July 18, 2023 • 24 mins
Resiliency is a buzzword. It’s everywhere these days - all of it focused on conquering obstacles and getting back up - all so that we, as leaders, can get back to business as usual and stay on track. What if it’s not about getting back to business as usual?
What if true resilience is embracing and moving through our challenges so that we emerge a different person on the other side? Then the track we were on would no longer fit us. What if true resilience empowers us to disrupt the old paradigm?
Today, Stephanie and Maren tackle this catchphrase. Stephanie shares how she likes the word because it reminds her of re-silence and inner silence makes the space we need for true resilience.
One of the keys to all of it is presence. Being present creates the space, the connected silence, that allows for spirit to step in and guide us. This, the space beyond our inner critic and our judgments, the silence beyond, is where Spirit speaks.
This short, powerful episode will have you looking for your own places of presence and thinking of resilience in a whole new way.
- 00:41 Resiliency: outward, inward - how about both
- 06:53 Bouncing back, or bouncing forward
- 11:22 Clearing space internally
- 15:49 I just want more guidance
“This human being is a guest house, every day a new arrival, a meanness, a sadness, a temporary, emotion that comes in, cleans us out, sometimes empty of all our furniture. Welcome each one of them as a sacred guest, because they may be clearing you out for some new delight” ~Rumi
Please share your insights and questions in one of our Soulful Leaders groups:
Get all the latest episodes, news and updates directly to your inbox. Subscribe here. TheSoulfulLeaderPodcast.com
Watch the podcasts on our YouTube Channel: @Soulful Leaders
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Maren Oslac (00:04):
In a world where achievements and accolades
motivate us to do more and bemore, we're often left
wondering, is this really it?
Stephanie Allen (00:12):
Deep inside, you know, there is more to life,
you're ready to leave behind theold push your way through and
claim the deeper life that'scalling you.
Maren Oslac (00:20):
That's where we excel. We're your hosts,
Stephanie Allen and Maren Oslac.
Stephanie Allen (00:26):
And this is the soulful leader podcast,
Maren Oslac (00:29):
sit back and relax as we share the shortcuts we've
uncovered to help you make shifthappen.
Stephanie Allen (00:41):
Hi, welcome to the soulful leader podcast. This
is Stephanie and I'm here withMaren and I'm really excited to
talk about resiliency. And Iknow we have talked maybe a
little bit about resiliency inthe past, but I always like the
word because it reminds me ofre-silence and how I need to be
more silent. And I justrecently, because, you know, so
(01:04):
much comes up when when you'resilent. I mean, it's amazing
people people say you know,Stephanie, you talk a lot, like
Yeah, but I have a lot ofsilence too. But it's not really
silence. Because it's internallyI'm like talking a lot inside
myself to myself, hey, self. AndI think back to the silence or
(01:24):
resilience, I think ofresilience very differently.
Growing up I was I was prettymuch told that resilience was
like being the Rock ofGibraltar, like you know, you're
tough as nails, you're nothingnothing can crack you like you
are just tougher than tough. Sothe Webster dictionary, the
(01:45):
actually this is the OxfordDictionary. Resilience is the
capacity to with stand or torecover quickly from
difficulties, toughness,remarkable resilience of so many
institutions. Sounds veryconcrete, doesn't it? Like very,
like the Rock of Gibraltar. Verytough. It does. Yeah.
Maren Oslac (02:09):
It also sounds like I mean, resiliency is this hot
topic right now, in inbusinesses and families. And
like, it's like, that's theideal when I see people
marketing is like, increase yourresiliency. And
Stephanie Allen (02:28):
So that what?
So we can keep on handling morepandemics? Like what! Is there
another way?
Maren Oslac (02:36):
it really is, I think that most people do think
of it like that, of increase mytoughness so that I can handle
it, so that I'm ready, so thatyou- and I'm going to tear apart
the sentence that I just usedof, there is a difference
between handling something, andbeing ready for something. And
(02:59):
for me, resilience is aboutbeing able to handle it. It is
not - where you and I are goingwith resilience is more of being
present to the future that wantsto happen. So that that's where
now I'm ready. Because I amaware of the conversation, I'm
(03:20):
in the conversation with life.
And it doesn't take me bysurprise and throw me off track.
And I'm aware of it before it'seven happening.
Stephanie Allen (03:31):
So it's preparedness. Being prepared
inwardly.
Maren Oslac (03:36):
It is an inward because you know, the whole
preparedness thing, you've gotall the you know, the people who
are hoarding food and beingprepared for life. And is that
true preparedness? versusknowing the way I think of
preparedness is the trust, isdeveloping the trust inside
(03:56):
myself that everything I needwill be there when I need it.
That's right before I need it.
Stephanie Allen (04:04):
You know, both of us, both Maren and myself,
both live in the north. And sowe are not unfamiliar with snow
storms. And so I know where Ilive, there's often a be
prepared kind of energy of, youknow, go out, get all your
groceries, get your blankets,get your generator, you know,
and it sounds like we're gonnahave an Armageddon or something
like that. But honestly, likehow much yes, we need to be
(04:27):
prepared in the outer world.
