August 16, 2021 • 39 mins
This month we discuss dating, love & sexuality from a siblings perspective with sibling Filmmaker, Relationship & Communication Coach and Creative Entrepreneur, Sheena Brevig.
Transcript of this episode
Links mentioned in this episode:
- Dating With Cerebral Palsy Youtube Video
- Sheena's Website
- SLN's Self-Advocacy Resources page (links to Sex Talk for Self-Advocates)
- Sean's T-shirts
- SLN's COVID-19 Resource Center
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:02):
Welcome to the sibling Leadership Network podcast. The
sibling Leadership Network is anational nonprofit whose mission
is to provide siblings ofindividuals with disabilities
the information support andtools to advocate with their
brothers and sisters and topromote the issues important to
us and our entire families.
Hello, and welcome to anotherepisode of the sibling
(00:24):
Leadership Network podcast. I amjoined today by filmmaker
relationship coach and creativeentrepreneur Sheena Brevik.
Today we will be discussingdating love and sexuality from a
siblings perspective. Thank youfor joining us today Sheena.
Thank you so much for having me.
So you may be wondering why wewould choose to talk about
(00:45):
dating with a filmmaker. Well,earlier this year, Sheena
produced a video where shehelped her brother navigate the
dating world. If you go toYouTube and search for Buzzfeed
dating with cerebral palsy,you'll find Sheena's amazing
video where she tries to find adate for her brother Sean, who
has cerebral palsy. Find a linkin this episode's description.
(01:07):
So I'm just going to dive rightinto it. Sheena, your website
describes you as a creativeentrepreneur, passionate about
exploring the intersection ofneuroscience and storytelling,
who leverages art to increasedialogue in fight stigma around
mental health, particularly forqueer, Asian mixed race and
disability communities. Andyou're also a relationship and
(01:29):
Communication Coach, can youtell everyone a little bit about
your work in how being a siblinghas influenced your path?
Yeah, thanks for that question.
Man. That's it. This is kind ofa it's almost like a life story
question. Because I mean, beinga sibling has influenced
everything about who I am. And Ithink the choices I've made,
(01:51):
I'll try to summarize it. But tobegin, I actually went to I went
to Tufts University, and Istudied neuroscience, and I was
pre med, I thought I was goingto be a doctor. And a lot of
that was influenced by mybrother and my fascination with
the idea that in his case, withcerebral palsy, there's a, you
(02:15):
know, essentially a small pieceof brain damage that totally
affected everything in his life.
And in his case, he's kind ofvery middle of the road, in
terms of his abilities, anddisabilities, but I just was so
interested by the brain and byjust what makes us human. And so
(02:39):
I went on to study neuroscience.
But along the way, I realizedthat my real passion was in
storytelling. And I was like,Wait, I don't want to be a
doctor, I want to be on Grey'sAnatomy and play a doctor on TV.
But a lot of that struggle, Ithink, really came from several
aspects of my upbringing, youknow, part of it was being
(02:59):
raised, as I said, and then partof it was being raised as a
woman in our society. And then abig part of it is that my, I'm
half Japanese. And so I have alot of Japanese culture in my
life. And Japanese culture isalso very much about kind of
staying small and fitting in andkind of doing what you're
(03:20):
supposed to do. And so my kindof own life journey has really
been peeling back those layers,and trying to really discover
who I am. And like, what do Ireally want in need. And I think
this is a really common thingamongst a sibs, it's like, when
we're raised in a dynamic wherethere's another sibling, in the
(03:44):
family that tends to need moreattention tends to need more
support, we naturally becomemore independent, we naturally
kind of learn to deal with ourown stuff, right. And that is
all really great when you haveyou know, maybe a parent who's
overwhelmed or, you know, justkind of growing up, it's, it's
(04:05):
kind of a survival thing. And,but then I realized that those
aspects of people pleasing, andkind of thinking I had to do
everything on my own. Theyreally hindered me in my adult
life. And in my adultrelationships, I really found
that I didn't know how toexpress my needs or wants at
(04:27):
all. And I think that's where Ireally turned to acting and
storytelling, was that I feltlike I could express all these
kind of, you know, what weconsider dark emotions, you
know, anger, things I felt Icouldn't express about my
brother, or about my situation.
(04:48):
Because who, you know, I feltlike Who was I like, I my legs
work? Great. I'm a dancer forgoodness sake. Like, what do I
have to complain about? Butthen, you know, learning that
it's not about comparison It'snot about, you know, who has it
worse or better or whatever it'slike your your feelings are
valid, your experiences arevalid. And I think it took going
(05:09):
into acting and becoming anactor to start even seeing all
that, that I needed to workthrough and myself. And that
kind of catapulted me into myown self self development and
mental health journey. And thenI learned that I had anxiety,
and that I'd been dealing withanxiety my whole life. And so
(05:32):
with this kind of my own selfgrowth and self development
journey, that's actually kind ofhow I started coaching was just
that I threw myself into tryingto understand why I had such
anxiety, how to cope with it,why I wasn't happy when like on
paper, I was like, Why should Ibe happy? You know, I'm very
(05:54):
privileged, I, you know, allthese things. But I wasn't
because I wasn't really beingauthentic to who I was and who I
am. So I joke that I had to comeout three times, because I am
queer, and an artist, and I havemental health things, I have
anxiety. And each of those kindof coming outs were these big
(06:18):
moments for me, where I almostfelt like I could exhale, and be
like, Oh, okay, this is who Iam. This is a part of me.
And so I share kind of this longstory with you. That's really
broad, because all of thatreally informs whites so
important to me to be astoryteller, because media and
(06:39):
seeing these types of stories.
You know, I didn't have thosegrowing up. I didn't see a mixed
race, queer femme, that wasnavigating who she was in this
world, with multiple cultures,like, you know, Hollywood wasn't
there yet. And now we'restarting to get there. And, and
that's a whole otherconversation about, you know,
the work I want to do there. Butthere's that. And then there's
(07:01):
my coaching. And it's, it'sreally turned into this amazing
thing where I, you know, overthe years, accumulated enough
resources and tools andknowledge that now I'm able to
support others who are goingthrough things that I went
through.
Nice. Very cool. Thank you forsharing. That's awesome. Um, so
(07:25):
yeah,I did I did I cover everything.
Yeah, I think so. And if youhave more despair at any point,
please.
Okay. Well, yeah, I think all ofthat is just to say that, um,
yeah, I really credit my siblingidentity, to being to playing a
really big role and all of that.
(07:45):
Nice. Um, so what in specificled you to wanting to help Shawn
get out into the dating world?
And what reservations as asibling did you have about
stepping in and helping out? Didyou have any fears about
starting the process? And howdid you overcome them?
(08:06):
Yeah, so with my brother, Sean,if you watch the YouTube video,
you'll get a good idea of kindof what he's like in terms of
his abilities. And, and you cansee that, in most ways, he's a
regular 27 year old dude, heactually just turned 27. So, you
know, he's like, he wants tohang out with his friends, he
(08:27):
wants to go out drinking hewants to date. Like, that's been
a big thing that he's wanted foryears. And, in his case, it's
harder, we've found that it'skind of harder for him to
connect, because, like growingup and being in school, you
know, he was in special ed, andthe people in his class, he was
(08:52):
a little bit ahead of, in someways, and then but then kind of
the, you know, the mainstreamkids, he was a little bit
delayed, so he kind of was stuckin this middle zone, where he
couldn't find many people thatcould he could really connect
to, in the ways that he wanted.
