AJ Evergreen : Resistance, electoral education, & building abolitionist futures

On this episode, Caroline, Moth Moth Moth, and returning guest co-host—singer of our theme song—Boy Bowser sit down with Aj Evergreen, original co-host of The Trans Narrative Podcast, making her first appearance as a guest. Together, they revisit Aj’s early years growing up as a Jehovah’s Witness, exploring how her insular religious upbringing shaped her understanding of queerness, language, and identity. They delve into the role of education and community in Aj’s journey of self-discovery, as well as how spiritual control and censorship influence the formation of trans and queer lives.

The group takes a critical lens to systems of power—capitalism, electoral politics, and carceral logic—examining how these structures constrain liberation. Aj offers a grounded critique of the two-party system, emphasizing the importance of local voting while acknowledging its limits. They discuss small acts of resistance—ethical consumption, unionizing, and community care—as ways to chip at capitalist dominance. They also highlight the need for solidarity among immigrants, non-citizens, and marginalized people in reclaiming agency.

In a powerful final act, the group envisions transformation rooted in care over punishment. Through laughter, vulnerability, and fierce love, this episode is a bold reminder of what becomes possible when we center authenticity, justice, and collective care.

“Aj Evergreen is a trans woman, ex-Jehovah’s Witness, Leftist, civil rights activist, volunteer with LGBTQ+ community organizations, and unapologetic nerd. She holds a degree in Sociology with an emphasis on Political Science and is passionate about understanding the structures that shape our lives. Raised in an insular, fundamentalist environment where conformity was demanded and queer identities were condemned, Aj’s journey has been one of deep questioning, painful growth, and courageous self-acceptance. After leaving the faith in her early twenties and beginning her transition at 25, she has fought to reclaim her sense of self, choosing to believe in a future where happiness and fulfillment are possible for everyone — not just the chosen few.

Her story reminds us that healing is not about erasing the past, but about living fully and authentically despite it. Through her resilience, advocacy, and fierce dedication to justice, Aj offers a powerful testament to the possibility of building a life rooted in truth, compassion, and hope — even when the foundation you were given was built to collapse.

• ​Buy nothing groups:

https://buynothingproject.org/

• ​American Community Gardening Association:

Tenants unions: https://abolitionnotes.org/a-quick-

guide-to-all-tenants-unions-in-the-us

National immigration law center:

https://www.nilc.org/resources/know-your-rights-what-to-do-if-arrested-detained-immigration/.

National Immigrant Justice Center:

https://immigrantjustice.org/immigration-legal-

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
And well, hi everyone, welcome back to the Trans Narrative
podcast. Today I'm joined with moth,
moth, moth, fine moth. Welcome back.
Hi Darlings. Oh, it's so good to have you.
And joining us, our guest Co host, it's the voice of the
show, Boy Bowser. Welcome, Boy Bowser.

(00:20):
Hello. Hello.
It's happy to be back again. Oh.
It's so good to have you back. And today, joining us as guest.
That's right. As the guest, it's AJ Evergreen.
Oh my God. Hello.
Oh my God, that's me. Hello everybody.
That boy sounds very familiar, doesn't it, Audience?
It's so good to have you back. It's good to see you.

(00:44):
Yeah, something, something aboutorcas.
I was swimming with the orcas and they, they, they let me have
a day off. And so I decided to to come here
and be with all you lovely people.
Oh my God, we thank the Orcas for that.
We appreciate that and for taking down the capitalist so
well. A little bit about AJ before we
get started. Not that you have no idea who

(01:04):
she is, but AJ Evergreen is a trans woman, ex Jehovah's
Witness, leftist civil rights activist, volunteer with LGBTQI
Plus organizations, and an unapologetic nerd.
She holds a degree in sociology with infamous emphasis on
political science and is passionate about understanding
the structures that shape our lives.
Raised in an insular fundamentalist environment where

(01:27):
she where conformity was demanded, in queer ideologies,
where identities were condemned,a JS journey has been one of
deep questioning, painful growthand courageous self acceptance.
After leaving her faith at 19 and beginning her transition at
25, she is spot to reclaim her sense of self, choosing to
believe in a future where happiness and fulfillment are

(01:48):
possible for everyone, not just the chosen few.
Her story reminds us that healing is not about erasing the
past, but about living fully andauthentically despite it.
To her resilience, advocacy, andfierce dedication to justice, AJ
offers a powerful testament to the possibility of building a
life rooted in truth, in passionand home, even when the

(02:10):
foundations you were given were built to collapse.
Oh my God, AJ, thank you for being here.
Thank you so much for being awesome.
Thank you so much for having me.It's it's been a while.
And now we're going to fade off into the music, the music that
you make it. Why don't you?
Why don't you, why don't you sayit, Make it real, Say it to him.

(02:33):
Say it. Make it real.
Make my voice is it's not where it is right now.
I'm like, I, I just finished a whole weekend of doing
back-to-back shows. So my voice is just a little bit
shot and it's not an it's not a singing range right now, as much
as I'd love it to be this. Is the space in between the the
that and so the theme song's playing.

(02:54):
And so now it's going to fade off.
And now Bob Bowser, welcome us back and begin us.
All right. Hi, everyone.
Welcome back to the Trans Narrative Podcast.
I'm Boyd Bowser, and I'm here with Caroline and Moth Moth,
Moth. And we're here interviewing AJ,
who's been on the show for Four Seasons.
That's crazy. Not as crazy like I'm oh God,

(03:18):
where's the time go? I'm 30, which as we all know is
forever in gay years. So oh I'm I'm I'm seen cringing.
I'm sorry. Forget I said anything.
Scratch that. 30 years young. 30years young.

(03:41):
That's that's an accomplishment,though.
I definitely and you've been working with the trans narrative
podcast group for so long. How is working with everyone and
like doing this podcast impactedyou these past couple years?
Yeah, it's been a a a really good experience.

(04:02):
And I think Caroline's mentioneda couple of times on the show
that I was just hanging out in the background of an episode
that another one of her previousCo hosts was enjoying.
I was playing Minecraft and I asI'm opt to do, I couldn't keep

(04:24):
quiet. I had opinions and I wanted them
heard. And Caroline was like, who is
that? Bring that person on.
And the rest was history. And yeah, the the experience has
been fantastic. I've gotten to speak to so many
amazing voices from such a a wide background, you know,
spoken with plenty of drag Queens, spoken with plenty of

(04:47):
activists, spoken with plenty ofpeople in law.
And it's just been amazing to hear, like, everybody's
experiences and what they, what they bring to the table.
It's been great. Yeah.
That's, that's wonderful. I feel like I definitely, and

(05:07):
it's really important now to be able to give, to find community
and have like moments like this to be able to like engage
further with our community because community is all we have
right now. And really emphasizing that
within these like next couple years is really, really going to
be super important. Yeah, absolutely.

