January 7, 2025 • 44 mins
As humans we’ve downplayed, or completely ignored, two essential life skills: playfulness and intentionality. As leaders, we are completely missing the boat. Adding lightness to our lives is the skill we most need to cultivate.
In this week’s podcast, Maren and Stephanie along with their team members, Dave and Lori share the crux of soulful leadership - leadership that heralds play, imagination and positivity - each from their unique perspectives.
“This is what has brought me into the soulful leader realm. Is matching with people that are similar and heart like minded and that want to lead with integrity and intention” ~ Lori
Covering everything from Positive Psychology to emotional regulation and intelligence; from the impact of nature/surroundings to the benefits of community and shared experiences; the thread that runs through all of it is the open sharing of both experiences and practices.
This is an engaging, insightful episode filled with practical ideas as well as questions that will push you to an even better 2025 and beyond. Questions like: “How are you going to lighten up?” And “Where does the play fit in your life for this year?”
Please let us know your relationship to these questions - and share our podcast with a leader that would benefit from ‘lightening-up’
- 00:31 Changing of the guard: lightness in business
- 04:55 Are you the person you wanted to become?
- 09:55 Emotional Intelligence or Emotional Health
- 15:59 Issues in our Tissues
- 19:26 Going to the past to fix it
- 24:52 What is your anchor?
- 25:41 Dave - shifting mindsets with play and imagination
- 32:40 Lori - anchoring through nature and awareness
- 36:50 Stephanie - leadership as a path
- 39:37 What’s calling in 2025
LINKS
32:12 Positive Intelligence
40:11 Podcast 176 Interview with Mark Silver
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephanie Allen (00:04):
In a world where we have everything and
it's still not enough, we'reoften left wondering, is this
really it?
Maren Oslac (00:10):
Deep inside you know there's more to life.
You're ready to leave behind theold push your way through and
claim the deeper, moremeaningful life that's calling
you.
Stephanie Allen (00:19):
That's what we invite you to explore with us.
We're your hosts, StephanieAllen and
Maren Oslac (00:25):
Maren Oslac and this is The Soulful Leader
Podcast.
Stephanie Allen (00:30):
Yay!
Maren Oslac (00:31):
Welcome back to The Soulful Leader Podcast, and
welcome to 2025. We're superexcited today because one of the
things that Stephanie and I arevery present to is the changing
of the guard, if you will, intoa more... everything has been so
serious and very heavy in ourworld. And one of the things
(00:54):
that we've been working with isthat feminine aspect of play.
And so what we decided we wantedto do for our first podcast of
the year is invite some of ourteam members on, so you'll get
to meet a couple of our teammembers and talk about what it
means for us as soulful leadersto come from a place of being a
(01:18):
little bit lighter. From that,how do we bring lightness into
our lives, into the lives of ourteams, into the lives of our
families, and what does thatmean for us as leaders?
Stephanie Allen (01:31):
I think this is a really great, poignant
question, because for myself,when I think of play sometimes
I, you know, I've been told it'sjust like, I'm winging it.
You're just kind of fartingaround, you know? And
unfortunately, it's like we tendto throw out the playfulness and
(01:51):
the light heartedness and losethe intentionality of why we're
here. And I think there's a waythat we can, we can do both.
(And I'm laughing like Maren,like going around that screen.
I'm like, Oh my gosh, everyone'smoving.)
Maren Oslac (02:05):
(I'm playing with the video... speaking of
playing.)
Stephanie Allen (02:10):
So, we have some really playful team
members, so we invited them on,and I'd love to introduce you,
because I'm super excited. Dave,who has been a, Super Dave, who
has been with me on a team forlike, almost 10 years now and
has a very playful, silly way ofbeing and yet very intentional,
(02:31):
very, you know, moving towardsthe goal getting things happen.
And I am super excited. So wewant to introduce you and find
out a little bit more about youand what, what, how you stay
lighthearted and intentional.
And then we also have wonderfulLori. Lori is new with us in the
last year, and is doing a lot ofthe transcribing of our Soulful
Leaders, and has come to to me acouple years ago, and I just, I
(02:55):
find you so delightful and socurious and and I don't want to
say childish, it's likechildlike wonder, like... I
wonder, and I wonder what, and Iwonder if this... and I just
think you also bring such alovely light heartedness. So I
want to welcome both of you andsuper excited.
Dave (03:13):
Awesome. Thank you very much. Yeah, you just reminded me
it's been, it's been, gotta beclose to 10 years now that that
we've been working together, orI've been working with you on
certain projects over the manyyears, and doing all kinds of
fun things, and none of whichinvolve podcast production, but
(03:34):
now I'm Your Podcast Producer,and, you know, having fun With
that, and we, we've got a lot ofepisodes under our belts, and
it's, it's, it's been a awesomefor me, because I get exposed to
all that goodness that you're,you guys are creating and
putting out there every, every,uh, every podcast. And, you
(03:59):
know, so I'm, I'm very, verypleased, because I know, like
I'm kind of jumping the shiphere a little bit. But the whole
thing about working with thismaterial that you guys produce
is it's transforming who I am.
I'm not the same guy I was 10years ago when we first met. But
being exposed and being I mean,you become a part of your
(04:19):
environment, right? And what agreat environment to become a
part of. So, yeah, very, veryhappy to be here.
Stephanie Allen (04:28):
That is so exciting, Dave. I mean, I think
what you said is like, you know,you're not the same person as
you were. I don't think I ameither. I know I've said that to
Maren, no one is, but it's, it'sbeen an intentional and yet
playful unfolding, hasn't it?
Oh,
Dave (04:46):
very playful, very intentional and very encouraging
and very inspirational. I mean,every positive word you can
think of, it's all in there. So
Maren Oslac (04:56):
our teacher says something that's like unless
you're choosing your destiny,you'll be living your fate. And
I do think that most people willlook back over their 10 years
and be like, Wow, I'm not thesame person I was 10 years ago.
What I, the question that I haveis, is this the person you
wanted to become? Did you do it?
So we keep using the wordintentionality, and when I think
(05:18):
about for that for myself,that's the quote that comes into
my head. Is from our teacher oflike, am I choosing each day,
each moment, who I want tobecome, and what does that mean
for me? And so when I waslistening to you, Dave, that's
what I heard. Was like, I youknow, like, you become your, the
people. What is that quote? Youbecome the sum total of the five
(05:40):
people that that you're with.
And, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it'slike, yeah, who are you choosing
to be around? And the fact that,like, I know I'm choosing to be
around you guys, which excitesme, and I think that's what
Stephanie was pointing to, islike, wow, I've changed a lot
too, and it's not, it's becauseof being around you guys.
Dave (06:02):
I agree, yeah, absolutely.
I think, I think sometimes theintentionality is is very, even
the intentionality isintentional in that you've set
the intention that you're veryconsciously making that
decision. But a lot of timesit's just who you want to be
inside in your heart of hearts.
And so you naturally flow inthat direction, and you
(06:25):
naturally cling to those kind ofpeople, and you naturally absorb
so there are people in your lifethat that you know they suck the
energy out of your life, andthere are people in your life
that inject energy into yourlife, and you naturally want to
be with people that are full ofenergy, full of wisdom, and
(06:47):
giving you and feeding your soulwith all of that goodness, but
you're doing it back. It's a twoway street. It's not that you're
you're absorbing it all and notreciprocating it. It really is a
symbiotic relationship betweenthe two or three or four or
five, however, many people arein your circle of influence or
(07:08):
your immediate circle ofinfluence, right?
Stephanie Allen (07:12):
Yeah, we feed each other, don't we? Yeah, we
Dave (07:15):
do. We do. And I've seen the same thing from Lori too. I
know a little bit about her pasttoo, with what she's been doing,
and she's very much of a like agiver and a same kind of thing
with her energy, for sure.
Lori Holtz (07:30):
Thank you, Dave. I think that that's a good
starting point for me toconsider. Is, this is what has
brought me into the soulfulleader realm. Is matching with
people that are similar andheart like minded and that want
to lead with integrity andintention, you know, over over
(07:53):
ego and control and and I've hada lot of great- various
experiences of my life that hassolidified my my want and my
purpose for seeking out peopleand situations that are going to
support not only ourselves andthe people that we get to either
lead or work alongside with,that we're also going to ripple
(08:14):
out into this, this much neededworld And realm of being with
people in a good way and andleading from your from your
heart, you know, we talk aboutbeing light, and what makes this
light, and the work of beinglight in this life is is tough
(08:36):
work. You know, it's very, it'svery, you have to be very
intentional and to always bemindful and and you have to take
care of your emotional health,in in not just your physical
health, but your emotionalhealth is so, so important. And
(08:56):
so, yeah, so that just it leadsme to that what's makes us light
and and I have, you know, somethings that I think about, and
heaviness comes to me a lot isthis, you know, when what makes
you heavy in this life is justright on the flip side of what
you two are saying about makingit fun and creative when things
(09:18):
get heavy, that's really When weneed to make things fun and
light, and Maren and Stephaniegot such a good take on it. You
know, it's a good follow you aregreat follow through people for
me to have met when I did, andto join, to join your, your,
your, your, I guess, yourrevolution, evolution,
(09:41):
intentionality, that yes. Sovery happy to be here and
sharing in this experience andsupporting the work that you
both do very much in alignmentwith what's needed.
