December 9, 2025 • 21 mins
Law firm differentiation strategy is everything. Look like every other divorce attorney? You're just another option to them.
Matt built a 15-person firm by going beyond legal work. While most firms compete on price or SEO rankings, he added a divorce coach to help clients transition, not just get paperwork. That's real differentiation that clients actually feel.
He also figured out how to scale a family law practice without drowning in overhead. Cloud systems. Contract paralegals working 15-25 hours based on caseload. No massive salary commitments until the revenue justified it.
The result? A family law firm branding strategy that nobody in Minneapolis can copy.
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---
📄 CHAPTERS
0:00 - Law Firm Differentiation Strategy: Why "Good Legal Work" Isn't Enough
1:22 - Meet Matt Ludt: From Solo Practice to 15-Person Family Law Firm
2:03 - The Niche Decision: Why He Dropped Everything But Family Law
5:34 - Cloud Technology and Scaling Without Full-Time Hires
13:16 - Credibility Plus Visibility Equals Profitability
15:40 - The Recognition: Clients Need More Than a Divorce Decree
17:37 - Adding a Divorce Coach: The Differentiation Move Nobody Expected
19:41 - Stealing Ideas From TV Shows to Build Your Law Firm Brand
----------------------
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Matt has built two successful law firms.
(00:03):
His current law firm is fully focusedon family law, and he goes beyond
just the transaction of a divorceand really helps his clients
move past this moment in timeby hiring specialists
to allow them to move forwardpost the divorce.
He is a special entrepreneurand I really hope
(00:23):
you enjoy the episode today.
Welcome back to the Sterling FamilyLaw Show,
the podcast designed to help law firmowners build the firm of their dreams.
I am your host Tyler Dolph,I am also the CEO of our hyper
focused marketing agency that worksexclusively with family law firms
(00:45):
across the country,and it was born out of our own law firm
that we've been buildingfor the last ten years.
That has grown to over 27 attorneystoday
we continue our owner operator series,and we interview Matt, who is the owner of
Atticus, law firm in Minneapolis.
He has a great family focused firmthat does not only divorce work,
(01:08):
but helps his clients move forwardafter that transaction happens.
I really hope you enjoy the episode today.
Matt,thank you so much for being with us today.
I am so excitedto hear about you and your firm.
Would you do me a kindnessand just introduce yourself
to our audienceand tell us a little bit about your firm
today? Sure.
My name is Matt Ludt.
I'm the founder of Atticus Family Law,serving,
(01:31):
divorce and other familylaw needs across the Twin Cities
Metro area, being Minneapolis, Saint Pauland then the surrounding suburbs.
We've got 15 people in our firm,four attorneys and actively,
building and growing.
That's awesome.
What were you doing before Atticus?
(01:53):
I had a different,firm that I had started and run.
It was a general practice.
Doing a little bit of everything.
And then in 2013, I decided to niche downinto just doing family law,
and now even more so, more than half ofour work is really just divorce.
(02:13):
And was there a reason, like.
Was there a moment in time where you said,I'm sick of trying to do everything
for everyone?
I need to focus or what?
What happened there?
Well, it was a period of transitionwith some staff leaving
and an opportunity to sort of redesignsome things.
And then in doing so,I had picked up on a lot of the virtues
(02:38):
of niching into particular areas.
And the more that you could be,concentrated into one area,
the greater expertisethat you can have there.
And just some of the advantagesthat come with not having to do
a bunch of disparate practice areas.
We made theexact same pivot ourselves at our firm.
(02:59):
And never looked back.
So that's fun to hear.
A similar storythere as you were niching down.
For us.
We had we got rid of 50% of the caseswe had.
We let some of our, you know, attorneys gothat weren't practicing family.
It was that transitionary perioddifficult for you?
Could you tell us a little bitabout how you were able to do that?
(03:20):
I hadn't been a very big general practice.
So then when this my main associate,who was full time, had the opportunity
to get her dream job outsideof the practice, private practice,
and then the other guy was a parttimer
that also went into the public sector.
(03:40):
It was really just all of a sudden,I was down to myself,
and I realized thatthat was the good opportunity to do that.
Also, like,by 2013, two things had happened. One.
