April 7, 2025 • 55 mins
Remember when discovering new dancehall and reggae tracks happened effortlessly through dedicated radio shows, mixtapes passed between friends, and family gatherings? Today's fragmented landscape requires intentional effort many adults simply can't prioritize amidst growing responsibilities. With 120,000 new tracks uploaded daily to streaming platforms, the sheer volume makes keeping pace nearly impossible.
The discussion challenges common complaints about modern music's "slackness," noting every generation has pushed boundaries that seemed shocking at the time. What's really happening isn't cultural disconnection but evolution – a transition from trend-followers to cultural preservationists focused on passing foundational elements to the next generation.
Artists bridging these generational divides, like Koffee, Busy Signal and Agent Sasco, succeed by creating music with universal themes and clear delivery. Meanwhile, streaming algorithms and the decline of riddim based collections in dancehall have removed key structures that once helped listeners organize and discover new songs.
Whether you're feeling guilty about not knowing the latest tracks or wondering how to maintain authentic cultural connections while aging, this conversation offers validating perspectives on how our relationship with Caribbean music changes but never diminishes. What aspects of Caribbean culture have you found yourself evolving with rather than keeping up with?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Style and Vibes podcast.
With me, Makayla, I'll begiving you the inside scoop on
music, fashion, culture and morefrom Caribbean celebrities and
tastemakers across the globe,pushing our culture with
authenticity and, of course,style and vibes.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of
the Style and Vibes podcast withyours truly Makayla.
If you are new here, welcome tothe family.
If you're returning, welcomeback family.
And today is really a familything because the executive
producer in the building today,kerianne, tell the people who
are going.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Boy, everything are going and nothing are on at the
same time.
But everything is everything.
It's typical jamaicans arespeaking parables.
What everything?
I'll go on and nothing noweverything is everything I
understand.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Still, you know and then you say everything is
everything, and I know the cmtboy, so I had to tap you because
we have so many differentoffline conversations around
today's music and keeping up andwith your carry on friends
(01:15):
community.
You kind of pose this question,um, from a cultural standpoint.
So rather than, as we do,always chat out an episode
versus recording the episode, Isay you know what may not chat
it out today, we're gonna recordit and and produce it for the
people then.
So let's start with, I think, Ihave something to say.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I want to say that was a very proud moment.
You know self restraints to sayzip it, let's record it, let's
put it on wax.
Well, you don't put nothing onwax.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I like it.
I thought music where I put iton wax.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yes, we are getting better.
We are getting better becauseyou know you and I would talk
out a whole entire topic andthen can't record the episode
because we already don't talk,and then you and I know like
it's not the same energy thatthen when we have the
conversation the first time andI think this one is particularly
(02:14):
interesting because we've hadtidbits of this conversation but
we haven't had a holisticconversation and it's really
sparked by the question from acultural standpoint that you
pose to your community.
So I want you to share it withthe Style and Vibes family so we
can kick off the right way.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah.
So, as you know, you know I'velong since been talking about
and I've recorded multiplepodcasts where I mentioned some
matriculate altar, you dance,all dancing and stuff, because a
large part of my identitygrowing up in high school and
even for a while, was like I wasthat girl who had the metro
media, the stone, love cassette,then manure, all at a new dance
(02:56):
, and that was still well intoaspects of my adulthood and it
was during times producing styleand vibes.
I realized that I was relyingon what you were suggesting to
the audience in that seasonwhere you were talking about the
songs that you enjoyed, and Ikind of said to you like I don't
(03:16):
know if I could keep up withthis, and what really triggered
the recent conversation was umliquor cause uh, our niece you
know the title rotate dependingon our mood sent me a text that
idonia is celebrating his 20years in the in dancehall and
(03:38):
it's at UBS.
Arena or whatever and then inthe same breath she sent me say
carter la com, i'ma look funny.
The first, the first one thatreally got me, was idonia,
because I was like I remember,and then I'm ahead, I'm like
tune, true, true like.
And I was like, oh, one yearwhen I went to ati before it was
dream weekend, whatever.
(03:59):
I remember seeing him downthere and I'm like yo, 20 years,
like that's really a starkseeing him down there and I'm
like yo, 20 years, like that'sreally a stark, like yo, 20
years.
And then messian Noah no good,even though the lineup have
other people that I would wantto see.
But I was like the last idoniasong I'm literally singing was
pre-pandemic.
That is a song that's in myphone.
(04:20):
I'm not hearing anything newidonia and I was like nah, I'm
good, because me no want goingat the arena, everybody are vice
out new tune.
And then me stand up there.
You know, like when you singsong and you know somebody they
flop the word of the song andthey nah sing it right.
I don't want to be that auntie.
I don't want to be that auntiewhen I know the tune and they
(04:40):
mumble and they replace lyricswith what?
Lyrics is not there and I waslike I'm cool and so I posed
this to my audience am I theonly one who's experiencing this
?
And you know there were peoplewho replied and said no, I
wasn't the only one, and we kindof talked about how they were
finding new music.
So different people told medifferent ways they were
(05:02):
listening to new music or howsome people are just sticking to
what they are familiar with,what was in their era, and that
era varies.
And then I actually had afollow up poll that says which
aspects of your culture that youare not necessarily leaving
behind but not keeping up withnot necessarily leaving behind,
(05:24):
but not keeping up with and Igave multiple options and an
overwhelming amount over almost67% said they weren't keeping up
with music.
And I remember I called you andI was like yo, we have some data
to have the conversation.
And on top of that, so I couldround out the story, I sent the
results in the newsletterfollow-up and one of my engaged
(05:48):
audience members, mikey T, saidlisten, I have a lot to say
about this music thing.
And I said I'm sure you knowwe'll get into that.
But he talked about, you know,the slattness argument, which
makes sense because that's whatpeople use.
But you and I know that theslattness argument is easily
makes sense because that's whatpeople use.
But you and I know that theslattness argument is easily
debunked.
You understand and I said no,it's actually more nuanced than
(06:12):
that, and so in thisconversation we're going to go
into the nuance from an identityperspective and the other
things that are impacting that,why we are like not keeping up
with music and and the.
The survey actually highlightedsomething else that I'm excited
to get into.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I think what, what was interesting when you came to
me and I was just like, okay,now let's really have a
conversation about it, becauseeven myself, you know, I'm not a
spring chicken.
I'm not necessarily hanging outin the different spaces and
places, but I do like todiscover new music.
So I'm constantly looking fornew music and I'm on the lookout
(06:54):
.
And, because of the nature ofthe podcast, I do get a lot of
like submissions of new music,whether they be well known or or
not well-known at all.
I get the gamut of it and I candefinitely tell you, you know,
the digital age has allowed forso much new music to be released
(07:16):
and I think it's not the soleissue around keeping up with new
music, but I think that it'sthe biggest one that we have,
particularly in the Napster andLimeWire.
And after timeframe, right,because you know, during that
era you went from having acassette tape that had 45 to 90
(07:40):
minute, 120 minute time span ontwo sides of the tape.
Previously you also had CDs.
Vinyl can only hold but so manydifferent songs and now you
literally have so many songs atyour fingertips.
So the share volume of music in2024, there was more music
(08:03):
released in a single day thanthe entire year of 1989.
So it's like just putting thatinto perspective 120,000 new
tracks are uploaded on averageevery day to these DSPs and
these streaming services.
Not to say that all of that isgood music and we can have the
quality conversation all day.
(08:26):
But I think that that is one ofthe biggest barriers to kind of
keeping up quote unquote withnew music is the sheer volume.
And then when you look atcaribbean music, particularly
reggae and dancehall, we'vealways been a singles driven
market where tunes after tunesafter tunes, they're just
(08:46):
released.
They're not tied to aparticular project or you know.
Now, with rhythms not being athing, it's not like it's not as
big of a deal as it once was interms of identifying the
rhythms and knowing that aspectof the culture, because juggling
doesn't happen in the same wayanymore either.
(09:08):
So I think there's a lot interms of keeping up with new
music feels like a differenttask now.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
That is also coupled with us getting older, yeah, so
you touched on a couple ofthings and you talk about the
technology and you talk aboutrhythms.
Right, rhythms was a marker bywhich people would have some
kind of familiarity with music.
So you may not like all thesongs on a rhythm, but you were
(09:41):
able to identify that this isthat rhythm, the Diwali rhythm,
or this rhythm, or that rhythm,the stink or whatever buzz,
whatever it was right.
You kind of had a generalunderstanding.
So if once the rhythminstrumental kind of come on,
you kind of were open to thesong to hear what else would
come on that rhythm, that's one.
(10:02):
So with the fragmentation ofthe music industry, you know it
shifted from passive discovery,right.
So growing up, we're in the car,we're listening to music and we
had, in addition to shiftingfrom radio, we have, a
contraction of the number ofCaribbean radio stations or even
(10:24):
the shows that were onmainstream radio.
Specifically.
I'm in Brooklyn, so you know,like David Levy is pushed much
later into the night, I thinkhe's like on late Saturday night
, but he was on Sunday nightversus I can't remember no more
versus Bobby Kandas and Jabba.
I knew that four o'clock, fiveo'clock on a Sunday growing up,
(10:48):
that was the slot right andthey're not in that slot anymore
.
You have the modern DJs who areCaribbean inspired, that will
play a tune, but you don'treally have the same dedication
on those frequency that we caneasily get.
And then with internet radio,most people don't have that.
And I also want to point out,as I was thinking about this and
(11:12):
maybe I'm really aging myself Iused to work in a law firm and
everybody had a little radio attheir desk, you know, or in
their office, and it wasn't loudto the point where.
Why are all these radios onright?
It was so low because we weresitting in cubicles that you had
to really be in the person'scubicle space to kind of hear
what was playing on the radio.
(11:32):
And so I constantly knew thatfrom the morning to the
afternoon I was going to be onkiss, and then, when Michael
Bay's then came on in theafternoon, we have a switch to.
You know what I mean.
And so because we're notlistening via radio, which was
our main source of beingintroduced to music, because the
technology is great and it'sgiven access to many people, but
(11:55):
there's this element of humancuration in a way that we really
validated, and so I told youthe story and I know I'm calling
a bunch of names, but it reallyillustrates the point right.
This happened story and I knowI'm calling a bunch of names,
but it really illustrates thepoint right.
This happened over a year ago.
I'm picking up my mother fromthe airport and we're driving
home and it's on hot 97 andFunkmaster Flex is introducing a
(12:16):
new track.
He plays 30 seconds of thetrack and pull up the tune the
whole way, the whole 15 minuteride back home.
He pulls up the track and atone point my mama said am I
gonna play the full song?
