January 20, 2026 • 23 mins
Lawyer to business owner—that shift changed everything for Alex. Here's why working less actually made him more money.
If you're stuck doing everything yourself, Alex's 3-box test shows you what to delegate, automate, or just eliminate. You’ll also realize why 80% good enough beats perfection, and how to stop being a worker bee in your own firm.
📲 Subscribe Now: https://www.youtube.com/@jsterlinghughes
📝 Get your FREE Law Firm Growth Guide: https://jsterlinghughes.com/
---
📄 CHAPTERS
0:00 - Law Firm Delegation: From Worker Bee to Business Leader
1:18 - Alex's Journey: Immigrant to 27-Person Firm Owner
5:36 - The 3-Box Test: Love It, Great At It, Makes Money
6:22 - Delegate, Automate, or Eliminate Framework
7:17 - Why 80% Good Enough Unlocks Law Firm Growth
14:59 - Law Firm Exit Planning: Don't Flush Your Goodwill
18:59 - Understanding Clients on a Cellular Level
21:47 - The Road Less Stupid: Where Are You Really?
----------------------
Ready to find the accountability partner you need to build your dream family law firm the same way we grew Sterling Lawyers?
Follow these steps:
1. SUBSCRIBE TO JEFF'S NEWSLETTER: https://jsterlinghughes.com/
2. BOOK A FREE 30-MINUTE AUDIT WITH US: https://rocketclicks.com/schedule-a-family-law-quick-audit/
3. CONNECT WITH US:
LinkedIn: Jeff Hughes, Tyler Dolph, & Anthony Karls,
Facebook: Jeff Hughes, Tyler Dolph, & Anthony Karls,
Instagram: Jeff Hughes, Tyler Dolph, & Anthony Karls
4. TELL US WHAT YOU WANT:
Tell us in the comments if you liked this episode and what other kinds of episodes you would like to see.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
A lot of attorneys I talk to are really focused on
duplicating themselves,expanding their law firm.
They had to make their firstimportant hire.
They had to learn how todelegate, right?
There's this whole evolution ofgoing from an entrepreneur to a
business leader.
Welcome back to the SterlingFamily Law Show.
(00:22):
I'm your host, Tyler Dolph, andI'm also the CEO of our
marketing consultancy for familylaw firms called Rocket Clicks
that was born out of our own lawfirm that we've built over the
last 10 years and have grown toover 27 attorneys, Sterling
lawyers.
Today we continue ourowner-operator series.
(00:43):
We interview Alex, who is abusiness and MA attorney in
Cleveland who has multiplebusinesses.
So maybe asking yourself, why ishe on the Sterling Family Law
Show?
Well, he has some great insightsas it relates to becoming a true
business leader and not just asolo entrepreneur, as well as
things to think about as you'reexpanding your law firm.
(01:05):
I really hope you enjoyedtoday's episode.
Alex, thank you so much for yourtime today and for joining us on
the podcast.
Really excited to hear yourstory and understand how you've
built your law firm and otherbusinesses that uh that you've
built along the way.
As we get started, give us aquick introduction, a little bit
of backstory on the attorneyside of things, and then we can
(01:27):
dive into everything else.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
Yeah, yeah.
So, Tyler, thanks for having me.
I appreciate it.
I'll give you the shortchronology of uh of my
professional career, uh, but butto get there uh a few
biographical notes.
So I'm an immigrant.
I wasn't born in this country.
Uh I was born in Moldova, uh,which, if your listeners know
where that is, that puts them inlike the 1% of the planet
(01:52):
because nobody knows whereMoldova is.
So that's next to Russia and theUkraine.
Came over when I was four.
Uh it was the 70s.
Uh my dad was an entrepreneur.
I learned how to be anentrepreneur from my dad.
Uh grew up in Cleveland.
Um, wanted to be a lawyerbecause I used to watch a show
that um I don't think you werealive when the show was on.
(02:16):
It was called LA Law.
Did you used to watch LA Law?
Uh I never watched it live, butI've heard of the show.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh I wanted to be one of thelawyers on that show.
His name was Arnie Becker.
He was actually a divorcelawyer.
Um, but uh he uh uh I wanted tobe him and I imagined myself as
a lawyer because of him, and soI went to law school, went uh to
(02:39):
went to, well, first I went tocollege on an Army ROTC
scholarship, uh law school inCleveland, worked for a large
law firm, a couple of large lawfirms after that, deployed to
Iraq with my Army Reserve unit,came back, uh, went in-house uh
for eight years to be a generalcounsel for a telecom company,
(03:01):
came out of that and started myown law firm.
That was in 2012, and I've ownedit ever since.
Uh, and so we're a full-servicebusiness law firm.
Um, since starting it, I havemerged it with another firm.
Um we have about 27 people theretotal, half of whom are lawyers.
(03:22):
Um, and we've got um clients allover the planet.
