February 8, 2025 • 37 mins
In this engaging conversation, with Abdul Baaghil, Co – Founder / principal Harvest Cotton Tale, Abdul speaks about his experience working for luxury hotel brands, like Ritz Carlton, Cambell Gray Hotel. Abdulshares his journey from corporate management to independently developing hotels rooted in authenticity and cultural identity. Together, we explore how the evolving landscape of luxury and lifestyle hotels is grappling with maintaining genuine experiences amidst large-scale acquisitions by global chains like Accor and Marriott. Abdul highlights the critical need for integrity, immersive guest experiences, and transformative leadership to preserve the soul of hospitality brands.
Listen in to gain insider perspectives on the current and future state of the hospitality industry, the role of human capital, and strategies to maintain brand authenticity.
Key Takeaways:
The Shift from Corporate to Independent: Abdul shares his decision to leave large hospitality chains to create hotels that emphasize local culture, creativity, and unique experiences.
Challenges of Large-Scale Acquisitions: With global brands like Accor and Marriott acquiring independent luxury and lifestyle hotels, there are concerns about losing the original character and vision of these properties.
The Importance of Authenticity: True luxury today is less about material offerings and more about delivering emotionally engaging, culturally immersive, and transformative guest experiences.
Culture as a Competitive Advantage: Abdul emphasizes that a strong, well-defined company culture, led by general managers who embody and infuse it, is key to maintaining guest trust and loyalty.
Strategies for Direct Bookings: To reduce dependency on OTAs, Abdul advocates for brands to build trust through honesty, consistent quality, and personalized service, enhancing direct booking channels.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
You are listening to the Social Hotelier Show,
a podcast that inspires hoteliers to create meaningful
and memorable experiences
for their customers
in pursuit of their passion.
We share our views and experiences experiences relating
to hospitality,
technological
trends, and also relating to humanity.
Here is your host, Sam Eric Rutman.
(00:25):
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Social Hotelier
podcast with me, Sam Eric Rutman.
Has luxury hospitality lost its authenticity
in the pursuit of growth?
In this episode, we will explore the shifting
landscape of luxury hotel brands as boutique hotels
expand into major cities
in charm of of our intensity being sacrificed
(00:46):
for growth?
It it actually begs the question. And also
looking at the big players, the Giants, the
the five you sort of suspects
that has grown from maybe five brands to
45 brands, and we are a little bit
confused that, and the consumers and the development
people are a little bit confused what do
they stand for. Well, I have I'm very
thrilled. I have an excellent guest to
(01:07):
to discuss this matter,
and it's Abdul Bagheel.
He is the
prince cofounder and principal of Harvest Cottontail Hospitality
Group, and the firm is specializing in light
turn luxury turnkey solutions for hotels, restaurants,
and food rate retail.
Abdul has comes with a twenty year global
(01:28):
experience in the hospitality industry.
His work focus on integrating authentic cultural experiences
into luxury hospitality
with projects spanning in Europe, Middle East, Africa,
and Asia. So welcome, Abdul. Thanks for joining
us today.
It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you,
Sam, for having me too.
So where are you located at the moment?
(01:49):
I'm currently right now actually on a remote
area called Siwa in Egypt. We're putting up,
40 key,
authentic locally authentic complementary to the,
Amazir culture
boutique hotel.
Sorry.
Wonderful. Wonderful.
Yeah. Well, the so,
(02:12):
that's that's great that you're you're we're able
to connect while you're on your on on
location and with your project.
And,
so could you just share a little bit
with your with your own your company why
you formed formed Harvest Cottontail Hospitality Group, and,
how has the journey been,
for for when you were in in the
corporate world until you started your company?
(02:34):
Oh, absolutely.
Well, I was a hotel manager with the
Ritz Carlton Hotel Company, and then I was
a hotel manager with Paramount Hotels and Resorts.
And then I was acting general manager for
a little while.
And then I went on to become the,
managing director and consultant for Campbell Grey Hotels
in, Beirut.
So I directly worked together with,
(02:56):
himself,
Gordon Campbell Gray. And at that point, I
felt that going into that type of a
hotel, I realized that I wanted to do
something very different, probably just run a collection
of, hotels.
And I was offered this opportunity by Challenger
Limited, formerly known as Challenger Limited, now known
as,
Tapa Oil.
(03:17):
They had a subsidiary
of a number of luxury boutique hotels in
Africa, in Morocco, in Egypt, and in Mozambique.
So I was appointed as the CEO of
that group.
And the duration of five years running that
and developing it from one property to seven
properties,
I felt confident that I can go on
the journey of running my own business,
(03:37):
as an entrepreneur and be true to myself
and my values. And it's something that I've
always been passionate about is to curate and
create hotel concepts that are authentically
local,
complementary to the culture and environment.
So I took on,
the opportunity
given, and I started HarvestCon hospitality
(03:57):
group.
And,
we started that group in 02/2016
together with my business partner, Bruno Contreras, and,
it's been an exciting journey. But I'll be
very frank with you.
Throughout my career, I've also been a little
bit of a rebellious. I never liked to
wear a name tag.
I don't wanted to be part of a
whole entire uniform system.
(04:17):
And I always had these independent ideas, independent
innovative approaches when I was working in hotels.
And then, in fact, I was never part
of a club. I always sit out on
my own, and I looked at things in
a different perspective. So I knew it at
one point that I was gonna leave. I'm
not gonna I'm not gonna stay longer on
this,
(04:38):
road or journey of the corporate world.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's that's very good. I
mean, I think
you you seem to be a really
fit for to run your own,
through the vision you have and your own
company. So it's very good. And
how did I mean, just looking at the
(04:58):
the situation with running your own company,
how were you affected during the COVID? Did
that have an impact on your business at
the time? Or or
Oh, absolutely. I think, the
hotel project,
went to halt, and we kind of
everything was put on hold in terms of
the developers,
of the older properties,
(05:21):
in terms of restaurants equally.
We don't run restaurant. Back then, we didn't
run any restaurant. So the only thing that
was going on for us was the private
label that we do for, luxury food retails,
mainly in Europe and The Middle East.
And,
it was an ongoing process of further developing
products over 3,500
(05:41):
products for these,
private labels,
that are branded within the,
retail name itself.
And that went on very well. It was
an engagement contract for us. And it went
off very well for about
a good,
duration of the pandemic, you know. And,
and that's when we actually launched it. And
(06:02):
we launched it six months before the pandemic,
and it's been a great success for us.
And we're still on the private
label luxury food retail business. We're still on
that road together now. We've grown from one
brand to four brands.
Oh, excellent. Excellent. Well, it's good that you
kind of diversify
your your offerings in a way that Absolutely.
(06:24):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
You're I mean,
I read quite often you about your post
and particularly LinkedIn,
And you're sort
of a observer and frequent commentator of the
state of luxury hospital hospitality companies. And and,
yeah, now I realize that you're a little
bit of rebellion, and that's that's good. I
(06:44):
mean, we have to give up we have
to,
say how how we see it. And and
and I'm that's that's very important because to
keep keep things in in in relevant to
what what because there are many
companies who are thinking they're doing a great
job, and I'm I'm sure they are, but
also
(07:04):
has created some confusion
in consumers to where things have been developing.
So,
can you share a little bit your your
thoughts and speak about
how the influx of
major acquisitions by hospitality giants,
I'm talking about those five usual suspects, affected
the authenticity
of luxury and lifestyle brands? Have you seen
(07:26):
there any effect, or do you think they
are doing a great job?
Well, I personally think look.
Doing a great job is,
that's that's something that I look at differently.
I personally think that, in recent years,
when at one point, we only had these
traditional luxury hotels. We had the budget properties,
(07:47):
and then
you have the deluxe properties. So it was
a range of seven to eight brands, and
they've grown into the boutique lifestyle, the boutique
budget, and all that. And the reason this
major for the major giants is pretty much,
you know, market share and financial rewards, you
know, at the end of the day. But
the key you've asked me question you've asked
me is authenticity.
