September 5, 2025 • 50 mins
University of Maryland School of Dentistry alumnus Robert E. Morris, DDS ’69, MPH, FICD, shares his extraordinary life story that spans continents, including his experiences treating villagers in Vietnam, building public health systems in Kuwait, and training oral health leaders in the Caribbean.
The recipient of a University of Maryland, Baltimore honorary Doctor of Public Service degree recounts his harrowing survival during the invasion of Kuwait, detailed in his book “120 Days in Deep Hiding: Outwitting the Iraqis in Occupied Kuwait.” He also discusses his philanthropic efforts with the Mai Tam House of Hope in Vietnam, which serves mothers and children affected by HIV/AIDS, and reflects on the Jesuit values that have guided his career.
Morris also wrote an autobiography, "The Life of My Choice: Tales of a Traveling Man."
00:00 Introduction to Dr. Robert E. Morris
02:27 Early Life and Education
05:39 Career Beginnings and Vietnam Experience
08:39 Global Health Leadership and Public Health
14:49 The Kuwait Invasion and Survival
26:59 Saddam Hussein's Announcement and Hostage Situation
27:30 Near-Plane Crash and Journey to Safety
28:52 Movie Offer and General Schwartzkoff's Invasion
29:17 Reunion at Andrews Air Force Base
31:33 Founding the Mai Tam House in Vietnam
34:50 Impact and Success of the Orphanage
41:29 Encouraging Future Generations in Dentistry
45:36 Lifelong Learning and Irish Studies
48:29 Publishing Books and Final Thoughts
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Visit our website at umaryland.edu/pulse or email us at umbpulse@umaryland.edu.
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Episode Transcript
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Dana (00:00):
Charles, you know, one of the best things of hosting this podcast
is getting to sit down with peoplewhose lives kind of read like a novel.
Charles Sche (00:07):
That's right, Dana and today's guest is exactly that.
His story spans continents,decades, and some of the most
dramatic moments in modern history.
Dana Rampolla (00:17):
Sure does.
We're talking about Dr. Robert E. Morris.
He's a 1969 graduate of the Universityof Maryland School of Dentistry, and
one of this year's recipients of UMB'shonorary doctor of public service degree.
Now, you might hear us a couple oftimes, refer to ourselves as Maryland
or University of Maryland during thisprogram, and I just wanna remind you.
(00:38):
This is coming to you from University ofMaryland, Baltimore, also known as UMB,
Charles Schelle (00:43):
His career has taken him from treating villagers
in Vietnam to building public healthsystems in Kuwait to training the
next generation of oral healthleaders in the Caribbean and beyond.
Dana Rampoll (00:54):
And along the way, he's faced life changing challenges,
including surviving four monthsin hiding during the invasion of
Kuwait, which he later wrote aboutin his book, 120 Days in Deep Hiding.
Charles Schelle (01:07):
He's also a, a philanthropist who with
his wife, co-founded the MaiTam House of Hope in Vietnam.
They serve mothers and childrenaffected by, HIV and aids.
Dana Rampol (01:18):
And through it all, he's lived by the Jesuit values.
They were instilled in him at HolyCross up in Boston, and he carried
this with him throughout his life,during his time at UMB and and beyond.
And he reminds us that weall have to do hard things.
Charles Schelle (01:34):
I think our listeners are going to find
Robert's story inspiring and, andhumbling a great person to talk to.
So let's dive in and hearfrom this month's changemaker.
Jena Frick (01:51):
You are listening to the heartbeat of the University of
Maryland, Baltimore, the UMB Pulse.
Dana Rampo (02:05):
Dr. Morris, welcome.
It's such a privilege tohave you with us today.
Robert Morri (02:09):
Thank you all too.
Thank you for inviting me andgiving me the opportunity to,
discuss the many aspects of mycareer since I left the University
of Maryland school of Dentistry.
Yes.
Thank you very much.
Dana Rampolla (02:21):
Well, let's start at the beginning, shall we?
Where did you, youmentioned the dental school.
Where did you go to college?
And how did those early experiencesshape your philosophy of service?
Robert Morris (02:33):
I went to college of the Holy Cross.
That's in Worcester, Massachusetts.
It's a Jesuit school, Catholic, of course.
And they have a particularphilosophy which we can discuss.
It's to be in service to others,shall we say, loosely translated
in order to be in service to God.
So they didn't talk about that much wayback when I graduated, it became much
(02:55):
more prevalent in the 2000 let's say.
With the new worldwide director, hethought the Jesuit should think that way.
And so it's pushed very hard nowadays, butI absorbed it and I use it now in my life.
Dana Rampolla (03:13):
And what a great motto to live by.
You mentioned Holy Cross following.
Holy Cross.
What was your degree there?
And then how did you wind up atUniversity of Maryland, Baltimore?
Robert (03:24):
Well, my degree was in.
Classics pre-med, so that'sLatin and Greek and pre-meds.
I avoided math 'causethey told me I was stupid.
Jesus.
But I was originallyin, in a German track.
I kinda, which leads into mycareer, I kind of looked at
travel and diplomacy early on.
It was a period of JFK, it wasahead of time in our lives.
(03:45):
JFK was from Boston.
Of course, I'm from Boston.
And I thought that's away I could be of service.
It would be language and diplomacy abroad.
I always thought about that,but it didn't work out that way.
I changed into what they call classicspre-med, and that led me to the University
of Maryland Dental School for differentreasons, but I knew it was a good school.
(04:07):
I also knew that it wouldn'tbankrupt my parents.
We had a big family.
Dental school in the privateschools like Tufts and Harvard
were prohibitive as they are now.
So in the end, I was very gladand happy to go to the University
of Maryland School of Dentistry.
Dana Rampolla (04:26):
And you got your DDS in 1969?
Robert Morris (04:29):
Correct.
Dana Rampolla (04:30):
How did your time at the School of Dentistry
influenced your career?
Robert Mo (04:34):
It's a good question.
And it can be answeredI think in two ways.
My understanding of the school wasthat it was a good school to go to
for clinical experience, clinicalpractice, and that held up true.
I I was good enough in clinical dentistry.
And that was all learned at Maryland.
But later on I joined the facultyand I was exposed to, professor Ernie
(05:00):
Moreland, PhD in education who wastrying to move the dental school away
from a sort of CD of Pat's lecturingsystem to a more scientifically based
pedagogical approach to teaching.
So I embraced that maybe morethan anyone else I know in
the school, and that led into.
(05:23):
A consulting position with theWorld Health Organization in the
Caribbean initially for two yearsand then it extended on for 10 years.
Charles Schell (05:33):
Dr. Morris, your career took you to, to Vietnam.
Kuwait, Trinidad andTobago and, and beyond.
And, and.
I do wanna ask you about, thoseexperiences about, you know, what
most shaped you as a leader in globalhealth and dentistry, but you also
told us beforehand you have somethingthat you wanna share with us and read
that helps , set the stage for that.
Robert Morris (05:53):
Yes.
It, it will help set the stage.
So, thinking of my career I like to quoteNew England's favorite poet, Robert Frost.
He wrote the poem, the RoadNot Taken, beautiful poem.
And here's a little short excerpt.
I should be telling this with asigh somewhere, ages and ages.
(06:14):
Hence two roads diverged in the woodsand I, I took the one less travel by
and that has made all the difference.
So I think that leadsinto my career trajectory.
Charles Schelle (06:30):
Absolutely.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat road less traveled for you.
Thinking about the, the places you'vebeen and the things that you've
experienced, what has shaped you?
I mean there, there obviously isprobably more than one area, one
instance, but , what are some thingsthat helped shaped you as a leader
by, traveling across the world?
Robert Morris (06:54):
Well, initially, I, I, I left Maryland with my
degree and it was, it was a high,high time in a war of Vietnam.
And I had two choices.
Either try to get aninternship or a residency.
I wasn't ready for more studyor go into the military service
because you'd be drafted.
If you didn't, you couldn't get out of it.
(07:17):
Some people did.
Nevermind, and so I picked to go in theUnited States Navy, the United States
Navy serves the United States Marines.
And shortly after I was outta dentalschool, I was in a jungle in Vietnam.
And that was a shock in itself.
But there was a idea, a conceptto embrace the native people,
(07:37):
the local people to convert theirminds and hearts to democracy.
And so.
I took that upon myself to treat thelocal people in small villages in
the central Highlands of Vietnam,which is around the Danang area,
west of Danang the central Highlands.
(07:59):
And it was particularly interesting'cause most of my patients
with young, young children.
So I appreciated it.
It was a pleasure to say forme, but at the same time.
It continued in my wife life and my lastlet's say career activity has brought
(08:23):
me back to Vietnam and those interveningyears, a lot of my work was with children.
That was one of thethings that influenced me.
Charles Schell (08:34):
What within that experience led you to really kind of
commit yourself to international service?
Robert Morris (08:42):
Yeah.
I, again, I, I started out in mymind when I was young that I would
like to travel and maybe get into,let's say the diplomatic call.
That didn't happen, and then I found out.
I could be in the WorldHealth Organization and at
the same time be a diplomat.
We did have diplomatic passports andthat is very difficult to stay with them.
(09:05):
So when my 10 years came up, theysaid that's as long as you can stay.
And I had to rethink how tocontinue what I was doing.
And the way to do that, the wayto continue is I then went to the
Harvard School of Public Healthand got a degree in public health.
So.
When I was at Maryland and when I was inTrinidad, the first project in Trinidad,
(09:27):
it was mostly on an educational basis,training and educational advisors.
When I went to Harvard, I thengot my degree in public health and
I switched to into internationalhealth policy and planning, and.
That would free me up in away from education, which I
was in too long at that point.
(09:48):
And that allowed me to continue myactivities where at the time the Ministry
of Health in Kuwait was searching forsomeone to run a program in Kuwait.
And through my connections I was able toget that job, bring my family to Kuwait.
A very interesting thing aboutthat job is I reflected and
I didn't know about it then.
(10:09):
It was training Palestiniansin the diaspora.
