February 7, 2025 • 54 mins
In this episode of The UMB Pulse, Jody Olsen, PhD, MSW '72, a distinguished leader in global public service and former Peace Corps director shares her journey from aspiring social worker to influential advocate for women's empowerment, cross-cultural understanding, and global citizenship.
Olsen, an alumna of the University of Maryland School of Social Work, shares in detail about her experiences leading transformative Peace Corps programs, overcoming challenges, and her ongoing contributions to the University of Maryland, Baltimore community.
00:00 Introduction to Dr. Jody Olsen
02:37 Early Life and Career Beginnings
05:09 Navigating Leadership Challenges
09:04 Impact of the Peace Corps in Eastern Europe
17:20 Women's Empowerment and Mentorship
36:36 Global Community Building and UMB's Role
43:33 Memorable Moments and Reflections
49:31 Advice to the Younger Generation
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Episode Transcript
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Dana Ram (00:00):
On this edition of the UMB Pulse, we are thrilled to welcome Dr.
Jody Olsen.
She's a proud alumna of the Universityof Maryland School of Social
Work, and she is a distinguishedleader in global public service.
Jody served as the 20th directorof the Peace Corps, where she
oversaw transformative programs thatstrengthen communities worldwide.
If you're not familiar with thePeace Corps, it's a federal program
(00:23):
launched by President John F.
Kennedy that deploys volunteersand promotes peace and world
understanding by helping Americansassist communities solve local
challenges tied to health, education,agriculture, and the environment.
Charles Schelle (00:37):
Jody is also a founding member of UMBrella that's
UMB's initiative to support theempowerment of women in the workplace.
She continues to help UMB on theworld stage as former director
and current senior fellow of theUMB Center for Global Engagement.
With a career spanning decades ofservice and leadership, Jody continues
to inspire through her advocacy forwomen's empowerment, cross cultural
(01:00):
understanding, and global citizenship.
She is also an incrediblestoryteller as you're about to hear.
So sit back, relax, and enjoyour conversation with Dr.
Jody Olsen on the UMB Pulse.
Jena Frick (01:16):
You're listening to the heartbeat of the University of
Maryland, Baltimore, the UMB Pulse.
Dana Rampolla (01:30):
Hi, Jody.
Welcome to the UMB Pulse.
Jody Olsen (01:33):
Well, it's an honor to be here.
Thank you, Dana.
I'm thrilled.
Dan (01:38):
We are excited to have you.
Charles and I were fortunate enough lastyear you came and visited the University
of Maryland, Baltimore, where we arerecording from, and visited us and shared
a lot of really interesting informationwith us about your life journey.
And we, right away, we werelike, Oh, we've got to try to
get this lady on the Pulse.
She's terrific.
And you have such a uniquehistory and trajectory.
(02:00):
So we really look forwardto our conversation today.
Well, thank you.
And for me, it's especially wonderfulto be at the university of Maryland,
Baltimore, because as you know, myjourney, the very early parts of
my journey began on that campus.
And I love UMB.
Charles Schelle (02:19):
Well, you said it right there.
So to kick things off, let's talkabout that journey and how it started.
You've had that incredible career withthe Peace Corps, but what initially drew
you to public service and how did yourtime at the School of Social Work here
in Baltimore prepare you for that path?
Well, let me go back to when Iwas 11 years old in Salt Lake City, Utah.
(02:41):
My aunt ran Lutheran SocialServices of Salt Lake.
And back in those old days,you can take somebody to work.
And so she took her niece, me,and I was at Lutheran Social
Services for a day talking to,to social workers, seeing people.
I came away from that day with my auntat Lutheran Social Services saying,
(03:05):
I'm going to be a social worker.
11 years old.
And it, one, she was a hero to me.
Two, it helped set mypath for social work.
So we go forward many, many years, andI again graduated from the University
of Utah, became a Peace Corps volunteer.
We, um, moved to Baltimore, myhusband and I, and new baby.
(03:29):
And I knew I was going to bea social worker and where was
the School of Social Work?
It was just about eight blocksfrom where we were living.
And so I began in the School of SocialWork in 1970 and it was such a joy.
Uh, Dan Thursz was the dean, it had a lotof advocacy to it, which is what I wanted.
(03:51):
I wanted, uh, advocacy and leadershipand policy and the school shaped that
for me during my two years there.
And I am forever grateful.
for that social work training.
And I might just note that all the restof my life, people laugh and say, Oh,
(04:11):
there goes the social work part of Jody.
And I will be, even when I was inleadership meetings at Peace Corps
and we would talk about a difficulttopic and someone would say, Okay,
Jody, little clinician here, a little,we need a little clinical work.
And so it became I was, see it becamea joke, but a joke in the way that
(04:35):
people understood what had shapedme, namely social work, and that
I was carrying that forward andhonoring it in everything I did.
And sometimes people would comeinto my office and go, okay, I
need the social work part, Jody.
So it, it really has been acore for me, an anchor for me
(04:58):
for all these decades of work.
Dana Rampolla (05:00):
So once a social worker, always a social
worker, is what I'm hearing.
Jody Olsen (05:04):
That's true.
That's true.
I am grateful for, particularlyfor group work classes.
Dana Rampolla (05:09):
Back in 2006, you shared that you faced a pivotal
moment when you weren't chosenas the Peace Corps director.
So talk a little bit about how younavigated that disappointment and then
what leadership lessons you took from itthat propelled you to ultimately being.
Jody O (05:26):
I was deputy director at the time, and, uh, I had been deputy
for four years under President Bush, andthe then director, Gaddi Vasquez, left.
And I knew I wanted to be director.
I had been Senate confirmed.
It was going to be easy forthe White House to select me.
And they invited me over and said, Oh,I bet Peace Corps needs a social worker.
(05:50):
I mean, sorry, needs a Peace Corpsdirector that, you know, was a Peace Corps
volunteer and did all these good things.
And so I went out of the office, the WhiteHouse personnel office, feeling very smug.
I'm going to get this job.
Well, then two days later, theWhite House called me and said,
we want to give you a heads up.
(06:11):
We're choosing somebody else.
And.
The next day the announcement came outthat Ron Tschetter was being named Peace
Corps director, who happened to be areturned Peace Corps volunteer also.
And at that moment, I remembermy insides fell, my dream, my
dream was dashed in that moment.
(06:33):
It was never going to happen.
It could not happen.
And I sat there and Ithought, what do I do?
I can get angry.
I can resign.
I can do a bunch of things.
And then I thought, no, thisis what I'm going to do.
I love Peace Corps.
So I found Ron Tschetter's email.
(06:54):
And ten minutes later, I senthim a note and I said, I know
you know that I wanted this job.
I wanted to be director.
But I want to tell you, I'm here for you.
I will do everything to support you.
Congratulations.
I'm excited for you.
(07:14):
Let's go forward.
That was hard, that was really hard.
So he came and became Peace CorpsDirector about two, three weeks later.
And he and I had a fabulous time.
We became good friends.
And I appreciated that we alwayshave to keep a larger sense of
(07:38):
what is meant to be and who we are.
It's not about the person.
And I knew I could keep giving.
And I was even more enrichedby being able to be a deputy
to Ron and let go of yourself.
I learned as a leader, let go of yourself.
(07:58):
It's not about you.
Dana Rampo (08:01):
That's great advice.
No matter what age you are or whatpath of life you've found yourself
down, you know, that's terrific.
Thank you for sharing that.
How many years did you wind upworking under him or with him?
Jody Olse (08:14):
I worked with Ron for about three years until, uh, the the
next president came in, Obama camein, and I then actually got to be
acting director for eight months.
And so I, I got to practice in thatchair after Ron Tschetter left.
But it is again, you, when you believe inan organization, you believe in a purpose.
(08:41):
Let yourself go.
Charles Schelle (08:44):
Yeah, as you said, you know, it takes, it
takes some grace under pressure.
, or grace under fire sometimes, to,to realize what the mission is and,
and what your role and everything is.
And winding the clock back, to, , theeighties, , in your book, A Million
My Peace Corps Journey plenty,plenty of great stories in it.
(09:04):
And one chapter , "And the Wall CameTumbling Down," tells about your
story and your, , time in EasternEurope when these countries were
trying to transition to democracy.
Could you share a story from thattime that highlights the Peace Corps
impact to those folks out there?
Jody O (09:21):
Uh, let me give one, uh, particular story, uh, you're right,
Charles, this was about 1989, 1990, andanybody that goes back to the history
books knows that it's when the wallfell, uh, East Germany ceased being
a country and the rest of Centraland Eastern Europe became closer and
(09:43):
closer to the West and left the East.
And one reference I'll make is in Romania.
Romania had been under a verystrong dictatorship for a number
of years under the Ceausescus, andit was grim, grim, and nobody even
knew what was going on in Romania.
It was so locked down anda frightening place to be.
(10:09):
Well, the Ceausescus met their demise, Ibelieve, on Christmas Day when they were
both killed, and so suddenly Romania hadto decide what it was and who it was.
And they invited PeaceCorps for us to visit.
So Paul Coverdell, the then PeaceCorps director and I, chief of
staff at that time, went to Romania.
(10:31):
And we visited, uh, orphanage.
