February 6, 2026 • 44 mins
Dr. Lily Filson ia an art historian, author, and professor, whose work explores the global Renaissance through the lenses of technology, craft knowledge, and cross-cultural exchange. She holds a PhD and has taught at American universities since 2018.
Her research spans early modern Europe and South Arabia—from Medici automata and hardstone workshops to Yemeni epigraphy, Islamic architecture, and the long history of Red Sea intercultural contact.
Listen to her talk about her wonderful experiences living in Yemen and Italy.
Her research spans early modern Europe and South Arabia—from Medici automata and hardstone workshops to Yemeni epigraphy, Islamic architecture, and the long history of Red Sea intercultural contact.
Check her out here:
https://sites.google.com/view/lilyvfilsonphd/home
https://lehigh.academia.edu/LilyFilson
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Travel Addict Podcast.
Your host and fellow traveladdict, Malcolm Teesdale, is
here to take you into the heartof the world's most fascinating
destinations.
He talks with passionateglobetrotters and fearless
explorers who share their wildjourneys and cultural insights
from around the world.
Or sometimes he just chats byhimself, describing enriching
(00:21):
travel experiences.
So buckle up and let's hit theroad because the world is
calling and we're answering.
SPEAKER_01 (00:28):
Hello everybody, Malcolm Tist out here, the
travel addict.
Hope you're doing all right outthere.
Where I am right now, we're justrecovering from ISIS snowstorm,
which um being in North Carolinais a bit rare, but uh we're
recovering.
But on the line today, on thephone, or on the I should say
the podcast, is Dr.
(00:49):
Lily Tilson, and um PhD, ofcourse, and uh she's here to
talk to me about somethingrather different, and I love
that.
So uh Lily, how are you?
SPEAKER_02 (01:03):
Hey, thank you for having me.
It's really a delight to joinyour podcast.
I'm I'm a bit of a traveladdict, and we'll we'll go into
uh some of the areas, I imagine,soon, but I'm I'm really
delighted to take part andcontribute to to the collection
you're making.
SPEAKER_01 (01:18):
Yeah, we'll get into the travel bits in um a little
while.
Now, you know, I've read yourprofile, and I know you explore
renaissance innovation, uh,Arabian history and global
technologies, some of which willreshape the world.
Uh, you're a historian, author,filmmaker, and professor.
So my first question is, how'dyou find time to sleep?
SPEAKER_02 (01:42):
Oh, actually, look, I'm also a mother, and I I'm
from this, I live in NewOrleans.
I'm I'm a so this is a quotethat actually I used in an
interview successfully.
Um, another mother told me,Well, you know, I'm less
southern than some, but shesaid, Well, if you want
something done, you give it to abusy woman, and then walked off.
(02:03):
It was the perfect, it was theperfect delivery, and that's
what no, really, and that's umthat was a pearl, and that's
what I think about.
So, and it's true.
The more one lives, the thetruer it gets.
You know, if you want somethingdone, give it to a busy woman.
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Yeah, yeah, got it.
Where were you originally born,though?
SPEAKER_02 (02:20):
I was born in New Orleans, the only the only one
in my family.
SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
Really?
So you're still there?
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
No, I am still there uh with my with my mother and
daughter, actually.
I'm quite blessed.
SPEAKER_01 (02:30):
Well, great.
I mean, I I've been to whenespecially when I lived in the
Destin area, it's about afour-hour drive, I think, to New
Orleans when I lived there andthere.
And but that was many years ago.
And obviously, when I havefriends come over from and
relatives come over from acrossthe pond from England, I always
used to take them to NewOrleans, see what they think
about it, and it was alwaysalways to be fun.
(02:52):
What's it like these days?
SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
Well, we're gearing up for Mardi Gras, so it is
still it's still very cold, butthe first parades roll tomorrow
night.
Well, there have been there havebeen some, but the ones that
roll down the main St.
Charles Avenue are startingtonight.
Traffic's a nightmare, they putblockades, uh it but we're it's
very, you know, you know, andthe feeling that most people get
(03:17):
right on Christmas Eve thatsomething great's going to
happen.
We get it soon after, and thenit lasts for about two weeks of
parades and fun.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
How far away do you live from all the action?
SPEAKER_02 (03:29):
Um well, I live in an in an area that's close to a
park that's on the same paradeline.
Oh, yeah.
So I could take the streetcar.
If I if I could take thestreetcar, um perhaps five or
six blocks from my house, rideit down to the start of the
parade.
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Yeah, it's a unique place, no doubt about that.
All right, let's get into the uhthe important stuff here.
Yeah.
You do a lot of things, but whenwhen one of the things you do is
explore modern uh sorry, you youresearch on early modern Europe
um and also renaissance.
Um what what do you class asmodern Europe?
SPEAKER_02 (04:06):
Oh, that's a very big question.
Because we see, you know, ashistorians, we look for what
what are markers of our modern,so what makes modern.
That's such a big question.
Um modern Europe.
I think giving the historian theanswer, it's when when we look
(04:26):
at medieval culture and we seethat that's not even just its
own thing, that's sometimesdistorted memories from
antiquity, sometimes it's morerecent local traditions.
And then modern Europe, I think,as a feature, the the classic
answer is looking at RenaissanceFlorence and how you know new
ideas were circulated and thenwere held in common by the
(04:50):
courts in continental Europe.
And then England, a bit, a bit,you know, later to the game, but
still participating, but notcertainly not more of a
recipient of a lot of ideas andseeing it manifest in in English
ways, like the EnglishRenaissance.
Um yeah, I think when we startto see the the coherent of a
(05:12):
culture and the markers of ideasthat are still current, you
know, what what makes a modernsociety, what makes is it a
political system, is itdemocracy, is it, you know,
there are a lot of questionsabout what what modernity, what
modernity is.
SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
Yeah, I just wondered, I thought in theory
the like medieval era wasbetween the fifth and the 15th
centuries, and it was class asmodern after that.
But you know, I I recently I wasin Europe and there's some
great, lovely places out there.
I went to Till in Estonia, butthe whole city center is all med
still medieval today, and it'sit's wonderful, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (05:50):
It is wonderful.
I um so I'm working on my secondbook right now, and a lot of it
looks at uh what's called likean early modern travelogue
because it's an Italiantraveler, but who goes through
Arabia, who goes through Yemen,a lot has been written about
what he wrote about India, hegoes to Indonesia, um, claims as
far as anyway, there is morecontroversial the further he
(06:12):
goes.
But so much of the ideas andlike his storytelling, and this
is it was published in 15, youknow, 1510, so early 16th
century, but so much of it iscarryovers of medieval ideas,
like there's cannibals, youknow, in the in the Red Sea
area.
There's um, you know, some somevery problematic medieval
(06:34):
attitudes, of course, to Muslimsand and you know, the others.
And there's a lot, there's a lotto say about like race and how
Europeans saw others that wasstill very medieval.
But um, here is something thatliterary historians have held up
as like uh the first of themodern travel logs that you get
(06:54):
in Renaissance service, youknow, travel lighting, you know,
Thomas, sorry, travel writing,Thomas Koriate, and all all all
the the whole genre thatexisted.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:06):
I'm surprised that when you when we talked about
the medieval area, I neverconsidered um Muslim areas or
that area of the world, likeArabia or anywhere else for that
matter, but obviously it'saffected them as well.
All right.
SPEAKER_02 (07:22):
Well, it's it's such a different narrative in times
because so I imagine we'll talkto a lot of my work is informed
by where I've been lucky enoughto live and travel.
Um, I did my graduate studies inItaly, so I was in a great
position to have access toarchives and be able to really
research and write somethingabout the Renaissance when
(07:44):
you're when you do a master'sand a doctorate in Italy.
I was beyond beyond the blessed,beyond grateful for the support
and the the grants that let mestudy in Italy that long.
So that I know that influenced alot, but I also lived in Yemen.
And I lived in uh I studiedArabic as a college student.
(08:05):
I tried first I tried a languageschool in Morocco, is the story.
But um growing up in NewOrleans, also I I had spoken
French from a very young age.
SPEAKER_00 (08:15):
Yeah.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (08:16):
So when you speak French in Morocco, you don't
have to learn Arabic if youunderstand.
And I was um, I think 18.
So I was 18, 19.
It was my freshman summer that Iwas trying to study Arabic in
Morocco and it didn't work.
And I I had I had a partner,boyfriend at the time who was
(08:39):
also, I met him in Morocco, buthe was studying language, and
his advisor had two options.
It was either, you know, Yemenor Lebanon.
And I said, Well, I speakFrench.
I'm just going to, I'm justgoing to really party in
Lebanon.
I don't, I don't think I'lllearn Arabic.
So with that, I I went to Yemenand I got to live there and
study there.
(09:00):
And to know uh Arabia, I mean,seeing firsthand the historical
sites.
I, you know, obviously I lovehistory, I love archaeology, I
love architecture.
I'm I love it.
Uh and so that that experience,that sort of firsthand love
really has been why I work inthe fields I work and do the
(09:22):
research that I do and spend mytime and do my writing and
produce the work that I produce.
Um, I think it's from a greatlove and knowledge of those
regions.
So I've been very lucky uh to beable to teach art history when I
get to the medieval era.
This is all just this is alljust the prelude to talk about
the medieval Muslim countries.
It was a golden age.
It was so gorgeous.
(09:42):
The architecture, thecraftsmanship, the science, the
the agricultural science, thejurisprudence.
My God, I really I think it wasa very highly developed
civilization, certainly morethan Western Europe at the time.
But um, but yes, and then uhthen there was a decline for
them.
For them, the Middle E themedieval period was a golden
age, and then there was, ofcourse, the modern era brought
(10:04):
some dark ages of colonial eras,you know, in Yemen specifically,
there were the Ottomans, uh, anduh in the south there was a
British, um I want to say crap,I don't it became a crown colony
at some point, but it itsstatus, yeah, it's its status
was was changing.
There's definitely a a Britishcolony in Aden.
(10:25):
And uh and then for many of thecountries, I'm not I'm not a
broad Middle Eastern specialist.
There are so many wonderfulhistorians on Egypt, Iraq.