We haven't changed the stationbecause we're waiting for the
whole song to play, but itbrought us back to an era where
(12:38):
the the dj on the radio notgonna dash out a song for me.
I'm going to tease it, I'mgoing to pull it up again, I'm
going to get a new tune.
He's excited, it's integratedinto that show, and so we kind
of lose all of that.
Now me, I have to go actively,intentionally, figure out I want
a new song.
Then I have to go through thesocial media door and I can't
(13:01):
bother with it, and then whathappens is it becomes an echo
chamber of whatever thealgorithm is feeding and
whatever people are using ontheir reels and tick, tock,
that's what everybody is hearing.
And then people say this songand then you know it's really,
um, a selection of, maybe afraction of what's really out
there.
So technology has reallydisrupted how we as a people
(13:25):
listen to music.
And this last point Mikey T hadkind of said that it is not our
job to keep up with musicunless it's somebody's job, so
like for you running thispodcast or for a DJ.
And this is where I wanted todisagree.
We keep up with music becauseit's so much part of our
identity.
(13:45):
We love music.
So what I wanted to go back to,on the surveys, over 67% said
they weren't keeping up with themusic.
One option was are you keepingup with concerts, fests,
carnival?
Nobody responded to that, right.
So that means that they may notbe actively going out and
seeking new music, but they'restill going out to party and
(14:08):
enjoy themselves, right?
So it's like on one end it'sexhausting, and you know this,
exhausting to find out what'sthe new song, but they're still
engaging with culture and wherethey potentially could hear
music, they just want to be ableto be fed or introduced to
music in a way that doesn't feellike it's so much work to do.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I think you said a lot of different things.
So we are a generation that hadbeen fed and I think with every
generation we have to put age,place and space into the
positioning where.
When you were younger, how didyou learn about new music?
(14:51):
It was radio, it was parties,it was other people sharing.
My friend is a DJ, so they gotme the latest I'm buying a
mixtape or all of those thingswe no longer do.
Right, and that also has to dowith age, because if you're not
(15:14):
actively buying a mixtape orseeking out new mixes, in a way
you're not actively partying inspaces to hear new music,
specifically for new music,because you can go out and go to
old school parties where youknow, like when you get older,
your experiences in terms ofgoing out needs to be valuable
(15:39):
because you have less time.
When you are younger, you havemore time discretionary time to
have a bad time, but you'rehaving a bad time with people
that you love.
And so you and I remember weall go party thursday, friday,
saturday, sometimes sunday andindustry tuesday, and we just no
longer do them as you get olderand so you're no longer in this
(16:01):
place or place and radio radiohasn't broken new artists in a
very long time, like it's alwaysreally been.
You already had to have a, abubble in the streets.
You had to have some sort ofrecognition of people already
talking about you from anindustry perspective, or you had
(16:24):
to have the backing of someindustry gatekeeper, big
promoter, dj, somebody to put astamp on it and recommend it.
And radio right now is the lastplace.
So if a song from TikTok ends upon the radio, that means it's
already been played out in thatarena of younger consumers as
(16:50):
well, and so, in addition to itbeing fragmented as we get older
, we're no longer not to saythat we're not interested in
learning about new music.
We're just not in a position toprioritize it over the
lifestyle of.
You know, I'm running mybusiness or I'm focused in my
(17:10):
career, and so some of thosesocial gatherings become premium
spots where you're like I wannago, where I'm guaranteed to
have a good time.
I'm not necessarily guaranteeda good time to go listen to this
new artist that I've neverheard on a Wednesday evening,
like is it valuable and is it abest use of my time?
(17:32):
And so we are as a people.
If you're interested, there arereally limited places to
discover new music and it'skeeping up with podcasts or
music people, curators butthere's so many more curators
now or it's really the streamingservices and their
recommendations, and that's awhole other conversation around.
(17:54):
Recommendation because you stillhear new music, right, you
still know something when youlike it, when you do hear it, or
you don't like it, and it couldbe playing all over the radio
or playing all over whateveryour timeline, anywhere else,
and it could be popular andyou're not really that crazy
about it.
But I think also, as we getolder, we just have more
(18:19):
priorities on your plate and somusic, even though it's this
thing that you truly, truly loveand you want to engage it, it
becomes a chore, whereas itwasn't a chore when you were 20.
Like, I remember telling Kirk Iwas like I can't even remember
the last time I played music toget ready to go out and I still
(18:39):
go out.
But I'm like somebody got to goto know one is watching tv.
I don't want to disturb thelittle one, so I have to wait
till I get into my car.
By that time I'm in my car, I'mlike I haven't created my mix
and I'm like, well, I just, I'mjust gonna go back to whatever
is familiar, because I want tohear good music as I'm about to
(19:00):
touch the road.
But it's not as seamless.
It is more effort, right, partof us we're sad that it's so
much more effort, because thisused to be this effortless thing
.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
So what you're talking about is what I, you
know, I've been working on andwhat we're experiencing and I've
been experiencing for a verylong time Everybody always I'm
all up myself been experiencingfor a very long time.
Everybody, always I'm all upmyself.
But it's this transition fromyouth to, like, adulthood we're
not quite elder yet but youth toadulthood where we feel like,
okay, we don't want to keep upwith current, um, music and
(19:37):
dance trends, and I mean dancetrends, because that was big for
us.
Like you know, I keep sayingwhen was the last dance me?
Feel like me can do as bigauntie, not the dance, because
I'm very, you know, I'm verymindful.
I don't want going to the youngpeople them dance and look like
the big woman who not reallysupposed to.
They, not the young people themdance.
You understand what I'm saying,but anyway, and then we start
shifting to well, we are moreconscious of it because we know
(20:00):
what that looks like looks, ohwe for sure know what
it looks like Like uh-uh, thiswon't be me, but we're shifting
from keeping up with the currentdance trends and music and
we're shifting to the culturalclassics and kind of what you
talked about.
We're doing more, you know,family-centered activities so we
(20:22):
can't really vibes up with selfbefore the party.
There are certain songs wecan't play.
I remember, you know, I used togo to jamaica.
A lot of my friend would giveme like some mix cds and this
was before, you know, apple andall these things because he
would give me the clean versionthat plays on jamaican radio.
Because you know, say you know,that's the only ones that can
play in other hosts are with thekids them in other hosts you
(20:44):
can't play the racha version,and so these are like the many
ways where it feels hard to keepup and how we can truly say,
okay, let us all go listen tothe mix cd here and go and clean
up the holes.
You can't really do that, youknow, because of putting them
the boat and it's just like,yeah, you can't do that.
So I wanted to come back to thisidea of the quality of music.
(21:07):
So Mikey T was, as a youth, hewas defensive because and I said
yeah, the argument about themusic to slack is for social
media.
You know, when you post it,everybody bone to get some level
of engagement.
And I said we can debunk thatmyth.
Everybody is looking at the 90sright now through Rose colored
lens and it wasn't like that, meknow.
(21:29):
Some artists where yo, we arestill say the song are really,
when they're playing, like evengoing back even to the 80s.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
You know, even before that like some watching two
videos on Instagram, and one isthis girl is singing.
She got a.
She looks young younger thanyounger than me, for sure and
she's singing.
Uh, lady saw a family.
She's singing it like she.
She knows the entire lyrics.
(21:59):
That's an old song, it's not anew song that was the era of
power man.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I need you to go hear some of the power man song them
.
You're like what I rememberwhere I was in high school in
ninth grade when one of myclassmates she was just funny
all she came in and she was likecock up, cock up.
I was like what is she talkingabout?
Only position, just come out asa song.
(22:26):
And everybody I was like whatyou know.
So, and even going into the 80sthere was this song.
I can't remember the name.
The song is so creepy becausebasically the dj, I sing about
him, I look funny.
Mother and father, they doadult things right.
And the argument about the musictoday is more slack.
(22:47):
It doesn't land for me and I'lltell you a story.
So in 2008 there was a 50thbirthday party.
Can you imagine 2008?
And this older couple love thembecause you know them vibes you
when them go, it's you know,because it's a mixed thing, and
you just hear come on, hear mysong when you're coming on my
(23:07):
rampage, like that was theirsong, and so the slackness.
And whether a song is slack, Ithink it's just relative to the
person and, of course, as youget older, you kind of find it
jarring because now you havekids a certain age and as moms,
you're like oh you know, youstart think about what you was
doing.
Now you have Pitney at acertain age.
(23:29):
But music, if music isintroduced in a way where people
can get to know it and toexperience it, if they're first
hearing about it at a party,you're not going to dance to it,
you're going to stop and you'regoing to try to take it in the
song.
And that's not what people wantwhen they go to a party.
They want to feel like they'reconstantly dancing, which is why
(23:50):
, yes, Now.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
But when you were 20 and the DJ was like, let me play
that new tune.
But when you were 20 and the DJwas like you're listening
(24:20):
because you know that theselector is going to as much
here, at least in my experienceslike breaking of new records
and a lot of times people justdon't want to be bothered and I
don't know if that's agenerational thing or if that is
actually factual across theboard.
So I'd have to ask somebodywho's a little bit younger than
me, like what their scene islooking like.
(24:41):
I think, even going back to theslackness, I think what Mikey T
and I don't wanna likeinterpret, interpret his
understanding of it is there wasstill a sense of creativity,
lyrically right, and I thinkthat, yes, it is more raunchy,
it is more in your face, butthere was a certain level of
(25:04):
creativity when they were likevibes cartel to me is the last
of an era because he would makea distinct clean version and a
distinct explicit version andthey both were top tier lyrical
wordplay innuendo.
So you could play the entire.
(25:25):
It was still slack, but youcould play the clean version and
lyrically it still sounds thesame.
The problem I think a lot ofyoung artists are having is they
just bleep it out and theythink that that's the clean
version and they're not takingthe lessons of the older
generation and creating a morecreative, explicit and clean
(25:46):
version.
Because I haven't heard.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
They just bleep them out.
But I thought, in order to getradio play in jamaica, it's by
law that you needed a versionthat didn't have the bleeps in
it.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
A lot of these songs don't even play on jamaica radio
, but this is what I'm sayingthat's why you you can tell the
difference.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
In order to get radio played, the song had to be an
entirely different version,because there were no bleeps
allowed but here in the statesyou could just bleep it out.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, it's not just jamaican music, reggae dance, el
soca.
It's american music too, likesexy red.
They just bleep out the wordsmegan the stallion same thing.
Cardi b same thing the.
The rules are a little bit morelenient now than they were
before.
But you know there weredefinitive clean versions and
(26:37):
explicit versions and that, Ithink, has changed pretty
drastically in the listeningexperience.
