From Newsrooms to Newsletters – How Sarah Fenske Is Navigating the Future of Media in STL - The STL Bucket List Show

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_04 (00:00):
I hung on to this like to the Titanic as it's like
going down into the water forthe last time.
And I'm gonna have no regretsbecause I know I did everything
I could to try to save thispaper.

SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
If you wanna hear about Saint Louis, tune into the
Bucket List show weekly.
Hear what Marissa and Luke say.
It drops every Wednesday, got adope new guest every single
week.
Buckle up for the ride.
Who's it gonna be?
Who's on the show today?
They rap Saint Louis.
What to do in the loo on a latenight?

(00:37):
I baby what to do on a datenight.
Yeah.
Bucket list as you covered, theyknow what's going on.
What's going on?
They'll give you.
Hey, 18 different things to doon 19.
If you need one more to choose,yeah.
The city, city, city is a placewe call home.
A place we call home.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (00:53):
St.
Louis, welcome back to the STLBucket List show.
I am your host, Luke Farrell ofSTL Bucket List.
We've been doing this show since2022.
We have over 210 episodeshighlighting the people, places,
and events that make St.
Louis special.
Have one of those people in thestudio today.
I read her newsletter everysingle morning.
I'm huge fans of the work thatyou guys do at St.
Louis Magazine.
But I've been a fan of youbefore St.

(01:13):
Louis Magazine.
So we have Sarah Finski in thestudio today, uh, journalist,
podcaster, email newsletterwriter, um, influencer, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21):
Oh no, not influencer.

SPEAKER_05 (01:23):
Not influencer, kind of.
Um but I've seen you speak likeat the Explore St.
Louis, I've seen you moderateall these things, I've seen you
have these like conversations,and really I'm inspired by the
work that you guys do.
And when we got into thetraditional newsletter or when
we got into the print magazine,I think I ran into you that same
week at the Explore St.
Louis conference, and you werelike, Oh, congratulations! Like,
you know, and finally we'regetting on the podcast.

(01:44):
So I'm excited about that.
But I want to learn a little bitmore about your story because
you've had a lot of differentjourneys in your life.
Um, has has journalism andwriting always been your biggest
passion, or were there otherthings before that?

SPEAKER_04 (01:56):
By the time I became an adult, it was journalism all
the way.
Like I did not go to school forjournalism.
I I didn't go to a place thathad a journalism school, but I
kind of fell into it writing forthe campus newspaper, um, ended
up the editor of the campusnewspaper.
And then I was just hooked forlife.
Like I was like, why would I payfor grad school when I could get
paid, however pitifully, to dothis thing that is just so fun?

(02:19):
Like I literally fell in lovewith it.
It has been a very destructiveforce in my life because uh, you
know, it kind of interferes withall other loves and normal life
that you could have.
Cause it's like, it's a reallyintense job.
It's frankly a hard job to keepthese days.
Um, but it is the most fun jobyou could ever have.

(02:40):
And I'm sure you're you'reseeing this in your much younger
career.
It's just like, how would youwant to do anything else after
you've gotten a chance to dothis?

SPEAKER_05 (02:48):
I know, and telling stories, and like obviously you
tell real tough storiessometimes, and but you also tell
fun stories, and you also likeyour newsletter kind of has a
little bit of all of that that Ithat I get to read in those
bite-sized parts.
And then, you know, but I guessthe journey of journal of
journalism has changed so muchsince your career.
So, like from when youoriginally started to now, like
what are some of those thingsthat you think have changed

(03:09):
maybe for the better or maybefor the worse?
Because I think it's been a lotof different.
I mean, you've been through allthe hardest times as a
journalist.

SPEAKER_04 (03:15):
I'm kind of, I feel like I'm the end of I'm like the
last person who's hung on fromthe old era where you know, the
editor I had when I managed tolike sort of talk my way into an
internship, when again, I didn'thave a journalism major, um, you
know, he said, Oh, well, yourpath is very clear.
He said, You go work at a smalldaily newspaper somewhere
horrible, and they will work youso hard and you'll be there for

(03:38):
two years.
And if you can like get somebodyindicted or like write this big
series, then you can go work fora major metropolitan daily
newspaper, and that'll be therest of your life.
Like the goal was to end up at aplace like the Post Dispatch.
Yeah.
And they would pay people like anice middle class salary.

SPEAKER_03 (03:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (03:55):
You could just be there forever, have a union
protection, just work your beatevery day.
That was all I ever wanted.
Not specifically St.
Louis, but any place like St.
Louis.
I was it was a great big worldout there.
I wanted to live somewhere otherthan where I grew up.
And what I found, I went, triedto follow that advice.
I worked for a daily newspaperfor two years and got the mayor

(04:16):
indicted, wrote the big project.
And then I go to apply to themajor metropolitan newspaper,
and they're like, yeah, we'venever done this before, but we
actually just instituted ahiring freeze.
And that was the first of thehiring freezes that have
basically not stopped since thatera, which was the early aughts.
And that career path no longerexists.

(04:38):
You know, these days, if you getin at a place like the Post
Dispatch, you're getting inright out of college because
you're cheap.
They're gonna work you hard fora couple of years.
You might do really good work,you might stay longer than that.
There's certainly been somepeople who've been talented
enough to do that.
But mainly you're gonna do thatfor four or five years.
You're gonna go get a job in PRbecause that's where you're
meant to spend your career.

(04:59):
And so I've been kind of likeuh, you know, I've had an
unusual path of just kind ofjumping around, but I've been
able to kind of make it underthe old system where you've got
that sort of rigorous trainingof you have to go cover the
suburban planning commission andyou kind of learn the nuts and
bolts of government.
And from there you can get a jobwhere you can do the more
feature type stories and startto go bigger and broader.

(05:20):
And I've been really lucky tohave that career.
But in the time that I've hadthat career, everything around
me has changed.
The models no longer exist.
So many things have becomefocused on uh digital metrics,
page views, time on site, thingsthat were unthinkable when I was
first coming up.
I remember the first time Ipulled up a website to read the

(05:41):
news.
Uh, Newsweek had just broken thestory that uh there was this
intern that the president hadgotten involved with.
Really?