So all my clients in this trainingprogram, which is to bring these
Palestinians up to an internationallevel of skills, because in those days,
they could only go to questionableschools such as in Afghanistan,
Pakistan, et cetera, Bulgaria.
(10:32):
The Kuwaiti would not accept them.
They were residents, but they wouldn'taccept them in to the government
service unless they were upgraded.
So that was the idea.
Upgrade them.
And that went on only for threeyears because the war in Kuwait hit.
And so the project, the building,the people all disappeared.
(10:54):
And in truth, I've neverseen those people ever again.
I was just thinking about that today.
I don't know where they are.
I don't know if they're in Gaza.
I have no idea where theyare, but it's interesting.
That was part of my career.
Charles Schelle (11:08):
Right.
And, and we'll dive deeper intothat experience with Kuwait.
'cause it, it's, it's a veryfascinating time in your life.
But I want to kind ofjump back a little bit.
You often describe a phonecall in the South American
jungle, a as an epiphany moment.
What happened with that phone calland how did it change your direction?
Robert Morris (11:27):
Yeah.
I was thinking about that and I rethinkit as I was getting ready for this.
There were certain things said to me overthe years that, made an impression on me.
Sometimes people askyou, who was your mentor?
I, I kind of say I don't,I don't have a mentor.
I just was doing what I was doing.
There was one person that affectedme and he was a red Face South Boston
(11:49):
Irishman by the name of John Golden.
He was a Jesuit.
Studied at Holy Cross, entered theUS Navy during World War II, was a
chaplain in the Pacific, and then hewent on to be a missionary in Jamaica.
Then he went on to Fairfield toteach philosophy or theology.
But he was my uncle and I thoughthe was the Renaissance man,
(12:10):
you know, with that experience.
And he, I said, someday I'lldo something like him, but.
Again, not too late.
In my experience in Trinidad, wehad a, a, a visit by the director
General of WHO, which was unusualbecause it was a small island.
There were not too manyconsultants, but there were
(12:30):
enough of us and his name was Mah.
And he came out of a missionaryexperience in China where he
grew up, where his parents weremissionaries, health missionaries.
And he arguably was thebest director in WHO.
And he was the driving forcefor health for all 2000.
Of course, we're well past that now,but he came and visited us and he had us
(12:55):
all around the table and he said that,just remember that you're just trying
to make a more socially decent society.
And I thought that wasalways words to live by.
If you're just trying todo that, you might be okay.
But then in Guyana, I gotthis strange call from.
(13:15):
A Jesuit.
The Jesuits have influenced me.
They educated, they influenced my thought.
And it was from Peter Mada Jesuit inPuna, Puna, India had studied at Boston
College theology, friend of my mother's,my mother had died at that point and
he called me out of the blue, which wasextraordinary 'cause I was in the jungle.
(13:36):
I don't even know if how the phone wasworking or how the connection was made.
And we chitchatted madea little social talk.
And finally he said to me, whatare you doing for God today?
And that really irritated me'cause I was in the middle of the
jungle sweating with rats aroundmy feet and I said, I'm working.
So I cogitated over that for a fairamount of time and then I decided that
(13:59):
is what I would do for my experience.
I would just work.
In order to be in service toothers, to be in service to God.
And that's the Jesuit model in Latinarm, major de Gloria, and I would
decide, I decided I would just do thatand give my knowledge and experience.
(14:22):
So much of it learned at theUniversity of Maryland in clinical
dentistry and in education.
I would do that.
Give it and make it available to anyonewho wanted my help, and that's how I
continue my service right up to today.
Charles (14:38):
You've absolutely have been having serving others throughout
your, your career and, and your life.
With everything that we've read and, andheard so far, and we wanna hop back across
the globe where there is the intersectionof, of a lot of religions in the Middle
East and go back to Kuwait and helptell the listeners what happened there?
(15:02):
This was an especially difficultchapter for you, for your wife and
your children, and share about thatexperience, how that affected you and
your family involving the capture andfear that, that you wind up writing about
in your book 120 Days in Deep Hiding.
Robert Morris (15:20):
When I was doing my work, even though.
I tell you, I'm in thejungles of South America.
We didn't consider that riskyat all, but we got to Kuwait.
And Kuwait was invaded by theforces of Saddam Hussein, August
the second, I believe, 1990.
(15:41):
Kuwait isn't just, or wasn't just aBanana Republic, it has a long history.
It exists on the Dutch maps of thetime, 1750, that type of thing.
Where of course Iraq didn't exist.
Iraq was Mesopotamia.
Kuwait was Kuwait.
So the invasion took place.
(16:02):
My family was not there.
My family was on vacation'cause it was in the summer.
So we had two children.
My wife, they were in Boston and theywent to my wife's native Trinidad.
They were in vacationing in Trinidad.
And August the second, an explosiontook place just out of the house.
And that was the beginning of 120 day,130 days of pure hell, A rollercoaster
(16:30):
emotions up and down constantly.
People cheating on you.
People stealing money peoplegetting you in trouble.
By laziness, by thinkingthey were heroic figures.
All of us were not heroic.
So over a couple of days we were inhiding in our apartment right downtown.
(16:51):
The way we knew an invasion took place isa bomb went off right outside my house.
In the cemetery across the streetand we could see the crater and
we were up on about the 13th floorof this apartment building living.
And we could look out the windowsand we could see in the distance
soldiers walking on the ring roads.
(17:12):
But we have initiallythought it was a coup.
Then we realized talking a couple daysbefore that Hussein was gonna invade.
So the invasion took place.
And then my family learned of it,and mostly they said, just don't go
anywhere, just stay where you are.
(17:35):
Well, I went out after about thethird day and I was captured,
and I became a prisoner.
And then you could say,I'm a prisoner of war.
Or you could say I'm a hostage.
A couple of us managed to convinceour captors that we were diplomats.
Now, I had the diplomaticpassport from the UN from
(17:56):
before, but it was out of date.
I had already changed the date.
They told me later.
It was very sloppy work.
I wouldn't make a good detective.
And we convinced them and they let us go.
There was about four of us.
So then we went into hiding again.
And then as I said in my book, I wentinto deep hiding and deep hiding was
(18:18):
taking you off the grid, so to speak.
Not using the phone, not bathing, noteating in the daytime, not turning
the shower on, not flushing thetoilets because it could be heard
all through this empty apartmentbuilding, which is about 900 apartments.
Disconnect in the elevatorsso the soldiers wouldn't
walk up 13 floors to find us.
(18:39):
All this type of thing.
But then bandits roamed throughthe building at night trying
to break in, trying to breakinto my apartment and all that.
But we had put extra locks onthe doors and we put peep holes.
There weren't any peep holesWe put peep poles so we could see out,
but we made the peep holes smallerthan normal so they could not even pick
up our, our eyeball at the peep hole.
(19:04):
And that worked.
That worked for keeping us safe.
Meanwhile my family had to deal withthis back home, and particularly my
older daughter was very traumatized.
She was 11 years old, and of course,she just didn't know what was happening.
And my wife didn't know what would happen.
(19:24):
As we talked before, they justdidn't know if I was coming home.
And there was slight communicationwith the State Department,
but certainly not enough.
And my family was running aroundtrying to get Voice of America
into Kuwait, if you can believe it.
In those days, Voice ofAmerica could not reach Kuwait.
(19:44):
The younger daughter who was onlyfour just said not to worry because
he'll be home for Christmas.
Daddy will be home for Christmas.
And in fact, after all this hidingbecoming a international hostage sending
tapes, we sent tapes out to ABC, NBC,BBC, Canadian News broadcast, the
(20:06):
tapes right after BBC broadcast them.
And at that point, the reporterstracked the tapes to my wife.
Mm-hmm.
Who didn't want them naming anynames because Iraqis would be
watching the tapes at the same time.
But basically we were saying thatif George Bush at that time doesn't
(20:28):
do anything will starve to death.
Now my sister, my older sister, rest inpeace, she had already written me off.
She, she had figuredI'd never come home, so she prayed.
(20:49):
And then we came home on a Catholicanniversary, December the 10th.
We arrived back in Boston.
The reason we arrived was thatSaddam Hussein, as far as I know,
Saddam Hussein let the hostages goand truth, there were 9,000 hostages
(21:12):
of so many nationalities there.
There were about 250 American hostagesthat left the country at the same time I
did on a Pan-American Chartered flight.
Other hostages that were wises ofKuwaiti, they were Americans, but wise
of Kuwaiti, didn't leave the country.
(21:33):
They stayed there.
But the trauma persists.
Anyone will tell you that, post-traumaticstress goes on for a long, long time.
Dana Rampo (21:44):
How, how did you get the message that it was safe to leave?
Robert (21:49):
That's a good question.
In order to make it safe for me, Ihad to change my nationality on paper.
So I tried with the UNpassport that was out of date.
I took my US passport and I hit it upin the air conditioning in the ceiling,
(22:11):
figuring no one would look up there.
I, so I needed a document andfor many years I kept this
secret, but time has passed.
So I would communicate short messagesthrough the US Embassy to my family.
Saying I had to using code words.
(22:32):
I had to change my nationality becausethe Americans the British and maybe the
Canadians were being targeted for captureby Saddam Hussein to be used as hostages.
So we had to have another nationality.
And I sent this message, andthe message was, tell my wife.
(22:58):
I want to be on the green line.
Now, if you're familiar with Boston,the Green Line is a trolley out
to the med school, out to all thehospitals and all that out to Newton.
And I said, I wanna be on thegreen line saying they will
understand I want an Irish passport.
(23:21):
Wow.
My grandfather on mymother's side had come over.
So I was still eligible.
My father's parents, they were Irish, butthat was, I was no longer eligible there.
And I had been trying for years to getthe passport just to have it in my pocket.
And I could never prove that mygrandfather was Irish, but everyone
knew it and I couldn't prove it.
(23:42):
Long history there.
And I said I gotta have a document.
And so.
My brother-in-law understood thecode where the green line, he
says he wants an Irish document.
He wants an Irish passport in his pocket.
So as I said, this has notbeen spread wide and far.
