December 28, 2024 • 43 mins
How the Blue Zones Lifestyle Can Help You Live Longer
Welcome to the first episode of the Mini Series about Wellness – with Celine Vadam, Founder of WE (I) Think and Blue Zones Expert.
In this episode of The Social Hotelier Show, host Sam-Erik Ruttmann engages with wellness expert Celine Vadam, to explore the transformative world of wellness in hospitality.
Celine shares her extensive travels and experiences in developing hotel wellness concepts, including the innovative Blue Zones retreats that focus on lifestyle principles from regions known for longevity.
The conversation delves into
Blue Zones are areas where people live the longest due to lifestyle choices.
The Blue Zones retreats focus on lifestyle coaching rather than lectures.
The importance of self-discovery during retreats
Participants often return to multiple retreats, fostering community.
Wellness retreats today are fragmented and lack coherence.
Partnerships can enhance wellness offerings but must be relevant to the market.
Certification can add credibility to wellness concepts but should not be a marketing gimmick.
Wellness is about the overall guest experience, not just spa services.
Local culture and community play a vital role in wellness retreats.
Lifestyle changes take time and require support from peers.
The alignment of wellness offerings with modern traveler needs,
The role of partnerships and certifications in enhancing credibility and effectiveness in wellness concepts.
Post any questions you may have about Wellness to Email. sameriks@gmail.com- Write in the Subject line: WELLNESS QUESTION.
We will answer the questions and give you a shout-out during one of the episodes.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So I've been working with Blue Zones for
2 years now in creating
a retreat product that's, like an in immersion
on Blue Zones lifestyle.
So for people who don't know Blue Zones,
it's,
like, blue zones first,
are areas in the world where people live
the longest.
(00:20):
So where there's a high concentration of centenarians.
And these areas are located in Sardinia,
in Ikaria,
Greece,
Sardinia, Italy, sorry, in Okinawa,
in Japan,
in Loma Linda in California
in the US, and in Nicoya Peninsula in
Costa Rica.
(00:41):
And it started with the explorations
of these areas.
And then from this exploration,
Dan Wigner, who was the the explorer,
started to like, he brought a team of
researchers
and scientists to him. And they found out
that,
these places actually, like,
(01:04):
it's not genetics really that define that we
are living longer, it's their lifestyle.
And they found, like, even if these places
were spread out around the world, they found
similarities
in the core values and their core lifestyle.
And so I thought, okay.
Like, how do we
use these lifestyle principles
(01:25):
and implement them into US cities? It's from
the US. And so that
Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Social Hotelier
Show with me, Samirik Ruthman,
where we explore the intersection of hospitality,
humanity, and technology.
Today, we are diving deep into the transformative
world of wellness with a trailblazer in the
(01:45):
industry, Celine Vadam.
Celine is the founder of WeThink, a forward
thinking consultancy dedicated to wellness, environment, and innovation.
With a wealth of experience spanning global collaborations,
luxury wellness retreats, and groundbreaking sustainability
initiatives,
Celine has redefined how we think about well-being
in the hospitality
sector.
From working with prestigious wellness brands to spearheading
(02:08):
Blue Zone inspired retreats, she's at the forefront
of the shaping experiences that nourish the body,
mind, and planet.
In this episode, we'll uncover Celine's journey, her
passion for meaningful collaborations,
and her vision for the future of wellness
and hospitality.
From integrating certifications like WIL to crafting,
interesting,
collaborations with health experts, Celine will share insights
(02:30):
that are inspiring as they are actionable.
So whether you're a hotelier, wellness enthusiast, or
someone, like, curious about creating aspects,
spaces that foster true well-being, this is an
episode you won't want to miss.
Welcome, Selena. Thanks for joining us today. Thank
you, Samirik, for having me. Well, we have
had few of this episode in the past,
and I'm always intrigued about the new
(02:53):
information you are sharing because you're really living
the wellness
trend and also what is going on in
the demand and and and hot buttons of
wellness. And
I'm particularly realizing that you've been traveling so
much during this year, and I would really
like to learn a little bit about what
has your year been like and how does
(03:14):
it relate to the different retreats you are
doing?
Yeah, I've traveled a lot today. I literally
did like,
went around the, around the globe, like literally
like I, I started like in,
in Azores in Portugal,
went all the way to Asia, the US,
and then came back to
Greece, Italy, UK, and back to Portugal. So
(03:36):
it was like literally.
And, yeah, my year has been good. Thank
you for asking.
It's been a very interesting year because,
so we've we think,
I'm working on
hotel development projects, like wellness concept for,
(03:58):
new hotel development
and also renovations.
And,
we've just opened the Four Seasons in Rabat,
Morocco.
So I worked on the wellness concept for
that hotel, and, it's quite interesting how things
comes back around because
that's one of the first projects
I worked on when I was working with
Four Seasons in development.
(04:20):
So it was very cool to work on
it again this time as a consultant.
And now, like, going there a few months
ago to
see it finally
open. So I really followed the full process
on this project. So it's always very exciting.
And the spa is really wonderful, so I'm
very excited for people to see it. And
(04:40):
then we launched with Blue Zones Blue Zones
Retreats.
So I've been working with Blue Zones for
2 years now in creating
a retreats product that's, like an in immersion
on Blue Zones lifestyle.
So for people who don't know Blue Zones,
it's,
like, blue zones first,
(05:02):
are areas in the world where people live
the longest,
so where there's a high concentration of centenarians.
And these areas are located in Sardinia,
in Ikaria,
Greece,
Sardinia, Italy, sorry, in Okinawa in Japan,
in Loma Linda in California in the US,
(05:22):
and in Nicoya Peninsula
in Costa Rica.
And it started with the explorations
of these areas.
And then from this exploration,
Dan Whitner, who was the the explorer,
started to like, he brought a team of
researchers
and
scientists with him, and they found out that,
(05:46):
these places actually, like,
it's not genetics really that define that they
are living longer. It's their lifestyle.
And they found, like, even if these places
were spread out around the world, they found
similarities
in the core values and their core
lifestyle.
And so I thought, okay. Like, how do
(06:06):
we
use these lifestyle principles
and implement them into US cities. It's from
the US. And so that's what we've been
doing,
for, like, around 20 years,
through books, through, like, a Netflix documentary
that was released last year,
and there's also through like work in
(06:28):
like more than 70 communities in the US.
And the idea was to make it
accessible
in a different
way, like in a different format
to places
around the world,
and that's how, like, Blue Zones retreats came
to life.
So the idea was to put together the
(06:48):
the content
and the lifestyle principle
from
the the blue zones,
power 9 principle and the blue zones research
and turn it into
like a lifestyle coaching
retreat.
So and yeah. And it's really that. It's
really like, it's not a lecture. I'm not
sitting people down with PowerPoint
(07:10):
to,
you know, like, give them, like, numbers. And,
it's really like
a lifestyle coaching. We have,
like, exercises,
sharing, journaling,
and,
it's
we have some activities. So every retreat is
different depending on the location
because we are doing like activities,
(07:31):
local activities. Like in
in Costa Rica, we went to visit
a a local farm,
and we had the the grandmother, the abuela,
doing
tortillas and making us breakfast.
We had some treks in the jungle.
In
Okinawa, we
did some Okinawan karate. We did,
(07:54):
a cooking class,
like, in the local market.
We went to we did we had, like,
we made this,
like grandmother
who is she's got, I don't know, like
so many flowers that she's growing in her
garden.
And,
she's,
like infusing them in oil.
(08:15):
And, like, she was there with, like, 50
bottles of the oil infused
flowers
with to make, like, some body
body, like, body oil.
And she's starting going to the gym because
she's so she's,
using, like, spring water for her flowers.
And she was getting because she's getting older,
(08:37):
she was getting a bit weaker,
and she couldn't carry the, like, the gallons
she was, like, carrying to get the spring
water. So she's starting going to the gym
to lift weight to be able to
to carry this gallon. So I found this
story super, yeah, super interesting.
