June 18, 2025 • 59 mins
Mark Carter joins us to share his remarkable journey from builder to whiskey maker and the philosophy behind Old Carter's exceptional barrel-proof expressions.
• Building a hotel and restaurant led to wine making in Napa Valley
• Partnered with Dixon Dedman to revive Kentucky Owl in 2011
• Founded Old Carter immediately after selling Kentucky Owl in 2017
• Never releases whiskey younger than 7 years old with most current products 10+ years
• Meticulously tastes and grades each barrel before creating small batch blends
• Uses multiple coopers for different flavor profiles
• The Carter Club is expanding with 400 additional lockers
• American Whiskey Batch 14 contains approximately 50% whiskey aged 19-20 years
• Balance is key to creating high-proof whiskeys that don't drink "hot"
• Describes Old Carter's signature profile as having "deep, rich aromatics" with "a long finish"
• Double barreling techniques create unique flavors in their expressions
Mark Carter's path to becoming one of Kentucky's most respected whiskey makers began far from the bourbon trail. A builder by trade who constructed a hotel, then managed its restaurant, Carter's curiosity about wine led him to purchase a Napa Valley winery in 2006. When seeking custom crush clients, he connected with Kentucky innkeeper Dixon Dedman, and instead of making wine together, suggested reviving Dedman's family whiskey heritage. This collaboration birthed Kentucky Owl in 2011, which they later sold to Stoli Group in 2017—the very same day Mark launched Old Carter Whiskey.
What makes Old Carter stand out in today's crowded whiskey landscape is Mark's unwavering commitment to quality. Nothing younger than seven years reaches the bottle, with most current releases featuring whiskey aged 10+ years. The blending process reveals Carter's artistry—tasting through dozens of barrels, grading each one, then carefully combining them to achieve perfect harmony. As he describes it, "We don't like hot. We want balanced. We love flavor." This philosophy explains how Old Carter creates high-proof expressions (often above 130 proof) that drink with remarkable smoothness.
The American Whiskey Batch 14 showcased during our conversation exemplifies this approach, containing approximately 50% whiskey aged 19-20 years. Despite its 134.3 proof, it delivers sweet notes of marshmallow and crème brûlée with a warming—never burning—finish. This meticulous attention extends to their barrel program, where Mark works with multiple coopers to achieve different flavor profiles, drawing parallels to his wine-making background.
Old Carter continues to expand, with their Carter Club adding 400 new lockers and several small batch releases planned for different distributors. Mark's passion for whiskey craftsmanship shines through in every expression, creating products that whiskey enthusiasts treasure. Experience what happens when patience, expertise, and unwavering standards come together in a glass—try Old Carter and taste the difference true dedication makes.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Middle West Spirits was founded in 2008, focusing on
elevating the distinct flavorsof the Ohio River Valley.
Their spirits honor their rootsand reflect their originality
as makers, their integrity asproducers, and their the start
to the bottle, to your glass,with unique weeded and rye
(00:28):
bourbons, and also rye and wheatwhiskeys.
The Michelon brand is easy tosip.
It might be a grain-to-glassexperience, but I like to think
of it as uncut and unfilteredfrom their family to yours.
We'll be right back.
(00:52):
We're the.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Scotch and Baron boys Raising some hell and making
some noise.
Yeah, we're the Scotch andBaron boys.
(01:30):
We're here to have fun and openthe door.
We're here to have fun, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
All right, welcome back to another podcast of the
Scotchy Bourbon Boys.
All right, I stopped thesharing but let's get.
I got to get out of this screen.
That was I.
Normally do that better therewe go.
All right.
(02:18):
So let's go over here and hitzoom.
Did that do it?
Nope, somehow I got to get backto my zoom screen.
Let's see there, there, oh,we're little.
That's funny.
(02:39):
Oh wow, technical difficultiesright over it.
Okay, come on.
Now it's completely gone.
All right, let's try this onemore time Zoom.
So I must have dumped you overthere.
All right, there we go.
Got that working now.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
There you are.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
So, after the technical difficulties right off
the bat, I don't know, let'ssee.
All right, let's reload this.
I'm going to reload theFacebook because it looks like
that paused.
Yep, there we go.
We're working, working again.
So we have Mark Carter joiningus today, and I'm Tiny from the
(03:29):
Scotchy Bourbon Boys and Markwelcome to the podcast.
That's sometimes, this is whathappens to us, and I'm Tiny from
the Scotchy Bourbon Boys andMark welcome to the podcast.
So there we go, All right.
Sorry about that.
(03:50):
Good Okay, so say hi toeverybody, mark.
Oh, you know, tiny.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I know you as Jeff, that's fine.
Most people know you as Tiny.
It's great to be here andeverybody else out there that's
watching welcome, and we'regoing to be tasting a little bit
of old Carter.
I guess tonight is what Jeffsaid.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yes, yes for sure, and look forward to that
immensely.
Yes, for sure, and look forwardto that immensely.
You know one of the things youknow we've talked a couple of
times in the past.
We've been at the old CarterSocial Club with you and then
been at a bunch of differentplaces with you and Christy.
(04:39):
That initially, I can tell youthat when I knew Christy for a
while she's fantastic and when Ifound out at Kentucky Bourbon
Festival a couple of years agothat you, that she was a part of
what you know of old Carter toto some extent, and I was super,
(05:03):
super excited because oldCarter had already been
established as probably one ofmy favorite bourbons that I had
ever tried.
So you know, then, to now get toknow you a little bit and spend
time and know what kind of aperson you are, one of the
things that you know I'd likeyou to do is just tell everybody
(05:25):
how you got into this.
You know, because it's afascinating story.
Me and you have talked about ita couple of times, but it's not
just always been there, butjust you know what.
You know what led to what.
Well, you know a lot of peoplehave heard the story before, I'm
sure.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Well, you know a lot of people have heard the story
before, I'm sure, but I'm veryfortunate and a lot of people
have helped me along the way.
But I was a builder and I builta big house and that's kind of
crazy and turned it into an inn.
I kind of took off and I builta hotel and started buying wine
(06:06):
for the restaurant that westarted in the hotel and I got
involved with wine to the pointthat it was time for me to make
some wine.
So I started making wine in 98and finally bought a winery down
in Napa Valley in 06.
In 06, we were not making a lotof money at the winery.
We had quite a bit of overhead.
In 2006, we were not making alot of money at the winery, we
(06:27):
had quite a bit of overhead andso we were looking for Custom
Crush clients to fill up ourcapacity there on Tubbs Lane in
Calistoga and I talked to all myfriends that were innkeepers
and said well, you know I canmake wine for you because I have
lots of capacity a little redwine, white wine and only one
person out of the 400 inns inAmerica that I was associated
(06:50):
with wanted to actually makesome wine.
And I was here in Kentucky andhis name was Dixon Dedman and
I'll never forget and said Dixon, you know I'll do anything for
your family, we'll make somewine for you, but I don't think
that's what we should be doing.
We should probably bring backyour whiskey brand.
(07:12):
Your dad told me you used tomake whiskey and so I said you
know, why don't we do thatinstead?
And, dixon, he said we can dothat.
And I said, dixon, we can doanything we set our minds to,
and so I got a little money andI got a talented staff around me
and we can make this happen.
So we started that Kentucky Owlback in 2000 and the idea was
(07:37):
in 11, bought our barrels in 12,released our first bourbon in
2014 and that kind of took off.
And, um, we were fortunateenough and uh the uh.
I loved the business and didn'twant to really sell, but it was
good for dixon.
We sold the business and westarted old carter.
(07:59):
The next day and that was in2017 we got money from Stoli,
bought the brand and we startedactually buying barrels in 17
and distilling in 17 and we madeour first product and we turned
it out in 2018, and so oldCarter was, you know, was born
(08:22):
and, and so been working at itever since.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So it's kind of like then you've been working at it
and one of the things that youdon't do is you basically make
sure that the whiskey that youput out is aged enough, that the
whiskey that you put out isaged enough.
So, although you don't put outan age statement on your
bourbons and your whiskeys thelowest it is is seven years,
(08:54):
correct?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
It's correct.
We've never done anything, lessthan seven years.
And as far as I know, I don'tthink we've done anything
because it's all barrel prooftoo that we have never done
anything underneath 104 proof.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
So yeah.
So now you've got nothing, youknow nothing.
It's all older than seven yearsand it's barrel proof.
So you're dealing in a high-endmarket now, just because you
haven't put something out that'syounger than seven years
(09:31):
doesn't mean that you're notputting stuff older than seven
years either, correct?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
That's correct.
We've got stuff that was 27years old, single barrels that
were 27.
We got 16 year old.
Most of the single barrels thathave age statements, you know
are for the club at this pointbecause you know there's just
not enough of those to go around.
(09:58):
So it was only, you know,dedicated to the club at this
point.
Most of the product I haveright now is 10 years or older
these days and even thedistillate we made over at
Castle Key is now eight yearsold and we have never used that
(10:19):
yet.
So we'll keep aging the product.
But really a good sweet spotfor us, I think.
You know, as I'm blending Ilove 7 to 9 for a base product,
but you know I love to throw insome nice older barrels too.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So, okay, walk me through this because this is an
education for me.
I understand the blend.
So if you're throwing in 11 and12, how do you determine?
So are you emptying thosebarrels into like a stainless
steel tub or what you know tostop the aging and then using a
(10:58):
part of it for this batch andthen a part of it for the next
batch, or do you use the wholebarrel?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Use the whole barrel.
You know we taste through.
I have 88 barrels sitting on atable in my lab right now and I
had tasted through every one ofthose and I have graded those
and I have tasting notes on allof those, graded those and I
(11:28):
have tasting notes on all ofthose and even those that.
These are the very smallbatches that I'm working on
right now for each one of thedistributors and they are 11
years.
Most of those are 11 years oldand some of those have two to
three year been sitting in.
Actual, the double barrelingthat we do, which is maybe a
(11:48):
good portion of that, is doublebarreled so you're
proportionately blending, so youhave.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
So you're, you have to proportionately blend so that
it equals up to a barrel,correct I mean?
So you're at a proportion ofone, just two bottles of samples
equals two barrels.
I mean, how does that exactly?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
I'll give you.
