June 5, 2026 • 28 mins
On this month’s “The UMB Pulse” podcast, University of Maryland School of Social Work researcher Lisa Berlin, PhD, MS, discusses how early infant-caregiver relationships shape children’s emotional, behavioral, and physical health development.
Berlin, the Alison L. Richman Professor of Children and Families and an MPower Professor, is an expert in attachment security who explains why responsive caregiving helps infants build trust, regulate stress, and develop healthier long-term expectations about relationships and support.
Berlin also discusses Attachment and Biobehavioral Catch-up (ABC), a 10-session parent coaching program designed to strengthen supportive caregiving behaviors. Her current collaborative study with 245 low-income Latina mothers and infants in East Baltimore examines how parenting behaviors, sleep, feeding, stress regulation, and immune system functioning may influence lifelong health outcomes.
Researchers are also exploring how programs like ABC could eventually expand through systems such as Head Start and Maryland Judy Centers to support more families across the state.
Learn more about Berlin's research at https://www.umaryland.edu/research/breakthroughs/strong-start/
Listen to “The UMB Pulse” on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you like to listen. “The UMB Pulse” is now also on YouTube. Visit our website at umaryland.edu/pulse or email us at umbpulse@umaryland.edu.
00:00 You Can’t Spoil a Baby: The Science of Early Attachment
00:30 Meet Dr Lisa Berlin
02:18 What Secure Attachment Means
05:20 ABC Program Explained
08:05 Study Community And Measures
13:28 Pick Up The Crying Baby
14:45 Brain Expectations And Plasticity
17:44 Stress Sleep And Immune Health
20:49 Key Takeaways For Caregivers
22:22 Research Timeline And Team
24:21 Scaling ABC And Prevention
26:56 Hopeful Closing And Resources
Listen to The UMB Pulse on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you like to listen. The UMB Pulse is also now on YouTube.
Visit our website at umaryland.edu/pulse or email us at umbpulse@umaryland.edu.
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Dana Rampolla (00:00):
Don't pick them up too much or you'll spoil them.
I feel like that's one of thosepieces of advice that just gets
passed down through the generations,whether it's right or not.
And now, as a new grandparent, I'lladmit I've caught myself wondering,
okay, what actually is true here?
Because as it turns out, thoseeveryday moments like holding
a baby and responding when theycry aren't just comforting.
(00:22):
Researchers now say that they'reshaping how a child's brain develops,
how they handle stress, and evenhow their body functions over time.
At the University of MarylandBaltimore, Dr. Lisa Berlin is studying
how those earliest relationships caninfluence a child's lifelong health.
Berlin is the Alison L. RichmanProfessor of Children and Families
(00:42):
at the University of Maryland Schoolof Social Work, and an expert in
early child to caregiver attachment.
She is also an MPower professor,as part of her collaborative
research with colleagues at theUniversity of Maryland College Park.
Today on the UMB Pulse, I sit downwith Dr. Berlin to talk about how a
simple home-based parenting programis helping caregivers get those
(01:04):
early moments right, and why itmatters more than we might think.
Jena Frick (01:12):
You're listening to the heartbeat of the University of
Maryland Baltimore, the UMB Pulse.
Dana Rampolla (01:26):
So Lisa, welcome to the UMB Pulse Podcast.
Lisa Berlin (01:30):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Happy to be here.
Dana Rampolla (01:33):
No, we are happy to have you.
And as a mom of five and now a grandmathat two of my children have had
babies in the last three years, wenow have five grand- grandchildren.
I'm learning apparently Idon't know as much as I thought
I knew about raising kids.
I'm hoping today you'll you know, openmy eyes a little bit and certainly help
our listening population understand allthat they're, there is with talking to
(01:57):
and interacting with young children.
Lisa, let's start today by helpingme and our listeners understand what
that means, what attachment securityis, and how we can best as parents
and grandparents help our childrenand our grandchildren to develop this.
Lisa Berlin (02:10):
First of all, congratulations on
becoming a grandparent.
That is an amazinggift for all involved.
Well, my whole program of researchis rooted in decades of research,
and not necessarily my own, a lotof which, you know, came before me,
(02:32):
that demonstrates the importanceof the earliest years of children's
earliest environments and especially ofchildren's earliest relationships for
both short and long-term development.
So given that and the fact that infantsand children can't vote, And I realize
(03:01):
that's a big, that's a big jump tomake, but my concern is with doing all
that we can to protect and promote andsupport those earliest relationships.
So for me, that means providingday-to-day, you know, that
means providing and evaluatingand disseminating programs that
(03:28):
support those early relationships.
And especially that supportinfant attachment security.
And what, what we mean by that isnot whether or not a baby is attached
to their caregiver or caregivers.
(03:50):
Most are in one form or another.
But we want the form that is secure,that is a relationship where the baby
understands that they can rely on theircaregiver to take care of them in times
(04:10):
of both distress and non-distress.
And really look to them as what iscalled a secure base and a safe haven.