(05:30):
It's this, I mean, it's always been a time to build community,
but now in in this moment with what feels like a historical
events happening every other dayis a time where we all really
need to come together and, you know, find our people and not

(05:52):
allow ourselves to remain isolated.
Because it's only through a building communities that we can
we can rise to the challenges that we're facing.
Yeah, so let's get a little bit more into your background and
get more into who you are as a person.
What would you say growing up for you is like?

(06:13):
Yeah, I was. I was raised 1 of Jehovah's
Witnesses. For any of the listeners who
aren't too familiar, it is a a very insular religious
environment, very, very conservative.
I, I occasionally compare it to the Westboro Baptist Church, but

(06:36):
Jehovah's Witnesses are a lot quieter and, but the, the
undercurrents of being very, very, very anti LGBT is very
much present, if maybe not so like, you know, overtly stated,
Jehovah's Witnesses have a slightly better PR team, I

(06:58):
suppose. But so I, I grew up doing, you
know, the stereotypical door knocking, you know, I was, I was
a, a door to door preacher, did a whole lot of Bible reading.
That was kind of like my, my whole world for the 1st 19 years

(07:19):
of my life was being a part of this religion.
And then when I got into my, my later teen years, I started to
do, you know, more, more critical thinking more, you
know, finding myself and understanding what my own world
view was. And I've always kind of been

(07:41):
motivated by a, a quest to understand things better.
So I, I was never satisfied withpeople just telling me, Oh, we,
we do this because the Bible says X.
Like I always wanted to know, like, OK, why does the Bible say
that though? Why does the Bible say that?

(08:04):
Or why does this religion say that?
I want, I want like real in depth, solid answers.
And so coming out of that environment, I had a pretty big,
like a debate bro edgy atheist phase where, you know, you
couldn't stop me from arguing with anyone about anything.

(08:26):
I've, I've since calmed down a little bit as like my, my own
world view has gotten a bit nuanced as far as like religion
and spirituality and, you know, politics and what have you goes.
But I, I still have to think I'mmaintaining a lot of that like
inquisitive nature where I always want to understand how

(08:48):
things work. So I, I, I read a lot of
history, a lot of political science, a lot of philosophy,
like anything like any like tangentially related to the
humanities, like I soak it up like a sponge.
So yeah, that's that. That's my my background.
That's awesome. See, as I also have a background

(09:09):
in being a Jehovah's Witness. Whoa.
So. I feel like that must have come
up before and I I'm totally spaced about that and like hi
hello. You're totally good.
You're totally good, I. I'm currently a Jehovah's
Witness and I actually I'm here to talk to y'all specifically

(09:32):
about Jesus's love. I'm gonna.
Leave the chat now, it was nice seeing you all.
Don't go, I have a brochure. Oh my God, the brochures bring
back a lot of memories. A lot of a lot of traumatic
memories. But I was kidding.
Well. It a lot of it.

(09:54):
A lot of it was just like brochures of like what to do
about the gay problem and stuff like that.
And I was, I was really involvedin like a lot of like Hispanic
Jehovah's Witnesses, like communities.
So that was like primarily how Igrew up.
So when you started agent, when you started talking about
Jehovah's Witnesses, I was like,oh, yeah, me too.

(10:15):
Yeah. The going door to door, going to
a lot of the being super involved in the church.
And I feel like once I started real realizing I was queer and
like, I was like, OK, I can knowthis is no longer a safe space
for me. I need to leave.

(10:35):
So it's cool. But it's definitely, I
definitely feel you with the Westboro Baptist Church like
references, like at at least with how like insular and like
culty the community can really feel like.
And it's definitely was one of the reasons why I started

(10:59):
becoming like that thirst for knowledge because a lot of it
was just any questions that people would have to be
explained away with, like because God said so, because God
said so. So I feel like I like even
though that experience was traumatic for me, similarly to
you, AJII feel like it helped mebuild that inquisitive like

(11:21):
thirst for knowledge and being like, I want to learn the reason
why things happen the way they do.
I don't just want some like broad answer that isn't actually
an answer to the question I'm asking.
Yeah, absolutely. And that was that.
That kind of was a process of gradually chipping away at my

(11:45):
faith was the elders in my congregation not being able to
answer my questions. Like I would come to them with
this or that. I was like, why does the Bible
say this? Or why does the Jehovah's
Witness version of the Bible saythis?
Or why, why does our religion teach this?
And I more often than not, like I couldn't get good compelling

(12:09):
answers. And, you know, half the time I
kind of got the the stink eye islike, why are you even asking
these questions? Because, you know, if if you ask
the wrong questions, they they will be inclined to brand you
what they call apostates, right?Like someone who actively
criticizes the faith. So yeah, I'm, I'm totally with

(12:33):
you there. And As for my queer identity, it
was kind of strange because withhow insular my upbringing was,
like I didn't even go to public school, so I didn't even have
like that point of reference forthe outside world.

(12:56):
I, I didn't really have the mental language to understand
what being clear was or what being clear meant.
I like, I, I knew that trans people existed because like
every once in a while, like I would catch a sitcom on TV or
whatever and you know, trans people will be the butt of the

(13:17):
joke. But I didn't, I didn't
understand that being trans was something that I couldn't be
until I was like basically already an adult.
So yeah. Well, how would you say that?
How would you say that? I know, you know, you were, you

(13:38):
lived in that insulin community for a long time.
How would you say going into college and like education and
being able to like learn more, not just about like yourself and
about the world, how would you say that impacted you?
Yeah, so I, I was kind of a late, a late bloomer as far as
like my education when I there, there was no high school, I

(14:02):
didn't have a high school education.
And so I but I, I always wanted to have a proper education.
And so I like I try my best to to keep up with my peers.
Like, I went and got a GED around the same time that I

(14:23):
would have gotten a high school diploma.
And then then I got into like the, the working world and I
didn't really have a lot of timeto focus on education.
But, you know, into my 20s, I decided I want to, wanted to go
to college. And an education for me was

(14:44):
always kind of, it might sound kind of funny, an act of
rebellion because, you know, you, you have Jehovah's
Witnesses who are like by default against any kind of
higher education. But yeah.
Really. Yeah, I didn't know.
That, yeah, they, they have the mentality that so Jehovah's

(15:05):
Witnesses are like a, you know, end times, like we are getting
close to the end of this old world kind of religion.
And so they, they have the mentality that if you are a
faithful believer, why would youbother going to college because
this old world is ending anyway.Yeah.

