April 17, 2026 • 41 mins
Briana Gervat is a historian, photographer, and an author who recently published her memoir, There Will Come Soft Rains: A Journey Along the Western Front.
She is the first woman to walk the "Western Front Way" solo.
In 2022, just as the world began to open after the isolation of a global pandemic, Briana Gervat set out to walk the length of the Western Front. Beginning at the border that France shares with Switzerland she went into the wild in search of hope and in search of peace. For 500 miles, she climbed over the mountains of the Vosges, through the battle-scarred landscapes of Verdun, the Marne, and the Somme, all the way to the North Sea in Belgium. It was not only a journey of 36 days, but a journey through a period of history that we have learned nothing from, only how not to repeat it.
It is the story about what it means to walk through the remnants of history to feel its reverberations, to listen to its echoes, and with hope, to learn something along the way.he way you tell your story online can make all the difference.
Very commendable and throught-provoking.
Check out her website:
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Travel Addict Podcast.
(00:02):
Your host and fellow traveladdict, Malcolm Teesdale, is
here to take you into the heartof the world's most fascinating
destinations.
He talks with passionateglobetrotters and fearless
explorers who share their wildjourneys and cultural insights
from around the world.
Or sometimes he just chats byhimself, describing enriching
travel experiences.
(00:22):
So buckle up and let's hit theroad, because the world is
calling and we're answering.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
Hello everybody.
Teesdale here, the traveladdict.
Hope you're doing well today.
Beautiful day where I am, whichis nice, you know.
I'm looking at trees, thesquirrels are all running all
over them.
It's all good.
Today, folks, I have a specialguest who has done something
extraordinary, which I likestories like this.
(00:48):
Brianna Gavat.
Hopefully I've spelled uhpronounced her name wrong.
Brianna Govatt.
She's a historian, aphotographer, but she also does
these um escapades, like treksand stuff like that, to places
where not many people wouldthink of uh going.
So, Brianna, hello there.
SPEAKER_02 (01:07):
Hello, how are you?
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
I am very well, thank you.
And glad you could be um with metoday.
Um, Brianna's currently in NewYork, for how long we don't know
until she goes off on one of herescapades again.
Anyway, um we exchanged emails,everybody, quite some time ago.
So uh Brianna did something thatuh not many people would even
(01:30):
think about or know how to evenstart doing it, right?
So uh it's a good place tostart.
And uh what she did, and you cantell about the era you you did
this in.
Um, what you did, you were thefirst woman to walk what we call
the Western Front Way, right?
SPEAKER_02 (01:51):
Yes, yes, I was.
SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
That's amazing.
Now, I know people out therethinking, what on earth is the
Western Frontway?
Now, I only know a little bitabout it, but I know it's
something that stretches from uhborder France and Switzerland up
to the North Sea.
But tell us about why or howthis came about and why you made
the decision to do this.
SPEAKER_02 (02:13):
Uh well, it began.
Um I've I've always studiedhistory.
I'm an art historian.
So uh it was always, you know,and I have always uh the my
attraction to history has alwaysbeen wars and what comes after
wars and everything.
So I had traveled to otherplaces, you know, you do you go
to Europe and you make the solthe solemn voyage to a
concentration camp like Dachau,or or if you're in Poland, you
(02:36):
go to out, like you go to there.
So that was the precursor.
And then I would go to I went toCambodia and I've gone to
Rwanda.
So I've always been interestedin not only war, but what
happens after war.
And, you know, people thinkabout the Great War, World War
I, and they're like, oh my gosh,it happened so long ago.
What does it mean?
And you know, you turn on thenews and you're like, it's still
(02:56):
happening.
So I just I just I learned aboutthe Western Frontway, you know,
in the middle of the night andaround this time of year in
2022, and it just called to me.
And I was like, what do you meanyou can walk the Western Front?
What what do you mean you canwalk through France and go
through the major battlefieldsof the Great War and be in the
(03:17):
woods and be in France, like bein France?
And you know, that that wholeappeal was just something that
it put my two loves together,nature and history.
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
Yeah, how long how long is it, by the way?
SPEAKER_02 (03:28):
It's 500 miles.
Give or take.
SPEAKER_01 (03:31):
And where did when did you physically start this?
SPEAKER_02 (03:34):
This I physically began it on the border of France
and Switzerland.
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Oh, France and Switzerland, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (03:39):
Yeah, so it started at kilometer zero, they call it.
SPEAKER_01 (03:42):
Yes, I know.
Well, we're we'll we're still onthe imperial method, actually.
There's only I think there'sonly two two or three countries
in the world now that uh don'twork on the imperial system.
UK is both of them, but uh andbelieve it or not, you uh US is
one of them, and one of theother ones is Myanmar.
I mean, really, yeah, it's it'sit's really strange, but anyway,
(04:04):
but 500 miles, how long did ittake you, by the way?
SPEAKER_02 (04:07):
36 days.
SPEAKER_01 (04:09):
Well, that's about 14 miles a day, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (04:11):
Yeah, it's about 14 miles a day.
Yeah, yeah, it was uh you feltit after a while.
SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
I was gonna say because the terrain is not 100%
paved roads or flat, is it?
SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
No, no, no.
I started in the mountains, andthen like you know, you go you
would go up and down mountainsin the Vosges, um, and then you
get to Verdun, which is forest,so it's lots of hills, and then
you get to the canals of theSomme, and then into the
flatlands of Belgium.
So it was like, I'm glad Istarted where I did, because
then it got a little easier, butit then it got redundant.
So it was just it was a lot ofwalking, and there's a lot of
(04:44):
farms, a lot of fields, not alot of paved roads.
And uh yeah, it was it was itwas interesting because it was
just you got to traverse allthese different areas of a place
that you wouldn't necessarily goor want to go.
SPEAKER_01 (04:58):
What was its what was its significance in World
War I for me or for in general?
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
Uh for general, you know, how did it become
something I think that it wasjust it was like everything was
getting built up, especially inEurope.
You know, you had the industrialrevolution, you had all these
things changing, and you had aclass system that like didn't
want it to change, and then theywere fighting against it, and
then everybody else that wantedthat change.
And so, you know, you see ithappen in the world today, and
(05:25):
you see people wanting to rageagainst it, and it was just this
cataclysmic event that just kepton going and it just didn't end.
And it, you know, I feel like itshould have ended long before it
did.
SPEAKER_01 (05:37):
Yeah, exactly.
Now the road itself, I mean, itobviously wasn't just plain or
flat, but there were trenchesalong the way.
SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
Oh my gosh, Malcolm, there were so many trenches.
Like you you walk along and youknow, you see a bunker in the
distance, or you see barbedwire.
And then, you know, if like whenI went to the Shimanda Dem,
which was a major battle umalong the Marne, and it was just
like you just see trenches andyou and you just imagine people
digging themselves into thesethese structures that you that
(06:09):
they thought would protect them,and it just you know, then you
look at the maps.
The you you've seen obviouslythe arrow maps of the trenches,
yeah.
Sure.
And it looks like an ant colony,and it just it just it's crazy
because the you know, as much asnature has reclaimed a lot of
the places, it's still you stillsee it every like that's
amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
I was surprised they wouldn't be filled in by nature,
just rain, and all that stuffjust over time, just get filled
in, you know, all thrown over.
SPEAKER_02 (06:34):
But they're still unearthing so many things from
World War One, like you know,they still have unexploded
ordinance and they're stillfinding human remains and
everything, so it's it's reallyit's hectic because you think,
wow, you know, that war it wassupposed to be over in 1918, but
really it's continuing to go,you know.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
Yeah, and yeah, I I yeah, my grandfather was
involved in World War I.
My parents were involved withWorld War II because I I was
born and raised in Britain, sothey were uh there during that
time.
But since you did this, hasanyone else done it?
SPEAKER_02 (07:11):
No, there's been a lot of people.
I think I don't know if they'vewalked the length, but a lot of
people cycle it.
SPEAKER_01 (07:16):
Cycle it?
SPEAKER_02 (07:17):
Yeah, they cycle it.
So they go along, they go frombattlefields to battlefields on
the roads and everything, theygo through the mountains and
they go along the canals, sothey'll cycle it and then visit
all those major battlefields.
SPEAKER_01 (07:27):
So, what do they do?
Carry their bikes with them?
SPEAKER_02 (07:29):
Yeah, no, like they won't go in the mountains, like
they won't go on the trails thatI went on it.
SPEAKER_01 (07:33):
So they're oh okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:34):
Yeah, oh yeah, I could have like that would be
that would be pretty rugged ifsomeone had a mountain bike and
was like, I'm gonna do this, youknow.
Um no, so they go along, theylike it's like a they have
another way that parallels umthe paths that I took.
SPEAKER_01 (07:47):
Okay.
Yeah.
Oh, I just wondered, um, youknow, because um well, it's
obviously 40 miles a day ispretty long based on it is
almost like an obstacle course,is it?
SPEAKER_02 (08:02):
Yes, very much so.
And it felt there were timesthat you know you're tripping
over uh tree roots and rocks andyou know, rutted fields and
everything, and you're justwalking along and you're like,
okay, like I'm acting I'm in it,I'm actually doing this.
SPEAKER_01 (08:17):
Well, that's fantastic.
Now, I've got it always strikesme a question to ask about uh
people who hike in these uhremote locations.
And picture on your website,you've got your backpack, all
that.
Now, is that a tent?
Is that a tent in there?
SPEAKER_02 (08:33):
Oh, yeah, a tent, a sleeping bag.
SPEAKER_01 (08:36):
Okay.
I mean, I'm looking at the sizeof the backpack.
Tents today obviously can becompacted so tightly as sleeping
bags, right?
So but it doesn't look like abig backpack.
But I'm just saying, I mean,this stuff weighs well, and food
as well, right?
Or was it places to get food onthe way?
SPEAKER_02 (08:56):
There were some places, but I would carry, um, I
would carry some food, like Iwould just pick up if if there
was a a store or a market, Iwould pick up, you know, fruit
and vegetables and everything,and then I would carry sardines,
like I had a like emergencystash of sardines with me at all
times.
SPEAKER_01 (09:12):
Well, I mean, so you 36 days, so obviously the start
and the finish or something, butdid you ever stay in any place
that was a lodge instead of atent, or was it tent all the
time?
SPEAKER_02 (09:24):
Definitely.
No, I did a little half andhalf, so I would camp out for a
day or two and then hopefullycome across a place that I could
stay at.
It was very remote though, it'svery rural.
So you'd go to certain placesand um and then be like, oh,
good, there's a hotel here.
I'm going to stay here because Iwant to take a shower or have a
real meal.
You know, you're in France, youwant to eat good food.
SPEAKER_01 (09:44):
Oh, yeah, exactly.
I mean, I'm I'm you know, Europeis Europe, right?
It does rain occasionally there,of course.
SPEAKER_02 (09:52):
So yeah, it rains every day almost.