I personally um went from beingsort of a, you know, a worker
being the firm, uh, well,wearing all hats in the firm to
being more uh leadership andstrategist in the firm to really
(03:44):
just being rainmaker in the firmtoday, um, and really just kind
of focusing on being anentrepreneur.
And so we've got otherbusinesses around the firm.
One is called Cover My Six.
It helps uh uh business ownersoptimize the six relationships
that get them sued.
You know, customers, vendors,employees, shareholders, the
(04:06):
government, competitors.
Wrote a book called The LawsuitFree Company.
Uh, we've got an MA brokerage,we've got an executive
recruiting firm, and the newestcompany we have, Exit Path
Partners, helps law firms buyother law firms and helps
lawyers exit from their lawfirm.
So that is the short version.
(04:28):
That's the shit, believe it ornot, that's the short version.
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
You're a busy man.
First, thank you so much foryour service.
Uh what a path.
A lot of attorneys I talk to arereally focused on duplicating
themselves, expanding their lawfirm.
You know, they spent a lot oftime as the guy or the gal.
(04:56):
They had to make their firstimportant hire, they had to
learn how to delegate, right?
There's this whole evolution ofgoing from an entrepreneur to a
business leader.
You've done that as well asstarted additional businesses.
What do you think has allowedyou to take those leaps to um
(05:18):
delegate what you needed to sothat you could get out of the
weeds and focus on some of theseother endeavors?
SPEAKER_02 (05:24):
Yeah, great question, Tyler.
So so I'm a member of this uhgroup called Strategic Coach.
I don't know if you've ever readDan Sullivan's books, but I've
been in Strategic Coach foreight years.
Um, the foundational principleof coach is build a
self-managing company so thatyou are spending your time
(05:47):
inside of your unique ability,meaning you love what you do,
you're great at what you do, andit makes you money, right?
It checks those three boxes.
Um, if it doesn't check one ofthose three boxes, someone else
should be doing that thing, oryou should be doing it on the
weekend because it's not makingyou money.
And so through good coachingover the years, um I just, you
(06:10):
know, pretty methodicallystarted slicing off the things
in my firm that I didn't want todo.
And once I knew that it didn'tcheck all three boxes, um, your
choices are pretty simple.
You either delegate it, automateit, or eliminate it.
Okay.
And so from there, I learnedenough about myself to know that
(06:31):
I actually am uh I love and Ithink I'm pretty good at, and
I'm definitely more profitableas an entrepreneur than I am as
the litigator that I was, as thedeal lawyer that I was.
Um, I still enjoy a lot of thosethings, but I don't love them,
(06:52):
and I'm probably not great atthem.
Um and it was only throughscaling the business that I saw
how much more revenue and profitI could generate from my
organization rather than justworking in it.
SPEAKER_00 (07:10):
So I think that is the big moment of insight that I
want our listeners to hear thatas you did less in your
business, your business mademore, your business grew.
Oftentimes, as entrepreneurs, wethink that only we can do
certain things.
And as soon as we get out of theway and we accept the fact that
(07:34):
like 80% as good as I can do itis is plenty good enough, then
our businesses really start togrow and scale.
SPEAKER_02 (07:42):
Tyler, I can tell that you drank the same Kool-Aid
that I drank.
Because, you know, I rememberreally well somebody telling me,
Alex, the best entrepreneursmake more by working less.
And I remember thinking, that'sbananas.
That can't be true.
That is contrary to every kindof work ethic that you were
(08:04):
raised with, right?
And it is definitely true.
It is a hundred percent true.
Um, and it requires imagination,it requires the ability to take
risk and be comfortable withrisk, getting out of your
comfort zone, thinking like acontrarian.
So I really appreciate that youjust articulated my inner
(08:26):
monologue there.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
SPEAKER_00 (08:29):
It's uh it's something we all need to hear
again and again.
So you started delegating, youstarted taking things off your
plate.
The first uh endeavor outside ofthe law firm.
Why'd you do it?
What happened?
Tell us a story.
SPEAKER_02 (08:44):
Uh great question.
So um I started my firm in 2012,and about three years in, I
realized that I had, we were,we're, we were, we are and were
and always have been afull-service business law firm.
So that's litigation, that's uhuh corporate transactions,
employment law.
Uh we brought in family lawbecause so many of our clients
(09:08):
were needing those services andum tax, all that stuff.
Uh so I what I realized was thatwe were doing a lot of MA deals
for a small number of ourclients, and it was a lot of
repeat business.
So we saw early on who wasacquisitive, who was out there
(09:30):
looking for deals, acquiringcompanies.
And um, these were close friendsof mine and and longtime
clients.
And uh I said, hey, listen,you're out there buying other
businesses.
Why don't I and my team findbusinesses for you to buy?
And then just like you would paya recruiter or a broker, you'll
(09:52):
pay us.
And we'll do conflict waivers ifwe're also your lawyers on those
deals.
Um, and eventually, so westarted doing that.
We so basically we got firstlook at who the acquiring
companies were, and we startedleveraging that into brokerage
opportunities, and then we spunoff a whole brokerage from that.