(15:27):
Yeah, it's also about like considering faith as fate, like
dedicating yourself into Bible study and faith studies is the
higher education 'cause there's no higher education than God,
that type of thing. So I I definitely get you.
Well, how, how do you feel like,do you feel like getting your

(15:50):
experience in college? Like, how do you feel like it
really opened you up to sort of the like, the career that you
have now and being more politically active and being
involved in the queer communities?
How did that kind of come about?Yeah.
So my educational background is primarily in sociology with,

(16:11):
with some emphasis on the socialstatistics and political
science. And that was more like it.
It began as like a, a personal enrichment thing.
Like I was thinking about I, I want to learn things first and
I'll figure out like career stuff later.
But I've, I've been fortunate that it has definitely helped in

(16:34):
my activism because, you know, GI Joe learns half the battle
and having that, that, that baseof knowledge is really useful
when it comes to talking to people or, you know, being a
part of any kind of like educational process.

(16:57):
And yeah, it's, it's been good. It's been very helpful.
And I'm, I'm definitely glad that I've been, I've had the
opportunity to get an education because it's not always
something that's super easy to come by here.
And I'm good on you. It's a yeah, yeah, I think.
I think Moth was going to say something.
Oh, if y'all actually am I are y'all picking up any static on

(17:21):
my end or any TV noises or anything or car?
I just like I've got sirens and TV's and I'm a little I'm a
little bit distracted. I apologize, it's all.
Good. Yeah, you're all good on my end
too. OK, thank y'all.
I did want to back us up just a little bit because I think that

(17:42):
there is an important note that a lot of the time, you know,
queer folks all across the identity spectrum, we dive into
the idea of language at an earlier age and how having the
language to express ourselves would have helped us create
safety within ourselves. You know, very briefly, before

(18:05):
we tuned in to record this podcast, I was listening to
Supreme Court Justice Kitanji Brown talk about the LGBT books
and classrooms discussion, whichshe thoroughly, wholly whoa.
She just really just evisceratedthose mother fuckers in my

(18:27):
opinion. But because she was just like
you didn't bring any evidence though.
She was like I talk about it allbut you didn't put anything in
any records. She was like, so we just how can
we argue even for or against anything because the lunatics
that brought it up in the 1st place didn't bother to get

(18:47):
anything on record and get evidence before they took it to
the Supreme Court anyway. So I think that this is just
such a relevant moment because having, you know, a book where,
you know, a Prince fell in love with another Prince and both of
them got to be a king might havebeen really nice.
Like that just would have been helpful for me.

(19:07):
You know, that may have actuallyalleviated a lot of pain.
And having those books don't even have to be part of the
curriculum, but just available as so many other books are, was
really, I think that that's the important discussion that we're
getting into in the meat of the matter that we're getting into.
So y'all, let's talk about if you had had access to some of

(19:30):
that language at an earlier age.I I want to slow down and wind
our discussion into this broadersense.
Yeah, absolutely. I it, it absolutely would have
been helpful because yeah, like like I said, I I didn't
understand that being where was something I could like even be
in theory because the the words just weren't there.

(19:55):
I'm like, I always had these, these thoughts and these
feelings of like an incongruity between what I was and what I
thought I should be, but I but Icouldn't really put a name to
the face. And yeah, incongruity.
You couldn't put a name to the face.

(20:18):
And I I really wish I had that kind of like.
Education and growing up and I think it's great that there are
like places and environments where kids do have and like what
you were saying about the Supreme Court Justice the the

(20:41):
vagueness is the point. A lot of the times like these,
you know, Republican lawmakers, they Republican lawmakers and
Trump administration, they are deliberately making these things
vague and these executive ordersvague.
So that's the courts and the education systems and what have

(21:01):
you don't know what to do with them.
And I am it wasn't about LGBT stuff specifically, but I was
listening to an interview by somebody, a scientist who works
with the NIH, and they were talking about how they don't
know what kind of scientific papers they're allowed to write.
And they were specifically talking about it in regards to

(21:22):
race. Because, you know, they, they're
like, we don't know what is allowed.
Like, can we do studies about black Americans?
We don't even know? Are we even allowed to talk
about black Americans in the context of our research?
And so like this, this stuff that's going on in the

(21:44):
educational realm, it's meant tobreed confusion and it's meant
to create a chilling effect, especially when it comes to
younger people, because, you know, you, you, you target
people when they're young and they end up in a similar
situation that I was in where they don't know how to

(22:05):
understand themselves and they don't know how to deal with this
incongruity because there's there are no words, right?
It's very much like, I know it'skind of a cliche comparison, but
George Orwell's 1984 where, you know, Big Brother, what they did
was they would keep taking wordsout of the lexicon.

(22:28):
Yeah, the Caroline's got it. And they, you know, they kept
removing words from, you know, dictionaries and official
sources because when you don't have the language to express
yourself, then you just, you lack the concepts too.
Like those concepts aren't ingrained into us.
If you don't have the words for them, then you just simply don't
know. And that's, you know, that's

(22:48):
what they're trying to do to the, the, the kids with these,
you know, these laws and these orders.
You know, it's fascinating really quick that you brought
that up, because I, I think one of the interesting things with
how they, they talk about mind control wasn't that they were
like in your head when it was the language that they use, the
language that they removed. And we're seeing that allow a
lot now. It's like algorithmic censorship

(23:10):
through how like the algorithm takes a like pulls you from
hearing certain words and at a certain point you just you just
don't hear language anymore. In that way they do control us
through especially technologies.Very interesting.
Anyway, that was not. Yes, absolutely.
I'm, I'm sorry, Caroline, you'rea little hard to hear.
That was perfect. I was trying.

(23:47):
To today, I think our main transition that we want to make
is, AJ, you've got such a broad political knowledge overall, we
would really like to cover a fewdifferent topics, maybe even.
Yeah, if we can just even touch briefly on everything very

(24:09):
quickly. You know, from the efficacy of
voting to replacing capitalism through resistance, to finding a
safe and also daring ways to resist ice in our communities.
There's a lot that you have to share.
So let's go ahead and talk aboutyour broad knowledge before we
dive into the the more specific topics.