And because the country had beenencouraging children, but not
necessarily staying with their families.
And so they had, uh, many orphanages andthe thought was that we would work in
orphanages to help work with the children.
Well, we were visiting this orphanageand the walls had just been painted
(10:54):
beautifully white, but there was nothing.
There were no toys.
There were no, nothing on the walls.
It was stark, stark, stark.
And so the headmaster, as we finishedthe tour, came back and he looked
at Paul and me and said, I'm sosorry, you see nothing on the walls.
(11:16):
There are nothing on, there'snothing on the walls yet.
Because we took down all thephotos of the Ceausescus.
We took down all the awfulness that wehave been living the last few years.
But we don't know whatto put on the walls.
And so they're whitebecause we can't decide yet.
What goes on the walls of an orphanage?
And then he looked at me andhe said, This is like our mind.
(11:42):
We've taken the past out of our mind.
But we don't know whatto put in our minds.
Our minds are blank.
Our minds are empty.
You can help fill what we need toput in our minds, and I'm always
have been in awe with that becauseI appreciate the opportunities for
(12:06):
growth, but how when you have thatkind of a change, your mind's empty,
and you're susceptible, and it's importantto be there in a way that gives you the
growth and the strength and the buildingof democracy that can be so important.
Dana Rampolla (12:25):
Can you share some specifics of what you did?
Jody O (12:28):
Well, in Romania, it was again working in the orphanages, but very
quickly we moved to English, but let megive a Poland story, which is a one where
we could see what actually happened.
In Poland, we met with the Minister ofEducation, uh, right after the fall.
(12:48):
It was the third week in October of 1989.
And he said to us, two things.
One, people have been coming in theselast few weeks and promising us things.
And then they don't come back.
Second, he said, don't see usas we are now, because as Poles,
(13:15):
this is not who we can be.
Be with us.
We're not who we are now.
So we described in that evening, inhis cold little room with one light,
setting up an English program to retrainteachers in Poland to teach English.
(13:36):
Well, by a luck little over a year later,we were able, Paul and I were able to
go back to Poland, and we were meetingwith the minister and the deputy minister
and the ambassador, and sorry, the firststory was with the deputy minister.
(13:56):
So we were in the room in theambassadors, American ambassadors room.
Talking about all the good things thatwere happening and Peace Corps volunteers
there are 120 volunteers there at the timeand all of a sudden the deputy minister
stood up and he said, Minister, Mr.
Minister, Mr.
Ambassador, I have something to say,and he walked briskly over to the wall,
(14:18):
the ambassador's wall, which had a hugemap of Poland on it, and he said, Let
me point out 13 English training centersacross this country, where we are taking
high school graduates, where they'regetting the AA degrees in English, and we
(14:38):
have two or three Peace Corps volunteersin every one of these centers, and they
are helping write the curriculum for us.
And then he turned and he looked at Pauland me, and he said, It was just over
a year ago that you were in my office,and you made a promise that Peace
(15:02):
Corps would not let us down.
You promised.
And because of that promise, I wasable to go ahead and create and get
ready and get money for these centers,because your volunteers came and taught.
(15:24):
And look where we are today.
Paul Coverdell, the Peace Corpsdirector, who's very straight laced.
I looked at him and hehad tears in his eyes.
I went, oh my heavens.
But that's what you can do whenyou work with people and have
people believe in themselves.
(15:46):
That part was also very important tome to write for the book because I was
watching the beginnings of democracy.
I was watching people whowere finding their own voices.
The mayors in Poland whosaid to volunteers, we've
always had responsibility.
(16:06):
We've never had any authority.
Now we can really create, create a city.
We can create a community.
We can build what we need to build.
This is a first.
And so I hope that this particularpart of the book reminds all of
us of how to trust ourselves andas communities what we can build.
Charles (16:33):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
And especially With all the conflictsgoing on around the world, and there's
a lot of change happening in countriesaround the globe that shows you that
if we band together and help oneanother, that the world will be a
better place as as corny as that sounds.
It's true that we can make it abetter life for someone else, and
(16:59):
they just need a little inspirationand trust to make that happen.
Jody Olsen (17:03):
Right?
Because we can help them trust themselves.
We don't tell and shouldnot tell people what to do.
It is working with them to helpbe a catalyst for what they
know they can do for themselves.
Dana Rampolla (17:20):
Jody, I know that also another area that's important
to you is women's empowerment.
You were one of the foundingmembers here at UMB of UMBrella.
I'm wondering if you could take a minuteto talk about some barriers that you may
have faced as a woman in your leadershiprole, and if there were any mentors
or allies who kind of supported you,influenced you, helped you along the way.
J (17:44):
I was very lucky to feel that I had mentors all along the way and the,
a couple of the faculty at the School ofSocial Work were very helpful for me and
had me keep going and, you know, jugglinga baby and pregnant with a second.
And how do you hold allthose pieces together?
(18:04):
And again, this was the 1970s and Iremember when we were meeting right
about that time with the governor'soffice about nursing homes and because
I was on the governor's nursing homecommission as an assistant, and I walked
(18:25):
into the office and he looked at me andhe said, Oh, how far pregnant are you?
I said, well, I'm seven monthspregnant, just about ready to deliver.
And he said, well, you know, legallyin Maryland, you can't work after
the third month of pregnancy.
I was surprised.
I looked at him and I went, okay,what are you going to do about it?
(18:49):
We went on.
Uh, but it was such a jarring momentof being discriminated against, but not
wanting to scream and yell about it.
I mean, I was so taken aback,but I thought, okay, I'm sure
that nothing's going to happenand we'll all just move on.
(19:10):
So let's just acknowledge it move on.
Dana Ram (19:13):
So nothing did happen?
Jody (19:14):
Oh, no, nothing happened.
But the, uh, one of the key mentors forme was Loret Ruppe, who was a Peace Corps
director for eight years in the '80s.
And it was an example of a woman who,um, came from a very wealthy family in
Upper Peninsula, Michigan, whose husbandhad been a congressman for 12 years,
(19:38):
mothered five girls in about seven years,and hadn't officially worked, as the term
went, before she became the Peace Corpsdirector, put in place by President Bush.
And we all went, oh my heavens,this is going to be terrible.
I'm sorry, not by Bush,by President Reagan.
And She doesn't know what she's doing, youknow, and we, we all had a picture of what
(20:03):
a woman with that background would be.
Well, she became one of the strongestPeace Corps directors, fighter for
Peace Corps, overcame the, some of thefolks in the Reagan White House that
were what we would call neocons, andfought for the independence of Peace
(20:26):
Corps and actually got the independenceof Peace Corps through Congress.
I worked for her for three yearsand then became one of her closest
friends for the next four years.
And her steelyness,combined with her charm,
she never gave up.
(20:46):
And later, when I became PeaceCorps director, I was thinking,
Loret, Loret, what are your words?
She unfortunately died early of cancer,but I just put her in my head with the
steeliness and yet the gentleness and thesmiles that are necessary, not combative.
(21:11):
But firm and steely.
And I always took her with me after the1980s.
Dana Rampolla (21:22):
Wonderful.
So not only a social worker, buta true-at-heart politician, too.
Jody Olsen (21:27):
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
No, I come from a political background.
I have a pretty good idea whatpolitics are about and what
you're saying, what you don't say.
And, you know, and as a woman, it'simportant to really understand that.
Let me give a quick a storyfrom when I was deputy director
and I was in Mauritania.
And in Mauritania, a Muslimcountry, middle of Sahara desert,
(21:53):
and you picture all that that is.
And we were in the eveningout in the desert visiting
with a group of volunteers.
at a volunteer's mother-in-law'shouse, a Mauritanian house.
And a staff person came to me, this isnow about nine o'clock at night, and
(22:15):
says, oh, the minister of education is inthis little village visiting his family.
And he's in this little, one-roomhotel, and he would like to meet you
because you won't have a chance tomeet in the capital city, Nouakchott.
So can he just officially meet you here?
And then the staff person said, 'Don'tworry, it's after hours.' He might be in
(22:40):
jeans, so he's not wearing his outfit.
So, you know, you don't need to dressup, you don't need to do anything,
this is just a casual say hello andsay thank you and praise him and he'll
praise you and we do those usual things.
So, I said sure.
And so now it's ten o'clock, a littleafter ten o'clock, and the Peace Corps car
(23:01):
drives up to this little itsy bitsy hotel.
And let's say I'm not looking likeI would've looked if I was at ten
o'clock in the morning in Nouakchott.
And we got outta the car and I turnedto the, to the staff person and I
said, well, should I wear a headscarf?
And he said, oh my heaven.
No, this is all after hours.
(23:22):
So I started walking to the hoteldoor and then I returned and I
said to the staff person, 'no, I'mgonna put on the headscarf.' That's
important to put on the headscarf.
So I put on the headscarf, wewent in, there he was, casual,
stayed an hour, chatted.
I was drawing up my 40 words of Arabic anda few words of French from my own Peace
(23:47):
Corps time, and we had a wonderful time.
All right, well, the next day,the staff person came up to me and
he said, let me tell you what theminister said to me after you left.
He said to me, Thank you.
Thank Jody for wearing the headscarf.
(24:08):
He said, I know she didn't need to,but she did it out of honor and respect.