So it's also about meeting people, meeting
(08:59):
local people,
and,
really connecting with the location
and Well, that's Luzun's principles. Yeah. Yeah. I
mean, that's really, I have, of course, followed
you,
when you travel and I was right. The
message is I really envy you and I
wish I would be there doing an episode
with you wherever you are because you but
you're now describing
(09:20):
some of these places that you are visiting,
Costa Rica and and in Japan and so
forth. I mean, that those are very
interesting things for,
even though one not being in a wellness
enthusiast, but just simply for the curiosity,
and to learn something new about how people
are living in a different place. But that's
really nice, nice things to see. I I
(09:42):
when I ask people, oh, have you heard
of Blue Zone? I think there is,
just what everyone have who has heard about
Blue Zone,
and because it caught on,
in the in the media and also
thanks to the,
streaming of or the mini series on on
Netflix. It became very, very popular. And then
I said, oh, now Celine is doing this.
(10:04):
I'm really in envy or envying her now
that she has really the chance and admiring
that it fits into what you're doing in
terms of so wellness.
And the people who are joining these Mhmm.
Wellness retreats,
are they
they're similar people, or is it almost like
a same group who's going from place to
place, or are they just different every time?
(10:25):
So we only done, like, a a couple
so far.
Yeah. But we actually have, like, people who
who came to a retreat in, so we
don't we did 4. We did,
Costa Rica,
Okinawa, and so Japan, and we did,
2 with Modern Elder Academy,
(10:45):
1 in San Jose and 1 in, in
Mexico.
And so so
but we had them and actually, like, some
participants from Japan wants to come to the
one we're doing next year, well, in 2025
in Thailand,
and someone from Santa Fe wants to go
to Costa Rica.
So I think that as we grow
(11:08):
the product and we have more location,
we will have more returning guests,
because it's always like at the end of
the day, what I always say is that
the blue zones lifestyle principles are not complicated,
but they are impactful and they are also,
like, flexible enough to be interpreted
(11:31):
how how you want to. And, you know,
like,
there's a principle of,
moving naturally. So
in,
Quina, it's a lot of gardening.
In Costa Rica,
it's like riding your horse in, you know,
like, deepening on the the place down shifting
the same, you know, the principle
(11:52):
of, like, relaxing and taking taking some time
some downtime.
And that could be like
meditation
or gardening again or taking a walk or
doing some arts and crafts or
dancing.
So there are so many different ways
to integrate these principles and that's really what
we're doing with the participants when we are
(12:15):
doing these Blue Zones modules
is reflecting together, like, taking this time actually
to reflect together on
how would that look like into your life.
You know? Downshifting
is can be actually is is a really
simple one and everybody agrees that
stress is bad and we need to slow
down and but it's actually very triggering for
(12:36):
people to
put it down, you know, and say, okay.
Like, I'm committed to downshift by doing
this thing, like,
every day or every week. It's it's a
it's a very triggering one, especially in North
America.
It's a that's also something interesting to see,
like, what are the different,
like, health and wellness or lifestyle preoccupation
(12:58):
in the different areas of the world,
and, like, what
principles are more, like, triggering
for
for, like, people. It's quite it's quite fascinating.
Yeah. So in one way, this is part
of also about the place for self discovery.
And what have you noticed? I mean, just
(13:19):
can you give some examples what you have
noticed in people now there when you see
it for the first time and then they're
in the program, do you sense that there's
a self discovery element and how they react
to something,
that they
haven't seen before or experienced before?
Totally.
And
I think that the these principles are not
(13:39):
new,
but
they are not new to people, especially people
who are familiar with the blue zones. But
what's new and impactful is
really, like, taking the time to
to
reflect on them
and doing so, like, in an environment where
you are really, like, cocooned in these hotels.
(14:04):
You are, like, immersed in the Blue Zones
lifestyle, and, like, you are supported by other
people who also want to
make lifestyle changes,
who wants to be more present for their
families and loved ones,
who wants to take better care of themselves
and their health. So you're in this really,
like,
(14:26):
like, closed an environment, this container
where you really
are supported.
And that sometimes, you know, like, something
that that's something that makes the difference
because sometimes you have people who wants to,
like, implement lifestyle changes, but it's very hard
for them to find support
(14:46):
at home or, like, in their friends group
or in their work environment
to make these changes because
you changing
means, you know, like, it can be triggering
to other people. Like, are you you're doing
that. I'm not doing it. Like, you know,
like, does it make me bad not doing
it? Or, like and so, like, sometimes the
(15:08):
the difficult part for,
like,
starting, like, lifestyle changes is is your environment,
your physical environment,
your emotional
environment, your support system.
And so, like,
this really helps put all these different
aspects
into perspective.
(15:30):
And, we also start by basic assessment
to to see, like, where people are in
each areas,
like, in each life's drug principles of the
blue zones. So then you can fine tune,
you know, like, where do you want to
or, like, what do you want to work
on first?
Yeah. Yeah. But also, I can imagine it
(15:51):
also has a sense of responsibility
to the to the team and yourself who
are
running these, retreats
because you have somebody who might be in
a very, very vulnerable state and their self
discovery and how you can support them and
and also to help the other people to
support that person so they are feel a
they are in a safe place.
(16:13):
Exactly. And, I, like, I really love seeing
that, you know, like, seeing the group. Because
I I see it, like,
like, day after day, like, seeing the the
group, like, like,
structure and, like, get tied together.
And also people, like,
you know, like, opening up and, like, really,
(16:33):
like, blossoming and glowing, like, day after day.
Like, it's really I I think we should
take one picture,
you know, like when people arrive and when
they leave, because it's really, you really see
it,
on their faces.
Yeah. You can, you can really speed it
and see it
and have everybody's like urging each other towards
(16:55):
the end. So it's like a short period
of time, but it's it gets really it
goes really deep and personal.
And, I'm really happy when I have, like,
participants
telling me that,
like, they've been, they're still in contact together.
They put they organize a WhatsApp group and
(17:15):
they call each other. They have a group
call every week. And,
so it's it's very, like,
very powerful. It's
working.
Wonderful. Wonderful.
I'm I'm so glad glad to hear that.
And I also I think the audience will
resonate
to what you are saying.
So we're just sort of taking it in
in one step into the direction. How do
(17:37):
you see the concept of these blue zone
trees aligning with the demands of wellness travelers?
Because I think there has been over the
years,
where people are people have been traveling for
wellness, I mean, for centuries. So there's there's
nothing new about it. But if you're looking
at the the modern, like, stressful life people
have, the mental issues, and so on, how
do you see these retreats aligning
(17:58):
with what the people need, today when they
go to the street retreats?
I think that the Blue Zones retreats, like,
compared to over, like, today, like the retreat
sector
is very fragmented.
And like, it's really like all over the
place. There's
everything everywhere.
(18:18):
It's harder though to find unless you really
know the instructor
to
know, like, what's the quality of the content
you're gonna have, what's the quality of the
instruction.
And I have to say, like,
the number of followers on Instagram doesn't guarantee
a good,
like, a good quality retreat,
and it's different to
(18:40):
have people for class, you know, like a
1 hour class
even if it's every day
versus having, like, leading a group of people
of people through, like,
transformational
changes and through, like, a structured,
a structured program.
And so I think, like, first,
one of the big,
(19:02):
like,
advantage and alignment to the current market that
Blue Zones Richards
has
is that all the
the content
is backed up by these 20 years of
research,
from by scientists
and researchers,
and it's research on lifestyle and longevity.
(19:23):
So all these so you have the the,
like, scientific bag up from all of these
in the program.
So that's really like, like, people wants you,
like, there's so much
content out there. Like, it's hard to know
what's true, what's not true. So you already
have the,
(19:44):
yeah, you already have this certification
of of that, like, the scientific,
like, background.
And then you also have the,
you also have the the fact that we
are select carefully also the venues
while we are doing the retreat.
So we are working with,
with properties
(20:04):
that will reflect the Blue Zones lifestyle and
environment.