I'm not anyway, I'm not I'm notan expert at all.
SPEAKER_01 (10:38):
But I'm just figuring you you said something
right at the beginning thereabout because you spoke French,
it was good to go to Yemen.
Do they speak French?
SPEAKER_02 (10:48):
Because I couldn't because we all speak French and
I could learn Arabic.
SPEAKER_01 (10:54):
Well, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (10:58):
And if I had gone to Beirut with all with I would
have a great time, but I don'tthink I'd learn Arabic.
SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
So that was the No, I I don't know.
I probably there's probablyseveral variants of the of it as
well.
But right, you know, you'reyou're the only person I've ever
spoken to who decided to you youactually moved to Yemen, right?
For a while.
SPEAKER_02 (11:17):
I was a so I was a summer student, you know.
I was in a summer school.
I was I want to say it was thesummer of my sophomore year in
college, yeah.
A long, a lot a short time ago,uh a long time ago.
And uh, but it was also thesummer that Hurricane Katrina
happened in New Orleans.
SPEAKER_01 (11:35):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (11:36):
So I I stayed longer.
Um, I didn't know Katrina hadhappened, and I remember I was
going to the internet cafe toregister for my my classes in
the fall.
I was I was already late.
Um anyway, not anyway.
Uh I was late to register forfall classes.
(11:58):
I was in Yemen and I remember Ihad been staying, I had become
very close with a family there,and I was talking to them and I
was mentioning that I was goingto, you know, I'll be leaving
soon because I'm going to theinternet cafe.
I need to register for my fallclasses, and I think I'll be
leaving soon.
Um and they said, What?
Your city doesn't exist.
(12:21):
You're, you know, your city'sunderwater.
What are you doing?
And I had no idea Katrina hadhappened.
And so they turned on thetelevision and it was Al
Jazeera, and it was the footageof the roofs, you know, of the
Ninth Ward underwater with thehelicopters.
And uh, and this is yeah, andum, and my family didn't
(12:41):
evacuate.
My mother and my brother havewere here.
Um, and it took them about a fewweeks to get out.
And in that time, you know myfriends in Yemen did superhuman
efforts, contacting theircontacts, trying to help in any
(13:02):
way.
It was this is, I mean, this isclearly I have a deep, deep love
for the country and the peoplefrom from how I was taken in,
how I was cared for.
But you know, three weeks in andyou don't hear from your family,
it was just assumed that mywhole family had died in Katrina
and I was adopted.
And I had my goodness, I I saw Ihad an opportunity to see uh the
(13:24):
country and the people in in insuch a beautiful way, and I have
such a love for them as like asa family, and it really, oh my
goodness, you know, Katrina isKatrina does takes New Orleans
people still for a loop, youknow, mentally with the memories
and everything, and thathappens.
So my love for Yemen, thecountry and all that, really, it
(13:45):
wasn't.
I I imagine if I'd went homelike a language student and just
like, oh, that was great.
Conjugated some verbs, I canspeak some Arabic.
I mean, you know, I I don'tthink I would have such a deep
connection to to the materialand to what I do now.
SPEAKER_01 (14:00):
In Yemen.
So you you you became very closeto people of Yemen then.
Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
What what you've you you saidhere brings up an important
point, and I lecture about thissometimes.
It's and a lot of people arounddo not understand um about how
people live in other parts ofthe world, you know, and this is
(14:22):
how they grew up.
Their families are close, theylive there because they want to
live there, their ancestors grewup there, and it doesn't matter
where it can be in the world.
If I if you mention Yemen tomaybe several people, yeah, I
used to l live in Yemen.
They said, What on earth do youwant to live there for?
Right?
They typically it's got it had afew problems, but every
(14:44):
country's got its problems.
But it gives you a deeperunderstanding of the culture of
those people, how they live.
And in most places I've been to,everywhere I've gone to, people
are generally friendly.
There's bad guys around, butgenerally speaking, it doesn't
matter where you are, andYemen's probably the same,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (15:00):
So people I mean, I'm insufferable at parties.
Yemen's spoiled me on somelevels that I that I don't think
Western countries have.
Um, I live in New Orleans, it'sa dangerous city.
I wouldn't walk around by myselfas a woman some places.
I would feel fear.
I I would feel fear.
You know, I'm I'm even fromhere.
(15:21):
I know how to carry myself, Iknow a certain comportment.
But um in Yemen, I I never feltthat fear of a dangerous society
or a crime-ridden city, youknow, um in Sanaa, in the
capital where I lived.
I I could I I could walk aroundby myself had unmolested, you
know, with great respect.
(15:42):
I I um it one of the biggestgifts was the why within the
family that I live, the wivesand daughters, after the great
tragedy of Katrina, I think, youknow, it takes time.
Who is who is this person?
Uh who that there's there's adefinitely a process of meeting
(16:04):
people, even though the familywas very active in diplomatic
circles, they received a lot ofguests.
Yeah, but I imagine for them itwas different having you know
embassy parties and havingreceiving a lot of guests, even
for a very social family to havea girl just start living with
you.
SPEAKER_01 (16:21):
So would you go back, would you go back to Yemen
today though?
SPEAKER_02 (16:25):
In a heartbeat.
The moment they stop airstrikingSana Airport, I would I would I
would go back in a heartbeat.
SPEAKER_01 (16:32):
There you go.
That's fantastic because youknow there's you can say that to
a lot of people and they go,why?
You know, and I I've had peoplesay to me several times, I've
said this is where I'm going,and and people say, Teesdale,
why do you keep going to thesethird world countries?
And I say to them, Do you knowwhere the term comes from?
(16:52):
Well, no, and what it means?
No, and why do you think it's athird world country?
Well, it's not these, no, thisis just a misused term.
But you people would besurprised if they actually went
to some of these placesthemselves, right?
And uh it's all educational.
And I might be surprised.
That's why I say to people, youneed to get out more, right?
SPEAKER_02 (17:11):
That's what we and I think and I think you're this
this work that you do, this thistraveling podcast is a beautiful
thing.
You know, I'm drawn to the genreof talking about travel.
I was interested, you know, thethe project I'm working on right
now, the book project, is justreading, you know, a 16th
century traveler's account andhearing about the travelers.
(17:31):
So I think that you know, I Ilove, I'm very curious about the
world and different cultures.
I mean, now we have look a shoutout to the age of of trash
reality TV series produced indifferent countries with the
same format.
You can just compare.
We're in a golden era ofcomparative cultural
anthropology, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (17:53):
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (17:54):
But having the experiences instead of just
instead of just watching througha screen or reading a book on
your armchair, you know, havingthat firsthand that's formative.
I think that shapes and and andbetters humanity, dare I say.
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
Yeah, exactly.
I know you you mentioned earlieron also also we're talking about
Renaissance.
You said you you did you live inItaly, by the way?
SPEAKER_02 (18:15):
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (18:15):
I uh Whereabouts I because I don't remember going
to I I I've done the big threebefore Venice, Rome, and
Florence.
And I love Florence.
That was a super place.
Um, but where where were you inItaly then?
SPEAKER_02 (18:27):
Wow.
The background is that myparents met in Rome before I
mean long before I was myparents met in Rome.
They were they were both fellowsat the academy.
They we we have amulti-generational to Italy.
So I had I had that going forme.
That probably explains um thechronology now.
(18:48):
So when I was 16, my first um myfirst trip was as a student
exchange program.
I lived with a family inSardinia at the age of 16.
That was crazy.
That was you know, an exchangeprogram where you're on the
beaches of Sardinia and goingout.
I'm a 16-year-old girl.
I had siblings that were oldertaking me out Italian clubbing
(19:08):
every night, beach clubbing.
It was my summer I was 16 inSardinia was a great time.
And the next summer, um, I Ididn't live with a family, but I
was enrolled in um a technicalart history school.
It was a fresco making school.
It was a lot of laying plasteron bricks, turns out.
Yeah, turns out I acquired someskills.
(19:29):
I should be using it for homedecor.
But um, I went to fresco schoolat 17 and I lived in Florence
that summer by myself.
And then um I returned and Itook a gap year.
I lived in Florence, I worked ina leather shop on the Arno
River.
Um, that was that wasinteresting.
(19:49):
And then I had um I starteduniversity um back home.
My I my my parents were faculty,so I took a year in Florence,
came back, uh, studied hard, andI by the end of university, I
was able to win a master'sfellowship with Syracuse
(20:09):
University back to Florence.
And it was fantastic, it waswonderful.
And then I spent two years againin Florence doing my master's
writing about um Renaissancegrottos and the moving
sculptures that were installedin them, which I thought were
fantastic.
And nobody knows that there wassculpture in the Renaissance
(20:29):
that was animated, and so Iwrote my master's thesis on
that, and then I got a um uhprize from the European Research
Council to pursue my PhD inVenice at uh the University
Kaffosgry, and that was threeyears in Venice, and then I
returned home in in 2018.
(20:52):
I received my PhD, I beganteaching at Tulane, and I um and
I began my professional academiccareer after that.
SPEAKER_01 (21:01):
Oh, that's that's fantastic.
And you you know what is it wasgreat?
You started this travel thing ata young age, right?
Which which is and this travelbook has been with you all your
life so far.
All my life, even before.
SPEAKER_02 (21:14):
I mean, I lived for I lived for family trips.
My gosh.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_01 (21:18):
It's it's it's fantastic you've done that.
And uh, you know, I wish peoplewould encourage their their kids
to do it more.
Just get out and see the world.
SPEAKER_02 (21:28):
I am doing it.
I I recommended the old program.
Actually, if you have anylisteners, um, there's a great
I'm an alumni, so but it'scalled Youth for Understanding.
And I have um another mom friendwhose daughter was a teenager
and was in that that age rangeand was really interested in
Norway.
And I said, she can go live inNorway because they have um I I
(21:49):
went to their website and it'smore expanded than it was in
2000.
I did it in okay, fulldisclosure.
I was I got exceptionalpermission at the age of 14 to
go to a French.
Exchange and that developed mymy French language even more
because we had you know we'renot native New Orleanians, we're
not native, you know, LouisianaFrench speakers.