Absolutely. But I love whatyou're saying is like the
internal like, there are thingsthat are going to happen, that
you cannot be outwardly preparedfor.
Maren Oslac (04:38):
You have no idea it's coming.
Stephanie Allen (04:40):
You have no idea is coming. But there are
Maren Oslac (04:41):
Like a pandemic.
Stephanie Allen (04:42):
That's right.
But there's things inwardly thatwe can do that no matter what
happens in the outer world onecan not only, because you know
the second definition ofresilience, by the way is the
ability of a substance or anobject to spring back into shape
elasticity I'm even going totranscend that one too, because
I don't want to just bouncearound and bounce back. And but
(05:04):
yet, it's so interesting becauseto bounce back or have that
elasticity is very differentthan the toughness of the first
definition of resiliency. Sothey're two totally different
things. One is tough one ispliable, or, you know, soft,
really. And what if there was amiddle way, which I see as a
(05:27):
mandorla, mandorla is imagining,taking two circles, when you
know, two separate circles, andthen blending them together,
which is actually the marriagerings. Like when you think of a
figure eight, you think of thetwo symbol of the Rings coming
together. And it's that space inbetween, that's actually a
spiritual practice that I'vedone is that, you know, you
(05:48):
take, I want this, and I wantthat, or this is happening in my
outer world, but this is what'shappening in my inner world. So
it's like you're taking twoopposites, male, female, right?
Wrong, Good, bad, whatever. Andyou merge them together. And you
leave a space where the twocircles overlap. And that space
(06:10):
is to me resiliency. To me, it'sthat space where you drop in.
And because that's a space wherespirit guides us. And that would
be like the cocoon, right? Likethe caterpillar and the
butterfly. And that middleharmonious place is the cocoon,
which is the space of which,where, what wants to happen. And
(06:31):
that's where I want to beprepared, is to be open.
Because, yeah, I mean, there'sthings that you'll never be able
to outwardly prepare for, oreven figure out or even know
what's going to happen. So it'sa very different perspective of
resiliency that I have.
Maren Oslac (06:53):
When I heard your second definition of the bounce
back the elasticity, it's like,I don't want to bounce back, I
want to bounce forward.
Yeah, I love that.
I don't want to go back to who Iwas, whatever it is, that's
coming through whatever the nextchallenge is, I want to
(07:15):
incorporate it, I want tointegrate it into who I'm
becoming and move forward fromthere. And the the the two
separate definitions, what cameup for me and I love that the
it's almost like a Venn diagram,right, the overlapping place
where everything comes together.
And instead of filling it,leaving it, that's the
(07:38):
difference for me, when betweenyou, like a Venn diagram, that
little space is filled with allthe things that are related to
everything. Whereas if I canleave that space open for
inspiration for spirit andin-spir-ation right? in-spirit,
Spirit inside of me, then thatis the preparedness that is the
(08:01):
place where from which I canintegrate what's coming in
what's happened in the past. Andwhat's the incoming from the
future.
Stephanie Allen (08:14):
Yes, because I think a lot of people look at
resiliency of as a way, like wesaid, bouncing back, going back
to the old way or returning towhat was those kinds of things,
it's more of a reaction, ratherthan an opportunity of a
responsiveness to evolve intosomething you didn't even know
(08:34):
possible.
Maren Oslac (08:35):
Right? So how do I get back to what we had? Because
it was so great. Instead ofmaybe this is happening for a
reason to take me forward intosomething that's even better?
Stephanie Allen (08:46):
Yeah, yeah, that we're being pulled.
Maren Oslac (08:48):
I think about that, with the pandemic. And one of
the things one of there's somany, it was hard. And there was
a lot of challenges that cameout for people, including for
me, like losing my business. AndI also look at the layers and
the layers and the layers thatadvanced because of how much we
(09:11):
learned as a culture as a peopleand as individuals, right, to
move us forward and out of ourold way of doing things.
Stephanie Allen (09:21):
And that requires space. You know, it
requires space and I'm gonna, Ilove that, you're right. I mean,
instead of judging something,because, you know, some people
thought it was amazing. It wasso great. And other people found
it was so hard. It was sohorrible. Like there seems to be
there's your mandorla right,those two circles, there's two
opposing views or, you know, twodifferent perspectives. But
(09:43):
ultimately, when they cometogether, there was a space
that's made and how do so how dowe make space? Well, we think of
spring cleaning, and you go inand you clean out your closets,
you clean out your drawers, youclean out the garbage, you clean
up the things that don't call toyou anymore, and there's space
now. in that Space, most of usgo, I love the cleanliness of
(10:03):
the spaciousness that happens.
Right? We love nature becausethere's space. And it is filled.
Like, you know, it will befilled. How many times have we,
like taken aback say, we'regoing traveling. I mean, go,
Yeah, I want to travel and allyou're allowed to take is a
carry on. That's it. And to beable to pack in that carry on
(10:26):
everything that you need, youknow, some people are panicking.
Other people go, Oh, I like thechallenge of being able to do
that. You know, but if I said,Okay, that's one, that's one
scenario, but scenario two islike, Okay, now you can take as
many suitcases as you want.