Maren Oslac (09:55):
So you have a lot of experience in in working with
lots of different types ofleadership teams, and when you
say, I'm going to point to theemotional health that you were
talking about, because I'mhearing more and more people
recognize that, which makes mevery happy. Because it seems
(10:15):
like until, you know, the lastmaybe five or 10 years, it's all
been about the outer and peopleare starting to realize that
there's a whole inner component.
And as as you have workedthrough over the years with
different teams, what have younoticed around that? That
because I think that that'sreally intimately connected to
(10:36):
whether you feel overly heavy oryou can actually lighten up.
And, you know, kind of thethings that we're talking about,
Lori Holtz (10:48):
are you speaking more to, like the emotional
intelligence part or theemotional health?
Maren Oslac (10:54):
What do you want to chat about?
Lori Holtz (10:57):
Because there's, you know, the two are, for me,
obviously interlinked. You know,when you when you have a good
foundation for being healthyemotionally - like I just
watched a video, a parentingvideo the other day, and it
talked about the difference thatit makes when we teach kids how
to emotionally regulatethemselves, when a difference it
(11:19):
makes. And, you know, I thinkabout some of the temper
tantrums that I've seen at myworkplaces and thinking, Oh,
that might have been helpful.
And I think we all can speak tothose stories of, you know, not
being served as well in in howwe are parented around our
feelings, because it's, it'smulti generational. It just, it
(11:40):
is what it is, but, but you tiethat in with intelligence too.
Like, seriously, I didn't thinkI was smart until I was, like,
intelligent, smart until I wasin my 30s, because I didn't
enjoy academics at all. I didn'tlearn well that way. And what I
discovered is, is that if youhave emotional intelligence, and
(12:03):
some people have higher, lower,I think, like intellectual
intelligence, intelligence, ifthere was a way to measure it,
that's not good or bad, it justis on a scale. I think when you
focus on emotional intelligenceas well, because we can always
improve those two things in theworkplace, it would change the
(12:24):
workplace if people had theability to know how to regulate
themselves, and they had themindset and the want to become a
little bit smarter with theirfeelings like, you know, just be
even learning skills like how tohave a fight fairly. Wouldn't
that be great, you know, yeah,
Stephanie Allen (12:45):
to be you, how to actually be okay in conflict
howand stay present. Yeah, I want
to even ask you one morequestion about emotional
regulation, because it is partof a and maybe even some of the
things that both you and Daveand all of us that do to help
emotionally regulate ourselves.
Because I think a lot of times,at least, what I would, had
(13:07):
learned, what I thought wasemotional regulation, would be
stuff your emotions. This is nota place to feel like if you're
going to do that, you go homeand or you go get a therapist.
But this is, you know, grow up,you know, tough it out. That
seems like that. That's that's ahard place of just like, you
know, take your emotions and putthem on shelf over here instead
(13:28):
of saying, maybe there's anotherway. It's obviously not. I'm
gonna, like, blow up and have ameltdown, like the temper
tantrum, which happens at worktime, you know, like, Okay, I'm
working with a five year oldright now, and they're, they
didn't get their candy and, andI've been that way too. Like,
I've been that way too. And so,yeah, tell me a little bit more.
(13:49):
Lori, Dave, you know how, howyou work with that? Like, what
do you do? What's your what'syour practice, what's your
presence, that you do when itgets emotionally uncomfortable?
Dave (14:04):
I just have to, I just sorry. I just have to produce
one of the one of the podcasts,and it kind of puts me right
back where I belong. Sorry, goahead Lori.
Lori Holtz (14:14):
I was gonna say, if you had something, Dave, I'd be
happy to let you go. But in themeantime, what do I do? I I was,
I'm a parent. I mean, she's,she's 30 now, but I always kind
of go back to those basics. AndI think, you know, like you said
(14:35):
there, I'm dealing with a fiveyear old right now. There's
obviously a lot going on that Ican't respond to. And even if
I've become reactive, it wouldalways come back to just having
the idea that this isn't aboutme. This is something that
they're obviously experiencing,and kind of, you know, be polite
and and then, and then circleback if that's needed or address
(14:59):
it in the moment. But it alwayscomes with and this was my
secret tip. This was my numberone parenting, yes, success, and
it works for all of myrelationships. Acknowledge
people. Just acknowledge them.
You know, we want to be seen. Imean, there's that quote, We
want to be seen. We want to beheard. And even if it's coming
out sideways, it's stillimportant to acknowledge so just
(15:20):
a skill of saying back, I cansee that you're really upset
right now, or I'm sorry that ifupset you, or just whatever
feels good in the moment to say,but as long as they have that
flicker of, oh, okay, I'mgetting acknowledged here, then
you then you know that you'vegot a more common place to come
from,
Stephanie Allen (15:41):
yeah? Instead of shaming it right, like you're
really upset, this isn't a goodplace, you need to just take
this somewhere else that wouldbe shaming or ignoring it. Yeah,
that's
Dave (15:52):
so true. That's That's brilliant. I like that very
much. Yeah, yeah.
Stephanie Allen (16:00):
We ignore it in ourselves. And so, you know, we
ignore it, which is another wayof stuffing it. I'll just ignore
this. It'll go away, but itdoesn't. It gets locked into our
tissues. And I always say, youknow, then, then we have issues
in our tissues, you know. Andthen, you know, if we don't, if
we don't voice it, if we don't,you know, we forget about it.
And then it becomes buried intoour unconscious, and we don't
(16:21):
know why we feel off. We don'tknow why things aren't working
well. We don't know why all of asudden we start having stomach
aches or headaches or some sortof physical pain, and we're
like, I don't know. I didn't Ididn't hurt myself, but I woke
up and my knee hurts. I don'tknow. I don't know. Maybe I just
rolled over in bed. That's myown, you know. Instead of
saying, maybe, maybe there'ssomething in there that's that's
(16:44):
ready and safe enough to comeout, can I, can I work with
this? And I'm bringing this in,because I think, as you say,
Dave, you mentioned this too, isthat it's like having a culture,
a workplace culture, like, like,anything heals when we have a
healthy environment. And there'sa big talk about, you know,
cultures in our in ourworkplaces, or in our in our
(17:04):
communities or in our families.
And it's like, if there isn't aculture of feeling safe that
okay, I can address this withsomebody I feel safe. They're
not going to shame me or blameme. They can hold the space to
really hear what I'm goingthrough. And just like you said,
Lori, acknowledge me. I thinkthis is so key. And like, even
like, I'm curious with the twoof you. Like, how did you how
(17:25):
did you pick? Did you pick theworkplace, or did it find you?
I'm curious from yourperspective, because I have a
perspective, but I'm curiouswhat your perspective is.
Dave (17:39):
So I think the world is conspiring in my favor,
personally. And I think for mostpeople, they're pretty much
getting what they what they askfor. So if your, if your self
talk, if your, if the thingsthat are going on in your head
are negative, you're, you'reattracting that to you. And if
(18:01):
you're, if you're being positiveand you're, you're very good
about how you deal withadversity and what you expect to
happen, or how you expect tofall in it and come out smelling
like roses, well, that's what'sgoing to happen. You're going to
create that reality, becausethat's what you're thinking,
that's what you're intending. Sothat's what I was saying
(18:23):
earlier. Sometimes yourintentions are intentional, and
sometimes they're not, and whenthey're not intentional, it's
because of what you're saying toyourself, what you're thinking
in your head, the thoughts thatyou have on a regular basis. And
there's a whole, there's a Imean, there's so many ways of
dealing with that, to get out ofthat cycle if you do tend to be
that kind of a negative personthat has that issue. So really,
(18:48):
you do change who you are, andthen you start really,
everything is going greatbecause wonderful things keep
happening to you. The world
Stephanie Allen (18:58):
I love that I love what you're saying with
that definitely
Dave (19:01):
out to is conspiring in my favor and your favor and
everybody's favor, if that's howthey see it. The whole thing
about the the most importantdecision you have to make is
whether you whether or not youlive in a friendly universe.
That was from one of yourpodcasts recently. I love that
quote from Einstein, definitely.
Maren Oslac (19:26):
Yeah, I found that that also, you know, like we're
talking about emotionalregulation and emotional
intelligence. And thank you,Lori, for actually bringing up
the fact that those are twodifferent things. They're
related and they are, they aretwo different things. And I
think oftentimes that we go toour past and think we have to
(19:49):
fix ourselves, and there is acertain amount of working
through past issues that needsto happen, and when you decide
that you live in a friendlyuniverse, and you know where
you're going, you you actuallyare holding your intentionality,
like really consciously and yourattention on your intention.
(20:10):
It's amazing how much of thatstuff falls away that allows you
to be lighter and allows you toit's like it it processes
without you having to go throughit again to re you know, it's
like oftentimes Stephanie willtalk about like we, we re injure
ourselves, trying to go backthrough the issues, right, the
(20:31):
issues in our tissues, insteadof just being able to let it go.
And how powerful it would be forus to get to the place where,
okay, if we need to go throughit, great. And how much of it do
we actually not need to gothrough again? And we can just
allow it, to let it go. Yeah,
Stephanie Allen (20:50):
it becomes a habit of suffering on our
suffering, essentially, yeah,you know, we get something out
of it. And we say, you know, ifyou can't let something go, you
know, emotional that's a drug,man, I'll tell you, you get
emotionally connected tosomething, and if you're not
(21:10):
ready or willing to letsomething go, then you're
probably addicted to something.