All of the law studentsthat had gone through the Great Recession
and couldn't find jobs were really capableof making their own websites
(04:03):
and projecting experience.
For instance,like the ones that went into criminal
defense were doing DUIs for $500.
And sometimes that,those potential clients
can't really differentiateas to why they should be spending $3,500
on a DUI instead of 500.
(04:24):
And so that competition came in.
Plus phone books went out by that point.
And I with no incomewhen it came to criminal defense.
We've gotten a lot of clients from that.
And so all of a sudden,just the information age changed,
which made it easier to,start scrapping some of those other
practice areas that we didn'tthat had either a troublesome future
(04:48):
or just we didn't do a lot of.
And That's great.
So you've decided to practicesolium family law.
You're by yourself.
Talk to us about some of those early days.
Like what?
What did you learn aboutfocusing your firm hiring
for that focus building process around it?
(05:10):
Give us some Having startedone firm already ten years prior.
There were certain insightsand advantages I had, but ultimately,
the biggest advantageI came across at that
time was being online ready.
Meaning we are storing,you know, I had previously had servers
(05:33):
that hosted all of our data that thenwe could access some remotely as needed.
But by that time we were into the cloudin 2013 and I was able to start
identifying really qualifiedparalegals that could work part
time for me, along with whateverother client, firms
they were contracting with.
(05:54):
But then being able to pull everythingoff the cloud, put it back in the cloud,
started identifying, case managementthat allowed for some communications
that we weren't relying on email or text.
And so then I was able toadd staffing as I needed
(06:15):
without committing to a full time personand having to worry about having all the,
the revenue necessaryto keep up with that salary.
But instead it was just much more of aas I give them work,
they did the work and sometimes it's15 hours a week, sometimes it's 25.
But that was a nice proportional wayto start growing the firm,
you know, from 13 to 14and then probably into 15.
(06:40):
The the nature of being ableto do the repetitive work,
the same work over and over againallows you to create a lot of focus
and a lot of repetitive processso that your team isn't, you know, context
switching all day long.
They're able to do the same thingover and over again,
which createsa lot of efficiencies and profitability.
(07:01):
And soas you were growing and adding attorneys,
how did you have to change as a leaderto be able to support that?
Additional staff know that you couldn'tdo it all yourself anymore,
and you got to let go a little bit right?
Right.
And there's a lot of advantagesof delegating downward,
getting rid of the stuff that waybelow your pay grade,
(07:23):
especially as a firm owner.
You're like as,Michael Gerber talks about that, like,
as soon as you gointo working for yourself, you're both
the business owner and the technician.
So you're wearing two hats that reallydemand, like, full time attention.
And so then it's like,as much as you can delegate stuff off
(07:45):
your plate as a technicianand not be doing the filings
and the drafting and the first drafts,and you can give the stuff to a paralegal
or legal system.
The more you're able to focus onthat law firm development stuff
that is so easily relegatedand pushed off.
And I'll get to that, next weekor after the holidays or, you know, when
(08:10):
summer lets out and, you know,the kids go back to school,
like all those sort of promisesyou make yourself that,
really hinder your firm's development.
100%.
Were there any key hireskind of in those early days that have
stayed with you that you really are like,oh man, I'm so happy.
I found this person.
(08:30):
And they added a bunch of value to myYeah.
I can think, of a particular example.
There was, by the summer of 18,I needed another full time paralegal.
Plus, we wanted to bringin a legal secretary to do some stuff.
And so I found this paralegal,that we hired that was,
(08:58):
And but then we also hired this,legal secretary, and she was actually,
had scrapped her old job,and gone to paralegal school
and was halfway through paralegal schoolwhen we hired her as the legal secretary.
Thinking a little bit about the futurerelative to when she got done.
Well, within 90 days, we quickly realizedthe paralegal was not very good.
(09:22):
So I pulled the legal secretary asidewho had started a really impressed me,
and I was like, how would you like to takeon some paralegal duties?
And the next day we let the paralegalgo, promoted the legal secretary
to our new paralegal, even thosewho are still in paralegal school and,
and that was one of the easiest decisionswe ever made.
And then that paralegal still with meseven years later,
(09:45):
and she is just a rock star.
incredible.