Really wonderful
people. Like, the properties we we worked with
are really, yeah, really amazing,
in cost in both Costa Rica and Okinawa,
actually, like,
the employees are amazing. And the it was
(20:25):
funny, like, in in Nicoya, in Costa Rica,
like, to talk with the employees,
and,
they were saying, yeah. Actually, my my grandpa
is
103.
And in my village, like, 10 people are
more than her 100 years old. And so
they also really, like, you're really immersed in
the Blue Zone location and similar in Okinawa
(20:47):
as well. Like when you go to these
places, you really,
it's hard to explain, but you really feel
like, okay. Like,
I get, you know, like, the that this
atmosphere
atmosphere
is really, like,
fostering people's well-being.
And,
and so and I think also, like,
(21:08):
another way to align is that it's not
you you go on holidays. You want to
learn. You want to, yes, like,
make lifestyle changes
or, like, do something for your health and
wellness.
But
you
during the retreat, you also do some sightseeing
and you learn about the place and the
(21:29):
culture and the people. You you have this
authentic side, like,
you know, like meeting with the local people.
You also have, like, the
the fact that you meet like minded people.
So it's a group of people that
you might not see after the retreat, but
(21:49):
lots of changes chances are that you're gonna
like each other and, you know, keep in
touch, so making new friends.
And it's not restrictive. So we're not putting
you on a diet. The food is absolutely
delicious.
But we're eating, it's not like we're not
doing intense workouts.
So it's still a holiday. You know, like
(22:11):
some of the places, like of the wellness
retreat,
some of them are more like,
hardcore.
And so it can be, like, very restrictive.
It's very,
resource oriented.
You need to lose
X number of kilos, or you need to
run a, put on a diet, or you
(22:32):
have a series of exams that you,
or like checkups to do. So this is
not that, like, this is more like,
like a softer version.
And we also, like,
it's also things that you can take home.
So it's not, you know, like the fix
quick fix retreat that you do for 1
week.
(22:53):
It's it's more like, that's that's also why
I think we're gonna have more and more
repeat guests
to, you know, to see, like, how it's
done in another location, but also
how it's done
in another season.
You know, like, what are my the progress
I've made compared to the last retreat
(23:13):
and,
because lifestyle changes take time. It's not something
that you just, like,
snap and then,
boom, it's integrated and it takes time. So,
that's also where the the difference is. You
go home with some
things to set up, and you have the
accountability
(23:33):
of the of the group and the the
friends group that you've created
to support you in that.
Very good. Well, for for all of you
listeners and viewers, if you have any questions,
I will put at the end of the
this episode where you can ask questions because
I think it raises, I'm sure, ideas and
questions you will have for Celine.
(23:55):
So,
please feel feel free to write any questions
you have
about the the topic that, we just described.
And, also, if you're listening into the
podcast, Apple Podcast, put in your comment there
or in YouTube, write in your comments there.
So we are very happy to respond to
you, and that also gives a chance to,
(24:16):
even answer those questions,
in another episode.
Okay. So that was
wonderful ideas about and, experience that you have
in running the retreats, the blues and retreats.
So let's talk a little bit about, partnerships.
So what role do you believe
partnerships live with entity entities like Clinique Del
Lepre or
(24:36):
celebrity trainers
can play in redefining
wellness offerings,
for, like, the modern consumers?
Yeah. So that's a very
interesting question because and that's also includes, like,
the Blue Zones retreats, like,
hotels wants
to have a better and, like, more attractive
(24:57):
wellness offering.
Like, how many times do I have people
coming and saying they have a, like, super
innovative
wellness concept and they're gonna do something that
no one's ever seen and they're gonna be
the only one. And then I look at
it and I'm like, yeah, I've seen that,
like, a hundred times already. Thank you.
(25:17):
And so, like, so it's it's
and also, like, I would add that,
it's also something that,
you know, like, remember, like, how FNB was,
like, a few years back
where
hoteliers were not
restaurateurs. They were not FNB people,
(25:38):
and it was hard to get some really
cool FNB concept at hotels.
Now, like, you have some really cool FNB
concept
and some really, really successful hotel restaurants that
are are, like, very successful and very attractive
to the local
people too.
So I think we are at the same
(25:59):
kind of era with wellness
where hotels
right now don't know how to make cool
wellness,
like, experiences and cool spas.
And,
they try to like, there's a lot of
copy paste, like, okay, let's put a pool,
a sauna,
(26:19):
steam room. And so they they are like
these tick boxes.
And using, like, partnerships
right now,
it's the same as using third parties when,
you know, like, with f and b, like,
a few years back. So it's the the
quick fix. You know? Let's use let's use
let's use a name. Let's use,
(26:40):
like, a celebrity
something to help us.
And,
I would say, like, that solve that can
solve a part of the problem,
but that doesn't solve the overall problem because
it still doesn't help you.
Like,
like, I I'm taking the example of Clinique
La Prairie. Like, it would like, ahead of
(27:01):
time, I had that every time, you know.
I want to do a Clinique La Prairie
Spa or like a Charle and a sore
and I was, I think you don't because
it's it's a clinic. So it comes with
doctors. It comes with,
like, medical,
like, medical requirements,
legal issues. Like, there is a bunch of
(27:22):
things that,
as a hotel, you're not ready and you're
not equipped to deal with.
And so
I think it it doesn't take away
the the need for
hotels
to
think thoroughly about their wellness concept
to make something that's
relevant for their hotel and their market. So
(27:45):
it's not like and that that's the way,
like, wellness is approached these days. It's that,
oh, we have a few square meters.
They are, like, a few 100 square meters
that we can use for the spa, and
let's see what we can fit in there.
So, like, I'm taking the approach the other
way around saying, okay. What do you want
to provide as a wellness experience?
(28:07):
What wellness mean to you and to your
hotel? And from there, how much kilometers do
we really need?
What infrastructures
do we really need to make, like, a
coherent
and appealing
experience?
And so sometimes I see, like,
hotels with spas that are too small for
(28:27):
what they could do and they could offer,
but I also see spas that are far
too big for their market.
And so it goes like, it it goes
either ways.
And and,
and using
yeah. Going back to your initial question about
using brands,
again, it's something that can
that can help
(28:49):
to give credibility
to also, like, attract
outside
guests or, like, to create,
you know, like, you mentioned,
Clinique La Prairie
or celebrity,
like trainers.
It can also be working with us, like
a cosmetics brand, like
(29:10):
Guerlain or Espa.
So it it helps to it helps to
some extent, but I don't think it's
a, like,
cookie
cutter solution.
It really needs to depend. It really depends
on the
market, on the hotel, on the location
(29:30):
and on what's the objectives for wellness are.
Yeah. I mean, you're you're right. I like
your analogy about
how how, hotels,
with the food and beverage concepts and and
the hotels were not geared. They tried to
do getting a,
celebrity chef there and try to do a
concept and try to do franchising and then
(29:50):
which Erin, they know nothing about.
But now, I mean, the expectations
of of
hotelier is that you have one of the
key aspects besides sustainability
and and, marketing, if you will, is the
culinary excellence and that they partner themselves with
either they have a chef with them on
board, and they jointly create exactly something,
(30:11):
outstanding, which is,
suitable for the local environment where they can
use the local,
produce
products, local farmers, and create something which is
this is the only place where you can
get exactly this. We don't, you don't have
to import it,
thousands kilometers away. So I I like your
analogy and I can relate to that while
(30:31):
we speak about how it
should be working. I could be working in,
in the wellness aspects. Yeah.
Yeah. And the same, you know, like a
few years back, F and B was a
tick box, you know, we need to have
a restaurant to have the store.
Spa is the same, you know. We need
to have a gym. We need to have
a spa. And when I talk about wellness,
(30:52):
it's the, the spa, but it's also the
gym. Like how many times I scream when
I see the gym? I'm like, why
all these machines? Like, no one knows how
to
use, like, half of them. There's no coherence
in the in the, like, in how and
why they have been chosen.
So and and it could save, actually, like,
(31:13):
a lot of money to owners
to
like, it could make them a lot like,
money to have
a, like,
well
constructed,
well thought thought through, wellness concept, but it
can also save them money from, like, you
know, like, building things that are not used,
(31:34):
like ISOSPA, like, building, like, beautiful
Turkish hamam with all the marble and beautiful.