And so this is just kind of beena big theme for him and in the
(09:14):
way that I think it is foreveryone. You know, we all want
to feel love, and we want to beloved and express love. And you
know, luckily Sean is a reallypositive happy go lucky guy. I,
you know, I there's a lot oflessons that I've learned from
him in terms of just lettingthings go and being in the
moment because he's pretty darngood at just like, you know,
(09:36):
doing that.
But anyway, so, as afilmmaker, I had an opportunity
to work on a project withBuzzFeed and I had expressed to
a friend who works there thatyou know, this is a topic I'm
interested in exploringsomething with my brother and
and being a sieve and kind ofthis dynamic, but I really
(09:57):
didn't want it to be about himhaving a disability, I just
wanted that to be a part of thestory. And then, you know, as I
was talking to my brother, andwhatnot, it, it just kind of
seemed like this would be a funproject that also benefited my
brother and allowed us to kindof explore this thing that he's
(10:17):
been wanting to explore. Um, so,I mean, that's kind of how that
project came to be. And yeah, Idefinitely had hesitations, or
reservations, you know, it's,the Internet can be a brutal
world. And the disabilitycommunity is very vocal. And
(10:39):
there's just a lot of differentopinions even within the
disability community. So as afilmmaker, I'm always thinking
about representation, andaccurate, authentic
representation. So that was all,you know, a big thing on my
mind, from the storytellerperspective. And then, you know,
as a sister, it's like, you mybaby brother, I adore him, I
(11:02):
loved him, I want to protecthim, I want nothing but to
protect him. And that's been myjourney of being like, Okay,
well, I can't just like, youknow, be a helicopter parent to
him. And with dating, it's justyeah, you kind of have to let
people spread their wings, andstumble and fall. And, you know,
(11:24):
if I could just be interviewingevery single person all the
time, I totally would. But like,I also have been very grateful,
and also very aware of having myown life and making sure that I
don't take on his things that Idon't feel like I want to, you
know, that boundary is somethingthat I, I always have to kind of
(11:45):
check in with myself about.
Yeah, with, with having fears,starting the process. I mean, it
just kind of seemed like a goodopportunity. I had some support
from BuzzFeed in terms ofcreating the video and reaching
out to people. So trying tospread the word, but it was
really, really hard. And to findpeople, even, you know, I had, I
(12:10):
had a team behind me helping mesearch for these dates that I
was setting my brother up on.
And I still had such a hard timefinding people. So but the thing
was, because of the opportunity,I kind of was like, let's just,
let's just do it. Let's justjump in. And, and my brother
also has been, like, wanting to,you know, make up make a movie
(12:32):
with me, because I'm in film,and you know, he wants to do a
project with me. So it was alsoa nice opportunity for us to do
something that he's really beenwanting to do together. You
Yeah.
Nice. Cool. So, for any siblingkind of just starting this
journey, do you have anyresources or just advice that
(12:53):
you can recommend for? Yeah,anybody considering just helping
get that started for theirsibling?
You know, the, the resourcesthing is tricky. Because I, you
know, you can Google stuff for,you know, dating with
disabilities. And there, thereare some dating sites out there.
There are some apps, it seemslike a lot of them are paid. And
(13:17):
not a lot of people are on them.
So, you know, I think this isprobably a roadblock that most
most of us in this kind ofposition have have hit. I used
to work as a one on one with awoman have Down syndrome as kind
of just staff and support staff.
And I learned so much from thatjob, because the whole
(13:42):
organization that I worked for,it was really about how do we
support these individuals withintellectual and developmental
disabilities? How do we supportthem to live the most
independent and full life thatthey can write and this means
treating them like full grownadult humans who, you know,
like, if, if someone wanted togo get a beer, you take them to
(14:06):
go get a beer, you know, ofcourse, within reason, and
you're making sure everyone'ssafe and it's legal and all of
that, or, like, for example, youknow, wanting to go like if
someone like one of the clientsthat I didn't work with, but you
know, he wanted to go to a stripclub. And so the staff supported
him in that as you know, like,it's like, you know, the thing
(14:31):
is, everyone is everyone washuman, has desires and needs and
most people have sexual needsand sexual desires and romantic
needs and romantic desires. AndI think keeping in mind you
know, really talking to yoursibling about what what are they
looking for, because some peoplemight just want a cuddle buddy,
(14:54):
someone might want someone toget married to like, there's
such a range of whatrelationships can Be. So I
think, I guess step one isreally talking to your sibling.
Because it's so easy, I know formyself to want to interject with
my opinions of who this personshould be, and, and what they
should be like. And, you know,at the end of the day, it's not,
(15:17):
it's not about, it's not up tome or my wants or needs. For
him. It's what my brother wantsand needs. And then I think,
going back to my, my previousjob, I was mentioning, what I
loved about this particularclient I worked with Is she
really had a framework,supported by her family, where
she was really in a community.
And she was able to participatein you know, like acting
(15:43):
classes, and just things thatdefinitely were, you know,
related to having privilege,there was definitely an element
of that. But there are communityspaces and organizations out
there for people with, you know,intellectual and developmental
(16:04):
disabilities. So I think part ofit is also seeking out those
spaces where people can meet newpeople. And that's like, my man
might be the hilight on with mybrother, because I'm like, you
have to go out in person becausehe's like, I just want to meet
people on Tik Tok and Instagram,like, Okay, that's great. But
like, that also leads to lots ofrobots, which we're discovering,
(16:25):
and not real people or scammers,which is a whole other, you
know, scary thing. So, I guess,you know, it's really tuning
into what are the resourcesavailable for you and your
sibling? You know, what's yoursibling looking for? And what
are they willing to do to kindof explore this?
(16:48):
Thanks. Yeah, that's soundadvice. Thank you. So I'm sure a
lot of people who have alreadyseen the video are asking
themselves like, so how is Shawndoing? Is he still dating? Is he
continuing to get out there? Ifso, how has your support role in
the process changed if at allover time?
(17:10):
Yeah, so Shawn has, in thebeginning, there were still some
people that were kind ofreplying to the, I guess, kind
of like posting about, you know,looking for a date for him. And,
but no one kind of sparked hisinterest. So I still kind of
played the messenger, I guess,of, you know, being like, hey,
(17:32):
what about this person, and, andthe funny thing was, um, he, he
is he loves to draw, and my momhelped him print some of his
drawings on to T shirts. And wetalked about this in the video.
So he has some tricks that hesells. And they're these really
fun characters. And, you know,it's really very creative.
(17:55):
Almost like Picasso, he. Butwhat happened was that actually
a lot of people started buyinghis church. So then he, yeah,
and so which is great. And so hekind of then got focused on the
short selling part, and kind ofwas, like less interested in
these virtual dates. I thinkpart of it is that's the other
(18:17):
thing, right? Is it's virtual.
And that makes it harder toengage, and, you know, harder to
kind of really connect. And so Ithink while we're still kind of
in these COVID times, he's beena little bit more just focused
on selling shirts. Yeah. But Iguess I think I, it feels like
(18:38):
my role has definitely been, Iguess, I don't know, it takes up
less of my time, right to kindof weed through people that are
reaching out. But now it's moreof navigating just the internet
space with him. That's kind ofbecome a whole other battle. I
(19:02):
guess. That?
Yeah, pretty trending right now.
