December 20, 2024 • 40 mins
Top Sustainability Expert Shares Secrets to Redefining Success
In this episode of the Social Hotelier Show, host Sam-Erik Ruttmann engages with Vanessa Thompson, a leader in sustainable finance and innovation. They discuss Vanessa's journey from Silicon Valley to her current role at the Sustainability Experts, emphasizing the importance of sustainability as a catalyst for innovation and growth.
The conversation explores the role of nature in hospitality, the balance between community needs and global development, and companies' responsibilities in reversing environmental damage.
Vanessa shares insights on sustainable luxury, the impact of regulation, and the need for consumers to support innovative businesses.
The episode concludes with a look at emerging trends in hospitality and the importance of prioritizing sustainability in business practices.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
What is it about these sustainable companies, these
sustainable ventures, the sustainability
as a mindset
that's actually helping the companies innovate more?
And so that's kind of what I wanted
to ask myself, and a few years ago,
a book publisher reached out to me and
asked me to write a book on innovation,
and that really helped me dive into that
topic even deeper. I had started that work
(00:21):
at UC Berkeley doing some research with with
a Nobel, Peace Prize winning author,
and then kind of continued that research into
my own book. And that book became 60
case studies.
Welcome to another episode of The Social Hotelier
Show with me, Sam Erik Ruthman.
With the eye of deep in the world
of visionary leaders, reshaping industries with passion, purpose,
(00:44):
and perseverance,
Today, I have the pleasure of hosting Vanessa
Thompson, a pioneer in sustainable finance and innovation
who has spent over a decade driving transformational
change within global corporations and trailblazing pathways
toward impactful sustainable futures.
Vanessa's journey spans roles at the UN Foundation,
(01:05):
The Nature Conservancy,
and the World Bank. Along with leadership at
Silicon Valley's Cutting Adventures,
now as a managing director at the Sustainability
Experts, she spearheads strategies
that empowers Fortune 500 companies to meet and
exceed ambitious sustainability targets.
With her groundbreaking book on sustainable leadership
(01:26):
set to release next year,
I can't wait to see that one, well,
Vanessa Vanessa has already shared her insights on
how the business can not only embrace sustainability
but use it as a catalyst for innovation
and growth.
In today's conversation, we'll explore
the intersections of leadership,
(01:47):
sustainability,
and the bold vision that fuels Vanessa's work.
This episode is just about not just not
about ideas, it's taking about action to create
a legacy of responsible, conscious growth.
So whether you're a business leader, an entrepreneur,
or simply someone who cares about the future,
get ready for inspiring conversation that might just
(02:07):
change the way you think about sustainable
success. So Vanessa, welcome and thank you very
much for joining me today. Thank you so
much for having me.
Well, let's get started. I think for our
audience to get some,
background and tell can you please tell me
about your inspiration
to get into this field and you must
share
the the story about,
(02:27):
your time at the Berkeley and the interesting
course you took. So,
I'm very curious to hear about that part.
So please share us your
inspiration how you got started.
Yeah. Absolutely. So,
I'm originally from Silicon Valley or the San
Francisco Bay Area.
And it's a very unique culture. I would
say that it's it's a really great place,
(02:49):
to be from and there's countless startups there.
Of course, you know, I went to UC
Berkeley which was a huge part of the
Silicon Valley kind of,
economy that that rose out of it.
And I think what's interesting about it is
that we really have this kind of mindset
of innovation
and sustainability kind of at the heart. And
nowadays there's, you know, Silicon Valleys all over
(03:10):
the world. People often say, you know, this
is the Silicon Valley of this particular region.
But at the time when I was growing
up, it it was really the San Francisco
Bay Area being at the heart of that.
And of course, yes, I went to UC
Berkeley which was a wonderful program.
I worked,
specifically in research that was economics related, but
the econometrics was all around remodeling renewable energy
(03:31):
and things like that, which is a very
unique degree program that we were able to
do there, which was wonderful.
And, you know, after that I ended up
working at countless clean tech startups.
You know, you mentioned I worked at the
UN Foundation, a lot of, you know, bigger
organizations as well, even venture capital groups.
And seeing all of these startups and growing
up in that culture, I I was constantly
(03:52):
asking myself the question, why is it that
sustainable companies
are able to develop IP faster,
go to market quicker,
and better at retaining talent?
What is it about these sustainable companies, these
sustainable ventures, the sustainability as a mindset
that's actually helping the companies innovate more.
And so that's kind of what I wanted
to ask myself. And a few years ago,
(04:15):
a book publisher reached out to me
and asked me to write a book on
innovation.
And that really helped me dive into that
topic even deeper. I had started that work
at UC Berkeley doing some research with with
a Nobel,
Peace Prize winning author,
and then it kind of continued that research
into my own book.
And that book became 60 case studies of
successful businesses that have become more innovative
(04:36):
using the principles of sustainability.
And these are principles that any business can
use in any particular industry that can help
them be more innovative and really accelerate innovation
in their business.
And so that's kind of what ended up
starting me speaking internationally on the topics of
innovation, giving keynotes on that.
And you know, as I was working on
these workshops with different companies,
(04:59):
I was really helping them, you know, come
up with new product ideas, helping them innovate
in their organizations.
And the sustainability experts which came out of
it was a consulting practice. They kind of
seemed like the next step,
that, you know, companies really needed that support.
I think particularly in hospitality, you know, it's
really an experience economy.
And so constantly evolving that experience
(05:20):
around the customer is so vital and so
important. And so innovation around that is so,
incredibly important as well. So, yeah, the sustainability
experts kind of came out of needing to
help companies with that that innovation practice.
Well, that's a great name. I mean, just
understanding you you work for like,
UN Foundation, and you are with the, startups.
(05:41):
And that's always what I've heard is like
a organized or unorganized chaos. And maybe when
you were the startup world, how did you
deal with that and to,
to keep things in track and looking at
the things from your perspective that are they
are they actually focused on those sustainable
actuals or something that you were guiding them
on?
(06:02):
Yeah, absolutely. So particularly working on a startup,
one of the most important things is having
a very clear vision because at a certain
point, you know, the minimum viable product is
not even there at some points.
And so what it it all is surrounding
around is these brilliant group of people who
have to have a very clear mission and
have that mission be the same across all
of those individuals.
(06:22):
And sustainability ends up being a great way
to organize people around it
because you actually give them meaning beyond just
a paycheck, beyond just thinking that this company
might become more successful. You give them meaning
and you give them a kind of, I
like to say, moon mission,
where you're actually driving people to say, we
are going to change the industry, we're going
to disrupt the industry and you're going to
(06:43):
be a part of it, your family's going
to be a part of it. And so
when you have that as a mission and
when you have a really authentic sustainability mission,
it really helps, you know, draw everyone together.
So I've been an advisor to to startups.
I've also worked in startups helping them raise
capital. So a number of different roles within
that, and all of them were different but
(07:03):
creating that vision is something that's true across
all these experiences.
In a world of increasing,
focus on quick profits,
is
is is it true sustainability
possible or is it just a marketing strategy?
Sustainability
is really the key to long term success.
(07:23):
And,
I like to use this one example of
a business called Interface. It was voted one
of the most sustainable companies in the US
and it actually went from being not a
sustainable organization at all and making a huge
transition to become more innovative, investing in incredible
patents, and becoming the leading sustainability firm in
the United States, which is really interesting. And
(07:44):
they did this all in the 19 nineties,
when you didn't have the benefits that you
have today of sustainability
press.
And a lot of people talk about, okay,
yeah, sustainability is great for your marketing team,
it's great for your PR, it's great for
all those things. They didn't have any of
those benefits
because at the time it was actually unpopular,
particularly in their industry which was manufacturing,
(08:04):
to have sustainability
at the forefront.
And so they actually kind of hated some
of their sustainability
and actually just talked about the patents, but
sustainability was fundamentally a part of their philosophy.
And so, I think that they're a really
interesting case study because the patents that they
invested in helped them survive a few recessions
when their competitors didn't.
And so it's it's really proof that sustainability
(08:26):
is really about thinking innovatively
and that, you know, of course there's the
cherry on top with marketing or PR, but
there's also the reverse of greenwashing, which happens
quite a bit too. Because sustainability inherently makes
good business sense. There are some companies that
actually will hide their sustainability investments and sustainability
practices because it makes business sense, but it
(08:47):
doesn't make good PR sense. So it depends
on the industry. For example,
there's a lot of luxury brands including Prada
that actually have recycled plastic in a lot
of their products.
But because that's not good for the PR
of the company because it's a luxury brand,
they actually hide that. So you have to
read through their full sustainability report to find
that out. They don't share that in marketing,
they don't share that in PR.