So a safe haven in times of distressor trouble which, you know, for a baby
can mean a lot of different things.
But also in times of exploring.
(04:34):
The job of a baby is to exploretheir immediate environment.
So sometimes, you know, supportivecaregiving means just pushing that toy
or object that a baby is reaching forjust a little closer into their grasp.
Or moving things out of the waywhen they're just learning how
(04:55):
to crawl or walk by themselves.
Or certainly picking them upwhen they're crying, especially
in the very first year of life.
Those are the caregiving behaviorsthat promote a secure attachment,
and those are the caregivingbehaviors that the programs I am most
(05:16):
interested in are designed to support.
Dana Rampolla (05:20):
And what is the ABC program that you're working
with, and what are the long-termimpacts of that research.
Lisa Berl (05:26):
ABC is an acronym for Attachment and Biobehavioral Catch-up.
It is a parent coaching program, brief10 sessions, but pretty intensive
in that it involves a parent coachworking one-on-one with a parent
or caregiver in their home orvirtually over telehealth, for, for
(05:53):
10 specific sessions that really aimto educate and help parents practice
and master these kind of supportiveparenting behaviors that we often
call sensitive parenting behaviors.
So they are really maximizing theirability to serve as a secure base and a
(06:16):
safe haven for their youngest children.
I would say the ABC program is theone with the strongest evidence base
and with the- Greatest potential forbroad dissemination for a few reasons.
One is the evidence base, two is thefact that it's of short duration, and
(06:42):
three is that it has very strict rulesfor what is called program fidelity.
So people who work as parent coachespass through a strict screening protocol
before they become trained, and a strictcertification protocol in the course of
(07:04):
being trained, careful supervision, andthen recertification every two years.
And I think that level of qualitycontrol really helps ensure that
ABC is always delivered as intendedand feeds its continually positive
(07:27):
results, and makes it, in my eyes,the best candidate of these kinds of
programs to work with and to scale up.
And, and ABC is reallykind of on fire right now.
I think it's in, uh, over halfof the states in the U.S. in one
(07:52):
form or another, meaning in acouple states it's actually being
implemented statewide and I believe11 countries worldwide at last count.
Dana R (08:05):
So as a new grandparent, I can imagine those early months
come with a lot of uncertainty.
I sort of remember back that far.
What kinds of questions orchallenges are you hearing from
families that you are working with?
Lisa Berlin (08:18):
Right now my, my collaborators and I are working
most closely with low-income Latinamoms on the east side of Baltimore.
And as I'm sure you know, theyare feeling pretty challenged
right now and receiving messagesthat are not necessarily positive
(08:44):
about who they are and what we do.
So, you know, being able to tunethat out and focus on child rearing I
think is, is a, a big task right now.
Dana Ra (08:58):
Are they looking to you to provide specific parenting answers?
Lisa Berlin (09:03):
That is what we, that is what we show up to do.
Um, so when they agree to be in theprogram and to be in the study that
we're conducting to evaluate the programin, in that community, they understand
that it's focused on, you know,specific parenting tools, if you will.
Dana Rampolla (09:22):
Okay, okay.
And I understand that you don'thave definitive results in yet.
It's all a work in progress, but duringyour research so far tell us what types
of things are you actually measuring?
You know, what are you tryingto figure out if it's working?
Lisa Berl (09:36):
Well, the first thing that we're measuring is actual
parenting behavior, and we do thatthrough observational video recorded
assessments of the moms and theirbabies both before and after they've
received the program, and in comparisonto a randomly assigned control group
(09:59):
that does not receive the ABC program.
So we have lots and lots of videoof observed parenting behaviors.
That's our first outcome of interest.
But in this particular study, givenquite concerning early physical
health disparities in low-incomeLatino children, we're also looking
(10:23):
at health behaviors that are bothvery much part of early attachment
relationships, such as feeding andsleeping that also predict children's
future physical health outcomes.
So we're interested in whatwe call baby BMI, which is the
(10:49):
proportion, baby's proportionof their weight to their length.
So the extent to which they're, youknow, r- roughly at a, at a reasonably
healthy weight early in life.
There are, you know, concerns aboutobesity prevention in this community.
So one of the things that we'relooking at is feeding behavior
(11:12):
and sleeping and baby weightin proportion to their length.
We're also looking at immune systemfunction when the kids turn 2 years old.
Look at the extent to which we're seeingany kind of systemic inflammation that
can forecast later health concerns.
Dana Rampolla (11:33):
Interesting.
Are there any things that have kindof surprised you along the way?
Lisa Berlin (11:38):
Well, I got excited about working with this ABC
program for, for a few reasons.
One of which, one of whichwas somewhat surprising.
So just to be clear,this is not my program.
It was developed by a colleague,Mary Dozier, at the University of
Delaware, so just, you know, aboutan hour up the road from here.
(12:03):
Uh, especially for families withchildren who had experienced adversity.