So it really is. And it's notsomething that I was that
conscious of in terms of, like,the specifics with which I've
had to my parents, you know,give us had to talk to my
(19:25):
brother about what to say whatnot to say what to do, what not
to do. You know what informationyou can give to people it's
there's so much nuance that weare all you know, we all kind of
pick up naturally when we don'thave disabilities that kind of
effect that type of reasoning.
And so there have beenconversations that we've had to
(19:45):
have where it's like, Man, Ireally didn't think I had to
have that conversation with you.
But here we are. Yeah, and soyou know, that's, that's a space
that is so new To write relativeto just life, that there's a
there's a lot that needs tostill be addressed in terms of
(20:06):
Internet safety.
Yeah. As you mentioned, for somepeople, the point of dating is
leading to a fulfilling romanticrelationships, sexual
experiences, and in some cases,even marriage. These are all
huge considerations. So let'sstart with relationships. What
advice or resources? Would youhave to share to talking about
(20:30):
your sibling about arelationship and how to get
there?
Man? That's a great question. Soa lot of the work I do as a
relationship coach is focusedaround communication. And so I
guess I'll just harp on thatwhere it's, you know, like,
really, really explicitlytalking about things I think, is
(20:54):
really important. In general,like, we really like to assume
we know what someone's thinking.
And that often gets people introuble, because there's
misunderstandings and then, youknow, suddenly you're fighting
with your partner about who'sgonna clean the dishes, when
that like, wasn't even the bigissue. So I think all with our
(21:15):
siblings, if there's, especiallyif there's developmental delay,
it's so important to be reallyexplicit. And really clear, I
think about what being in arelationship can look like, kind
of going back to talking to themabout what they want, what
(21:39):
they're looking for. I thinkthat it's, you kind of have to
break it down for your sibling,you know, and I think a sibs are
really good at that. Right? Wewe've, most of us have had to
learn how to really simplifythings and break them down in a
step by step process, when mostpeople kind of like don't really
(22:02):
think about it. So So I guess,you know, depending on where
your sibling is at, and whattheir needs are, like a lot of
it's patience and being beingwilling to talk about the
uncomfortable stuff toface. Yeah. Speaking of
uncomfortable, the next one isthe big awkward one. For most
siblings, sex. A lot of siblingsare lucky enough to have parents
(22:24):
or therapists or other supportstaff who can address this topic
with our siblings. However, someof us have to just dive in and
talk to our siblings about itourselves. Have you ever had to
have this conversation? And whatadvice might you have with for
any sibling who's preparing tohave that conversation with
their sibling with a disability?
(22:46):
Yeah, um, I have been lucky inthat my parents have mostly
tackled the really awkward sexconversations. But I've also
kind of been a part of them attimes. I mean, again, I think
part of it is being explicit.
You know, we, we don't like tosay words like penis and vagina.
(23:08):
Like, it makes everyone giggle.
But like, nobody, you know, sexthat is so awful in general in
just like regular education, butmost people with IDD actually
aren't even included in sex ed.
Yeah. Right. And so I actuallyjust came across a video series
(23:32):
that is specifically talkingabout sex. And it's kind of like
a mini sex ed course. That is bypeople with IDD. And for
people's it is really great. AndI will have to find out where
that is and get that to you. Ithink, you
(23:53):
know, yeah, I think it's the oneby startech and AUCD. We have it
up on sibling leadership.org Inour self advocacy resources
page, towards the bottom. I willput a link to that in the
episode description as well.
Amazing, amazing. Yes, youalready have it great. Yeah, I
(24:14):
mean, that video series, I feltlike was just really well done.
broke things down, didn't makeit shameful. Like, that's a big
thing is, you know, people,people feel awkward talking
about sex, and it can makepeople feel defensive, or, you
know, shame people aroundcertain things. And I think they
(24:36):
do such a good job of justexplaining things as they are.
And so I guess that yeah, thatwould be my recommendation is
maybe watch that with a siblingor you know, tell them to watch
it and you watch it separatelyand then you can kind of have a
conversation about any questionsthey have. Because there's a
just from a research perspectivewith media. There's a lot more
(25:00):
integration that can happen whenyou can process. It's called co
viewing, right? With children,it's often viewed as parent and
children co viewing. And whenyou're a parent, and you can
watch something with your childand talk about it, it really
helps them integrate thelessons. And I think that
applies with, you know, oursiblings as well.
Yeah, my sister is actuallycurrently watching that series
(25:20):
with her therapist, and she'sthoroughly enjoying it. So
that's awesome. I can'trecommend it highly enough. Um,
so let's go into that last bit.
Let's talk about marriage. Haveyou ever imagined your brother
getting married? As a sibling ofa person with a disability? How
do you think we process the ideaof marriage differently than
most people? And how does thisimpact how we support our
(25:44):
siblings who want to pursue amarriage?
That's, I think, a very deepquestion. And, yeah, I think,
you know, it makes me emotionalto talk about because, like I've
said, my brother's always wantedto date. And he has always
(26:06):
expressed, wanting those thingsthat we kind of, as a society,
deem as these milestones, right?
You know, as someone in thequeer community, marriage is
less of a thing that is kind ofas it's there's, there's a lot
of normalcy around just beingpartnership partners for life,
right without having to put thepatriarchal stamp on it. So I
(26:29):
also have kind of an interestinglens with that, but at the same
time, I was, you know, I wasraised straight, as most of us
are. So I still have a lot ofkind of, you know, ideas of
marriage, for myself, and I'mstill really kind of trying to
(26:50):
break down what that means forme and my relationship. And I
really, I hope that my brotherfind someone that he can be
with, and whether that'smarriage, or just a life
partner, or just dating a lot ofdifferent people. But you know,
(27:13):
it's like, I want him to havethat connection. And I really
hope he gets to experience thatone day. And it is kind of a
bittersweet thing to thinkabout, because I don't know if
that will happen for him. And Ithink it's a lot easier. You
know, if you have a friend who'ssingle, and they're like, I'm so
I'm still single, and you know,it's easy to be like, Oh, you'll
(27:36):
find someone and, and, and I dobelieve that, like, I really do
trust that like, you will findsomeone. But, you know, if I'm
being real with you, sibling tosibling, like, it's hard to
think about, like, maybe that'snot in the cards for him? I
don't know. So, you know, Iknow, people with a couple who
has, they both have Downsyndrome, and they're married,
(28:01):
and they are pretty dependent.
And so, you know, for the mostpart, they are doing the, quote,
normal thing around marriage.
And I think that's reallypossible for lots of different
people with varyingdisabilities. And I think it's
kind of one of those thingswhere, I guess, I haven't had, I
(28:22):
haven't yet had to talk aboutwhat the commitment of marriage
means, right? Like, I'm evenstill thinking about that for
myself. So I've, I have yet to,like fully process that for my
brother. But I guess, you know,it just kind of depends on, you
know, and the legal part I don'teven know much about in terms of
(28:45):
like legally if, if someone whois a dependent gets married,
like, you know, who's in chargeof what? So I guess, step one
for me, like, I'll just givemyself some advice would be like
understanding that. And then,you know, saying, like, how does
marriage fit in? Is it about thepiece of paper? Or is it about
the act of you know, celebratingsomeone's love? Is it more about
(29:08):
just like having a reception, amarriage type ceremony? I don't
know. So I guess part of that islike, choose, get to choose your
own adventure. And you know, ifyour sibling find someone that
they want to commit to these twoin these ways, like, see what
that looks like, see if thatmakes sense for you know, all
(29:29):
the people who have to supportas well. And I think you have to
go from there.
