the cycling community with Andy Chasteen (ep 2b, 41).

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In this episode, we sit back down with Andy Chasteen, co-founder of Rule of Three and Oz Gravel, to reflect on the state of cycling in Northwest Arkansas. Andy first joined us in season one to share his vision for cycling as a force for belonging in this place. This follow-up conversation explores how that vision has evolved against the backdrop of national division, local debates, and the ongoing growth of our cycling culture.

Andy speaks candidly about the challenges of polarization and how simple practices like a wave on the trail or a shared ride can counteract division. He reflects on the transition of Arkansas Rural Recreation Roads into the Ozark Foundation, the conversations sparked by the Ozark Podcast, and his perspective on the “All Bikes Welcome” mural decision in Bentonville. At the heart of it all is his conviction that cycling can bring people together across differences, creating opportunities for inclusion, bridge-building, and community repair.

This episode is both an honest reckoning with the tensions we face and an invitation to imagine how the cycling community can lead with kindness, humility, and shared humanity.

Episode webpage:  https://www.theunderview.com/episodes/the-underview-cycling-community-andy-chasteen-rule-of-three-oz-gravel

About the underview:

The underview is an exploration of the development of our Communal Theology of Place viewed through the medium of bikes, land, and people to discover community wholeness.

Website: ⁠⁠theunderview.com⁠⁠
Follow us on Instagram: ⁠⁠@underviewthe
Host: @mikerusch

Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/theunderview/message

Episode Transcript

andy chasteen. (00:02):
Social media feeds us what we want to hear.
It puts us intoour echo chambers.
And then the next thingyou know, we think
the other side sucks.
They're evil.
I hate them.
So we're getting into alittle, political culture
type conversation, but Ithink that this matters for
our cycling community, right?
I think that we need leadersthat are, forgive me, but I

(00:23):
think we need leaders thatare gonna say, bullshit.
This doesn't work here.
We're humans.
We're all the same people, Idon't care what you believe,
who you believe in, somebody'sgonna have to stand up and
say that we're gonna haveto be kind to one another.
If I'm being completelyhonest, I'm fed up with it.

(00:44):
Yeah.
I'm fed up with all of it.
I'm ready for us all to cometogether and say, listen.
Yeah, we believe differentlywe may have big differences,
but we can come togetheron a few things and
let's just start there.

mike rusch. (01:42):
We are listening to the interview and exploration
in the shaping of our place.
My name is Mike Rush, andtoday we're gonna return
to a familiar voice.
In the world of Ozark cycling,the co-founder of The Rule of
three Oz Gravel, Arkansas, ruralrecreational Roads, and all
around Ozark cycling, communityambassador Andy Chasteen.
Andy and I had a chance tospeak about a year and a

(02:02):
half ago, and he shared avision for cycling that went
beyond sport or recreation.
It was a way of connectingpeople to each other
and to this place.
Well, if you haven't noticed,a lot has happened since then.
While the cycling community innorthwest Arkansas has continued
to grow and evolve, our nationaldialogue has become well
fractured, but that fractureisn't just somewhere else.

(02:24):
That fracture point has nowmoved through our community,
and I would dare say throughthe cycling community as well,
so I wanted to sit down withAndy to have a conversation
about his thoughts on thecurrent state of the cycling
community here in northwestArkansas, the implications of
what happened as Bentonvillewrestled with the All Bikes
welcome mural controversy,and to get his thoughts on the
Ozark podcast conversationsabout cycling, to understand,

(02:46):
did that change anything?
He's also seeing the transitionof the Arkansas Rural Recreation
Program, the R3 program, tothe Ozark Foundation, and
what does he expect of that?
The thread through all of thisis that what's at stake here is
more than the future of cycling.
It's the heart and soulof Northwest Arkansas.
While the community has beentested, I wanna understand, are

(03:07):
these going to be instrumentsof belonging or will they
perpetuate further division?
Can cycling, which hastransformed our region,
also helped transform howwe relate to one another
in a time when divisionthreatens to pull us apart.
Can it be a place ofbridge building and not
an accomplice of division?
In this conversation, Andyreflects on where we are
today, and I'm gonna tellyou he doesn't hold back.

(03:29):
He shares his thoughts aboutcycling and what that reveals
about who we are and how itmight help us build bridges
across our differences.
We talk about leadershipand kindness and rural
relationships, and what ittakes for the cycling community
to live up to the messagesthat are painted on our walls,
that you belong here andthat all bikes are welcome.
All right, let's get into it.

(03:52):
I have a privilege todayof sitting back down with
my friend Andy Chasteenand sharing the table.
Andy, welcome back.
It's great to have you.
Thanks.
Good to hear back here.
Yeah, we've had a lot ofconversations about cycling
and culture and communityand I was like, I would love
to sit back down with Andyand flash forward from when
we talked probably a littleover a year ago to just sit
down and see where you're at.

(04:12):
Yeah.
There's been a lot happeningin the city of Bentonville
in northwest Arkansas.
Probably most importantly, it'salmost October in the Ozarks.
And so what I consider likealmost this little bit of
salvation in many ways, I know.
Yeah.
Of being able to, yeah.
I feel like I've been waiting solong for this kind of, I, I call
this season of Advent, right?
I'm waiting for October,so I feel like I'm about

(04:34):
to like, step into thisglorious time of year.
Yeah, I catch this up a littlebit on where you're at and
what you're thinking about.
Where have you beenspending your time lately?
What's been rollingaround in your head?

andy chasteen. (04:45):
Obviously I've been riding my bike a lot.
Yeah.
'cause that's whatkeeps me sane.
Every summer, me and Jackielove to go out in the van out
west, escape a little bit ofthe heat, go into the mountains,
ride our bikes every day,stay on public lands, not see
humans for a little while.
It's pretty fun.
It's nice.
And we've actually been outthere quite a bit this summer,

(05:06):
so we've spent a lot of Augustin Colorado riding our bikes
and man, just, just working.
And I can work, remote.
We got star starlink, starlink,

mike rusch. (05:16):
I did that this summer.
That was amazing,

andy chasteen. (05:18):
dude.
I know, like it reallychanges everything.
Used to, we've been going outin the van for a long time,
but used to, we would likenot argue, but argue a little
bit out over I can't, we can'tstay in this spot 'cause it
doesn't have self service babe.
And I can't get work done.
And she'd be like, thisis an amazing spot.
And I'm like, wait, it is,but we can't stay here.
And now we stay whereever we want 'cause I

(05:39):
can work anywhere, right?
So we can be up on, at11,000 feet somewhere.
And so that's been awesome.
It's been a nice summer.
We actually here too.
There was some ups and downs.
Yeah.
With some temps and stuff, butyeah, life's been good, man.
That's good.
I will say I'm super excitedfor October, like you said,
coming in we're finallycatching a little break in the
weather and, we got a big oldrainstorm yesterday, so the

(06:01):
trails are gonna be in niceshape over the next few days.
So yeah, man,everything's been good.

mike rusch. (06:06):
Andy, one of the things that I just,
I've appreciated, obviouslyyou've been in northwest
Arkansas for a while now.
But you love this place, right?
I do.
I really do.
I think, you have been apart of really shaping the
culture and the communityof what's happening here
in northwest Arkansas.
When we sat down last time,we talked about really, I
think this vision for cyclingthat you had, that I think
one of my takeaways was thatyou, you have this desire.