People fill that space, we dothat. We often go, oh, I can
(10:48):
take anything and it doesn'tcost me anything. And yeah,
sure. Okay, I'll bring that andthe kitchen, saying I'll bring
it all.
Maren Oslac (10:54):
Well, that's like the difference of like, when you
drive someplace versus when youfly someplace.
Stephanie Allen (10:59):
Exactly, yes.
Right, you fit way more in yourcar
Maren Oslac (11:01):
my god, I, I pack my freaking car, I might need
this. And I might need that.
Well, I have the room for it.
Stephanie Allen (11:08):
Most of the times, we don't need that. And
that's kind of that preparednessof like, Oh, great. I can drive
I can prepare, I can take somuch more than what I could take
than if I was flying. But youknow, that's simply not always
true. It's really It's insideourselves. And so how do we
clear out? That's how we clearin the outer world. But how do
we clear in the internal world?
And so when I think ofresiliency, I think it's a time
(11:29):
to actually stop and clean outthe itty bitty shitty committee
that's taking up space in there.
We clean that out, we clean outthe emotions. So when I think of
different levels, physically, wecan clean out Yeah, well, that's
obvious. Mentally, there's youritty bitty shitty committee
(11:53):
emotionally, because every ittybitty shitty committee is going
to have an emotion attached toit. So there's fear, there's
hate, there's sadness, there'slonging, there's depression,
there's overwhelm. Yeah, there'soverwhelmed with all of these
emotional states, or reactionsor feelings that are in there,
that are also we tend to like, Idon't like the nasty ones, like
(12:16):
get rid of those ones. Let'sjust keep on going. But Rumi,
the great mystical poet, Sufipoet, said, You know, this human
being is a guest house, everyday a new arrival, a meanness, a
sadness, a temporary, you know,emotion that comes in, cleans us
out, sometimes empty of all ourfurniture. And then, as he goes
(12:37):
on in the poem is like, youknow, welcome each one of them
is a secret guest, because theymay be clearing you out for some
new delight. And when I sayresiliency, it's sometimes
sitting in the uncomfortabilityof being in that
uncomfortability. And justgoing, you know, I, I've reached
(13:00):
my limit, I've reached my max,maybe I need to sit here and
feel what that's like, so thatit's clearing me out. And that
means to actually emote energyin motion, emotion, that's the
same word. Sometimes we need tohave a good cry, or we need to,
you know, be angry and write outa letter and then burn it or
something, these are allactually really great practices.
(13:23):
Or sometimes we need to pick upthe phone and talk to someone
and just tell them how afraid weare just to have someone hold
space for us to really processbecause when we do that, when we
can really release that, to methat's resiliency, in a new way
rather than a reaction to but toas a responsiveness.
Maren Oslac (13:45):
I think that's so powerful. And I think about when
I've had the opportunity in mylife, to have one of those
really deep cries, or to evenhave somebody hold space so that
I can vent my anger. Or like Idid some anger management stuff
(14:08):
when I was little when I wasyounger, I shouldn't say that,
when I was younger, when I wasin my 20s and when the anger
would come up, I would literallytake a pillow and punch it or I
would go outside with a sledgehammer and literally pound the
ground. You know, I I physicallylet it go. And every time those
(14:28):
things have happened, or thatI've I've chosen that path to do
something actively, cry or ventor pound or whatever, in a
conscious, like, I'm going to dothis consciously in this moment.
Just like I'm going to clean outmy closet today. Right.
(14:50):
Afterwards, there is thislightness, there is this space.
There is this moment of like ah
Stephanie Allen (14:59):
Ah, and there's silence. Re silence. That's to
me what resilience really istrying to call us is to have
more silence inside for morespace for what? What the divine,
what spirit, what our soul istrying to speak to us with, to
(15:20):
guide us. And to empty us out ofall the old itty bitty shitty,
and the stuff that is beenstuffed in there from maybe your
life, maybe even lives that youinherited from your genetic
line, who knows. There's a, wecarry a lot. And often we carry
(15:42):
a lot, not just for ourselves,we're carrying our loved ones
we're carrying for more thanjust even those that we know.
Maren Oslac (15:49):
Yeah. There are two things that I was thinking
about, as you were talking, oneof them is, at the beginning of
the conversation, you said, youknow, oftentimes people say,
Stephanie, you talk so much. Andthen you said, Well, I also have
silence. And inside Stephanie isstill talking.
Stephanie Allen (16:06):
Yeah, she never stops.
Maren Oslac (16:07):
And yet she does, here's what I know about you, is
that she does because you've hada practice of becoming present.
And when you're present, theretruly is a silence that allows
for spirit to step in and talkbecause we are able to silence
(16:32):
the itty, bitty, shittycommittee and that internal
voice and the judgments and allof that stuff. And there's some,
there is a silence beyond it, inwhich Spirit speaks,
Stephanie Allen (16:43):
you are making a very good point, because I
often will work with people whowill say I just I want to be
guided, I want to have moreinner guidance. Like you're
going to need silence for that.
And I think in our currentparadigm of world, we want to
change the narrative. So if it'sa disempowering narrative inside
yourself of like, the itty bittyshitty committee is like, Oh,
(17:04):
I'm not good enough. I'm notloved. I'm, you know, or I'm
amazing, I'm just super awesome.
