January 13, 2026 • 23 mins
Law firm owner mindset isn't something they teach in law school. Deidra went from homeless to running a thriving family law firm.
Pretty wild how she got there. After leaving a big firm and spending three years in seminary school (yeah, she thought she'd become a pastor), nobody would hire her back. So she did what any law firm entrepreneur with the right mindset would do—she sat in courtrooms every single day with a notebook, relearning how to litigate from scratch.
Deidra then started her firm on $60K in public defender contracts. She hired before she felt ready and paid herself less than her first associate. That's the law firm owner mindset shift most of us miss completely.
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📄 CHAPTERS
0:00 - Law Firm Owner Mindset: From Homeless to Thriving Practice
2:10 - Why She Built a Fathers Rights Niche (Personal Story)
3:48 - Leaving Law for Seminary: The Unexpected Detour
5:00 - The Notebook Strategy: Relearning Law From Scratch
16:05 - First Hire When Income Was Zero: The Sacrifice Play
17:33 - High School Dropout to Attorney: The Full Backstory
20:01 - LSAT Score of 121: How She Still Got Into Law School
22:40 - "Tell Me I Can't": The Mindset That Built Everything
----------------------
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Deidrestarted her firm after not having a job
and sitting in courtrooms for months.
Reteaching herself how to be an attorney.
She was homeless at one time.
She was without income,and that perseverance and spirit
allowed her to grow her firminto a thriving family
(00:20):
law firm in the Indianapolis area.
You're not going to want to miss this one.
Welcome back to the Sterling FamilyLaw Show,
the podcast designed to help familylaw firm owners build the firm
and the practice of their dreams.
I'm your host, Tyler. Dolph.
(00:41):
I'm also the CEO of our law firm,focused marketing agency, Rocket Clicks,
that was born out of our own law firm,Sterling Lawyers,
that has grown to over 27 attorneysand $18 million in revenue Today
we continue our law firm on our series,and I speak with Deidre,
who is truly inspiring.
She worked at a large law firm.
(01:04):
She then left and went to seminary schooland was thinking of becoming a preacher
and serving the Lord, and then decidedto build her own practice.
After having a lot of chance encountersand amazing events that happened to her.
Her story is truly inspiring.
These are.
Thank you so much for being with us today.
We are excited to learn moreabout you and your law firm.
(01:27):
Could you,introduce yourself to our audience
and then also give us a little historyon your firm?
Yeah, absolutely.
My name is Deidre Haynes.
I have a family law.
Law firm exclusively family law.
We focus on fathers rights. 90.
About 95% of our clientelewould be fathers, husbands.
(01:47):
The male species.
We do represent women.
Of course.
We don't discriminate.
We are, a house full of women.
We only have one male, employee.
He's one of our attorneys.
But we are a housestrong of women who represent men,
so that they have an opportunityto see and spend time with their children.
(02:08):
Yeah.
Located out of Indianapolis, Indiana.
That is awesome.
Why did you decide to goafter husbands and fathers?
Yeah, sure.
I never knew my biological father.
Growing up, I didn't meet himuntil I was, like, 41, 42 years of age.
And because of that, I went througha lot of rejection and abandonment issues.
(02:28):
And so I know as a little girland even growing up into my adulthood,
how the importance of a fatherbeing in their children's lives
because of what I experience.
And so I said, you know, when I wasI got a law school, I was going to be able
to fight for those baby girlsor baby boys.
So they won't have to experiencewhat I had to experience.
amazing. It's, Thank you.
(02:50):
that you've been able to turnthat kind of difficult past into something
positive for future generations.
Yeah, Which absolutely.
really passionate about here.
So I commend you for that.
Take me back to the beginning.
You mentioned when you graduatedlaw school. You want to do this?
So did you start yourfirm right out of law school?
I did not, right out of law school.
I went and worked for, a large law firmand, worked for bars and Thornburg
(03:13):
in Indianapolis, Indiana,which was one of the largest law firms
at that time, in Indianapolis.
And I did employment discriminationduring that time.
I just felt like, I really wanted to bein the courtroom and and fighting.
But as we all know, new graduatesdo not get in the courtroom.
(03:34):
And, it was killing me every day.
So I did resign from, that position andstarted working for the state of Indiana.
Well, that was a little differentbecause it was administrative law.
And so, of course,I still wasn't getting in the courtroom.
And then I thoughtI just gave up on law altogether.
Surprisingly I did.
I stopped practicing law for three yearsand went to theology school,
(03:56):
decided that I want to be a pastorand just fight for Jesus.
So, Idid go to theology school for two years.
I did not graduate from theology schoolbecause I figured, the saints
they just didn't want to.
I just didn't want to act. Right.
So if I was if I was going to dealwith people
who didn't want to act right,I might as well deal with clients.
(04:17):
Who's going to pay me?
Oh my goodness.
What a journey.
Yeah. Absolutely.
did you decide okay, nowI'm going to start the law firm.
Yeah.
So, after I dropped out of,theology school, I decided, well,
I should probably go back into the law,but I was out for three years,
so I was submitting my resume.
