January 6, 2026 • 23 mins
Are you frustrated with your law firm close rate? Tom just signed 5 of 7 consults last month. One change is driving those numbers.
We're tracking Tom's real numbers monthly as he scales his Long Island solo practice. No theory here, just what's working and what isn't.
Most attorneys default to Zoom because it's convenient. But Tom's 71% close rate comes from doing the opposite—showing up in person.
📲 Subscribe Now: https://www.youtube.com/@jsterlinghughes
📝 Get your FREE Law Firm Growth Guide: https://jsterlinghughes.com/
---
📄 CHAPTERS
0:00 - Law Firm Close Rate: Why Tom's Numbers Matter
0:56 - September Revenue Breakdown: $19.8K as a Solo
2:14 - The 71% Close Rate: 5 of 7 Consults Signed
3:49 - Why In-Person Consultations Convert Better
5:01 - Picking Your Second Office Location Strategically
5:22 - Hiring Your First Associate: What She's Looking For
8:03 - Quality of Life vs Salary: The Trade-Off That Works
12:40 - AI and Legal Marketing: What's Actually Happening
18:46 - How AI is Cutting Patent Fees in Half
20:25 - Clients Showing Up With ChatGPT Documents
----------------------
Ready to find the accountability partner you need to build your dream family law firm the same way we grew Sterling Lawyers?
Follow these steps:
1. SUBSCRIBE TO JEFF'S NEWSLETTER: https://jsterlinghughes.com/
2. BOOK A FREE 30-MINUTE AUDIT WITH US: https://rocketclicks.com/schedule-a-family-law-quick-audit/
3. CONNECT WITH US:
LinkedIn: Jeff Hughes, Tyler Dolph, & Anthony Karls,
Facebook: Jeff Hughes, Tyler Dolph, & Anthony Karls,
Instagram: Jeff Hughes, Tyler Dolph, & Anthony Karls
4. TELL US WHAT YOU WANT:
Tell us in the comments if you liked this episode and what other kinds of episodes you would like to see.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
One thing we find all the time is that people use
uh incognito browsers way moreon family law searches than they
do for you know anything elsebecause they don't want anyone
knowing that they're looking forthis stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (00:12):
Hello and welcome to the Sterling Family Law Show.
We are back with attorney TomHarton on Long Island.
We've been following Tom forwell over a year as he started
his practice, and we justconcluded September.
We're sitting here in October of2025, and we're talking about
his numbers and results fromlast month, where he's at on
hiring his first associate, andmoving his office, his second
(00:36):
location is not working out tohis satisfaction.
We're gonna be moving that, andhe wants to move that to a
better spot.
So we're gonna talk thatthrough, and then we're gonna
conclude with AI and some of theinteresting things that we're
worried about, concerned about,opportunities with AI and family
law practice.
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
All right, we are back with our friend Tom.
Another month of your uhwonderful law firm going.
Give us the high level.
How was September?
And uh, Jeff, I'll let you uhkick it off with a few more
questions.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02):
Yeah, hey Tyler.
Hey Jeff, thanks for having meback.
Uh September was uh pretty goodmonth.
Uh, you know, I'm shooting, Idon't have like a hard number
that I'm shooting for.
Um like minimum 20, probablytrying to, as far as as long as
it's still me doing all thelegal work, you know, trying to
get somewhere between 20 and 25.
Uh so this month's revenue was19,000, about 19,800.
(01:24):
So pretty much right there.
Um, you know, love for that tobe a little bit higher, but um
comfortable with that month.
Um it also was, you know, as youknow, I still do some patent
work as well.
And it was a it was a busy monthon that front.
So there was, again, probablysimilar to the previous month
where I had taken a vacation,uh, probably more work.
I had more work that I actuallydid that.
(01:44):
Sorry, I could have done morework than I actually did.
Um, you know, not a ton, but Iprobably could have gotten up to
that low to mid-20 range um if Ihad some more time.
Um, but yeah, leads leads seemedpretty steady.
Um I've seen a little bit of adip since like I I think I hit a
high point in my leads in likeMay or June, and seeing I don't
(02:08):
know if I'd call it a dip, likea you know, tiny, like each
month has gone down like a tinylittle bit um in terms of like
the call volume that I'mgetting.
Um but I had, you know, stillhad seven consults this month
and and five of those turnedinto hires.
So pretty good month in terms ofbringing in new clients.
Um, I think two of those caseswill probably wind up being
(02:30):
pretty good ones because I haduh like I I think, you know, I
don't know if this is the samefor you guys, but sometimes you
just have a couple of thosecases going at once that wind up
being like most of your revenue.
Maybe it's not for you becauseyou're a fixed fee, but you
know, where everything is justemergency, emergency, emergency,
and and you look back in acouple months and you're like,
(02:50):
whoa, I just did like 30 grandon one case in a couple months,
which you know that's likeequivalent of like five other
cases, you know.
Um so yeah, that I two two casesthat I think will be bigger ones
like that, and then threesmaller ones.
Again, you never know what couldhappen.
Um a small one could turn into abig one and and vice versa, a
big one could wrap upimmediately.
So that's just a prediction, ofcourse.
(03:12):
Um expenses again stayed thesame.
Um, so yeah, bottom line profitof of just under 13k.
SPEAKER_01 (03:18):
It's a great month.
I mean, the the close rate I wasthe most excited about, you
know, have the seven yeah,that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (03:24):
And I I think one of the other ones, I think it was
in early September uh that I metwith.
She I think she's gonna sign.
She just keeps having little,she's older and she keeps having
little issues with getting here.
We had an appointment last week,she had to cancel it, doctor's
appointment.
And I don't think she's lying.
I think she's I I do thinkshe'll sign.
And that'll that's actually agood case too.
SPEAKER_02 (03:42):
So yeah.
Yeah, I look at the last threemonths here.
You've had 19 consults and 10hires, so whatever you're doing
in the consult room is working.
SPEAKER_00 (03:52):
Yeah, I think I think being able to do them in
person is nice.
Um, and again, I I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (04:00):
Are all of those 19 in person?
SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
Uh largely, yeah.
Maybe one or two of them wasn't,but I I pretty much unless the
client asks, I I do them inperson.
SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
Yeah, definitely.
You'll get a hire.
Some people, some people.
