January 25, 2025 • 40 mins
The Wellness Industry Exposed: What Most Hotels Get Wrong.
Join Sam-Erik Ruttmann on The Social Hotelier Podcast as he dives into wellness and hospitality innovation with Celine Vadam of WeThink. Explore how wellness-centric hotel designs, technology-driven spa treatments, and inclusive experiences are reshaping the wellness industry. Discover actionable insights on collaborating with architects, using localized spa products, and making wellness retreats accessible for everyone."
Our conversation tackles critical topics such as Wellness consultancy best practices, designing wellness spaces with authenticity and inclusivity, enhancing collaboration between consultants and designers, and leveraging technology to make wellness accessible to broader audiences.
Celine highlights the importance of strong concepts before design execution to avoid cookie-cutter solutions and discusses the role of personalized, locally inspired offerings in creating impactful guest experiences.
Key Takeaways:
Prioritize Concept Development: Establish a clear vision and feasibility study for wellness projects before engaging designers.
Innovate with Technology: Incorporate well-tech solutions, such as sensory pods and compression therapy, to provide impactful, cost-effective wellness experiences.
Foster Inclusivity: Design spaces welcoming to diverse demographics, from all ages to varying fitness levels.
Leverage Local Elements: Use locally sourced materials and scents to create memorable, unique offerings.
Avoid Overlooking Details: Ensure wellness spaces, like saunas, meet high standards of functionality and comfort.
This episode provides actionable insights for hoteliers, wellness professionals, and innovators eager to redefine the wellness experience. Stay tuned for more thought-provoking conversations! Send us your questions by emailing Celine Vadam, inkedin.com/in/celine-vadam or Sam-Erik Ruttmann, email, sameriks@gmail.com Add in the subject line: Wellness Question
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Well, I think one of the main issue
is that,
architect and designers
sometimes come too early in the process.
So they come and they've already designed something
without having,
like, a commercial concept,
like, given to them. So they're just designing
(00:20):
based of the space they have
and not on the space the hotel need
for just spa wellness offering.
So
that causes issue because that's that causes first
a lot of copy pasting. When you look
at spads
today, they're they all look the same. Hi,
everyone. Welcome back to the Social Hotelier podcast
(00:41):
with me, Samirik Ruthman,
where we explain the intersection of hospitality,
humanity, and technology. Today, we are diving deep
into the transformative world of wellness with our
second episode with my guest, Celine Vadam.
Celine is the founder of WeThink, a forward
thinking consultancy dedicated
to wellness, environment, and innovation.
(01:03):
In this episode, we will discuss the unique
challenges,
opportunities of collaborating with architects and designers on
wellness centric projects as Celine has a great
deal of experience being part of conceptualizing
these different,
projects.
And, also, we'll talk about the state of
the wellness and industry.
How to how to make it more impactful,
inclusive, or accessible,
(01:24):
Meaning that there's can be a sort of
a high gate for many people of whether
they will
be going to a retreat or or a
wellness as
they may not feel fully comfortable or not
sure what they're getting into. So it will
be interesting to share get Celine's input on
what are the responsibilities and opportunities now for
(01:44):
these, well the wellness industry in general and
maybe specifically some,
operators, what they could do better in order
to make fee feel
people more comfortable to joining their
programs.
So whether you're a hotelier, wellness enthusiast, or
someone curious about creating spaces that foster the
true well-being,
this is an episode you don't want to
(02:05):
miss. So welcome, Celine, and thanks for joining
for our second episode. Thank you, Samirik.
So let's, maybe just get started here.
You have worked with architects and designers and
and and collaborating with them in designing,
spas or wellness
(02:26):
places. So what unique challenges and opportunities
do you face when collaborating with architects and
designers
on to ensure that they align with the
vision you have?
Well, I think one of the main issue
is that,
architect and designers
sometimes come too early in the process.
(02:46):
So they come and they've already designed something
without having,
like, a commercial concept,
like, given to them. So they're just designing
based of the space they have
and not on the space the hotel need
for the spa wellness offering.
So
(03:07):
that causes
issue because that's that causes first a lot
of copy pasting. When you look at spats
today, they're they all look the same.
Like, of course, the
design is different. The
the colors are different. The materials are different,
but, basically, it's all the same, like, more
or less the same services and the same
(03:28):
facilities there.
So it's not really, like,
used as a added value as a and
a differentiation
point for the property as it could be
and as it should be, actually, to really
have an impactful
and authentic
and,
(03:49):
like,
I'm losing my word. And,
and, yeah, like, an financially viable offer. Because
if everybody is doing the same thing, like,
what what are you offering that's different than
others?
So it's it's really and and that's, and,
also, like, when,
when clients come with,
(04:11):
RFPs
to
to get, like, a wellness consultant, they don't
really see the wellness consultant
as
a creative person. They see the
the wellness consultant more
as a tick box or technical person.
And I think that's also wrong. Like, you
shouldn't
leave the
(04:31):
wellness concept to the designers. They are not
wellness experts. They are design experts.
So you wouldn't leave them to create your
menu at your restaurant
or to tell you which f and b
concepts you're gonna you're gonna have. So why
are you letting them
decide
(04:52):
the menu of your spa, like, for the
facilities you're having? So it's kind of the
same idea.
So I think that,
yeah, so it's not the architects and designers
sport. It's like, a sometime on the owners
are
want to have the design first,
and then, like,
there's a lot of back and forth that
(05:13):
could be avoided by, I think, first. And
I'm
talking about wellness, but I'm talking about hotels
in general. You know? Like,
doing your research, your feasibility
study,
and your hotel concept and wellness concept, if
you have a hotel with a wellness concept,
before.
(05:34):
And then, like, this can inform
the design and, like,
of course, you need to have an idea
of the,
like, the land that you're working with, the
area you're working with,
but you don't need to have all the
walls fixed
right away. I think you need first to
have your
concepts
(05:54):
and then, like, you can
and that would help actually designers
to
and and make a more straightforward and,
and efficient design process too.
Yeah. In ideal situation,
if you like to put sort of a
timeline
at of each step,
what would
(06:15):
what would you start the the starting point
of the feasibility, etcetera? I mean, where would
you come in as a
as a as a concept creator on on
this? So are you coming on as a
first step already?
Are there any other consultants that you should
that should be involved?
Is there a branding
expert that will be coming in? Or or
just your your thoughts of how you think
(06:37):
in the in the perfect world things should
work.
Well, if we're talking about
wellness concepts in general, and I am not
I I'm using the word wellness and not
the word spa
because a lot of you know, it's it's
a bit different. Like, the spa in general,
like, these days, it's just,
you know, like,
(06:59):
when the hotel is,
conceptualized,
it's the room first
and then the f and b, and then
there's some space laced with putting the spa.
And so, like and then, like, it's hotels
who say, oh, we want to be a
wellness hotel. It's like, yeah. But wellness is
kind of the last thing you're putting in
with the remaining square meters you have. So
(07:21):
I'm not sure this is really,
you know, the most important thing in your
concept.
So I I think that it should come
like,
and and it depends also who you're working
with. Like, of course, if you're just if
you're working with a cons a spa consultant
who's
only doing the spa,
they will come a bit later in the
(07:43):
process.