(09:08):
So it doesn't really make sense for their
marketing strategy. So I would say, you know,
you have to be thinking very innovatively about
sustainability. There needs to be a clear ROI
And sometimes that aligns with marketing goals and
sometimes it doesn't.
But you need to be thinking about it
as part of your business model.
Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned
luxury brands like Prada, but I'm seeing now
(09:29):
on,
on
advertising on social media of
similar companies like Italian companies, for instance, Loro
Piana, which is very famous for their
wool and cashmere, and they are recycling
some of their their materials to create a
new product. And they are quite proud of,
being open about it and I found that
(09:50):
quite interesting and refreshing because I know it
now things are actually coming out. It's actually
quite acceptable
Yeah. That it can be recycled but it
has to be done at the at the
quality. It doesn't come as a as a
lower quality product at the end. So I
think that's it's always a fine
fine line.
But also, I mean, you mentioned about
(10:11):
hospitality
and I'm afraid to say that our industry
has been
really notoriously about that. We are very proud
of not using plastic straws anymore. I mean,
and that's where where our mission is that
we are kind of in a sad state.
And there's a lot of work to be
done,
with this.
Have you kind of kept an eye a
little bit on about
hospitality, what they are doing, and are there
(10:33):
certain things that you think that,
would be very helpful from your point of
view that they should pay more attention to?
Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that, you know,
something that's somewhat overlooked to a large regard
is that when we're thinking about building experiences
for customers,
nature is actually at the heart of that.
When you think of experiences that are positive
(10:55):
for individuals, nature is somehow a part of
that experience. When you think about just the
interior design, when you walk into a hotel,
beautiful hotels and aesthetic places
have natural elements as a part of that
aesthetic. They're gonna have beautiful wood, they're going
to have some kinds of plants on the
inside, you're gonna have a water element. All
of those things are vital to have a
(11:17):
great aesthetic. So even just thinking from an
aesthetic point of view, nature's a part of
fundamentally good experience.
And there's tons of research around this, but
it's super interesting to actually dive into.
Because just when we think about a 10
minute walk in nature, of course that lowers
your blood blood pressure, it makes you relax,
it reduces feelings of anxiety, all the things
(11:37):
that you wanna do when you're on vacation,
when you're at a beautiful hotel.
But what's also interesting is that it also
reduces
chances of cancer. It reduces all sorts of
symptoms of disease. So nature's fundamentally a part
of us and it's fundamentally a part of
positive experiences.
And so when we're thinking of
beyond just removing harm, but actually investing in
(11:59):
a quality experience
where you actually can have a higher margin
and more value for your customer,
you fundamentally need to be thinking about how
am I going to invest in nature
strategically
to have a great experience?
And nature is fundamentally a part of that
and I have a few examples that we
can we can get into.
But that's kind of when we're thinking about
a concept of how do we want to
(12:20):
invest in our business to have greater value,
nature's at the heart of that. So we
need to be thinking about how do we
bring in more elements of nature to enhance
our overall experience.
You're truly almost talking like a fin here
because that's how we how we are thinking
about those things and because the nature is
something very important to us and,
and, this is really at the essence is
(12:42):
also I I really have,
a lot of
sympathy in terms of how the way you're
speaking about this part because this is something
that
I'm working on on regular basis, on daily
basis when we are designing hotels that and
that we are, designing human sustainable experiences, we
call it. Maybe it sounds like a cliche,
but it really means that
(13:04):
we never cut a single piece of wood
in the forest. We actually
build and design around what actually lives already
there because we know that
the the luxury is outside the window from
the room. So that's a very interesting point
that you mentioned. But one part also about
the
in hospitality, which is quite important and I
(13:25):
have
a comes from the time when,
when I was thinking of what is the
the definition of hospitality.
Originally, I thought, you know, when I started
my career in during the analog area, which
is a while ago, it was like customer
is king. That's how we were taught about
these things. But now
(13:46):
definition of hospitality is what I talk about
is is community.
So this is something that I think feel
very important and I think I want to
just
maybe question it. How do you balance the
needs and traditions of local communities
with the goals of global development projects? Any
thoughts we have on on this aspect?
Yes. Absolutely. And actually, one great case study
(14:08):
from our book comes to mind with this.
So I'll tell you kind of a short
story and then a principle that might apply
to the audience, which is there's this company
called Red Sea Global and they're a hotel
development company. And they're mainly around the Red
Sea.
And they come into areas and of course
what happens with a lot of hotel development
is that the local community is not valued,
(14:28):
they're not heard, sometimes they're occasionally moved out
of a certain area. So there's a lot
of problems that that can arise from that.
And Red Sea Global wanted to change that.
And so they came in with the mindset
that we're gonna listen to the local community
and we're really going to listen.
And this is always the hard part, they
did listen. And the locals asked for 2
(14:51):
things that seemed at first to be completely
unrelated from their business model, but ended up
being the key differentiators
that made them succeed in the market.
But at first, it seemed strange.
The first one was that they wanted a
banana farm.
And the second was that they wanted sailboats,
their traditional authentic sailboats of their culture.
(15:12):
Both things most business people would say, That's
great, but that's not really what I do.
And Red Sea Global was going to be
innovative about this. They said, Okay, how are
we going to make this work and make
this make sense for our business model? So
they invested in the banana farms. They made
huge investments into agriculture around the area and
created a very unique farm to table experience
(15:32):
that differentiated them in the market and got
very high ratings for all of their restaurants.
In fact, many of their guests actually went
specifically to the hotel for those experiences.
They also invested in sailboats, which became a
very unique cultural experience
that people could enjoy when going to their
hotels that no other hotel had these unique
(15:53):
sailing experiences. So specifically,
for people who were interested in sailing, this
was a experience you could have nowhere else
in the world.
And so in terms of embracing the local
culture, actually became their key differentiator in the
market. And I think this is particularly
true for hospitality.
Sometimes it doesn't always make sense at first,
and you do have to make that initial
(16:14):
investment
into really understanding the local culture, understanding how
that connects with the business model.
However, if you take that time to really
invest in the local culture and bring that
local culture into your experience,
it wildly differentiates you in the market. And
this is something that the most successful
hotels actually do, is they bring in the
(16:34):
local culture to some degree. And so when
you're thinking about differentiating yourself in the market,
that's something you should be thinking about. You
should be thinking about bringing in that that
unique cultural element because hotels are not buildings
that stand alone.
Right? They're a whole experience. They're a whole
community around it. This is what you mentioned
with community. It's really important that we think
(16:54):
about collaborating
with our entire community because that experience is
really what you're selling and it involves that
entire environment around you. So you have to
be thinking about bringing that in in a
way that feels meaningful, it feels authentic, and
helps customers keep coming back.
Very good. And in fact,
most of the staff
(17:15):
working in the hotel
are they are from that community in fact.
So it actually is it proves a point
and also
if it's done well then
certain hotels now are having a policy that
they only buy
their products from local community and no more
than, let's say, 100 miles away. So if
you're in a in a area where,
(17:38):
that,
it's 100 miles away and only the fruits
and vegetables and root vegetables are growing there.
That's available
only in the hotel's menu. So if somebody
was asking for a nice
glass of fresh squeezed
Valencia orange from Spain, they will be
they will be a little bit disappointed. But
maybe when you say that, well, we have
(17:58):
some actually
fresh
apple juice from our farm here and that
actually is a local product
and that is something that we will see
more and more hotels taking on board that
we are not actually there to please the
customer, but also we are looking at looking
at the community and also to serve those,
community suppliers.
And and in a way, we are giving
(18:19):
an authentic experience.
When you say that this apple is from
the the
the the apple farm here nearby and it
tastes very good, that says something more than
than getting
a orange juice because it doesn't actually relate
to the location.
You're selling a memory. Exactly. Exactly.
Wow. You you really sound like a hotelier.
(18:40):
I like that.
What what responsibilities
should companies hold in reversing environmental environmental
damage and and how accountable should they be
to communities
directly affected because it's always an ongoing discussion.
Yeah. Absolutely. And this is where, you know,
there's been this huge trend in the market
(19:02):
towards regenerative
hospitality.
And what that really means is saying, how
can we move away from simply preventing harm
to actually investing
in a way that makes sense for the
business model? And just to kind of address
the harm piece first, it's really important to
be thinking about, okay, we do need to
reduce harm, that's a fundamental part of it
(19:22):
because that it does affect the bottom line.
