March 21, 2025 • 42 mins
Maximize Your Digital Ads ROI Proven Strategies for Lasting Success
Proven Strategies for Hotels, Restaurants, and Businesses to Succeed in Google Ads, Meta, and Beyond
Many businesses are burning through their digital advertising budgets without a clear strategy. As John Horn, CEO of @Stubgroup , reveals, success in digital marketing requires a thoughtful approach, patience, and strategic oversight. In this post, we’ll explore actionable steps to improve your advertising results while ensuring you stay compliant and avoid costly mistakes.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Think that's really important because a lot of
businesses, they look at advertising as some kind
of a magic bullet that's going to fix
all of their problems, and that's not how
advertising works. Advertising is really fuel on the
the fire of what you're doing. And so
if you have, you know, a bad business
model or an offer that's not compelling to
people and so forth, advertisers are not gonna
(00:20):
fix that. This is gonna get you more,
you know, more more bad. And so it's
really important to have your other things working
well and then look at advertising as, okay.
Now I'm gonna get more people into my
funnel, more people exposed to who I am,
and to try and and scale that way.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Social Hotelier
podcast with me, Sam Erik Ruttman.
(00:42):
Are you wasting thousands on digital ads without
even realizing it?
Most businesses are without a clear strategy.
In this episode, we uncover how to stop
burning your budget and start making your ads
work for you.
Join us for enlightening conversation with John Horn,
CEO of Stub Group, a leading digital advertising
(01:04):
agents agency.
In this episode, we will explore the cutting
edge strategies shaping Google Ads,
Meta, and beyond, and uncover how businesses, big
or small, can thrive in an AI driven
landscape.
Whether you are curious about avoiding common pitfalls,
tracking campaign success, or exploring the future of
(01:25):
platforms like TikTok and Pinterest,
this episode promises actionable insights and expert advice.
So don't miss the chance to stay ahead
of the curve.
So welcome, John, and thanks for joining us
today. Thank you so much for having me.
Well,
maybe we can get started is that,
first, I think for our audience to get
(01:46):
some background, can you share about your professional
experience?
Absolutely. So I've been really focused on the
digital advertising
space for
over the last decade,
specifically through my company, StuG Group, like you
mentioned, the CEO of, and
get to work with all sorts of different
types of businesses across a pretty wide, wide
(02:08):
spectrum of business models and industries
and helping them navigate that landscape of digital
advertising
platforms like the ones you mentioned and ultimately
figuring out how do we
find new customers, connect with them, bring them
on board in a cost effective way to
help businesses,
scale and, make more money online.
Very good. Well, to be successful, you must
(02:31):
have, on a personal level, some superpowers. Or
what what is your superpower?
I don't know if I'll be as so
bold to say I have a superpower, but
I would say I do, you know, genuinely
care about
the clients we work with, their success, the
quality of work that we that we put
into things. And I think that's incredibly important,
especially in the agency world that I'm a
(02:53):
part of is just, you know, not looking
at each client as, hey. Just another another
paycheck or, you know, a squeaky willy go
to put grease on, that type of thing,
but truly caring and saying, hey. I wanna
partner with them and figure out how we're
gonna make them successful.
And I think that's a very important thing
and something I I look for in all
the team members that we bring on board
to help our clients.
(03:14):
Yeah. So you really believe in a long
term relationship and developing trust and long term
working long term with your clients to set
them up for success.
Exactly.
Yeah. That's cool.
What are some
common pitfalls
or mistakes businesses make when managing
Google Ads campaigns? And and, can you maybe
give some examples on how can they avoid
(03:35):
them?
There are many. I would say one of
the most common ones I see is, especially
when advertisers
are
getting into Google Ads or deciding to test
it, and that is just
not thinking through what is success going to
look like and really having a strategy in
place when they go into it. A lot
of businesses take more of the approach of,
(03:56):
hey. Let's throw a bunch of stuff at
the wall and see what sticks. Yeah. And,
you know, to a certain extent, sometimes you
you need to do that. But when you
go into any platform, whether it be Google
Ads or anything else,
you need to
optimize your chances for success. Give yourself the
best leg up, so to speak. And so,
you know, you wanna think through things like,
okay. Well,
(04:16):
what is, again, what does success look like?
What am I trying to drive from these
campaigns? What action,
do I want people to take? Is it
calling me through my website? Is it filling
out a form on my own website? Is
it, you know, showing up physically at my
location? Things like that. And then you gotta
think through, okay, how am I going to
track that and track as well as I
can
which of those actions are coming from the
(04:37):
campaigns I'm running so I can understand, is
this working? Is it not working? And which
parts of it are working? So I can
I can scale that, double down on that,
and then cut the things that just aren't
aren't working and driving the results I want
to drive?
Yeah. I mean, you must have these conversations
with the with the with your initially with
a client of
about the goals and so on. And, when
(04:59):
you talk about pitfalls,
can you just share something that what is
the worst case scenario if they have such
a high expectations that, that they will start
to make, that is immediately successful and then
that and there may be a lack of
patience because
of the not having that experience. So what
are the things that you're telling them to
be cautious about?
Yeah. So a couple of specific things I
(05:20):
would say. First of all, you mentioned patience.
I think that's really important because a lot
of businesses,
they look at advertising as some kind of
a magic bullet that's going to fix all
of their problems.
And that's not how advertising works. Advertising is
really fuel on the fire of what you're
doing. And so if you have, you know,
a bad business model or an offer that's
(05:41):
not compelling to people or so forth, advertising
is not gonna fix that. This is gonna
get you more, you know, more more bad.
And so it's really important to have your
other things working well and then look at
advertising as, okay. Now I'm gonna get more
people into my funnel into my funnel, more
people exposed to who I am and to
try and and scale that way. So I
think that's that's, you know, looking at at
(06:03):
advertising at that magic bullet is a big,
a big mistake.
Yeah. I would also say,
another big mistake is
coming into things and
trusting
let's talk about Google specifically. This is true
of Meta as well, but but Google in
particular,
Trusting all of the best practices of the
platform. So, you know, that you can go
(06:26):
and create your own DIY campaigns with Google
Ads, for example,
and Google will walk you through. Like, hey.
Here's you know, do this, have this setting
turned on, etcetera.
But at the end of the day, a
lot of the the kind of default settings
and things that Google's gonna push you towards
are not necessarily
in your best interest as an advertiser.
And so a lot of people will just
do everything Google says, run campaigns. The campaigns
(06:48):
will bomb. They won't get good results, and
they'll say, oh, Google Ads doesn't work for
my business. But the reality is they haven't,
you know, run a good campaign to know
whether or not it could work for their
business. And, and so I see that happen
very often as well. Yeah. So do you
go through, like, a checklist with them,
in in about those settings and so on
(07:08):
so that you help them to avoid those
kind of pitfalls that,
somebody like,
if I go and get into advertising or
getting my ad,
advertising campaign that I I will not fall
fall into those kind of,
beginner's mistakes, if you will.
Yeah. We basically do all that work for
them. So we, you know, we're responsible for
(07:30):
the ad account, and we've got all those
internal things where it's like, okay. You know,
watch out for this. Watch out for that.
And then a lot of it's nuanced to
their business. So, you know, sometimes what is
a best practice and is a good setting
for this business is not a good setting
for that business. And that's where that human
element needs to come in and and kind
of analyze and say, okay.
For your business, for your specific goals, this
(07:52):
is the right, you know, set of settings
to start with and then go from there.
Yeah. Yeah. And,
people talk about them. And I I I
follow,
of course, the social media,
campaigns, and also I'm looking quite a bit
on, on Instagram, in fact. And I noticed
how,
hotels and restaurants
(08:13):
are more and more focusing
or getting their
having campaigns on on those rather than spending
on their traditional advertising.
But in your in your opinion, maybe some
tips you have, how can hotels and restaurants
leverage
the the platforms like Instagram or maybe Meta
Ads to create meaningful
customer engagement?
(08:34):
Yeah. Instagram,
Meta, you know, platforms like that can be
fantastic place, fantastic places to get that customer
engagement.
And I would encourage very much focusing on
on that word engagement. So how can we
get people actually engaging
with not just engaging with our content, but
creating content for us. So there's this idea
(08:54):
of of UGC or user generated content.
And there's lots of different creative ways that
brands can
encourage people to, you know, take photos, share
experiences about their experience with the brand. So
here's here's a good example.
I would say I've actually missed opportunity, but
something that could have been really good. So
I was traveling recently with my wife in
(09:15):
Rome in Italy, and we're just walking down
the street, came up to this sign.
It was it had a a picture of,
you know, well, two people kissing, and it
had something in Italian. So pull up Google
Translate. I don't know Italian, but okay. What
is this? Translated to English. And, basically, it's
it's something like, you know, kissing is mandatory
in this zone, something like that. That's kind
of a cute cute little thing. I was
like, oh, cool. And there's an Instagram handle
(09:36):
on there and what I thought it would
be was I thought it was gonna you
know be a location basically hey take a
picture of of you kissing and put it
on here and you'd have this you know
kind of really cool you know hashtag of
people at this location you know sharing an
intimate moment. It wasn't actually that. It was
just taking us to a clothing brand, which
was, you know, less exciting. But that could
have been a great experience. You know, if
(09:57):
you're setting something like that at your hotel
or your resort where you're encouraging people with
a hashtag
to capture that moment, share it, and then
all their friends and acquaintances on the social
platforms see that type of thing, and you're
getting all sorts of free and fantastic brand
exposure through things like that. Yeah. That's a
great tip. Absolutely. I think the I mean,
(10:17):
there are hotels, of course, and restaurants who
are, particularly hotels, who are,
they they are, trying to set up a
sort of a
Instagrammable
location
of the hotel.