I think it's important to say that, you
(08:09):
know, a person that runs a Marriott or
a person that runs,
I don't know, JW Marriott or Ritz Carlton,
I don't see it fit as culture. And
I'm talking about cultivated culture running, an addition
or
or an SLS. I'm just gonna throw out
a few names. It's just because I think
it's not it's more than just a design
of a property or whether it's hip or
(08:31):
lifestyle.
I think culture is key. And the human
capital culture is very key to maintain the
authenticity of the brand. There's a brand culture,
and that brand culture is not only in
the brand values and philosophy of the brand,
it's the brand culture that counts most. And
that culture is infused is in the design
language. It's infused in the human capital.
It's they breathe it. They live it and
(08:51):
breathe it, and it's in the today day
the day to day culture of the property
itself. So I don't think that giants have
really sustained that, and that's why we're witnessing
a blur
between what luxury is and lifestyle is today.
So if you look at all the properties
that are coming up in terms of the
number of developments and that have opened in
recent years,
(09:12):
luxury versus lifestyle, there's a blur. I mean,
you cannot identify what is luxury now and
lifestyle is now. So we fall in that
pit is because of the giants continue to
further develop these properties, but they don't have
the key players
that can,
play the role of running a proper lifestyle
hotel or a luxury property.
(09:35):
Okay. So when you talk about culture,
you're you're referring to,
they are in a in a particular community,
which is maybe in a in a,
say, if it's a let's say, in Egypt
and there's one area of Egypt and you
put in a luxury property there, and then
you look you you study and understand the
community and the culture, and then you infuse
(09:58):
sort of luxury aspects which actually fits into
the
location and the and the community that they're
part of. Is that how you see it,
or or how would you do it? No.
That's one thing. That's only one element of
the whole entire spectrum. One element of the
formula itself. So the other thing is
that, you know, there there there there are
individuals that are built for a certain brand.
(10:19):
You can run a four season, you will
always be a four season person. And that's
how I'm gonna form it in form of
communication.
But there is and when I say culture,
I mean, culture of the brand, not the
country.
So Okay. The cult or or the destination.
I mean, the culture of the brand. There
culture is key. We live in times where
culture is paramount in anything we develop. So
(10:39):
when you have a brand like edition, you
have a culture of edition. So you will
have someone that fits that culture as an
individual.
So not necessary you'll not necessarily be a
four season or a Wisconsin or a j
brand or a Peninsula
gentleman. There is someone that fits that culture.
So we need to look at that culture
and further cultivate of that that culture of
the brand through its growth process
(11:01):
and authenticity through people.
So, again, you know, there is there is
the design language there, the physical part of
it, but there is the intangible part of
it that needs to be nurtured, and it
will be all nurtured through the human capital.
Okay. Is that part of a the DNA
of a brand then? Oh, a %. It's
(11:22):
part of the DNA of the brand, but
I think, you know, it needs to be
felt. People people feel it's the emotional connectedness
that counts, and the culture of the brand
itself will be felt through
all the touch points throughout the property
is through
the individuals that you have on board, whether
it's running the property
or the,
(11:43):
the human capital. But, initially, there other than
that, there is the culture of the brand,
which is,
which which needs to be, lived in or
lived with or lived by every day in
the property.
Yeah. And I don't and I personally think
giants
are not able to deliver
that. Yeah. Yeah. Could you speak a little
bit then about the elements that makes a
(12:05):
brand special, in in terms of reflection of
that, how you see the the DNA of
a brand? What what makes it special?
Well, one thing is I think when you
curate a culture,
of a brand, it is founded on the
fundamentals, which is the values, the principles, and
the philosophy. And there onwards,
(12:25):
you build on the culture of the design
itself and the design language of the property
itself, which is later on gonna mirror all
the other little details, which we call in
brand culture, whether it's in food, whether it's
in
experience, whether it's in different parts of the
property. And then again, it's added to the
human capital, whether it's in their uniforms
(12:47):
and the way they speak, the way they
talk, the way they communicate, the way they
emotionally connect with their
targeted audience or customers. And then all this
becomes into one culture, and that culture needs
to be sustained through the process. And it
needs to be continuously
curated and further developed
that it is in a full fledged
(13:07):
spectrum where you see this property has become
a brand and it has culture. Look at
it from a human standpoint. Right? I mean,
you have a person that comes from America,
someone comes from The Middle East, someone come,
from Asia Pacific. Everyone has his own culture.
It's humanized. So you humanize a property, and
you when you humanize a property, you give
it that culture. And that culture, you can
look at it from the way people behave
(13:29):
in the property,
the little details in the design language, and
and the experience itself, and the food, etcetera.
And that's what's key. But the key here,
you're asking me a question which is battle
to the process is, are the giants
able to sustain that? I think,
Accord to the certain extent is doing pretty
well with Enosmore,
but I think others are not. But, again,
(13:50):
we're throwing up these billboards,
with marketing,
splash, and we have all these names and
promoting properties left and right and saying it's
lifestyle, but we're the deliverables in terms of
experience and culture.
Yeah. Yeah. So,
is there a position like a chief cultural
officer who would have
(14:11):
to dig into all those things to make
sure? Or how does it work?
Well, I think, you know, I you you
you have it in certain hotel companies. You
have a chief cultural officer, but you do
need a cultural
you wanna call it a dream in a
culture officer or a culture ambassador, however you
wanna call it. But, there there has to
be a person or a a cultural department
with the head of the department driving the
(14:33):
culture through communication, through
marketing, through
spirit, through experience,
through uniforms,
through the little details, touch points. It's important
to have that because it's critical
in this day and age where many discerning
travelers are looking at the,
they they wanna connect. They wanna they want
(14:54):
something that resonates
with them. You know? So Yeah. I think
it's just important to have that and that
some companies do it. But, again, the question
here is, are they
are the deliverable deliverables in place? No. It's
not. You know, we hear them. We see
them. We we witness. No. We we we
read them. We hear about them. But are
they do you do you actually connect with
(15:16):
these deliverables when you are in the in
the physical property? No. It's not.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
How do you go about it in your,
in your,
in your group when you come out, you
have a property, and you have a property
or a project?
How do you go about this to
to so it fits into then when people
arrive as a customer one day, they they
(15:37):
really feel that the sense of place that
they have right to have one particular location
that relates to the culture.
Oh, that's an excellent question. Actually, we have
processes we start with. The first thing we
start with is brand and brand culture. We
look at the location.
We see what the develop the potential developer
is trying to put up as a property.
We're here to,
we we we spend quality time with the
(15:58):
developers and their vision and what are the
end results, whether it's part of a real
estate development,
is it to benefit the sale of the
mansions, the villas, or whatever it is. So
we we need to those we need to
put those into perspective,
and then we get involved with the community,
the local community. We hear stories. We go
to different corners, you know, taste food, look
at this retail store, look at the,
(16:19):
stories around the corners in that local community.
And then we go ahead and, you know,
we engage with the brand
brand backslash design
firm. I don't wanna mention a name, but
I mean, there are a lot of great
ones whether The UK or The US.
We sub we submit our vision as the
developer I I sorry, as the as the
concept developer and,
(16:41):
our vision and our,
how do we see the property and what
are the details and the little things you'd
like to see in the property. And then
we develop together with the brand agency
and design design agency the whole entire culture,
hand in hand.
And that and why do we have an
agency that does both? Because
(17:02):
the brand agency that's gonna develop the culture
will need to translate that culture or transmit
that culture into the design language. So they
both need to work one in one.
And we'd go through that process, and that's
the first stage that we do.
So we develop a culture. And that that
culture comes in in the document,
whether it's gonna be a 50 pages or
it's gonna be, 200 pages.