And I really really noticed itwhen TikTok came into play,
because I remember when Sinaigot on TikTok and I was like
they don't have clean versionsof these songs Cause, like I get
(27:00):
it, she's not really listeningtoo much for the lyrics, she's
really just dancing, she'strying to do the whatever the
dance trend is, but now they'vebecome so accustomed to that
they don't really understand thedifference between there's a
time and place and I think ourgeneration was the last of
understanding between there's atime and place, and I think our
generation was the last ofunderstanding that there's a
(27:20):
time and a place of where toplay.
There are certain songs.
Let me just skip them, evenwhen my mother in another room
is there, like I.
I know she probably listens tothe song and I listen to the
song, but I don't, I don't feellike it's the right situation
when I make it serving Sundaydinner, for God's sake, you know
(27:40):
.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
This reminds me of a story.
Christine is a very genericname, but Christine had told me
this was years ago.
Christine had told me Sarah'smother come visit and she's in
the house and the song just comeon me a drive in from grand
jail with a phone and she walkedus up but she said you know she
(28:06):
locked it up.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
You guys just have that be carried.
But it's like the, the it's.
It's those really raunchy songs.
And even I remember I waswatching this video and I'm
gonna send it to you.
I was watching this video oninstagram and this group of for
older women you could clearlytell I think they're like of
asian descent.
I don't know where exactlythey're from, but they're
(28:33):
dancing to gauges dunganayatruett.
I'm old enough to remember whenthat song was initially released
how much backlash it got likeI'm that old because it was.
I remember when it was releasedand radio people did not want
to play it.
People were like what kind ofslackness is this?
(28:53):
This is not our culture.
And blah, blah, blah, noitareinspon tiktok, everybody has seen
it.
It get like this new surgeonsand they're literally dancing
because it's.
It's been like what they callnow a mashup.
They they've kind of made itlike a remix, but it's pretty
popular and I'm just like poorgage.
I remember he, he got all thebacklash from Dong In A Ye Truth
(29:20):
and then come full circle.
Everything at Dong In A YeTruth, like that feels tamed
compared to what we hear comingout of the current dancehall
sound now.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah, well, I'm not hearing it, but I just also want
to say I'm not hearing it.
But I just also want to say I'mnot hearing it, I don't.
So my husband hears music a lotbecause we're when he's in the
car, and when I'm in the car forlong rides, like I told you
about the throwback radiostation I was like, oh shoot,
I'm, I'm on this.
But one of the ways that Idiscover music not just new
(29:58):
music but music that came outyears ago but I'm just hearing
is through music choice, and theintegration of Pandora on these
smart TVs is one of the waysthat I hear music.
So, like the other day, onechronic supply and I'm like, oh,
which chronic song this.
And I looked and this was likechronic supply.
(30:18):
And I'm like, oh, which chronicsong this.
And I looked and this was likea older track and I was like
I've never heard this song, soit's.
It's also again, just all thesedifferent ways that we have
available to consume music andI'm just like this is what makes
it really hard I do think thatthe algorithms are getting
better in terms of for.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
For that reason right , because even I listen, I do
apple music occasionally, I'lldo stuff on spotify or even, um,
some stuff on youtube just tokind of see, like, what is there
and the recommendation.
They're good about recommendinglike similar, like artists,
whether it be like you.
You have to scroll to thebottom or like if you get to the
(30:59):
end of a playlist and it playstwo or three songs at the end,
but the the, the trap there isthat it plays similar.
It's not necessarily thatyou're going to always discover
new music, but I do find thatthat has been a good angle to
(31:20):
kind of passively discover newsongs.
And they have key playliststhat they change frequently.
That's probably the easiest,least work-related, like follow
a playlist that changesfrequently and you can hear some
new sounds.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
You might not like it , but at least you're still
listening to some of it I thinkwhat has worked for me because
I'm not even following nobodyplaylist in anyway um, because I
have apple music.
Apple music is constantlytelling me when new music is out
and that's largely based onwhat's in it.
So the last music you tell meabout a Bounty Killer song come
(32:05):
out the other day as we wererecording this, let me see which
song, because I left it on myalerts If a Bounty song, a
Beanie song come out.
I've seen it tell me aboutluciana, but it's mostly bounty
and beanie.
It suggests to me which tellsyou almost a lot about your
(32:26):
ability.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yes, yes, yes about your beanie, but the challenge
it's not gonna recommend ashancia song or it's not gonna
recommend a stock ashley or actr, skillet bang or you know
what I mean.
Like those are the the youngercrap of of artists, a chronic
law.
But they do have some otherdancehall playlists,
(32:48):
specifically um again.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Oh, I remember what I wanted to say.
So, not because I stick to aparticular era.
I typically tell people say,listen 2012 and earlier.
I'm solidly in that area.
I will listen to other songspast you know 2010.
But I know 2010.
Going back, I solidly knew alot of the songs that were out.
(33:13):
I could even push it to youknow 2012, because by then we
have the second opinion, so it'shard to really keep up.
But it doesn't mean a songdoesn't break through
periodically, and a lot of songsbreak through.
It's just where I hear them forthe songs to break through.
The other thing, too, is thatin the survey what's captured is
(33:37):
keeping up with language likewe don't know the new slang,
them anymore, and so you're notgonna know the new saying, you
know but this is what I'm saying.
We don't know the new slang, andso that sometimes creates a
disconnect in how we feel.
Like, oh, it feel weird forthis hebrafin in this, because I
know I know my thing, this andif the song is, you understand,
(34:00):
those are like some of thethings that came out in the
survey, and so what I've beenfinding are songs that have an
intergenerational appeal.
I'll I'll put this out here.
Barris is on my whiteboardMichaela knows this like circled
and circled, because Barris isa good example of what happens
(34:22):
when people transition fromyouth to adult.
That they go to familiarcultural hits will always have
him garnering new audiencesevery year, because every year
(34:44):
people are graduating into adifferent level of maturity and
you won't go to enjoy yourself.
Yeah, you go see Berris atBrooklyn.
You go up on cruise youunderstand what I'm saying up on
cruise and like, you understandwhat I'm saying and, um, I told
you the story about somebodywho, um, after church, it was
his birthday and you know I saidwhat was your birthday?
(35:05):
And I'm saying, yeah, man, andthen the person who is also as
old as him started happybirthday, my friend, and then me
say one more like, but theseare like in their 70s, but they
are aware because I mean, yes,it's a catching song, but also
more time in the understand whatare young people, I say.
And so the the clarity indiction of the song helps when
(35:29):
there's an intergenerationalappeal to the song.
And I'm not saying every artistneeds to have an
intergenerational appeal.
But if virality and gettingmusic, you know your young, the
young listeners, they mightintegrate the granny and the
grandpas and the aunties.
And if there's a music theyfeel like yo, grandma, you're a
(35:50):
song yet then you know that'skind of what they're looking for
.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
So yeah, yeah, and even to that point, there are
younger artists that have brokenthrough, like Chronix and
coffee, like those are.
Especially coffee is a reallygood example because she's young
young, you know and she wasable to bridge the gap in terms
of, just like you said, beingintergenerational, like the
(36:14):
topic.
The topics of her songs aren'tum far-fetched are highly youth
focused yeah, they're not.
Highly it's youth driven becauseit's coming from her as a young
person.
However, she's delivering herstyle, but the content and the
context of what she is talkingabout uh transcends that,
(36:35):
because you know me and Sanaiwent to a coffee concert and she
had to know a good part of hercatalog and she's fairly new in
terms of that, a younger crop ofartists.
So every and then, every nowand again, like we get a busy
signal song or we get an agentsasko song or we get like
something that kind ofepitomizes that.
(36:57):
So I think that the next cropof dance artists they're not
young, you know, they're goingto have to think about that too
and their fans will have totransition with them, similarly
to how we have transitioned withartists of our era.
I think it feels like work,because there's just so many
(37:20):
different ways and so manydifferent things that we no
longer feel as connected to itand I think in part it saddens
us because it was such a hugepart of who we were that we then
turn around and like, oh, nowwe are the aunties of the
generation.
Like what is happening that wedon't know, or like or like.
(37:44):
You know you feel yourselfcomplaining like, but this isn't
good and I don't consider itgood.
But it's also the same.
When you eating really goodfood, you're not really gonna go
back to the bad, bad drinks.
You food, you're not reallygoing to go back to the bad, bad
drinks you know.
Like you're not going to ordera whiskey sour, that was like
(38:04):
the ninth.
A lemon cello Like you're notgoing to order that when you've
been drinking for 20 plus years.
A martini that you saw on sexin the city.
Like it's okay to grow andstill yearn for that connection,
but it doesn't have to beforced.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
I don't think it's not a disconnection, it's an
evolution right.
We're still connected to theculture.
Say it one more time for thepeople, then it's not a
disconnection, it's an evolution, right, and we are moving from
a place of keeping up with themusic to now into a preservation
mode, because we're stillplaying the old tracks in the
(38:45):
way of the way that we'replaying 90s, that bad light, 90s
dancehall before 90s, dancehall, 80s.
You remember that some fest wedid watch I guess it was 2018
and then in interview, spragaand Spraga did say yeah, me now,
while the young people thenbecause when him did company
scene I remember him saying sameway then they thought about we
too, exactly.
So you know like it's just anevolution and how we adjust to
(39:08):
that is different.
But it doesn't mean that we'relocked off with ears and say we
don't want to hear no moredancehall.
That's not what we're saying.
But we have a sound that wegravitate to and it's not just
dancehall For me.
I love R&B and you know know, Idon't listen to r&b.
The same way, when I did find asong that I like, that is
(39:32):
reminiscent of a particular erathat I liked and I will lock
into that.
But it's not a thing.
And I even listen to some youngpeople who will say, hmm, this
is not my style.
Like, what's the concert thatyou?
Jason Bryson, Tiller, yeah,somebody who was young was like,
yeah, I can't get with that,you know, and I was just like.
(39:52):
At the end of the day, we haveto remember that people have
taste and, you know, everyonehas their own taste and they
will gravitate to what they like.
But me not keeping up with thelatest in music doesn't mean
that I don't still enjoy music.
It's just that how I identifywith it evolved and of course I
want to talk about thepreservation stage because
(40:13):
that's important.
I was known as the one who hadthe latest music and the dances
and know the latest dances.
You know that I want ethan tolearn to do the dances.
He has the potential, but me,no, no the dance.
Then we're not gonna know ifyou do the dance them and I will
leave a video out there withdan.
So who's supposed to do thedance?
And that's why I wasdisappointed when you had you
(40:34):
had told me that somebody waskeeping a class to teach the
young kids the new dances.