No one wants to go there because it's
not the market for it. Yeah. It's in
a tropical place, and no one wants to
go to a Turkish hamam in this location.
They want to have something more local.
So, yeah, could have saved them a lot
(31:56):
of
money. Very good. Well, but you must have
done with the 4 seasons in in in
Rabat.
You incorporate
the local,
way of doing a spaza and rejuvenating
treatments. So it actually fits the environment, right?
Yeah. So when working on this project,
(32:16):
I digged into
the
traditional Islamic and Arabic medicine,
which is very similar to Chinese medicine or
Ayurveda. So it's like the
the, like, North Africa or, like,
Middle East
version of it.
And, also, like, to Moroccan,
(32:37):
like, traditions,
so we have 2 beautiful hammams,
like, Moroccan hammams with, like, a scrubbing room
and, like, massage tea like, massage room and,
like,
like, a steam room, but
the steam room in the Moroccan hamam is
not as
it's not, like, steamy, like, so steamy. For
(32:58):
you, you can't see anything.
That's also a difference. Like, people don't know
that the a steam room,
A Moroccan hamam and a Turkish hamam are
completely different things.
So we have, yeah, like, a male and
a female section. And, also, the
the so the gym we worked with, Harley
Pasternak, is a celebrity
(33:20):
trainer in LA. I worked with him before,
and, so we build the gym together,
and, like, selecting the machines.
And the idea was to really create, like,
a circuit,
where people can know, you know, like,
you know, what's the,
sequencing
(33:40):
of the machines you're using.
And, also, we worked on
linking that and this
physical and movement aspect
with the treatments at the spa.
And we're also, like, in Rabah, so we
are located next to the ocean.
So we integrated,
like, the the main pool has,
(34:02):
seawater
in it.
We have some,
so we have some water
experiences,
and we have,
we have also, like, a hot and cold
circuit
that goes, you know, like after your workout,
you go and you you have your sequencing
and your circuits
with the hot and cold therapy. And we
(34:24):
we went with,
like a a sauna with aromatic
herbs, like local. They they grow a lot
of rosemary on property.
So, like, having these aromatic herbs, we have
a steam room and we have a snow
room. So
you're getting the colds through
the the snow room, which is
(34:45):
still effective,
but not as harsh as a cold plunge.
So yeah. And you have also some, like,
jacuzzi with different temperatures
and some,
some hydrojets
in the pool. So and it despite really
like, it's really wow. Like, I worked with,
(35:05):
designers at a depot on that,
and we had calls
every single day, like, to, like, you know,
like, put the concept
together and, like, really working together on
not just the
the visual
part, but also the operational
part and make sure that
the
the guest journey is really well thought through,
(35:28):
that does
the treatment rooms, like, in each space
is very, like, functional
and easy to use from an operational
point of view and also from a guest
perspective.
Yeah. You should go and
and tell me what you think about it
when it makes sense. I'll I'll tell you.
(35:48):
We'll be surprised. I might be go there
because I I I love Morocco, and, we
may have a project lining up in Morocco
one of these days. So,
I've been to robot,
and and I know I know the 4
season has been a project that has been
going on for quite many years before it
actually finally opened, and it's I'm glad finally,
it has been
(36:10):
successfully open and, with the way you describe
the the wellness is,
sounds really,
maybe that's right to expression, but mouth watering
sounds very exciting and intriguing. So definitely have
to give it a try.
So, let's move on to the, maybe the
final questions for this episode,
which really relates to, there's so many wellness,
(36:31):
operators around and, then it's almost
feels like it's like a marketing tool, but
how can certification
like well or other wellness standards
generally impact credibility
and effectiveness of wellness concepts versus them being
perceived as mere marketing tools?
I think, again, you know, it goes back
(36:52):
to the concept of your property and, like,
your wellness concept,
because it can be very useful.
Like, the the well, like, well certification,
they have this product called well rooms,
and I've seen them we
we had them at the 4 Seasons in,
(37:14):
Beverly Hills
where a whole floor was converted into
a wellness floor. It's the the floor
where the pool and the gym are and
the spa are.
And so
these rooms were so the well rooms, they
have,
like, special,
air filtering system,
(37:36):
water filtering.
There's this
mirror that has, like, mood light.
It's using, like, specific,
hypoallergenic
fabrics,
like a healthy mini bar, healthy book. So
there's a lot of details into these rooms
to make them
well. And,
(37:56):
and the WEST certification,
like,
like, it it's
crazy. Like, there's a lot of a lot
a lot of research behind it
around air quality, noise quality, light quality,
food, movement, you know, like, how to design
spaces that encourage people to
(38:16):
socialize,
to
walk or, like, to move more,
to have, like, an environment that's
healthy, like, but not just,
but healthy, you know, in terms of the
the the noise and the light, the air,
like, really, like, all the aspects of it.
And,
(38:36):
yeah, it's it's it's been working really well
and it's, you know, like, they have some
some studies where it's actually help increase the
ADR
of these rooms, like, before and after being
transformed into well rooms.
One thing that I always wonder is, like,
if these are well room, why aren't
(38:58):
all the rooms
well rooms? Like, does it mean I'm not
gonna sleep well if I'm sleeping in a
non well room? But,
so, yeah, I would tend to say it
would be nice to have them all, like,
done like that because we have also done
some testing around, you know, how it helps
jet lag and, you know, like, sleeping better,
etcetera.
(39:19):
Yeah.
So, yeah, it it definitely helps, and it's
also like a certification
that's more
recognized now, and some owners actually require it
require it now.
The same way that certification
likely to, you know, like,
are used for sustainability.
(39:40):
So I think as, you know, has the
this kind of certification
are more
familiar with,
with the public,
they would be very
useful to
yeah. They would be very useful for for
guests to identify
what exactly is done outside of the spa
(40:01):
because,
yeah, wellness is not just what's happening
in the spines. Also, you know, like, the
overall,
guest experience,
where, like, you mentioned f and b before.
You know? Where is your
product sourced? You know, like, is are they
local? Are they seasonal?
Are we, do they have pesticide in them?
(40:22):
How is your sleep experience? So, again, you
know, like, the thing defining
what are your wellness pillars.
And, again, it's not breaking science. You know?
You need to sleep well, eat well,
move every day,
connect with people and socialize, and be able
to have some rest and me time. So
it's not like it's something
(40:43):
really,
like, like,
it's not complicated,
but
how do you integrate that at every single
touch point of your hotel
to create
a really,
a really authentic
and impactful
experience for your client.
So then you so you get this glow,
(41:04):
you know, like I was mentioning this glow
during the retreat.
How do you get that glow from your
client where you could take a picture when
the client arrives and when the client departs
and see like how, you know, how they
look more relaxed and more
happy and more, you know, like
excited and motivated?
(41:24):
Very good. Well, thank you, Selena.
We will look we will continue our discussion
in the world of wellness
and to our listeners.
Let me let us know what you'd like
to learn more about wellness and how it
would help you in your daily life. So
send the questions to us. You can write
to me, samericks@gmail.com,
and write in the subject line wellness questions,
(41:46):
and we will address those in our upcoming
episode.
So, Saleem, thank you very much again. I
as usual, I learned a lot what you
have you've been doing lately, and it's so
fantastic insights and congratulations on your
on the these retreats that you're doing. They
are, welcoming. So I can I can imagine
how you also
get a lot out of it, not only
(42:07):
the people who are joining in? Thank you.
I hope you can join 1 like this.
Like, for 2025
so far in the books, we have Costa
Rica again in February,
Thailand in May. So Costa Rica is at
the Andes,
in Peninsula Papagayo, in Main Thailand at Kamalaya,
and in October,
(42:28):
back to Okinawa,
the Alikulani
Hotel.
And we have also, like, over places that
will be announced soon. So, yeah, join.
Wonderful. Thank you.