And is she doing more than paralegal worktoday?
She'll be manage the firm.
How's her evolution changed?
Yes, she's highly capable,and she's in a position where,
kind of even with high caseloads,working with the attorneys that she does,
she can offer this opportunityto be kind of a junior case manager,
(10:08):
a primary point of contact for clientsso that they don't have to worry about
being frustrated with their attorneysbeing in mediations or meetings or court.
Yeah.
Matt, as you know, you'rein kind of unique situation from the other
law firm owners we've talked to.
And the fact that you've startedtwo law firms.
(10:29):
For our listeners who are thinking abouteither leaving their own,
you know, or leaving a large law firm,or they just graduated law school
and starting their own firm.
What are some like key lessonsor experiences that you could share
that could help them?
You know, take a shortcut.
Yeah.
(10:50):
So when I startedworking in like, 2013 and niching in,
I identified a lawyer, coach,and the one I happened to find
was based in the Twin Cities,even though he was working with attorneys.
Nationwide.
But it was, like, damn affordable, and Iit was like $1,200 a year or something
(11:13):
for quarterly meetings.
And it was just some really great insightthat was like customize going above
and beyond any conferencesI've been going to or webinars,
but it was really tailored to who I wasand what I was trying to do with the firm.
And so one of my biggest regrets was like,not having started with that back in 2003,
when I started my first firm.
(11:39):
And just theadvantage of coming in
and having a really good consultant and,you know, I ended up working with him
for like five yearsbefore I kind of outgrew them.
And then I've consistently workedwith some other sort of consultant
since then, to make surethat I've got my head screwed on straight.
And we're doing smart things for firmgrowth.
That is, that is overwhelminglythe number one answer
(12:03):
I get when I ask that questionis don't be afraid to ask for help.
Find someone who's been there, donethat, or a mentor or a coach
that can helpkeep you moving in the right direction.
I'm particularly interestedin the early days
when you had just signed up with,what were some of the things
that they were talking about?
Was it like,here's how you be an entrepreneur and run
(12:25):
a business that happens to be a law firm,or is it more on the attorney side?
No, it's mostlyon the business side of the firm.
Just a discipline around, like.
All right.
What'sbeen your revenue this last quarter?
Because as juniorlaw firm owners, you're not disciplined
enough to really be mindingall of your finances
(12:48):
in a business acumen way.
Yeah.
You worried about itrelative to your own income.
But just in regards to looking at it,the way in which business leaders do
with a level of sort of detachment,but then also, you know,
potential clients, your, your billing,what's your staffing at?
(13:10):
So it's really like definingthose metrics
and being able to track them. yeah.
But then also a little bit of like,what are you doing for
all of your marketing?
In my early days,I picked up a simple formula
that served me so very well,which is simply credibility.
(13:30):
And visibility equals profitability.
And when you design so muchlike you analyze what your
the chance would you have a chance to do?
Really organizesand prioritizes, you know, like
first time law firm owners, you know,they're always
so anxious to set up that damn Facebookprofile.
(13:51):
And yeah, that's going to give youa little bit of visibility
and maybe convey some of your credibility.
But it's not that big,you know, compared to all the other things
you could be spending your time doing,such as reaching out
to all of your high school, college,law school contacts, other colleagues,
former coworkers,and really getting,
you know, front and center with themand introducing them to the fact
(14:14):
that you've got your own practice now.
Do you want to grow your law firm, butyou can't predict next month's revenue.
Do you hire an attorney without knowingif you can actually afford it?
I hear you.
We have a planning systemthat forces us to focus.
It's built on these three key principles.
(14:34):
We are teaching this entire frameworkin a free 45 minute
webinar called the 2026Annual Planning Live.
Let's make next yearthe one that actually changes everything.
Yeah, it's still,the people to people
connection is still the strongest one.
What an interesting fact that we realizedas we were building our firm
(14:55):
and then building the agency was that,you know, almost 50% of all family law
firm leads come from the mapscome from a spouse realizing
they're getting a divorceand they search, you know,
divorce attorney near me or, familylaw attorney near me.
And, and firm ownerskind of have to embrace that fact.