They canceled that class, butit's a great opportunity.
Whatever is the, the latestdance craze out of jamaica and
people over there like I wouldlove ethan to to kind of catch
it, because I'm not saying whatI've done the place.
You know something I said, butthat is what I fear that he
(40:55):
doesn't know what the latest?
Speaker 2 (40:57):
also, you gotta go back to.
How did you learn all thosedances?
Yeah, no, no.
But what I'm saying is we don'tnecessarily have to seek and
force, because he'll eventuallyfind it right.
No, I know, that's it.
You know what I mean.
Like we had my.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
My mom, you know, didn't force me to to yeah, but
it's different because our wallypa cousin did another house.
We don't even live the way weused to live back then.
Yes, you know.
So it's not even the same.
Listen, I can't count Well onthe one, two, three, four.
Yo, I went seven years away inthe house one time.
All of the cousins are in thehouse.
(41:35):
You're lucky if you get thefour of them in one space, right
?
So even the way we congregateas a family is different.
So, yes, he will eventually seeit with his friends, but right
now, ethan, no offer to all ofthe American.
Dance them when in my party,everybody there part way and
they film him.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Why you can't do the new Jamaican one, exactly,
exactly.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Why aren't you up on the new Jamaican dance and bust
the place?
Same way, you're not doing yourcultural duty, son, exactly,
you know it.
You know me.
You know me.
You're Carrie Ann's son.
You're supposed to know all ofthe latest dance.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
I know all of them, ariel, if you take over and
teach me now.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Ariel, oh my God.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
The other thing I think that we have to kind of
talk about is and I say I saythis to you all the time I hear
a lot that there's no good music.
I know that's not true and it'sjust simply not true, right?
I think we also, as we age, wehave to get away from the idea
that there is no good musiccoming from our artists, because
(42:43):
it does a disservice to thecatalog that they're continuing
to try to do.
While you might not like it,you know, beanie man is still
releasing new music.
That's for his fans, that's forhis tried and true, who really
want to listen and hear what heand grow with him.
And I get one alert last week,but I I think, I think that the
(43:07):
challenge that particularlywould dance on I think hip-hop
is having it too is it was builtoff of that youthful energy.
So if we look at hip-hop, youlook at, like LL Cool J, ja Rule
, nelly, jay-z, nas they allhave this following but have
elevated out of the things thatthey used to talk about.
(43:30):
And we as dancehall artists weas dancehall artists let me add
artists we are growing up withour generation as well, and so I
think when they do releasemusic, it is a challenge for an
artist because the hype isreally with the younger artists.
(43:51):
However, the artists that aretheir age, because I mean Sham
Bonte, agents of Vegas they'veall released, released music and
Spice.
She's not young.
She came out when we were inour teens, early twenties, but
(44:12):
she's been around since Lady Sawdays, later days in the 90s.
Later days, like the early 2000s, she was part of that crop in
the 2000s that came up and shereally didn't get her big break
until a little bit later in herlife.
Very similar to a lot of theseartists, they've been doing
music for a while and they don'tnecessarily get all of their
(44:36):
hits in their early careers andwhile they're young.
So I think, you know, we haveto kind of consider that those
artists are aging and we owe itto them to to listen to whatever
they release as well.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
Go ahead like there are two examples that come to
mind um, I think, agent sascoI've, I believe yes, I've been
maturing with.
Yes I've been maturing with,like some girl don't like you,
like you know, come all the wayup like local, like I feel like
(45:15):
we're maturing on and keepingpace and I think that's an
example other than Bujo album,with this one Baga song.
I think Bujo also and sascodoes it with his collaboration
with Lila IK, I think would youalso does that in a different
way.
That was always Bujo from voiceof Jamaica, where you will, you
(45:38):
will see him do collaborationswith John Legend, from what?
Speaker 2 (45:42):
a girl named again Victoria Monet, right, and, and
you know, still kind of makesongs like up to this day I
still play, beat them, but theymight go feel a bit like I love
that song, yes, yes, but knowthere are examples and I try to
but again, you're a music person, right, and I think we got to
(46:06):
also look at it from theeveryday person who doesn't like
you're looking out for itbecause it's still of interest
to you Like, passive listeningjust doesn't move the needle for
anybody in our category.
You know what I mean.
So it's better to talk aboutnot liking it than just not
(46:27):
saying anything you know what Imean?
yeah, it's like you and I talkabout it all the time if you're
just releasing to crickets, thenI'm gonna go where I'm gonna
get the response, and if theyoung people are responding,
even though I'm older, I'm gonnago there, because that's
exactly where I'm getting thebest response.
Like, everybody isn't going,like, I think Beanie man is in
(46:49):
that weird space of he's notnecessarily getting the response
from his core fans, but he alsoisn't saying much that is new
or relevant to his targetaudience, and so he's trying to
rally back for the young people,and the young people is like
nah, come out there, you have towork for this, and I think
(47:10):
that's really what is happening.
But they also, like you know,artists got egos, so it's like I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
But I think overall, as we are maturing our culture,
identity is shifting, but it'snot a loss, it's just evolving
and how we then move to passingdown culture.
And again, an example is mewanting my son to be able to do
the latest dance moves.
(47:39):
Even my mother would callbecause we know he danced right.
So my mom would constantlyEthan you know how to do the
latest dance moves.
Even my mother would callbecause we know he danced right.
So my mom would constantlyEthan you know how to do the new
dance, because growing up theadults watched us dancing.
So she's like waiting to watchhim do the dance.
When he go, he doing the this,whatever drill dance and all
this stuff, and I'm like allright, I see you, you can move,
(48:00):
but which part the movementthere?
You know how much work I had todo to teach him gennavose back
in the day.
You know this, right, I get allthe videos.
All right, come, let's do it.
Line up, line up, let's do this.
And he caught it One, two,three gennavose, gennavose,
gennavose, like.
(48:21):
And he got it and I wasrecording him and I would say
look, because your foot up andgo lean exactly dancer to dancer
.
You understood, we have to getit right right so it's it's so.
So it's about how are we passingsome of this culture to the
(48:43):
kids, so it goes away from usconsuming it and to us, you know
, handing it over or trying topass it off to our kids and I've
seen how that works, you know.
So they're catching aspects ofit, but the parts that I really
want them to get.
Like even my cousin and saidall right, ethan, you know to do
(49:05):
this dance.
All right, I forgot to thebasics you have to know for the
bogle, right.
It's almost like and I wantpeople to understand that the
minute you can do bogle and youcan move your body a certain way
, you're able to do most of theother dance them yeah right,
we're simplistic in a sense.
It's just exactly makeup andthese newer dances are just a
(49:25):
reconstruction of some of theseolder dances.
So once you can do bogle at avery minimum, right it's.
I feel like that's just a likein ballet.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
You know what we did not talk about, what the visual
elements, which visual element,videos I mean.
But like the way, the way, theway that we used to convene to
watch videos, whether it beparty dvds, videos on tv, video
(49:58):
music box, caribbean rhythms,all of those that just doesn't
happen.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
But also I come from an era where that wasn't a thing
the biggest.
I mean, there are many videosyou used to watch at Jamaica,
but I don't think that onSaturday in Jamaica you'd have
something on JBC called Music,Music, Music and that's where
you got all the videos, Not justJamaican videos.
So I remember certain videos,but it wasn't tied to the video,
(50:26):
I think I think maybe that wasa diaspora thing.
It's a diaspora thing, for sure.
I was okay without the video,but that all changed with two
videos One Shabba Chela Lord andShaka Dimas and Pliers Murder.
She Wrote two videos one shabbatrailer lord and um shakadima
sam pliers murder.
She wrote because they were Ihate to say this but I'm just
(50:50):
going to use the term thatpeople were responding.
It looked foreign like in theproduction quality or the
production value.
Yeah, it was shabba's trailerlord and then ending tingaling,
and then it was also around thetime with Chaka Dimas and Playa
Murder.
She Wrote right, so thosevideos had this very high
production value that people arelike Whoa.
(51:11):
And now we were, you know,paying attention to dance off
video specifically and no, Isaid dance off videos because
Ziggy Marley and the MelodyMakers been making videos, but
that's marley and the melodymakers been making videos, but
that's reggae and that's alwaysbeen treated separately.
Um versus dancehall videos.
That had like this high umproduction value in in terms of
(51:32):
the music videos yeah, there'sdefinitely a whole era of sean
paul videos, elephant man videos.
Give me the lights that give melike I think every generation,
every decade has a definingvideo and I think the trilla
lord and um video and theshakadimas and pliers and then
(51:52):
if we move it, the give me thelight video set off a whole new
set of visuals.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
And then even, but even likebefore that, like I remember
watching um party videos likedvd bus ride videos.
Yeah, all of them, yeah yes,and we used to, like you know,
sit and watch and see who we'regonna see, and that kind of.
Thing like those things, justnostalgically don't really
(52:22):
happen anymore.
So it it kind of goes back tolike also, like where are the
spaces and places where youconsume in community, to kind of
discover the dance portion ofthe culture that is music
shifted and I think we're justfinding new ways based off how
(52:43):
technology has shifted, how toconsume and share and keep up.
Quote unquote.
I think we're trying, we canmake a concerted effort to do a
little bit more, but I do thinksome of the technological
advances help with the discovery.
But again, we're a generationthat is used to being fed and in
(53:07):
this current climate it'salmost like you have to find.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
And I also want to say there's exceptions to the
rule, right, in terms of thereare some people or age that will
keep up with the new music, thenew artists.
Not everyone is like, oh, Ican't keep up.
So you have those who aren'tmusic heads but they just want
to feel, you know, make surethat they're still connected to
culture, right.
And then you're those who arelike all right, I love music,
(53:33):
I'm a music head.
And those who are like allright, this is industry, this is
part of the job.
But you know, again, again, allof that to say is there are
different ways.
Like you said, juggling is gone.
I think one way djs can mix itup a little bit.
We went to an event and you knowthey were playing all the good
music when they're sitting onthat eat and I'm like, mix up
(53:54):
some of that.
Because if you look into theaudience, I'm not, I know pure
spring chicken, another player,some big people.
So when people are sitting downand enjoying their meals, it's
a balance between a particularpace of music, but that's also
when you introduce some newsongs, because, um, I feel like
they can sit and listen and saywhat kind of song this you know
and you run it back, if it's adance tune, a little bit later.
(54:16):
But we can't go from the waythat dj select music that you
start with your early warm andthe older tunes and work your
way up to the newer tunes.
You can't really do that whenyou have like a mixed crowd or a
dinner thing where you havebigger people.
You have to kind of flip that,that mix or how you juggle a
little bit around like yourfront load some of the newer
(54:38):
songs.