And that means so much to me, but moreimportantly, it means so much to our
country and our culture for him, forher to choose to wear the headscarf.
(24:32):
What I took from that was,as a woman, around the world,
cultures, countries, societies,have different roles for women.
And where we are, I'm speakingfor myself now, an American
woman playing a leadership role.
(24:55):
in a different society.
And I understood that Iwas not a woman first.
I was the Peace Corps senior leader first.
And my role in meeting with leaders fromother countries was about Peace Corps.
It was not about me being a woman.
(25:17):
I happened to be a woman and Iwas proud of being a woman, but I
needed to honor Peace Corps first.
And so it meant that I would do my bestto honor the traditions of the country.
Even if those traditions did not have awomen's role the way I thought a woman's
(25:39):
role should be, but it wasn't me atthat time to teach about women's roles.
It was me at that time to honor theculture, the leaders, the country, and put
myself as a woman in the background so Icould keep Peace Corps in the foreground.
(26:04):
And that's been really important to meto always remember, and when I, excuse
me, when I worked with Congress also,how do I honor the congressperson?
Me as a woman is second, itis Peace Corps comes first.
(26:28):
And I think that women and womenleaders can do more for that role
by not accentuating that role,but by being something, a person
that blends into a larger wholethat that person is representing.
Charles (26:54):
It sounds like, , that that's your big takeaway for learning
about women's empowerment through likedifferent cultural context, right?
Jody Olsen (27:02):
Yes.
Charles Schelle (27:03):
Recognizing and respecting the culture, as you said,
and, acknowledging what your, what yourmission is, because if you're there,
basically on a business trip, you stillhave to , get business done, right?
Jody Olsen (27:17):
Right.
And even if it's wanting to bring in morePeace Corps volunteers or opening a new
program, the minute that I walked intothe room, Oh, my heavens, there they go
in the USA of a woman as a director forwhatever they wanted to say or think.
Well, I needed to get rid of that asa first thought and Peace Corps as a
(27:41):
first thought, because I think it helpswhat the takeaway is, is valuing women.
Because you're there equally talking aboutwhatever it is you need to talk about.
You're having an equal conversation.
Charles Schelle (28:00):
Right.
And, and speaking about equality, there'sa 2023 Global Gender Gap Report where
the United States ranks only 43rd outof 146 countries for gender equality.
So, based on your experience asformer Peace Corps, uh, Director,
why do you think that is?
Why do you think the UnitedStates falls so far behind other
(28:23):
developed countries in that area?
Jody Olsen (28:29):
Good question.
Part of it is, how do we think aboutwhat equality means and what is it?
How do we have a conversation thattries to take gender stuff out of it?
At the same time, and this is where I'mgoing to put in a plug for University
(28:49):
of Maryland Baltimore, to know whichis professional schools, and a lot of
the professional schools are schoolsthat traditionally are male, um,
dominated when you think of medicineand pharmacy and law in particularly.
And yet the University of MarylandBaltimore has more women students in every
(29:13):
one of the schools than men at this time.
But what I found when I was on thefaculty there, um, you know, up until
about eight years ago, was a sense ofnone of this matters is how we treat
(29:35):
each other equally as professionalstalking to professionals to service
healthcare in the state of Maryland.
And I know that some people are going todisagree with me and probably many people
are going to disagree with me, but I feelcreating a room of comfort for everyone
(30:03):
is where the value of the woman comes.
Space together is not a competitionand it takes time to help overcome
that and feel comfortable thata woman can play an equal role,
which she can't, by the way.
(30:23):
But to do that, don't setit up as a competition.
And I feel that part of that renewal ofthat, I always felt at the University of
Maryland, Baltimore at UMB, and it wasa gift I tried to then give back again
(30:45):
with Peace Corps when I became director.
of just treating people asindividually wonderful people.
Now, that sounds a little strange.
It's kind of not a way that we try to comeout, come at furthering women's rights.
(31:05):
But we, for me, we have to get ridof the competition and help both men
and women feel comfortable with eachother to More equal what we do in the
workplace and the jobs that we get.
Dana Rampolla (31:23):
Jody, would you say doing that is just kind of
purporting that it's a place ofnormalcy, not drawing attention to it?
Jody Olsen (31:30):
You got it.
It's a place of normalcy.
Dana, you said it really well, thatit's not about me being a woman.
It's not about youbeing a man or whatever.
We're two people workingto solve this problem.
And as we don't think about it, then it'seasier to choose the best person, the
(31:51):
person who suits that situation, and notthink about Oh, I need to get five more
women just because I have to meet a goal.
To me, that's a disservice to thewomen and a disservice to the men.
It's building comforter, comfortablenessin making it almost neutral.
(32:12):
I mean, we're not the same.
I know that.
It's creating individual respectregardless of whom that person is.
You can tell I come froma Peace Corps background.
Dana Ra (32:25):
Well, I'm just going to say, I'm going to go on a little bit
of a limb here asking you, do you feelas if that is the vantage point that
the Peace Corps currently operates?
I wonder, I feel like we're in a placeright now, societally, where we are
keeping tabs, we are counting numbers.
What's your perception as anoutside view, looking back?
Jody Ols (32:46):
Well, as a Peace Corps volunteer, and there are 250, 000 returned
Peace Corps volunteers right now, andactually now in Peace Corps, about two
thirds are women, and one third are men.
Uh, in the beginning, it wastwo thirds men, one third women.
So there's been an evolution.
But I think to your question,Dana, is when a volunteer goes
(33:09):
into a community, that volunteerbecomes part of that community.
You learn the language, you livewith the host family, you eat the
food, you take the kids to market,you teach them in the classroom.
It doesn't matter whetheryou're a man or a woman, and
the community is watching you.
(33:30):
So as a woman, if you'rea woman volunteer, you're
being a A cultural person.
Well, what happens to the volunteer,what happened to me, is I gained respect
for myself in a way that I didn't haveto put it out there because I had gone
(33:53):
through the Peace Corps experience.
All right.
For example.
I was in an Arab society,and women wore veils.
Peace Corps volunteers didn't wearveils, so I didn't wear a veil, although
I looked like this all the time.
In other words, I coveredall of my body, but no veil.
(34:15):
Um, but, and I had many conversationswith women about wearing veils.
And I had conversations withmen about why women wear veils.
And they had a lot of interestingperspectives on it, almost
none of which I agreed with.
Butin being part of that, I knew I
had to gain respect of the men andI had to gain respect of the women
(34:38):
for me to be a good volunteer.
And to do that, I couldn't challenge them.
I could be me.
Quietly.
And as trust was built, we hadthe conversations about veils.
But it was never, oh, you shouldn't weara veil, or, boy, that was stupid to tell
(35:01):
women to wear veils for that reason.
Never, none of it, ever.
Because I had to become partof the community, they had to
trust and build respect for me.
So volunteers bring that back.
And it's about respecting individuals,whoever they are, wherever they are.
(35:23):
And find where their story is?
Then you can tell your story, andyour story might be a woman's story.
And I tell a lot of women's stories.
But you have to establish the trust first.
So you don't go in with, well, we need tomake sure we have 80 percent more women.
(35:45):
In all of my own firing, hiring,sorry, in all my own hiring, never
did I set a quota for anything.
Ever.
I just quietly attended, and Iasked others to quietly attend.
Who are the people that are applying?
(36:06):
How are you going through the process?
What is this looking like when we'recoming down to the final candidates?
To create an atmosphere of openness.
But not put quotas and not put demands.
It diminishes everyone.
Dana Rampolla (36:27):
It sounds like community building has been central,
and this is part of communitybuilding, is having people there
based on what they bring to the table.
How can institutions like UMB fostera stronger global or local community?
Jody Olse (36:44):
Let me start with the local community and UMB, that I think
you are doing increasingly well andI noted from my last years that I was
on the faculty, more and more of this.
Baltimore City and Baltimore County arepotential for wonderful communities and
Baltimore City is a city of neighborhoods,so we all know that very, very well.
(37:08):
What I think the sense of communitycomes in as the students and faculty
are doing the practicum, the practicums,the, all the work that needs to happen
in the hospitals, in the clinics, inthe schools, all over the city and the
county where the students are practicingbeing their wonderful selves as lawyers
(37:35):
and doctors and dentists and etc.
Uh, as The classroom, before thestudents go out, talking about the
community, and helping students seethat clinic, or that school, if they're
going to be doing social work, oreven come in and do some dental work,
(37:59):
uh, and nursing work, that they havein their head, this is a community.
These are people and some of thesepeople are struggling and they're
having a hard time getting their kidsto school and that woman has to take
three buses to get to the clinic.
What does that mean?
(38:19):
It's helping prepare a mindset for therespect in that clinic, in that school, in
that doctor's office, for those who comein and that they belong to a community.
And while you're there, you belongto that community with them.
(38:41):
You're part of that school.
You're part of those mothers and fathersand those kids and those teachers.
You hear and see and feel.
And I think that We at UMB create astronger presence and are more effective
(39:01):
when we provide enough holistic approachto be aware of what's happening to our
clients or our patients outside of themoment that we're interacting with them.
That's key.
Secondly, And I think this is what theuniversity has done a wonderful job
at doing, at being, doing, shaping,is bringing the schools together.