(06:27):
It feels I don't wanna putwords in your mouth, but to
be, just be rooted in thisplace and to be rooted in
community and to do what youcan to really figure out how
do we create this communitywhere people are welcome and
they feel like they belong.
And you're doing that throughcycling, which, is part of,
I, I think one of the mostbeautiful ways that I've
seen this community growand evolve in all of that.
And I'm just curious,where do you sit within

(06:50):
all of that today?
Sure, yeah.
Yeah.
Gimme a flavor of where you'reat and how you're thinking
about that these days.

andy chasteen. (06:55):
Yeah.
I, I can't remember if Idon't know if I told this.
The story, our first go around,but I'm gonna say it again.
So I moved here from aplace called Oklahoma City.
Obviously everyone knowsthat it's a much smaller
cycling community.
It's very road centric.
There's not a lot ofopportunities to get off
road for dirt and mountainbike and things like that.
You can, you gottadrive things like that.

(07:15):
So the cycling communitythere is much smaller.
But one thing that I reallyloved about that place is that
the cycling community was tight.
And when you have a smallcycling community, it's
a lot easier for peopleto be more tight knit.
Volunteer for theweeknight crits, like
things like that, right?
It's much easier tobuild a a tight knit
community when it's small.

(07:36):
But when I moved here, it's big.
There are a lot of bikeriders here, right?
And so one thing, one ofthe first things I noticed
here is it's a little bitmore compartmentalized.
There's lots of differentstyles of riders here.
You've got gravel, you'vegot a, a small kind of road
scene, but that it's here.
And then you have, andthen you have how many
genres of mountain bikers.

(07:57):
You know what I'm saying?
I think there's a newone born every day.
There's, I know.
And there's a lot, right?
And one thing I noticedthat's a little bit com
compartmentalized, and I'mnot this technical thinker,
but like through my thoughts,I'm like, how can you get
all these people together?
It's tough.
Yeah.
Like it's tough.
We're, it's a big scene,but, and again, I'm a, I
have a simple monkey brainand and my thoughts were,

(08:19):
we're like, how can wejust be friendly together?
And that's wherethe wave idea came.
And I don't know that, like myanswer to your question would be
that I've been thinking about itin new ways or has it evolved?
How long ago did we talk?
Maybe a year.
A year?
Maybe a little more.
Something like that.
I, I don't know.
Maybe it's the same.
Maybe it's a little better.
Maybe.
I don't know.

(08:39):
I really don't know.
That's a great questionto ask that I don't.
I clearly know the answer toobviously, but I do know that
some things work and that'sbringing people together in one
place, no matter what kind ofbike you ride, it doesn't matter
what kind of bike you ride.
So that works, right?
And then also the wave, right?

(09:00):
There's all these little simplethings that can certainly work,
and I'm not gonna pretend toknow all the answers, but I'm
gonna continue to just poundthat into people's brains.
And here's a great example.
If somebody, if I wave atsomebody out on the trail
and they don't wave back,I'm like, Hey, wave, you're
gonna stalk 'em a little bit.
I try not to be mean about it,but I'm like, you should if

(09:22):
somebody waves at you and youdon't wave back, come on now.
Come on.
That's right.
You're gonna stalk'em with kindness.
It's like those arelike, kill 'em with the
kindness, it's interesting.
I. You, you asked that question.
I don't know that I have theanswer to that question, but
I do know that some simplethings really do work,

mike rusch. (09:37):
I think maybe the root behind that is, no surprise
to anybody that's listening, oursociety, our culture seems to be
going in the opposite directionFor sure.
For sure.
Away from each other, right?
Yeah.
And so I think when you stepinto creating community,
especially around cycling,the, I hope, I think
the desire is to be acounterweight to that, right?
And yeah, I think, I'm curiousif you see different challenges

(09:58):
or different opportunities maybethan we have, in the, maybe
the first five years, first 10years that you've been here.
Like how are weseeing that changing?
Or do you really feel likecycling can continue to be
the space where Yeah, we havean opportunity as a community
to step into it togetherand maybe counteract or be
a counterweight to all thevoices that would tell us Yeah

(10:19):
that we shouldn't be doing

andy chasteen. (10:20):
that.
I think it can.
I think that we needleaders in our community to.
Buck that trend.
'cause that is a trendright now in our culture,
in our societies.
Even in our communitiesor whatever.
And I'll just comeout and say it.
I'm a political centrist.
Yeah.
And I'll tell you why.
Because we live in thebiggest melting pot in
the history of the world.
So if I want to get some thingsdone in life, I'm gonna have

(10:44):
to compromise with peoplewho don't believe in the same
things that I believe in.
And I think that, I thinkthat should spill over into
all works of life in yourchurch, in your community,
in your work, in people whoare not willing to compromise
on things with people.
You're never gonna getanything done in life.
And I believe that's thatway in the cycling community.

(11:05):
If you believe differentthan me, that's okay.
Let's figure outwhere we can start.
Okay, let's start somewhere.
You and I are both humans.
Okay?
There's a start, right?
We're both dudes.
Okay.
There's another one.
We're, we bothlove to ride bikes.
Okay.
There's another one.
So you come, you just keepgoing and you build this
consensus until you findthat spot where you disagree.

(11:25):
And then you're like, okay,we, where can we figure
out how to and I, listen,I'm rambling at this point.
No, keep going.
But I really I just I thinkthat we have to, our culture
has and a lot of this, itreally is social media.
Social media feeds uswhat we want to hear.
It puts us intoour echo chambers.
And then the next thingyou know, we think

(11:46):
the other side sucks.
They're evil.
I hate them.
And were we like thatbefore social media?
I don't remember that.
Maybe some were, but I don'tthink most people were.
So we're getting into a little,like a political culture type
conversation, but I thinkthat this matters for our
cycling community, right?
I think that we need leadersthat are, forgive me, but I

(12:09):
think we need leaders thatare gonna say, bullshit.
This doesn't work here.
We're humans.
We're all the same people, Idon't care what you believe,
who you believe in somebody'sgonna have to stand up and
say that we're gonna haveto be kind to one another.
And I'm jumping rightin here, but let's go.

(12:30):
But I I'm if I'm beingcompletely honest,
I'm fed up with it.
Yeah.
I'm fed up with all of it.
I'm ready for us all to cometogether and say, listen.
Yeah, we believe differentlywe may have big differences,
but we can come togetheron a few things and
let's just start there.
Let's start there.
And, but I think thatyou can overcome that in,
you know, in a workplace.

(12:52):
Hell, we can overcome thatin the political sphere.
If we can have someleaders who will stand up
and say, this is enough.
This is enough.
It's enough of this.
I thought about the Irode in from the house.
It's like a, on my regularbike, usually a e-bike.
But it's a little bit longerwhen I ride on the regular bike.
And I was thinking aboutthis when I came in, I was
like, do I really wannatalk about these things?

(13:12):
'cause sometimes this getspeople fired up, right?
Yeah.
P politics reallygets people fired up.
And I'm like, you know what?
I don't care.
I don't care.
We're gonna talk about this.
And people may not like to hear,they may not like to hear what
I'm saying, but we're gonnahave to say, enough is enough.
I don't hate you.
I don't hate anyonefor what they believe.
Un unless it's like.
Evil.

(13:32):
That's a, that's, that'sa different thing.
Evil is evil, right?
But man, just because webelieve in a different tax
rate or or whether or not,listen even very polarizing
topics like let's say abortion.
Yeah.
We can still respect each otherfor believing different things.
Can we not?
Yeah, I think we can.
Okay.

(13:53):
And I think that goes forthe cycling community too.
Yeah.
Okay.
So let's distill it downto that and we can start
there and I just feel likewe can come together on, on
things that we all agree on.
And there's a lot of thingsthat we agree on before we start
getting into those things thatwe don't, I don't know, man.
I'm fed up.
I'm sorry.