When people are sit down and amill around before the team
start, I get to play it again.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
So that's just a thought for me absolutely, and I
feel like we could talk evenmore about this.
We're already at an hour.
This is crazy, so you and I candefinitely talk music, um, and
I think this conversation almostI'm thinking about a part two
yeah, that could be interesting.
(55:03):
Yeah, all right, my peeps.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode.
Kerianne, thank you for lendingyour time as well.
I appreciate you always forcoming and chatting to the
people, lynn.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
I appreciate being invited.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Well, until next time , lea tamme peeps.
Welcome to the Style and Vibes podcast.
With me, Makayla, I'll begiving you the inside scoop on
music, fashion, culture and morefrom Caribbean celebrities and
tastemakers across the globe,pushing our culture with
authenticity and, of course,style and vibes.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of
the Style and Vibes podcast withyours truly Makayla.
If you are new here, welcome tothe family.
If you're returning, welcomeback family.
And today is really a familything because the executive
producer in the building today,kerianne, tell the people who
are going.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Boy, everything are going and nothing are on at the
same time.
But everything is everything.
It's typical jamaicans arespeaking parables.
What everything?
I'll go on and nothing noweverything is everything I
understand.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Still, you know and then you say everything is
everything, and I know the cmtboy, so I had to tap you because
we have so many differentoffline conversations around
today's music and keeping up andwith your carry on friends
(01:15):
community.
You kind of pose this question,um, from a cultural standpoint.
So rather than, as we do,always chat out an episode
versus recording the episode, Isay you know what may not chat
it out today, we're gonna recordit and and produce it for the
people then.
So let's start with, I think, Ihave something to say.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I want to say that was a very proud moment.
You know self restraints to sayzip it, let's record it, let's
put it on wax.
Well, you don't put nothing onwax.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I like it.
I thought music where I put iton wax.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yes, we are getting better.
We are getting better becauseyou know you and I would talk
out a whole entire topic andthen can't record the episode
because we already don't talk,and then you and I know like
it's not the same energy thatthen when we have the
conversation the first time andI think this one is particularly
(02:14):
interesting because we've hadtidbits of this conversation but
we haven't had a holisticconversation and it's really
sparked by the question from acultural standpoint that you
pose to your community.
So I want you to share it withthe Style and Vibes family so we
can kick off the right way.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah.
So, as you know, you know I'velong since been talking about
and I've recorded multiplepodcasts where I mentioned some
matriculate altar, you dance,all dancing and stuff, because a
large part of my identitygrowing up in high school and
even for a while, was like I wasthat girl who had the metro
media, the stone, love cassette,then manure, all at a new dance
(02:56):
, and that was still well intoaspects of my adulthood and it
was during times producing styleand vibes.
I realized that I was relyingon what you were suggesting to
the audience in that seasonwhere you were talking about the
songs that you enjoyed, and Ikind of said to you like I don't
(03:16):
know if I could keep up withthis, and what really triggered
the recent conversation was umliquor cause uh, our niece you
know the title rotate dependingon our mood sent me a text that
idonia is celebrating his 20years in the in dancehall and
(03:38):
it's at UBS.
Arena or whatever and then inthe same breath she sent me say
carter la com, i'ma look funny.
The first, the first one thatreally got me, was idonia,
because I was like I remember,and then I'm ahead, I'm like
tune, true, true like.
And I was like, oh, one yearwhen I went to ati before it was
dream weekend, whatever.
(03:59):
I remember seeing him downthere and I'm like yo, 20 years,
like that's really a starkseeing him down there and I'm
like yo, 20 years, like that'sreally a stark, like yo, 20
years.
And then messian Noah no good,even though the lineup have
other people that I would wantto see.
But I was like the last idoniasong I'm literally singing was
pre-pandemic.
That is a song that's in myphone.
(04:20):
I'm not hearing anything newidonia and I was like nah, I'm
good, because me no want goingat the arena, everybody are vice
out new tune.
And then me stand up there.
You know, like when you singsong and you know somebody they
flop the word of the song andthey nah sing it right.
I don't want to be that auntie.
I don't want to be that auntiewhen I know the tune and they
(04:40):
mumble and they replace lyricswith what?
Lyrics is not there and I waslike I'm cool and so I posed
this to my audience am I theonly one who's experiencing this
?
And you know there were peoplewho replied and said no, I
wasn't the only one, and we kindof talked about how they were
finding new music.
So different people told medifferent ways they were
(05:02):
listening to new music or howsome people are just sticking to
what they are familiar with,what was in their era, and that
era varies.
And then I actually had afollow up poll that says which
aspects of your culture that youare not necessarily leaving
behind but not keeping up withnot necessarily leaving behind,
(05:24):
but not keeping up with and Igave multiple options and an
overwhelming amount over almost67% said they weren't keeping up
with music.
And I remember I called you andI was like yo, we have some data
to have the conversation.
And on top of that, so I couldround out the story, I sent the
results in the newsletterfollow-up and one of my engaged
(05:48):
audience members, mikey T, saidlisten, I have a lot to say
about this music thing.
And I said I'm sure you knowwe'll get into that.
But he talked about, you know,the slattness argument, which
makes sense because that's whatpeople use.
But you and I know that theslattness argument is easily
makes sense because that's whatpeople use.
But you and I know that theslattness argument is easily
debunked.
You understand and I said no,it's actually more nuanced than
(06:12):
that, and so in thisconversation we're going to go
into the nuance from an identityperspective and the other
things that are impacting that,why we are like not keeping up
with music and and the.
The survey actually highlightedsomething else that I'm excited
to get into.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I think what, what was interesting when you came to
me and I was just like, okay,now let's really have a
conversation about it, becauseeven myself, you know, I'm not a
spring chicken.
I'm not necessarily hanging outin the different spaces and
places, but I do like todiscover new music.
So I'm constantly looking fornew music and I'm on the lookout
(06:54):
.
And, because of the nature ofthe podcast, I do get a lot of
like submissions of new music,whether they be well known or or
not well-known at all.
I get the gamut of it and I candefinitely tell you, you know,
the digital age has allowed forso much new music to be released
(07:16):
and I think it's not the soleissue around keeping up with new
music, but I think that it'sthe biggest one that we have,
particularly in the Napster andLimeWire.
And after timeframe, right,because you know, during that
era you went from having acassette tape that had 45 to 90
(07:40):
minute, 120 minute time span ontwo sides of the tape.
Previously you also had CDs.
Vinyl can only hold but so manydifferent songs and now you
literally have so many songs atyour fingertips.
So the share volume of music in2024, there was more music
(08:03):
released in a single day thanthe entire year of 1989.
So it's like just putting thatinto perspective 120,000 new
tracks are uploaded on averageevery day to these DSPs and
these streaming services.
Not to say that all of that isgood music and we can have the
quality conversation all day.
(08:26):
But I think that that is one ofthe biggest barriers to kind of
keeping up quote unquote withnew music is the sheer volume.
And then when you look atcaribbean music, particularly
reggae and dancehall, we'vealways been a singles driven
market where tunes after tunesafter tunes, they're just
(08:46):
released.
They're not tied to aparticular project or you know.
Now, with rhythms not being athing, it's not like it's not as
big of a deal as it once was interms of identifying the
rhythms and knowing that aspectof the culture, because juggling
doesn't happen in the same wayanymore either.
(09:08):
So I think there's a lot interms of keeping up with new
music feels like a differenttask now.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
That is also coupled with us getting older, yeah, so
you touched on a couple ofthings and you talk about the
technology and you talk aboutrhythms.
Right, rhythms was a marker bywhich people would have some
kind of familiarity with music.
So you may not like all thesongs on a rhythm, but you were
(09:41):
able to identify that this isthat rhythm, the Diwali rhythm,
or this rhythm, or that rhythm,the stink or whatever buzz,
whatever it was right.
You kind of had a generalunderstanding.
So if once the rhythminstrumental kind of come on,
you kind of were open to thesong to hear what else would
come on that rhythm, that's one.
(10:02):
So with the fragmentation ofthe music industry, you know it
shifted from passive discovery,right.
So growing up, we're in the car,we're listening to music and we
had, in addition to shiftingfrom radio, we have, a
contraction of the number ofCaribbean radio stations or even
(10:24):
the shows that were onmainstream radio.
Specifically.
I'm in Brooklyn, so you know,like David Levy is pushed much
later into the night, I thinkhe's like on late Saturday night
, but he was on Sunday nightversus I can't remember no more
versus Bobby Kandas and Jabba.
I knew that four o'clock, fiveo'clock on a Sunday growing up,
(10:48):
that was the slot right andthey're not in that slot anymore
.
You have the modern DJs who areCaribbean inspired, that will
play a tune, but you don'treally have the same dedication
on those frequency that we caneasily get.
And then with internet radio,most people don't have that.
And I also want to point out,as I was thinking about this and
(11:12):
maybe I'm really aging myself Iused to work in a law firm and
everybody had a little radio attheir desk, you know, or in
their office, and it wasn't loudto the point where.
Why are all these radios onright?
It was so low because we weresitting in cubicles that you had
to really be in the person'scubicle space to kind of hear
what was playing on the radio.
(11:32):
And so I constantly knew thatfrom the morning to the
afternoon I was going to be onkiss, and then, when Michael
Bay's then came on in theafternoon, we have a switch to.
You know what I mean.
And so because we're notlistening via radio, which was
our main source of beingintroduced to music, because the
technology is great and it'sgiven access to many people, but
(11:55):
there's this element of humancuration in a way that we really
validated, and so I told youthe story and I know I'm calling
a bunch of names, but it reallyillustrates the point right.
This happened story and I knowI'm calling a bunch of names,
but it really illustrates thepoint right.
This happened over a year ago.
I'm picking up my mother fromthe airport and we're driving
home and it's on hot 97 andFunkmaster Flex is introducing a
(12:16):
new track.
He plays 30 seconds of thetrack and pull up the tune the
whole way, the whole 15 minuteride back home.
He pulls up the track and atone point my mama said am I
gonna play the full song?
We haven't changed the stationbecause we're waiting for the
whole song to play, but itbrought us back to an era where
(12:38):
the the dj on the radio notgonna dash out a song for me.
I'm going to tease it, I'mgoing to pull it up again, I'm
going to get a new tune.
He's excited, it's integratedinto that show, and so we kind
of lose all of that.
Now me, I have to go actively,intentionally, figure out I want
a new song.
Then I have to go through thesocial media door and I can't
(13:01):
bother with it, and then whathappens is it becomes an echo
chamber of whatever thealgorithm is feeding and
whatever people are using ontheir reels and tick, tock,
that's what everybody is hearing.