I think there's so many firmsthat rely 100% on referrals, right?
(15:17):
Just their name and reputation,which is great.
Not knocking it.
But there's there'sa lot of leads out there.
And if you can build a systemto, to intake them, you can grow a firm
pretty fast.
Yeah.
The new will have your marketingdiversified,
you know, so you're not drawingtoo much upon one source.
Yeah.
(15:37):
So, Matt, as you think about the futureof your firm, where are you going?
Tell us.
Tell us about what you're working onand what you're hoping to achieve
over the next few years.
So we've gone in, well,a couple of years ago,
I came to the recognition thatour clients need
more than just a great divorce decree.
(15:58):
That's important.
That's, you know, having a little privaterulebook that serves just between
you and your ex as to how to governyour finances, your kids, cash flow,
all the things that still allow your livesto be co-mingled, that's essential.
But ultimately, people are going througha divorce transition towards,
(16:19):
trying to makea, you know, their next best life.
What? They had a married life.
Maybe it was great,but now it's going to be not married life.
So they want that to be great.
And with that, then,to really be successful in that divorce
transition, they need mindset managementand then the right information
and, and introductions,you know, if they weren't
(16:40):
managing their finances before,maybe they need an introduction
to great financial planner,tax accountants, real estate people,
some of these sort of core people.
But with that perspective in mind,we've shaped our brand around the fact
that we're really just interested inhelping you get to that great transition.
(17:02):
So that because we've all seen in familylaw, there are people
that years after their divorce,they're still languishing,
they're still suffering,they're living in the past.
And it's really hard to let that go.
We want our clientsto make that mental transition
and have those resources to be thrivingwithin months after their divorce.
(17:23):
If not, you know, a yearthey got the new home.
They're happy, they're reaching out,they're getting promotions at work,
all these things.
So we've added a divorce coach on staff.
We've got, a bunch of resources,and we're really mindful around
introducing peopleto the the other professionals they need.
And that's our brand.
And as we're trying to grow and develop,it's really
(17:45):
just a matter of getting that out there.
And understanding thatfor the legal fees you're paying,
which are not insignificant,we want to make sure that
people have that ability to,transition fully as
opposed to just end upwith a great divorce decree.
I loveI love that differentiation strategy.
(18:08):
I like, like you mentioned, there'sso much more to to, to a divorce
than simply getting the paper signed.
Right.
It is. It is.
How do you transition your lifestyle?
And being able to communicate that,I think, is going to give a lot of comfort
to, to your clients.
So I commend you for thinkingthrough that entire process
and what encourageall of our listeners to do the same.
(18:30):
Right.
Even if you're building a factorybecause you're focused on rinse
and repeat, you know, work,that doesn't mean that you can't also
include the human side of how are thesepeople actually going to feel
after this transaction takes place,and how can I help add value to that?
Yeah. It's,you know, on the matter of
mindset management with our divorce coachthat we put on staff,
(18:53):
that there's contractors out thereI know that do this stuff for law firms.
One of the things that's great about itis, you know,
they're working with the coach,they're neutralizing the buttons
that their soon to be ex spousestraditionally pushed.
But as a result of that,they always work with the coach
in advance of any mediation sessionswe do or other ADR.
(19:14):
So thatthen they can make really good decisions.
They can look at things objectively.
They're not, so emotionally distraughtor tense and anxious and those things.
And so they're making better decisionsin their divorce settlements.
Plus then they take those skillson to their, future life.
(19:34):
That's so great.
That's a really,really unique perspective.
That I think more law firms can adopt.
Yeah.
I, I'm a big fanof looking at other industries.
You know, frankly,I was influenced by a couple television
shows over the last couple decades.
(19:56):
Back at the turn of the century,there was a show called
Nip Tuck with plastic surgeonsthat had a psychiatrist on staff
to make sure that their patients weren't,you know, so something
that they were pursuing plastic surgery.
And that was kind of interesting.
And then years later, I saw billionswhere they had the performance
(20:16):
psychologist on staffto really make sure that their staff
members were in the right headspacefor all the work they were doing.
And it was just sort of like, well,our clients are so bereft
with so many of these emotionsaround the demise of their marriage, fear
for what's going to happen with the kids.