(22:10):
I'm not that, but from traveland doing that exchange at 14, I
became fluent in French, and umthen so that was the France
program, and then when I was 16,I did their Italy program.
But I took, you know, when I wastelling my my friend about this,
I went to their website, andthey have you know so much more
countries than they had in myday, and it's just an incredible
(22:32):
way.
And I don't know, maybe, maybe,maybe I'll send my daughter,
we'll see what she thinks.
SPEAKER_01 (22:36):
But what about the French?
You know, when I started highschool in England, it was
mandatory for us to learnFrench.
SPEAKER_02 (22:43):
You must.
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
And so I did English and we did French, and people
ask them why, but it was that'sthe way it was back then.
I wouldn't say that's the way itis.
SPEAKER_02 (22:49):
That's the way in my daughter's school, but they had
the choice of Spanish.
SPEAKER_01 (22:52):
So yeah, interesting, but uh it's all
good.
And so what how many languagesdo you speak now?
SPEAKER_02 (22:59):
Well, look, I speak three well.
Um put me back in Sana for putme back in Sanaa for a week or
two, and and Arabic, I think,would be up there.
Um, I can be social in a couplelanguages, but I speak French,
English, and Italian like anormal person.
SPEAKER_01 (23:18):
Yeah, I I've got you beaten there.
I speak five languages.
SPEAKER_02 (23:21):
Oh, fantastic.
No, I love I love I love that.
I'm just joking with you.
SPEAKER_01 (23:25):
I when I say that to people, really, I said they said
what?
English, American, Canadian,Australian, and the language of
New Zealand.
And oh stop that, you know, butbut it but it's the accents and
dialects I've got used to.
I've been living in the US allhalf my life, so I can speak the
language now, you know, the theuh say the right words at the
right time, if you know what Imean.
(23:46):
But anyway, that's just uhjoking.
SPEAKER_02 (23:48):
There's a great phrase, there's a great
descriptor of Tibet, you know,every valley has its own
dialect, and every lama has hisown religion, you know, it's a
description of Tibet in terms oflike the valleys and the
dialects, and you know, you canyou can understand, you can
understand language in the grandscheme that way.
SPEAKER_01 (24:08):
Yeah, but you know, it's we're lucky now um that
most of the world speaksEnglish, to be honest with you.
And even I think even when thekids start school in uh China
now, they they learn English.
SPEAKER_02 (24:22):
Of course they do.
SPEAKER_01 (24:23):
Yeah, and I think uh it's good.
So it's it makes it easier forpeople like me to to to fit into
places, but there's some placesthat don't speak it a whole lot,
you know, which which you know Ijust am out of time, but you
know realistically, I I I'm notfluid in French, I know the odd
word, but I couldn't hold aconversation.
(24:43):
That was a long time ago, soit's just basically English.
And if I went north of theborder in Scotland, could I
understand sound a Scottishperson?
Probably unlikely, becausedialect there, I don't know.
But anyway, it's all good.
So when you do um well, I got aquestion about when you call
South Arabia, uh when you doyour research, what's class to
(25:06):
South Arabia as opposed to SaudiArabia?
SPEAKER_02 (25:10):
My goodness, Saudi Arabia is a modern invention.
Saudi Arabia is uh didn't existbefore the you know the the the
20th century.
SPEAKER_01 (25:20):
Yeah, right, yeah.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (25:21):
Right.
Okay, so that's a very shorttimeline uh of the history of
Arabia.
And the okay, so in our Westernperspective, if we're just going
on European knowledge, theRomans had three Arabias, right?
There is Arabia Nabataea, wherethe Nabataeans and Petra and the
traders were at the eastern endof the Mediterranean, right?
(25:43):
Yeah, and then there was ArabiaDeserta, the desert tribes.
SPEAKER_01 (25:48):
Yeah, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02 (25:50):
And then there in the south was what they called
Arabia Felix because it washappy, because it had
agriculture, it was green, ithad civilization, it had a
system of writing, it had thewealth, some of the wealthiest
kingdoms, the kingdoms inantiquity that were selling all
the incense burned to theEgyptians, all the incense
burned in every Greek, Egyptian,Roman temple ever in antiquity,
(26:13):
who received the the prophetsfrom that trade, those were the
South Arabian kingdoms that aremuch older than than the advent
of Islam, you know, that go backto there, you know, there's
concurrent, there's concurrentrelationships with the
Mesopotamian kings, you know,the kings of uh Assyria and the
(26:34):
ancient Mesopotamian record umwere known to them.
Same with ancient Egypt.
And so there's such a a muchlonger history in South Arabia
or Arabia Felix.
Um, but in antiquity, aroundfrom the first millennium BC on,
there was a concept of Yemen asa region.
SPEAKER_01 (26:55):
Right.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (26:56):
Right.
So that concept of a regionactually extends a bit into the
southern borders of present-daySaudi Arabia.
It's been a point of contention.
It has been there have beenactive skirmishes, you know,
between Sada and the border.
Um, the bord the southern borderof Saudi Arabia is uh a
contentious issue, which is whyit sometimes is contentious to
(27:18):
speak about historical Yemen.
SPEAKER_01 (27:22):
You know what?
What you're saying there is thisthis stuff or land grabs and
ownership of land goes oncenturies ago, many centuries
ago, you know, at the beginningof the first century and before
that, it even's happened in theCaribbean a lot.
But there's humans, there's beenon there, it even happens today,
(27:44):
you know.
SPEAKER_02 (27:45):
My goodness, that's the history of humans is land
grabs.
All human history can be landgrabs, migration and land grabs.
SPEAKER_01 (27:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
To be human is to land.
I'm sorry, I'm getting toocynical.
I've studied history way toomuch.
SPEAKER_01 (27:58):
Yeah, it's it's it's it's unbelievable.
Some sometimes uh well, a lot oftimes it's hostile as well.
Why that that's my thing aboutthis let the people live the the
way they want to.
Let's not waste human life, youknow, by trying to take a piece
of land that you think you own.
So uh I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (28:15):
It's uh My dear Malcolm, he who owns the land
controls its resources.
So if you let humans live andlive peaceful lives, you don't
ever get to control and profitoff of the land's resources.
And I think that is history in anutshell.
SPEAKER_01 (28:29):
Uh it probably is, but unless you talk to the
people in a civilized way, youmight be able to share and
participate.
I don't know.
Is it there's but you know, mesaying that is probably doesn't
play too well today, but anyway,it's just I mean, it's it's it
happens unfortunately, and uhthere'll always be conflict in
the world, and you know, alwayshas been, always will be.
(28:50):
So to be honest with you, we'restill alive, that's the main
thing, you know.
I mean, we've we've been I mean,have you ever been to a place um
in your travels that was havingissues at the time, political or
conflict?
SPEAKER_02 (29:06):
Oh yeah.
Um well in the summer of 2005,when I was still a student in
Yemen, um, it was I I was livingin a converted tower palace in
the historic.
It's a UNESCO Historic Center,Sana.
The buildings are some of themare over a thousand years old,
maybe older, but they have suchan active maintenance culture.
(29:27):
The brick gets you know patchedup and pointed, like they keep
uh airstrikes notwithstanding,uh, which there have been many
targeting the historic center inthese old palaces and just the
you know being uh being shelleduh will damage them, but in all
conditions, all conditions beingequal, um, they've been kept up
(29:49):
for generations through the samefamilies in a lot of cases.
So I was saying one of these oldtower palaces, it was now a
hotel, and um the government, Irecall, had raised the prices of
staples, um, flour, sugar, youknow, staples, but salaries had
not been raised commensurately.
(30:11):
Before this, um we saw uh therewas civil unrest around the um
the more modern areas of Sana.
There's a historic center, andthen there's like a diplomatic
neighborhood.
Um, they have a huge, beautiful,very modern showpiece mosque.
Um, and then there's sort ofsuburbs that sprawl.
(30:34):
When you look at old photographsof the capital Sanaa, there's a
beautiful beautiful walled city.
It looks like a storybook,right?
That like the most walled citiesthat that lasted later than
most.
In our memory, we havephotographs, very limited
photographs of it with its wallsintacts, but um, it just is
urban sprawl all through thevalley now.
(30:56):
And um, so those neighborhoodssee a lot uh more life and
activity than the historiccenter, right?
So there were Western chains.
Uh there's there's a pizza,there's Pizza Hut, there's KFC.
Um, oh gosh.
I I think I got food poisoningfrom like a Bugs Bunny themed
(31:17):
Western chicken restaurantcalled Funny Bunny.
Anyway, funny bunny is notoriousnow in my memory.
Um, but we were sitting with theunrest.
I remember being on the rooftopof the hotel, you know, with the
the management and the it was asecurity thing.
And we were sitting there andwatching explosions go off in
the further parts of the city.
(31:39):
And I saw this is this is a I'mhorrible at fast food
restaurants because I always amlike, one day I saw a KFC go up
and smoke.
And I did, yeah, because some ofthe Western chains were
targeted.
And uh so from the rooftop, Isaw, yeah, no, from the rooftop,
you hear, you know, I took look,we took my daughter to Universal
(32:00):
Studios, and there's like uh,I'm gonna ruin the name because
I don't watch the movies, butJason Bourne, I want to say,
there's like a Middle Eastern,an American in a Middle Eastern
terrorist situation withexplosions going off, and like
it's very thrilling.
You get to live the life ofbeing an American spy, I guess,
in a Middle Eastern country withlike bombs going off.
But let me tell you, the soundof the real ones is like deeper,
(32:21):
shakes the horizon.
And that, you know, when the warwas happening and real bombs
were were going off and beingdropped on them, it's like it's
horrendous when you have anunderstanding of what the
magnitude of those not theDisney, not the Universal Studio
shows we see as Americans, youknow.
SPEAKER_01 (32:34):
So well, I know that's uh I can't imagine that.
I mean, I I remember being inKiev in the Ukraine, the end of
2021, right before the conflictstarted there.
And I, you know, based on what Isaw there, it's a fantastic
place.
And now it's had the crap bombedout of it.
It's it's a real shame, youknow.
Well, you know, thinking lovelythe buildings architectural
(32:57):
either wonderful.
SPEAKER_02 (32:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
No, it's I remember having avery distinct feeling.