You know, I know how much is ina barrel.
We weigh barrels, we know howmuch is in each barrel, how much
liquid is in there by takingout the barrel weight.
And you know it may be if it's10 years old.
We're lucky if we really havehalf of the barrel left.
You know, because we lose 5% ayear, mostly on an average.
(12:38):
So if you started, you know 53gallons, you have 27 roughly.
You know 53 gallons, you have27, roughly gallons.
And so I'm blending with theright percentages of each barrel
.
So I know what they're tastinglike.
But I can pick the best.
You know, if I'm doing afive-barrel blend, which is what
most of these are right now,I'll put together five barrels
(13:03):
and maybe not all of them, eventhough they're the greatest of
my entire lineup, my favoritebarrels, I put them together.
They may not actually work, andthen I'm pulling things out,
tasting things and puttingthings in until I'm happy with
the blend that I have.
And it really kind of has.
(13:24):
You know, our stamp on it, theold Carter stamp on it, which is
that deep, rich.
You know kind of aromatics thatyou get with what we have and
you know a long finish.
Those are the things you knowthat we're looking for in every
batch.
We do turn out, and we won'tturn anything out unless I
(13:48):
really you know, kind of feelreally confident that this is
one of the great products thatwe we've turned out okay.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
So, like, when you do your batch, you initially have
a starting point and that wouldbe those five barrels, but
you're thinking, well, thisbarrel might have been too much,
so you pull that barrel andsubstitute it with a different
barrel.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
That is correct.
You know it might be too muchwood.
Pull it out, Maybe put aneutral in Things like that.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
And if anybody you know that's one thing that you
know Ed, who said hi to you.
He came down for a podcast andit was pretty cool because he
brought all of his samples.
He brought 13 of the samples hewas going to make his second
batch with and he helped, hewent through it with me to blend
those samples, how he wentabout and how he did it.
(14:35):
And one of the things that hehad in those samples was a
really hot.
He had a super hot barrel andhe had another one that was
super bland and he basicallysaid that those barrels are
important when blending becausesometimes you might love the
(14:57):
blend but it's too hot and sowhen you substitute into the the
the blander barrel, all of asudden it gives you where you
want to go.
Or if the blend's too bland andyou need a little bit of spice,
the spice.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Absolutely.
It is just like cooking reallytruly.
You know it's all about flavorand so if you kind of rule out,
you'll get more flavor witholder barrels a lot of times,
but sometimes they can go overthe hill a little bit too much
so you might want to bring insome youth, you know, into that
at that blend.
You know just like you mightneed some more salt and you know
(15:36):
scallops you made tonight, orsome more lemon juice, or you
know I did cook at therestaurant for about nine years
and I've got two cookbooks, soyou know I love flavor.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Right, although it's a little bit a larger scale when
you're doing a small batch,right, it's just a little bit
bigger scale, that's all.
Yeah, it's probably likecooking spaghetti sauce for a
regiment.
I think that's great.
(16:09):
There you go, so anyways.
So let's talk about now.
You know where you're at now.
You just came through.
It's almost like you're you'reat a rebirth point, where there
was a little bit of a what wouldyou say?
Let's call it a pause andyou're, you're back at it again.
(16:30):
You were telling me you knowyou're working hard, so you know
the direction of everything.
We got to see um, where youbottle your area of bottling and
storage to be able to do whatyou're doing.
And then also the social club,and you're expanding the social
(16:52):
club.
Maybe talk about the socialclub and the expansion.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
We're very, very fortunate to have Brian Booth
back, you know, and he's beenback for a few months, four
months or so, and he is sayinghello to all the people who are
club members.
And we ran out of space,basically, and so we are adding
another floor on the social cluband we just now we just call it
(17:20):
the Carter Club.
You know, social sounds tooformal.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
So it's just a club.
I love it Both ways.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
So we're putting in another 400 lockers and so we
can expand to people that wouldlike to be a part of our club
and get you know we do, we do,you know, special releases for
the club members.
They also get some of the, youknow, regular releases that we
do, the national releases youknow also, so they can get those
(17:54):
.
Otherwise they might get upsetwith us.
We'll try to give themeverything we can possibly give
them, you know, to make themhappy.
We love people being happy.
So the club's doing well, brianis doing well, we're expanding
and you know I'm busy down atDixie Highway.
(18:14):
We've got a the bottlingfacility there and it really
helps out having your own bottlebarrels there so you can do
samples.
We're very happy about that,having the samples that we can
go out and pull and taste.
You know I will be doing riseafter these bourbon releases.
(18:35):
We've got probably 12, you know, kind of very small batches, we
call them, you know, fivebarrel blends, uh, 12 different
distributors that they will goout to and then we'll move on to
rise and uh, we'll do maybe, uh, a release of kentucky whiskey,
(18:57):
which is kind of a fun onewhich we love.
Too many people do kentuckywhiskey yeah, I mean, there's no
doubt.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
But but like you said , uh, your ability to put out,
like you, american whiskey andthe bourbon and the rye, it's
just like.
I agree with you.
There's such a with theamerican whiskey and I don't
know, single malts, americansingle malts, those are just
(19:30):
wide open categories thathaven't been explored to the
level they are.
And it's not that a lot oftimes american whiskey gets a
name because it's being put intoa used barrel.
It's not part of the bourbon.
Uh, what would you say?
Lore of a brand new charred oakbarrel and all that.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
But if it's done right.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
it's what goes into the bottle and the taste of the
whiskey is what it should be andthose rules that bourbon have
that you don't have on Americanwhiskey sometimes can produce
some really nice flavors inAmerican whiskey that you would
never get into the bourbon.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I agree completely.
You know, and that's you know.
We have that huge proof.
Usually on the Americanwhiskeys it seems like you know
most everything is 130 and aboveto speak of.
But we've only done a couple ofhazmats and haven't seen the
light of day yet.
We have bottled them.
(20:31):
They're sitting in our vault.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yes, and well, that's good.
So the social club.
I know how close are yougetting to finishing that?
Are you getting ready?
Is that?
Is that getting there?
And then you know the whole,the distillery.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
We've got permits.
We got, uh, you know, for thethird floor.
We've got, uh, you know,plumbers there.
Uh, it's going a little slower,you know, than I'd like to see
things, but you know, um, itmight speed up here soon.
So hopefully in six monthswe'll have that totally open and
(21:15):
have 400 new members that wecan sign up.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
We do do some virtual lockers for folks that want to
get the product but don't have alocker yet yeah, well, I know
that, uh, we're, you know, we'retalking with Christy and we're
excited that, hopefully, that wecan get in as part of that.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
So we would love you to be part of that and, yes, we
just have to do that.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
And then also, what we're excited about is that the
bus tour in September, wherewe've where we've added the stop
for the bus tour and there's alot of people on there, that
there's people who know aboutold Carter.
There's people who know aboutold Carter but have not had a
lot of it.
So to be able to do this parton the bus tour, I'm very, very,
(22:08):
very excited.
Because that you know,spreading the word, uh, this
brand, people sometimes, um,what would you say they're?
It's such a a unique brand andit's not district you don't have
distribution across the wholecountry that people are just
starting to be aware of it.
(22:29):
But then how?
The probably the easiest way toget it is go to Kentucky,
because that's where you'remostly distributed, correct?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
We try to always take care of Kentucky.
That is kind of the homelandfor bourbon and we try to give
the most allocation always toKentucky.
And then you have to worryabout California and New York
because those are also verylarge markets for us.
But you know Kentucky shouldget the lion's share.
(23:03):
Usually I have some problemssometimes with the folks in
California say, you know,there's like 10 times more
people in California than thereare in Kentucky, but it's not
really taken into considerationthat a lot of people come to
Kentucky.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Right.
And then also I mean, and Iunderstand, based off your
history of what of in wine, whyyou want to.
You know why you want todistribute to California why you
want to.
You know why you want todistribute to California.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
I get that, I do live there too, sometimes about
maybe only a tenth of the timeanymore.
90% of the time is here, buteverything is running good.
In California I still have ahotel and restaurant there and
I've got a great person you knowTroy Ritchie running that, and
he is from Kentucky and he'sdone a great person Troy Ritchie
(23:56):
running that, and he is fromKentucky and he's done a great
job.
And then down in Napa I haveDan Blaine and Russell Bevan
actually taking care of thewinery and that's running great.
So they said, well, just go outto Kentucky and continue what
you're doing.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Kentucky and continue what you do.
Okay, so let's talk about yournewest batches hitting the shelf
Now.
I believe 16 is out.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Only 14 and 15 American whiskey.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Okay, and that's what I've got.
Right here, I've got 14.
I'm drinking right here, I'vegot 14.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
I'm drinking 14 myself.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Okay, so let's talk about 14 and what you know.
This is one of the now thatyou've after the pause.
This is one of the first.
Now was this ready at one point, and then you had to wait to
let it go.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yes, it was, but even then, because I had to wait
almost 18 months, it did change,not just the original barrels,
but we had to take some barrelsout and put some new ones in.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Okay, so it wasn't so it had been blended, but then
it still was in the barrel,mm-hmm.
Okay, so then you adjustedright when you came back.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Yeah you had to adjust.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
And at that point you couldn't.
You were pretty much frozen,correct.
That's why that happened.
That is correct.
Okay, well, I can't argue withthe results.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
You should pause more times for 18 months.
Yeah, this has got a lot ofthat 19 and 20-year-old in it
50% of what you're tasting isthat old.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
That's amazing.
I'm really a fan of this typeof whiskey.
Put it this way, I'm a fan ofthe caramels and the brown
sugars and the vanillas.
Those are all things that I'veloved growing up.
I didn't not like chocolate,but I didn't want but but so
(26:18):
that's why I tended to go towardand love bourbon.
So much is because of thosecaramels and the vanillas.
But now you're now the americanwhiskeys, or the cup, the
blends, the whiskey blends.
At this level, with age state,you know that where you got some
age on those, those and a lotof times what makes up american
whiskey is it starts out agingin a used barrel, correct?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
and then it's correct .
It might have been blend.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
It might have been the exact same bourbon mash bill
or whatever, but it went into aused barrel.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
It really is.
You know, uh, we do do a 99 onebourbon that went was you know
the three things that you knowdidn't distill over 160 when the
barrel below 125 went in a newcharred barrel or you know.