It's not in the books.
So they approached the formerSenator, John Kerry from
(24:05):
Massachusetts and he did it.
He went to the Irish ambassadorin Washington and said, you
gotta give the man a passport.
Dana Rampolla (24:16):
Wow.
Robert Morris (24:17):
So a few weeks later, I think it was in November,
this Irishman arrives at my door.
He had been pre announced, hehad been pre-checked, et cetera.
So he is probably Irish Secret Service.
His name was Seamus, forlack of a better word.
And first thing he asked me,because I have a famous middle name.
(24:43):
Is I, is your name really?
Robert Emmett.
And Robert Emmett is a famous heroand the Irish resistance heroic.
His statue is on MassachusettsAvenue in Washington DC and he
said, well, if your name is RobertEmett, you have to be Irish.
(25:03):
And so he gave me the document.
Now, it wasn't actually apassport, it's a laissez-passer.
French, they say the right to pass.
But that made me more secure.
So at that same point that we'rereceiving this, the Irish government
now had taken over with people like meand said, you have to come to Baghdad.
(25:27):
So we said, well, howdo we get to Baghdad?
We don't even have any money.
And they said, well, we, we'll getyou the money, but you have to get on
an airplane out this at at this AirForce base where they're running the
commercial airplanes to Baghdad, whichis probably an hour away by plane.
So two of us went out there, the otherfellow with me, he was kind of a sad sack.
(25:48):
He had been drunk almost forthree months, but nevermind.
He, we go out together we act normaland we're about to get on the plane
and the secret police called me over.
I didn't know what was gonna happenand my friend had already
(26:09):
gotten on the plane.
I was off the plane, I had beenpulled aside and he said, I
wanna check your documents again.
Something like that.
He said, okay, go ahead.
So we're now on the plane andwe get to Baghdad and
a week or two passes.
(26:35):
We come up to early December orwhatever and just out of the blue,
we didn't know what we were gonna do.
We knew the invasion was gonnatake place by the US and we
didn't wanna be in Baghdad.
We wanted to be back in Kuwaitthinking it would be safer.
And just out of the blue.
It came over maybe on BBC, thatSaddam Hussein said, everyone is free.
(26:58):
And when he said that there were about9,000 hostages in the country from all
kinds of nationalities, a lot of them,if you will, maids and servants and
road workers that went there to make aliving, to send their money back home to
the Philippines or to India, et cetera.
So, that was it.
A lot of.
(27:19):
Things went on between the time thatwas announced and we got on the plane.
When we got on the plane, it was an IraqiAirways plane to Frankfurt, Germany, and
it came within about three seconds ofcrashing at the airport as we landed.
And it's a long story.
(27:39):
It's in the bookthe pilot from British Airways who landed
in Kuwait in the middle of the war.
A lawsuit has just been settledon that a couple months ago, He,
he was sitting in front of me onthe plane, so he was a 7 47 pilot.
The plane was a 7 47 and he said thatwas the time between, it was obvious we
(28:03):
were crashing to going back up becausehe came across the runway sideways.
It took about seven secondswith this horrendous roar of the
jets trying to get the plane up.
And the pilot said to me, that wasthe longest seven seconds in his life.
And he was, he was a 7 47 pilot.
So we landed and then we waited oneday and we took Pan-American Airlines.
(28:28):
It was the last time I ever took Pan Am toWashington, DC to Andrews Air Force Base.
And, and that, that is kind of the story.
Dana Rampoll (28:41):
That's incredible.
Sounds like this could be a whole movie.
Robert Morris (28:44):
Mm-hmm.
Dana Rampolla (28:44):
Well, that, that,
Robert Morris (28:45):
sorry, sorry.
It, it was offered to a movie.
I already picked who Iwanted to work Be Me.
Oh, nice.
And you know, in the UnitedStates, we go so fast, my lawyer
wanted 50,000 to start the talks.
They said we give 5,000.
And by that time.
General Schwartzkoff, ifyou remember Schwartzkoff.
Charles Schelle (29:06):
Mm-hmm.
Robert Morris (29:06):
Mm-hmm.
Started the invasion of Iraq, so no onewas interested in a movie any longer.
Charles Schelle (29:12):
So you get to Andrew's Air Force base.
What did it feel like touchingdown on American soil at that time?
Robert Morris (29:20):
That was another interesting experience.
My sister worked for Pan Am She got sometickets from my wife and two children
to come down to meet me at Andrew's.
And they knew when the flight wascoming in and you know, in typical
bureaucratic fashion, they tried tomassage the arrival of us into some
kind of everyone wave their flags andbe happy, you know, we're all back.
(29:46):
I am not sure if those bureaucratsin the State Department understood
what we had been through, and wejust wanted to get outta there.
And so the relatives were all inthe gym and they said, all right.
First they kept us away fromthem, and then I said, that's it.
I'm out.
I'm going out.
I'm in America.
I'm going out.
(30:07):
And so I just.
Left this bureaucrat who was standingup there telling us, wait, wait, wait.
I just left them and ran in and looked formy children and my wife and my dear wife.
And there they were.
And we just embraced for about 45 seconds,I picked up my little daughter who was
(30:29):
four, and I'll always remember this.
She had a tiny American flag in her hand.
She was waving it under a basketballhoop, and I thought that was so
American, so symbolic, and then all thereporters gathered around and all that.
And then there were interviewsfor weeks on end with the news.
Dana Rampolla (30:53):
Hmm.
That's just an incredible story.
Thank you for sharing it.
And I feel like I can feel emotionaljust hearing you talk, especially
about your children and your wifeand being reunited with them.
I think this reinforces what you saidyour mantra was or that you had learned.
We all have to do hard things andthese were certainly hard times.
(31:14):
You know, many of us have nevereven heard about or known, so I hope
our younger alumni appreciate yousharing such details about that story.
Robert, let's pivot for a minuteand talk a little bit about some of
the great things that you have done.
One in particular being the Mai Tam Housein Vietnam that you and your wife founded.
Can you share a little bit aboutwhat drove you to do that and
(31:36):
how you've worked together andjust what the goal of that was?
Robert Morris (31:41):
Yes, of course we're discussing my career
and uh, uh, the trajectory.
Trajectory and the fact that I wasinvolved in international health, if you
will, international policy and education.
And my work was populationbased, so to speak.
It was never just seeing a patient,an ex patient, next patient.
I didn't wanna do that.
I didn't want to do clinical dentistry.
(32:01):
I want to affect societyto changing the population.
The best I can and whateverthe size the population is.
So, I had finished up the work in Kuwait.
We had done it very, very successfullya very, very successful program
where all the Kuwaiti childrenfrom, let's say five to 12, were
(32:23):
in a disease prevention program.
That program developed into somethingequivalent to the Scandinavian Country's
approach which put it on par with thenorthern countries of Europe, which
were the gold standard in those days,and the best in what's called Southwest
Asia, Kuwait and Southwest Asia.
(32:46):
So the program finished up.
It was time to go home.
It was time to retire.
My daughter was still young, theyounger one, and my dear wife
Jill, who made this journey withme she said, we gotta educate her.
We gotta get her into high school andall that, and we gotta move her on.
And I don't think it's time tobe traipsing around the world.
(33:06):
So I just accepted.
I said, well, I'm at retirementage, let's do something else and
we'll take care of our daughter.
So.
Somewhere at that point, about two yearslater again, I always had an affinity
for Vietnam and the people I met there,I never considered them my enemy.
I liked them.
They caused me problems, ofcourse, and it's in my book.
(33:29):
But I liked them.
They didn't hate me.
I didn't hate them.
So I thought I could get back there andbring some of my public health expertise
through a project I would develop ratherthan some other people would develop.
And at that point I had been communicatingwith, again, with Jesuit, Boston College.
He was at Georgetown to GI Gii.
(33:50):
He's now in Myanmar as aneducational missionary.
And I knew he had been going toVietnam and I knew Vietnamese for
visiting him at Boston College.
I, I said, you know, I'm interesteddown the line of trying to find
the health project that I coulddo simply and be involved in.
And he just said, gimme the resume and.
(34:10):
I did, and a while came, a while, wentby and he he called me at one point
and said, let's go out to dinner.
He said, would you be willingto sponsor an orphanage?
And Jill and I were together and I feltstrangely, the sunset of our careers.
(34:33):
It was a most fantastic offer.
Whatever it meant to be ableto help sponsor people who
don't have any place to go.
So the, it turned out it was an orphanagefor HIV age children, and it was founded
by a father John Schwa, who belongs to theorder of St. Kalis, which is missionaries
(35:00):
of the Affirm infirm from Italy.
And they are religious people, butthey're all health professionals, the
the full range of health professions.
And their main focus was in Italywith old age homes and bringing the
agent through their end of life.
But with the Italian health system,the public health system, the
(35:24):
government took that over and thenthey would maybe stay there, but
the government paid for everything.
So they really didn'thave that much to do.
So over Vietnam, this young priest joinedthe order and then he became the leader.
And I'd say, I'd say the first thinghe did was to establish this orphanage.
(35:44):
So what, after going over and meetinghim, we agreed that we would provide,
in the language of internationaldevelopment, we would provide.
The seed money or the startupmoney for the orphanage.
And then we would provide whatever publichealth experience we could provide,
educational experience, et cetera.
(36:07):
And so we did that.
And for him, for the priest, he,he equates that, that Jill and I
were the founders of the orphanage.
And Jill and I say we're not the founders.
He is, and it's 20 years this year.
I was hoping he's coming next month.
He's not.
It's 20 years.
It's been a fantastic experience.
(36:28):
It is in my own mind.
And others the best orphanage in Vietnamit's a full social service program.
It also includes mothers with HIV.
The infants are HIV positive,AIDS positive or liver.
Affected by AIDS being that thebrother or sister have aids and
(36:51):
then the mothers who live have aids.
And we have reached a thousandclients over the years.
And just for this talk, I was doing alittle data analysis and, and over 20
years, this is this year, 20 years,we've had a 1.7% mortality rate.