It was 2005 I was there, so wewere in the Americans were in
Iraq in what 2003, I want tosay, was the around that time,
the toppling of Saddam Hussein,dare I?
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
Oh no, no, I think that goes back to um you you
yeah, it probably well I wasthinking was it was recent, it
was around.
SPEAKER_02 (33:25):
It was recent history.
I mean, I I'm an earlymodernist.
Don't ask me specific years ofrecent history, but you know,
we're we're we're going offvibes.
But it has only very recentlythat there was an American
presence in Iraq.
Yeah, and that had been felt.
(33:45):
And in Yemen, it hadn't therewas unrest that political
agreements with that presidenthad um had opened up the
exploitation of their ownresources.
It was there was a feeling thatYemen had been impoverishing its
own people at the expense ofsigning on to you know global
(34:05):
world economic agreements andthat it was being dominated in
this in by this way by the West.
And they're very in the north,the north has never there were
times where it was part of theOttoman Empire, but the Ottoman
Empire was always like anoutpost, and there was still the
path, there was always anindigenous power in North Yemen
(34:27):
of a line of imams that werenever conquered, you know, other
Muslim countries all around theMediterranean basin, Iraq, it
was a sense of of Muslimcountries had been mostly
colonized and conquered, andYemen, uh one of the great, one
of the great uh nicknames ofYemen that they take great pride
in that is that it's thegraveyard of invaders.
SPEAKER_01 (34:48):
Oh, really?
SPEAKER_02 (34:49):
Right, right, right.
And you know, looking around, itit was a time capsule too,
because it hadn't beencolonized, it had it's it
hadn't, you know, there weren'tthese great Hausman boulevards.
It wasn't this, it hadn't beenEuropeanized ever.
And there was almost a sense ofa medieval, like the medieval
and and the unaltered.
(35:12):
And it was just, I rememberthinking, oh, I hope this lasts,
I hope it's untouched, I hope,you know, and then when war came
to it, you know, the airstrikesof the recent years uh from
Western munitions from outside,I mean uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, the
inevitability, the inevitabilityof resources and land grabs.
SPEAKER_01 (35:31):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, you've been to afew Islamic countries, right?
So you're usually prettyfamiliar with the way they live
there.
What what what is Yemen stillyou like your favorite?
SPEAKER_02 (35:44):
Oh, it's another world.
Yeah, it's uh it's on anotherlevel.
Uh truly and truly.
The the quality of life, the thesense of also um I lived I lived
in in extraordinary privilege inSanaa, the capital, which is you
know, renowned as this veryrefined city of poetry and tower
(36:07):
palaces, and just really arefined sense of living, um, the
dresses, the parties, the theincense, the bahur, the smells,
the just the joy.
Like it's a it's a romanticcity.
Yeah.
And it's um it's kind of likeit's kind of like how New
(36:30):
Orleanians like to see ourselvesduring carnival, like, oh, we're
so refined, we have our balls,we have our genteel, like we
know how to live.
Like there's a refinement oflifestyle in like the finer
things in Sana that aligns verywell with like my New Orleans
Mardi Gras sense.
And it was it blew my mind.
(36:51):
It blew my mind.
I haven't lived, I haven't livedlike I've lived in my Sana
Arabian Princess chapter sincelike you can only live like that
there.
But I know that show you knowthat there is extreme poverty in
that country.
I mean, I wasn't living in arural scenario of ext, there is
extreme poverty, of course.
You know, there's there they getthey receive refugees from East
(37:12):
Africa.
There is, you know, a lot moreuncomfortable.
I had I had a beautiful, a crazybeautiful experience in Yemen.
SPEAKER_01 (37:20):
So yeah, no, there you go.
You'll remember that for therest of the life.
Did you ever spend spent time inIndonesia, which is uh the the
world's largest Muslim country?
SPEAKER_02 (37:27):
You know, I would like to.
There are so many connections.
Um, I I'm actually writing a asection about the European
traveler encountered a livingSufi saint that spawned these
massive communities of faithfulin the Malaysia as well as
Indonesia.
Yeah and at one point thedescendants of it's Al-Aidarus,
(37:49):
he's a line of the Hadrami Sufi,um, line of of Islamic mysticism
at the time, and at one pointhad their own kingdom in uh on
the Malay Peninsula, and Ihaven't been.
That's that's I would love to.
I visited, I visited my uncle inhigh school, he lived in
Singapore, but I did not get Idid not really absorb that that
(38:11):
aspect of the culture at all.
SPEAKER_01 (38:13):
No, I I just got I'll be in um Indonesia later on
this year in November, and uhI've stayed in Bali for a while,
then it's just gonna camp out ofthe jungle there for a while and
then uh be moving probably intoum go to Komodo and up through
uh the Indonesian islandstowards uh Singapore.
I used to live in Singaporeactually, so um great, wonderful
(38:34):
love to go back there again.
So Lily, I'm a bit older thanyou, so I mean I'm I'm I've got
this.
I'm I'm I'm still doing it whileI can.
You've got plenty of years to todo whatever.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (38:45):
This is a zoom filter.
SPEAKER_01 (38:48):
I know, yeah, as we say in Britain, I'm an old
geezer, you know, but that'sthat's that's all right.
I'm doing it, it keeps me going,you know, and uh gotta stay stay
around here.
So um where are you off to next,by the way?
SPEAKER_02 (39:02):
I'm going to San Francisco after Mardi Gras for a
conference, and that is the thenext travel on my on my
calendar.
I have never been to SanFrancisco, and I'm quite looking
forward to uh the RenaissanceSociety of America conference.
But that's it.
That's it.
No, I um I don't have I don'thave far-flung travel lined up
at the moment.
Um I I have c I have a coupleupcoming papers.
(39:26):
I'm traveling to theuniversities in the States, but
no, no, no.
We'll see what we'll see what2026 brings.
SPEAKER_01 (39:34):
Yeah, it's a long time.
I'm I know my itinerary ispretty well booked up for for
this year, but that's that's allright.
I always have to have somethingto look forward to.
But actually, your your website,what's the official site name of
your website?
SPEAKER_02 (39:47):
Oh, please don't ask me that.
It's my Google site.
I've I oh okay, God.
SPEAKER_01 (39:51):
When this gets posted, then I'll put the
address on the on the post whenit's a people.
SPEAKER_02 (39:57):
Thank you.
No, no, it doesn't have a snazzydomain name yet, but it is early
days that I even have a website.
SPEAKER_01 (40:04):
So okay, but it it looks good, and you you write
books as well, and there's awhole range of information,
articles, paper, podcasts, it'sa whole range of stuff there.
So um, I I looked at it briefly,but I look at it a bit more um
when you get a chance.
So it's it's sort ofinteresting.
So all about you is on there.
So is there anything uh ifpeople want to get hold of you
(40:27):
for chit chat or anything likethat, or got questions, or are
intrigued by what you say, whichI figure they must be, and um
are you open for people to reachout to you and say, please tell
me this and what you recommend Ido?
You know, it's you know thattype of information.
How would they how would theyget hold of you if you for your
(40:47):
exercise?
SPEAKER_02 (40:48):
Um on my website there's a contact page.
Um, and I do have a repres arepresentative.
Um you would talk to uh NigelHetherington at Past Preservers
Agency, and his contact is on mywebsite in terms of uh being
able to receive.
Are you aciding me?
It's Nigel Past Preservers.
Yes, do you know him?
SPEAKER_01 (41:08):
I know him.
SPEAKER_02 (41:09):
Oh, anywhere you go.
He's doing a great work.
SPEAKER_01 (41:13):
Yeah, I don't know.
I I may speak to to uh Mo fromthat company, but uh anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (41:18):
Yes, yes, no, that is that is it's a small world,
isn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (41:22):
Yeah.
Uh but but you know, it's sohave you got anything to you
like to add and um to to thechit chat here or you want to
say anything?
SPEAKER_02 (41:32):
Oh no, I mean uh we have I feel like we could just
exchange travel stories uh intothe on, you know.
I think that between the two ofus, there there's uh probably a
lot of material.
I'm so curious about yourupcoming travels to Indonesia.
I'd actually love to be loopedin to the details.
(41:52):
And if I have any anything ofinterest, I'll send it over to
you too.
But you know, it's no, it's it'swonderful.
I love talking to fellowtravelers who have that
curiosity for just how how widethe world is.
You know, every time I travel,I'm in an airport and they're
always busy and people arealways rushing.
And the thought always comesthat in every airport at this
(42:15):
moment, everywhere, it's filledwith people rushing, and you
just think, you know, like howhow truly expansive we are, and
like how and how active ourlittle human hive is running
around at all times and how bigit is and how vast it is, and
we're always just seeing a very,a very small screen, you know.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (42:35):
Well, no, you know, you travel.
I mean, we can you can haveproblems.
I I was true for one, peoplehave their luggage lost, the
weather, plane breaks down, allthat it's gonna happen
periodically if you travelsomewhere.
So just expect you have to suckit up and move on.
It's just for a short period oftime, but it's always
worthwhile, you know.
So uh but so keep on doing it,uh Lily.
(42:57):
But um keep in touch as well,you know.
Whatever you don't you know toget hold of me.
Then we'll do another podcastone day, and uh and uh I mean I
nearly died.
SPEAKER_02 (43:07):
I mean, I had had a we can talk near death
experiences traveling, you know.
I mean I'm sure there's there'sroom for that.
SPEAKER_01 (43:17):
We could talk probably for a very, very long
time.
SPEAKER_02 (43:19):
Oh, but it's look, it is so nice meeting you, and
your podcast is wonderful.
I'm so glad you're doing thework and bringing the world, you
know, to all your listeners.
So I think it's wonderful work.
SPEAKER_01 (43:29):
Well, well, thank you very much.
Um, that's Dr.
Lily Philson, everybody.
Um, thanks for coming on and uhhaving me.
Enjoy New Orleans and uh theupcoming Mardi Gras.
SPEAKER_02 (43:42):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (43:43):
Um enjoy that, and uh we'll talk some other time,
okay?