(10:15):
And um, and then it was the samething with um executive
recruiting.
So started that company, um,Gurzburg Executive Search, um,
uh probably about two or threeyears after that.
And it was for the same reasonwe saw who was hiring and firing
a lot, you know, and we saw thatthey were paying recruiters 20,
(10:37):
30% of the first year's salary.
So we said, man, we've got greatnetworks, and I've got amazing
paralegals.
And so much of what recruitersand brokers do is um simplified
into processes and tactics thatcan be done by really good
(10:58):
paralegals.
So from a law firm, we spun offa brokerage and an executive
recruiting firm.
And then cover my six was thenext thing.
Um, and that really was justkind of like this realization
that there's only six plaintiffswho can sue a business.
So why not just attack yoursystems in your company and your
(11:22):
policies and your employeehandbooks and your contracts and
just flush out all the stuffthat's getting you sued or
that's not preventing you fromgetting sued and optimize those.
And did that turn into uh like acoaching program or how does a
great question.
So uh we wrote a book called TheLawsuit Free Company, where we
(11:44):
taught our clients how toself-implement this system.
It turned into a process insideof our law firm.
It turned into a subscriptionservice.
Um, and we are working on aseries of technology enabled
(12:05):
processes and with AI and withother automations to make cover
my six uh more scalable thanlawyers reviewing contracts for
clients and things like that.
So they're there, yes.
So it's well, and I and I andbased on what I know about you,
Tyler, and your podcast here, Ican share with your
(12:30):
entrepreneurial listeners thatyou know those of you that know
that you are more than just alawyer, that you are a strategic
thinker, a creative thinker, andan entrepreneur, um, creating
space in your mind and in yourday for generating ideas like
(12:54):
that and and for building outideas like that into new
companies is super important.
You got to create that space.
If you are um, you know, ifyou're litigating from nine to
five, you don't have that spacefive days a week, right?
You need to you need to beintentional about where where
you deploy your time and effortand energy.
SPEAKER_01 (13:14):
Hey, family law firm leaders.
My partner Tony Carls justreleased his book where he lays
bare our precise blueprint forgrowing sterling lawyers from
zero to 17 million.
This is the blueprint that westill use daily.
And Tony explains it in verysimple terms.
The truth is, this is not simpleto do.
(13:35):
Success requires and demandshard work, but if you have the
patience and the work ethic todo it, your family law firm will
succeed.
SPEAKER_00 (13:45):
And you have to make that conscious decision.
And I'm gonna start to sampleit.
SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The um Dan Sullivan actually,um, when we when he asked me
eight years ago, um, what do youdo?
I said, I'm a lawyer, I have alaw firm.
He goes, No.
And that's the last time you'reever gonna describe yourself
that way.
You are an entrepreneur whoknows how to practice law and
own a law firm, right?
(14:12):
Think of yourself, Alex, as anentrepreneur first.
Those other things are skillsthat you've acquired, but you're
an entrepreneur.
And that identity shift, Tyler,was like seismic, you know?
It was everything.
SPEAKER_00 (14:27):
Because it gave you the freedom to go explore other
things.
SPEAKER_02 (14:31):
Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_00 (14:34):
So what are you most excited about right now?
What what business are youreally focused on?
How are you dividing your timeamongst all these different
things?
SPEAKER_02 (14:42):
Yeah, so um, you know, it's it's a it's a whole
lot of ADD, as you can probablytell, but um the the the the big
current project is Exit PathPartners, where we we, you know,
so as you and I were justtalking about, there's across
America, at any given point,there are tens, hundreds of
(15:04):
thousands of lawyers who arejust tired of their practice or
are retiring from theirpractice.
They just don't want to do it,they don't want to do the grind
anymore for one reason oranother, but they've spent a lot
of time building their goodwilland their reputation, their
brand, their relationships.
And so there is a ridiculouslyhigh number of those lawyers who
(15:28):
just shut their doors and send aletter to their clients saying,
hey, it's been a great, youknow, 30, 40 years.
I've appreciated ourrelationship.
Here's a couple names.
I'm gonna go fishing for the,you know, in the islands from
now on.
Um, and what I say to thoselawyers is don't do that.
(15:49):
Go fishing, go do whatever youwant to do, but don't flush all
of that uh relationship capitaland that goodwill down the
toilet because it has value.
Those those clients are gonna gofind other lawyers and they're
gonna keep paying those lawyers,right?
Um, uh especially if you've gotclients who um are referral
(16:14):
sources, meaning they help yougrow, especially if you have
clients who are repeat clients,uh, especially if you have
clients who are entrepreneurs.
Entrepreneurs are in thebusiness of growth.
They will need lawyers more andmore.
So, what I say to those lawyersis let my company, Exit Path
Partners, help you transfer yourbook of business to another
(16:37):
firm.
That firm will acquire it andkeep paying you.
Every firm pays origination toits lawyers or to referral
sources, or both.