And then people say this songand then you know it's really,
um, a selection of, maybe afraction of what's really out
there.
So technology has reallydisrupted how we as a people
(13:25):
listen to music.
And this last point Mikey T hadkind of said that it is not our
job to keep up with musicunless it's somebody's job, so
like for you running thispodcast or for a DJ.
And this is where I wanted todisagree.
We keep up with music becauseit's so much part of our
identity.
(13:45):
We love music.
So what I wanted to go back to,on the surveys, over 67% said
they weren't keeping up with themusic.
One option was are you keepingup with concerts, fests,
carnival?
Nobody responded to that, right.
So that means that they may notbe actively going out and
seeking new music, but they'restill going out to party and
(14:08):
enjoy themselves, right?
So it's like on one end it'sexhausting, and you know this,
exhausting to find out what'sthe new song, but they're still
engaging with culture and wherethey potentially could hear
music, they just want to be ableto be fed or introduced to
music in a way that doesn't feellike it's so much work to do.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I think you said a lot of different things.
So we are a generation that hadbeen fed and I think with every
generation we have to put age,place and space into the
positioning where.
When you were younger, how didyou learn about new music?
(14:51):
It was radio, it was parties,it was other people sharing.
My friend is a DJ, so they gotme the latest I'm buying a
mixtape or all of those thingswe no longer do.
Right, and that also has to dowith age, because if you're not
(15:14):
actively buying a mixtape orseeking out new mixes, in a way
you're not actively partying inspaces to hear new music,
specifically for new music,because you can go out and go to
old school parties where youknow, like when you get older,
your experiences in terms ofgoing out needs to be valuable
(15:39):
because you have less time.
When you are younger, you havemore time discretionary time to
have a bad time, but you'rehaving a bad time with people
that you love.
And so you and I remember weall go party thursday, friday,
saturday, sometimes sunday andindustry tuesday, and we just no
longer do them as you get olderand so you're no longer in this
(16:01):
place or place and radio radiohasn't broken new artists in a
very long time, like it's alwaysreally been.
You already had to have a, abubble in the streets.
You had to have some sort ofrecognition of people already
talking about you from anindustry perspective, or you had
(16:24):
to have the backing of someindustry gatekeeper, big
promoter, dj, somebody to put astamp on it and recommend it.
And radio right now is the lastplace.
So if a song from TikTok ends upon the radio, that means it's
already been played out in thatarena of younger consumers as
(16:50):
well, and so, in addition to itbeing fragmented as we get older
, we're no longer not to saythat we're not interested in
learning about new music.
We're just not in a position toprioritize it over the
lifestyle of.
You know, I'm running mybusiness or I'm focused in my
(17:10):
career, and so some of thosesocial gatherings become premium
spots where you're like I wannago, where I'm guaranteed to
have a good time.
I'm not necessarily guaranteeda good time to go listen to this
new artist that I've neverheard on a Wednesday evening,
like is it valuable and is it abest use of my time?
(17:32):
And so we are as a people.
If you're interested, there arereally limited places to
discover new music and it'skeeping up with podcasts or
music people, curators butthere's so many more curators
now or it's really the streamingservices and their
recommendations, and that's awhole other conversation around.
(17:54):
Recommendation because you stillhear new music, right, you
still know something when youlike it, when you do hear it, or
you don't like it, and it couldbe playing all over the radio
or playing all over whateveryour timeline, anywhere else,
and it could be popular andyou're not really that crazy
about it.
But I think also, as we getolder, we just have more
(18:19):
priorities on your plate and somusic, even though it's this
thing that you truly, truly loveand you want to engage it, it
becomes a chore, whereas itwasn't a chore when you were 20.
Like, I remember telling Kirk Iwas like I can't even remember
the last time I played music toget ready to go out and I still
(18:39):
go out.
But I'm like somebody got to goto know one is watching tv.
I don't want to disturb thelittle one, so I have to wait
till I get into my car.
By that time I'm in my car, I'mlike I haven't created my mix
and I'm like, well, I just, I'mjust gonna go back to whatever
is familiar, because I want tohear good music as I'm about to
(19:00):
touch the road.
But it's not as seamless.
It is more effort, right, partof us we're sad that it's so
much more effort, because thisused to be this effortless thing
.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
So what you're talking about is what I, you
know, I've been working on andwhat we're experiencing and I've
been experiencing for a verylong time Everybody always I'm
all up myself been experiencingfor a very long time.
Everybody, always I'm all upmyself.
But it's this transition fromyouth to, like, adulthood we're
not quite elder yet but youth toadulthood where we feel like,
okay, we don't want to keep upwith current, um, music and
(19:37):
dance trends, and I mean dancetrends, because that was big for
us.
Like you know, I keep sayingwhen was the last dance me?
Feel like me can do as bigauntie, not the dance, because
I'm very, you know, I'm verymindful.
I don't want going to the youngpeople them dance and look like
the big woman who not reallysupposed to.
They, not the young people themdance.
You understand what I'm saying,but anyway, and then we start
shifting to well, we are moreconscious of it because we know
(20:00):
what that looks like looks, ohwe for sure know what
it looks like Like uh-uh, thiswon't be me, but we're shifting
from keeping up with the currentdance trends and music and
we're shifting to the culturalclassics and kind of what you
talked about.
We're doing more, you know,family-centered activities so we
(20:22):
can't really vibes up with selfbefore the party.
There are certain songs wecan't play.
I remember, you know, I used togo to jamaica.
A lot of my friend would giveme like some mix cds and this
was before, you know, apple andall these things because he
would give me the clean versionthat plays on jamaican radio.
Because you know, say you know,that's the only ones that can
play in other hosts are with thekids them in other hosts you
(20:44):
can't play the racha version,and so these are like the many
ways where it feels hard to keepup and how we can truly say,
okay, let us all go listen tothe mix cd here and go and clean
up the holes.
You can't really do that, youknow, because of putting them
the boat and it's just like,yeah, you can't do that.
So I wanted to come back to thisidea of the quality of music.
(21:07):
So Mikey T was, as a youth, hewas defensive because and I said
yeah, the argument about themusic to slack is for social
media.
You know, when you post it,everybody bone to get some level
of engagement.
And I said we can debunk thatmyth.
Everybody is looking at the 90sright now through Rose colored
lens and it wasn't like that, meknow.
(21:29):
Some artists where yo, we arestill say the song are really,
when they're playing, like evengoing back even to the 80s.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
You know, even before that like some watching two
videos on Instagram, and one isthis girl is singing.
She got a.
She looks young younger thanyounger than me, for sure and
she's singing.
Uh, lady saw a family.
She's singing it like she.
She knows the entire lyrics.
(21:59):
That's an old song, it's not anew song that was the era of
power man.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I need you to go hear some of the power man song them
.
You're like what I rememberwhere I was in high school in
ninth grade when one of myclassmates she was just funny
all she came in and she was likecock up, cock up.
I was like what is she talkingabout?
Only position, just come out asa song.
(22:26):
And everybody I was like whatyou know.
So, and even going into the 80sthere was this song.
I can't remember the name.
The song is so creepy becausebasically the dj, I sing about
him, I look funny.
Mother and father, they doadult things right.
And the argument about the musictoday is more slack.
(22:47):
It doesn't land for me and I'lltell you a story.
So in 2008 there was a 50thbirthday party.
Can you imagine 2008?
And this older couple love thembecause you know them vibes you
when them go, it's you know,because it's a mixed thing, and
you just hear come on, hear mysong when you're coming on my
(23:07):
rampage, like that was theirsong, and so the slackness.
And whether a song is slack, Ithink it's just relative to the
person and, of course, as youget older, you kind of find it
jarring because now you havekids a certain age and as moms,
you're like oh you know, youstart think about what you was
doing.
Now you have Pitney at acertain age.
(23:29):
But music, if music isintroduced in a way where people
can get to know it and toexperience it, if they're first
hearing about it at a party,you're not going to dance to it,
you're going to stop and you'regoing to try to take it in the
song.
And that's not what people wantwhen they go to a party.
They want to feel like they'reconstantly dancing, which is why
(23:50):
, yes, Now.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
But when you were 20 and the DJ was like, let me play
that new tune.
But when you were 20 and the DJwas like you're listening
(24:20):
because you know that theselector is going to as much
here, at least in my experienceslike breaking of new records
and a lot of times people justdon't want to be bothered and I
don't know if that's agenerational thing or if that is
actually factual across theboard.
So I'd have to ask somebodywho's a little bit younger than
me, like what their scene islooking like.
(24:41):
I think, even going back to theslackness, I think what Mikey T
and I don't wanna likeinterpret, interpret his
understanding of it is there wasstill a sense of creativity,
lyrically right, and I thinkthat, yes, it is more raunchy,
it is more in your face, butthere was a certain level of
(25:04):
creativity when they were likevibes cartel to me is the last
of an era because he would makea distinct clean version and a
distinct explicit version andthey both were top tier lyrical
wordplay innuendo.
So you could play the entire.
(25:25):
It was still slack, but youcould play the clean version and
lyrically it still sounds thesame.
The problem I think a lot ofyoung artists are having is they
just bleep it out and theythink that that's the clean
version and they're not takingthe lessons of the older
generation and creating a morecreative, explicit and clean
(25:46):
version.
Because I haven't heard.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
They just bleep them out.
But I thought, in order to getradio play in jamaica, it's by
law that you needed a versionthat didn't have the bleeps in
it.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
A lot of these songs don't even play on jamaica radio
, but this is what I'm sayingthat's why you you can tell the
difference.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
In order to get radio played, the song had to be an
entirely different version,because there were no bleeps
allowed but here in the statesyou could just bleep it out.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, it's not just jamaican music, reggae dance, el
soca.
It's american music too, likesexy red.
They just bleep out the wordsmegan the stallion same thing.
Cardi b same thing the.
The rules are a little bit morelenient now than they were
before.
But you know there weredefinitive clean versions and
(26:37):
explicit versions and that, Ithink, has changed pretty
drastically in the listeningexperience.
And I really really noticed itwhen TikTok came into play,
because I remember when Sinaigot on TikTok and I was like
they don't have clean versionsof these songs Cause, like I get
(27:00):
it, she's not really listeningtoo much for the lyrics, she's
really just dancing, she'strying to do the whatever the
dance trend is, but now they'vebecome so accustomed to that
they don't really understand thedifference between there's a
time and place and I think ourgeneration was the last of
understanding between there's atime and place, and I think our
generation was the last ofunderstanding that there's a
(27:20):
time and a place of where toplay.
There are certain songs.
Let me just skip them, evenwhen my mother in another room
is there, like I.