SPEAKER_02 (43:46):
Great, it was my honor.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (43:48):
Okay, that's it for this episode of the Travel
Addict Podcast, where we chasesunsets, flirt with danger, and
occasionally make questionablechoices in foreign lands.
Until next time, may yourflights be on time, and your
travel stories just scandalousenough to leave a few details
out.
Check out Malcolm's websites atmalcolmteesdale.com and
(44:10):
travelingenglishman.com.
Safe travels and enjoy life,everyone.
Welcome to the Travel Addict Podcast.
Your host and fellow traveladdict, Malcolm Teesdale, is
here to take you into the heartof the world's most fascinating
destinations.
He talks with passionateglobetrotters and fearless
explorers who share their wildjourneys and cultural insights
from around the world.
Or sometimes he just chats byhimself, describing enriching
(00:21):
travel experiences.
So buckle up and let's hit theroad because the world is
calling and we're answering.
SPEAKER_01 (00:28):
Hello everybody, Malcolm Tist out here, the
travel addict.
Hope you're doing all right outthere.
Where I am right now, we're justrecovering from ISIS snowstorm,
which um being in North Carolinais a bit rare, but uh we're
recovering.
But on the line today, on thephone, or on the I should say
the podcast, is Dr.
(00:49):
Lily Tilson, and um PhD, ofcourse, and uh she's here to
talk to me about somethingrather different, and I love
that.
So uh Lily, how are you?
SPEAKER_02 (01:03):
Hey, thank you for having me.
It's really a delight to joinyour podcast.
I'm I'm a bit of a traveladdict, and we'll we'll go into
uh some of the areas, I imagine,soon, but I'm I'm really
delighted to take part andcontribute to to the collection
you're making.
SPEAKER_01 (01:18):
Yeah, we'll get into the travel bits in um a little
while.
Now, you know, I've read yourprofile, and I know you explore
renaissance innovation, uh,Arabian history and global
technologies, some of which willreshape the world.
Uh, you're a historian, author,filmmaker, and professor.
So my first question is, how'dyou find time to sleep?
SPEAKER_02 (01:42):
Oh, actually, look, I'm also a mother, and I I'm
from this, I live in NewOrleans.
I'm I'm a so this is a quotethat actually I used in an
interview successfully.
Um, another mother told me,Well, you know, I'm less
southern than some, but shesaid, Well, if you want
something done, you give it to abusy woman, and then walked off.
(02:03):
It was the perfect, it was theperfect delivery, and that's
what no, really, and that's umthat was a pearl, and that's
what I think about.
So, and it's true.
The more one lives, the thetruer it gets.
You know, if you want somethingdone, give it to a busy woman.
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Yeah, yeah, got it.
Where were you originally born,though?
SPEAKER_02 (02:20):
I was born in New Orleans, the only the only one
in my family.
SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
Really?
So you're still there?
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
No, I am still there uh with my with my mother and
daughter, actually.
I'm quite blessed.
SPEAKER_01 (02:30):
Well, great.
I mean, I I've been to whenespecially when I lived in the
Destin area, it's about afour-hour drive, I think, to New
Orleans when I lived there andthere.
And but that was many years ago.
And obviously, when I havefriends come over from and
relatives come over from acrossthe pond from England, I always
used to take them to NewOrleans, see what they think
about it, and it was alwaysalways to be fun.
(02:52):
What's it like these days?
SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
Well, we're gearing up for Mardi Gras, so it is
still it's still very cold, butthe first parades roll tomorrow
night.
Well, there have been there havebeen some, but the ones that
roll down the main St.
Charles Avenue are startingtonight.
Traffic's a nightmare, they putblockades, uh it but we're it's
very, you know, you know, andthe feeling that most people get
(03:17):
right on Christmas Eve thatsomething great's going to
happen.
We get it soon after, and thenit lasts for about two weeks of
parades and fun.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
How far away do you live from all the action?
SPEAKER_02 (03:29):
Um well, I live in an in an area that's close to a
park that's on the same paradeline.
Oh, yeah.
So I could take the streetcar.
If I if I could take thestreetcar, um perhaps five or
six blocks from my house, rideit down to the start of the
parade.
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Yeah, it's a unique place, no doubt about that.
All right, let's get into the uhthe important stuff here.
Yeah.
You do a lot of things, but whenwhen one of the things you do is
explore modern uh sorry, you youresearch on early modern Europe
um and also renaissance.
Um what what do you class asmodern Europe?
SPEAKER_02 (04:06):
Oh, that's a very big question.
Because we see, you know, ashistorians, we look for what
what are markers of our modern,so what makes modern.
That's such a big question.
Um modern Europe.
I think giving the historian theanswer, it's when when we look
(04:26):
at medieval culture and we seethat that's not even just its
own thing, that's sometimesdistorted memories from
antiquity, sometimes it's morerecent local traditions.
And then modern Europe, I think,as a feature, the the classic
answer is looking at RenaissanceFlorence and how you know new
ideas were circulated and thenwere held in common by the
(04:50):
courts in continental Europe.
And then England, a bit, a bit,you know, later to the game, but
still participating, but notcertainly not more of a
recipient of a lot of ideas andseeing it manifest in in English
ways, like the EnglishRenaissance.
Um yeah, I think when we startto see the the coherent of a
(05:12):
culture and the markers of ideasthat are still current, you
know, what what makes a modernsociety, what makes is it a
political system, is itdemocracy, is it, you know,
there are a lot of questionsabout what what modernity, what
modernity is.
SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
Yeah, I just wondered, I thought in theory
the like medieval era wasbetween the fifth and the 15th
centuries, and it was class asmodern after that.
But you know, I I recently I wasin Europe and there's some
great, lovely places out there.
I went to Till in Estonia, butthe whole city center is all med
still medieval today, and it'sit's wonderful, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (05:50):
It is wonderful.
I um so I'm working on my secondbook right now, and a lot of it
looks at uh what's called likean early modern travelogue
because it's an Italiantraveler, but who goes through
Arabia, who goes through Yemen,a lot has been written about
what he wrote about India, hegoes to Indonesia, um, claims as
far as anyway, there is morecontroversial the further he
(06:12):
goes.
But so much of the ideas andlike his storytelling, and this
is it was published in 15, youknow, 1510, so early 16th
century, but so much of it iscarryovers of medieval ideas,
like there's cannibals, youknow, in the in the Red Sea
area.
There's um, you know, some somevery problematic medieval
(06:34):
attitudes, of course, to Muslimsand and you know, the others.
And there's a lot, there's a lotto say about like race and how
Europeans saw others that wasstill very medieval.
But um, here is something thatliterary historians have held up
as like uh the first of themodern travel logs that you get
(06:54):
in Renaissance service, youknow, travel lighting, you know,
Thomas, sorry, travel writing,Thomas Koriate, and all all all
the the whole genre thatexisted.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:06):
I'm surprised that when you when we talked about
the medieval area, I neverconsidered um Muslim areas or
that area of the world, likeArabia or anywhere else for that
matter, but obviously it'saffected them as well.
All right.
SPEAKER_02 (07:22):
Well, it's it's such a different narrative in times
because so I imagine we'll talkto a lot of my work is informed
by where I've been lucky enoughto live and travel.
Um, I did my graduate studies inItaly, so I was in a great
position to have access toarchives and be able to really
research and write somethingabout the Renaissance when
(07:44):
you're when you do a master'sand a doctorate in Italy.
I was beyond beyond the blessed,beyond grateful for the support
and the the grants that let mestudy in Italy that long.
So that I know that influenced alot, but I also lived in Yemen.
And I lived in uh I studiedArabic as a college student.
(08:05):
I tried first I tried a languageschool in Morocco, is the story.
But um growing up in NewOrleans, also I I had spoken
French from a very young age.
SPEAKER_00 (08:15):
Yeah.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (08:16):
So when you speak French in Morocco, you don't
have to learn Arabic if youunderstand.
And I was um, I think 18.
So I was 18, 19.
It was my freshman summer that Iwas trying to study Arabic in
Morocco and it didn't work.
And I I had I had a partner,boyfriend at the time who was
(08:39):
also, I met him in Morocco, buthe was studying language, and
his advisor had two options.
It was either, you know, Yemenor Lebanon.
And I said, Well, I speakFrench.
I'm just going to, I'm justgoing to really party in
Lebanon.
I don't, I don't think I'lllearn Arabic.
So with that, I I went to Yemenand I got to live there and
study there.
(09:00):
And to know uh Arabia, I mean,seeing firsthand the historical
sites.
I, you know, obviously I lovehistory, I love archaeology, I
love architecture.
I'm I love it.
Uh and so that that experience,that sort of firsthand love
really has been why I work inthe fields I work and do the
(09:22):
research that I do and spend mytime and do my writing and
produce the work that I produce.
Um, I think it's from a greatlove and knowledge of those
regions.
So I've been very lucky uh to beable to teach art history when I
get to the medieval era.
This is all just this is alljust the prelude to talk about
the medieval Muslim countries.
It was a golden age.
It was so gorgeous.
(09:42):
The architecture, thecraftsmanship, the science, the
the agricultural science, thejurisprudence.
My God, I really I think it wasa very highly developed
civilization, certainly morethan Western Europe at the time.
But um, but yes, and then uhthen there was a decline for
them.
For them, the Middle E themedieval period was a golden
age, and then there was, ofcourse, the modern era brought
(10:04):
some dark ages of colonial eras,you know, in Yemen specifically,
there were the Ottomans, uh, anduh in the south there was a
British, um I want to say crap,I don't it became a crown colony
at some point, but it itsstatus, yeah, it's its status
was was changing.
There's definitely a a Britishcolony in Aden.
(10:25):
And uh and then for many of thecountries, I'm not I'm not a
broad Middle Eastern specialist.
There are so many wonderfulhistorians on Egypt, Iraq.
I'm not anyway, I'm not I'm notan expert at all.
SPEAKER_01 (10:38):
But I'm just figuring you you said something
right at the beginning thereabout because you spoke French,
it was good to go to Yemen.
Do they speak French?
SPEAKER_02 (10:48):
Because I couldn't because we all speak French and
I could learn Arabic.
SPEAKER_01 (10:54):
Well, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (10:58):
And if I had gone to Beirut with all with I would
have a great time, but I don'tthink I'd learn Arabic.
SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
So that was the No, I I don't know.
I probably there's probablyseveral variants of the of it as
well.
But right, you know, you'reyou're the only person I've ever
spoken to who decided to you youactually moved to Yemen, right?
For a while.
SPEAKER_02 (11:17):
I was a so I was a summer student, you know.
I was in a summer school.
I was I want to say it was thesummer of my sophomore year in
college, yeah.
A long, a lot a short time ago,uh a long time ago.
And uh, but it was also thesummer that Hurricane Katrina
happened in New Orleans.
SPEAKER_01 (11:35):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (11:36):
So I I stayed longer.
Um, I didn't know Katrina hadhappened, and I remember I was
going to the internet cafe toregister for my my classes in
the fall.
I was I was already late.
Um anyway, not anyway.
Uh I was late to register forfall classes.
(11:58):
I was in Yemen and I remember Ihad been staying, I had become
very close with a family there,and I was talking to them and I
was mentioning that I was goingto, you know, I'll be leaving
soon because I'm going to theinternet cafe.
I need to register for my fallclasses, and I think I'll be
leaving soon.
Um and they said, What?
Your city doesn't exist.
(12:21):
You're, you know, your city'sunderwater.
What are you doing?
And I had no idea Katrina hadhappened.
And so they turned on thetelevision and it was Al
Jazeera, and it was the footageof the roofs, you know, of the
Ninth Ward underwater with thehelicopters.
And uh, and this is yeah, andum, and my family didn't
(12:41):
evacuate.
My mother and my brother havewere here.
Um, and it took them about a fewweeks to get out.
And in that time, you know myfriends in Yemen did superhuman
efforts, contacting theircontacts, trying to help in any
(13:02):
way.
It was this is, I mean, this isclearly I have a deep, deep love
for the country and the peoplefrom from how I was taken in,
how I was cared for.
But you know, three weeks in andyou don't hear from your family,
it was just assumed that mywhole family had died in Katrina
and I was adopted.
And I had my goodness, I I saw Ihad an opportunity to see uh the
(13:24):
country and the people in in insuch a beautiful way, and I have
such a love for them as like asa family, and it really, oh my
goodness, you know, Katrina isKatrina does takes New Orleans
people still for a loop, youknow, mentally with the memories
and everything, and thathappens.
So my love for Yemen, thecountry and all that, really, it
(13:45):
wasn't.
I I imagine if I'd went homelike a language student and just
like, oh, that was great.
Conjugated some verbs, I canspeak some Arabic.
I mean, you know, I I don'tthink I would have such a deep
connection to to the materialand to what I do now.
SPEAKER_01 (14:00):
In Yemen.
So you you you became very closeto people of Yemen then.
Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
What what you've you you saidhere brings up an important
point, and I lecture about thissometimes.
It's and a lot of people arounddo not understand um about how
people live in other parts ofthe world, you know, and this is
(14:22):
how they grew up.
Their families are close, theylive there because they want to
live there, their ancestors grewup there, and it doesn't matter
where it can be in the world.
If I if you mention Yemen tomaybe several people, yeah, I
used to l live in Yemen.
They said, What on earth do youwant to live there for?
Right?
They typically it's got it had afew problems, but every
(14:44):
country's got its problems.
But it gives you a deeperunderstanding of the culture of
those people, how they live.
And in most places I've been to,everywhere I've gone to, people
are generally friendly.
There's bad guys around, butgenerally speaking, it doesn't
matter where you are, andYemen's probably the same,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (15:00):
So people I mean, I'm insufferable at parties.
Yemen's spoiled me on somelevels that I that I don't think
Western countries have.
Um, I live in New Orleans, it'sa dangerous city.
I wouldn't walk around by myselfas a woman some places.
I would feel fear.
I I would feel fear.
You know, I'm I'm even fromhere.
(15:21):
I know how to carry myself, Iknow a certain comportment.
But um in Yemen, I I never feltthat fear of a dangerous society
or a crime-ridden city, youknow, um in Sanaa, in the
capital where I lived.
I I could I I could walk aroundby myself had unmolested, you
know, with great respect.
(15:42):
I I um it one of the biggestgifts was the why within the
family that I live, the wivesand daughters, after the great
tragedy of Katrina, I think, youknow, it takes time.
Who is who is this person?
Uh who that there's there's adefinitely a process of meeting
(16:04):
people, even though the familywas very active in diplomatic
circles, they received a lot ofguests.
Yeah, but I imagine for them itwas different having you know
embassy parties and havingreceiving a lot of guests, even
for a very social family to havea girl just start living with
you.
SPEAKER_01 (16:21):
So would you go back, would you go back to Yemen
today though?
SPEAKER_02 (16:25):
In a heartbeat.
The moment they stop airstrikingSana Airport, I would I would I
would go back in a heartbeat.
SPEAKER_01 (16:32):
There you go.
That's fantastic because youknow there's you can say that to
a lot of people and they go,why?
You know, and I I've had peoplesay to me several times, I've
said this is where I'm going,and and people say, Teesdale,
why do you keep going to thesethird world countries?
And I say to them, Do you knowwhere the term comes from?
(16:52):
Well, no, and what it means?
No, and why do you think it's athird world country?
Well, it's not these, no, thisis just a misused term.
But you people would besurprised if they actually went
to some of these placesthemselves, right?
And uh it's all educational.
And I might be surprised.
That's why I say to people, youneed to get out more, right?
SPEAKER_02 (17:11):
That's what we and I think and I think you're this
this work that you do, this thistraveling podcast is a beautiful
thing.
You know, I'm drawn to the genreof talking about travel.
I was interested, you know, thethe project I'm working on right
now, the book project, is justreading, you know, a 16th
century traveler's account andhearing about the travelers.
(17:31):
So I think that you know, I Ilove, I'm very curious about the
world and different cultures.
I mean, now we have look a shoutout to the age of of trash
reality TV series produced indifferent countries with the
same format.
You can just compare.
We're in a golden era ofcomparative cultural
anthropology, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (17:53):
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (17:54):
But having the experiences instead of just
instead of just watching througha screen or reading a book on
your armchair, you know, havingthat firsthand that's formative.
I think that shapes and and andbetters humanity, dare I say.
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
Yeah, exactly.
I know you you mentioned earlieron also also we're talking about
Renaissance.
You said you you did you live inItaly, by the way?
SPEAKER_02 (18:15):
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (18:15):
I uh Whereabouts I because I don't remember going
to I I I've done the big threebefore Venice, Rome, and
Florence.
And I love Florence.
That was a super place.
Um, but where where were you inItaly then?
SPEAKER_02 (18:27):
Wow.
The background is that myparents met in Rome before I
mean long before I was myparents met in Rome.
They were they were both fellowsat the academy.
They we we have amulti-generational to Italy.
So I had I had that going forme.
That probably explains um thechronology now.
(18:48):
So when I was 16, my first um myfirst trip was as a student
exchange program.
I lived with a family inSardinia at the age of 16.
That was crazy.
That was you know, an exchangeprogram where you're on the
beaches of Sardinia and goingout.
I'm a 16-year-old girl.
I had siblings that were oldertaking me out Italian clubbing
(19:08):
every night, beach clubbing.
It was my summer I was 16 inSardinia was a great time.
And the next summer, um, I Ididn't live with a family, but I
was enrolled in um a technicalart history school.
It was a fresco making school.
It was a lot of laying plasteron bricks, turns out.
Yeah, turns out I acquired someskills.
(19:29):
I should be using it for homedecor.
But um, I went to fresco schoolat 17 and I lived in Florence
that summer by myself.
And then um I returned and Itook a gap year.
I lived in Florence, I worked ina leather shop on the Arno
River.
Um, that was that wasinteresting.
(19:49):
And then I had um I starteduniversity um back home.
My I my my parents were faculty,so I took a year in Florence,
came back, uh, studied hard, andI by the end of university, I
was able to win a master'sfellowship with Syracuse
(20:09):
University back to Florence.
And it was fantastic, it waswonderful.
And then I spent two years againin Florence doing my master's
writing about um Renaissancegrottos and the moving
sculptures that were installedin them, which I thought were
fantastic.
And nobody knows that there wassculpture in the Renaissance
(20:29):
that was animated, and so Iwrote my master's thesis on
that, and then I got a um uhprize from the European Research
Council to pursue my PhD inVenice at uh the University
Kaffosgry, and that was threeyears in Venice, and then I
returned home in in 2018.
(20:52):
I received my PhD, I beganteaching at Tulane, and I um and
I began my professional academiccareer after that.
SPEAKER_01 (21:01):
Oh, that's that's fantastic.
And you you know what is it wasgreat?
You started this travel thing ata young age, right?
Which which is and this travelbook has been with you all your
life so far.
All my life, even before.
SPEAKER_02 (21:14):
I mean, I lived for I lived for family trips.
My gosh.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_01 (21:18):
It's it's it's fantastic you've done that.
And uh, you know, I wish peoplewould encourage their their kids
to do it more.
Just get out and see the world.
SPEAKER_02 (21:28):
I am doing it.
I I recommended the old program.
Actually, if you have anylisteners, um, there's a great
I'm an alumni, so but it'scalled Youth for Understanding.
And I have um another mom friendwhose daughter was a teenager
and was in that that age rangeand was really interested in
Norway.
And I said, she can go live inNorway because they have um I I
(21:49):
went to their website and it'smore expanded than it was in
2000.
I did it in okay, fulldisclosure.
I was I got exceptionalpermission at the age of 14 to
go to a French.
Exchange and that developed mymy French language even more
because we had you know we'renot native New Orleanians, we're
not native, you know, LouisianaFrench speakers.
(22:10):
I'm not that, but from traveland doing that exchange at 14, I
became fluent in French, and umthen so that was the France
program, and then when I was 16,I did their Italy program.
But I took, you know, when I wastelling my my friend about this,
I went to their website, andthey have you know so much more
countries than they had in myday, and it's just an incredible
(22:32):
way.
And I don't know, maybe, maybe,maybe I'll send my daughter,
we'll see what she thinks.
SPEAKER_01 (22:36):
But what about the French?