(04:38):
And, of course, there's this huge gap,which is not a good look on a resume.
And so no one would hire me.
So I decided, well,you know what I'm going to do?
I'm going to go back into the courtroom.
I'm just going to sit thereso I can learn the law.
Right?
Because I really had to learn it.
And so what I did wasI got up every morning faithfully,
as if it was my full time job.
(05:00):
And I went to the courtroomand held in the Hamilton County,
which is Noblesville, Indiana.
And I sat thereand I would sit there with a notebook
and I would take notes and I would watch,you know, the prosecutor,
I would watch the defense attorney.
And I was retraining myselfhow to litigate.
But at that time,I was noticing something.
(05:21):
And what I was noticing isthat there was no African-American lawyers
in this particular countywho were representing African-American
or Brown people.
So I began to handwritea note to the law firm administrator,
I mean, at the law firm.
But the courthouse administrator,and told them what I, what I saw,
what I noticed, and asked themif they need a contract attorney
(05:44):
to assist their public defendersor even private attorneys.
I was open to to do the job and,immediately walked it upstairs.
Didn't know I was handing that letterto the head court
administrator and,got a text message from him.
And he said, you know what?
If this is the young ladywho shows up in court five,
(06:07):
which is just inthe jurors court every day,
I want you to come back upstairs.
I think I have something for you.
And I got a private contract that day,and it wasn't much.
I think it was maybe, if I'm not mistaken,somewhere between 25 to $30,000.
Right.
But at that time, I was at zero income,so anything would help.
(06:29):
And so, what happened?
Tyler, is I decided let's trythis same concept in Marion County.
The Marion County is in Indianapolis,which is our our mega county, right?
Indianapolis, Indiana. Marion County.
Now, I couldn't use the same argument,in regards to no diversity,
(06:49):
because that is a very diverse county.
But I wrote Bill Hill, Bob Hill,he was the chief public defender
in the public defender's agency.
And, you know, I told him, listen,I am going into private practice,
and if you have any contract work,I would be more than happy to assist.
(07:11):
Now, there was a little twistwith that particular contract,
which I did getis because that contract was in 40 family
law court only dealing with child support.
So I had a HamiltonCounty contract, Delaware criminal law
and a family law contract. Dealing what?
Just child support.
And so I think they offered mesomewhere between 2530 as well.
(07:33):
And so now I have $60,000to start my law firm.
And I did that.
And that's really how I started,a law firm under private practice. And,
that it started from thereand eventually gave those two contracts
back because my private practice itselfstarted really growing, and
I really wanted to focus on family law.
(07:53):
I really love that part of it, of the law.
I was just thinking about, likeyou saying. Okay, it doesn't matter.
I'm just gonna wake up every dayand I'm going to go to court.
I'm going to listen.
I'm going to learn, like, the dedicationand sacrifice that that takes
is, is something that I think,people don't understand, like what
(08:13):
it takes to really be a true entrepreneur.
And that's the sacrifice and the timeand all the things.
I love that.
Thank you. Yeah.
You're welcome.
So you start your own firm, you Yeah.
these contracts, and then you start,you know, getting more and more leads.
(08:34):
What was it like in those early days?
Because you're learninghow to lead your own business
that you haven't done in the past?
Were there some fun kind of lessonslearned there?
Oh, absolutely. It was, it was.
It was horrible, actually, because,I had forgotten how to practice law.
Right.
I was already kind of new in the law,new graduate and things of that sort.
(08:55):
But what I did learn is that I was nevera person who was afraid to ask questions.
And I was never afraid to be mentored.
So during that journey,I made sure that I got a lot of mentors,
and I got a lot of coaches, on my side.
So if it was a simplehow do I draft an appearance?
I was not afraid to say,I know this is simple.
(09:18):
I know as an attorney I should knowhow to do this, but I do not.
And so I didn't have to reinvent the wheelbecause I was able to humble myself
to ask for the assistance.
And because of that, I grew quickly.
Because what individuals don't realize isthat people really do like to help people.
You just have to open up your mouthand ask if you if you ask a question.
(09:41):
Always say you have notbecause you not is a biblical scripture,
but it is absolutely the truth.
And, I grew by many mentors and coacheshelping me along the way.
That is the number oneoverwhelming piece of advice
that we get on this showevery week is that you just have to ask.
You got to be willing to be to be humbleenough to to just ask.
(10:05):
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Absolutely.
That is that was a big part of the growth.
Yeah. That's really awesome.
So what about on the businessside of things?
What did you learn aboutbeing an entrepreneur,
or putting systems in place,or realizing that you got to,
you know, do billing and ask peoplefor money and payables and all that?
(10:26):
Well I learned that fromactually I learned that from Bob Hill,
who was the former public,chief public defender in Marion County.
Indianapolis, Indiana. He sat me down.
And he said, listen, I want you to be ableto put a 30, 33 and up there
for your tax, for your operating accountand for yourself as well.
(10:47):
Right.