Thank you. Okay. So
with this, Bert, we will,
we look forward that you all join us
in our next episode. So,
(42:50):
please subscribe to the YouTube channel or to
the
podcast,
channel and to know when we are coming
out live again. And also, I will post
this in in the LinkedIn.
And if you have if we haven't connected
with Celine or myself on LinkedIn, please do
so. That's where you hear when when when
the next episode is coming out. So thank
you for tuning in to The Social Hotelier.
(43:11):
If you enjoy the episode, please take a
moment to leave us a review. Give it
a thumbs up, and don't forget to hit
that subscribe button to stay updated.
We have incredible lineup of guests coming out
our way in in the future, but we
will now focus in next episode
on with,
wellness. And, so we'll look forward to have
a further discussion with
(43:31):
Celine about the the important aspects of wellness.
So until next time. See you again.
So I've been working with Blue Zones for
2 years now in creating
a retreat product that's, like an in immersion
on Blue Zones lifestyle.
So for people who don't know Blue Zones,
it's,
like, blue zones first,
are areas in the world where people live
the longest.
(00:20):
So where there's a high concentration of centenarians.
And these areas are located in Sardinia,
in Ikaria,
Greece,
Sardinia, Italy, sorry, in Okinawa,
in Japan,
in Loma Linda in California
in the US, and in Nicoya Peninsula in
Costa Rica.
(00:41):
And it started with the explorations
of these areas.
And then from this exploration,
Dan Wigner, who was the the explorer,
started to like, he brought a team of
researchers
and scientists to him. And they found out
that,
these places actually, like,
(01:04):
it's not genetics really that define that we
are living longer, it's their lifestyle.
And they found, like, even if these places
were spread out around the world, they found
similarities
in the core values and their core lifestyle.
And so I thought, okay.
Like, how do we
use these lifestyle principles
(01:25):
and implement them into US cities? It's from
the US. And so that
Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Social Hotelier
Show with me, Samirik Ruthman,
where we explore the intersection of hospitality,
humanity, and technology.
Today, we are diving deep into the transformative
world of wellness with a trailblazer in the
(01:45):
industry, Celine Vadam.
Celine is the founder of WeThink, a forward
thinking consultancy dedicated to wellness, environment, and innovation.
With a wealth of experience spanning global collaborations,
luxury wellness retreats, and groundbreaking sustainability
initiatives,
Celine has redefined how we think about well-being
in the hospitality
sector.
From working with prestigious wellness brands to spearheading
(02:08):
Blue Zone inspired retreats, she's at the forefront
of the shaping experiences that nourish the body,
mind, and planet.
In this episode, we'll uncover Celine's journey, her
passion for meaningful collaborations,
and her vision for the future of wellness
and hospitality.
From integrating certifications like WIL to crafting,
interesting,
collaborations with health experts, Celine will share insights
(02:30):
that are inspiring as they are actionable.
So whether you're a hotelier, wellness enthusiast, or
someone, like, curious about creating aspects,
spaces that foster true well-being, this is an
episode you won't want to miss.
Welcome, Selena. Thanks for joining us today. Thank
you, Samirik, for having me. Well, we have
had few of this episode in the past,
and I'm always intrigued about the new
(02:53):
information you are sharing because you're really living
the wellness
trend and also what is going on in
the demand and and and hot buttons of
wellness. And
I'm particularly realizing that you've been traveling so
much during this year, and I would really
like to learn a little bit about what
has your year been like and how does
(03:14):
it relate to the different retreats you are
doing?
Yeah, I've traveled a lot today. I literally
did like,
went around the, around the globe, like literally
like I, I started like in,
in Azores in Portugal,
went all the way to Asia, the US,
and then came back to
Greece, Italy, UK, and back to Portugal. So
(03:36):
it was like literally.
And, yeah, my year has been good. Thank
you for asking.
It's been a very interesting year because,
so we've we think,
I'm working on
hotel development projects, like wellness concept for,
(03:58):
new hotel development
and also renovations.
And,
we've just opened the Four Seasons in Rabat,
Morocco.
So I worked on the wellness concept for
that hotel, and, it's quite interesting how things
comes back around because
that's one of the first projects
I worked on when I was working with
Four Seasons in development.
(04:20):
So it was very cool to work on
it again this time as a consultant.
And now, like, going there a few months
ago to
see it finally
open. So I really followed the full process
on this project. So it's always very exciting.
And the spa is really wonderful, so I'm
very excited for people to see it. And
(04:40):
then we launched with Blue Zones Blue Zones
Retreats.
So I've been working with Blue Zones for
2 years now in creating
a retreats product that's, like an in immersion
on Blue Zones lifestyle.
So for people who don't know Blue Zones,
it's,
like, blue zones first,
(05:02):
are areas in the world where people live
the longest,
so where there's a high concentration of centenarians.
And these areas are located in Sardinia,
in Ikaria,
Greece,
Sardinia, Italy, sorry, in Okinawa in Japan,
in Loma Linda in California in the US,
(05:22):
and in Nicoya Peninsula
in Costa Rica.
And it started with the explorations
of these areas.
And then from this exploration,
Dan Whitner, who was the the explorer,
started to like, he brought a team of
researchers
and
scientists with him, and they found out that,
(05:46):
these places actually, like,
it's not genetics really that define that they
are living longer. It's their lifestyle.
And they found, like, even if these places
were spread out around the world, they found
similarities
in the core values and their core
lifestyle.
And so I thought, okay. Like, how do
(06:06):
we
use these lifestyle principles
and implement them into US cities. It's from
the US. And so that's what we've been
doing,
for, like, around 20 years,
through books, through, like, a Netflix documentary
that was released last year,
and there's also through like work in
(06:28):
like more than 70 communities in the US.
And the idea was to make it
accessible
in a different
way, like in a different format
to places
around the world,
and that's how, like, Blue Zones retreats came
to life.
So the idea was to put together the
(06:48):
the content
and the lifestyle principle
from
the the blue zones,
power 9 principle and the blue zones research
and turn it into
like a lifestyle coaching
retreat.
So and yeah. And it's really that. It's
really like, it's not a lecture. I'm not
sitting people down with PowerPoint
(07:10):
to,
you know, like, give them, like, numbers. And,
it's really like
a lifestyle coaching. We have,
like, exercises,
sharing, journaling,
and,
it's
we have some activities. So every retreat is
different depending on the location
because we are doing like activities,
(07:31):
local activities. Like in
in Costa Rica, we went to visit
a a local farm,
and we had the the grandmother, the abuela,
doing
tortillas and making us breakfast.
We had some treks in the jungle.
In
Okinawa, we
did some Okinawan karate. We did,
(07:54):
a cooking class,
like, in the local market.
We went to we did we had, like,
we made this,
like grandmother
who is she's got, I don't know, like
so many flowers that she's growing in her
garden.
And,
she's,
like infusing them in oil.
(08:15):
And, like, she was there with, like, 50
bottles of the oil infused
flowers
with to make, like, some body
body, like, body oil.
And she's starting going to the gym because
she's so she's,
using, like, spring water for her flowers.
And she was getting because she's getting older,
(08:37):
she was getting a bit weaker,
and she couldn't carry the, like, the gallons
she was, like, carrying to get the spring
water. So she's starting going to the gym
to lift weight to be able to
to carry this gallon. So I found this
story super, yeah, super interesting.
So it's also about meeting people, meeting
(08:59):
local people,
and,
really connecting with the location
and Well, that's Luzun's principles. Yeah. Yeah. I
mean, that's really, I have, of course, followed
you,
when you travel and I was right. The
message is I really envy you and I
wish I would be there doing an episode
with you wherever you are because you but
you're now describing
(09:20):
some of these places that you are visiting,
Costa Rica and and in Japan and so
forth. I mean, that those are very
interesting things for,
even though one not being in a wellness
enthusiast, but just simply for the curiosity,
and to learn something new about how people
are living in a different place. But that's
really nice, nice things to see. I I
(09:42):
when I ask people, oh, have you heard
of Blue Zone? I think there is,
just what everyone have who has heard about
Blue Zone,
and because it caught on,
in the in the media and also
thanks to the,
streaming of or the mini series on on
Netflix. It became very, very popular. And then
I said, oh, now Celine is doing this.