SPEAKER_01 (09:54):
Yeah, yeah, I know.
Depends what time of year didyou do it, by the way?
SPEAKER_02 (09:57):
I did it late August into September.
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
Okay, so obviously uh a decent time of the year.
Um, so you did that, and umobviously at the end of it, you
got a great sense of wonderfulsense of achievement uh but by
doing that.
Tell me during the trip 36 days,how did you feel um emotionally
(10:22):
about it all?
Uh, what came to your mind aboutthat was it historical things,
or you think about yourself, orwhat what things crossed your
mind?
Because you had a lot of time tothink about stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (10:33):
Oh, yeah, I had a lot of time, and I walked in
like silence.
I didn't have music with me, Iwasn't listening to you know
podcasts like yours or anythingelse like that.
So I was uh spent a lot of timejust with solitude and thinking,
and you know, you can't like asso as someone that studies
history, you know, I could havewallowed in history and like it
(10:53):
was heartbreaking.
There was not a day that myheart wasn't broken, there
wasn't a day that I didn'tthink, oh my gosh.
And the thing is, like you justsaid, your grandfather fought in
World War One and your grandyour parents fought in World War
II.
Like that there wasn't a daythat you weren't reminded that
there was a war and that the warand there was another war.
Like you you there you don'tcome across, like you walk the
Western Front and you go tocertain places and you learn
(11:15):
that you know what happenedduring the Nazi occupation of
France as well.
SPEAKER_01 (11:20):
Yeah.
So yeah, I know.
I my my parents never wanted totalk about the war.
SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (11:27):
Yeah, and I I found a lot of people from that area
they just did not want to bringthe subject up.
I tried to ask my father onceand he he just told me a little
bit.
I found out a bit more actuallyfrom people speaking on YouTube,
but uh obviously uh awful, awfultime in history.
So it's a it's a motion say yourheart was broken just thinking
about stuff, what may havehappened there and all that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:49):
Yes.
Yeah, no, it was really it wasreally heartbreaking because you
know, you it was a war ofattrition, it was a stalemate,
and they just kept on launchingartillery bombardments, they
kept on going at like you know,they there was just they were
literally in the trenches andand there was no ground, you
know, gained or anything elselike that.
So they're they're fighting avery um futile war, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (12:11):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (12:12):
And it wasn't, and I I like to look at it, you know,
in terms of it wasn't as clearcut as World War II.
Like you have democracy and andfreedom fighting under like
totalitarianism and not Nazismand fascism and everything.
So it wasn't it wasn't asclear-cut, it was more like egos
conflicting with one another,like, oh no, we want all the
(12:32):
power in the world, and no, wewant all the power in the world,
and there and they've draggedmillions, the whole world into a
conflict, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (12:40):
Yeah, I I know you look back in history, and even
for centuries, there's alwaysbeen conflicts and wars, even in
the Caribbean.
You'd be surprised what goes hasgone on there in history, but
you look at any area in theworld, there's always been times
of conflict.
Uh so I I tell you, but uh, youknow, that's that was uh times
(13:04):
of World War II, and uh I I knowI've uh you mentioned earlier
on, and uh I did this myselfactually because I had a
curiosity about the war days.
And I think you've been to thisplace as well because you
mentioned it when you went toCambodia.
Um I'm assuming you went to thekilling fields, right?
SPEAKER_02 (13:22):
I did, I did, and I went to Toslong, which was the
prison that they oldschoolhouse, yeah, and turned
into a prison.
SPEAKER_01 (13:29):
And talk about thought-provoking, I mind.
There's what a million and ahalf people slaughtered during
that period of time, you know,and it's just unbelievable.
Yeah, just seeing that.
And uh I know it's just outsideof Phnom Penh, but it's yeah, if
anyone goes there to Cambodia, agreat place to go to.
It's still developing, butpeople are really nice, but uh
definitely a place worth goingto to really get the the mind
(13:54):
churning over, right?
SPEAKER_02 (13:56):
No, definitely.
And then and then you know, I Icame back from Cambodia.
I don't know if I yeah, when Icame back, I had watched The
Killing Fields, which was such aprofound movie because have you
have you seen it?
Yes, yeah, and then one of myfavorite songs at the end of it,
Nessuno Dormo, and like youthink about it and you're like,
and that's I think that's thesame song that they played in um
Life is Beautiful as well.
SPEAKER_01 (14:16):
Yeah, I can't remember, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (14:19):
It's this beautiful, like poverty, it's this
beautiful song, and you justthink like, oh my gosh, like in
terms of not opera, but in termsof like no one sleeps.
That's the the way war is, it'sjust no one sleeps, it just it
just keeps on going.
SPEAKER_01 (14:31):
Yeah, it it does, and we never learn from it
actually.
And obviously, um Krakow, go toKrakow an hour away, is
Auschwitz and three camps thereas well.
I saw that was horrific.
And recently, a year ago, I wasin Stutthof, which is in Gdansk
Poland, and went to see thatplace as well.
It's interesting.
But um, yeah, I went to BridgeOver the River Choir area uh
(14:52):
many, many years ago, uh, mainlybecause of the movie, obviously.
But uh it's just seeing thesesites is uh is definitely
thought-provoking, isn't it?
You know.
SPEAKER_02 (15:01):
No, definitely, and especially like you know, being
where you're from, that youknow, going to a place like
Vietnam to to see those things,like is like, well, we weren't
as involved in the conflict asAmerica was, so it's just it's a
different, it's a differentperspective, you know.
It's a different.
But it's interesting.
I mean, like, I just I I'mfascinated by going to these
places because they just theyare thought-provoking.
(15:24):
They they they make you sit andthink and acknowledge the
darkest, the darkness that we weenter into when we go into war.
SPEAKER_01 (15:33):
Yeah, it it it does.
So I think everyone should tryand do it.
I think because it's a learningexperience and the realization
that uh why can people be socruel?
Right, and uh and uh it's justawful.
Um so it goes on today,obviously, uh during wars and
(15:57):
conflicts, as all these innocentpeople dying.
Um necessarily it's brutal, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (16:03):
Yeah, and it's like almost like people justify it
and say, well, they're wrong.
And it's like, who are you tosay what is wrong and what is
right?
You know, like it's just it's soconvoluted, it's it's so
nuanced, it's not, it's not,it's not black and white,
there's so much gray area.
SPEAKER_01 (16:19):
Uh yeah, there is, and the the quest for power and
land and resources and all thatstuff, but what about the
innocent lives that are lost?
It's anyway.
Well, that's another probablystory for another time, but it's
it's it's brutal.
I I I've got got on the um thequest to keep learning more and
more about the rest of theworld.
SPEAKER_02 (16:40):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (16:41):
Pass those stories on, but uh I've got to do it,
you know.
Um now you wrote you justfinished a book, There Will Come
Soft Rains, right?
SPEAKER_02 (16:50):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
And is that about your area you went to?
SPEAKER_02 (16:54):
Yeah, no, it's it's it's it's it's the it's a
travel, it's like a travelmemoir meets not a history book
because there's so manybeautiful writers, be beautiful
historians and incredible umresearchers that have really
committed so much of their timeand energy and everything into
explaining World War One, thethe what happened beforehand,
(17:15):
what happened during and whathappened after and stuff like
that.
So it's more like my personalreflection on the war and what
it means today, and also myexperiences along the way,
because as devastating as thewar was, I also had such a
beautiful, profound experiencewalking along the Western Front.
SPEAKER_01 (17:34):
Yeah, that's it.
Uh, I mean, that that's verytrue.
And learning experience, butfulfilling at the same time.
SPEAKER_02 (17:41):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (17:42):
Yeah, and you got stories to tell, which is uh
which is fantastic.
So obviously, you do somethingthat most people wouldn't even
think about it, right?
SPEAKER_02 (17:51):
No, a lot of people, you know, it's so funny because
when I said like I go to theWestern Front, they're like, Oh,
did you go to the Maginot line?
I'm like, I'm like, no, theMaginot line was developed after
World War One because they werelike, we can stop Germany from
coming in there.
And I'm like, but they wentthrough Belgium.
So what do you what do you meanthat you're gonna be able to
stop them again, you know?
So it's it's interesting becausea lot of people they have like
(18:14):
it's almost like um the war isfar away for them.
Like the Great War is far away.
It's something that happened,but it wasn't as present and
prevalent as World War II or inAmerica, the Revolutionary War
and the Civil War andeverything.
It's like peep that's whatpeople come to the forefront of
their minds when they think ofconflict.
SPEAKER_01 (18:33):
Yeah, exactly.
I know.
Oh well, hopefully uh one willlearn one day that uh well be
nice to go over the period oftime where there's every the
world is at peace.
You know, when I do my my talks,um I do uh talks on cruise
lines, I I talk about adventuretravel.
(18:54):
The first slide on that is thatwe have to make an assumption
that the world is problem-freeand peaceful right now, before I
bring up some suggestions ofplaces to go to.
So, and of course, peoplegiggle.
Yeah, I I get that, but um, butwhat um you also mentioned a bit
earlier, Rwanda as well.
SPEAKER_02 (19:14):
Yes, yes.
I did my thesis, my master'sthesis at from graduate school
on the Rwanda genocide.
Um, because I was like studying,I'm I started at art history,
and I was like, what I was liketrying to figure out what I
really wanted to write about andwhat was was important.
And that was at the time when Iwas really falling in love with
photography.
Like in my early, in my late 20sin my 20s and like in my early
(19:36):
30s, I was like, no, words areimportant.
And then you see these imagesand you're like, wow, they're
they they they give you pause,they make you stop and think.
Yeah, and so I came across allthese incredible war
photographers, all these peoplethat traveled all these
distances to chronicle thesewars.
And uh what struck me was Rwandaand and how you know it happened
(20:02):
the genocide happened for ahundred days, and then
afterwards, like you know,images would come through, but
you know, nobody nobody likereally said anything.
Like we knew it happened, but itwasn't like the scale at which
it happened was justunbelievably unfathomable, you
know.
And then I came across this umthis photograph, this artist, uh
Alfredo Yar, he's a Chileanartist, and he grew up during uh
(20:25):
Pinochet's dictatorship.
SPEAKER_01 (20:27):
Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:28):
So he always like he looked at the world through the
lens of like he he grew up in inChile and then he came to
America and he just wanted toshow the world, he wanted to put
a mirror up to the world.
SPEAKER_01 (20:41):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
And so I I couldn't I I always and I'm I'm sure
you're exactly the same way.
I couldn't write about somethingor think so deeply about
something without traveling tothat place to understand it
more.
SPEAKER_01 (20:54):
Exactly.
Yeah, I I know what you mean.
You you urge to go there to seereally what it uh was like or
what is like.
Yes, I get that.
Uh with with Rwanda, when whatyear were you there, by the way?
Just curious.
SPEAKER_02 (21:10):
I was there in 2014, so it was the 20th annivers
anniversary.
I hate that that's a terribleword to say.