Maren Oslac (21:17):
Yeah, well, there's a reason, like you said, there's
something that we get out of it,there's a reward. And so yeah,
becoming right, becoming aware,aware of what, what is the
reward that I actually get outof that? Because we do know what
we need to do in order to changesomething, and oftentimes we're
just not ready or willing orable to do it, because we're
(21:38):
still getting so much of areward out of the old way of
Stephanie Allen (21:42):
Yeah, yeah.
Like, for example, I always saydoing it.
it's like, you know, when you'reemotionally irregulated, you're
going to get attention, outwardattention, probably not in the
way that you want it most times.
And inward attention, meaningit's going to give you that
internal drug, that that tonic,it's not even a tonic. It's like
(22:03):
a cocktail,
Maren Oslac (22:06):
yes, a cocktail of drugs. Exactly
Stephanie Allen (22:08):
Drugs. Yeah, so. But I often will say, Well,
what's what's that costing you?
Peace of mind, relationships,your job, health? Like, there's
a lot of costs that, you know,there's a lot of things you're
sacrificing, and is that trulywhat you want to sacrifice in
order to get attention or inorder to get a high and feel
lighter? Is there another way?
Maren Oslac (22:34):
Yeah, because you end up on that high and so you
might feel lighter, it just is.
It's a false lightness, becauseit's not sustainable. You end up
on a roller coaster, right? Soit's just like any other
addiction. We think that it'sthat addictions are only outer
and we don't realize that theinner cocktail, like the the
drugs you were talking about,you're actually mentioning the
(22:56):
inner cocktail of drugs, of thedopamine and the serotonin and
all of the things that kick inwhen we have the adrenaline
rush, right? So we put ourselveson that. And I love what Dave
was saying earlier, because whenyou can self regulate, when you
can actually get to that pointof 'you know what things are
(23:20):
going well, and I don't need thedrama to make it happen,
Dave (23:25):
good there,
Maren Oslac (23:26):
right? And then you can let, that's where I was
talking about. It's like, thenyou can let some of that stuff
go and not have to re experienceit to get the cocktail of of
drugs and emotions going in yoursystem, right? And you can
actually have a, you know, it'snot the highs and lows are not
bad, again, not bad, good, bad,right, wrong. It just is. Do we
(23:49):
need to have such highs and suchlows? It can be a a positive,
ongoing, you know, ups and downson on a slight like a hill
instead of a mountain.
Stephanie Allen (24:05):
Definitely.
Yeah, yeah. And I think I kindof have the visual of walking on
the razor's edge right, likeyou're trying to maintain this
balance, this, this, and I don'twant to say straight line, but
it's like, it's like you're,you're a witness to both the
highs and the lows withoutricocheting into one or the
other. That doesn't mean youdon't feel them. You might feel
them fully, but there's ananchor in your center, and
(24:26):
that's to me, is that lightheartedness of like when I can
let go that I'm responsible foreverything and that it must be
my fault and I can't do this,you know? Or whatever, all that
that, like Dave was saying, thatinner narrative, that's when I
get ricocheted off into one wayor the other, or, Oh, I'm so
great. I'm so awesome. My lifeis wonderful. You know, it's,
(24:47):
then I'm ping ponging. But if Ican hold that center is that,
you know, I'm, I'm a spiritualbeing, having a human moment
here, right now, and there'ssomething greater beyond me,
like, what, what Einstein says,you know, I'm part of a friendly
universe, and I'm more than justmy emotional body. I'm more than
just my mental So, and I'm morethan my physical so there's a
reason I'm being here. Whatmight this be teaching me? Then
(25:09):
I have that anchor, and I'mcurious as to what, when I say,
'have an anchor', like, forthose that are listening to
like, what is your anchor? Whatis it that that allows you to
stay present to the emotionaluncertainties and the roller
coasters, but at the same time,has that anchor of love and
kindness and peace withinyourself? What is it? What is
(25:30):
that practice? And I'm askingyou all here too, like Lori and
Dave and Maren, what is thatanchor for you?
Dave (25:38):
You know, sometimes you have to get you have to go
through a bad time, or you haveto hurt in order to be motivated
to make things better, so youdon't have to hurt to make
things better. But when you'recomfortable, you tend to coast,
and there's no reason to makethings better because you're
(26:01):
fine, right? But when thingshurt, when you get into a that
kind of a dark part of yourlife, or something where things
aren't going well, or at leastyou don't think they are, and
you again, you're creating yourreality. So you start thinking
the dark thoughts, and you'recreating more and more of it.
(26:21):
Well, what you're end, what youend up doing is you're either
going to go fight or flight,you're going to go one way or
the other, and, and, andhopefully you don't go down. You
start, you realize you've hitbottom, or you're you're close
to the bottom, and it's time toturn your life around. And I
know this happens to a lot ofpeople. It's very common in I
(26:43):
mean, everybody has the best oftimes and the worst of times in
their lifetime, hopefully,because you really need those
extremes. But when you're readyto get out of your hole and when
you're ready to make thingsbetter, or even wherever you
are, it doesn't have to be in ahole to make things better. We
all aspire to be better. Then itbecomes important how you think,
(27:07):
where you're at, where you'regoing, and to recognize that
with intentionality. And again,I go back to the self talk and
your inner narrative. Make itmake it better. Make it better.
And go, go in that direction.
And there's so many resourceslike this podcast that are out
there for that exact reason. Soit's not like it's hard to find,
it's just, it's just a questionof aiming in that direction.
Maren Oslac (27:33):
So that's what you do, is you tune into the people
who are helping along thoselines of either a podcast or a
YouTube video or something that,like you know from your own
experience of when I tune that,it changes my thoughts. It
changes the person that I am andI can I can get out of my
(27:54):
negative self talk, or whatever,whatever hole I've dug for
myself or or life has thrown atme, right, right?
Stephanie Allen (28:02):
Yes, yeah. I'm also hearing you too, Dave,
saying, you know that there's aself reflection moment of, like,
where you stop and you just lookinward and going, Okay, what am
I thinking right now? That thisis crazy. Like, I hear that,
that inward reflection in you,yeah, yep, that's your anchor.
Like, you turn in, go, Okay,what's going on here? What's
(28:22):
What's this calling me and andwhat am I? What am I thinking or
believing right now, right?
Dave (28:27):
And it's the intentionality of changing that,
of turning that around. If youdon't like what you're thinking,
if you don't like what you'resaying, you intentionally, you
you stop like you literally cutit right off. And you say, I'm
going to change this, and evenif it sounds crazy. And in fact,
it's even better. If it doessound crazy, the funnier it
(28:48):
sounds, or the most, the moreridiculous it sounds. Think or
say the exact opposite ofwhatever negative thought you
just had, and go in that totallydifferent direction. Just do it
and you totally negates thewhole emotional drag though, the
whole drama of the negativesituation, whether it's somebody
(29:08):
road rage, somebody really, youknow, drives you crazy,
literally speaking, drives youcrazy. And you, you, you know,
everybody gets that, or theywant to knock the guy off the
road or something like that.
That happens a lot, actually,especially, you know, daily
commuters. And so instead ofhaving that thought, change it
completely or turn it around100% and the the crazier it
(29:33):
sounds, the better. And don'tblame yourself for what
happened, and don't blame themfor what happened. Just just
find a way to, what's the exactopposite of what I was just
going to say, or what I was justgoing to think, or what I was
just, you know, wherever I wasgoing with my thoughts? and that
changes the whole perspective.
(29:53):
But it it's really when youreflect on yourself and how much
you love yourself, how much youbelieve in yourself. How much
you think you're worth. Youknow, self worth, self, love,
self everything, all of that,and everything that you own, and
everything that everyone youtalk to, and all your friends
and everybody, it's justeverything about your life can
(30:16):
be turned around quite easily.
And that's that's talking aboutanchors. That's what I did to
get myself out of my dark spot.
But also I continued to do that,and I still notice it today.
Every now and again, somethingcreeps in, but I it's, it's more
or less a habit to go to thepositive instead of the negative
(30:38):
for any given situation, I'm
Stephanie Allen (30:40):
the big point.
Now, go ahead, I was gonna sayYou're like an inner ninja,
Dave (30:45):
yeah, inner ninja, exactly. But it all comes with
practice, and it doesn't takelong.
Maren Oslac (30:50):
And what I want to point out is that you use the
word I go to the positive. I'mgoing to use a slightly
different word. You go to theplayful, and that's what we
started with. And one of thethings, and it does take
practice to be playful, we'retrained out of it. And it takes
imagination. One of the thingsthat Stephanie talks a lot about
is the fact that healing happenson the right side of the brain,
(31:12):
and that's the creative, theimaginative, the playful place
and and Dave, you're you'rebeautiful at that. Part of the
reason that we wanted to haveyou on today. And I think that
people heard that, and you couldhear that and just like, Okay, I
think the exact opposite, evenunderstanding what the exact
opposite is, that takesimagination, and
Dave (31:32):
yeah, it does, actually it does.
Maren Oslac (31:34):
It really does. And that's a great exercise for us
going into this next year oflike, what might it be like,
just playing with what is theopposite of, of whatever's going
on? Yeah? Yeah. So thanks forthat, yeah?
Stephanie Allen (31:50):
Well, well said Maren, like, instead of saying,
because we can be positive andnot really feel like, I'm
looking at Lori, who's saying,you know, it's time to have that
emotional regulation, thatemotional intelligence. We can,
we can positivity ourselves,right out of feeling and
healing, too. And so I'm gladyou made that, that awareness,
Maren, with Dave, is that, yeah,he, you actually, Dave, you go
(32:12):
to the playfulness that kind ofdoes a pattern interrupt in your
brain, exactly, and you laugh.