But,
like, I I I do, like, overall
consultancy. So I work not just on the
spa, but on the overall
project and the overall hotel,
and, like, the rooms and the FNB and
everything. So I like to come in as
early as possible
so then I can work together with the
(08:05):
designer
and, like, bring them, you know, like, how
many rooms do we need? How many f
and b spaces? Like, what size of spa
do we need?
How many,
like, facilities, infrastructures.
So then there are a bit
more information about what they need to,
like, include.
(08:25):
And then it's a discussion or okay. This
will fit. This will not fit
the rooms. If you want rooms that big,
then we need to have a bit less
or but at least they they have some
guidance. It's not just, you know, like, starting
from scratch.
And the guidance they have is not driven
just by,
(08:46):
you know,
the plot of land. It's driven by the
market,
by define
by the,
the concept itself of the hotel. And that's
and I think having
that, like, strong base before
helps also
first avoid having copy paste properties,
(09:09):
Avoid also
having properties without,
like,
character or without a proper identity
because then it becomes sometimes the identity of
the designer.
Like, so much as you walk in, you
know who designed them. You know who designed
the space.
And, also, like, it's it keeps the like,
(09:32):
it gives the
an identity also without necessarily putting a brand.
So then after, you can associate a brand.
But that means that because in in general,
in these initial stages, you don't always know
which brand you're gonna go with,
And then you don't also want to
(09:53):
design your property
based on a specific
brand because you don't know, like,
you know, like, maybe, like, after a while,
this brand is not
a good like, some sometimes what I found
is that owners
find the brand that wants them and not,
like, work to get the brands that they
(10:14):
want. Yeah. And so, like, in this
in this
relationship,
it's, like, they are compromising
what they want to to do or to
build
to attract
a brand, like
and,
instead of having, like, something
(10:35):
strong that then they can sell to to
brands and attract the brand that will be
the best brand for their project.
And so, like, I think that, like, having,
again, like, this strong concept upfront
helps attracting the right brand,
the right designer that will give the property,
(10:55):
like, a strong identity that will also resist
the test of time.
Because, otherwise, you will have something that's
yeah. You will have a product that's nice,
but that will probably
like this
identity that will make it, like a landmark
or like a, you know, like,
(11:16):
like a like a specific
location in its
destination or, like, a broader
area.
Yeah.
I
I talked to some time ago, with a
brand agency, and I was pretty sure whether
that would be the right fit to bring
into a
a new project, whether it's a hotel project
or resort project. But I learned something from
(11:38):
him, which I found quite interesting and refreshing
the way he spoke about it. He said
that, you know, I only I asked sort
of very,
three questions or we think when we think
about the, new project that, like,
like, who are you?
Then that would answer very basically what this
place is all about. And then is it
who is it for? And I think this
is gonna take maybe quite easy to answer
(12:00):
the
the
second question that who who we imagine this
services would be for. But the third one
is actually very different difficult is why does
it matter? So how does it differentiate
to anybody else? And I think we all
and that is the thing that we're maybe
not always spending enough time on to make
that differentiation.
(12:21):
And and that's where what you have talking
about, the
cookie cut,
cookie paste
solutions come very easily because they want to
kinda get started, finish quickly, and move on
to the next thing. Yeah. And I think
that to to your point, like, sometime the
in the India hospitality industry, we are scared
(12:41):
to,
you know, like, have a a focus or
to, like,
to have an identity
because we think that if we attract
as many
people or different people as possible,
it will ensure us to have, like,
like, revenues and occupancy
and,
but
(13:02):
it's it's like,
it's like with everything. You know? Like, sometimes
it's better to have maybe a little bit
less people or more, like, focused,
like, target of clients,
but coming, like, regularly and coming and having
maybe a higher ADR. It's not just a
question of
volume and having the largest audience as possible,
(13:24):
but you have the most
also, like, engaged audience as possible. People who
will come back, who will be loyal to
your to your property, who will bring their
friends, their family, their, etcetera.
It's not like being, like, a one size
fits all and being, like, a people pleaser.
(13:46):
Like, the hospitality
industry is very people pleasing.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We want everybody. Everybody come
and everybody enjoy. I mean Yeah. In reality,
doesn't work. But I some notice something that,
you know, there used to be a time
when we had a hotel comp management company
had 4 brands. 1 was for the budget
or economy,
and then you have a
(14:08):
up
upscale upper upscale and the luxury.
And now when you try to figure out
what these brands are all about, you see
if you look at the old it's like
their usual suspects, the large
conglomerate.
They have 46 brands. And they come up
with a new brand
quite often. And because they have cut such
a narrow niche of, oh, okay. We want
(14:28):
to attract
the dog owners, and we want to con
have this very cabin style of
experience.
Okay. We can fit the dog owner and
the cabin style
of and then let's make it a brand
out of it. And so then then they
look for people who have created similar brands
and say, okay. We'll off make an offer.
(14:49):
We'll buy your brand for this much, and
then they have the have the work done
already, and then they start to put into
their huge distribution
network and so on. But,
to the point that, I mean, what is
your thoughts on on,
what I call
branded or designed,
wellness places, which has go under the umbrella
(15:11):
of
fragrance
or,
or facial creams or or so on? What
are you what is your thoughts on that?
Because I see quite a bit of that
as a as
a easy solution trying to figure out that
we have a great spa or great wellness
product.
Yeah. Well, we touch base.
We we talked about that a bit more
(15:33):
in detail last time during the last conversation.
But,
like, as you say, like, it's sometimes a
quick fix,
and,
I see sometimes, like,
like, brands, like, that are not really the
right fit for a specific property because they
don't
the values don't align. The type of clients
(15:56):
don't align.
So, like, the the the goal for like,
to have, like, a a, like,
like, successful, like,
retail, like, cosmetics brands,
for spice to be able then to sell
the the retail as well. So to provide,
like, a good,
good quality
(16:17):
service and massage. And, and at the end
of the day, you know, I was speaking
with,
a lot of spa directors,
and they were telling me that
at the end, like,
in terms of
quality or, like, effectiveness
of cosmetic brands,
they're kind of all the same. You know?
Like, there's not one specific, you know, like,
(16:40):
one, like, magic cream that will make you
look like, I don't know, like,
10:10 or 20 years younger just because you
applied or they're all, like, more or less
they all work.
So it's not like there's, like,
some that are really, like,
the most performing, and you can really, really
(17:01):
see, like, it's, like, significant
results compared to the others.
It's more than a question of,
like, brand values,
ingredients used,
and, like, sourcing of the ingredients,
the type of treatments, like and and now
I even have, like, a, like, spas who
(17:22):
don't even use, like,
brands. You know? Like, they're using local products,
especially for body treatments.
For facial, it's a bit different. But for
body treatments, we're using, like, local,
locally sourced products. Like, you can do, like,
really cool
scrubbing with just, like, a honey
(17:44):
and and sugar or,
or, like, they yeah. They're they're sourcing
local
essential oils and,
like, oils that we're blending
or and and so, like, they're really bypassing
the
the the, like, the brands
to also offer more personalized experience. Because once
(18:05):
if you have, like, these products,
locally sourced,
First, you have, like, a more,
like, local experience because your products are from
the place.