It was uh it was a year of itmarked 20 years since the
genocide.
SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
Yeah, the hoot is in two what is it?
SPEAKER_02 (21:24):
The hoot is in the yeah, the hoot is in two, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:27):
Yeah, that's that's right.
But hasn't Kigali, the capital,just developed quite well now?
SPEAKER_02 (21:32):
Oh gosh, it's it's a flamboyant city.
Yeah, yeah, it's it's abeautiful, it's a flourishing
city, and I I love it beingthere because you know, when you
go to African nations, you youyou have this idea of what you
know, people always put thewhole continent as one country
or something, you know.
I don't know if they do it inthe UK, but they do it in
America.
They're like, oh, Africa.
And I'm like, there's 54countries there.
(21:53):
Which one are you talking about?
You know?
Um, but you know, you go thereand you, you know, people are
speaking French, they'respeaking Kinyarwanda, they're
speaking um Koza, they'respeaking all these other
languages that or and dialectsthat you're just like, oh my
god, this is so cosmopolitan,you know?
SPEAKER_01 (22:11):
Yep, it is.
Yeah, and that obviously appliesto most of Africa.
Actually, my father wasstationed in um Zimbabwe now,
but it was then Rhodesia.
SPEAKER_02 (22:22):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (22:22):
He was stationed there for a period of time.
SPEAKER_02 (22:24):
Oh wow, what was he doing?
SPEAKER_01 (22:26):
Uh well, it was in the Air Force.
And again, he didn't tell memuch about it, but protecting
what was sort of a Britishterritory.
Um, but he caught malaria thereas well in the whole scheme of
things.
But anyway, yeah, he was therefor a while.
So I made a point in goingthere.
Uh obviously he's close toVictoria Falls, so I went there
to see that.
(22:46):
Uh part of Mother Nature's umcreation.
But uh yeah, that wasfascinating.
And um actually I'll be back inAfrica next February.
SPEAKER_02 (22:56):
Oh nice, where are you going?
SPEAKER_01 (22:57):
I'm I'm going to um I'm flying into Cape Town.
SPEAKER_02 (23:00):
Oh nice.
SPEAKER_01 (23:00):
And then traveling up the west coast, uh, all the
way up the west coast um to uhuh Lisbon.
But I was in uh just three yearsago.
Oh actually three years ago, ifyou haven't been to this place,
I talked about this to someonethe other day, Namibia.
SPEAKER_02 (23:18):
No, I want to go to Namibia so desperately.
Like I think Namibia would be, Ithink that's like one of my next
trips, like Namibia, Botswana.
I've been to South Africa, but Ihave never been north of there
except you know, north in likeMorocco and Rwanda.
SPEAKER_01 (23:32):
Oh, okay, yeah.
South Africa's cool.
No, I went to I had to gothrough Johannesburg to get to
Namibia.
I stayed in Windhock, thecapital, for one night before
driving five hours into theworld's oldest desert.
SPEAKER_02 (23:43):
Oh, cool.
SPEAKER_01 (23:44):
Yeah.
Um, and it's 55 million yearsold that place is, but that's
where Dead Vlay is as well.
SPEAKER_02 (23:50):
But I that's where all those trees are, like the
trees and that's right, yeah,they're right.
SPEAKER_01 (23:54):
They're 900 years old, but they won't decompose
because there's zero water.
And um, I climbed the well, youdo this when you get you're you
can climb the world's highestsand dune.
And uh but it's the scenery isunbelievable, Brianna.
So stay in a lodge there and uhlike I did for a week or so, and
just scenery is spectacular andthe sunset's great country,
(24:17):
unbelievable scenery.
SPEAKER_02 (24:19):
Anyway, I've heard so many I've heard nothing but
good things.
It's it's definitely there.
I mean, you know, you'vetraveled your whole life.
There's always something to addto the list.
SPEAKER_01 (24:28):
Yeah, and always well, there's all be there's
always going to be somewherethat you have to go.
This book it list term thatpeople talk about, overuse, but
uh yeah, we've we've all gotone, but mine's getting longer,
it should be getting shorter theolder I get, but it's not, you
know.
SPEAKER_02 (24:45):
Next on your list.
SPEAKER_01 (24:47):
So I don't know.
It's but but anyway, that thatthat's worth uh a visit.
But uh I'm stopping off.
I um I do um speaking on umcruise ships and I'm on one
that's going from Cape Town.
It stops at Namibia a couple ofplaces, then goes up through uh
Senegal, Ghana, uh Sartome, anduh several other countries en
route.
So uh so I get to speak quite abit.
SPEAKER_02 (25:09):
That sounds awesome.
That sounds like and then youwind up in Lisbon, which is
Portugal's the food is so good.
SPEAKER_01 (25:16):
Uh yeah.
You mentioned earlier on aboutthe uh the language there, and
um I'm I'm working on somethingwhen I when I get chats out,
I'll be done by the time is uhhow to speak trilingual and how
to speak uh English, Americanand African.
Yes, different English versionsthat do the translation because
uh it's interesting.
Learning a white country.
SPEAKER_02 (25:37):
And then you go to those places and you're like,
you know, you listen to peoplethat um speak English fluently
and they're like, oh, I'm sorry,my English is not good.
And then you're like, and thenyou you pick up on, okay, well,
did you learn British English?
Did you learn American English?
Did you learn, you know, whichwhich English did you learn?
Or did you like, you know,because there's a lot of people
that will watch movies and learnand learn English that way, or
you know, they have they go to agood school where they learn it,
(25:58):
but it's just like it's I'm soI'm such in so much admiration
for people that speak so manylanguages and have you know
control over them.
SPEAKER_01 (26:08):
Yeah, I I I know and people people ask me because I
traveled, they said, well, howmany languages do you speak,
Malcolm?
I said five.
And and they said, that'sfantastic.
Well, what are they?
So I tell them English,American, Australian, and the
language of New Zealand.
SPEAKER_02 (26:25):
Not Canadian, you're not gonna put the whole you're
not gonna put the wholeCommonwealth in there.
SPEAKER_01 (26:29):
Yeah, I know.
I'm working on another onemyself, but anyway, but Muda's
got their own language as well.
But anyway, that's it's just thelingo, isn't it?
And Wales.
There we go.
SPEAKER_02 (26:38):
Oh yes.
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
Yeah, that that's gonna be the hardest language in
the world to learn.
SPEAKER_02 (26:43):
Welsh?
SPEAKER_01 (26:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:44):
I didn't I've not I've not even tried.
Like honestly, like I I for me,uh, you know, you go because I
haven't been to Wales yet, andI've always wanted to go, but
it's like every time I go overthere, I'm like, no, they want
to go, you know, want to go tolike Poland and I want to go to
Eastern Europe and I want to goto Greece and all that other
stuff.
So it's just it's just you haveall these, you know, you like
again, your bucket list getslonger, and it's like, okay,
(27:07):
well where where where to next?
SPEAKER_01 (27:11):
Yeah, well, I I know.
Um well talking that that's aquestion for you.
Where next for you?
SPEAKER_02 (27:16):
I think I'm going to Paris next month.
SPEAKER_01 (27:19):
Paris.
SPEAKER_02 (27:19):
Yes.
Now after that, I've really beensitting tight with um getting
this book out there.
Like I put I spent three yearswriting the book.
So it only took me 36 days towalk the Western Front, but it
took me three years to write thebook, and I dedicated so much
time and so much energy and somuch effort into it that I want
to see where it takes me, youknow.
Like I want to, I want to openup the doors that I dream for
(27:41):
it.
SPEAKER_01 (27:41):
Yeah.
So I should be all right.
I've I've heard that um Paris isgetting a bit, I don't say
overrun, but very popular withtourists now, right?
Yeah, it could be a bit crowded.
So I I think um if I if I everwent there again, I'd probably
stay off the beaten path alittle bit and just stay not in.
SPEAKER_02 (28:00):
I'm going with my aunt.
Like I'm not I'm going as atrip, a family trip.
So I'm not going like if if Ihad a choice, I would not choose
Paris.
No offense to my aunt.
I love my aunt very, very much,but it wouldn't be my first
choice.
Like if I were to I would flyinto Paris and then I would go
and spend more time in Brittanyand Normandy and then even like
the Loire and everything.
(28:21):
Like I'd I'd want to go, I'dwant to get a car and just drive
everywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
My my sister in England, her andher husband, they sometimes
drive over to France, get theferry over, take the car and
drive around France.
Uh and uh there's it's it'sgreat drive, easy driving there.
Roads are in great conditions.
SPEAKER_02 (28:41):
It's a pleasure to drive in France.
Like, I mean it's a pleasure towalk in France, but it's a
pleasure to drive in France toobecause they all abide by, you
know, like the left lane is apassing lane, and then you move
over and just keep on drivinglike this.
Like, you know, it's a it's ait's nice, but you know, there
were times when I was walking, Iwas like, I would love to have a
car right now.
SPEAKER_01 (29:01):
Well, good for you.
I mean, how long will you goaway at any one time?
Uh depends.
SPEAKER_02 (29:07):
Usually, um usually about like my shortest trip
would be maybe a week, but yeah,not not not long at all, but
those are short trips.
Those are those are you knowvisiting places or whatever.
But I like to go for months at atime.
Like if I'm gonna go away, Iwant to go away for at least two
months.
SPEAKER_01 (29:25):
Yeah, okay.
That that that's that's right.
So if you were going to well,Paris is um obviously a major
city.
Got a lot of stuff to see there,but on a more adventurous side,
uh, not trekking necessarily,but um on the more adventurous
side, what have you got youryour sights set on?
Anything like that?
SPEAKER_02 (29:44):
Yes, no, I definitely, I definitely have I
have a big trip planned.
I have two big trips planned,but I have to like they're in
the very very first stages.
Um, and they both revolve aroundWorld War I and even World War
II.
So I want to go spend time inEastern Europe.
I am a child of the Cold War.
I was born in 1980.
So, like, you know, we were wewere the hopeful generation that
(30:06):
it was like, no, the war isgonna end.
We're not gonna nuke each other.
Uh and then and then the wallwill fall down.
So it was like it, I I wouldlove to uh spend time along the
Berlin Wall from like Finland toGreece.
SPEAKER_01 (30:20):
There you go.
It's a great city, actually.
Stay in the center, and uh youcan actually walk toward the
sites the Brandenburg Gate, seethe some remnants of the Berlin
Wall, the Holocaust Museum, andall that.
SPEAKER_02 (30:32):
So I've been there, I've been there, I was there
last year.
I was there a space.
SPEAKER_01 (30:36):
Oh, okay.
So you know about it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:38):
And I was on my way to uh like I didn't want to like
it.
Like I loved Berlin, I thoughtit was such a cool city.
Yeah, but I was on my way toPoland.
I'm like, I can't like Germany.
I can't like Germany because I'mPolish and it's unfair to my
heritage.