You know, when I started highschool in England, it was
mandatory for us to learnFrench.
SPEAKER_02 (22:43):
You must.
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
And so I did English and we did French, and people
ask them why, but it was that'sthe way it was back then.
I wouldn't say that's the way itis.
SPEAKER_02 (22:49):
That's the way in my daughter's school, but they had
the choice of Spanish.
SPEAKER_01 (22:52):
So yeah, interesting, but uh it's all
good.
And so what how many languagesdo you speak now?
SPEAKER_02 (22:59):
Well, look, I speak three well.
Um put me back in Sana for putme back in Sanaa for a week or
two, and and Arabic, I think,would be up there.
Um, I can be social in a couplelanguages, but I speak French,
English, and Italian like anormal person.
SPEAKER_01 (23:18):
Yeah, I I've got you beaten there.
I speak five languages.
SPEAKER_02 (23:21):
Oh, fantastic.
No, I love I love I love that.
I'm just joking with you.
SPEAKER_01 (23:25):
I when I say that to people, really, I said they said
what?
English, American, Canadian,Australian, and the language of
New Zealand.
And oh stop that, you know, butbut it but it's the accents and
dialects I've got used to.
I've been living in the US allhalf my life, so I can speak the
language now, you know, the theuh say the right words at the
right time, if you know what Imean.
(23:46):
But anyway, that's just uhjoking.
SPEAKER_02 (23:48):
There's a great phrase, there's a great
descriptor of Tibet, you know,every valley has its own
dialect, and every lama has hisown religion, you know, it's a
description of Tibet in terms oflike the valleys and the
dialects, and you know, you canyou can understand, you can
understand language in the grandscheme that way.
SPEAKER_01 (24:08):
Yeah, but you know, it's we're lucky now um that
most of the world speaksEnglish, to be honest with you.
And even I think even when thekids start school in uh China
now, they they learn English.
SPEAKER_02 (24:22):
Of course they do.
SPEAKER_01 (24:23):
Yeah, and I think uh it's good.
So it's it makes it easier forpeople like me to to to fit into
places, but there's some placesthat don't speak it a whole lot,
you know, which which you know Ijust am out of time, but you
know realistically, I I I'm notfluid in French, I know the odd
word, but I couldn't hold aconversation.
(24:43):
That was a long time ago, soit's just basically English.
And if I went north of theborder in Scotland, could I
understand sound a Scottishperson?
Probably unlikely, becausedialect there, I don't know.
But anyway, it's all good.
So when you do um well, I got aquestion about when you call
South Arabia, uh when you doyour research, what's class to
(25:06):
South Arabia as opposed to SaudiArabia?
SPEAKER_02 (25:10):
My goodness, Saudi Arabia is a modern invention.
Saudi Arabia is uh didn't existbefore the you know the the the
20th century.
SPEAKER_01 (25:20):
Yeah, right, yeah.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (25:21):
Right.
Okay, so that's a very shorttimeline uh of the history of
Arabia.
And the okay, so in our Westernperspective, if we're just going
on European knowledge, theRomans had three Arabias, right?
There is Arabia Nabataea, wherethe Nabataeans and Petra and the
traders were at the eastern endof the Mediterranean, right?
(25:43):
Yeah, and then there was ArabiaDeserta, the desert tribes.
SPEAKER_01 (25:48):
Yeah, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02 (25:50):
And then there in the south was what they called
Arabia Felix because it washappy, because it had
agriculture, it was green, ithad civilization, it had a
system of writing, it had thewealth, some of the wealthiest
kingdoms, the kingdoms inantiquity that were selling all
the incense burned to theEgyptians, all the incense
burned in every Greek, Egyptian,Roman temple ever in antiquity,
(26:13):
who received the the prophetsfrom that trade, those were the
South Arabian kingdoms that aremuch older than than the advent
of Islam, you know, that go backto there, you know, there's
concurrent, there's concurrentrelationships with the
Mesopotamian kings, you know,the kings of uh Assyria and the
(26:34):
ancient Mesopotamian record umwere known to them.
Same with ancient Egypt.
And so there's such a a muchlonger history in South Arabia
or Arabia Felix.
Um, but in antiquity, aroundfrom the first millennium BC on,
there was a concept of Yemen asa region.
SPEAKER_01 (26:55):
Right.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (26:56):
Right.
So that concept of a regionactually extends a bit into the
southern borders of present-daySaudi Arabia.
It's been a point of contention.
It has been there have beenactive skirmishes, you know,
between Sada and the border.
Um, the bord the southern borderof Saudi Arabia is uh a
contentious issue, which is whyit sometimes is contentious to
(27:18):
speak about historical Yemen.
SPEAKER_01 (27:22):
You know what?
What you're saying there is thisthis stuff or land grabs and
ownership of land goes oncenturies ago, many centuries
ago, you know, at the beginningof the first century and before
that, it even's happened in theCaribbean a lot.
But there's humans, there's beenon there, it even happens today,
(27:44):
you know.
SPEAKER_02 (27:45):
My goodness, that's the history of humans is land
grabs.
All human history can be landgrabs, migration and land grabs.
SPEAKER_01 (27:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
To be human is to land.
I'm sorry, I'm getting toocynical.
I've studied history way toomuch.
SPEAKER_01 (27:58):
Yeah, it's it's it's it's unbelievable.
Some sometimes uh well, a lot oftimes it's hostile as well.
Why that that's my thing aboutthis let the people live the the
way they want to.
Let's not waste human life, youknow, by trying to take a piece
of land that you think you own.
So uh I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (28:15):
It's uh My dear Malcolm, he who owns the land
controls its resources.
So if you let humans live andlive peaceful lives, you don't
ever get to control and profitoff of the land's resources.
And I think that is history in anutshell.
SPEAKER_01 (28:29):
Uh it probably is, but unless you talk to the
people in a civilized way, youmight be able to share and
participate.
I don't know.
Is it there's but you know, mesaying that is probably doesn't
play too well today, but anyway,it's just I mean, it's it's it
happens unfortunately, and uhthere'll always be conflict in
the world, and you know, alwayshas been, always will be.
(28:50):
So to be honest with you, we'restill alive, that's the main
thing, you know.
I mean, we've we've been I mean,have you ever been to a place um
in your travels that was havingissues at the time, political or
conflict?
SPEAKER_02 (29:06):
Oh yeah.
Um well in the summer of 2005,when I was still a student in
Yemen, um, it was I I was livingin a converted tower palace in
the historic.
It's a UNESCO Historic Center,Sana.
The buildings are some of themare over a thousand years old,
maybe older, but they have suchan active maintenance culture.
(29:27):
The brick gets you know patchedup and pointed, like they keep
uh airstrikes notwithstanding,uh, which there have been many
targeting the historic center inthese old palaces and just the
you know being uh being shelleduh will damage them, but in all
conditions, all conditions beingequal, um, they've been kept up
(29:49):
for generations through the samefamilies in a lot of cases.
So I was saying one of these oldtower palaces, it was now a
hotel, and um the government, Irecall, had raised the prices of
staples, um, flour, sugar, youknow, staples, but salaries had
not been raised commensurately.
(30:11):
Before this, um we saw uh therewas civil unrest around the um
the more modern areas of Sana.
There's a historic center, andthen there's like a diplomatic
neighborhood.
Um, they have a huge, beautiful,very modern showpiece mosque.
Um, and then there's sort ofsuburbs that sprawl.
(30:34):
When you look at old photographsof the capital Sanaa, there's a
beautiful beautiful walled city.
It looks like a storybook,right?
That like the most walled citiesthat that lasted later than
most.
In our memory, we havephotographs, very limited
photographs of it with its wallsintacts, but um, it just is
urban sprawl all through thevalley now.
(30:56):
And um, so those neighborhoodssee a lot uh more life and
activity than the historiccenter, right?
So there were Western chains.
Uh there's there's a pizza,there's Pizza Hut, there's KFC.
Um, oh gosh.
I I think I got food poisoningfrom like a Bugs Bunny themed
(31:17):
Western chicken restaurantcalled Funny Bunny.
Anyway, funny bunny is notoriousnow in my memory.
Um, but we were sitting with theunrest.
I remember being on the rooftopof the hotel, you know, with the
the management and the it was asecurity thing.
And we were sitting there andwatching explosions go off in
the further parts of the city.
(31:39):
And I saw this is this is a I'mhorrible at fast food
restaurants because I always amlike, one day I saw a KFC go up
and smoke.
And I did, yeah, because some ofthe Western chains were
targeted.
And uh so from the rooftop, Isaw, yeah, no, from the rooftop,
you hear, you know, I took look,we took my daughter to Universal
(32:00):
Studios, and there's like uh,I'm gonna ruin the name because
I don't watch the movies, butJason Bourne, I want to say,
there's like a Middle Eastern,an American in a Middle Eastern
terrorist situation withexplosions going off, and like
it's very thrilling.
You get to live the life ofbeing an American spy, I guess,
in a Middle Eastern country withlike bombs going off.
But let me tell you, the soundof the real ones is like deeper,
(32:21):
shakes the horizon.
And that, you know, when the warwas happening and real bombs
were were going off and beingdropped on them, it's like it's
horrendous when you have anunderstanding of what the
magnitude of those not theDisney, not the Universal Studio
shows we see as Americans, youknow.
SPEAKER_01 (32:34):
So well, I know that's uh I can't imagine that.
I mean, I I remember being inKiev in the Ukraine, the end of
2021, right before the conflictstarted there.
And I, you know, based on what Isaw there, it's a fantastic
place.
And now it's had the crap bombedout of it.
It's it's a real shame, youknow.
Well, you know, thinking lovelythe buildings architectural
(32:57):
either wonderful.
SPEAKER_02 (32:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
No, it's I remember having avery distinct feeling.
It was 2005 I was there, so wewere in the Americans were in
Iraq in what 2003, I want tosay, was the around that time,
the toppling of Saddam Hussein,dare I?
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
Oh no, no, I think that goes back to um you you
yeah, it probably well I wasthinking was it was recent, it
was around.
SPEAKER_02 (33:25):
It was recent history.
I mean, I I'm an earlymodernist.