Some of the hotels or resorts have a
natural setting, so they really don't need to
do anything about it. But, actually, then, on
the other side, you have the some indoor
space or whether it's off the lobby or
(10:39):
in in a kind of quiet corner where
they have,
there's a famous artist who has created some
kind of artwork. And
and this is a kind of a background
for
successful
selfless, if you will. So there are many
ways hotels can can leverage this opportunity and
also creating some call to action to get
a little bit of a conversation going there.
(10:59):
Isn't it?
Absolutely. Yep. You know, having,
a mural there, like you said, which is
a great spot and having, you know, a
hashtag, having just kinda clearly delineated areas where,
hey. Yep. Share this.
As well as thinking through, you know, what's
something that you can do
to surprise in a very good way the
guest and create that moment of excitement where
(11:21):
they're like, you'll never believe what just happened
to me. They did this, and they just
want to share that with their friends. And,
you know, how do you share with friends
these days? Social media. So looking to to
create those moments of wonder and those
locations
that inspire people to
share what they're doing, share the experience they're
having, which then, by default, also shares your
(11:42):
your brand in a very positive light with
the world?
Yeah. Yeah.
I'm not, putting a plug here for a
for a friend of mine who's wrote a
book, but he wrote a book called Audacious.
So he is he's talking about all moment
of awe
and what you can, which is,
exactly what you are talking about. But, and
while I'm reading through the book as I
do at the moment, there is so many
(12:03):
examples that you you can be very bold
and do things so differently that,
it creates
a surprise moment, but, by the awe,
that you actually,
feel compelled to,
share it with
your community and your friends. So yeah.
With
(12:24):
the one of the things which I'm struggling
with is the search
SEO tactics. And I really,
banging my head because I'm always looking for
way how can
how can, either for my particular YouTube channel
and or when I do any postings, who
how I can get, drive more,
eyeballs on on my content.
(12:44):
But some of my question really is, with
the decline of traditional
SEO tactics,
how can business adapt their strategies to remain
visible in search rankings?
Yeah. SEO is is very different than it
used to be. You know, we're a long
way from those 10 blue links that used
to be the focus of optimization.
And now you've got you know, sure. You
(13:04):
still have the blue links, but you've got
ads. You have AI overviews. You have videos
and so forth.
And so one of the things that I
think it's important for businesses, for websites to
focus on is
what are what are the areas where there's
a bit less competition,
where you're you can get kind of more
bang for the buck in terms of the
(13:25):
investment of time and energy that you put
into things.
You mentioned YouTube, and I think that's an
area for a lot of websites
where that's something they can capitalize on. You
know, video results are a top thing that
comes up when you search on Google. They're
a big part of the the SERP now,
the search engine results page. And then obviously,
YouTube itself also is, as Google likes to
say, that second largest search engine, a place
(13:45):
where a lot of people actually go to
start searches as well.
And I would say for the majority of
industries,
there's there's gonna be just less content that
can come up on YouTube
than, you know, just, you know,
websites and landing pages that could come up.
And so really looking to create great videos
that are optimized towards the types of questions
(14:07):
people are asking.
It could be things like, hey. You have,
you know, you have a hotel in Rome.
Awesome. Well,
what are some things
you know, sure. You could go after things
like, you know, hotels in Rome and try
and capture that keyword, and maybe that makes
sense. But, also, what are questions people are
asking that would indicate they might be interested?
So, again, I just traveled to Rome recently.
We We traveled with two small children,
(14:28):
and we found a resource that had tons
of information about what do you do in
Rome when you have small children. Well, that's
kind of a long tail thing, but you
could create videos about that
and stand out from the competition, stand out
from just the general, hey, top 10 hotels
in Rome, things like that, and create, you
know, interesting content, helpful content. And then, hey.
(14:49):
Oh, by the way, have plugs in there
for, you know, our hotel. It's family friendly.
We're here. We'd love to see you. Things
like that. So I think when we're looking
at, you know, like, in the search engine
results page,
video is kind of an underserved area where
I encourage a lot of brands to put
attention.
And then also on the video side of
things, I would emphasize Shorts. So Shorts, specifically
on YouTube,
(15:10):
get a tremendous amount of views right now,
especially compared to long form videos, and they
are often an intro for people into long
form videos. So people maybe see maybe they
start seeing your Shorts,
find, you know, the oh, that's cool. That's
interesting to see a couple of those coming
up in their feed. And then from there,
they may subscribe to you or go, you
know, when they have time, watch a longer
form video,
(15:31):
video on your YouTube channel. And so I
highly encourage, you know,
lots of
shorts. Again, high quality, like, good stuff, you
know, stuff that people are gonna be interested
in, not just churning out content for the
sake of content,
but, you know, cool videos that will then
represent your brand well and get people watching
more of your content.
Yeah. I mean, I noticed that that Shorts
(15:52):
is a is a very good
I mean, I divide for instance, our episode,
when it comes out, it'll be in chapters,
of course, so people can choose which, well,
what they want to focus on when they're
looking at, this episode with you, John, and
and the and the topics of our conversation.
But then,
when I cut it to to shorts, also,
(16:13):
I try to look for
some some particular point in the conversation that
might appeal to to the audience who are
interested in this topic and put that into
source, which then drives them to hopefully look
at the rest of the video in in
the long form. So that's my strategy. Is
so am I on the right track with
this?
Absolutely. Yeah. And we see the same thing,
you know, with our own YouTube channel here
(16:34):
at Stub Group is that our our shorts
content gets exponentially more views, generally speaking, than
the long form.
And then that a view of your long
form is probably gonna be worth more than
a view on your short because people are
investing more time, but you can get more
exposure and get kinda more people into that
funnel, so to speak, by really emphasizing that
short content.
Yeah.
Yeah. That's that's a great tip.
(16:56):
So
another thing which I'm I'm curious about, how
do you approach balancing innovation
with compliance in digital advertising, particularly when avoiding
ad,
ad avoiding ad disapprovals
or account suspensions, which is a very sensitive
topic for a lot of people. No worries.
Yeah. And I'm glad you brought that up
because we spend a ton of time thinking
(17:16):
about
policies, policy compliance here at Step Group, and
we actually help tons and tons of advertisers
who've, you know, accidentally violated policies or or
don't believe they violated policies, but still got
flagged by Google or Meta or so forth
and helping them with those situations.
And at the end of the day, there's,
you know, there's prevention,
and then there's reaction if you have an
(17:37):
issue. So prevention is always the best approach.
And so for prevention, you wanna understand as
much as you can about policies of the
platform you're using.
There are, you know, sometimes there's there's obvious
things, obviously, that, you know, shouldn't you shouldn't
do. But there's all sorts of different nuances
where it could be like, hey. I didn't
know I was supposed to have these policy
pages on my website, or I didn't know
(17:59):
I can't have a redirect in my URL
or fill in the blank. And so,
I strongly recommend to people whatever platform they're
gonna work with, read through the policies as
much as you can.
And, of course, I'm biased here, but, ideally,
work with somebody who,
has the time and experience of an of
looking through those policies, like an agency who,
you know, does this for a living and,
(18:20):
tap into their expertise as well to make
sure you're not following a style of policies.
And then if you do have policy issues,
if you have disapproved ads or suspended accounts,
things like that,
then I always recommend
very kinda systematic
looking at what's going on and trying to
identify how to fix the problem and prove
(18:42):
to Google or to Meta that you fixed
the problem. Because what a lot of businesses
will do, they'll get a flag or a
suspended account, for example. And the first thing
they'll do is they'll go to Google. Be
like, hey. We didn't do anything wrong. Tell
us what we did wrong. We'll fix it,
and then, you know, we should be good
to go. And that's just not how Google
operates. They don't tell you what you did
wrong outside of, you know, pointing you to
(19:02):
kind of a vague policy. And And what
you do is you submit that appeal, and
Google just says, reject it. And now you've
used up your first appeal, and you're in
a worse spot than you were
previously. And and now you're like, oh, now
I've wasted a week of time and so
forth and so on. And so you really
want to take it very seriously
and say, okay. What could possibly have gone
(19:23):
wrong? Look through your account. Look through your
website. You know, try to make everything perfect
is how I put it. And then be
very, very,
specific in any appeals you submit to the
platform,
explaining what you've done to fix any potential
problems,
approaching in a very respectful manner, not not
yelling at them because that's not gonna improve
your chances of success
(19:44):
and, and approaching things in that manner. And
it Yeah. It doesn't always work. You know,
sometimes there's there's all sorts of things that
go into suspensions policy stuff, but that approach
definitely increases your chances of having a successful
outcome.
Yeah. Can you give us some examples without
mentioning names of of brands or companies or
but give some incidents
(20:04):
what that you have experienced or seen, which
are some of those,
issues that they should be aware about?
Yeah. I could I could talk all day
about this. Couple of examples. So,
we had a a business. They've been on
Shark Tank, actually, a very, you know, very
reputable, significant sized business, and their ad account
got suspended. No idea why. Google wasn't helping
(20:26):
them.
We dug into things with them, and eventually,
we figured out what was going on, which
was
they, a couple years previously,
had changed their domain,
from one thing to another thing.
And they weren't doing anything wrong in their
account. They weren't advertising the old domain. It
no longer worked. But they had paused ads
literally from years ago in their ad account.
