helps withanxiety.
So let's go find some dataaround those issues and how many
people are struggling withthose issues, and then that can
sort of focus you in on whatperhaps your community is also
(17:11):
struggling with and looking for.
Elizabeth Bowman (17:19):
I love that idea of using these big
businesses to the benefit of thesmaller arts organizations.
I've actually spoken to a lotof people in the arts and
they're not necessarily lookingat the data from these various
companies, so this is a greatidea.
Ruth Hartt (17:27):
Yeah, well, it's funny, I think we get so insular
in the arts world.
We don't tend to think aboutwhat's happening in the world at
large.
You're like we don't exist in avacuum.
Is, I think, my point right?
So understanding what'shappening in terms of consumer
behaviors and trends andpriorities, I think is actually
incredibly valuable for the arts.
So I agree.
Elizabeth Bowman (17:48):
Can you tell us a little bit about what
you're working on specificallyright now?
Ruth Hartt (17:52):
Yeah, I actually just created a free resource for
arts organizations that I'mpretty excited about.
One of the, I think, the mainissues with arts marketing is
that the value proposition,which is really the foundation
for everything that you create.
You know, your website, yoursocial media, all of that.
So in the arts, the valueproposition tends to be very
(18:13):
product focused, and so I wantedto create something to help
arts organizations figure outhow to make that pivot from
talking about the product andthe features of the product,
which doesn't really work whenyou're trying to grow, right,
when you're trying to attractpeople who don't really care
about the product, right.
So I created this playbook tohelp arts organizations really
craft a solid value propositionthat's really customer focused,
(18:36):
and so it's all around answeringthe questions that customers
have, whether they know it ornot, when they're thinking about
you know what they're going topull into their lives, what
they're going to buy, spendmoney on, spend time on, and it
really is.
I think the value propositionitself is all about answering
that question why should I care?
Or what's in it for me, right?
And so there are five elementsin this playbook that I
(18:57):
encourage arts organizations tolook at.
They're sort of the fivequestions that customers have.
So the first is what problemcan you solve for me?
The second is how will my lifebe better if I engage with this
product?
And the third is how will youmake it happen?
And the fourth is how are youdifferent from all the other
alternatives that say they solvethis same problem?
And then the fifth is how can Itrust that you can deliver on
(19:19):
this promise?
So those five building blocksthe problem, the outcome, the
solution, the differentiationand the proof are things that I
rarely see in the arts world,and I think if you can answer
those questions, especially onyour homepage of your website,
it instantly helps the newcomersay oh yeah, I need that, right,
because I have that problem, orI'm looking for that outcome,
(19:41):
and that's the kind of thingwhere you can vary.
You know, like you said, whatis it?
The two seconds that you've gotto catch someone's attention.
Those are the kinds ofquestions you have to answer
very quickly so that thenewcomer can say yeah, you know
what.
I need to investigate this,right, I need to learn more, I
need to buy a ticket, becausethis is something I need in my
life.
So I'm excited about thisplaybook and I think I'm hoping
it'll be useful for folks.
Elizabeth Bowman (20:02):
And you can check that out on your website,
I assume.
Ruth Hartt (20:05):
Yeah, it's cultureforhirecom slash playbook
.
Elizabeth Bowman (20:09):
Where do you see the arts industry going in
the next sort of five years?
Ruth Hartt (20:21):
like with all this AI business, also integrated
into our system.
So here's a stat from one ofthose big research studies that
I mentioned 51% of thepopulation is really concerned
about AI and not reallyinterested in engaging with it
or, you know, just in generalnot feeling comfortable with it.
And I think that's a hugeopportunity for arts
organizations to say, hey, weare not in any way, shape or
form, created by AI.
Right, we are authentic, we aregenuine, we're created by
(20:42):
humans in real time.
So I think that's my take on AIat the moment, but in the next
five to 10 years.
So when you look at the data,when you look at the National
Endowment for the Arts and howaudiences have declined steadily
over the last 40 years, itdoesn't look good.
And when you pair that withColleen Dillon Schneider's work
on impacts experience, whenshe's looking at the negative
(21:04):
substitution rate, you know ifwe don't change what we're doing
, if we don't become morerelevant, if we don't adapt to
the digital world that we nowlive in, it really the steady
decline continues.
But I think if we can start toshift, start to adapt our
business models of our valuepropositions to really connect
with who consumers are today, Ithink we have a chance to really
(21:27):
massively turn things around interms of being more relevant,
becoming more essential andshowing people how important we
are because of the outcomes thatwe provide.
So that is my vision, you knowto bring these ideas to the
sector and really start thatmovement of reclaiming our
relevance.
Elizabeth Bowman (21:46):
If we use the tools, the AI and stuff in terms
of the machine behind the art,then I think it's all in good
practice.
Ruth Hartt (21:58):
Absolutely yeah.
Any chance you get to automateand take more work off the backs
of these overworked artsleaders Absolutely yeah.
Elizabeth Bowman (22:08):
Yeah, the poor arts administrators everywhere.
Yeah, the poor artsadministrators everywhere.
(22:34):
We were talking before thepodcast about how a lot of arts
administrators may or may not beunderpaid and what are your
thoughts on the importance ofthat and how it's going to
manifest going forward.