And so he sat me down to teach me just,the very minimum, knowledge
that I needed to be an entrepreneur.
And I did that.
I did that until I felt like there'ssomething greater out there.
And when I realizedthat there was something greater,
I knew I had to go to the next level withactually probably paying an organization
(11:07):
to teach me how to be an entrepreneur,because we don't learn that in law school.
And most lawyers arenot entrepreneurs,
and they learned that very quickly.
I was both,and became very successful at it, but
not because I was a brainiac,but because I knew how to listen,
take the information that my coachesand my mentors gave me and to apply it.
(11:30):
And so, I believe it was and,about four years ago, I discovered
this organization called SMB, and I joinedwith Andy Stickle and Bill Houser.
And I'm sure if you know them or not,but they I saw a Facebook ad,
that was scrolling on Facebookthat we can help,
(11:51):
law firms grow into multi-milliondollar law firms.
And, you know,I didn't have a lot of money, right?
But that seminar, that WebExwas just a dollar, so I had a dollar.
And that was thethe first roadmap to my success.
And I attended that seminar forit was a five day seminar,
(12:13):
and I thought that they were going to diveright into how to grow the law firm.
But they didn't.
The first three days, Tylerwas all about mindset.
Now I am frustrated right now.
It's not like I had a lot to dobecause I didn't have a lot of clients.
I'm like, get to the money.
I'm on herebecause I want to know about the money.
And I thinkI said something to Bill Houser
(12:35):
and he said, it'sjust you're never going to get money
if you don't knowhow to change your mindset.
And the first three dayswas really about changing the mindset
on how to grow the grow your law firm,how to bill, how to ask for money,
and how to grow your your firmby implementing people into your firm.
Which was one of the things he told me,is that
(12:57):
you will have to hire beforeyou think you need it.
I did not listen the first timeand I was so overwhelmed.
But I've been with them for yearsand I've been doing it ever since.
Yeah. It's so great.
And so it's really it was, firsthaving the courage to ask for help finding
a mentor or someone who's been there, donethat, even if it's dumb and easy.
Or you should already know it.
(13:19):
Yeah.
graduating and say,okay, now I need a program.
Yes. Yes.
And that program that they provided for mewas business
training, entrepreneur training.
And also marketing.
So I didn't have to do my own marketing.
And many lawyers do their own marketing,which takes away from them
growing the firm.
And so they taught meSMB taught me how to work on the business
instead of in the business.
(13:42):
Because, you know, the first two yearsI was still I still had a caseload,
I was still litigating,I was still hiring,
I was doing everything right,and I didn't really have a solid team,
but they taught mehow to develop a solid team,
how not only to invest in myself,my personal growth,
but also to invest in the individualsthat I wanted to help grow the firm.
(14:02):
So, for example, I have a,an individual
now she's the CEO of the law firm, butshe started with me just as a paralegal,
and she climbed the rope with me.
And so I had to put her through,with my own money.
Of course,I had to put her through training to,
so she can sit around like mindedpeople up close.
(14:23):
And she did that.
And we just startedgrowing the firm together.
That's so great.
Hey, family law firm leaders.
My partner, Tony Karl'sjust released his book where he lays bare
our precise blueprint for growingsterling lawyers from 0 to 17 million.
This is the blueprintthat we still use daily.
And Tony explains it in very simple terms.
(14:46):
The truth is, this is not simple to do.
Success requires and demands hard work.
But if you have the patienceand the work ethic to do
it, your family, law firm will succeed.
At whatpoint during your journey
did you decide to, like,let go of the reins a little bit and hire
your kind of next attorney?
(15:09):
Yeah.
It was about a year and a halfinto my journey where, because I have you.
I still had the private contracts,with the Hamilton County
Public Defender Agency and the, Well,they don't have an agency.
They just have private, private attorneys.
I'm sorry,but I also also had the Marion County
public Defender contractand private clients that were coming in.
(15:32):
And so the caseload was just too heavy.
I knew I couldn't do it all.
And at that time, I hire, my firstattorney, and she's still with me.
She's a stellar.
I like to call her little Deidre,but she has a spin on how she litigate.
And her name is Stephanie Colombo, and,I took her under my wing.
And at that time, many people don't know,but I was making less than her.
(15:53):
I didn't pay a lot.
Because I didn't have a lot to to pay her.
And she.
Never mind metelling how much I started or off what?
I think it was, like $40,000 or something.
Very, very low.
But I settled down.
I said, I said, Columbo, if you trust meand helped me grow the firm,
I promise you that as the firm grows,your salary will grow.
(16:16):
And at the time, I needed her,And she needed me.
And so we entered into thisthis friendship,
colleague type experiencewhere she began to work with me
and every little dime that I could get,although my income was almost zilch.
She was she was thebig money maker at the firm at the time,
and she didn't know it, but she was.
(16:36):
But those are some of the thingsthat I had to learn,
that I had to sacrifice my own incomeso that I can bring in help
and it's been such a successful.
And she's one of our top litigators.
We give all of our hard cases to her.