Like, it's over the top theother way, we try to either
temperate or flip it, like weturn it into another narrative.
And that there's never anysilence, until we can actually
emote it and make space. Andthen, and it is a practice of
(17:30):
absolutely practicing presence.
Like just literally sitting andfocusing on nothing, no thing
that is a practice. It is not
Maren Oslac (17:44):
So the second thing that I was thinking about, and
easy.
this is going to relate directlyto that is everybody processes
differently. And one of the waysthat you process is verbally. So
when it seems like you'retalking a lot, it's because in
(18:05):
order to process the world, youwould do it verbally. And not
everybody does. So for those ofus, and I I'm not, I don't
process verbally. So for thoseof us that don't process
verbally, it often feels likeoh, my god, does she ever shut
up? Right. And now that Iunderstand, and I know that
(18:28):
that's who you are. And that'show you process the world at
this, there's three levels thatwe process, the world at and
that that interaction with theworld level, that top level, it
allows me to be present to youdifferently. It allows me to let
(18:49):
you talk and find the nuggets.
And for me, I don't processverbally verbal is the way that
I connect to spirit. So thethree levels is there's a way
that you interact with theworld. There's a shuttle piece,
meaning there's a there's a waythat you take what's going on in
the world, and you bring it toyour deep self, and then your
(19:13):
deep self comes back andinteracts with the world. And
then there's the way that youinteract with your deep self,
this deep layer.
Stephanie Allen (19:22):
So like a great visualization would be like
imagining somebody standingabove ground. And then you have
flatland that you're standingout and then there's this
underground that is underneathlike deep underneath the soil or
your soul right? And so many
Maren Oslac (19:38):
And there's an elevator that goes back and
forth.
Stephanie Allen (19:41):
That shuttles between the two exactly kind of
like a mind a shaft, you know, amine or a mind shaft either way.
So you can look at that and andI love what you're saying. Yeah,
I tend to have to verbalize itso I can hear it. And I, and my
shuttle, actually the shuttlethat goes back and forth is more
feeling it. So when I'm talking,and I hear it, I am feeling it
(20:06):
in my lips, and I'm feeling itin my body, which helps me then
drop in to that deep soil, adeep underground part of myself,
which is visual. And that'swhere I'll get the guidance. Now
that's, that's the way I'mstacked, everyone's stacked
differently. We have differentdifferent attributes. And I
think it's just fabulous of whatyou're saying, as yours is more
(20:29):
of the visuals. So as you know,you'll see it visually.
Maren Oslac (20:33):
So for me, the way that I'm stacked is that I
processed the world throughfeelings. So I, my, my top
level, the part of me thatstands on top of the earth is
very tactile, and I process theworld through my feelings. And
then the shuttle, for me isvisual. So I can picture
(20:55):
something. And that takes me tomy deep underground, which is
auditory. So I hear guidancereally deeply. And oftentimes,
it doesn't make it back up untilI can actually see it, like so
in order to get the informationfrom my deep self, I have to
picture something, I usepictures and images and then it
(21:18):
brings it to a feeling level.
And then the way I process theworld is through through
feelings, through tactile, soyou've got emotional feelings,
but you also have like actualtouching. That's, you know, one
of the things that I do in lifeis I dance and I move through
life. And before I danced, Iswam there, there is a movement
that helps me to process theworld, the way that talking
(21:39):
helps you to process the world,I have to move to process the
world.
Stephanie Allen (21:45):
So there's a we're speaking of is Dr.
Marcova's work from the I thinkit's called Open Mind. Yeah, her
book, and it's wonderful. And ifyou're interested in that her
book is fabulous, especially ifnot just for teachers, or you
know, being a leader in that wayof trying to communicate ways
but even in relationships,understanding somebody else's
(22:07):
mode, it's so helpful.
Maren Oslac (22:10):
It's amazing,
Stephanie Allen (22:10):
and it's also helpful for yourself, if you are
looking at deepening your yourskill development, your mastery,
even with yourself or selfawareness, to be able to use
those middle modes, because if Ijust stay in verbal all the
time, I don't go deep. I need toactually connect it with my
kinesthetic mode. So I've got todance it, I've got to, I've got
(22:31):
to work out I've got to do yoga,I've got to pick it up and feel
it i i need to feel my emotions.
That's what shuttles me into allof a sudden all see what needs
to happen. Yeah,
Maren Oslac (22:44):
like you said, so many people want to hear their
guidance more and be more guidedand be. And this is one of the
tools that's out there for us iswe I think we all understand
that everybody learns a littlebit differently, right? We've
talked about the visual,auditory and kinesthetic ways
that people learn. We justhaven't talked about how they're
(23:07):
stacked. And that's, you knowwhat, I think that it'd be great
for us to do a whole podcast onthis. So I think that that's
something that we will plan forour future.
Stephanie Allen (23:18):
I love it. So in the voice and the body and in
the seeing of resiliency. We'regoing to do a little, a few more
series on this and talk a littlebit more about how it means to
be re silenced and resilient,and some practices to be able to
use your modes.