(39:27):
And I know that when I was there, wewere working, that brings, you know,
the social work and dentistry and law.
And that discovering that in a school,that the dental students would come in
one day, the social workers were there twodays, the nurses were there on a Friday.
(39:48):
Why don't they become aware of each other?
So that as they're covering theirapproach, one, they can even get together
and say, Oh my heavens, if the nurse didthis, and then the doctor did this, but
at least be aware so that they're pullingit together to be part of that community.
(40:09):
And it.
It is an important way that I thinkbuilds trust with patients and
clients and the families and theyaccomplish more and they learn more.
Now internationally, as you know,when I was there, we began a program,
(40:30):
the Global Engagement Program andworking with Virginia Rowthorn, who
runs the program now, we startedsending groups of students overseas.
But the criterion was there had to bea student from each of the six schools.
(40:51):
So the social worker, the doctor, thenurse, the pharmacist, the law, the
drug, anyway, I think I got all six.
Anyway, we all, all the studentswent together and we would have
two faculty each for two weeks.
The students were there for six weeks.
So what meant me as a social work faculty,I was overseeing the medical student.
(41:14):
During the two weeks Iwas there, for example.
Well, these six students, whether theywere looking at maternal health or
malaria, they had to do it equally.
There was no student that was incharge over any of the others, and
they had to write the final report.
integrated and together.
(41:35):
I found that an extraordinary program.
The students did too, whatthey learned from each other.
Just a quick example, we weredriving into a small town in southern
Malawi, and the dental student said,Oh, this looks like three of the
health issues in this community.
And the nursing student and themedical student turned to the
(41:58):
dental student and said, What?
How do you know?
And the dental student said,Well, I just look at their gums.
They're all chewing a sugar cane.
And I can see by the teeth andwhat is happening with the gums.
These are the problemsthat they're having.
Well, everyone else on the bus.
(42:20):
It was, oh my heavens, we'reall part of the same story.
And so as that philosophy has continuedwith the Global Engagement Center, it has
created a wonderful sense of internationalcommunity health for the students
(42:41):
at UMB and for the faculty at UMB.
So I already think that UMB isone of the national leaders in
the concept of community health.
And how we provide a holistic, integratedway in training health professionals.
Dana Rampolla (43:03):
Sure.
We do a lot of interprofessionaleducation, teaching people
how to do that, too.
So I don't think it's going away.
Jody Olse (43:12):
No, it's the, it is a particular strength, and I think it can
be a particular strength at UMB becauseof the uniqueness of the university and
what the university is there to provide.
I don't think there's any otheruniversity in the country that is
designed and set up the way UMB is.
Dana Ram (43:33):
Jody, we're, before we sign off, I'm wondering if you have one
very memorable moment from your timeas director that truly encapsulates
the spirit of the Peace Corps.
You've shared a lot of stories, whichall do that, but is there anything else
or maybe another time that really standsout that you'd like to share with us.
Jod (43:51):
When I was director the key moment I was director for three years and
it was During a very difficult time atnight, uh, 2018 to 2021, but critically,
and it was COVID and there was.
As many of us think back to Marchof 2020, which is when we all
(44:15):
appreciated that this truly was aglobal epidemic and that people were
withdrawing and being asked to withdraw.
Well, I had to make the fateful decisionthat had never been made in Peace Corps
before, was to bring home all 7, 000Peace Corps volunteers from 61 countries.
And not only from 61 countries, butfrom villages that were scattered all
(44:38):
about these 61 countries, some of themlike Mongolia, big, huge countries.
And so you don't know whenyou make that decision.
And I made it without checking,well, we made it internally in a
group process, but I was the onethat ultimately made the decision.
And you don't know what's going to happenwhen you make a decision like that.
(45:00):
And we brought them all home in nine days.
Nobody got sick, nobody gotlost, and nobody got hurt,
which truly was a miracle.
Lots and lots of lessons.
I devote a lot of time to that wholeexperience because it was wrenching.
Most difficult decision I made in my life.
(45:23):
But among the takeaways,there's a particular
part of that whole journey.
That really stands in my mind, thatfor 60 years, Peace Corps had been in
villages all over the world, sharingwho we were and learning, building
(45:46):
trust, building respect, as we taught,as we worked in clinics, as we worked
in gardens, all that we were doing.
All of a sudden,All those volunteers have to come home.
What I didn't fully appreciate untilthat moment was the gift that hundreds
(46:08):
of thousands of people all over theworld gave Peace Corps volunteers.
They said, you've been partof our lives for 60 years.
You trusted us.
And we trusted you.
We're different people because ofall of the service you have given.
The least we can do at this momentis to believe in you and believe
(46:31):
that you're going to returnand make your parting as easy
and as effective and as safe.
as humanly possible.
Presidents of countries got involved.
They reopened borders for afew hours for us to get out.
They helped find charter planes to getin when the borders were all closed.
(46:55):
They helped do all the paperwork forus when the electricity went down.
They fed volunteers asthey made their journeys.
They offered free taxi service.
Free overnight service,food, safety along the way.
Hundreds of thousands of people inall these countries said we care about
(47:19):
you because you cared about us and youwill come back and care about us again.
That moment was my appreciation of globalrespect and global trust and global love.
Community by community, personby person, student by student,
(47:43):
president by president.
Because of when we give andwhen people give back, then we
can handle global emergencies.
And I carry that and it comes backto the question you asked me earlier.
What is a community and whydo we build a community?
(48:07):
We build a community for all thatstrengthens us, but we have crises,
we have emergencies, we have needs.
And that's when the community givesback and the world gave back to us when
we had to bring the volunteers home.
And I'm forever grateful forcountries, families, headmasters,
(48:29):
farmers, all over the world.
Dana Ram (48:34):
I can only imagine the logistics and, and you said you're
also a mom, so you had to have come atthat with a little bit of a maternal
perspective, you know, like I'mresponsible for all these people and
I'm doing everything I can to securetheir safety for their families.
So thank you.
Jody Olsen (48:52):
Yeah.
And you're, yeah, Dana, you're right.
I hadn't quite thought about it that way,but as a mom and I have in the book, I
think a letter that one of the moms wroteme personally about two weeks later.
Thanking me as one mom to another andhow we were able to help bring her
daughter home safely and I cherishthat letter because for all the
(49:16):
globalness, it's one mom to another.
It's one son to another.
We're a global family.
Dana Rampolla (49:29):
Well, Jody, thank you for sharing everything you have.
Before we sign off, I would liketo ask you one last question.
What would you say to your youngerself, knowing what you know today?
You've had such a tremendousworld experience, life experience.
I'm sure you couldn't have pictured 30years ago, this is where you'd be today.
Jody Olsen (49:51):
What would I say to my younger self?
I was shy.
I was very shy.
Insecure.
I would say to my younger self two things.
One, be sure to have a mentor.
(50:11):
Ask people.
Find a couple people you believe in.
Talk to them and askthem to be there for you.
And two, I would trustmyself to take more risks.
I was afraid to take risks.
Now you want to take the rightrisks, but I would, as a, tell
(50:36):
myself, as a younger person, try it.
You know you want to do it.
Go try it.
It will be okay.
So to try and to have a mentor.
Dana Rampolla (50:53):
Great advice.
Charles, did you have any last questions?
Charles (50:58):
One of the things that I remember a professor telling me, , was
to value experiences to travel becauselike especially with what the Peace
Corps does you're seeing the world andwith all the material possessions that
you could gain nobody can take awaythose experiences of experiencing other
(51:19):
cultures, of meeting other people, ofjust knowing what life is like beyond you
know, your street or your neighborhood,and I think, you know, if if I could
have, I probably should have signed upfor the Peace Corps because of everything
that it does and just a way to see theworld and just to help other people
(51:40):
and just appreciate other perspectives.
Jody Olsen (51:44):
Let me, can I add one part to that?
Charles Schelle (51:47):
Sure.
Jody Olsen (51:48):
Because it feeds right into what you were saying.
When I was talking to Peace Corpstrainees in different countries,
part of what I said is thatyou just, you have a backpack.
Now it's a clear backpack andnobody else can see your backpack,
but you've got this backpack.
(52:10):
You're in this experience for two years.
It's a very strange experience, havingto sort another language, food, ways of
thinking, ways people treat each other.
And you're stuffing itwith these experiences.
Stuff it as full as you can get it.
(52:31):
Experience it morning, noon, and night.
Live every moment of it.
Fill that backpack.
Fill it.
So you can barely zip it up,because when you come back, you're
going to slowly be emptying thatbackpack for the rest of your life.
(52:51):
Little piece here, a little piecethere, because it is going to give
you what you need for all your life.
And it is so important when you'reyoung, and you have these moments,
put a much, put as much into itas you can, so that you have more
(53:15):
to use for the rest of your life.
Because that backpack is yours.
It's yours all your life,and you just want a lot in it
because it gives you more to use.
Dana Rampo (53:26):
Thank you, Jody, for sharing your insights and just all
of the experiences with us today.
Thank you for your visits toUMB to share on those platforms.
It's really been a privilege tolearn from your incredible journey.
Jody Ols (53:39):
Well, thank you, Dana.
Thank you, Charles.