SPEAKER_00 (04:12):
Yeah.
Um yeah.
And that's something I'm tryingto keep up as I as I look to
expand, uh, which is why I'mhaving some issues that we're
gonna talk a little bit about.
I don't want to harp on itbecause I I feel like we keep
talking about it.
Um, but you know, my next officewhere it's the location and
everything like that.
Because I like I'd like to keepthat up.
The in-person consults.
SPEAKER_02 (04:34):
Yeah.
So you pulled out 7,000 bucks inexpenses, ending the month at
about 13 grand in bottom line.
SPEAKER_00 (04:41):
Yeah.
Yeah, my expenses again, theythey stay about, they stay
pretty much the same everymonth.
It's Rocket Clicks, officeexpense, a couple of softwares
which are just recurring.
SPEAKER_02 (04:52):
Well, last month we talked about your second
location, which has not beenfruitful, and you're getting
impatient about hanging on toit.
Maybe we should switch to adifferent one is kind of what
you're going through.
So let's kind of unwrap that alittle bit more.
Where where's your head ataround that?
SPEAKER_00 (05:07):
Yeah, I've I've pretty much made the decision to
move that location.
I kind of made that decisionlike a few months ago.
Um, but I I definitelydefinitely am going ahead with
it at this point.
Um and you know, as I look tohire somebody, I am kind of have
this conversation uh, you know,together.
I'm looking to hire somebody,and I'm 99% sure I have someone
(05:28):
that's ready to go.
Um so and I am almost positiveshe's gonna join.
Can't say too much on that topicyet, but yeah, we've we've had
we've met a couple times, we'vehad a few discussions, but you
know, we're in agreement on allthe all major issues, you know,
salaries and and everything likethat.
Um so I'm I'm really excitedabout it.
She's she's very experienced.
(05:48):
She's you know, she was referredto me by somebody who so she's
you know she's well liked.
I trust this person.
So um yeah, I think I think it'sit's gonna be awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (05:57):
It's a huge next step.
SPEAKER_00 (05:59):
Yeah, it is.
So my problem where it comes inon the office front is she lives
she lives very far east on LongIsland.
And the way Long Island works isthe further east you go, the
less populous it gets.
There's still some very wealthyareas out there, right?
Like you have the Hamptons, youhave you know, Montauk and the
North Fork.
There's there's there's a lot ofwealthy areas out there, but I
(06:20):
I'm not I don't want to open anoffice like way out there where
the the population densitystarts dropping off.
Um so trying to find a locationthat is suitable for me in terms
of like the you know, theincome, you know, average like
household income and populationdensity and and everything like
that, but that is suitable forher because I, as I said, I want
to I want to keep up doing inin-person consultations and you
(06:43):
know, we've gone back and fortha bunch on the location, and
I've been like, you know, whatabout this?
What about this?
What about this town?
And I could tell, like, youknow, she even to like the
furthest location I would go,the furthest out east I would go
is still like a half an hourdrive for her.
Whereas some of the other onesare more like 45-50 minutes.
So I understand where whereshe's like, you know, I'm okay
(07:05):
with that as long as I'm notlike expected to come in every
day.
And I my my thing is I I don'tcare how how often you come in,
I'm not really gonna, I might gothere once a week.
Like I'm not, you know, I'm notgonna certainly be there every
day, so I don't expect you to bethere every day.
But I also don't want it to getto a point where we're busy and
things like in-person consultsand and stuff like that start
dropping off because I selectedan office that's an hour away
(07:26):
from her.
So I have to take that intoaccount too.
SPEAKER_02 (07:28):
So how close will your second office be, your new
second office be to her?
SPEAKER_00 (07:34):
That's what I'm still trying to figure out.
Uh I think I have like I havekind of three locations that I'm
deciding between.
Probably two of them are about45 minutes from her, the other
one is about 25 minutes.
SPEAKER_02 (07:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (07:51):
Um, yeah.
And she's supportive of theplan?
Yeah, yeah, she is.
She's coming.
SPEAKER_02 (07:58):
What have been her main questions she's wanted to
understand about joining yourfirm?
I'm just curious as to whatshe's looking at.
SPEAKER_00 (08:05):
Yeah, she so, you know, the firm she's coming from
is a high salary but highburnout firm.
They're they're known on theisland.
They're, you know, they are, ifnot the most well-known,
probably one of the top threemost well-known firms around
here.
They advertise.
This is a firm that has like ahundred K a month advertising
budget.
You know, they're they'reeverywhere.
(08:25):
Um again, I don't want to saythe name of the firm, but they
yeah, so she, you know, I guessconcerns are you know what
salary hit she she can expect totake.
Um, and again, I I'll talk moreabout this in future episodes
when everything's solidified,but she you know, understands
that up front that the thesalary that I can offer is not
(08:47):
you know not anywhere close towhat she, I don't want to say
not anywhere close, but it's agood amount less than what she's
making there, but she's gonna beyou know working significantly
less.
She's like she's so burnt out,she cannot wait to get out of
there.
SPEAKER_02 (09:02):
Yeah.
Um so quality of life is a majorfactor.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:07):
Yeah, right.
That's yeah, they're definitelyby far the biggest factor.
Um, and then, you know, I guess,you know, so concerns for her is
you know, I'm gonna put her on,I'm gonna, you know, pay her to
an extent based on likeperformance and and hours and
and stuff like that.
Um so obviously I have toguarantee some of that, but part
of that is also gonna be megetting her busy enough that she
(09:28):
can do that work so that I I canget her back to her old salary
or or you know, close to it,reasonably close to it,
considering that she, you know,we'll be working significantly
less.
And there's, you know, while wehad a few discussions like um,
so here what they call panelwork.
I don't know if if they have thesame thing by you, but um, you
know, where the state basicallyyou can take work that the state
(09:50):
pays you for in family court.
Um, and it's it's really goodfor I think she really wants to
do it because it you you stillget paid like a decent amount.
Um and it's you know it's a goodway to get to know the judges.
Um, you know, so you mightrepresent like children, like be
like an attorney for the childin cases like that.
Um so you know, it it she saidlike you know, while she's
(10:10):
making less and she's notoverwhelmingly busy, yet would I
be okay with her doing that?
I said, absolutely, yeah.
That's that's kind of a win-win.