(10:04):
I'm really in envy or envying her now
that she has really the chance and admiring
that it fits into what you're doing in
terms of so wellness.
And the people who are joining these Mhmm.
Wellness retreats,
are they
they're similar people, or is it almost like
a same group who's going from place to
place, or are they just different every time?
(10:25):
So we only done, like, a a couple
so far.
Yeah. But we actually have, like, people who
who came to a retreat in, so we
don't we did 4. We did,
Costa Rica,
Okinawa, and so Japan, and we did,
2 with Modern Elder Academy,
(10:45):
1 in San Jose and 1 in, in
Mexico.
And so so
but we had them and actually, like, some
participants from Japan wants to come to the
one we're doing next year, well, in 2025
in Thailand,
and someone from Santa Fe wants to go
to Costa Rica.
So I think that as we grow
(11:08):
the product and we have more location,
we will have more returning guests,
because it's always like at the end of
the day, what I always say is that
the blue zones lifestyle principles are not complicated,
but they are impactful and they are also,
like, flexible enough to be interpreted
(11:31):
how how you want to. And, you know,
like,
there's a principle of,
moving naturally. So
in,
Quina, it's a lot of gardening.
In Costa Rica,
it's like riding your horse in, you know,
like, deepening on the the place down shifting
the same, you know, the principle
(11:52):
of, like, relaxing and taking taking some time
some downtime.
And that could be like
meditation
or gardening again or taking a walk or
doing some arts and crafts or
dancing.
So there are so many different ways
to integrate these principles and that's really what
we're doing with the participants when we are
(12:15):
doing these Blue Zones modules
is reflecting together, like, taking this time actually
to reflect together on
how would that look like into your life.
You know? Downshifting
is can be actually is is a really
simple one and everybody agrees that
stress is bad and we need to slow
down and but it's actually very triggering for
(12:36):
people to
put it down, you know, and say, okay.
Like, I'm committed to downshift by doing
this thing, like,
every day or every week. It's it's a
it's a very triggering one, especially in North
America.
It's a that's also something interesting to see,
like, what are the different,
like, health and wellness or lifestyle preoccupation
(12:58):
in the different areas of the world,
and, like, what
principles are more, like, triggering
for
for, like, people. It's quite it's quite fascinating.
Yeah. So in one way, this is part
of also about the place for self discovery.
And what have you noticed? I mean, just
(13:19):
can you give some examples what you have
noticed in people now there when you see
it for the first time and then they're
in the program, do you sense that there's
a self discovery element and how they react
to something,
that they
haven't seen before or experienced before?
Totally.
And
I think that the these principles are not
(13:39):
new,
but
they are not new to people, especially people
who are familiar with the blue zones. But
what's new and impactful is
really, like, taking the time to
to
reflect on them
and doing so, like, in an environment where
you are really, like, cocooned in these hotels.
(14:04):
You are, like, immersed in the Blue Zones
lifestyle, and, like, you are supported by other
people who also want to
make lifestyle changes,
who wants to be more present for their
families and loved ones,
who wants to take better care of themselves
and their health. So you're in this really,
like,
(14:26):
like, closed an environment, this container
where you really
are supported.
And that sometimes, you know, like, something
that that's something that makes the difference
because sometimes you have people who wants to,
like, implement lifestyle changes, but it's very hard
for them to find support
(14:46):
at home or, like, in their friends group
or in their work environment
to make these changes because
you changing
means, you know, like, it can be triggering
to other people. Like, are you you're doing
that. I'm not doing it. Like, you know,
like, does it make me bad not doing
it? Or, like and so, like, sometimes the
(15:08):
the difficult part for,
like,
starting, like, lifestyle changes is is your environment,
your physical environment,
your emotional
environment, your support system.
And so, like,
this really helps put all these different
aspects
into perspective.
(15:30):
And, we also start by basic assessment
to to see, like, where people are in
each areas,
like, in each life's drug principles of the
blue zones. So then you can fine tune,
you know, like, where do you want to
or, like, what do you want to work
on first?
Yeah. Yeah. But also, I can imagine it
(15:51):
also has a sense of responsibility
to the to the team and yourself who
are
running these, retreats
because you have somebody who might be in
a very, very vulnerable state and their self
discovery and how you can support them and
and also to help the other people to
support that person so they are feel a
they are in a safe place.
(16:13):
Exactly. And, I, like, I really love seeing
that, you know, like, seeing the group. Because
I I see it, like,
like, day after day, like, seeing the the
group, like, like,
structure and, like, get tied together.
And also people, like,
you know, like, opening up and, like, really,
(16:33):
like, blossoming and glowing, like, day after day.
Like, it's really I I think we should
take one picture,
you know, like when people arrive and when
they leave, because it's really, you really see
it,
on their faces.
Yeah. You can, you can really speed it
and see it
and have everybody's like urging each other towards
(16:55):
the end. So it's like a short period
of time, but it's it gets really it
goes really deep and personal.
And, I'm really happy when I have, like,
participants
telling me that,
like, they've been, they're still in contact together.
They put they organize a WhatsApp group and
(17:15):
they call each other. They have a group
call every week. And,
so it's it's very, like,
very powerful. It's
working.
Wonderful. Wonderful.
I'm I'm so glad glad to hear that.
And I also I think the audience will
resonate
to what you are saying.
So we're just sort of taking it in
in one step into the direction. How do
(17:37):
you see the concept of these blue zone
trees aligning with the demands of wellness travelers?
Because I think there has been over the
years,
where people are people have been traveling for
wellness, I mean, for centuries. So there's there's
nothing new about it. But if you're looking
at the the modern, like, stressful life people
have, the mental issues, and so on, how
do you see these retreats aligning
(17:58):
with what the people need, today when they
go to the street retreats?
I think that the Blue Zones retreats, like,
compared to over, like, today, like the retreat
sector
is very fragmented.
And like, it's really like all over the
place. There's
everything everywhere.
(18:18):
It's harder though to find unless you really
know the instructor
to
know, like, what's the quality of the content
you're gonna have, what's the quality of the
instruction.
And I have to say, like,
the number of followers on Instagram doesn't guarantee
a good,
like, a good quality retreat,
and it's different to
(18:40):
have people for class, you know, like a
1 hour class
even if it's every day
versus having, like, leading a group of people
of people through, like,
transformational
changes and through, like, a structured,
a structured program.
And so I think, like, first,
one of the big,
(19:02):
like,
advantage and alignment to the current market that
Blue Zones Richards
has
is that all the
the content
is backed up by these 20 years of
research,
from by scientists
and researchers,
and it's research on lifestyle and longevity.
(19:23):
So all these so you have the the,
like, scientific bag up from all of these
in the program.
So that's really like, like, people wants you,
like, there's so much
content out there. Like, it's hard to know
what's true, what's not true. So you already
have the,
(19:44):
yeah, you already have this certification
of of that, like, the scientific,
like, background.
And then you also have the,
you also have the the fact that we
are select carefully also the venues
while we are doing the retreat.
So we are working with,
with properties
(20:04):
that will reflect the Blue Zones lifestyle and
environment.
Really wonderful
people. Like, the properties we we worked with
are really, yeah, really amazing,
in cost in both Costa Rica and Okinawa,
actually, like,
the employees are amazing. And the it was
(20:25):
funny, like, in in Nicoya, in Costa Rica,
like, to talk with the employees,
and,
they were saying, yeah. Actually, my my grandpa
is
103.
And in my village, like, 10 people are
more than her 100 years old. And so
they also really, like, you're really immersed in
the Blue Zone location and similar in Okinawa
(20:47):
as well. Like when you go to these
places, you really,
it's hard to explain, but you really feel
like, okay. Like,
I get, you know, like, the that this
atmosphere
atmosphere
is really, like,
fostering people's well-being.
And,
and so and I think also, like,
(21:08):
another way to align is that it's not
you you go on holidays. You want to
learn. You want to, yes, like,
make lifestyle changes
or, like, do something for your health and
wellness.