Makes sense? Yeah. Thank you.
Um, so what impact might beingpart of the LGBTQ A plus
community or being a person ofcolor have on dating for our
siblings with disabilities? Andwhat comments? Can you share
(29:53):
with any siblings who are makingthat part of their dating
conversation?
Being Part of the queercommunity. And being a person of
color for me, has greatly been apart of just my learning about
myself and my self expression,as I've mentioned earlier, and I
(30:13):
think that, and I don't know,because like I'm thinking about
some people with disabilities,that I know who like really
don't give a crap. Like who youlove, right? Like, I feel like,
there's so much less judgement,I feel so much less judgement,
when I'm amongst people withvarious disabilities, like,
they're just like, yeah, yeah,you're you. I'm me, I'm this
(30:34):
way, I'm different in theseways, and you're you and you're
different in those ways, anddoesn't really matter. But I
guess part of it is like,there's an extra layer of social
conditioning, and things likethat, that we have to fight
through when we are queer, atleast for one. Since we live in
(30:56):
a very heteronormative world,and then being a person of
color, I think that's always apart, you know, it's usually a
more apparent part of someone'sidentity, and one that is kind
of been integrated in theirlife, probably their whole
lives. I guess the big thing is,if you don't identify as part of
the LGBTQI plus community, andyour sibling does, being
(31:20):
sensitive to that, to what thatmeans, and not assuming that you
know, what their experiences,right? I mean, I think that can
be said with everything is like,we as the sibs tend to feel like
we know ourselves the best,which we often do. But that
doesn't mean that we know what'sbest, even though I like to
think that. And I think itreally is just important to, to
(31:44):
come in with an open mind andreally talk to yourself and try
and understand what theirexperience is, and see how you
can best support that.
Nice. Alright, so lastly, justto kind of wrap everything up,
in your opinion, how can we assiblings do a good job of
supporting our siblings lovelife? In balancing our own life?
(32:07):
What advice would you have toany sibling feeling a little
burnt out on dating orconsidering just giving up on
love?
Oh, yeah, I mean, like Imentioned earlier, that boundary
of, you know, self care and, anddoing the things I need to for
myself and, and helping out, mysibling, my brother, it's when
(32:28):
I, it really ebbs and flows forme. And I think a lot of that
comes down to me getting to knowmyself a lot better, me learning
how to tune in, and, you know,feel like, I can recognize where
my anxiety is coming from if I'mexperiencing anxiety. And I
(32:48):
really like this idea I was, Iwas working with a client
recently, and we were talkingabout this imagery of having
thick boundaries, right. So it'skind of like, it's, I think we
often think of a boundary, it'slike this like line that you
just like, you can go acentimeter too far, and then
you've just crossed it. Butinstead of having this kind of
image of this, like thick,almost like cushy boundary,
(33:10):
where there's room to ebb andflow, where it's like,
sometimes, you know, you mightbe able to give more, and
support your sibling more. Andthen there might be a season
where you really have to focuson yourself. And that's okay.
And that's so important.
Because, you know, we hear thisall the time of like, you can't
support other people and untilyou help yourself, but like, I
heard that my whole life, I hadno idea what that really meant
(33:32):
for the longest time. But nowthat I actually understand what
that looks like, it really is soimportant. Like I, I just get
frustrated with my brother and Iget snappy with my brother, if
I'm not aligned with myself. Andso those are signals to me like,
okay, okay, hold on, like, maybetake a step back, like, go tune
in, check in with yourself, dowhat you need to do do the self
(33:56):
care. And then and let him know,like, in my case, I'm like, you
know, Hey, buddy, like, I amreally just busy right now.
Like, let's circle back to thisnext week, like, can you give me
a call next week about thisspecific thing, we'll talk about
it then. And then some days,it's like, you know, we're
talking more daily or whateverit is. A big thing is really
learning how to tune intoyourself and recognize when your
(34:20):
boundary is being close to beingcrossed. And and thinking about
how do you set up thickboundaries, like in my case, I
don't live in the same city asmy brother. So it's not a thing
where he can just like come overor something like that. So that
it's more about, you know, ifhe's calling all the time, I
(34:41):
don't pick up every time thingslike that, you know, it's like
it's so funny because they feellike such simple things. But
they really are big and whenyou're used to picking up the
phone every time becausesomething might be wrong or
whatever it is. It's hard. It'shard to make those shifts. But
if you feel like you are So thisis a little bit of another
question. But if you as thesieve are feeling burnt out, you
(35:03):
know, definitely find ways youknow, work with a coach, work
with a therapist, to make surethat you have the tools to kind
of come back to your center. Sothat then you're able to support
your said, and then in terms ofour sibs feeling burnt out on
dating or considering giving upon love. I think that's such a
hard place, right? It's likeI've seen just in a brief
(35:27):
period, you know, my brother,still very young. But dating has
been hard for him. And so Ithink it's less about just like
giving up on love or whatnot.
But I think in those times,that's where you tune in Word,
or you tune to your turn to yourcommunity. Right? It's like, we
(35:52):
all really just want toexperience love and belonging.
And, yes, it's wonderful whenwhen we can find like a life
partner, or something like that.
And again, I'm also speaking invery monogamous terms, which
made us that's a whole otherconversation to go to non
monogamy or ethical nonmonogamy, but just want to
count, you know, that asteriskthere, but but, you know, we
(36:15):
want to experience love andbelonging, and we think that
that has to come from a romanticpartner, but it doesn't. I'm not
saying that people don't deservethat. I think everyone does, if
they want it.
But we also can give so much toourselves. And that's a lot of
(36:37):
the work that I've had to do.
And I continue to do for myself,and the work that I do with,
within my relationship coaching,where it's like, you know, we
often turn outwards, for thingsto fill to fill the holes in us,
when really, we should befilling those for ourselves. So
maybe, you know, if you arefeeling burnt out or feeling
(36:58):
like given up, you just take abreak, just take some time away
from focusing your energy intodating, if that doesn't feel
like it's giving you resultsthat you want, and turn towards
you know, what are your hobbiesthat you love? What really
lights you up? what friends doyou have that you can spend time
with Thor, you know, and COVIDsafely, of course, and these
(37:19):
times? And, you know, I thinkcoming back to how do you give
yourself love can really, Ithink, recharge us right? And
then at some point, you might belike, oh, you know what, I feel
ready to try dating again. And Ialso have that experience where
as soon as I finally feel likeI've stopped focusing on
(37:42):
something right where I'm like,I've been trying to date and not
happening so fine. I'm gonna,I'm gonna finally give up. And
then some something comes along.
Right. So it's like, I feel likethat's such a common thing where
you're finally ready to justlike not give something any
energy, and then it just pops upinto your life. So I guess,
(38:04):
yeah, I think maybe it's just abalancing act of giving yourself
that self love and then taking abreak and coming back to it just
when it feels right for you.
Nice. Yeah, that's great advice.
Thank you so much. So all theresources that you've mentioned
today, I will make sure to putinto the episode description, as
well as a link to our COVIDResources page so that you can
(38:29):
get out there and be safe.
Sheena, it has been an absolutepleasure. Very awesome. Thank
you so much for joining ustoday. This has been a great
conversation.