So they've already baked it intotheir business model, right?
Into their revenue model.
It's already there.
Be that originator and then gofishing.
(16:58):
So that's how that's how we doit.
And we've got a bench of umreally great growing
entrepreneurial law firms thatare just falling over themselves
for that business.
So that's what I'm most excitedabout right now.
SPEAKER_00 (17:13):
That's great.
And and are you seeing atransfer or a change of mindset
in these uh law firm owners whoare like, oh, actually, there is
a path to acquisition.
SPEAKER_02 (17:24):
Yeah, our most our most common client is the one
who um has been a craftsman,right?
An artisan, and who has done onething for 30, 40 years.
It could be estate planning, itcould be tax, whatever it is,
family law.
Um, and they have their ownpractice, they have their own
(17:46):
law firm, but they have notmonetized expansively.
They haven't really been asentrepreneurial as they could
have been.
They've just been craftsmen,they've been doing their thing
really well.
And so when the time comes toexit, it's the same thing,
right?
If you've never bought or sold alaw firm before, if you've never
(18:10):
merged with a law firm before,this is new and it's uh
intimidating and it's complexand it's stressful.
So that is the most commonconversation I have and my team
has with exiting lawyers.
They just don't know what to door where to start.
And so that's why they hire us.
SPEAKER_00 (18:28):
Give us a, as we're kind of finishing up here, what
does the taste of that initialconversation sound like, look
like?
You know, I know a lot of ourlisteners own and operate a
family law firm, for example.
What should they be prepared forcoming into that initial
conversation with Exopath?
SPEAKER_02 (18:47):
Okay, well, here's the process.
Um, Tyler.
Uh, and I know you guys help lawfirms too, so it may be similar
to your process.
Um, I don't go anywhere until Iunderstand the person I'm
talking to on a cellular level,right?
Meaning I ask them fourquestions and we take 90 minutes
to get to the answer.
(19:07):
Okay.
Question number one is um, whereare you trying to go?
What are you trying to do?
What are you trying to be?
What is uh your ideal day looklike, right?
One year from now, two yearsfrom now, at exit, at
transition, right?
So um I want to know how youwant to spend your time, how you
(19:29):
want to generate revenue, uh,how you want your relationships
to look like, uh, yourprofessional relationships to
look like.
So paint that picture for me.
That is the goal.
That's the target, that's thebullseye.
The three questions after thatare dangers, opportunities,
strengths.
Dangers.
What are getting what's gettingin the way of that vision?
(19:52):
Right?
Uh, what are the obstacles?
What are your limitations?
Right.
So we list those out.
Next, opportunities.
Oh.
What is out there that can getyou there, but that you're not
grabbing, that you're notexploiting?
Okay.
Um, so those are youropportunities and S is strengths
or superpowers.
Uh, what are you best at?
(20:13):
What can you leverage to get toyour goal?
And once you have those fourdata points, Tyler, then you
have, I believe, the algorithmfor achieving your goals by
eliminating your dangers,exploiting your opportunities,
and leveraging your strengths.
(20:34):
And so you then build from therea strategy for um basically
reverse engineering your idealoutcome based on those three
types of actions.
Also, more things I learned fromuh the the just the best coach I
think I I've ever had, uh, Dan,um, he taught me those four
elements, and I've used themwith clients, I've used that uh
(20:56):
of the law firm, uh, I use itwith clients of Exit Path.
It's just, I use it for myself,right?
In December, when I plan my nextyear, right?
Where do I want to be a yearfrom now?
What do I want that to looklike?
And then what are the dangers,opportunities, and strengths
that I need to break through tosolve for that?
SPEAKER_00 (21:14):
It's so powerful.
And step one in deciding whatyou want to do, whether it's
expand your firm, grow yourfirm, shrink your firm, sell
your firm, is have a vision.
Understand what you want.
What's your north star?
Why are you doing this in thefirst place?
SPEAKER_02 (21:28):
Yeah, you know, and it's interesting too.
There's a really great uh bookthat I recommend to all
entrepreneurs.
It's called The The Road LessStupid by Keith Cunningham.
So good.
You love it, right?
SPEAKER_00 (21:40):
Oh my gosh.
Yes, one of my favorite books ofall time.
Yeah.
Oh.
Especially with the audioversion, because you get a
little flavor from the author.
SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
Yeah, dude, it's so good, man.
Um, I'm I I know I I can I caninfer a lot about you, Tyler, by
the fact that you love thatbook.
The reason it um informs thisprocess, that the that four
element process is um once youknow where you're trying to go,
(22:09):
um, the next question is, whereare you now?
Right?
If if you know what there lookslike, what does here look like?
And Keith says, that's thehardest question, right?
We can all dream big, but weall, when we imagine when we
think about where we are rightnow, we all have blinders on.
(22:30):
We think that um, you know, uhwe have problems over here while
there are problems over here.
You know, we think uh, you know,that that we're well on our way
to achieving our goals, butwe're not looking at these
numbers over here, right?