And there's companies like Seabin that are great
example of this. So Seabin actually creates,
trash cans that exist in the sea for
litter and debris for specifically coastal hospitality when
we're thinking of that. Debris that come from
the sea so that they don't wash up
on shore because that does end up affecting
(19:43):
the hotel experience. And if you have huge
mounds of plastic even if you didn't produce
it, if it's coming from the sea and
washing up on your beaches, that does end
up affecting your hotel, it does end up
affecting the experience.
So Seabin has been, you know, making a
great business model out of this in terms
of cleaning up the sea around those harbors
and bays, and they just went IPO recently.
(20:04):
So there's a lot of, organizations and a
lot of companies that you can partner with
to reduce that harm so that you can
make sure that you're giving the best experience
to your customer.
Then beyond that, when we're thinking about, okay,
not just reducing harm, but really investing in
nature itself,
that becomes a really interesting and wonderful part
of it. So when we think about something
(20:25):
just as simple as planting trees, let's think
about planting trees around your hotel,
It actually increases your property value by up
to 15%
just by planting trees. That's an incredible ROI
when you think of a few cents
for a tree seed
and you think of the 15%
increase in valuation of your property, that's just
talking about the real estate aspect of your
(20:45):
property.
That's incredible.
And that also does translate to customer loyalty
and retention,
and also increasing the value that you can
also charge your customers as well too. So
thinking about investing in nature's incredible piece of
hospitality,
one great hotel that, you know, many people
might know is called 6 Senses.
It's in the seashells and it's a luxury
(21:06):
experience.
But you'll see there's, you know, all these
nature elements that are coming into the hotel
room. You have huge boulders
and beautiful elements of nature that are actually
coming into the hotel
and surrounding the guests. And that is one
of the reasons why they're able to charge
so much, which I think is an interesting
element of it. When you have nature quite
literally coming into the hotel room
(21:27):
by having beautiful walls that are part of
the natural space itself,
people are willing to go out of their
way
to a hotel that offers that. And so
when you're thinking about, okay, how do I
want to invest in nature? Do I want
to invest in surrounding my building? Even with
something as simple as trees. If you're a
hotel that's in a city for example, you
can do that. You can surround your building
(21:48):
with trees, you can have small, you know,
elements of plants on the balcony. All of
those things actually increase your value significantly and
there's a huge ROI just in simple measures
like that. But when you're wanting to think
about how can I innovate beyond that? Regenerative
hospitality
is all about thinking about, okay, how can
nature be at the heart of this experience?
(22:08):
Very good. Yes. You're you're so right in
that.
Is the sustainable luxury market hypocritical
given the luxury sector environmental impact or can
luxury generally drive meaningful change?
Yeah. So sustainable luxury actually normally allows for
greater investment
and also greater ROI.
(22:29):
So when we think about coming back to,
you know, increasing value of trees,
or we think about trees also can actually
prevent storms,
and it's a pretty significant impact that it
has. When you invest in a small area
of land around your hotel, for example,
than when you're planting trees, you can actually
reduce
(22:49):
the impact of a storm by over half.
And it's really, really incredible to see that
you could protect your facility, you can protect
the experience by surrounding yourself in nature.
And so even, you know, I just wanna
kind of finish that thought, you know, trees
can even make people more peaceful.
It's even shown to reduce violent crime.
In neighborhoods that have more trees, it actually
(23:11):
reduces violent crime. So it affects our psychology
so much
that we're less likely to commit a violent
crime by simply seeing a tree. That's a
pretty profound
impact that it has. And so when we
think about sustainable luxury, what we're able to
do with that is we're actually able to
invest more
into the source of value that's enabling us
to charge more
(23:32):
and then will enable us to see a
higher ROI.
So we can see this with capital infrastructure
investments like solar or re reusables as well
too. We can have that higher upfront cost
that ends up actually reducing costs over time.
But this is also good not just for
sustainable luxury, this is also good for affordable
accommodations as well. What you see with renewable
(23:53):
energy is that it's actually the cheapest form
of electricity that there is.
And when we think about reusable long term,
that actually does end up cutting down on
long term costs when we think about how
can we have more reusable as a part
of our experience.
And Mhmm. It ends up actually delivering a
lot more value too, because when you have
things in glass and metal and wood and
(24:13):
these natural elements, people want to come back
and they actually have a more enjoyable experience.
So
there's there's a lot of information there but,
I think that sustainable luxury offers you to
invest more into what's giving the customers value.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Are regulatory frameworks around the world enough to
(24:33):
support
innovation
we need in sustainability
or they or they hinder more than help?
No. I wouldn't say that regulation is enough,
and, regulation also isn't normally innovative enough to
come up with the solutions that you need
to be thinking about. So hotels need to
be thinking about sustainability in their spaces. It's,
(24:53):
you know, a huge part of the business.
And they're also heavily affected by pollution. So
this is a fundamental part of the experience.
There's really no way around it.
And business people and innovators, they really have
to think differently.
And they have to be thinking in a
way that's more innovative. You know, I like
to say an innovator is someone where others
see a problem, they see a product.
(25:15):
And so you have to be thinking about
where is the opportunity here?
The Nature Conservancy is great in assisting businesses
with thinking about how can I invest in
nature and actually get a profit out of
it? There's other firms as well like that.
But regulation, I think, will always assist.
We see this, you know, with solar. Solar,
you know, will be a little bit cheaper
when regulatory environments come in,
(25:37):
but the choice to choose solar is is
still a low cost option irregardless.
So I always think that regulation can always
assist. It can always help us. But when
it fundamentally comes to the innovation and breakthrough
that delivers value for our business, that's something
that only business consultants and business people can
really support in.
Yeah. Yeah.
What is what is your opinion about is
(25:58):
it ethical for wealthy countries to set high
sustainability standards
when poorer nations struggle to meet basic development
needs?
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that's a huge discussion
globally.
When we think about, you know, our wealthy
countries
or our less fortunate countries, you know, more
responsible
for sustainability.
But when you look at the data and
(26:19):
you look at where the emissions are coming
from, it's fundamentally a problem with wealthy countries.
Wealthy countries are the the real polluters.
Yes. They're the ones that produce the majority
of emissions. And even when you think about,
you know, in the US, we we like
to say we'll go tough on China
a lot. It's a it's a very popular
phrase,
and on their on their emissions to go
(26:41):
tough on them. But the ironic thing of
it is that China produces
almost 90% of the goods that we purchase.
So they're manufacturing
pretty much our goods.
So it's a little ironic for us to
blame them for something that we're buying.
So it's fundamentally a lot of the emissions
around the world are from wealthy countries, but
also the emissions that are not from the
(27:02):
wealthy world
are also directly related to the wealthy world.
So it's fundamentally important that wealthy countries actually
be very critical of themselves
more than anyone else. We are the I
don't know. Mass over consumers
and we are the ones who have to
lead. We have the ones to look at
ourselves in the mirror and say, this is
hard to do. No country finds this easy.
(27:25):
We are the ones who have to be,
you know, the most responsible
and invest the most in this. And there's
so many great solutions out there that make
business sense. We need to invest in those.
We need to spend a little extra time
to be really thinking about those.
But it's it's so ironic when I hear
countries talk about, oh, yeah, we should be
tough on Zimbabwe,
which is a beautiful country,
but they don't have really any emissions. I
(27:46):
mean, you know, they're not the ones who
are really the creators of climate change or
the ones responsible for it. It doesn't make
any sense. So,
I think that the ROI also can be
in wealthy countries as well too, investing in
these sustainable capital infrastructure projects. You're gonna see
the ROI in the wealthy world as as
well too. And of course, we need to
partner with everyone,
but we shouldn't play a blame game. We
(28:07):
really need to look in the mirror and
say, what are we doing wrong?
That's how we are solving we have to
solve this problem.
Yeah.
I think the consumer has a lot of
things to do with this. So what if
any sacrifices should consumers make to support sustainable
practices and where should businesses lead
instead?
(28:27):
Yeah. So in terms of what customers can
do, and I mean customers both in a
private sense, in a personal sense as well
as in a business sense as well when
you're thinking about which suppliers you wanna purchase
from.
And, you know, it's been very famous for
some time to talk about boycotting.
That's a pretty, you know, familiar concept for
most people. But there's
a term I coined in my book which
(28:48):
is called procodding.
And that's actually where you go out of
your way to sponsor a business that you
believe in.
And I think what's wonderful about this is
it's also really enjoyable, it's really fun because
you get to go out of your way
to find a business that you truly believe
in, that truly matters to you and you
feel good about.
So I think of, you know, technologies, one
(29:09):
of them that comes to mind is Ather
Diamonds.
Ather Diamonds, they actually take air pollution out
of the air and create a diamond out
of it. They take the carbon dioxide pollution
in the air and they sequester it down
and make a diamond out of it.