(24:32):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
The the efficacy of voting. Yeah.
So a, a, a lot can be said about, you know, voting in the
United States. We're, we're in a very weird and
unprecedented time as far as, you know, democracy and what it

(24:55):
means to be a Republic. Because it kind of feels like
we're not that at this point. And I, I don't fault anyone for
thinking that there's no point at all in voting.
And I think a lot of people werereally disillusioned with this
election cycle. Like, first we had, you know,

(25:17):
Joe Biden before he dropped out of the race and he received a
lot of very appropriate criticism about his policy
towards Israel, amongst other things.
And, you know, then he dropped out and we kind of we, we didn't

(25:39):
really get to say and who took his place.
That was, you know, Kamala Harris, which is kind of, you
know, stepped in without having any kind of like, primary
process and then she lost to Trump by a 6.1 million votes.
And in a lot of ways, it doesn'tseem like voting for the two

(26:04):
major parties matters because, like, realistically, both
parties represent the interests of capital.
They don't represent the interests of us individuals or
our communities. They represent the, the, you
know, the interests of the rich ruling class.
But with that said, I, I don't think we should like brush off

(26:31):
voting entirely. And I, I have a few reasons for
that. One, one thing specifically is
direct ballot initiatives. So a lot of states have, you
know, ballot initiatives where you can directly vote for
different policies on your localor state level.

(26:52):
And what's interesting with a lot of these ballot initiatives
is that a lot of progressive policies get passed in super
duper red states that went hard for Trump.
Because when you decouple on these progressive beliefs from
the Democratic Party, you'll actually find that these ideas

(27:14):
are really popular, in some cases even popular among
Republicans. And I think I have a couple of
examples of what I'm talking about in the state of Montana.
In the 2024 election, they passed CI 120 eights, which
enshrined abortion rights into their state constitution.

(27:37):
And this is Montana. It does not get much more red
than Montana. It went in favor of Trump by 20
points. And yet they, yeah, they still.
But. Yeah, we're going to say
something. I said no, but I mean, but the,
you know, the boats, the data doesn't lie.

(28:00):
That's the thing. It's just like people will say
what they're going to say. People will put whatever sign
they're going to put in their yard.
But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, like, and they're
in that voting booth, they're going to pull the lever.
That ultimately makes them feel more safe.
And that does win out at the end.

(28:21):
It's pathetic that we've arrivedat such a place where we have to
fight tooth and nail for literally every single thing and
voting rights have been so picked apart and so
disenfranchised by the right andby, you know, by sheer design
since the 1970s, Nineteen 80s. But you all, let's go ahead and

(28:44):
pick back up. Thank you for talking about some
of the broader aspects. Boyd Bowser, can we go into some
of the more granular questions that are in our current section?
I want to pick back up with yourvoice.
Yeah, of course. Do you, AJ, do you feel like
elections still still are viablefor real change in our country?

(29:12):
I know in, I know in a lot of ways, I feel like in the broader
aspect, there's a lot of hopelessness there.
A lot of people feel disillusioned with the two party
system. But do you feel like elections
can still help serve our communities and like, enact real
change? I'll say yes and no, which maybe

(29:38):
is not the most direct answer, but so when it comes to the, the
national scale, when we have like general elections, like
Democrat versus Republican, likeI said, both of these parties
serve the interests of capital. And the, the the Harris campaign

(30:01):
was very disappointing for a lotof people because it seemed like
maybe they were going to go any more like progressive populist
direction, which is what I was, you know, hoping for when they
chose Tim Walz to be, to be the the VP pick, But that that

(30:22):
didn't end up happening. Like she was doing, you know,
campaign tours with, what's yourname, Liz Cheney and talking
about how we have the most lethal military.
And she was very dodgy on the issue of Israel and Palestine.

(30:43):
And we know it's because, like she had, you know, interests
that were conflicted, conflicting with the progressive
base, right? So the the system is designed so
that business as usual, status quo politics always wins the

(31:05):
day, particularly in, you know, national elections.
But to scale it back, I would say when it comes to local
voting, local elections, I wouldsay that that very much has an
impact. And I, I brought up the, the
ballot initiatives because like a lot of those like statewide or

(31:27):
citywide elections and they, they can sometimes come down to
like a few 100 vote margins or afew thousand vote margins where
individuals voting on things andcanvassing for things very much
does matter. And a lot of times it's like
really big important policies. Like I, I live in California and

(31:51):
during this last election cycle,we had a Proposition 6, which
was a proposition to ban prison slavery.
And unfortunately it failed. Just, you know, I'm a big part
of the reason why I'm not confident about California
standing up to Trump, because we're not, we're not super duper

(32:11):
progressive bastion a lot of people think we are.
But yeah. Gavin Newsom just recently like
did that whole podcast with Charlie Kirk, I believe.
And so like I live in Californiatoo.
So people, people tend to misinterpret California as a
safe haven. It's safer than a lot of other
states. But in terms I kind of feel with

(32:33):
you on there on that disillusionment of like
California is not the states to rise up against Trump
necessarily, especially if we'regoing to try to if our
politicians are going to keep trying to play the other side.
Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I, I really wish that
proposition passed, but it wasn't all bad on a state by

(32:57):
state basis. So I like I brought up that
example with Montana. It was one of a few states that
enshrined abortion rights in their Constitution during that
election cycle. The others were Arizona,
Colorado, Maryland, Missouri, Nevada and New York.
And, you know, a couple of thoseare, you know, very red states
as well. And then Alaska banned anti

(33:21):
union captive audience meetings.So businesses in the state of
Alaska can't force their workersto, you know, listen to anti
union propaganda. And that's that's a state that
went to Trump by 13 points. And Alaska also expanded access
to paid sick leave as well as Missouri and Nebraska, which are

(33:44):
also very red states. So no, I'm listing these
examples to get the point acrossthat voting does have a role to
play even still, even still in this very, you know, hard right
political environment that we find ourselves in.
And it I always say that voting is 1 tool in a very large

(34:09):
toolbox. And that's that, that is still a
very much something that I believe.
Yeah, we've got to. We've got to be able to chew gum
and run at the same time. And it sucks.
It all sucks. It just sucks and it blows.
But also, I don't know, parts ofdemocracy should suck because,

(34:31):
you know, I know that everybody hates bureaucracy and blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah. But the checks and balances of
the paperwork and the bureaucracy or what keeps, oh, I
don't know, all of us fed. So yeah, we have to sort of
decide which democratic devils we want to dance with and which,

(34:52):
I don't know, create a long termpaper trail that we can build
the things like Social Security off of, you know, simple, simple
machinations of government. But boy, Bowser and AJ, both of
y'all, we're moving on into our next sections, but I wanted to
go ahead and check in with Caroline because we haven't
heard from her in a second and it's good to hear her voice.

(35:14):
We are doing just fine. Let's just a small note.
If anybody needs to take a breakreally fast to go pee or
anything, that would be great. We don't need to mention that
we're moving into the next sections.
We just kind of just start with the question.
We don't, we don't have to. We're moving into that.
We don't have to do that. We just go into the, you know,
it can feel it. Just begin with that first
question there in that section if that's OK, so.