Um, you know, she'll get to knowmore of the judges and she'll
get to make a little bit of ofextra money that I'm not I don't
have to pay her as long as it'snot you know interfering with
the work I'm giving her, I haveno problem with it.
unknown (10:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:28):
Yeah, I was gonna ask if you're gonna count that
towards revenue to your firm,but it sounds like you're just
gonna let her know this.
SPEAKER_00 (10:35):
No, definitely not.
SPEAKER_02 (10:36):
Yeah.
So have you talked aboutincentives above the base with
her?
Is that been something she'sbeen curious about?
SPEAKER_00 (10:43):
Yeah, we've we've had a a little back and forth.
Um I don't yeah, I I guess Iwon't talk about that too much
yet because you know we haven'tagreed on anything yet.
And yeah, I don't want to givetoo much away, but I will I will
have those answers.
But um yeah, and it's obviouslyit will be like you know, a
percentage of her, she'll get abase salary, you know, a
percentage and a percentage ofcases.
(11:04):
And if you know if that goesover her base salary, she'd get
paid that, and and thatpercentage is higher if she
brings in the case.
So kind of trying to encourage,especially in the beginning.
Um, I know she loves networkingand stuff like that.
Um, so you know, if she can ifshe wants to spend some time
while she's less busy and go outand get more cases and make more
money on those, that's that's awin-win for both of us, also.
SPEAKER_02 (11:27):
So yeah.
For some attorneys, even havinga networking budget of a hundred
a month or a couple hundred amonth is a big, big deal.
So maybe that might help her,you know.
She might find them interesting.
Well, good.
Well, it's a developing story,so keep watching it for the next
couple months.
SPEAKER_00 (11:43):
Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm excited about it.
SPEAKER_01 (11:45):
Um it's a big step for you, Tom.
You know, going for uh beingable to multiply yourself and
leverage someone else to getsome of that work done is uh a
step not a lot of attorneystake, honestly.
SPEAKER_00 (11:57):
Yeah, and just I mean her her experience will be
invaluable.
Like certain certain things forme, still even you know, now
that I've been doing it over ayear, still probably take way
longer than they should, justbecause I, you know, I have to
triple check things to make sureI'm I'm doing them right.
And um, you know, she's she'sbeen practicing long enough that
(12:19):
she's not worried about I'm notworried about her making
mistakes like that.
So I I won't, you know, I'm notI won't be micromanaging her
cases, anything like that, youknow, high-level oversight, of
course, but you know, she canshe can basically run her cases
the way she wants to, which Ithat's probably another big
factor for her as well.
SPEAKER_02 (12:38):
Yeah.
Well, switching gears over to adifferent topic of AI, I know
you and we were talking prior tohitting the record button about
AI and how that's gonna impactsearch.
Do you have any thoughts as a IPattorney as to what you're
seeing?
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
Um as an IP attorney, no.
I do, I just I'm a podcastlistener.
Like, you know, I do this when II I listen to yours.
I listen to obviously listen toall yours.
I listen to plenty of otherpodcasts also.
Um I've just it's one of thosethings I'm hearing being talked
about a lot more recently is youknow, rather not that you know
the SEO is is dead.
(13:14):
Of course you get some of those.
I don't buy into that, but AImight start slowly chipping away
at at traditional SEO.
Um, you know, in terms meaninginstead of someone going to
Google to try to find theirlawyer, they might go to ChatGPT
or Anthropic or something, youknow, to find their lawyer.
So, you know, I was justcurious, you know, what what
we're doing or or what maybewhat we're planning on doing,
(13:35):
maybe we're not even doing ityet, but to make sure that, you
know, when that time comes, itcould be, you know, that could
be years away.
That could never happen, but youknow, with the way this stuff
moves, that that could happen inthree months.
It's not crazy, right?
So, you know, what are we doingor planning to do that, you
know, make sure if you know, tomake sure if in a I'm coming up
(13:55):
in AI searches and same same forthem as well.
And one of the interestingthings I saw is I don't know if
you saw this, um, it showed itwas like a study of where I
think it was specific toChatGPT, but where it pulls the
its data from uh and the numberthe number one source for the AI
model was Reddit.
SPEAKER_02 (14:16):
I've seen I've seen studies like that or surveys
like that, yeah.
That's that's crazy.
I don't even use Reddit, I don'teven have a name for it.
SPEAKER_00 (14:23):
I know.
I I I like find myself on itoccasionally, but yeah, same.
I don't I don't have a usernameor anything like that.
So um see I don't know is thatis that something worth I've
heard people say, um, you know,if if you can get on Reddit for
20 minutes a week and and answera couple questions, you know,
find some local subreddits inyour area, you know, Nassau
County, people looking for adivorce, and you can just answer
(14:46):
them, you know, that that mightbe, you know, that might get
give your firm some credit inthe A models, AI models, stuff
like that.
Um and I forget what the secondwas, but but Google was like
Google search was like the thirdor fourth one down, something
like that.
So I don't know, other things,things that like you might not
have thought to optimize forReddit six months ago, but if
(15:08):
that's where ChatGPT is pullingthe data from, it might be
something worth considering.
And it doesn't it's free, itdoesn't take much time.
SPEAKER_01 (15:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Purpose and intent, right?
Like what are people leveragingthe different platforms to do?
How are they leveraging?
Is it just research?
Are they ready to convert?
You know, are they just lookingaround?
And in this area, uh family lawthat's hypersensitive and
serious.
One thing we find all the timeis that people use uh incognito
(15:36):
browsers way more on family lawsearches than they do for you
know anything else because theydon't want anyone knowing that
they're looking for this stuff.
Uh and so uh when it comes downto attribution on the marketing
front, that always gets a littlegray area because if people are
using incognito, then there's noyou know tracking and and all
that.
So uh the large language modelsare are gonna play in that as
(15:59):
well as it relates to research,but then ultimately, how are
they gonna decide which firm touse?
SPEAKER_00 (16:07):
Yeah.
Yeah, and I don't I don't thinkanyone has an answer to that
question yet.
SPEAKER_01 (16:11):
Well, like I assume there'll be a lot of best of
who's the best attorney in myarea.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:18):
Hey family law firm leaders, my partner Tony Carls
just released his book where helays bare our precise blueprint
for growing sterling lawyersfrom zero to 17 million.