Maren Oslac (23:38):
Yeah, and really deepening the conversation with
resiliency being that, to betruly resilient, we are in
conversation with spirit, withlife, with what wants to happen.
Redefining it. Thank you so muchfor joining us today. We are
super excited about where thewhere this is taking us and
(24:00):
we'll hope We hope you'll joinus for our future podcasts on
resiliency. You can find us onour website, the soulful leader
podcast.com and on social media,YouTube, Facebook and LinkedIn
under the soulful leaders. Seey'all next week.
Stephanie Allen (24:26):
And that wraps up another episode of the
soulful leader podcast with yourhost, Stephanie Allen
Maren Oslac (24:32):
and Maren Oslac.
Thank you for listening. Ifyou'd like to dive deeper, head
over to our website at thesoulful leader podcast.com.
Stephanie Allen (24:42):
Until next time,
In a world where achievements and accolades
motivate us to do more and bemore, we're often left
wondering, is this really it?
Stephanie Allen (00:12):
Deep inside, you know, there is more to life,
you're ready to leave behind theold push your way through and
claim the deeper life that'scalling you.
Maren Oslac (00:20):
That's where we excel. We're your hosts,
Stephanie Allen and Maren Oslac.
Stephanie Allen (00:26):
And this is the soulful leader podcast,
Maren Oslac (00:29):
sit back and relax as we share the shortcuts we've
uncovered to help you make shifthappen.
Stephanie Allen (00:41):
Hi, welcome to the soulful leader podcast. This
is Stephanie and I'm here withMaren and I'm really excited to
talk about resiliency. And Iknow we have talked maybe a
little bit about resiliency inthe past, but I always like the
word because it reminds me ofre-silence and how I need to be
more silent. And I justrecently, because, you know, so
(01:04):
much comes up when when you'resilent. I mean, it's amazing
people people say you know,Stephanie, you talk a lot, like
Yeah, but I have a lot ofsilence too. But it's not really
silence. Because it's internallyI'm like talking a lot inside
myself to myself, hey, self. AndI think back to the silence or
(01:24):
resilience, I think ofresilience very differently.
Growing up I was I was prettymuch told that resilience was
like being the Rock ofGibraltar, like you know, you're
tough as nails, you're nothingnothing can crack you like you
are just tougher than tough. Sothe Webster dictionary, the
(01:45):
actually this is the OxfordDictionary. Resilience is the
capacity to with stand or torecover quickly from
difficulties, toughness,remarkable resilience of so many
institutions. Sounds veryconcrete, doesn't it? Like very,
like the Rock of Gibraltar. Verytough. It does. Yeah.
Maren Oslac (02:09):
It also sounds like I mean, resiliency is this hot
topic right now, in inbusinesses and families. And
like, it's like, that's theideal when I see people
marketing is like, increase yourresiliency. And
Stephanie Allen (02:28):
So that what?
So we can keep on handling morepandemics? Like what! Is there
another way?
Maren Oslac (02:36):
it really is, I think that most people do think
of it like that, of increase mytoughness so that I can handle
it, so that I'm ready, so thatyou- and I'm going to tear apart
the sentence that I just usedof, there is a difference
between handling something, andbeing ready for something. And
(02:59):
for me, resilience is aboutbeing able to handle it. It is
not - where you and I are goingwith resilience is more of being
present to the future that wantsto happen. So that that's where
now I'm ready. Because I amaware of the conversation, I'm
(03:20):
in the conversation with life.
And it doesn't take me bysurprise and throw me off track.
And I'm aware of it before it'seven happening.
Stephanie Allen (03:31):
So it's preparedness. Being prepared
inwardly.
Maren Oslac (03:36):
It is an inward because you know, the whole
preparedness thing, you've gotall the you know, the people who
are hoarding food and beingprepared for life. And is that
true preparedness? versusknowing the way I think of
preparedness is the trust, isdeveloping the trust inside
(03:56):
myself that everything I needwill be there when I need it.
That's right before I need it.
Stephanie Allen (04:04):
You know, both of us, both Maren and myself,
both live in the north. And sowe are not unfamiliar with snow
storms. And so I know where Ilive, there's often a be
prepared kind of energy of, youknow, go out, get all your
groceries, get your blankets,get your generator, you know,
and it sounds like we're gonnahave an Armageddon or something
like that. But honestly, likehow much yes, we need to be
(04:27):
prepared in the outer world.
Absolutely. But I love whatyou're saying is like the
internal like, there are thingsthat are going to happen, that
you cannot be outwardly preparedfor.
Maren Oslac (04:38):
You have no idea it's coming.
Stephanie Allen (04:40):
You have no idea is coming. But there are
Maren Oslac (04:41):
Like a pandemic.
Stephanie Allen (04:42):
That's right.