Thank you so so much for havingme and thank you for having this
conversation. We need moreconversations like this. So
thank you.
Find resources, tools andinformation about the sibling
(38:50):
experience on sibling leadershipdot board. The sibling
Leadership Network is anonprofit and we rely on support
from our audience. Find thedonation button on our homepage
and contribute to the evergrowing sibling movement.
Welcome to the sibling Leadership Network podcast. The
sibling Leadership Network is anational nonprofit whose mission
is to provide siblings ofindividuals with disabilities
the information support andtools to advocate with their
brothers and sisters and topromote the issues important to
us and our entire families.
Hello, and welcome to anotherepisode of the sibling
(00:24):
Leadership Network podcast. I amjoined today by filmmaker
relationship coach and creativeentrepreneur Sheena Brevik.
Today we will be discussingdating love and sexuality from a
siblings perspective. Thank youfor joining us today Sheena.
Thank you so much for having me.
So you may be wondering why wewould choose to talk about
(00:45):
dating with a filmmaker. Well,earlier this year, Sheena
produced a video where shehelped her brother navigate the
dating world. If you go toYouTube and search for Buzzfeed
dating with cerebral palsy,you'll find Sheena's amazing
video where she tries to find adate for her brother Sean, who
has cerebral palsy. Find a linkin this episode's description.
(01:07):
So I'm just going to dive rightinto it. Sheena, your website
describes you as a creativeentrepreneur, passionate about
exploring the intersection ofneuroscience and storytelling,
who leverages art to increasedialogue in fight stigma around
mental health, particularly forqueer, Asian mixed race and
disability communities. Andyou're also a relationship and
(01:29):
Communication Coach, can youtell everyone a little bit about
your work in how being a siblinghas influenced your path?
Yeah, thanks for that question.
Man. That's it. This is kind ofa it's almost like a life story
question. Because I mean, beinga sibling has influenced
everything about who I am. And Ithink the choices I've made,
(01:51):
I'll try to summarize it. But tobegin, I actually went to I went
to Tufts University, and Istudied neuroscience, and I was
pre med, I thought I was goingto be a doctor. And a lot of
that was influenced by mybrother and my fascination with
the idea that in his case, withcerebral palsy, there's a, you
(02:15):
know, essentially a small pieceof brain damage that totally
affected everything in his life.
And in his case, he's kind ofvery middle of the road, in
terms of his abilities, anddisabilities, but I just was so
interested by the brain and byjust what makes us human. And so
(02:39):
I went on to study neuroscience.
But along the way, I realizedthat my real passion was in
storytelling. And I was like,Wait, I don't want to be a
doctor, I want to be on Grey'sAnatomy and play a doctor on TV.
But a lot of that struggle, Ithink, really came from several
aspects of my upbringing, youknow, part of it was being
(02:59):
raised, as I said, and then partof it was being raised as a
woman in our society. And then abig part of it is that my, I'm
half Japanese. And so I have alot of Japanese culture in my
life. And Japanese culture isalso very much about kind of
staying small and fitting in andkind of doing what you're
(03:20):
supposed to do. And so my kindof own life journey has really
been peeling back those layers,and trying to really discover
who I am. And like, what do Ireally want in need. And I think
this is a really common thingamongst a sibs, it's like, when
we're raised in a dynamic wherethere's another sibling, in the
(03:44):
family that tends to need moreattention tends to need more
support, we naturally becomemore independent, we naturally
kind of learn to deal with ourown stuff, right. And that is
all really great when you haveyou know, maybe a parent who's
overwhelmed or, you know, justkind of growing up, it's, it's
(04:05):
kind of a survival thing. And,but then I realized that those
aspects of people pleasing, andkind of thinking I had to do
everything on my own. Theyreally hindered me in my adult
life. And in my adultrelationships, I really found
that I didn't know how toexpress my needs or wants at
(04:27):
all. And I think that's where Ireally turned to acting and
storytelling, was that I feltlike I could express all these
kind of, you know, what weconsider dark emotions, you
know, anger, things I felt Icouldn't express about my
brother, or about my situation.
(04:48):
Because who, you know, I feltlike Who was I like, I my legs
work? Great. I'm a dancer forgoodness sake. Like, what do I
have to complain about? Butthen, you know, learning that
it's not about comparison It'snot about, you know, who has it
worse or better or whatever it'slike your your feelings are
valid, your experiences arevalid. And I think it took going
(05:09):
into acting and becoming anactor to start even seeing all
that, that I needed to workthrough and myself. And that
kind of catapulted me into myown self self development and
mental health journey. And thenI learned that I had anxiety,
and that I'd been dealing withanxiety my whole life. And so
(05:32):
with this kind of my own selfgrowth and self development
journey, that's actually kind ofhow I started coaching was just
that I threw myself into tryingto understand why I had such
anxiety, how to cope with it,why I wasn't happy when like on
paper, I was like, Why should Ibe happy? You know, I'm very
(05:54):
privileged, I, you know, allthese things. But I wasn't
because I wasn't really beingauthentic to who I was and who I
am. So I joke that I had to comeout three times, because I am
queer, and an artist, and I havemental health things, I have
anxiety. And each of those kindof coming outs were these big
(06:18):
moments for me, where I almostfelt like I could exhale, and be
like, Oh, okay, this is who Iam. This is a part of me.
And so I share kind of this longstory with you. That's really
broad, because all of thatreally informs whites so
important to me to be astoryteller, because media and
(06:39):
seeing these types of stories.
You know, I didn't have thosegrowing up. I didn't see a mixed
race, queer femme, that wasnavigating who she was in this
world, with multiple cultures,like, you know, Hollywood wasn't
there yet. And now we'restarting to get there. And, and
that's a whole otherconversation about, you know,
the work I want to do there. Butthere's that. And then there's
(07:01):
my coaching. And it's, it'sreally turned into this amazing
thing where I, you know, overthe years, accumulated enough
resources and tools andknowledge that now I'm able to
support others who are goingthrough things that I went
through.
Nice. Very cool. Thank you forsharing. That's awesome. Um, so
(07:25):
yeah,I did I did I cover everything.
Yeah, I think so. And if youhave more despair at any point,
please.
Okay. Well, yeah, I think all ofthat is just to say that, um,
yeah, I really credit my siblingidentity, to being to playing a
really big role and all of that.
(07:45):
Nice. Um, so what in specificled you to wanting to help Shawn
get out into the dating world?
And what reservations as asibling did you have about
stepping in and helping out? Didyou have any fears about
starting the process? And howdid you overcome them?
(08:06):
Yeah, so with my brother, Sean,if you watch the YouTube video,
you'll get a good idea of kindof what he's like in terms of
his abilities. And, and you cansee that, in most ways, he's a
regular 27 year old dude, heactually just turned 27. So, you
know, he's like, he wants tohang out with his friends, he
(08:27):
wants to go out drinking hewants to date. Like, that's been
a big thing that he's wanted foryears. And, in his case, it's
harder, we've found that it'skind of harder for him to
connect, because, like growingup and being in school, you
know, he was in special ed, andthe people in his class, he was
(08:52):
a little bit ahead of, in someways, and then but then kind of
the, you know, the mainstreamkids, he was a little bit
delayed, so he kind of was stuckin this middle zone, where he
couldn't find many people thatcould he could really connect
to, in the ways that he wanted.