And you can also be like, offer more
personalization
because then you can
add, like, the
the the fragrance, like, the the smell that
(18:27):
you like or, like, the texture that the
clients like or so it allows you, like,
more flexibility.
Yep. I would say that's really that a
a but but more more and more people
are looking for that kind of experience. If
you go to an area which has is
well known for certain thing, maybe the soil
condition or they have salt or and then
(18:49):
the herbs, which are from that area, whatnot,
I mean, and create that product around that.
I think that's a a,
that's what I call differentiation to a
get out rather than getting a one of
the famous brands to have their label on
it.
Just as a side note, you know, I
always get,
(19:10):
I start to smile when I go to
the department store and,
not with me. My wife, sometime go and
buy some of the facial creams, and they
look at me offering
antiaging. So I think, oh, let's thank you
very much. I'm glad you're thinking of me
now.
Yeah. And, you know, you'll always
have, like, your
the like, some brands that are really, like,
(19:31):
high selling.
Yeah. And you put them and you're sure
that you're gonna do, like, a lot of
retail with
them. And,
and, also, like, you and you will also
have,
clients who you know, I remember I was
in Iceland, and someone wanted to drink some
Japanese,
(19:52):
Japanese
whiskey in Iceland. And I said, they're they're
they have, like, some really cool Icelandic,
like,
alcohol.
So why don't
you why don't you want to try the
Icelandic alcohol? But so you always gonna have
like that or someone who wants to, I
don't know, like, eat sushi
in
(20:13):
in the mountain instead of having a raclette.
You know? Yeah. But,
but the the point is,
yeah, like, the the
choosing the brand depending on your market is
is very important,
because depending on where the people are from,
also their budget.
You know? Like, if you put a brand
(20:34):
that is too expensive,
or too cheap, you you're not gonna have
the the retail results that you want.
So I think that the
decision to work with certain cosmetic brands,
at the spa, like, just for the wellness
offering in general too, you know, like, what
(20:55):
types of,
like, lifestyle or, like, you know, in the
boutique, what are you having?
Depends really on,
on your market.
Sure. Sure.
K. Very good. Now
you have been around,
in the wellness industry for a while, and
you have seen,
what's going on. And, I'm kind of curious
(21:18):
to learn
your thoughts on if you could revolutionize
one aspect of the wellness industry to make
it more impactful,
inclusive, or accessible,
what would it be and and why why
why would it be?
I think that,
I'd like to work more like, I love
working with the luxury space,
but I think there's a big,
(21:41):
like, there are there's a big market for,
like, corporate
and for, like,
lower scale hotels. Like like, wellness and, like,
health is shouldn't be something that's,
like, reserved for, like, people who have money.
I think it should be, like, accessible to
everybody.
(22:02):
And I think that there's so much opportunity,
especially now with
with,
like, technology.
And just one thing of the, like, wellness
department
is that it's,
stuff heavy.
And but now, like, with the Wild Tech,
you
can have, like, some cool and very efficient
(22:25):
machines
that can provide some very interesting treatments. Like,
I've tried these,
I think I mentioned last time, this hotel
in Miami, the Carrion Hotel,
where we have, like, a WellTech,
like, a few circuits
with, like, machines.
And,
(22:45):
like, I was really impressed by some of
the the machines and how, like, effective they
were for,
like, mental health
and for, like, helping your skin regeneration.
And so I there there are things that
hotels can
can put in their properties
(23:05):
even if they are even if they are
not,
like, luxury properties that guests can use, like,
on demand.
And,
like,
the the the companies who sell this,
especially if it's, like, a new product on
the market, they are, in general, quite flexible
and quite good at,
(23:26):
building, like, a real partnership with the hotels
and having, like, a commercial
agreement that's really, like, beneficial
for
for both.
So you don't use like, some, like, you
don't have to buy the machine. You can
lease it, or you can have, like,
a revenue share of the of the profits.
So it's like low maintenance,
(23:48):
low staffing,
and it can provide a wellness experience
to your guests.
And
you don't have to charge, like, a lot
of money for these experiences.
Well, I think that technology is really,
yeah,
technologies is is can really help, like,
(24:09):
make the, like, wellness more mainstream.
Could you just, explain a little bit more
about
your your example,
let's say, from a Miami.
What do you mean about the machines? What
are they all about since I haven't seen
them? So I would be curious to understand.
Yeah. So, like,
so one of those so you do you
(24:30):
have, like, different circuits?
I don't remember each, like, circuit's name. I
think there was one for more, like, relaxation,
one more
energizing,
and another one.
And
and and so, like, the so you were
taken by, like, the the spa,
like, a spa attendant
(24:52):
to, like, each,
machine. So they were dropping you and then,
like, picking you up after to go to
the next one. And so, like, one machine,
for example, like, one was
a like,
you like, it's how do I explain that?
It's like like you were laying down
(25:13):
and you have one machine like, I had
one machine on my hand that was working,
you know, like acupuncture
on acupuncture
points in my hand,
and then the other one was doing, like,
like, energy waves,
so very relaxing.
One that I really loved, it's called the
soma dome, and it's like a
(25:35):
like a like a armchair
with,
like, with a roof.
And so you're liking this pod,
and,
it works with chromotherapy.
So you have the, like, light
and also, like, energy.
And,
you know, like, you can select the meditation
(25:56):
you want to do, and it's really like,
it's it's so all these experiences are actually
quite,
like, the duration is very short,
like or, like, up to, like, 15, 20
minutes,
and it's very effective.
You have also, like, the hyperbaric
chamber.
(26:17):
You have, like, one that I like also,
like, I found really relaxing.
I've I did that at,
in,
in New York in,
why can't I remember the name of this
place? It it will come back. But, anyway,
it's a compression boots.
You know? Like, you were very, like,
(26:39):
in I was on the
on a, like, a, like, a bed with
the compression book
and then some, headphones.
And,
and yeah. Like, that was really, really relaxing.
And it's, like, 15, 20 minutes.
Someone comes, you know, helps you put the
boots on. I've tried also, like,
(27:00):
with a Therabody. They do, like, the, like,
massage guns.
And they also have,
they have also the compression books.
And they have,
like, a lounger and, you like a like
an eye mask that's making, like,
massages
around your your eye area. And,
(27:20):
you have, like, also a headphone with special
music.
So really, like,
using the senses. Like, now there's a lot
of research about the impact of brainwaves,
you know, and, like, how
music and certain
frequencies
of sounds can,
touch, like,
(27:41):
like, the different wave brains on your brain
and help you to relax.
So there's a lot of things that you
can
use, like smell also. You know, smell is
really important. Like, when you stress,
smell is one of the first scents that's
that can help you calm down.
(28:01):
And so, like, there's, yeah, all these things
that you can use to have to create
an experience
that doesn't have to
cost you a lot to set up,
doesn't need to be, like, high maintenance or
high
staffing,
but you can provide this experience to your
guests at,
yeah, like, at the low price.
(28:23):
Yeah. Interesting.
You may have mentioned about the the the
fragrance in the sense, and I
I was at, at the studio post office
office where I spend a week, a day
a week, and there was a sample of
something called hinoki wood from Japan. Mhmm. And
it has a kind of a quite interesting
fragrance, and it's supposed to mean help you
to calm down or to relax. And what
(28:45):
they're doing in now,
there's some designs going into Japan of saunas.