(37:11):
Where the expected mortality ratein a group of children like that,
children with age, but being treatedwould be up about five to 7%.
And if the children weren'ttreated, the mortality rate is 35%.
Charles Schelle (37:27):
Hmm.
Rober (37:27):
So the orphanage and Jill and I take No, no praise at all for it.
The orphanage is highly successfuland in my mind, the best in Vietnam.
So.
It was just wonderful.
It came outta the blue and it madethe sunset of our career, if you will,
more rewarding than anything else.
Dana Rampolla (37:49):
Do you feel like all of that work in some ways
helped to de-stigmatize AIDSand HIV in those communities?
Robert Morris (37:57):
That's what we've discussed in the last, several months.
The last couple of years that Iasked Father John twice, I asked
him, why do we have less clients?
He said, well, they're going back homeand a lot of 'em are getting older and
they're graduating and going to college.
Some are going back home.
He said, because we've talked to thepeople in Saigon, Ho Chi Minh City,
(38:21):
it's called, and now they understandthat the child is on one tablet a day.
Can go to school, doesn'thave to tell anyone.
Teachers can keep their mouthshut, so to speak, and that's it.
No one has to know anything.
Or they can come home, themother and father have died.
(38:42):
They can come home and bewith the extended family.
And yes, and again, that's the way.
Father Twy works.
He's, he's we many people.
And you, it is in theinternational literature.
It's online.
They call him a living saint.
So he is, without a doubt, the mostremarkable person I've ever met.
(39:04):
So again, we were very lucky.
We just fell upon it, so tospeak, and we were able to give
a little money to start it up.
Charles Schelle (39:16):
You, you do a lot of great things with that.
House in Vietnam and I, I saw, youset up ways for, for the mothers
to, to earn income too, right?
Like dressmaking, right?
Robert Morris (39:28):
Yes.
There was a talk as we went along wherethere were more mothers and how, how
could the orphanage or thecenter, you know, allow them
to be more prosperous in life?
'cause they've probably lost theirhusband, they have no money and
they're sick, but they're on medicine.
And so different ideas came up andsome things work, some things fail.
(39:51):
I noted and the priest.
Father had a flower farm not too far away.
I said, why don't we do some of those highexpensive flower arrangements, have them
do flower arrangements, take 'em around tothe embassies, the hotels, and all that.
And that worked for a while, but theythe orphanage found out that the driver.
(40:18):
Taking the flowers aroundwith stealing the money.
So that's fair.
It's, it happens.
It always happens.
And then they got into some dressmaking, which my wife is very
familiar with, and they got somehigh end sewing machines from Japan.
If you're into that business, thoseare high end and they were able to
(40:41):
start making these wedding dresses.
Which are very important inVietnam during New Year's.
New Year's is called te the Tet Holidays.
So certain Tet holidays, everyone'sgetting married, who's gonna get
married, so it's a good chance tocharge a lot of money, so to speak.
And do a beautiful dress.
(41:02):
And they, the, the ladies,my wife who knows it, said
they know what they're doing.
So that was wonderful.
Yes.
That was one of the ways of making money.
Yeah.
Charles Schelle (41:10):
Yeah.
That, that's fantastic.
We've, we've only dived into a, asliver of, of your career between all
the tri triumphs and challenges anddangers that, that we've heard about.
As you think about, talking to the,the next generations of healthcare
and public service leaders,especially maybe those in dentistry
(41:31):
who've seen what, what you've done.
That your, your career as adentist doesn't have to be confined
to a chair and, and an office.
It can be anywhere andyou can do anything.
So, like, what message do you want toleave with, with these young professionals
and, and these students in dental school?
Robert Mor (41:48):
Well, you know, I, I talked to the dean, Mark Reynolds,
I, I talked to him about this whenI received this honorary doctorate.
And I kind of said, well, why me?
And you know, he said, well, becauseyou've shown that the field of dentistry
is extraordinarily broad, if you will.
It doesn't mean you have to sit in aprivate office work with two other people.
(42:12):
You can look into many areas.
And I think the dentists are doing that.
I think they're not so much looking atwhat they can do abroad, but I would
say that's not necessarily their fault.
What I did, very few other people did.
There were two or three of usout there for their whole career,
(42:35):
so to speak that I ever met.
And mostly they were, uh.
with the group I'm working,and it might've been one or two
other people, but I continued it.
And so it's not an easy thing to advisepeople to do, but I think when I look
at what the University of Marylandis doing is trying to extend itself
internationally, I I, I praise that.
(42:57):
And I, I asked Mark Reynolds, Isaid, I, I agree what you're doing
and who's, who's, who's pushing it.
And he said he is.
And so, yeah.
So maybe the students.
Between what they see me doing andwhat the school and the university
is pushing an international approachthey'll look at that and realize there's
(43:17):
a lot more than just staying, let'ssay in Maryland or staying in Texas.
All that.
You know, we talked a little bit, Idon't wanna slip by, but how the school
helped me on my first job, which was togo to Trinidad to develop this dental
nursing school, this dental nursingconcept, it was well known in, in British
(43:38):
colonies and it was in New Zealand.
It was founded in New Zealand,may, New Zealand, maybe 1916.
So we applied that program in Trinidadand last year we had our 48th anniversary.
So that program provided a new healthcareprofessionals that could treat children
(43:59):
after two years of training in 13countries of the Caribbean and Central
America, and last year we had the 48threunion of the group of the groups.
And I would say with due respectthat the UN doesn't have any other
project that's lasted 48 years.
So that was a success.
(44:22):
Now it's winding down becausepeople change opinions.
New professionals come in, newministers come into the health ministry.
Why are we spending money there?
And you have to havevery strong advocates.
So in most of the countries, it's slowingdown, but it's still going in Trinidad.
Charles Sch (44:38):
Yeah, you're right.
UMB still to this day does a lot withinternational education and providing
students with opportunities abroad.
So I actually wanna give a quick plug.
The School of Social Work recentlylaunched a podcast called Social Work is
Everywhere, and you'll hear stories aboutall the different international
research and education going on there.
(45:00):
So, get out and see the worldand, and, you know, do your thing.
Essentially, UMB will willprovide a way for that.
Robert Morris (45:07):
Yeah, I, I did, I read about that and I was impressed.
I, I'm, I'm very impressed with theUniversity of Maryland, Baltimore,
when I read, when I do read itthe outreach that's going on.
Yeah.
Either locally or at a long distance.
Yeah.
Dana Rampolla (45:22):
Well, and also quite impressive.
You've done all of these things inyour life and, and you also continue
to learn you're a lifelong learner.
And I believe you told me youjust recently got a postgraduate
diploma in was it Irish studies?
Robert Morris (45:36):
Yes.
Yeah, that's right.
So
Dana Rampolla (45:39):
you still find time to do these things.
Robert Mo (45:42):
I should have done it during COVID, but it wasn't there.
So what happened was that.
My relatives are from Ireland,my ancestors, I should say.
And they came over, some of them justbefore the Irish famine, and some
came over after the Irish family.
But the ones that came overand Irish Island has a long
history and a long reputation.
(46:05):
They came over, and I say this withrespect there were ref refugees in the
country, if you will immigrants, andthey all became doctors or pharmacists.
After leaving Island, we justcouldn't figure that out.
How did they get into Harvardin 1850 as Irish Catholics?
How did they ever do that?
And I wanted to find out moreabout Island and more about my
(46:28):
history because difficult to findall other documents are lost.
And so I was lookingat it for a course and.
I couldn't get it in Boston.
And they were all too expensive.
They were at the full rate, and youhad to take a master's or a PhD.
I said, I don't wanna pay fullrates anymore to have fun.
(46:49):
And this course came up at theUniversity of Galway, which was then
the National University of Galway.
Now it's the University of Galway.
And the fees were very reasonableand it would be all online,
a little bit of a challenge.
It would be two years, it'dbe equivalent to a master.
It would be in Irish studies and it wouldbe a survey course, and it was fantastic.
(47:11):
In retrospect, it was wonderful.
I enjoyed it so much.
Again, what you said ispart of lifelong learning.
You have to be prepared to do it because.
I was writing papers everyweek for two, two years.
And my wife and I was playingIrish music too at the same time.
My wife was very upset,although it's awfully beautiful.
(47:32):
And so I got the degree andunfortunately, tragedy hit the family.
My sister died when I was to get thediploma, so I couldn't go get it.
I wanted to go get it 'cause I could goget a Guinness at the same time, you know?
Right,
Dana Rampolla (47:47):
right.
Robert Morris (47:48):
And, always famous for drinking.
I couldn't get it, so Itold 'em I can't come.
And I said, I just want to know one thing.
Am I the oldest one in the class?
They said, indeed, you arethe oldest one in the class.
So they said they want you to writean article about why you did this,
and I think I told you the title waschasing Knowledge at the age of 81.
(48:10):
AndI'm waiting for them to publish that.
Dana Rampolla (48:13):
That's wonderful.
You are so inspirational and I reallyjust appreciate hearing all of your,
your stories and your wealth of knowledgeand I look forward to getting your book.
I did wanna, before we sign off, Robert,thank you again for being with us today
and sharing your wisdom with the world.
Tell us how can we get a copy?
You have two books out there and howcan we get a copy if we're interested?
Robert Morris (48:36):
First, thank you so much for inviting me.
I, I hope that somehow the studentsthe new students there get a chance to
think about some of these activities andthat what I did can be an inspiration
of sorts to them, to the students.
I was hoping that at the gra atthe graduation, that would've more
(48:56):
conversations, the books you either.
Write to Amazon or to through Amazon forthe book called The Life of My Choice.
And that is about whatwe're talking about.
I made these choices in lifeand in the end I'm satisfied.
So it's a biography from the beginning.
(49:18):
And the second book is about theinvasion of Kuwait being a hostage,
and you and I talked about this,what does the word hostage mean?
And people would say, well.
No one had a gun on you all the time.
They only had a gun on youfor four days or three days.
No one had a gun on you.
But a hostage in international termsis someone who is not allowed to
leave the place they're stuck in.