(14:13):
I wanna see people happyand and coexisting together
in a way that actuallybrings fulfillment to us.
Like I'm just I wanna see that.
And I think we can do that here.
I think we can, I think we,it could be done anywhere,
but I think we can certainlydo it here if we just
have some people who standup and say, this is it.
Come on, let's come together.
And I know that sounds,maybe it's more complicated

(14:35):
than that, but also maybeit's not, I don't know.
I don't know.

mike rusch. (14:43):
I'll let you just keep going because at this point
I'm gonna ask her to sign thepetition to get you signed up
for city council or something.
But

andy chasteen. (14:49):
it's political grandstanding.
I'm sorry.
And I hate to seecur keep cursing.
My mom and dad are gonna belike, why do you have to curse?
Stop the politicalgrandstanding.
Stop attacking the pe youreven your political opponents.
Let's stop attacking them.
And if you want to run againstsomeone else who disagrees
with you, don't go after them.

(15:10):
Say, this is what Iwill do for you or not
for you in differently.
I just, we're in thiswe're in this weird realm
of if I disagree withsomebody, I'm attacking
them, I'm going after them.
Instead of Hey, maybe Ishould sit down in private
with this person and have aconversation with them and
find some common ground.
And then we don't have toattack each other in public.

(15:32):
And then we, since we'renot attacking each other in
public, then the people whoare on this side and this
side, they're also not goingto attack each other in public.
It's leadership.
It's leadership, right?
Because we, I as a citizen,I'm just a citizen.
That's all I am.
But if I'm a citizen and Isee, let's just say I see the

(15:55):
political person that maybeI ag agree with attacking
their political opponent.
What am I gonna do?
I'm gonna follow that, right?
I'm gonna if I see it,we're creatures of, you
are what you eat, right?
You are who who you hangout with, who you follow.
Yeah.
Back to cycling.
Sorry.

mike rusch. (16:13):
I think part of this conversation, sorry.
Gosh dang, we get intopolitics pretty quickly too.
Do not apologize.
I think part of this is, Imean, you know, you've been
paying attention to what's beenhappening in the city yeah.
Around some of the controversythat we've had to deal with the
mural and all bikes welcome.
And so like, it's, it's relevant

andy chasteen. (16:30):
it just immediately devolves.
Yeah.
And the, you can't have aintelligent conversation about
anything because it devolves toname calling and you're evil.
No, you're evil.
No, you're evil.
No, you're evil.
No.
Let's sit down and talkabout it, and if it happens
to, if it has to be donewith no microphone and no
cameras, then that's probablyhow it should be done.

(16:53):
Because oftentimes thesemicrophones and these
cameras is when youstart grandstanding Yeah.
For your people,

mike rusch. (17:00):
and I think part of this is not to rehash the
mural conversation, but Ithink there's some things that
you're speaking to directlythat were really, to me, they
were revealed around maybe thedivision that I didn't think
was as deep as maybe it was.
Sure.
Yeah.
And I think, I walk awayfrom this past season
saying, what do we need todo as a community to build

(17:21):
bridges towards each other?
'cause it feels like everytime I turn around they're like
being torn apart or torn down.
And I believe, strongly inthe cycling community is
as a force in our communitythat is doing a lot of
good and can build bridges.
And I think this is part of thequestion that I have is where
we stand now on, and I'll just,I'll pick on the mural, but

(17:42):
Sure.
You could pick on any issue,like you said before, like
where, how do we, like, wheredo we start to think about if
we're gonna build a community?
Where everybody can belongand it's going to be centric
around art and it's going tobe centric around cycling.
And all and experiencesand building community.
Yeah.
How do we reengage?

(18:03):
How do we do that?
Yeah.
In a way that I think comesback to exactly what you're
talking about, which is seeingthe humanity in people first.

andy chasteen. (18:09):
Yeah.
I'll start with the I'llback up just for a second
on the mural topic.
I don't know muchabout the mural topic.
You and I talked about this likea week ago or whatever, right?
We were in Colorado this wholetime this thing was going on.
So I didn't, I didn'tknow what was going on.
I didn't really have a I havea peripheral knowledge of what
happened, but and maybe it'sgood that I don't know what
happened because I can just,I can walk in the door and

(18:30):
say, listen, why didn't bothsides compromise on something?
Yeah.
Keep the mural up ina way I, listen again,
this is my ignorancetalking 'cause I don't.
I don't, I didn't go watchthe city council video.
I haven't seen it.
But like in my simple brain,I'm like, okay one side doesn't
want it, the other side does.
How can we come to some sortof compromise to keep it there?

(18:52):
Because it is abeautiful, message.
All bikers welcome.
That sounds pretty good to me.
You know what I mean?
All people welcome.
Everybody's welcome.
That sounds like agood message to me.
Now again I don'tknow the specifics.
I know a few, but I don't,I also don't wanna speak
to it 'cause I don'twanna speak wrongly here.
But listen, there's gonnahave to be compromise on

(19:13):
both sides of every coin.
Yeah.
In every community,in every church.
I keep saying church.
I grew up in church.
Yeah.
Um, In every workplace.
In every facet of life.
Yeah.
Whether you live on acommune or you live in LA.
There's compromise, right?
And I just feel like noone's willing to compromise
in today's day and age.

(19:34):
We've picked our sides, we'vedrawn the line in the sand,
we have our red lines, andthose aren't to be crossed.
And I just feel I knowthere's a there's two
parts to this question.
I've already forgotthe second part.
You have to remind me.
I'll get you.
But I think that this iswhat I was taught as a
child, and I'm not perfect.
I I lose this sometimesin my day-today, life.
Okay.
But let's just say I'm sittingacross from you, Mike, and

(19:58):
you disagree with me onsomething, let's say it,
let's say it's a moral matter.
Let's just say it'sa moral matter.
I

mike rusch. (20:04):
would say you probably shouldn't be running
a 42 on your front chain ring.
So if you wanna start there,we can devolve into whatever
that conversation should

andy chasteen. (20:11):
be.
Let's say that's an existentexistential question right now.

mike rusch. (20:15):
Do you believe in Exactly, yeah.
Ability of A 42.
Yes.
I know.
Tea chain ring topower your life.

andy chasteen. (20:22):
That is funny.
I do have a 42.
I know you do.
Sometimes it's too big.

mike rusch. (20:25):
I have a 42 also.
It's too much for me.
It's much, but keepgoing too much.

andy chasteen. (20:27):
Yeah, for sure.
Especially out inthe Newton County.
Yeah.
But here is my moral compass.
Okay.
And it's very simple.
If you disagree with me, Mike,and you disagree with me on
a very moral issue, right?
And let's just saythat I believe that
you are morally wrong.
Guess what?
I still love you.
Yeah.
Simple.
That's it.
I still love you as a human.