Or Prometheus Fuels, they have a similar technology,
they take pollution out of the air and
they turn it back into car fuel.
(29:29):
There's these amazing
technologies
that, you know, wouldn't have been possible 10
years ago that are out there, that exist,
that are already supplying to their customers,
and you should you hop on that train.
You should encourage them. You should, you know,
be a part of that.
I think that it's always a really great
source of of seeing what innovation is out
there.
So really go after the innovative suppliers. Go
(29:51):
after the innovative consumer brands that are really
talking to you and your values. Go out
of your way. The only sacrifice I think
that you should do is to spend a
little extra time finding them.
And, you know, it can be something as
simple as if I need, you know, sustainable
cosmetics or I need sustainable,
you know, fuel, whatever it happens to be.
Go on Google and type in sustainable blank.
(30:13):
And it sounds simple,
but going out of your way to do
a little extra homework, you will find there
are there's an overwhelming amount of companies out
there that are doing wonderful things, that are
treating their employees well, that are treating the
planet well, and giving you a very unique
experience that you may have never thought of
before.
So I always think that if you're a
consumer of your business trying to choose your
(30:35):
suppliers, the sacrifice should be spending a little
extra time to find the most innovative company
in the market.
And it'll always, you know, kind of brighten
your day a little bit too. I don't
know, it kind of does that for me
as well, but when you go and you
find this really cool company
doing something right, it it definitely kind of,
makes you feel more positive as well.
Yeah. I feel the same too. Yeah.
(30:57):
So in pursuing innovation and eco friendly practices,
is there a risk that the industries are
losing sight of foundational values like service and
community?
I would say that
no, because a huge part of innovation and
sustainability
is about bringing community into the experience.
(31:17):
You think of something just as simple as
using a plate that is a banana leaf.
You know, this is something that's true culturally
in a lot of tropical cultures all over
the world.
It's a very sustainable
it's also very low cost to have these
plates made out of banana leaves, and it
also brings in the local culture
into that experience.
Fundamentally, when you think of
(31:39):
whatever culture you're talking about,
7 generations back what our great great great
grandmothers were doing, is often very sustainable.
So when we're thinking about sustainability being at
the forefront, innovation being at the forefront, fundamentally
bringing the cultures in and bringing the communities
in aligns with that.
And so, I think that the biggest risk
is not being able to move fast enough,
(32:01):
because markets right now are incredibly competitive.
Innovation needs to be a part of your
business offering. If you feel comfortable,
that's the
that's the nudge you need to know that
you need to start innovating,
because it's when you feel comfortable that your
competitor
or another business might disrupt the market, might
start leading in the market. So you should
never feel comfortable. You should always be innovating,
(32:22):
always be thinking about how can I add
more value to the products that I offer?
So the real risk is that you won't
move fast enough in the market.
And sustainable organizations, what's interesting about them is
that they are more likely to survive recessions.
And the reason for that is because they're
often more innovative.
You know, when you think okay times are
hard, I'm not going to invest in innovation,
(32:44):
which is very frequently what you hear a
lot of businesses saying. Okay, times are tough.
I'm just gonna try to survive. I'm not
gonna try to innovate or change.
That's when you actually need the innovation the
most because it might make the difference between
you surviving and not surviving.
And so that's why sustainable organizations actually tend
to survive through tough times, tend to survive
through recessions.
It's because they're willing to innovate, you know,
(33:05):
even when times are hard.
Yeah. I mean, there is an attitude that
you it's like you you should think like
a start up that you when you started
your business and when you're at your best
at the moment. So isn't it? Yeah.
Yeah.
How should companies prioritize sustainability when it might
conflict with short term financial gains and investor
(33:26):
expectations?
Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I haven't seen it
really conflict with short term financial gains, but
it normally has a longer term reach.
So when you think about something like solar,
oftentimes, the payback period for that is gonna
be anywhere from 1 year to 5 years.
And so what's really important I see is
the difference just between the short term gain
(33:46):
and the long term gain.
And what you really need to be doing
throughout that process is communicating
the payback period on a lot of the
investments into innovation.
So Larry Fink who's who's c CEO of
BlackRock, he's a controversial figure, but I think
what's interesting about his literature
is he often talks about fighting back against
(34:07):
this quarterly reporting format on Wall Street,
whereas actually just switching to an annual reporting
format
enables them to invest heavily into innovation.
It's very hard to see returns on innovation
or sustainability
within a 3 month time frame, but within
a year, you actually can see the ROI
on it. So it's really the difference between
a quarter a year 2 years. That's really
(34:29):
the difference that we're talking about. We're not
talking about a 10 year out time frame.
And so really what you need to be
doing with the investor is making sure that
they're not too short sighted.
You need to be constantly communicating
whatever it is, whatever program you're talking about
with them. We're not thinking about a quarter,
we're thinking about a year or 2 years.
And constantly be continuing that because you need
(34:49):
to survive in the short term and in
the long term. So when you're talking to
the investor,
you need to say we need to balance
both. We need to balance the quarterly report
and we need to balance a 2 year
time frame, you know,
mindset. So always when you're talking to your
investors, you should be always reminding them that
thinking from a 2 year time frame is
also just as important
(35:10):
as thinking about a quarterly timeline. So you
need to have metrics, you need to be
constantly communicating that and making sure they're not
losing sight of that long term vision.
Yeah. True.
Do you believe true innovation and sustainability
will only come when there's a fundamental shift
in human values?
If so, what does that shift look like?
(35:31):
No. I think that the markets actually are
really demanding
continuing innovation,
and innovation
needs to continue for, again, not just that
1 year period but onwards. And so the
only way to do that is to integrate
the long term into your mindset.
When I think of, you know, the really
foundational investors in solar,
(35:54):
a lot of them were pension funds, which
is kind of interesting. They were the ones
that really invested in solar in the early
days to bring down the price and to
really invest in the technology.
This is actually not because
it was morally right
or because they had a sustainability focus at
all. It's what made most business sense because
(36:14):
thinking from a 30 year out standpoint
at that time,
solar made the most sense in terms of
its return on investment.
So whenever you integrate the long term
into your business model, innovation and sustainability thrive.
And so, you know, I think that what
we're seeing right now is that, you know,
we really need to be thinking about that
(36:34):
long term survival.
And so sustainability is fundamentally a part of
that because it enables us to think out
of the box to be able to innovate.
Yeah. We're also thinking about
the the the generation that is
5, 6 years old and what kind of
world are we leaving to them.
Yeah. Absolutely.
Well, Vanessa, I have 2 more questions before
(36:57):
we wrap up and one question I'd like
to ask all my guests.
Besides
what we talked about, which was
a lot, what trends do you see happening
in hospitality that hospital hoteliers
should take note of?
Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I think actually in a
way it does tie in a bit,
but I think that one of the things
that I see as a trend in hospitality
is really bringing in very
(37:20):
unique experiences,
particularly what we see with the crowd that
is under, you know, 35.
This particular generation of consumers
is particularly interested in experiences,
even more than luxury goods.
Services are, you know, on the rise
and they're particularly important for this crowd. So,
you know, they're spending more of their disposable
income
(37:41):
on hospitality,
on services than the previous generations that were
more likely to invest in luxury goods than
luxury services.
So this is something that's particularly relevant for
them, and making sure that we're incorporating their
values into it is also what enables you
to differentiate yourself in the market.
And one of the key ways is including
community and culture
(38:02):
into your experience so that you can differentiate
yourself in the market. There's a lot of
noise out there and so making sure that
you stand out
is really important.
Yeah. Absolutely.
So lastly, if people are interested to find
more about the system sustainability
experts and, what you do in terms of
keynote spear speeches. I know you've been on
(38:22):
TED Talk and so on. How can they
find you?
Yeah. Absolutely. So we also have our own
podcast as well too in addition to the
keynotes, which you can find on Spotify, you
can find on Apple Podcasts, all the typical
podcast platforms.
But if you're interested in looking at us
for speaking, consulting, or looking at the podcast,
I really recommend connecting with us on LinkedIn.
(38:42):
That's really the the site that we're able
to connect and collaborate with the most people
on.
And you can find us at the Sustainability
Experts.
And our website is the dash sustainability
dash experts dot com.
And coming shortly in the next week, vanessathompson.com
will also be the the go to place
for for keynote speaking.
(39:02):
So we would love to collaborate with you
and learn from you. If you just wanna
share, you know, a really interesting experience,
that you think would be helpful for the
sustainability experts, you know, feel free to reach
out to us.
Fantastic.
Well, thank you very much, Vanessa. This has
been a very good discussion. I learned a
lot about you and also about your values
and and what you stand for. So thank
you very much again. It has been it
(39:23):
has been a delight. Thank you. Thank you
so much.