SPEAKER_05 (05:49):
That was the first time I was like, The first
internet article you ever read?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (05:52):
I'd never been on the internet before that.
I was like, I gotta figure thisout.
And I was like fascinated bythat story and became obsessed
with that story.
And I think one of the reasonsI've had the luck I've had in my
career is that I was always likeattracted to the internet and
like the power that it had tobreak stories in real time and
to get past these old schoolgatekeeper.
Um, you know, I'm realizing I'mtelling this story badly.

(06:13):
It wasn't that Newsweek had thestory.
Newsweek had spiked the story.
The Drudge Report broke thestory.
That was the first thing.
Yeah, they put it online.
And so, you know, I c I came ofage, even as I had hoped to
build this career under the oldmodel, I had great appreciation
and zest for the new model.

SPEAKER_02 (06:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (06:30):
And so, you know, I've spent a lot of my career in
alt weeklies, but at the sametime, these have been
altweeklies that have beenobsessed with trying to get as
many online readers as possible,maximizing those online page
views.
So I've kind of lived through acouple different eras.

SPEAKER_05 (06:44):
And working closely with like, because that's where
the advertising model and you'reon the writing, you're on the
journalism model.
So it's it's so different.
So I guess how did you end up inSt.
Louis?
What was that first job that youtook?
And like, what did you thinkwhen you ended up here?

SPEAKER_04 (06:55):
Oh man, yeah, that was wild.
So this was I had been anewspaper reporter and I'd been
a columnist, and I startedrealizing there were no longer
full-time columnist jobs.
Like nobody wanted to hire me togaze at my navel once a week.
Yeah.
You know, that was not asalaried position.

SPEAKER_02 (07:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (07:12):
Um, so I threw my hat in the ring uh to become an
editor.
And the company there would justmove editors around the country
to get trained.
You'd be like a mid-level editorat one of their papers.
That company owned theRiverfront Times.
And this was like four ownershipgroups ago.
Um, and they moved me here.
I initially did not want to movehere.
I had zero desire to be back inthe Midwest.

(07:33):
I loved being out west.
I'd been living in Arizona inPhoenix.
Um and when they first sent meout here, I took a look around
St.
Louis and I turned down the job.
And then they sort of talked meinto, they were like, you know,
there really might not be acolumnist job back in Phoenix.
You you sure you want to turndown this job.

SPEAKER_02 (07:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (07:52):
So I ended up coming here.
Um, and I ended up just lovingit.
Like I had such a great timehere.
St.
Louis, I think, was just this.
At that time, it was a littlemore of like a wild city.
It felt like there were norules.
Yeah.
That was very appealing to me atthat time in my life.
Um, I think the paper at thattime had some talented people,
but it was misaligned with thecorporate office.

(08:15):
So there was a chance to do somereally interesting stuff, kind
of change things, mix things up.
Really enjoyed that.
Well, so they ended uptransferring me then to be the
editor-in-chief of their paperin Los Angeles, which I was
never gonna turn down.
I went out there.
The problem is in the one yearand a couple months I'd lived in
St.
Louis, and it's the classicstory.
Like these St.
Louis men, they just they putthem out into the universe and

(08:38):
they're like magnets to get youto draw people back to town.
Yeah.
So I spent I'm glad that thathappened.
Yeah.
So I spent three years out inLA, and my now husband ended up
moving out there.
And um, but he just alwayswanted to come back here.
And so yeah, it made sense whenmy job there kind of fell apart.
It was like, where do we want togo?
And I was like, I loved St.
Louis.
Let's go to St.

(08:59):
Louis and just figure things outfrom there.

SPEAKER_05 (09:00):
And then you landed right back at the river, you got
transferred to the riverfront.

SPEAKER_04 (09:04):
Well, no, it was more complicated.
What happened is things had werefalling apart with the company
that had been moving me aroundthe country.
And I had sort of quit the jobin LA because I didn't want to
lay off a bunch of people.
Right.
And I moved back to the river,moved back to St.
Louis right at the time thatthey were selling the Riverfront
Times.
And the new owners were like,hey, we heard there's this
unemployed, super experiencedaltweekly editor living in town.

(09:28):
Would you want to come back andrun this thing?
And it was like a lifesaver.
I had spent a couple months justnot knowing what to do.
And I was working for feast andjust not sure.
Like, I was like, this isn'twhat I want to be doing.
They threw me this lifepreserver that I grabbed and I
was just all in on like, let'sfix the RFT.
It was like this close toclosing.
Really?
Yeah.
And so we pulled together thisteam where I think it ended up

(09:51):
being one of the good eras ofthat paper.
And it was just, it wastremendous.

SPEAKER_05 (09:57):
Yeah.
People talk about it like myparents, like um, I'm 30, so I
know the RFT mostly from likethe 2000, like when I became
like a 20 adult, like in 2016.
But it was more That was my era.

SPEAKER_04 (10:08):
I took over in 2015.
Okay, so that's the one I know.
That's that era.

SPEAKER_05 (10:12):
So that was when I was 2021, where I was going to
live shows a lot and I wasreading the back of all the live
shows, and then I knew some ofthe freelancers that covered the
musicians.
And then I always loved theartwork of the magazine, but I
was reading online.
Yeah.
Because you know.
And most of our readers were.
Yeah.
So I was reading online, andthen, you know, I loved sauce
because I love food.
And then we started STL BucketList in 2019 and really just

(10:34):
started going all in onInstagram and social media.
And that's like Ben Arlane.
So like I got inspiration fromhow you guys told stories, but
like we know that we're not,even with sauce, like we're not
telling those stories.
We're just telling stories offood, dining, and it's all
positive.
We that's what we do with sauce.
But I love the stories of youknow, the business journal.
I I read that every day.

(10:55):
I'm a member of the businessjournal, and I still love the
post-dispatch because they stilltell these stories, and then I
read your guys' stuff all thetime.
And you guys have now with St.
Louis Mag, you've evolved intoall these different things.
But so from 2015, how long wasthat runway with Riverfront
Times then?

SPEAKER_04 (11:10):
Yeah, so I was there for four years as
editor-in-chief.

SPEAKER_05 (11:13):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (11:14):
And then I left that job to go uh host St.
Louis on the Year on St.
Louis Public Radio.
And I will say, uh, it wasn'tfully clear to me at that point,
the four years that I waseditor-in-chief.
I think that was kind of like alittle golden era in that we
were online a lot, we weregetting the page views.
It was not yet clear toadvertisers that they just

(11:36):
wanted like Instagram campaignsand all this kind of stuff.
But by the time I came back tothe RFT after having a couple
years at public radio um workingfor their corporate office,
trying to help with multiplenewspapers, I think places like
you had really kind of changedthe paradigm.
And suddenly advertisers weren'tlike wanting an ad on the
website.
They wanted a banner ad, yeah.