But
you
during the retreat, you also do some sightseeing
and you learn about the place and the
(21:29):
culture and the people. You you have this
authentic side, like,
you know, like meeting with the local people.
You also have, like, the
the fact that you meet like minded people.
So it's a group of people that
you might not see after the retreat, but
(21:49):
lots of changes chances are that you're gonna
like each other and, you know, keep in
touch, so making new friends.
And it's not restrictive. So we're not putting
you on a diet. The food is absolutely
delicious.
But we're eating, it's not like we're not
doing intense workouts.
So it's still a holiday. You know, like
(22:11):
some of the places, like of the wellness
retreat,
some of them are more like,
hardcore.
And so it can be, like, very restrictive.
It's very,
resource oriented.
You need to lose
X number of kilos, or you need to
run a, put on a diet, or you
(22:32):
have a series of exams that you,
or like checkups to do. So this is
not that, like, this is more like,
like a softer version.
And we also, like,
it's also things that you can take home.
So it's not, you know, like the fix
quick fix retreat that you do for 1
week.
(22:53):
It's it's more like, that's that's also why
I think we're gonna have more and more
repeat guests
to, you know, to see, like, how it's
done in another location, but also
how it's done
in another season.
You know, like, what are my the progress
I've made compared to the last retreat
(23:13):
and,
because lifestyle changes take time. It's not something
that you just, like,
snap and then,
boom, it's integrated and it takes time. So,
that's also where the the difference is. You
go home with some
things to set up, and you have the
accountability
(23:33):
of the of the group and the the
friends group that you've created
to support you in that.
Very good. Well, for for all of you
listeners and viewers, if you have any questions,
I will put at the end of the
this episode where you can ask questions because
I think it raises, I'm sure, ideas and
questions you will have for Celine.
(23:55):
So,
please feel feel free to write any questions
you have
about the the topic that, we just described.
And, also, if you're listening into the
podcast, Apple Podcast, put in your comment there
or in YouTube, write in your comments there.
So we are very happy to respond to
you, and that also gives a chance to,
(24:16):
even answer those questions,
in another episode.
Okay. So that was
wonderful ideas about and, experience that you have
in running the retreats, the blues and retreats.
So let's talk a little bit about, partnerships.
So what role do you believe
partnerships live with entity entities like Clinique Del
Lepre or
(24:36):
celebrity trainers
can play in redefining
wellness offerings,
for, like, the modern consumers?
Yeah. So that's a very
interesting question because and that's also includes, like,
the Blue Zones retreats, like,
hotels wants
to have a better and, like, more attractive
(24:57):
wellness offering.
Like, how many times do I have people
coming and saying they have a, like, super
innovative
wellness concept and they're gonna do something that
no one's ever seen and they're gonna be
the only one. And then I look at
it and I'm like, yeah, I've seen that,
like, a hundred times already. Thank you.
(25:17):
And so, like, so it's it's
and also, like, I would add that,
it's also something that,
you know, like, remember, like, how FNB was,
like, a few years back
where
hoteliers were not
restaurateurs. They were not FNB people,
(25:38):
and it was hard to get some really
cool FNB concept at hotels.
Now, like, you have some really cool FNB
concept
and some really, really successful hotel restaurants that
are are, like, very successful and very attractive
to the local
people too.
So I think we are at the same
(25:59):
kind of era with wellness
where hotels
right now don't know how to make cool
wellness,
like, experiences and cool spas.
And,
they try to like, there's a lot of
copy paste, like, okay, let's put a pool,
a sauna,
(26:19):
steam room. And so they they are like
these tick boxes.
And using, like, partnerships
right now,
it's the same as using third parties when,
you know, like, with f and b, like,
a few years back. So it's the the
quick fix. You know? Let's use let's use
let's use a name. Let's use,
(26:40):
like, a celebrity
something to help us.
And,
I would say, like, that solve that can
solve a part of the problem,
but that doesn't solve the overall problem because
it still doesn't help you.
Like,
like, I I'm taking the example of Clinique
La Prairie. Like, it would like, ahead of
(27:01):
time, I had that every time, you know.
I want to do a Clinique La Prairie
Spa or like a Charle and a sore
and I was, I think you don't because
it's it's a clinic. So it comes with
doctors. It comes with,
like, medical,
like, medical requirements,
legal issues. Like, there is a bunch of
(27:22):
things that,
as a hotel, you're not ready and you're
not equipped to deal with.
And so
I think it it doesn't take away
the the need for
hotels
to
think thoroughly about their wellness concept
to make something that's
relevant for their hotel and their market. So
(27:45):
it's not like and that that's the way,
like, wellness is approached these days. It's that,
oh, we have a few square meters.
They are, like, a few 100 square meters
that we can use for the spa, and
let's see what we can fit in there.
So, like, I'm taking the approach the other
way around saying, okay. What do you want
to provide as a wellness experience?
(28:07):
What wellness mean to you and to your
hotel? And from there, how much kilometers do
we really need?
What infrastructures
do we really need to make, like, a
coherent
and appealing
experience?
And so sometimes I see, like,
hotels with spas that are too small for
(28:27):
what they could do and they could offer,
but I also see spas that are far
too big for their market.
And so it goes like, it it goes
either ways.
And and,
and using
yeah. Going back to your initial question about
using brands,
again, it's something that can
that can help
(28:49):
to give credibility
to also, like, attract
outside
guests or, like, to create,
you know, like, you mentioned,
Clinique La Prairie
or celebrity,
like trainers.
It can also be working with us, like
a cosmetics brand, like
(29:10):
Guerlain or Espa.
So it it helps to it helps to
some extent, but I don't think it's
a, like,
cookie
cutter solution.
It really needs to depend. It really depends
on the
market, on the hotel, on the location
(29:30):
and on what's the objectives for wellness are.
Yeah. I mean, you're you're right. I like
your analogy about
how how, hotels,
with the food and beverage concepts and and
the hotels were not geared. They tried to
do getting a,
celebrity chef there and try to do a
concept and try to do franchising and then
(29:50):
which Erin, they know nothing about.
But now, I mean, the expectations
of of
hotelier is that you have one of the
key aspects besides sustainability
and and, marketing, if you will, is the
culinary excellence and that they partner themselves with
either they have a chef with them on
board, and they jointly create exactly something,
(30:11):
outstanding, which is,
suitable for the local environment where they can
use the local,
produce
products, local farmers, and create something which is
this is the only place where you can
get exactly this. We don't, you don't have
to import it,
thousands kilometers away. So I I like your
analogy and I can relate to that while
(30:31):
we speak about how it
should be working. I could be working in,
in the wellness aspects. Yeah.
Yeah. And the same, you know, like a
few years back, F and B was a
tick box, you know, we need to have
a restaurant to have the store.
Spa is the same, you know. We need
to have a gym. We need to have
a spa. And when I talk about wellness,
(30:52):
it's the, the spa, but it's also the
gym. Like how many times I scream when
I see the gym? I'm like, why
all these machines? Like, no one knows how
to
use, like, half of them. There's no coherence
in the in the, like, in how and
why they have been chosen.
So and and it could save, actually, like,
(31:13):
a lot of money to owners
to
like, it could make them a lot like,
money to have
a, like,
well
constructed,
well thought thought through, wellness concept, but it
can also save them money from, like, you
know, like, building things that are not used,
(31:34):
like ISOSPA, like, building, like, beautiful
Turkish hamam with all the marble and beautiful.
No one wants to go there because it's
not the market for it. Yeah. It's in
a tropical place, and no one wants to
go to a Turkish hamam in this location.
They want to have something more local.
So, yeah, could have saved them a lot
(31:56):
of
money. Very good. Well, but you must have
done with the 4 seasons in in in
Rabat.
You incorporate
the local,
way of doing a spaza and rejuvenating
treatments. So it actually fits the environment, right?
Yeah. So when working on this project,
(32:16):
I digged into
the
traditional Islamic and Arabic medicine,
which is very similar to Chinese medicine or
Ayurveda. So it's like the
the, like, North Africa or, like,
Middle East
version of it.