And she'sI mean, she's still teaching me things.
You mean because I have gottenout of the practice of law,
and just operating the law firm,so she's a rock star.
(16:58):
But I did that about a yearand a half into my private practice.
Your story is one of sacrifice.
One of.
Yeah. to figure it outand I'm not going to make any money.
And that's okaybecause I I'm betting on the outcome.
You always kind of have that mindset.
Like I think that's that's very uniqueand not something you hear every day.
Right.
Some most of the timeif someone's starting a business, it's
(17:19):
because like they want to make moneyand they have to make money.
And so they do what it takes to do that.
It feels like you take on a much more longrange approach.
Well, you know, I've always been like thisbecause I was a high school dropout.
I was a homeless teenage mother.
I was in and out of juvenile detention.
I have a criminal record.
Because I was always fighting.
Because I was very angry.
(17:40):
Because I didn't knowmy biological father.
So I was so angry towards the world.
I lost my scholarship for college,and so I became homeless again.
So I always had that go getter attitudethat whatever
I need to do to overcome povertyor being homeless,
I'm going to put, you know, the metalto the pedal, and I'm not going to lift
(18:01):
my foot off that gas tankuntil I get where I need to go.
And so I learned how to do all of thisthrough adversity.
And I wouldn't take my,you know, my my story back.
Being homeless or being in juveniledetention or even being in, incarcerated.
Never been to prison.
Let me make that clearfor all of your listeners.
But I did go to jailbecause I was a fighter.
(18:23):
But, you know, Tyler,what I did during that process
is that I really did depend on my faith,and I.
I remember one day I was in,a homeless shelter with Salvation
Army homeless shelterlocated in Peoria, Illinois.
And I sat on my cot and I told the Lord,if you teach me how to live life
according to how you want me to live,I'll promise I'll fight for you.
(18:46):
And so I learned how to fight thethe appropriate way
from out of the streetsto in the courtroom.
And I think I took that same tenacitythat I had.
I've been that bad child to the same,you know,
heart and passion and compassionthat I had.
And I just applied it the right wayand decided to fight for those who I know
needed a voice.
(19:09):
And so one of the thingsthat we always say at our, law firm
is that we are a voice for the voiceless,because that's who God was for me.
To get me back into collegeand to get me past the,
the bar examiners, because they,you know, they had to look at all of that.
You can'tyou can't expunge it if they're not,
you know, because it never happened.
So, you know, you had to be very honest.
(19:30):
And I had many professors,Professor Roy's men at IU
School of Law and, Professor Carlson,he also was a voice for me
when I wasn't a voice for myselfto help me to get into law school.
Yeah.
I'm likespeechless just thinking about everything
that you've been throughYeah, it was a struggle.
(19:53):
as a testament to your faithand to the opportunity that,
you know, all of usget and take advantage of it.
Absolutely.
Because many people don't know that,it was a struggle to get there,
you know, when you take the Lsat.
I was never a really good test taker.
Standardized test taker.
(20:15):
And so trying to get pass the Lsat,they give you 120
just to sit downto put your name on the paper.
And my Lsat score, I only scored 121.
So no law school is going to get youin the door, but 121
now looking at least 155, 160 and higher.
So I said,you know, I'm going to study again.
(20:36):
And, I did, and I got a 123.
So I just gave up.
I was like,maybe law school is not for me.
Although in my heart, Tyler, I knew thatI felt like I heard God say law school.
So I applied anyway.
And, somehowthe the individuals at the law school
decided that they would give mean opportunity to go in and,
(20:59):
you know, see if I could be successful.
And the dean of the law school,Dina Potter,
she's not the dean anymore,but her name's Angela Spada.
She caught me up one day,and she said, Deidre, I have good news.
I have bad news for you. I'm like,what could this possibly be?
(21:21):
And she said, well, the law schoolhas rejected your application.
Because of your your Lsat score.
But the Indiana Supreme Courtjustice, Randy Shepard,
he was the,the chief justice of Indiana at that time.
Overruled our decisionand decided to give you
an opportunity, but under a condition.
And that condition wasyou had to obtain at least a 2.0
(21:46):
to stay in the law school,and you'll be kicked out.
Well, that was never a problem for mebecause I graduated with honors
from Illinois State University.
I knew how to study.
I knew how to sit my butt in a chair.
And I'll study any studentin that, in that, classroom.
And so I felt like, oh,you guys messed up.
You guys gave me the lowestGPA requirement ever.
(22:06):
And, you know, I graduated with a 3.4,out of law school.
And that's when I started working forBarnes and Thornburg as well.
Yeah.
obstacle that was thrown at you,you just figured out a way around it.
So I figured out a way around, and I.
And I know that, you know,it really was to help, my faith
in God using people to say, you know,let's give this girl a chance,
(22:30):
but we're gonna put some conditions on it,and I never mind conditions.
I always like to be challenged.
In fact, Tyler, if you tell me I can dosomething, I probably would do it.
It probably took me a longertime to do it.
But if you tell me I can't do something,I'm off to the stars.