(17:24):
That's not the point. The point is that
we have all the elements
that covers the culture of the property.
So, Abdul, I'm interested to, to learn how
and could you speak about how you go
about
when you are going to a
new location that is a brand
is new to you,
(17:45):
and, there is maybe
a greenfield project.
And
how what is the process when you are
discussing with the the landowner or the investor
how to develop a project that will also
incorporate
the
the the culture aspects that you are talking
about, the design, etcetera. So you can speak
(18:06):
about that. So we under so we understand
your your thinking about how you go about
in in developing new projects.
Oh, absolutely.
Well, after example, so where we do there
are two ways we're doing. We usually, we
for the most part of it, our properties
the hotel properties we develop are in more
of, real estate, development destinations.
(18:29):
That's a gated community plus,
whole entire leisure, retail, and hotel.
But in some,
cases, we've also done, urban,
and in an urban setting,
where we've developed a boutique hotel of 30
keys in the middle of the city where
it's more like a SoHo hip,
neighborhood.
In those in that case, when it's an
(18:50):
urban property and within the neighborhood like SoHo
or any hip neighborhood,
usually it's an existing building,
that the owner has acquired and,
pretty much, you know,
it's gutted down, but, design has not even
not commenced yet. And we usually come in
(19:11):
as,
the first to be on board,
to
come on board and then present a few
brand agencies
and design led designers and brand,
and, start working on the,
capital,
investment,
and,
obviously,
the other details. So in that case, the
(19:31):
first thing we do is we start with
the whole entire brand process. And usually, I
prefer to work with an agency that does
both brand and design,
because culture is key and culture needs to
be both in in in brand and in
design. And, we commence the story
with looking to property where it's located and
its neighboring,
(19:55):
areas and the location of the property itself
in terms of the culture of the street,
the culture of the neighbor,
the retail part of it,
the food restaurant, independent restaurant part of it,
the music part of it,
the lifestyle of the whole entire neighborhood. And
that is already a culture on its own.
So the neighborhood is a culture. So we
pick that culture of the neighborhood and we
(20:15):
kind of
infuse it or transmit it into the property,
but not entirely because we want the brand
also to contain at least an independent
compliment to the neighborhood itself. So we go
with the brand about 60%. If I have
to do it in a percentage size, I
will say, we will take 40% of the
neighborhood, infuse it into the property, and 60%
(20:37):
of the brand culture will be independent
of its own yet complementary
to the destination where it is.
And we developed the brand through that process
where, obviously, you know, whether it's a uniform
and all the details be complimentary to the
to the to the neighborhood itself. But again,
that,
that that 60%,
independence
(20:57):
is the brand itself. Let's call it, for
instance, Hotel Joe. So it has to be
or or or or or let or let's
call it,
the foundry. So it has to be within
the story of the foundry. What is the
foundry? Where is the story of the foundry?
The details of the foundry. So we develop
a story of a foundry that's complimentary to
the neighborhood and what the foundry is as
(21:19):
an independent culture to the property itself.
And,
and then we create a character. So we
humanize the property through the brand culture itself.
We create characters, personality to the brand,
language to the brand,
form of communication to the brand, the way
people speak, the way people act, the way
people in the
(21:39):
people's attitudes are. We believe in individuality.
We don't wanna humanize people. We don't want
them to be anything else but themselves. So
we're we're firm believers of that in any
property we develop.
So, individuality is key, character is key. So
we develop a culture through that, you know.
And usually, in those cases is we primarily
look at, the culture itself and how will
(22:00):
that culture be very easy to infuse into
the human capital.
And then in tandem, we work with the
design language of the property. So these are
the first stages we do.
Good. Now and then then the actual
operation and of the property when it's
completed, is that can be handled
as an independent brand, or is it gonna
(22:22):
be handed over
through agreement with a one of the commercial
hotel companies who will operate it.
Okay. And, the cases we've done and the
properties
that we have developed, it,
actually, it is independent hotels that are run
by owners.
Okay. And the appointed general manager that reports
(22:43):
to the holding company,
in most cases, it's like, you know, it's
a private equity company that has a few
holdings, you know,
in different industries. But they have a division
where it's hospitality
run by one manager director and a few
teams, and then they have one, two, three
properties.
And usually, the general manager would report to
those, to the person in charge of hospitality.
(23:05):
That's the case. But,
not never never we have made a property
that has that independent personality, independent individuality,
character, and culture that's ever been part of,
a brand
because in in most cases, it doesn't work
that way.
But we have been involved in in in
in the process where we've been asked if
we know, if we can suggest a a
(23:27):
hotel company, whether it's luxury, traditional luxury lifestyle
or boutique
that would come and operate,
a property for, an upcoming development who have
been in those in those cases or in
those situations
where we've been asked by a potential client.
But the actual concepts we do are independent
concept. It has some culture, its own values,
(23:48):
philosophy,
and design and look and feel. And it's
very and it's very, very difficult for anyone
to acquire it because if they do acquire
it to be run by one of the
lifestyle hotels of the giants,
then you know what? You're gonna you're we're
gonna go back to the same thing that
I've been always arguing about is that, you
know, you're gonna kill the authenticity.
You're gonna lose the culture, and we're gonna
(24:09):
go back again into the autopilot properties where
you press the button and, you know, in
and out, and then everything else is on
collateral and billboards.
Okay. That that's very interesting. So,
so how do you see I mean,
when we look at the comp set and
the competitive set of a particular hotel that
is that you had that you have conceptualized
(24:31):
and so on, it runs independently.
But but normally in that if it's an
urban environment,
what kind of concept do these
hotels have? I mean, I'm I'm asking very
generally just to understand that,
who who are the when the customers are
choosing the location where they're gonna stay, they
have a, obviously, a wonderful choice to stay
in one of those hotel that you have
(24:51):
conceptualized, and it's an independent hotel.
May there are other hotels in the area.
In terms of comparable, in terms of luxury
experience or whatever it is,
who who is the comp set in in
in, if you would have to name a
few?
Would you like me to mention the brands
or,
just, Yeah. You can. Yes. Sure. Alright. So
it's very simple. Actually, we're very fortunate because
(25:13):
we're a very well rounded team. We have
excellent FNB,
excellent culinary,
excellent operation,
excellent
vision team, excellent brand culture and and design
and design agency that we work with. So
we're very well rounded. So having said that,
we are in the luxury segment.
The properties we have developed for our clients
(25:34):
have done very well in terms of ADR
and RevPAR.
And additionally,
that, you know, any properties we've done in
terms of the competitive set, you know, we
have competed. Even with less number of rooms,
we've competed with, you know, the traditional luxury
hotel companies
convention in terms of rate up there with,
a four season property or a or or
(25:56):
a Mandarin in terms of the room rates,
you know.
And we've done very well in getting the
occupancy up. So I think where my
I would be interested to understand,
when,
when you hire and
and, and and train
with this particular brand in mind, how do
(26:16):
you ensure the leadership and the stay staff
at the new properties
embody the brand's culture and values? Because it's
obviously the key that they are they are
it's not only the the manual and and
the vision that has been created, but actually
get them,
on board. And the and the kind of
training programs that need to be put in
place in order that it actually
(26:37):
that the result is exactly what the vision
was.
And that's another ex excellent question. And I'm
gonna go back to the values and fundamentals
I have mentioned,
with Harvest, Cut and Tell. Yes. We put
up great hotel concepts in F and B.
But again, at the end of the day,
we'd like
a great training and a very solid
(26:57):
training and,
a great selection of,
ladies and gentlemen or people.
It would have been a success. So we
do have an extensive hands on training program,
in place,
that we do, whether it's in rooms, food
and beverage, or,
back of the house, or,
finance,
(27:17):
marketing, etcetera. So we have a very structured
process
that goes up to,
sixty days,
prior to preopening. Remember, we don't do properties
for less than 200 key we don't do
properties for more than 200 keys. We do
properties from 20 to 200 keys. We wanna
remain true to ourselves and our culture. So
the hands on trainings are done, on a
(27:38):
longer period because of one simple reason.