And, also, like, to Moroccan,
(32:37):
like, traditions,
so we have 2 beautiful hammams,
like, Moroccan hammams with, like, a scrubbing room
and, like, massage tea like, massage room and,
like,
like, a steam room, but
the steam room in the Moroccan hamam is
not as
it's not, like, steamy, like, so steamy. For
(32:58):
you, you can't see anything.
That's also a difference. Like, people don't know
that the a steam room,
A Moroccan hamam and a Turkish hamam are
completely different things.
So we have, yeah, like, a male and
a female section. And, also, the
the so the gym we worked with, Harley
Pasternak, is a celebrity
(33:20):
trainer in LA. I worked with him before,
and, so we build the gym together,
and, like, selecting the machines.
And the idea was to really create, like,
a circuit,
where people can know, you know, like,
you know, what's the,
sequencing
(33:40):
of the machines you're using.
And, also, we worked on
linking that and this
physical and movement aspect
with the treatments at the spa.
And we're also, like, in Rabah, so we
are located next to the ocean.
So we integrated,
like, the the main pool has,
(34:02):
seawater
in it.
We have some,
so we have some water
experiences,
and we have,
we have also, like, a hot and cold
circuit
that goes, you know, like after your workout,
you go and you you have your sequencing
and your circuits
with the hot and cold therapy. And we
(34:24):
we went with,
like a a sauna with aromatic
herbs, like local. They they grow a lot
of rosemary on property.
So, like, having these aromatic herbs, we have
a steam room and we have a snow
room. So
you're getting the colds through
the the snow room, which is
(34:45):
still effective,
but not as harsh as a cold plunge.
So yeah. And you have also some, like,
jacuzzi with different temperatures
and some,
some hydrojets
in the pool. So and it despite really
like, it's really wow. Like, I worked with,
(35:05):
designers at a depot on that,
and we had calls
every single day, like, to, like, you know,
like, put the concept
together and, like, really working together on
not just the
the visual
part, but also the operational
part and make sure that
the
the guest journey is really well thought through,
(35:28):
that does
the treatment rooms, like, in each space
is very, like, functional
and easy to use from an operational
point of view and also from a guest
perspective.
Yeah. You should go and
and tell me what you think about it
when it makes sense. I'll I'll tell you.
(35:48):
We'll be surprised. I might be go there
because I I I love Morocco, and, we
may have a project lining up in Morocco
one of these days. So,
I've been to robot,
and and I know I know the 4
season has been a project that has been
going on for quite many years before it
actually finally opened, and it's I'm glad finally,
it has been
(36:10):
successfully open and, with the way you describe
the the wellness is,
sounds really,
maybe that's right to expression, but mouth watering
sounds very exciting and intriguing. So definitely have
to give it a try.
So, let's move on to the, maybe the
final questions for this episode,
which really relates to, there's so many wellness,
(36:31):
operators around and, then it's almost
feels like it's like a marketing tool, but
how can certification
like well or other wellness standards
generally impact credibility
and effectiveness of wellness concepts versus them being
perceived as mere marketing tools?
I think, again, you know, it goes back
(36:52):
to the concept of your property and, like,
your wellness concept,
because it can be very useful.
Like, the the well, like, well certification,
they have this product called well rooms,
and I've seen them we
we had them at the 4 Seasons in,
(37:14):
Beverly Hills
where a whole floor was converted into
a wellness floor. It's the the floor
where the pool and the gym are and
the spa are.
And so
these rooms were so the well rooms, they
have,
like, special,
air filtering system,
(37:36):
water filtering.
There's this
mirror that has, like, mood light.
It's using, like, specific,
hypoallergenic
fabrics,
like a healthy mini bar, healthy book. So
there's a lot of details into these rooms
to make them
well. And,
(37:56):
and the WEST certification,
like,
like, it it's
crazy. Like, there's a lot of a lot
a lot of research behind it
around air quality, noise quality, light quality,
food, movement, you know, like, how to design
spaces that encourage people to
(38:16):
socialize,
to
walk or, like, to move more,
to have, like, an environment that's
healthy, like, but not just,
but healthy, you know, in terms of the
the the noise and the light, the air,
like, really, like, all the aspects of it.
And,
(38:36):
yeah, it's it's it's been working really well
and it's, you know, like, they have some
some studies where it's actually help increase the
ADR
of these rooms, like, before and after being
transformed into well rooms.
One thing that I always wonder is, like,
if these are well room, why aren't
(38:58):
all the rooms
well rooms? Like, does it mean I'm not
gonna sleep well if I'm sleeping in a
non well room? But,
so, yeah, I would tend to say it
would be nice to have them all, like,
done like that because we have also done
some testing around, you know, how it helps
jet lag and, you know, like, sleeping better,
etcetera.
(39:19):
Yeah.
So, yeah, it it definitely helps, and it's
also like a certification
that's more
recognized now, and some owners actually require it
require it now.
The same way that certification
likely to, you know, like,
are used for sustainability.
(39:40):
So I think as, you know, has the
this kind of certification
are more
familiar with,
with the public,
they would be very
useful to
yeah. They would be very useful for for
guests to identify
what exactly is done outside of the spa
(40:01):
because,
yeah, wellness is not just what's happening
in the spines. Also, you know, like, the
overall,
guest experience,
where, like, you mentioned f and b before.
You know? Where is your
product sourced? You know, like, is are they
local? Are they seasonal?
Are we, do they have pesticide in them?
(40:22):
How is your sleep experience? So, again, you
know, like, the thing defining
what are your wellness pillars.
And, again, it's not breaking science. You know?
You need to sleep well, eat well,
move every day,
connect with people and socialize, and be able
to have some rest and me time. So
it's not like it's something
(40:43):
really,
like, like,
it's not complicated,
but
how do you integrate that at every single
touch point of your hotel
to create
a really,
a really authentic
and impactful
experience for your client.
So then you so you get this glow,
(41:04):
you know, like I was mentioning this glow
during the retreat.
How do you get that glow from your
client where you could take a picture when
the client arrives and when the client departs
and see like how, you know, how they
look more relaxed and more
happy and more, you know, like
excited and motivated?
(41:24):
Very good. Well, thank you, Selena.
We will look we will continue our discussion
in the world of wellness
and to our listeners.
Let me let us know what you'd like
to learn more about wellness and how it
would help you in your daily life. So
send the questions to us. You can write
to me, samericks@gmail.com,
and write in the subject line wellness questions,
(41:46):
and we will address those in our upcoming
episode.
So, Saleem, thank you very much again. I
as usual, I learned a lot what you
have you've been doing lately, and it's so
fantastic insights and congratulations on your
on the these retreats that you're doing. They
are, welcoming. So I can I can imagine
how you also
get a lot out of it, not only
(42:07):
the people who are joining in? Thank you.
I hope you can join 1 like this.
Like, for 2025
so far in the books, we have Costa
Rica again in February,
Thailand in May. So Costa Rica is at
the Andes,
in Peninsula Papagayo, in Main Thailand at Kamalaya,
and in October,
(42:28):
back to Okinawa,
the Alikulani
Hotel.
And we have also, like, over places that
will be announced soon. So, yeah, join.
Wonderful. Thank you.
Thank you. Okay. So
with this, Bert, we will,
we look forward that you all join us
in our next episode. So,
(42:50):
please subscribe to the YouTube channel or to
the
podcast,
channel and to know when we are coming
out live again. And also, I will post
this in in the LinkedIn.
And if you have if we haven't connected
with Celine or myself on LinkedIn, please do
so. That's where you hear when when when
the next episode is coming out. So thank
you for tuning in to The Social Hotelier.
(43:11):
If you enjoy the episode, please take a
moment to leave us a review. Give it
a thumbs up, and don't forget to hit
that subscribe button to stay updated.
We have incredible lineup of guests coming out
our way in in the future, but we
will now focus in next episode
on with,
wellness. And, so we'll look forward to have
a further discussion with
(43:31):
Celine about the the important aspects of wellness.
So until next time. See you again.
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