And in fact, they're using in Japan for
even some of the temples or some,
relaxation or some cabins where they use this
hinoki wood. And so when when you're in
there, you feel that
you will start to feel at ease at
that. And it had a very sort of
calming effect, and I realized that in fact,
(29:07):
there are some,
fragrance companies are using this Hinoki scent as
as part wood scent as part of their
selection of fragrances that they are selling. So
for people just want to have
to come down after being stressful. So, yeah,
the smell has a very big impact on
on person's mental.
Mhmm. Yeah. Exactly. And I would say, like,
(29:29):
you don't need to go to
Japan to have to find some smells like
that. You know? Like, lavender
is known to help, like, calm down.
Yeah. So you so I think you you
also
like, locally, you also have so much
so many things available, like,
(29:50):
like, at the Four Seasons in Rabat, we're
growing a lot of rosemary.
I love the smell of rosemary and, like,
rosemary tea is my go to, you know,
when you start getting a bit cold, like,
when you feel like you might have a
a beginning of a cold in the winter.
Like, rosemary with
honey and hot water
My go to.
(30:12):
Yeah. So, you know, like, rosemary
is a really, like, a nice smell as
well.
So, yeah,
just using also what you have and then,
like, smell is also associated
with memory.
So then the next time for someone smells
the the smell that they
(30:32):
the smell that they smelled, you know, like
in your hotel,
they will remember it. Yeah.
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, there are some hotel
brands. In fact, they are famous in their
program,
a company I worked for.
They had always in a particular flowers in
the lobby,
which gave sort of a certain
scent, like, or, you know, orange flower scent
(30:53):
or something in the lobby. And that that's
a that's a signature scent that they have
in in every of their branded hotels. So
it's a it has has a very in
fact, also in a lot of the you
will see this in in fashion stores these
days also. Then you walk in to a
store, they will have a particular
scent that,
that you get associated with when you walk
into it. So Yeah. It's very powerful way
(31:14):
of,
creating,
like,
memories out of that. Yeah. Like a and
like a brand identity. Like, there's this French
brand that I like.
And when I order from them, because I
don't have a one of their store here,
they put their fragrance, their signature fragrance on
the on the clothes.
(31:34):
So when you open the parcel, like, you
you smell the brand. So it's, nice. Yeah.
It's really like, it's a small touch, but
it's really,
upgrade the experience.
Yeah.
Yeah. Very good. So, I think we covered
some interesting points today, and we talked about,
(31:55):
the design aspect where you're
saying that, that you need to have little
work to be done in advance before we
get the designer on board and probably need
some
good workshops or a discussion that everybody's aligned
with,
what this would be like. And then we
talked about,
certain things that you you'd like to see,
(32:15):
what we should do to revolutionize
any aspects of the wellness industry. So many
interesting points that has been discussed. So I
think this has been a very good discussion
again, Celine, with you. You always bring some
very interesting points, and I think the audience
will appreciate,
your
your feedback.
And,
one thing I'd like to add about,
(32:36):
you know, like, diversity
and,
I think that
it's it's also important for the the wellness
industry to be
inclusive
in, you know, like, in every sense of
the term, you know, like,
in this in, like,
(32:57):
finding ways to welcome people from with, like,
all
size and shapes of body in the gym.
And we are really bad at that because
for now, like, you know, working out or
moving
is associated with being fit.
But to be able to reach the stage
(33:18):
of being fit,
you there are a lot of steps before.
And so we're not really good at having,
like,
like, softer ways to build movement into people's
life when they come on property.
And,
yeah. And, like, sometimes, like, gyms are also
built in a way that are very,
(33:40):
off putting. Like, even me, you know, like,
sometimes I walk into a gym and I'm
like, okay. What
where do I start? What do I do
with this?
So, like, being more
and and that goes back to and we
talked about that last time about, you know,
like, creating,
spaces that make sense
(34:02):
and not just ticking boxes and say, oh,
yeah. These machines look cool. The prices are
fine. Let's just put a bunch of them
and, and
also, like,
making
sure that,
yeah, everybody will feel welcome
and not overwhelmed by the spaces.
It's also
(34:22):
welcoming people of all ages,
and,
I like also like, the customer
consumers of the futures
are like the kids of today. So I
like, you know, like, these,
like, mom and daughter pampering,
offers or, like, introducing
kids also, like, to,
(34:43):
to movement or workout, but the spaces that
we have today
are not equipped to welcome them. Yep.
And the same with older people now. Like,
they are offerings for,
like,
equipment.
So
for, like, older
elderly people.
And so, like, it's not that the offer
(35:05):
is not here.
It's just that we're not always,
well, we we have sometimes, like, limited spaces,
so it's hard to put everything we want
in there.
But, like, how can we create spaces that
are more welcoming for a wider
range of
people
and also making it easier and not off
(35:26):
putting,
for them to
to go in there.
And,
and it goes also, you know, with,
like, there's a brand that, like, it's called
Barbara Sturm,
and they have, like, different when you go
to their website,
they have different options depending on your skin
(35:46):
type
and your skin and your skin color
and depending on where you're living. So I
found that really cool that,
now, like, with, again, like, technology, they are
able to,
tailor
even more. Like, now you you don't you
it's not like okay. Do you have dry
(36:06):
skin or,
like, a oily skin or, like,
you can go, like, deeper than that to
select
what's gonna be best for you
and also, like,
products for men.
Like, men are also, like, a big a
big target, and the numbers in spas of
men's going to spas is growing.
(36:29):
And for everything, not just massages, but facials,
manicure and pedicure for men is also growing,
and younger people. Like, people now going to
to
spas
are getting also younger. So Yeah. That's nice.
But, again, you need to find,
(36:50):
things, like, to
attract them and not trying to be like
a one size fits all,
but at the same time,
depending what on what your
your your target, what are your values, and
what is your concept,
being as inclusive as possible
(37:11):
within this,
like, this bucket, let's say. Yeah. Very good.
My my final thought about all this is
that when you think about,
facilities, sauna seems to be a afterthought. It
is just put okay. We have a small
space available. Let's put the sauna in there.
And and then
it's, never thought about, how the,
(37:32):
the heat heating part of the,
the furnace that that creates the heat is
it it tends to be undermeasured so you
don't get the proper heat. And then the
ventilation obviously is is a huge issue. So,
you know, coming from Finland,
a Finnish sauna, so I think that's,
one of the fundamental things that you need
to get right. And they are now paying
(37:53):
attention more and more to in the design
aspect and also to make sure that the
dimensions and also the equipment in in the
sauna is is the right for,
for a proper,
sauna experience. Mhmm. You know? And in general,
you know, you have a sauna and a
steam room next to each other.
But
when you look at the
(38:14):
the properties,
they are the same. Like, it's heat therapy.
The difference is one is
dry and the other, like, he's
like, makes some steam.
But in terms of,
properties, they do roughly the same thing.
So, like,
is, like, having 2 hot experiences
(38:35):
the right fit if you don't have much
space, or can you do, like, a hot
experience and a cold experience so then you
really have the benefits
of both, like, combined?
So it's, like, little details, but that makes
the difference.
Sure.
Sure. Very good. Well, thank you, Celine. This
has been an excellent,
conversation again, and we will continue our discussion
(38:57):
about the world of wellness.