We don't look at resumes and hire people,
that have experiences
at x hotel or,
one another luxury hotel, etcetera. We don't wanna
inherit cultures. This is key. We don't wanna
inherit cultures of other properties.
If I'm gonna go and tell you my
(27:58):
deliverables and authenticity need to be there, then
I need to be true to myself and
say, I'm not gonna inherit people from other
cultures. So what we're looking for, first of
all, is attitude and leadership. And leadership does
not stop only becoming a leader a a
great leader or as a job manager, you
know, because you could have that charisma and
leadership whether you're a doorman or a server
or an agent and sense of ownership.
(28:19):
So having said that, we usually prefer
that people that have somehow some experience in
the hospitality industry,
but not necessarily with a hotel background and
have also other interests
than just working in the hospitality,
industry, which I need that, you know, I
usually prefer, whether we hire an FMB or
(28:41):
in in in rooms or anywhere else, is
individuals that have a lot of personal interest,
meaning by photographer,
has interest in art, has interest in music,
a jazz listener,
plays music, etcetera.
Because that's culture. And that culture, people that
have culture,
individuals that have a lot of culture, that
are exposed to culture.
(29:02):
Because these are the individuals that are emotionally
gonna connect with potential customers
and speak about their travels, speak about music
that are culturally
developed to engage into a conversation.
You know, nobody wants to come and meet
you and say, you know, wearing a name
tag and say, you know, I am,
I'm a gentleman that works for X hotel
and I've been with the company for twenty
(29:23):
years and all I know is, like, I'm
a technical person. We have this property in
London. We have this property in Tokyo. Who's
interested anyway? Who cares?
You know? People wanna know about the destination
you're in. I wanna go to a great
jazz bar. Do I have to go to
a concert? No. You don't have to go
to a concert. I can ask the server.
He can tell me what a great jazz
bar is. I can wanna buy this amazing
guitar that I have that I have seen
(29:44):
this picture on my iPhone, and I don't
know where to get it. Would you know
where I can get it? You know what
I mean? So,
there's a cultured individuals. We look at cultured
individuals that are very, very well oriented with
their neighborhood, culture of their country, and individual
cultures with their music, art,
opera, whatever it is. We look at these
individuals. The technical part is easy. We're able.
(30:05):
We have a very good solid team that
can do the technical part, and we go
through the technical part and through countdown. We
usually we've had we've had great openings, and
we've had openings which have been a little
bit kind of rough. But again, the key
here is it takes almost another six to
seven, eight months on the day to day
operations after your opening to truly, truly have
(30:26):
culture in place and to truly, truly have
operation
run like a clock. But again, you know,
we're not gonna always gonna run a fair
job manager or or as I mentioned earlier
or the managing director of the property
because we hire leaders
and people that have a lot of culture,
a lot of charisma, a lot of leadership,
whether it's a doorman or a server. So
(30:46):
there's a sense of ownership from the opening.
So the process goes even faster.
Okay. Very good. Now,
I think my question is that because, you
know, you are you are quite different to
many of the hotel brands who have already
are set in a certain way. There's their
uniformity
and so on.
What what are the besides what we have
(31:07):
talked about, what are the trends do you
see happening in hospitality
that hoteliers should take note of? What do
you see going on? And looking at the
looking at the maybe at the future, where
do you see it going?
I personally think, you know, this this term
hotelier. I mean, I'm a hotelier also, and
I've graduated from a hotel school in Switzerland.
They also finished up my graduate studies at
(31:28):
the, European University of Montclair.
For the longest time, I've I've I've been
hearing it ever since the start of my
career with Hyatt at San Francisco until my
last post in hotel, hotelier, hotelier, hotelier.
I think it had just become became so
so so uniformed
that, you know,
it is sorry sorry to say it, but
(31:48):
modern day,
stripped out of your individuality
and character, and you belong to this group
called hotelier. I personally think need they don't
need to be stripped
from the part that they're hotelier. They need
to become individuals
that are passionate, that are have a lot
of personality,
have character. They can voice their opinion.
(32:09):
Unfortunately, you know, when I throw out my
travels or there I visit,
a Mandarin or a Rosewood or a Four
Seasons, they look all the same. I mean,
seriously, they all look the same whether they're
in a lobby or public spaces. And it's
no offense to anyone. That is the truth.
You know, I think it's important to be
truly yourself. It's all I tell you are
moving forward. Be you. You don't need to
be anyone else. You don't need to be
part of a you know, I'm a risk
(32:30):
cult ambassador, or I'm a four season ambassador,
or I'm a Mandarin Oriental ambassador. What does
Mandarin Oriental foreseeing on this culture are one
thing. They have their own culture, their own
good philosophies and values, and you are as
an individual.
You have values and philosophy that you live
by every day. So you need to
inspire. You need to inspire people. You're in
a leadership position. You need to inspire people.
(32:52):
You need to support people and, you know,
inspire the future generations to truly become themselves.
It's important to be authentic. We live I'm
interested to know to your you have some
you have a great vision for what you're
doing. And now the kind of legacy you
ex you like to leave behind because you're
doing it for quite some long time.
(33:13):
How do you see yourself in terms of
the legacy aspect of your work?
Sure. But on that note, when you asked
me about the hoteliers, I think the hotelier
needs to be himself today. That that we
live in times right now, they all look
alike. So Yeah. I think individuality is key.
Authenticity is being yourself.
Yeah. And, you know, whether whether whether you
(33:34):
fit in a brand or another brand, that
brand shouldn't be you. You should
be complementary to the brand and you should
be an individual that has a lot of
personality and character. And that's what a customer
or a targeted audience is looking for and
experiencing
when he visits your property.
That you we we just live in the
sea of sameness from the properties,
(33:55):
and that's not criticism to anybody. I'm just
being outspoken
about,
a vision that
I live by and values I live by.
And I wanna be true to the industry
I'm passionate about. But it's not criticism to
anybody. I think, you know, there are a
lot of great, hoteliers, a lot of great
companies. But we live in times where, you
know, everything started to look the same,
(34:17):
you know. And and and and and and
and and you cannot differentiate it, whether it's
a hotel, luxury hotel, or even a hotelier.
So my thing is how today is moving
forward, they need to be to themselves. You
know? You don't need to be you don't
need to look like anyone else. Just be
you.
Yeah. So that's what my vision
moving forward.
Look, I've been very fortunate, to be quite
(34:37):
honest with you. First of all, is I'm
very blessed, that I have gone to a
prestigious hotel in my early years. I had
the opportunity to work in four continents,
with great brands,
Hyatt,
Ritz Carlton,
and Campbell Gray.
And I did open with I work with
MGM.
I work with some great hoteliers that have
(34:58):
that have taught me and inspired me,
both in US and Asia Pacific.
So,
I've been very, very blessed now. And and
throughout the process that I've worked in that
corporate world,
it taught me and it showed me that
who really I am and what I'm looking
for. And I ended up working and and
then I found out that I'm an I'm
(35:19):
an entrepreneur. I have this entrepreneurial spirit. I
have this leadership and I felt like, you
know, at one point that I would do
my own company. So I'm very happy and
very blessed to do to have my very
own company.
And,
seriously, you know, it's like I've never worked
a day in my life because I'm in
love with what I do. And I do
it every day in and out with a
lot of love
and passion. And I I and it's seen
(35:42):
in the properties we do, in the business
we do, in the partners we work with,
whether it's a a brand a brand agency
or a design agency or a developer.
So
moving forward,
you asked me a question.