But there's things inwardly thatwe can do that no matter what
happens in the outer world onecan not only, because you know
the second definition ofresilience, by the way is the
ability of a substance or anobject to spring back into shape
elasticity I'm even going totranscend that one too, because
I don't want to just bouncearound and bounce back. And but
(05:04):
yet, it's so interesting becauseto bounce back or have that
elasticity is very differentthan the toughness of the first
definition of resiliency. Sothey're two totally different
things. One is tough one ispliable, or, you know, soft,
really. And what if there was amiddle way, which I see as a
(05:27):
mandorla, mandorla is imagining,taking two circles, when you
know, two separate circles, andthen blending them together,
which is actually the marriagerings. Like when you think of a
figure eight, you think of thetwo symbol of the Rings coming
together. And it's that space inbetween, that's actually a
spiritual practice that I'vedone is that, you know, you
(05:48):
take, I want this, and I wantthat, or this is happening in my
outer world, but this is what'shappening in my inner world. So
it's like you're taking twoopposites, male, female, right?
Wrong, Good, bad, whatever. Andyou merge them together. And you
leave a space where the twocircles overlap. And that space
(06:10):
is to me resiliency. To me, it'sthat space where you drop in.
And because that's a space wherespirit guides us. And that would
be like the cocoon, right? Likethe caterpillar and the
butterfly. And that middleharmonious place is the cocoon,
which is the space of which,where, what wants to happen. And
(06:31):
that's where I want to beprepared, is to be open.
Because, yeah, I mean, there'sthings that you'll never be able
to outwardly prepare for, oreven figure out or even know
what's going to happen. So it'sa very different perspective of
resiliency that I have.
Maren Oslac (06:53):
When I heard your second definition of the bounce
back the elasticity, it's like,I don't want to bounce back, I
want to bounce forward.
Yeah, I love that.
I don't want to go back to who Iwas, whatever it is, that's
coming through whatever the nextchallenge is, I want to
(07:15):
incorporate it, I want tointegrate it into who I'm
becoming and move forward fromthere. And the the the two
separate definitions, what cameup for me and I love that the
it's almost like a Venn diagram,right, the overlapping place
where everything comes together.
And instead of filling it,leaving it, that's the
(07:38):
difference for me, when betweenyou, like a Venn diagram, that
little space is filled with allthe things that are related to
everything. Whereas if I canleave that space open for
inspiration for spirit andin-spir-ation right? in-spirit,
Spirit inside of me, then thatis the preparedness that is the
(08:01):
place where from which I canintegrate what's coming in
what's happened in the past. Andwhat's the incoming from the
future.
Stephanie Allen (08:14):
Yes, because I think a lot of people look at
resiliency of as a way, like wesaid, bouncing back, going back
to the old way or returning towhat was those kinds of things,
it's more of a reaction, ratherthan an opportunity of a
responsiveness to evolve intosomething you didn't even know
(08:34):
possible.
Maren Oslac (08:35):
Right? So how do I get back to what we had? Because
it was so great. Instead ofmaybe this is happening for a
reason to take me forward intosomething that's even better?
Stephanie Allen (08:46):
Yeah, yeah, that we're being pulled.
Maren Oslac (08:48):
I think about that, with the pandemic. And one of
the things one of there's somany, it was hard. And there was
a lot of challenges that cameout for people, including for
me, like losing my business. AndI also look at the layers and
the layers and the layers thatadvanced because of how much we
(09:11):
learned as a culture as a peopleand as individuals, right, to
move us forward and out of ourold way of doing things.
Stephanie Allen (09:21):
And that requires space. You know, it
requires space and I'm gonna, Ilove that, you're right. I mean,
instead of judging something,because, you know, some people
thought it was amazing. It wasso great. And other people found
it was so hard. It was sohorrible. Like there seems to be
there's your mandorla right,those two circles, there's two
opposing views or, you know, twodifferent perspectives. But
(09:43):
ultimately, when they cometogether, there was a space
that's made and how do so how dowe make space? Well, we think of
spring cleaning, and you go inand you clean out your closets,
you clean out your drawers, youclean out the garbage, you clean
up the things that don't call toyou anymore, and there's space
now. in that Space, most of usgo, I love the cleanliness of
(10:03):
the spaciousness that happens.
Right? We love nature becausethere's space. And it is filled.
Like, you know, it will befilled. How many times have we,
like taken aback say, we'regoing traveling. I mean, go,
Yeah, I want to travel and allyou're allowed to take is a
carry on. That's it. And to beable to pack in that carry on
(10:26):
everything that you need, youknow, some people are panicking.
Other people go, Oh, I like thechallenge of being able to do
that. You know, but if I said,Okay, that's one, that's one
scenario, but scenario two islike, Okay, now you can take as
many suitcases as you want.
People fill that space, we dothat. We often go, oh, I can
(10:48):
take anything and it doesn'tcost me anything. And yeah,
sure. Okay, I'll bring that andthe kitchen, saying I'll bring
it all.
Maren Oslac (10:54):
Well, that's like the difference of like, when you
drive someplace versus when youfly someplace.
Stephanie Allen (10:59):
Exactly, yes.
Right, you fit way more in yourcar
Maren Oslac (11:01):
my god, I, I pack my freaking car, I might need
this. And I might need that.
Well, I have the room for it.
Stephanie Allen (11:08):
Most of the times, we don't need that. And
that's kind of that preparednessof like, Oh, great. I can drive
I can prepare, I can take somuch more than what I could take
than if I was flying. But youknow, that's simply not always
true. It's really It's insideourselves. And so how do we
clear out? That's how we clearin the outer world. But how do
we clear in the internal world?