(20:47):
And they didn't realize that Google still crawls
paused ads even though, you're not running them,
even though it may be years since you've
run them. And they caught, like, hey. There's
a redirect. This domain redirects that that domain,
which is against Google's policies, and so they
suspended the account. And it, you know, it
seems simple, but,
again, the they had no way of knowing
this. Google wouldn't tell them what the problem
(21:07):
was. They didn't say this is why. And
so, you know, had to dig and figure
that out. So that's that's an example.
Another example would be, we've seen lots of
things in the franchise space. So you might
have a franchise
that is, you know, a fully legitimate
franchisee of a franchisor,
and they have their their website. And on
their website, they have the franchise logo.
(21:28):
The domain is, you know, similar to the
franchise or it's like, you know, name of
company in Boston, Massachusetts Dot Com or whatever.
But what Google does is they see this,
and they're like, oh, you're suspended for unacceptable
business because we think that you're mimicking this
other website and pretending to be them. And
now you have to go and prove, no.
Like, we're a franchisee. You know? We're we
(21:48):
have permission to do this. We're not misleading
anybody. But
because of the way that Google systems work,
you know, things like that get flagged all
the time. So there's two examples.
We could we could spend all day talking
through it, but, yeah, I've kinda seen everything
under the sun to some extent in terms
of of Google's
suspension,
trigger figure, so to speak. Yeah. All those
are great examples, so it's very good. What
(22:10):
do you think, newer platforms like TikTok or
Pinterest will play in the future of digital
marketings for diverse industries,
including hospitality?
TikTok is definitely the, you know, the most
significant relatively
new channel that has already such a massive
impact on on kind of all all forms
of life.
(22:31):
It's also ironically the one where there's the
the most,
don't know what's gonna happen
from a policy perspective, at least in The
US. So we'll we'll see where things go
there. But, yeah, I mean, it's it's tremendously
important. People spend so much time on TikTok.
They consume so much content. And I think,
that's a very important channel,
especially for people in the hospitality space to
(22:52):
be because, you know, hospitality, it's so
experience focused. It's so visual.
It's seeing what does it look like. It's
seeing this amazing view. It's seeing this awesome
hotel room, things like that. And so I
think TikTok's a very important place to be
particularly for people in in the hospitality space.
I think Pinterest,
as, you know, another example,
I would say much less important than TikTok.
(23:14):
I think there's there's definitely,
you know,
times where it's it's relevant. I would say,
you know, it's got a much smaller user
base and a bit of a of a
different type of user base as well. So
if I was going to
if I was gonna kind
of pick, let's say, maybe a graduated list
of channels that I wanna spend my time
on as a hospitality brand in terms of
of organic content that I'm putting out there,
(23:36):
TikTok and, and I'd say YouTube are probably
gonna be the top two, honestly, that I
go for.
Maybe Instagram a very close second,
then Facebook,
then after that, maybe things like x,
Pinterest kind of further down, you know, Snapchat,
things like that. But, yeah, TikTok, YouTube, and
then really Instagram are probably the top three
that I would say,
(23:58):
should be should be a focus. But then
would that be also because of the
depending on your
your,
strategy,
on the audience you're trying to attract? So
TikTok is for some particular age groups or
generations compared to, YouTube, or is there relevance
there?
I would say, you know, in the earlier
days of TikTok, it definitely skewed much towards
(24:20):
younger people. I would say at this point,
there are tremendous numbers of every age of
person on there. So I don't think it's
I don't think it's nearly the the young
person's platform exclusively that it was previously.
I do think that there is a higher
percentage of young people on TikTok than other
platforms. So while whatever age range you're going
(24:40):
after, you're gonna find them on TikTok. Definitely,
if you're going for a younger age range
and you're only picking, you know, let's say,
one channel to really focus on, then TikTok
is often gonna be, I would say, one
to focus on.
Again, if you're willing to deal with the
instability of of what might happen with that
platform and what that's gonna look like in
the future.
Yeah. Absolutely.
Would there be, like,
(25:01):
the TikTok campaigns will be a little bit
more outrageous into your face compared to maybe
a YouTube, or is there any difference in
your opinion what you have seen?
I I would say I don't see massive
differences between the platforms. And part of that
too is because a lot of people, you
know, take the same content and put it
across multiple platforms. So you'll you'll have the
same the same short on TikTok as on
(25:23):
Instagram, as on YouTube, that type of thing,
in terms of the short side of things.
Yeah. So I would say, yeah, it's it's
a little bit agnostic as far as the
the content goes, and it's just more of,
hey. Some people are spending their time on
TikTok versus watching Instagram reels versus YouTube shorts,
etcetera.
Okay.
Given the rapid rapid evolution of algorithms on
(25:45):
platforms like LinkedIn, what strategies can content creators
adapt to maintain engagement with their audience? I
because I really I have a first hand,
first hand experience with LinkedIn as I went
live. And in the beginning, I mean, a
few years ago,
I got a lot of,
distribution and a lot of eyeballs to see
the content. And suddenly, they dropped like, and
(26:08):
I thought, well, what's wrong with my content,
or what did I do wrong? So, have
you noticed the the change yourself with the
and maybe with your clients?
Yes. There's absolutely that impact of, hey. Something
something's working well. And then, like you said,
okay.
Things drop off the cliff, and we haven't
done anything different. Why? And so, yeah, the
algorithms, they they give and take away, so
(26:29):
to speak.
My recommendation to content creators is always gonna
be, you know, relatively foundational
of put most of your focus
on the quality of the content you're creating,
less on the algorithm. Because at the end
of the day, the algorithm's goal is to
share content with people that they find interesting
and relevant and spend time with.
(26:50):
And so I see a lot of businesses,
they spend all their time just chasing the
algorithm.
And sometimes, the they get short term wins
from that because it is possible at times
to gain the algorithm and to figure out,
oh, you know what? It likes this kind
of very unique content at this time of
day or whatever.
But generally speaking,
those types of things don't last for the
(27:11):
long term because the algorithm you know, everybody's
looking for that gaming. They're saying, okay. It's
being gamed in this way. Let's, you know,
put a fix in, that type of thing.
It evolves.
And so,
you know, it's it's a frustrating answer to
somebody who,
was seeing the benefits maybe of the algorithm
liking them and then seeing things drop off
the cliff. But from my perspective, the best
(27:33):
long term,
focus is really focused on that content,
making it as good as possible, making it
relevant to people,
and also diversifying
across platforms
because
there will always be that time where this
platform changes. It could be temporary. It could
be permanent.
But if you're exclusively
getting all of your traffic, all of your
(27:53):
views, business from that one platform,
then you are incredibly dependent upon that, and
your business can literally go under if things
change. Whereas if you are just creating great
content, diversifying across multiple multiple channels and ways
people can find you. You're gonna build more
stability into your business model.
Yeah. I mean, that's a great tip.
That was just for thinking of it, if
(28:13):
TikTok were to disappear tomorrow,
what platforms or strategy would you recommend business
to pivot to and why?
So I think Google and Meta are both
very much rooting for TikTok to, to go
down because I think they will see a
tremendous,
increase in, you know, time people spent on
YouTube and on Instagram and Facebook if people
(28:36):
leave TikTok.
I I personally like, TikTok is a very
addictive app, but I think that
I don't think people are necessarily as I
don't think it's as sticky as some people
think. I think people just, yep, they love
that short form content, but they can get
that in multiple places. Right now, TikTok is
just where they are, where they find it.
(28:57):
But if TikTok goes away, they'll find on
YouTube, they'll find on Instagram, and so forth.
And so I think those channels are what
will significantly
win
if TikTok,
goes away.
Yeah. Very good. I mean, you have a
great deal of experience. I can hear hear
in your in your answers and so on.
What are some emergent trends in digital advertising
that you believe that will have the most
(29:17):
significant impact?
Not talking about the years and years, but
just looking ahead, how you see the the
trends and so on?
The buzzword definitely is AI these days. And
it's it's a buzzword for a reason. But,
you know, most specifically
looking at things like chat GPT,
Perplexity,
Gemini,
seeing some changes
(29:38):
in just the way people conduct searches and
more people
starting their search,
and searching differently
by going to one of those platforms as
opposed to just going to Google and starting
their search there. And we're we're seeing we're,
you know, we're not in a place where
Google's, you know, going away anytime in the
near future, in my opinion, but we are
(29:58):
at a place where Google has more of
a challenge to their dominance of the search
market than any time in a very long
time.
And I think that just the way that
people search is what's gonna change. So, again,
it's not that, oh, they're going to a
different search engine. It's that
we're we're going more towards this kind of
natural language conversation. Hey. Go find me. You
(30:20):
know, here's the criteria.
Go find me the five best hotels in
this location
that are family friendly, that are cheaper than
x amount per night, things like that. Things
that you just can't search Google in that
way.
You might, you know, try and find a
website that's got the kind of information and
then go to there. Whereas now you might
go to perplexity or go to chat GPT
(30:40):
and literally
define the criteria of that search and kind
of engage back and forth with it. So
I think that is gonna be probably the
the single biggest change
in digital advertising, digital marketing, the search world,
just how people find information in the next
you know, right now and and in the
next couple of years is gonna be,
(31:01):
things like like Chaggy Pity and perplexity and
so forth. Yeah. And, yeah, yeah, I think
it has to explore continuously,
not just be,
comfortable with what you're doing at the moment,
but try and and don't worry about,
making a failing there, but then you try
something else. I mean, that's how I think,
I I see how the world works that
that you just have tried a number of
things. And and it might be the craziest
(31:23):
idea who some people say that you don't
try that, but you try it, and who
knows? It might work, in fact.
Absolutely.