SPEAKER_01 (30:54):
Yeah, I I get it.
I get it.
All right.
Well, I I tell you one placethat um maybe you wouldn't go
there now, but I I was there atthe end of 2021.
It's Kiev in the Ukraine.
Yes, it's um beautiful, justspectacular architecture, lovely
people, and that's a great senseof humor those people had.
(31:16):
But yeah, that that it was sortof uh there was a couple of uh
demonstrations there, but youjust know something was brewing
there.
But I got to see some of the thewonderful sites there, and uh
they take pride in theirindependence, obviously, since
1991.
But uh anyway, it was uh quitesimple in that experience, but
anyway, it's I know I want to Iwant to go over, I want to spend
(31:36):
more time there.
SPEAKER_02 (31:36):
Really, I think that you know, you look at World War
I and you look at um whathappened with the Treaty of
Versailles and you look at howit benefited a lot of the
Western European nations andAmerica, but then you look at
the other side of it and see thedevastation that it caused
throughout all of EasternEurope, and then you're like,
well, that makes sense then.
Like, you know, like after WorldWar, you know, the with World
(31:57):
War I, it was like, okay, itended in 1918.
It's like, but the Germans wentto war against the Polish, and
then the Polish went to waragainst Russia, and then they
were all fighting in theAustro-Hungarian, like it was it
just it just it ne it just neverended.
It was just like a an avalanche,it was a snowball effect into
the next war, and it was justit's just so there's such rich
(32:18):
history, and I think we kind oflike disregard it as as
something that was, you know,you have beautiful composers,
beautiful food, beautifulcultures, you know, that went
that have been through it too.
SPEAKER_01 (32:29):
Yeah, I I know, and that's this stuff spread so
much.
I was in Scandinavia.
Uh, I've been to Scandinavia acouple of times, up in the
Nordics, and to be surprised,but people don't know this.
Uh, the World War II was prettyprominent in that area as well.
Yeah, I know it's it's amazing,and they've still got uh KGB
museum up there, and it'samazing to know what to learn
(32:51):
what actually happened duringthat area during the wartime.
Um that's all educational.
Now, you I'm looking at yourwebsite here, Brianna, and
you've got another hid hiddentalent as well.
So yeah, I I think you you writeit poetry.
SPEAKER_02 (33:07):
Yeah, I write poetry.
SPEAKER_01 (33:08):
I just read a couple of your things, and it's got
poem and photographs.
So I thought that's that'sgreat, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (33:14):
Thank you, thank you.
It's something that um I don'tknow.
I just I I like I I I don't liketo live a superficial life, so I
like to feel things deeply.
So if I go out in nature and Iexperience it, what better way
to share it than takingphotographs and then reflecting
on them through words, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (33:30):
Yeah, I I that's that's a good way to feel, yeah.
Um I enjoy I enjoy nature, likestaying in places that are off
the beam path, you know.
I'll be in Bali later on thisyear.
I'm just gonna uh before I getunder the cruise ship gig, I'm
gonna just stay in the jungle inBali for a few days.
SPEAKER_02 (33:47):
Oh, that sounds like a wonderful time.
That sounds like you know I feellike I I need one of those rest
and reset trips after aftersitting in front of my computer
all the time, sending out emailsand connecting with people like
you and everything.
And it's just like I just wantto decompress and just be, you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (34:03):
Exactly.
You gotta do it uh while youcan.
Now, as far as uh if anyonereaching out to you, uh I'm
looking at your website here.
Um your website is the PeregrinePilgrim, right?
SPEAKER_02 (34:17):
Yes, it is, but you can look up BriannaGervat.com
and it'll lead you there anyway.
SPEAKER_01 (34:22):
Okay, got it.
Yeah, okay, he's got it thereand on your website.
I have looked at everything, butit's a list of your books and uh
poems, photographs, and aboutyou and good picture of you
hiking there along the westernfront.
SPEAKER_02 (34:35):
Not in a trench, but you're you're there hiking and
uh You know it's so funnybecause like you know what, you
see you go on social media andall these people like take
selfies and stuff like that.
And I I I don't know.
I guess the way uh you and Itravel in the way, like the way
I travel, I um I I feel like I'mlike desecrating the memory of
places.
If I'm like taking a selfie infront of a trench or you know
what I mean?
It just oh yeah, it feels soinauthentic and it feels so you
(35:00):
know, and I'm not a selfieperson anyway.
Like I like I like videos, Ilike being in person and
everything else like that.
And it just um yeah, like when Iwent to the trenches, I like
just sat with them, you know.
You walk through these trenchesand you're just like they really
dug.
And then even if the even if umsomething like a a shell
exploded in the trench, theystill rebuilt it or refortified
(35:22):
it with like wood and sandbagsand concrete if they could.
SPEAKER_01 (35:27):
I tell you, well, with with trekking, are you I
don't know you're going to visitplaces.
Are you you still planning oneday to do another lengthy trek,
maybe?
SPEAKER_02 (35:36):
Oh, every day.
Like I go walk in the woodsevery day.
So it's okay, yeah.
So really, really going on alonger trek is just being able
to do it the days on end.
But like I said, I don't want tojust go to Berlin for the Berlin
Wall.
Like I would love, love, love togo from Finland to Greece and
walk the length of the BerlinWall.
SPEAKER_01 (35:55):
Get out.
How long will that take?
SPEAKER_02 (35:58):
It's like 2100 kilometers, so or 2,000 miles.
Maybe it's more, maybe it's morethan 21.
Yeah, it's like 2,000 miles.
So it would take a long time.
SPEAKER_01 (36:07):
We better go at the right time.
It gets a bit chilly up there.
SPEAKER_02 (36:10):
Well, yeah, no, I was thinking, I'm like, maybe I
can get like a dog sled forFinland, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
Oh, okay.
I I did the Himalayas a fewyears ago.
I always, when I was growing up,I it came into my brain cells.
I told my parents I'll trick theHimalayas one day and they sort
of laughing, but I did do iteventually.
Um, but uh there you go.
I tell you the interesting thingabout that is obviously being
Himalayas spectacular uh sceneryand all that, is all these um
mountain communities of peoplewho live there and just mingling
(36:41):
with these people, learning howthey live from day to day.
SPEAKER_02 (36:45):
They do it, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:46):
It's amazing.
And I it's very educational.
They do it, they live that waybecause they want to.
SPEAKER_02 (36:51):
Yeah, and and it's cold and they and they dress
appropriately or they make itthrough a winter that lasts
eight months, and it just I knowamazing.
SPEAKER_01 (36:59):
Yeah, I tell you.
I mean, there's that that thereis so much in the world to
discover and learn about peopleand the way they live, and they
live that way primarily becausethey want to.
Some people don't have a choiceactually in some places, but but
anyway, uh, it's it's one willwell uh keep on traveling.
So, any anything do you want tosay to people out there about
(37:20):
your website or if you do youwant people to contact you for a
chit chat or anything or tellthem about it?
SPEAKER_02 (37:25):
Yeah, no, I would love, I would love it for the
people.
I love when reaching out topeople.
Like I speak to this woman,Domenica.
Uh she's she's from Germany andshe's a lovely young woman, and
she wound up coming across mybook, and now we're like
developing a friendship.
And it's just it's just reallynice to, you know, and even
talking to you and everything,it's so nice to connect with
like-minded people or peoplethat care deeply about the world
(37:46):
that we live in and want tounderstand it and want to see
it.
So yeah, like I love, I lovewhen people reach out and I
love, you know, if they if theyread my book or want to get my
book, that's like an addedbonus.
But you know, I'm not here forjust that, I'm here for human
connection, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (38:01):
Yeah, exactly.
You know what?
You you you write a book, and uhas my mother said to me many,
many years ago, she said,Malcolm, just write a book.
I said, Why?
She said, so you can read itlater on in life, and that's
exactly what I do.
Yeah, I don't do any marketing.
I mean, uh, you know, when I'mold and decrepit, uh, I'll pick
(38:23):
up one one of my books and readit and say, Who the hell is this
guy?
You know, I just just saying Idon't I hope I'm uh set
knowledgeable enough to to lookback and uh smile a little, you
know.
So that's good.
You definitely I encourageanyone to write a book.
It's like keeping photographsand videos around and souvenirs.
Write a book as well.
(38:43):
That's a great thing to do.
SPEAKER_02 (38:45):
Exactly.
And like I look at it like, youknow, I I did spend all that
time, and I'm sure like you, youas a writer, I mean, it's not
writing is not this easyendeavor.
It's not like, oh, this justflows.
I could just sit down and writea book, and in three weeks, I'm
like, we're not Tolstoy, we'renot like writing like, you know,
but it's it's you know, youwrite you write these books, and
(39:06):
then I I always think about itas like just a diary that you
don't mind somebody else pickingup.
SPEAKER_01 (39:11):
Yeah, exactly.
So it's it's it's it's allright.
We we just do it and uh yeah,I've got some books I wrote up
on the shelf that I'm I I lookat the title of it, I thought I
can't even remember what I wrotein there now.
Maybe I'll pick it up one day,you know.
SPEAKER_02 (39:26):
Do you feel that way with writing too?
Like I feel like sometimes likeI look back at like some of the
books that I've written or someof the words that I've written,
I'm like, all right, am I this?
I'm am I the same writer?
Do I feel the same way?
Or like that you finish it andit's not yours anymore.
So you like you might look backat it like years from now.
But sometimes I I finish a bookand I'm like, okay, what's next?
(39:46):
You know, it's not just youdon't just linger on that book.
You're just like, okay, whatelse can I write about?
What else can I share?
What else can I experience to beable to write something more?
SPEAKER_01 (39:56):
Yeah, you know, but you know, just do it while when
you can, when you feel like it,when you're in the mood and all
that.
So it's it's it's all good.
So yeah, we'll keep we'll keeptraveling.
But take keep in touch, uh,Brianna.
I'd like to know about yourescapades.
SPEAKER_02 (40:10):
Yes, I want to know.
I want to I want to know aboutyour trip to all those African
nations and all of that.
SPEAKER_01 (40:15):
Yeah, that'd be interesting.
Uh I don't know what to expectuh when I'm down there, but uh
who the heck knows?
But I'm looking forward to it,and it's an area that world,
especially Western Africa, thatI've never, apart from Namibia,
been to before.
So I'm looking forward to that.
But anyway, safe travels to you.
SPEAKER_02 (40:32):
Thank you very much.
And uh safe travels to you.
SPEAKER_01 (40:34):
And uh enjoy enjoy life.
You're enjoying it, which isgreat.
So what you've done in life isvery commendable.
SPEAKER_02 (40:41):
Thank you.
As as are you.
SPEAKER_01 (40:44):
All right.
Well, take care of yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (40:47):
Bye.
I'll see you later, Ralphum.
SPEAKER_01 (40:48):
See ya, bye-bye.
SPEAKER_02 (40:50):
Bye.
SPEAKER_01 (40:51):
Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_02 (40:51):
Bye.