(35:37):
If we I wouldn't mind going peeing actually, that'll be
great do. That OK, I will pause the.
Video with Gus. Just where we left off.
Just keep going. Don't even.
So darlings, they say that everysocialist has a capitalist
inside of them waiting to get out, which I think sounds like a

(35:58):
werewolf story. And I'm scared that I, I will
one day turn into a capitalist capitalism.
We're in late capitalism right now and we see the collision of
how capitalism is affecting politics and affecting all of
our rights, but it's also affecting all of our
communities. You know, the target boycotts

(36:19):
are a great example of ways thatpeople have voted quote, UN
quote with their wallets. So Arya, can you shed some light
on, you know, the whole like taking down and dismantling
capitalism feels very like a lotof pressure for the individual.
But how do we kind of make that more granular and break that

(36:40):
down into daily ways to resist capitalism?
And also, you know, I'm, I'm happy to talk about ways that we
pick our battles. You know, if you like Sunny
Delight, honey, you should buy Sunny Delight.
Like, you know, that should not determine whether or not your
resistance on the other side is good or not.
You know, we do have to pick ourbattles.

(37:02):
You know, if you like Converse and Sunny D, then you know
that's what you're going to pick.
And you'll do other good things with your wallet too.
Yeah, I, I, I couldn't agree more.
It's kind of a cliche to say that all consumption is
unethical under capitalism, but I mean, it is true.

(37:22):
And that's not to say that we should not make our own personal
efforts to consume more ethically because there are ways
to do harm reduction, right? And like what you were saying
about like, you know, the targetboycotts or boycotting, you
know, whatever business you see fit.
I think those are good things. But I think we can also

(37:43):
acknowledge like, if, if you're not engaging in a boycott of
like a specific business or a specific product, it doesn't
mean you're bad. It doesn't mean you can't be an
activist or anything. Because we we're all engaging in
varying levels of harm reduction.
And we can't, you know, unless we go like live on a mountaintop

(38:05):
and do subsistence farming, we're not going to get rid of
all elements of unethical consumption from our daily
lives. It's just, and capitalism is
literally everywhere. So yeah.
And what you were saying about how, like taking on capitalism,

(38:27):
like, feels so like big and kindof nebulous.
Like how how do we even do that as individuals with it being so
like ever present and a constantthing in our daily lives?
It's it's hard. It really is, but there are like

(38:48):
small scale things that we can do to, you know, more ethically
engage with our consumption. And I asked our our lovely close
Caroline to put some resources in the description.
There's one, there's a website that I I really like.

(39:08):
It's buynothingproject.org, and some of our listeners might be
familiar with Buy Nothing groups.
Like there are different groups in cities all over the country
where it's just people like, youknow, giving and taking free
things that other people don't need.

(39:31):
And by Nothing, project.org consolidated all of that so you
can look on a map to see the, you know, the by nothing groups
in your neighborhood, which I think is, you know, a fantastic
thing. Another thing that I like to do
is try to steer away from, you know, big online stores like

(39:55):
Amazon, wherever you can and go to like local brick and mortar
stores. Like every, every neighborhood
in every community has like local shops.
Like I like, I, I'm a bookworm. I like to collect books.
And so more so lately I've been like intentionally not buying

(40:15):
from Amazon and looking for like, yeah, exactly.
And looking for local shops nearme.
And there's actually a really good shop close to where I live.
That's. Immigrant owned, which is
fantastic and there are, you know, different, different local
places that have that kind of arrangement where it's like all

(40:37):
immigrant owned or all black-owned and you know it
places like that help to keep capital in your community.
It's for the betterment of your community as as opposed to going
into the pockets of Jeff Bezos. And, and a lot of these places
like they, they offer like online, you know, delivery

(41:01):
services. If you're an anti social weirdo
like me, I don't always like going to like physical places.
I want, I want it brought to my door.
But you know, Amazon, while theyare the big player, they're not
the only, you know, service thatdoes that.
Also, I briefly worked on a greenhouse, which was a

(41:24):
fantastic experience. And I learned to grow, you know,
grow different crops. I learned to grow the spices and
all of those things. I'm naturally meaning to set up
an herb garden on our on our patio because I miss, I miss my
old green thumb roots. Which brings me to another
website that's really good. It's communitygarden.org, which

(41:46):
can also connect you to like a local community gardens and also
gives a lot of like helpful tipsand instructions for how to
start community gardens, which Ithink is a fantastic thing.
And excuse me, hydrate or die straight.

(42:09):
Oh gosh. That's a good one.
That's a good one. Shoot, I need to go get myself
some water now. I guess you said that.
Yeah, don't die. Straight or die straight period.
Like that's a threat right there.
Put that on a sign. No, that's just like oof, that's
Yep, that fixed my depression. Oh.

(42:34):
My God, I got to tell myself that every day.
I know you said. Putting putting the capital back
into the community, you know, asif like you know, it sounds like
almost similar or if like putting the means of production
back into the like the the people you know that sounds.
Does that sound? That's where the jobs are that

(42:57):
everybody's looking for. I mean, being an entrepreneur,
you know, telling everybody to be an entrepreneur is certainly
not, you know, the solution for everybody.
Yeah, absolutely. And kind of by definition is
like, not everyone can be a capitalist because capitalism
relies on people working under you.

(43:20):
And so, yeah, but and one other thing on that topic before we
move on to the next thing is if you have the ability to do so or
the capacity to do so, join unions.
Unions are so important. They are the the, the bulwark
against, you know, corporations taking advantage of you and, you

(43:44):
know, taking what's right for the years.
And that applies to the workplace.
And that also applies to like ifyou're a tenant, if you're ready
renting places. They're also 10 unions.
And I have a resource for that too.
It's called abolitionnotes.org where they connect you to local

(44:04):
tenant unions, so highly recommend.
Yeah, I'm sorry. I I, I know that so many will
say that you can't change the system within the system, but
what are some historical and current examples that you know
of that have that give you hope about systematic change?

(44:28):
Yeah, absolutely. My favorite example is that of
the Black Panther Party. So the Black Panthers, they set
up a free school lunch program for the the children in their
communities. And this was, you know, extra
governmental. They weren't doing with any kind
of government support. They just, you know, got

(44:51):
together with the people from their communities, collected
food from people who were, you know, able to donate it and turn
it into a free school breakfast and lunch program.
And those programs became so popular that they got integrated
into some governments. Some governments started, you
know, taking notes from the Black Panther Party.

(45:14):
So it, it goes to show, like I, I like to tell people, don't let
anyone ever convince you that you do not matter, because
that's when you know the, the forces that be the, you know,
the MAGA folks, the, you know, the, the rich.
That's what they want us to feel.
They want us to feel disempowered.