I'm pretty pretty happy to have my name,
that,
signed with Harvest, Tell and Tell's project that
(36:03):
it's my very own. It has a little
bit of me. A little bit of my
personality, my character, my vision
and happy to go visit these different restaurants
and different hotels that we've done and see
a little bit of me you know and
what great it is to,
to be,
working in an industry your whole entire life.
(36:24):
And we know that we put in a
lot of hours and you dedicate your life
to the industry except to just witness at
one point of your career
that there's a little bit of you in
every product you develop, whether it's a whether
it's a restaurant or hotel. Thanks for joining
us this week on The Social Hotelier Show.
Make sure to visit our website the social
hotelier show blueberry.net
(36:46):
where you can subscribe to the show in
Apple podcast,
Spotify,
Google Play or via RSS
so you never miss a show.
While you're at it, if you find value
in this show we appreciate a rating in
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Or if you simply tell a friend about
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Be sure to tune in for our next
episode.
You are listening to the Social Hotelier Show,
a podcast that inspires hoteliers to create meaningful
and memorable experiences
for their customers
in pursuit of their passion.
We share our views and experiences experiences relating
to hospitality,
technological
trends, and also relating to humanity.
Here is your host, Sam Eric Rutman.
(00:25):
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Social Hotelier
podcast with me, Sam Eric Rutman.
Has luxury hospitality lost its authenticity
in the pursuit of growth?
In this episode, we will explore the shifting
landscape of luxury hotel brands as boutique hotels
expand into major cities
in charm of of our intensity being sacrificed
(00:46):
for growth?
It it actually begs the question. And also
looking at the big players, the Giants, the
the five you sort of suspects
that has grown from maybe five brands to
45 brands, and we are a little bit
confused that, and the consumers and the development
people are a little bit confused what do
they stand for. Well, I have I'm very
thrilled. I have an excellent guest to
(01:07):
to discuss this matter,
and it's Abdul Bagheel.
He is the
prince cofounder and principal of Harvest Cottontail Hospitality
Group, and the firm is specializing in light
turn luxury turnkey solutions for hotels, restaurants,
and food rate retail.
Abdul has comes with a twenty year global
(01:28):
experience in the hospitality industry.
His work focus on integrating authentic cultural experiences
into luxury hospitality
with projects spanning in Europe, Middle East, Africa,
and Asia. So welcome, Abdul. Thanks for joining
us today.
It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you,
Sam, for having me too.
So where are you located at the moment?
(01:49):
I'm currently right now actually on a remote
area called Siwa in Egypt. We're putting up,
40 key,
authentic locally authentic complementary to the,
Amazir culture
boutique hotel.
Sorry.
Wonderful. Wonderful.
Yeah. Well, the so,
(02:12):
that's that's great that you're you're we're able
to connect while you're on your on on
location and with your project.
And,
so could you just share a little bit
with your with your own your company why
you formed formed Harvest Cottontail Hospitality Group, and,
how has the journey been,
for for when you were in in the
corporate world until you started your company?
(02:34):
Oh, absolutely.
Well, I was a hotel manager with the
Ritz Carlton Hotel Company, and then I was
a hotel manager with Paramount Hotels and Resorts.
And then I was acting general manager for
a little while.
And then I went on to become the,
managing director and consultant for Campbell Grey Hotels
in, Beirut.
So I directly worked together with,
(02:56):
himself,
Gordon Campbell Gray. And at that point, I
felt that going into that type of a
hotel, I realized that I wanted to do
something very different, probably just run a collection
of, hotels.
And I was offered this opportunity by Challenger
Limited, formerly known as Challenger Limited, now known
as,
Tapa Oil.
(03:17):
They had a subsidiary
of a number of luxury boutique hotels in
Africa, in Morocco, in Egypt, and in Mozambique.
So I was appointed as the CEO of
that group.
And the duration of five years running that
and developing it from one property to seven
properties,
I felt confident that I can go on
the journey of running my own business,
(03:37):
as an entrepreneur and be true to myself
and my values. And it's something that I've
always been passionate about is to curate and
create hotel concepts that are authentically
local,
complementary to the culture and environment.
So I took on,
the opportunity
given, and I started HarvestCon hospitality
(03:57):
group.
And,
we started that group in 02/2016
together with my business partner, Bruno Contreras, and,
it's been an exciting journey. But I'll be
very frank with you.
Throughout my career, I've also been a little
bit of a rebellious. I never liked to
wear a name tag.
I don't wanted to be part of a
whole entire uniform system.
(04:17):
And I always had these independent ideas, independent
innovative approaches when I was working in hotels.
And then, in fact, I was never part
of a club. I always sit out on
my own, and I looked at things in
a different perspective. So I knew it at
one point that I was gonna leave. I'm
not gonna I'm not gonna stay longer on
this,
(04:38):
road or journey of the corporate world.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's that's very good. I
mean, I think
you you seem to be a really
fit for to run your own,
through the vision you have and your own
company. So it's very good. And
how did I mean, just looking at the
(04:58):
the situation with running your own company,
how were you affected during the COVID? Did
that have an impact on your business at
the time? Or or
Oh, absolutely. I think, the
hotel project,
went to halt, and we kind of
everything was put on hold in terms of
the developers,
of the older properties,
(05:21):
in terms of restaurants equally.
We don't run restaurant. Back then, we didn't
run any restaurant. So the only thing that
was going on for us was the private
label that we do for, luxury food retails,
mainly in Europe and The Middle East.
And,
it was an ongoing process of further developing
products over 3,500
(05:41):
products for these,
private labels,
that are branded within the,
retail name itself.
And that went on very well. It was
an engagement contract for us. And it went
off very well for about
a good,
duration of the pandemic, you know. And,
and that's when we actually launched it. And
(06:02):
we launched it six months before the pandemic,
and it's been a great success for us.
And we're still on the private
label luxury food retail business. We're still on
that road together now. We've grown from one
brand to four brands.
Oh, excellent. Excellent. Well, it's good that you
kind of diversify
your your offerings in a way that Absolutely.
(06:24):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
You're I mean,
I read quite often you about your post
and particularly LinkedIn,
And you're sort
of a observer and frequent commentator of the
state of luxury hospital hospitality companies. And and,
yeah, now I realize that you're a little
bit of rebellion, and that's that's good. I
(06:44):
mean, we have to give up we have
to,
say how how we see it. And and
and I'm that's that's very important because to
keep keep things in in in relevant to
what what because there are many
companies who are thinking they're doing a great
job, and I'm I'm sure they are, but
also
(07:04):
has created some confusion
in consumers to where things have been developing.
So,
can you share a little bit your your
thoughts and speak about
how the influx of
major acquisitions by hospitality giants,
I'm talking about those five usual suspects, affected
the authenticity
of luxury and lifestyle brands? Have you seen
(07:26):
there any effect, or do you think they
are doing a great job?
Well, I personally think look.
Doing a great job is,
that's that's something that I look at differently.
I personally think that, in recent years,
when at one point, we only had these
traditional luxury hotels. We had the budget properties,
(07:47):
and then
you have the deluxe properties. So it was
a range of seven to eight brands, and
they've grown into the boutique lifestyle, the boutique
budget, and all that. And the reason this
major for the major giants is pretty much,
you know, market share and financial rewards, you
know, at the end of the day. But
the key you've asked me question you've asked
me is authenticity.
I think it's important to say that, you
(08:09):
know, a person that runs a Marriott or
a person that runs,
I don't know, JW Marriott or Ritz Carlton,
I don't see it fit as culture. And
I'm talking about cultivated culture running, an addition
or
or an SLS. I'm just gonna throw out
a few names. It's just because I think
it's not it's more than just a design
of a property or whether it's hip or
(08:31):
lifestyle.
I think culture is key. And the human
capital culture is very key to maintain the
authenticity of the brand. There's a brand culture,
and that brand culture is not only in
the brand values and philosophy of the brand,
it's the brand culture that counts most. And
that culture is infused is in the design
language. It's infused in the human capital.