And people in your life.
(22:50):
You said it gets you like. Oh, well,I just got to tell.
I just got to do it.
I know, I tell all my friends.
Just tell me I can't do it.
And then we'll be the best law firmin the state of Indiana.
smokes. I'm so inspired.
I'm in awe of your journey andand your ability to overcome challenges.
I'm so grateful that you gave us the timeand and and the lessons today.
(23:12):
I've been thinking about themfor a long time.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you guys giving methe opportunity to speak on your podcast.
Absolutely.
Have a wonderful rest of your day.
And again,thank you so much for your time.
Deidrestarted her firm after not having a job
and sitting in courtrooms for months.
Reteaching herself how to be an attorney.
She was homeless at one time.
She was without income,and that perseverance and spirit
allowed her to grow her firminto a thriving family
(00:20):
law firm in the Indianapolis area.
You're not going to want to miss this one.
Welcome back to the Sterling FamilyLaw Show,
the podcast designed to help familylaw firm owners build the firm
and the practice of their dreams.
I'm your host, Tyler. Dolph.
(00:41):
I'm also the CEO of our law firm,focused marketing agency, Rocket Clicks,
that was born out of our own law firm,Sterling Lawyers,
that has grown to over 27 attorneysand $18 million in revenue Today
we continue our law firm on our series,and I speak with Deidre,
who is truly inspiring.
She worked at a large law firm.
(01:04):
She then left and went to seminary schooland was thinking of becoming a preacher
and serving the Lord, and then decidedto build her own practice.
After having a lot of chance encountersand amazing events that happened to her.
Her story is truly inspiring.
These are.
Thank you so much for being with us today.
We are excited to learn moreabout you and your law firm.
(01:27):
Could you,introduce yourself to our audience
and then also give us a little historyon your firm?
Yeah, absolutely.
My name is Deidre Haynes.
I have a family law.
Law firm exclusively family law.
We focus on fathers rights. 90.
About 95% of our clientelewould be fathers, husbands.
(01:47):
The male species.
We do represent women.
Of course.
We don't discriminate.
We are, a house full of women.
We only have one male, employee.
He's one of our attorneys.
But we are a housestrong of women who represent men,
so that they have an opportunityto see and spend time with their children.
(02:08):
Yeah.
Located out of Indianapolis, Indiana.
That is awesome.
Why did you decide to goafter husbands and fathers?
Yeah, sure.
I never knew my biological father.
Growing up, I didn't meet himuntil I was, like, 41, 42 years of age.
And because of that, I went througha lot of rejection and abandonment issues.
(02:28):
And so I know as a little girland even growing up into my adulthood,
how the importance of a fatherbeing in their children's lives
because of what I experience.
And so I said, you know, when I wasI got a law school, I was going to be able
to fight for those baby girlsor baby boys.
So they won't have to experiencewhat I had to experience.
amazing. It's, Thank you.
(02:50):
that you've been able to turnthat kind of difficult past into something
positive for future generations.
Yeah, Which absolutely.
really passionate about here.
So I commend you for that.
Take me back to the beginning.
You mentioned when you graduatedlaw school. You want to do this?
So did you start yourfirm right out of law school?
I did not, right out of law school.
I went and worked for, a large law firmand, worked for bars and Thornburg
(03:13):
in Indianapolis, Indiana,which was one of the largest law firms
at that time, in Indianapolis.
And I did employment discriminationduring that time.
I just felt like, I really wanted to bein the courtroom and and fighting.
But as we all know, new graduatesdo not get in the courtroom.
(03:34):
And, it was killing me every day.
So I did resign from, that position andstarted working for the state of Indiana.
Well, that was a little differentbecause it was administrative law.
And so, of course,I still wasn't getting in the courtroom.
And then I thoughtI just gave up on law altogether.
Surprisingly I did.
I stopped practicing law for three yearsand went to theology school,
(03:56):
decided that I want to be a pastorand just fight for Jesus.
So, Idid go to theology school for two years.
I did not graduate from theology schoolbecause I figured, the saints
they just didn't want to.
I just didn't want to act. Right.
So if I was if I was going to dealwith people
who didn't want to act right,I might as well deal with clients.
(04:17):
Who's going to pay me?
Oh my goodness.
What a journey.
Yeah. Absolutely.
did you decide okay, nowI'm going to start the law firm.
Yeah.
So, after I dropped out of,theology school, I decided, well,
I should probably go back into the law,but I was out for three years,
so I was submitting my resume.
(04:38):
And, of course, there's this huge gap,which is not a good look on a resume.
And so no one would hire me.
So I decided, well,you know what I'm going to do?
I'm going to go back into the courtroom.
I'm just going to sit thereso I can learn the law.
Right?
Because I really had to learn it.
And so what I did wasI got up every morning faithfully,
as if it was my full time job.
(05:00):
And I went to the courtroomand held in the Hamilton County,
which is Noblesville, Indiana.
And I sat thereand I would sit there with a notebook
and I would take notes and I would watch,you know, the prosecutor,
I would watch the defense attorney.