So, um, this probably went intoused um barrel and it probably
(27:12):
was distilled, went into thatbarrel higher than 125.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
But you know, we don't know for sure okay, well,
I'm just checking YouTube righthere and it seems to be doing
just fine.
Let's see.
Yeah, so it says my, my phone'snot rereading it properly, but
it's working.
So, anyways, all right.
So, and you know, it's funnybecause I initially would have
(27:44):
never thought that Americanwhiskey would be like this, I
mean not correct, but this issomething that it's on a level
that's above even good bourbon.
You know, you have the barrelproof.
I mean, this one is 134.3, andyou would think it would be
(28:06):
really, really hot, and thisdoesn't even….
We don't like hot.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
We don't like hot, we don't want anything hot.
We want it to be balanced.
We love balance, we love flavor.
If it's balanced, it won't behot.
If it's just hot, that's justpure alcohol and that's not good
.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Well, I always find, especially on, there's a couple
brands of bourbon that haveflavor profiles I really enjoy.
We all know the one where it'sgot a banana flavor and I like
that.
I if it's.
There are so many differentbrands that they do and they
that banana fat flavor can runthroughout.
But then you get a singlebarrel and there's so much
(28:50):
pepper on it and heat that itjust drowns out any other flavor
and sometimes that's the kindof thing that I'm not a big fan
of and I'm, you can tell, whenyou do your blends you're well
aware of the barrel, the woodand the balance of the whiskey
so that something doesn't drownout that, that sweetness that
(29:12):
you have in there.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I love balance, I love the barrel and I love
blending and, like I said, Ilove corn.
So most of the mash bills, butI like rye too.
I love rye, you know, a 95.5rye just speaks to me, but this
(29:37):
is a 99.1, and I think corn mashis sweeter than it is usually.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, a 99.1.
So it's technically cornwhiskey, right.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
It is light whiskey is what they say.
It could be corn whiskey.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
It's just whiskey and it's American.
The viscosity in the glass isinsane.
Oh yeah, I love that too.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Mouthfeel is so important and that thickness
just coats your mouth.
I think that's when you know.
Same way with wine when youhave a wine, you drink a wine.
And it's when you know it's thesame way with wine when you
have a wine.
You drink a wine and it's sothin, it's just nothing, it's
hardly there, it's all watereddown.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
I can't stand thin wine or thin whiskey, you know
yeah, it's funny because, whenyou think about it, when we were
younger and Jack Daniels wasowning the world in the 80s, it
was 80 proof and I believe itwas 90 proof earlier.
(30:43):
But they cut it back down to 80proof at one point because of
what was happening in theindustry in the 70s and that was
to me as a kid was hot and andI quite frankly now, if I drink
80 proof, jack daniels it is hasthere's.
No, that is not a hot whiskey,so it is does really come down
(31:09):
to where you're at with yourpalate.
You know, young people always,a lot of times you get and they
don't like the heat of whiskeyor they don't like the spiciness
or it's just kind of, andthat's because I believe their
taste buds haven't been had thetest of time to to, you know,
(31:30):
not wear off but wear down alittle bit, and I really believe
wearing down allows you totaste way more flavors than you
know when you're younger.
That explains why all the kidslove to drink soda and they
drink all that really sugarystuff and then when you get
older, your taste buds justdon't desire that because you
(31:51):
want something that you cantaste.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
I understand completely.
I never have soda pop.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah, no, I actually have stopped drinking even
carbonated water.
I just drink naturally flavored, you know, infused, just
regular water.
So that's what I prefer.
You know, unsweet tea, it'sjust the sugar.
But when you were a kid youknow it was like oh, soda, I'll
drink the whole liter Anyway,all right.
(32:22):
So this, this batch is right upthere.
For me Now, my favorite batchwas was batch nine, and that one
I have to look at that at that.
Well, is that?
Was that a bourbon?
Speaker 3 (32:41):
no fellas, we have.
We have a batch nine bourbon, anatural and a rye, and an
american whiskey well, myfavorite is the american whiskey
, so so I because they'll be upa little higher yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
So right now you're on 14 and 15 of the American
whiskey.
And then what are you on as faras your bourbons and rinds?
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Very small batch bourbon We've got up to I
believe it was 15, maybe 16.
The rye we got up to 15 also.
Uh, the the 12.
You know we do skip over 13usually, so it's a good idea.
(33:29):
It's just kind of a fun thing.
A lot of people don't know that.
Some people ask I've collectedalmost everything you have.
I can't find any 13s well youwon't.
If it is, it's a counterfeitthere you go.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
It's kind of like the 13th floor doesn't exist in a
hotel, exactly.
Yep, it makes sense.
Uh, all right.
So what are you like?
What are you working Exactly?
Whiskey, you have completecontrol, which direction you
want to go.
Is there anything exquisitethat you're working on going
(34:15):
forward, or is it you're justkind of going straight forward,
because I know you've come outwith a lot of different type of
things in the past?
Speaker 3 (34:22):
you know that like everybody knows about.
I love the barrels, you know,and double barreling is, you
know, know what?
I do not double oaking, whichyou could just put staves in,
and things like that, and I'veloved the barrel so much.
Now I'm using like four coopersand I will probably go to five
(34:44):
or six different coopers becausethey all impart different
flavors and we do that with thewines we make in Napa different
flavors, we do that with thewines we make in Napa, so, and
they all impart different flavorprofiles on our grapes.
So you'll maybe see some morewood Again.
(35:09):
We don't like to put a lot onthe label.
We'll tell you anything we didLike you know, this is 50%, it's
19 years old, this is whatwe're drinking right now.
We'll tell you anything we did,like you know, this is 50, it's
19 years old, this what we'redrinking right now.
We'll tell you anything youwant to know.
But you know I don't need tospill everything out on a label.
So it's nice when people do,it's fine, I'm okay with that.
Um, you know, I'd rather justsometimes keep it a little
(35:31):
closer, you know, to the vest.
You know, every time I tellsomebody, like 36-month
air-dried oak, now everybodyruns out and, you know, buys
36-month air-dried oak and Ican't get it.
So I got to keep a few thingsto myself.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean honestly as it is.
If it's American whiskey,that's enough.
It doesn't have to go into allthe different details of what
you're getting.
I mean, have you done anythingwith double barreling and French
oak?
Speaker 3 (36:08):
You know I'm such a traditionalist.
I've tried a few things and youknow I've tried a lot of
people's.
You know expressions andthere's some really good ones
out there.
The only thing I've ever donedifferent than just American oak
is basically the wine finishthat we did with the Barstown
(36:28):
Bourbon Company.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Right.
So which is the Carter whichused the?
The carter?
You know your now those.
Was that done with your winebarrels?
Speaker 3 (36:38):
was yeah, exactly so.
It was done with actuallytocalon barrels, which are, it's
, probably the most expensivegrapes you can buy in america
and probably one of the greatestvineyards in the world, and I'm
fortunate enough to be on thatvineyard.
I've been on there sinceactually 2000.
And you can't get on thevineyard today.
(37:01):
All the grapes are spoken for.
It's only a 98 acre plot, andso we've been buying fruit from
there and now we're up to 10acres of that and it's $50,000
an acre and you get three tonsan acre, and so you can do the
math how much money we spendthere on that vineyard.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah, and I mean it's well now.
The one thing I haven't done isdrank some wine with you, so
maybe in the future we can sharesome wine, because, like
anything else, I appreciatecooking, pairing, pairing with
(37:47):
cheeses.
I pretty much have done it allWines, because my wife is
allergic to tannins in the redwine.
We do a lot of Chardonnay,that's the one thing we just
we've always concentrated, but Ihave no problem with red wine,
so it always has intrigued me.
So I know that.
(38:07):
You know I've talked to you,but I've also talked to Christy
about your wines, and so youknow you do some fantastic
winemaking also.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
We've been very fortunate with the critics and
the vineyards we're on and theteam we have.
One of the things we don't dois we very lightly you know, the
sulfur ads are so low.
The sulfur ads are so low um,we really it's almost more
(38:38):
organically grown with thesulfurs that end up in there.
So a lot of times people saythey can't drink red wines and
it's usually because the uh theyhave to sulfur them so much to
keep them from actually havinguh problems.
That's when you sulfur wine iswhen you have a bacterial
problem or a bloom.
They hit it so hard with sulfurand that kills that bacteria.
(39:02):
We watch our barrels everymonth, we top them, we clean
them and we make sure there isno growth of bacteria in those
barrels and so we don't have toput the levels of sulfur in
there that cause a lot of theproblems that people have with
red wine.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
That sounds fantastic .
I understand that completely.
Winemaking, when you talk tosome people, especially people
overseas, and they have somewine making expertise and they
talk about especially when youthief barrels, about touching
the thief and putting it backand all that and that would be
(39:46):
devastating to wine to do thattype of thing.
If you were thiefing a winebarrel and you were using
something that, like you'd beefa whiskey barrel, it would cause
definitely cause problems withwine.
There's no doubt about it.
You can't afford to be puttingbacteria and you know finger
whatever.
But then whiskey is so muchdifferent than that yes yeah,
(40:07):
it's a little, a little morehardy.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
You don't have to worry about the bacteria growing
in that barrel most of the time, especially at 130 proof it's
basically killing all bacteriaas soon as it enters it.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
I mean, it is definitely alcohol is what we
use to clean things first.
Medicine oh, I was just.
You know, some people you know,it's just like people don a lot
of people don't understand themedicinal aspect of how it can
kill bacteria when you drink it.
You shouldn't be drinkingmassive amounts, but a pour
(40:45):
before bed has eliminated quitea few colds for me, so anyways,
all right.
So you've covered that.
Now the distillery itself youhave been distilling and you
have eight-year-olds your owneight-year-old that you had
contracts with.
Correct, Correct.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
And since we contracted, and when you
contract you can have your ownmash bill and one of the things
we do different than a lot ofpeople, since I like a little
higher proof I enter into thebarrel a little higher proof and
a lot of people may go in at108 or something like that.
Maybe we'll go in at 112 to 116, which I don't know if it's
(41:35):
better or worse.