I know she probably listens tothe song and I listen to the
song, but I don't, I don't feellike it's the right situation
when I make it serving Sundaydinner, for God's sake, you know
(27:40):
.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
This reminds me of a story.
Christine is a very genericname, but Christine had told me
this was years ago.
Christine had told me Sarah'smother come visit and she's in
the house and the song just comeon me a drive in from grand
jail with a phone and she walkedus up but she said you know she
(28:06):
locked it up.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
You guys just have that be carried.
But it's like the, the it's.
It's those really raunchy songs.
And even I remember I waswatching this video and I'm
gonna send it to you.
I was watching this video oninstagram and this group of for
older women you could clearlytell I think they're like of
asian descent.
I don't know where exactlythey're from, but they're
(28:33):
dancing to gauges dunganayatruett.
I'm old enough to remember whenthat song was initially released
how much backlash it got likeI'm that old because it was.
I remember when it was releasedand radio people did not want
to play it.
People were like what kind ofslackness is this?
(28:53):
This is not our culture.
And blah, blah, blah, noitareinspon tiktok, everybody has seen
it.
It get like this new surgeonsand they're literally dancing
because it's.
It's been like what they callnow a mashup.
They they've kind of made itlike a remix, but it's pretty
popular and I'm just like poorgage.
I remember he, he got all thebacklash from Dong In A Ye Truth
(29:20):
and then come full circle.
Everything at Dong In A YeTruth, like that feels tamed
compared to what we hear comingout of the current dancehall
sound now.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah, well, I'm not hearing it, but I just also want
to say I'm not hearing it.
But I just also want to say I'mnot hearing it, I don't.
So my husband hears music a lotbecause we're when he's in the
car, and when I'm in the car forlong rides, like I told you
about the throwback radiostation I was like, oh shoot,
I'm, I'm on this.
But one of the ways that Idiscover music not just new
(29:58):
music but music that came outyears ago but I'm just hearing
is through music choice, and theintegration of Pandora on these
smart TVs is one of the waysthat I hear music.
So, like the other day, onechronic supply and I'm like, oh,
which chronic song this.
And I looked and this was likechronic supply.
(30:18):
And I'm like, oh, which chronicsong this.
And I looked and this was likea older track and I was like
I've never heard this song, soit's.
It's also again, just all thesedifferent ways that we have
available to consume music andI'm just like this is what makes
it really hard I do think thatthe algorithms are getting
better in terms of for.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
For that reason right , because even I listen, I do
apple music occasionally, I'lldo stuff on spotify or even, um,
some stuff on youtube just tokind of see, like, what is there
and the recommendation.
They're good about recommendinglike similar, like artists,
whether it be like you.
You have to scroll to thebottom or like if you get to the
(30:59):
end of a playlist and it playstwo or three songs at the end,
but the the, the trap there isthat it plays similar.
It's not necessarily thatyou're going to always discover
new music, but I do find thatthat has been a good angle to
(31:20):
kind of passively discover newsongs.
And they have key playliststhat they change frequently.
That's probably the easiest,least work-related, like follow
a playlist that changesfrequently and you can hear some
new sounds.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
You might not like it , but at least you're still
listening to some of it I thinkwhat has worked for me because
I'm not even following nobodyplaylist in anyway um, because I
have apple music.
Apple music is constantlytelling me when new music is out
and that's largely based onwhat's in it.
So the last music you tell meabout a Bounty Killer song come
(32:05):
out the other day as we wererecording this, let me see which
song, because I left it on myalerts If a Bounty song, a
Beanie song come out.
I've seen it tell me aboutluciana, but it's mostly bounty
and beanie.
It suggests to me which tellsyou almost a lot about your
(32:26):
ability.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yes, yes, yes about your beanie, but the challenge
it's not gonna recommend ashancia song or it's not gonna
recommend a stock ashley or actr, skillet bang or you know
what I mean.
Like those are the the youngercrap of of artists, a chronic
law.
But they do have some otherdancehall playlists,
(32:48):
specifically um again.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Oh, I remember what I wanted to say.
So, not because I stick to aparticular era.
I typically tell people say,listen 2012 and earlier.
I'm solidly in that area.
I will listen to other songspast you know 2010.
But I know 2010.
Going back, I solidly knew alot of the songs that were out.
(33:13):
I could even push it to youknow 2012, because by then we
have the second opinion, so it'shard to really keep up.
But it doesn't mean a songdoesn't break through
periodically, and a lot of songsbreak through.
It's just where I hear them forthe songs to break through.
The other thing, too, is thatin the survey what's captured is
(33:37):
keeping up with language likewe don't know the new slang,
them anymore, and so you're notgonna know the new saying, you
know but this is what I'm saying.
We don't know the new slang, andso that sometimes creates a
disconnect in how we feel.
Like, oh, it feel weird forthis hebrafin in this, because I
know I know my thing, this andif the song is, you understand,
(34:00):
those are like some of thethings that came out in the
survey, and so what I've beenfinding are songs that have an
intergenerational appeal.
I'll I'll put this out here.
Barris is on my whiteboardMichaela knows this like circled
and circled, because Barris isa good example of what happens
(34:22):
when people transition fromyouth to adult.
That they go to familiarcultural hits will always have
him garnering new audiencesevery year, because every year
(34:44):
people are graduating into adifferent level of maturity and
you won't go to enjoy yourself.
Yeah, you go see Berris atBrooklyn.
You go up on cruise youunderstand what I'm saying up on
cruise and like, you understandwhat I'm saying and, um, I told
you the story about somebodywho, um, after church, it was
his birthday and you know I saidwhat was your birthday?
(35:05):
And I'm saying, yeah, man, andthen the person who is also as
old as him started happybirthday, my friend, and then me
say one more like, but theseare like in their 70s, but they
are aware because I mean, yes,it's a catching song, but also
more time in the understand whatare young people, I say.
And so the the clarity indiction of the song helps when
(35:29):
there's an intergenerationalappeal to the song.
And I'm not saying every artistneeds to have an
intergenerational appeal.
But if virality and gettingmusic, you know your young, the
young listeners, they mightintegrate the granny and the
grandpas and the aunties.
And if there's a music theyfeel like yo, grandma, you're a
(35:50):
song yet then you know that'skind of what they're looking for
.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
So yeah, yeah, and even to that point, there are
younger artists that have brokenthrough, like Chronix and
coffee, like those are.
Especially coffee is a reallygood example because she's young
young, you know and she wasable to bridge the gap in terms
of, just like you said, beingintergenerational, like the
(36:14):
topic.
The topics of her songs aren'tum far-fetched are highly youth
focused yeah, they're not.
Highly it's youth driven becauseit's coming from her as a young
person.
However, she's delivering herstyle, but the content and the
context of what she is talkingabout uh transcends that,
(36:35):
because you know me and Sanaiwent to a coffee concert and she
had to know a good part of hercatalog and she's fairly new in
terms of that, a younger crop ofartists.
So every and then, every nowand again, like we get a busy
signal song or we get an agentsasko song or we get like
something that kind ofepitomizes that.
(36:57):
So I think that the next cropof dance artists they're not
young, you know, they're goingto have to think about that too
and their fans will have totransition with them, similarly
to how we have transitioned withartists of our era.
I think it feels like work,because there's just so many
(37:20):
different ways and so manydifferent things that we no
longer feel as connected to itand I think in part it saddens
us because it was such a hugepart of who we were that we then
turn around and like, oh, nowwe are the aunties of the
generation.
Like what is happening that wedon't know, or like or like.
(37:44):
You know you feel yourselfcomplaining like, but this isn't
good and I don't consider itgood.
But it's also the same.
When you eating really goodfood, you're not really gonna go
back to the bad, bad drinks.
You food, you're not reallygoing to go back to the bad, bad
drinks you know.
Like you're not going to ordera whiskey sour, that was like
(38:04):
the ninth.
A lemon cello Like you're notgoing to order that when you've
been drinking for 20 plus years.
A martini that you saw on sexin the city.
Like it's okay to grow andstill yearn for that connection,
but it doesn't have to beforced.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
I don't think it's not a disconnection, it's an
evolution right.
We're still connected to theculture.
Say it one more time for thepeople, then it's not a
disconnection, it's an evolution, right, and we are moving from
a place of keeping up with themusic to now into a preservation
mode, because we're stillplaying the old tracks in the
(38:45):
way of the way that we'replaying 90s, that bad light, 90s
dancehall before 90s, dancehall, 80s.
You remember that some fest wedid watch I guess it was 2018
and then in interview, spragaand Spraga did say yeah, me now,
while the young people thenbecause when him did company
scene I remember him saying sameway then they thought about we
too, exactly.
So you know like it's just anevolution and how we adjust to
(39:08):
that is different.
But it doesn't mean that we'relocked off with ears and say we
don't want to hear no moredancehall.
That's not what we're saying.
But we have a sound that wegravitate to and it's not just
dancehall For me.
I love R&B and you know know, Idon't listen to r&b.
The same way, when I did find asong that I like, that is
(39:32):
reminiscent of a particular erathat I liked and I will lock
into that.
But it's not a thing.
And I even listen to some youngpeople who will say, hmm, this
is not my style.
Like, what's the concert thatyou?
Jason Bryson, Tiller, yeah,somebody who was young was like,
yeah, I can't get with that,you know, and I was just like.
(39:52):
At the end of the day, we haveto remember that people have
taste and, you know, everyonehas their own taste and they
will gravitate to what they like.
But me not keeping up with thelatest in music doesn't mean
that I don't still enjoy music.
It's just that how I identifywith it evolved and of course I
want to talk about thepreservation stage because
(40:13):
that's important.
I was known as the one who hadthe latest music and the dances
and know the latest dances.
You know that I want ethan tolearn to do the dances.
He has the potential, but me,no, no the dance.
Then we're not gonna know ifyou do the dance them and I will
leave a video out there withdan.
So who's supposed to do thedance?
And that's why I wasdisappointed when you had you
(40:34):
had told me that somebody waskeeping a class to teach the
young kids the new dances.
They canceled that class, butit's a great opportunity.
Whatever is the, the latestdance craze out of jamaica and
people over there like I wouldlove ethan to to kind of catch
it, because I'm not saying whatI've done the place.
You know something I said, butthat is what I fear that he
(40:55):
doesn't know what the latest?
Speaker 2 (40:57):
also, you gotta go back to.
How did you learn all thosedances?
Yeah, no, no.
But what I'm saying is we don'tnecessarily have to seek and
force, because he'll eventuallyfind it right.
No, I know, that's it.
You know what I mean.