And I was retraining myselfhow to litigate.
But at that time,I was noticing something.
(05:21):
And what I was noticing isthat there was no African-American lawyers
in this particular countywho were representing African-American
or Brown people.
So I began to handwritea note to the law firm administrator,
I mean, at the law firm.
But the courthouse administrator,and told them what I, what I saw,
what I noticed, and asked themif they need a contract attorney
(05:44):
to assist their public defendersor even private attorneys.
I was open to to do the job and,immediately walked it upstairs.
Didn't know I was handing that letterto the head court
administrator and,got a text message from him.
And he said, you know what?
If this is the young ladywho shows up in court five,
(06:07):
which is just inthe jurors court every day,
I want you to come back upstairs.
I think I have something for you.
And I got a private contract that day,and it wasn't much.
I think it was maybe, if I'm not mistaken,somewhere between 25 to $30,000.
Right.
But at that time, I was at zero income,so anything would help.
(06:29):
And so, what happened?
Tyler, is I decided let's trythis same concept in Marion County.
The Marion County is in Indianapolis,which is our our mega county, right?
Indianapolis, Indiana. Marion County.
Now, I couldn't use the same argument,in regards to no diversity,
(06:49):
because that is a very diverse county.
But I wrote Bill Hill, Bob Hill,he was the chief public defender
in the public defender's agency.
And, you know, I told him, listen,I am going into private practice,
and if you have any contract work,I would be more than happy to assist.
(07:11):
Now, there was a little twistwith that particular contract,
which I did getis because that contract was in 40 family
law court only dealing with child support.
So I had a HamiltonCounty contract, Delaware criminal law
and a family law contract. Dealing what?
Just child support.
And so I think they offered mesomewhere between 2530 as well.
(07:33):
And so now I have $60,000to start my law firm.
And I did that.
And that's really how I started,a law firm under private practice. And,
that it started from thereand eventually gave those two contracts
back because my private practice itselfstarted really growing, and
I really wanted to focus on family law.
(07:53):
I really love that part of it, of the law.
I was just thinking about, likeyou saying. Okay, it doesn't matter.
I'm just gonna wake up every dayand I'm going to go to court.
I'm going to listen.
I'm going to learn, like, the dedicationand sacrifice that that takes
is, is something that I think,people don't understand, like what
(08:13):
it takes to really be a true entrepreneur.
And that's the sacrifice and the timeand all the things.
I love that.
Thank you. Yeah.
You're welcome.
So you start your own firm, you Yeah.
these contracts, and then you start,you know, getting more and more leads.
(08:34):
What was it like in those early days?
Because you're learninghow to lead your own business
that you haven't done in the past?
Were there some fun kind of lessonslearned there?
Oh, absolutely. It was, it was.
It was horrible, actually, because,I had forgotten how to practice law.
Right.
I was already kind of new in the law,new graduate and things of that sort.
(08:55):
But what I did learn is that I was nevera person who was afraid to ask questions.
And I was never afraid to be mentored.
So during that journey,I made sure that I got a lot of mentors,
and I got a lot of coaches, on my side.
So if it was a simplehow do I draft an appearance?
I was not afraid to say,I know this is simple.
(09:18):
I know as an attorney I should knowhow to do this, but I do not.
And so I didn't have to reinvent the wheelbecause I was able to humble myself
to ask for the assistance.
And because of that, I grew quickly.
Because what individuals don't realize isthat people really do like to help people.
You just have to open up your mouthand ask if you if you ask a question.
(09:41):
Always say you have notbecause you not is a biblical scripture,
but it is absolutely the truth.
And, I grew by many mentors and coacheshelping me along the way.
That is the number oneoverwhelming piece of advice
that we get on this showevery week is that you just have to ask.
You got to be willing to be to be humbleenough to to just ask.
(10:05):
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Absolutely.
That is that was a big part of the growth.
Yeah. That's really awesome.
So what about on the businessside of things?
What did you learn aboutbeing an entrepreneur,
or putting systems in place,or realizing that you got to,
you know, do billing and ask peoplefor money and payables and all that?
(10:26):
Well I learned that fromactually I learned that from Bob Hill,
who was the former public,chief public defender in Marion County.
Indianapolis, Indiana. He sat me down.
And he said, listen, I want you to be ableto put a 30, 33 and up there
for your tax, for your operating accountand for yourself as well.
(10:47):
Right.
And so he sat me down to teach me just,the very minimum, knowledge
that I needed to be an entrepreneur.
And I did that.
I did that until I felt like there'ssomething greater out there.
And when I realizedthat there was something greater,
I knew I had to go to the next level withactually probably paying an organization
(11:07):
to teach me how to be an entrepreneur,because we don't learn that in law school.
And most lawyers arenot entrepreneurs,
and they learned that very quickly.
I was both,and became very successful at it, but
not because I was a brainiac,but because I knew how to listen,
take the information that my coachesand my mentors gave me and to apply it.