It's they breathe it. They live it and
(08:51):
breathe it, and it's in the today day
the day to day culture of the property
itself. So I don't think that giants have
really sustained that, and that's why we're witnessing
a blur
between what luxury is and lifestyle is today.
So if you look at all the properties
that are coming up in terms of the
number of developments and that have opened in
recent years,
(09:12):
luxury versus lifestyle, there's a blur. I mean,
you cannot identify what is luxury now and
lifestyle is now. So we fall in that
pit is because of the giants continue to
further develop these properties, but they don't have
the key players
that can,
play the role of running a proper lifestyle
hotel or a luxury property.
(09:35):
Okay. So when you talk about culture,
you're you're referring to,
they are in a in a particular community,
which is maybe in a in a,
say, if it's a let's say, in Egypt
and there's one area of Egypt and you
put in a luxury property there, and then
you look you you study and understand the
community and the culture, and then you infuse
(09:58):
sort of luxury aspects which actually fits into
the
location and the and the community that they're
part of. Is that how you see it,
or or how would you do it? No.
That's one thing. That's only one element of
the whole entire spectrum. One element of the
formula itself. So the other thing is
that, you know, there there there there are
individuals that are built for a certain brand.
(10:19):
You can run a four season, you will
always be a four season person. And that's
how I'm gonna form it in form of
communication.
But there is and when I say culture,
I mean, culture of the brand, not the
country.
So Okay. The cult or or the destination.
I mean, the culture of the brand. There
culture is key. We live in times where
culture is paramount in anything we develop. So
(10:39):
when you have a brand like edition, you
have a culture of edition. So you will
have someone that fits that culture as an
individual.
So not necessary you'll not necessarily be a
four season or a Wisconsin or a j
brand or a Peninsula
gentleman. There is someone that fits that culture.
So we need to look at that culture
and further cultivate of that that culture of
the brand through its growth process
(11:01):
and authenticity through people.
So, again, you know, there is there is
the design language there, the physical part of
it, but there is the intangible part of
it that needs to be nurtured, and it
will be all nurtured through the human capital.
Okay. Is that part of a the DNA
of a brand then? Oh, a %. It's
(11:22):
part of the DNA of the brand, but
I think, you know, it needs to be
felt. People people feel it's the emotional connectedness
that counts, and the culture of the brand
itself will be felt through
all the touch points throughout the property
is through
the individuals that you have on board, whether
it's running the property
or the,
(11:43):
the human capital. But, initially, there other than
that, there is the culture of the brand,
which is,
which which needs to be, lived in or
lived with or lived by every day in
the property.
Yeah. And I don't and I personally think
giants
are not able to deliver
that. Yeah. Yeah. Could you speak a little
bit then about the elements that makes a
(12:05):
brand special, in in terms of reflection of
that, how you see the the DNA of
a brand? What what makes it special?
Well, one thing is I think when you
curate a culture,
of a brand, it is founded on the
fundamentals, which is the values, the principles, and
the philosophy. And there onwards,
(12:25):
you build on the culture of the design
itself and the design language of the property
itself, which is later on gonna mirror all
the other little details, which we call in
brand culture, whether it's in food, whether it's
in
experience, whether it's in different parts of the
property. And then again, it's added to the
human capital, whether it's in their uniforms
(12:47):
and the way they speak, the way they
talk, the way they communicate, the way they
emotionally connect with their
targeted audience or customers. And then all this
becomes into one culture, and that culture needs
to be sustained through the process. And it
needs to be continuously
curated and further developed
that it is in a full fledged
(13:07):
spectrum where you see this property has become
a brand and it has culture. Look at
it from a human standpoint. Right? I mean,
you have a person that comes from America,
someone comes from The Middle East, someone come,
from Asia Pacific. Everyone has his own culture.
It's humanized. So you humanize a property, and
you when you humanize a property, you give
it that culture. And that culture, you can
look at it from the way people behave
(13:29):
in the property,
the little details in the design language, and
and the experience itself, and the food, etcetera.
And that's what's key. But the key here,
you're asking me a question which is battle
to the process is, are the giants
able to sustain that? I think,
Accord to the certain extent is doing pretty
well with Enosmore,
but I think others are not. But, again,
(13:50):
we're throwing up these billboards,
with marketing,
splash, and we have all these names and
promoting properties left and right and saying it's
lifestyle, but we're the deliverables in terms of
experience and culture.
Yeah. Yeah. So,
is there a position like a chief cultural
officer who would have
(14:11):
to dig into all those things to make
sure? Or how does it work?
Well, I think, you know, I you you
you have it in certain hotel companies. You
have a chief cultural officer, but you do
need a cultural
you wanna call it a dream in a
culture officer or a culture ambassador, however you
wanna call it. But, there there has to
be a person or a a cultural department
with the head of the department driving the
(14:33):
culture through communication, through
marketing, through
spirit, through experience,
through uniforms,
through the little details, touch points. It's important
to have that because it's critical
in this day and age where many discerning
travelers are looking at the,
they they wanna connect. They wanna they want
(14:54):
something that resonates
with them. You know? So Yeah. I think
it's just important to have that and that
some companies do it. But, again, the question
here is, are they
are the deliverable deliverables in place? No. It's
not. You know, we hear them. We see
them. We we witness. No. We we we
read them. We hear about them. But are
they do you do you actually connect with
(15:16):
these deliverables when you are in the in
the physical property? No. It's not.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
How do you go about it in your,
in your,
in your group when you come out, you
have a property, and you have a property
or a project?
How do you go about this to
to so it fits into then when people
arrive as a customer one day, they they
(15:37):
really feel that the sense of place that
they have right to have one particular location
that relates to the culture.
Oh, that's an excellent question. Actually, we have
processes we start with. The first thing we
start with is brand and brand culture. We
look at the location.
We see what the develop the potential developer
is trying to put up as a property.
We're here to,
we we we spend quality time with the
(15:58):
developers and their vision and what are the
end results, whether it's part of a real
estate development,
is it to benefit the sale of the
mansions, the villas, or whatever it is. So
we we need to those we need to
put those into perspective,
and then we get involved with the community,
the local community. We hear stories. We go
to different corners, you know, taste food, look
at this retail store, look at the,
(16:19):
stories around the corners in that local community.
And then we go ahead and, you know,
we engage with the brand
brand backslash design
firm. I don't wanna mention a name, but
I mean, there are a lot of great
ones whether The UK or The US.
We sub we submit our vision as the
developer I I sorry, as the as the
concept developer and,
(16:41):
our vision and our,
how do we see the property and what
are the details and the little things you'd
like to see in the property. And then
we develop together with the brand agency
and design design agency the whole entire culture,
hand in hand.
And that and why do we have an
agency that does both? Because
(17:02):
the brand agency that's gonna develop the culture
will need to translate that culture or transmit
that culture into the design language. So they
both need to work one in one.
And we'd go through that process, and that's
the first stage that we do.
So we develop a culture. And that that
culture comes in in the document,
whether it's gonna be a 50 pages or
it's gonna be, 200 pages.
(17:24):
That's not the point. The point is that
we have all the elements
that covers the culture of the property.
So, Abdul, I'm interested to, to learn how
and could you speak about how you go
about
when you are going to a
new location that is a brand
is new to you,
(17:45):
and, there is maybe
a greenfield project.
And
how what is the process when you are
discussing with the the landowner or the investor
how to develop a project that will also
incorporate
the
the the culture aspects that you are talking
about, the design, etcetera. So you can speak
(18:06):
about that. So we under so we understand
your your thinking about how you go about
in in developing new projects.
Oh, absolutely.
Well, after example, so where we do there
are two ways we're doing. We usually, we
for the most part of it, our properties
the hotel properties we develop are in more
of, real estate, development destinations.