Some people say it won't gointo the barrel fast enough and
age with the maceration process,but I like the flavor profiles
that we're getting out of our8-year-old and even the
4-year-old is doing really wellthat we put together.
(41:56):
We've got quite a few againmash bills.
We've even got a five grain.
That we did quite a few yearsback.
I think that was in 17 or 18.
So that may be coming to themarket, but it's been hard not
having your own place and havingthe barrels there.
So once the barrels come over Ican sample those again and even
(42:19):
the um, you know, kind ofkentucky straight.
We bought 100 barrels of that.
It was 12 years old back in 1718 when we bought those, so
they're quite old now.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yeah, so are you distilling yourself now?
Speaker 3 (42:40):
Yeah, we distill also , we have to distill.
I have two DSPs, so twodifferent locations, two
different companies, twodifferent ownerships.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Yes, and you have to distill Now that stuff there
that you're distilling yourself.
Are you thinking of increasinga little production on that, or
are you basically doing the samething and then that's just
going to be kind of one-off,kind of things?
Speaker 3 (43:07):
It's a great way to experiment and try different
mash bills, different things youwant to do, so maybe someday
we'll be able to do a little bitmore.
But when you have great friendswith great distilleries, you
probably should really supportthem.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
I get it.
Yes, I can understand that.
Yeah, because I understand theaspect of contract distilling.
You, you, you did the specialblend at Bardstown, what they do
there with different brands andwhat they're doing there, plus
the other places.
I agree with you 100 percent.
It's, it's, it's.
(43:47):
They have all the equipment, Imean, and then the invested
hundreds of millions of dollarsinto these facilities.
So you know, hopefully we cankeep them all going you know I
was amazed, David Mandel, atwhat is it Kentucky?
Oh, I got to remember.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Whiskey House.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Whiskey.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
House of Kentucky right.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
That's what it's called.
I got to remember.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Whiskey House.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Whiskey House of Kentucky right, that's what it's
called Down there.
They just contracted to buildthose six state-of-the-art
rickhouses where the way it'sset up is designed for ultimate
control of airflow and thematuration and what you get in
(44:31):
different sections of therickhouse which I was just
reading about, that the companythat's building the rickhouse is
.
They've been advancing thetechnology and they were really
happy that these are going to bethe first of the kind of their
research of building.
For, you know, perfectingmaturation, you know everybody
when you hear what would you?
(44:53):
Rapid aging?
It's such a negative term.
So when you think about it it'slike a place like Buffalo Trace
.
They technically don't sayanything about what they do as
far as heating and cooling theirrickhouses, which some people
would call rapid aging correct.
But they just, you know,there's no such thing as making
a year go faster.
(45:13):
So if they're doing aseven-year or a six-year or
eight-year or whatever they'redoing, it's eight years and
there's a reason why some oftheir stuff tastes pretty damn
good because of the fact thathow they heat those rickhouses
it's so interesting, isn't it?
It is absolutely.
You know, my hat's off to themso, anyways, all right, so, and
(45:36):
my hat's off to you as far asblending and, uh, making some
fantastic whiskey.
I mean I enjoy your brand andcovet every bottle that I get.
I mean I it's when, uh, if I'vehad a hard day and I want to
feel better, I'll have a pour ofOld Carter and it just it
(45:56):
brings especially getting toknow you and Christy and
everything and the whole part ofyour brand and what you've done
and how much you care.
I mean, really it comes down tocaring and we definitely look
forward to going forward withwhat you know.
Now that you're putting outmore whiskey.
It's pretty damn exciting.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
Thank you for the support and thank you for having
me on.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
You know, yeah, I 100 percent.
I'm going to after, after we'redone, I'm just going to pinch
myself after after we're done,I'm just gonna pinch myself.
It's like mark, uh, reallyseriously, you're, you're just
everything that you do.
You're a super caring humanbeing.
I like, even just being wherewe've been, you can just tell,
(46:43):
um, you you love people.
You you were an in.
Obviously you're an innkeeper.
Yeah, you know.
And what you're doing andeverything that you do you care
about.
And that's why that I get intobourbon is for people like
yourself and Christy and all thepeople that I meet throughout,
because not only are you real,but you're the type of people
that I consistently meet and youknow, consider just, it's
(47:07):
almost like you guys becomefamily.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
Great community and you know I'm so happy to be part
of it and all the people I metin the community.
It's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yeah, definitely.
And then you produce somethinglike this, so I'm sure your time
gets pulled everywhere all thetime, right, I'm Pretty busy, so
do you have any places oranything you're doing coming up?
You know where you're going tobe out and about.
You know any festivals you guysare going to or anything like
that.
I like going to all thedifferent festivals.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
I don't get to pour at any of them because I don't
really have anything to pour,but I love meeting everybody and
tasting everybody's product andI usually will have some
whiskey in the trunk of my car.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Just kidding, just kidding, he's just kidding.
So what on the 14,?
What is your favorite profileof what you get off of this?
Speaker 3 (48:14):
A lot of marshmallow.
I get this like kind of eventhat roasted marshmallow over a
fire a little bit, you know.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
With a little bit of that char, Maybe some like
glazed cream brulee.
You know topping all the time.
When I smell this one, you knowit's dark, rich, roasted, like
candy.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Well, it sure does a drink at 134.3.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
I mean it's dangerously smooth, as we say.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yes, and the hug on this is just fantastic.
It warms your insides so it'skind of like roasting
marshmallows the taste ofmarshmallow, of a roasted
marshmallow, and the heat of thefire is in your stomach,
warming you all together at once.
(49:05):
But you know, it's not fiery,it's just nice and warm going
down.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
The finish is just pure creme brulee.
You know it's got a great.
You know coating, you knowgreat mouthfeel, viscosity and
that sweetness at the end.
It's what we're looking for.
This is, you know.
The 15 is a little different.
You know my taste.
I kept tasting, when I wasblending it, the three and the
four American whiskey batches,because people seem to like
(49:41):
those quite a bit, and so, youknow, usually there's always one
that's a little brighter.
I think this one's a littlebrighter than the 15.
You know a little higher notes,a hair maybe a little more
aromatics of fruit.
You may even get some fruitnotes on this.
(50:02):
The 15's a little darker, youknow, maybe a little richer Not
as sweet.
Yes, it's a little bit sweeter.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
That's what I remember off the 15.
The 15 was fantastic too, butit wasn't as sweet.
I'm going to go towards thatmore often than not is
19-year-old juice.
There you go, that picks up thatlittle bit of a.
(50:33):
It's almost like a.
You know, there's an aspect ofsome older whiskeys that taste
like the Dustys that are outthere.
Like that, when you havesomething that's been in a
bottle for 20, 30, 40 years,they all have a consistent taste
to them.
But if it's been in the barrelthat long, some some pick it up
(50:55):
the and others others don't haveas much, but that flavor is
there and the.
A lot of times when it's beenin the bottle it that that dusty
flavor kind of mixes all otherdusties together.
You know, like you, just it'sflavor, whereas when you get it
out of the barrel it seems to bethere, but not as overwhelming
(51:17):
when you get older.
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (51:21):
You know, not all barrels are great when they get
old.
I like the American whiskeysbecause they went into a used
barrel.
A seasoned barrel is what Iwould say to a used barrel.
A seasoned barrel is what Iwould say.
And you know they still alwaysseem to have that.
You know you're drinking olderwhiskey, which I think is cool.
(51:41):
You taste 14 and 15, you cansay this has got to be some old
whiskey.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Right.
What would be interesting is,in like 20 years and you kept a
bottle and then drank it at thatpoint, what it would do
Wouldn't that be interesting.
Yes, I don't know Both of us.
I can't wait.
Yeah, no, let's not speed it upthat fast.
But I will say that you knowthat's something that some
(52:10):
people don't.
But when it's in, even when theseal's done, the whiskey
changes in the bottle.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
I mean it just does it really does it really does,
and I don't.
You know people, some peopledon't believe that, but I've had
some great whiskeys that haveand you know even scotches that
have been sealed for 40 yearsand you pop them and they, they
will actually in some wayssometimes be like liqueurs and
other times they need.
(52:37):
Sometimes they need some airtoo.
You know, and you know, myfavorite story is telling the
you know, kind of old overhauls,1942.
Uh, bottle up and I bought sixof and popped it the first time
and poured it and we tasted andsaid, well, this isn't any good
at all, even though I only paid$100 for this.
(53:00):
And I bought six of them.
And then I put the cork on itand, you know, about a week
later went back and said I'lltry something to see if it
changed.
I go, oh my God, this isamazing.
A week later, just needed alittle air, poured it in a glass
, showed it to someone and theygo what is this?
Speaker 1 (53:19):
I said it's the same thing you drank last week and
it's wonderful, yeah, and we didthe first Dusty I ever had
Super Nash had picked up.
And he picked it up and it wasan old Carter from 19,.
Not an old Carter, but an oldTaylor from 1969.
And that old Taylor, when weopened it that night, I swear to
(53:42):
God, he opened it and itsmelled like my grandma's attic
and because it was a Dusty, weall had a pour and sat around
talking about how awesome it wasand I thought, am I gonna die?
So we drank it that night and Ijust the next morning.
(54:03):
We kind of all all laughed alittle bit and whatever.
And that was like the firstnight of k Bourbon Festival,
which was a Saturday.
By that next Friday that bottleturned into the best caramel
bomb bourbon I think I've evertasted.
It was so caramel, all that hadgone away.
All that mustiness or whateverwas gone.
(54:25):
It's just so unique.
On how you know the thing, thetelltale of a bad bourbon is if
it gets cloudy.
You don't want cloudiness on onsomething, but if it's, if it's
crystal clear, like that I'vejust had.
So you know some, but you, yougot to open them sometimes and
let them breathe, like you saidit's unbelievable, you know,
just like wine.
Speaker 3 (54:44):
You know, a lot of times it's older, let it breathe
a little bit.
And you know, sometimes, evenif it's new, let it breathe a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
Oh yeah, even this bottle to the batch nine
American whiskey.
Every time I drink this batchnine, it gets caramelier and
better each time.
So I think this has been open.
It was Christmas, not last, soit's a year and a half that's
been open.
I mean, this is by far one ofmy favorite with the batch nine.