This is the blueprint that westill use daily.
And Tony explains it in verysimple terms.
The truth is, this is not simpleto do.
(16:39):
Success requires and demandshard work, but if you have the
patience and the work ethic todo it, your family law firm will
succeed.
Like you, Tom, I'm concernedabout the AI potentially
disrupting our model as well.
And I know I've talked to thefolks at RC about that quite a
bit, Tony in particular.
And what I've experienced sofar, because like you mentioned
(17:01):
the firm on Long Island thatspends 100K a month, we we spend
well over that in our pagesearch.
So I'm very attuned to what'shappening there.
And what we're seeing so far iswe're seeing a tiny bit of
cannibalization, but more thananything, AI is turning into
basically another layer on topof their search engine.
(17:22):
Right search.
Yeah, so it's not a researchspace now.
SPEAKER_00 (17:26):
Yeah, not even necessarily someone going to
ChatGPT, but if you what's theone for Google?
Is it Gemini?
Perplexity, one of those?
Yeah, it makes them up.
Gemini, yeah.
So like when you type intoGoogle divorce lawyer near me,
you you're starting to get thatAI box up top.
And that's you know, where arethey pulling?
I think it was it might havebeen perplexity now that we're
saying that out loud, uh, thatthat showed that was getting
(17:47):
their information from Reddit.
Um so yeah, just I don't know,different just things to
consider.
Again, it's not not somethingI'm worried about in the very
short term.
And yeah, it's not not gonnacompletely cannibalize local
SEO, but you know, like yousaid, if if now, you know, what
is the course of numbers now?
SPEAKER_02 (18:08):
Over the course of this year, we've invested a ton
of resources into just producingcontent, and that's ironically
turning out to help us quite abit in the AI models.
So all the stuff we're postingout there is helping us there.
So we're finding a lift,actually.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:26):
Cool's changing right in front of us.
SPEAKER_02 (18:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:29):
It is, and uh yeah.
I the the adoption in uh divorceand family law has been
relatively slow.
I can tell you, you know, I myother job is very tech heavy and
it's been wildly disruptive.
Like they, you know, in in inthe sense that you know budgets
are half cut in half compared towhat they were two years ago.
SPEAKER_02 (18:50):
IP budgets for big companies you're talking about?
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (18:54):
So like uh, you know, if the company was paying
10 grand per patent applicationand that, you know, they're now
offering like six.
SPEAKER_02 (19:01):
Wow.
Okay.
How much faster is it to use AIto write these applications?
SPEAKER_00 (19:06):
A lot faster.
SPEAKER_02 (19:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
I would say again, this isn't a patent log uh what
do you call it, podcast, but youknow, what used to take me to
draft a patent application, Idon't know, 20 to 25 hours, now
is 10 to 15.
SPEAKER_02 (19:21):
Wow.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (19:21):
So that's wild.
It's a big difference.
SPEAKER_02 (19:24):
The cut and piece is justified under that analysis.
SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
Yeah, it is.
I actually think you turn outbetter uh on a per patent basis.
But the question on that hasbeen what are companies gonna do
with that extra budget?
Are they gonna file twice asmany patents or are they just
gonna allocate that moneytowards other resources?
SPEAKER_02 (19:41):
Have you seen anything to indicate what
they're gonna do so far?
SPEAKER_00 (19:44):
Um so far we've seen a big increase in the number of
patents.
SPEAKER_02 (19:48):
Oh, who knows how far that will go.
SPEAKER_00 (19:50):
And that that's again, you know, we it's a it's
a small to mid sized companythat gets most of their work.
They they represent like two ofthe large top two of the The
world's top five patent filers.
So pretty much all of their workis from like two major clients.
So I can only speak to those twoclients.
You know, what other companiesare doing, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (20:11):
Well, transferring translating that to family law.
I mean, drafting an MSA, Iremember that used to take me
four or five hours total ifthere were any sort of
complicated provisions in there.
I'm sure that's way, way fasternow.
So we're we're seeing a littlebit of that already in our in
our practice.
SPEAKER_00 (20:27):
Yeah, right.
But it's, you know, that'sthat's always going to be a
smaller part of what we do, justyou know, in terms of you know,
writing, right?
I I don't know you whatpercentage of your you know job
was was drafting motions and andstuff like that, but you know,
it's not definitely not 100%like it is in patent law.
You know, that's the job.
Here we're you know, there'salways going to be client
(20:48):
counseling, there's always gonnabe going to court.
And I don't think in my lifetimethat's that's getting replaced
by AI anytime soon.
So I think we're definitelydefinitely safer on this end.
It's much more people heavy.
SPEAKER_02 (21:00):
I haven't drafted an MSA in probably 10 years, so I'm
I'm going off old data.
SPEAKER_01 (21:06):
Try one tonight, Jeff, too, you know, report.
SPEAKER_02 (21:10):
Well, we have clients coming to us a day with
like everything drafted.
Say here, here it is.
Here's here's what chat GPT gaveme.
So does this work?
SPEAKER_00 (21:18):
Well, you take that because I I wouldn't.
SPEAKER_02 (21:20):
Well, we would take them under a coaching, they
wouldn't be a normalfull-fledged client.
We'd just be like a doc revieweror something.
But yeah, sure, we'll take them.
SPEAKER_00 (21:28):
Yeah, I guess I'd equate it to like taking work,
you know, where someone's hadlike two or three attorneys
before that.
And uh and I still take the workagain because I'm you know I'm
newer and I'll take you knowreasonable cases that come in.
But I I've had a few cases whereI'm like, even me who hasn't
been doing this, you know, longcompared to a lot of the other
attorneys, I get these docketsand I'm like, what the hell
(21:48):
happened?
That's I I mean I see the samething from Chat GPT.
I'm I'm like, I'm gonna submitthis and one of these cases is
gonna be fake.
Like in the amount of time it'staken me to check all the you
know citations and everything, Icould have just written
something myself.
SPEAKER_02 (22:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:03):
Why why come to me with something that's already
drafted?
SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
I I don't know, that's an interesting point.
If we believe that that themodels are gonna continue to get
smarter and better, then itwould behoove us to not build a
process for assuming that thisis gonna continue to happen,
right?