So maybe concerns about maltreatmentor instit- early institutional
rearing in uh, countries outsideof the US, so internationally
adopted infants and toddlers.
(12:25):
So the ABC program has really,has really caught fire I think
because of its combination ofbeing short yet intensive and
having a strong evidence base.
Um, so I got interested in kind of-Working with the program in a more
(12:47):
preventive way, working with theprogram specifically with Latina
families, and in the meantime I'mwatching Dr. Dozier and her team's
findings after findings showingincreasingly long-term effects um,
positive impacts of ABC participationwhen kids are 10 and 12 years old
(13:12):
after 10 sessions during infancy.
So I don't know if that surprised me.
It makes sense.
It's consistent with what-consistent with what we'd
expect and what we'd want.
But that's pretty impressive.
Dana Rampolla (13:26):
Yeah, for sure.
One of the things that stoodout to me is the idea that you
spoil a baby by picking them up.
I mean, I heard that when I wasa young mom, and I'm hearing
it now, and I'll admit even asa grandparent it's something,
you know, we all wonder about.
Lisa B (13:41):
Yes, I'm glad you asked.
The research that shows thepositive impacts of what we call
nurturance providing soothing andsupport in response to distress.
And what the research showsis that the more you do that,
the less that babies cry.
(14:03):
They are not gettingspoiled or difficult.
They're learning that there are peoplearound them who will help them calm
down when they're upset and who willteach them that they, too have the
ability to calm themselves down.
So there's a, you know, there'skind of a transfer of effect.
(14:25):
So that's a very important messageto, to get out there, especially in
the first year of life when cryingis one of infants', you know, most
direct forms of communication, and oneof their few forms of communication.
Dana Rampol (14:45):
Well, kind of along that same line you've said that
brain development isn't exactly yourfocus and that babies are growing,
I think you had said, a millionneural connections per second.
What's happening to the brain duringthose early interactions when either
a parent tells their child to usetheir words to explain what they're
upset about or when they're physicallypresent to take them maybe, and I
(15:06):
guess this would be a little bit of anolder child than maybe a one-year-old,
but taking them to, like, an opengymnastics class and they're holding
their hand on the balance beam insteadof trying to force them to do it alone?
How is that all connected?
Lis (15:19):
Well, the more consistently those kind of supportive behaviors,
caregiving behaviors happen- The morethat infants and children develop
an expectation, this is what's goingto happen in, you know, every time I
get upset or I try to do something,there's someone here to soothe me.
(15:43):
There's someone here to support me.
Um, so it becomes efficient torely on our expectations, right?
Instead of figuring itout in every situation.
So the more the situationsgive the same message, the more
that we have, we expect, wethink we act on the presumption
(16:07):
that, okay, you've got my back.
People around me are mainlysupportive, and new people who
I meet are gonna be supportive.
So the idea is that, you know, theseexpectations start to become kind
of a pattern of thinking, a way ofbehaving based on those expectations
(16:31):
that then, you know, continue toguide thinking, behavior, and future
interactions and relationships.
Dana Rampolla (16:42):
Right.
Right.
Lisa Berl (16:43):
It's, um, it's a very early, you know, infancy and early,
the early childhood years are avery plastic time of development.
We are, you know, extremely easilyinfluenced during that time as we
try to make sense of our world.
So our, what our earliest brainsare doing is trying to put all this
(17:06):
information together and understandwhat is, what is happening in my world.
Who are, who are these people aroundme on whom I am completely dependent
and what are they teaching me about howrelationships can and should function?
And we take that informationand we, we bring it forward.
(17:27):
It helps to explain why peopleare confident or less secure, for
example, in new social situations.
Dana Rampolla (17:38):
Hmm.
Yeah.
When I think of the adults Iknow, it makes me wonder, right?
Your research, Lisa, connects theseearly relationships not just to
emotional development as you mentionedearlier, but also to things like
sleep and stress and immune health.
How, how are they connected?
Can you dive into that a little more?
Lisa (17:57):
Yes, I love that question.
I like to think about what, what weexpect as a chain reaction where we're
trying to promote- Maximally supportiveparenting behaviors, which then support
infants' stress regulation, right?
If you think of crying and responseto crying, that's a, you know, a small
(18:22):
concrete example of regulating stress.
I'm upset and you helpme become less upset.
A well-regulated systemis a healthier system.
A well-fed, well-restedsystem is a healthier system.
So there's our chain reaction fromparenting to stress regulation to
(18:46):
physiological regulation as thebasis for long-term physical health,
including immune system functioning.
That is the hypothesis that, thatour current study is testing with,
with these East Baltimore kiddos.
Dana Rampolla (19:05):
Okay.
And when you think about thatlong-term impact, how do you think
that they, these early relationshipsshape the outcomes later in life?
Lisa Berlin (19:14):
Yeah, well I think they have the opportunity
to be a protective factor.