Yeah. Well, I mean, you you you mentioned
earlier that you're you're you're traveling on holidays
with your family and so on. And, obviously,
we are a sort of,
a hospitality
channel.
(31:44):
So, and, as many of our listeners know,
we love technology
here at the social hotelier. The only way
to keep up with the new demands of
travelers is to keep up with the latest
trends and so on from whether it's, well,
it's not so new anymore, but myself check-in,
digital concierges,
and keyless entries and so on. So I'm
(32:04):
just curious to get your view
on automation in hotels because we see that
this has
escalated particularly.
And you could see that from,
from the the time of the of the
pandemic.
Do you think this is a way of
the future or with less human contact?
So is automation hotels good or not? Or
how you see the from the customer point
(32:24):
of view?
I personally
like automation and the efficiencies that come with
it. Ironically so I mentioned I was traveling
to Rome recently. They just put a, a
law in place recently where Airbnb hosts can't
offer, you know,
self check-in where they have to meet you
physically and do things. So,
(32:45):
legislatively, there is definitely some areas where there,
there's pushback on automation
and self check-in and whatnot. But, you know,
personally, I I like it. I think it's
one of those things where you're you're you're
always gonna have, at least for a while,
you're gonna have different buckets or segments of
population. You're gonna have people like me and
I think probably it's gonna skew more towards
(33:05):
young people. Young people who just grew up
in a more technologically,
you know, the first world
where we're more used to,
you know, self check-in, self ordering, things like
that, and we like the efficiency that comes
with that. Whereas there's also gonna be people
who just like that that human touch and
aspect,
And that's something that they may be more
(33:25):
used to as well. So
I think probably generationally,
as, you know, current
youth grow up and become more of the
people who are spending the money on the
hotel, spending the money on the stays,
There's gonna be more and more push and
demand for
automation, self check-in, things like that.
I think we're still at a place, you
know, right now where there are plenty of
(33:47):
people who like that human touch where it's
maybe not a % required.
And I'm talking a little bit certainly, I'm
talking outside of the scope of my expertise
because I'm I'm not, in the operation side
of the hotel industry, so
extrapolating some opinions here. But I think as,
again, as people as as the current youth
get older and, become more of the the
money spenders, it makes sense to really lean
(34:08):
into that automation side of things. Yeah. I
mean, from my experience, I I I also
enjoy the fact that I can,
I'm arriving to to let's see. I would
fly into Rome. It's a late night.
I love the idea that you can I
can just I have
everything in my hand that I can get
up to the room right away? And then
(34:29):
when I actually need some help, maybe the
next day and so on, I want to
ask a question, then I can, of course,
connect with with a person in in,
concierge or or one of the,
service managers and so on. But, I I
really also enjoy the fact that that I
can,
have a quick access to the room. I
I'm tired. I'm not interested in having a
long chat with anyone. I just want to
(34:50):
get get some rest. The the key factor
is that that, when you have a,
when you get to the room and and
some something is not right there and how
to get it fixed fixed quickly. And I
found, of course, that if you had someone
in certain hotels, you have people to,
escort to your room, then you can,
normally, in these hotels, then they will explain
(35:11):
to you the features. And, also, they will
also notice themselves at all. K. We are
missing this. We are missing that. So they'll
fix it right away. But when you go
to the room and you realize that you
had already took your taken a shower and
you're ready to go to bed and you
realize something was missing, then
do you really want to make that call
again and and, get it fixed? So there
are there are different pros and cons on
(35:31):
this, but, generally, also, I mean, I I'm
in favor of, particularly when I'm, arriving that
I can have a just I can get
to the room and then,
not going into a long conversation until I'm
ready to have that conversation myself.
Yes. That's that's very much, where I'm at
as well. That that at the end of
that long day of travel, I just wanna
(35:52):
I just wanna get there and rest. No.
Not looking for that conversation.
Sure.
So I just have two more questions for
for you before we wrap up and and,
your tips and tricks and, advice has been
very helpful. One question that I like to
ask all my guests. Besides what we have
talked about,
what other trends do you see happening in
hospitality
that hoteliers should take note of?
(36:14):
Understanding to you when you travel, you travel
more on on on on holiday and so
on, but just sort of any thoughts that
you have on this or what you have
observed.
Yeah. I would say
one thing I'd like to see more of
is the ability for, you know, shorter term
stays at hotels and locations. And there's certainly,
(36:35):
you know, some some business models where they're
trying to to say, hey. You don't have
to book a whole night or two nights.
You know? Hey. You you fly in. You
are, you know, at the airport for a
while. You just need to freshen up before
continuing on, things like that. I was looking
for something like that recently on our trip
in Rome, and there's just were very few
options for kind of a a short stay
that didn't require, you know, an overnight that
(36:57):
wasn't necessary. So I'd love to see more
of that. I I don't know if there's
if that's gonna happen or not. I don't
know how kind of the all all the
economics of that work,
but I'd I'd love to see that. And
I would say, you know, the other probably
biggest thing that comes to mind for me
is,
again, how hotels are going to kind of
work and integrate with
(37:18):
things like ChatGPT and Perplexity
who are becoming the new search engine for
stays
and trying to make sure that, hey. If
I'm if I'm a hotel, I'm a hotel
chain exec, for example.
I wanna make sure that when someone searches
Chat GPT, for example, for my area, that
I'm I'm coming up as as an option.
If you're like, hey. What are the best
(37:39):
hotels here? I I wanna be on that
list. Now how exactly you do that,
is is the million dollar question right now.
And I can't tell exactly how to do
it because I don't know. But a lot
of it, of course, goes down to the
same principles as SEO historically, which is making
sure you've got great content, information online. It's
structured in a way that's easy to see
and observe.
You have, you know, the credibility of people
(37:59):
linking to you that shows that you're not
just a fly by night operation,
having great reviews that you're collecting and displaying
so that whoever is looking at you, whether
that be the robots or that be real
people, can see that you're a great place
and you have a great reputation.
And focusing on those foundation
those foundational elements, I would say, is is
(38:20):
really key for, you know, being a part
of of whatever the algorithm is, whether that
be SEO historically, whether that be the new
AI tools like ChatGPT
and and so forth.
Yeah.
I have quite a few of, my viewers
are are hotel school students.
And, I was at I was attending just
last week,
(38:41):
event in in in in Creation, Zagreb.
And, it's called best stay, which, it which
is done they do it once a year.
And at the end of this event, we
had, some hotel school student. They made a
five minute pitch for
some particular,
topic. And I was kind of thrilled to
see a 17 year old
(39:02):
giving
a extremely professional pitch about this,
with the topic, whether how to be a
great front office manager or how to set
up your career and etcetera. And I was
thinking now since we had this discussion,
we have maybe some of the the viewers
here who's gonna watch this episode.
(39:22):
So some say they're thinking, well, I want
to get into this,
this part of the business. What, John, what
tips would you give them? How should they
get started to,
to get, say, into this advertising
agency business, and, what are the steps they
maybe should take to to get started?
That's a great question. I would say we're
(39:44):
in we're in such a fast moving industry
that
getting in and actually doing the work is
is key. If you go to if you're
gonna go to school for digital advertising,
it you know, a four year degree, it
was like, well, hey, you can get to
the end of it, and everything is completely
different than where it was when you started
four years ago. Yeah. So that doesn't really
work. And, there's so many value in courses,
(40:04):
but even there, things change so often that
I think, you know, courses can be super
helpful if they're recent and and well done.
But at the end of the day, I
would encourage just, you know, find an agency,
find an advertiser,
find someone that you can actually start doing
this with. And you're probably not gonna make
a lot of money initially.
Look at it for experience. You know? Are
(40:25):
there small businesses that you can say, hey.
I have time, and I'm gonna trade that
for you. You don't have time. I'm gonna
help you. I'm gonna figure things out. I'm
gonna figure out what is it like to
post things on a Facebook. What is it
like to run a Google ad? Things like
that. And just go out and and do
it. And
it won't you'd it won't always work. You
will fail. But, hey, that's true of everybody
(40:45):
in the industry. No matter, you know, how
expert you go, it's about
failing, learning from that, figuring out what worked,
what didn't work, iterating up iterating upon that,
and, just getting that real world experience is,
I think, the best the best place that
you can go if you wanna get into
this industry.
Yeah. That was a great tip. Now people
who want to,
were interested to find out more about
(41:07):
John Horn or Stub Group, how can they
reach you and,
probably have maybe a hotel student in Zagreb
that say, oh, I'd like to have a
have a
a short conversation or
a exchange of
messages with John Horn? How can they reach
you?
Yeah. So a couple places. You know, our
website, stubgroup.com,
has a lot of information about us and
(41:28):
the way people can reach out. You can
find me on LinkedIn just by searching my
name. And then last thing I would say
is our YouTube channel. We put out a
lot of content on there about a variety
of things, but very much in the digital
marketing space, a lot of free content. So
search stud group on there and subscribe to
that, and you'll get lots of lots of
free information coming your way.
Well, I'm a subscriber myself, so I'm I'm
(41:50):
an avid avid viewer of your YouTube channel.
So great tips. So, John, thank you very
much for
taking the time today and and and today's
episode, and thanks for all your fantastic insight.
Oh, Oh, thanks so much for having me
on. I really enjoyed
it. Thank you for tuning into the Social
Hotelier. If you enjoyed this episode,
please take a moment to leave us a
(42:10):
review, give a thumbs up, and don't forget
to hit that subscribe button to stay updated.