People are gonna continue to tryand get as much work done or
leverage Chat GBT to get thedocs.
(22:27):
And whether they're right ornot, they're gonna become
probably more right over time.
SPEAKER_00 (22:32):
Yeah.
I I also just think that again,comparing it to the other work
that I do, there's thisemotional component that you
could point people to a textbookand say, here's the answer, and
they're gonna, they're stillgonna say no.
I want to get in front of ajudge and argue my point.
SPEAKER_02 (22:48):
Yeah, right.
True.
SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
So happy to help.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
So well, good.
SPEAKER_02 (22:54):
Thank you, Tom.
Thanks for coming back on.
We'll see you uh next month.
SPEAKER_00 (22:58):
Yeah, of course.
Thanks, guys.
One thing we find all the time is that people use
uh incognito browsers way moreon family law searches than they
do for you know anything elsebecause they don't want anyone
knowing that they're looking forthis stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (00:12):
Hello and welcome to the Sterling Family Law Show.
We are back with attorney TomHarton on Long Island.
We've been following Tom forwell over a year as he started
his practice, and we justconcluded September.
We're sitting here in October of2025, and we're talking about
his numbers and results fromlast month, where he's at on
hiring his first associate, andmoving his office, his second
(00:36):
location is not working out tohis satisfaction.
We're gonna be moving that, andhe wants to move that to a
better spot.
So we're gonna talk thatthrough, and then we're gonna
conclude with AI and some of theinteresting things that we're
worried about, concerned about,opportunities with AI and family
law practice.
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
All right, we are back with our friend Tom.
Another month of your uhwonderful law firm going.
Give us the high level.
How was September?
And uh, Jeff, I'll let you uhkick it off with a few more
questions.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02):
Yeah, hey Tyler.
Hey Jeff, thanks for having meback.
Uh September was uh pretty goodmonth.
Uh, you know, I'm shooting, Idon't have like a hard number
that I'm shooting for.
Um like minimum 20, probablytrying to, as far as as long as
it's still me doing all thelegal work, you know, trying to
get somewhere between 20 and 25.
Uh so this month's revenue was19,000, about 19,800.
(01:24):
So pretty much right there.
Um, you know, love for that tobe a little bit higher, but um
comfortable with that month.
Um it also was, you know, as youknow, I still do some patent
work as well.
And it was a it was a busy monthon that front.
So there was, again, probablysimilar to the previous month
where I had taken a vacation,uh, probably more work.
I had more work that I actuallydid that.
(01:44):
Sorry, I could have done morework than I actually did.
Um, you know, not a ton, but Iprobably could have gotten up to
that low to mid-20 range um if Ihad some more time.
Um, but yeah, leads leads seemedpretty steady.
Um I've seen a little bit of adip since like I I think I hit a
high point in my leads in likeMay or June, and seeing I don't
(02:08):
know if I'd call it a dip, likea you know, tiny, like each
month has gone down like a tinylittle bit um in terms of like
the call volume that I'mgetting.
Um but I had, you know, stillhad seven consults this month
and and five of those turnedinto hires.
So pretty good month in terms ofbringing in new clients.
Um, I think two of those caseswill probably wind up being
(02:30):
pretty good ones because I haduh like I I think, you know, I
don't know if this is the samefor you guys, but sometimes you
just have a couple of thosecases going at once that wind up
being like most of your revenue.
Maybe it's not for you becauseyou're a fixed fee, but you
know, where everything is justemergency, emergency, emergency,
and and you look back in acouple months and you're like,
(02:50):
whoa, I just did like 30 grandon one case in a couple months,
which you know that's likeequivalent of like five other
cases, you know.
Um so yeah, that I two two casesthat I think will be bigger ones
like that, and then threesmaller ones.
Again, you never know what couldhappen.
Um a small one could turn into abig one and and vice versa, a
big one could wrap upimmediately.
So that's just a prediction, ofcourse.
(03:12):
Um expenses again stayed thesame.
Um, so yeah, bottom line profitof of just under 13k.
SPEAKER_01 (03:18):
It's a great month.
I mean, the the close rate I wasthe most excited about, you
know, have the seven yeah,that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (03:24):
And I I think one of the other ones, I think it was
in early September uh that I metwith.
She I think she's gonna sign.
She just keeps having little,she's older and she keeps having
little issues with getting here.
We had an appointment last week,she had to cancel it, doctor's
appointment.
And I don't think she's lying.
I think she's I I do thinkshe'll sign.
And that'll that's actually agood case too.
SPEAKER_02 (03:42):
So yeah.
Yeah, I look at the last threemonths here.
You've had 19 consults and 10hires, so whatever you're doing
in the consult room is working.
SPEAKER_00 (03:52):
Yeah, I think I think being able to do them in
person is nice.
Um, and again, I I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (04:00):
Are all of those 19 in person?
SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
Uh largely, yeah.
Maybe one or two of them wasn't,but I I pretty much unless the
client asks, I I do them inperson.
SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
Yeah, definitely.
You'll get a hire.
Some people, some people.
SPEAKER_00 (04:12):
Yeah.
Um yeah.
And that's something I'm tryingto keep up as I as I look to
expand, uh, which is why I'mhaving some issues that we're
gonna talk a little bit about.
I don't want to harp on itbecause I I feel like we keep
talking about it.
Um, but you know, my next officewhere it's the location and
everything like that.
Because I like I'd like to keepthat up.
The in-person consults.
SPEAKER_02 (04:34):
Yeah.
So you pulled out 7,000 bucks inexpenses, ending the month at
about 13 grand in bottom line.
SPEAKER_00 (04:41):
Yeah.
Yeah, my expenses again, theythey stay about, they stay
pretty much the same everymonth.
It's Rocket Clicks, officeexpense, a couple of softwares
which are just recurring.
SPEAKER_02 (04:52):
Well, last month we talked about your second
location, which has not beenfruitful, and you're getting
impatient about hanging on toit.
Maybe we should switch to adifferent one is kind of what
you're going through.
So let's kind of unwrap that alittle bit more.
Where where's your head ataround that?
SPEAKER_00 (05:07):
Yeah, I've I've pretty much made the decision to
move that location.
I kind of made that decisionlike a few months ago.
Um, but I I definitelydefinitely am going ahead with
it at this point.