When attachments are secure, whenearly parenting is consistently
supportive, then I think, I thinkit works as a protective system,
um, helping children be regulated,learn how to regulate themselves,
(19:39):
especially their most intense feelingsand eat well and sleep well and
function more healthily long-term.
This is not to say, that if you'renot securely attached as an infant
or you don't have ideally supportiveearly experiences, that you're doomed
(20:03):
during your teenage or adult years.
But I think it does harken back to thefamous quote of Frederick Douglass,
that, "It is easier to build strongchildren than to fix broken men."
I think if we provide earlypreventive supportive resources that
(20:26):
that protects human development.
And if we don't then we will likelybe investing more resources later
to help people heal from adverse,problematic, traumatic experiences.
(20:47):
I think that's pretty clear.
Dana Rampolla (20:49):
As someone now watching this through a grandparent
lens, I can't help but thinkit, it makes me wonder about all
those small moments differently.
You know, if caregivers and whether it'sparents or grandparents take a couple
of important things from your research,what would you want us to take away?
Lisa Berli (21:06):
Well, that's a great question because it brings all this
research to, you know, the, the realworld, the real people day-to-day.
Um, so I would say two things.
One is pick up the crying baby.
Don't worry about spoiling the baby.
Pick 'em up and hold 'emclose and then go from there.
(21:31):
Most likely that baby is gonna cry lessand less as time goes on and as their
security and their confidence builds.
But the other thing I wouldsay is don't let the perfect
be the enemy of the good.
Meaning- All this parenting researchinformation that we now have in
(21:55):
2026 is quite powerful, but itdoesn't have to be overwhelming
and overpowering of just day-to-daygood enough parenting interactions.
I would say aim to be a goodenough parent and that really...
(22:15):
Not a perfect parent.
A good enough parentreally is good enough.
, Dana Rampolla (22:22):
How long will your research continue, and will
there be like a second phase thataccompanies what you're doing?
Lisa Berlin (22:29):
Oh, yes.
Um, so well, Dr. Dozieris always an advisor.
The ABC program is still her baby.
Um, so and we're very fortunateto work directly with her.
But actually, my maincollaborator is Natalie Slopen.
Um, Dr. Slopen and I met whenshe was at the University of
(22:51):
Maryland School of Public Health.
She's now at the HarvardSchool of Public Health.
She is an epidemiologist bytraining who really is the, is the
leader in our study in thinkingabout social determinants of
health and how early relationshipsand attachments might relate to
children's physical health outcomes.
(23:13):
So we're at the point wherewe just finished recruiting
participants into our study.
We have 245 participants thatI'm very excited to have.
And we expect to be wrapping up ourpost-program data collection in the
(23:35):
next about year and analyzing ourprogram impacts during that time, and
maybe thinking about a, a follow-upstudy with these families as well.
Dana Rampolla (23:47):
Great.
Yeah, something far down theline would be interesting.
Dr. Berlin, thank you so much forsharing all of your knowledge with us
today and helping us understand what'sbeing done in the area of, of childhood
research, and we look forward tolearning more and, and learning more,
especially when your data is, is in.
I'm gonna sign off and go holdone of my grand babies and give
(24:09):
them a cuddle even, even if mydaughter thinks I'm spoiling them.
Lisa Ber (24:13):
Well, thank you, Dana.
Thank you so much.
It's always fun to talkabout these things.
Charles Sche (24:21):
While Dr. Berlin's current study focuses on Latina mothers
and infants in East Baltimore, thebigger goal stretches far beyond one
neighborhood or one group of families.
Researchers are now looking at howprograms like ABC, the Attachment and
Biobehavioral Catch-up, could eventuallyexpand existing early childhood
(24:42):
systems across Maryland and beyond.
Lisa Berlin (24:45):
There's a couple questions to, to resolve there.
One is referrals, what's the best wayto create a kind of consistent pipeline
of families who are interested, whoknow about ABC and who are interested
in receiving it so that there'salways a good match-up if we have ABC
(25:05):
parent coaches available for buildingcapacity in that regard, then we
want them to be busy all the time.
I think some combination of public andprivate resources will be required.
And, you know, one thing that mightbe a good model is to embed ABC in
(25:27):
existing early childhood programsthat cover a lot of bases but don't
necessarily support caregiving andattachment as rigorously as does ABC.
So here I'm thinking about HeadStart, for example, which is quite
comprehensive in many ways butdoesn't support caregiving, parenting
(25:51):
behaviors, attachment securitythis precisely or impactfully.
Or for example, the Judy Centers thatare spread throughout the state of
Maryland could, could be an interestingplatform and group of collaborators.
Charles Schelle (26:09):
For Berlin, this research is ultimately about
prevention, investing early inchildren and families before bigger
struggles emerge later in life.
Lisa Berlin (26:18):
This goes back to the body of research that I talked
about in the very beginning, whichreally links supportive, secure
early experiences and development tolater social skills, mental health,
(26:40):
attentional skills, kind of softschool s- skills in young children.