(55:12):
American is one of my favoriteof of all time.
So I'm not drinking it, notdrinking a pour a night or
anything, but every once in awhile.
So, and then I really thinkyou're 14, let's see I think
that one one is that below 66,so one 23 yeah, 66.4, so it's
(55:42):
132.8, and then this one is one,it's a higher 134.3, so they're
close, but that one, this oneI'm batch 14 is a winner for me.
You've done it again, thank you.
So all right, um, let's, let'send the audio.
Speaker 3 (56:02):
Thank you okay thank you mark, for coming thank you I
appreciate it being on and um,I'll see you out there somewhere
in Kentucky, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
Yeah, actually, who knows, you might see me this
next weekend because I'm comingdown there.
I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm just supposedly supposed tobe there Friday, Saturday and
Sunday.
You know I will for sure.
Speaker 3 (56:26):
All right, thank you.
Speaker 1 (56:26):
Thanks for joining us .
All right, bye-bye, bye, bye,christy, bye us, bye-bye, bye,
christy.
All right, everybody, we're theScotchy Bourbon Boys
wwwscotchybourbonboyscom for allthings Scotchy Bourbon Boys,
and check us out on Facebook,youtube, instagram and X, along
with all the audio podcasts ofApple iHeart and Spotify.
(56:49):
Remember, make sure let's see.
Do I even know what I'm doinghere?
All right,
Middle West Spirits was founded in 2008, focusing on
elevating the distinct flavorsof the Ohio River Valley.
Their spirits honor their rootsand reflect their originality
as makers, their integrity asproducers, and their the start
to the bottle, to your glass,with unique weeded and rye
(00:28):
bourbons, and also rye and wheatwhiskeys.
The Michelon brand is easy tosip.
It might be a grain-to-glassexperience, but I like to think
of it as uncut and unfilteredfrom their family to yours.
We'll be right back.
(00:52):
We're the.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Scotch and Baron boys Raising some hell and making
some noise.
Yeah, we're the Scotch andBaron boys.
(01:30):
We're here to have fun and openthe door.
We're here to have fun, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
All right, welcome back to another podcast of the
Scotchy Bourbon Boys.
All right, I stopped thesharing but let's get.
I got to get out of this screen.
That was I.
Normally do that better therewe go.
All right.
(02:18):
So let's go over here and hitzoom.
Did that do it?
Nope, somehow I got to get backto my zoom screen.
Let's see there, there, oh,we're little.
That's funny.
(02:39):
Oh wow, technical difficultiesright over it.
Okay, come on.
Now it's completely gone.
All right, let's try this onemore time Zoom.
So I must have dumped you overthere.
All right, there we go.
Got that working now.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
There you are.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
So, after the technical difficulties right off
the bat, I don't know, let'ssee.
All right, let's reload this.
I'm going to reload theFacebook because it looks like
that paused.
Yep, there we go.
We're working, working again.
So we have Mark Carter joiningus today, and I'm Tiny from the
(03:29):
Scotchy Bourbon Boys and Markwelcome to the podcast.
That's sometimes, this is whathappens to us, and I'm Tiny from
the Scotchy Bourbon Boys andMark welcome to the podcast.
So there we go, All right.
Sorry about that.
(03:50):
Good Okay, so say hi toeverybody, mark.
Oh, you know, tiny.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I know you as Jeff, that's fine.
Most people know you as Tiny.
It's great to be here andeverybody else out there that's
watching welcome, and we'regoing to be tasting a little bit
of old Carter.
I guess tonight is what Jeffsaid.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yes, yes for sure, and look forward to that
immensely.
Yes, for sure, and look forwardto that immensely.
You know one of the things youknow we've talked a couple of
times in the past.
We've been at the old CarterSocial Club with you and then
been at a bunch of differentplaces with you and Christy.
(04:39):
That initially, I can tell youthat when I knew Christy for a
while she's fantastic and when Ifound out at Kentucky Bourbon
Festival a couple of years agothat you, that she was a part of
what you know of old Carter toto some extent, and I was super,
(05:03):
super excited because oldCarter had already been
established as probably one ofmy favorite bourbons that I had
ever tried.
So you know, then, to now get toknow you a little bit and spend
time and know what kind of aperson you are, one of the
things that you know I'd likeyou to do is just tell everybody
(05:25):
how you got into this.
You know, because it's afascinating story.
Me and you have talked about ita couple of times, but it's not
just always been there, butjust you know what.
You know what led to what.
Well, you know a lot of peoplehave heard the story before, I'm
sure.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Well, you know a lot of people have heard the story
before, I'm sure, but I'm veryfortunate and a lot of people
have helped me along the way.
But I was a builder and I builta big house and that's kind of
crazy and turned it into an inn.
I kind of took off and I builta hotel and started buying wine
(06:06):
for the restaurant that westarted in the hotel and I got
involved with wine to the pointthat it was time for me to make
some wine.
So I started making wine in 98and finally bought a winery down
in Napa Valley in 06.
In 06, we were not making a lotof money at the winery.
We had quite a bit of overhead.
In 2006, we were not making alot of money at the winery, we
(06:27):
had quite a bit of overhead andso we were looking for Custom
Crush clients to fill up ourcapacity there on Tubbs Lane in
Calistoga and I talked to all myfriends that were innkeepers
and said well, you know I canmake wine for you because I have
lots of capacity a little redwine, white wine and only one
person out of the 400 inns inAmerica that I was associated
(06:50):
with wanted to actually makesome wine.
And I was here in Kentucky andhis name was Dixon Dedman and
I'll never forget and said Dixon, you know I'll do anything for
your family, we'll make somewine for you, but I don't think
that's what we should be doing.
We should probably bring backyour whiskey brand.
(07:12):
Your dad told me you used tomake whiskey and so I said you
know, why don't we do thatinstead?
And, dixon, he said we can dothat.
And I said, dixon, we can doanything we set our minds to,
and so I got a little money andI got a talented staff around me
and we can make this happen.
So we started that Kentucky Owlback in 2000 and the idea was
(07:37):
in 11, bought our barrels in 12,released our first bourbon in
2014 and that kind of took off.
And, um, we were fortunateenough and uh the uh.
I loved the business and didn'twant to really sell, but it was
good for dixon.
We sold the business and westarted old carter.
(07:59):
The next day and that was in2017 we got money from Stoli,
bought the brand and we startedactually buying barrels in 17
and distilling in 17 and we madeour first product and we turned
it out in 2018, and so oldCarter was, you know, was born
(08:22):
and, and so been working at itever since.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So it's kind of like then you've been working at it
and one of the things that youdon't do is you basically make
sure that the whiskey that youput out is aged enough, that the
whiskey that you put out isaged enough.
So, although you don't put outan age statement on your
bourbons and your whiskeys thelowest it is is seven years,
(08:54):
correct?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
It's correct.
We've never done anything, lessthan seven years.
And as far as I know, I don'tthink we've done anything
because it's all barrel prooftoo that we have never done
anything underneath 104 proof.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
So yeah.
So now you've got nothing, youknow nothing.
It's all older than seven yearsand it's barrel proof.
So you're dealing in a high-endmarket now, just because you
haven't put something out that'syounger than seven years
(09:31):
doesn't mean that you're notputting stuff older than seven
years either, correct?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
That's correct.
We've got stuff that was 27years old, single barrels that
were 27.
We got 16 year old.
Most of the single barrels thathave age statements, you know
are for the club at this pointbecause you know there's just
not enough of those to go around.
(09:58):
So it was only, you know,dedicated to the club at this
point.
Most of the product I haveright now is 10 years or older
these days and even thedistillate we made over at
Castle Key is now eight yearsold and we have never used that
(10:19):
yet.
So we'll keep aging the product.
But really a good sweet spotfor us, I think.
You know, as I'm blending Ilove 7 to 9 for a base product,
but you know I love to throw insome nice older barrels too.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So, okay, walk me through this because this is an
education for me.
I understand the blend.
So if you're throwing in 11 and12, how do you determine?
So are you emptying thosebarrels into like a stainless
steel tub or what you know tostop the aging and then using a
(10:58):
part of it for this batch andthen a part of it for the next
batch, or do you use the wholebarrel?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Use the whole barrel.
You know we taste through.
I have 88 barrels sitting on atable in my lab right now and I
had tasted through every one ofthose and I have graded those
and I have tasting notes on allof those, graded those and I
(11:28):
have tasting notes on all ofthose and even those that.
These are the very smallbatches that I'm working on
right now for each one of thedistributors and they are 11
years.
Most of those are 11 years oldand some of those have two to
three year been sitting in.
Actual, the double barrelingthat we do, which is maybe a
(11:48):
good portion of that, is doublebarreled so you're
proportionately blending, so youhave.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
So you're, you have to proportionately blend so that
it equals up to a barrel,correct I mean?
So you're at a proportion ofone, just two bottles of samples
equals two barrels.
I mean, how does that exactly?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
I'll give you.
You know, I know how much is ina barrel.
We weigh barrels, we know howmuch is in each barrel, how much
liquid is in there by takingout the barrel weight.
And you know it may be if it's10 years old.
We're lucky if we really havehalf of the barrel left.
You know, because we lose 5% ayear, mostly on an average.
(12:38):
So if you started, you know 53gallons, you have 27 roughly.
You know 53 gallons, you have27, roughly gallons.
And so I'm blending with theright percentages of each barrel
.
So I know what they're tastinglike.
But I can pick the best.
You know, if I'm doing afive-barrel blend, which is what
most of these are right now,I'll put together five barrels
(13:03):
and maybe not all of them, eventhough they're the greatest of
my entire lineup, my favoritebarrels, I put them together.
They may not actually work, andthen I'm pulling things out,
tasting things and puttingthings in until I'm happy with
the blend that I have.
And it really kind of has.
(13:24):
You know, our stamp on it, theold Carter stamp on it, which is
that deep, rich.
You know kind of aromatics thatyou get with what we have and
you know a long finish.
Those are the things you knowthat we're looking for in every
batch.
We do turn out, and we won'tturn anything out unless I
(13:48):
really you know, kind of feelreally confident that this is
one of the great products thatwe we've turned out okay.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
So, like, when you do your batch, you initially have
a starting point and that wouldbe those five barrels, but
you're thinking, well, thisbarrel might have been too much,
so you pull that barrel andsubstitute it with a different
barrel.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
That is correct.