It's like, Ha, you know, it'slike the superhero, superhero,
Dave comes in and, and I'm sureit's like this complete,
creative, chaotic comic stripinside your head that's like
busting through. But it's like,yeah, yeah. I think that's a
(32:32):
really, real key point. Thankyou.
Dave (32:37):
Actually, yeah.
Maren Oslac (32:40):
So Lori, is there something that you go to do you
have a go to anchor, to kind ofshort circuit, or change the
pattern that's going on?
Lori Holtz (32:52):
Well, I love what Dave said, and I highly relate
to it. I've just been through abook called Positive
Intelligence, and I'm gonna gapout it that the author's name,
but I can follow up with you ifyou need it. But he talked about
having the judger here, and thenthe sage kind of here, and it's
(33:16):
the judge that kind of puts allof these thoughts into your
head, and is the first one tocome up. And I firmly believe
that I know our typical egoresponse to anything is usually
like shields up and, but just toallow that sage voice to come in
and to have that playfulnesscome in. And what I love about
(33:36):
an anchor, for me is is that Idon't feel like I have a
one-all-done-all because theydon't always fit in every
situation. Because myone-all-and-done-all is nature
and being out in nature andbeing able to be active in
nature, whether it's like smallwalk or a good climb, nature
(34:00):
immediately soothes everythingin me and grounds me. But, you
know, the reality is that Ican't always have it. So I like
having, you know, several thingsthat I can turn to. I was just
experiencing a situation nowwith family and not enjoying
(34:21):
their conversation too much, andI thought, oh, geez, what do I
do for myself right now? BecauseI want to feel good, and I want
to feel grounded and and it wasa simple turning to the sun, my
face to the sun, and justbreathing in in a moment. So
sometimes they have to come upon the fly, but knowing that I
have the ability to be anchoredis what saves me. That's a good
(34:46):
thing. Yeah, that's great. Yeah,yeah, yeah, thank you.
Maren Oslac (34:53):
I love hearing other people what they what they
do, and early in theconversation, Dave, you use the
word things happen naturally,and I find that when we can
really listen to our wisdom, itdoes happen naturally, and yet
we're not taught to listen toour wisdom. So when we can
(35:13):
emulate somebody else, like youhave a great practice that you
have, and you know, like whatLori just shared, we start to be
able to tune into ourselves moreand go, Oh, that might be
something, even if I takeexactly what you did and then I
do it for a little bit, and thenI realize, oh, wait, my version
(35:33):
is a little bit different, orthat didn't work for me. What
else might work for me? Andthere's a playful aspect to that
too. And as adults, we're inthis, we get stuck in this,
right, wrong, good, bad, oflike, Oh, I did it wrong. It
didn't work for me. I did itwrong. I tried Dave's thing. It
didn't work for me. I did itwrong. And instead of doing
that, instead of going to thatplace of that didn't work for
(35:56):
me, how else could I play withit? Yeah, and allowing ourselves
that space. Yeah,
Dave (36:02):
perfect. Yeah. Well, Said, everybody's different, for sure,
and everybody's story isdifferent. Everybody's
background is different, andwhere everybody's going is
different, yeah, so everythingbehind you and everything in
front of you is all different.
And so what works for me may notwork for you exactly the same
way, but it's the concept andfind, find your sun to face,
whatever, whatever it is thatyou want to do to get out of it,
(36:24):
the just the fact that you'relooking for it, you're already
in the right direction. You'realready on the right path if
you're consciously starting tolook for how can I interrupt
that pattern? How can I how canI go in that direction. How can
I face the sun, or whatever itis that? I mean, that's
beautiful. I love that nature,the whole thing, yeah,
(36:45):
everybody, that's good, yeah.
Stephanie Allen (36:50):
I think when we all come together too and we
share our own inner processes,but whether you know where we're
stuck and where it's flowing, welearn, not only for ourselves,
like we go, oh yeah, that'sright. Because when someone asks
a question, hey, how do you? Howdo you, where's your anchor? How
do you find your anchor? Thatmakes you self reflect, it makes
you actually kind of go and go,How do I self reflect? What?
(37:12):
What does that mean? What doesthat anchor and and then, when
you share it, you're not onlyanchoring it at a deeper level
for yourself, again, you'reactually distilling it. You're
giving those that are in yourenvironment an opportunity to
hear a different way that theycan then kind of adopt into
their life in their own uniqueway. And this is why I say this,
that we do need each other. Andin my in my cultural upbringing,
(37:36):
of what I've learned is that tobe a leader, you had to have
control. You don't let it otherpeople, you know, take control.
And I think that is a bunch ofcrap. For me, doesn't work. It's
like, I never say people workfor me. I say we will work
together, and we all it's likesaying my right arm is better
than my left arm, or, you know,my my feet are better than my
(37:56):
hands. I'm like, That'sridiculous. They all have
different they all havedifferent, you know, purposes
for I need them for differentthings. And when we all work
together, is when we have themost holistic, full possibility.
And that's how I see leadership,is that really, my anchor is
like how I lead myself, is how Ilead other people, and how I
(38:19):
allow myself to be led. And I ifI can stay curious and wonder
that there is actually somethinggreater, the friendly universe,
the the loving, the loving God,or whatever you know, someone
else that believes in, but Ibelieve in God, in the universe,
a loving being that is actuallyput me in this body for a
reason, and brought people intomy life for a reason, and if I
(38:42):
stay curious and wonder aboutthat in the friendly universe,
and it becomes playful, Ibecome, oh, this is interesting.
I wonder what's gonna happennext, and how can we do this,
and what has this person broughtme? And what have I brought
them? And what could happentogether? And that's how I see
us as a team. Is that Wow? Like,why would I ever want to do it
alone. Seriously, it's a heck ofa lot more fun, like a lot more
(39:06):
and a lot more. Well, not onlyis it is it easier, in some
ways, I'm not saying it's easy,because there's a lot of inner
work that I have to do to workwith that, but it actually is
easier and surprisinglyproductive and and uplifting
that I wouldn't have been ableto do on my own, right? That
(39:26):
makes sense?
Dave (39:27):
Well, the fun, the fun in life, is that we can all get
along and play in the samesandbox together, right? As
opposed to being alone.
Maren Oslac (39:36):
Yeah, I absolutely love this conversation, and I
hate to cut it short, and we arerunning out of time, so I'm
going to ask for you for thiscoming year, 30 seconds or less,
what is something that you aretaking forward with you into
this coming year, to eitherprocess through or. Uh, move
(40:01):
into or, you know, like, whatreally is calling you for this
coming year? 30 seconds or less.
Lori on the spot. I
Lori Holtz (40:11):
think it was your latest podcast, 175 where
Stephanie said something to theeffect of we may not be a hired
leader in our in our realm rightnow, but we are all leaders from
from where we are, and I'vealways believed that. So this is
the year of really strongleadership for me to bring that
(40:35):
soulful aspect and getting alongwell, aspect to leadership.
Maren Oslac (40:42):
I love that. And you're from the future, because
that's actually going to be ournext podcast. So stay tuned,
because you just got a previewinto podcast 176 Awesome,
Lori Holtz (40:56):
awesome, awesome.
Maren Oslac (40:57):
Dave, something for you?
Dave (40:59):
We talked we just on this podcast. So far, we've talked
about emotional intelligence,we've talked about intellectual
intelligence, We've even talkedabout Positive Intelligence. I'm
going very much into 2025, andprobably the rest of my life
with artificial intelligence asmy focus. This is a new thing
(41:23):
for me, and it's a big change.
It's a whole new vocation,everything. So that's my big
thing going forward. It's myintention for the new year. It's
my intention for this new year,I should say, and so on and so
forth. I am not going to lookback at my old stuff anymore. I
realized that everything I'vedone so far, I've had so many
(41:44):
different kinds of jobs, andthey all culminate, and they all
come together, and they allbelong in the AI world. And so
this is like a big revelationfor me right now, as as we're as
I'm talking to you, and so Ithink my 30 seconds are almost
up, but yeah, I'm walking downthat road because it's fun. So
Stephanie Allen (42:09):
you're embracing new technology to
support your unfolding. Yeah,
Maren Oslac (42:14):
love it. Stephanie, how about you?
Stephanie Allen (42:17):
Yeah, I'm gonna practice. I'm practicing
lightning up and letting go, andthat I don't have to figure
everything out. And that oldsaying of, like, don't just do
something, you know, don't justsit there. Do something. I'm
reversing it, like what Davesaid earlier, don't just, you
know, do something, just sitthere. And because the best
things that have happened to mehave come into my life, and so I
(42:40):
want to have more of a presenceof noticing when something good
is coming into my life, so I canreally, truly receive it and
grow, grow with it and from it
Maren Oslac (42:51):
beautiful. I think, yeah, for myself, it's being
present to the rhythms. It'slike I I've become more and more
knowing, like that internalknowing, not just like, Oh, I
know that, but like when youreally feel something of being
in tune with the cycles, like Iam a part of nature. And so all
(43:15):
of her cycles are cycles that Ialso experience. And no matter
how much I try to separatemyself that with, from that,
with, like, artificial light andartificial this, and artificial
that, like I still am part ofnature. So there's an impact,
and there's an influence, andthere's a there's an
integration. So I'm going tosay, for me, this coming year is
(43:38):
about integrating even furtherinto those cycles, and really
like being present to them.