Language skills even in childrenwe're seeing as a result of ABC and
linked to early attachment security.
Charles Schelle (26:56):
And despite the stress many families are facing
today, Berlin says the parents sheworks with continue to give her hope.
Lisa Berlin (27:03):
You know, with all the parents I work with I, I can't
think of anything they want moreurgently than for their child
or their children to be okay.
And when I look at the moms we'reworking with now, for example, who are
really under tremendous strain and seethem eagerly being present for their
(27:31):
children, being sweetly nurturing totheir babies, it is really inspiring
and gives me hope more than anything.
Charles Sche (27:43):
You can learn more about Dr. Lisa Berlin's research
and the ABC Parenting Program atumaryland.edu/breakthroughs, or
find a link in our show notes.
For The UMB Pulse, I'm Charles Schelle.
Spea (28:00):
The UMB Pulse with Charles Schelle and Dana Rampolla is a UMB
Office of Communications and PublicAffairs production edited by Charles
Schelle, marketing by Dana Rampolla.
Don't pick them up too much or you'll spoil them.
I feel like that's one of thosepieces of advice that just gets
passed down through the generations,whether it's right or not.
And now, as a new grandparent, I'lladmit I've caught myself wondering,
okay, what actually is true here?
Because as it turns out, thoseeveryday moments like holding
a baby and responding when theycry aren't just comforting.
(00:22):
Researchers now say that they'reshaping how a child's brain develops,
how they handle stress, and evenhow their body functions over time.
At the University of MarylandBaltimore, Dr. Lisa Berlin is studying
how those earliest relationships caninfluence a child's lifelong health.
Berlin is the Alison L. RichmanProfessor of Children and Families
(00:42):
at the University of Maryland Schoolof Social Work, and an expert in
early child to caregiver attachment.
She is also an MPower professor,as part of her collaborative
research with colleagues at theUniversity of Maryland College Park.
Today on the UMB Pulse, I sit downwith Dr. Berlin to talk about how a
simple home-based parenting programis helping caregivers get those
(01:04):
early moments right, and why itmatters more than we might think.
Jena Frick (01:12):
You're listening to the heartbeat of the University of
Maryland Baltimore, the UMB Pulse.
Dana Rampolla (01:26):
So Lisa, welcome to the UMB Pulse Podcast.
Lisa Berlin (01:30):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Happy to be here.
Dana Rampolla (01:33):
No, we are happy to have you.
And as a mom of five and now a grandmathat two of my children have had
babies in the last three years, wenow have five grand- grandchildren.
I'm learning apparently Idon't know as much as I thought
I knew about raising kids.
I'm hoping today you'll you know, openmy eyes a little bit and certainly help
our listening population understand allthat they're, there is with talking to
(01:57):
and interacting with young children.
Lisa, let's start today by helpingme and our listeners understand what
that means, what attachment securityis, and how we can best as parents
and grandparents help our childrenand our grandchildren to develop this.
Lisa Berlin (02:10):
First of all, congratulations on
becoming a grandparent.
That is an amazinggift for all involved.
Well, my whole program of researchis rooted in decades of research,
and not necessarily my own, a lotof which, you know, came before me,
(02:32):
that demonstrates the importanceof the earliest years of children's
earliest environments and especially ofchildren's earliest relationships for
both short and long-term development.
So given that and the fact that infantsand children can't vote, And I realize
(03:01):
that's a big, that's a big jump tomake, but my concern is with doing all
that we can to protect and promote andsupport those earliest relationships.
So for me, that means providingday-to-day, you know, that
means providing and evaluatingand disseminating programs that
(03:28):
support those early relationships.
And especially that supportinfant attachment security.
And what, what we mean by that isnot whether or not a baby is attached
to their caregiver or caregivers.
(03:50):
Most are in one form or another.
But we want the form that is secure,that is a relationship where the baby
understands that they can rely on theircaregiver to take care of them in times
(04:10):
of both distress and non-distress.
And really look to them as what iscalled a secure base and a safe haven.
So a safe haven in times of distressor trouble which, you know, for a baby
can mean a lot of different things.
But also in times of exploring.
(04:34):
The job of a baby is to exploretheir immediate environment.
So sometimes, you know, supportivecaregiving means just pushing that toy
or object that a baby is reaching forjust a little closer into their grasp.
Or moving things out of the waywhen they're just learning how
(04:55):
to crawl or walk by themselves.
Or certainly picking them upwhen they're crying, especially
in the very first year of life.
Those are the caregiving behaviorsthat promote a secure attachment,
and those are the caregivingbehaviors that the programs I am most
(05:16):
interested in are designed to support.
Dana Rampolla (05:20):
And what is the ABC program that you're working
with, and what are the long-termimpacts of that research.
Lisa Berl (05:26):
ABC is an acronym for Attachment and Biobehavioral Catch-up.