Um and you know, as I look tohire somebody, I am kind of have
this conversation uh, you know,together.
I'm looking to hire somebody,and I'm 99% sure I have someone
(05:28):
that's ready to go.
Um so and I am almost positiveshe's gonna join.
Can't say too much on that topicyet, but yeah, we've we've had
we've met a couple times, we'vehad a few discussions, but you
know, we're in agreement on allthe all major issues, you know,
salaries and and everything likethat.
Um so I'm I'm really excitedabout it.
She's she's very experienced.
(05:48):
She's you know, she was referredto me by somebody who so she's
you know she's well liked.
I trust this person.
So um yeah, I think I think it'sit's gonna be awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (05:57):
It's a huge next step.
SPEAKER_00 (05:59):
Yeah, it is.
So my problem where it comes inon the office front is she lives
she lives very far east on LongIsland.
And the way Long Island works isthe further east you go, the
less populous it gets.
There's still some very wealthyareas out there, right?
Like you have the Hamptons, youhave you know, Montauk and the
North Fork.
There's there's there's a lot ofwealthy areas out there, but I
(06:20):
I'm not I don't want to open anoffice like way out there where
the the population densitystarts dropping off.
Um so trying to find a locationthat is suitable for me in terms
of like the you know, theincome, you know, average like
household income and populationdensity and and everything like
that, but that is suitable forher because I, as I said, I want
to I want to keep up doing inin-person consultations and you
(06:43):
know, we've gone back and fortha bunch on the location, and
I've been like, you know, whatabout this?
What about this?
What about this town?
And I could tell, like, youknow, she even to like the
furthest location I would go,the furthest out east I would go
is still like a half an hourdrive for her.
Whereas some of the other onesare more like 45-50 minutes.
So I understand where whereshe's like, you know, I'm okay
(07:05):
with that as long as I'm notlike expected to come in every
day.
And I my my thing is I I don'tcare how how often you come in,
I'm not really gonna, I might gothere once a week.
Like I'm not, you know, I'm notgonna certainly be there every
day, so I don't expect you to bethere every day.
But I also don't want it to getto a point where we're busy and
things like in-person consultsand and stuff like that start
dropping off because I selectedan office that's an hour away
(07:26):
from her.
So I have to take that intoaccount too.
SPEAKER_02 (07:28):
So how close will your second office be, your new
second office be to her?
SPEAKER_00 (07:34):
That's what I'm still trying to figure out.
Uh I think I have like I havekind of three locations that I'm
deciding between.
Probably two of them are about45 minutes from her, the other
one is about 25 minutes.
SPEAKER_02 (07:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (07:51):
Um, yeah.
And she's supportive of theplan?
Yeah, yeah, she is.
She's coming.
SPEAKER_02 (07:58):
What have been her main questions she's wanted to
understand about joining yourfirm?
I'm just curious as to whatshe's looking at.
SPEAKER_00 (08:05):
Yeah, she so, you know, the firm she's coming from
is a high salary but highburnout firm.
They're they're known on theisland.
They're, you know, they are, ifnot the most well-known,
probably one of the top threemost well-known firms around
here.
They advertise.
This is a firm that has like ahundred K a month advertising
budget.
You know, they're they'reeverywhere.
(08:25):
Um again, I don't want to saythe name of the firm, but they
yeah, so she, you know, I guessconcerns are you know what
salary hit she she can expect totake.
Um, and again, I I'll talk moreabout this in future episodes
when everything's solidified,but she you know, understands
that up front that the thesalary that I can offer is not
(08:47):
you know not anywhere close towhat she, I don't want to say
not anywhere close, but it's agood amount less than what she's
making there, but she's gonna beyou know working significantly
less.
She's like she's so burnt out,she cannot wait to get out of
there.
SPEAKER_02 (09:02):
Yeah.
Um so quality of life is a majorfactor.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:07):
Yeah, right.
That's yeah, they're definitelyby far the biggest factor.
Um, and then, you know, I guess,you know, so concerns for her is
you know, I'm gonna put her on,I'm gonna, you know, pay her to
an extent based on likeperformance and and hours and
and stuff like that.
Um so obviously I have toguarantee some of that, but part
of that is also gonna be megetting her busy enough that she
(09:28):
can do that work so that I I canget her back to her old salary
or or you know, close to it,reasonably close to it,
considering that she, you know,we'll be working significantly
less.
And there's, you know, while wehad a few discussions like um,
so here what they call panelwork.
I don't know if if they have thesame thing by you, but um, you
know, where the state basicallyyou can take work that the state
(09:50):
pays you for in family court.
Um, and it's it's really goodfor I think she really wants to
do it because it you you stillget paid like a decent amount.
Um and it's you know it's a goodway to get to know the judges.
Um, you know, so you mightrepresent like children, like be
like an attorney for the childin cases like that.
Um so you know, it it she saidlike you know, while she's
(10:10):
making less and she's notoverwhelmingly busy, yet would I
be okay with her doing that?
I said, absolutely, yeah.
That's that's kind of a win-win.
Um, you know, she'll get to knowmore of the judges and she'll
get to make a little bit of ofextra money that I'm not I don't
have to pay her as long as it'snot you know interfering with
the work I'm giving her, I haveno problem with it.
unknown (10:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:28):
Yeah, I was gonna ask if you're gonna count that
towards revenue to your firm,but it sounds like you're just
gonna let her know this.
SPEAKER_00 (10:35):
No, definitely not.
SPEAKER_02 (10:36):
Yeah.
So have you talked aboutincentives above the base with
her?
Is that been something she'sbeen curious about?
SPEAKER_00 (10:43):
Yeah, we've we've had a a little back and forth.
Um I don't yeah, I I guess Iwon't talk about that too much
yet because you know we haven'tagreed on anything yet.
And yeah, I don't want to givetoo much away, but I will I will
have those answers.
But um yeah, and it's obviouslyit will be like you know, a
percentage of her, she'll get abase salary, you know, a
percentage and a percentage ofcases.
(11:04):
And if you know if that goesover her base salary, she'd get
paid that, and and thatpercentage is higher if she
brings in the case.
So kind of trying to encourage,especially in the beginning.
Um, I know she loves networkingand stuff like that.
Um, so you know, if she can ifshe wants to spend some time
while she's less busy and go outand get more cases and make more
money on those, that's that's awin-win for both of us, also.