(11:56):
Yeah.
Things had really shifted, andthat was a whole new era.
And you were probablyresponsible for part of that.
Thanks.

SPEAKER_05 (12:03):
Yeah, no, I know.
And that's what I tell likeyoung journalists that apply.
Like, we get a lot of peoplefrom the School of Journalism at
Mizzou that want to come workfor Sauce or they want to come
do this.
And I'm like, honestly, guys,like a lot of people went to the
journalism school, but they'rein social media now, they're in
video short form creation wherethey're reporting from their
phone, and like a lot of themdon't even you don't even need a
job.
Like you can do your own thing.
There's a lot of opportunity,kind of you do need one to do

(12:25):
legit, but like some of them arelike I like sports and stuff,
and like there's a lot of sportsjournalists that are just
talking on their own shows andthey have their own things and
like, but then they get acquiredby these other big ones like
Barstool or all these otherthings that they have, but like
it's just changed so much.
And I grew up in the digital,like I grew up with social
media, so it's just different.
But like now that I'm readingthese, like they just dropped
off our magazines today.

(12:45):
Like, it feels so good to justgrab the physical magazine and
they just dropped it off.
Like our April issue just camein today.
And First Community Credit Unionis the official banking partner
of STL Bucketless.
They've been serving St.
Louis families for 90 plus yearswith 40 plus local branches and
over 400,000 members frompersonal credit loans to
mortgages to kids and teenaccounts.

(13:06):
They also have a partnershipwith the STL Blues.
You see Louie here if you'rewatching on YouTube.
Uh, we're proud to use FirstCommunity.
I use it for my own family andmy own business.
Um, we're excited for them to bethe official banking partner of
STL Bucket list.
So I guess the Riverfront Times,so like you worked there, you
left for a little bit, you cameback.
Tell me like that moment that itsold and then it was over.

(13:26):
Like, what did you feel in yourmind at that moment?
Because I'm sure that wasdevastating for you for how much
work that you put in.

SPEAKER_04 (13:31):
Honestly, at that point, um, it was almost a
relief.
Like the last couple months ofthe RFT were so hard.
And I knew terrible thingsbehind the scenes, and I was so
worried and so heart sick, andall I could think about was
like, I've got this team ofreporters.
And you know, in one case, I hadthis married couple who just had

(13:53):
a baby.
They both worked there, and Iknew there was the chance that
like there wasn't gonna be abuyer, that this thing couldn't
be saved.
And it was just, it was theworst two months of my life.
And so that morning when I camein and I I legit thought I was
gonna be laid off, and I was Iwas ready for that, and I was
sad about it, but I was like,okay, there can maybe be this

(14:15):
smaller, leaner thing.
I've done everything I can do totry to save this era of the RFT.
And to learn that then it wasover, that there was nothing
that could be done.
None of us had jobs.
It was horrible.
I felt so bad for all mycolleagues, but for me
personally, I was like, wow,well, I know I did everything.
I hung on to this, like to theTitanic, as it's like going down

(14:38):
into the water for the lasttime.
And I'm gonna have no regretsbecause I know I did everything
I could to try to save thispaper.
And what was the silver liningof what was a really tough week
was the strange thing was thateverybody was okay.
Like I was so like, how arepeople gonna eat?
And people were snapped up soquickly.

(14:59):
And even the people who weren'table to land a job in
journalism, um, they were able,they were fine.
And so I think you kind of youprepare for the worst and you
think there is no life outsideof this boat that you're on
that's sinking.
And the crazy thing, maybe it'sjust partly St.
Louis, where things are soaffordable and we all have such
a good network.
But life, life rafts came by andpicked up every last person.

SPEAKER_03 (15:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (15:22):
And so it was the worst two months of my life.
And then the week that followedwas just crazy.
I mean, just the outpouring ofsupport from the community
because that paper had meant somuch to so many people that was
almost validating for how hardwe fought.
And it was just less about whatam I gonna do next?
It was more like, is there evenjournalism like going forward?

(15:44):
Like what even happens?
It was just, it was just thisvery strange, you know, just
kind of sitting on this life rapthinking, where what uh what
deserted beach am I gonna washup on?

SPEAKER_05 (15:54):
Yeah, and all this media is trying to get you to
get on the radio and talk aboutit.
Yeah.
All these news stories.
Because I remember you were likea key media person in like
telling that story, but likeit's almost like ripping the
band-aid off to a fact of it'sover, like it's done.
There, like, because then youdon't have to save this thing
anymore.
You just kind of let it go.
And and I think that closingchapters and finishing things
are rewarding because it's likeyou still have those archives,

(16:16):
you still have those memories,and then all those connections
and all those people that youmet.
Um, so how long was the gapbetween when you guys, when you
got laid off there, and thenwhat made you kind of decide to
take that?
Like, were you done?
Or were like, because I thoughtyou were like, I mean, I I
didn't know you then, but I waslike, oh, like maybe it's just
an opportunity to just dosomething else or like go work
and do something else that's youknow, so like what made you make

(16:37):
that jump into kind of St.
Louis magazine?
Because St.
Louis Magazine at the time wasway different, and like they
took a chance on all you guys tobring you in and built, they
built something around you.
They did.

SPEAKER_04 (16:46):
They yeah, that was that was amazing that they had,
I guess, the vision to want totry that, you know, whether or
not it ends up working in thelong run.
Like they saw this thing thatwould make it work.
I, you know, I think my husbandwas really like, okay, you know,
your phone's ringing off thehook, all these people that are
work for these nice, greatcorporate jobs.
This is time for you to grow up.

(17:07):
Yeah.
And I was I was very tempted bythat.
And I think because my firingwas so public, there were
opportunities coming my way thatwould normally never come your
way.
And you kind of like were a freeagent and you're like, I can
pick and choose now.
You can do anything.