Ruth Hartt (22:39):
This is what I love about this customer first
approach, the jobs to be doneapproach, right?
So, instead of you knowthinking about demographics and
you know having these sort ofone-off initiatives to try to
bring in these more diverseaudiences, I just love this idea
that, when you think about theoutcome that the customer is
seeking, it has nothing to dowith the demographic, but what
(23:01):
it does is it opens up the door,opens up access for all
different types of people, right?
So, instead of just people whoknow and love classical music or
opera, you're now reaching outto people who are seeking
wellness outcomes, people whoare seeking stress relief, right
?
People who are dealing withanxiety, all these different
things that everyone in theworld today is struggling with,
(23:23):
and I think it really opens upaccess and sort of illuminates
value for these folks who, youknow, clayton Christensen would
call them non-consumers, right?
People who have never seenvalue in your product before,
and it starts to really showthem.
You know what I need?
That, right?
That's something I neverconsidered before.
That could be useful, but youknow, they're talking about an
orchestral concert as being, youknow, a screen free experience
(23:45):
and a way to lower cortisol andall the things that I've been
thinking about in my life, andso that I think is it's you're
embedding DEI in your businessmodel.
When you start to think of itthat way, you've got the
foundation, the valueproposition as the customer
outcome and everything sort ofbuilds on that.
That's what I love about howthis sort of brings in the DEI,
(24:06):
without it being these littleside projects, but really
embedding into the businessmodel.
Elizabeth Bowman (24:11):
Yeah, that makes total sense.
It just reminded me of apodcast I was listening to the
other day about parenting.
I know this is not what ourpodcast is about today, but I
could talk parenting all daylong, so go for it.
It was talking about how kidsthese days, because they have
Google Maps and they have thesewatches that they wear, that
navigate everywhere for them andthey're over-supervised.
(24:38):
Well, you know, depending onthe environment I'm not
commenting on on the supervisionof children but they generally
are less free than we were whenwe were growing up.
You know, I walked pretty farto school on my own from a young
age and anyway, this createscognitive behavior, obviously,
in that you're mapping whereyou're going, you know you might
(24:59):
turn left here, you might turnright there.
You know that you have aboutlike eight different options in
terms of root and this opens upactual thought process in your
brain, like it's working on yourbrain development, like it's
key to decision-making andthings like that that you
wouldn't necessarily think of.
Right, and music, learning musicdevelops the same sort of areas
(25:22):
as well, because you're I mean,if you're playing piano, you're
, there's coordination, there'smultiple tones being played at
the same time, you're processingintervals, you're mapping, and
so then I started thinking aboutlearning music and the role of
learning music and that forsomeone listening who wasn't
necessarily a musician and hadnever been a musician and had
(25:46):
children, they might think, oh,my child should now learn the
piano.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, the non-consumer is nowthinking because it and that was
not the goal of the podcast,I'm sure, but like, that's what
I came away with Like wow,that's a good marketing strategy
.
Ruth Hartt (26:02):
Because parents have a job to be done.
Right, we talked about the jobto be done framework.
Parents have a job to be done.
One of those jobs is to makesure their kids grow up enriched
and well-rounded and healthy,and there's lots of solutions
and tools that can help withthat.
Elizabeth Bowman (26:16):
Yeah, all of these ways that the brain is
developing in a world that ismoving so quickly with
technology.
And you know we're constantlytalking about too much screen
time, no screen time, and thenno video games.
Yes to some video games.
You know, or you know,educational games.
What is an educational game?
(26:37):
You?
Know, that's a whole otherpodcast.
If you could advise an artsmarketing degree program on what
to teach, what are one or twothings that you would definitely
include on your curriculum?
Ruth Hartt (26:51):
Oh, I love that question, my gosh.
I could talk about this forever.
I would absolutely start withthe idea of you know the job to
be done and thinking not aboutthe product and its features but
about the outcomes it canprovide, and then mapping that
to the needs that we see in thecommunity.
I would absolutely talk aboutthe marketing funnel and the
(27:11):
phases that a consumer goesthrough from being a
non-consumer and being totallyunaware of the arts to starting
to understand the problem thatthe arts can solve for you and
the way that their life could bebetter and why the arts are a
better choice than somethingelse out there like yoga or
exercise or meditation.
And then you know the data, theproof around what the arts can
(27:37):
do.
So that's sort of the mentalmodel for the marketing funnel,
all those different questionsthat they have that you need to
answer.
So those two I would definitelystart with, because there's so
much that you can do with thosebuilding blocks we talked about
the PBD, essex Museum, sort ofshowing how they are better than
the algorithm.
Right, that's thedifferentiation part of the
value proposition Such anincredibly powerful marketing
(27:58):
strategy when you compare, youknow, couch surfing, you know
being a couch potato, toactually getting out in the
community and hanging out withpeople and showing people how
it's a better choice in theirlives.
So I guess that those are thethings that come to mind.
If I was going to sit down andwrite out a whole curriculum,
there would be a lot more there,but that's a good start, I
guess.
Elizabeth Bowman (28:17):
Well, thanks for being on the podcast today,
and I will continue to followyou on LinkedIn and check out
your website.
It's really great to connectwith you.
Ruth Hartt (28:27):
Thanks for having me , elizabeth, this was fantastic.
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