SPEAKER_02 (11:27):
So yeah.
For some attorneys, even havinga networking budget of a hundred
a month or a couple hundred amonth is a big, big deal.
So maybe that might help her,you know.
She might find them interesting.
Well, good.
Well, it's a developing story,so keep watching it for the next
couple months.
SPEAKER_00 (11:43):
Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm excited about it.
SPEAKER_01 (11:45):
Um it's a big step for you, Tom.
You know, going for uh beingable to multiply yourself and
leverage someone else to getsome of that work done is uh a
step not a lot of attorneystake, honestly.
SPEAKER_00 (11:57):
Yeah, and just I mean her her experience will be
invaluable.
Like certain certain things forme, still even you know, now
that I've been doing it over ayear, still probably take way
longer than they should, justbecause I, you know, I have to
triple check things to make sureI'm I'm doing them right.
And um, you know, she's she'sbeen practicing long enough that
(12:19):
she's not worried about I'm notworried about her making
mistakes like that.
So I I won't, you know, I'm notI won't be micromanaging her
cases, anything like that, youknow, high-level oversight, of
course, but you know, she canshe can basically run her cases
the way she wants to, which Ithat's probably another big
factor for her as well.
SPEAKER_02 (12:38):
Yeah.
Well, switching gears over to adifferent topic of AI, I know
you and we were talking prior tohitting the record button about
AI and how that's gonna impactsearch.
Do you have any thoughts as a IPattorney as to what you're
seeing?
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
Um as an IP attorney, no.
I do, I just I'm a podcastlistener.
Like, you know, I do this when II I listen to yours.
I listen to obviously listen toall yours.
I listen to plenty of otherpodcasts also.
Um I've just it's one of thosethings I'm hearing being talked
about a lot more recently is youknow, rather not that you know
the SEO is is dead.
(13:14):
Of course you get some of those.
I don't buy into that, but AImight start slowly chipping away
at at traditional SEO.
Um, you know, in terms meaninginstead of someone going to
Google to try to find theirlawyer, they might go to ChatGPT
or Anthropic or something, youknow, to find their lawyer.
So, you know, I was justcurious, you know, what what
we're doing or or what maybewhat we're planning on doing,
(13:35):
maybe we're not even doing ityet, but to make sure that, you
know, when that time comes, itcould be, you know, that could
be years away.
That could never happen, but youknow, with the way this stuff
moves, that that could happen inthree months.
It's not crazy, right?
So, you know, what are we doingor planning to do that, you
know, make sure if you know, tomake sure if in a I'm coming up
(13:55):
in AI searches and same same forthem as well.
And one of the interestingthings I saw is I don't know if
you saw this, um, it showed itwas like a study of where I
think it was specific toChatGPT, but where it pulls the
its data from uh and the numberthe number one source for the AI
model was Reddit.
SPEAKER_02 (14:16):
I've seen I've seen studies like that or surveys
like that, yeah.
That's that's crazy.
I don't even use Reddit, I don'teven have a name for it.
SPEAKER_00 (14:23):
I know.
I I I like find myself on itoccasionally, but yeah, same.
I don't I don't have a usernameor anything like that.
So um see I don't know is thatis that something worth I've
heard people say, um, you know,if if you can get on Reddit for
20 minutes a week and and answera couple questions, you know,
find some local subreddits inyour area, you know, Nassau
County, people looking for adivorce, and you can just answer
(14:46):
them, you know, that that mightbe, you know, that might get
give your firm some credit inthe A models, AI models, stuff
like that.
Um and I forget what the secondwas, but but Google was like
Google search was like the thirdor fourth one down, something
like that.
So I don't know, other things,things that like you might not
have thought to optimize forReddit six months ago, but if
(15:08):
that's where ChatGPT is pullingthe data from, it might be
something worth considering.
And it doesn't it's free, itdoesn't take much time.
SPEAKER_01 (15:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Purpose and intent, right?
Like what are people leveragingthe different platforms to do?
How are they leveraging?
Is it just research?
Are they ready to convert?
You know, are they just lookingaround?
And in this area, uh family lawthat's hypersensitive and
serious.
One thing we find all the timeis that people use uh incognito
(15:36):
browsers way more on family lawsearches than they do for you
know anything else because theydon't want anyone knowing that
they're looking for this stuff.
Uh and so uh when it comes downto attribution on the marketing
front, that always gets a littlegray area because if people are
using incognito, then there's noyou know tracking and and all
that.
So uh the large language modelsare are gonna play in that as
(15:59):
well as it relates to research,but then ultimately, how are
they gonna decide which firm touse?
SPEAKER_00 (16:07):
Yeah.
Yeah, and I don't I don't thinkanyone has an answer to that
question yet.
SPEAKER_01 (16:11):
Well, like I assume there'll be a lot of best of
who's the best attorney in myarea.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:18):
Hey family law firm leaders, my partner Tony Carls
just released his book where helays bare our precise blueprint
for growing sterling lawyersfrom zero to 17 million.
This is the blueprint that westill use daily.
And Tony explains it in verysimple terms.
The truth is, this is not simpleto do.
(16:39):
Success requires and demandshard work, but if you have the
patience and the work ethic todo it, your family law firm will
succeed.
Like you, Tom, I'm concernedabout the AI potentially
disrupting our model as well.
And I know I've talked to thefolks at RC about that quite a
bit, Tony in particular.
And what I've experienced sofar, because like you mentioned
(17:01):
the firm on Long Island thatspends 100K a month, we we spend
well over that in our pagesearch.
So I'm very attuned to what'shappening there.
And what we're seeing so far iswe're seeing a tiny bit of
cannibalization, but more thananything, AI is turning into
basically another layer on topof their search engine.
(17:22):
Right search.
Yeah, so it's not a researchspace now.
SPEAKER_00 (17:26):
Yeah, not even necessarily someone going to
ChatGPT, but if you what's theone for Google?
Is it Gemini?
Perplexity, one of those?
Yeah, it makes them up.
Gemini, yeah.
So like when you type intoGoogle divorce lawyer near me,
you you're starting to get thatAI box up top.
And that's you know, where arethey pulling?
I think it was it might havebeen perplexity now that we're
saying that out loud, uh, thatthat showed that was getting
(17:47):
their information from Reddit.