And if you're listening to this episode as
a podcast,
I'd love to see that you
give us a review on, let's say, Apple
Play, and then that will mean the world
to me. All this, what you do, it'll
help me to grow the show, and I
I will able to bring more guests to
the show.
(42:31):
So we have an incredible lineup of guests
coming your way, so stay tuned for more
thought provoking conversations.
Until next time, take care and keep exploring.
Think that's really important because a lot of
businesses, they look at advertising as some kind
of a magic bullet that's going to fix
all of their problems, and that's not how
advertising works. Advertising is really fuel on the
the fire of what you're doing. And so
if you have, you know, a bad business
model or an offer that's not compelling to
people and so forth, advertisers are not gonna
(00:20):
fix that. This is gonna get you more,
you know, more more bad. And so it's
really important to have your other things working
well and then look at advertising as, okay.
Now I'm gonna get more people into my
funnel, more people exposed to who I am,
and to try and and scale that way.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Social Hotelier
podcast with me, Sam Erik Ruttman.
(00:42):
Are you wasting thousands on digital ads without
even realizing it?
Most businesses are without a clear strategy.
In this episode, we uncover how to stop
burning your budget and start making your ads
work for you.
Join us for enlightening conversation with John Horn,
CEO of Stub Group, a leading digital advertising
(01:04):
agents agency.
In this episode, we will explore the cutting
edge strategies shaping Google Ads,
Meta, and beyond, and uncover how businesses, big
or small, can thrive in an AI driven
landscape.
Whether you are curious about avoiding common pitfalls,
tracking campaign success, or exploring the future of
(01:25):
platforms like TikTok and Pinterest,
this episode promises actionable insights and expert advice.
So don't miss the chance to stay ahead
of the curve.
So welcome, John, and thanks for joining us
today. Thank you so much for having me.
Well,
maybe we can get started is that,
first, I think for our audience to get
(01:46):
some background, can you share about your professional
experience?
Absolutely. So I've been really focused on the
digital advertising
space for
over the last decade,
specifically through my company, StuG Group, like you
mentioned, the CEO of, and
get to work with all sorts of different
types of businesses across a pretty wide, wide
(02:08):
spectrum of business models and industries
and helping them navigate that landscape of digital
advertising
platforms like the ones you mentioned and ultimately
figuring out how do we
find new customers, connect with them, bring them
on board in a cost effective way to
help businesses,
scale and, make more money online.
Very good. Well, to be successful, you must
(02:31):
have, on a personal level, some superpowers. Or
what what is your superpower?
I don't know if I'll be as so
bold to say I have a superpower, but
I would say I do, you know, genuinely
care about
the clients we work with, their success, the
quality of work that we that we put
into things. And I think that's incredibly important,
especially in the agency world that I'm a
(02:53):
part of is just, you know, not looking
at each client as, hey. Just another another
paycheck or, you know, a squeaky willy go
to put grease on, that type of thing,
but truly caring and saying, hey. I wanna
partner with them and figure out how we're
gonna make them successful.
And I think that's a very important thing
and something I I look for in all
the team members that we bring on board
to help our clients.
(03:14):
Yeah. So you really believe in a long
term relationship and developing trust and long term
working long term with your clients to set
them up for success.
Exactly.
Yeah. That's cool.
What are some
common pitfalls
or mistakes businesses make when managing
Google Ads campaigns? And and, can you maybe
give some examples on how can they avoid
(03:35):
them?
There are many. I would say one of
the most common ones I see is, especially
when advertisers
are
getting into Google Ads or deciding to test
it, and that is just
not thinking through what is success going to
look like and really having a strategy in
place when they go into it. A lot
of businesses take more of the approach of,
(03:56):
hey. Let's throw a bunch of stuff at
the wall and see what sticks. Yeah. And,
you know, to a certain extent, sometimes you
you need to do that. But when you
go into any platform, whether it be Google
Ads or anything else,
you need to
optimize your chances for success. Give yourself the
best leg up, so to speak. And so,
you know, you wanna think through things like,
okay. Well,
(04:16):
what is, again, what does success look like?
What am I trying to drive from these
campaigns? What action,
do I want people to take? Is it
calling me through my website? Is it filling
out a form on my own website? Is
it, you know, showing up physically at my
location? Things like that. And then you gotta
think through, okay, how am I going to
track that and track as well as I
can
which of those actions are coming from the
(04:37):
campaigns I'm running so I can understand, is
this working? Is it not working? And which
parts of it are working? So I can
I can scale that, double down on that,
and then cut the things that just aren't
aren't working and driving the results I want
to drive?
Yeah. I mean, you must have these conversations
with the with the with your initially with
a client of
about the goals and so on. And, when
(04:59):
you talk about pitfalls,
can you just share something that what is
the worst case scenario if they have such
a high expectations that, that they will start
to make, that is immediately successful and then
that and there may be a lack of
patience because
of the not having that experience. So what
are the things that you're telling them to
be cautious about?
Yeah. So a couple of specific things I
(05:20):
would say. First of all, you mentioned patience.
I think that's really important because a lot
of businesses,
they look at advertising as some kind of
a magic bullet that's going to fix all
of their problems.
And that's not how advertising works. Advertising is
really fuel on the fire of what you're
doing. And so if you have, you know,
a bad business model or an offer that's
(05:41):
not compelling to people or so forth, advertising
is not gonna fix that. This is gonna
get you more, you know, more more bad.
And so it's really important to have your
other things working well and then look at
advertising as, okay. Now I'm gonna get more
people into my funnel into my funnel, more
people exposed to who I am and to
try and and scale that way. So I
think that's that's, you know, looking at at
(06:03):
advertising at that magic bullet is a big,
a big mistake.
Yeah. I would also say,
another big mistake is
coming into things and
trusting
let's talk about Google specifically. This is true
of Meta as well, but but Google in
particular,
Trusting all of the best practices of the
platform. So, you know, that you can go
(06:26):
and create your own DIY campaigns with Google
Ads, for example,
and Google will walk you through. Like, hey.
Here's you know, do this, have this setting
turned on, etcetera.
But at the end of the day, a
lot of the the kind of default settings
and things that Google's gonna push you towards
are not necessarily
in your best interest as an advertiser.
And so a lot of people will just
do everything Google says, run campaigns. The campaigns
(06:48):
will bomb. They won't get good results, and
they'll say, oh, Google Ads doesn't work for
my business. But the reality is they haven't,
you know, run a good campaign to know
whether or not it could work for their
business. And, and so I see that happen
very often as well. Yeah. So do you
go through, like, a checklist with them,
in in about those settings and so on
(07:08):
so that you help them to avoid those
kind of pitfalls that,
somebody like,
if I go and get into advertising or
getting my ad,
advertising campaign that I I will not fall
fall into those kind of,
beginner's mistakes, if you will.
Yeah. We basically do all that work for
them. So we, you know, we're responsible for
(07:30):
the ad account, and we've got all those
internal things where it's like, okay. You know,
watch out for this. Watch out for that.
And then a lot of it's nuanced to
their business. So, you know, sometimes what is
a best practice and is a good setting
for this business is not a good setting
for that business. And that's where that human
element needs to come in and and kind
of analyze and say, okay.
For your business, for your specific goals, this
(07:52):
is the right, you know, set of settings
to start with and then go from there.
Yeah. Yeah. And,
people talk about them. And I I I
follow,
of course, the social media,
campaigns, and also I'm looking quite a bit
on, on Instagram, in fact. And I noticed
how,
hotels and restaurants
(08:13):
are more and more focusing
or getting their
having campaigns on on those rather than spending
on their traditional advertising.
But in your in your opinion, maybe some
tips you have, how can hotels and restaurants
leverage
the the platforms like Instagram or maybe Meta
Ads to create meaningful
customer engagement?
(08:34):
Yeah. Instagram,
Meta, you know, platforms like that can be
fantastic place, fantastic places to get that customer
engagement.
And I would encourage very much focusing on
on that word engagement. So how can we
get people actually engaging
with not just engaging with our content, but
creating content for us. So there's this idea
(08:54):
of of UGC or user generated content.
And there's lots of different creative ways that
brands can
encourage people to, you know, take photos, share
experiences about their experience with the brand. So
here's here's a good example.
I would say I've actually missed opportunity, but
something that could have been really good. So
I was traveling recently with my wife in
(09:15):
Rome in Italy, and we're just walking down
the street, came up to this sign.
It was it had a a picture of,
you know, well, two people kissing, and it
had something in Italian. So pull up Google
Translate. I don't know Italian, but okay. What
is this? Translated to English. And, basically, it's
it's something like, you know, kissing is mandatory
in this zone, something like that. That's kind
of a cute cute little thing. I was
like, oh, cool. And there's an Instagram handle
(09:36):
on there and what I thought it would
be was I thought it was gonna you
know be a location basically hey take a
picture of of you kissing and put it
on here and you'd have this you know
kind of really cool you know hashtag of
people at this location you know sharing an
intimate moment. It wasn't actually that. It was
just taking us to a clothing brand, which
was, you know, less exciting. But that could
have been a great experience. You know, if
(09:57):
you're setting something like that at your hotel
or your resort where you're encouraging people with
a hashtag
to capture that moment, share it, and then
all their friends and acquaintances on the social
platforms see that type of thing, and you're
getting all sorts of free and fantastic brand
exposure through things like that. Yeah. That's a
great tip. Absolutely. I think the I mean,
(10:17):
there are hotels, of course, and restaurants who
are, particularly hotels, who are,
they they are, trying to set up a
sort of a
Instagrammable
location
of the hotel.