And so that's that's where I gonext, right?
Once you figure out the there,get really aggressive and
(22:53):
objective and skeptical andintense about where you are
right now, you know.
Um, so yeah, yeah.
Um that dude knows his stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (23:07):
I mean, Alex, there have been so many great nuggets
that you've dropped on us today.
I think we could do this foranother hour.
So we're gonna have to have youcome back uh because there's
lots of gold in theseconversations.
I just appreciate your time.
I appreciate your wisdom.
Uh, a huge advocate of beingable to expand your businesses
(23:29):
and and delegate it and moveforward so that you can follow
your passions.
Because ultimately that's what'sgoing to lead to the most
successful business outcomes.
SPEAKER_02 (23:38):
Thank you.
Yeah, Tyler.
Thanks.
This has been really fun.
I really appreciate you uhasking me to join your your
podcast.
It's awesome.
I love what you're doing, man.
A lot of attorneys I talk to are really focused on
duplicating themselves,expanding their law firm.
They had to make their firstimportant hire.
They had to learn how todelegate, right?
There's this whole evolution ofgoing from an entrepreneur to a
business leader.
Welcome back to the SterlingFamily Law Show.
(00:22):
I'm your host, Tyler Dolph, andI'm also the CEO of our
marketing consultancy for familylaw firms called Rocket Clicks
that was born out of our own lawfirm that we've built over the
last 10 years and have grown toover 27 attorneys, Sterling
lawyers.
Today we continue ourowner-operator series.
(00:43):
We interview Alex, who is abusiness and MA attorney in
Cleveland who has multiplebusinesses.
So maybe asking yourself, why ishe on the Sterling Family Law
Show?
Well, he has some great insightsas it relates to becoming a true
business leader and not just asolo entrepreneur, as well as
things to think about as you'reexpanding your law firm.
(01:05):
I really hope you enjoyedtoday's episode.
Alex, thank you so much for yourtime today and for joining us on
the podcast.
Really excited to hear yourstory and understand how you've
built your law firm and otherbusinesses that uh that you've
built along the way.
As we get started, give us aquick introduction, a little bit
of backstory on the attorneyside of things, and then we can
(01:27):
dive into everything else.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
Yeah, yeah.
So, Tyler, thanks for having me.
I appreciate it.
I'll give you the shortchronology of uh of my
professional career, uh, but butto get there uh a few
biographical notes.
So I'm an immigrant.
I wasn't born in this country.
Uh I was born in Moldova, uh,which, if your listeners know
where that is, that puts them inlike the 1% of the planet
(01:52):
because nobody knows whereMoldova is.
So that's next to Russia and theUkraine.
Came over when I was four.
Uh it was the 70s.
Uh my dad was an entrepreneur.
I learned how to be anentrepreneur from my dad.
Uh grew up in Cleveland.
Um, wanted to be a lawyerbecause I used to watch a show
that um I don't think you werealive when the show was on.
(02:16):
It was called LA Law.
Did you used to watch LA Law?
Uh I never watched it live, butI've heard of the show.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh I wanted to be one of thelawyers on that show.
His name was Arnie Becker.
He was actually a divorcelawyer.
Um, but uh he uh uh I wanted tobe him and I imagined myself as
a lawyer because of him, and soI went to law school, went uh to
(02:39):
went to, well, first I went tocollege on an Army ROTC
scholarship, uh law school inCleveland, worked for a large
law firm, a couple of large lawfirms after that, deployed to
Iraq with my Army Reserve unit,came back, uh, went in-house uh
for eight years to be a generalcounsel for a telecom company,
(03:01):
came out of that and started myown law firm.
That was in 2012, and I've ownedit ever since.
Uh, and so we're a full-servicebusiness law firm.
Um, since starting it, I havemerged it with another firm.
Um we have about 27 people theretotal, half of whom are lawyers.
(03:22):
Um, and we've got um clients allover the planet.
I personally um went from beingsort of a, you know, a worker
being the firm, uh, well,wearing all hats in the firm to
being more uh leadership andstrategist in the firm to really
(03:44):
just being rainmaker in the firmtoday, um, and really just kind
of focusing on being anentrepreneur.
And so we've got otherbusinesses around the firm.
One is called Cover My Six.
It helps uh uh business ownersoptimize the six relationships
that get them sued.
You know, customers, vendors,employees, shareholders, the
(04:06):
government, competitors.
Wrote a book called The LawsuitFree Company.
Uh, we've got an MA brokerage,we've got an executive
recruiting firm, and the newestcompany we have, Exit Path
Partners, helps law firms buyother law firms and helps
lawyers exit from their lawfirm.
So that is the short version.
(04:28):
That's the shit, believe it ornot, that's the short version.
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
You're a busy man.
First, thank you so much foryour service.
Uh what a path.
A lot of attorneys I talk to arereally focused on duplicating
themselves, expanding their lawfirm.
You know, they spent a lot oftime as the guy or the gal.