(20:49):
I still respect you.
And even your viewpoint,even if I disagree with
it, like vehemently.
And I think that, I think thatif that's written on everybody's
hearts or on your dang mirror inthe morning or whatever, right?
My wife Jackie and I, weargue all the time we're
both super type A, right?
Yeah.
I'm very Type A. She's maybeeven more Type A. But the

(21:12):
funny thing is even if we'rein this really difficult
argument about something likeMay, we may not be able to
come to terms on this one.
The second one of ussays, you know what?
I still love you.
I still love you.
This makes me wantto cry almost.
It changes everything, dude.
You know what I'm saying?
And why can't we dothat with everyone else?
I just this is bothering me.

mike rusch. (21:33):
Yeah.

andy chasteen. (21:33):
That our community and our country
is falling into this trapof hating each other.
It's gotta stop at some point,it's gonna have to stop, yeah.
So what was the second part?

mike rusch. (21:47):
We were supposed to talk about some cycl cycling.
My, oh gosh, let's get to that.
Oh, gosh, I don't know.
This is heavy.
I don't want No, but it's,I think, is, for me, dude,
is, this is the core of it.
I think the question that Ihave been trying to answer or
exploring, for lack of betterwords has been how, what does
it look like to, for us toreconnect to our place in a
way that, that we feel like webelong and we have this vested

(22:08):
interest in making sure thatthe things that we do and the
way we make decisions, thatthey're for this place and
that they're for other people.

andy chasteen. (22:17):
Yeah.

mike rusch. (22:17):
And and you are, you're clearly there, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think it's we see this, Ialways say this like I think in
some ways we want to have these,really in depth conversations.
We want to have some end all,be all solution for solving
all the world's problems.
We want it to fit into the modelthat we feel comfortable with.
Yeah.
And I think at the end of theday it's a lot of what I've

(22:38):
always loved and respectedabout the work that you're
doing is that it really ispretty simple and that it
is to draw it back to theseplaces of what does it look
like to wave to other people.
Yeah.
Across what is an assumed dividebetween maybe a rural and urban
community or agrarian society.
And I think for me, it'sfound in the simplicity and I,
frankly, I don't think we cantalk about that enough, and

(23:00):
I, we can't be reminded of it.
I Enough either.
Yeah.
I,

andy chasteen. (23:05):
yeah.
These are, these really are.
I didn't mean to come in hereand talk about, I thought
we were gonna talk aboutcycling for a long time.
We, we'll talk about, I dohave some and we're going
to practical questions.
I dunno how many peoplehave turned off yet.
But but that's okay.
I think these thingsneed to, I think these
conversations need to happen.
And listen, we don't haveto agree on everything.
Like you said, weshouldn't, we're humans.
Like when I just told you I'ma political centrist I will

(23:27):
vote for whoever I think isthe right person for that job.
I don't give a crap whattheir, what that, what
their, rd I could care less.
Do not put me in a box.
I'm not in a, you willnever put me in a box.
I'm not in a box.
I'll fight outta that box.

mike rusch. (23:43):
Yeah.

andy chasteen. (23:43):
But but you guess what?
If you vote different than me?
That's okay.
I don't care about that either.
I care that you and Ihave some common beliefs.
We both love to ride bikes.
I believe in freedom ofspeech 'cause I get to sit
here and talk to you abouthow I feel that repercussion
from my government.
Okay.
And so these are likethese little common beliefs

(24:06):
that I think almost allof us can agree on here.
Let's start there.
Yeah.
How about that?

mike rusch. (24:13):
I mean, maybe let's get practical for a minute.
Yeah.
Because I think as we talkedabout, there's some things
that do work itself out in theeveryday coming and going of who
we are as people in a community.
And yeah, I think one ofthose things that I've always,
I'm a huge fan of Arkansas,rural recreational roads.
Yeah, for sure.
That you were at the heartand the center of helping
to create and get started.
And I'm a firm believer inthe ability of that to really

(24:36):
expose people to our communityconnected with the land.
But I know some of the thingsthat you've had to deal
with early on in that isjust some friction between
for sure.
People who look at eachother, that maybe they
look at each other andyou look very different.
Yeah.
And you've hadsome success there.
And I think it's carriedinto the culture making.
Especially in gravel cyclingof, I know when we go out

(24:56):
with our group, everybodywithout hesitation the wave
that you've asked people toadopt has been adopted, right?
And I think it's, I thinkwith, with Arkansas R3,
now that's moving overinto the Ozark Foundation.
Yes.
And I'm, I am curious,what should we expect?
What are your expectations?
As you see this move into anew organizational structure,
Mike Spivey and the group atOzark Foundation's phenomenal.

(25:18):
Yeah.
I'm curious, if you couldgive us a little behind the
scenes on like how do yousee that as a continued Yeah.
Tool.
Sure.
Or what are yourexpectations for that?

andy chasteen. (25:27):
I I guess maybe we start with the, maybe the
reason it moved over there.
The Ozark Foundation is adialed organization Yeah.
With Mike and Brandonand all that crew and
Julie and the whole crew.
I don't wanna leave anybody out.
They are dialed in what they do.
They're very good atwhat they do, and they
have more resources.
And that was really the decidingfactor and let's let them
pick up the carry the torch.

(25:48):
They'll be able to expand.
They'll be able to runit a little bit better.
They're gonna bringon Bobby Finster.
Oh, dude.

mike rusch. (25:53):
Amazing human.
Yes.
Amazing human.
We need to get himin here and talk.

andy chasteen. (25:56):
Yes.
And listen.
One of the cool things Ilike about Bobby, Bobby
is he's great with people.
A good bike rider, he's allthese things, but guess what?
He's from rural Arkansas.
And so he's got this story andhe's got this ability to relate
to people who I think that weneed to be more in tune with.
Yeah.
And so it seemedlike a no-brainer.

(26:17):
Whoever over therebrought on Bobby was.
Yeah.
It was a killer move.
And I think they did anamazing job on bringing him in.
And so I think they'llbe able to expand.
I think someone up inMichigan is doing the rural.
I've heard about that thing.
Yeah, absolutely.
So it, it iscatching some steam.
And so that was the reasonwhy I think it was let's let
them carry this torch, andquite honestly, I don't know.

(26:40):
I personally don't know theinner workings of what's
the future look like?
But I'm interested in, I'minterested to hear, I hope that
they I really would love to seethem pick up these these rides
out to farms and these where wecan have these like face-to-face
conversations with the peopleout that live out on these
roads that we're riding on.
Because I think that's reallywhere the difference is made.
That, that one awesomeone that we did with Wes.

(27:02):
Oh, amazing.
I still talk to Wes,every week almost.
We text all the time.

mike rusch. (27:06):
I know and I'm always like watching his fix
it or keep farming videos too.
Isn't that amazing?
I don't know how heknows how to do what he
does, but it's amazing.

andy chasteen. (27:13):
See, that's where social media is great.

mike rusch. (27:15):
Yeah.

andy chasteen. (27:15):
Obviously social media sucks in a
lot of ways, but like Wes.
Wes Evans', should I fixit or give up farming?
Yeah, it's great.
It's great, dude.

mike rusch. (27:25):
It restores my faith in our humanity.

andy chasteen. (27:27):
Right?
And dude, he'll text meshop Shopify, Spotify
playlist that he'slistening to while he's out.
B bailing hay doing the work.
Dude, we're budsman.
I love that guy.
He's the best.
And and I just, Ithink people like that.
Listen, I was close-mindedand he was close-minded
before we became buddies.
Think about that.

(27:48):
How many more times canwe can we make that happen
over the next few years?
I just, I think that's whereArthur should go, and I hope
that's where it's going.
I think it probably is.
Yeah.

mike rusch. (27:55):
Yeah.
I am, I'm biased.
I love it.
And I do feel like I, where westarted this conversation with
the divides in our community.
Yeah.
If that's.
That's not the only divide.
And I'm not saying it surehas to be a huge divide,
but if there is distancebetween community members
or misunderstandings orwe can't slow down enough
to at least listen to eachother I'm a huge believer
in what our three can Yeah.

(28:15):
Can make possible from creatingspaces where yeah, maybe we
can start our conversationsfrom a different place.
And the work is there.
We were on a ride earlier thisweek and you know, we had an
apple thrown at us, right?
Yeah.
Or one of our, not to me,but to one of the person
that was riding with us.
Yeah.
And like an apple at40 miles an hour is not
an insignificant thing.
So there's, we are justrunning so hot as a community.