And to all of our listeners, would you
like to learn more about wellness and
how how it could help in your daily
life. So please send your questions to us
and write to I will put the
email address in the show notes and just
write in the subject line of wellness questions,
and we will deal with that with in
(39:17):
our next episode. So, again, Celine, thanks very
much for joining today's episode, and I'm looking
forward to continue our fantastic discussion about wellness
and, bring more and more information to our
audience.
Thank you, Sam Erik, for having me. And,
yeah. Until next time.
Thanks for joining us this week on The
(39:37):
Social Hotels Show.
Make sure to visit our website, the socialhotelshowblueberry.net
where you can subscribe to the show in
Apple Podcast,
Spotify,
Google Play or via RSS
so you never miss a show.
While you're at it, if you find value
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Or if you simply tell a friend about
(39:59):
the show, that would help us out too.
Be sure to tune in for our next
episode.
Well, I think one of the main issue
is that,
architect and designers
sometimes come too early in the process.
So they come and they've already designed something
without having,
like, a commercial concept,
like, given to them. So they're just designing
(00:20):
based of the space they have
and not on the space the hotel need
for just spa wellness offering.
So
that causes issue because that's that causes first
a lot of copy pasting. When you look
at spads
today, they're they all look the same. Hi,
everyone. Welcome back to the Social Hotelier podcast
(00:41):
with me, Samirik Ruthman,
where we explain the intersection of hospitality,
humanity, and technology. Today, we are diving deep
into the transformative world of wellness with our
second episode with my guest, Celine Vadam.
Celine is the founder of WeThink, a forward
thinking consultancy dedicated
to wellness, environment, and innovation.
(01:03):
In this episode, we will discuss the unique
challenges,
opportunities of collaborating with architects and designers on
wellness centric projects as Celine has a great
deal of experience being part of conceptualizing
these different,
projects.
And, also, we'll talk about the state of
the wellness and industry.
How to how to make it more impactful,
inclusive, or accessible,
(01:24):
Meaning that there's can be a sort of
a high gate for many people of whether
they will
be going to a retreat or or a
wellness as
they may not feel fully comfortable or not
sure what they're getting into. So it will
be interesting to share get Celine's input on
what are the responsibilities and opportunities now for
(01:44):
these, well the wellness industry in general and
maybe specifically some,
operators, what they could do better in order
to make fee feel
people more comfortable to joining their
programs.
So whether you're a hotelier, wellness enthusiast, or
someone curious about creating spaces that foster the
true well-being,
this is an episode you don't want to
(02:05):
miss. So welcome, Celine, and thanks for joining
for our second episode. Thank you, Samirik.
So let's, maybe just get started here.
You have worked with architects and designers and
and and collaborating with them in designing,
spas or wellness
(02:26):
places. So what unique challenges and opportunities
do you face when collaborating with architects and
designers
on to ensure that they align with the
vision you have?
Well, I think one of the main issue
is that,
architect and designers
sometimes come too early in the process.
(02:46):
So they come and they've already designed something
without having,
like, a commercial concept,
like, given to them. So they're just designing
based of the space they have
and not on the space the hotel need
for the spa wellness offering.
So
(03:07):
that causes
issue because that's that causes first a lot
of copy pasting. When you look at spats
today, they're they all look the same.
Like, of course, the
design is different. The
the colors are different. The materials are different,
but, basically, it's all the same, like, more
or less the same services and the same
(03:28):
facilities there.
So it's not really, like,
used as a added value as a and
a differentiation
point for the property as it could be
and as it should be, actually, to really
have an impactful
and authentic
and,
(03:49):
like,
I'm losing my word. And,
and, yeah, like, an financially viable offer. Because
if everybody is doing the same thing, like,
what what are you offering that's different than
others?
So it's it's really and and that's, and,
also, like, when,
when clients come with,
(04:11):
RFPs
to
to get, like, a wellness consultant, they don't
really see the wellness consultant
as
a creative person. They see the
the wellness consultant more
as a tick box or technical person.
And I think that's also wrong. Like, you
shouldn't
leave the
(04:31):
wellness concept to the designers. They are not
wellness experts. They are design experts.
So you wouldn't leave them to create your
menu at your restaurant
or to tell you which f and b
concepts you're gonna you're gonna have. So why
are you letting them
decide
(04:52):
the menu of your spa, like, for the
facilities you're having? So it's kind of the
same idea.
So I think that,
yeah, so it's not the architects and designers
sport. It's like, a sometime on the owners
are
want to have the design first,
and then, like,
there's a lot of back and forth that
(05:13):
could be avoided by, I think, first. And
I'm
talking about wellness, but I'm talking about hotels
in general. You know? Like,
doing your research, your feasibility
study,
and your hotel concept and wellness concept, if
you have a hotel with a wellness concept,
before.
(05:34):
And then, like, this can inform
the design and, like,
of course, you need to have an idea
of the,
like, the land that you're working with, the
area you're working with,
but you don't need to have all the
walls fixed
right away. I think you need first to
have your
concepts
(05:54):
and then, like, you can
and that would help actually designers
to
and and make a more straightforward and,
and efficient design process too.
Yeah. In ideal situation,
if you like to put sort of a
timeline
at of each step,
what would
(06:15):
what would you start the the starting point
of the feasibility, etcetera? I mean, where would
you come in as a
as a as a concept creator on on
this? So are you coming on as a
first step already?
Are there any other consultants that you should
that should be involved?
Is there a branding
expert that will be coming in? Or or
just your your thoughts of how you think
(06:37):
in the in the perfect world things should
work.
Well, if we're talking about
wellness concepts in general, and I am not
I I'm using the word wellness and not
the word spa
because a lot of you know, it's it's
a bit different. Like, the spa in general,
like, these days, it's just,
you know, like,
(06:59):
when the hotel is,
conceptualized,
it's the room first
and then the f and b, and then
there's some space laced with putting the spa.
And so, like and then, like, it's hotels
who say, oh, we want to be a
wellness hotel. It's like, yeah. But wellness is
kind of the last thing you're putting in
with the remaining square meters you have. So
(07:21):
I'm not sure this is really,
you know, the most important thing in your
concept.
So I I think that it should come
like,
and and it depends also who you're working
with. Like, of course, if you're just if
you're working with a cons a spa consultant
who's
only doing the spa,
they will come a bit later in the
(07:43):
process.
But,
like, I I I do, like, overall
consultancy. So I work not just on the
spa, but on the overall
project and the overall hotel,
and, like, the rooms and the FNB and
everything. So I like to come in as
early as possible
so then I can work together with the
(08:05):
designer
and, like, bring them, you know, like, how
many rooms do we need? How many f
and b spaces? Like, what size of spa
do we need?
How many,
like, facilities, infrastructures.
So then there are a bit
more information about what they need to,
like, include.
(08:25):
And then it's a discussion or okay. This
will fit. This will not fit
the rooms. If you want rooms that big,
then we need to have a bit less
or but at least they they have some
guidance. It's not just, you know, like, starting
from scratch.
And the guidance they have is not driven
just by,
(08:46):
you know,
the plot of land. It's driven by the
market,
by define
by the,
the concept itself of the hotel. And that's
and I think having
that, like, strong base before
helps also
first avoid having copy paste properties,
(09:09):
Avoid also
having properties without,
like,
character or without a proper identity
because then it becomes sometimes the identity of
the designer.