Awesome. This has been such ajoy. Like I said, I could chat
with you guys forever, andluckily for me, I get to. We
will be back in two weeks withour next podcast, which you got
a preview from Lori. Thank youvery much. So we'll look forward
(44:00):
to that. And please do me afavor and do let us know. What
are your intentions for thiscoming year? How are you going
to lighten up? Where does theplay fit in your life for this
year? Thanks so much for joiningus. We'll see you in two weeks
on the soulful leader podcast.
Stephanie Allen (44:27):
And that wraps up another episode of the
soulful leader Podcast with yourhosts, Stephanie Allen
Maren Oslac (44:33):
and Maren Oslac.
Thank you for listening. Ifyou'd like to dive deeper, head
over to our website, atTheSoulfulLeaderPodcast.com
Stephanie Allen (44:43):
Until next time you.
In a world where we have everything and
it's still not enough, we'reoften left wondering, is this
really it?
Maren Oslac (00:10):
Deep inside you know there's more to life.
You're ready to leave behind theold push your way through and
claim the deeper, moremeaningful life that's calling
you.
Stephanie Allen (00:19):
That's what we invite you to explore with us.
We're your hosts, StephanieAllen and
Maren Oslac (00:25):
Maren Oslac and this is The Soulful Leader
Podcast.
Stephanie Allen (00:30):
Yay!
Maren Oslac (00:31):
Welcome back to The Soulful Leader Podcast, and
welcome to 2025. We're superexcited today because one of the
things that Stephanie and I arevery present to is the changing
of the guard, if you will, intoa more... everything has been so
serious and very heavy in ourworld. And one of the things
(00:54):
that we've been working with isthat feminine aspect of play.
And so what we decided we wantedto do for our first podcast of
the year is invite some of ourteam members on, so you'll get
to meet a couple of our teammembers and talk about what it
means for us as soulful leadersto come from a place of being a
(01:18):
little bit lighter. From that,how do we bring lightness into
our lives, into the lives of ourteams, into the lives of our
families, and what does thatmean for us as leaders?
Stephanie Allen (01:31):
I think this is a really great, poignant
question, because for myself,when I think of play sometimes
I, you know, I've been told it'sjust like, I'm winging it.
You're just kind of fartingaround, you know? And
unfortunately, it's like we tendto throw out the playfulness and
(01:51):
the light heartedness and losethe intentionality of why we're
here. And I think there's a waythat we can, we can do both.
(And I'm laughing like Maren,like going around that screen.
I'm like, Oh my gosh, everyone'smoving.)
Maren Oslac (02:05):
(I'm playing with the video... speaking of
playing.)
Stephanie Allen (02:10):
So, we have some really playful team
members, so we invited them on,and I'd love to introduce you,
because I'm super excited. Dave,who has been a, Super Dave, who
has been with me on a team forlike, almost 10 years now and
has a very playful, silly way ofbeing and yet very intentional,
(02:31):
very, you know, moving towardsthe goal getting things happen.
And I am super excited. So wewant to introduce you and find
out a little bit more about youand what, what, how you stay
lighthearted and intentional.
And then we also have wonderfulLori. Lori is new with us in the
last year, and is doing a lot ofthe transcribing of our Soulful
Leaders, and has come to to me acouple years ago, and I just, I
(02:55):
find you so delightful and socurious and and I don't want to
say childish, it's likechildlike wonder, like... I
wonder, and I wonder what, and Iwonder if this... and I just
think you also bring such alovely light heartedness. So I
want to welcome both of you andsuper excited.
Dave (03:13):
Awesome. Thank you very much. Yeah, you just reminded me
it's been, it's been, gotta beclose to 10 years now that that
we've been working together, orI've been working with you on
certain projects over the manyyears, and doing all kinds of
fun things, and none of whichinvolve podcast production, but
(03:34):
now I'm Your Podcast Producer,and, you know, having fun With
that, and we, we've got a lot ofepisodes under our belts, and
it's, it's, it's been a awesomefor me, because I get exposed to
all that goodness that you're,you guys are creating and
putting out there every, every,uh, every podcast. And, you
(03:59):
know, so I'm, I'm very, verypleased, because I know, like
I'm kind of jumping the shiphere a little bit. But the whole
thing about working with thismaterial that you guys produce
is it's transforming who I am.
I'm not the same guy I was 10years ago when we first met. But
being exposed and being I mean,you become a part of your
(04:19):
environment, right? And what agreat environment to become a
part of. So, yeah, very, veryhappy to be here.
Stephanie Allen (04:28):
That is so exciting, Dave. I mean, I think
what you said is like, you know,you're not the same person as
you were. I don't think I ameither. I know I've said that to
Maren, no one is, but it's, it'sbeen an intentional and yet
playful unfolding, hasn't it?
Oh,
Dave (04:46):
very playful, very intentional and very encouraging
and very inspirational. I mean,every positive word you can
think of, it's all in there. So
Maren Oslac (04:56):
our teacher says something that's like unless
you're choosing your destiny,you'll be living your fate. And
I do think that most people willlook back over their 10 years
and be like, Wow, I'm not thesame person I was 10 years ago.
What I, the question that I haveis, is this the person you
wanted to become? Did you do it?
So we keep using the wordintentionality, and when I think
(05:18):
about for that for myself,that's the quote that comes into
my head. Is from our teacher oflike, am I choosing each day,
each moment, who I want tobecome, and what does that mean
for me? And so when I waslistening to you, Dave, that's
what I heard. Was like, I youknow, like, you become your, the
people. What is that quote? Youbecome the sum total of the five
(05:40):
people that that you're with.
And, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it'slike, yeah, who are you choosing
to be around? And the fact that,like, I know I'm choosing to be
around you guys, which excitesme, and I think that's what
Stephanie was pointing to, islike, wow, I've changed a lot
too, and it's not, it's becauseof being around you guys.
Dave (06:02):
I agree, yeah, absolutely.
I think, I think sometimes theintentionality is is very, even
the intentionality isintentional in that you've set
the intention that you're veryconsciously making that
decision. But a lot of timesit's just who you want to be
inside in your heart of hearts.
And so you naturally flow inthat direction, and you
(06:25):
naturally cling to those kind ofpeople, and you naturally absorb
so there are people in your lifethat that you know they suck the
energy out of your life, andthere are people in your life
that inject energy into yourlife, and you naturally want to
be with people that are full ofenergy, full of wisdom, and
(06:47):
giving you and feeding your soulwith all of that goodness, but
you're doing it back. It's a twoway street. It's not that you're
you're absorbing it all and notreciprocating it. It really is a
symbiotic relationship betweenthe two or three or four or
five, however, many people arein your circle of influence or
(07:08):
your immediate circle ofinfluence, right?
Stephanie Allen (07:12):
Yeah, we feed each other, don't we? Yeah, we
Dave (07:15):
do. We do. And I've seen the same thing from Lori too. I
know a little bit about her pasttoo, with what she's been doing,
and she's very much of a like agiver and a same kind of thing
with her energy, for sure.
Lori Holtz (07:30):
Thank you, Dave. I think that that's a good
starting point for me toconsider. Is, this is what has
brought me into the soulfulleader realm. Is matching with
people that are similar andheart like minded and that want
to lead with integrity andintention, you know, over over
(07:53):
ego and control and and I've hada lot of great- various
experiences of my life that hassolidified my my want and my
purpose for seeking out peopleand situations that are going to
support not only ourselves andthe people that we get to either
lead or work alongside with,that we're also going to ripple
(08:14):
out into this, this much neededworld And realm of being with
people in a good way and andleading from your from your
heart, you know, we talk aboutbeing light, and what makes this
light, and the work of beinglight in this life is is tough
(08:36):
work. You know, it's very, it'svery, you have to be very
intentional and to always bemindful and and you have to take
care of your emotional health,in in not just your physical
health, but your emotionalhealth is so, so important. And
(08:56):
so, yeah, so that just it leadsme to that what's makes us light
and and I have, you know, somethings that I think about, and
heaviness comes to me a lot isthis, you know, when what makes
you heavy in this life is justright on the flip side of what
you two are saying about makingit fun and creative when things
(09:18):
get heavy, that's really When weneed to make things fun and
light, and Maren and Stephaniegot such a good take on it. You
know, it's a good follow you aregreat follow through people for
me to have met when I did, andto join, to join your, your,
your, your, I guess, yourrevolution, evolution,
(09:41):
intentionality, that yes. Sovery happy to be here and
sharing in this experience andsupporting the work that you
both do very much in alignmentwith what's needed.
Maren Oslac (09:55):
So you have a lot of experience in in working with
lots of different types ofleadership teams, and when you
say, I'm going to point to theemotional health that you were
talking about, because I'mhearing more and more people
recognize that, which makes mevery happy. Because it seems
(10:15):
like until, you know, the lastmaybe five or 10 years, it's all
been about the outer and peopleare starting to realize that
there's a whole inner component.
And as as you have workedthrough over the years with
different teams, what have younoticed around that? That
because I think that that'sreally intimately connected to
(10:36):
whether you feel overly heavy oryou can actually lighten up.
And, you know, kind of thethings that we're talking about,
Lori Holtz (10:48):
are you speaking more to, like the emotional
intelligence part or theemotional health?
Maren Oslac (10:54):
What do you want to chat about?