(11:30):
And so, I believe it was and,about four years ago, I discovered
this organization called SMB, and I joinedwith Andy Stickle and Bill Houser.
And I'm sure if you know them or not,but they I saw a Facebook ad,
that was scrolling on Facebookthat we can help,
(11:51):
law firms grow into multi-milliondollar law firms.
And, you know,I didn't have a lot of money, right?
But that seminar, that WebExwas just a dollar, so I had a dollar.
And that was thethe first roadmap to my success.
And I attended that seminar forit was a five day seminar,
(12:13):
and I thought that they were going to diveright into how to grow the law firm.
But they didn't.
The first three days, Tylerwas all about mindset.
Now I am frustrated right now.
It's not like I had a lot to dobecause I didn't have a lot of clients.
I'm like, get to the money.
I'm on herebecause I want to know about the money.
And I thinkI said something to Bill Houser
(12:35):
and he said, it'sjust you're never going to get money
if you don't knowhow to change your mindset.
And the first three dayswas really about changing the mindset
on how to grow the grow your law firm,how to bill, how to ask for money,
and how to grow your your firmby implementing people into your firm.
Which was one of the things he told me,is that
(12:57):
you will have to hire beforeyou think you need it.
I did not listen the first timeand I was so overwhelmed.
But I've been with them for yearsand I've been doing it ever since.
Yeah. It's so great.
And so it's really it was, firsthaving the courage to ask for help finding
a mentor or someone who's been there, donethat, even if it's dumb and easy.
Or you should already know it.
(13:19):
Yeah.
graduating and say,okay, now I need a program.
Yes. Yes.
And that program that they provided for mewas business
training, entrepreneur training.
And also marketing.
So I didn't have to do my own marketing.
And many lawyers do their own marketing,which takes away from them
growing the firm.
And so they taught meSMB taught me how to work on the business
instead of in the business.
(13:42):
Because, you know, the first two yearsI was still I still had a caseload,
I was still litigating,I was still hiring,
I was doing everything right,and I didn't really have a solid team,
but they taught mehow to develop a solid team,
how not only to invest in myself,my personal growth,
but also to invest in the individualsthat I wanted to help grow the firm.
(14:02):
So, for example, I have a,an individual
now she's the CEO of the law firm, butshe started with me just as a paralegal,
and she climbed the rope with me.
And so I had to put her through,with my own money.
Of course,I had to put her through training to,
so she can sit around like mindedpeople up close.
(14:23):
And she did that.
And we just startedgrowing the firm together.
That's so great.
Hey, family law firm leaders.
My partner, Tony Karl'sjust released his book where he lays bare
our precise blueprint for growingsterling lawyers from 0 to 17 million.
This is the blueprintthat we still use daily.
And Tony explains it in very simple terms.
(14:46):
The truth is, this is not simple to do.
Success requires and demands hard work.
But if you have the patienceand the work ethic to do
it, your family, law firm will succeed.
At whatpoint during your journey
did you decide to, like,let go of the reins a little bit and hire
your kind of next attorney?
(15:09):
Yeah.
It was about a year and a halfinto my journey where, because I have you.
I still had the private contracts,with the Hamilton County
Public Defender Agency and the, Well,they don't have an agency.
They just have private, private attorneys.
I'm sorry,but I also also had the Marion County
public Defender contractand private clients that were coming in.
(15:32):
And so the caseload was just too heavy.
I knew I couldn't do it all.
And at that time, I hire, my firstattorney, and she's still with me.
She's a stellar.
I like to call her little Deidre,but she has a spin on how she litigate.
And her name is Stephanie Colombo, and,I took her under my wing.
And at that time, many people don't know,but I was making less than her.
(15:53):
I didn't pay a lot.
Because I didn't have a lot to to pay her.
And she.
Never mind metelling how much I started or off what?
I think it was, like $40,000 or something.
Very, very low.
But I settled down.
I said, I said, Columbo, if you trust meand helped me grow the firm,
I promise you that as the firm grows,your salary will grow.
(16:16):
And at the time, I needed her,And she needed me.
And so we entered into thisthis friendship,
colleague type experiencewhere she began to work with me
and every little dime that I could get,although my income was almost zilch.
She was she was thebig money maker at the firm at the time,
and she didn't know it, but she was.
(16:36):
But those are some of the thingsthat I had to learn,
that I had to sacrifice my own incomeso that I can bring in help
and it's been such a successful.
And she's one of our top litigators.
We give all of our hard cases to her.
And she'sI mean, she's still teaching me things.
You mean because I have gottenout of the practice of law,
and just operating the law firm,so she's a rock star.
(16:58):
But I did that about a yearand a half into my private practice.
Your story is one of sacrifice.
One of.
Yeah. to figure it outand I'm not going to make any money.
And that's okaybecause I I'm betting on the outcome.
You always kind of have that mindset.
Like I think that's that's very uniqueand not something you hear every day.
Right.
Some most of the timeif someone's starting a business, it's
(17:19):
because like they want to make moneyand they have to make money.
And so they do what it takes to do that.