(49:40):
So all these people in Kuwaitwere international hostages.
According to international law.
So that book, 120 Days in Deep HidingHow to Outwit with the Outwitting, the
Iraqi army that is published by Xlibris.
That's X-libris.
(50:01):
No e-x.
Xlibris.com.
So you order directly from them.
You just go online.
You Google these and you should find them.
I hope you do buy them.
They're good.
They should have been amovie once, but they're not.
Well certainly
Dana (50:14):
would've been a good one.
Charles Schelle (50:15):
Great.
Fantastic.
I'm glad you could share yourstory with us and thank you for
joining us on the UMB Pulse.
Robert Morri (50:21):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Jena (50:29):
The UMB Pulse with Charles Schelle and Dana Rampolla is a UMB
Office of Communications and PublicAffairs production edited by Charles
Schelle, marketing by Dana Rampolla
Charles, you know, one of the best things of hosting this podcast
is getting to sit down with peoplewhose lives kind of read like a novel.
Charles Sche (00:07):
That's right, Dana and today's guest is exactly that.
His story spans continents,decades, and some of the most
dramatic moments in modern history.
Dana Rampolla (00:17):
Sure does.
We're talking about Dr. Robert E. Morris.
He's a 1969 graduate of the Universityof Maryland School of Dentistry, and
one of this year's recipients of UMB'shonorary doctor of public service degree.
Now, you might hear us a couple oftimes, refer to ourselves as Maryland
or University of Maryland during thisprogram, and I just wanna remind you.
(00:38):
This is coming to you from University ofMaryland, Baltimore, also known as UMB,
Charles Schelle (00:43):
His career has taken him from treating villagers
in Vietnam to building public healthsystems in Kuwait to training the
next generation of oral healthleaders in the Caribbean and beyond.
Dana Rampoll (00:54):
And along the way, he's faced life changing challenges,
including surviving four monthsin hiding during the invasion of
Kuwait, which he later wrote aboutin his book, 120 Days in Deep Hiding.
Charles Schelle (01:07):
He's also a, a philanthropist who with
his wife, co-founded the MaiTam House of Hope in Vietnam.
They serve mothers and childrenaffected by, HIV and aids.
Dana Rampol (01:18):
And through it all, he's lived by the Jesuit values.
They were instilled in him at HolyCross up in Boston, and he carried
this with him throughout his life,during his time at UMB and and beyond.
And he reminds us that weall have to do hard things.
Charles Schelle (01:34):
I think our listeners are going to find
Robert's story inspiring and, andhumbling a great person to talk to.
So let's dive in and hearfrom this month's changemaker.
Jena Frick (01:51):
You are listening to the heartbeat of the University of
Maryland, Baltimore, the UMB Pulse.
Dana Rampo (02:05):
Dr. Morris, welcome.
It's such a privilege tohave you with us today.
Robert Morri (02:09):
Thank you all too.
Thank you for inviting me andgiving me the opportunity to,
discuss the many aspects of mycareer since I left the University
of Maryland school of Dentistry.
Yes.
Thank you very much.
Dana Rampolla (02:21):
Well, let's start at the beginning, shall we?
Where did you, youmentioned the dental school.
Where did you go to college?
And how did those early experiencesshape your philosophy of service?
Robert Morris (02:33):
I went to college of the Holy Cross.
That's in Worcester, Massachusetts.
It's a Jesuit school, Catholic, of course.
And they have a particularphilosophy which we can discuss.
It's to be in service to others,shall we say, loosely translated
in order to be in service to God.
So they didn't talk about that much wayback when I graduated, it became much
(02:55):
more prevalent in the 2000 let's say.
With the new worldwide director, hethought the Jesuit should think that way.
And so it's pushed very hard nowadays, butI absorbed it and I use it now in my life.
Dana Rampolla (03:13):
And what a great motto to live by.
You mentioned Holy Cross following.
Holy Cross.
What was your degree there?
And then how did you wind up atUniversity of Maryland, Baltimore?
Robert (03:24):
Well, my degree was in.
Classics pre-med, so that'sLatin and Greek and pre-meds.
I avoided math 'causethey told me I was stupid.
Jesus.
But I was originallyin, in a German track.
I kinda, which leads into mycareer, I kind of looked at
travel and diplomacy early on.
It was a period of JFK, it wasahead of time in our lives.
(03:45):
JFK was from Boston.
Of course, I'm from Boston.
And I thought that's away I could be of service.
It would be language and diplomacy abroad.
I always thought about that,but it didn't work out that way.
I changed into what they call classicspre-med, and that led me to the University
of Maryland Dental School for differentreasons, but I knew it was a good school.
(04:07):
I also knew that it wouldn'tbankrupt my parents.
We had a big family.
Dental school in the privateschools like Tufts and Harvard
were prohibitive as they are now.
So in the end, I was very gladand happy to go to the University
of Maryland School of Dentistry.
Dana Rampolla (04:26):
And you got your DDS in 1969?
Robert Morris (04:29):
Correct.
Dana Rampolla (04:30):
How did your time at the School of Dentistry
influenced your career?
Robert Mo (04:34):
It's a good question.
And it can be answeredI think in two ways.
My understanding of the school wasthat it was a good school to go to
for clinical experience, clinicalpractice, and that held up true.
I I was good enough in clinical dentistry.
And that was all learned at Maryland.
But later on I joined the facultyand I was exposed to, professor Ernie
(05:00):
Moreland, PhD in education who wastrying to move the dental school away
from a sort of CD of Pat's lecturingsystem to a more scientifically based
pedagogical approach to teaching.
So I embraced that maybe morethan anyone else I know in
the school, and that led into.
(05:23):
A consulting position with theWorld Health Organization in the
Caribbean initially for two yearsand then it extended on for 10 years.
Charles Schell (05:33):
Dr. Morris, your career took you to, to Vietnam.
Kuwait, Trinidad andTobago and, and beyond.
And, and.
I do wanna ask you about, thoseexperiences about, you know, what
most shaped you as a leader in globalhealth and dentistry, but you also
told us beforehand you have somethingthat you wanna share with us and read
that helps , set the stage for that.
Robert Morris (05:53):
Yes.
It, it will help set the stage.
So, thinking of my career I like to quoteNew England's favorite poet, Robert Frost.
He wrote the poem, the RoadNot Taken, beautiful poem.
And here's a little short excerpt.
I should be telling this with asigh somewhere, ages and ages.
(06:14):
Hence two roads diverged in the woodsand I, I took the one less travel by
and that has made all the difference.
So I think that leadsinto my career trajectory.
Charles Schelle (06:30):
Absolutely.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat road less traveled for you.
Thinking about the, the places you'vebeen and the things that you've
experienced, what has shaped you?
I mean there, there obviously isprobably more than one area, one
instance, but , what are some thingsthat helped shaped you as a leader
by, traveling across the world?
Robert Morris (06:54):
Well, initially, I, I, I left Maryland with my
degree and it was, it was a high,high time in a war of Vietnam.
And I had two choices.
Either try to get aninternship or a residency.
I wasn't ready for more studyor go into the military service
because you'd be drafted.
If you didn't, you couldn't get out of it.
(07:17):
Some people did.
Nevermind, and so I picked to go in theUnited States Navy, the United States
Navy serves the United States Marines.
And shortly after I was outta dentalschool, I was in a jungle in Vietnam.
And that was a shock in itself.
But there was a idea, a conceptto embrace the native people,
(07:37):
the local people to convert theirminds and hearts to democracy.
And so.
I took that upon myself to treat thelocal people in small villages in
the central Highlands of Vietnam,which is around the Danang area,
west of Danang the central Highlands.
(07:59):
And it was particularly interesting'cause most of my patients
with young, young children.
So I appreciated it.
It was a pleasure to say forme, but at the same time.
It continued in my wife life and my lastlet's say career activity has brought
(08:23):
me back to Vietnam and those interveningyears, a lot of my work was with children.
That was one of thethings that influenced me.
Charles Schell (08:34):
What within that experience led you to really kind of
commit yourself to international service?
Robert Morris (08:42):
Yeah.
I, again, I, I started out in mymind when I was young that I would
like to travel and maybe get into,let's say the diplomatic call.
That didn't happen, and then I found out.
I could be in the WorldHealth Organization and at
the same time be a diplomat.
We did have diplomatic passports andthat is very difficult to stay with them.
(09:05):
So when my 10 years came up, theysaid that's as long as you can stay.
And I had to rethink how tocontinue what I was doing.
And the way to do that, the wayto continue is I then went to the
Harvard School of Public Healthand got a degree in public health.
So.
When I was at Maryland and when I was inTrinidad, the first project in Trinidad,
(09:27):
it was mostly on an educational basis,training and educational advisors.
When I went to Harvard, I thengot my degree in public health and
I switched to into internationalhealth policy and planning, and.
That would free me up in away from education, which I
was in too long at that point.
(09:48):
And that allowed me to continue myactivities where at the time the Ministry
of Health in Kuwait was searching forsomeone to run a program in Kuwait.
And through my connections I was able toget that job, bring my family to Kuwait.
A very interesting thing aboutthat job is I reflected and
I didn't know about it then.
(10:09):
It was training Palestiniansin the diaspora.
So all my clients in this trainingprogram, which is to bring these
Palestinians up to an internationallevel of skills, because in those days,
they could only go to questionableschools such as in Afghanistan,
Pakistan, et cetera, Bulgaria.
(10:32):
The Kuwaiti would not accept them.
They were residents, but they wouldn'taccept them in to the government
service unless they were upgraded.
So that was the idea.
Upgrade them.
And that went on only for threeyears because the war in Kuwait hit.
And so the project, the building,the people all disappeared.
(10:54):
And in truth, I've neverseen those people ever again.
I was just thinking about that today.
I don't know where they are.
I don't know if they're in Gaza.
I have no idea where theyare, but it's interesting.
That was part of my career.
Charles Schelle (11:08):
Right.
And, and we'll dive deeper intothat experience with Kuwait.
'cause it, it's, it's a veryfascinating time in your life.