Lori Holtz (10:57):
Because there's, you know, the two are, for me,
obviously interlinked. You know,when you when you have a good
foundation for being healthyemotionally - like I just
watched a video, a parentingvideo the other day, and it
talked about the difference thatit makes when we teach kids how
to emotionally regulatethemselves, when a difference it
(11:19):
makes. And, you know, I thinkabout some of the temper
tantrums that I've seen at myworkplaces and thinking, Oh,
that might have been helpful.
And I think we all can speak tothose stories of, you know, not
being served as well in in howwe are parented around our
feelings, because it's, it'smulti generational. It just, it
(11:40):
is what it is, but, but you tiethat in with intelligence too.
Like, seriously, I didn't thinkI was smart until I was, like,
intelligent, smart until I wasin my 30s, because I didn't
enjoy academics at all. I didn'tlearn well that way. And what I
discovered is, is that if youhave emotional intelligence, and
(12:03):
some people have higher, lower,I think, like intellectual
intelligence, intelligence, ifthere was a way to measure it,
that's not good or bad, it justis on a scale. I think when you
focus on emotional intelligenceas well, because we can always
improve those two things in theworkplace, it would change the
(12:24):
workplace if people had theability to know how to regulate
themselves, and they had themindset and the want to become a
little bit smarter with theirfeelings like, you know, just be
even learning skills like how tohave a fight fairly. Wouldn't
that be great, you know, yeah,
Stephanie Allen (12:45):
to be you, how to actually be okay in conflict
howand stay present. Yeah, I want
to even ask you one morequestion about emotional
regulation, because it is partof a and maybe even some of the
things that both you and Daveand all of us that do to help
emotionally regulate ourselves.
Because I think a lot of times,at least, what I would, had
(13:07):
learned, what I thought wasemotional regulation, would be
stuff your emotions. This is nota place to feel like if you're
going to do that, you go homeand or you go get a therapist.
But this is, you know, grow up,you know, tough it out. That
seems like that. That's that's ahard place of just like, you
know, take your emotions and putthem on shelf over here instead
(13:28):
of saying, maybe there's anotherway. It's obviously not. I'm
gonna, like, blow up and have ameltdown, like the temper
tantrum, which happens at worktime, you know, like, Okay, I'm
working with a five year oldright now, and they're, they
didn't get their candy and, andI've been that way too. Like,
I've been that way too. And so,yeah, tell me a little bit more.
(13:49):
Lori, Dave, you know how, howyou work with that? Like, what
do you do? What's your what'syour practice, what's your
presence, that you do when itgets emotionally uncomfortable?
Dave (14:04):
I just have to, I just sorry. I just have to produce
one of the one of the podcasts,and it kind of puts me right
back where I belong. Sorry, goahead Lori.
Lori Holtz (14:14):
I was gonna say, if you had something, Dave, I'd be
happy to let you go. But in themeantime, what do I do? I I was,
I'm a parent. I mean, she's,she's 30 now, but I always kind
of go back to those basics. AndI think, you know, like you said
(14:35):
there, I'm dealing with a fiveyear old right now. There's
obviously a lot going on that Ican't respond to. And even if
I've become reactive, it wouldalways come back to just having
the idea that this isn't aboutme. This is something that
they're obviously experiencing,and kind of, you know, be polite
and and then, and then circleback if that's needed or address
(14:59):
it in the moment. But it alwayscomes with and this was my
secret tip. This was my numberone parenting, yes, success, and
it works for all of myrelationships. Acknowledge
people. Just acknowledge them.
You know, we want to be seen. Imean, there's that quote, We
want to be seen. We want to beheard. And even if it's coming
out sideways, it's stillimportant to acknowledge so just
(15:20):
a skill of saying back, I cansee that you're really upset
right now, or I'm sorry that ifupset you, or just whatever
feels good in the moment to say,but as long as they have that
flicker of, oh, okay, I'mgetting acknowledged here, then
you then you know that you'vegot a more common place to come
from,
Stephanie Allen (15:41):
yeah? Instead of shaming it right, like you're
really upset, this isn't a goodplace, you need to just take
this somewhere else that wouldbe shaming or ignoring it. Yeah,
that's
Dave (15:52):
so true. That's That's brilliant. I like that very
much. Yeah, yeah.
Stephanie Allen (16:00):
We ignore it in ourselves. And so, you know, we
ignore it, which is another wayof stuffing it. I'll just ignore
this. It'll go away, but itdoesn't. It gets locked into our
tissues. And I always say, youknow, then, then we have issues
in our tissues, you know. Andthen, you know, if we don't, if
we don't voice it, if we don't,you know, we forget about it.
And then it becomes buried intoour unconscious, and we don't
(16:21):
know why we feel off. We don'tknow why things aren't working
well. We don't know why all of asudden we start having stomach
aches or headaches or some sortof physical pain, and we're
like, I don't know. I didn't Ididn't hurt myself, but I woke
up and my knee hurts. I don'tknow. I don't know. Maybe I just
rolled over in bed. That's myown, you know. Instead of
saying, maybe, maybe there'ssomething in there that's that's
(16:44):
ready and safe enough to comeout, can I, can I work with
this? And I'm bringing this in,because I think, as you say,
Dave, you mentioned this too, isthat it's like having a culture,
a workplace culture, like, like,anything heals when we have a
healthy environment. And there'sa big talk about, you know,
cultures in our in ourworkplaces, or in our in our
(17:04):
communities or in our families.
And it's like, if there isn't aculture of feeling safe that
okay, I can address this withsomebody I feel safe. They're
not going to shame me or blameme. They can hold the space to
really hear what I'm goingthrough. And just like you said,
Lori, acknowledge me. I thinkthis is so key. And like, even
like, I'm curious with the twoof you. Like, how did you how
(17:25):
did you pick? Did you pick theworkplace, or did it find you?
I'm curious from yourperspective, because I have a
perspective, but I'm curiouswhat your perspective is.
Dave (17:39):
So I think the world is conspiring in my favor,
personally. And I think for mostpeople, they're pretty much
getting what they what they askfor. So if your, if your self
talk, if your, if the thingsthat are going on in your head
are negative, you're, you'reattracting that to you. And if
(18:01):
you're, if you're being positiveand you're, you're very good
about how you deal withadversity and what you expect to
happen, or how you expect tofall in it and come out smelling
like roses, well, that's what'sgoing to happen. You're going to
create that reality, becausethat's what you're thinking,
that's what you're intending. Sothat's what I was saying
(18:23):
earlier. Sometimes yourintentions are intentional, and
sometimes they're not, and whenthey're not intentional, it's
because of what you're saying toyourself, what you're thinking
in your head, the thoughts thatyou have on a regular basis. And
there's a whole, there's a Imean, there's so many ways of
dealing with that, to get out ofthat cycle if you do tend to be
that kind of a negative personthat has that issue. So really,
(18:48):
you do change who you are, andthen you start really,
everything is going greatbecause wonderful things keep
happening to you. The world
Stephanie Allen (18:58):
I love that I love what you're saying with
that definitely
Dave (19:01):
out to is conspiring in my favor and your favor and
everybody's favor, if that's howthey see it. The whole thing
about the the most importantdecision you have to make is
whether you whether or not youlive in a friendly universe.
That was from one of yourpodcasts recently. I love that
quote from Einstein, definitely.
Maren Oslac (19:26):
Yeah, I found that that also, you know, like we're
talking about emotionalregulation and emotional
intelligence. And thank you,Lori, for actually bringing up
the fact that those are twodifferent things. They're
related and they are, they aretwo different things. And I
think oftentimes that we go toour past and think we have to
(19:49):
fix ourselves, and there is acertain amount of working
through past issues that needsto happen, and when you decide
that you live in a friendlyuniverse, and you know where
you're going, you you actuallyare holding your intentionality,
like really consciously and yourattention on your intention.
(20:10):
It's amazing how much of thatstuff falls away that allows you
to be lighter and allows you toit's like it it processes
without you having to go throughit again to re you know, it's
like oftentimes Stephanie willtalk about like we, we re injure
ourselves, trying to go backthrough the issues, right, the
(20:31):
issues in our tissues, insteadof just being able to let it go.
And how powerful it would be forus to get to the place where,
okay, if we need to go throughit, great. And how much of it do
we actually not need to gothrough again? And we can just
allow it, to let it go. Yeah,
Stephanie Allen (20:50):
it becomes a habit of suffering on our
suffering, essentially, yeah,you know, we get something out
of it. And we say, you know, ifyou can't let something go, you
know, emotional that's a drug,man, I'll tell you, you get
emotionally connected tosomething, and if you're not
(21:10):
ready or willing to letsomething go, then you're
probably addicted to something.
Maren Oslac (21:17):
Yeah, well, there's a reason, like you said, there's
something that we get out of it,there's a reward. And so yeah,
becoming right, becoming aware,aware of what, what is the
reward that I actually get outof that? Because we do know what
we need to do in order to changesomething, and oftentimes we're
just not ready or willing orable to do it, because we're
(21:38):
still getting so much of areward out of the old way of
Stephanie Allen (21:42):
Yeah, yeah.
Like, for example, I always saydoing it.
it's like, you know, when you'reemotionally irregulated, you're
going to get attention, outwardattention, probably not in the
way that you want it most times.
And inward attention, meaningit's going to give you that
internal drug, that that tonic,it's not even a tonic. It's like
(22:03):
a cocktail,
Maren Oslac (22:06):
yes, a cocktail of drugs. Exactly
Stephanie Allen (22:08):
Drugs. Yeah, so. But I often will say, Well,
what's what's that costing you?