You know it might be too muchwood.
Pull it out, Maybe put aneutral in Things like that.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
And if anybody you know that's one thing that you
know Ed, who said hi to you.
He came down for a podcast andit was pretty cool because he
brought all of his samples.
He brought 13 of the samples hewas going to make his second
batch with and he helped, hewent through it with me to blend
those samples, how he wentabout and how he did it.
(14:35):
And one of the things that hehad in those samples was a
really hot.
He had a super hot barrel andhe had another one that was
super bland and he basicallysaid that those barrels are
important when blending becausesometimes you might love the
(14:57):
blend but it's too hot and sowhen you substitute into the the
the blander barrel, all of asudden it gives you where you
want to go.
Or if the blend's too bland andyou need a little bit of spice,
the spice.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Absolutely.
It is just like cooking reallytruly.
You know it's all about flavorand so if you kind of rule out,
you'll get more flavor witholder barrels a lot of times,
but sometimes they can go overthe hill a little bit too much
so you might want to bring insome youth, you know, into that
at that blend.
You know just like you mightneed some more salt and you know
(15:36):
scallops you made tonight, orsome more lemon juice, or you
know I did cook at therestaurant for about nine years
and I've got two cookbooks, soyou know I love flavor.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Right, although it's a little bit a larger scale when
you're doing a small batch,right, it's just a little bit
bigger scale, that's all.
Yeah, it's probably likecooking spaghetti sauce for a
regiment.
I think that's great.
(16:09):
There you go, so anyways.
So let's talk about now.
You know where you're at now.
You just came through.
It's almost like you're you'reat a rebirth point, where there
was a little bit of a what wouldyou say?
Let's call it a pause andyou're, you're back at it again.
(16:30):
You were telling me you knowyou're working hard, so you know
the direction of everything.
We got to see um, where youbottle your area of bottling and
storage to be able to do whatyou're doing.
And then also the social club,and you're expanding the social
(16:52):
club.
Maybe talk about the socialclub and the expansion.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
We're very, very fortunate to have Brian Booth
back, you know, and he's beenback for a few months, four
months or so, and he is sayinghello to all the people who are
club members.
And we ran out of space,basically, and so we are adding
another floor on the social cluband we just now we just call it
(17:20):
the Carter Club.
You know, social sounds tooformal.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
So it's just a club.
I love it Both ways.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
So we're putting in another 400 lockers and so we
can expand to people that wouldlike to be a part of our club
and get you know we do, we do,you know, special releases for
the club members.
They also get some of the, youknow, regular releases that we
do, the national releases youknow also, so they can get those
(17:54):
.
Otherwise they might get upsetwith us.
We'll try to give themeverything we can possibly give
them, you know, to make themhappy.
We love people being happy.
So the club's doing well, brianis doing well, we're expanding
and you know I'm busy down atDixie Highway.
(18:14):
We've got a the bottlingfacility there and it really
helps out having your own bottlebarrels there so you can do
samples.
We're very happy about that,having the samples that we can
go out and pull and taste.
You know I will be doing riseafter these bourbon releases.
(18:35):
We've got probably 12, you know, kind of very small batches, we
call them, you know, fivebarrel blends, uh, 12 different
distributors that they will goout to and then we'll move on to
rise and uh, we'll do maybe, uh, a release of kentucky whiskey,
(18:57):
which is kind of a fun onewhich we love.
Too many people do kentuckywhiskey yeah, I mean, there's no
doubt.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
But but like you said , uh, your ability to put out,
like you, american whiskey andthe bourbon and the rye, it's
just like.
I agree with you.
There's such a with theamerican whiskey and I don't
know, single malts, americansingle malts, those are just
(19:30):
wide open categories thathaven't been explored to the
level they are.
And it's not that a lot oftimes american whiskey gets a
name because it's being put intoa used barrel.
It's not part of the bourbon.
Uh, what would you say?
Lore of a brand new charred oakbarrel and all that.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
But if it's done right.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
it's what goes into the bottle and the taste of the
whiskey is what it should be andthose rules that bourbon have
that you don't have on Americanwhiskey sometimes can produce
some really nice flavors inAmerican whiskey that you would
never get into the bourbon.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I agree completely.
You know, and that's you know.
We have that huge proof.
Usually on the Americanwhiskeys it seems like you know
most everything is 130 and aboveto speak of.
But we've only done a couple ofhazmats and haven't seen the
light of day yet.
We have bottled them.
(20:31):
They're sitting in our vault.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yes, and well, that's good.
So the social club.
I know how close are yougetting to finishing that?
Are you getting ready?
Is that?
Is that getting there?
And then you know the whole,the distillery.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
We've got permits.
We got, uh, you know, for thethird floor.
We've got, uh, you know,plumbers there.
Uh, it's going a little slower,you know, than I'd like to see
things, but you know, um, itmight speed up here soon.
So hopefully in six monthswe'll have that totally open and
(21:15):
have 400 new members that wecan sign up.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
We do do some virtual lockers for folks that want to
get the product but don't have alocker yet yeah, well, I know
that, uh, we're, you know, we'retalking with Christy and we're
excited that, hopefully, that wecan get in as part of that.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
So we would love you to be part of that and, yes, we
just have to do that.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
And then also, what we're excited about is that the
bus tour in September, wherewe've where we've added the stop
for the bus tour and there's alot of people on there, that
there's people who know aboutold Carter.
There's people who know aboutold Carter but have not had a
lot of it.
So to be able to do this parton the bus tour, I'm very, very,
(22:08):
very excited.
Because that you know,spreading the word, uh, this
brand, people sometimes, um,what would you say they're?
It's such a a unique brand andit's not district you don't have
distribution across the wholecountry that people are just
starting to be aware of it.
(22:29):
But then how?
The probably the easiest way toget it is go to Kentucky,
because that's where you'remostly distributed, correct?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
We try to always take care of Kentucky.
That is kind of the homelandfor bourbon and we try to give
the most allocation always toKentucky.
And then you have to worryabout California and New York
because those are also verylarge markets for us.
But you know Kentucky shouldget the lion's share.
(23:03):
Usually I have some problemssometimes with the folks in
California say, you know,there's like 10 times more
people in California than thereare in Kentucky, but it's not
really taken into considerationthat a lot of people come to
Kentucky.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Right.
And then also I mean, and Iunderstand, based off your
history of what of in wine, whyyou want to.
You know why you want todistribute to California why you
want to.
You know why you want todistribute to California.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
I get that, I do live there too, sometimes about
maybe only a tenth of the timeanymore.
90% of the time is here, buteverything is running good.
In California I still have ahotel and restaurant there and
I've got a great person you knowTroy Ritchie running that, and
he is from Kentucky and he'sdone a great person Troy Ritchie
(23:56):
running that, and he is fromKentucky and he's done a great
job.
And then down in Napa I haveDan Blaine and Russell Bevan
actually taking care of thewinery and that's running great.
So they said, well, just go outto Kentucky and continue what
you're doing.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Kentucky and continue what you do.
Okay, so let's talk about yournewest batches hitting the shelf
Now.
I believe 16 is out.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Only 14 and 15 American whiskey.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Okay, and that's what I've got.
Right here, I've got 14.
I'm drinking right here, I'vegot 14.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
I'm drinking 14 myself.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Okay, so let's talk about 14 and what you know.
This is one of the now thatyou've after the pause.
This is one of the first.
Now was this ready at one point, and then you had to wait to
let it go.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yes, it was, but even then, because I had to wait
almost 18 months, it did change,not just the original barrels,
but we had to take some barrelsout and put some new ones in.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Okay, so it wasn't so it had been blended, but then
it still was in the barrel,mm-hmm.
Okay, so then you adjustedright when you came back.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Yeah you had to adjust.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
And at that point you couldn't.
You were pretty much frozen,correct.
That's why that happened.
That is correct.
Okay, well, I can't argue withthe results.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
You should pause more times for 18 months.
Yeah, this has got a lot ofthat 19 and 20-year-old in it
50% of what you're tasting isthat old.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
That's amazing.
I'm really a fan of this typeof whiskey.
Put it this way, I'm a fan ofthe caramels and the brown
sugars and the vanillas.
Those are all things that I'veloved growing up.
I didn't not like chocolate,but I didn't want but but so
(26:18):
that's why I tended to go towardand love bourbon.
So much is because of thosecaramels and the vanillas.
But now you're now the americanwhiskeys, or the cup, the
blends, the whiskey blends.
At this level, with age state,you know that where you got some
age on those, those and a lotof times what makes up american
whiskey is it starts out agingin a used barrel, correct?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
and then it's correct .
It might have been blend.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
It might have been the exact same bourbon mash bill
or whatever, but it went into aused barrel.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
It really is.
You know, uh, we do do a 99 onebourbon that went was you know
the three things that you knowdidn't distill over 160 when the
barrel below 125 went in a newcharred barrel or you know.
So, um, this probably went intoused um barrel and it probably
(27:12):
was distilled, went into thatbarrel higher than 125.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
But you know, we don't know for sure okay, well,
I'm just checking YouTube righthere and it seems to be doing
just fine.
Let's see.
Yeah, so it says my, my phone'snot rereading it properly, but
it's working.
So, anyways, all right.
So, and you know, it's funnybecause I initially would have
(27:44):
never thought that Americanwhiskey would be like this, I
mean not correct, but this issomething that it's on a level
that's above even good bourbon.
You know, you have the barrelproof.
I mean, this one is 134.3, andyou would think it would be
(28:06):
really, really hot, and thisdoesn't even….
We don't like hot.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
We don't like hot, we don't want anything hot.
We want it to be balanced.
We love balance, we love flavor.
If it's balanced, it won't behot.
If it's just hot, that's justpure alcohol and that's not good
.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Well, I always find, especially on, there's a couple
brands of bourbon that haveflavor profiles I really enjoy.
We all know the one where it'sgot a banana flavor and I like
that.
I if it's.
There are so many differentbrands that they do and they
that banana fat flavor can runthroughout.