Thanks for joining us this week on The
Social Hotelier Show. Make sure to visit our
website, the socialhoteliershowblueberry.net,
where you can subscribe to the show in
Apple Podcasts,
Spotify,
Google Play, or via RSS,
so you never miss a show.
(39:44):
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Be sure to tune in for our next
episode.
What is it about these sustainable companies, these
sustainable ventures, the sustainability
as a mindset
that's actually helping the companies innovate more?
And so that's kind of what I wanted
to ask myself, and a few years ago,
a book publisher reached out to me and
asked me to write a book on innovation,
and that really helped me dive into that
topic even deeper. I had started that work
(00:21):
at UC Berkeley doing some research with with
a Nobel, Peace Prize winning author,
and then kind of continued that research into
my own book. And that book became 60
case studies.
Welcome to another episode of The Social Hotelier
Show with me, Sam Erik Ruthman.
With the eye of deep in the world
of visionary leaders, reshaping industries with passion, purpose,
(00:44):
and perseverance,
Today, I have the pleasure of hosting Vanessa
Thompson, a pioneer in sustainable finance and innovation
who has spent over a decade driving transformational
change within global corporations and trailblazing pathways
toward impactful sustainable futures.
Vanessa's journey spans roles at the UN Foundation,
(01:05):
The Nature Conservancy,
and the World Bank. Along with leadership at
Silicon Valley's Cutting Adventures,
now as a managing director at the Sustainability
Experts, she spearheads strategies
that empowers Fortune 500 companies to meet and
exceed ambitious sustainability targets.
With her groundbreaking book on sustainable leadership
(01:26):
set to release next year,
I can't wait to see that one, well,
Vanessa Vanessa has already shared her insights on
how the business can not only embrace sustainability
but use it as a catalyst for innovation
and growth.
In today's conversation, we'll explore
the intersections of leadership,
(01:47):
sustainability,
and the bold vision that fuels Vanessa's work.
This episode is just about not just not
about ideas, it's taking about action to create
a legacy of responsible, conscious growth.
So whether you're a business leader, an entrepreneur,
or simply someone who cares about the future,
get ready for inspiring conversation that might just
(02:07):
change the way you think about sustainable
success. So Vanessa, welcome and thank you very
much for joining me today. Thank you so
much for having me.
Well, let's get started. I think for our
audience to get some,
background and tell can you please tell me
about your inspiration
to get into this field and you must
share
the the story about,
(02:27):
your time at the Berkeley and the interesting
course you took. So,
I'm very curious to hear about that part.
So please share us your
inspiration how you got started.
Yeah. Absolutely. So,
I'm originally from Silicon Valley or the San
Francisco Bay Area.
And it's a very unique culture. I would
say that it's it's a really great place,
(02:49):
to be from and there's countless startups there.
Of course, you know, I went to UC
Berkeley which was a huge part of the
Silicon Valley kind of,
economy that that rose out of it.
And I think what's interesting about it is
that we really have this kind of mindset
of innovation
and sustainability kind of at the heart. And
nowadays there's, you know, Silicon Valleys all over
(03:10):
the world. People often say, you know, this
is the Silicon Valley of this particular region.
But at the time when I was growing
up, it it was really the San Francisco
Bay Area being at the heart of that.
And of course, yes, I went to UC
Berkeley which was a wonderful program.
I worked,
specifically in research that was economics related, but
the econometrics was all around remodeling renewable energy
(03:31):
and things like that, which is a very
unique degree program that we were able to
do there, which was wonderful.
And, you know, after that I ended up
working at countless clean tech startups.
You know, you mentioned I worked at the
UN Foundation, a lot of, you know, bigger
organizations as well, even venture capital groups.
And seeing all of these startups and growing
up in that culture, I I was constantly
(03:52):
asking myself the question, why is it that
sustainable companies
are able to develop IP faster,
go to market quicker,
and better at retaining talent?
What is it about these sustainable companies, these
sustainable ventures, the sustainability as a mindset
that's actually helping the companies innovate more.
And so that's kind of what I wanted
to ask myself. And a few years ago,
(04:15):
a book publisher reached out to me
and asked me to write a book on
innovation.
And that really helped me dive into that
topic even deeper. I had started that work
at UC Berkeley doing some research with with
a Nobel,
Peace Prize winning author,
and then it kind of continued that research
into my own book.
And that book became 60 case studies of
successful businesses that have become more innovative
(04:36):
using the principles of sustainability.
And these are principles that any business can
use in any particular industry that can help
them be more innovative and really accelerate innovation
in their business.
And so that's kind of what ended up
starting me speaking internationally on the topics of
innovation, giving keynotes on that.
And you know, as I was working on
these workshops with different companies,
(04:59):
I was really helping them, you know, come
up with new product ideas, helping them innovate
in their organizations.
And the sustainability experts which came out of
it was a consulting practice. They kind of
seemed like the next step,
that, you know, companies really needed that support.
I think particularly in hospitality, you know, it's
really an experience economy.
And so constantly evolving that experience
(05:20):
around the customer is so vital and so
important. And so innovation around that is so,
incredibly important as well. So, yeah, the sustainability
experts kind of came out of needing to
help companies with that that innovation practice.
Well, that's a great name. I mean, just
understanding you you work for like,
UN Foundation, and you are with the, startups.
(05:41):
And that's always what I've heard is like
a organized or unorganized chaos. And maybe when
you were the startup world, how did you
deal with that and to,
to keep things in track and looking at
the things from your perspective that are they
are they actually focused on those sustainable
actuals or something that you were guiding them
on?
(06:02):
Yeah, absolutely. So particularly working on a startup,
one of the most important things is having
a very clear vision because at a certain
point, you know, the minimum viable product is
not even there at some points.
And so what it it all is surrounding
around is these brilliant group of people who
have to have a very clear mission and
have that mission be the same across all
of those individuals.
(06:22):
And sustainability ends up being a great way
to organize people around it
because you actually give them meaning beyond just
a paycheck, beyond just thinking that this company
might become more successful. You give them meaning
and you give them a kind of, I
like to say, moon mission,
where you're actually driving people to say, we
are going to change the industry, we're going
to disrupt the industry and you're going to
(06:43):
be a part of it, your family's going
to be a part of it. And so
when you have that as a mission and
when you have a really authentic sustainability mission,
it really helps, you know, draw everyone together.
So I've been an advisor to to startups.
I've also worked in startups helping them raise
capital. So a number of different roles within
that, and all of them were different but
(07:03):
creating that vision is something that's true across
all these experiences.
In a world of increasing,
focus on quick profits,
is
is is it true sustainability
possible or is it just a marketing strategy?
Sustainability
is really the key to long term success.
(07:23):
And,
I like to use this one example of
a business called Interface. It was voted one
of the most sustainable companies in the US
and it actually went from being not a
sustainable organization at all and making a huge
transition to become more innovative, investing in incredible
patents, and becoming the leading sustainability firm in
the United States, which is really interesting. And
(07:44):
they did this all in the 19 nineties,
when you didn't have the benefits that you
have today of sustainability
press.
And a lot of people talk about, okay,
yeah, sustainability is great for your marketing team,
it's great for your PR, it's great for
all those things. They didn't have any of
those benefits
because at the time it was actually unpopular,
particularly in their industry which was manufacturing,
(08:04):
to have sustainability
at the forefront.
And so they actually kind of hated some
of their sustainability
and actually just talked about the patents, but
sustainability was fundamentally a part of their philosophy.
And so, I think that they're a really
interesting case study because the patents that they
invested in helped them survive a few recessions
when their competitors didn't.
And so it's it's really proof that sustainability
(08:26):
is really about thinking innovatively
and that, you know, of course there's the
cherry on top with marketing or PR, but
there's also the reverse of greenwashing, which happens
quite a bit too. Because sustainability inherently makes
good business sense. There are some companies that
actually will hide their sustainability investments and sustainability
practices because it makes business sense, but it
(08:47):
doesn't make good PR sense. So it depends
on the industry. For example,
there's a lot of luxury brands including Prada
that actually have recycled plastic in a lot
of their products.
But because that's not good for the PR
of the company because it's a luxury brand,
they actually hide that. So you have to
read through their full sustainability report to find
that out. They don't share that in marketing,
they don't share that in PR.
(09:08):
So it doesn't really make sense for their
marketing strategy. So I would say, you know,
you have to be thinking very innovatively about
sustainability. There needs to be a clear ROI
And sometimes that aligns with marketing goals and
sometimes it doesn't.
But you need to be thinking about it
as part of your business model.
Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned
luxury brands like Prada, but I'm seeing now
(09:29):
on,
on
advertising on social media of
similar companies like Italian companies, for instance, Loro
Piana, which is very famous for their
wool and cashmere, and they are recycling
some of their their materials to create a
new product. And they are quite proud of,
being open about it and I found that
(09:50):
quite interesting and refreshing because I know it
now things are actually coming out. It's actually
quite acceptable
Yeah. That it can be recycled but it
has to be done at the at the
quality. It doesn't come as a as a
lower quality product at the end. So I
think that's it's always a fine
fine line.
But also, I mean, you mentioned about
(10:11):
hospitality
and I'm afraid to say that our industry
has been
really notoriously about that. We are very proud
of not using plastic straws anymore. I mean,
and that's where where our mission is that
we are kind of in a sad state.
And there's a lot of work to be
done,
with this.
Have you kind of kept an eye a
little bit on about
hospitality, what they are doing, and are there
(10:33):
certain things that you think that,
would be very helpful from your point of
view that they should pay more attention to?
Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that, you know,
something that's somewhat overlooked to a large regard
is that when we're thinking about building experiences
for customers,
nature is actually at the heart of that.
When you think of experiences that are positive
(10:55):
for individuals, nature is somehow a part of
that experience. When you think about just the
interior design, when you walk into a hotel,
beautiful hotels and aesthetic places
have natural elements as a part of that
aesthetic. They're gonna have beautiful wood, they're going
to have some kinds of plants on the
inside, you're gonna have a water element. All
of those things are vital to have a
(11:17):
great aesthetic. So even just thinking from an
aesthetic point of view, nature's a part of
fundamentally good experience.
And there's tons of research around this, but
it's super interesting to actually dive into.
Because just when we think about a 10
minute walk in nature, of course that lowers
your blood blood pressure, it makes you relax,
it reduces feelings of anxiety, all the things
(11:37):
that you wanna do when you're on vacation,
when you're at a beautiful hotel.
But what's also interesting is that it also
reduces
chances of cancer. It reduces all sorts of
symptoms of disease. So nature's fundamentally a part
of us and it's fundamentally a part of
positive experiences.
And so when we're thinking of
beyond just removing harm, but actually investing in
(11:59):
a quality experience
where you actually can have a higher margin
and more value for your customer,
you fundamentally need to be thinking about how
am I going to invest in nature
strategically
to have a great experience?
And nature is fundamentally a part of that
and I have a few examples that we
can we can get into.
But that's kind of when we're thinking about
a concept of how do we want to
(12:20):
invest in our business to have greater value,
nature's at the heart of that. So we
need to be thinking about how do we
bring in more elements of nature to enhance
our overall experience.
You're truly almost talking like a fin here
because that's how we how we are thinking
about those things and because the nature is
something very important to us and,
and, this is really at the essence is
(12:42):
also I I really have,
a lot of
sympathy in terms of how the way you're
speaking about this part because this is something
that
I'm working on on regular basis, on daily
basis when we are designing hotels that and
that we are, designing human sustainable experiences, we
call it. Maybe it sounds like a cliche,
but it really means that
(13:04):
we never cut a single piece of wood
in the forest. We actually
build and design around what actually lives already
there because we know that
the the luxury is outside the window from
the room. So that's a very interesting point
that you mentioned. But one part also about
the
in hospitality, which is quite important and I
(13:25):
have
a comes from the time when,
when I was thinking of what is the
the definition of hospitality.
Originally, I thought, you know, when I started
my career in during the analog area, which
is a while ago, it was like customer
is king. That's how we were taught about
these things. But now
(13:46):
definition of hospitality is what I talk about
is is community.
So this is something that I think feel
very important and I think I want to
just
maybe question it. How do you balance the
needs and traditions of local communities
with the goals of global development projects? Any
thoughts we have on on this aspect?
Yes. Absolutely. And actually, one great case study
(14:08):
from our book comes to mind with this.
So I'll tell you kind of a short
story and then a principle that might apply
to the audience, which is there's this company
called Red Sea Global and they're a hotel
development company. And they're mainly around the Red
Sea.
And they come into areas and of course
what happens with a lot of hotel development
is that the local community is not valued,
(14:28):
they're not heard, sometimes they're occasionally moved out
of a certain area. So there's a lot
of problems that that can arise from that.
And Red Sea Global wanted to change that.
And so they came in with the mindset
that we're gonna listen to the local community
and we're really going to listen.
And this is always the hard part, they
did listen. And the locals asked for 2
(14:51):
things that seemed at first to be completely
unrelated from their business model, but ended up
being the key differentiators
that made them succeed in the market.
But at first, it seemed strange.
The first one was that they wanted a
banana farm.
And the second was that they wanted sailboats,
their traditional authentic sailboats of their culture.
(15:12):
Both things most business people would say, That's
great, but that's not really what I do.
And Red Sea Global was going to be
innovative about this. They said, Okay, how are
we going to make this work and make
this make sense for our business model? So
they invested in the banana farms. They made
huge investments into agriculture around the area and
created a very unique farm to table experience
(15:32):
that differentiated them in the market and got
very high ratings for all of their restaurants.
In fact, many of their guests actually went
specifically to the hotel for those experiences.
They also invested in sailboats, which became a
very unique cultural experience
that people could enjoy when going to their
hotels that no other hotel had these unique
(15:53):
sailing experiences. So specifically,
for people who were interested in sailing, this
was a experience you could have nowhere else
in the world.
And so in terms of embracing the local
culture, actually became their key differentiator in the
market. And I think this is particularly
true for hospitality.
Sometimes it doesn't always make sense at first,
and you do have to make that initial
(16:14):
investment
into really understanding the local culture, understanding how
that connects with the business model.
However, if you take that time to really
invest in the local culture and bring that
local culture into your experience,
it wildly differentiates you in the market. And
this is something that the most successful
hotels actually do, is they bring in the
(16:34):
local culture to some degree. And so when
you're thinking about differentiating yourself in the market,
that's something you should be thinking about. You
should be thinking about bringing in that that
unique cultural element because hotels are not buildings
that stand alone.
Right? They're a whole experience. They're a whole
community around it. This is what you mentioned
with community. It's really important that we think
(16:54):
about collaborating
with our entire community because that experience is
really what you're selling and it involves that
entire environment around you. So you have to
be thinking about bringing that in in a
way that feels meaningful, it feels authentic, and
helps customers keep coming back.
Very good. And in fact,
most of the staff
(17:15):
working in the hotel
are they are from that community in fact.
So it actually is it proves a point
and also
if it's done well then
certain hotels now are having a policy that
they only buy
their products from local community and no more
than, let's say, 100 miles away. So if
you're in a in a area where,
(17:38):
that,
it's 100 miles away and only the fruits
and vegetables and root vegetables are growing there.
That's available
only in the hotel's menu. So if somebody
was asking for a nice
glass of fresh squeezed
Valencia orange from Spain, they will be
they will be a little bit disappointed. But
maybe when you say that, well, we have
(17:58):
some actually
fresh
apple juice from our farm here and that
actually is a local product
and that is something that we will see
more and more hotels taking on board that
we are not actually there to please the
customer, but also we are looking at looking
at the community and also to serve those,
community suppliers.
And and in a way, we are giving
(18:19):
an authentic experience.
When you say that this apple is from
the the
the the apple farm here nearby and it
tastes very good, that says something more than
than getting
a orange juice because it doesn't actually relate
to the location.
You're selling a memory. Exactly. Exactly.
Wow. You you really sound like a hotelier.
(18:40):
I like that.
What what responsibilities
should companies hold in reversing environmental environmental
damage and and how accountable should they be
to communities
directly affected because it's always an ongoing discussion.
Yeah. Absolutely. And this is where, you know,
there's been this huge trend in the market
(19:02):
towards regenerative
hospitality.
And what that really means is saying, how
can we move away from simply preventing harm
to actually investing
in a way that makes sense for the
business model? And just to kind of address
the harm piece first, it's really important to
be thinking about, okay, we do need to
reduce harm, that's a fundamental part of it
(19:22):
because that it does affect the bottom line.
And there's companies like Seabin that are great
example of this. So Seabin actually creates,
trash cans that exist in the sea for
litter and debris for specifically coastal hospitality when
we're thinking of that. Debris that come from
the sea so that they don't wash up
on shore because that does end up affecting
(19:43):
the hotel experience. And if you have huge
mounds of plastic even if you didn't produce
it, if it's coming from the sea and
washing up on your beaches, that does end
up affecting your hotel, it does end up
affecting the experience.
So Seabin has been, you know, making a
great business model out of this in terms
of cleaning up the sea around those harbors
and bays, and they just went IPO recently.