SPEAKER_03 (17:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (17:19):
Um, but I think that because the end of the RFT was
so hard and so just it just feltso ugly and unsatisfying in that
final year, to be honest, maybeeven the final two years for me,
that I thought I don't want togo out this way.
I have loved journalism so much.
Do I really want to go out withthis bad taste in my mouth of

(17:40):
like what felt like a situationthat had given me PTSD?
I thought, I think I have onelast journalism job in me.
I want to go out with my headheld high and just see if I can
do something.
If I'm not trying to like managedecline and chaos, can I again
do good work?
And I, as I was starting to havethat thought, that's kind of
when uh, you know, to mix mymetaphor, like the rescue ship

(18:04):
sailed up.

SPEAKER_03 (18:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (18:05):
Um, and yeah, I think, you know, I had known the
owner of St.
Louis Magazine prior to that,hadn't known him well, but we
had had some good conversations,and I think really liked what
the other one was doing.
And so when we started talking,it just kind of got it in my
head, and I think in his head aswell.
I was like, Yeah, I've got thisone newswriter who I think he
and I would like to continue tostill work together.

(18:28):
Could there be something that wecould do that you would want?
Could we do a newsletter foryou?
Maybe I could host a podcast.
And it was actually my colleagueRyan Kroll, this news
newswriter.
He was the one who really wantedto do a newsletter.
He'd been reading a lot of newmedia.
He wasn't as obsessed about theold forms as I was.
And he was like, I think wecould do just a really cool
newsletter.
I was like, Yeah, Matt, you guysdo amazing newsletters at St.

(18:50):
Louis Magazine.
Could there be room for like adaily newsletter?
So it was Ryan's idea.
I brought it to Matt, and Mattwas like, I want to think about
this, but I think you're on tosomething.
And he was immediately verylike, how would you guys do
this?
Like, what would you structureit as?
What would you want to cover?
Really wanted to hear our ideas,and that forced us to, you know,
as we're still like on this liferaft, trying to figure out how

(19:12):
would we build this?
And that was really exciting.

SPEAKER_05 (19:16):
For over 150 years, SSM Health has been providing
hope, healing, and opportunitiesto the St.
Louis community.
With over 40,000 employeesacross four states, they're not
only delivering exceptionalcare, they're one of the
region's largest employers,shaping the future of
healthcare.
We're proud to present SSMHealth as the official
healthcare partner of the STLbucket list show.
If you've dreamed of a careerwhere you're truly making a

(19:37):
difference every day, SSM Healthcan help you take that to the
next step.
Learn more at their website inthe link in the show notes.
In this daily newsletter now,you guys have been doing it for
I mean, it's been like what?

SPEAKER_04 (19:48):
It's been almost two years.
It'll be two years this July.

SPEAKER_05 (19:51):
Yeah, and it comes out every single day.
In five days.

SPEAKER_04 (19:55):
What did I get myself into?

SPEAKER_05 (19:56):
Yeah.
I mean, I to me, like we sendout one a week, and that is like
bandwidth-wise is a lot for us.

SPEAKER_04 (20:02):
Well, sure, but you have you're running this whole
company.

SPEAKER_05 (20:05):
So but we send out one a week, and it's like you do
this daily newsletter whereyou're telling all these
stories, and I love how it readsbecause and I love when it comes
out because I wake up early withmy kids.
So at 6 a.m.
I wake up with my kids, I getthem ready, I get them
breakfast, and then I actuallydo read it every single day.
And it's like, but I can read itvery quickly and I can skim
through what I want to read init.
And that's what's really cool.
And I love like the littlesections that how you guys

(20:27):
collaborate with it.
So walk me through that.
So are you guys collaboratingdaily on how it's structured, or
you're like, hey, like can youjump in on this?
Or hey, I'm out of town, can youjump in on this?
It's like you guys kind of justpiece together that those
sections together.

SPEAKER_04 (20:39):
It seems like Yeah, we to we touch base every
morning at 9 a.m.
And it's like, what do you gottoday?
What do you want to do today?

SPEAKER_02 (20:45):
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (20:45):
And frankly, you know, Ryan is the news reporter.
Like his job is just to go outthere and find what he can find,
and I build the addition aroundwhat he finds.
Yes.
If Ryan wants to zig, I willzag.
You know, if he's like, I'mdoing a story at City Hall, I'm
like, great, I love that story.
I'm gonna find something where Ican complement it.

SPEAKER_02 (21:04):
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (21:05):
So I'm technically the editor of this thing, but I
also think of myself as like I'mJose Okendo.
I'm running around trying tojust play whatever position
needs to be played.
If I need to like go like uh bethe relief pitcher in the 10th
inning and just throw some junkballs just to like get something
across the plate, I will dothat.
And there are days that I amtrying to swing for the fences.
I would say that is happeningvery rarely at this stage of my

(21:27):
career.
Mostly I'm trying to figure outwho can I pass the ball to who
can actually like make the play.

SPEAKER_05 (21:32):
And it's so beautiful because like now you
can kind of curate your ownthing and you can go out on your
own terms at this point becauseyou're creating this new thing
and you brought this to them.
So it's more of a partnershipthat you're bringing to St.
Louis magazine.
And since then I've seen likeother evolutions, like you guys
launched the 314 podcasts.
Now you're having theseconversations with all these
people that then turn into morecontent in the newsletter.
Like all of the things doconnect in a way.

(21:53):
And that's what I love aboutpodcasting is like now we have
these transcripts that can turninto like all these different
things that that they're Thatthey can do in the studio and
short form media, like the shortform reels, the YouTube videos
and all that.
That's why, like when I say theword influencers, like you have
influence over what people readand what people see in St.
Louis.
And I'm I, you know, I don'tknow the readers, but like a lot
of people are opening that everymorning.

(22:14):
And it's like, you know, it's alot of influence that you have
every morning.
Um, so that's really cool thatwhat what you've been able to
do.
So I guess I want to talk aboutthe future of media because I am
in in media in a different way,and I'm learning this print
media realm and this websiterealm.
Like we're publishing things,we're using these softwares,
we're running banner at like allthe stuff that's all new to me.
But like as the future of mediagrows, like what in your

(22:36):
professional opinion, like whatdo you see these next five to 10
years?
I mean, can you even think thatfar out, or like do you ever
think about it?

SPEAKER_04 (22:42):
I mean, I think about it a lot.
Yeah.
I also think about it.
I get too far ahead of myself.
Like, I have a kid who's 10years old, and she's really good
at writing, and she loves totell stories, and I'm like, I
want you to go into science.
You know, like you're trying tolike guide me.
Yeah.
So I don't have much hope for my10-year-old daughter.
I have hope for you.