(28:38):
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, for sure.
That for some reason,like I've had more people
yelling at me on a bike.
I haven't done anything wrong.
Yeah.
And I feel like if this can,that wave and that approach
can take the temperature down.
I think the cycling communityhas a real opportunity to
lead in this space, frankly.
Yeah.
And yeah.
So I think R3 can be agreat tool in all of that.

andy chasteen. (28:57):
I think that, and if I could add to that
it's interesting you say that.
I'm gonna give youtwo sides of this.
The first side is I'mgoing to I'm gonna add
on to what you just said.
I've been flippedoff a lot lately.
Yeah, I have.
And what's interesting isthe two times that I've been
flipped off most recently hasbeen by cars coming towards me.
Yeah.
And they're flipping meoff in their front window.

(29:18):
It's just the default as, andI'm literally just minding my
business, riding down the road.
I'll start with that.
You got anybody's way,you, I'll start with that.
Yeah.
The third time I got flippedoff was on Ford Springs Road.
And this is, I'm not proud of,but I want to say how I acted.
Yeah.
Because this ishow we should not,
so I got flipped off FordSprings Road and this was,
I was with a couple buddiesand this was maybe a month

(29:40):
ago, and they flipped meoff as they were passing.
So they passed by us.
And and so I, I figured Iwould I was having a bad day.
Yeah.
And I'm embarrassed to saythis, so I sped up Yeah.
And I followed 'em to theintersection of Forest Springs
and McNally, and they gotstuck behind a couple cars.
Yeah.

mike rusch. (30:00):
They don't realize how fast you're going.
And so

andy chasteen. (30:01):
Andy Chasteen pulled up next to
'em and I knocked on theirwindow and I asked them
to roll their window down.
And it was a man and his wife,I don't know, maybe in their
fifties, something like that.
And they rolled their windowdown and I proceeded to verbally
abuse them for doing that.
Yeah.
Does that make you feel goodflipping someone off like that?

(30:23):
Do you like that?
Does that make you feel good?
Yeah.
Call 'em a few choice names.
And can I just say that isnot what we should do, right?
Yeah.
I'm guilty of the same thing.
Listen I am.
That really doeshappen rarely with me.
I'm not a confrontation.
I actually hateconfrontation, right?
I'm not that kind of human.
But for some reason thatday I just felt the need to

(30:44):
do it and I shouldn't have.
And eventually they justpulled off because they
had their way to go.
They never said oneword back to me.
But guess what happened?
They left thinking thatwe're all assholes.
Yeah, because I was to 'em.
When I should have reallyjust waived and that's it.
I should have just waived,

mike rusch. (31:02):
let

andy chasteen. (31:02):
it be.
I should have let it be.
And I don't want anybodyto think I'm a perfect
human 'cause I'm not.
I do that from time totime, but that sometimes is
why we get flipped off isbecause of what I just did.
Yeah.
And I think that is, weall should be, some people
are a little bit morehotheads than others.
Yeah.
I get that.

mike rusch. (31:20):
I go from zero to 60 real quick.

andy chasteen. (31:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so I think that's anembarrassing story for me
to tell, because that'snot who I am as a human.
But sometimes what wedo is not who we are.
For all of us at times.
But I think I wanted, Ijust wanted to tell that
story because I speak this,I preach this, Hey, wave it
ever be kind all the time.
Listen, I'm not perfect.
Okay.
I fall into that as well.

(31:44):
But what I did, thosetwo people will look
at cyclists differentlyforever because of me.

mike rusch. (31:51):
Yeah.

andy chasteen. (31:52):
When I could have just waved at 'em and
they probably would've lookeddifferently because of that.
Now let me tell youthe other story.
Yeah.
I don't

mike rusch. (32:00):
know if it's a story.
Keep going.
Yeah.
Tell that story.

andy chasteen. (32:03):
So I'm gonna redeem, I'm gonna
try to redeem myself here.
Another, but it was probablyabout a year ago, me and
my buddy Pat Zimmerman,everybody knows Pat Zimmerman,
it's legend around here.
Yeah.
We were out I wouldsay northeast of gr
maybe a year ago.
Just riding gravel roads.
And we were coming up on this,we came up on this like red
I don't know, it was like alittle, like a country car,

(32:23):
they were coming our direction.
And you could see in thedistance as we were maybe like
a football field away from 'em,they pulled off onto the side
of the road and I was like,okay, what's gonna happen here?
Are they like pulling off tolet us pass and they don't
wanna dust us, whatever.
And so we get closer and aswe get closer, I wave at 'em,
and then we just keep going.
But the second we get likeabout even with them I hear

(32:45):
this voice, y'all want a beer?
And I wasn't planningon stopping, but Pat
Zimmerman's tires skid.
Like he hits his brakesand you could hear the
gravel just skidding.
And I'm like I guesswe're stopping.
And and so we stop andcome to find out, I hope
there's no law enforcement.

(33:06):
No, listen to this because,yeah, because these guys were
doing what, oftentimes peopledo on these way back road,
gravel roads, they got a beerin their hand and they're
just out for a little slowroll drive, so anyways, we
stop and these guys were like,Hey, you guys want a beer?
And and I didn't want a beerat the time but Pat loves
beer and so we said yes.

(33:29):
So they pull out a coupleBush lights, and we proceed
to sit there and talkwith these guys for I kid
you not 45 minutes or so.
And one of them had justgotten outta prison.
He had prison tattoosall down his, he.
All down his arms onhis neck, everything.
But and they were somewhatblowhards and like hey, we like

(33:50):
to float the Elk River, butalways, I'm always getting in
a fight and beating somebodyup 'cause they're, people
don't know how to act outthere anyways, so we talk about
all these different things.
Nothing about bikes, right?
We don't talk aboutbikes the entire time.
And 30, 45 minutes inwe've drank our bush lights
and it's time to get,it's time to, to move on.

(34:10):
And I'll never forget this, Idon't remember exactly what we
talked about that whole time.
Yeah.
But this, I do remember aswe're pulling off, the driver
goes, man, we usually dust guyslike you out here, but I don't
think I'm gonna do that anymore.
You guys are pretty cool.
Yeah.
And I just thought tomyself, listen, it's
face-to-face conversations.
Talking to people, treatingthem with respect, no matter who

(34:33):
they are, where they come from,what socioeconomic background
they have, doesn't matter.
And that was a good lessonfor me, for waving at people
wherever you are, taking thetime to to talk to people where
they're at in their place,maybe even in their life, right?
And so I hope that redeemsme a little bit for that,

(34:55):
for the first story.
But, and one other thing Ialways tell my daughter's
15 years old, and I'm tryingto guide her in a way to
becoming a really goodhuman being as an adult.
And I tell her this constantlyagain, it's simple truth, right?
The simple truth is when youcome into a conversation with
someone, and I tell her this,you always wanna leave that

(35:16):
person feeling better at theend of that conversation, then
you found them and listen, isthere a better way to live life?
I don't think so.
No.
And I probably toldher that hundreds of
times over the years.
And I didn't leave those peoplein a better place than I found
them, the people that flippedme off on Ford Springs Road,

(35:38):
but I did with these gentlemen.
And those are twocontrasting, interactions.
And I think the answeris clear on which one is
the correct one, right?
Unless you don't drink beer,then don't drink the beer.
Yeah.
What I

mike rusch. (35:50):
hear.
Yeah.
What I hear though is, hey,maybe we can move past what
our outer appearances may formthose opinions and feel like I
heard someone say, with socialmedia these days I can go see
your social media feed andI can know everything about
you except I don't know you.
I know, right?
And so you're startingthose conversations
at a different place.