And so this is just kind of beena big theme for him and in the
(09:14):
way that I think it is foreveryone. You know, we all want
to feel love, and we want to beloved and express love. And you
know, luckily Sean is a reallypositive happy go lucky guy. I,
you know, I there's a lot oflessons that I've learned from
him in terms of just lettingthings go and being in the
moment because he's pretty darngood at just like, you know,
(09:36):
doing that.
But anyway, so, as afilmmaker, I had an opportunity
to work on a project withBuzzFeed and I had expressed to
a friend who works there thatyou know, this is a topic I'm
interested in exploringsomething with my brother and
and being a sieve and kind ofthis dynamic, but I really
(09:57):
didn't want it to be about himhaving a disability, I just
wanted that to be a part of thestory. And then, you know, as I
was talking to my brother, andwhatnot, it, it just kind of
seemed like this would be a funproject that also benefited my
brother and allowed us to kindof explore this thing that he's
(10:17):
been wanting to explore. Um, so,I mean, that's kind of how that
project came to be. And yeah, Idefinitely had hesitations, or
reservations, you know, it's,the Internet can be a brutal
world. And the disabilitycommunity is very vocal. And
(10:39):
there's just a lot of differentopinions even within the
disability community. So as afilmmaker, I'm always thinking
about representation, andaccurate, authentic
representation. So that was all,you know, a big thing on my
mind, from the storytellerperspective. And then, you know,
as a sister, it's like, you mybaby brother, I adore him, I
(11:02):
loved him, I want to protecthim, I want nothing but to
protect him. And that's been myjourney of being like, Okay,
well, I can't just like, youknow, be a helicopter parent to
him. And with dating, it's justyeah, you kind of have to let
people spread their wings, andstumble and fall. And, you know,
(11:24):
if I could just be interviewingevery single person all the
time, I totally would. But like,I also have been very grateful,
and also very aware of having myown life and making sure that I
don't take on his things that Idon't feel like I want to, you
know, that boundary is somethingthat I, I always have to kind of
(11:45):
check in with myself about.
Yeah, with, with having fears,starting the process. I mean, it
just kind of seemed like a goodopportunity. I had some support
from BuzzFeed in terms ofcreating the video and reaching
out to people. So trying tospread the word, but it was
really, really hard. And to findpeople, even, you know, I had, I
(12:10):
had a team behind me helping mesearch for these dates that I
was setting my brother up on.
And I still had such a hard timefinding people. So but the thing
was, because of the opportunity,I kind of was like, let's just,
let's just do it. Let's justjump in. And, and my brother
also has been, like, wanting to,you know, make up make a movie
(12:32):
with me, because I'm in film,and you know, he wants to do a
project with me. So it was alsoa nice opportunity for us to do
something that he's really beenwanting to do together. You
Yeah.
Nice. Cool. So, for any siblingkind of just starting this
journey, do you have anyresources or just advice that
(12:53):
you can recommend for? Yeah,anybody considering just helping
get that started for theirsibling?
You know, the, the resourcesthing is tricky. Because I, you
know, you can Google stuff for,you know, dating with
disabilities. And there, thereare some dating sites out there.
There are some apps, it seemslike a lot of them are paid. And
(13:17):
not a lot of people are on them.
So, you know, I think this isprobably a roadblock that most
most of us in this kind ofposition have have hit. I used
to work as a one on one with awoman have Down syndrome as kind
of just staff and support staff.
And I learned so much from thatjob, because the whole
(13:42):
organization that I worked for,it was really about how do we
support these individuals withintellectual and developmental
disabilities? How do we supportthem to live the most
independent and full life thatthey can write and this means
treating them like full grownadult humans who, you know,
like, if, if someone wanted togo get a beer, you take them to
(14:06):
go get a beer, you know, ofcourse, within reason, and
you're making sure everyone'ssafe and it's legal and all of
that, or, like, for example, youknow, wanting to go like if
someone like one of the clientsthat I didn't work with, but you
know, he wanted to go to a stripclub. And so the staff supported
him in that as you know, like,it's like, you know, the thing
(14:31):
is, everyone is everyone washuman, has desires and needs and
most people have sexual needsand sexual desires and romantic
needs and romantic desires. AndI think keeping in mind you
know, really talking to yoursibling about what what are they
looking for, because some peoplemight just want a cuddle buddy,
(14:54):
someone might want someone toget married to like, there's
such a range of whatrelationships can Be. So I
think, I guess step one isreally talking to your sibling.
Because it's so easy, I know formyself to want to interject with
my opinions of who this personshould be, and, and what they
should be like. And, you know,at the end of the day, it's not,
(15:17):
it's not about, it's not up tome or my wants or needs. For
him. It's what my brother wantsand needs. And then I think,
going back to my, my previousjob, I was mentioning, what I
loved about this particularclient I worked with Is she
really had a framework,supported by her family, where
she was really in a community.
And she was able to participatein you know, like acting
(15:43):
classes, and just things thatdefinitely were, you know,
related to having privilege,there was definitely an element
of that. But there are communityspaces and organizations out
there for people with, you know,intellectual and developmental
(16:04):
disabilities. So I think part ofit is also seeking out those
spaces where people can meet newpeople. And that's like, my man
might be the hilight on with mybrother, because I'm like, you
have to go out in person becausehe's like, I just want to meet
people on Tik Tok and Instagram,like, Okay, that's great. But
like, that also leads to lots ofrobots, which we're discovering,
(16:25):
and not real people or scammers,which is a whole other, you
know, scary thing. So, I guess,you know, it's really tuning
into what are the resourcesavailable for you and your
sibling? You know, what's yoursibling looking for? And what
are they willing to do to kindof explore this?
(16:48):
Thanks. Yeah, that's soundadvice. Thank you. So I'm sure a
lot of people who have alreadyseen the video are asking
themselves like, so how is Shawndoing? Is he still dating? Is he
continuing to get out there? Ifso, how has your support role in
the process changed if at allover time?
(17:10):
Yeah, so Shawn has, in thebeginning, there were still some
people that were kind ofreplying to the, I guess, kind
of like posting about, you know,looking for a date for him. And,
but no one kind of sparked hisinterest. So I still kind of
played the messenger, I guess,of, you know, being like, hey,
(17:32):
what about this person, and, andthe funny thing was, um, he, he
is he loves to draw, and my momhelped him print some of his
drawings on to T shirts. And wetalked about this in the video.
So he has some tricks that hesells. And they're these really
fun characters. And, you know,it's really very creative.
(17:55):
Almost like Picasso, he. Butwhat happened was that actually
a lot of people started buyinghis church. So then he, yeah,
and so which is great. And so hekind of then got focused on the
short selling part, and kind ofwas, like less interested in
these virtual dates. I thinkpart of it is that's the other
(18:17):
thing, right? Is it's virtual.
And that makes it harder toengage, and, you know, harder to
kind of really connect. And so Ithink while we're still kind of
in these COVID times, he's beena little bit more just focused
on selling shirts. Yeah. But Iguess I think I, it feels like
(18:38):
my role has definitely been, Iguess, I don't know, it takes up
less of my time, right to kindof weed through people that are
reaching out. But now it's moreof navigating just the internet
space with him. That's kind ofbecome a whole other battle. I
(19:02):
guess. That?
Yeah, pretty trending right now.
So it really is. And it's notsomething that I was that
conscious of in terms of, like,the specifics with which I've
had to my parents, you know,give us had to talk to my
(19:25):
brother about what to say whatnot to say what to do, what not
to do. You know what informationyou can give to people it's
there's so much nuance that weare all you know, we all kind of
pick up naturally when we don'thave disabilities that kind of
effect that type of reasoning.