Like, so much as you walk in, you
know who designed them. You know who designed
the space.
And, also, like, it's it keeps the like,
(09:32):
it gives the
an identity also without necessarily putting a brand.
So then after, you can associate a brand.
But that means that because in in general,
in these initial stages, you don't always know
which brand you're gonna go with,
And then you don't also want to
(09:53):
design your property
based on a specific
brand because you don't know, like,
you know, like, maybe, like, after a while,
this brand is not
a good like, some sometimes what I found
is that owners
find the brand that wants them and not,
like, work to get the brands that they
(10:14):
want. Yeah. And so, like, in this
in this
relationship,
it's, like, they are compromising
what they want to to do or to
build
to attract
a brand, like
and,
instead of having, like, something
(10:35):
strong that then they can sell to to
brands and attract the brand that will be
the best brand for their project.
And so, like, I think that, like, having,
again, like, this strong concept upfront
helps attracting the right brand,
the right designer that will give the property,
(10:55):
like, a strong identity that will also resist
the test of time.
Because, otherwise, you will have something that's
yeah. You will have a product that's nice,
but that will probably
like this
identity that will make it, like a landmark
or like a, you know, like,
(11:16):
like a like a specific
location in its
destination or, like, a broader
area.
Yeah.
I
I talked to some time ago, with a
brand agency, and I was pretty sure whether
that would be the right fit to bring
into a
a new project, whether it's a hotel project
or resort project. But I learned something from
(11:38):
him, which I found quite interesting and refreshing
the way he spoke about it. He said
that, you know, I only I asked sort
of very,
three questions or we think when we think
about the, new project that, like,
like, who are you?
Then that would answer very basically what this
place is all about. And then is it
who is it for? And I think this
is gonna take maybe quite easy to answer
(12:00):
the
the
second question that who who we imagine this
services would be for. But the third one
is actually very different difficult is why does
it matter? So how does it differentiate
to anybody else? And I think we all
and that is the thing that we're maybe
not always spending enough time on to make
that differentiation.
(12:21):
And and that's where what you have talking
about, the
cookie cut,
cookie paste
solutions come very easily because they want to
kinda get started, finish quickly, and move on
to the next thing. Yeah. And I think
that to to your point, like, sometime the
in the India hospitality industry, we are scared
(12:41):
to,
you know, like, have a a focus or
to, like,
to have an identity
because we think that if we attract
as many
people or different people as possible,
it will ensure us to have, like,
like, revenues and occupancy
and,
but
(13:02):
it's it's like,
it's like with everything. You know? Like, sometimes
it's better to have maybe a little bit
less people or more, like, focused,
like, target of clients,
but coming, like, regularly and coming and having
maybe a higher ADR. It's not just a
question of
volume and having the largest audience as possible,
(13:24):
but you have the most
also, like, engaged audience as possible. People who
will come back, who will be loyal to
your to your property, who will bring their
friends, their family, their, etcetera.
It's not like being, like, a one size
fits all and being, like, a people pleaser.
(13:46):
Like, the hospitality
industry is very people pleasing.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We want everybody. Everybody come
and everybody enjoy. I mean Yeah. In reality,
doesn't work. But I some notice something that,
you know, there used to be a time
when we had a hotel comp management company
had 4 brands. 1 was for the budget
or economy,
and then you have a
(14:08):
up
upscale upper upscale and the luxury.
And now when you try to figure out
what these brands are all about, you see
if you look at the old it's like
their usual suspects, the large
conglomerate.
They have 46 brands. And they come up
with a new brand
quite often. And because they have cut such
a narrow niche of, oh, okay. We want
(14:28):
to attract
the dog owners, and we want to con
have this very cabin style of
experience.
Okay. We can fit the dog owner and
the cabin style
of and then let's make it a brand
out of it. And so then then they
look for people who have created similar brands
and say, okay. We'll off make an offer.
(14:49):
We'll buy your brand for this much, and
then they have the have the work done
already, and then they start to put into
their huge distribution
network and so on. But,
to the point that, I mean, what is
your thoughts on on,
what I call
branded or designed,
wellness places, which has go under the umbrella
(15:11):
of
fragrance
or,
or facial creams or or so on? What
are you what is your thoughts on that?
Because I see quite a bit of that
as a as
a easy solution trying to figure out that
we have a great spa or great wellness
product.
Yeah. Well, we touch base.
We we talked about that a bit more
(15:33):
in detail last time during the last conversation.
But,
like, as you say, like, it's sometimes a
quick fix,
and,
I see sometimes, like,
like, brands, like, that are not really the
right fit for a specific property because they
don't
the values don't align. The type of clients
(15:56):
don't align.
So, like, the the the goal for like,
to have, like, a a, like,
like, successful, like,
retail, like, cosmetics brands,
for spice to be able then to sell
the the retail as well. So to provide,
like, a good,
good quality
(16:17):
service and massage. And, and at the end
of the day, you know, I was speaking
with,
a lot of spa directors,
and they were telling me that
at the end, like,
in terms of
quality or, like, effectiveness
of cosmetic brands,
they're kind of all the same. You know?
Like, there's not one specific, you know, like,
(16:40):
one, like, magic cream that will make you
look like, I don't know, like,
10:10 or 20 years younger just because you
applied or they're all, like, more or less
they all work.
So it's not like there's, like,
some that are really, like,
the most performing, and you can really, really
(17:01):
see, like, it's, like, significant
results compared to the others.
It's more than a question of,
like, brand values,
ingredients used,
and, like, sourcing of the ingredients,
the type of treatments, like and and now
I even have, like, a, like, spas who
(17:22):
don't even use, like,
brands. You know? Like, they're using local products,
especially for body treatments.
For facial, it's a bit different. But for
body treatments, we're using, like, local,
locally sourced products. Like, you can do, like,
really cool
scrubbing with just, like, a honey
(17:44):
and and sugar or,
or, like, they yeah. They're they're sourcing
local
essential oils and,
like, oils that we're blending
or and and so, like, they're really bypassing
the
the the, like, the brands
to also offer more personalized experience. Because once
(18:05):
if you have, like, these products,
locally sourced,
First, you have, like, a more,
like, local experience because your products are from
the place.
And you can also be like, offer more
personalization
because then you can
add, like, the
the the fragrance, like, the the smell that
(18:27):
you like or, like, the texture that the
clients like or so it allows you, like,
more flexibility.
Yep. I would say that's really that a
a but but more more and more people
are looking for that kind of experience. If
you go to an area which has is
well known for certain thing, maybe the soil
condition or they have salt or and then
(18:49):
the herbs, which are from that area, whatnot,
I mean, and create that product around that.
I think that's a a,
that's what I call differentiation to a
get out rather than getting a one of
the famous brands to have their label on
it.
Just as a side note, you know, I
always get,
(19:10):
I start to smile when I go to
the department store and,
not with me. My wife, sometime go and
buy some of the facial creams, and they
look at me offering
antiaging. So I think, oh, let's thank you
very much. I'm glad you're thinking of me
now.
Yeah. And, you know, you'll always
have, like, your
the like, some brands that are really, like,
(19:31):
high selling.