(36:11):
Yeah.
With a different maybelens and different filter.
And I think it'sa great reminder.
I love that story because it'sa reminder and an encouragement
that, man, if we can just slowdown a little bit that yeah,
there are opportunities toreally build some bridges and
who knows where those will go.
Maybe on one side you'vegot, Hey, I wish I could
have a do-over on that.
But on the other side you'relike, man you probably, you,

(36:31):
who knows what confrontationhas been, avoided for the
future for those guys.
Maybe that they're not gonnadust the next people and lowers
the temperature a bit andwhere we're at as a culture?

andy chasteen. (36:42):
I think so, and again, listen, I'm
not sitting here pretendingto know the answers to
everything I 'cause I don't.
And most of my answers arejust super simple, right?
I'm not this complexthinker, I'm just not.
But there are a few simplethings that we can put into
use in our day-to-day livesthat will make other people's
lives around us better.
Yeah.
And what, how else can youmake change in the world?

(37:04):
Especially if you'rejust one human?
Unless you're, and unless youbecome a part of this big change
group that's like changing theworld, on this large scale.
But, most people aren't, mostpeople can change the world one
person at a time in one-on-oneinteractions every day.
And why can't we all do that?

mike rusch. (37:23):
Yeah, I think it is as simple as that.
We had an opportunity you andI talked after I had a chance
to sit down with Kyle Yeah.
And Kyle at the Ozarkpodcast where we had, they
had a couple conversationsabout cycling and the Ozarks
and maybe these dividesthat we're talking about.
They sat down with afriend of mine, Dr. Jared
Phillips, who's a historian,also leader of the Ozark

(37:44):
Studies Association farmer.
Living in the agrarian world.
But those conversationshave been hard.
I've had a chance to sit withinthose spaces a little bit.
Yeah.
And to hear some of wherethey're coming from.
But I think for a lot of peoplein the cycling community, I let
my whole cycling group listen.
I asked them to yeah.
To listen to theseconversations and there's
a really mixed bag Sure.
Of reactions and listeningto some of those.

(38:06):
And Yeah.
I'm curious what do you takeaway from that, or where do
you think that starting pointis, or what does that, what
are the implications for someof those conversations for us?

andy chasteen. (38:13):
Yeah.
I, I have to be honest,when I listened to the pod
with Jared Phillips Yeah Iwas, I'm probably not proud.
I was offended, I was quiteoffended by what he said.
And some of it is just becauseI know the cycling community
and I don't believe that hisversion of it was correct.
You know what I'm saying?

(38:33):
And so there was likethis immediate like
defensiveness Sure.
Obviously that's like kindof human nature, right?
And then and then, if I'm beinghonest, the two gentlemen that
do the Ozark podcast, yeah.
I love that podcast.
I actually listened to alot of the hunting ones.
I think that pot is awesome.
But I, I thought to myself.
Screw these guys.
They don't know the story.
They don't know us.
They, they're close-minded.

(38:55):
And that was my really,my truly initial reaction.
Don't think you'realone in that.
And I'm not proud to say that,but I, it was my, I had a text
thread going with some buddys ofmine, and I was like, man, this
is why we get hit with apples.
You know what I'm saying?
By cars passing and orflipped off or whatever.
And and then I had the ability,or I had the opportunity to

(39:16):
listen to your pod with them.
And phenomenal job, by the way.
That's a overly kind.
You really.
You did a really good job ofallowing these guys to think
and understand the, the otherside of the coin and see some
nuance in the subject, right?
Are we perfect?
No, we are not perfect.
Cyclists are not perfect.
We obviously have our issueswhere we can do better of,

(39:39):
obviously, but I think thatyou did an amazing job and
I also really appreciatedthose two being understanding
and being willing to seethe other side of it.
Yeah.
I see those two gentlemencompletely different now.
Yeah.
Whereas I was offended,oh, they're close-minded.
They're, they hate us.
After that podcast I waslike, I respect those guys

(40:01):
for listening to another side.
Being willing to at leastchange their point of view
in a way, or at least beingable to understand the other
side of the conversation.
And I can't tell you how muchbetter I feel having listened
to that second podcast knowingthat at least they got to
listen to another side ofthe story and to understand
where we're coming from.

(40:22):
A cyclists.
Yeah.
And listen, I understand,I, I understand their
conversation and theirarguments around conservation
and things like that.
I get it.
And I've spent some, a lotof time understanding and
trying to think, okay, wherecould cyclists contribute
on the conservation side?
And I don't have theanswer to that yet.
Yeah.
I just don't.
But I will say I left thatpodcast with you, with them

(40:45):
thinking okay, progress.
Progress was made, and that'sall we can ask for, right?
And then we make moreprogress later, and maybe
the R three helps withthis, a hundred percent.
Maybe that comes in, maybethere's a link there, right?
Maybe we get Bobbyon there eventually.
I know they're movinginto the hunting season.
I get that.
I totally get it.
And we can pause on that, butI think there's a way in all

(41:08):
ways not just this one, weshould be able to coexist.

mike rusch. (41:12):
And I would say thanks.
And credit to Kyle and Kylefor, they didn't have to, they
didn't have to, they right,they didn't have open that up.
But they care deeplyabout this place.
They care deeplyabout the Ozarks.
You can tell they do.
They care deeply about people.
And I think it's a goodopportunity to step into these
conversations that we're talkingto lower the temperature.
Yeah.
And yeah, we may not havestarted in a great spot, but

(41:33):
if we can walk away seeing eachother that maybe not everybody's
the way that I think they are.
I think this is where the workthat you've been leading, I
think has been really helpful.
I, I mean, I walked throughthose conversations thinking,
gosh, can we make it simpleabout how do we acknowledge
and see the humanity andeveryone, we talked about
the wave a little bit, butI think those are the spaces
that we have an opportunityas a cycling community to

(41:56):
build bridges within othercommunities and to lower those
temperatures in a way that canhelp us build this community
in this space of the Ozarks.
Maybe in a way that, that we,I don't know, maybe that's
not happening as much aswe would like it to happen.
And I do think, like thinkingabout our Arkansas R3.
Great opportunities.
We should all sit down in aroom together and yeah, we

(42:17):
should have conversationsabout what does it look
like to build relationships.
And people like Wes orJared or Kyle's coming
in and sitting down.
Yeah.
I guarantee you, if everybodywas sitting at a table
together, we would walkaway with everyone hugging,
patting everybody on the back.
For sure.
And so I think it's, thesespaces just don't exist
very often, our community.
And so I think it's, Ithink it's imperative.

(42:39):
I, and I feel like Andy, you'reone who does this all the time,
but I'll sit at a table withanybody and so if we can start
that from a different place,then I think there's, yeah,
I think there's good thingsthat are gonna come out of it.

andy chasteen. (42:51):
I just still think that let's say that we
never make any progress withthis, let's say this tension
between let's say hunters orthe, the folks who live out
on the, the gravel roads thatwe ride and us, let's just say
that we never make meaningful.
We can't come to this agreementon whatever the topic is.

(43:13):
We can still agree that we'reall humans and we all want the
best life that we can have andthat we want the best life that
other people can have as well.
I think that is enough.
That's the thing.
That's enough.
Even if we disagree on otherthings, listen, I think

(43:34):
there is progress to be made,but even if there's not, I
think that is enough, right?
Yeah, it's enough.
And that's what I'm trying,that's what I really
wish people could like,just get in their brains.
We're not gonna agree oneverything and there's gonna
be some important thingsthat we don't agree on.
But that's a, that's okay.
Yeah.

mike rusch. (43:51):
It's not an excuse to let it devolve and to,

andy chasteen. (43:54):
it's not.
It's not.
And I think the progressshould always be like, we
should strive for progress.
And I think that we shouldreally go after this with
the R3 through thing.
That's not what I'm saying.
My, what I am saying is evenif we don't make progress on
it, like I think that's, it'senough that we're all human

(44:16):
beings and that's enough.
Yeah.
We don't have tohate each other.
We don't have to, I don'thave to yell in someone's
car window at 'em.
And they don't also don'thave to flip me off, thanks.

mike rusch. (44:26):
And I would say too, you have a place down
in Newton County and you'reriding down there a lot.
You're creatingevents down there.
So you are a part of thatcommunity in many ways too.
And

andy chasteen. (44:33):
I've met a lot of great people on
those roads out there, man.
Like I've stopped andhad conversations with.
I had this amazing I,again, I don't know how
long we want this podcastto go, but I met this guy.
Keep going.
I met this guy up onI don't know that I
want, yeah, I'll say it.
I met this guy that ownedsome land up on Keys
Gap in Newton County.
And he was out on the roadand I was, and he, I think

(44:54):
he was just, he stopped andI think I was on the side
of the road on my bike,stopped for some reason.
He stopped and said hello, andI was like, we got to talking.
And he's yeah, man.
I moved here from NewYork 50 years ago.
50 years.
Yes.
And and I was like, man.
You've been here for a longtime, and he's yeah, they still
don't consider me a local,which I thought was so great.