And thank you, UMB.
I, as I have said through many partsof this conversation, it's, you all
have given me a lot of who I am.
And it's because of the caring andthe feeling of this university and the
service through education that it givesthe community in the state of Maryland.
(54:04):
So thank you.
Jena (54:11):
The UMB Pulse with Charles Schelle and Dana Rampolla is a UMB
Office of Communications and PublicAffairs production, edited by Charles
Schelle, marketing by Dana Rampolla.
On this edition of the UMB Pulse, we are thrilled to welcome Dr.
Jody Olsen.
She's a proud alumna of the Universityof Maryland School of Social
Work, and she is a distinguishedleader in global public service.
Jody served as the 20th directorof the Peace Corps, where she
oversaw transformative programs thatstrengthen communities worldwide.
If you're not familiar with thePeace Corps, it's a federal program
(00:23):
launched by President John F.
Kennedy that deploys volunteersand promotes peace and world
understanding by helping Americansassist communities solve local
challenges tied to health, education,agriculture, and the environment.
Charles Schelle (00:37):
Jody is also a founding member of UMBrella that's
UMB's initiative to support theempowerment of women in the workplace.
She continues to help UMB on theworld stage as former director
and current senior fellow of theUMB Center for Global Engagement.
With a career spanning decades ofservice and leadership, Jody continues
to inspire through her advocacy forwomen's empowerment, cross cultural
(01:00):
understanding, and global citizenship.
She is also an incrediblestoryteller as you're about to hear.
So sit back, relax, and enjoyour conversation with Dr.
Jody Olsen on the UMB Pulse.
Jena Frick (01:16):
You're listening to the heartbeat of the University of
Maryland, Baltimore, the UMB Pulse.
Dana Rampolla (01:30):
Hi, Jody.
Welcome to the UMB Pulse.
Jody Olsen (01:33):
Well, it's an honor to be here.
Thank you, Dana.
I'm thrilled.
Dan (01:38):
We are excited to have you.
Charles and I were fortunate enough lastyear you came and visited the University
of Maryland, Baltimore, where we arerecording from, and visited us and shared
a lot of really interesting informationwith us about your life journey.
And we, right away, we werelike, Oh, we've got to try to
get this lady on the Pulse.
She's terrific.
And you have such a uniquehistory and trajectory.
(02:00):
So we really look forwardto our conversation today.
Well, thank you.
And for me, it's especially wonderfulto be at the university of Maryland,
Baltimore, because as you know, myjourney, the very early parts of
my journey began on that campus.
And I love UMB.
Charles Schelle (02:19):
Well, you said it right there.
So to kick things off, let's talkabout that journey and how it started.
You've had that incredible career withthe Peace Corps, but what initially drew
you to public service and how did yourtime at the School of Social Work here
in Baltimore prepare you for that path?
Well, let me go back to when Iwas 11 years old in Salt Lake City, Utah.
(02:41):
My aunt ran Lutheran SocialServices of Salt Lake.
And back in those old days,you can take somebody to work.
And so she took her niece, me,and I was at Lutheran Social
Services for a day talking to,to social workers, seeing people.
I came away from that day with my auntat Lutheran Social Services saying,
(03:05):
I'm going to be a social worker.
11 years old.
And it, one, she was a hero to me.
Two, it helped set mypath for social work.
So we go forward many, many years, andI again graduated from the University
of Utah, became a Peace Corps volunteer.
We, um, moved to Baltimore, myhusband and I, and new baby.
(03:29):
And I knew I was going to bea social worker and where was
the School of Social Work?
It was just about eight blocksfrom where we were living.
And so I began in the School of SocialWork in 1970 and it was such a joy.
Uh, Dan Thursz was the dean, it had a lotof advocacy to it, which is what I wanted.
(03:51):
I wanted, uh, advocacy and leadershipand policy and the school shaped that
for me during my two years there.
And I am forever grateful.
for that social work training.
And I might just note that all the restof my life, people laugh and say, Oh,
(04:11):
there goes the social work part of Jody.
And I will be, even when I was inleadership meetings at Peace Corps
and we would talk about a difficulttopic and someone would say, Okay,
Jody, little clinician here, a little,we need a little clinical work.
And so it became I was, see it becamea joke, but a joke in the way that
(04:35):
people understood what had shapedme, namely social work, and that
I was carrying that forward andhonoring it in everything I did.
And sometimes people would comeinto my office and go, okay, I
need the social work part, Jody.
So it, it really has been acore for me, an anchor for me
(04:58):
for all these decades of work.
Dana Rampolla (05:00):
So once a social worker, always a social
worker, is what I'm hearing.
Jody Olsen (05:04):
That's true.
That's true.
I am grateful for, particularlyfor group work classes.
Dana Rampolla (05:09):
Back in 2006, you shared that you faced a pivotal
moment when you weren't chosenas the Peace Corps director.
So talk a little bit about how younavigated that disappointment and then
what leadership lessons you took from itthat propelled you to ultimately being.
Jody O (05:26):
I was deputy director at the time, and, uh, I had been deputy
for four years under President Bush, andthe then director, Gaddi Vasquez, left.
And I knew I wanted to be director.
I had been Senate confirmed.
It was going to be easy forthe White House to select me.
And they invited me over and said, Oh,I bet Peace Corps needs a social worker.
(05:50):
I mean, sorry, needs a Peace Corpsdirector that, you know, was a Peace Corps
volunteer and did all these good things.
And so I went out of the office, the WhiteHouse personnel office, feeling very smug.
I'm going to get this job.
Well, then two days later, theWhite House called me and said,
we want to give you a heads up.
(06:11):
We're choosing somebody else.
And.
The next day the announcement came outthat Ron Tschetter was being named Peace
Corps director, who happened to be areturned Peace Corps volunteer also.
And at that moment, I remembermy insides fell, my dream, my
dream was dashed in that moment.
(06:33):
It was never going to happen.
It could not happen.
And I sat there and Ithought, what do I do?
I can get angry.
I can resign.
I can do a bunch of things.
And then I thought, no, thisis what I'm going to do.
I love Peace Corps.
So I found Ron Tschetter's email.
(06:54):
And ten minutes later, I senthim a note and I said, I know
you know that I wanted this job.
I wanted to be director.
But I want to tell you, I'm here for you.
I will do everything to support you.
Congratulations.
I'm excited for you.
(07:14):
Let's go forward.
That was hard, that was really hard.
So he came and became Peace CorpsDirector about two, three weeks later.
And he and I had a fabulous time.
We became good friends.
And I appreciated that we alwayshave to keep a larger sense of
(07:38):
what is meant to be and who we are.
It's not about the person.
And I knew I could keep giving.
And I was even more enrichedby being able to be a deputy
to Ron and let go of yourself.
I learned as a leader, let go of yourself.
(07:58):
It's not about you.
Dana Rampo (08:01):
That's great advice.
No matter what age you are or whatpath of life you've found yourself
down, you know, that's terrific.
Thank you for sharing that.
How many years did you wind upworking under him or with him?
Jody Olse (08:14):
I worked with Ron for about three years until, uh, the the
next president came in, Obama camein, and I then actually got to be
acting director for eight months.
And so I, I got to practice in thatchair after Ron Tschetter left.
But it is again, you, when you believe inan organization, you believe in a purpose.
(08:41):
Let yourself go.
Charles Schelle (08:44):
Yeah, as you said, you know, it takes, it
takes some grace under pressure.
, or grace under fire sometimes, to,to realize what the mission is and,
and what your role and everything is.
And winding the clock back, to, , theeighties, , in your book, A Million
My Peace Corps Journey plenty,plenty of great stories in it.
(09:04):
And one chapter , "And the Wall CameTumbling Down," tells about your
story and your, , time in EasternEurope when these countries were
trying to transition to democracy.
Could you share a story from thattime that highlights the Peace Corps
impact to those folks out there?
Jody O (09:21):
Uh, let me give one, uh, particular story, uh, you're right,
Charles, this was about 1989, 1990, andanybody that goes back to the history
books knows that it's when the wallfell, uh, East Germany ceased being
a country and the rest of Centraland Eastern Europe became closer and
(09:43):
closer to the West and left the East.
And one reference I'll make is in Romania.
Romania had been under a verystrong dictatorship for a number
of years under the Ceausescus, andit was grim, grim, and nobody even
knew what was going on in Romania.
It was so locked down anda frightening place to be.
(10:09):
Well, the Ceausescus met their demise, Ibelieve, on Christmas Day when they were
both killed, and so suddenly Romania hadto decide what it was and who it was.
And they invited PeaceCorps for us to visit.
So Paul Coverdell, the then PeaceCorps director and I, chief of
staff at that time, went to Romania.
(10:31):
And we visited, uh, orphanage.
And because the country had beenencouraging children, but not
necessarily staying with their families.
And so they had, uh, many orphanages andthe thought was that we would work in
orphanages to help work with the children.
Well, we were visiting this orphanageand the walls had just been painted
(10:54):
beautifully white, but there was nothing.
There were no toys.
There were no, nothing on the walls.
It was stark, stark, stark.
And so the headmaster, as we finishedthe tour, came back and he looked
at Paul and me and said, I'm sosorry, you see nothing on the walls.