But then you get a singlebarrel and there's so much
(28:50):
pepper on it and heat that itjust drowns out any other flavor
and sometimes that's the kindof thing that I'm not a big fan
of and I'm, you can tell, whenyou do your blends you're well
aware of the barrel, the woodand the balance of the whiskey
so that something doesn't drownout that, that sweetness that
(29:12):
you have in there.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I love balance, I love the barrel and I love
blending and, like I said, Ilove corn.
So most of the mash bills, butI like rye too.
I love rye, you know, a 95.5rye just speaks to me, but this
(29:37):
is a 99.1, and I think corn mashis sweeter than it is usually.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, a 99.1.
So it's technically cornwhiskey, right.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
It is light whiskey is what they say.
It could be corn whiskey.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
It's just whiskey and it's American.
The viscosity in the glass isinsane.
Oh yeah, I love that too.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Mouthfeel is so important and that thickness
just coats your mouth.
I think that's when you know.
Same way with wine when youhave a wine, you drink a wine.
And it's when you know it's thesame way with wine when you
have a wine.
You drink a wine and it's sothin, it's just nothing, it's
hardly there, it's all watereddown.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
I can't stand thin wine or thin whiskey, you know
yeah, it's funny because, whenyou think about it, when we were
younger and Jack Daniels wasowning the world in the 80s, it
was 80 proof and I believe itwas 90 proof earlier.
(30:43):
But they cut it back down to 80proof at one point because of
what was happening in theindustry in the 70s and that was
to me as a kid was hot and andI quite frankly now, if I drink
80 proof, jack daniels it is hasthere's.
No, that is not a hot whiskey,so it is does really come down
(31:09):
to where you're at with yourpalate.
You know, young people always,a lot of times you get and they
don't like the heat of whiskeyor they don't like the spiciness
or it's just kind of, andthat's because I believe their
taste buds haven't been had thetest of time to to, you know,
(31:30):
not wear off but wear down alittle bit, and I really believe
wearing down allows you totaste way more flavors than you
know when you're younger.
That explains why all the kidslove to drink soda and they
drink all that really sugarystuff and then when you get
older, your taste buds justdon't desire that because you
(31:51):
want something that you cantaste.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
I understand completely.
I never have soda pop.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah, no, I actually have stopped drinking even
carbonated water.
I just drink naturally flavored, you know, infused, just
regular water.
So that's what I prefer.
You know, unsweet tea, it'sjust the sugar.
But when you were a kid youknow it was like oh, soda, I'll
drink the whole liter Anyway,all right.
(32:22):
So this, this batch is right upthere.
For me Now, my favorite batchwas was batch nine, and that one
I have to look at that at that.
Well, is that?
Was that a bourbon?
Speaker 3 (32:41):
no fellas, we have.
We have a batch nine bourbon, anatural and a rye, and an
american whiskey well, myfavorite is the american whiskey
, so so I because they'll be upa little higher yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
So right now you're on 14 and 15 of the American
whiskey.
And then what are you on as faras your bourbons and rinds?
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Very small batch bourbon We've got up to I
believe it was 15, maybe 16.
The rye we got up to 15 also.
Uh, the the 12.
You know we do skip over 13usually, so it's a good idea.
(33:29):
It's just kind of a fun thing.
A lot of people don't know that.
Some people ask I've collectedalmost everything you have.
I can't find any 13s well youwon't.
If it is, it's a counterfeitthere you go.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
It's kind of like the 13th floor doesn't exist in a
hotel, exactly.
Yep, it makes sense.
Uh, all right.
So what are you like?
What are you working Exactly?
Whiskey, you have completecontrol, which direction you
want to go.
Is there anything exquisitethat you're working on going
(34:15):
forward, or is it you're justkind of going straight forward,
because I know you've come outwith a lot of different type of
things in the past?
Speaker 3 (34:22):
you know that like everybody knows about.
I love the barrels, you know,and double barreling is, you
know, know what?
I do not double oaking, whichyou could just put staves in,
and things like that, and I'veloved the barrel so much.
Now I'm using like four coopersand I will probably go to five
(34:44):
or six different coopers becausethey all impart different
flavors and we do that with thewines we make in Napa different
flavors, we do that with thewines we make in Napa, so, and
they all impart different flavorprofiles on our grapes.
So you'll maybe see some morewood Again.
(35:09):
We don't like to put a lot onthe label.
We'll tell you anything we didLike you know, this is 50%, it's
19 years old, this is whatwe're drinking right now.
We'll tell you anything we did,like you know, this is 50, it's
19 years old, this what we'redrinking right now.
We'll tell you anything youwant to know.
But you know I don't need tospill everything out on a label.
So it's nice when people do,it's fine, I'm okay with that.
Um, you know, I'd rather justsometimes keep it a little
(35:31):
closer, you know, to the vest.
You know, every time I tellsomebody, like 36-month
air-dried oak, now everybodyruns out and, you know, buys
36-month air-dried oak and Ican't get it.
So I got to keep a few thingsto myself.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean honestly as it is.
If it's American whiskey,that's enough.
It doesn't have to go into allthe different details of what
you're getting.
I mean, have you done anythingwith double barreling and French
oak?
Speaker 3 (36:08):
You know I'm such a traditionalist.
I've tried a few things and youknow I've tried a lot of
people's.
You know expressions andthere's some really good ones
out there.
The only thing I've ever donedifferent than just American oak
is basically the wine finishthat we did with the Barstown
(36:28):
Bourbon Company.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Right.
So which is the Carter whichused the?
The carter?
You know your now those.
Was that done with your winebarrels?
Speaker 3 (36:38):
was yeah, exactly so.
It was done with actuallytocalon barrels, which are, it's
, probably the most expensivegrapes you can buy in america
and probably one of the greatestvineyards in the world, and I'm
fortunate enough to be on thatvineyard.
I've been on there sinceactually 2000.
And you can't get on thevineyard today.
(37:01):
All the grapes are spoken for.
It's only a 98 acre plot, andso we've been buying fruit from
there and now we're up to 10acres of that and it's $50,000
an acre and you get three tonsan acre, and so you can do the
math how much money we spendthere on that vineyard.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah, and I mean it's well now.
The one thing I haven't done isdrank some wine with you, so
maybe in the future we can sharesome wine, because, like
anything else, I appreciatecooking, pairing, pairing with
(37:47):
cheeses.
I pretty much have done it allWines, because my wife is
allergic to tannins in the redwine.
We do a lot of Chardonnay,that's the one thing we just
we've always concentrated, but Ihave no problem with red wine,
so it always has intrigued me.
So I know that.
(38:07):
You know I've talked to you,but I've also talked to Christy
about your wines, and so youknow you do some fantastic
winemaking also.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
We've been very fortunate with the critics and
the vineyards we're on and theteam we have.
One of the things we don't dois we very lightly you know, the
sulfur ads are so low.
The sulfur ads are so low um,we really it's almost more
(38:38):
organically grown with thesulfurs that end up in there.
So a lot of times people saythey can't drink red wines and
it's usually because the uh theyhave to sulfur them so much to
keep them from actually havinguh problems.
That's when you sulfur wine iswhen you have a bacterial
problem or a bloom.
They hit it so hard with sulfurand that kills that bacteria.
(39:02):
We watch our barrels everymonth, we top them, we clean
them and we make sure there isno growth of bacteria in those
barrels and so we don't have toput the levels of sulfur in
there that cause a lot of theproblems that people have with
red wine.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
That sounds fantastic .
I understand that completely.
Winemaking, when you talk tosome people, especially people
overseas, and they have somewine making expertise and they
talk about especially when youthief barrels, about touching
the thief and putting it backand all that and that would be
(39:46):
devastating to wine to do thattype of thing.
If you were thiefing a winebarrel and you were using
something that, like you'd beefa whiskey barrel, it would cause
definitely cause problems withwine.
There's no doubt about it.
You can't afford to be puttingbacteria and you know finger
whatever.
But then whiskey is so muchdifferent than that yes yeah,
(40:07):
it's a little, a little morehardy.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
You don't have to worry about the bacteria growing
in that barrel most of the time, especially at 130 proof it's
basically killing all bacteriaas soon as it enters it.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
I mean, it is definitely alcohol is what we
use to clean things first.
Medicine oh, I was just.
You know, some people you know,it's just like people don a lot
of people don't understand themedicinal aspect of how it can
kill bacteria when you drink it.
You shouldn't be drinkingmassive amounts, but a pour
(40:45):
before bed has eliminated quitea few colds for me, so anyways,
all right.
So you've covered that.
Now the distillery itself youhave been distilling and you
have eight-year-olds your owneight-year-old that you had
contracts with.
Correct, Correct.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
And since we contracted, and when you
contract you can have your ownmash bill and one of the things
we do different than a lot ofpeople, since I like a little
higher proof I enter into thebarrel a little higher proof and
a lot of people may go in at108 or something like that.
Maybe we'll go in at 112 to 116, which I don't know if it's
(41:35):
better or worse.
Some people say it won't gointo the barrel fast enough and
age with the maceration process,but I like the flavor profiles
that we're getting out of our8-year-old and even the
4-year-old is doing really wellthat we put together.
(41:56):
We've got quite a few againmash bills.
We've even got a five grain.
That we did quite a few yearsback.
I think that was in 17 or 18.
So that may be coming to themarket, but it's been hard not
having your own place and havingthe barrels there.
So once the barrels come over Ican sample those again and even
(42:19):
the um, you know, kind ofkentucky straight.
We bought 100 barrels of that.
It was 12 years old back in 1718 when we bought those, so
they're quite old now.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yeah, so are you distilling yourself now?
Speaker 3 (42:40):
Yeah, we distill also , we have to distill.
I have two DSPs, so twodifferent locations, two
different companies, twodifferent ownerships.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Yes, and you have to distill Now that stuff there
that you're distilling yourself.
Are you thinking of increasinga little production on that, or
are you basically doing the samething and then that's just
going to be kind of one-off,kind of things?
Speaker 3 (43:07):
It's a great way to experiment and try different
mash bills, different things youwant to do, so maybe someday
we'll be able to do a little bitmore.
But when you have great friendswith great distilleries, you
probably should really supportthem.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
I get it.
Yes, I can understand that.
Yeah, because I understand theaspect of contract distilling.