(45:34):
They want us to feel like we can't make an impact on our
communities. But there are historical
examples that prove otherwise. And I think that's so important
to keep in mind. They use the tools of despair
and you know, we use the tools of creation and often communal
creation, and that's what sets apart the different movements, I

(45:58):
think, in a very fundamental way.
Absolutely. There's a lot of, there's a lot
of focus and I feel like not more than ever we should be
building up our communities. And I feel like especially now
with a lot of the attack on the communities that are happening,
like not just from like state violence, but also just like ICE
and the way that it's impacting a lot of these marginalized

(46:21):
communities, you know, like stuff that like directly impacts
people in our community. It's like how you were
mentioning like immigrant owned shops and the way the ICE is
coming after these after these immigrants, you know, for doing
things like being being important notes in their
community. I feel like now more than ever,

(46:42):
they've really intensified theirattacks because they want to
make everyone scared. But I feel like what would you
say would be some good communitybased actions we can take
against these sort of measures against like ice and state
violence to be able to protect not just each other but
ourselves? Yeah.

(47:03):
So I actually have a good example from some canvassing
work that I was doing yesterday.I, I won't get too specific, so
I don't dox myself too hard, butthere is a, a local
representative where I live who is cooperating with IS in their
deportations. And this person is, you know,

(47:27):
hardline MAGA Republican, hardline anti immigrant.
And so people from these from this community, myself included,
are getting together to do canvassing work and to
orchestrate a a town hall to gethim recalled.
And that kind of goes along withwhat I was saying about voting

(47:49):
is when it comes to the local level, individuals really can
make a change. So like someone in that group
made a good analogy. It's like an octopus and it's
tentacles. So like the the the Trump
administration is the octopus any and they have these tendrils

(48:11):
that are reaching out into localcommunities.
And, you know, we might not be able to like take the octopus on
head on, but in doing these likelocal, doing this local
activism, we can sever one of those tentacles and yeah.

(48:33):
And lost my train thought I apologize.
No, I mean, I think that you were on the good train.
I was. I was on that train with you.
That's a great way of looking atit and tremendously like, I hate
that I'm so suspicious of feeling comforted by anything
right now because I'm so high. I all know though, like the
hyper vigilance thing follows usall into our sleep.

(48:55):
But I think that that is such a wonderful way to put it.
And honestly, thank you very much for that perspective
because I will, I'll kind of lean on it for the next, for the
next era. Cut in one tentacle at a time.
Eventually there won't be no more tentacles and it will be
much easier to handle. That's just that's a good way to

(49:15):
look at it. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. The, you know, the people in
Trump's administration want to give this impression that they
are all powerful in a way that they're not like, you know, in a
lot of the like local court rulings and the work of local

(49:37):
activists has has borne fruit inkeeping, you know, immigrant
communities safer. We, we never want to fall into
the trap of thinking the things are hopeless because that only
emboldens and empowers, you know, the oppressor, right?
And sorry, quick aside, if we run a little bit over over the

(50:03):
mean soft time, I I'm fine with it because I'm realizing this is
a lot of information to pack into an hour and a half.
It's good resources though. It's, I mean, thank you very
much for being diligent about sharing everything and for
having some explanation to everything.
It's, it's, it's real important.And I feel like, I feel like
especially finding, providing these resources to people is

(50:28):
really the most important. Like I know I've been trying to
take a lot of safety measures and like acts with ICE in my
communities. You know, I'm Latino.
Whenever I go finish visit my family and friends, I have some
undocumented family members, I have some undocumented friends.
And I feel like one of the things that I've had to keep in
mind of now, especially with ICE, especially with a lot of

(50:49):
the aggressiveness in the way that ICE is trying to target a
lot of members of specifically the Latino community.
But the way that they're, you know, kind of taking all of
these Salvadorian men and just like shipping them off, you
know, to our basically the concentration camp, you know, in
El Salvador, it's been really scary.

(51:11):
And I feel like I, some of the safety measures I've been trying
to take is obviously, you know, just the base of like, I've
never seen or hear anything, youknow, playing, playing as if,
you know, and trying to get as little information as possible
because, you know, like, the second you get them in is when
they'll start really trying to like entrench themselves and

(51:34):
harm communities. But what would you say are some
other like strategies you'd recommend for vulnerable
communities that would really help people in being able to
combat some of this attacks fromice on their communities?
Yeah, at the at the most fundamental like base level, get
to know your neighbors is a really important thing.

(51:57):
Talk to your neighbors, get to know your neighbors.
Make sure that you were involvedin your local community in a way
that if something were to happento you or something were to
happen to a family member, they will take notice and, and you
know, and care if something happens.
And beyond that also and create an action plan with family

(52:19):
members to like if, if ice comesknocking on your door, you know,
make sure if, if you have the option, have people there who
can film it and, you know, speakon your behalf.
And there's also some legal protections that can be taken.

(52:42):
I'm not a lawyer, just to be clear, So none of what I say
here is legal advice, you know, confirm with people who are
actual professionals in in law. I'm just pulling information
that I found about law. But, and so one thing to keep in
mind is that if you have undocumented family members or

(53:04):
if you are someone who's undocumented, if you've been in
the United States for two years or more, you have a rights for
judicial review. Whereas if you're, if you've
been in the states for under 2 years, ICE can expedite your
deportation. So that's just something to to

(53:27):
to keep in mind is, yeah. Yikes, Yikes.
OK. Thank you for I have not heard
that piece of information. Yeah, at all.
Yeah, definitely the thing to have in mind even, you know, on,
on paper at least. I know it's, you know, things
are very, it's hard to know whatto do because, you know, ICE and

(53:50):
the Trump administration are flagrantly disobeying the law.
But it's it, it can still be empowering to know what the law
is in spite of it. One other thing that would be
good if you know somebody that'sundocumented, there are some
states in the country that allowpeople who came here
undocumented to receive driver'slicenses.

(54:14):
So if that's something that's available in your states, that's
something I would highly recommend doing.
And and if IS comes knocking on your door, make sure that they
have a warrant and make sure that that warrant is legitimate.

(54:34):
So there might be some instance where ice comes knocking on your
door. They might like wave a paper in
your face like we have warrants to, you know, come search.
Make sure that that warrant has the proper name on it.
Make sure it has the correct address on it and make sure it
is a judicial warrants because there is a difference between a

(54:55):
judicial warrants and an immigration warrants.
If they do not have a judicial warrants, you are not in most
cases, you are not legally obligated to let them search
your property and and obviously really, really important.

(55:15):
You have the right to remain silent.
You know, don't don't say anything to any agents of the
state unless you absolutely haveto unless you're like legally
obligated to do so. In most cases you are not remain
silent. Talk to a lawyer.
Yeah, I know. I know.