SPEAKER_02 (23:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (23:04):
Like, and I feel like, you know, you're thinking
about things in a really smartway.
You're not coming in with theshackles of here's how we used
to do things that I have,frankly, been too tied to
throughout my career.
So I have hope that like peopleyour generation are gonna figure
this out.
I have hope that St.
Louis Magazine is gonna figurethis out.
You know, they have not justbeen so supportive of what Ryan
and I are trying to donews-wise, but they really think

(23:27):
about news in a different way,how to monetize it, how to
connect with readers.
You know, I think they're doingit really smartly.
I try to only think like about ayear ahead at a time.
I just don't know what tomorrowis gonna bring.
I think what's happening with AIright now, as somebody who loves
the written word and who lovessort of burrowing inside other
writers' brains, I'm terrifiedby what AI is doing to a

(23:50):
generation of readers.
I think so much of it is slop.

SPEAKER_02 (23:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (23:53):
I think it's horrible.
Um, also visually, it's horriblethat somebody can just create
some video that isn't real andtry to like put this up there
and say, this is about this newSt.
Louis restaurant.
And it's all like B-roll, asopposed to when you guys are out
there like getting beautifulimages of something that is
true.
I hate that.
And I think we are gonna come toa crossroads as media consumers.

(24:17):
Are we gonna put up with thisjunk?
And are we gonna fall for theterrible slap that so many
for-profit companies areinvested in pushing online?
And are we gonna fall for thisidea that all we care about is
what the national algorithmtells us?
If that is the road we go as acivilization and as a community,
then I am sunk, you are sunk,all people who are trying to do

(24:38):
media the right way are sunk.
I wanna believe we're betterthan that.
And I I believe St.
Louis in particular is betterthan that.
And here is why.
You know, when I moved here, Iwas working for an alt weekly
that was already kind of on itsheels, but I saw all around me
there was the potential to turnthis altweekly around because
unlike, say, Los Angeles, whereI ended up going, there was a

(25:00):
robust media ecosystem here.
Where else in America had twofood monthlies?
Right.
A small Midwest Town St.
That's insane.
Yeah.
And then we also had all thesegreat, like the The Jewish Light
does amazing work every day.
There's all these uh, you know,the Webster Kirkwood Times, the
common reader out of Wash U.
It's just a, you know, an essaypublication.
They do amazing work.

(25:21):
There's a lot of readers here.
We have more bookstores percapita than just about anywhere.
And so I what I'm hoping is thatthis bubble, this this wonderful
St.
Louis bubble that I've been solucky to be accepted in, that we
can find a path forward wherewe're gonna seek out like
quality journalism, we're gonnaseek out local journalism, we're
gonna care about the truth, andwe're almost gonna like present

(25:42):
a model for the rest of thenation.

SPEAKER_02 (25:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (25:43):
So you and I can continue to have careers
bringing people stories aboutlocal businesses, local people.

SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
Right.
I think there's a lane for it.
If Loving Where You Work is onyour STL bucket list, you should
definitely know aboutSerendipity Labs in Clayton.
We are more than just acoworking space.
We're an upscale,hospitality-driven workplace
with coworking, private offices,team rooms, and meeting and
event spaces that don't feelsad.
It's all wrapped up in anincredible community, real

(26:10):
networking, fun events, legitcoffee, and fruit-infused water
that might ruin regular waterfor you forever.
If you're building something inSt.
Louis, come work somewhere youactually want to show up.
And as a listener perk, enjoy20% off meeting in event space
or one free week of coworking ora day office.
Serendipity Labs, basically it'swork, but better.

SPEAKER_05 (26:30):
That was beautifully said.
I I think that, yeah, you'reabsolutely right.
Like, and my wife and I talkabout this all the time because
she is that English major andher kids are using AI to write
these papers now and she'scatching them.
And it's like the kids arecoming out of high school not
actually being able tophysically write anything and
communicate.
Now, I'm not gonna be the one tosay we don't use it.
We use AI automations for a lotof stuff that we do.
And and and there's there'sneeds for it.

(26:51):
But yeah, the slop to yourpoint, like during the Super
Bowl, I think like 28% of thecommercials were made with AI.

SPEAKER_04 (26:56):
So it's like isn't that crazy for the Super Bowl
slot?

SPEAKER_05 (26:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (27:00):
Like this is like the best slot that you're paying
zillions of dollars for.
Yeah.
And you're like, yeah, I'll justI'll just have AI throw
something together.

SPEAKER_05 (27:06):
Yeah, and it and it's for the creatives that work
here, like Julia who's producingthis podcast, like she came
through college.
You know, first of all, Juliawent through college during
COVID, and then you did a lot ofremote, and then you're you want
to be a video editor, but likenow AI is doing video editing
and AIs can create videos, andnow they can take your podcast
and make you say things that youdidn't actually say.
Like there's things that likeyou don't know what's actually

(27:27):
real on the internet, and thenthere now there's too much
content.
So I think that the thing that Ithat I get excited about is is
audiences though.
So like you have an audiencethat you can talk to.
So I think that it's gonna beincreasingly harder to create
audiences because there's gonnabe so much content.

SPEAKER_04 (27:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (27:40):
Um, and so many different ways to absorb it.
But yeah, I mean, I I thinkthat, yeah, to your point, it is
scary, especially as a30-year-old.
It's like I have a long way togo to work.
Like, what am I going to bedoing when I'm 40 or 10 years?
I mean, to next year, what arewe gonna be doing?
We don't know, you know, butlike there's still something
special about going out to do avideo.
Like today, we're gonna go outand film a video with a
restaurant owner, we're gonnamic them up, we're gonna post

(28:02):
that video.
Lauren's gonna write somethinggreat about it, we're gonna
publish it in a print magazine.
Yeah.
And then hopefully we get anadvertiser on the next page that
helps us cover the cost of allthat stuff that we just did.
Right.
And that's the game that weplay.
Right.
You know, and and that's whatthat's what it's hard to do
because we have to get theadvertisers, but we also have to
tell the stories and we have tosell advertising.
And that's where it's hard withthe the traditional journalists
is like it's a game that youhave to play together.