(04:56):
They had to make their firstimportant hire, they had to
learn how to delegate, right?
There's this whole evolution ofgoing from an entrepreneur to a
business leader.
You've done that as well asstarted additional businesses.
What do you think has allowedyou to take those leaps to um
(05:18):
delegate what you needed to sothat you could get out of the
weeds and focus on some of theseother endeavors?
SPEAKER_02 (05:24):
Yeah, great question, Tyler.
So so I'm a member of this uhgroup called Strategic Coach.
I don't know if you've ever readDan Sullivan's books, but I've
been in Strategic Coach foreight years.
Um, the foundational principleof coach is build a
self-managing company so thatyou are spending your time
(05:47):
inside of your unique ability,meaning you love what you do,
you're great at what you do, andit makes you money, right?
It checks those three boxes.
Um, if it doesn't check one ofthose three boxes, someone else
should be doing that thing, oryou should be doing it on the
weekend because it's not makingyou money.
And so through good coachingover the years, um I just, you
(06:10):
know, pretty methodicallystarted slicing off the things
in my firm that I didn't want todo.
And once I knew that it didn'tcheck all three boxes, um, your
choices are pretty simple.
You either delegate it, automateit, or eliminate it.
Okay.
And so from there, I learnedenough about myself to know that
(06:31):
I actually am uh I love and Ithink I'm pretty good at, and
I'm definitely more profitableas an entrepreneur than I am as
the litigator that I was, as thedeal lawyer that I was.
Um, I still enjoy a lot of thosethings, but I don't love them,
(06:52):
and I'm probably not great atthem.
Um and it was only throughscaling the business that I saw
how much more revenue and profitI could generate from my
organization rather than justworking in it.
SPEAKER_00 (07:10):
So I think that is the big moment of insight that I
want our listeners to hear thatas you did less in your
business, your business mademore, your business grew.
Oftentimes, as entrepreneurs, wethink that only we can do
certain things.
And as soon as we get out of theway and we accept the fact that
(07:34):
like 80% as good as I can do itis is plenty good enough, then
our businesses really start togrow and scale.
SPEAKER_02 (07:42):
Tyler, I can tell that you drank the same Kool-Aid
that I drank.
Because, you know, I rememberreally well somebody telling me,
Alex, the best entrepreneursmake more by working less.
And I remember thinking, that'sbananas.
That can't be true.
That is contrary to every kindof work ethic that you were
(08:04):
raised with, right?
And it is definitely true.
It is a hundred percent true.
Um, and it requires imagination,it requires the ability to take
risk and be comfortable withrisk, getting out of your
comfort zone, thinking like acontrarian.
So I really appreciate that youjust articulated my inner
(08:26):
monologue there.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
SPEAKER_00 (08:29):
It's uh it's something we all need to hear
again and again.
So you started delegating, youstarted taking things off your
plate.
The first uh endeavor outside ofthe law firm.
Why'd you do it?
What happened?
Tell us a story.
SPEAKER_02 (08:44):
Uh great question.
So um I started my firm in 2012,and about three years in, I
realized that I had, we were,we're, we were, we are and were
and always have been afull-service business law firm.
So that's litigation, that's uhuh corporate transactions,
employment law.
Uh we brought in family lawbecause so many of our clients
(09:08):
were needing those services andum tax, all that stuff.
Uh so I what I realized was thatwe were doing a lot of MA deals
for a small number of ourclients, and it was a lot of
repeat business.
So we saw early on who wasacquisitive, who was out there
(09:30):
looking for deals, acquiringcompanies.
And um, these were close friendsof mine and and longtime
clients.
And uh I said, hey, listen,you're out there buying other
businesses.
Why don't I and my team findbusinesses for you to buy?
And then just like you would paya recruiter or a broker, you'll
(09:52):
pay us.
And we'll do conflict waivers ifwe're also your lawyers on those
deals.
Um, and eventually, so westarted doing that.
We so basically we got firstlook at who the acquiring
companies were, and we startedleveraging that into brokerage
opportunities, and then we spunoff a whole brokerage from that.
(10:15):
And um, and then it was the samething with um executive
recruiting.
So started that company, um,Gurzburg Executive Search, um,
uh probably about two or threeyears after that.
And it was for the same reasonwe saw who was hiring and firing
a lot, you know, and we saw thatthey were paying recruiters 20,
(10:37):
30% of the first year's salary.
So we said, man, we've got greatnetworks, and I've got amazing
paralegals.
And so much of what recruitersand brokers do is um simplified
into processes and tactics thatcan be done by really good
(10:58):
paralegals.
So from a law firm, we spun offa brokerage and an executive
recruiting firm.
And then cover my six was thenext thing.
Um, and that really was justkind of like this realization
that there's only six plaintiffswho can sue a business.
So why not just attack yoursystems in your company and your
(11:22):
policies and your employeehandbooks and your contracts and
just flush out all the stuffthat's getting you sued or
that's not preventing you fromgetting sued and optimize those.