(55:35):
One of the big things, I'm also not going to say any specifics
because I don't want to dox my location either.
But I know one of the things I've really been trying to do
is, especially as somebody who'sSpanish speaking is a lot of
resources tend to be in English,which is so doing a lot of
translating work for those who may not be able to understand

(55:57):
the legal jargon in English is always really helpful.
Or also just in general, like a lot of people come from non
educated backgrounds who are immigrants just trying to come
here to make their life for themselves.
And so a lot of them just don't have the educational background
to be able to break down the thelegal jargon in general, even if
it's translated. So having resources to kind of

(56:17):
make that information more accessible has been something
I've been trying to put my time into because I noticed that
that's what's really helped a lot of the groundwork and being
able to get resources for a lot of the people, like in my
communities, but also family in front who are undocumented, get
the resources they need. Because like we were talking

(56:38):
about earlier, education is power.
And if you don't have the education, if you're not
informed that stuff is, you know, you, you put yourself in a
better position to be able to protect yourself and the people
around you. And I how would you say that?
I know you kind of mentioned it before with getting to know your
neighbors, but how do you feel like more solidarity can be
built, built between immigrants and like I guess we could say

(57:02):
non citizens and citizens, especially with all of
everything going on right now? No, that's a good question.
Going, going online, I would saylike building a community is on
like a, a national scale is super helpful.

(57:22):
In addition to just talking to you know, your, your local
community because you know there, there are so many people
experiencing, you know, the sametypes of things throughout the
country. People who have undocumented
family members, people who are undocumented, people who have
had to face off against ICE or what have you.

(57:45):
And just being able to hear their experiences and learn from
those experiences is really important.
So I would say like online forums, you know, is, is a good
way to, to do that, you know, with a caveat.
Be careful what you say in online spaces.
I, I'm, I'm a big believer in signal.

(58:07):
I use signal for everything, youknow, thing, you know, apps or
whatever with, you know, end to end encryption very good.
Just don't, don't accidentally invite a, a what is it a person
from the the media to come into your military planning like like

(58:32):
the Trump administration did? But I joke.
Yeah, building communities locally, talking to your
neighbors, building communities nationally, learning from people
from other parts of the country is what I would say.
Yeah, I feel like if I feel likewhenever we say building

(58:54):
community, I always, I always emphasize to people like
building community can look different in a lot can look
different in different situations.
You know, building community canbe making cookies, you know, for
your neighbors and getting to know your neighbors or being
like, hey, if you ever need something repaired around the
house, I have, you know, skills.Or if you need a piece of

(59:15):
furniture built or something painted, I feel like the
exchange of, you know, I feel like now with our finance, the
financial situation of the US, like that bartering system of
like, hey, I'll do this for you and you can do this for me.
Like I know like my partner, shedoes a lot of mechanic work.
So a lot of the time it's an exchange of like, let me use my

(59:36):
skills to help you and you use your skills to help me.
And that's just a great way of, like, bolstering community and
getting to know your fellow neighbors.
And I feel like in those ways, we can really encourage people
to come together and rely less on not just like capitalism to,

(59:57):
yeah, get the things that we need, but also, you know,
understand the types of people that live in your community and
that you can and understand the ways that you can give back to
those and be able to make a stand against, you know,
government oppression and just small ways like that.
No, come come to your neighbor'sdoor with a cake and say hello.

(01:00:20):
It can be something that I've had I've.
Had I've given cake, I have cakelast week to give out the
people, you know, would it be fair to say, AJ, would it be
fair to say that that these systems of of capitalism and
oppression lead to more crime considering the conditions that

(01:00:43):
were put through? And further upon that, you know,
the right often frames prime as innate, as certain types of
people. So how can we begin dismantling
these dangerous types of myths that are present?
Yeah, absolutely. So something that I enjoy

(01:01:05):
learning about, you know, and from from a sociological
perspective, is this thing called conflicts theory.
And what conflict theory is in, you know, basic terms is
societies are defined by the conflict between different
classes. And more often than not, that

(01:01:27):
is, you know, the rich ruling class and everybody else.
Like those are the 2 main camps.And then things get subdivided
into, you know, different groupings, immigrant versus non
immigrants, white versus black, gay versus straight, what have
you. And yeah, the the right wing

(01:01:49):
likes to talk about crime kind of like it's this inevitable
fact of human nature. Like there's just like, you
know, a violence to our nature or you know what have you.
And that is absolutely not true.If you give people the resources

(01:02:10):
they need to survive and thrive,you you either eliminate crime
or, you know, great greatly limited.
You know what happens? You create more artists all of a
sudden, because all of a sudden people are less worried about
the bottom and the middle part of the pyramid.

(01:02:31):
And they can get to the good human part of living, which is
the self actualization, which iswhy so many people are so lonely
and so miserable. It's because we most folks,
yeah. I can only speak for me, but I
will assume. I mean, everybody is having food
security issues all across America.
That bottom part of the pyramid.It's hard to dream of your

(01:02:53):
belly's growling, you know? And that's how, just like you
said earlier, that's how it getsyou.
That's how fascism gets you. It makes you hungry, and then it
makes you despair, and then you know.
Yep, and that's absolutely true.And there there was a study done

(01:03:15):
in 2018. It was conducted by the US
Department of Justice. It found that 74% of inmates who
were released from state prisonsin 2005 in the United States
were arrested again within threeyears.
So our recidivism rates, you know, is insanely high, but

(01:03:38):
it's, it's not like that everywhere else like back in the
the 80s under the Reagan administration, because, you
know, Reagan ruined everything because, you know, you know,
fuck Reagan. Yeah, fuck.
Reagan. He, his administration cut
funding for mental health programs and they cut funding

(01:04:01):
for prison education programs because, you know, before there
were a lot more programs where you can, you know, get your high
school diploma in prison or do college classes in prison, what
have you. And especially with that, you
know, that mental health factor,closing down mental health
institutions and stopping mentalhealth research.

(01:04:21):
And those people who, you know, have those mental health issues
were funneled into the prison system because now there was
nowhere for them to go, no good access to mental health
resources. And that, you know, contributed
to, you know, contributed to crime rates.

(01:04:42):
But people in prison who are part of post secondary education
programs are nearly 50% less likely to be incarcerated again
after release. And So what that statistic tells
us is that there is nothing in needs to criminality.