I'm going to keep the house, soI have to divide the retirement that was
they really need to be like,I'm kind of, you know, I was going on
(20:39):
almost 20 years of pseudo coaching clientswithout any training, as so many family
law attorneys do.
And and I was like, no,these people really need a professional
to help them with this.
And being able to integrate thatinto your process and communicated
in your marketing and have that be partof the ethos of your firm, is special.
(21:00):
I love it, Matt.
I am so appreciative of your time,your insights.
I love your differentiation strategy.
Wishing you all the best and look forwardto having you back on the show
soon. Awesome.
Thank you. I appreciate it.
Matt has built two successful law firms.
(00:03):
His current law firm is fully focusedon family law, and he goes beyond
just the transaction of a divorceand really helps his clients
move past this moment in timeby hiring specialists
to allow them to move forwardpost the divorce.
He is a special entrepreneurand I really hope
(00:23):
you enjoy the episode today.
Welcome back to the Sterling FamilyLaw Show,
the podcast designed to help law firmowners build the firm of their dreams.
I am your host Tyler Dolph,I am also the CEO of our hyper
focused marketing agency that worksexclusively with family law firms
(00:45):
across the country,and it was born out of our own law firm
that we've been buildingfor the last ten years.
That has grown to over 27 attorneystoday
we continue our owner operator series,and we interview Matt, who is the owner of
Atticus, law firm in Minneapolis.
He has a great family focused firmthat does not only divorce work,
(01:08):
but helps his clients move forwardafter that transaction happens.
I really hope you enjoy the episode today.
Matt,thank you so much for being with us today.
I am so excitedto hear about you and your firm.
Would you do me a kindnessand just introduce yourself
to our audienceand tell us a little bit about your firm
today? Sure.
My name is Matt Ludt.
I'm the founder of Atticus Family Law,serving,
(01:31):
divorce and other familylaw needs across the Twin Cities
Metro area, being Minneapolis, Saint Pauland then the surrounding suburbs.
We've got 15 people in our firm,four attorneys and actively,
building and growing.
That's awesome.
What were you doing before Atticus?
(01:53):
I had a different,firm that I had started and run.
It was a general practice.
Doing a little bit of everything.
And then in 2013, I decided to niche downinto just doing family law,
and now even more so, more than half ofour work is really just divorce.
(02:13):
And was there a reason, like.
Was there a moment in time where you said,I'm sick of trying to do everything
for everyone?
I need to focus or what?
What happened there?
Well, it was a period of transitionwith some staff leaving
and an opportunity to sort of redesignsome things.
And then in doing so,I had picked up on a lot of the virtues
(02:38):
of niching into particular areas.
And the more that you could be,concentrated into one area,
the greater expertisethat you can have there.
And just some of the advantagesthat come with not having to do
a bunch of disparate practice areas.
We made theexact same pivot ourselves at our firm.
(02:59):
And never looked back.
So that's fun to hear.
A similar storythere as you were niching down.
For us.
We had we got rid of 50% of the caseswe had.
We let some of our, you know, attorneys gothat weren't practicing family.
It was that transitionary perioddifficult for you?
Could you tell us a little bitabout how you were able to do that?
(03:20):
I hadn't been a very big general practice.
So then when this my main associate,who was full time, had the opportunity
to get her dream job outsideof the practice, private practice,
and then the other guy was a parttimer
that also went into the public sector.
(03:40):
It was really just all of a sudden,I was down to myself,
and I realized thatthat was the good opportunity to do that.
Also, like,by 2013, two things had happened. One.
All of the law studentsthat had gone through the Great Recession
and couldn't find jobs were really capableof making their own websites
(04:03):
and projecting experience.
For instance,like the ones that went into criminal
defense were doing DUIs for $500.
And sometimes that,those potential clients
can't really differentiateas to why they should be spending $3,500
on a DUI instead of 500.
(04:24):
And so that competition came in.
Plus phone books went out by that point.
And I with no incomewhen it came to criminal defense.
We've gotten a lot of clients from that.
And so all of a sudden,just the information age changed,
which made it easier to,start scrapping some of those other
practice areas that we didn'tthat had either a troublesome future
(04:48):
or just we didn't do a lot of.