It feels like you take on a much more longrange approach.
Well, you know, I've always been like thisbecause I was a high school dropout.
I was a homeless teenage mother.
I was in and out of juvenile detention.
I have a criminal record.
Because I was always fighting.
Because I was very angry.
(17:40):
Because I didn't knowmy biological father.
So I was so angry towards the world.
I lost my scholarship for college,and so I became homeless again.
So I always had that go getter attitudethat whatever
I need to do to overcome povertyor being homeless,
I'm going to put, you know, the metalto the pedal, and I'm not going to lift
(18:01):
my foot off that gas tankuntil I get where I need to go.
And so I learned how to do all of thisthrough adversity.
And I wouldn't take my,you know, my my story back.
Being homeless or being in juveniledetention or even being in, incarcerated.
Never been to prison.
Let me make that clearfor all of your listeners.
But I did go to jailbecause I was a fighter.
(18:23):
But, you know, Tyler,what I did during that process
is that I really did depend on my faith,and I.
I remember one day I was in,a homeless shelter with Salvation
Army homeless shelterlocated in Peoria, Illinois.
And I sat on my cot and I told the Lord,if you teach me how to live life
according to how you want me to live,I'll promise I'll fight for you.
(18:46):
And so I learned how to fight thethe appropriate way
from out of the streetsto in the courtroom.
And I think I took that same tenacitythat I had.
I've been that bad child to the same,you know,
heart and passion and compassionthat I had.
And I just applied it the right wayand decided to fight for those who I know
needed a voice.
(19:09):
And so one of the thingsthat we always say at our, law firm
is that we are a voice for the voiceless,because that's who God was for me.
To get me back into collegeand to get me past the,
the bar examiners, because they,you know, they had to look at all of that.
You can'tyou can't expunge it if they're not,
you know, because it never happened.
So, you know, you had to be very honest.
(19:30):
And I had many professors,Professor Roy's men at IU
School of Law and, Professor Carlson,he also was a voice for me
when I wasn't a voice for myselfto help me to get into law school.
Yeah.
I'm likespeechless just thinking about everything
that you've been throughYeah, it was a struggle.
(19:53):
as a testament to your faithand to the opportunity that,
you know, all of usget and take advantage of it.
Absolutely.
Because many people don't know that,it was a struggle to get there,
you know, when you take the Lsat.
I was never a really good test taker.
Standardized test taker.
(20:15):
And so trying to get pass the Lsat,they give you 120
just to sit downto put your name on the paper.
And my Lsat score, I only scored 121.
So no law school is going to get youin the door, but 121
now looking at least 155, 160 and higher.
So I said,you know, I'm going to study again.
(20:36):
And, I did, and I got a 123.
So I just gave up.
I was like,maybe law school is not for me.
Although in my heart, Tyler, I knew thatI felt like I heard God say law school.
So I applied anyway.
And, somehowthe the individuals at the law school
decided that they would give mean opportunity to go in and,
(20:59):
you know, see if I could be successful.
And the dean of the law school,Dina Potter,
she's not the dean anymore,but her name's Angela Spada.
She caught me up one day,and she said, Deidre, I have good news.
I have bad news for you. I'm like,what could this possibly be?
(21:21):
And she said, well, the law schoolhas rejected your application.
Because of your your Lsat score.
But the Indiana Supreme Courtjustice, Randy Shepard,
he was the,the chief justice of Indiana at that time.
Overruled our decisionand decided to give you
an opportunity, but under a condition.
And that condition wasyou had to obtain at least a 2.0
(21:46):
to stay in the law school,and you'll be kicked out.
Well, that was never a problem for mebecause I graduated with honors
from Illinois State University.
I knew how to study.
I knew how to sit my butt in a chair.
And I'll study any studentin that, in that, classroom.
And so I felt like, oh,you guys messed up.
You guys gave me the lowestGPA requirement ever.
(22:06):
And, you know, I graduated with a 3.4,out of law school.
And that's when I started working forBarnes and Thornburg as well.
Yeah.
obstacle that was thrown at you,you just figured out a way around it.
So I figured out a way around, and I.
And I know that, you know,it really was to help, my faith
in God using people to say, you know,let's give this girl a chance,
(22:30):
but we're gonna put some conditions on it,and I never mind conditions.
I always like to be challenged.
In fact, Tyler, if you tell me I can dosomething, I probably would do it.
It probably took me a longertime to do it.
But if you tell me I can't do something,I'm off to the stars.
And people in your life.
(22:50):
You said it gets you like. Oh, well,I just got to tell.
I just got to do it.
I know, I tell all my friends.
Just tell me I can't do it.
And then we'll be the best law firmin the state of Indiana.
smokes. I'm so inspired.
I'm in awe of your journey andand your ability to overcome challenges.
I'm so grateful that you gave us the timeand and and the lessons today.
(23:12):
I've been thinking about themfor a long time.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you guys giving methe opportunity to speak on your podcast.
Absolutely.
Have a wonderful rest of your day.
And again,thank you so much for your time.
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