Like we had my.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
My mom, you know, didn't force me to to yeah, but
it's different because our wallypa cousin did another house.
We don't even live the way weused to live back then.
Yes, you know.
So it's not even the same.
Listen, I can't count Well onthe one, two, three, four.
Yo, I went seven years away inthe house one time.
All of the cousins are in thehouse.
(41:35):
You're lucky if you get thefour of them in one space, right
?
So even the way we congregateas a family is different.
So, yes, he will eventually seeit with his friends, but right
now, ethan, no offer to all ofthe American.
Dance them when in my party,everybody there part way and
they film him.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Why you can't do the new Jamaican one, exactly,
exactly.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Why aren't you up on the new Jamaican dance and bust
the place?
Same way, you're not doing yourcultural duty, son, exactly,
you know it.
You know me.
You know me.
You're Carrie Ann's son.
You're supposed to know all ofthe latest dance.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
I know all of them, ariel, if you take over and
teach me now.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Ariel, oh my God.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
The other thing I think that we have to kind of
talk about is and I say I saythis to you all the time I hear
a lot that there's no good music.
I know that's not true and it'sjust simply not true, right?
I think we also, as we age, wehave to get away from the idea
that there is no good musiccoming from our artists, because
(42:43):
it does a disservice to thecatalog that they're continuing
to try to do.
While you might not like it,you know, beanie man is still
releasing new music.
That's for his fans, that's forhis tried and true, who really
want to listen and hear what heand grow with him.
And I get one alert last week,but I I think, I think that the
(43:07):
challenge that particularlywould dance on I think hip-hop
is having it too is it was builtoff of that youthful energy.
So if we look at hip-hop, youlook at, like LL Cool J, ja Rule
, nelly, jay-z, nas they allhave this following but have
elevated out of the things thatthey used to talk about.
(43:30):
And we as dancehall artists weas dancehall artists let me add
artists we are growing up withour generation as well, and so I
think when they do releasemusic, it is a challenge for an
artist because the hype isreally with the younger artists.
(43:51):
However, the artists that aretheir age, because I mean Sham
Bonte, agents of Vegas they'veall released, released music and
Spice.
She's not young.
She came out when we were inour teens, early twenties, but
(44:12):
she's been around since Lady Sawdays, later days in the 90s.
Later days, like the early 2000s, she was part of that crop in
the 2000s that came up and shereally didn't get her big break
until a little bit later in herlife.
Very similar to a lot of theseartists, they've been doing
music for a while and they don'tnecessarily get all of their
(44:36):
hits in their early careers andwhile they're young.
So I think, you know, we haveto kind of consider that those
artists are aging and we owe itto them to to listen to whatever
they release as well.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
Go ahead like there are two examples that come to
mind um, I think, agent sascoI've, I believe yes, I've been
maturing with.
Yes I've been maturing with,like some girl don't like you,
like you know, come all the wayup like local, like I feel like
(45:15):
we're maturing on and keepingpace and I think that's an
example other than Bujo album,with this one Baga song.
I think Bujo also and sascodoes it with his collaboration
with Lila IK, I think would youalso does that in a different
way.
That was always Bujo from voiceof Jamaica, where you will, you
(45:38):
will see him do collaborationswith John Legend, from what?
Speaker 2 (45:42):
a girl named again Victoria Monet, right, and, and
you know, still kind of makesongs like up to this day I
still play, beat them, but theymight go feel a bit like I love
that song, yes, yes, but knowthere are examples and I try to
but again, you're a music person, right, and I think we got to
(46:06):
also look at it from theeveryday person who doesn't like
you're looking out for itbecause it's still of interest
to you Like, passive listeningjust doesn't move the needle for
anybody in our category.
You know what I mean.
So it's better to talk aboutnot liking it than just not
(46:27):
saying anything you know what Imean?
yeah, it's like you and I talkabout it all the time if you're
just releasing to crickets, thenI'm gonna go where I'm gonna
get the response, and if theyoung people are responding,
even though I'm older, I'm gonnago there, because that's
exactly where I'm getting thebest response.
Like, everybody isn't going,like, I think Beanie man is in
(46:49):
that weird space of he's notnecessarily getting the response
from his core fans, but he alsoisn't saying much that is new
or relevant to his targetaudience, and so he's trying to
rally back for the young people,and the young people is like
nah, come out there, you have towork for this, and I think
(47:10):
that's really what is happening.
But they also, like you know,artists got egos, so it's like I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
But I think overall, as we are maturing our culture,
identity is shifting, but it'snot a loss, it's just evolving
and how we then move to passingdown culture.
And again, an example is mewanting my son to be able to do
the latest dance moves.
(47:39):
Even my mother would callbecause we know he danced right.
So my mom would constantlyEthan you know how to do the
latest dance moves.
Even my mother would callbecause we know he danced right.
So my mom would constantlyEthan you know how to do the new
dance, because growing up theadults watched us dancing.
So she's like waiting to watchhim do the dance.
When he go, he doing the this,whatever drill dance and all
this stuff, and I'm like allright, I see you, you can move,
(48:00):
but which part the movementthere?
You know how much work I had todo to teach him gennavose back
in the day.
You know this, right, I get allthe videos.
All right, come, let's do it.
Line up, line up, let's do this.
And he caught it One, two,three gennavose, gennavose,
gennavose, like.
(48:21):
And he got it and I wasrecording him and I would say
look, because your foot up andgo lean exactly dancer to dancer
.
You understood, we have to getit right right so it's it's so.
So it's about how are we passingsome of this culture to the
(48:43):
kids, so it goes away from usconsuming it and to us, you know
, handing it over or trying topass it off to our kids and I've
seen how that works, you know.
So they're catching aspects ofit, but the parts that I really
want them to get.
Like even my cousin and saidall right, ethan, you know to do
(49:05):
this dance.
All right, I forgot to thebasics you have to know for the
bogle, right.
It's almost like and I wantpeople to understand that the
minute you can do bogle and youcan move your body a certain way
, you're able to do most of theother dance them yeah right,
we're simplistic in a sense.
It's just exactly makeup andthese newer dances are just a
(49:25):
reconstruction of some of theseolder dances.
So once you can do bogle at avery minimum, right it's.
I feel like that's just a likein ballet.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
You know what we did not talk about, what the visual
elements, which visual element,videos I mean.
But like the way, the way, theway that we used to convene to
watch videos, whether it beparty dvds, videos on tv, video
(49:58):
music box, caribbean rhythms,all of those that just doesn't
happen.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
But also I come from an era where that wasn't a thing
the biggest.
I mean, there are many videosyou used to watch at Jamaica,
but I don't think that onSaturday in Jamaica you'd have
something on JBC called Music,Music, Music and that's where
you got all the videos, Not justJamaican videos.
So I remember certain videos,but it wasn't tied to the video,
(50:26):
I think I think maybe that wasa diaspora thing.
It's a diaspora thing, for sure.
I was okay without the video,but that all changed with two
videos One Shabba Chela Lord andShaka Dimas and Pliers Murder.
She Wrote two videos one shabbatrailer lord and um shakadima
sam pliers murder.
She wrote because they were Ihate to say this but I'm just
(50:50):
going to use the term thatpeople were responding.
It looked foreign like in theproduction quality or the
production value.
Yeah, it was shabba's trailerlord and then ending tingaling,
and then it was also around thetime with Chaka Dimas and Playa
Murder.
She Wrote right, so thosevideos had this very high
production value that people arelike Whoa.
(51:11):
And now we were, you know,paying attention to dance off
video specifically and no, Isaid dance off videos because
Ziggy Marley and the MelodyMakers been making videos, but
that's marley and the melodymakers been making videos, but
that's reggae and that's alwaysbeen treated separately.
Um versus dancehall videos.
That had like this high umproduction value in in terms of
(51:32):
the music videos yeah, there'sdefinitely a whole era of sean
paul videos, elephant man videos.
Give me the lights that give melike I think every generation,
every decade has a definingvideo and I think the trilla
lord and um video and theshakadimas and pliers and then
(51:52):
if we move it, the give me thelight video set off a whole new
set of visuals.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
And then even, but even likebefore that, like I remember
watching um party videos likedvd bus ride videos.
Yeah, all of them, yeah yes,and we used to, like you know,
sit and watch and see who we'regonna see, and that kind of.
Thing like those things, justnostalgically don't really
(52:22):
happen anymore.
So it it kind of goes back tolike also, like where are the
spaces and places where youconsume in community, to kind of
discover the dance portion ofthe culture that is music
shifted and I think we're justfinding new ways based off how
(52:43):
technology has shifted, how toconsume and share and keep up.
Quote unquote.
I think we're trying, we canmake a concerted effort to do a
little bit more, but I do thinksome of the technological
advances help with the discovery.
But again, we're a generationthat is used to being fed and in
(53:07):
this current climate it'salmost like you have to find.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
And I also want to say there's exceptions to the
rule, right, in terms of thereare some people or age that will
keep up with the new music, thenew artists.
Not everyone is like, oh, Ican't keep up.
So you have those who aren'tmusic heads but they just want
to feel, you know, make surethat they're still connected to
culture, right.
And then you're those who arelike all right, I love music,
(53:33):
I'm a music head.
And those who are like allright, this is industry, this is
part of the job.
But you know, again, again, allof that to say is there are
different ways.
Like you said, juggling is gone.
I think one way djs can mix itup a little bit.
We went to an event and you knowthey were playing all the good
music when they're sitting onthat eat and I'm like, mix up
(53:54):
some of that.
Because if you look into theaudience, I'm not, I know pure
spring chicken, another player,some big people.
So when people are sitting downand enjoying their meals, it's
a balance between a particularpace of music, but that's also
when you introduce some newsongs, because, um, I feel like
they can sit and listen and saywhat kind of song this you know
and you run it back, if it's adance tune, a little bit later.
(54:16):
But we can't go from the waythat dj select music that you
start with your early warm andthe older tunes and work your
way up to the newer tunes.
You can't really do that whenyou have like a mixed crowd or a
dinner thing where you havebigger people.
You have to kind of flip that,that mix or how you juggle a
little bit around like yourfront load some of the newer
(54:38):
songs.
When people are sit down and amill around before the team
start, I get to play it again.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
So that's just a thought for me absolutely, and I
feel like we could talk evenmore about this.
We're already at an hour.
This is crazy, so you and I candefinitely talk music, um, and
I think this conversation almostI'm thinking about a part two
yeah, that could be interesting.
(55:03):
Yeah, all right, my peeps.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode.
Kerianne, thank you for lendingyour time as well.
I appreciate you always forcoming and chatting to the
people, lynn.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
I appreciate being invited.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Well, until next time , lea tamme peeps.
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