And That's great.
So you've decided to practicesolium family law.
You're by yourself.
Talk to us about some of those early days.
Like what?
What did you learn aboutfocusing your firm hiring
for that focus building process around it?
(05:10):
Give us some Having startedone firm already ten years prior.
There were certain insightsand advantages I had, but ultimately,
the biggest advantageI came across at that
time was being online ready.
Meaning we are storing,you know, I had previously had servers
(05:33):
that hosted all of our data that thenwe could access some remotely as needed.
But by that time we were into the cloudin 2013 and I was able to start
identifying really qualifiedparalegals that could work part
time for me, along with whateverother client, firms
they were contracting with.
(05:54):
But then being able to pull everythingoff the cloud, put it back in the cloud,
started identifying, case managementthat allowed for some communications
that we weren't relying on email or text.
And so then I was able toadd staffing as I needed
(06:15):
without committing to a full time personand having to worry about having all the,
the revenue necessaryto keep up with that salary.
But instead it was just much more of aas I give them work,
they did the work and sometimes it's15 hours a week, sometimes it's 25.
But that was a nice proportional wayto start growing the firm,
you know, from 13 to 14and then probably into 15.
(06:40):
The the nature of being ableto do the repetitive work,
the same work over and over againallows you to create a lot of focus
and a lot of repetitive processso that your team isn't, you know, context
switching all day long.
They're able to do the same thingover and over again,
which createsa lot of efficiencies and profitability.
(07:01):
And soas you were growing and adding attorneys,
how did you have to change as a leaderto be able to support that?
Additional staff know that you couldn'tdo it all yourself anymore,
and you got to let go a little bit right?
Right.
And there's a lot of advantagesof delegating downward,
getting rid of the stuff that waybelow your pay grade,
(07:23):
especially as a firm owner.
You're like as,Michael Gerber talks about that, like,
as soon as you gointo working for yourself, you're both
the business owner and the technician.
So you're wearing two hats that reallydemand, like, full time attention.
And so then it's like,as much as you can delegate stuff off
(07:45):
your plate as a technicianand not be doing the filings
and the drafting and the first drafts,and you can give the stuff to a paralegal
or legal system.
The more you're able to focus onthat law firm development stuff
that is so easily relegatedand pushed off.
And I'll get to that, next weekor after the holidays or, you know, when
(08:10):
summer lets out and, you know,the kids go back to school,
like all those sort of promisesyou make yourself that,
really hinder your firm's development.
100%.
Were there any key hireskind of in those early days that have
stayed with you that you really are like,oh man, I'm so happy.
I found this person.
(08:30):
And they added a bunch of value to myYeah.
I can think, of a particular example.
There was, by the summer of 18,I needed another full time paralegal.
Plus, we wanted to bringin a legal secretary to do some stuff.
And so I found this paralegal,that we hired that was,
(08:58):
And but then we also hired this,legal secretary, and she was actually,
had scrapped her old job,and gone to paralegal school
and was halfway through paralegal schoolwhen we hired her as the legal secretary.
Thinking a little bit about the futurerelative to when she got done.
Well, within 90 days, we quickly realizedthe paralegal was not very good.
(09:22):
So I pulled the legal secretary asidewho had started a really impressed me,
and I was like, how would you like to takeon some paralegal duties?
And the next day we let the paralegalgo, promoted the legal secretary
to our new paralegal, even thosewho are still in paralegal school and,
and that was one of the easiest decisionswe ever made.
And then that paralegal still with meseven years later,
(09:45):
and she is just a rock star.
incredible.
And is she doing more than paralegal worktoday?
She'll be manage the firm.
How's her evolution changed?
Yes, she's highly capable,and she's in a position where,
kind of even with high caseloads,working with the attorneys that she does,
she can offer this opportunityto be kind of a junior case manager,
(10:08):
a primary point of contact for clientsso that they don't have to worry about
being frustrated with their attorneysbeing in mediations or meetings or court.
Yeah.
Matt, as you know, you'rein kind of unique situation from the other
law firm owners we've talked to.
And the fact that you've startedtwo law firms.