(11:16):
There are nothing on, there'snothing on the walls yet.
Because we took down all thephotos of the Ceausescus.
We took down all the awfulness that wehave been living the last few years.
But we don't know whatto put on the walls.
And so they're whitebecause we can't decide yet.
What goes on the walls of an orphanage?
And then he looked at me andhe said, This is like our mind.
(11:42):
We've taken the past out of our mind.
But we don't know whatto put in our minds.
Our minds are blank.
Our minds are empty.
You can help fill what we need toput in our minds, and I'm always
have been in awe with that becauseI appreciate the opportunities for
(12:06):
growth, but how when you have thatkind of a change, your mind's empty,
and you're susceptible, and it's importantto be there in a way that gives you the
growth and the strength and the buildingof democracy that can be so important.
Dana Rampolla (12:25):
Can you share some specifics of what you did?
Jody O (12:28):
Well, in Romania, it was again working in the orphanages, but very
quickly we moved to English, but let megive a Poland story, which is a one where
we could see what actually happened.
In Poland, we met with the Minister ofEducation, uh, right after the fall.
(12:48):
It was the third week in October of 1989.
And he said to us, two things.
One, people have been coming in theselast few weeks and promising us things.
And then they don't come back.
Second, he said, don't see usas we are now, because as Poles,
(13:15):
this is not who we can be.
Be with us.
We're not who we are now.
So we described in that evening, inhis cold little room with one light,
setting up an English program to retrainteachers in Poland to teach English.
(13:36):
Well, by a luck little over a year later,we were able, Paul and I were able to
go back to Poland, and we were meetingwith the minister and the deputy minister
and the ambassador, and sorry, the firststory was with the deputy minister.
(13:56):
So we were in the room in theambassadors, American ambassadors room.
Talking about all the good things thatwere happening and Peace Corps volunteers
there are 120 volunteers there at the timeand all of a sudden the deputy minister
stood up and he said, Minister, Mr.
Minister, Mr.
Ambassador, I have something to say,and he walked briskly over to the wall,
(14:18):
the ambassador's wall, which had a hugemap of Poland on it, and he said, Let
me point out 13 English training centersacross this country, where we are taking
high school graduates, where they'regetting the AA degrees in English, and we
(14:38):
have two or three Peace Corps volunteersin every one of these centers, and they
are helping write the curriculum for us.
And then he turned and he looked at Pauland me, and he said, It was just over
a year ago that you were in my office,and you made a promise that Peace
(15:02):
Corps would not let us down.
You promised.
And because of that promise, I wasable to go ahead and create and get
ready and get money for these centers,because your volunteers came and taught.
(15:24):
And look where we are today.
Paul Coverdell, the Peace Corpsdirector, who's very straight laced.
I looked at him and hehad tears in his eyes.
I went, oh my heavens.
But that's what you can do whenyou work with people and have
people believe in themselves.
(15:46):
That part was also very important tome to write for the book because I was
watching the beginnings of democracy.
I was watching people whowere finding their own voices.
The mayors in Poland whosaid to volunteers, we've
always had responsibility.
(16:06):
We've never had any authority.
Now we can really create, create a city.
We can create a community.
We can build what we need to build.
This is a first.
And so I hope that this particularpart of the book reminds all of
us of how to trust ourselves andas communities what we can build.
Charles (16:33):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
And especially With all the conflictsgoing on around the world, and there's
a lot of change happening in countriesaround the globe that shows you that
if we band together and help oneanother, that the world will be a
better place as as corny as that sounds.
It's true that we can make it abetter life for someone else, and
(16:59):
they just need a little inspirationand trust to make that happen.
Jody Olsen (17:03):
Right?
Because we can help them trust themselves.
We don't tell and shouldnot tell people what to do.
It is working with them to helpbe a catalyst for what they
know they can do for themselves.
Dana Rampolla (17:20):
Jody, I know that also another area that's important
to you is women's empowerment.
You were one of the foundingmembers here at UMB of UMBrella.
I'm wondering if you could take a minuteto talk about some barriers that you may
have faced as a woman in your leadershiprole, and if there were any mentors
or allies who kind of supported you,influenced you, helped you along the way.
J (17:44):
I was very lucky to feel that I had mentors all along the way and the,
a couple of the faculty at the School ofSocial Work were very helpful for me and
had me keep going and, you know, jugglinga baby and pregnant with a second.
And how do you hold allthose pieces together?
(18:04):
And again, this was the 1970s and Iremember when we were meeting right
about that time with the governor'soffice about nursing homes and because
I was on the governor's nursing homecommission as an assistant, and I walked
(18:25):
into the office and he looked at me andhe said, Oh, how far pregnant are you?
I said, well, I'm seven monthspregnant, just about ready to deliver.
And he said, well, you know, legallyin Maryland, you can't work after
the third month of pregnancy.
I was surprised.
I looked at him and I went, okay,what are you going to do about it?
(18:49):
We went on.
Uh, but it was such a jarring momentof being discriminated against, but not
wanting to scream and yell about it.
I mean, I was so taken aback,but I thought, okay, I'm sure
that nothing's going to happenand we'll all just move on.
(19:10):
So let's just acknowledge it move on.
Dana Ram (19:13):
So nothing did happen?
Jody (19:14):
Oh, no, nothing happened.
But the, uh, one of the key mentors forme was Loret Ruppe, who was a Peace Corps
director for eight years in the '80s.
And it was an example of a woman who,um, came from a very wealthy family in
Upper Peninsula, Michigan, whose husbandhad been a congressman for 12 years,
(19:38):
mothered five girls in about seven years,and hadn't officially worked, as the term
went, before she became the Peace Corpsdirector, put in place by President Bush.
And we all went, oh my heavens,this is going to be terrible.
I'm sorry, not by Bush,by President Reagan.
And She doesn't know what she's doing, youknow, and we, we all had a picture of what
(20:03):
a woman with that background would be.
Well, she became one of the strongestPeace Corps directors, fighter for
Peace Corps, overcame the, some of thefolks in the Reagan White House that
were what we would call neocons, andfought for the independence of Peace
(20:26):
Corps and actually got the independenceof Peace Corps through Congress.
I worked for her for three yearsand then became one of her closest
friends for the next four years.
And her steelyness,combined with her charm,
she never gave up.
(20:46):
And later, when I became PeaceCorps director, I was thinking,
Loret, Loret, what are your words?
She unfortunately died early of cancer,but I just put her in my head with the
steeliness and yet the gentleness and thesmiles that are necessary, not combative.
(21:11):
But firm and steely.
And I always took her with me after the1980s.
Dana Rampolla (21:22):
Wonderful.
So not only a social worker, buta true-at-heart politician, too.
Jody Olsen (21:27):
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
No, I come from a political background.
I have a pretty good idea whatpolitics are about and what
you're saying, what you don't say.
And, you know, and as a woman, it'simportant to really understand that.
Let me give a quick a storyfrom when I was deputy director
and I was in Mauritania.
And in Mauritania, a Muslimcountry, middle of Sahara desert,
(21:53):
and you picture all that that is.
And we were in the eveningout in the desert visiting
with a group of volunteers.
at a volunteer's mother-in-law'shouse, a Mauritanian house.
And a staff person came to me, this isnow about nine o'clock at night, and
(22:15):
says, oh, the minister of education is inthis little village visiting his family.
And he's in this little, one-roomhotel, and he would like to meet you
because you won't have a chance tomeet in the capital city, Nouakchott.
So can he just officially meet you here?
And then the staff person said, 'Don'tworry, it's after hours.' He might be in
(22:40):
jeans, so he's not wearing his outfit.
So, you know, you don't need to dressup, you don't need to do anything,
this is just a casual say hello andsay thank you and praise him and he'll
praise you and we do those usual things.
So, I said sure.
And so now it's ten o'clock, a littleafter ten o'clock, and the Peace Corps car
(23:01):
drives up to this little itsy bitsy hotel.
And let's say I'm not looking likeI would've looked if I was at ten
o'clock in the morning in Nouakchott.
And we got outta the car and I turnedto the, to the staff person and I
said, well, should I wear a headscarf?
And he said, oh my heaven.
No, this is all after hours.
(23:22):
So I started walking to the hoteldoor and then I returned and I
said to the staff person, 'no, I'mgonna put on the headscarf.' That's
important to put on the headscarf.
So I put on the headscarf, wewent in, there he was, casual,
stayed an hour, chatted.
I was drawing up my 40 words of Arabic anda few words of French from my own Peace
(23:47):
Corps time, and we had a wonderful time.
All right, well, the next day,the staff person came up to me and
he said, let me tell you what theminister said to me after you left.
He said to me, Thank you.
Thank Jody for wearing the headscarf.
(24:08):
He said, I know she didn't need to,but she did it out of honor and respect.
And that means so much to me, but moreimportantly, it means so much to our
country and our culture for him, forher to choose to wear the headscarf.
(24:32):
What I took from that was,as a woman, around the world,
cultures, countries, societies,have different roles for women.
And where we are, I'm speakingfor myself now, an American
woman playing a leadership role.
(24:55):
in a different society.
And I understood that Iwas not a woman first.
I was the Peace Corps senior leader first.