You, you, you did the specialblend at Bardstown, what they do
there with different brands andwhat they're doing there, plus
the other places.
I agree with you 100 percent.
It's, it's, it's.
(43:47):
They have all the equipment, Imean, and then the invested
hundreds of millions of dollarsinto these facilities.
So you know, hopefully we cankeep them all going you know I
was amazed, David Mandel, atwhat is it Kentucky?
Oh, I got to remember.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Whiskey House.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Whiskey.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
House of Kentucky right.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
That's what it's called.
I got to remember.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Whiskey House.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Whiskey House of Kentucky right, that's what it's
called Down there.
They just contracted to buildthose six state-of-the-art
rickhouses where the way it'sset up is designed for ultimate
control of airflow and thematuration and what you get in
(44:31):
different sections of therickhouse which I was just
reading about, that the companythat's building the rickhouse is
.
They've been advancing thetechnology and they were really
happy that these are going to bethe first of the kind of their
research of building.
For, you know, perfectingmaturation, you know everybody
when you hear what would you?
(44:53):
Rapid aging?
It's such a negative term.
So when you think about it it'slike a place like Buffalo Trace
.
They technically don't sayanything about what they do as
far as heating and cooling theirrickhouses, which some people
would call rapid aging correct.
But they just, you know,there's no such thing as making
a year go faster.
(45:13):
So if they're doing aseven-year or a six-year or
eight-year or whatever they'redoing, it's eight years and
there's a reason why some oftheir stuff tastes pretty damn
good because of the fact thathow they heat those rickhouses
it's so interesting, isn't it?
It is absolutely.
You know, my hat's off to themso, anyways, all right, so, and
(45:36):
my hat's off to you as far asblending and, uh, making some
fantastic whiskey.
I mean I enjoy your brand andcovet every bottle that I get.
I mean I it's when, uh, if I'vehad a hard day and I want to
feel better, I'll have a pour ofOld Carter and it just it
(45:56):
brings especially getting toknow you and Christy and
everything and the whole part ofyour brand and what you've done
and how much you care.
I mean, really it comes down tocaring and we definitely look
forward to going forward withwhat you know.
Now that you're putting outmore whiskey.
It's pretty damn exciting.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
Thank you for the support and thank you for having
me on.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
You know, yeah, I 100 percent.
I'm going to after, after we'redone, I'm just going to pinch
myself after after we're done,I'm just gonna pinch myself.
It's like mark, uh, reallyseriously, you're, you're just
everything that you do.
You're a super caring humanbeing.
I like, even just being wherewe've been, you can just tell,
(46:43):
um, you you love people.
You you were an in.
Obviously you're an innkeeper.
Yeah, you know.
And what you're doing andeverything that you do you care
about.
And that's why that I get intobourbon is for people like
yourself and Christy and all thepeople that I meet throughout,
because not only are you real,but you're the type of people
that I consistently meet and youknow, consider just, it's
(47:07):
almost like you guys becomefamily.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
Great community and you know I'm so happy to be part
of it and all the people I metin the community.
It's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yeah, definitely.
And then you produce somethinglike this, so I'm sure your time
gets pulled everywhere all thetime, right, I'm Pretty busy, so
do you have any places oranything you're doing coming up?
You know where you're going tobe out and about.
You know any festivals you guysare going to or anything like
that.
I like going to all thedifferent festivals.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
I don't get to pour at any of them because I don't
really have anything to pour,but I love meeting everybody and
tasting everybody's product andI usually will have some
whiskey in the trunk of my car.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Just kidding, just kidding, he's just kidding.
So what on the 14,?
What is your favorite profileof what you get off of this?
Speaker 3 (48:14):
A lot of marshmallow.
I get this like kind of eventhat roasted marshmallow over a
fire a little bit, you know.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
With a little bit of that char, Maybe some like
glazed cream brulee.
You know topping all the time.
When I smell this one, you knowit's dark, rich, roasted, like
candy.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Well, it sure does a drink at 134.3.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
I mean it's dangerously smooth, as we say.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yes, and the hug on this is just fantastic.
It warms your insides so it'skind of like roasting
marshmallows the taste ofmarshmallow, of a roasted
marshmallow, and the heat of thefire is in your stomach,
warming you all together at once.
(49:05):
But you know, it's not fiery,it's just nice and warm going
down.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
The finish is just pure creme brulee.
You know it's got a great.
You know coating, you knowgreat mouthfeel, viscosity and
that sweetness at the end.
It's what we're looking for.
This is, you know.
The 15 is a little different.
You know my taste.
I kept tasting, when I wasblending it, the three and the
four American whiskey batches,because people seem to like
(49:41):
those quite a bit, and so, youknow, usually there's always one
that's a little brighter.
I think this one's a littlebrighter than the 15.
You know a little higher notes,a hair maybe a little more
aromatics of fruit.
You may even get some fruitnotes on this.
(50:02):
The 15's a little darker, youknow, maybe a little richer Not
as sweet.
Yes, it's a little bit sweeter.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
That's what I remember off the 15.
The 15 was fantastic too, butit wasn't as sweet.
I'm going to go towards thatmore often than not is
19-year-old juice.
There you go, that picks up thatlittle bit of a.
(50:33):
It's almost like a.
You know, there's an aspect ofsome older whiskeys that taste
like the Dustys that are outthere.
Like that, when you havesomething that's been in a
bottle for 20, 30, 40 years,they all have a consistent taste
to them.
But if it's been in the barrelthat long, some some pick it up
(50:55):
the and others others don't haveas much, but that flavor is
there and the.
A lot of times when it's beenin the bottle it that that dusty
flavor kind of mixes all otherdusties together.
You know, like you, just it'sflavor, whereas when you get it
out of the barrel it seems to bethere, but not as overwhelming
(51:17):
when you get older.
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (51:21):
You know, not all barrels are great when they get
old.
I like the American whiskeysbecause they went into a used
barrel.
A seasoned barrel is what Iwould say to a used barrel.
A seasoned barrel is what Iwould say.
And you know they still alwaysseem to have that.
You know you're drinking olderwhiskey, which I think is cool.
(51:41):
You taste 14 and 15, you cansay this has got to be some old
whiskey.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Right.
What would be interesting is,in like 20 years and you kept a
bottle and then drank it at thatpoint, what it would do
Wouldn't that be interesting.
Yes, I don't know Both of us.
I can't wait.
Yeah, no, let's not speed it upthat fast.
But I will say that you knowthat's something that some
(52:10):
people don't.
But when it's in, even when theseal's done, the whiskey
changes in the bottle.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
I mean it just does it really does it really does,
and I don't.
You know people, some peopledon't believe that, but I've had
some great whiskeys that haveand you know even scotches that
have been sealed for 40 yearsand you pop them and they, they
will actually in some wayssometimes be like liqueurs and
other times they need.
(52:37):
Sometimes they need some airtoo.
You know, and you know, myfavorite story is telling the
you know, kind of old overhauls,1942.
Uh, bottle up and I bought sixof and popped it the first time
and poured it and we tasted andsaid, well, this isn't any good
at all, even though I only paid$100 for this.
(53:00):
And I bought six of them.
And then I put the cork on itand, you know, about a week
later went back and said I'lltry something to see if it
changed.
I go, oh my God, this isamazing.
A week later, just needed alittle air, poured it in a glass
, showed it to someone and theygo what is this?
Speaker 1 (53:19):
I said it's the same thing you drank last week and
it's wonderful, yeah, and we didthe first Dusty I ever had
Super Nash had picked up.
And he picked it up and it wasan old Carter from 19,.
Not an old Carter, but an oldTaylor from 1969.
And that old Taylor, when weopened it that night, I swear to
(53:42):
God, he opened it and itsmelled like my grandma's attic
and because it was a Dusty, weall had a pour and sat around
talking about how awesome it wasand I thought, am I gonna die?
So we drank it that night and Ijust the next morning.
(54:03):
We kind of all all laughed alittle bit and whatever.
And that was like the firstnight of k Bourbon Festival,
which was a Saturday.
By that next Friday that bottleturned into the best caramel
bomb bourbon I think I've evertasted.
It was so caramel, all that hadgone away.
All that mustiness or whateverwas gone.
(54:25):
It's just so unique.
On how you know the thing, thetelltale of a bad bourbon is if
it gets cloudy.
You don't want cloudiness on onsomething, but if it's, if it's
crystal clear, like that I'vejust had.
So you know some, but you, yougot to open them sometimes and
let them breathe, like you saidit's unbelievable, you know,
just like wine.
Speaker 3 (54:44):
You know, a lot of times it's older, let it breathe
a little bit.
And you know, sometimes, evenif it's new, let it breathe a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
Oh yeah, even this bottle to the batch nine
American whiskey.
Every time I drink this batchnine, it gets caramelier and
better each time.
So I think this has been open.
It was Christmas, not last, soit's a year and a half that's
been open.
I mean, this is by far one ofmy favorite with the batch nine.
(55:12):
American is one of my favoriteof of all time.
So I'm not drinking it, notdrinking a pour a night or
anything, but every once in awhile.
So, and then I really thinkyou're 14, let's see I think
that one one is that below 66,so one 23 yeah, 66.4, so it's
(55:42):
132.8, and then this one is one,it's a higher 134.3, so they're
close, but that one, this oneI'm batch 14 is a winner for me.
You've done it again, thank you.
So all right, um, let's, let'send the audio.
Speaker 3 (56:02):
Thank you okay thank you mark, for coming thank you I
appreciate it being on and um,I'll see you out there somewhere
in Kentucky, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
Yeah, actually, who knows, you might see me this
next weekend because I'm comingdown there.
I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm just supposedly supposed tobe there Friday, Saturday and
Sunday.
You know I will for sure.
Speaker 3 (56:26):
All right, thank you.
Speaker 1 (56:26):
Thanks for joining us .
All right, bye-bye, bye, bye,christy, bye us, bye-bye, bye,
christy.
All right, everybody, we're theScotchy Bourbon Boys
wwwscotchybourbonboyscom for allthings Scotchy Bourbon Boys,
and check us out on Facebook,youtube, instagram and X, along
with all the audio podcasts ofApple iHeart and Spotify.
(56:49):
Remember, make sure let's see.
Do I even know what I'm doinghere?
All right,
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