Some of the hotels or resorts have a
natural setting, so they really don't need to
do anything about it. But, actually, then, on
the other side, you have the some indoor
space or whether it's off the lobby or
(10:39):
in in a kind of quiet corner where
they have,
there's a famous artist who has created some
kind of artwork. And
and this is a kind of a background
for
successful
selfless, if you will. So there are many
ways hotels can can leverage this opportunity and
also creating some call to action to get
a little bit of a conversation going there.
(10:59):
Isn't it?
Absolutely. Yep. You know, having,
a mural there, like you said, which is
a great spot and having, you know, a
hashtag, having just kinda clearly delineated areas where,
hey. Yep. Share this.
As well as thinking through, you know, what's
something that you can do
to surprise in a very good way the
guest and create that moment of excitement where
(11:21):
they're like, you'll never believe what just happened
to me. They did this, and they just
want to share that with their friends. And,
you know, how do you share with friends
these days? Social media. So looking to to
create those moments of wonder and those
locations
that inspire people to
share what they're doing, share the experience they're
having, which then, by default, also shares your
(11:42):
your brand in a very positive light with
the world?
Yeah. Yeah.
I'm not, putting a plug here for a
for a friend of mine who's wrote a
book, but he wrote a book called Audacious.
So he is he's talking about all moment
of awe
and what you can, which is,
exactly what you are talking about. But, and
while I'm reading through the book as I
do at the moment, there is so many
(12:03):
examples that you you can be very bold
and do things so differently that,
it creates
a surprise moment, but, by the awe,
that you actually,
feel compelled to,
share it with
your community and your friends. So yeah.
With
(12:24):
the one of the things which I'm struggling
with is the search
SEO tactics. And I really,
banging my head because I'm always looking for
way how can
how can, either for my particular YouTube channel
and or when I do any postings, who
how I can get, drive more,
eyeballs on on my content.
(12:44):
But some of my question really is, with
the decline of traditional
SEO tactics,
how can business adapt their strategies to remain
visible in search rankings?
Yeah. SEO is is very different than it
used to be. You know, we're a long
way from those 10 blue links that used
to be the focus of optimization.
And now you've got you know, sure. You
(13:04):
still have the blue links, but you've got
ads. You have AI overviews. You have videos
and so forth.
And so one of the things that I
think it's important for businesses, for websites to
focus on is
what are what are the areas where there's
a bit less competition,
where you're you can get kind of more
bang for the buck in terms of the
(13:25):
investment of time and energy that you put
into things.
You mentioned YouTube, and I think that's an
area for a lot of websites
where that's something they can capitalize on. You
know, video results are a top thing that
comes up when you search on Google. They're
a big part of the the SERP now,
the search engine results page. And then obviously,
YouTube itself also is, as Google likes to
say, that second largest search engine, a place
(13:45):
where a lot of people actually go to
start searches as well.
And I would say for the majority of
industries,
there's there's gonna be just less content that
can come up on YouTube
than, you know, just, you know,
websites and landing pages that could come up.
And so really looking to create great videos
that are optimized towards the types of questions
(14:07):
people are asking.
It could be things like, hey. You have,
you know, you have a hotel in Rome.
Awesome. Well,
what are some things
you know, sure. You could go after things
like, you know, hotels in Rome and try
and capture that keyword, and maybe that makes
sense. But, also, what are questions people are
asking that would indicate they might be interested?
So, again, I just traveled to Rome recently.
We We traveled with two small children,
(14:28):
and we found a resource that had tons
of information about what do you do in
Rome when you have small children. Well, that's
kind of a long tail thing, but you
could create videos about that
and stand out from the competition, stand out
from just the general, hey, top 10 hotels
in Rome, things like that, and create, you
know, interesting content, helpful content. And then, hey.
(14:49):
Oh, by the way, have plugs in there
for, you know, our hotel. It's family friendly.
We're here. We'd love to see you. Things
like that. So I think when we're looking
at, you know, like, in the search engine
results page,
video is kind of an underserved area where
I encourage a lot of brands to put
attention.
And then also on the video side of
things, I would emphasize Shorts. So Shorts, specifically
on YouTube,
(15:10):
get a tremendous amount of views right now,
especially compared to long form videos, and they
are often an intro for people into long
form videos. So people maybe see maybe they
start seeing your Shorts,
find, you know, the oh, that's cool. That's
interesting to see a couple of those coming
up in their feed. And then from there,
they may subscribe to you or go, you
know, when they have time, watch a longer
form video,
(15:31):
video on your YouTube channel. And so I
highly encourage, you know,
lots of
shorts. Again, high quality, like, good stuff, you
know, stuff that people are gonna be interested
in, not just churning out content for the
sake of content,
but, you know, cool videos that will then
represent your brand well and get people watching
more of your content.
Yeah. I mean, I noticed that that Shorts
(15:52):
is a is a very good
I mean, I divide for instance, our episode,
when it comes out, it'll be in chapters,
of course, so people can choose which, well,
what they want to focus on when they're
looking at, this episode with you, John, and
and the and the topics of our conversation.
But then,
when I cut it to to shorts, also,
(16:13):
I try to look for
some some particular point in the conversation that
might appeal to to the audience who are
interested in this topic and put that into
source, which then drives them to hopefully look
at the rest of the video in in
the long form. So that's my strategy. Is
so am I on the right track with
this?
Absolutely. Yeah. And we see the same thing,
you know, with our own YouTube channel here
(16:34):
at Stub Group is that our our shorts
content gets exponentially more views, generally speaking, than
the long form.
And then that a view of your long
form is probably gonna be worth more than
a view on your short because people are
investing more time, but you can get more
exposure and get kinda more people into that
funnel, so to speak, by really emphasizing that
short content.
Yeah.
Yeah. That's that's a great tip.
(16:56):
So
another thing which I'm I'm curious about, how
do you approach balancing innovation
with compliance in digital advertising, particularly when avoiding
ad,
ad avoiding ad disapprovals
or account suspensions, which is a very sensitive
topic for a lot of people. No worries.
Yeah. And I'm glad you brought that up
because we spend a ton of time thinking
(17:16):
about
policies, policy compliance here at Step Group, and
we actually help tons and tons of advertisers
who've, you know, accidentally violated policies or or
don't believe they violated policies, but still got
flagged by Google or Meta or so forth
and helping them with those situations.
And at the end of the day, there's,
you know, there's prevention,
and then there's reaction if you have an
(17:37):
issue. So prevention is always the best approach.
And so for prevention, you wanna understand as
much as you can about policies of the
platform you're using.
There are, you know, sometimes there's there's obvious
things, obviously, that, you know, shouldn't you shouldn't
do. But there's all sorts of different nuances
where it could be like, hey. I didn't
know I was supposed to have these policy
pages on my website, or I didn't know
(17:59):
I can't have a redirect in my URL
or fill in the blank. And so,
I strongly recommend to people whatever platform they're
gonna work with, read through the policies as
much as you can.
And, of course, I'm biased here, but, ideally,
work with somebody who,
has the time and experience of an of
looking through those policies, like an agency who,
you know, does this for a living and,
(18:20):
tap into their expertise as well to make
sure you're not following a style of policies.
And then if you do have policy issues,
if you have disapproved ads or suspended accounts,
things like that,
then I always recommend
very kinda systematic
looking at what's going on and trying to
identify how to fix the problem and prove
(18:42):
to Google or to Meta that you fixed
the problem. Because what a lot of businesses
will do, they'll get a flag or a
suspended account, for example. And the first thing
they'll do is they'll go to Google. Be
like, hey. We didn't do anything wrong. Tell
us what we did wrong. We'll fix it,
and then, you know, we should be good
to go. And that's just not how Google
operates. They don't tell you what you did
wrong outside of, you know, pointing you to
(19:02):
kind of a vague policy. And And what
you do is you submit that appeal, and
Google just says, reject it. And now you've
used up your first appeal, and you're in
a worse spot than you were
previously. And and now you're like, oh, now
I've wasted a week of time and so
forth and so on. And so you really
want to take it very seriously
and say, okay. What could possibly have gone
(19:23):
wrong? Look through your account. Look through your
website. You know, try to make everything perfect
is how I put it. And then be
very, very,
specific in any appeals you submit to the
platform,
explaining what you've done to fix any potential
problems,
approaching in a very respectful manner, not not
yelling at them because that's not gonna improve
your chances of success
(19:44):
and, and approaching things in that manner. And
it Yeah. It doesn't always work. You know,
sometimes there's there's all sorts of things that
go into suspensions policy stuff, but that approach
definitely increases your chances of having a successful
outcome.
Yeah. Can you give us some examples without
mentioning names of of brands or companies or
but give some incidents
(20:04):
what that you have experienced or seen, which
are some of those,
issues that they should be aware about?
Yeah. I could I could talk all day
about this. Couple of examples. So,
we had a a business. They've been on
Shark Tank, actually, a very, you know, very
reputable, significant sized business, and their ad account
got suspended. No idea why. Google wasn't helping
(20:26):
them.
We dug into things with them, and eventually,
we figured out what was going on, which
was
they, a couple years previously,
had changed their domain,
from one thing to another thing.
And they weren't doing anything wrong in their
account. They weren't advertising the old domain. It
no longer worked. But they had paused ads
literally from years ago in their ad account.
(20:47):
And they didn't realize that Google still crawls
paused ads even though, you're not running them,
even though it may be years since you've
run them. And they caught, like, hey. There's
a redirect. This domain redirects that that domain,
which is against Google's policies, and so they
suspended the account. And it, you know, it
seems simple, but,
again, the they had no way of knowing
this. Google wouldn't tell them what the problem
(21:07):
was. They didn't say this is why. And
so, you know, had to dig and figure
that out. So that's that's an example.