SPEAKER_00 (40:52):
That's it for this episode of the Travel Addict
Podcast, where we chase sunsets,flirt with danger, and
occasionally make questionablechoices in foreign lands.
Until next time, may yourflights be on time.
And your travel stories justscandalous enough to leave a few
details out.
Check out Malcolm's websites atmalcolmteesdale.com and
(41:14):
travelingenglishman.com.
Safe travels and enjoy life,everyone.
Welcome to the Travel Addict Podcast.
(00:02):
Your host and fellow traveladdict, Malcolm Teesdale, is
here to take you into the heartof the world's most fascinating
destinations.
He talks with passionateglobetrotters and fearless
explorers who share their wildjourneys and cultural insights
from around the world.
Or sometimes he just chats byhimself, describing enriching
travel experiences.
(00:22):
So buckle up and let's hit theroad, because the world is
calling and we're answering.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
Hello everybody.
Teesdale here, the traveladdict.
Hope you're doing well today.
Beautiful day where I am, whichis nice, you know.
I'm looking at trees, thesquirrels are all running all
over them.
It's all good.
Today, folks, I have a specialguest who has done something
extraordinary, which I likestories like this.
(00:48):
Brianna Gavat.
Hopefully I've spelled uhpronounced her name wrong.
Brianna Govatt.
She's a historian, aphotographer, but she also does
these um escapades, like treksand stuff like that, to places
where not many people wouldthink of uh going.
So, Brianna, hello there.
SPEAKER_02 (01:07):
Hello, how are you?
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
I am very well, thank you.
And glad you could be um with metoday.
Um, Brianna's currently in NewYork, for how long we don't know
until she goes off on one of herescapades again.
Anyway, um we exchanged emails,everybody, quite some time ago.
So uh Brianna did something thatuh not many people would even
(01:30):
think about or know how to evenstart doing it, right?
So uh it's a good place tostart.
And uh what she did, and you cantell about the era you you did
this in.
Um, what you did, you were thefirst woman to walk what we call
the Western Front Way, right?
SPEAKER_02 (01:51):
Yes, yes, I was.
SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
That's amazing.
Now, I know people out therethinking, what on earth is the
Western Frontway?
Now, I only know a little bitabout it, but I know it's
something that stretches from uhborder France and Switzerland up
to the North Sea.
But tell us about why or howthis came about and why you made
the decision to do this.
SPEAKER_02 (02:13):
Uh well, it began.
Um I've I've always studiedhistory.
I'm an art historian.
So uh it was always, you know,and I have always uh the my
attraction to history has alwaysbeen wars and what comes after
wars and everything.
So I had traveled to otherplaces, you know, you do you go
to Europe and you make the solthe solemn voyage to a
concentration camp like Dachau,or or if you're in Poland, you
(02:36):
go to out, like you go to there.
So that was the precursor.
And then I would go to I went toCambodia and I've gone to
Rwanda.
So I've always been interestedin not only war, but what
happens after war.
And, you know, people thinkabout the Great War, World War
I, and they're like, oh my gosh,it happened so long ago.
What does it mean?
And you know, you turn on thenews and you're like, it's still
(02:56):
happening.
So I just I just I learned aboutthe Western Frontway, you know,
in the middle of the night andaround this time of year in
2022, and it just called to me.
And I was like, what do you meanyou can walk the Western Front?
What what do you mean you canwalk through France and go
through the major battlefieldsof the Great War and be in the
(03:17):
woods and be in France, like bein France?
And you know, that that wholeappeal was just something that
it put my two loves together,nature and history.
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
Yeah, how long how long is it, by the way?
SPEAKER_02 (03:28):
It's 500 miles.
Give or take.
SPEAKER_01 (03:31):
And where did when did you physically start this?
SPEAKER_02 (03:34):
This I physically began it on the border of France
and Switzerland.
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Oh, France and Switzerland, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (03:39):
Yeah, so it started at kilometer zero, they call it.
SPEAKER_01 (03:42):
Yes, I know.
Well, we're we'll we're still onthe imperial method, actually.
There's only I think there'sonly two two or three countries
in the world now that uh don'twork on the imperial system.
UK is both of them, but uh andbelieve it or not, you uh US is
one of them, and one of theother ones is Myanmar.
I mean, really, yeah, it's it'sit's really strange, but anyway,
(04:04):
but 500 miles, how long did ittake you, by the way?
SPEAKER_02 (04:07):
36 days.
SPEAKER_01 (04:09):
Well, that's about 14 miles a day, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (04:11):
Yeah, it's about 14 miles a day.
Yeah, yeah, it was uh you feltit after a while.
SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
I was gonna say because the terrain is not 100%
paved roads or flat, is it?
SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
No, no, no.
I started in the mountains, andthen like you know, you go you
would go up and down mountainsin the Vosges, um, and then you
get to Verdun, which is forest,so it's lots of hills, and then
you get to the canals of theSomme, and then into the
flatlands of Belgium.
So it was like, I'm glad Istarted where I did, because
then it got a little easier, butit then it got redundant.
So it was just it was a lot ofwalking, and there's a lot of
(04:44):
farms, a lot of fields, not alot of paved roads.
And uh yeah, it was it was itwas interesting because it was
just you got to traverse allthese different areas of a place
that you wouldn't necessarily goor want to go.
SPEAKER_01 (04:58):
What was its what was its significance in World
War I for me or for in general?
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
Uh for general, you know, how did it become
something I think that it wasjust it was like everything was
getting built up, especially inEurope.
You know, you had the industrialrevolution, you had all these
things changing, and you had aclass system that like didn't
want it to change, and then theywere fighting against it, and
then everybody else that wantedthat change.
And so, you know, you see ithappen in the world today, and
(05:25):
you see people wanting to rageagainst it, and it was just this
cataclysmic event that just kepton going and it just didn't end.
And it, you know, I feel like itshould have ended long before it
did.
SPEAKER_01 (05:37):
Yeah, exactly.
Now the road itself, I mean, itobviously wasn't just plain or
flat, but there were trenchesalong the way.
SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
Oh my gosh, Malcolm, there were so many trenches.
Like you you walk along and youknow, you see a bunker in the
distance, or you see barbedwire.
And then, you know, if like whenI went to the Shimanda Dem,
which was a major battle umalong the Marne, and it was just
like you just see trenches andyou and you just imagine people
digging themselves into thesethese structures that you that
(06:09):
they thought would protect them,and it just you know, then you
look at the maps.
The you you've seen obviouslythe arrow maps of the trenches,
yeah.
Sure.
And it looks like an ant colony,and it just it just it's crazy
because the you know, as much asnature has reclaimed a lot of
the places, it's still you stillsee it every like that's
amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
I was surprised they wouldn't be filled in by nature,
just rain, and all that stuffjust over time, just get filled
in, you know, all thrown over.
SPEAKER_02 (06:34):
But they're still unearthing so many things from
World War One, like you know,they still have unexploded
ordinance and they're stillfinding human remains and
everything, so it's it's reallyit's hectic because you think,
wow, you know, that war it wassupposed to be over in 1918, but
really it's continuing to go,you know.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
Yeah, and yeah, I I yeah, my grandfather was
involved in World War I.
My parents were involved withWorld War II because I I was
born and raised in Britain, sothey were uh there during that
time.
But since you did this, hasanyone else done it?
SPEAKER_02 (07:11):
No, there's been a lot of people.
I think I don't know if they'vewalked the length, but a lot of
people cycle it.
SPEAKER_01 (07:16):
Cycle it?
SPEAKER_02 (07:17):
Yeah, they cycle it.
So they go along, they go frombattlefields to battlefields on
the roads and everything, theygo through the mountains and
they go along the canals, sothey'll cycle it and then visit
all those major battlefields.
SPEAKER_01 (07:27):
So, what do they do?
Carry their bikes with them?
SPEAKER_02 (07:29):
Yeah, no, like they won't go in the mountains, like
they won't go on the trails thatI went on it.
SPEAKER_01 (07:33):
So they're oh okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:34):
Yeah, oh yeah, I could have like that would be
that would be pretty rugged ifsomeone had a mountain bike and
was like, I'm gonna do this, youknow.
Um no, so they go along, theylike it's like a they have
another way that parallels umthe paths that I took.
SPEAKER_01 (07:47):
Okay.
Yeah.
Oh, I just wondered, um, youknow, because um well, it's
obviously 40 miles a day ispretty long based on it is
almost like an obstacle course,is it?
SPEAKER_02 (08:02):
Yes, very much so.
And it felt there were timesthat you know you're tripping
over uh tree roots and rocks andyou know, rutted fields and
everything, and you're justwalking along and you're like,
okay, like I'm acting I'm in it,I'm actually doing this.
SPEAKER_01 (08:17):
Well, that's fantastic.
Now, I've got it always strikesme a question to ask about uh
people who hike in these uhremote locations.
And picture on your website,you've got your backpack, all
that.
Now, is that a tent?
Is that a tent in there?
SPEAKER_02 (08:33):
Oh, yeah, a tent, a sleeping bag.
SPEAKER_01 (08:36):
Okay.
I mean, I'm looking at the sizeof the backpack.
Tents today obviously can becompacted so tightly as sleeping
bags, right?
So but it doesn't look like abig backpack.
But I'm just saying, I mean,this stuff weighs well, and food
as well, right?
Or was it places to get food onthe way?
SPEAKER_02 (08:56):
There were some places, but I would carry, um, I
would carry some food, like Iwould just pick up if if there
was a a store or a market, Iwould pick up, you know, fruit
and vegetables and everything,and then I would carry sardines,
like I had a like emergencystash of sardines with me at all
times.
SPEAKER_01 (09:12):
Well, I mean, so you 36 days, so obviously the start
and the finish or something, butdid you ever stay in any place
that was a lodge instead of atent, or was it tent all the
time?
SPEAKER_02 (09:24):
Definitely.
No, I did a little half andhalf, so I would camp out for a
day or two and then hopefullycome across a place that I could
stay at.
It was very remote though, it'svery rural.
So you'd go to certain placesand um and then be like, oh,
good, there's a hotel here.
I'm going to stay here because Iwant to take a shower or have a
real meal.
You know, you're in France, youwant to eat good food.
SPEAKER_01 (09:44):
Oh, yeah, exactly.
I mean, I'm I'm you know, Europeis Europe, right?
It does rain occasionally there,of course.
SPEAKER_02 (09:52):
So yeah, it rains every day almost.
SPEAKER_01 (09:54):
Yeah, yeah, I know.
Depends what time of year didyou do it, by the way?
SPEAKER_02 (09:57):
I did it late August into September.
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
Okay, so obviously uh a decent time of the year.
Um, so you did that, and umobviously at the end of it, you
got a great sense of wonderfulsense of achievement uh but by
doing that.
Tell me during the trip 36 days,how did you feel um emotionally
(10:22):
about it all?