And my role in meeting with leaders fromother countries was about Peace Corps.
It was not about me being a woman.
(25:17):
I happened to be a woman and Iwas proud of being a woman, but I
needed to honor Peace Corps first.
And so it meant that I would do my bestto honor the traditions of the country.
Even if those traditions did not have awomen's role the way I thought a woman's
(25:39):
role should be, but it wasn't me atthat time to teach about women's roles.
It was me at that time to honor theculture, the leaders, the country, and put
myself as a woman in the background so Icould keep Peace Corps in the foreground.
(26:04):
And that's been really important to meto always remember, and when I, excuse
me, when I worked with Congress also,how do I honor the congressperson?
Me as a woman is second, itis Peace Corps comes first.
(26:28):
And I think that women and womenleaders can do more for that role
by not accentuating that role,but by being something, a person
that blends into a larger wholethat that person is representing.
Charles (26:54):
It sounds like, , that that's your big takeaway for learning
about women's empowerment through likedifferent cultural context, right?
Jody Olsen (27:02):
Yes.
Charles Schelle (27:03):
Recognizing and respecting the culture, as you said,
and, acknowledging what your, what yourmission is, because if you're there,
basically on a business trip, you stillhave to , get business done, right?
Jody Olsen (27:17):
Right.
And even if it's wanting to bring in morePeace Corps volunteers or opening a new
program, the minute that I walked intothe room, Oh, my heavens, there they go
in the USA of a woman as a director forwhatever they wanted to say or think.
Well, I needed to get rid of that asa first thought and Peace Corps as a
(27:41):
first thought, because I think it helpswhat the takeaway is, is valuing women.
Because you're there equally talking aboutwhatever it is you need to talk about.
You're having an equal conversation.
Charles Schelle (28:00):
Right.
And, and speaking about equality, there'sa 2023 Global Gender Gap Report where
the United States ranks only 43rd outof 146 countries for gender equality.
So, based on your experience asformer Peace Corps, uh, Director,
why do you think that is?
Why do you think the UnitedStates falls so far behind other
(28:23):
developed countries in that area?
Jody Olsen (28:29):
Good question.
Part of it is, how do we think aboutwhat equality means and what is it?
How do we have a conversation thattries to take gender stuff out of it?
At the same time, and this is where I'mgoing to put in a plug for University
(28:49):
of Maryland Baltimore, to know whichis professional schools, and a lot of
the professional schools are schoolsthat traditionally are male, um,
dominated when you think of medicineand pharmacy and law in particularly.
And yet the University of MarylandBaltimore has more women students in every
(29:13):
one of the schools than men at this time.
But what I found when I was on thefaculty there, um, you know, up until
about eight years ago, was a sense ofnone of this matters is how we treat
(29:35):
each other equally as professionalstalking to professionals to service
healthcare in the state of Maryland.
And I know that some people are going todisagree with me and probably many people
are going to disagree with me, but I feelcreating a room of comfort for everyone
(30:03):
is where the value of the woman comes.
Space together is not a competitionand it takes time to help overcome
that and feel comfortable thata woman can play an equal role,
which she can't, by the way.
(30:23):
But to do that, don't setit up as a competition.
And I feel that part of that renewal ofthat, I always felt at the University of
Maryland, Baltimore at UMB, and it wasa gift I tried to then give back again
(30:45):
with Peace Corps when I became director.
of just treating people asindividually wonderful people.
Now, that sounds a little strange.
It's kind of not a way that we try to comeout, come at furthering women's rights.
(31:05):
But we, for me, we have to get ridof the competition and help both men
and women feel comfortable with eachother to More equal what we do in the
workplace and the jobs that we get.
Dana Rampolla (31:23):
Jody, would you say doing that is just kind of
purporting that it's a place ofnormalcy, not drawing attention to it?
Jody Olsen (31:30):
You got it.
It's a place of normalcy.
Dana, you said it really well, thatit's not about me being a woman.
It's not about youbeing a man or whatever.
We're two people workingto solve this problem.
And as we don't think about it, then it'seasier to choose the best person, the
(31:51):
person who suits that situation, and notthink about Oh, I need to get five more
women just because I have to meet a goal.
To me, that's a disservice to thewomen and a disservice to the men.
It's building comforter, comfortablenessin making it almost neutral.
(32:12):
I mean, we're not the same.
I know that.
It's creating individual respectregardless of whom that person is.
You can tell I come froma Peace Corps background.
Dana Ra (32:25):
Well, I'm just going to say, I'm going to go on a little bit
of a limb here asking you, do you feelas if that is the vantage point that
the Peace Corps currently operates?
I wonder, I feel like we're in a placeright now, societally, where we are
keeping tabs, we are counting numbers.
What's your perception as anoutside view, looking back?
Jody Ols (32:46):
Well, as a Peace Corps volunteer, and there are 250, 000 returned
Peace Corps volunteers right now, andactually now in Peace Corps, about two
thirds are women, and one third are men.
Uh, in the beginning, it wastwo thirds men, one third women.
So there's been an evolution.
But I think to your question,Dana, is when a volunteer goes
(33:09):
into a community, that volunteerbecomes part of that community.
You learn the language, you livewith the host family, you eat the
food, you take the kids to market,you teach them in the classroom.
It doesn't matter whetheryou're a man or a woman, and
the community is watching you.
(33:30):
So as a woman, if you'rea woman volunteer, you're
being a A cultural person.
Well, what happens to the volunteer,what happened to me, is I gained respect
for myself in a way that I didn't haveto put it out there because I had gone
(33:53):
through the Peace Corps experience.
All right.
For example.
I was in an Arab society,and women wore veils.
Peace Corps volunteers didn't wearveils, so I didn't wear a veil, although
I looked like this all the time.
In other words, I coveredall of my body, but no veil.
(34:15):
Um, but, and I had many conversationswith women about wearing veils.
And I had conversations withmen about why women wear veils.
And they had a lot of interestingperspectives on it, almost
none of which I agreed with.
Butin being part of that, I knew I
had to gain respect of the men andI had to gain respect of the women
(34:38):
for me to be a good volunteer.
And to do that, I couldn't challenge them.
I could be me.
Quietly.
And as trust was built, we hadthe conversations about veils.
But it was never, oh, you shouldn't weara veil, or, boy, that was stupid to tell
(35:01):
women to wear veils for that reason.
Never, none of it, ever.
Because I had to become partof the community, they had to
trust and build respect for me.
So volunteers bring that back.
And it's about respecting individuals,whoever they are, wherever they are.
(35:23):
And find where their story is?
Then you can tell your story, andyour story might be a woman's story.
And I tell a lot of women's stories.
But you have to establish the trust first.
So you don't go in with, well, we need tomake sure we have 80 percent more women.
(35:45):
In all of my own firing, hiring,sorry, in all my own hiring, never
did I set a quota for anything.
Ever.
I just quietly attended, and Iasked others to quietly attend.
Who are the people that are applying?
(36:06):
How are you going through the process?
What is this looking like when we'recoming down to the final candidates?
To create an atmosphere of openness.
But not put quotas and not put demands.
It diminishes everyone.
Dana Rampolla (36:27):
It sounds like community building has been central,
and this is part of communitybuilding, is having people there
based on what they bring to the table.
How can institutions like UMB fostera stronger global or local community?
Jody Olse (36:44):
Let me start with the local community and UMB, that I think
you are doing increasingly well andI noted from my last years that I was
on the faculty, more and more of this.
Baltimore City and Baltimore County arepotential for wonderful communities and
Baltimore City is a city of neighborhoods,so we all know that very, very well.
(37:08):
What I think the sense of communitycomes in as the students and faculty
are doing the practicum, the practicums,the, all the work that needs to happen
in the hospitals, in the clinics, inthe schools, all over the city and the
county where the students are practicingbeing their wonderful selves as lawyers
(37:35):
and doctors and dentists and etc.
Uh, as The classroom, before thestudents go out, talking about the
community, and helping students seethat clinic, or that school, if they're
going to be doing social work, oreven come in and do some dental work,
(37:59):
uh, and nursing work, that they havein their head, this is a community.
These are people and some of thesepeople are struggling and they're
having a hard time getting their kidsto school and that woman has to take
three buses to get to the clinic.
What does that mean?
(38:19):
It's helping prepare a mindset for therespect in that clinic, in that school, in
that doctor's office, for those who comein and that they belong to a community.
And while you're there, you belongto that community with them.
(38:41):
You're part of that school.
You're part of those mothers and fathersand those kids and those teachers.
You hear and see and feel.
And I think that We at UMB create astronger presence and are more effective
(39:01):
when we provide enough holistic approachto be aware of what's happening to our
clients or our patients outside of themoment that we're interacting with them.
That's key.
Secondly, And I think this is what theuniversity has done a wonderful job
at doing, at being, doing, shaping,is bringing the schools together.
(39:27):
And I know that when I was there, wewere working, that brings, you know,
the social work and dentistry and law.
And that discovering that in a school,that the dental students would come in
one day, the social workers were there twodays, the nurses were there on a Friday.
(39:48):
Why don't they become aware of each other?
So that as they're covering theirapproach, one, they can even get together
and say, Oh my heavens, if the nurse didthis, and then the doctor did this, but
at least be aware so that they're pullingit together to be part of that community.