And so when I think ofresiliency, I think it's a time
(11:29):
to actually stop and clean outthe itty bitty shitty committee
that's taking up space in there.
We clean that out, we clean outthe emotions. So when I think of
different levels, physically, wecan clean out Yeah, well, that's
obvious. Mentally, there's youritty bitty shitty committee
(11:53):
emotionally, because every ittybitty shitty committee is going
to have an emotion attached toit. So there's fear, there's
hate, there's sadness, there'slonging, there's depression,
there's overwhelm. Yeah, there'soverwhelmed with all of these
emotional states, or reactionsor feelings that are in there,
that are also we tend to like, Idon't like the nasty ones, like
(12:16):
get rid of those ones. Let'sjust keep on going. But Rumi,
the great mystical poet, Sufipoet, said, You know, this human
being is a guest house, everyday a new arrival, a meanness, a
sadness, a temporary, you know,emotion that comes in, cleans us
out, sometimes empty of all ourfurniture. And then, as he goes
(12:37):
on in the poem is like, youknow, welcome each one of them
is a secret guest, because theymay be clearing you out for some
new delight. And when I sayresiliency, it's sometimes
sitting in the uncomfortabilityof being in that
uncomfortability. And justgoing, you know, I, I've reached
(13:00):
my limit, I've reached my max,maybe I need to sit here and
feel what that's like, so thatit's clearing me out. And that
means to actually emote energyin motion, emotion, that's the
same word. Sometimes we need tohave a good cry, or we need to,
you know, be angry and write outa letter and then burn it or
something, these are allactually really great practices.
(13:23):
Or sometimes we need to pick upthe phone and talk to someone
and just tell them how afraid weare just to have someone hold
space for us to really processbecause when we do that, when we
can really release that, to methat's resiliency, in a new way
rather than a reaction to but toas a responsiveness.
Maren Oslac (13:45):
I think that's so powerful. And I think about when
I've had the opportunity in mylife, to have one of those
really deep cries, or to evenhave somebody hold space so that
I can vent my anger. Or like Idid some anger management stuff
(14:08):
when I was little when I wasyounger, I shouldn't say that,
when I was younger, when I wasin my 20s and when the anger
would come up, I would literallytake a pillow and punch it or I
would go outside with a sledgehammer and literally pound the
ground. You know, I I physicallylet it go. And every time those
(14:28):
things have happened, or thatI've I've chosen that path to do
something actively, cry or ventor pound or whatever, in a
conscious, like, I'm going to dothis consciously in this moment.
Just like I'm going to clean outmy closet today. Right.
(14:50):
Afterwards, there is thislightness, there is this space.
There is this moment of like ah
Stephanie Allen (14:59):
Ah, and there's silence. Re silence. That's to
me what resilience really istrying to call us is to have
more silence inside for morespace for what? What the divine,
what spirit, what our soul istrying to speak to us with, to
(15:20):
guide us. And to empty us out ofall the old itty bitty shitty,
and the stuff that is beenstuffed in there from maybe your
life, maybe even lives that youinherited from your genetic
line, who knows. There's a, wecarry a lot. And often we carry
(15:42):
a lot, not just for ourselves,we're carrying our loved ones
we're carrying for more thanjust even those that we know.
Maren Oslac (15:49):
Yeah. There are two things that I was thinking
about, as you were talking, oneof them is, at the beginning of
the conversation, you said, youknow, oftentimes people say,
Stephanie, you talk so much. Andthen you said, Well, I also have
silence. And inside Stephanie isstill talking.
Stephanie Allen (16:06):
Yeah, she never stops.
Maren Oslac (16:07):
And yet she does, here's what I know about you, is
that she does because you've hada practice of becoming present.
And when you're present, theretruly is a silence that allows
for spirit to step in and talkbecause we are able to silence
(16:32):
the itty, bitty, shittycommittee and that internal
voice and the judgments and allof that stuff. And there's some,
there is a silence beyond it, inwhich Spirit speaks,
Stephanie Allen (16:43):
you are making a very good point, because I
often will work with people whowill say I just I want to be
guided, I want to have moreinner guidance. Like you're
going to need silence for that.
And I think in our currentparadigm of world, we want to
change the narrative. So if it'sa disempowering narrative inside
yourself of like, the itty bittyshitty committee is like, Oh,
(17:04):
I'm not good enough. I'm notloved. I'm, you know, or I'm
amazing, I'm just super awesome.
Like, it's over the top theother way, we try to either
temperate or flip it, like weturn it into another narrative.
And that there's never anysilence, until we can actually
emote it and make space. Andthen, and it is a practice of
(17:30):
absolutely practicing presence.
Like just literally sitting andfocusing on nothing, no thing
that is a practice. It is not
Maren Oslac (17:44):
So the second thing that I was thinking about, and
easy.
this is going to relate directlyto that is everybody processes
differently. And one of the waysthat you process is verbally. So
when it seems like you'retalking a lot, it's because in
(18:05):
order to process the world, youwould do it verbally. And not
everybody does. So for those ofus, and I I'm not, I don't
process verbally. So for thoseof us that don't process
verbally, it often feels likeoh, my god, does she ever shut
up? Right. And now that Iunderstand, and I know that
(18:28):
that's who you are. And that'show you process the world at
this, there's three levels thatwe process, the world at and
that that interaction with theworld level, that top level, it
allows me to be present to youdifferently. It allows me to let
(18:49):
you talk and find the nuggets.