Uh, what came to your mind aboutthat was it historical things,
or you think about yourself, orwhat what things crossed your
mind?
Because you had a lot of time tothink about stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (10:33):
Oh, yeah, I had a lot of time, and I walked in
like silence.
I didn't have music with me, Iwasn't listening to you know
podcasts like yours or anythingelse like that.
So I was uh spent a lot of timejust with solitude and thinking,
and you know, you can't like asso as someone that studies
history, you know, I could havewallowed in history and like it
(10:53):
was heartbreaking.
There was not a day that myheart wasn't broken, there
wasn't a day that I didn'tthink, oh my gosh.
And the thing is, like you justsaid, your grandfather fought in
World War One and your grandyour parents fought in World War
II.
Like that there wasn't a daythat you weren't reminded that
there was a war and that the warand there was another war.
Like you you there you don'tcome across, like you walk the
Western Front and you go tocertain places and you learn
(11:15):
that you know what happenedduring the Nazi occupation of
France as well.
SPEAKER_01 (11:20):
Yeah.
So yeah, I know.
I my my parents never wanted totalk about the war.
SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (11:27):
Yeah, and I I found a lot of people from that area
they just did not want to bringthe subject up.
I tried to ask my father onceand he he just told me a little
bit.
I found out a bit more actuallyfrom people speaking on YouTube,
but uh obviously uh awful, awfultime in history.
So it's a it's a motion say yourheart was broken just thinking
about stuff, what may havehappened there and all that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:49):
Yes.
Yeah, no, it was really it wasreally heartbreaking because you
know, you it was a war ofattrition, it was a stalemate,
and they just kept on launchingartillery bombardments, they
kept on going at like you know,they there was just they were
literally in the trenches andand there was no ground, you
know, gained or anything elselike that.
So they're they're fighting avery um futile war, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (12:11):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (12:12):
And it wasn't, and I I like to look at it, you know,
in terms of it wasn't as clearcut as World War II.
Like you have democracy and andfreedom fighting under like
totalitarianism and not Nazismand fascism and everything.
So it wasn't it wasn't asclear-cut, it was more like egos
conflicting with one another,like, oh no, we want all the
(12:32):
power in the world, and no, wewant all the power in the world,
and there and they've draggedmillions, the whole world into a
conflict, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (12:40):
Yeah, I I know you look back in history, and even
for centuries, there's alwaysbeen conflicts and wars, even in
the Caribbean.
You'd be surprised what goes hasgone on there in history, but
you look at any area in theworld, there's always been times
of conflict.
Uh so I I tell you, but uh, youknow, that's that was uh times
(13:04):
of World War II, and uh I I knowI've uh you mentioned earlier
on, and uh I did this myselfactually because I had a
curiosity about the war days.
And I think you've been to thisplace as well because you
mentioned it when you went toCambodia.
Um I'm assuming you went to thekilling fields, right?
SPEAKER_02 (13:22):
I did, I did, and I went to Toslong, which was the
prison that they oldschoolhouse, yeah, and turned
into a prison.
SPEAKER_01 (13:29):
And talk about thought-provoking, I mind.
There's what a million and ahalf people slaughtered during
that period of time, you know,and it's just unbelievable.
Yeah, just seeing that.
And uh I know it's just outsideof Phnom Penh, but it's yeah, if
anyone goes there to Cambodia, agreat place to go to.
It's still developing, butpeople are really nice, but uh
definitely a place worth goingto to really get the the mind
(13:54):
churning over, right?
SPEAKER_02 (13:56):
No, definitely.
And then and then you know, I Icame back from Cambodia.
I don't know if I yeah, when Icame back, I had watched The
Killing Fields, which was such aprofound movie because have you
have you seen it?
Yes, yeah, and then one of myfavorite songs at the end of it,
Nessuno Dormo, and like youthink about it and you're like,
and that's I think that's thesame song that they played in um
Life is Beautiful as well.
SPEAKER_01 (14:16):
Yeah, I can't remember, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (14:19):
It's this beautiful, like poverty, it's this
beautiful song, and you justthink like, oh my gosh, like in
terms of not opera, but in termsof like no one sleeps.
That's the the way war is, it'sjust no one sleeps, it just it
just keeps on going.
SPEAKER_01 (14:31):
Yeah, it it does, and we never learn from it
actually.
And obviously, um Krakow, go toKrakow an hour away, is
Auschwitz and three camps thereas well.
I saw that was horrific.
And recently, a year ago, I wasin Stutthof, which is in Gdansk
Poland, and went to see thatplace as well.
It's interesting.
But um, yeah, I went to BridgeOver the River Choir area uh
(14:52):
many, many years ago, uh, mainlybecause of the movie, obviously.
But uh it's just seeing thesesites is uh is definitely
thought-provoking, isn't it?
You know.
SPEAKER_02 (15:01):
No, definitely, and especially like you know, being
where you're from, that youknow, going to a place like
Vietnam to to see those things,like is like, well, we weren't
as involved in the conflict asAmerica was, so it's just it's a
different, it's a differentperspective, you know.
It's a different.
But it's interesting.
I mean, like, I just I I'mfascinated by going to these
places because they just theyare thought-provoking.
(15:24):
They they they make you sit andthink and acknowledge the
darkest, the darkness that we weenter into when we go into war.
SPEAKER_01 (15:33):
Yeah, it it it does.
So I think everyone should tryand do it.
I think because it's a learningexperience and the realization
that uh why can people be socruel?
Right, and uh and uh it's justawful.
Um so it goes on today,obviously, uh during wars and
(15:57):
conflicts, as all these innocentpeople dying.
Um necessarily it's brutal, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (16:03):
Yeah, and it's like almost like people justify it
and say, well, they're wrong.
And it's like, who are you tosay what is wrong and what is
right?
You know, like it's just it's soconvoluted, it's it's so
nuanced, it's not, it's not,it's not black and white,
there's so much gray area.
SPEAKER_01 (16:19):
Uh yeah, there is, and the the quest for power and
land and resources and all thatstuff, but what about the
innocent lives that are lost?
It's anyway.
Well, that's another probablystory for another time, but it's
it's it's brutal.
I I I've got got on the um thequest to keep learning more and
more about the rest of theworld.
SPEAKER_02 (16:40):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (16:41):
Pass those stories on, but uh I've got to do it,
you know.
Um now you wrote you justfinished a book, There Will Come
Soft Rains, right?
SPEAKER_02 (16:50):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
And is that about your area you went to?
SPEAKER_02 (16:54):
Yeah, no, it's it's it's it's it's the it's a
travel, it's like a travelmemoir meets not a history book
because there's so manybeautiful writers, be beautiful
historians and incredible umresearchers that have really
committed so much of their timeand energy and everything into
explaining World War One, thethe what happened beforehand,
(17:15):
what happened during and whathappened after and stuff like
that.
So it's more like my personalreflection on the war and what
it means today, and also myexperiences along the way,
because as devastating as thewar was, I also had such a
beautiful, profound experiencewalking along the Western Front.
SPEAKER_01 (17:34):
Yeah, that's it.
Uh, I mean, that that's verytrue.
And learning experience, butfulfilling at the same time.
SPEAKER_02 (17:41):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (17:42):
Yeah, and you got stories to tell, which is uh
which is fantastic.
So obviously, you do somethingthat most people wouldn't even
think about it, right?
SPEAKER_02 (17:51):
No, a lot of people, you know, it's so funny because
when I said like I go to theWestern Front, they're like, Oh,
did you go to the Maginot line?
I'm like, I'm like, no, theMaginot line was developed after
World War One because they werelike, we can stop Germany from
coming in there.
And I'm like, but they wentthrough Belgium.
So what do you what do you meanthat you're gonna be able to
stop them again, you know?
So it's it's interesting becausea lot of people they have like
(18:14):
it's almost like um the war isfar away for them.
Like the Great War is far away.
It's something that happened,but it wasn't as present and
prevalent as World War II or inAmerica, the Revolutionary War
and the Civil War andeverything.
It's like peep that's whatpeople come to the forefront of
their minds when they think ofconflict.
SPEAKER_01 (18:33):
Yeah, exactly.
I know.
Oh well, hopefully uh one willlearn one day that uh well be
nice to go over the period oftime where there's every the
world is at peace.
You know, when I do my my talks,um I do uh talks on cruise
lines, I I talk about adventuretravel.
(18:54):
The first slide on that is thatwe have to make an assumption
that the world is problem-freeand peaceful right now, before I
bring up some suggestions ofplaces to go to.
So, and of course, peoplegiggle.
Yeah, I I get that, but um, butwhat um you also mentioned a bit
earlier, Rwanda as well.
SPEAKER_02 (19:14):
Yes, yes.
I did my thesis, my master'sthesis at from graduate school
on the Rwanda genocide.
Um, because I was like studying,I'm I started at art history,
and I was like, what I was liketrying to figure out what I
really wanted to write about andwhat was was important.
And that was at the time when Iwas really falling in love with
photography.
Like in my early, in my late 20sin my 20s and like in my early
(19:36):
30s, I was like, no, words areimportant.
And then you see these imagesand you're like, wow, they're
they they they give you pause,they make you stop and think.
Yeah, and so I came across allthese incredible war
photographers, all these peoplethat traveled all these
distances to chronicle thesewars.
And uh what struck me was Rwandaand and how you know it happened
(20:02):
the genocide happened for ahundred days, and then
afterwards, like you know,images would come through, but
you know, nobody nobody likereally said anything.
Like we knew it happened, but itwasn't like the scale at which
it happened was justunbelievably unfathomable, you
know.
And then I came across this umthis photograph, this artist, uh
Alfredo Yar, he's a Chileanartist, and he grew up during uh
(20:25):
Pinochet's dictatorship.
SPEAKER_01 (20:27):
Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:28):
So he always like he looked at the world through the
lens of like he he grew up in inChile and then he came to
America and he just wanted toshow the world, he wanted to put
a mirror up to the world.
SPEAKER_01 (20:41):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
And so I I couldn't I I always and I'm I'm sure
you're exactly the same way.
I couldn't write about somethingor think so deeply about
something without traveling tothat place to understand it
more.
SPEAKER_01 (20:54):
Exactly.
Yeah, I I know what you mean.
You you urge to go there to seereally what it uh was like or
what is like.
Yes, I get that.
Uh with with Rwanda, when whatyear were you there, by the way?
Just curious.
SPEAKER_02 (21:10):
I was there in 2014, so it was the 20th annivers
anniversary.
I hate that that's a terribleword to say.
It was uh it was a year of itmarked 20 years since the
genocide.
SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
Yeah, the hoot is in two what is it?
SPEAKER_02 (21:24):
The hoot is in the yeah, the hoot is in two, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:27):
Yeah, that's that's right.
But hasn't Kigali, the capital,just developed quite well now?
SPEAKER_02 (21:32):
Oh gosh, it's it's a flamboyant city.