It is a parent coaching program, brief10 sessions, but pretty intensive
in that it involves a parent coachworking one-on-one with a parent
or caregiver in their home orvirtually over telehealth, for, for
(05:53):
10 specific sessions that really aimto educate and help parents practice
and master these kind of supportiveparenting behaviors that we often
call sensitive parenting behaviors.
So they are really maximizing theirability to serve as a secure base and a
(06:16):
safe haven for their youngest children.
I would say the ABC program is theone with the strongest evidence base
and with the- Greatest potential forbroad dissemination for a few reasons.
One is the evidence base, two is thefact that it's of short duration, and
(06:42):
three is that it has very strict rulesfor what is called program fidelity.
So people who work as parent coachespass through a strict screening protocol
before they become trained, and a strictcertification protocol in the course of
(07:04):
being trained, careful supervision, andthen recertification every two years.
And I think that level of qualitycontrol really helps ensure that
ABC is always delivered as intendedand feeds its continually positive
(07:27):
results, and makes it, in my eyes,the best candidate of these kinds of
programs to work with and to scale up.
And, and ABC is reallykind of on fire right now.
I think it's in, uh, over halfof the states in the U.S. in one
(07:52):
form or another, meaning in acouple states it's actually being
implemented statewide and I believe11 countries worldwide at last count.
Dana R (08:05):
So as a new grandparent, I can imagine those early months
come with a lot of uncertainty.
I sort of remember back that far.
What kinds of questions orchallenges are you hearing from
families that you are working with?
Lisa Berlin (08:18):
Right now my, my collaborators and I are working
most closely with low-income Latinamoms on the east side of Baltimore.
And as I'm sure you know, theyare feeling pretty challenged
right now and receiving messagesthat are not necessarily positive
(08:44):
about who they are and what we do.
So, you know, being able to tunethat out and focus on child rearing I
think is, is a, a big task right now.
Dana Ra (08:58):
Are they looking to you to provide specific parenting answers?
Lisa Berlin (09:03):
That is what we, that is what we show up to do.
Um, so when they agree to be in theprogram and to be in the study that
we're conducting to evaluate the programin, in that community, they understand
that it's focused on, you know,specific parenting tools, if you will.
Dana Rampolla (09:22):
Okay, okay.
And I understand that you don'thave definitive results in yet.
It's all a work in progress, but duringyour research so far tell us what types
of things are you actually measuring?
You know, what are you tryingto figure out if it's working?
Lisa Berl (09:36):
Well, the first thing that we're measuring is actual
parenting behavior, and we do thatthrough observational video recorded
assessments of the moms and theirbabies both before and after they've
received the program, and in comparisonto a randomly assigned control group
(09:59):
that does not receive the ABC program.
So we have lots and lots of videoof observed parenting behaviors.
That's our first outcome of interest.
But in this particular study, givenquite concerning early physical
health disparities in low-incomeLatino children, we're also looking
(10:23):
at health behaviors that are bothvery much part of early attachment
relationships, such as feeding andsleeping that also predict children's
future physical health outcomes.
So we're interested in whatwe call baby BMI, which is the
(10:49):
proportion, baby's proportionof their weight to their length.
So the extent to which they're, youknow, r- roughly at a, at a reasonably
healthy weight early in life.
There are, you know, concerns aboutobesity prevention in this community.
So one of the things that we'relooking at is feeding behavior
(11:12):
and sleeping and baby weightin proportion to their length.
We're also looking at immune systemfunction when the kids turn 2 years old.
Look at the extent to which we're seeingany kind of systemic inflammation that
can forecast later health concerns.
Dana Rampolla (11:33):
Interesting.
Are there any things that have kindof surprised you along the way?
Lisa Berlin (11:38):
Well, I got excited about working with this ABC
program for, for a few reasons.
One of which, one of whichwas somewhat surprising.
So just to be clear,this is not my program.
It was developed by a colleague,Mary Dozier, at the University of
Delaware, so just, you know, aboutan hour up the road from here.
(12:03):
Uh, especially for families withchildren who had experienced adversity.
So maybe concerns about maltreatmentor instit- early institutional
rearing in uh, countries outsideof the US, so internationally
adopted infants and toddlers.
(12:25):
So the ABC program has really,has really caught fire I think
because of its combination ofbeing short yet intensive and
having a strong evidence base.
Um, so I got interested in kind of-Working with the program in a more
(12:47):
preventive way, working with theprogram specifically with Latina
families, and in the meantime I'mwatching Dr. Dozier and her team's
findings after findings showingincreasingly long-term effects um,
positive impacts of ABC participationwhen kids are 10 and 12 years old
(13:12):
after 10 sessions during infancy.
So I don't know if that surprised me.
It makes sense.
It's consistent with what-consistent with what we'd
expect and what we'd want.
But that's pretty impressive.
Dana Rampolla (13:26):
Yeah, for sure.
One of the things that stoodout to me is the idea that you
spoil a baby by picking them up.
I mean, I heard that when I wasa young mom, and I'm hearing
it now, and I'll admit even asa grandparent it's something,
you know, we all wonder about.