But I want to kind ofjump back a little bit.
You often describe a phonecall in the South American
jungle, a as an epiphany moment.
What happened with that phone calland how did it change your direction?
Robert Morris (11:27):
Yeah.
I was thinking about that and I rethinkit as I was getting ready for this.
There were certain things said to me overthe years that, made an impression on me.
Sometimes people askyou, who was your mentor?
I, I kind of say I don't,I don't have a mentor.
I just was doing what I was doing.
There was one person that affectedme and he was a red Face South Boston
(11:49):
Irishman by the name of John Golden.
He was a Jesuit.
Studied at Holy Cross, entered theUS Navy during World War II, was a
chaplain in the Pacific, and then hewent on to be a missionary in Jamaica.
Then he went on to Fairfield toteach philosophy or theology.
But he was my uncle and I thoughthe was the Renaissance man,
(12:10):
you know, with that experience.
And he, I said, someday I'lldo something like him, but.
Again, not too late.
In my experience in Trinidad, wehad a, a, a visit by the director
General of WHO, which was unusualbecause it was a small island.
There were not too manyconsultants, but there were
(12:30):
enough of us and his name was Mah.
And he came out of a missionaryexperience in China where he
grew up, where his parents weremissionaries, health missionaries.
And he arguably was thebest director in WHO.
And he was the driving forcefor health for all 2000.
Of course, we're well past that now,but he came and visited us and he had us
(12:55):
all around the table and he said that,just remember that you're just trying
to make a more socially decent society.
And I thought that wasalways words to live by.
If you're just trying todo that, you might be okay.
But then in Guyana, I gotthis strange call from.
(13:15):
A Jesuit.
The Jesuits have influenced me.
They educated, they influenced my thought.
And it was from Peter Mada Jesuit inPuna, Puna, India had studied at Boston
College theology, friend of my mother's,my mother had died at that point and
he called me out of the blue, which wasextraordinary 'cause I was in the jungle.
(13:36):
I don't even know if how the phone wasworking or how the connection was made.
And we chitchatted madea little social talk.
And finally he said to me, whatare you doing for God today?
And that really irritated me'cause I was in the middle of the
jungle sweating with rats aroundmy feet and I said, I'm working.
So I cogitated over that for a fairamount of time and then I decided that
(13:59):
is what I would do for my experience.
I would just work.
In order to be in service toothers, to be in service to God.
And that's the Jesuit model in Latinarm, major de Gloria, and I would
decide, I decided I would just do thatand give my knowledge and experience.
(14:22):
So much of it learned at theUniversity of Maryland in clinical
dentistry and in education.
I would do that.
Give it and make it available to anyonewho wanted my help, and that's how I
continue my service right up to today.
Charles (14:38):
You've absolutely have been having serving others throughout
your, your career and, and your life.
With everything that we've read and, andheard so far, and we wanna hop back across
the globe where there is the intersectionof, of a lot of religions in the Middle
East and go back to Kuwait and helptell the listeners what happened there?
(15:02):
This was an especially difficultchapter for you, for your wife and
your children, and share about thatexperience, how that affected you and
your family involving the capture andfear that, that you wind up writing about
in your book 120 Days in Deep Hiding.
Robert Morris (15:20):
When I was doing my work, even though.
I tell you, I'm in thejungles of South America.
We didn't consider that riskyat all, but we got to Kuwait.
And Kuwait was invaded by theforces of Saddam Hussein, August
the second, I believe, 1990.
(15:41):
Kuwait isn't just, or wasn't just aBanana Republic, it has a long history.
It exists on the Dutch maps of thetime, 1750, that type of thing.
Where of course Iraq didn't exist.
Iraq was Mesopotamia.
Kuwait was Kuwait.
So the invasion took place.
(16:02):
My family was not there.
My family was on vacation'cause it was in the summer.
So we had two children.
My wife, they were in Boston and theywent to my wife's native Trinidad.
They were in vacationing in Trinidad.
And August the second, an explosiontook place just out of the house.
And that was the beginning of 120 day,130 days of pure hell, A rollercoaster
(16:30):
emotions up and down constantly.
People cheating on you.
People stealing money peoplegetting you in trouble.
By laziness, by thinkingthey were heroic figures.
All of us were not heroic.
So over a couple of days we were inhiding in our apartment right downtown.
(16:51):
The way we knew an invasion took place isa bomb went off right outside my house.
In the cemetery across the streetand we could see the crater and
we were up on about the 13th floorof this apartment building living.
And we could look out the windowsand we could see in the distance
soldiers walking on the ring roads.
(17:12):
But we have initiallythought it was a coup.
Then we realized talking a couple daysbefore that Hussein was gonna invade.
So the invasion took place.
And then my family learned of it,and mostly they said, just don't go
anywhere, just stay where you are.
(17:35):
Well, I went out after about thethird day and I was captured,
and I became a prisoner.
And then you could say,I'm a prisoner of war.
Or you could say I'm a hostage.
A couple of us managed to convinceour captors that we were diplomats.
Now, I had the diplomaticpassport from the UN from
(17:56):
before, but it was out of date.
I had already changed the date.
They told me later.
It was very sloppy work.
I wouldn't make a good detective.
And we convinced them and they let us go.
There was about four of us.
So then we went into hiding again.
And then as I said in my book, I wentinto deep hiding and deep hiding was
(18:18):
taking you off the grid, so to speak.
Not using the phone, not bathing, noteating in the daytime, not turning
the shower on, not flushing thetoilets because it could be heard
all through this empty apartmentbuilding, which is about 900 apartments.
Disconnect in the elevatorsso the soldiers wouldn't
walk up 13 floors to find us.
(18:39):
All this type of thing.
But then bandits roamed throughthe building at night trying
to break in, trying to breakinto my apartment and all that.
But we had put extra locks onthe doors and we put peep holes.
There weren't any peep holesWe put peep poles so we could see out,
but we made the peep holes smallerthan normal so they could not even pick
up our, our eyeball at the peep hole.
(19:04):
And that worked.
That worked for keeping us safe.
Meanwhile my family had to deal withthis back home, and particularly my
older daughter was very traumatized.
She was 11 years old, and of course,she just didn't know what was happening.
And my wife didn't know what would happen.
(19:24):
As we talked before, they justdidn't know if I was coming home.
And there was slight communicationwith the State Department,
but certainly not enough.
And my family was running aroundtrying to get Voice of America
into Kuwait, if you can believe it.
In those days, Voice ofAmerica could not reach Kuwait.
(19:44):
The younger daughter who was onlyfour just said not to worry because
he'll be home for Christmas.
Daddy will be home for Christmas.
And in fact, after all this hidingbecoming a international hostage sending
tapes, we sent tapes out to ABC, NBC,BBC, Canadian News broadcast, the
(20:06):
tapes right after BBC broadcast them.
And at that point, the reporterstracked the tapes to my wife.
Mm-hmm.
Who didn't want them naming anynames because Iraqis would be
watching the tapes at the same time.
But basically we were saying thatif George Bush at that time doesn't
(20:28):
do anything will starve to death.
Now my sister, my older sister, rest inpeace, she had already written me off.
She, she had figuredI'd never come home, so she prayed.
(20:49):
And then we came home on a Catholicanniversary, December the 10th.
We arrived back in Boston.
The reason we arrived was thatSaddam Hussein, as far as I know,
Saddam Hussein let the hostages goand truth, there were 9,000 hostages
(21:12):
of so many nationalities there.
There were about 250 American hostagesthat left the country at the same time I
did on a Pan-American Chartered flight.
Other hostages that were wises ofKuwaiti, they were Americans, but wise
of Kuwaiti, didn't leave the country.
(21:33):
They stayed there.
But the trauma persists.
Anyone will tell you that, post-traumaticstress goes on for a long, long time.
Dana Rampo (21:44):
How, how did you get the message that it was safe to leave?
Robert (21:49):
That's a good question.
In order to make it safe for me, Ihad to change my nationality on paper.
So I tried with the UNpassport that was out of date.
I took my US passport and I hit it upin the air conditioning in the ceiling,
(22:11):
figuring no one would look up there.
I, so I needed a document andfor many years I kept this
secret, but time has passed.
So I would communicate short messagesthrough the US Embassy to my family.
Saying I had to using code words.
(22:32):
I had to change my nationality becausethe Americans the British and maybe the
Canadians were being targeted for captureby Saddam Hussein to be used as hostages.
So we had to have another nationality.
And I sent this message, andthe message was, tell my wife.
(22:58):
I want to be on the green line.
Now, if you're familiar with Boston,the Green Line is a trolley out
to the med school, out to all thehospitals and all that out to Newton.
And I said, I wanna be on thegreen line saying they will
understand I want an Irish passport.
(23:21):
Wow.
My grandfather on mymother's side had come over.
So I was still eligible.
My father's parents, they were Irish, butthat was, I was no longer eligible there.
And I had been trying for years to getthe passport just to have it in my pocket.
And I could never prove that mygrandfather was Irish, but everyone
knew it and I couldn't prove it.
(23:42):
Long history there.
And I said I gotta have a document.
And so.
My brother-in-law understood thecode where the green line, he
says he wants an Irish document.
He wants an Irish passport in his pocket.
So as I said, this has notbeen spread wide and far.
It's not in the books.
So they approached the formerSenator, John Kerry from
(24:05):
Massachusetts and he did it.
He went to the Irish ambassadorin Washington and said, you
gotta give the man a passport.
Dana Rampolla (24:16):
Wow.
Robert Morris (24:17):
So a few weeks later, I think it was in November,
this Irishman arrives at my door.
He had been pre announced, hehad been pre-checked, et cetera.
So he is probably Irish Secret Service.
His name was Seamus, forlack of a better word.
And first thing he asked me,because I have a famous middle name.
(24:43):
Is I, is your name really?
Robert Emmett.
And Robert Emmett is a famous heroand the Irish resistance heroic.
His statue is on MassachusettsAvenue in Washington DC and he
said, well, if your name is RobertEmett, you have to be Irish.
(25:03):
And so he gave me the document.