Yeah, yeah, it's it's abeautiful, it's a flourishing
city, and I I love it beingthere because you know, when you
go to African nations, you youyou have this idea of what you
know, people always put thewhole continent as one country
or something, you know.
I don't know if they do it inthe UK, but they do it in
America.
They're like, oh, Africa.
And I'm like, there's 54countries there.
(21:53):
Which one are you talking about?
You know?
Um, but you know, you go thereand you, you know, people are
speaking French, they'respeaking Kinyarwanda, they're
speaking um Koza, they'respeaking all these other
languages that or and dialectsthat you're just like, oh my
god, this is so cosmopolitan,you know?
SPEAKER_01 (22:11):
Yep, it is.
Yeah, and that obviously appliesto most of Africa.
Actually, my father wasstationed in um Zimbabwe now,
but it was then Rhodesia.
SPEAKER_02 (22:22):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (22:22):
He was stationed there for a period of time.
SPEAKER_02 (22:24):
Oh wow, what was he doing?
SPEAKER_01 (22:26):
Uh well, it was in the Air Force.
And again, he didn't tell memuch about it, but protecting
what was sort of a Britishterritory.
Um, but he caught malaria thereas well in the whole scheme of
things.
But anyway, yeah, he was therefor a while.
So I made a point in goingthere.
Uh obviously he's close toVictoria Falls, so I went there
to see that.
(22:46):
Uh part of Mother Nature's umcreation.
But uh yeah, that wasfascinating.
And um actually I'll be back inAfrica next February.
SPEAKER_02 (22:56):
Oh nice, where are you going?
SPEAKER_01 (22:57):
I'm I'm going to um I'm flying into Cape Town.
SPEAKER_02 (23:00):
Oh nice.
SPEAKER_01 (23:00):
And then traveling up the west coast, uh, all the
way up the west coast um to uhuh Lisbon.
But I was in uh just three yearsago.
Oh actually three years ago, ifyou haven't been to this place,
I talked about this to someonethe other day, Namibia.
SPEAKER_02 (23:18):
No, I want to go to Namibia so desperately.
Like I think Namibia would be, Ithink that's like one of my next
trips, like Namibia, Botswana.
I've been to South Africa, but Ihave never been north of there
except you know, north in likeMorocco and Rwanda.
SPEAKER_01 (23:32):
Oh, okay, yeah.
South Africa's cool.
No, I went to I had to gothrough Johannesburg to get to
Namibia.
I stayed in Windhock, thecapital, for one night before
driving five hours into theworld's oldest desert.
SPEAKER_02 (23:43):
Oh, cool.
SPEAKER_01 (23:44):
Yeah.
Um, and it's 55 million yearsold that place is, but that's
where Dead Vlay is as well.
SPEAKER_02 (23:50):
But I that's where all those trees are, like the
trees and that's right, yeah,they're right.
SPEAKER_01 (23:54):
They're 900 years old, but they won't decompose
because there's zero water.
And um, I climbed the well, youdo this when you get you're you
can climb the world's highestsand dune.
And uh but it's the scenery isunbelievable, Brianna.
So stay in a lodge there and uhlike I did for a week or so, and
just scenery is spectacular andthe sunset's great country,
(24:17):
unbelievable scenery.
SPEAKER_02 (24:19):
Anyway, I've heard so many I've heard nothing but
good things.
It's it's definitely there.
I mean, you know, you'vetraveled your whole life.
There's always something to addto the list.
SPEAKER_01 (24:28):
Yeah, and always well, there's all be there's
always going to be somewherethat you have to go.
This book it list term thatpeople talk about, overuse, but
uh yeah, we've we've all gotone, but mine's getting longer,
it should be getting shorter theolder I get, but it's not, you
know.
SPEAKER_02 (24:45):
Next on your list.
SPEAKER_01 (24:47):
So I don't know.
It's but but anyway, that thatthat's worth uh a visit.
But uh I'm stopping off.
I um I do um speaking on umcruise ships and I'm on one
that's going from Cape Town.
It stops at Namibia a couple ofplaces, then goes up through uh
Senegal, Ghana, uh Sartome, anduh several other countries en
route.
So uh so I get to speak quite abit.
SPEAKER_02 (25:09):
That sounds awesome.
That sounds like and then youwind up in Lisbon, which is
Portugal's the food is so good.
SPEAKER_01 (25:16):
Uh yeah.
You mentioned earlier on aboutthe uh the language there, and
um I'm I'm working on somethingwhen I when I get chats out,
I'll be done by the time is uhhow to speak trilingual and how
to speak uh English, Americanand African.
Yes, different English versionsthat do the translation because
uh it's interesting.
Learning a white country.
SPEAKER_02 (25:37):
And then you go to those places and you're like,
you know, you listen to peoplethat um speak English fluently
and they're like, oh, I'm sorry,my English is not good.
And then you're like, and thenyou you pick up on, okay, well,
did you learn British English?
Did you learn American English?
Did you learn, you know, whichwhich English did you learn?
Or did you like, you know,because there's a lot of people
that will watch movies and learnand learn English that way, or
you know, they have they go to agood school where they learn it,
(25:58):
but it's just like it's I'm soI'm such in so much admiration
for people that speak so manylanguages and have you know
control over them.
SPEAKER_01 (26:08):
Yeah, I I I know and people people ask me because I
traveled, they said, well, howmany languages do you speak,
Malcolm?
I said five.
And and they said, that'sfantastic.
Well, what are they?
So I tell them English,American, Australian, and the
language of New Zealand.
SPEAKER_02 (26:25):
Not Canadian, you're not gonna put the whole you're
not gonna put the wholeCommonwealth in there.
SPEAKER_01 (26:29):
Yeah, I know.
I'm working on another onemyself, but anyway, but Muda's
got their own language as well.
But anyway, that's it's just thelingo, isn't it?
And Wales.
There we go.
SPEAKER_02 (26:38):
Oh yes.
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
Yeah, that that's gonna be the hardest language in
the world to learn.
SPEAKER_02 (26:43):
Welsh?
SPEAKER_01 (26:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:44):
I didn't I've not I've not even tried.
Like honestly, like I I for me,uh, you know, you go because I
haven't been to Wales yet, andI've always wanted to go, but
it's like every time I go overthere, I'm like, no, they want
to go, you know, want to go tolike Poland and I want to go to
Eastern Europe and I want to goto Greece and all that other
stuff.
So it's just it's just you haveall these, you know, you like
again, your bucket list getslonger, and it's like, okay,
(27:07):
well where where where to next?
SPEAKER_01 (27:11):
Yeah, well, I I know.
Um well talking that that's aquestion for you.
Where next for you?
SPEAKER_02 (27:16):
I think I'm going to Paris next month.
SPEAKER_01 (27:19):
Paris.
SPEAKER_02 (27:19):
Yes.
Now after that, I've really beensitting tight with um getting
this book out there.
Like I put I spent three yearswriting the book.
So it only took me 36 days towalk the Western Front, but it
took me three years to write thebook, and I dedicated so much
time and so much energy and somuch effort into it that I want
to see where it takes me, youknow.
Like I want to, I want to openup the doors that I dream for
(27:41):
it.
SPEAKER_01 (27:41):
Yeah.
So I should be all right.
I've I've heard that um Paris isgetting a bit, I don't say
overrun, but very popular withtourists now, right?
Yeah, it could be a bit crowded.
So I I think um if I if I everwent there again, I'd probably
stay off the beaten path alittle bit and just stay not in.
SPEAKER_02 (28:00):
I'm going with my aunt.
Like I'm not I'm going as atrip, a family trip.
So I'm not going like if if Ihad a choice, I would not choose
Paris.
No offense to my aunt.
I love my aunt very, very much,but it wouldn't be my first
choice.
Like if I were to I would flyinto Paris and then I would go
and spend more time in Brittanyand Normandy and then even like
the Loire and everything.
(28:21):
Like I'd I'd want to go, I'dwant to get a car and just drive
everywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
My my sister in England, her andher husband, they sometimes
drive over to France, get theferry over, take the car and
drive around France.
Uh and uh there's it's it'sgreat drive, easy driving there.
Roads are in great conditions.
SPEAKER_02 (28:41):
It's a pleasure to drive in France.
Like, I mean it's a pleasure towalk in France, but it's a
pleasure to drive in France toobecause they all abide by, you
know, like the left lane is apassing lane, and then you move
over and just keep on drivinglike this.
Like, you know, it's a it's ait's nice, but you know, there
were times when I was walking, Iwas like, I would love to have a
car right now.
SPEAKER_01 (29:01):
Well, good for you.
I mean, how long will you goaway at any one time?
Uh depends.
SPEAKER_02 (29:07):
Usually, um usually about like my shortest trip
would be maybe a week, but yeah,not not not long at all, but
those are short trips.
Those are those are you knowvisiting places or whatever.
But I like to go for months at atime.
Like if I'm gonna go away, Iwant to go away for at least two
months.
SPEAKER_01 (29:25):
Yeah, okay.
That that that's that's right.
So if you were going to well,Paris is um obviously a major
city.
Got a lot of stuff to see there,but on a more adventurous side,
uh, not trekking necessarily,but um on the more adventurous
side, what have you got youryour sights set on?
Anything like that?
SPEAKER_02 (29:44):
Yes, no, I definitely, I definitely have I
have a big trip planned.
I have two big trips planned,but I have to like they're in
the very very first stages.
Um, and they both revolve aroundWorld War I and even World War
II.
So I want to go spend time inEastern Europe.
I am a child of the Cold War.
I was born in 1980.
So, like, you know, we were wewere the hopeful generation that
(30:06):
it was like, no, the war isgonna end.
We're not gonna nuke each other.
Uh and then and then the wallwill fall down.
So it was like it, I I wouldlove to uh spend time along the
Berlin Wall from like Finland toGreece.
SPEAKER_01 (30:20):
There you go.
It's a great city, actually.
Stay in the center, and uh youcan actually walk toward the
sites the Brandenburg Gate, seethe some remnants of the Berlin
Wall, the Holocaust Museum, andall that.
SPEAKER_02 (30:32):
So I've been there, I've been there, I was there
last year.
I was there a space.
SPEAKER_01 (30:36):
Oh, okay.
So you know about it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:38):
And I was on my way to uh like I didn't want to like
it.
Like I loved Berlin, I thoughtit was such a cool city.
Yeah, but I was on my way toPoland.
I'm like, I can't like Germany.
I can't like Germany because I'mPolish and it's unfair to my
heritage.
SPEAKER_01 (30:54):
Yeah, I I get it.
I get it.
All right.
Well, I I tell you one placethat um maybe you wouldn't go
there now, but I I was there atthe end of 2021.
It's Kiev in the Ukraine.
Yes, it's um beautiful, justspectacular architecture, lovely
people, and that's a great senseof humor those people had.
(31:16):
But yeah, that that it was sortof uh there was a couple of uh
demonstrations there, but youjust know something was brewing
there.