And so there have beenconversations that we've had to
(19:45):
have where it's like, Man, Ireally didn't think I had to
have that conversation with you.
But here we are. Yeah, and soyou know, that's, that's a space
that is so new To write relativeto just life, that there's a
there's a lot that needs tostill be addressed in terms of
(20:06):
Internet safety.
Yeah. As you mentioned, for somepeople, the point of dating is
leading to a fulfilling romanticrelationships, sexual
experiences, and in some cases,even marriage. These are all
huge considerations. So let'sstart with relationships. What
advice or resources? Would youhave to share to talking about
(20:30):
your sibling about arelationship and how to get
there?
Man? That's a great question. Soa lot of the work I do as a
relationship coach is focusedaround communication. And so I
guess I'll just harp on thatwhere it's, you know, like,
really, really explicitlytalking about things I think, is
(20:54):
really important. In general,like, we really like to assume
we know what someone's thinking.
And that often gets people introuble, because there's
misunderstandings and then, youknow, suddenly you're fighting
with your partner about who'sgonna clean the dishes, when
that like, wasn't even the bigissue. So I think all with our
(21:15):
siblings, if there's, especiallyif there's developmental delay,
it's so important to be reallyexplicit. And really clear, I
think about what being in arelationship can look like, kind
of going back to talking to themabout what they want, what
(21:39):
they're looking for. I thinkthat it's, you kind of have to
break it down for your sibling,you know, and I think a sibs are
really good at that. Right? Wewe've, most of us have had to
learn how to really simplifythings and break them down in a
step by step process, when mostpeople kind of like don't really
(22:02):
think about it. So So I guess,you know, depending on where
your sibling is at, and whattheir needs are, like a lot of
it's patience and being beingwilling to talk about the
uncomfortable stuff toface. Yeah. Speaking of
uncomfortable, the next one isthe big awkward one. For most
siblings, sex. A lot of siblingsare lucky enough to have parents
(22:24):
or therapists or other supportstaff who can address this topic
with our siblings. However, someof us have to just dive in and
talk to our siblings about itourselves. Have you ever had to
have this conversation? And whatadvice might you have with for
any sibling who's preparing tohave that conversation with
their sibling with a disability?
(22:46):
Yeah, um, I have been lucky inthat my parents have mostly
tackled the really awkward sexconversations. But I've also
kind of been a part of them attimes. I mean, again, I think
part of it is being explicit.
You know, we, we don't like tosay words like penis and vagina.
(23:08):
Like, it makes everyone giggle.
But like, nobody, you know, sexthat is so awful in general in
just like regular education, butmost people with IDD actually
aren't even included in sex ed.
Yeah. Right. And so I actuallyjust came across a video series
(23:32):
that is specifically talkingabout sex. And it's kind of like
a mini sex ed course. That is bypeople with IDD. And for
people's it is really great. AndI will have to find out where
that is and get that to you. Ithink, you
(23:53):
know, yeah, I think it's the oneby startech and AUCD. We have it
up on sibling leadership.org Inour self advocacy resources
page, towards the bottom. I willput a link to that in the
episode description as well.
Amazing, amazing. Yes, youalready have it great. Yeah, I
(24:14):
mean, that video series, I feltlike was just really well done.
broke things down, didn't makeit shameful. Like, that's a big
thing is, you know, people,people feel awkward talking
about sex, and it can makepeople feel defensive, or, you
know, shame people aroundcertain things. And I think they
(24:36):
do such a good job of justexplaining things as they are.
And so I guess that yeah, thatwould be my recommendation is
maybe watch that with a siblingor you know, tell them to watch
it and you watch it separatelyand then you can kind of have a
conversation about any questionsthey have. Because there's a
just from a research perspectivewith media. There's a lot more
(25:00):
integration that can happen whenyou can process. It's called co
viewing, right? With children,it's often viewed as parent and
children co viewing. And whenyou're a parent, and you can
watch something with your childand talk about it, it really
helps them integrate thelessons. And I think that
applies with, you know, oursiblings as well.
Yeah, my sister is actuallycurrently watching that series
(25:20):
with her therapist, and she'sthoroughly enjoying it. So
that's awesome. I can'trecommend it highly enough. Um,
so let's go into that last bit.
Let's talk about marriage. Haveyou ever imagined your brother
getting married? As a sibling ofa person with a disability? How
do you think we process the ideaof marriage differently than
most people? And how does thisimpact how we support our
(25:44):
siblings who want to pursue amarriage?
That's, I think, a very deepquestion. And, yeah, I think,
you know, it makes me emotionalto talk about because, like I've
said, my brother's always wantedto date. And he has always
(26:06):
expressed, wanting those thingsthat we kind of, as a society,
deem as these milestones, right?
You know, as someone in thequeer community, marriage is
less of a thing that is kind ofas it's there's, there's a lot
of normalcy around just beingpartnership partners for life,
right without having to put thepatriarchal stamp on it. So I
(26:29):
also have kind of an interestinglens with that, but at the same
time, I was, you know, I wasraised straight, as most of us
are. So I still have a lot ofkind of, you know, ideas of
marriage, for myself, and I'mstill really kind of trying to
(26:50):
break down what that means forme and my relationship. And I
really, I hope that my brotherfind someone that he can be
with, and whether that'smarriage, or just a life
partner, or just dating a lot ofdifferent people. But you know,
(27:13):
it's like, I want him to havethat connection. And I really
hope he gets to experience thatone day. And it is kind of a
bittersweet thing to thinkabout, because I don't know if
that will happen for him. And Ithink it's a lot easier. You
know, if you have a friend who'ssingle, and they're like, I'm so
I'm still single, and you know,it's easy to be like, Oh, you'll
(27:36):
find someone and, and, and I dobelieve that, like, I really do
trust that like, you will findsomeone. But, you know, if I'm
being real with you, sibling tosibling, like, it's hard to
think about, like, maybe that'snot in the cards for him? I
don't know. So, you know, Iknow, people with a couple who
has, they both have Downsyndrome, and they're married,
(28:01):
and they are pretty dependent.
And so, you know, for the mostpart, they are doing the, quote,
normal thing around marriage.
And I think that's reallypossible for lots of different
people with varyingdisabilities. And I think it's
kind of one of those thingswhere, I guess, I haven't had, I
(28:22):
haven't yet had to talk aboutwhat the commitment of marriage
means, right? Like, I'm evenstill thinking about that for
myself. So I've, I have yet to,like fully process that for my
brother. But I guess, you know,it just kind of depends on, you
know, and the legal part I don'teven know much about in terms of
(28:45):
like legally if, if someone whois a dependent gets married,
like, you know, who's in chargeof what? So I guess, step one
for me, like, I'll just givemyself some advice would be like
understanding that. And then,you know, saying, like, how does
marriage fit in? Is it about thepiece of paper? Or is it about
the act of you know, celebratingsomeone's love? Is it more about
(29:08):
just like having a reception, amarriage type ceremony? I don't
know. So I guess part of that islike, choose, get to choose your
own adventure. And you know, ifyour sibling find someone that
they want to commit to these twoin these ways, like, see what
that looks like, see if thatmakes sense for you know, all
(29:29):
the people who have to supportas well. And I think you have to
go from there.
Makes sense? Yeah. Thank you.