Now, it wasn't actually apassport, it's a laissez-passer.
French, they say the right to pass.
But that made me more secure.
So at that same point that we'rereceiving this, the Irish government
now had taken over with people like meand said, you have to come to Baghdad.
(25:27):
So we said, well, howdo we get to Baghdad?
We don't even have any money.
And they said, well, we, we'll getyou the money, but you have to get on
an airplane out this at at this AirForce base where they're running the
commercial airplanes to Baghdad, whichis probably an hour away by plane.
So two of us went out there, the otherfellow with me, he was kind of a sad sack.
(25:48):
He had been drunk almost forthree months, but nevermind.
He, we go out together we act normaland we're about to get on the plane
and the secret police called me over.
I didn't know what was gonna happenand my friend had already
(26:09):
gotten on the plane.
I was off the plane, I had beenpulled aside and he said, I
wanna check your documents again.
Something like that.
He said, okay, go ahead.
So we're now on the plane andwe get to Baghdad and
a week or two passes.
(26:35):
We come up to early December orwhatever and just out of the blue,
we didn't know what we were gonna do.
We knew the invasion was gonnatake place by the US and we
didn't wanna be in Baghdad.
We wanted to be back in Kuwaitthinking it would be safer.
And just out of the blue.
It came over maybe on BBC, thatSaddam Hussein said, everyone is free.
(26:58):
And when he said that there were about9,000 hostages in the country from all
kinds of nationalities, a lot of them,if you will, maids and servants and
road workers that went there to make aliving, to send their money back home to
the Philippines or to India, et cetera.
So, that was it.
A lot of.
(27:19):
Things went on between the time thatwas announced and we got on the plane.
When we got on the plane, it was an IraqiAirways plane to Frankfurt, Germany, and
it came within about three seconds ofcrashing at the airport as we landed.
And it's a long story.
(27:39):
It's in the bookthe pilot from British Airways who landed
in Kuwait in the middle of the war.
A lawsuit has just been settledon that a couple months ago, He,
he was sitting in front of me onthe plane, so he was a 7 47 pilot.
The plane was a 7 47 and he said thatwas the time between, it was obvious we
(28:03):
were crashing to going back up becausehe came across the runway sideways.
It took about seven secondswith this horrendous roar of the
jets trying to get the plane up.
And the pilot said to me, that wasthe longest seven seconds in his life.
And he was, he was a 7 47 pilot.
So we landed and then we waited oneday and we took Pan-American Airlines.
(28:28):
It was the last time I ever took Pan Am toWashington, DC to Andrews Air Force Base.
And, and that, that is kind of the story.
Dana Rampoll (28:41):
That's incredible.
Sounds like this could be a whole movie.
Robert Morris (28:44):
Mm-hmm.
Dana Rampolla (28:44):
Well, that, that,
Robert Morris (28:45):
sorry, sorry.
It, it was offered to a movie.
I already picked who Iwanted to work Be Me.
Oh, nice.
And you know, in the UnitedStates, we go so fast, my lawyer
wanted 50,000 to start the talks.
They said we give 5,000.
And by that time.
General Schwartzkoff, ifyou remember Schwartzkoff.
Charles Schelle (29:06):
Mm-hmm.
Robert Morris (29:06):
Mm-hmm.
Started the invasion of Iraq, so no onewas interested in a movie any longer.
Charles Schelle (29:12):
So you get to Andrew's Air Force base.
What did it feel like touchingdown on American soil at that time?
Robert Morris (29:20):
That was another interesting experience.
My sister worked for Pan Am She got sometickets from my wife and two children
to come down to meet me at Andrew's.
And they knew when the flight wascoming in and you know, in typical
bureaucratic fashion, they tried tomassage the arrival of us into some
kind of everyone wave their flags andbe happy, you know, we're all back.
(29:46):
I am not sure if those bureaucratsin the State Department understood
what we had been through, and wejust wanted to get outta there.
And so the relatives were all inthe gym and they said, all right.
First they kept us away fromthem, and then I said, that's it.
I'm out.
I'm going out.
I'm in America.
I'm going out.
(30:07):
And so I just.
Left this bureaucrat who was standingup there telling us, wait, wait, wait.
I just left them and ran in and looked formy children and my wife and my dear wife.
And there they were.
And we just embraced for about 45 seconds,I picked up my little daughter who was
(30:29):
four, and I'll always remember this.
She had a tiny American flag in her hand.
She was waving it under a basketballhoop, and I thought that was so
American, so symbolic, and then all thereporters gathered around and all that.
And then there were interviewsfor weeks on end with the news.
Dana Rampolla (30:53):
Hmm.
That's just an incredible story.
Thank you for sharing it.
And I feel like I can feel emotionaljust hearing you talk, especially
about your children and your wifeand being reunited with them.
I think this reinforces what you saidyour mantra was or that you had learned.
We all have to do hard things andthese were certainly hard times.
(31:14):
You know, many of us have nevereven heard about or known, so I hope
our younger alumni appreciate yousharing such details about that story.
Robert, let's pivot for a minuteand talk a little bit about some of
the great things that you have done.
One in particular being the Mai Tam Housein Vietnam that you and your wife founded.
Can you share a little bit aboutwhat drove you to do that and
(31:36):
how you've worked together andjust what the goal of that was?
Robert Morris (31:41):
Yes, of course we're discussing my career
and uh, uh, the trajectory.
Trajectory and the fact that I wasinvolved in international health, if you
will, international policy and education.
And my work was populationbased, so to speak.
It was never just seeing a patient,an ex patient, next patient.
I didn't wanna do that.
I didn't want to do clinical dentistry.
(32:01):
I want to affect societyto changing the population.
The best I can and whateverthe size the population is.
So, I had finished up the work in Kuwait.
We had done it very, very successfullya very, very successful program
where all the Kuwaiti childrenfrom, let's say five to 12, were
(32:23):
in a disease prevention program.
That program developed into somethingequivalent to the Scandinavian Country's
approach which put it on par with thenorthern countries of Europe, which
were the gold standard in those days,and the best in what's called Southwest
Asia, Kuwait and Southwest Asia.
(32:46):
So the program finished up.
It was time to go home.
It was time to retire.
My daughter was still young, theyounger one, and my dear wife
Jill, who made this journey withme she said, we gotta educate her.
We gotta get her into high school andall that, and we gotta move her on.
And I don't think it's time tobe traipsing around the world.
(33:06):
So I just accepted.
I said, well, I'm at retirementage, let's do something else and
we'll take care of our daughter.
So.
Somewhere at that point, about two yearslater again, I always had an affinity
for Vietnam and the people I met there,I never considered them my enemy.
I liked them.
They caused me problems, ofcourse, and it's in my book.
(33:29):
But I liked them.
They didn't hate me.
I didn't hate them.
So I thought I could get back there andbring some of my public health expertise
through a project I would develop ratherthan some other people would develop.
And at that point I had been communicatingwith, again, with Jesuit, Boston College.
He was at Georgetown to GI Gii.
(33:50):
He's now in Myanmar as aneducational missionary.
And I knew he had been going toVietnam and I knew Vietnamese for
visiting him at Boston College.
I, I said, you know, I'm interesteddown the line of trying to find
the health project that I coulddo simply and be involved in.
And he just said, gimme the resume and.
(34:10):
I did, and a while came, a while, wentby and he he called me at one point
and said, let's go out to dinner.
He said, would you be willingto sponsor an orphanage?
And Jill and I were together and I feltstrangely, the sunset of our careers.
(34:33):
It was a most fantastic offer.
Whatever it meant to be ableto help sponsor people who
don't have any place to go.
So the, it turned out it was an orphanagefor HIV age children, and it was founded
by a father John Schwa, who belongs to theorder of St. Kalis, which is missionaries
(35:00):
of the Affirm infirm from Italy.
And they are religious people, butthey're all health professionals, the
the full range of health professions.
And their main focus was in Italywith old age homes and bringing the
agent through their end of life.
But with the Italian health system,the public health system, the
(35:24):
government took that over and thenthey would maybe stay there, but
the government paid for everything.
So they really didn'thave that much to do.
So over Vietnam, this young priest joinedthe order and then he became the leader.
And I'd say, I'd say the first thinghe did was to establish this orphanage.
(35:44):
So what, after going over and meetinghim, we agreed that we would provide,
in the language of internationaldevelopment, we would provide.
The seed money or the startupmoney for the orphanage.
And then we would provide whatever publichealth experience we could provide,
educational experience, et cetera.
(36:07):
And so we did that.
And for him, for the priest, he,he equates that, that Jill and I
were the founders of the orphanage.
And Jill and I say we're not the founders.
He is, and it's 20 years this year.
I was hoping he's coming next month.
He's not.
It's 20 years.
It's been a fantastic experience.
(36:28):
It is in my own mind.
And others the best orphanage in Vietnamit's a full social service program.
It also includes mothers with HIV.
The infants are HIV positive,AIDS positive or liver.
Affected by AIDS being that thebrother or sister have aids and
(36:51):
then the mothers who live have aids.
And we have reached a thousandclients over the years.
And just for this talk, I was doing alittle data analysis and, and over 20
years, this is this year, 20 years,we've had a 1.7% mortality rate.
(37:11):
Where the expected mortality ratein a group of children like that,
children with age, but being treatedwould be up about five to 7%.
And if the children weren'ttreated, the mortality rate is 35%.
Charles Schelle (37:27):
Hmm.
Rober (37:27):
So the orphanage and Jill and I take No, no praise at all for it.
The orphanage is highly successfuland in my mind, the best in Vietnam.
So.
It was just wonderful.
It came outta the blue and it madethe sunset of our career, if you will,
more rewarding than anything else.
Dana Rampolla (37:49):
Do you feel like all of that work in some ways
helped to de-stigmatize AIDSand HIV in those communities?
Robert Morris (37:57):
That's what we've discussed in the last, several months.
The last couple of years that Iasked Father John twice, I asked
him, why do we have less clients?
He said, well, they're going back homeand a lot of 'em are getting older and
they're graduating and going to college.