Lisa B (13:41):
Yes, I'm glad you asked.
The research that shows thepositive impacts of what we call
nurturance providing soothing andsupport in response to distress.
And what the research showsis that the more you do that,
the less that babies cry.
(14:03):
They are not gettingspoiled or difficult.
They're learning that there are peoplearound them who will help them calm
down when they're upset and who willteach them that they, too have the
ability to calm themselves down.
So there's a, you know, there'skind of a transfer of effect.
(14:25):
So that's a very important messageto, to get out there, especially in
the first year of life when cryingis one of infants', you know, most
direct forms of communication, and oneof their few forms of communication.
Dana Rampol (14:45):
Well, kind of along that same line you've said that
brain development isn't exactly yourfocus and that babies are growing,
I think you had said, a millionneural connections per second.
What's happening to the brain duringthose early interactions when either
a parent tells their child to usetheir words to explain what they're
upset about or when they're physicallypresent to take them maybe, and I
(15:06):
guess this would be a little bit of anolder child than maybe a one-year-old,
but taking them to, like, an opengymnastics class and they're holding
their hand on the balance beam insteadof trying to force them to do it alone?
How is that all connected?
Lis (15:19):
Well, the more consistently those kind of supportive behaviors,
caregiving behaviors happen- The morethat infants and children develop
an expectation, this is what's goingto happen in, you know, every time I
get upset or I try to do something,there's someone here to soothe me.
(15:43):
There's someone here to support me.
Um, so it becomes efficient torely on our expectations, right?
Instead of figuring itout in every situation.
So the more the situationsgive the same message, the more
that we have, we expect, wethink we act on the presumption
(16:07):
that, okay, you've got my back.
People around me are mainlysupportive, and new people who
I meet are gonna be supportive.
So the idea is that, you know, theseexpectations start to become kind
of a pattern of thinking, a way ofbehaving based on those expectations
(16:31):
that then, you know, continue toguide thinking, behavior, and future
interactions and relationships.
Dana Rampolla (16:42):
Right.
Right.
Lisa Berl (16:43):
It's, um, it's a very early, you know, infancy and early,
the early childhood years are avery plastic time of development.
We are, you know, extremely easilyinfluenced during that time as we
try to make sense of our world.
So our, what our earliest brainsare doing is trying to put all this
(17:06):
information together and understandwhat is, what is happening in my world.
Who are, who are these people aroundme on whom I am completely dependent
and what are they teaching me about howrelationships can and should function?
And we take that informationand we, we bring it forward.
(17:27):
It helps to explain why peopleare confident or less secure, for
example, in new social situations.
Dana Rampolla (17:38):
Hmm.
Yeah.
When I think of the adults Iknow, it makes me wonder, right?
Your research, Lisa, connects theseearly relationships not just to
emotional development as you mentionedearlier, but also to things like
sleep and stress and immune health.
How, how are they connected?
Can you dive into that a little more?
Lisa (17:57):
Yes, I love that question.
I like to think about what, what weexpect as a chain reaction where we're
trying to promote- Maximally supportiveparenting behaviors, which then support
infants' stress regulation, right?
If you think of crying and responseto crying, that's a, you know, a small
(18:22):
concrete example of regulating stress.
I'm upset and you helpme become less upset.
A well-regulated systemis a healthier system.
A well-fed, well-restedsystem is a healthier system.
So there's our chain reaction fromparenting to stress regulation to
(18:46):
physiological regulation as thebasis for long-term physical health,
including immune system functioning.
That is the hypothesis that, thatour current study is testing with,
with these East Baltimore kiddos.
Dana Rampolla (19:05):
Okay.
And when you think about thatlong-term impact, how do you think
that they, these early relationshipsshape the outcomes later in life?
Lisa Berlin (19:14):
Yeah, well I think they have the opportunity
to be a protective factor.
When attachments are secure, whenearly parenting is consistently
supportive, then I think, I thinkit works as a protective system,
um, helping children be regulated,learn how to regulate themselves,
(19:39):
especially their most intense feelingsand eat well and sleep well and
function more healthily long-term.
This is not to say, that if you'renot securely attached as an infant
or you don't have ideally supportiveearly experiences, that you're doomed
(20:03):
during your teenage or adult years.
But I think it does harken back to thefamous quote of Frederick Douglass,
that, "It is easier to build strongchildren than to fix broken men."
I think if we provide earlypreventive supportive resources that
(20:26):
that protects human development.
And if we don't then we will likelybe investing more resources later
to help people heal from adverse,problematic, traumatic experiences.
(20:47):
I think that's pretty clear.
Dana Rampolla (20:49):
As someone now watching this through a grandparent
lens, I can't help but thinkit, it makes me wonder about all
those small moments differently.
You know, if caregivers and whether it'sparents or grandparents take a couple
of important things from your research,what would you want us to take away?