Peace of mind, relationships,your job, health? Like, there's
a lot of costs that, you know,there's a lot of things you're
sacrificing, and is that trulywhat you want to sacrifice in
order to get attention or inorder to get a high and feel
lighter? Is there another way?
Maren Oslac (22:34):
Yeah, because you end up on that high and so you
might feel lighter, it just is.
It's a false lightness, becauseit's not sustainable. You end up
on a roller coaster, right? Soit's just like any other
addiction. We think that it'sthat addictions are only outer
and we don't realize that theinner cocktail, like the the
drugs you were talking about,you're actually mentioning the
(22:56):
inner cocktail of drugs, of thedopamine and the serotonin and
all of the things that kick inwhen we have the adrenaline
rush, right? So we put ourselveson that. And I love what Dave
was saying earlier, because whenyou can self regulate, when you
can actually get to that pointof 'you know what things are
(23:20):
going well, and I don't need thedrama to make it happen,
Dave (23:25):
good there,
Maren Oslac (23:26):
right? And then you can let, that's where I was
talking about. It's like, thenyou can let some of that stuff
go and not have to re experienceit to get the cocktail of of
drugs and emotions going in yoursystem, right? And you can
actually have a, you know, it'snot the highs and lows are not
bad, again, not bad, good, bad,right, wrong. It just is. Do we
(23:49):
need to have such highs and suchlows? It can be a a positive,
ongoing, you know, ups and downson on a slight like a hill
instead of a mountain.
Stephanie Allen (24:05):
Definitely.
Yeah, yeah. And I think I kindof have the visual of walking on
the razor's edge right, likeyou're trying to maintain this
balance, this, this, and I don'twant to say straight line, but
it's like, it's like you're,you're a witness to both the
highs and the lows withoutricocheting into one or the
other. That doesn't mean youdon't feel them. You might feel
them fully, but there's ananchor in your center, and
(24:26):
that's to me, is that lightheartedness of like when I can
let go that I'm responsible foreverything and that it must be
my fault and I can't do this,you know? Or whatever, all that
that, like Dave was saying, thatinner narrative, that's when I
get ricocheted off into one wayor the other, or, Oh, I'm so
great. I'm so awesome. My lifeis wonderful. You know, it's,
(24:47):
then I'm ping ponging. But if Ican hold that center is that,
you know, I'm, I'm a spiritualbeing, having a human moment
here, right now, and there'ssomething greater beyond me,
like, what, what Einstein says,you know, I'm part of a friendly
universe, and I'm more than justmy emotional body. I'm more than
just my mental So, and I'm morethan my physical so there's a
reason I'm being here. Whatmight this be teaching me? Then
(25:09):
I have that anchor, and I'mcurious as to what, when I say,
'have an anchor', like, forthose that are listening to
like, what is your anchor? Whatis it that that allows you to
stay present to the emotionaluncertainties and the roller
coasters, but at the same time,has that anchor of love and
kindness and peace withinyourself? What is it? What is
(25:30):
that practice? And I'm askingyou all here too, like Lori and
Dave and Maren, what is thatanchor for you?
Dave (25:38):
You know, sometimes you have to get you have to go
through a bad time, or you haveto hurt in order to be motivated
to make things better, so youdon't have to hurt to make
things better. But when you'recomfortable, you tend to coast,
and there's no reason to makethings better because you're
(26:01):
fine, right? But when thingshurt, when you get into a that
kind of a dark part of yourlife, or something where things
aren't going well, or at leastyou don't think they are, and
you again, you're creating yourreality. So you start thinking
the dark thoughts, and you'recreating more and more of it.
(26:21):
Well, what you're end, what youend up doing is you're either
going to go fight or flight,you're going to go one way or
the other, and, and, andhopefully you don't go down. You
start, you realize you've hitbottom, or you're you're close
to the bottom, and it's time toturn your life around. And I
know this happens to a lot ofpeople. It's very common in I
(26:43):
mean, everybody has the best oftimes and the worst of times in
their lifetime, hopefully,because you really need those
extremes. But when you're readyto get out of your hole and when
you're ready to make thingsbetter, or even wherever you
are, it doesn't have to be in ahole to make things better. We
all aspire to be better. Then itbecomes important how you think,
(27:07):
where you're at, where you'regoing, and to recognize that
with intentionality. And again,I go back to the self talk and
your inner narrative. Make itmake it better. Make it better.
And go, go in that direction.
And there's so many resourceslike this podcast that are out
there for that exact reason. Soit's not like it's hard to find,
it's just, it's just a questionof aiming in that direction.
Maren Oslac (27:33):
So that's what you do, is you tune into the people
who are helping along thoselines of either a podcast or a
YouTube video or something that,like you know from your own
experience of when I tune that,it changes my thoughts. It
changes the person that I am andI can I can get out of my
(27:54):
negative self talk, or whatever,whatever hole I've dug for
myself or or life has thrown atme, right, right?
Stephanie Allen (28:02):
Yes, yeah. I'm also hearing you too, Dave,
saying, you know that there's aself reflection moment of, like,
where you stop and you just lookinward and going, Okay, what am
I thinking right now? That thisis crazy. Like, I hear that,
that inward reflection in you,yeah, yep, that's your anchor.
Like, you turn in, go, Okay,what's going on here? What's
(28:22):
What's this calling me and andwhat am I? What am I thinking or
believing right now, right?
Dave (28:27):
And it's the intentionality of changing that,
of turning that around. If youdon't like what you're thinking,
if you don't like what you'resaying, you intentionally, you
you stop like you literally cutit right off. And you say, I'm
going to change this, and evenif it sounds crazy. And in fact,
it's even better. If it doessound crazy, the funnier it
(28:48):
sounds, or the most, the moreridiculous it sounds. Think or
say the exact opposite ofwhatever negative thought you
just had, and go in that totallydifferent direction. Just do it
and you totally negates thewhole emotional drag though, the
whole drama of the negativesituation, whether it's somebody
(29:08):
road rage, somebody really, youknow, drives you crazy,
literally speaking, drives youcrazy. And you, you, you know,
everybody gets that, or theywant to knock the guy off the
road or something like that.
That happens a lot, actually,especially, you know, daily
commuters. And so instead ofhaving that thought, change it
completely or turn it around100% and the the crazier it
(29:33):
sounds, the better. And don'tblame yourself for what
happened, and don't blame themfor what happened. Just just
find a way to, what's the exactopposite of what I was just
going to say, or what I was justgoing to think, or what I was
just, you know, wherever I wasgoing with my thoughts? and that
changes the whole perspective.
(29:53):
But it it's really when youreflect on yourself and how much
you love yourself, how much youbelieve in yourself. How much
you think you're worth. Youknow, self worth, self, love,
self everything, all of that,and everything that you own, and
everything that everyone youtalk to, and all your friends
and everybody, it's justeverything about your life can
(30:16):
be turned around quite easily.
And that's that's talking aboutanchors. That's what I did to
get myself out of my dark spot.
But also I continued to do that,and I still notice it today.
Every now and again, somethingcreeps in, but I it's, it's more
or less a habit to go to thepositive instead of the negative
(30:38):
for any given situation, I'm
Stephanie Allen (30:40):
the big point.
Now, go ahead, I was gonna sayYou're like an inner ninja,
Dave (30:45):
yeah, inner ninja, exactly. But it all comes with
practice, and it doesn't takelong.
Maren Oslac (30:50):
And what I want to point out is that you use the
word I go to the positive. I'mgoing to use a slightly
different word. You go to theplayful, and that's what we
started with. And one of thethings, and it does take
practice to be playful, we'retrained out of it. And it takes
imagination. One of the thingsthat Stephanie talks a lot about
is the fact that healing happenson the right side of the brain,
(31:12):
and that's the creative, theimaginative, the playful place
and and Dave, you're you'rebeautiful at that. Part of the
reason that we wanted to haveyou on today. And I think that
people heard that, and you couldhear that and just like, Okay, I
think the exact opposite, evenunderstanding what the exact
opposite is, that takesimagination, and
Dave (31:32):
yeah, it does, actually it does.
Maren Oslac (31:34):
It really does. And that's a great exercise for us
going into this next year oflike, what might it be like,
just playing with what is theopposite of, of whatever's going
on? Yeah? Yeah. So thanks forthat, yeah?
Stephanie Allen (31:50):
Well, well said Maren, like, instead of saying,
because we can be positive andnot really feel like, I'm
looking at Lori, who's saying,you know, it's time to have that
emotional regulation, thatemotional intelligence. We can,
we can positivity ourselves,right out of feeling and
healing, too. And so I'm gladyou made that, that awareness,
Maren, with Dave, is that, yeah,he, you actually, Dave, you go
(32:12):
to the playfulness that kind ofdoes a pattern interrupt in your
brain, exactly, and you laugh.
It's like, Ha, you know, it'slike the superhero, superhero,
Dave comes in and, and I'm sureit's like this complete,
creative, chaotic comic stripinside your head that's like
busting through. But it's like,yeah, yeah. I think that's a
(32:32):
really, real key point. Thankyou.
Dave (32:37):
Actually, yeah.
Maren Oslac (32:40):
So Lori, is there something that you go to do you
have a go to anchor, to kind ofshort circuit, or change the
pattern that's going on?