(10:29):
For our listeners who are thinking abouteither leaving their own,
you know, or leaving a large law firm,or they just graduated law school
and starting their own firm.
What are some like key lessonsor experiences that you could share
that could help them?
You know, take a shortcut.
Yeah.
(10:50):
So when I startedworking in like, 2013 and niching in,
I identified a lawyer, coach,and the one I happened to find
was based in the Twin Cities,even though he was working with attorneys.
Nationwide.
But it was, like, damn affordable, and Iit was like $1,200 a year or something
(11:13):
for quarterly meetings.
And it was just some really great insightthat was like customize going above
and beyond any conferencesI've been going to or webinars,
but it was really tailored to who I wasand what I was trying to do with the firm.
And so one of my biggest regrets was like,not having started with that back in 2003,
when I started my first firm.
(11:39):
And just theadvantage of coming in
and having a really good consultant and,you know, I ended up working with him
for like five yearsbefore I kind of outgrew them.
And then I've consistently workedwith some other sort of consultant
since then, to make surethat I've got my head screwed on straight.
And we're doing smart things for firmgrowth.
That is, that is overwhelminglythe number one answer
(12:03):
I get when I ask that questionis don't be afraid to ask for help.
Find someone who's been there, donethat, or a mentor or a coach
that can helpkeep you moving in the right direction.
I'm particularly interestedin the early days
when you had just signed up with,what were some of the things
that they were talking about?
Was it like,here's how you be an entrepreneur and run
(12:25):
a business that happens to be a law firm,or is it more on the attorney side?
No, it's mostlyon the business side of the firm.
Just a discipline around, like.
All right.
What'sbeen your revenue this last quarter?
Because as juniorlaw firm owners, you're not disciplined
enough to really be mindingall of your finances
(12:48):
in a business acumen way.
Yeah.
You worried about itrelative to your own income.
But just in regards to looking at it,the way in which business leaders do
with a level of sort of detachment,but then also, you know,
potential clients, your, your billing,what's your staffing at?
(13:10):
So it's really like definingthose metrics
and being able to track them. yeah.
But then also a little bit of like,what are you doing for
all of your marketing?
In my early days,I picked up a simple formula
that served me so very well,which is simply credibility.
(13:30):
And visibility equals profitability.
And when you design so muchlike you analyze what your
the chance would you have a chance to do?
Really organizesand prioritizes, you know, like
first time law firm owners, you know,they're always
so anxious to set up that damn Facebookprofile.
(13:51):
And yeah, that's going to give youa little bit of visibility
and maybe convey some of your credibility.
But it's not that big,you know, compared to all the other things
you could be spending your time doing,such as reaching out
to all of your high school, college,law school contacts, other colleagues,
former coworkers,and really getting,
you know, front and center with themand introducing them to the fact
(14:14):
that you've got your own practice now.
Do you want to grow your law firm, butyou can't predict next month's revenue.
Do you hire an attorney without knowingif you can actually afford it?
I hear you.
We have a planning systemthat forces us to focus.
It's built on these three key principles.
(14:34):
We are teaching this entire frameworkin a free 45 minute
webinar called the 2026Annual Planning Live.
Let's make next yearthe one that actually changes everything.
Yeah, it's still,the people to people
connection is still the strongest one.
What an interesting fact that we realizedas we were building our firm
(14:55):
and then building the agency was that,you know, almost 50% of all family law
firm leads come from the mapscome from a spouse realizing
they're getting a divorceand they search, you know,
divorce attorney near me or, familylaw attorney near me.
And, and firm ownerskind of have to embrace that fact.
I think there's so many firmsthat rely 100% on referrals, right?
(15:17):
Just their name and reputation,which is great.
Not knocking it.
But there's there'sa lot of leads out there.
And if you can build a systemto, to intake them, you can grow a firm
pretty fast.
Yeah.
The new will have your marketingdiversified,
you know, so you're not drawingtoo much upon one source.
Yeah.
(15:37):
So, Matt, as you think about the futureof your firm, where are you going?
Tell us.
Tell us about what you're working onand what you're hoping to achieve
over the next few years.
So we've gone in, well,a couple of years ago,
I came to the recognition thatour clients need
more than just a great divorce decree.