(28:24):
It's like, hey, we need thisadvertiser in here, we need this
person in here.
Like all that just offsets allthe other labor that goes into
it.
Yeah, it's it's a hard game toplay, but it's fun.
And it's like people, when wehave Food Truck Friday in a
couple weeks, like we have thesepeople that come and talk tell
us how much Sauce Magazine meansto them.
And Sauce Magazine was gonnaclose down too.
Yeah.
I didn't I didn't really tellyou that full story, but yeah,
like Sauce Magazine and Lauren,me and Lauren did a podcast

(28:47):
together talking about how badthat was, and like they were
down to two people, and she wasputting together a whole
magazine by herself, and um,they were printing at one point
2,500 copies, which like werejust not like it wasn't there
was nobody reading it at thatpoint.
So, you know, it's been fun towe're committed to keep doing
the print.
We're not gonna stop doing theprint.
Like, if we don't do the print,then there's really it's not
sauce magazine, in my point, inmy opinion.

(29:08):
Like the actual print that wedo, I I think I have one in
there, but that's been uh beenfun.
So when we had the opportunityto acquire that, that came with
a lot of baggage that we had tothen clean up.
Like we're eight months in nowand we're still cleaning up a
lot of that stuff.
Now we're going into a newdirection.
I think we feel really goodabout where we're going.
But yeah, it's it's uh yeah, theAI slop, I can see it right
away.
Like we have graphic designersupstairs, like you can clearly

(29:30):
tell when it's made with AIversus when it's not.
Now eventually that's gonna getharder to blur, though.
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (29:34):
It is and uh but I do think like I I don't know if
you're seeing this on yourchannels, but I think there is a
hunger for what is real becausepeople do see that slap.
They do understand that sort ofjust this cobbled together, like
machine-created thing.
Yeah, it's not revealing truth,it's not revealing anything that

(29:55):
interesting.
It might be like fun for a shortlaugh.
And so I think people are areseeking out.
I see this return to print.
Yes.
And I see this return to likeyoung people saying, okay, I
don't want to be a slave to thisalgorithm.
Yeah, or my phone.
Right.
And so to say no to the andshidification of life, the hope

(30:15):
is that then the readers aregonna follow, the viewers are
gonna follow, things like whatyou're doing, things like what
we're trying to do.
And then hopefully thatadvertiser understands, no, here
is what I want to be next to.
I don't want to just pay to havesome ad on TikTok where I'm next
to junk.

SPEAKER_05 (30:30):
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (30:31):
You know?

SPEAKER_05 (30:32):
The STL bucket list show is proudly sponsored by
Suede Dispensary with 11Missouri area locations.
Suede does so much for the St.
Louis community.
We've been working with thisteam for a couple years back
since Medical was here, andwe're excited to support their
new product launches, events,and community initiatives.
We couldn't be happier to workwith this premier cannabis
brand, and we're excited forthem to sponsor the show.

(30:54):
Enjoy the rest of the podcast.
Yes, and like I was reading athing about um snail mail.
Like, snail mail is now becomingmore popular.
So there's these younger peoplethat are creating written
newsletters that they mail out,and you get something and you
open it.
Cause like, when do you go toyour mailbox and actually get
something you're excited toopen?
Yeah, like very rarely.
So it's like this snail mailwhere you pay 10 bucks a month
and this local, and then theyall build their audiences from

(31:16):
TikTok.
And then they're like, hey guys,like instead of doing a digital
news, everybody has a digitalnewsletter.
It's like I do a snail mail,it's 12 bucks a month, it costs
me$2 to send it out, and you getsome, you get a fun handwritten
letter every time.
But it's not really handwrittenbecause they print it.
Well, sure.
Handwrite it, then print it.
But still, it's like there'sways to do stuff, and like we're
trying to do it STL bucket list,create community.
So it's like events are gonna bebig for us.
I know events are big for St.

(31:37):
Louis Magazine, um, in-personthings, like young people um
want to meet people in person.
It's like for St.
Louis to be a city where peoplewant to be here.
It's like it needs to be like inAustin where there's gyms doing
things, there's run clubs,there's coffee meetups, there's
like people can date and findeach other that's not on an app.
Yeah.
You know, it's like how becausethat's the thing.
Like that we, you know, even mebeing 30, like I met my wife in

(31:58):
person, but like a lot of peopledon't meet their people in
person.
So it's like everything isdigital.
So I think there's a lot of, youknow, I think we're in a sweet
spot with like how do we, how dowe monetize it while also
growing it, but also like I'mseeing that same thing because I
love we started by just makingvideos, and that was all we did.
And we didn't charge anythingfor it.
We didn't sell any advertisingand we just made videos every

(32:19):
single day.
And now it's like, okay, well,how do we make more videos for
because now we need morecontent?
And it's like now we need wehave this podcast, we have the
sauce podcast, we have just asmany podcasts as you guys.
Like we're doing podcasts everysingle day, and it's still not
enough content.
But like nobody, how can peoplelisten to that much stuff?

SPEAKER_04 (32:34):
I mean, that's a that's a great question.
I myself, I feel like I have notime to listen to podcasts.
I don't know who the podcastpeople are, but yeah, they're
there.

SPEAKER_05 (32:43):
Um, and then the podcast, like we started the
podcast to create more shortform videos.
So it's like maybe 20,000 peoplewill see the video, but only 800
people will listen to the actualshow.
So it's like, how are we?
And then, like you said earlier,it's like I'm listening for that
one portion of it.
So, like, how do we chapter tizethese videos out?
Um, because like these like JoeRogan's of the world that do
three hour podcasts, it's like Ihave two kids, full-time job, 14

(33:05):
employees.
I can't listen to three hours ofa show.
Yeah, you know, but there's someof them are interesting, and
some of the things that peopledo are interesting, but it's
like, so that's like where Ifind myself on social media
more, and I find myselfdisconnecting.
Like I set timers on socialmedia, and like I'm trying to
find a way to like reallyconnect.
And like our whole goal andmission is like that younger
generation of St.
Louis, like, what are theyreading?

(33:27):
What are they following?
Because they are taking likethey're unfollowing things that
are bad for their brain.
Like, young people actually arepretty impressive.

SPEAKER_04 (33:32):
I give them more credit than the older
generation, which I feel likewe've gotten a great response
from both for the newsletter.
So I don't want to like youknow, paint with a broad brush
here.
But when I look at how uh myparents and some people their
age consume media, I'm like,what are you reading?
You've never heard of this site.
The algorithm has fed it up toyou.