(45:15):
Yeah.
There is that, you'vetalked a lot about the
history of Arkansas and likeI've learned about a lot
about it in Newton County.
You are not considered a localunless I think if you, unless
you have like grandparentsin the cemetery there, or
maybe great grandparents,don't quote me on that.
I'm just saying that ishow ingrained historical,

(45:36):
history and culture is there.
Like it's really interestingto learn these things from
people, and this was alsoa really crazy, obviously
polarizing topic, and I don'tmean to go all over the place,
but I'm, it's funny that I'mlearning all these cool things
about people that I didn'tknow anything about, right?
And I think you, and I mayhave talked about this before,
but back when they weretalking about the designation

(45:56):
of the Buffalo, right?
You, national Park or whatever.
And there was the uproar,the people didn't want it.
And the argument I thinkone of the arguments was
like you're, your propertyvalues are gonna raise.
And I heard so many locals outthere saying, I don't care.
I'm passing this down tomy family for generations.
We don't want our propertyvalues to increase 'cause

(46:16):
that's more property taxes.
And I thought, duh,I'm such an idiot.
I would've never thought ofthat because I live in the
city and I want my property,to, to increase in value.
And it's like we don'tunderstand other people's
point of views if we're notin their shoes, and we will
never understand their pointof views unless we ask.
That's right.

(46:37):
So like on a, almost on adaily basis, I feel like a
dumb because I wasn't thinkingfrom the point of view of
someone else and maybe weshould all be that way.
Yeah.

mike rusch. (46:47):
I walk into those spaces with a posture
of learning to me, what doesit mean to belong to a place?
Yeah.
There's people in thisregion and the Ozarks
that can really havesomething to say about this.
Yeah.
And I think when we careabout this place as much
as so many people do,it changes our posture.
When we're out on a bike ridingthrough these communities,
we see people differently.

(47:07):
They mattered.
Yeah, that's right.
In a way that maybe wedon't give them credit for.
We're not there to fix anything.
And I think that was the spiritof the conversation, the Ozark
podcast is, and I, we takethat posture of seeing each
other and what we have to learnfrom others in a way that,
Yeah, can be really helpful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For sure.
Yeah.
I think we could sit hereand I honestly believe we
can't hear this enough.

(47:28):
We can't talk about this enoughof seeing each other yeah.
As human beings first.
And so I really appreciatethat, and I think the way
that works itself into thecycling community, really.
Yeah.
There's some opportunitiesthere that I think can really
be a healing place and a placeof unity for our community.
And so I wanna lean intothat as much as I can.
Tell me tell me what you gotgoing on for this next year.
I know you have thismountain bike race that

(47:49):
you call Rule of Three.
I think is what it is.
But yeah what that continuesto be an incredible success.
I know you've got the DeathMarch of Newton County,
is that what it's called?
The brutality?
Yeah.
I'm just messing with you.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Tell me what is, yeah.
What's the next year look for?
What are you looking forward to?

andy chasteen. (48:04):
So our Lauren and I, yeah.
I always like to sayrule of three doesn't
happen without Lauren.
We do.
We do.
And that's true.
She does all the work.
Rule of three, again,I'm a broken record.
I say this all the time,but rule of three is
really a hobby of ours.
Or a hobby of mine.
I have a real job, obviously.
Yeah.
Rule of three is a hobby, butit I used to put on, I used

(48:25):
to put on a climbing event.
I'm still in, I'mstill involved with it.
It's one of my bestbuds runs it now.
And these events that I've puton, I've always, I'm always
biting off more than I can chew.
But they really are for me.
They're like this cool timeto bring loads of people into
one place together, right?

(48:46):
For this feel good, happy,good, maybe this is your chance
to escape your stressful lifefor a week or whatever, right?
And so that has always beenthe, for me, the impotence
of putting these events on.
We have rule of 3 99coming up and yeah, but see
that's not till February.
So that's a ways off.
But rule of 3 99 is this reallycool we call it a free event.

(49:08):
It's free ish.
It's it costs you $43 to signup and if you show up on the
day, you get your $40 refundedand the three, whatever, $3
and 99 cents that's the bikereg fee that we have to pay.
So basically we take$0 and any money.
So we give you your $40back when you show up.

(49:31):
But if you don't show up,we take that $40 and we give
it to Peddle it Forward.
Yeah.
Which is great.
And so it's like this funday where we send you out on
these, a couple of heinous,obviously rule of three routes,
and it's in the middle ofwinter, so the weathers usually
sucks and there's usuallylike 600 people or something.

mike rusch. (49:48):
Yeah.
It's almost like you planfor people not to show up.
I think this is the ra.
As I listen to you Yeah.
I think I'm

andy chasteen. (49:53):
onto you here.
It's, and the beau the beautifulpart of that, and I'm not trying
to like pressure people intothis, but even most people who
show up, they say, keep my $40.
Give it to Peddle it Forward.
I think Peddle it Forwardis one of the coolest
organizations in town.
They are.
They exist to put peopleon bikes that otherwise

(50:15):
couldn't have them.
And I think that issuch an insanely cool.
Yeah.
So I believe inwhat they're doing.
And so what we do is we give,there's no administrative fees.
Had, sometimes you'll get thoselittle secret administrative,
no, we give them every singledime that we keep from,
people donating, whatever.
And so I think it's usuallyin the realm of I dunno,

(50:35):
$15,000 or something like that.
That's crazy.
So anyways, that's a super funthat's a super fun weekend.
And then we have HazelValley rally after that,
which is a really hard dayout in the Ozark, national
Forest, which is super cool.
And and that one's really fun.
And then the, obviouslythe main event in, in
May is Rule of Three.
You like to call ita mountain bike race.

(50:57):
Shame on you.

mike rusch. (50:58):
You have yet to convince me otherwise,
although I did see anannouncement that you're gonna
add some more gravel to it.
Yeah.
So I feel like maybe that'san admission if it's too
much of a mountain bike race.

andy chasteen. (51:08):
Yeah.
But I, so every year wesend out a survey, right?
Yeah.
We ask people.
'cause.
I always like to say,obviously I own the event,
but I don't want it tofeel like I own the event.
I want everyone whocomes to feel like they
own a little piece.
And in order to feel like youown a little piece you should
feel like you have a say.
So we always do a survey and weask, how could we do it better?

(51:28):
What are things thatwe could do, whatever.
We had a bunch of peoplesay, this year, your
t-shirt sucked this year.
And I was like, dang it.
I thought that was the greatestshirt we have ever had.
What a terrible idea I had.
Apparently.
Terrible human being.
I know.
Yeah.
The shirt this year said thispast year, said I conquered
the rule of three and allI got was this lousy tee.
Yeah.
And apparently a bunchof people didn't like it.
They didn't likeit, so whatever.