(15:58):
That's important.
That's, you know, having a little privaterulebook that serves just between
you and your ex as to how to governyour finances, your kids, cash flow,
all the things that still allow your livesto be co-mingled, that's essential.
But ultimately, people are going througha divorce transition towards,
(16:19):
trying to makea, you know, their next best life.
What? They had a married life.
Maybe it was great,but now it's going to be not married life.
So they want that to be great.
And with that, then,to really be successful in that divorce
transition, they need mindset managementand then the right information
and, and introductions,you know, if they weren't
(16:40):
managing their finances before,maybe they need an introduction
to great financial planner,tax accountants, real estate people,
some of these sort of core people.
But with that perspective in mind,we've shaped our brand around the fact
that we're really just interested inhelping you get to that great transition.
(17:02):
So that because we've all seen in familylaw, there are people
that years after their divorce,they're still languishing,
they're still suffering,they're living in the past.
And it's really hard to let that go.
We want our clientsto make that mental transition
and have those resources to be thrivingwithin months after their divorce.
(17:23):
If not, you know, a yearthey got the new home.
They're happy, they're reaching out,they're getting promotions at work,
all these things.
So we've added a divorce coach on staff.
We've got, a bunch of resources,and we're really mindful around
introducing peopleto the the other professionals they need.
And that's our brand.
And as we're trying to grow and develop,it's really
(17:45):
just a matter of getting that out there.
And understanding thatfor the legal fees you're paying,
which are not insignificant,we want to make sure that
people have that ability to,transition fully as
opposed to just end upwith a great divorce decree.
I loveI love that differentiation strategy.
(18:08):
I like, like you mentioned, there'sso much more to to, to a divorce
than simply getting the paper signed.
Right.
It is. It is.
How do you transition your lifestyle?
And being able to communicate that,I think, is going to give a lot of comfort
to, to your clients.
So I commend you for thinkingthrough that entire process
and what encourageall of our listeners to do the same.
(18:30):
Right.
Even if you're building a factorybecause you're focused on rinse
and repeat, you know, work,that doesn't mean that you can't also
include the human side of how are thesepeople actually going to feel
after this transaction takes place,and how can I help add value to that?
Yeah. It's,you know, on the matter of
mindset management with our divorce coachthat we put on staff,
(18:53):
that there's contractors out thereI know that do this stuff for law firms.
One of the things that's great about itis, you know,
they're working with the coach,they're neutralizing the buttons
that their soon to be ex spousestraditionally pushed.
But as a result of that,they always work with the coach
in advance of any mediation sessionswe do or other ADR.
(19:14):
So thatthen they can make really good decisions.
They can look at things objectively.
They're not, so emotionally distraughtor tense and anxious and those things.
And so they're making better decisionsin their divorce settlements.
Plus then they take those skillson to their, future life.
(19:34):
That's so great.
That's a really,really unique perspective.
That I think more law firms can adopt.
Yeah.
I, I'm a big fanof looking at other industries.
You know, frankly,I was influenced by a couple television
shows over the last couple decades.
(19:56):
Back at the turn of the century,there was a show called
Nip Tuck with plastic surgeonsthat had a psychiatrist on staff
to make sure that their patients weren't,you know, so something
that they were pursuing plastic surgery.
And that was kind of interesting.
And then years later, I saw billionswhere they had the performance
(20:16):
psychologist on staffto really make sure that their staff
members were in the right headspacefor all the work they were doing.
And it was just sort of like, well,our clients are so bereft
with so many of these emotionsaround the demise of their marriage, fear
for what's going to happen with the kids.
I'm going to keep the house, soI have to divide the retirement that was
they really need to be like,I'm kind of, you know, I was going on
(20:39):
almost 20 years of pseudo coaching clientswithout any training, as so many family
law attorneys do.
And and I was like, no,these people really need a professional
to help them with this.
And being able to integrate thatinto your process and communicated
in your marketing and have that be partof the ethos of your firm, is special.
(21:00):
I love it, Matt.
I am so appreciative of your time,your insights.
I love your differentiation strategy.
Wishing you all the best and look forwardto having you back on the show
soon. Awesome.
Thank you. I appreciate it.
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