Another example would be, we've seen lots of
things in the franchise space. So you might
have a franchise
that is, you know, a fully legitimate
franchisee of a franchisor,
and they have their their website. And on
their website, they have the franchise logo.
(21:28):
The domain is, you know, similar to the
franchise or it's like, you know, name of
company in Boston, Massachusetts Dot Com or whatever.
But what Google does is they see this,
and they're like, oh, you're suspended for unacceptable
business because we think that you're mimicking this
other website and pretending to be them. And
now you have to go and prove, no.
Like, we're a franchisee. You know? We're we
(21:48):
have permission to do this. We're not misleading
anybody. But
because of the way that Google systems work,
you know, things like that get flagged all
the time. So there's two examples.
We could we could spend all day talking
through it, but, yeah, I've kinda seen everything
under the sun to some extent in terms
of of Google's
suspension,
trigger figure, so to speak. Yeah. All those
are great examples, so it's very good. What
(22:10):
do you think, newer platforms like TikTok or
Pinterest will play in the future of digital
marketings for diverse industries,
including hospitality?
TikTok is definitely the, you know, the most
significant relatively
new channel that has already such a massive
impact on on kind of all all forms
of life.
(22:31):
It's also ironically the one where there's the
the most,
don't know what's gonna happen
from a policy perspective, at least in The
US. So we'll we'll see where things go
there. But, yeah, I mean, it's it's tremendously
important. People spend so much time on TikTok.
They consume so much content. And I think,
that's a very important channel,
especially for people in the hospitality space to
(22:52):
be because, you know, hospitality, it's so
experience focused. It's so visual.
It's seeing what does it look like. It's
seeing this amazing view. It's seeing this awesome
hotel room, things like that. And so I
think TikTok's a very important place to be
particularly for people in in the hospitality space.
I think Pinterest,
as, you know, another example,
I would say much less important than TikTok.
(23:14):
I think there's there's definitely,
you know,
times where it's it's relevant. I would say,
you know, it's got a much smaller user
base and a bit of a of a
different type of user base as well. So
if I was going to
if I was gonna kind
of pick, let's say, maybe a graduated list
of channels that I wanna spend my time
on as a hospitality brand in terms of
of organic content that I'm putting out there,
(23:36):
TikTok and, and I'd say YouTube are probably
gonna be the top two, honestly, that I
go for.
Maybe Instagram a very close second,
then Facebook,
then after that, maybe things like x,
Pinterest kind of further down, you know, Snapchat,
things like that. But, yeah, TikTok, YouTube, and
then really Instagram are probably the top three
that I would say,
(23:58):
should be should be a focus. But then
would that be also because of the
depending on your
your,
strategy,
on the audience you're trying to attract? So
TikTok is for some particular age groups or
generations compared to, YouTube, or is there relevance
there?
I would say, you know, in the earlier
days of TikTok, it definitely skewed much towards
(24:20):
younger people. I would say at this point,
there are tremendous numbers of every age of
person on there. So I don't think it's
I don't think it's nearly the the young
person's platform exclusively that it was previously.
I do think that there is a higher
percentage of young people on TikTok than other
platforms. So while whatever age range you're going
(24:40):
after, you're gonna find them on TikTok. Definitely,
if you're going for a younger age range
and you're only picking, you know, let's say,
one channel to really focus on, then TikTok
is often gonna be, I would say, one
to focus on.
Again, if you're willing to deal with the
instability of of what might happen with that
platform and what that's gonna look like in
the future.
Yeah. Absolutely.
Would there be, like,
(25:01):
the TikTok campaigns will be a little bit
more outrageous into your face compared to maybe
a YouTube, or is there any difference in
your opinion what you have seen?
I I would say I don't see massive
differences between the platforms. And part of that
too is because a lot of people, you
know, take the same content and put it
across multiple platforms. So you'll you'll have the
same the same short on TikTok as on
(25:23):
Instagram, as on YouTube, that type of thing,
in terms of the short side of things.
Yeah. So I would say, yeah, it's it's
a little bit agnostic as far as the
the content goes, and it's just more of,
hey. Some people are spending their time on
TikTok versus watching Instagram reels versus YouTube shorts,
etcetera.
Okay.
Given the rapid rapid evolution of algorithms on
(25:45):
platforms like LinkedIn, what strategies can content creators
adapt to maintain engagement with their audience? I
because I really I have a first hand,
first hand experience with LinkedIn as I went
live. And in the beginning, I mean, a
few years ago,
I got a lot of,
distribution and a lot of eyeballs to see
the content. And suddenly, they dropped like, and
(26:08):
I thought, well, what's wrong with my content,
or what did I do wrong? So, have
you noticed the the change yourself with the
and maybe with your clients?
Yes. There's absolutely that impact of, hey. Something
something's working well. And then, like you said,
okay.
Things drop off the cliff, and we haven't
done anything different. Why? And so, yeah, the
algorithms, they they give and take away, so
(26:29):
to speak.
My recommendation to content creators is always gonna
be, you know, relatively foundational
of put most of your focus
on the quality of the content you're creating,
less on the algorithm. Because at the end
of the day, the algorithm's goal is to
share content with people that they find interesting
and relevant and spend time with.
(26:50):
And so I see a lot of businesses,
they spend all their time just chasing the
algorithm.
And sometimes, the they get short term wins
from that because it is possible at times
to gain the algorithm and to figure out,
oh, you know what? It likes this kind
of very unique content at this time of
day or whatever.
But generally speaking,
those types of things don't last for the
(27:11):
long term because the algorithm you know, everybody's
looking for that gaming. They're saying, okay. It's
being gamed in this way. Let's, you know,
put a fix in, that type of thing.
It evolves.
And so,
you know, it's it's a frustrating answer to
somebody who,
was seeing the benefits maybe of the algorithm
liking them and then seeing things drop off
the cliff. But from my perspective, the best
(27:33):
long term,
focus is really focused on that content,
making it as good as possible, making it
relevant to people,
and also diversifying
across platforms
because
there will always be that time where this
platform changes. It could be temporary. It could
be permanent.
But if you're exclusively
getting all of your traffic, all of your
(27:53):
views, business from that one platform,
then you are incredibly dependent upon that, and
your business can literally go under if things
change. Whereas if you are just creating great
content, diversifying across multiple multiple channels and ways
people can find you. You're gonna build more
stability into your business model.
Yeah. I mean, that's a great tip.
That was just for thinking of it, if
(28:13):
TikTok were to disappear tomorrow,
what platforms or strategy would you recommend business
to pivot to and why?
So I think Google and Meta are both
very much rooting for TikTok to, to go
down because I think they will see a
tremendous,
increase in, you know, time people spent on
YouTube and on Instagram and Facebook if people
(28:36):
leave TikTok.
I I personally like, TikTok is a very
addictive app, but I think that
I don't think people are necessarily as I
don't think it's as sticky as some people
think. I think people just, yep, they love
that short form content, but they can get
that in multiple places. Right now, TikTok is
just where they are, where they find it.
(28:57):
But if TikTok goes away, they'll find on
YouTube, they'll find on Instagram, and so forth.
And so I think those channels are what
will significantly
win
if TikTok,
goes away.
Yeah. Very good. I mean, you have a
great deal of experience. I can hear hear
in your in your answers and so on.
What are some emergent trends in digital advertising
that you believe that will have the most
(29:17):
significant impact?
Not talking about the years and years, but
just looking ahead, how you see the the
trends and so on?
The buzzword definitely is AI these days. And
it's it's a buzzword for a reason. But,
you know, most specifically
looking at things like chat GPT,
Perplexity,
Gemini,
seeing some changes
(29:38):
in just the way people conduct searches and
more people
starting their search,
and searching differently
by going to one of those platforms as
opposed to just going to Google and starting
their search there. And we're we're seeing we're,
you know, we're not in a place where
Google's, you know, going away anytime in the
near future, in my opinion, but we are
(29:58):
at a place where Google has more of
a challenge to their dominance of the search
market than any time in a very long
time.
And I think that just the way that
people search is what's gonna change. So, again,
it's not that, oh, they're going to a
different search engine. It's that
we're we're going more towards this kind of
natural language conversation. Hey. Go find me. You
(30:20):
know, here's the criteria.
Go find me the five best hotels in
this location
that are family friendly, that are cheaper than
x amount per night, things like that. Things
that you just can't search Google in that
way.
You might, you know, try and find a
website that's got the kind of information and
then go to there. Whereas now you might
go to perplexity or go to chat GPT
(30:40):
and literally
define the criteria of that search and kind
of engage back and forth with it. So
I think that is gonna be probably the
the single biggest change
in digital advertising, digital marketing, the search world,
just how people find information in the next
you know, right now and and in the
next couple of years is gonna be,
(31:01):
things like like Chaggy Pity and perplexity and
so forth. Yeah. And, yeah, yeah, I think
it has to explore continuously,
not just be,
comfortable with what you're doing at the moment,
but try and and don't worry about,
making a failing there, but then you try
something else. I mean, that's how I think,
I I see how the world works that
that you just have tried a number of
things. And and it might be the craziest
(31:23):
idea who some people say that you don't
try that, but you try it, and who
knows? It might work, in fact.
Absolutely.
Yeah. Well, I mean, you you you mentioned
earlier that you're you're you're traveling on holidays
with your family and so on. And, obviously,
we are a sort of,
a hospitality
channel.