Lisa Berli (21:06):
Well, that's a great question because it brings all this
research to, you know, the, the realworld, the real people day-to-day.
Um, so I would say two things.
One is pick up the crying baby.
Don't worry about spoiling the baby.
Pick 'em up and hold 'emclose and then go from there.
(21:31):
Most likely that baby is gonna cry lessand less as time goes on and as their
security and their confidence builds.
But the other thing I wouldsay is don't let the perfect
be the enemy of the good.
Meaning- All this parenting researchinformation that we now have in
(21:55):
2026 is quite powerful, but itdoesn't have to be overwhelming
and overpowering of just day-to-daygood enough parenting interactions.
I would say aim to be a goodenough parent and that really...
(22:15):
Not a perfect parent.
A good enough parentreally is good enough.
, Dana Rampolla (22:22):
How long will your research continue, and will
there be like a second phase thataccompanies what you're doing?
Lisa Berlin (22:29):
Oh, yes.
Um, so well, Dr. Dozieris always an advisor.
The ABC program is still her baby.
Um, so and we're very fortunateto work directly with her.
But actually, my maincollaborator is Natalie Slopen.
Um, Dr. Slopen and I met whenshe was at the University of
(22:51):
Maryland School of Public Health.
She's now at the HarvardSchool of Public Health.
She is an epidemiologist bytraining who really is the, is the
leader in our study in thinkingabout social determinants of
health and how early relationshipsand attachments might relate to
children's physical health outcomes.
(23:13):
So we're at the point wherewe just finished recruiting
participants into our study.
We have 245 participants thatI'm very excited to have.
And we expect to be wrapping up ourpost-program data collection in the
(23:35):
next about year and analyzing ourprogram impacts during that time, and
maybe thinking about a, a follow-upstudy with these families as well.
Dana Rampolla (23:47):
Great.
Yeah, something far down theline would be interesting.
Dr. Berlin, thank you so much forsharing all of your knowledge with us
today and helping us understand what'sbeing done in the area of, of childhood
research, and we look forward tolearning more and, and learning more,
especially when your data is, is in.
I'm gonna sign off and go holdone of my grand babies and give
(24:09):
them a cuddle even, even if mydaughter thinks I'm spoiling them.
Lisa Ber (24:13):
Well, thank you, Dana.
Thank you so much.
It's always fun to talkabout these things.
Charles Sche (24:21):
While Dr. Berlin's current study focuses on Latina mothers
and infants in East Baltimore, thebigger goal stretches far beyond one
neighborhood or one group of families.
Researchers are now looking at howprograms like ABC, the Attachment and
Biobehavioral Catch-up, could eventuallyexpand existing early childhood
(24:42):
systems across Maryland and beyond.
Lisa Berlin (24:45):
There's a couple questions to, to resolve there.
One is referrals, what's the best wayto create a kind of consistent pipeline
of families who are interested, whoknow about ABC and who are interested
in receiving it so that there'salways a good match-up if we have ABC
(25:05):
parent coaches available for buildingcapacity in that regard, then we
want them to be busy all the time.
I think some combination of public andprivate resources will be required.
And, you know, one thing that mightbe a good model is to embed ABC in
(25:27):
existing early childhood programsthat cover a lot of bases but don't
necessarily support caregiving andattachment as rigorously as does ABC.
So here I'm thinking about HeadStart, for example, which is quite
comprehensive in many ways butdoesn't support caregiving, parenting
(25:51):
behaviors, attachment securitythis precisely or impactfully.
Or for example, the Judy Centers thatare spread throughout the state of
Maryland could, could be an interestingplatform and group of collaborators.
Charles Schelle (26:09):
For Berlin, this research is ultimately about
prevention, investing early inchildren and families before bigger
struggles emerge later in life.
Lisa Berlin (26:18):
This goes back to the body of research that I talked
about in the very beginning, whichreally links supportive, secure
early experiences and development tolater social skills, mental health,
(26:40):
attentional skills, kind of softschool s- skills in young children.
Language skills even in childrenwe're seeing as a result of ABC and
linked to early attachment security.
Charles Schelle (26:56):
And despite the stress many families are facing
today, Berlin says the parents sheworks with continue to give her hope.
Lisa Berlin (27:03):
You know, with all the parents I work with I, I can't
think of anything they want moreurgently than for their child
or their children to be okay.
And when I look at the moms we'reworking with now, for example, who are
really under tremendous strain and seethem eagerly being present for their
(27:31):
children, being sweetly nurturing totheir babies, it is really inspiring
and gives me hope more than anything.
Charles Sche (27:43):
You can learn more about Dr. Lisa Berlin's research
and the ABC Parenting Program atumaryland.edu/breakthroughs, or
find a link in our show notes.
For The UMB Pulse, I'm Charles Schelle.
Spea (28:00):
The UMB Pulse with Charles Schelle and Dana Rampolla is a UMB
Office of Communications and PublicAffairs production edited by Charles
Schelle, marketing by Dana Rampolla.
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