(18:29):
That's a gated community plus,
whole entire leisure, retail, and hotel.
But in some,
cases, we've also done, urban,
and in an urban setting,
where we've developed a boutique hotel of 30
keys in the middle of the city where
it's more like a SoHo hip,
neighborhood.
In those in that case, when it's an
(18:50):
urban property and within the neighborhood like SoHo
or any hip neighborhood,
usually it's an existing building,
that the owner has acquired and,
pretty much, you know,
it's gutted down, but, design has not even
not commenced yet. And we usually come in
(19:11):
as,
the first to be on board,
to
come on board and then present a few
brand agencies
and design led designers and brand,
and, start working on the,
capital,
investment,
and,
obviously,
the other details. So in that case, the
(19:31):
first thing we do is we start with
the whole entire brand process. And usually, I
prefer to work with an agency that does
both brand and design,
because culture is key and culture needs to
be both in in in brand and in
design. And, we commence the story
with looking to property where it's located and
its neighboring,
(19:55):
areas and the location of the property itself
in terms of the culture of the street,
the culture of the neighbor,
the retail part of it,
the food restaurant, independent restaurant part of it,
the music part of it,
the lifestyle of the whole entire neighborhood. And
that is already a culture on its own.
So the neighborhood is a culture. So we
pick that culture of the neighborhood and we
(20:15):
kind of
infuse it or transmit it into the property,
but not entirely because we want the brand
also to contain at least an independent
compliment to the neighborhood itself. So we go
with the brand about 60%. If I have
to do it in a percentage size, I
will say, we will take 40% of the
neighborhood, infuse it into the property, and 60%
(20:37):
of the brand culture will be independent
of its own yet complementary
to the destination where it is.
And we developed the brand through that process
where, obviously, you know, whether it's a uniform
and all the details be complimentary to the
to the to the neighborhood itself. But again,
that,
that that 60%,
independence
(20:57):
is the brand itself. Let's call it, for
instance, Hotel Joe. So it has to be
or or or or or let or let's
call it,
the foundry. So it has to be within
the story of the foundry. What is the
foundry? Where is the story of the foundry?
The details of the foundry. So we develop
a story of a foundry that's complimentary to
the neighborhood and what the foundry is as
(21:19):
an independent culture to the property itself.
And,
and then we create a character. So we
humanize the property through the brand culture itself.
We create characters, personality to the brand,
language to the brand,
form of communication to the brand, the way
people speak, the way people act, the way
people in the
(21:39):
people's attitudes are. We believe in individuality.
We don't wanna humanize people. We don't want
them to be anything else but themselves. So
we're we're firm believers of that in any
property we develop.
So, individuality is key, character is key. So
we develop a culture through that, you know.
And usually, in those cases is we primarily
look at, the culture itself and how will
(22:00):
that culture be very easy to infuse into
the human capital.
And then in tandem, we work with the
design language of the property. So these are
the first stages we do.
Good. Now and then then the actual
operation and of the property when it's
completed, is that can be handled
as an independent brand, or is it gonna
(22:22):
be handed over
through agreement with a one of the commercial
hotel companies who will operate it.
Okay. And, the cases we've done and the
properties
that we have developed, it,
actually, it is independent hotels that are run
by owners.
Okay. And the appointed general manager that reports
(22:43):
to the holding company,
in most cases, it's like, you know, it's
a private equity company that has a few
holdings, you know,
in different industries. But they have a division
where it's hospitality
run by one manager director and a few
teams, and then they have one, two, three
properties.
And usually, the general manager would report to
those, to the person in charge of hospitality.
(23:05):
That's the case. But,
not never never we have made a property
that has that independent personality, independent individuality,
character, and culture that's ever been part of,
a brand
because in in most cases, it doesn't work
that way.
But we have been involved in in in
in the process where we've been asked if
we know, if we can suggest a a
(23:27):
hotel company, whether it's luxury, traditional luxury lifestyle
or boutique
that would come and operate,
a property for, an upcoming development who have
been in those in those cases or in
those situations
where we've been asked by a potential client.
But the actual concepts we do are independent
concept. It has some culture, its own values,
(23:48):
philosophy,
and design and look and feel. And it's
very and it's very, very difficult for anyone
to acquire it because if they do acquire
it to be run by one of the
lifestyle hotels of the giants,
then you know what? You're gonna you're we're
gonna go back to the same thing that
I've been always arguing about is that, you
know, you're gonna kill the authenticity.
You're gonna lose the culture, and we're gonna
(24:09):
go back again into the autopilot properties where
you press the button and, you know, in
and out, and then everything else is on
collateral and billboards.
Okay. That that's very interesting. So,
so how do you see I mean,
when we look at the comp set and
the competitive set of a particular hotel that
is that you had that you have conceptualized
(24:31):
and so on, it runs independently.
But but normally in that if it's an
urban environment,
what kind of concept do these
hotels have? I mean, I'm I'm asking very
generally just to understand that,
who who are the when the customers are
choosing the location where they're gonna stay, they
have a, obviously, a wonderful choice to stay
in one of those hotel that you have
(24:51):
conceptualized, and it's an independent hotel.
May there are other hotels in the area.
In terms of comparable, in terms of luxury
experience or whatever it is,
who who is the comp set in in
in, if you would have to name a
few?
Would you like me to mention the brands
or,
just, Yeah. You can. Yes. Sure. Alright. So
it's very simple. Actually, we're very fortunate because
(25:13):
we're a very well rounded team. We have
excellent FNB,
excellent culinary,
excellent operation,
excellent
vision team, excellent brand culture and and design
and design agency that we work with. So
we're very well rounded. So having said that,
we are in the luxury segment.
The properties we have developed for our clients
(25:34):
have done very well in terms of ADR
and RevPAR.
And additionally,
that, you know, any properties we've done in
terms of the competitive set, you know, we
have competed. Even with less number of rooms,
we've competed with, you know, the traditional luxury
hotel companies
convention in terms of rate up there with,
a four season property or a or or
(25:56):
a Mandarin in terms of the room rates,
you know.
And we've done very well in getting the
occupancy up. So I think where my
I would be interested to understand,
when,
when you hire and
and, and and train
with this particular brand in mind, how do
(26:16):
you ensure the leadership and the stay staff
at the new properties
embody the brand's culture and values? Because it's
obviously the key that they are they are
it's not only the the manual and and
the vision that has been created, but actually
get them,
on board. And the and the kind of
training programs that need to be put in
place in order that it actually
(26:37):
that the result is exactly what the vision
was.
And that's another ex excellent question. And I'm
gonna go back to the values and fundamentals
I have mentioned,
with Harvest, Cut and Tell. Yes. We put
up great hotel concepts in F and B.
But again, at the end of the day,
we'd like
a great training and a very solid
(26:57):
training and,
a great selection of,
ladies and gentlemen or people.
It would have been a success. So we
do have an extensive hands on training program,
in place,
that we do, whether it's in rooms, food
and beverage, or,
back of the house, or,
finance,
(27:17):
marketing, etcetera. So we have a very structured
process
that goes up to,
sixty days,
prior to preopening. Remember, we don't do properties
for less than 200 key we don't do
properties for more than 200 keys. We do
properties from 20 to 200 keys. We wanna
remain true to ourselves and our culture. So
the hands on trainings are done, on a
(27:38):
longer period because of one simple reason.
We don't look at resumes and hire people,
that have experiences
at x hotel or,
one another luxury hotel, etcetera. We don't wanna
inherit cultures. This is key. We don't wanna
inherit cultures of other properties.
If I'm gonna go and tell you my
(27:58):
deliverables and authenticity need to be there, then
I need to be true to myself and
say, I'm not gonna inherit people from other
cultures. So what we're looking for, first of
all, is attitude and leadership. And leadership does
not stop only becoming a leader a a
great leader or as a job manager, you
know, because you could have that charisma and
leadership whether you're a doorman or a server
or an agent and sense of ownership.