(20:04):
So there's a lot of, organizations and a
lot of companies that you can partner with
to reduce that harm so that you can
make sure that you're giving the best experience
to your customer.
Then beyond that, when we're thinking about, okay,
not just reducing harm, but really investing in
nature itself,
that becomes a really interesting and wonderful part
of it. So when we think about something
(20:25):
just as simple as planting trees, let's think
about planting trees around your hotel,
It actually increases your property value by up
to 15%
just by planting trees. That's an incredible ROI
when you think of a few cents
for a tree seed
and you think of the 15%
increase in valuation of your property, that's just
talking about the real estate aspect of your
(20:45):
property.
That's incredible.
And that also does translate to customer loyalty
and retention,
and also increasing the value that you can
also charge your customers as well too. So
thinking about investing in nature's incredible piece of
hospitality,
one great hotel that, you know, many people
might know is called 6 Senses.
It's in the seashells and it's a luxury
(21:06):
experience.
But you'll see there's, you know, all these
nature elements that are coming into the hotel
room. You have huge boulders
and beautiful elements of nature that are actually
coming into the hotel
and surrounding the guests. And that is one
of the reasons why they're able to charge
so much, which I think is an interesting
element of it. When you have nature quite
literally coming into the hotel room
(21:27):
by having beautiful walls that are part of
the natural space itself,
people are willing to go out of their
way
to a hotel that offers that. And so
when you're thinking about, okay, how do I
want to invest in nature? Do I want
to invest in surrounding my building? Even with
something as simple as trees. If you're a
hotel that's in a city for example, you
can do that. You can surround your building
(21:48):
with trees, you can have small, you know,
elements of plants on the balcony. All of
those things actually increase your value significantly and
there's a huge ROI just in simple measures
like that. But when you're wanting to think
about how can I innovate beyond that? Regenerative
hospitality
is all about thinking about, okay, how can
nature be at the heart of this experience?
(22:08):
Very good. Yes. You're you're so right in
that.
Is the sustainable luxury market hypocritical
given the luxury sector environmental impact or can
luxury generally drive meaningful change?
Yeah. So sustainable luxury actually normally allows for
greater investment
and also greater ROI.
(22:29):
So when we think about coming back to,
you know, increasing value of trees,
or we think about trees also can actually
prevent storms,
and it's a pretty significant impact that it
has. When you invest in a small area
of land around your hotel, for example,
than when you're planting trees, you can actually
reduce
(22:49):
the impact of a storm by over half.
And it's really, really incredible to see that
you could protect your facility, you can protect
the experience by surrounding yourself in nature.
And so even, you know, I just wanna
kind of finish that thought, you know, trees
can even make people more peaceful.
It's even shown to reduce violent crime.
In neighborhoods that have more trees, it actually
(23:11):
reduces violent crime. So it affects our psychology
so much
that we're less likely to commit a violent
crime by simply seeing a tree. That's a
pretty profound
impact that it has. And so when we
think about sustainable luxury, what we're able to
do with that is we're actually able to
invest more
into the source of value that's enabling us
to charge more
(23:32):
and then will enable us to see a
higher ROI.
So we can see this with capital infrastructure
investments like solar or re reusables as well
too. We can have that higher upfront cost
that ends up actually reducing costs over time.
But this is also good not just for
sustainable luxury, this is also good for affordable
accommodations as well. What you see with renewable
(23:53):
energy is that it's actually the cheapest form
of electricity that there is.
And when we think about reusable long term,
that actually does end up cutting down on
long term costs when we think about how
can we have more reusable as a part
of our experience.
And Mhmm. It ends up actually delivering a
lot more value too, because when you have
things in glass and metal and wood and
(24:13):
these natural elements, people want to come back
and they actually have a more enjoyable experience.
So
there's there's a lot of information there but,
I think that sustainable luxury offers you to
invest more into what's giving the customers value.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Are regulatory frameworks around the world enough to
(24:33):
support
innovation
we need in sustainability
or they or they hinder more than help?
No. I wouldn't say that regulation is enough,
and, regulation also isn't normally innovative enough to
come up with the solutions that you need
to be thinking about. So hotels need to
be thinking about sustainability in their spaces. It's,
(24:53):
you know, a huge part of the business.
And they're also heavily affected by pollution. So
this is a fundamental part of the experience.
There's really no way around it.
And business people and innovators, they really have
to think differently.
And they have to be thinking in a
way that's more innovative. You know, I like
to say an innovator is someone where others
see a problem, they see a product.
(25:15):
And so you have to be thinking about
where is the opportunity here?
The Nature Conservancy is great in assisting businesses
with thinking about how can I invest in
nature and actually get a profit out of
it? There's other firms as well like that.
But regulation, I think, will always assist.
We see this, you know, with solar. Solar,
you know, will be a little bit cheaper
when regulatory environments come in,
(25:37):
but the choice to choose solar is is
still a low cost option irregardless.
So I always think that regulation can always
assist. It can always help us. But when
it fundamentally comes to the innovation and breakthrough
that delivers value for our business, that's something
that only business consultants and business people can
really support in.
Yeah. Yeah.
What is what is your opinion about is
(25:58):
it ethical for wealthy countries to set high
sustainability standards
when poorer nations struggle to meet basic development
needs?
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that's a huge discussion
globally.
When we think about, you know, our wealthy
countries
or our less fortunate countries, you know, more
responsible
for sustainability.
But when you look at the data and
(26:19):
you look at where the emissions are coming
from, it's fundamentally a problem with wealthy countries.
Wealthy countries are the the real polluters.
Yes. They're the ones that produce the majority
of emissions. And even when you think about,
you know, in the US, we we like
to say we'll go tough on China
a lot. It's a it's a very popular
phrase,
and on their on their emissions to go
(26:41):
tough on them. But the ironic thing of
it is that China produces
almost 90% of the goods that we purchase.
So they're manufacturing
pretty much our goods.
So it's a little ironic for us to
blame them for something that we're buying.
So it's fundamentally a lot of the emissions
around the world are from wealthy countries, but
also the emissions that are not from the
(27:02):
wealthy world
are also directly related to the wealthy world.
So it's fundamentally important that wealthy countries actually
be very critical of themselves
more than anyone else. We are the I
don't know. Mass over consumers
and we are the ones who have to
lead. We have the ones to look at
ourselves in the mirror and say, this is
hard to do. No country finds this easy.
(27:25):
We are the ones who have to be,
you know, the most responsible
and invest the most in this. And there's
so many great solutions out there that make
business sense. We need to invest in those.
We need to spend a little extra time
to be really thinking about those.
But it's it's so ironic when I hear
countries talk about, oh, yeah, we should be
tough on Zimbabwe,
which is a beautiful country,
but they don't have really any emissions. I
(27:46):
mean, you know, they're not the ones who
are really the creators of climate change or
the ones responsible for it. It doesn't make
any sense. So,
I think that the ROI also can be
in wealthy countries as well too, investing in
these sustainable capital infrastructure projects. You're gonna see
the ROI in the wealthy world as as
well too. And of course, we need to
partner with everyone,
but we shouldn't play a blame game. We
(28:07):
really need to look in the mirror and
say, what are we doing wrong?
That's how we are solving we have to
solve this problem.
Yeah.
I think the consumer has a lot of
things to do with this. So what if
any sacrifices should consumers make to support sustainable
practices and where should businesses lead
instead?
(28:27):
Yeah. So in terms of what customers can
do, and I mean customers both in a
private sense, in a personal sense as well
as in a business sense as well when
you're thinking about which suppliers you wanna purchase
from.
And, you know, it's been very famous for
some time to talk about boycotting.
That's a pretty, you know, familiar concept for
most people. But there's
a term I coined in my book which
(28:48):
is called procodding.
And that's actually where you go out of
your way to sponsor a business that you
believe in.
And I think what's wonderful about this is
it's also really enjoyable, it's really fun because
you get to go out of your way
to find a business that you truly believe
in, that truly matters to you and you
feel good about.
So I think of, you know, technologies, one
(29:09):
of them that comes to mind is Ather
Diamonds.
Ather Diamonds, they actually take air pollution out
of the air and create a diamond out
of it. They take the carbon dioxide pollution
in the air and they sequester it down
and make a diamond out of it.
Or Prometheus Fuels, they have a similar technology,
they take pollution out of the air and
they turn it back into car fuel.
(29:29):
There's these amazing
technologies
that, you know, wouldn't have been possible 10
years ago that are out there, that exist,
that are already supplying to their customers,
and you should you hop on that train.
You should encourage them. You should, you know,
be a part of that.