(01:05:03):
If you give people resources, they will use those resources to
better themselves and they will,you know, avoid the prison
industrial complex altogether. So yeah.
How do we begin to imagine a world society organized around
care rather than punishment? You know, and I and I feel like

(01:05:26):
that's like a really loaded question because it's like, you
know, there's so many other things that we have to work
through. But like, you know, what are
ways that we can begin in our own lives dismantling these ways
of thinking that that begin leading us into a future of care
over punishment? Yeah, in our personal lives, I

(01:05:50):
would say compassion is key because a lot of these like
broader institutions, they starton local levels in the mindsets
that a lot of people have towards each other.
And the the mindset that, you know, people are inherently

(01:06:11):
scary or inherently violence or,you know, if there are substance
abusers that that that is a moral failure or, you know,
things like that. Those are very prominent beliefs
and ideas in our culture. And the, you know, the most
fundamental way of dealing with that is having more compassion

(01:06:31):
and more empathy for, for other people.
I, I personally have people who have, you know, struggled with
addiction and alcoholism is a big thing in my family and a lot
of people will treat things likethat as a moral failure.

(01:06:51):
It's not a moral failure if you're, if, if you're struggling
with addiction, that is not a moral failure.
It is a failure of systems or communities to take care of each
other. And so I, I, I, that, that's
what I want. The, the biggest take away to be
if you see somebody that's struggling, if you know someone
who maybe has a criminal record or what have you, stop and try

(01:07:17):
and think compassionately about that because we start building
better systems when we have empathy for each other.
AJ How do you feel about the rise of AI technologies
impacting capitalism and crime and the systematic forces of

(01:07:41):
oppression? That's a big question.
Maybe, maybe we should save thatfor another episode.
Well, maybe we should. Well, you know, Aji really enjoy
having you here today and I really enjoyed having this space

(01:08:04):
to to talk about these really big issues.
You know, looking ahead, what are some of your hopes that that
we'll see within the next few months in regards to some change
in in our society at this time? Yeah, next few months and the

(01:08:26):
next few years are going to be hard.
Like I don't, I don't want to sugarcoat anything.
I think we're all kind of on thesame page there.
We're, we're all feeling the fear.
We're, we're, we're all feeling,you know, the, the pinch and the
anxiety and the reality is that's probably not going to go
anywhere anytime soon. But you know, the, the theme of

(01:08:53):
things I've been talking about up to this point is start local,
be compassionate and be empathetic and you know, we, we
can build something better. Absolutely.
How would you say that? Sorry, go ahead.
No, I was just going to ask, where can our listeners find

(01:09:13):
some of your work and stay involved with some of the things
that that you're doing? I'm sorry, can you repeat that?
Are are there any spaces, digitally or otherwise, that our
listeners can find more of your work from?

(01:09:33):
I would say my my medium page, Iguess I need to start writing on
it again. I've been kind of not not
keeping up with the like digitalstuff maybe as much as I should
be, but coming here into the trans narrative podcast, I I
would love to come back on and talk more and yeah, that's what

(01:10:03):
I'd say. Come here.
How? Would you, how would you like to
leave our listers? What would be the best way that
people can support each other? Now just, I know we went over a
lot of stuff, but what would be some key things to take away
that people can support each other with?
Yeah, mutual aid. Doing mutual aid and mutual aid

(01:10:26):
begins with, you know, compassion for each other and
knowing each other. And you know, like we we talked
to already that that can be something as simple as saying
hello to your neighbor. It can be something as simple as
standing next to your your immigrant family member, having
compassion for someone who's struggling with substances, All

(01:10:50):
of these different things. And the underpinning of all of
it is having an empathetic mindset with everyone that you
encounter. And, you know, by doing that,
we, we, we, we can resist the, you know, forces that seem to
divide us. I was going to ask if you had a

(01:11:11):
final thought that you wanted toleave us with, but I think that
that's a very beautiful. I mean, I'm not sure if we can
write something better than thatbecause that, I mean, that's the
radical that answers a lot of the questions that we've been
asking this entire podcast. Because I mean, what does, what
does a society built on care feel like at the end of the day?

(01:11:32):
And it is that is, it's a radical empathy.
It says, you know, guess what? People do bad things, but that
doesn't mean that we as a society have to also be
murderous and evil. Yeah.
We can radically just decide to be above that and, you know, do
the best that we can. And I think that that would lead
us to much better, much better decisions.

(01:11:54):
And I thank you for shedding so much light on that.
It's a hopeful message. Yeah, always be hopeful because
the, the, the, the oppressors want us to be hopeless because
that makes them stronger. So always be hopeful.
That gives them more smokescreen.
So yeah, the more hope and lightand, you know, staying tapped in

(01:12:19):
and involved. I mean, that's what everybody
here at this table is doing already.
So, you know, and it's easy to teach other people to do it.
It's not very hard. My.
Mother taught me. Taught me about hope and to to
keep that alive. And as as we begin to wrap up
today, my dear audience, if you would like to be involved and
have your voice heard on this show, please e-mail us at

(01:12:40):
[e-mail]'s
[e-mail], moth, moth.
Thank you for joining us today. I really have enjoyed and I love
having you on this program. Thank you for being with us here
again. Thank you all for having me
despite I apologize for like police sirens and TV's and

(01:13:01):
meowing cats and me knocking over all of my my I have a whole
collection of haunted mirrors that's right here in front of me
that I have continued to knock over.
And so, you know, thank you all for for having your mothy today.
And if you want to catch more ofme or hear my voice, you can
check me out at Saint Mothy Everywhere.

(01:13:22):
Listen to my new song Peter Parker.
That's right. That's right.
Boy Bowser, thank you. Thank you for for being here
with us today and and truly making it real to all of us.
Thank you, thank you. It's always a pleasure to be
here. I I definitely love being able
to be on the podcast and, you know, do do some work here.

(01:13:46):
But yeah, if you guys are ever looking to find me, you can find
me on Boy Bowser on all platforms.
I'm planning on releasing a couple new songs and an album
this year, so stay tuned in. I will be releasing a lot of
politically motivated music thisyear.
Let's collab my brother. Let's.
Collab. AJ Evergreen, thank you for

(01:14:10):
returning and being here with us.
Your presence is so is so wantedand so needed and so
appreciated. Thank you for being here with
us. Thank you.
Y'all are amazing. I'm so glad I got to come on
here. And yeah, for an hour and a half
it's been fantastic. Y'all are fantastic.
Yeah. Thank you for having me.

(01:14:32):
We love you very much and you are such a brilliant.
You are a you are a fucking brilliant.
I hope that you I hope you feel that in your bones and it's OK
to be like to be UN humble aboutit.
That's So what you have so much information in your head and
it's very, very valuable. So you keep your hope up, you
know, and if we can support you in any way, you reach out to any

(01:14:54):
of us, OK? I appreciate you.
Thank you. AJ, as we as we depart today,
what is your departing message you'd like to leave with us in
our audience for the week as we carry on?
I I I will be super duper dorky and quote Bill and Ted's
Excellent Adventure be be excellent to each other.