Yeah. And you put them and you're sure
that you're gonna do, like, a lot of
retail with
them. And,
and, also, like, you and you will also
have,
clients who you know, I remember I was
in Iceland, and someone wanted to drink some
Japanese,
(19:52):
Japanese
whiskey in Iceland. And I said, they're they're
they have, like, some really cool Icelandic,
like,
alcohol.
So why don't
you why don't you want to try the
Icelandic alcohol? But so you always gonna have
like that or someone who wants to, I
don't know, like, eat sushi
in
(20:13):
in the mountain instead of having a raclette.
You know? Yeah. But,
but the the point is,
yeah, like, the the
choosing the brand depending on your market is
is very important,
because depending on where the people are from,
also their budget.
You know? Like, if you put a brand
(20:34):
that is too expensive,
or too cheap, you you're not gonna have
the the retail results that you want.
So I think that the
decision to work with certain cosmetic brands,
at the spa, like, just for the wellness
offering in general too, you know, like, what
(20:55):
types of,
like, lifestyle or, like, you know, in the
boutique, what are you having?
Depends really on,
on your market.
Sure. Sure.
K. Very good. Now
you have been around,
in the wellness industry for a while, and
you have seen,
what's going on. And, I'm kind of curious
(21:18):
to learn
your thoughts on if you could revolutionize
one aspect of the wellness industry to make
it more impactful,
inclusive, or accessible,
what would it be and and why why
why would it be?
I think that,
I'd like to work more like, I love
working with the luxury space,
but I think there's a big,
(21:41):
like, there are there's a big market for,
like, corporate
and for, like,
lower scale hotels. Like like, wellness and, like,
health is shouldn't be something that's,
like, reserved for, like, people who have money.
I think it should be, like, accessible to
everybody.
(22:02):
And I think that there's so much opportunity,
especially now with
with,
like, technology.
And just one thing of the, like, wellness
department
is that it's,
stuff heavy.
And but now, like, with the Wild Tech,
you
can have, like, some cool and very efficient
(22:25):
machines
that can provide some very interesting treatments. Like,
I've tried these,
I think I mentioned last time, this hotel
in Miami, the Carrion Hotel,
where we have, like, a WellTech,
like, a few circuits
with, like, machines.
And,
(22:45):
like, I was really impressed by some of
the the machines and how, like, effective they
were for,
like, mental health
and for, like, helping your skin regeneration.
And so I there there are things that
hotels can
can put in their properties
(23:05):
even if they are even if they are
not,
like, luxury properties that guests can use, like,
on demand.
And,
like,
the the the companies who sell this,
especially if it's, like, a new product on
the market, they are, in general, quite flexible
and quite good at,
(23:26):
building, like, a real partnership with the hotels
and having, like, a commercial
agreement that's really, like, beneficial
for
for both.
So you don't use like, some, like, you
don't have to buy the machine. You can
lease it, or you can have, like,
a revenue share of the of the profits.
So it's like low maintenance,
(23:48):
low staffing,
and it can provide a wellness experience
to your guests.
And
you don't have to charge, like, a lot
of money for these experiences.
Well, I think that technology is really,
yeah,
technologies is is can really help, like,
(24:09):
make the, like, wellness more mainstream.
Could you just, explain a little bit more
about
your your example,
let's say, from a Miami.
What do you mean about the machines? What
are they all about since I haven't seen
them? So I would be curious to understand.
Yeah. So, like,
so one of those so you do you
(24:30):
have, like, different circuits?
I don't remember each, like, circuit's name. I
think there was one for more, like, relaxation,
one more
energizing,
and another one.
And
and and so, like, the so you were
taken by, like, the the spa,
like, a spa attendant
(24:52):
to, like, each,
machine. So they were dropping you and then,
like, picking you up after to go to
the next one. And so, like, one machine,
for example, like, one was
a like,
you like, it's how do I explain that?
It's like like you were laying down
(25:13):
and you have one machine like, I had
one machine on my hand that was working,
you know, like acupuncture
on acupuncture
points in my hand,
and then the other one was doing, like,
like, energy waves,
so very relaxing.
One that I really loved, it's called the
soma dome, and it's like a
(25:35):
like a like a armchair
with,
like, with a roof.
And so you're liking this pod,
and,
it works with chromotherapy.
So you have the, like, light
and also, like, energy.
And,
you know, like, you can select the meditation
(25:56):
you want to do, and it's really like,
it's it's so all these experiences are actually
quite,
like, the duration is very short,
like or, like, up to, like, 15, 20
minutes,
and it's very effective.
You have also, like, the hyperbaric
chamber.
(26:17):
You have, like, one that I like also,
like, I found really relaxing.
I've I did that at,
in,
in New York in,
why can't I remember the name of this
place? It it will come back. But, anyway,
it's a compression boots.
You know? Like, you were very, like,
(26:39):
in I was on the
on a, like, a, like, a bed with
the compression book
and then some, headphones.
And,
and yeah. Like, that was really, really relaxing.
And it's, like, 15, 20 minutes.
Someone comes, you know, helps you put the
boots on. I've tried also, like,
(27:00):
with a Therabody. They do, like, the, like,
massage guns.
And they also have,
they have also the compression books.
And they have,
like, a lounger and, you like a like
an eye mask that's making, like,
massages
around your your eye area. And,
(27:20):
you have, like, also a headphone with special
music.
So really, like,
using the senses. Like, now there's a lot
of research about the impact of brainwaves,
you know, and, like, how
music and certain
frequencies
of sounds can,
touch, like,
(27:41):
like, the different wave brains on your brain
and help you to relax.
So there's a lot of things that you
can
use, like smell also. You know, smell is
really important. Like, when you stress,
smell is one of the first scents that's
that can help you calm down.
(28:01):
And so, like, there's, yeah, all these things
that you can use to have to create
an experience
that doesn't have to
cost you a lot to set up,
doesn't need to be, like, high maintenance or
high
staffing,
but you can provide this experience to your
guests at,
yeah, like, at the low price.
(28:23):
Yeah. Interesting.
You may have mentioned about the the the
fragrance in the sense, and I
I was at, at the studio post office
office where I spend a week, a day
a week, and there was a sample of
something called hinoki wood from Japan. Mhmm. And
it has a kind of a quite interesting
fragrance, and it's supposed to mean help you
to calm down or to relax. And what
(28:45):
they're doing in now,
there's some designs going into Japan of saunas.
And in fact, they're using in Japan for
even some of the temples or some,
relaxation or some cabins where they use this
hinoki wood. And so when when you're in
there, you feel that
you will start to feel at ease at
that. And it had a very sort of
calming effect, and I realized that in fact,
(29:07):
there are some,
fragrance companies are using this Hinoki scent as
as part wood scent as part of their
selection of fragrances that they are selling. So
for people just want to have
to come down after being stressful. So, yeah,
the smell has a very big impact on
on person's mental.
Mhmm. Yeah. Exactly. And I would say, like,
(29:29):
you don't need to go to
Japan to have to find some smells like
that. You know? Like, lavender
is known to help, like, calm down.
Yeah. So you so I think you you
also
like, locally, you also have so much
so many things available, like,
(29:50):
like, at the Four Seasons in Rabat, we're
growing a lot of rosemary.