(33:54):
Yeah.
And it's all lies, and you'refalling for this.
And I feel like younger peopleare savvier news consumers.
And you know, you mentioned thedesire to get out in person.
I'm seeing things like they'redoing daytime raves where
there's no alcohol involved, andlike kids are out there dancing
on like Sunday mornings, and I'mlike, I have hope for the world
again.

(34:14):
Like that is great.

SPEAKER_03 (34:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (34:16):
I couldn't do that without alcohol, but I'm glad
there's a generation that can.

SPEAKER_05 (34:19):
No, that's cool.
Yeah, the coffee meeting.
Yeah, people don't drink as muchanymore.
And it's it's just different.
Yeah, it's it's so funny.
So I want to do a couple rapidfire things.
This is the STL bucket listshow.
So favorite STL neighborhood.

SPEAKER_04 (34:31):
Oh boy.
Uh boy, I'm so torn here.
Because I currently live inCompton Heights and I love it.

SPEAKER_05 (34:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (34:37):
But I think I still have to say Lafayette Square
because I like something that'ssuper walkable.
You know, you could just go downthe street, there's your
favorite wine bar.

SPEAKER_05 (34:44):
Yeah.
No, that's great.
Lafayette's great.
Um, most overrated STL opinion.

SPEAKER_04 (34:50):
Oh, geez.
I'm gonna say I I think there'sthis opinion that St.
Louis is closed to outsiders,and there's this idea that like
this high school question islike this gatekeeping.
I think that's bullshit.
I think I have never lived in aplace that has been more
welcoming and I've bouncedaround a lot.
I think St.

(35:11):
Louisans really want to connect.
They want to introduce you totheir city.

SPEAKER_02 (35:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (35:15):
And I think they do a great job of it.
And I think we should take pridein that and stop hiding behind
jokes about, oh, well, I'm gonnaask you the high school
question.

SPEAKER_05 (35:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (35:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (35:23):
No, I get that.
Uh this one's pretty easy.
Print or digital.

SPEAKER_04 (35:27):
Oh no, that's not easy at all.
I'm gonna say digital.

SPEAKER_05 (35:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (35:30):
That's where, you know, that's where I'm spending
my time.
Yeah, no, I this newsletter,this is what I'm spending my
whole day on.

SPEAKER_05 (35:38):
Yeah.
So that's in I'm all in.
Yeah, I know you are.
Um so and then I want to talkabout some STL bucket list
places.
So, like when uh so you're atransplant here.
So, like when people come in tosee you, does your family live
in St.
Louis?
They don't.
Okay.
Um, so when your family comes intown, like what are like let's
walk through a day in your life.
So, like you have young kidstoo.

(35:58):
So there's kind of two ways.
Like, what are your kids like?
And then what does like datenights look like?
So let's just start with like,you know, mornings, like where
are there some of those coffeespots that you enjoy?
Um, and then we'll kind of goall the way through a day.

SPEAKER_04 (36:09):
Yeah, so I don't actually drink coffee.
I know.

SPEAKER_05 (36:11):
I could get you write and do podcasts and don't
drink coffee.

SPEAKER_04 (36:14):
I drink Diet Coke.

SPEAKER_05 (36:15):
So I know.

SPEAKER_04 (36:16):
I know.

SPEAKER_05 (36:17):
So does she.
Ah, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 (36:20):
Yes.
So yeah, I'm not a coffee shopperson at all.
Um, I do like a sizable uhbreakfast sandwich.
I think uh damn fine hand pies,I would start the day having
breakfast there.
Um I love to walk, and but Ilike a walk where there's a lot
going on.
So when I have out-of-towners, Ilove taking them to the zoo.

SPEAKER_05 (36:40):
Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (36:40):
Um, I have my whole like, here's the exact route I
have to do every time I go tothe zoo.
My kids are obsessed with it.
Um, I also love taking people toArt Hill.
I think I have a lot of WestCoasters that I bring here since
I used to live there.
And they are just stunned.
Like there is nothing like ArtHill anywhere in Los Angeles, in
Phoenix.
It's just, it's the mostbeautiful thing.

(37:02):
And to just have a picnic there,yes, it's just this
extraordinary experience.

SPEAKER_05 (37:06):
The bucket list thing is like just hanging out
in Forest Park and like youdon't have to spend any money.

SPEAKER_03 (37:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (37:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (37:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (37:11):
You can just walk through the zoo and then go over
to Art Hill and bring your ownpack your own picnic from like a
local grocery like AON Co.
And like we'll bring all thesenice things.
And I got engaged on Art Hill.
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (37:20):
So you you got good taste.

SPEAKER_05 (37:21):
Yeah, I love that spot.
On the basin on the other side,but still like Art Hill is in
the backdrop.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (37:25):
And then the other thing I like to do, um, again,
this is something that a lot ofcities don't have, is just these
cool neighborhoods to walkaround.
So I like to take people to theCentral West End or Lafayette
Square or Soulard and juststroll.
You know, and maybe we'll gointo a coffee shop even if
there's nothing there for me todrink.
But like, you know, just get alittle snack or go stop into a
bar, have a glass of wine, andjust experience the

(37:47):
architecture.
Like this town has the mostamazing houses, and I could just
stare at them all day long.

SPEAKER_05 (37:52):
Yeah, and you live in in Compton Heights, you have
some beautiful homes.
Like coming from like Arizona,like, yeah, it's just like at
the end of the day, like, yes,those towns are beautiful, but
like they don't, you don't feelthe culture and the energy that
you feel going down South Grandand like seeing all these
different ethnic ethnicrestaurants, like building
these, and that's what inspiresme about St.
Louis is like each of theseneighborhoods have their own
identity, but they also havelocal entrepreneurs that

(38:14):
sometimes are immigrants thathave traveled here and sometimes
are like fourth, five, fifthgeneration.

SPEAKER_03 (38:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (38:18):
You know, we live in an old city, so it's really
cool.
And you probably saw that whenyou moved here, and it's changed
in a way so much since you'vemoved here.

SPEAKER_04 (38:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I love how like packets ofthe city that were once
moribund, like have completelyrebounded to the point that,
like, you know, people like meare priced out of them.
There's a reason I leftLafayette Square.
I can't afford it.
And you tell old timers that,and they're like, what?
Is that place even safe?
It's like, dude, like the entrypoint is like a million bucks at
this point.
And and I love that theseneighborhoods have come back.