Um, so what impact might beingpart of the LGBTQ A plus
community or being a person ofcolor have on dating for our
siblings with disabilities? Andwhat comments? Can you share
(29:53):
with any siblings who are makingthat part of their dating
conversation?
Being Part of the queercommunity. And being a person of
color for me, has greatly been apart of just my learning about
myself and my self expression,as I've mentioned earlier, and I
(30:13):
think that, and I don't know,because like I'm thinking about
some people with disabilities,that I know who like really
don't give a crap. Like who youlove, right? Like, I feel like,
there's so much less judgement,I feel so much less judgement,
when I'm amongst people withvarious disabilities, like,
they're just like, yeah, yeah,you're you. I'm me, I'm this
(30:34):
way, I'm different in theseways, and you're you and you're
different in those ways, anddoesn't really matter. But I
guess part of it is like,there's an extra layer of social
conditioning, and things likethat, that we have to fight
through when we are queer, atleast for one. Since we live in
(30:56):
a very heteronormative world,and then being a person of
color, I think that's always apart, you know, it's usually a
more apparent part of someone'sidentity, and one that is kind
of been integrated in theirlife, probably their whole
lives. I guess the big thing is,if you don't identify as part of
the LGBTQI plus community, andyour sibling does, being
(31:20):
sensitive to that, to what thatmeans, and not assuming that you
know, what their experiences,right? I mean, I think that can
be said with everything is like,we as the sibs tend to feel like
we know ourselves the best,which we often do. But that
doesn't mean that we know what'sbest, even though I like to
think that. And I think itreally is just important to, to
(31:44):
come in with an open mind andreally talk to yourself and try
and understand what theirexperience is, and see how you
can best support that.
Nice. Alright, so lastly, justto kind of wrap everything up,
in your opinion, how can we assiblings do a good job of
supporting our siblings lovelife? In balancing our own life?
(32:07):
What advice would you have toany sibling feeling a little
burnt out on dating orconsidering just giving up on
love?
Oh, yeah, I mean, like Imentioned earlier, that boundary
of, you know, self care and, anddoing the things I need to for
myself and, and helping out, mysibling, my brother, it's when
(32:28):
I, it really ebbs and flows forme. And I think a lot of that
comes down to me getting to knowmyself a lot better, me learning
how to tune in, and, you know,feel like, I can recognize where
my anxiety is coming from if I'mexperiencing anxiety. And I
(32:48):
really like this idea I was, Iwas working with a client
recently, and we were talkingabout this imagery of having
thick boundaries, right. So it'skind of like, it's, I think we
often think of a boundary, it'slike this like line that you
just like, you can go acentimeter too far, and then
you've just crossed it. Butinstead of having this kind of
image of this, like thick,almost like cushy boundary,
(33:10):
where there's room to ebb andflow, where it's like,
sometimes, you know, you mightbe able to give more, and
support your sibling more. Andthen there might be a season
where you really have to focuson yourself. And that's okay.
And that's so important.
Because, you know, we hear thisall the time of like, you can't
support other people and untilyou help yourself, but like, I
heard that my whole life, I hadno idea what that really meant
(33:32):
for the longest time. But nowthat I actually understand what
that looks like, it really is soimportant. Like I, I just get
frustrated with my brother and Iget snappy with my brother, if
I'm not aligned with myself. Andso those are signals to me like,
okay, okay, hold on, like, maybetake a step back, like, go tune
in, check in with yourself, dowhat you need to do do the self
(33:56):
care. And then and let him know,like, in my case, I'm like, you
know, Hey, buddy, like, I amreally just busy right now.
Like, let's circle back to thisnext week, like, can you give me
a call next week about thisspecific thing, we'll talk about
it then. And then some days,it's like, you know, we're
talking more daily or whateverit is. A big thing is really
learning how to tune intoyourself and recognize when your
(34:20):
boundary is being close to beingcrossed. And and thinking about
how do you set up thickboundaries, like in my case, I
don't live in the same city asmy brother. So it's not a thing
where he can just like come overor something like that. So that
it's more about, you know, ifhe's calling all the time, I
(34:41):
don't pick up every time thingslike that, you know, it's like
it's so funny because they feellike such simple things. But
they really are big and whenyou're used to picking up the
phone every time becausesomething might be wrong or
whatever it is. It's hard. It'shard to make those shifts. But
if you feel like you are So thisis a little bit of another
question. But if you as thesieve are feeling burnt out, you
(35:03):
know, definitely find ways youknow, work with a coach, work
with a therapist, to make surethat you have the tools to kind
of come back to your center. Sothat then you're able to support
your said, and then in terms ofour sibs feeling burnt out on
dating or considering giving upon love. I think that's such a
hard place, right? It's likeI've seen just in a brief
(35:27):
period, you know, my brother,still very young. But dating has
been hard for him. And so Ithink it's less about just like
giving up on love or whatnot.
But I think in those times,that's where you tune in Word,
or you tune to your turn to yourcommunity. Right? It's like, we
(35:52):
all really just want toexperience love and belonging.
And, yes, it's wonderful whenwhen we can find like a life
partner, or something like that.
And again, I'm also speaking invery monogamous terms, which
made us that's a whole otherconversation to go to non
monogamy or ethical nonmonogamy, but just want to
count, you know, that asteriskthere, but but, you know, we
(36:15):
want to experience love andbelonging, and we think that
that has to come from a romanticpartner, but it doesn't. I'm not
saying that people don't deservethat. I think everyone does, if
they want it.
But we also can give so much toourselves. And that's a lot of
(36:37):
the work that I've had to do.
And I continue to do for myself,and the work that I do with,
within my relationship coaching,where it's like, you know, we
often turn outwards, for thingsto fill to fill the holes in us,
when really, we should befilling those for ourselves. So
maybe, you know, if you arefeeling burnt out or feeling
(36:58):
like given up, you just take abreak, just take some time away
from focusing your energy intodating, if that doesn't feel
like it's giving you resultsthat you want, and turn towards
you know, what are your hobbiesthat you love? What really
lights you up? what friends doyou have that you can spend time
with Thor, you know, and COVIDsafely, of course, and these
(37:19):
times? And, you know, I thinkcoming back to how do you give
yourself love can really, Ithink, recharge us right? And
then at some point, you might belike, oh, you know what, I feel
ready to try dating again. And Ialso have that experience where
as soon as I finally feel likeI've stopped focusing on
(37:42):
something right where I'm like,I've been trying to date and not
happening so fine. I'm gonna,I'm gonna finally give up. And
then some something comes along.
Right. So it's like, I feel likethat's such a common thing where
you're finally ready to justlike not give something any
energy, and then it just pops upinto your life. So I guess,
(38:04):
yeah, I think maybe it's just abalancing act of giving yourself
that self love and then taking abreak and coming back to it just
when it feels right for you.
Nice. Yeah, that's great advice.
Thank you so much. So all theresources that you've mentioned
today, I will make sure to putinto the episode description, as
well as a link to our COVIDResources page so that you can
(38:29):
get out there and be safe.
Sheena, it has been an absolutepleasure. Very awesome. Thank
you so much for joining ustoday. This has been a great
conversation.
Thank you so so much for havingme and thank you for having this
conversation. We need moreconversations like this. So
thank you.
Find resources, tools andinformation about the sibling
(38:50):
experience on sibling leadershipdot board. The sibling
Leadership Network is anonprofit and we rely on support
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