But I got to see some of the thewonderful sites there, and uh
they take pride in theirindependence, obviously, since
1991.
But uh anyway, it was uh quitesimple in that experience, but
anyway, it's I know I want to Iwant to go over, I want to spend
(31:36):
more time there.
SPEAKER_02 (31:36):
Really, I think that you know, you look at World War
I and you look at um whathappened with the Treaty of
Versailles and you look at howit benefited a lot of the
Western European nations andAmerica, but then you look at
the other side of it and see thedevastation that it caused
throughout all of EasternEurope, and then you're like,
well, that makes sense then.
Like, you know, like after WorldWar, you know, the with World
(31:57):
War I, it was like, okay, itended in 1918.
It's like, but the Germans wentto war against the Polish, and
then the Polish went to waragainst Russia, and then they
were all fighting in theAustro-Hungarian, like it was it
just it just it ne it just neverended.
It was just like a an avalanche,it was a snowball effect into
the next war, and it was justit's just so there's such rich
(32:18):
history, and I think we kind oflike disregard it as as
something that was, you know,you have beautiful composers,
beautiful food, beautifulcultures, you know, that went
that have been through it too.
SPEAKER_01 (32:29):
Yeah, I I know, and that's this stuff spread so
much.
I was in Scandinavia.
Uh, I've been to Scandinavia acouple of times, up in the
Nordics, and to be surprised,but people don't know this.
Uh, the World War II was prettyprominent in that area as well.
Yeah, I know it's it's amazing,and they've still got uh KGB
museum up there, and it'samazing to know what to learn
(32:51):
what actually happened duringthat area during the wartime.
Um that's all educational.
Now, you I'm looking at yourwebsite here, Brianna, and
you've got another hid hiddentalent as well.
So yeah, I I think you you writeit poetry.
SPEAKER_02 (33:07):
Yeah, I write poetry.
SPEAKER_01 (33:08):
I just read a couple of your things, and it's got
poem and photographs.
So I thought that's that'sgreat, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (33:14):
Thank you, thank you.
It's something that um I don'tknow.
I just I I like I I I don't liketo live a superficial life, so I
like to feel things deeply.
So if I go out in nature and Iexperience it, what better way
to share it than takingphotographs and then reflecting
on them through words, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (33:30):
Yeah, I I that's that's a good way to feel, yeah.
Um I enjoy I enjoy nature, likestaying in places that are off
the beam path, you know.
I'll be in Bali later on thisyear.
I'm just gonna uh before I getunder the cruise ship gig, I'm
gonna just stay in the jungle inBali for a few days.
SPEAKER_02 (33:47):
Oh, that sounds like a wonderful time.
That sounds like you know I feellike I I need one of those rest
and reset trips after aftersitting in front of my computer
all the time, sending out emailsand connecting with people like
you and everything.
And it's just like I just wantto decompress and just be, you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (34:03):
Exactly.
You gotta do it uh while youcan.
Now, as far as uh if anyonereaching out to you, uh I'm
looking at your website here.
Um your website is the PeregrinePilgrim, right?
SPEAKER_02 (34:17):
Yes, it is, but you can look up BriannaGervat.com
and it'll lead you there anyway.
SPEAKER_01 (34:22):
Okay, got it.
Yeah, okay, he's got it thereand on your website.
I have looked at everything, butit's a list of your books and uh
poems, photographs, and aboutyou and good picture of you
hiking there along the westernfront.
SPEAKER_02 (34:35):
Not in a trench, but you're you're there hiking and
uh You know it's so funnybecause like you know what, you
see you go on social media andall these people like take
selfies and stuff like that.
And I I I don't know.
I guess the way uh you and Itravel in the way, like the way
I travel, I um I I feel like I'mlike desecrating the memory of
places.
If I'm like taking a selfie infront of a trench or you know
what I mean?
It just oh yeah, it feels soinauthentic and it feels so you
(35:00):
know, and I'm not a selfieperson anyway.
Like I like I like videos, Ilike being in person and
everything else like that.
And it just um yeah, like when Iwent to the trenches, I like
just sat with them, you know.
You walk through these trenchesand you're just like they really
dug.
And then even if the even if umsomething like a a shell
exploded in the trench, theystill rebuilt it or refortified
(35:22):
it with like wood and sandbagsand concrete if they could.
SPEAKER_01 (35:27):
I tell you, well, with with trekking, are you I
don't know you're going to visitplaces.
Are you you still planning oneday to do another lengthy trek,
maybe?
SPEAKER_02 (35:36):
Oh, every day.
Like I go walk in the woodsevery day.
So it's okay, yeah.
So really, really going on alonger trek is just being able
to do it the days on end.
But like I said, I don't want tojust go to Berlin for the Berlin
Wall.
Like I would love, love, love togo from Finland to Greece and
walk the length of the BerlinWall.
SPEAKER_01 (35:55):
Get out.
How long will that take?
SPEAKER_02 (35:58):
It's like 2100 kilometers, so or 2,000 miles.
Maybe it's more, maybe it's morethan 21.
Yeah, it's like 2,000 miles.
So it would take a long time.
SPEAKER_01 (36:07):
We better go at the right time.
It gets a bit chilly up there.
SPEAKER_02 (36:10):
Well, yeah, no, I was thinking, I'm like, maybe I
can get like a dog sled forFinland, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
Oh, okay.
I I did the Himalayas a fewyears ago.
I always, when I was growing up,I it came into my brain cells.
I told my parents I'll trick theHimalayas one day and they sort
of laughing, but I did do iteventually.
Um, but uh there you go.
I tell you the interesting thingabout that is obviously being
Himalayas spectacular uh sceneryand all that, is all these um
mountain communities of peoplewho live there and just mingling
(36:41):
with these people, learning howthey live from day to day.
SPEAKER_02 (36:45):
They do it, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:46):
It's amazing.
And I it's very educational.
They do it, they live that waybecause they want to.
SPEAKER_02 (36:51):
Yeah, and and it's cold and they and they dress
appropriately or they make itthrough a winter that lasts
eight months, and it just I knowamazing.
SPEAKER_01 (36:59):
Yeah, I tell you.
I mean, there's that that thereis so much in the world to
discover and learn about peopleand the way they live, and they
live that way primarily becausethey want to.
Some people don't have a choiceactually in some places, but but
anyway, uh, it's it's one willwell uh keep on traveling.
So, any anything do you want tosay to people out there about
(37:20):
your website or if you do youwant people to contact you for a
chit chat or anything or tellthem about it?
SPEAKER_02 (37:25):
Yeah, no, I would love, I would love it for the
people.
I love when reaching out topeople.
Like I speak to this woman,Domenica.
Uh she's she's from Germany andshe's a lovely young woman, and
she wound up coming across mybook, and now we're like
developing a friendship.
And it's just it's just reallynice to, you know, and even
talking to you and everything,it's so nice to connect with
like-minded people or peoplethat care deeply about the world
(37:46):
that we live in and want tounderstand it and want to see
it.
So yeah, like I love, I lovewhen people reach out and I
love, you know, if they if theyread my book or want to get my
book, that's like an addedbonus.
But you know, I'm not here forjust that, I'm here for human
connection, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (38:01):
Yeah, exactly.
You know what?
You you you write a book, and uhas my mother said to me many,
many years ago, she said,Malcolm, just write a book.
I said, Why?
She said, so you can read itlater on in life, and that's
exactly what I do.
Yeah, I don't do any marketing.
I mean, uh, you know, when I'mold and decrepit, uh, I'll pick
(38:23):
up one one of my books and readit and say, Who the hell is this
guy?
You know, I just just saying Idon't I hope I'm uh set
knowledgeable enough to to lookback and uh smile a little, you
know.
So that's good.
You definitely I encourageanyone to write a book.
It's like keeping photographsand videos around and souvenirs.
Write a book as well.
(38:43):
That's a great thing to do.
SPEAKER_02 (38:45):
Exactly.
And like I look at it like, youknow, I I did spend all that
time, and I'm sure like you, youas a writer, I mean, it's not
writing is not this easyendeavor.
It's not like, oh, this justflows.
I could just sit down and writea book, and in three weeks, I'm
like, we're not Tolstoy, we'renot like writing like, you know,
but it's it's you know, youwrite you write these books, and
(39:06):
then I I always think about itas like just a diary that you
don't mind somebody else pickingup.
SPEAKER_01 (39:11):
Yeah, exactly.
So it's it's it's it's allright.
We we just do it and uh yeah,I've got some books I wrote up
on the shelf that I'm I I lookat the title of it, I thought I
can't even remember what I wrotein there now.
Maybe I'll pick it up one day,you know.
SPEAKER_02 (39:26):
Do you feel that way with writing too?
Like I feel like sometimes likeI look back at like some of the
books that I've written or someof the words that I've written,
I'm like, all right, am I this?
I'm am I the same writer?
Do I feel the same way?
Or like that you finish it andit's not yours anymore.
So you like you might look backat it like years from now.
But sometimes I I finish a bookand I'm like, okay, what's next?
(39:46):
You know, it's not just youdon't just linger on that book.
You're just like, okay, whatelse can I write about?
What else can I share?
What else can I experience to beable to write something more?
SPEAKER_01 (39:56):
Yeah, you know, but you know, just do it while when
you can, when you feel like it,when you're in the mood and all
that.
So it's it's it's all good.
So yeah, we'll keep we'll keeptraveling.
But take keep in touch, uh,Brianna.
I'd like to know about yourescapades.
SPEAKER_02 (40:10):
Yes, I want to know.
I want to I want to know aboutyour trip to all those African
nations and all of that.
SPEAKER_01 (40:15):
Yeah, that'd be interesting.
Uh I don't know what to expectuh when I'm down there, but uh
who the heck knows?
But I'm looking forward to it,and it's an area that world,
especially Western Africa, thatI've never, apart from Namibia,
been to before.
So I'm looking forward to that.
But anyway, safe travels to you.
SPEAKER_02 (40:32):
Thank you very much.
And uh safe travels to you.
SPEAKER_01 (40:34):
And uh enjoy enjoy life.
You're enjoying it, which isgreat.
So what you've done in life isvery commendable.
SPEAKER_02 (40:41):
Thank you.
As as are you.
SPEAKER_01 (40:44):
All right.
Well, take care of yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (40:47):
Bye.
I'll see you later, Ralphum.
SPEAKER_01 (40:48):
See ya, bye-bye.
SPEAKER_02 (40:50):
Bye.
SPEAKER_01 (40:51):
Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_02 (40:51):
Bye.
SPEAKER_00 (40:52):
That's it for this episode of the Travel Addict
Podcast, where we chase sunsets,flirt with danger, and
occasionally make questionablechoices in foreign lands.
Until next time, may yourflights be on time.
And your travel stories justscandalous enough to leave a few
details out.
Check out Malcolm's websites atmalcolmteesdale.com and
(41:14):
travelingenglishman.com.
Safe travels and enjoy life,everyone.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.