Don't ask me specific years ofrecent history, but you know,
we're we're we're going offvibes.
But it has only very recentlythat there was an American
presence in Iraq.
Yeah, and that had been felt.
(33:45):
And in Yemen, it hadn't therewas unrest that political
agreements with that presidenthad um had opened up the
exploitation of their ownresources.
It was there was a feeling thatYemen had been impoverishing its
own people at the expense ofsigning on to you know global
(34:05):
world economic agreements andthat it was being dominated in
this in by this way by the West.
And they're very in the north,the north has never there were
times where it was part of theOttoman Empire, but the Ottoman
Empire was always like anoutpost, and there was still the
path, there was always anindigenous power in North Yemen
(34:27):
of a line of imams that werenever conquered, you know, other
Muslim countries all around theMediterranean basin, Iraq, it
was a sense of of Muslimcountries had been mostly
colonized and conquered, andYemen, uh one of the great, one
of the great uh nicknames ofYemen that they take great pride
in that is that it's thegraveyard of invaders.
SPEAKER_01 (34:48):
Oh, really?
SPEAKER_02 (34:49):
Right, right, right.
And you know, looking around, itit was a time capsule too,
because it hadn't beencolonized, it had it's it
hadn't, you know, there weren'tthese great Hausman boulevards.
It wasn't this, it hadn't beenEuropeanized ever.
And there was almost a sense ofa medieval, like the medieval
and and the unaltered.
(35:12):
And it was just, I rememberthinking, oh, I hope this lasts,
I hope it's untouched, I hope,you know, and then when war came
to it, you know, the airstrikesof the recent years uh from
Western munitions from outside,I mean uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, the
inevitability, the inevitabilityof resources and land grabs.
SPEAKER_01 (35:31):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, you've been to afew Islamic countries, right?
So you're usually prettyfamiliar with the way they live
there.
What what what is Yemen stillyou like your favorite?
SPEAKER_02 (35:44):
Oh, it's another world.
Yeah, it's uh it's on anotherlevel.
Uh truly and truly.
The the quality of life, the thesense of also um I lived I lived
in in extraordinary privilege inSanaa, the capital, which is you
know, renowned as this veryrefined city of poetry and tower
(36:07):
palaces, and just really arefined sense of living, um, the
dresses, the parties, the theincense, the bahur, the smells,
the just the joy.
Like it's a it's a romanticcity.
Yeah.
And it's um it's kind of likeit's kind of like how New
(36:30):
Orleanians like to see ourselvesduring carnival, like, oh, we're
so refined, we have our balls,we have our genteel, like we
know how to live.
Like there's a refinement oflifestyle in like the finer
things in Sana that aligns verywell with like my New Orleans
Mardi Gras sense.
And it was it blew my mind.
(36:51):
It blew my mind.
I haven't lived, I haven't livedlike I've lived in my Sana
Arabian Princess chapter sincelike you can only live like that
there.
But I know that show you knowthat there is extreme poverty in
that country.
I mean, I wasn't living in arural scenario of ext, there is
extreme poverty, of course.
You know, there's there they getthey receive refugees from East
(37:12):
Africa.
There is, you know, a lot moreuncomfortable.
I had I had a beautiful, a crazybeautiful experience in Yemen.
SPEAKER_01 (37:20):
So yeah, no, there you go.
You'll remember that for therest of the life.
Did you ever spend spent time inIndonesia, which is uh the the
world's largest Muslim country?
SPEAKER_02 (37:27):
You know, I would like to.
There are so many connections.
Um, I I'm actually writing a asection about the European
traveler encountered a livingSufi saint that spawned these
massive communities of faithfulin the Malaysia as well as
Indonesia.
Yeah and at one point thedescendants of it's Al-Aidarus,
(37:49):
he's a line of the Hadrami Sufi,um, line of of Islamic mysticism
at the time, and at one pointhad their own kingdom in uh on
the Malay Peninsula, and Ihaven't been.
That's that's I would love to.
I visited, I visited my uncle inhigh school, he lived in
Singapore, but I did not get Idid not really absorb that that
(38:11):
aspect of the culture at all.
SPEAKER_01 (38:13):
No, I I just got I'll be in um Indonesia later on
this year in November, and uhI've stayed in Bali for a while,
then it's just gonna camp out ofthe jungle there for a while and
then uh be moving probably intoum go to Komodo and up through
uh the Indonesian islandstowards uh Singapore.
I used to live in Singaporeactually, so um great, wonderful
(38:34):
love to go back there again.
So Lily, I'm a bit older thanyou, so I mean I'm I'm I've got
this.
I'm I'm I'm still doing it whileI can.
You've got plenty of years to todo whatever.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (38:45):
This is a zoom filter.
SPEAKER_01 (38:48):
I know, yeah, as we say in Britain, I'm an old
geezer, you know, but that'sthat's that's all right.
I'm doing it, it keeps me going,you know, and uh gotta stay stay
around here.
So um where are you off to next,by the way?
SPEAKER_02 (39:02):
I'm going to San Francisco after Mardi Gras for a
conference, and that is the thenext travel on my on my
calendar.
I have never been to SanFrancisco, and I'm quite looking
forward to uh the RenaissanceSociety of America conference.
But that's it.
That's it.
No, I um I don't have I don'thave far-flung travel lined up
at the moment.
Um I I have c I have a coupleupcoming papers.
(39:26):
I'm traveling to theuniversities in the States, but
no, no, no.
We'll see what we'll see what2026 brings.
SPEAKER_01 (39:34):
Yeah, it's a long time.
I'm I know my itinerary ispretty well booked up for for
this year, but that's that's allright.
I always have to have somethingto look forward to.
But actually, your your website,what's the official site name of
your website?
SPEAKER_02 (39:47):
Oh, please don't ask me that.
It's my Google site.
I've I oh okay, God.
SPEAKER_01 (39:51):
When this gets posted, then I'll put the
address on the on the post whenit's a people.
SPEAKER_02 (39:57):
Thank you.
No, no, it doesn't have a snazzydomain name yet, but it is early
days that I even have a website.
SPEAKER_01 (40:04):
So okay, but it it looks good, and you you write
books as well, and there's awhole range of information,
articles, paper, podcasts, it'sa whole range of stuff there.
So um, I I looked at it briefly,but I look at it a bit more um
when you get a chance.
So it's it's sort ofinteresting.
So all about you is on there.
So is there anything uh ifpeople want to get hold of you
(40:27):
for chit chat or anything likethat, or got questions, or are
intrigued by what you say, whichI figure they must be, and um
are you open for people to reachout to you and say, please tell
me this and what you recommend Ido?
You know, it's you know thattype of information.
How would they how would theyget hold of you if you for your
(40:47):
exercise?
SPEAKER_02 (40:48):
Um on my website there's a contact page.
Um, and I do have a repres arepresentative.
Um you would talk to uh NigelHetherington at Past Preservers
Agency, and his contact is on mywebsite in terms of uh being
able to receive.
Are you aciding me?
It's Nigel Past Preservers.
Yes, do you know him?
SPEAKER_01 (41:08):
I know him.
SPEAKER_02 (41:09):
Oh, anywhere you go.
He's doing a great work.
SPEAKER_01 (41:13):
Yeah, I don't know.
I I may speak to to uh Mo fromthat company, but uh anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (41:18):
Yes, yes, no, that is that is it's a small world,
isn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (41:22):
Yeah.
Uh but but you know, it's sohave you got anything to you
like to add and um to to thechit chat here or you want to
say anything?
SPEAKER_02 (41:32):
Oh no, I mean uh we have I feel like we could just
exchange travel stories uh intothe on, you know.
I think that between the two ofus, there there's uh probably a
lot of material.
I'm so curious about yourupcoming travels to Indonesia.
I'd actually love to be loopedin to the details.
(41:52):
And if I have any anything ofinterest, I'll send it over to
you too.
But you know, it's no, it's it'swonderful.
I love talking to fellowtravelers who have that
curiosity for just how how widethe world is.
You know, every time I travel,I'm in an airport and they're
always busy and people arealways rushing.
And the thought always comesthat in every airport at this
(42:15):
moment, everywhere, it's filledwith people rushing, and you
just think, you know, like howhow truly expansive we are, and
like how and how active ourlittle human hive is running
around at all times and how bigit is and how vast it is, and
we're always just seeing a very,a very small screen, you know.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (42:35):
Well, no, you know, you travel.
I mean, we can you can haveproblems.
I I was true for one, peoplehave their luggage lost, the
weather, plane breaks down, allthat it's gonna happen
periodically if you travelsomewhere.
So just expect you have to suckit up and move on.
It's just for a short period oftime, but it's always
worthwhile, you know.
So uh but so keep on doing it,uh Lily.
(42:57):
But um keep in touch as well,you know.
Whatever you don't you know toget hold of me.
Then we'll do another podcastone day, and uh and uh I mean I
nearly died.
SPEAKER_02 (43:07):
I mean, I had had a we can talk near death
experiences traveling, you know.
I mean I'm sure there's there'sroom for that.
SPEAKER_01 (43:17):
We could talk probably for a very, very long
time.
SPEAKER_02 (43:19):
Oh, but it's look, it is so nice meeting you, and
your podcast is wonderful.
I'm so glad you're doing thework and bringing the world, you
know, to all your listeners.
So I think it's wonderful work.
SPEAKER_01 (43:29):
Well, well, thank you very much.
Um, that's Dr.
Lily Philson, everybody.
Um, thanks for coming on and uhhaving me.
Enjoy New Orleans and uh theupcoming Mardi Gras.
SPEAKER_02 (43:42):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (43:43):
Um enjoy that, and uh we'll talk some other time,
okay?
SPEAKER_02 (43:46):
Great, it was my honor.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (43:48):
Okay, that's it for this episode of the Travel
Addict Podcast, where we chasesunsets, flirt with danger, and
occasionally make questionablechoices in foreign lands.
Until next time, may yourflights be on time, and your
travel stories just scandalousenough to leave a few details
out.
Check out Malcolm's websites atmalcolmteesdale.com and
(44:10):
travelingenglishman.com.
Safe travels and enjoy life,everyone.
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