(38:47):
And, you know, we're all luckyjust to visit them.

SPEAKER_05 (38:50):
This episode is sponsored by Upshot Coffee,
three St.
Louis area locations inCottleville, Break Shop in St.
Charles, and their new Hi-Filocation in Clayton.
I personally use Upshot Coffeeevery day at my espresso machine
at home, and I try to visit oneof the shops at least once a
week.
They source the beansresponsibly from local farms all
across the world.
Um, and they take care of theirstaff and they take care of the
community.

(39:10):
Let's get back to the show.
What about uh if you celebrate?
Like, I don't know how often youcelebrate.
Oh, constantly.
Okay, you do celebrate things alot.
So, like, well, what issomething you'd celebrate?

SPEAKER_04 (39:20):
Like it just a life thing or maybe a work thing or
just Oh, like, you know, I loveother people's birthdays, or
like, you know, just like yougot a promotion.
Let's go have drinks.
Anniversary.

SPEAKER_05 (39:29):
So what's like a date night spot for you when you
have a babysitter?

SPEAKER_04 (39:32):
Yeah.
So my husband and I love to sitat the bar at Indo.
We'll just go there and like,you know, just kind of crash it,
or we go to the bar at LittleFox and just to sit there and
have like the best food in theworld in like this casual way.
To me, that feels like the bestof both worlds.

SPEAKER_05 (39:46):
That's awesome.
And then my last question is Isthere a headline out of St.
Louis that you wish that youwrote?

SPEAKER_04 (39:51):
Oh man, every day.
Every day, you see stuff all thetime, and you're like, dang, I
wish I had that.
You know, the problem withhaving like a two-person team
and trying to cover all the newsis every day there's a story I
wish I had, and I'm so jealousof like all these talented
reporters.
And sometimes it'll be like myown team, you know, like Ryan
will have a story.
I'll be like, oh man, this issuch a good story.
And it's like, there's this tinypart of me that's jealous, and

(40:14):
the other part of me is just soproud that like we have this
place where Ryan can keep beingthe reporter that he is.

SPEAKER_05 (40:20):
Yeah, no, that's so funny.
Um, and then I guess is theresomebody that you want to have
on your podcast that you haven'tyet out of St.
Louis?

SPEAKER_04 (40:25):
Oh, I'm not gonna tell you that because then
you'll go and then I'll get him.
I will say uh we're gonna do alive podcast of the 314 podcast
where we're gonna go to theSheldon.
I'm gonna interview someone liveon stage.
And the person I asked to dothis did say yes.
We're gonna announce it verysoon at so excited to talk to
this person this week.

SPEAKER_05 (40:44):
When is this happening?
Or in May?

SPEAKER_04 (40:45):
It'll be in June.

SPEAKER_05 (40:46):
In June.
Yeah.
And you'll sell tickets to theevent.
Yeah.
Wow.

SPEAKER_04 (40:49):
So yeah, people look at uh SDLbag.com, there'll be
ticket info, we'll be comingprobably in like the next two or
three weeks.

SPEAKER_05 (40:55):
And this will be a good gift.
I never thought about we'venever done a live podcast and
like Neil Salsic, who's from theMighty Pines.
Oh, yeah, he wants to do like alive podcast with like band
people and like it's sologistically, it's so hard.

SPEAKER_04 (41:06):
It it's gonna be a lot of work.
We're probably gonna do like onea year, but I think it's gonna
be super fun.
I like like a live, I want tohear people laughing or to tell
when people are getting boredbecause I've been talking too
much.
Like that's that's nice.

SPEAKER_05 (41:19):
And you did really good at the live that I watched
you at the Explore St.
Louis when you moderated that.
And like, so now people get toask you to do these things and
moderate.
So that's where when I use theword influence, it's like you
are influences of these rooms.
Like, people come to you andlike you're the one I want
talking at this moment, youknow?
And it's like we're losing a lotof good journalists to move to
other cities too.

SPEAKER_04 (41:37):
Yeah, I mean, I think honestly, that's just I'm
like one of the few people whohas this much experience who's
left.
So it's like, what journalistsare still working in St.
Louis?
Well, good, there's SarahFensky.
I guess we could ask her likethat.
That's my influence.

SPEAKER_05 (41:49):
That's great.
I mean, hey, you're here.
I'll take it.
You're available.

SPEAKER_04 (41:52):
No, totally.
I'm I'm proud to still be here.
Like of everything in my career,I think I'm most proud to still
be full-time employed.

SPEAKER_05 (41:59):
Yeah.
Um, well, cool.
I'm glad that we made thisconnection and I'm super excited
and would love to pick yourbrain on what we're doing with
sauce eventually.
And, you know, any advice thatyou could give to a younger
entrepreneur that's like tryingto bring this thing back to
life.
It's been a lot harder than Iexpected.
So um, eight months in, butwe'll we'll see.

SPEAKER_04 (42:15):
Yeah.
And I probably should get someadvice from you on like how do
we keep this thing going?
I mean, we're all in thistogether, right?
Like we're in the same business.
We're trying to cultivate St.
Louis.
Yeah.
People who care about St.
Louis.
So we're not competitors.
Like we're, you know, we'rewe're in this together.

SPEAKER_05 (42:30):
I agree.
No, absolutely.
Sarah, thank you so much forcoming on.
And this was another episode ofthe SDL Bucketless Show.
St.
Louis, thanks for listening.
Everything we do here is abouttelling the story of this city,
and that doesn't stop with thisshow.
On the Bucketless PodcastNetwork, we're diving even
deeper into the people, places,and moments that make this city
what it is.
Meet Me in Music with NeilSalcett captures the sound of

(42:50):
the city, past and present,ending each episode with a live
performance.
For my Foodie Lovers, the saucewith Lauren Healy brings you
inside the restaurants thatdefine our culture every
Tuesday.
Gateway to Growth with JamalCornelius highlights the stories
behind the people that make St.
Louis work.
And every Thursday, Bryce breaksdown your weekend with This Week
in St.
Louis.
More stories, more voices.
Explore the full bucketlesspodcast network wherever you

(43:13):
listen.

All Episodes

From Newsrooms to Newsletters – How Sarah Fenske Is Navigating the Future of Media in STL

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

Hey Jonas!

Betrayal Weekly

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}From Newsrooms to Newsletters – How Sarah Fenske Is Navigating the Future of Media in STL