Lori Holtz (32:52):
Well, I love what Dave said, and I highly relate
to it. I've just been through abook called Positive
Intelligence, and I'm gonna gapout it that the author's name,
but I can follow up with you ifyou need it. But he talked about
having the judger here, and thenthe sage kind of here, and it's
(33:16):
the judge that kind of puts allof these thoughts into your
head, and is the first one tocome up. And I firmly believe
that I know our typical egoresponse to anything is usually
like shields up and, but just toallow that sage voice to come in
and to have that playfulnesscome in. And what I love about
(33:36):
an anchor, for me is is that Idon't feel like I have a
one-all-done-all because theydon't always fit in every
situation. Because myone-all-and-done-all is nature
and being out in nature andbeing able to be active in
nature, whether it's like smallwalk or a good climb, nature
(34:00):
immediately soothes everythingin me and grounds me. But, you
know, the reality is that Ican't always have it. So I like
having, you know, several thingsthat I can turn to. I was just
experiencing a situation nowwith family and not enjoying
(34:21):
their conversation too much, andI thought, oh, geez, what do I
do for myself right now? BecauseI want to feel good, and I want
to feel grounded and and it wasa simple turning to the sun, my
face to the sun, and justbreathing in in a moment. So
sometimes they have to come upon the fly, but knowing that I
have the ability to be anchoredis what saves me. That's a good
(34:46):
thing. Yeah, that's great. Yeah,yeah, yeah, thank you.
Maren Oslac (34:53):
I love hearing other people what they what they
do, and early in theconversation, Dave, you use the
word things happen naturally,and I find that when we can
really listen to our wisdom, itdoes happen naturally, and yet
we're not taught to listen toour wisdom. So when we can
(35:13):
emulate somebody else, like youhave a great practice that you
have, and you know, like whatLori just shared, we start to be
able to tune into ourselves moreand go, Oh, that might be
something, even if I takeexactly what you did and then I
do it for a little bit, and thenI realize, oh, wait, my version
(35:33):
is a little bit different, orthat didn't work for me. What
else might work for me? Andthere's a playful aspect to that
too. And as adults, we're inthis, we get stuck in this,
right, wrong, good, bad, oflike, Oh, I did it wrong. It
didn't work for me. I did itwrong. I tried Dave's thing. It
didn't work for me. I did itwrong. And instead of doing
that, instead of going to thatplace of that didn't work for
(35:56):
me, how else could I play withit? Yeah, and allowing ourselves
that space. Yeah,
Dave (36:02):
perfect. Yeah. Well, Said, everybody's different, for sure,
and everybody's story isdifferent. Everybody's
background is different, andwhere everybody's going is
different, yeah, so everythingbehind you and everything in
front of you is all different.
And so what works for me may notwork for you exactly the same
way, but it's the concept andfind, find your sun to face,
whatever, whatever it is thatyou want to do to get out of it,
(36:24):
the just the fact that you'relooking for it, you're already
in the right direction. You'realready on the right path if
you're consciously starting tolook for how can I interrupt
that pattern? How can I how canI go in that direction. How can
I face the sun, or whatever itis that? I mean, that's
beautiful. I love that nature,the whole thing, yeah,
(36:45):
everybody, that's good, yeah.
Stephanie Allen (36:50):
I think when we all come together too and we
share our own inner processes,but whether you know where we're
stuck and where it's flowing, welearn, not only for ourselves,
like we go, oh yeah, that'sright. Because when someone asks
a question, hey, how do you? Howdo you, where's your anchor? How
do you find your anchor? Thatmakes you self reflect, it makes
you actually kind of go and go,How do I self reflect? What?
(37:12):
What does that mean? What doesthat anchor and and then, when
you share it, you're not onlyanchoring it at a deeper level
for yourself, again, you'reactually distilling it. You're
giving those that are in yourenvironment an opportunity to
hear a different way that theycan then kind of adopt into
their life in their own uniqueway. And this is why I say this,
that we do need each other. Andin my in my cultural upbringing,
(37:36):
of what I've learned is that tobe a leader, you had to have
control. You don't let it otherpeople, you know, take control.
And I think that is a bunch ofcrap. For me, doesn't work. It's
like, I never say people workfor me. I say we will work
together, and we all it's likesaying my right arm is better
than my left arm, or, you know,my my feet are better than my
(37:56):
hands. I'm like, That'sridiculous. They all have
different they all havedifferent, you know, purposes
for I need them for differentthings. And when we all work
together, is when we have themost holistic, full possibility.
And that's how I see leadership,is that really, my anchor is
like how I lead myself, is how Ilead other people, and how I
(38:19):
allow myself to be led. And I ifI can stay curious and wonder
that there is actually somethinggreater, the friendly universe,
the the loving, the loving God,or whatever you know, someone
else that believes in, but Ibelieve in God, in the universe,
a loving being that is actuallyput me in this body for a
reason, and brought people intomy life for a reason, and if I
(38:42):
stay curious and wonder aboutthat in the friendly universe,
and it becomes playful, Ibecome, oh, this is interesting.
I wonder what's gonna happennext, and how can we do this,
and what has this person broughtme? And what have I brought
them? And what could happentogether? And that's how I see
us as a team. Is that Wow? Like,why would I ever want to do it
alone. Seriously, it's a heck ofa lot more fun, like a lot more
(39:06):
and a lot more. Well, not onlyis it is it easier, in some
ways, I'm not saying it's easy,because there's a lot of inner
work that I have to do to workwith that, but it actually is
easier and surprisinglyproductive and and uplifting
that I wouldn't have been ableto do on my own, right? That
(39:26):
makes sense?
Dave (39:27):
Well, the fun, the fun in life, is that we can all get
along and play in the samesandbox together, right? As
opposed to being alone.
Maren Oslac (39:36):
Yeah, I absolutely love this conversation, and I
hate to cut it short, and we arerunning out of time, so I'm
going to ask for you for thiscoming year, 30 seconds or less,
what is something that you aretaking forward with you into
this coming year, to eitherprocess through or. Uh, move
(40:01):
into or, you know, like, whatreally is calling you for this
coming year? 30 seconds or less.
Lori on the spot. I
Lori Holtz (40:11):
think it was your latest podcast, 175 where
Stephanie said something to theeffect of we may not be a hired
leader in our in our realm rightnow, but we are all leaders from
from where we are, and I'vealways believed that. So this is
the year of really strongleadership for me to bring that
(40:35):
soulful aspect and getting alongwell, aspect to leadership.
Maren Oslac (40:42):
I love that. And you're from the future, because
that's actually going to be ournext podcast. So stay tuned,
because you just got a previewinto podcast 176 Awesome,
Lori Holtz (40:56):
awesome, awesome.
Maren Oslac (40:57):
Dave, something for you?
Dave (40:59):
We talked we just on this podcast. So far, we've talked
about emotional intelligence,we've talked about intellectual
intelligence, We've even talkedabout Positive Intelligence. I'm
going very much into 2025, andprobably the rest of my life
with artificial intelligence asmy focus. This is a new thing
(41:23):
for me, and it's a big change.
It's a whole new vocation,everything. So that's my big
thing going forward. It's myintention for the new year. It's
my intention for this new year,I should say, and so on and so
forth. I am not going to lookback at my old stuff anymore. I
realized that everything I'vedone so far, I've had so many
(41:44):
different kinds of jobs, andthey all culminate, and they all
come together, and they allbelong in the AI world. And so
this is like a big revelationfor me right now, as as we're as
I'm talking to you, and so Ithink my 30 seconds are almost
up, but yeah, I'm walking downthat road because it's fun. So
Stephanie Allen (42:09):
you're embracing new technology to
support your unfolding. Yeah,
Maren Oslac (42:14):
love it. Stephanie, how about you?
Stephanie Allen (42:17):
Yeah, I'm gonna practice. I'm practicing
lightning up and letting go, andthat I don't have to figure
everything out. And that oldsaying of, like, don't just do
something, you know, don't justsit there. Do something. I'm
reversing it, like what Davesaid earlier, don't just, you
know, do something, just sitthere. And because the best
things that have happened to mehave come into my life, and so I
(42:40):
want to have more of a presenceof noticing when something good
is coming into my life, so I canreally, truly receive it and
grow, grow with it and from it
Maren Oslac (42:51):
beautiful. I think, yeah, for myself, it's being
present to the rhythms. It'slike I I've become more and more
knowing, like that internalknowing, not just like, Oh, I
know that, but like when youreally feel something of being
in tune with the cycles, like Iam a part of nature. And so all
(43:15):
of her cycles are cycles that Ialso experience. And no matter
how much I try to separatemyself that with, from that,
with, like, artificial light andartificial this, and artificial
that, like I still am part ofnature. So there's an impact,
and there's an influence, andthere's a there's an
integration. So I'm going tosay, for me, this coming year is
(43:38):
about integrating even furtherinto those cycles, and really
like being present to them.
Awesome. This has been such ajoy. Like I said, I could chat
with you guys forever, andluckily for me, I get to. We
will be back in two weeks withour next podcast, which you got
a preview from Lori. Thank youvery much. So we'll look forward
(44:00):
to that. And please do me afavor and do let us know. What
are your intentions for thiscoming year? How are you going
to lighten up? Where does theplay fit in your life for this
year? Thanks so much for joiningus. We'll see you in two weeks
on the soulful leader podcast.
Stephanie Allen (44:27):
And that wraps up another episode of the
soulful leader Podcast with yourhosts, Stephanie Allen
Maren Oslac (44:33):
and Maren Oslac.
Thank you for listening. Ifyou'd like to dive deeper, head
over to our website, atTheSoulfulLeaderPodcast.com
Stephanie Allen (44:43):
Until next time you.
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