And did that turn into uh like acoaching program or how does a
great question.
So uh we wrote a book called TheLawsuit Free Company, where we
(11:44):
taught our clients how toself-implement this system.
It turned into a process insideof our law firm.
It turned into a subscriptionservice.
Um, and we are working on aseries of technology enabled
(12:05):
processes and with AI and withother automations to make cover
my six uh more scalable thanlawyers reviewing contracts for
clients and things like that.
So they're there, yes.
So it's well, and I and I andbased on what I know about you,
Tyler, and your podcast here, Ican share with your
(12:30):
entrepreneurial listeners thatyou know those of you that know
that you are more than just alawyer, that you are a strategic
thinker, a creative thinker, andan entrepreneur, um, creating
space in your mind and in yourday for generating ideas like
(12:54):
that and and for building outideas like that into new
companies is super important.
You got to create that space.
If you are um, you know, ifyou're litigating from nine to
five, you don't have that spacefive days a week, right?
You need to you need to beintentional about where where
you deploy your time and effortand energy.
SPEAKER_01 (13:14):
Hey, family law firm leaders.
My partner Tony Carls justreleased his book where he lays
bare our precise blueprint forgrowing sterling lawyers from
zero to 17 million.
This is the blueprint that westill use daily.
And Tony explains it in verysimple terms.
The truth is, this is not simpleto do.
(13:35):
Success requires and demandshard work, but if you have the
patience and the work ethic todo it, your family law firm will
succeed.
SPEAKER_00 (13:45):
And you have to make that conscious decision.
And I'm gonna start to sampleit.
SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The um Dan Sullivan actually,um, when we when he asked me
eight years ago, um, what do youdo?
I said, I'm a lawyer, I have alaw firm.
He goes, No.
And that's the last time you'reever gonna describe yourself
that way.
You are an entrepreneur whoknows how to practice law and
own a law firm, right?
(14:12):
Think of yourself, Alex, as anentrepreneur first.
Those other things are skillsthat you've acquired, but you're
an entrepreneur.
And that identity shift, Tyler,was like seismic, you know?
It was everything.
SPEAKER_00 (14:27):
Because it gave you the freedom to go explore other
things.
SPEAKER_02 (14:31):
Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_00 (14:34):
So what are you most excited about right now?
What what business are youreally focused on?
How are you dividing your timeamongst all these different
things?
SPEAKER_02 (14:42):
Yeah, so um, you know, it's it's a it's a whole
lot of ADD, as you can probablytell, but um the the the the big
current project is Exit PathPartners, where we we, you know,
so as you and I were justtalking about, there's across
America, at any given point,there are tens, hundreds of
(15:04):
thousands of lawyers who arejust tired of their practice or
are retiring from theirpractice.
They just don't want to do it,they don't want to do the grind
anymore for one reason oranother, but they've spent a lot
of time building their goodwilland their reputation, their
brand, their relationships.
And so there is a ridiculouslyhigh number of those lawyers who
(15:28):
just shut their doors and send aletter to their clients saying,
hey, it's been a great, youknow, 30, 40 years.
I've appreciated ourrelationship.
Here's a couple names.
I'm gonna go fishing for the,you know, in the islands from
now on.
Um, and what I say to thoselawyers is don't do that.
(15:49):
Go fishing, go do whatever youwant to do, but don't flush all
of that uh relationship capitaland that goodwill down the
toilet because it has value.
Those those clients are gonna gofind other lawyers and they're
gonna keep paying those lawyers,right?
Um, uh especially if you've gotclients who um are referral
(16:14):
sources, meaning they help yougrow, especially if you have
clients who are repeat clients,uh, especially if you have
clients who are entrepreneurs.
Entrepreneurs are in thebusiness of growth.
They will need lawyers more andmore.
So, what I say to those lawyersis let my company, Exit Path
Partners, help you transfer yourbook of business to another
(16:37):
firm.
That firm will acquire it andkeep paying you.
Every firm pays origination toits lawyers or to referral
sources, or both.
So they've already baked it intotheir business model, right?
Into their revenue model.
It's already there.
Be that originator and then gofishing.
(16:58):
So that's how that's how we doit.
And we've got a bench of umreally great growing
entrepreneurial law firms thatare just falling over themselves
for that business.
So that's what I'm most excitedabout right now.
SPEAKER_00 (17:13):
That's great.
And and are you seeing atransfer or a change of mindset
in these uh law firm owners whoare like, oh, actually, there is
a path to acquisition.
SPEAKER_02 (17:24):
Yeah, our most our most common client is the one
who um has been a craftsman,right?
An artisan, and who has done onething for 30, 40 years.
It could be estate planning, itcould be tax, whatever it is,
family law.
Um, and they have their ownpractice, they have their own
(17:46):
law firm, but they have notmonetized expansively.
They haven't really been asentrepreneurial as they could
have been.
They've just been craftsmen,they've been doing their thing
really well.
And so when the time comes toexit, it's the same thing,
right?