I love the smell of rosemary and, like,
rosemary tea is my go to, you know,
when you start getting a bit cold, like,
when you feel like you might have a
a beginning of a cold in the winter.
Like, rosemary with
honey and hot water
My go to.
(30:12):
Yeah. So, you know, like, rosemary
is a really, like, a nice smell as
well.
So, yeah,
just using also what you have and then,
like, smell is also associated
with memory.
So then the next time for someone smells
the the smell that they
(30:32):
the smell that they smelled, you know, like
in your hotel,
they will remember it. Yeah.
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, there are some hotel
brands. In fact, they are famous in their
program,
a company I worked for.
They had always in a particular flowers in
the lobby,
which gave sort of a certain
scent, like, or, you know, orange flower scent
(30:53):
or something in the lobby. And that that's
a that's a signature scent that they have
in in every of their branded hotels. So
it's a it has has a very in
fact, also in a lot of the you
will see this in in fashion stores these
days also. Then you walk in to a
store, they will have a particular
scent that,
that you get associated with when you walk
into it. So Yeah. It's very powerful way
(31:14):
of,
creating,
like,
memories out of that. Yeah. Like a and
like a brand identity. Like, there's this French
brand that I like.
And when I order from them, because I
don't have a one of their store here,
they put their fragrance, their signature fragrance on
the on the clothes.
(31:34):
So when you open the parcel, like, you
you smell the brand. So it's, nice. Yeah.
It's really like, it's a small touch, but
it's really,
upgrade the experience.
Yeah.
Yeah. Very good. So, I think we covered
some interesting points today, and we talked about,
(31:55):
the design aspect where you're
saying that, that you need to have little
work to be done in advance before we
get the designer on board and probably need
some
good workshops or a discussion that everybody's aligned
with,
what this would be like. And then we
talked about,
certain things that you you'd like to see,
(32:15):
what we should do to revolutionize
any aspects of the wellness industry. So many
interesting points that has been discussed. So I
think this has been a very good discussion
again, Celine, with you. You always bring some
very interesting points, and I think the audience
will appreciate,
your
your feedback.
And,
one thing I'd like to add about,
(32:36):
you know, like, diversity
and,
I think that
it's it's also important for the the wellness
industry to be
inclusive
in, you know, like, in every sense of
the term, you know, like,
in this in, like,
(32:57):
finding ways to welcome people from with, like,
all
size and shapes of body in the gym.
And we are really bad at that because
for now, like, you know, working out or
moving
is associated with being fit.
But to be able to reach the stage
(33:18):
of being fit,
you there are a lot of steps before.
And so we're not really good at having,
like,
like, softer ways to build movement into people's
life when they come on property.
And,
yeah. And, like, sometimes, like, gyms are also
built in a way that are very,
(33:40):
off putting. Like, even me, you know, like,
sometimes I walk into a gym and I'm
like, okay. What
where do I start? What do I do
with this?
So, like, being more
and and that goes back to and we
talked about that last time about, you know,
like, creating,
spaces that make sense
(34:02):
and not just ticking boxes and say, oh,
yeah. These machines look cool. The prices are
fine. Let's just put a bunch of them
and, and
also, like,
making
sure that,
yeah, everybody will feel welcome
and not overwhelmed by the spaces.
It's also
(34:22):
welcoming people of all ages,
and,
I like also like, the customer
consumers of the futures
are like the kids of today. So I
like, you know, like, these,
like, mom and daughter pampering,
offers or, like, introducing
kids also, like, to,
(34:43):
to movement or workout, but the spaces that
we have today
are not equipped to welcome them. Yep.
And the same with older people now. Like,
they are offerings for,
like,
equipment.
So
for, like, older
elderly people.
And so, like, it's not that the offer
(35:05):
is not here.
It's just that we're not always,
well, we we have sometimes, like, limited spaces,
so it's hard to put everything we want
in there.
But, like, how can we create spaces that
are more welcoming for a wider
range of
people
and also making it easier and not off
(35:26):
putting,
for them to
to go in there.
And,
and it goes also, you know, with,
like, there's a brand that, like, it's called
Barbara Sturm,
and they have, like, different when you go
to their website,
they have different options depending on your skin
(35:46):
type
and your skin and your skin color
and depending on where you're living. So I
found that really cool that,
now, like, with, again, like, technology, they are
able to,
tailor
even more. Like, now you you don't you
it's not like okay. Do you have dry
(36:06):
skin or,
like, a oily skin or, like,
you can go, like, deeper than that to
select
what's gonna be best for you
and also, like,
products for men.
Like, men are also, like, a big a
big target, and the numbers in spas of
men's going to spas is growing.
(36:29):
And for everything, not just massages, but facials,
manicure and pedicure for men is also growing,
and younger people. Like, people now going to
to
spas
are getting also younger. So Yeah. That's nice.
But, again, you need to find,
(36:50):
things, like, to
attract them and not trying to be like
a one size fits all,
but at the same time,
depending what on what your
your your target, what are your values, and
what is your concept,
being as inclusive as possible
(37:11):
within this,
like, this bucket, let's say. Yeah. Very good.
My my final thought about all this is
that when you think about,
facilities, sauna seems to be a afterthought. It
is just put okay. We have a small
space available. Let's put the sauna in there.
And and then
it's, never thought about, how the,
(37:32):
the heat heating part of the,
the furnace that that creates the heat is
it it tends to be undermeasured so you
don't get the proper heat. And then the
ventilation obviously is is a huge issue. So,
you know, coming from Finland,
a Finnish sauna, so I think that's,
one of the fundamental things that you need
to get right. And they are now paying
(37:53):
attention more and more to in the design
aspect and also to make sure that the
dimensions and also the equipment in in the
sauna is is the right for,
for a proper,
sauna experience. Mhmm. You know? And in general,
you know, you have a sauna and a
steam room next to each other.
But
when you look at the
(38:14):
the properties,
they are the same. Like, it's heat therapy.
The difference is one is
dry and the other, like, he's
like, makes some steam.
But in terms of,
properties, they do roughly the same thing.
So, like,
is, like, having 2 hot experiences
(38:35):
the right fit if you don't have much
space, or can you do, like, a hot
experience and a cold experience so then you
really have the benefits
of both, like, combined?
So it's, like, little details, but that makes
the difference.
Sure.
Sure. Very good. Well, thank you, Celine. This
has been an excellent,
conversation again, and we will continue our discussion
(38:57):
about the world of wellness.
And to all of our listeners, would you
like to learn more about wellness and
how how it could help in your daily
life. So please send your questions to us
and write to I will put the
email address in the show notes and just
write in the subject line of wellness questions,
and we will deal with that with in
(39:17):
our next episode. So, again, Celine, thanks very
much for joining today's episode, and I'm looking
forward to continue our fantastic discussion about wellness
and, bring more and more information to our
audience.
Thank you, Sam Erik, for having me. And,
yeah. Until next time.
Thanks for joining us this week on The
(39:37):
Social Hotels Show.
Make sure to visit our website, the socialhotelshowblueberry.net
where you can subscribe to the show in
Apple Podcast,
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Google Play or via RSS
so you never miss a show.
While you're at it, if you find value
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Or if you simply tell a friend about
(39:59):
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