Um so yeah, just I don't know,different just things to
consider.
Again, it's not not somethingI'm worried about in the very
short term.
And yeah, it's not not gonnacompletely cannibalize local
SEO, but you know, like yousaid, if if now, you know, what
is the course of numbers now?
SPEAKER_02 (18:08):
Over the course of this year, we've invested a ton
of resources into just producingcontent, and that's ironically
turning out to help us quite abit in the AI models.
So all the stuff we're postingout there is helping us there.
So we're finding a lift,actually.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:26):
Cool's changing right in front of us.
SPEAKER_02 (18:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:29):
It is, and uh yeah.
I the the adoption in uh divorceand family law has been
relatively slow.
I can tell you, you know, I myother job is very tech heavy and
it's been wildly disruptive.
Like they, you know, in in inthe sense that you know budgets
are half cut in half compared towhat they were two years ago.
SPEAKER_02 (18:50):
IP budgets for big companies you're talking about?
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (18:54):
So like uh, you know, if the company was paying
10 grand per patent applicationand that, you know, they're now
offering like six.
SPEAKER_02 (19:01):
Wow.
Okay.
How much faster is it to use AIto write these applications?
SPEAKER_00 (19:06):
A lot faster.
SPEAKER_02 (19:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
I would say again, this isn't a patent log uh what
do you call it, podcast, but youknow, what used to take me to
draft a patent application, Idon't know, 20 to 25 hours, now
is 10 to 15.
SPEAKER_02 (19:21):
Wow.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (19:21):
So that's wild.
It's a big difference.
SPEAKER_02 (19:24):
The cut and piece is justified under that analysis.
SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
Yeah, it is.
I actually think you turn outbetter uh on a per patent basis.
But the question on that hasbeen what are companies gonna do
with that extra budget?
Are they gonna file twice asmany patents or are they just
gonna allocate that moneytowards other resources?
SPEAKER_02 (19:41):
Have you seen anything to indicate what
they're gonna do so far?
SPEAKER_00 (19:44):
Um so far we've seen a big increase in the number of
patents.
SPEAKER_02 (19:48):
Oh, who knows how far that will go.
SPEAKER_00 (19:50):
And that that's again, you know, we it's a it's
a small to mid sized companythat gets most of their work.
They they represent like two ofthe large top two of the The
world's top five patent filers.
So pretty much all of their workis from like two major clients.
So I can only speak to those twoclients.
You know, what other companiesare doing, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (20:11):
Well, transferring translating that to family law.
I mean, drafting an MSA, Iremember that used to take me
four or five hours total ifthere were any sort of
complicated provisions in there.
I'm sure that's way, way fasternow.
So we're we're seeing a littlebit of that already in our in
our practice.
SPEAKER_00 (20:27):
Yeah, right.
But it's, you know, that'sthat's always going to be a
smaller part of what we do, justyou know, in terms of you know,
writing, right?
I I don't know you whatpercentage of your you know job
was was drafting motions and andstuff like that, but you know,
it's not definitely not 100%like it is in patent law.
You know, that's the job.
Here we're you know, there'salways going to be client
(20:48):
counseling, there's always gonnabe going to court.
And I don't think in my lifetimethat's that's getting replaced
by AI anytime soon.
So I think we're definitelydefinitely safer on this end.
It's much more people heavy.
SPEAKER_02 (21:00):
I haven't drafted an MSA in probably 10 years, so I'm
I'm going off old data.
SPEAKER_01 (21:06):
Try one tonight, Jeff, too, you know, report.
SPEAKER_02 (21:10):
Well, we have clients coming to us a day with
like everything drafted.
Say here, here it is.
Here's here's what chat GPT gaveme.
So does this work?
SPEAKER_00 (21:18):
Well, you take that because I I wouldn't.
SPEAKER_02 (21:20):
Well, we would take them under a coaching, they
wouldn't be a normalfull-fledged client.
We'd just be like a doc revieweror something.
But yeah, sure, we'll take them.
SPEAKER_00 (21:28):
Yeah, I guess I'd equate it to like taking work,
you know, where someone's hadlike two or three attorneys
before that.
And uh and I still take the workagain because I'm you know I'm
newer and I'll take you knowreasonable cases that come in.
But I I've had a few cases whereI'm like, even me who hasn't
been doing this, you know, longcompared to a lot of the other
attorneys, I get these docketsand I'm like, what the hell
(21:48):
happened?
That's I I mean I see the samething from Chat GPT.
I'm I'm like, I'm gonna submitthis and one of these cases is
gonna be fake.
Like in the amount of time it'staken me to check all the you
know citations and everything, Icould have just written
something myself.
SPEAKER_02 (22:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:03):
Why why come to me with something that's already
drafted?
SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
I I don't know, that's an interesting point.
If we believe that that themodels are gonna continue to get
smarter and better, then itwould behoove us to not build a
process for assuming that thisis gonna continue to happen,
right?
People are gonna continue to tryand get as much work done or
leverage Chat GBT to get thedocs.
(22:27):
And whether they're right ornot, they're gonna become
probably more right over time.
SPEAKER_00 (22:32):
Yeah.
I I also just think that again,comparing it to the other work
that I do, there's thisemotional component that you
could point people to a textbookand say, here's the answer, and
they're gonna, they're stillgonna say no.
I want to get in front of ajudge and argue my point.
SPEAKER_02 (22:48):
Yeah, right.
True.
SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
So happy to help.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
So well, good.
SPEAKER_02 (22:54):
Thank you, Tom.
Thanks for coming back on.
We'll see you uh next month.
SPEAKER_00 (22:58):
Yeah, of course.
Thanks, guys.
Popular Podcasts
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.
iHeartOlympics: The Latest
Listen to the latest news from the 2026 Winter Olympics.
Milan Cortina Winter Olympics
The 2026 Winter Olympics in Milan Cortina are here and have everyone talking. iHeartPodcasts is buzzing with content in honor of the XXV Winter Olympics We’re bringing you episodes from a variety of iHeartPodcast shows to help you keep up with the action. Follow Milan Cortina Winter Olympics so you don’t miss any coverage of the 2026 Winter Olympics, and if you like what you hear, be sure to follow each Podcast in the feed for more great content from iHeartPodcasts.