And for me, I don't processverbally verbal is the way that
I connect to spirit. So thethree levels is there's a way
that you interact with theworld. There's a shuttle piece,
meaning there's a there's a waythat you take what's going on in
the world, and you bring it toyour deep self, and then your
(19:13):
deep self comes back andinteracts with the world. And
then there's the way that youinteract with your deep self,
this deep layer.
Stephanie Allen (19:22):
So like a great visualization would be like
imagining somebody standingabove ground. And then you have
flatland that you're standingout and then there's this
underground that is underneathlike deep underneath the soil or
your soul right? And so many
Maren Oslac (19:38):
And there's an elevator that goes back and
forth.
Stephanie Allen (19:41):
That shuttles between the two exactly kind of
like a mind a shaft, you know, amine or a mind shaft either way.
So you can look at that and andI love what you're saying. Yeah,
I tend to have to verbalize itso I can hear it. And I, and my
shuttle, actually the shuttlethat goes back and forth is more
feeling it. So when I'm talking,and I hear it, I am feeling it
(20:06):
in my lips, and I'm feeling itin my body, which helps me then
drop in to that deep soil, adeep underground part of myself,
which is visual. And that'swhere I'll get the guidance. Now
that's, that's the way I'mstacked, everyone's stacked
differently. We have differentdifferent attributes. And I
think it's just fabulous of whatyou're saying, as yours is more
(20:29):
of the visuals. So as you know,you'll see it visually.
Maren Oslac (20:33):
So for me, the way that I'm stacked is that I
processed the world throughfeelings. So I, my, my top
level, the part of me thatstands on top of the earth is
very tactile, and I process theworld through my feelings. And
then the shuttle, for me isvisual. So I can picture
(20:55):
something. And that takes me tomy deep underground, which is
auditory. So I hear guidancereally deeply. And oftentimes,
it doesn't make it back up untilI can actually see it, like so
in order to get the informationfrom my deep self, I have to
picture something, I usepictures and images and then it
(21:18):
brings it to a feeling level.
And then the way I process theworld is through through
feelings, through tactile, soyou've got emotional feelings,
but you also have like actualtouching. That's, you know, one
of the things that I do in lifeis I dance and I move through
life. And before I danced, Iswam there, there is a movement
that helps me to process theworld, the way that talking
(21:39):
helps you to process the world,I have to move to process the
world.
Stephanie Allen (21:45):
So there's a we're speaking of is Dr.
Marcova's work from the I thinkit's called Open Mind. Yeah, her
book, and it's wonderful. And ifyou're interested in that her
book is fabulous, especially ifnot just for teachers, or you
know, being a leader in that wayof trying to communicate ways
but even in relationships,understanding somebody else's
(22:07):
mode, it's so helpful.
Maren Oslac (22:10):
It's amazing,
Stephanie Allen (22:10):
and it's also helpful for yourself, if you are
looking at deepening your yourskill development, your mastery,
even with yourself or selfawareness, to be able to use
those middle modes, because if Ijust stay in verbal all the
time, I don't go deep. I need toactually connect it with my
kinesthetic mode. So I've got todance it, I've got to, I've got
(22:31):
to work out I've got to do yoga,I've got to pick it up and feel
it i i need to feel my emotions.
That's what shuttles me into allof a sudden all see what needs
to happen. Yeah,
Maren Oslac (22:44):
like you said, so many people want to hear their
guidance more and be more guidedand be. And this is one of the
tools that's out there for us iswe I think we all understand
that everybody learns a littlebit differently, right? We've
talked about the visual,auditory and kinesthetic ways
that people learn. We justhaven't talked about how they're
(23:07):
stacked. And that's, you knowwhat, I think that it'd be great
for us to do a whole podcast onthis. So I think that that's
something that we will plan forour future.
Stephanie Allen (23:18):
I love it. So in the voice and the body and in
the seeing of resiliency. We'regoing to do a little, a few more
series on this and talk a littlebit more about how it means to
be re silenced and resilient,and some practices to be able to
use your modes.
Maren Oslac (23:38):
Yeah, and really deepening the conversation with
resiliency being that, to betruly resilient, we are in
conversation with spirit, withlife, with what wants to happen.
Redefining it. Thank you so muchfor joining us today. We are
super excited about where thewhere this is taking us and
(24:00):
we'll hope We hope you'll joinus for our future podcasts on
resiliency. You can find us onour website, the soulful leader
podcast.com and on social media,YouTube, Facebook and LinkedIn
under the soulful leaders. Seey'all next week.
Stephanie Allen (24:26):
And that wraps up another episode of the
soulful leader podcast with yourhost, Stephanie Allen
Maren Oslac (24:32):
and Maren Oslac.
Thank you for listening. Ifyou'd like to dive deeper, head
over to our website at thesoulful leader podcast.com.
Stephanie Allen (24:42):
Until next time,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!