(28:19):
So having said that, we usually prefer
that people that have somehow some experience in
the hospitality industry,
but not necessarily with a hotel background and
have also other interests
than just working in the hospitality,
industry, which I need that, you know, I
usually prefer, whether we hire an FMB or
(28:41):
in in in rooms or anywhere else, is
individuals that have a lot of personal interest,
meaning by photographer,
has interest in art, has interest in music,
a jazz listener,
plays music, etcetera.
Because that's culture. And that culture, people that
have culture,
individuals that have a lot of culture, that
are exposed to culture.
(29:02):
Because these are the individuals that are emotionally
gonna connect with potential customers
and speak about their travels, speak about music
that are culturally
developed to engage into a conversation.
You know, nobody wants to come and meet
you and say, you know, wearing a name
tag and say, you know, I am,
I'm a gentleman that works for X hotel
and I've been with the company for twenty
(29:23):
years and all I know is, like, I'm
a technical person. We have this property in
London. We have this property in Tokyo. Who's
interested anyway? Who cares?
You know? People wanna know about the destination
you're in. I wanna go to a great
jazz bar. Do I have to go to
a concert? No. You don't have to go
to a concert. I can ask the server.
He can tell me what a great jazz
bar is. I can wanna buy this amazing
guitar that I have that I have seen
(29:44):
this picture on my iPhone, and I don't
know where to get it. Would you know
where I can get it? You know what
I mean? So,
there's a cultured individuals. We look at cultured
individuals that are very, very well oriented with
their neighborhood, culture of their country, and individual
cultures with their music, art,
opera, whatever it is. We look at these
individuals. The technical part is easy. We're able.
(30:05):
We have a very good solid team that
can do the technical part, and we go
through the technical part and through countdown. We
usually we've had we've had great openings, and
we've had openings which have been a little
bit kind of rough. But again, the key
here is it takes almost another six to
seven, eight months on the day to day
operations after your opening to truly, truly have
(30:26):
culture in place and to truly, truly have
operation
run like a clock. But again, you know,
we're not gonna always gonna run a fair
job manager or or as I mentioned earlier
or the managing director of the property
because we hire leaders
and people that have a lot of culture,
a lot of charisma, a lot of leadership,
whether it's a doorman or a server. So
(30:46):
there's a sense of ownership from the opening.
So the process goes even faster.
Okay. Very good. Now,
I think my question is that because, you
know, you are you are quite different to
many of the hotel brands who have already
are set in a certain way. There's their
uniformity
and so on.
What what are the besides what we have
(31:07):
talked about, what are the trends do you
see happening in hospitality
that hoteliers should take note of? What do
you see going on? And looking at the
looking at the maybe at the future, where
do you see it going?
I personally think, you know, this this term
hotelier. I mean, I'm a hotelier also, and
I've graduated from a hotel school in Switzerland.
They also finished up my graduate studies at
(31:28):
the, European University of Montclair.
For the longest time, I've I've I've been
hearing it ever since the start of my
career with Hyatt at San Francisco until my
last post in hotel, hotelier, hotelier, hotelier.
I think it had just become became so
so so uniformed
that, you know,
it is sorry sorry to say it, but
(31:48):
modern day,
stripped out of your individuality
and character, and you belong to this group
called hotelier. I personally think need they don't
need to be stripped
from the part that they're hotelier. They need
to become individuals
that are passionate, that are have a lot
of personality,
have character. They can voice their opinion.
(32:09):
Unfortunately, you know, when I throw out my
travels or there I visit,
a Mandarin or a Rosewood or a Four
Seasons, they look all the same. I mean,
seriously, they all look the same whether they're
in a lobby or public spaces. And it's
no offense to anyone. That is the truth.
You know, I think it's important to be
truly yourself. It's all I tell you are
moving forward. Be you. You don't need to
be anyone else. You don't need to be
part of a you know, I'm a risk
(32:30):
cult ambassador, or I'm a four season ambassador,
or I'm a Mandarin Oriental ambassador. What does
Mandarin Oriental foreseeing on this culture are one
thing. They have their own culture, their own
good philosophies and values, and you are as
an individual.
You have values and philosophy that you live
by every day. So you need to
inspire. You need to inspire people. You're in
a leadership position. You need to inspire people.
(32:52):
You need to support people and, you know,
inspire the future generations to truly become themselves.
It's important to be authentic. We live I'm
interested to know to your you have some
you have a great vision for what you're
doing. And now the kind of legacy you
ex you like to leave behind because you're
doing it for quite some long time.
(33:13):
How do you see yourself in terms of
the legacy aspect of your work?
Sure. But on that note, when you asked
me about the hoteliers, I think the hotelier
needs to be himself today. That that we
live in times right now, they all look
alike. So Yeah. I think individuality is key.
Authenticity is being yourself.
Yeah. And, you know, whether whether whether you
(33:34):
fit in a brand or another brand, that
brand shouldn't be you. You should
be complementary to the brand and you should
be an individual that has a lot of
personality and character. And that's what a customer
or a targeted audience is looking for and
experiencing
when he visits your property.
That you we we just live in the
sea of sameness from the properties,
(33:55):
and that's not criticism to anybody. I'm just
being outspoken
about,
a vision that
I live by and values I live by.
And I wanna be true to the industry
I'm passionate about. But it's not criticism to
anybody. I think, you know, there are a
lot of great, hoteliers, a lot of great
companies. But we live in times where, you
know, everything started to look the same,
(34:17):
you know. And and and and and and
and and you cannot differentiate it, whether it's
a hotel, luxury hotel, or even a hotelier.
So my thing is how today is moving
forward, they need to be to themselves. You
know? You don't need to be you don't
need to look like anyone else. Just be
you.
Yeah. So that's what my vision
moving forward.
Look, I've been very fortunate, to be quite
(34:37):
honest with you. First of all, is I'm
very blessed, that I have gone to a
prestigious hotel in my early years. I had
the opportunity to work in four continents,
with great brands,
Hyatt,
Ritz Carlton,
and Campbell Gray.
And I did open with I work with
MGM.
I work with some great hoteliers that have
(34:58):
that have taught me and inspired me,
both in US and Asia Pacific.
So,
I've been very, very blessed now. And and
throughout the process that I've worked in that
corporate world,
it taught me and it showed me that
who really I am and what I'm looking
for. And I ended up working and and
then I found out that I'm an I'm
(35:19):
an entrepreneur. I have this entrepreneurial spirit. I
have this leadership and I felt like, you
know, at one point that I would do
my own company. So I'm very happy and
very blessed to do to have my very
own company.
And,
seriously, you know, it's like I've never worked
a day in my life because I'm in
love with what I do. And I do
it every day in and out with a
lot of love
and passion. And I I and it's seen
(35:42):
in the properties we do, in the business
we do, in the partners we work with,
whether it's a a brand a brand agency
or a design agency or a developer.
So
moving forward,
you asked me a question.
I'm pretty pretty happy to have my name,
that,
signed with Harvest, Tell and Tell's project that
(36:03):
it's my very own. It has a little
bit of me. A little bit of my
personality, my character, my vision
and happy to go visit these different restaurants
and different hotels that we've done and see
a little bit of me you know and
what great it is to,
to be,
working in an industry your whole entire life.
(36:24):
And we know that we put in a
lot of hours and you dedicate your life
to the industry except to just witness at
one point of your career
that there's a little bit of you in
every product you develop, whether it's a whether
it's a restaurant or hotel. Thanks for joining
us this week on The Social Hotelier Show.
Make sure to visit our website the social
hotelier show blueberry.net
(36:46):
where you can subscribe to the show in
Apple podcast,
Spotify,
Google Play or via RSS
so you never miss a show.
While you're at it, if you find value
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Or if you simply tell a friend about
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