I think that it's always a really great
source of of seeing what innovation is out
there.
So really go after the innovative suppliers. Go
(29:51):
after the innovative consumer brands that are really
talking to you and your values. Go out
of your way. The only sacrifice I think
that you should do is to spend a
little extra time finding them.
And, you know, it can be something as
simple as if I need, you know, sustainable
cosmetics or I need sustainable,
you know, fuel, whatever it happens to be.
Go on Google and type in sustainable blank.
(30:13):
And it sounds simple,
but going out of your way to do
a little extra homework, you will find there
are there's an overwhelming amount of companies out
there that are doing wonderful things, that are
treating their employees well, that are treating the
planet well, and giving you a very unique
experience that you may have never thought of
before.
So I always think that if you're a
consumer of your business trying to choose your
(30:35):
suppliers, the sacrifice should be spending a little
extra time to find the most innovative company
in the market.
And it'll always, you know, kind of brighten
your day a little bit too. I don't
know, it kind of does that for me
as well, but when you go and you
find this really cool company
doing something right, it it definitely kind of,
makes you feel more positive as well.
Yeah. I feel the same too. Yeah.
(30:57):
So in pursuing innovation and eco friendly practices,
is there a risk that the industries are
losing sight of foundational values like service and
community?
I would say that
no, because a huge part of innovation and
sustainability
is about bringing community into the experience.
(31:17):
You think of something just as simple as
using a plate that is a banana leaf.
You know, this is something that's true culturally
in a lot of tropical cultures all over
the world.
It's a very sustainable
it's also very low cost to have these
plates made out of banana leaves, and it
also brings in the local culture
into that experience.
Fundamentally, when you think of
(31:39):
whatever culture you're talking about,
7 generations back what our great great great
grandmothers were doing, is often very sustainable.
So when we're thinking about sustainability being at
the forefront, innovation being at the forefront, fundamentally
bringing the cultures in and bringing the communities
in aligns with that.
And so, I think that the biggest risk
is not being able to move fast enough,
(32:01):
because markets right now are incredibly competitive.
Innovation needs to be a part of your
business offering. If you feel comfortable,
that's the
that's the nudge you need to know that
you need to start innovating,
because it's when you feel comfortable that your
competitor
or another business might disrupt the market, might
start leading in the market. So you should
never feel comfortable. You should always be innovating,
(32:22):
always be thinking about how can I add
more value to the products that I offer?
So the real risk is that you won't
move fast enough in the market.
And sustainable organizations, what's interesting about them is
that they are more likely to survive recessions.
And the reason for that is because they're
often more innovative.
You know, when you think okay times are
hard, I'm not going to invest in innovation,
(32:44):
which is very frequently what you hear a
lot of businesses saying. Okay, times are tough.
I'm just gonna try to survive. I'm not
gonna try to innovate or change.
That's when you actually need the innovation the
most because it might make the difference between
you surviving and not surviving.
And so that's why sustainable organizations actually tend
to survive through tough times, tend to survive
through recessions.
It's because they're willing to innovate, you know,
(33:05):
even when times are hard.
Yeah. I mean, there is an attitude that
you it's like you you should think like
a start up that you when you started
your business and when you're at your best
at the moment. So isn't it? Yeah.
Yeah.
How should companies prioritize sustainability when it might
conflict with short term financial gains and investor
(33:26):
expectations?
Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I haven't seen it
really conflict with short term financial gains, but
it normally has a longer term reach.
So when you think about something like solar,
oftentimes, the payback period for that is gonna
be anywhere from 1 year to 5 years.
And so what's really important I see is
the difference just between the short term gain
(33:46):
and the long term gain.
And what you really need to be doing
throughout that process is communicating
the payback period on a lot of the
investments into innovation.
So Larry Fink who's who's c CEO of
BlackRock, he's a controversial figure, but I think
what's interesting about his literature
is he often talks about fighting back against
(34:07):
this quarterly reporting format on Wall Street,
whereas actually just switching to an annual reporting
format
enables them to invest heavily into innovation.
It's very hard to see returns on innovation
or sustainability
within a 3 month time frame, but within
a year, you actually can see the ROI
on it. So it's really the difference between
a quarter a year 2 years. That's really
(34:29):
the difference that we're talking about. We're not
talking about a 10 year out time frame.
And so really what you need to be
doing with the investor is making sure that
they're not too short sighted.
You need to be constantly communicating
whatever it is, whatever program you're talking about
with them. We're not thinking about a quarter,
we're thinking about a year or 2 years.
And constantly be continuing that because you need
(34:49):
to survive in the short term and in
the long term. So when you're talking to
the investor,
you need to say we need to balance
both. We need to balance the quarterly report
and we need to balance a 2 year
time frame, you know,
mindset. So always when you're talking to your
investors, you should be always reminding them that
thinking from a 2 year time frame is
also just as important
(35:10):
as thinking about a quarterly timeline. So you
need to have metrics, you need to be
constantly communicating that and making sure they're not
losing sight of that long term vision.
Yeah. True.
Do you believe true innovation and sustainability
will only come when there's a fundamental shift
in human values?
If so, what does that shift look like?
(35:31):
No. I think that the markets actually are
really demanding
continuing innovation,
and innovation
needs to continue for, again, not just that
1 year period but onwards. And so the
only way to do that is to integrate
the long term into your mindset.
When I think of, you know, the really
foundational investors in solar,
(35:54):
a lot of them were pension funds, which
is kind of interesting. They were the ones
that really invested in solar in the early
days to bring down the price and to
really invest in the technology.
This is actually not because
it was morally right
or because they had a sustainability focus at
all. It's what made most business sense because
(36:14):
thinking from a 30 year out standpoint
at that time,
solar made the most sense in terms of
its return on investment.
So whenever you integrate the long term
into your business model, innovation and sustainability thrive.
And so, you know, I think that what
we're seeing right now is that, you know,
we really need to be thinking about that
(36:34):
long term survival.
And so sustainability is fundamentally a part of
that because it enables us to think out
of the box to be able to innovate.
Yeah. We're also thinking about
the the the generation that is
5, 6 years old and what kind of
world are we leaving to them.
Yeah. Absolutely.
Well, Vanessa, I have 2 more questions before
(36:57):
we wrap up and one question I'd like
to ask all my guests.
Besides
what we talked about, which was
a lot, what trends do you see happening
in hospitality that hospital hoteliers
should take note of?
Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I think actually in a
way it does tie in a bit,
but I think that one of the things
that I see as a trend in hospitality
is really bringing in very
(37:20):
unique experiences,
particularly what we see with the crowd that
is under, you know, 35.
This particular generation of consumers
is particularly interested in experiences,
even more than luxury goods.
Services are, you know, on the rise
and they're particularly important for this crowd. So,
you know, they're spending more of their disposable
income
(37:41):
on hospitality,
on services than the previous generations that were
more likely to invest in luxury goods than
luxury services.
So this is something that's particularly relevant for
them, and making sure that we're incorporating their
values into it is also what enables you
to differentiate yourself in the market.
And one of the key ways is including
community and culture
(38:02):
into your experience so that you can differentiate
yourself in the market. There's a lot of
noise out there and so making sure that
you stand out
is really important.
Yeah. Absolutely.
So lastly, if people are interested to find
more about the system sustainability
experts and, what you do in terms of
keynote spear speeches. I know you've been on
(38:22):
TED Talk and so on. How can they
find you?
Yeah. Absolutely. So we also have our own
podcast as well too in addition to the
keynotes, which you can find on Spotify, you
can find on Apple Podcasts, all the typical
podcast platforms.
But if you're interested in looking at us
for speaking, consulting, or looking at the podcast,
I really recommend connecting with us on LinkedIn.
(38:42):
That's really the the site that we're able
to connect and collaborate with the most people
on.
And you can find us at the Sustainability
Experts.
And our website is the dash sustainability
dash experts dot com.
And coming shortly in the next week, vanessathompson.com
will also be the the go to place
for for keynote speaking.
(39:02):
So we would love to collaborate with you
and learn from you. If you just wanna
share, you know, a really interesting experience,
that you think would be helpful for the
sustainability experts, you know, feel free to reach
out to us.
Fantastic.
Well, thank you very much, Vanessa. This has
been a very good discussion. I learned a
lot about you and also about your values
and and what you stand for. So thank
you very much again. It has been it
(39:23):
has been a delight. Thank you. Thank you
so much.
Thanks for joining us this week on The
Social Hotelier Show. Make sure to visit our
website, the socialhoteliershowblueberry.net,
where you can subscribe to the show in
Apple Podcasts,
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Google Play, or via RSS,
so you never miss a show.
(39:44):
While you're at it, if you find value
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