(31:44):
So, and, as many of our listeners know,
we love technology
here at the social hotelier. The only way
to keep up with the new demands of
travelers is to keep up with the latest
trends and so on from whether it's, well,
it's not so new anymore, but myself check-in,
digital concierges,
and keyless entries and so on. So I'm
(32:04):
just curious to get your view
on automation in hotels because we see that
this has
escalated particularly.
And you could see that from,
from the the time of the of the
pandemic.
Do you think this is a way of
the future or with less human contact?
So is automation hotels good or not? Or
how you see the from the customer point
(32:24):
of view?
I personally
like automation and the efficiencies that come with
it. Ironically so I mentioned I was traveling
to Rome recently. They just put a, a
law in place recently where Airbnb hosts can't
offer, you know,
self check-in where they have to meet you
physically and do things. So,
(32:45):
legislatively, there is definitely some areas where there,
there's pushback on automation
and self check-in and whatnot. But, you know,
personally, I I like it. I think it's
one of those things where you're you're you're
always gonna have, at least for a while,
you're gonna have different buckets or segments of
population. You're gonna have people like me and
I think probably it's gonna skew more towards
(33:05):
young people. Young people who just grew up
in a more technologically,
you know, the first world
where we're more used to,
you know, self check-in, self ordering, things like
that, and we like the efficiency that comes
with that. Whereas there's also gonna be people
who just like that that human touch and
aspect,
And that's something that they may be more
(33:25):
used to as well. So
I think probably generationally,
as, you know, current
youth grow up and become more of the
people who are spending the money on the
hotel, spending the money on the stays,
There's gonna be more and more push and
demand for
automation, self check-in, things like that.
I think we're still at a place, you
know, right now where there are plenty of
(33:47):
people who like that human touch where it's
maybe not a % required.
And I'm talking a little bit certainly, I'm
talking outside of the scope of my expertise
because I'm I'm not, in the operation side
of the hotel industry, so
extrapolating some opinions here. But I think as,
again, as people as as the current youth
get older and, become more of the the
money spenders, it makes sense to really lean
(34:08):
into that automation side of things. Yeah. I
mean, from my experience, I I I also
enjoy the fact that I can,
I'm arriving to to let's see. I would
fly into Rome. It's a late night.
I love the idea that you can I
can just I have
everything in my hand that I can get
up to the room right away? And then
(34:29):
when I actually need some help, maybe the
next day and so on, I want to
ask a question, then I can, of course,
connect with with a person in in,
concierge or or one of the,
service managers and so on. But, I I
really also enjoy the fact that that I
can,
have a quick access to the room. I
I'm tired. I'm not interested in having a
long chat with anyone. I just want to
(34:50):
get get some rest. The the key factor
is that that, when you have a,
when you get to the room and and
some something is not right there and how
to get it fixed fixed quickly. And I
found, of course, that if you had someone
in certain hotels, you have people to,
escort to your room, then you can,
normally, in these hotels, then they will explain
(35:11):
to you the features. And, also, they will
also notice themselves at all. K. We are
missing this. We are missing that. So they'll
fix it right away. But when you go
to the room and you realize that you
had already took your taken a shower and
you're ready to go to bed and you
realize something was missing, then
do you really want to make that call
again and and, get it fixed? So there
are there are different pros and cons on
(35:31):
this, but, generally, also, I mean, I I'm
in favor of, particularly when I'm, arriving that
I can have a just I can get
to the room and then,
not going into a long conversation until I'm
ready to have that conversation myself.
Yes. That's that's very much, where I'm at
as well. That that at the end of
that long day of travel, I just wanna
(35:52):
I just wanna get there and rest. No.
Not looking for that conversation.
Sure.
So I just have two more questions for
for you before we wrap up and and,
your tips and tricks and, advice has been
very helpful. One question that I like to
ask all my guests. Besides what we have
talked about,
what other trends do you see happening in
hospitality
that hoteliers should take note of?
(36:14):
Understanding to you when you travel, you travel
more on on on on holiday and so
on, but just sort of any thoughts that
you have on this or what you have
observed.
Yeah. I would say
one thing I'd like to see more of
is the ability for, you know, shorter term
stays at hotels and locations. And there's certainly,
(36:35):
you know, some some business models where they're
trying to to say, hey. You don't have
to book a whole night or two nights.
You know? Hey. You you fly in. You
are, you know, at the airport for a
while. You just need to freshen up before
continuing on, things like that. I was looking
for something like that recently on our trip
in Rome, and there's just were very few
options for kind of a a short stay
that didn't require, you know, an overnight that
(36:57):
wasn't necessary. So I'd love to see more
of that. I I don't know if there's
if that's gonna happen or not. I don't
know how kind of the all all the
economics of that work,
but I'd I'd love to see that. And
I would say, you know, the other probably
biggest thing that comes to mind for me
is,
again, how hotels are going to kind of
work and integrate with
(37:18):
things like ChatGPT and Perplexity
who are becoming the new search engine for
stays
and trying to make sure that, hey. If
I'm if I'm a hotel, I'm a hotel
chain exec, for example.
I wanna make sure that when someone searches
Chat GPT, for example, for my area, that
I'm I'm coming up as as an option.
If you're like, hey. What are the best
(37:39):
hotels here? I I wanna be on that
list. Now how exactly you do that,
is is the million dollar question right now.
And I can't tell exactly how to do
it because I don't know. But a lot
of it, of course, goes down to the
same principles as SEO historically, which is making
sure you've got great content, information online. It's
structured in a way that's easy to see
and observe.
You have, you know, the credibility of people
(37:59):
linking to you that shows that you're not
just a fly by night operation,
having great reviews that you're collecting and displaying
so that whoever is looking at you, whether
that be the robots or that be real
people, can see that you're a great place
and you have a great reputation.
And focusing on those foundation
those foundational elements, I would say, is is
(38:20):
really key for, you know, being a part
of of whatever the algorithm is, whether that
be SEO historically, whether that be the new
AI tools like ChatGPT
and and so forth.
Yeah.
I have quite a few of, my viewers
are are hotel school students.
And, I was at I was attending just
last week,
(38:41):
event in in in in Creation, Zagreb.
And, it's called best stay, which, it which
is done they do it once a year.
And at the end of this event, we
had, some hotel school student. They made a
five minute pitch for
some particular,
topic. And I was kind of thrilled to
see a 17 year old
(39:02):
giving
a extremely professional pitch about this,
with the topic, whether how to be a
great front office manager or how to set
up your career and etcetera. And I was
thinking now since we had this discussion,
we have maybe some of the the viewers
here who's gonna watch this episode.
(39:22):
So some say they're thinking, well, I want
to get into this,
this part of the business. What, John, what
tips would you give them? How should they
get started to,
to get, say, into this advertising
agency business, and, what are the steps they
maybe should take to to get started?
That's a great question. I would say we're
(39:44):
in we're in such a fast moving industry
that
getting in and actually doing the work is
is key. If you go to if you're
gonna go to school for digital advertising,
it you know, a four year degree, it
was like, well, hey, you can get to
the end of it, and everything is completely
different than where it was when you started
four years ago. Yeah. So that doesn't really
work. And, there's so many value in courses,
(40:04):
but even there, things change so often that
I think, you know, courses can be super
helpful if they're recent and and well done.
But at the end of the day, I
would encourage just, you know, find an agency,
find an advertiser,
find someone that you can actually start doing
this with. And you're probably not gonna make
a lot of money initially.
Look at it for experience. You know? Are
(40:25):
there small businesses that you can say, hey.
I have time, and I'm gonna trade that
for you. You don't have time. I'm gonna
help you. I'm gonna figure things out. I'm
gonna figure out what is it like to
post things on a Facebook. What is it
like to run a Google ad? Things like
that. And just go out and and do
it. And
it won't you'd it won't always work. You
will fail. But, hey, that's true of everybody
(40:45):
in the industry. No matter, you know, how
expert you go, it's about
failing, learning from that, figuring out what worked,
what didn't work, iterating up iterating upon that,
and, just getting that real world experience is,
I think, the best the best place that
you can go if you wanna get into
this industry.
Yeah. That was a great tip. Now people
who want to,
were interested to find out more about
(41:07):
John Horn or Stub Group, how can they
reach you and,
probably have maybe a hotel student in Zagreb
that say, oh, I'd like to have a
have a
a short conversation or
a exchange of
messages with John Horn? How can they reach
you?
Yeah. So a couple places. You know, our
website, stubgroup.com,
has a lot of information about us and
(41:28):
the way people can reach out. You can
find me on LinkedIn just by searching my
name. And then last thing I would say
is our YouTube channel. We put out a
lot of content on there about a variety
of things, but very much in the digital
marketing space, a lot of free content. So
search stud group on there and subscribe to
that, and you'll get lots of lots of
free information coming your way.
Well, I'm a subscriber myself, so I'm I'm
(41:50):
an avid avid viewer of your YouTube channel.
So great tips. So, John, thank you very
much for
taking the time today and and and today's
episode, and thanks for all your fantastic insight.
Oh, Oh, thanks so much for having me
on. I really enjoyed
it. Thank you for tuning into the Social
Hotelier. If you enjoyed this episode,
please take a moment to leave us a
(42:10):
review, give a thumbs up, and don't forget
to hit that subscribe button to stay updated.
And if you're listening to this episode as
a podcast,
I'd love to see that you
give us a review on, let's say, Apple
Play, and then that will mean the world
to me. All this, what you do, it'll
help me to grow the show, and I
I will able to bring more guests to
the show.
(42:31):
So we have an incredible lineup of guests
coming your way, so stay tuned for more
thought provoking conversations.
Until next time, take care and keep exploring.
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