If you've never bought or sold alaw firm before, if you've never
(18:10):
merged with a law firm before,this is new and it's uh
intimidating and it's complexand it's stressful.
So that is the most commonconversation I have and my team
has with exiting lawyers.
They just don't know what to door where to start.
And so that's why they hire us.
SPEAKER_00 (18:28):
Give us a, as we're kind of finishing up here, what
does the taste of that initialconversation sound like, look
like?
You know, I know a lot of ourlisteners own and operate a
family law firm, for example.
What should they be prepared forcoming into that initial
conversation with Exopath?
SPEAKER_02 (18:47):
Okay, well, here's the process.
Um, Tyler.
Uh, and I know you guys help lawfirms too, so it may be similar
to your process.
Um, I don't go anywhere until Iunderstand the person I'm
talking to on a cellular level,right?
Meaning I ask them fourquestions and we take 90 minutes
to get to the answer.
(19:07):
Okay.
Question number one is um, whereare you trying to go?
What are you trying to do?
What are you trying to be?
What is uh your ideal day looklike, right?
One year from now, two yearsfrom now, at exit, at
transition, right?
So um I want to know how youwant to spend your time, how you
(19:29):
want to generate revenue, uh,how you want your relationships
to look like, uh, yourprofessional relationships to
look like.
So paint that picture for me.
That is the goal.
That's the target, that's thebullseye.
The three questions after thatare dangers, opportunities,
strengths.
Dangers.
What are getting what's gettingin the way of that vision?
(19:52):
Right?
Uh, what are the obstacles?
What are your limitations?
Right.
So we list those out.
Next, opportunities.
Oh.
What is out there that can getyou there, but that you're not
grabbing, that you're notexploiting?
Okay.
Um, so those are youropportunities and S is strengths
or superpowers.
Uh, what are you best at?
(20:13):
What can you leverage to get toyour goal?
And once you have those fourdata points, Tyler, then you
have, I believe, the algorithmfor achieving your goals by
eliminating your dangers,exploiting your opportunities,
and leveraging your strengths.
(20:34):
And so you then build from therea strategy for um basically
reverse engineering your idealoutcome based on those three
types of actions.
Also, more things I learned fromuh the the just the best coach I
think I I've ever had, uh, Dan,um, he taught me those four
elements, and I've used themwith clients, I've used that uh
(20:56):
of the law firm, uh, I use itwith clients of Exit Path.
It's just, I use it for myself,right?
In December, when I plan my nextyear, right?
Where do I want to be a yearfrom now?
What do I want that to looklike?
And then what are the dangers,opportunities, and strengths
that I need to break through tosolve for that?
SPEAKER_00 (21:14):
It's so powerful.
And step one in deciding whatyou want to do, whether it's
expand your firm, grow yourfirm, shrink your firm, sell
your firm, is have a vision.
Understand what you want.
What's your north star?
Why are you doing this in thefirst place?
SPEAKER_02 (21:28):
Yeah, you know, and it's interesting too.
There's a really great uh bookthat I recommend to all
entrepreneurs.
It's called The The Road LessStupid by Keith Cunningham.
So good.
You love it, right?
SPEAKER_00 (21:40):
Oh my gosh.
Yes, one of my favorite books ofall time.
Yeah.
Oh.
Especially with the audioversion, because you get a
little flavor from the author.
SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
Yeah, dude, it's so good, man.
Um, I'm I I know I I can I caninfer a lot about you, Tyler, by
the fact that you love thatbook.
The reason it um informs thisprocess, that the that four
element process is um once youknow where you're trying to go,
(22:09):
um, the next question is, whereare you now?
Right?
If if you know what there lookslike, what does here look like?
And Keith says, that's thehardest question, right?
We can all dream big, but weall, when we imagine when we
think about where we are rightnow, we all have blinders on.
(22:30):
We think that um, you know, uhwe have problems over here while
there are problems over here.
You know, we think uh, you know,that that we're well on our way
to achieving our goals, butwe're not looking at these
numbers over here, right?
And so that's that's where I gonext, right?
Once you figure out the there,get really aggressive and
(22:53):
objective and skeptical andintense about where you are
right now, you know.
Um, so yeah, yeah.
Um that dude knows his stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (23:07):
I mean, Alex, there have been so many great nuggets
that you've dropped on us today.
I think we could do this foranother hour.
So we're gonna have to have youcome back uh because there's
lots of gold in theseconversations.
I just appreciate your time.
I appreciate your wisdom.
Uh, a huge advocate of beingable to expand your businesses
(23:29):
and and delegate it and moveforward so that you can follow
your passions.
Because ultimately that's what'sgoing to lead to the most
successful business outcomes.
SPEAKER_02 (23:38):
Thank you.
Yeah, Tyler.
Thanks.
This has been really fun.
I really appreciate you uhasking me to join your your
podcast.
It's awesome.
I love what you're doing, man.
Popular Podcasts
Hey Jonas!
Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.