(40:09):
And it.
It is an important way that I thinkbuilds trust with patients and
clients and the families and theyaccomplish more and they learn more.
Now internationally, as you know,when I was there, we began a program,
(40:30):
the Global Engagement Program andworking with Virginia Rowthorn, who
runs the program now, we startedsending groups of students overseas.
But the criterion was there had to bea student from each of the six schools.
(40:51):
So the social worker, the doctor, thenurse, the pharmacist, the law, the
drug, anyway, I think I got all six.
Anyway, we all, all the studentswent together and we would have
two faculty each for two weeks.
The students were there for six weeks.
So what meant me as a social work faculty,I was overseeing the medical student.
(41:14):
During the two weeks Iwas there, for example.
Well, these six students, whether theywere looking at maternal health or
malaria, they had to do it equally.
There was no student that was incharge over any of the others, and
they had to write the final report.
integrated and together.
(41:35):
I found that an extraordinary program.
The students did too, whatthey learned from each other.
Just a quick example, we weredriving into a small town in southern
Malawi, and the dental student said,Oh, this looks like three of the
health issues in this community.
And the nursing student and themedical student turned to the
(41:58):
dental student and said, What?
How do you know?
And the dental student said,Well, I just look at their gums.
They're all chewing a sugar cane.
And I can see by the teeth andwhat is happening with the gums.
These are the problemsthat they're having.
Well, everyone else on the bus.
(42:20):
It was, oh my heavens, we'reall part of the same story.
And so as that philosophy has continuedwith the Global Engagement Center, it has
created a wonderful sense of internationalcommunity health for the students
(42:41):
at UMB and for the faculty at UMB.
So I already think that UMB isone of the national leaders in
the concept of community health.
And how we provide a holistic, integratedway in training health professionals.
Dana Rampolla (43:03):
Sure.
We do a lot of interprofessionaleducation, teaching people
how to do that, too.
So I don't think it's going away.
Jody Olse (43:12):
No, it's the, it is a particular strength, and I think it can
be a particular strength at UMB becauseof the uniqueness of the university and
what the university is there to provide.
I don't think there's any otheruniversity in the country that is
designed and set up the way UMB is.
Dana Ram (43:33):
Jody, we're, before we sign off, I'm wondering if you have one
very memorable moment from your timeas director that truly encapsulates
the spirit of the Peace Corps.
You've shared a lot of stories, whichall do that, but is there anything else
or maybe another time that really standsout that you'd like to share with us.
Jod (43:51):
When I was director the key moment I was director for three years and
it was During a very difficult time atnight, uh, 2018 to 2021, but critically,
and it was COVID and there was.
As many of us think back to Marchof 2020, which is when we all
(44:15):
appreciated that this truly was aglobal epidemic and that people were
withdrawing and being asked to withdraw.
Well, I had to make the fateful decisionthat had never been made in Peace Corps
before, was to bring home all 7, 000Peace Corps volunteers from 61 countries.
And not only from 61 countries, butfrom villages that were scattered all
(44:38):
about these 61 countries, some of themlike Mongolia, big, huge countries.
And so you don't know whenyou make that decision.
And I made it without checking,well, we made it internally in a
group process, but I was the onethat ultimately made the decision.
And you don't know what's going to happenwhen you make a decision like that.
(45:00):
And we brought them all home in nine days.
Nobody got sick, nobody gotlost, and nobody got hurt,
which truly was a miracle.
Lots and lots of lessons.
I devote a lot of time to that wholeexperience because it was wrenching.
Most difficult decision I made in my life.
(45:23):
But among the takeaways,there's a particular
part of that whole journey.
That really stands in my mind, thatfor 60 years, Peace Corps had been in
villages all over the world, sharingwho we were and learning, building
(45:46):
trust, building respect, as we taught,as we worked in clinics, as we worked
in gardens, all that we were doing.
All of a sudden,All those volunteers have to come home.
What I didn't fully appreciate untilthat moment was the gift that hundreds
(46:08):
of thousands of people all over theworld gave Peace Corps volunteers.
They said, you've been partof our lives for 60 years.
You trusted us.
And we trusted you.
We're different people because ofall of the service you have given.
The least we can do at this momentis to believe in you and believe
(46:31):
that you're going to returnand make your parting as easy
and as effective and as safe.
as humanly possible.
Presidents of countries got involved.
They reopened borders for afew hours for us to get out.
They helped find charter planes to getin when the borders were all closed.
(46:55):
They helped do all the paperwork forus when the electricity went down.
They fed volunteers asthey made their journeys.
They offered free taxi service.
Free overnight service,food, safety along the way.
Hundreds of thousands of people inall these countries said we care about
(47:19):
you because you cared about us and youwill come back and care about us again.
That moment was my appreciation of globalrespect and global trust and global love.
Community by community, personby person, student by student,
(47:43):
president by president.
Because of when we give andwhen people give back, then we
can handle global emergencies.
And I carry that and it comes backto the question you asked me earlier.
What is a community and whydo we build a community?
(48:07):
We build a community for all thatstrengthens us, but we have crises,
we have emergencies, we have needs.
And that's when the community givesback and the world gave back to us when
we had to bring the volunteers home.
And I'm forever grateful forcountries, families, headmasters,
(48:29):
farmers, all over the world.
Dana Ram (48:34):
I can only imagine the logistics and, and you said you're
also a mom, so you had to have come atthat with a little bit of a maternal
perspective, you know, like I'mresponsible for all these people and
I'm doing everything I can to securetheir safety for their families.
So thank you.
Jody Olsen (48:52):
Yeah.
And you're, yeah, Dana, you're right.
I hadn't quite thought about it that way,but as a mom and I have in the book, I
think a letter that one of the moms wroteme personally about two weeks later.
Thanking me as one mom to another andhow we were able to help bring her
daughter home safely and I cherishthat letter because for all the
(49:16):
globalness, it's one mom to another.
It's one son to another.
We're a global family.
Dana Rampolla (49:29):
Well, Jody, thank you for sharing everything you have.
Before we sign off, I would liketo ask you one last question.
What would you say to your youngerself, knowing what you know today?
You've had such a tremendousworld experience, life experience.
I'm sure you couldn't have pictured 30years ago, this is where you'd be today.
Jody Olsen (49:51):
What would I say to my younger self?
I was shy.
I was very shy.
Insecure.
I would say to my younger self two things.
One, be sure to have a mentor.
(50:11):
Ask people.
Find a couple people you believe in.
Talk to them and askthem to be there for you.
And two, I would trustmyself to take more risks.
I was afraid to take risks.
Now you want to take the rightrisks, but I would, as a, tell
(50:36):
myself, as a younger person, try it.
You know you want to do it.
Go try it.
It will be okay.
So to try and to have a mentor.
Dana Rampolla (50:53):
Great advice.
Charles, did you have any last questions?
Charles (50:58):
One of the things that I remember a professor telling me, , was
to value experiences to travel becauselike especially with what the Peace
Corps does you're seeing the world andwith all the material possessions that
you could gain nobody can take awaythose experiences of experiencing other
(51:19):
cultures, of meeting other people, ofjust knowing what life is like beyond you
know, your street or your neighborhood,and I think, you know, if if I could
have, I probably should have signed upfor the Peace Corps because of everything
that it does and just a way to see theworld and just to help other people
(51:40):
and just appreciate other perspectives.
Jody Olsen (51:44):
Let me, can I add one part to that?
Charles Schelle (51:47):
Sure.
Jody Olsen (51:48):
Because it feeds right into what you were saying.
When I was talking to Peace Corpstrainees in different countries,
part of what I said is thatyou just, you have a backpack.
Now it's a clear backpack andnobody else can see your backpack,
but you've got this backpack.
(52:10):
You're in this experience for two years.
It's a very strange experience, havingto sort another language, food, ways of
thinking, ways people treat each other.
And you're stuffing itwith these experiences.
Stuff it as full as you can get it.
(52:31):
Experience it morning, noon, and night.
Live every moment of it.
Fill that backpack.
Fill it.
So you can barely zip it up,because when you come back, you're
going to slowly be emptying thatbackpack for the rest of your life.
(52:51):
Little piece here, a little piecethere, because it is going to give
you what you need for all your life.
And it is so important when you'reyoung, and you have these moments,
put a much, put as much into itas you can, so that you have more
(53:15):
to use for the rest of your life.
Because that backpack is yours.
It's yours all your life,and you just want a lot in it
because it gives you more to use.
Dana Rampo (53:26):
Thank you, Jody, for sharing your insights and just all
of the experiences with us today.
Thank you for your visits toUMB to share on those platforms.
It's really been a privilege tolearn from your incredible journey.
Jody Ols (53:39):
Well, thank you, Dana.
Thank you, Charles.
And thank you, UMB.
I, as I have said through many partsof this conversation, it's, you all
have given me a lot of who I am.
And it's because of the caring andthe feeling of this university and the
service through education that it givesthe community in the state of Maryland.
(54:04):
So thank you.
Jena (54:11):
The UMB Pulse with Charles Schelle and Dana Rampolla is a UMB
Office of Communications and PublicAffairs production, edited by Charles
Schelle, marketing by Dana Rampolla.
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