(51:49):
Anyways, we won't do that again.
But so we had some feedback ontoo much trail things like that.
And so Lauren and I putour heads together and we
were like, we also asked ondistances and things like that.
And so we put our heads togetherand we came up with, a lot of
people wanted to see maybe alonger 50 miler or like even a
shorter distance for people whowanted to dip their toes into

(52:10):
the Rule of Three experience.
So we decided to come up.
I think what we're doing is likea 35 miler, a 60 miler, and 115
miler, and what that's gonnado is that's gonna allow us to
add a little bit more gravelto some, to these distances.
And most of that gravel's gonnabe in the front end so that
there's less bottlenecks in thesingle track, which, listen,

(52:31):
I want people to be able tohave the best experience they
have, and some people do getbottled up at the single track
and that I get gutted becauseI know I that really upsets me.
'Cause I really wantpeople to be able to like,
achieve their goals thatthey have for this event.
I could care less ifthey get on the podium.
I want people to havegoals and achieve them.
Even if it's just to finish.

(52:52):
But some people have timegoals and if you have a time
goal and you're sitting in thesingle track for five minutes
waiting on like a hundredpeople in front of you to get
in, you're not getting a clearshot at realizing your goals.
And so we're gonna try to,stick all that front end
gravel on the front end ofthe, on the, of the course.
So that it's much morespread out once you
hit that single track.

(53:12):
And then the 35 milerwill be really cool.
It'll be, we're gonna callit like rule of three light.
It'll have maybe twomiles of single track and
it'll be super mellow.

mike rusch. (53:20):
Oh, that's really nice of you to think that's
what you're gonna call it.
But we will be thejudge of this to Andy.

andy chasteen. (53:25):
And I think last year, this past year,
I would say that we probablydid have a little bit too.
I ride the courses and I alwayshave this sinister smile on
my face 'cause I'm like, oh,I've, oh, people are gonna
be so pissed at this spot.
At this spot they'regonna be so mad at me.
And I want that, right?
I want people to have anunforgettable day, even if
it's terrible in the moment.

(53:46):
We know this, you know this.
You've been on these rides.
I have.
I know.
So I've been on these rideswhere it's the most horrible
day, all day long, but it's theone I remember forever, right?
And so I get I get stuckin this rabbit hole of it's
gotta be the hardest ever.
Yeah.
It's gotta be the hardestever when in reality it
just needs to be hard.
Yeah.
Doesn't need to bethe hardest ever,

mike rusch. (54:05):
I don't know who the psychologist is, but
they always talk about thesedimensions of ourselves.
Like it's the things youknow about yourself and
that others know about you.
Yeah.
And then there's the thingsthat you know about yourself
that nobody else does.
And then there's things thateverybody knows about you, but
you don't know about yourself.
And I, we know this,Andy, oh my gosh.
We know that thisis at your heart.
No, I, in all seriousness in allthe events that you do are just

(54:27):
world class and they're amazing.
Community building, culturebuilding, accessible to people.
And I, if I could only dothose events in northwest
Arkansas that's a giftto the entire community.
And so really thankful foryou and Lauren and all the
work that you guys do to Yeah.
To bring those to life.
'cause it really mattersand it's really beautiful.

andy chasteen. (54:47):
We do love putting 'em on.
And and I do, I, listen,actually, let me rephrase that.
I don't like putting 'em on.
I just lied to you.
Yeah.
I don't like putting 'em on.
But you know what, I do love?
I love the results of them andthe results after the event
makes it all worth it if I'mbeing honest, because I love
seeing those smiling faces.
Listen, I've been flipped offat the finish line, but later

(55:10):
those people come back andsay, that was the best day.
Yeah.
They just didn't thinkso in the moment.
Yeah.
Oh my goodness gracious.
We could talkabout that forever.
We love it.
Yeah.
Andy, give us a word tofinish this conversation up.
Oh gosh.
How you Yeah.
I'm just thankful you let mespew out all of my anytime
pent up emotion today.

(55:30):
Anytime.
I don't, I talk about thesethings with, friends and
stuff at times, but I thinkmore people need to find
commonality in each other.
And if we could do that, Ithink we'll be all right.
I really do.
I think we'll be all right.
And thank you for letting mecome on here and thank you.
Literally steering thispodcast way off course
from the very beginning.

(55:50):
So thanks.

mike rusch. (55:51):
You did not, I think this is, this is what
we're here to talk about, right?
These are real things that arehappening in our community, and
I think we're looking for peoplewho can help us make sense of
it, but also help us process itand Yeah ask the hard questions
and challenge us to to become,to continue to become the
community that we want to be.
And I think you are acommunity builder and
you are part of that.

(56:12):
And so I think your wisdomand just the energy that you
bring to it's a serious thing.
And so I think we, I think it'stime to take things seriously.
And so I'm, yeah.
I'm really thankful thatyou'd come in and be as
open as you have been aboutYeah.
The things that we need tothink about and to maybe
challenge us all to say.
That at the end of the daythis is about the human
being in front of you.

(56:33):
And I don't, again,I don't think we can
talk about that enough.
Yeah.
And

andy chasteen. (56:35):
I love this city and I love this state.
I love this country.
I really want to see us thrive.
I really do.
And again, I don't have theanswers, but I think there are
a few little things that we canall change to to make this steer
maybe in a better direction.
Thank you

mike rusch. (56:51):
Andy, you're welcome.
Anytime.
Thanks for comingand sitting with me.
And

andy chasteen. (56:54):
thanks dude.
Yeah.

mike ru (56:55):
Appreciate you so much.
Well, my incredible thanks toAndy for joining me again and
continuing to challenge andinspire the cycling community
here in northwest Arkansas.
What we've heard in thisconversation is that
cycling is not just aboutbikes or trails or events.
It's about the people.
It's about who we are becomingas a community and whether

(57:15):
we will use cycling to drawlines between us or to build
bridges across those lines.
The fractures we see inour national dialogue
are not far away.
They are here, they're movingthrough our own neighborhood.
And yes, even through thecycling community, the
heart and soul of NorthwestArkansas is being tested.
Cycling and the arts havetransformed this region,
reshaping not just ourlandscape, but our identity.

(57:37):
Yet the deeper questionremains, will these movements
become commodified, reduced toevents, marketing, or tourism?
All of those are good, butwe would hope that they would
become instruments of belonging,places where we can practice
inclusion extend, welcome.
The All Bikes welcome muralshowed us just how high the
stakes are because it wasn'tonly a debate about paint on

(57:58):
the wall, it was about whetherour community has the courage
to live into those wordsthat everyone is welcome.
Andy reminded us thatbelonging requires more
than just our words.
It requires kindness,humility, and the willingness
to see each other first, asneighbors and fellow riders
before opponents, it requiresleadership that refuses to
mirror national polarization,and instead chooses to

(58:19):
model welcome and repairand a generosity of spirit.
It requires each of us,whether we are riding gravel
roads, city greenways, ormountain trails, to practice
this simple act of connectionto wave, to greet, and to
make space for one another.
So the invitation is beforeus, the cycling community
in northwest Arkansas hasalready changed the way

(58:39):
the world sees this region.
And now we must decide ifwe will also be a part of
helping to change the waythat we see one another.
If we will help heal dividesand strengthen relationships and
create a place where belongingis not simply a marketing
message, but a lived reality.
I wanna say thank you toAndy for your vision and your
leadership and your just brutalhonesty in this conversation.

(59:01):
I think it's somethingthat we all can take note
of and begin to practice.
And for everyone elsethat's listening, I wanna
say thank you for being themost important part of what
our community is becoming.
This is the overviewand exploration in the
shaping of our place.