Some are going back home.
He said, because we've talked to thepeople in Saigon, Ho Chi Minh City,
(38:21):
it's called, and now they understandthat the child is on one tablet a day.
Can go to school, doesn'thave to tell anyone.
Teachers can keep their mouthshut, so to speak, and that's it.
No one has to know anything.
Or they can come home, themother and father have died.
(38:42):
They can come home and bewith the extended family.
And yes, and again, that's the way.
Father Twy works.
He's, he's we many people.
And you, it is in theinternational literature.
It's online.
They call him a living saint.
So he is, without a doubt, the mostremarkable person I've ever met.
(39:04):
So again, we were very lucky.
We just fell upon it, so tospeak, and we were able to give
a little money to start it up.
Charles Schelle (39:16):
You, you do a lot of great things with that.
House in Vietnam and I, I saw, youset up ways for, for the mothers
to, to earn income too, right?
Like dressmaking, right?
Robert Morris (39:28):
Yes.
There was a talk as we went along wherethere were more mothers and how, how
could the orphanage or thecenter, you know, allow them
to be more prosperous in life?
'cause they've probably lost theirhusband, they have no money and
they're sick, but they're on medicine.
And so different ideas came up andsome things work, some things fail.
(39:51):
I noted and the priest.
Father had a flower farm not too far away.
I said, why don't we do some of those highexpensive flower arrangements, have them
do flower arrangements, take 'em around tothe embassies, the hotels, and all that.
And that worked for a while, but theythe orphanage found out that the driver.
(40:18):
Taking the flowers aroundwith stealing the money.
So that's fair.
It's, it happens.
It always happens.
And then they got into some dressmaking, which my wife is very
familiar with, and they got somehigh end sewing machines from Japan.
If you're into that business, thoseare high end and they were able to
(40:41):
start making these wedding dresses.
Which are very important inVietnam during New Year's.
New Year's is called te the Tet Holidays.
So certain Tet holidays, everyone'sgetting married, who's gonna get
married, so it's a good chance tocharge a lot of money, so to speak.
And do a beautiful dress.
(41:02):
And they, the, the ladies,my wife who knows it, said
they know what they're doing.
So that was wonderful.
Yes.
That was one of the ways of making money.
Yeah.
Charles Schelle (41:10):
Yeah.
That, that's fantastic.
We've, we've only dived into a, asliver of, of your career between all
the tri triumphs and challenges anddangers that, that we've heard about.
As you think about, talking to the,the next generations of healthcare
and public service leaders,especially maybe those in dentistry
(41:31):
who've seen what, what you've done.
That your, your career as adentist doesn't have to be confined
to a chair and, and an office.
It can be anywhere andyou can do anything.
So, like, what message do you want toleave with, with these young professionals
and, and these students in dental school?
Robert Mor (41:48):
Well, you know, I, I talked to the dean, Mark Reynolds,
I, I talked to him about this whenI received this honorary doctorate.
And I kind of said, well, why me?
And you know, he said, well, becauseyou've shown that the field of dentistry
is extraordinarily broad, if you will.
It doesn't mean you have to sit in aprivate office work with two other people.
(42:12):
You can look into many areas.
And I think the dentists are doing that.
I think they're not so much looking atwhat they can do abroad, but I would
say that's not necessarily their fault.
What I did, very few other people did.
There were two or three of usout there for their whole career,
(42:35):
so to speak that I ever met.
And mostly they were, uh.
with the group I'm working,and it might've been one or two
other people, but I continued it.
And so it's not an easy thing to advisepeople to do, but I think when I look
at what the University of Marylandis doing is trying to extend itself
internationally, I I, I praise that.
(42:57):
And I, I asked Mark Reynolds, Isaid, I, I agree what you're doing
and who's, who's, who's pushing it.
And he said he is.
And so, yeah.
So maybe the students.
Between what they see me doing andwhat the school and the university
is pushing an international approachthey'll look at that and realize there's
(43:17):
a lot more than just staying, let'ssay in Maryland or staying in Texas.
All that.
You know, we talked a little bit, Idon't wanna slip by, but how the school
helped me on my first job, which was togo to Trinidad to develop this dental
nursing school, this dental nursingconcept, it was well known in, in British
(43:38):
colonies and it was in New Zealand.
It was founded in New Zealand,may, New Zealand, maybe 1916.
So we applied that program in Trinidadand last year we had our 48th anniversary.
So that program provided a new healthcareprofessionals that could treat children
(43:59):
after two years of training in 13countries of the Caribbean and Central
America, and last year we had the 48threunion of the group of the groups.
And I would say with due respectthat the UN doesn't have any other
project that's lasted 48 years.
So that was a success.
(44:22):
Now it's winding down becausepeople change opinions.
New professionals come in, newministers come into the health ministry.
Why are we spending money there?
And you have to havevery strong advocates.
So in most of the countries, it's slowingdown, but it's still going in Trinidad.
Charles Sch (44:38):
Yeah, you're right.
UMB still to this day does a lot withinternational education and providing
students with opportunities abroad.
So I actually wanna give a quick plug.
The School of Social Work recentlylaunched a podcast called Social Work is
Everywhere, and you'll hear stories aboutall the different international
research and education going on there.
(45:00):
So, get out and see the worldand, and, you know, do your thing.
Essentially, UMB will willprovide a way for that.
Robert Morris (45:07):
Yeah, I, I did, I read about that and I was impressed.
I, I'm, I'm very impressed with theUniversity of Maryland, Baltimore,
when I read, when I do read itthe outreach that's going on.
Yeah.
Either locally or at a long distance.
Yeah.
Dana Rampolla (45:22):
Well, and also quite impressive.
You've done all of these things inyour life and, and you also continue
to learn you're a lifelong learner.
And I believe you told me youjust recently got a postgraduate
diploma in was it Irish studies?
Robert Morris (45:36):
Yes.
Yeah, that's right.
So
Dana Rampolla (45:39):
you still find time to do these things.
Robert Mo (45:42):
I should have done it during COVID, but it wasn't there.
So what happened was that.
My relatives are from Ireland,my ancestors, I should say.
And they came over, some of them justbefore the Irish famine, and some
came over after the Irish family.
But the ones that came overand Irish Island has a long
history and a long reputation.
(46:05):
They came over, and I say this withrespect there were ref refugees in the
country, if you will immigrants, andthey all became doctors or pharmacists.
After leaving Island, we justcouldn't figure that out.
How did they get into Harvardin 1850 as Irish Catholics?
How did they ever do that?
And I wanted to find out moreabout Island and more about my
(46:28):
history because difficult to findall other documents are lost.
And so I was lookingat it for a course and.
I couldn't get it in Boston.
And they were all too expensive.
They were at the full rate, and youhad to take a master's or a PhD.
I said, I don't wanna pay fullrates anymore to have fun.
(46:49):
And this course came up at theUniversity of Galway, which was then
the National University of Galway.
Now it's the University of Galway.
And the fees were very reasonableand it would be all online,
a little bit of a challenge.
It would be two years, it'dbe equivalent to a master.
It would be in Irish studies and it wouldbe a survey course, and it was fantastic.
(47:11):
In retrospect, it was wonderful.
I enjoyed it so much.
Again, what you said ispart of lifelong learning.
You have to be prepared to do it because.
I was writing papers everyweek for two, two years.
And my wife and I was playingIrish music too at the same time.
My wife was very upset,although it's awfully beautiful.
(47:32):
And so I got the degree andunfortunately, tragedy hit the family.
My sister died when I was to get thediploma, so I couldn't go get it.
I wanted to go get it 'cause I could goget a Guinness at the same time, you know?
Right,
Dana Rampolla (47:47):
right.
Robert Morris (47:48):
And, always famous for drinking.
I couldn't get it, so Itold 'em I can't come.
And I said, I just want to know one thing.
Am I the oldest one in the class?
They said, indeed, you arethe oldest one in the class.
So they said they want you to writean article about why you did this,
and I think I told you the title waschasing Knowledge at the age of 81.
(48:10):
AndI'm waiting for them to publish that.
Dana Rampolla (48:13):
That's wonderful.
You are so inspirational and I reallyjust appreciate hearing all of your,
your stories and your wealth of knowledgeand I look forward to getting your book.
I did wanna, before we sign off, Robert,thank you again for being with us today
and sharing your wisdom with the world.
Tell us how can we get a copy?
You have two books out there and howcan we get a copy if we're interested?
Robert Morris (48:36):
First, thank you so much for inviting me.
I, I hope that somehow the studentsthe new students there get a chance to
think about some of these activities andthat what I did can be an inspiration
of sorts to them, to the students.
I was hoping that at the gra atthe graduation, that would've more
(48:56):
conversations, the books you either.
Write to Amazon or to through Amazon forthe book called The Life of My Choice.
And that is about whatwe're talking about.
I made these choices in lifeand in the end I'm satisfied.
So it's a biography from the beginning.
(49:18):
And the second book is about theinvasion of Kuwait being a hostage,
and you and I talked about this,what does the word hostage mean?
And people would say, well.
No one had a gun on you all the time.
They only had a gun on youfor four days or three days.
No one had a gun on you.
But a hostage in international termsis someone who is not allowed to
leave the place they're stuck in.
(49:40):
So all these people in Kuwaitwere international hostages.
According to international law.
So that book, 120 Days in Deep HidingHow to Outwit with the Outwitting, the
Iraqi army that is published by Xlibris.
That's X-libris.
(50:01):
No e-x.
Xlibris.com.
So you order directly from them.
You just go online.
You Google these and you should find them.
I hope you do buy them.
They're good.
They should have been amovie once, but they're not.
Well certainly
Dana (50:14):
would've been a good one.
Charles Schelle (50:15):
Great.
Fantastic.
I'm glad you could share yourstory with us and thank you for
joining us on the UMB Pulse.
Robert Morri (50:21):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Jena (50:29):
The UMB Pulse with Charles Schelle and Dana Rampolla is a UMB
Office of Communications and PublicAffairs production edited by Charles
Schelle, marketing by Dana Rampolla
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